The lonely side of business (and what to do about it) with Unni Turrettini

Episode Transcript
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Angie Colee (00:03):
Welcome to Permission to Kick Ass, the show
that gives you a virtual seatat the bar for the real
conversations that happenbetween entrepreneurs.
I'm interviewing all kinds ofbusiness owners, from those just
a few years into freelancing toCEOs helming nine-figure
companies.
If you've ever worried thateveryone else just seems to get
it and you're missing somethingor messing things up, this show

(00:24):
is for you.
I'm your host, Angie Coley, andlet's get to it.
Hey, welcome back to Permissionto Kick Ass.

Unni Turrettini (00:33):
With me today is my friend, Unni Turrettini
Say hi, hi, angie, thank you somuch for having me.

Oh, I'm so glad and I'm so glad to have you on the
show.
I really just enjoy beingaround your energy and I can
already anticipate this one'sgoing to be a good one.
I'm not jinxing it, I promise.

Oh, likewise I like being around you too, so
this is going to be like areally fun conversation.

Awesome.
Well, I love what you do, and Ithink that this is going to be
fascinating for people, becausehow many human connection
experts do you know?
I know one, and it's Ooni.
So please tell us a little bitmore about what you do.

Ooh yeah, you know it's.
And that is actually the reasonwhy I came to you, Like, how do
I talk about what I do in a waythat people get it right on my
website, on my social media,everywhere?
And, by the way, you're a rockstar, you helped me so much with
that, so thank you.
And, by the way, you're a rockstar, you helped me so much with

(01:27):
that, so thank you.
And so this is.
I kind of created that titlebecause I started studying
loneliness and human connectionback in 2012.
After this incident we had inNorway, where this young man, 32
year old, anders Breivik,killed 77 people in one day, and
I just had to understand howthat could happen.

(01:49):
So I studied him, I followedhis trial.
He survived, so he's in jailtoday and he so I studied other
similar, hundreds of othersimilar mass killers around the
world and what I realized isthat really the one thing that
stood out?
I mean, there were several signs, if you will, or common

(02:12):
characteristics that they had,no matter where in the world
they came from, but they wereall lonely.
They never, they never feltlike they belonged in our
society.
And that just hit me so hard,angie, because that's how I felt
a lot of the time growing upand even when I was working in
law and finance, in these bigfirms small firms didn't matter

(02:37):
I often didn't feel like I waspart of the group and that I
belonged and that I fit in.
And so or correction, Iactually did fit in, I just
didn't feel like I belonged.
And so that led me when I wasresearching and writing that
book, that my first book, theMystery of the Lone Wolf Killers

(02:58):
I started researchingloneliness, human connection,
what makes us lonely?
Us lonely, what?
What kind of connection are welooking?
And and really back then nobodywas talking about loneliness.
And as I was out speaking, alsoto promote my book when it came
out, I want I talk loneliness.
And nobody wanted to hear it,although I knew from the

(03:21):
audience.
Because people came up to meand, would you know, come up to
me after my talk and say, oh myGod, like you were speaking
right to me about yourloneliness, about this
disconnection, about feelingthat you're not part and not
belonging.
But the organizer of the eventsoften didn't want me to talk

(03:42):
about loneliness.
I said nobody wants to talkabout loneliness.
I said nobody wants to talkabout loneliness, so please
don't do that.
Well, now, we know that a lotof people want to talk about
loneliness, because we I meanthe US search general has
declared that it is, you know,the fastest growing epidemic in
the United States, and I wouldeven go as far as to say that it
is our current pandemic,because it's not only in the

(04:03):
United States, it's everywhere.
So that's what I do I work with,I speak, I write.
Now I'm writing a book about,specifically about loneliness
and human connection, and I am,I help individuals, leaders,
often high achievers, becausethat's what I like.
I'm a high achiever, so I workwell with high achievers.

(04:26):
And I also work with companies,helping them create a better
work culture, transforming theworkplace into a place of
community so that we can havemore engaged, happier employees
and also, for the companies,right Increased productivity.
That's what they care about.
So that's what I do.

That is awesome.
In short, yeah, I know and Ithought that was fascinating I
had written down about no onewanted to hear that, but then
you answered.
The question that I had was,like no one wants to hear it and
yet everybody is saying, oh mygosh, this is amazing.
You're speaking directly to meand, like, I have the pleasure
of knowing a little bit moreabout what you do in your
background, cause we've talkedabout this extensively.
But tell me a little bit moreabout your own connection with

(05:10):
being a high achiever and beingthat lonely person.
And then, of course, like I wantto preemptively say this, so
many people, when they hear astory like this, go oh, boo hoo.
You like really don't know realsuffering.
And also, on the permission tokick ass, show your problems are
real, your struggles are real.
This is not a freakingcompetition.
It's okay to be hurting.

(05:31):
You have to acknowledge whatyou're actually feeling in order
to get it to pass through youso that we can move on to the
next thing.
So none of that don't come fromme in the comments.
It's my freaking show.
There we go.
Anyway, tell us a little bitmore about your own past and
your experience with thisloneliness.
Well, first of, all.

I love what you just said and I think because I
do think we all have ourtraumas and pain and things that
we go through in life, and tostart comparing pain and
comparing traumas, that doesn'tmake any sense to me.
So I think it's all about, youknow, trying to, and that's what
I talk about too.
Connecting is about gettingover ourselves enough so that we

(06:11):
can actually see other peopleunderstand them, listen to what
they're going through andfinding the things that we
actually have in common, becausewe have more things in common
that we don't, and we tend toforget that in our very
polarized world.
So so thank you for forpointing that out and, yes, I
think part of the problem forpeople like me and for high

(06:33):
achievers, people who seeminglyhave it all, who seemingly have
perfect lives with great careers, you know, worked hard, you
hard, have the titles, like Ihave three law degrees and it's
not to brag, being a highachiever and being a
perfectionist.
It was my way of constantlyproving to the world, and mostly

(06:58):
to myself, that I was worthy oflove and connection.
That's why I have been strivingfor all these things collecting
degrees, collecting status,collecting titles, and and and
people and things and all thesethings, and I think that's very
typical of high achievers andsuccessful people.
And because we feel that wehave nothing to complain about.

(07:22):
We do not talk about ourdisconnection, we do not talk
about our loneliness, but it isas real for us as for anyone
else.
And there was a recent study,angie, here in Norway, where
they spoke with CEOs, topleadership, and they asked them
what are your top threestruggles?

(07:43):
And one of the one of thosewere loneliness, was loneliness,
and and we were, you know,people were so shocked how can
you be a CEO and be lonely?
Well, because it's lonely atthe top and you feel like you
have no one to talk to becauseno one, no one gets you, no one
gets that You're not allowed tohave problems when you are in

(08:06):
positions of power.
I would say, but we, we allknow we're just people, we're
all just people and we havestruggles.
And I think, and also,loneliness doesn't discriminate.
Loneliness hits people on, youknow on, on all the ranges of
social, you know social,wherever you are on the social

(08:32):
ladder, wherever you are in theworld, whatever color of skin,
it really doesn't matter.
Loneliness affects all of usand we know that in the United
States it's one out of two.
So it's, you know, more than160 million people dealing with
loneliness in the United Statesright now.
So so I think this is the timeto really come out and talk

(08:56):
about it and to share and not toand and.
For me, that took a long timebecause I felt so ashamed.
I felt like if I, with allthese people around me, can feel
that I'm lonely, it must meanthat I have failed at social
connection, because I'm notisolated.

(09:17):
I'm not like you know.
I'm not.
I have all these people aroundme, and loneliness today rarely
has anything to do with socialisolation.
It's an emotional isolation,it's feeling that you're not
part of it's.
It's that sense that, eventhough you have colleagues, you

(09:41):
have family, you have friendsand all of these people may be
great people, but the quality ofthe connection, the quality of
the interaction, is notfulfilling.

Oh, I hear you so much on that.
But in fact this is so timely,like not just because we've been
talking about this, but I wasactually on a mastermind call
yesterday, and once a month wedo a mindset call with a mindset
coach.
Shout out to Brian, shout outto Ron and yesterday we were
kind of talking about this ideaof worthiness and helped me

(10:15):
identify.
We're going to go deep here,deep into Angie's psyche, right?
So I have a brother who is 15years younger than me, so in my
teens I was basically likehelping raise the kids, get them
to school and stuff like that.
I have been a caregiver for aslong as I can remember and I can
see that manifesting in my ownbusiness, in this show, even in

(10:38):
the daily activities, in like,if I'm not actively caring and
doing for others, I don't feel alot of worthiness.
And then if shame gets added tothe equation and we're not
talking about this, like Iactually brought up on the call,
I am afraid to say this infront of my professional
colleagues because I worry aboutthe things that they'll say,

(10:58):
the things that they'll thinkabout me.
But I decided I need to saythis because it's what's on my
heart.
It's what's on my mind.
I don't care if they think thatI'm crazy.
If they think that I'm crazy orif they're judging me for
thinking and feeling this way,okay, fair enough.
We've all got our own issues todeal with.
Not everybody can likeeverybody all the time, it's

(11:18):
okay.
But if I am refusing to ownwhat is happening in my life and
the thoughts that are goingthrough my head and with the
caveat of I've done a lot ofwork to separate thoughts and
feelings and understand thatfeelings are fleeting and they
are not the truth, but they areindicators of stuff that we need
to look at and work on and carefor, right.

(11:39):
But if I can't share that stuff, especially with people that I
have these relationships with,for fear that I'm going to be
judged, oh my gosh, the painthat you're in suffering in
silence and alone, for fear ofthat judgment just breaks my
heart, amen.

And you know that is a huge part of our
loneliness pandemic is that we,in order to feel connected, we
actually have to risk rejection.
We have to show up, being seenfor who we truly are, even if
people judge us, even if peoplewill reject us.
Because if we don't, if we justchange ourselves to fit in,

(12:20):
like I did for so many years,then we will never feel seen,
heard and valued.
Because how can people see uswhen we're not showing them who
we are?
And then we do that enough andrepeat that enough for over
years.
We don't even know who we areanymore, and that's when we have
really disconnected fromourselves and lost ourselves.
And then you know, then that'sa long journey back, like it was

(12:45):
for me.
So yeah, that's a good point.

That was something that I found fascinating in our
work together, right, because wetalked a lot about
disconnection and on the surfacelevel, I totally understood it.
Like we're.
We're disconnected from eachother, especially in this age of
like hyper connection almostwe're online, we're on our
phones 24 seven.
We always know what somebodyelse is doing, even if we
haven't talked in like sixmonths, because they're posting

(13:09):
the highlight reel online, right, the highlight reel.
They're not posting the dailydirty stuff.
But but I think the thing thatshocked me the most when we were
talking about this was you saidthat's actually disconnection
from yourself.
I can't even remember what Ibrought up when I said what
about this topic?
But you said that's actuallydisconnection from yourself and

(13:30):
I went wait, what Like thatmakes sense and that doesn't
make sense, and I'm curious toknow more.
So can you speak a little bitmore about disconnection from
yourself?

Yeah, and especially in this world with
hybrid connection and socialmedia and media and this fear
mongering and spreading of fear,that we live in this kind of
society.
Most people are in fight orflight mode 70% of the time.

(14:09):
I would say a lot of people arein fight or flight mode a
hundred percent of the time,right, but even when we're
sleeping and that's why we wakeup in the morning and this
happens to me all the time Iwake up and I'm and I'm like,
and I'm tense, I'm tense, I'mstressed and I don't even feel
rested because that limbic partof the brain has been working
and constantly vigilant fordanger, scouting for danger,

(14:31):
even when I'm sleeping.
And so when we're in that state, what happens in fight or
flight and this is also socialmedia also can exaggerate that,
because when we look at otherpeople in their seemingly
perfect lives and we don't feelthat we have what they have,

(14:53):
that makes us feel like we'realone.
It makes us feel lonely.
And what happens in our brain,our prehistoric brain, is that
when we feel isolated, when wefeel lonely, our brain believes
that we are in danger, so itputs us into fight or flight.
And what happens is that thefrontal lobe part of the brain

(15:13):
is disconnected.
Big parts of our brain areactually disconnected, and only
the parts of the brain and thefunctions of our body that are
absolutely necessary for oursurvival Should we need to run
away from an energy, fight it orfreeze.
Those are the only functionsthat really that are, um, that

(15:36):
are, are, are functioning, andso our, our body is flooded with
these stress chemicals and youknow, and when we don't use them
because we're actually in fightor flight over something that
is not an external threat andwe're in that state where we're
not.
We were never meant to be inthat state Most of the day.

(15:57):
We were never meant to sustainthose chemicals over time, so
they start to tear us down fromthe inside.
So then we get sick, we getautoimmune issues, we get heart
failures, we get all sorts ofissues with our health, and also
because we have lost and thisis something that a lot of

(16:18):
people, and especially theseleaders and high achievers that
I work with, but of course ithappens to everyone in fight or
flight over time, is thatbecause you've lost contact with
the frontal lobe part of yourbrain, which is, by the way, the
CEO of your life.
This is the part that is thethinker, this is the one that
can like oh, let's look at thebigger perspective here.

(16:40):
Let's look at the 10-year planvision.
You know, let's see the bigthing here.
Let's look at the 10 year planvision.
You know, let's see the bigthing here.
That's not accessible to us.
So that's why we experiencebrain fog.
We think that we can't, wecan't reflect where, like, we
feel tired, we feel exhaustedbecause of these hormones in our

(17:00):
body, but also we can't thinkstraight, and so we focus even
harder and we work even harderto make it, to try and figure
out, to make decisions, but wecan't really make decisions in
that state, and so we struggleand we suffer and we and we make
ourselves sick and depressedand and that is disconnection.
So a lot of you know we thinkwe're maybe, you know,

(17:25):
disconnected from ourselves.
But what does it really mean?
Well, first of all, it meansbeing in survival mode, and so
the very first thing we need tolearn how to do is and this is
for everyone deactivate survivalmode as a daily practice and
multiple times per day, becausethe smallest thing can trigger

(17:46):
us right back in fight or flight, because what happens and we're
when we're so used to being infight or flight and scanning for
dangers and and gettingsuspicious of other people,
because that's what happens isthat the, the threat that you
are, that you are being thedanger out there can be your

(18:06):
mother in law, can be yourspouse, can be your coworker,
can be your boss, can be anyone,right, yep, anything like that
that.
You know, anyone disagreeingwith with our opinion can put us
right there in fight or flight,and so we need to learn how to
deactivate it, and that can behard in the beginning, but it is

(18:29):
a practice and for me now itonly takes me a couple of
minutes, and for me, I love justtaking some deep breaths, you
know, making sure that I'mgrounded with both feet in the
ground.
I usually take off my shoes.
I love like being barefoot andeven just going for a walk in
the forest or being by water,just taking myself and telling

(18:55):
myself.
Also, you know, there's theways.
You can just look at yourselfin the mirror and place one hand
on your heart and just repeatto yourself I'm safe, I'm okay,
I'm good.
You know, I'm right now, inthis moment, I'm okay, yeah.

I love that you made that distinction, because
that one was that one was a hardone for me to wrap my head
around and I can't remember whenexactly it clicked, but I know
that the when it came into focusfor me, it revolved around okay
, I'm feeling a lot of anxiety.
I'm stuck in that fight orflight mode.
I'm usually either living inthe future or the past, not

(19:32):
right now.
I'm worried about next month'srevenue and whether I'm going to
be able to make payroll or I'mgoing to have to let somebody go
.
I'm worrying about this thingthat I said in a meeting last
month and whether or not thatimpacted my prospects for this
month.
Like, those are both instancesof me being somewhere else, not
being right here right now, inthis moment.

(19:54):
And that's the power of like,no matter how dire your
situation is.
And, trust me, I've been insome dire situations.
I have lived out of my car.
I have lived out of thenastiest no-tell motel in
existence.
That's a story for another day,but I promise it's a good one
Again.
It's not a competition.

(20:15):
We've all been to really low,really terrible places.
That's just part of the humancondition, and some of us have
been there more often thanothers and that just it breaks
my heart.
But in this moment, if you arenot actively running from
somebody who is chasing you, ifyou are not actively like dying,
you are presumably sittingsomewhere where you are

(20:37):
reasonably safe.
So, like, take a moment, tapinto your senses.
What do you see and smell andtaste and hear?
Can you remind yourself?
It's not the future and it'snot the past, it's right now,
and right now I'm safe.
What can I do right now?
Or what can I do right nowcould just be, can I just be

(20:57):
here right now?
I'm fascinated with thatbalance between human being,
which is what we are.
We are human beings, butespecially in this capitalist
society, we are called to do somuch, so I have to.
I feel like I meditate on thata lot.
You're a human being, not ahuman doing.
Your worth is not tied up inwhat you do for others.
It's just who you are.

That's right, that's right.
And this and this, what you'resaying there, this human doing,
and you talked about being, youknow, worrying about the future
or running a program from thepast.
Right, because that's what wetend to do.
We think that our futuredepends on what we have done and
what we have accomplished inthe past.

(21:39):
So we just take that oldprogram and we place it on our
future and we just repeat andwe're never really present.
And even, I would say, even forsomeone who is in a dire
situation, because a lot ofpeople are, you know, with with
financial distress right now,interest rates, I mean, it's a,
it's a, it's a hard, you know,it's really hard right now for a

(22:04):
lot of people.
And so these trouble, theseissues are real, these problems
are real and, of course, it putsit puts you in a place of fight
or flight, and I, and and Iwould even encourage, even if
you have all the reasons in theworld to be in fight or flight,
to practice taking yourself outof it, because what happens is

(22:31):
what we know this from, fromfrom scientists, from science,
and and albert einstein he saidit, I don't know if he was the
first one to say it, but he saidthat we are energetic beings,
so we are mostly energy.
If you look at the atoms, atomsin our body, if you just
observe our body, you would seethat most of our body, 99.999%

(22:53):
of our body, is empty space.
So we think that we're denseentities, but we focus on
because that's what happens wefocus on our immediate, our body
, our physical body, inimmediate environment, to scan
for danger and to be able tokeep ourselves safe, and so then

(23:16):
we are actually focusing on the0.00001% of reality, and that
is a very, very limited reality.
So if we can take ourselves outof fight or flight, even for
just a moment, and access allthat other thing, that 99.9999%

(23:39):
of reality, that is wherepossibilities lie, that is where
opportunities appear, that iswhere the things that happens
that we cannot control.
It is the unknown, and that isa scary place, I agree, but it's
actually not as scary as takingyour past and repeating it in

(24:02):
your future.
For the you know, for the nonyou know unforeseeable future.
That is a much scarier for meanyway scenario than actually
trying to create something newand something better and the
beautiful part of being in that,in that present moment and in

(24:25):
that state of anything ispossible.
I have unlimited resources.
When we know that we are inthat place, that's when magic
happens and that's when thingssort themselves out right.
So it's just that we don'tbelieve in it because we can't

(24:48):
see it.

Yes, it hasn't been our experience.
Yeah exactly.

It hasn't been our experience yet.
So that is what what so manypeople and myself, including,
practice every morning inmeditation, for example.
A great way to do that ismeditation, and someone who's
really good at explaining thisand teaching this is Dr Joe
Dispenza, and he has multiplefree videos online.

(25:19):
Just Google it on YouTube, JoeDispenza, and there's so many
meditations.
They're free meditations forpeople to use, and I would
encourage everyone to just dolike a 10, 15 meditation every
morning to get yourself in aspace where you are not in fight
or flight.

Yes, I love that too, cause I think that that's
double duty right.
That's bringing you back to thepresent and also, if there's
anything that I've learned overthis self-improvement journey,
that is entrepreneurship.
It's what you focus on, youfind right, and so if you focus
on I'm struggling with money,you're going to find more money
struggles.

(26:00):
If you focus on you know moneycomes to me fairly easily and
best when I'm having fun, that'sgoing to be your reality.
If you focus on most clientsare jerks and they're trying to
take advantage and get free work, you're going to be
unconsciously ignoring everybodythat's a good client and going

(26:20):
after the people that fit yourreality.
You are training your brainwith your beliefs and the
interesting thing about this tome you know as somebody who's
done a lot of work to move froma more negative outset to a more
positive one is that you can'tshame your way into this new way
of thinking.
Like shame is not a superpower,it's a, it's kryptonite.

(26:40):
It will cripple you, it willprevent you from getting where
you want to go.
It'll keep you playing small.
You're playing not to like I'vetalked about this before but
like this concept of playing notto lose versus playing to win,
playing not to lose is verydefensive.
It's I've got these very thislittle small set of assets and
I'm going to protect it with allmy might, whereas playing to

(27:01):
win is like I'm going to takethis risk and I'm going to go
out there and I'm going to gofor everything.
Right, you can't do both at thesame time, and this is where,
like to me, it's interesting.
Another thing that came up whenyou were talking about was like
I had a viral story that wentout not too long ago and it was
really interesting to me howmuch like attempting shaming

(27:24):
there was in the comments.
How much like attemptingshaming there was in the
comments.
So a brief overview of thestory was that I had a breakup
in 2020.
And in the aftermath, I choseto travel and get to know more
about myself and more about thecountry.
Right, but in the first, it wasa four part video series for
Huffington Post.
In the first one, I had to setup the fact that, like
everything had been going welland he and I had been talking

(27:47):
about our plans and we were inthe process of buying a house,
and then he bought it behind myback and told me he didn't love
me.
So I have to set up thiscontext as to like why I made
such a drastic life change.
And oh man, does the Internethave opinions when you put a
less than minute long video outthere telling people your story?
And I just thought that was.

(28:08):
I don't know necessarily whereI was going with that, but I
feel like it's.
We've become such an outrageculture, such a polarized
culture, and we somehow thinkthat we're pointing out
something that people don't knowwhen we attempt to shame them
into something.
And it's like do you think Ihaven't beaten myself up a
thousand times over this?
I'm over it, I'm done with that.

(28:28):
I'm not.
That's why I'm sharing thestory publicly and you can have
whatever the hell opinion youwant to about me.
I don't care.
This is for specific people whoare going to see some sort of
hope and joy and that the factthat you can be devastated by
something that you didn't expectand then turn it around and
take control again, instead ofletting that ruin or wreck your

(28:49):
life.

No, I.
What comes to me when you saythat and this is this is so
important.
What you're bringing up is thatwe are trying to change our
behavior by shaming ourselves,and that we know that and, as
you said, it doesn't work.
So when we are, when we want tochange to a more positive
mindset and we want to, you know, look at what loneliness is.

(29:11):
Loneliness is the, the, thebelief that I'm not worthy of
love and connection.
That's what loneliness is andthat's why, actually, what we're
, what we're seeing in our worldtoday, is not a loneliness
pandemic, it's a unworthinesspandemic.
So we need to build ourself-worth and the way to start

(29:35):
that is when it comes toconnection and belonging and
loneliness is to change reallyanything that you want, to
change a belief.
It's not enough to change thewords, you actually have to feel
it.
So what I do in my morningpractice is that I decide who do

(29:55):
I want to be today, and then Iactually write it down before my
meditation.
I do a little prep before mymeditation.
I write down.
Sometimes I write if it helpsme.
I write how am I feeling?
Like what is the icky, yuckyfeeling that I'm actually
feeling?
And I write that down and thenI write how do I want to feel,

(30:17):
for example, when it comes tobelonging is one of the things
that I've changed for myself isto and I and I repeat this to
myself and I feel it is that Idecide every morning that every
single room I'm walking intotoday, I belong in that room,

(30:38):
right and when, and I, as Ienter a room, and, and and this
is I think this is somethingeveryone should do because we
walk into rooms and then we feelinsecure and we think people
are judging us and maybe, maybethey are, and most probably
they're not, because everyone isso concerned about themselves
that they're really not thinkingabout you.

(30:58):
So if you walk into a roomknowing that you belong there,
how do you feel when you knowyou belong in a room?
You feel really good, right,you feel confident, you have a
certain energy around you,you're magnetic, you come in
there.
People want to be around youbecause it feels really good to

(31:20):
be around you, because not a lotof people are magnetic, so we
want to be around those peoplewho feel good to be around.
So when you know that youbelong, you know that you are
worthy of love and connectionand you can just see yourself,
and you can visualize it,walking into a room and everyone

(31:43):
turns their head and peoplecome up to you.
They want to talk to you, theywant to get to know you, they
want you to oh, come sit here.
There's a free spot here.
You can sit right here.
Come sit with us.
Just when you feel that feeling,just talking about it, I can
feel it.
That's how we change a belief,that's how we change our state.

(32:05):
We change it by feeling thatway.
It's not enough to say it, soyou feel it and then you say it,
and then I meditate on it andin my meditation I amplify that
feeling.
And then, whenever during my day, I forget and I feel I walk
into, like for like I, I, Ispeak on stages, right, I, I, or

(32:27):
I work at a company, and then I, sometimes I get insecure and
especially before, I used to getreally like scared and think
that, oh, these people are sosmart and they're so
accomplished, like, who am I totalk to these people, right?
And then when I can feel, and Iprep myself to feel that I

(32:49):
belong in that room and that Iactually have something to bring
to the table, and I see thesepeople are actually being
interested.
They lean in.
Why?
Because I share a story, maybethat they can relate to.
You know something that createsconnection, right, but anyway,
I feel that feeling that Ibelong and I know it and I prep

(33:11):
myself for it.
That's when everything changesand that's just one example.
You can use this for anything,but that's really big when it
comes to belonging.

I love that and it ties into, I think, some recent
discussions that I've had insuch a beautiful way.
One like it circles back towhat we talked about earlier.
You focus, what you focus on,you find right.
You are focused on finding thebelonging, finding that power
right, Finding that connection,and that's exactly what happens.
We've seen studies about or Ican't remember, but I know I've

(33:44):
read about this multiple timeswith top athletes who visualize
themselves making the gamewinning, shot in the final
seconds, when the pressure's onand the crowd is like insane.
Right, If they imaginethemselves choking in the final
seconds, what do you think isgoing to happen?
Right?
And then, like this energy wetalked about the energy and the

(34:07):
connection.
What if?
Even if you don't feel your mostbest, most confident, you're
exactly where you need to be,because you don't actually have
to be perfect to impress people,to connect with people, to
share a message, to changesomeone's life.
You could be living yourperfectly imperfect life, making

(34:29):
all of the mistakes, andinspire somebody who will never,
ever tell you what you did forthem, and so I feel like that's
a constant reminder that I haveto have for myself.
Right, Because I do want tobuild a million dollar business
and I want to travel the worldand I've got all these lofty,
ambitious goals and it's reallyeasy to get caught up in all the
ways that I'm falling short ofwhat I want to be, especially on

(34:52):
down days.
Or, like you know, I actuallyhad one month where everybody,
every single client I workedwith, had a payment emergency
that month and it was like whoopanic time, Right, Um, but I
don't.
You've you've got to rememberthat perfection is an image.
It's not accurate.

(35:12):
You don't know what's going onin somebody's inner worlds.
I've been privy to moreconversations than you know
where somebody was up on stagegiving the polished, perfect,
perfect speech, impressing thehell out of everybody in the
audience and their life wasfalling apart behind the scenes
with like lawsuits and divorcesand all kinds of painful stuff,
so Absolutely.

And back to what you said about you know
getting, you know hatefulcomments and these trolls, and I
think for us, for entrepreneurs, for business owners, for
anyone, anyone, when you putyourself out there, try you know
, because that's the opposite offitting in.

(35:54):
That's you putting yourself outthere in order to connect with
an audience, with a person, witha group, whatever, and it's
there is that risk that you'regonna get rejected.
There is that risk thatsomebody's not gonna like you,
but we have to do it anyway.
We have to put ourselves outthere anyway and I think that's

(36:17):
really beautiful that you did.
That was a vulnerable storythat you shared and, look, it
went viral.
You did so well.
You got so many peopleresonating with that story and,
yeah, some people didn't.
Some people who were in, by theway, in survival mode,
disconnected from their ownselves, you know, poured their

(36:38):
hatred onto you.
By the way, it has nothing todo with you, it's all about them
, right, but it's it's.
I think we have to.
Just, it's our job not to reactto that but to keep putting
ourselves out there anyway,because we're not supposed to be
friends and good friends witheverybody on this planet.
We, the way that we, we, wefind our tribe when we put

(37:03):
ourselves out there and therewill be people who seek you out
because you shared that and theywant to be in your inner circle
, they want to be friends withyou, they want to work with you.
So we have to keep doing it.

Yeah, and you said I think the word choice was
perfect.
There we're talking aboutfitting in versus belonging.
Those are two drasticallydifferent things.
Fitting in requires you toshrink yourself, put yourself
into a box made of somebodyelse's expectations, change
everything about you and who youare innately.

(37:38):
That makes you special andwonderful and unique.
I've said it before on the show.
But if you zoom out, if weforget ourselves for a second
and think about everything overthe last several billion years
that had to line up justperfectly for Uni and I to be
talking right now, anythingcould have changed.

(37:59):
The introduction that we had totalk together could not have
happened.
I could not have beenintroduced to her.
There's a million things thatcould have prevented this thing
from happening.
And yet here we are having, inmy opinion, quite a miraculous
conversation.
So why would you shrink that?
Why would you hide that?
Why would you allow somebodyelse to make you feel small?

(38:21):
And I get that if you haven'tbuilt up that resilience muscle
right, that inner faith muscle,that it's hard to stand up and
believe that there's somethingspecial about you.
But I promise it's there.
You're different from everyother human being on the earth,
even though you have a lot ofsimilarities and a lot of
commonalities.
Right Contrast that withbelonging where you get to be.

(38:43):
I get to be that headbangingnerd with the bright hair and
the piercings who shows up at abusiness event and has something
to contribute, even though I'mnot wearing a suit.
I belong but I definitely don'tfit in, and that's fine by me.
I don't care about that.

That's right.
And I think there's anotheraspect of this, this, this
giving of your, giving ofyourself.
Really, that's what it is.
When you, when you show up asyou, authentically, you give of
yourself, you contribute,because your voice matters and
is important, even if we thinkit's not, even if we are made to

(39:23):
believe that, oh, I don'tmatter.
You know, who do you think youare?
That little voice I have, Ihave that voice telling me who
do you think you are?
A lot, and I had just have toshove it.
I just have to tell it.
Listen, I hear you, but you'renot driving this car.
I'm putting you in the backseatand I'm driving Right and um,
because it's there always andit's never, probably never,

(39:44):
going to go away, and that'sfine, I have accepted it.
But I'm not letting it run theshow and I'm going to show up
anyway because that's mycommitment to myself and that is
also a really effective way outof loneliness, is contributing,
is giving of yourself, and thiscan happen in so many ways,

(40:05):
right?
But even at a business meeting,speaking up at your team meeting
, if you're someone that you'reshy and you're afraid to speak
up, they need your opinion, theyneed you.
Everybody needs, like the worldis desperate for what you have
to offer.
So we need to speak up more.
That's how you contribute.

(40:26):
If you want to write a book,write that book.
If you want to publish thatarticle on Medium or wherever
hit publish, like you know, hitreturn.
And because that's when we giveof ourselves, when we
contribute, it makes us feellike we matter, it makes us feel

(40:48):
valuable and that is part ofthat whole feeling connected
piece of the puzzle as well.
And a great way to help peoplecontribute more and to
contribute ourselves is to askfor help.
Help people contribute more andto contribute ourselves is to
ask for help, and a lot of us inour society we're told that we

(41:09):
need to be so independent oh, Ican do it on my own, I don't
need anyone, right?
But?
And so we don't ask people forhelp.
But I like to remind peoplethat when you ask someone for
help, you're actually givingthem a gift, because you're
giving them the gift of feelingseen, heard and valued.
So we need to turn that around.

(41:29):
It's not shameful to ask forhelp.
It's actually a really, reallybeautiful thing to do.

That was, oh God, that was such an eye opener for
me because I'm from the SouthernUnited States.
I'm from the Southern UnitedStates.
I have what I jokingly like tocall Southern Woman Syndrome.
Like you know, you have a placeand you're being too loud and
you're standing out too much andyou definitely don't ask for
help.
That would be no, notacceptable.
But I remember once recognizingthe disconnect.

(41:57):
I love helping people.
I love giving people gifts andseeing them light up people.
I love giving people gifts andseeing them light up.
What am I doing to somebodylike me when I deny them?
Like, oh, I don't need thathelp.
I know that you offered, Idon't need that.
Oh, I know Well, don't go outof your way and give me that
gift.
I don't want to.
I just like dimmed the lightand the shine in that person who

(42:22):
wanted so badly to give mesomething because I had too much
pride to accept, like a littlebit too much ego or or the lack
of worthiness and I didn't thinkI was worthy of that gift,
right?
Like talk about vulnerabilityand opening yourself up to help,
opening yourself up to a giftand allowing another person,
exactly like you said, to beseen, heard and understood, and

(42:43):
allowing yourself to be seen,heard and understood, and
allowing yourself to be seen,heard and understood Beautiful.

Yeah, yeah.
And we forget that, right Inour world, that we're supposed
to, we're supposed to be soindependent and so strong and
make it on our own.
You know, we're not, we're notmeant to, we're not supposed to.

We're absolutely not.
One of my friends put it abeautiful way and I don't have
the drawing, but maybe I'll tryand show it with my hands.
I can't remember if I've talkedabout it on the show before,
but a lot of times when we'restruggling, this is the size of
our problems, right, my littlefist that I'm holding up, and
this is the size of our life.
So our problems are up almostthe entirety of our life, right,

(43:27):
and most people think I'm goingto shrink this problem somehow
so that I can survive.
Notice, I can't shrink this.
It's not going anywhere, right?
But what I can do is increasemy life so that these problems
aren't as big in comparison towhat else I've got going on in
my life.
And that's, you know, I like togive.
When I'm feeling like I'm thecenter of the universe and my
problems are the most desperateproblems that we all go through,

(43:50):
that, right, and they sometimesthey're legit.
I've been in abusive situationthat I had to get out of.
I've been in inlife-threatening situations I've
had to get out of.
So these are definitely notminimizing it.
But when I'm not in a dangeroussituation and I feel like my
problems are bigger than theentire world.
I remind myself, oh okay, I'vebecome the center of the
universe.

(44:11):
Maybe it's time to go out.
And then I'll volunteer or I'llcall somebody and ask them out
for a coffee date and likeremind myself that the world is
bigger than me and my problems.

I love that.
That's a beautiful thing thatyou showed there with the, with
the, how we can expand our lifeRight and and back to in
survival mode.
There's no expansion.
We actually have to getourselves out of survival mode
so that we can connect with whowe truly are and and you know

(44:43):
this this something bigger,because there is something
bigger than us, and I believethat we are supported and we are
one.
I believe that, and the more andand and just even for the sake
of of how that makes me feelwhen I think that I believe it,

(45:05):
because that makes me feel moreexpansive and that makes me feel
more connected to other peopleand that makes me feel that that
, what little me, what I do,matters, it absolutely does.
And I think that we forget howpowerful we are.
We just forget, we think thatour lives are just like oh, it's

(45:30):
the government is decidingleadership, whatever my boss,
you know everyone else isdeciding for me.
I'm helpless, I can't doanything about it, but there's
so much we can do.
We are powerful and let's notforget that leadership, our
leadership, they're only therebecause we put them there.

(45:51):
If we gather together and wecome together as a people, we
can remove them and have someoneelse elected.

Oh, yes, we can do that this reminds me of I don't
know if you've ever read thisstory Man's Search for Meaning.

Yeah.

Oh, that's such a beautiful story.
If you've never read it, Ihighly encourage it.
It's a quick read, it's a veryshort book, but it's so powerful
and impactful.
What it is is a story from aHolocaust survivor, and the main
takeaway that I get from thisis that nobody can force you to
do anything, even when you feeltotally powerless.
I mean, this is a person thatwas arguably subjected to some

(46:30):
of the worst mistreatment onearth and still found moments of
joy, moments of connection,moments of hope Right, and so
I'm like.
I often tell people that I workwith a gun to the head.
Nobody can tell you that youdon't get to have joy, that you
don't get to have meaning, thatyou don't get to have something,

(46:50):
or that you must do something.
You can always decide.

I'm not going to do that always, and Victor
Frankl, the author of that book.
What's one of the biggesttakeaways that I have from from
that book and from um also, I?
I I'm a follower, or also alsoof of of Dr Ben Benjamin Hardy,
hardy Ben Hardy, sorry and hetalks about this in connection

(47:18):
with Viktor Frankl and that theway that you know he talks about
hope right In the in that bookhaving hope for a better future,
meaning that what you'reactually doing and this is this
is valid for for all of us toois that we can have a hope of a

(47:38):
better future for ourselves andwe can actually decide.
And that's what.
That's what I meant when I saidthat we are so much more
powerful than we think we arebecause we can actually decide.
I can sit in my journal in themorning and I can write down a
more beautiful story for myselfand my kids in the, you know, 10

(47:59):
years from now, five years fromnow, two years from now, and
and when I connect with thatgoal, when I connect with that
and I operate from that goal,meaning I become that person, I
become my future self, becausemy future self has resources and

(48:19):
a strategy that my present selfdoesn't know about yet Yep.
So that is also the way that westart feeling like her, under

(48:43):
these dire, dire, tragiccircumstances where there was
really no hope.
And he said that in the book hewrote that that all his friends
and the people around him thatlost hope, they all died, but
the ones that kept hope, thatknew deep, deep in their heart.

(49:06):
There is an end to this andthere is a more beautiful story
for me in my life.
And what am I going to do when,five years from now, when I'm
in that other situation, he wasplanning on the next book he was
going to write.
He was planning all thesethings like the book, promotion
of it?
You know, he was planning allthese things while he was in

(49:26):
prison and I think that's such abeautiful thing.
And similarly, with NelsonMandela in prison on I believe
it was Robben Island, rightoutside of Cape Town in South
Africa, when you know also themost inhumane circumstances you
know torture for two decadesalmost he was in there.

(49:49):
And when he I read that when he, when he was put in prison, he
was a young man, you know, apolitical activist, and he was
arrogant, he was smart, hethought he was smarter than
anyone.
He was arrogant, and prisonshaped him into being becoming
the leader that he became, wherehe forgave everyone that hurt

(50:13):
him, and, and, and all theseother people.
And so you can, you can, we can, we can.
Let our challenges and ourdifficult situations shape us
and decide who we become, or wecan allow them to as an
opportunity to become who wewant to become.

I feel like that's the perfect note to end on,
because I want to ask like 20more questions and make this a
five hour show, but I know thatwe're coming up on time.
So thank you so much for beingon the show.
You have been a fantastic guest.
Please tell us more where wecan learn about you and your
work.

First of all, thank you so much for having me,
angie.
I could talk for hours with you.
You know that.
So I am on all social mediaLinkedIn, instagram, facebook.
I'm not so active on Twitter,so mainly Instagram, facebook
and LinkedIn.
And if you google my name, uniTuratini, that's U-N-N-I and

(51:11):
then T-U-R-R-E-T-T-I-N-I.
You find me because I'm theonly one with my name, and I
also have some free downloads ifyou struggle with connecting
with yourselves.
So I have that.
I have also another download tohelp connecting with other
people and for companies, I havea download as well to help to

(51:37):
create more coherent teams.
I'd love to connect.

Awesome.
Thank you so much.
I'll make sure that there areclickable links in the show
notes.
And man, I appreciate you.
Thank you for sharing this withus today.

Thank you, Angie.

That's all for now.
If you want to keep thatkick-ass energy high, please
take a minute to share thisepisode with someone that might
need a high-octane dose of youCan Do it.
Don't forget to rate, reviewand subscribe to the Permission
to Kick Ass podcast on ApplePodcasts, spotify and wherever
you stream your podcasts.
I'm your host, angie Coley, andI'm here rooting for you.
Thanks for listening and let'sgo kick some ass.

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