September 4, 2024 • 48 mins
If I could sum this episode up, I'd tell you to let go of expectations and embrace experimentation. Fortunately, this episode with the incredible Cara Steinmann cannot be easily compartmentalized. Join us for an ADHD rabbit hole about energy management, recreating a job you hate (cleverly disguised as your business), trying to be what people expect, and more. If you've ever struggled with finding yourself or your "thing" in business, this one's for you.
Can't-Miss Moments:
- Starting off strong with a good ol' fashioned Angie rant: YOU ARE NOT YOUR MONEY. YOU ARE NOT WHAT YOU CAN DO FOR PEOPLE. You are worthy and awesome because you ARE, not because you DO.
- Cara's "oh shit" moment that led her to burn down her business and start from scratch at 40 (and how to recognize if you're on the same path)...
- One of my favorite show quotes ever comes courtesy of Cara: “Maybe I can just do whatever the fuck I want on those days…”
- Choosing between rest and the to-do list: how Cara and I discovered our non-negotiables and developed the confidence to stick to them (even when it might disappoint clients and customers)...
- What I did when I discovered a competitor had basically the exact same offer to the one I'd been secretly building for almost a year (my reaction might surprise you)...
Cara's bio:
Cara Steinmann helps women entrepreneurs build relationships that lead to more collaboration, visibility, and fun. Founder of the Ravel Collective and host of the Ravel Radio podcast, Cara inspires women to forge meaningful connections that positively impact their personal and professional lives.
She believes the collective power of women is the key to dismantling systems of oppression and has made it her mission to remove the obstacles that keep women separate, so they can build more wealth and amplify their impact together.
Resources and links:
Let's collab:
Let's connect:
If you dig the show and want to help bring more episodes to the world, consider buying a coffee for the production team!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Angie Colee (00:03):
Welcome to Permission to Kick Ass, the show
that gives you a virtual seatat the bar for the real
conversations that happenbetween entrepreneurs.
I'm interviewing all kinds ofbusiness owners, from those just
a few years into freelancing toCEOs helming nine-figure
companies.
If you've ever worried thateveryone else just seems to get
it and you're missing somethingor messing things up, this show
(00:24):
is for you.
I'm your host, angie Coley, andlet's get to it and welcome
back to Permission to Kick Ass.
With me today is my new friend,kara Steinman.
Say hi, hi, thanks for havingme.
Oh, I'm excited for this one.
(00:44):
We were just getting intotalking a little bit too much
before the show.
I almost forgot to hit record.
But anyway, before I go off therails, tell us a little bit
about what you do.
Cara Steinmann (00:51):
All right.
So I'm Kara Steinman.
I'm a Gallup certifiedstrengths coach and I do women's
leadership coaching forentrepreneurs, and I have an
online community called Raveland that is a networking
community for womenentrepreneurs.
Everything I do is around womenentrepreneurs.
In case you're not catchingthat, it's a little bit of an
obsession of mine helping womenget into the business.
(01:13):
They love build the business,they love build community around
the business.
They love Cause we can't do italone.
Even though society would likeus to think that we should,
we're not.
We're not doing that here.
So, yeah, so, and I have, Ihost a couple of masterminds.
And then recently, this lastyear, this earlier this year, I
(01:34):
hosted my first mastermindretreat, which was amazing, and
I'm planning another one inSedona for the fall.
So that's kind of what I'm upto.
Angie Colee (01:38):
Ooh, that's awesome .
I have so many questions.
First, I wanted to know I tookGallup last year, Like that was
my first assessment with thatWhat'd you think?
I was surprised, but notsurprised.
What is the activator?
And strategic or strategy weremy top two, and then when I read
the definitions of those I went, oh yeah, that makes a whole
(02:00):
lot of sense.
Cara Steinmann (02:01):
That tracks?
Yeah, I have those in my topfive too.
I was doing CliftonStrengthswas one of the assessments that
I did.
I'd done it years ago for somejob but I don't even know if I
ever saw the results.
It was like the boss justwanted to see what I was all
about or something.
But when I did it for myselfand I was looking at the results
, it was kind of a game changerbecause I could see on on paper
that I had zero of my top 10strengths in executing.
(02:23):
So I'm very much big, butthat's not really helpful when
you are built like you're you're.
You grow up thinking you'resupposed to produce and you're
supposed to, you're supposed todo things a certain way.
And it was always so hard forme working for other people and
producing like repetitive thingsand anyway, I digress.
Cliftonstrengths was a huge,huge game changer for me, just
(02:44):
seeing that on paper and beinglike, oh, I'm not built like
that, okay.
Angie Colee (02:48):
Yeah, no, I don't think that that's digress at all
, like a digressing what is thatword?
Digression, digressing,whatever?
Yeah, I don't know, you knowwhat I mean.
It was not a diversionwhatsoever, because I feel like
this is happening a lot in thelast couple of weeks and I even
wrote a post about it recently.
Like you are not the money inthe bank, you are not what you
(03:09):
can produce and what you can dofor other people, and I'm
getting sick and fucking tiredof all of us tying our
self-worth, our self-image, tolike how much we can do, how
much we can achieve.
You deserve love, you deservecomfort, you deserve happiness
and whatever your definition ofsuccess is by merit, of being a
(03:33):
human on planet earth Like youexist and that's enough and I
know that that's easier saidthan done to find the people
that love you and respect youfor who you are and see you on
your down days.
But like you're not yourfucking money, you're not, you
know what the trick is with thattoo.
Cara Steinmann (03:49):
The trickiest part with that is letting
yourself be seen, and I you knowfrom personal experience tried
to hide my own, like probablyauthentic self for a long, long
time.
Growing up.
I'm a neurodivergent.
I didn't know that until I was44.
No, not 44.
I was 41 when I officially gotlike diagnosed.
They were like and thank you,tiktok.
We were talking about TikTokoffline.
(04:10):
I was seeing all these postsonline Like do you do this?
You might not be an asshole,you might be ADHD.
And I remember thinking, oh myGod, I have been like thinking I
was an asshole for all theseyears, like why can't I stop
doing this?
Why can't I stop doing that?
Just be more this way, just bemore that way.
And then come to find out mybrain just works a little bit
differently and if I roll withit, life is so much easier.
(04:33):
Yes, it's crazy.
Angie Colee (04:35):
Yes, I love that too.
I had made jokes for years andyears and years about being a
little ADHD but, like I neverreally took it seriously.
And then I grew up in an areawhere it's I don't know it seems
passe almost to like judgeother people for whatever right
I've made the joke on the showbefore.
I grew up thinking thatmeditation was hippy, dippy
(04:57):
bullshit, because I'm from Texasand that's what we say about
things right, and I thought thatADHD was just another like fad
diagnosis until same thing asyou I started talking to people
with it.
I had developed all these toolsfor years that I didn't realize
was a coping and a maskingmechanism, like I've shown
people.
Anybody that's watching thevideo get to see this.
(05:17):
Check out my favorite littletool here, this little hexagon
timer.
Cara Steinmann (05:22):
What is that?
Angie Colee (05:22):
Oh, it's a timer, because I can just rotate it and
the timer is set Right, andthat's cool.
It doesn't sound like a bigdeal, until you realize that my
brain is the type that if I justtried to set a timer on my
phone or like by opening upGoogle as a timer, well then
I've just lost three or fourhours.
I'm so easily distractible.
(05:43):
So the ability to set a timer byjust rotating this device saves
me so much time and keeps memore focused.
But anyway, like talk about anADHD tangent, Like once my tools
stopped working all at the sametime a couple years ago.
That was when I started reallygoing okay, maybe, maybe it's
time to stop joking about thisand take this seriously.
(06:05):
Maybe it's time to seek out andsee if this is something that
I'm struggling with.
And now I love that we'rehaving this conversation more
and more because, I mean, I amnot a scientist, I'm not a
medical professional, butAngie's opinion on the matter of
ADHD is that this is not goingto be in the diagnostic manuals
in the future.
(06:25):
Like, we're just going torealize eventually that some
people have a brain wired thisway and some people have a brain
wired this way and that's whatmakes society work.
Cara Steinmann (06:34):
And it's interesting if you look at it in
terms of like personality testsand stuff my back my degrees in
psychology and I've beenobsessed with human behavior
like my whole life, maybebecause I felt different on some
level and I just didn't really.
I really wanted to understandwhy people were doing the things
that they were doing, cause itmaybe it didn't seem like I
would do it that way orsomething, but anyway.
So if you start looking at allof the assessments, like the
(06:55):
strengths, clifton strengths andthe disc assessment and even
Myers-Briggs like Myers-Briggswas one of the tests I took
several years ago when I waskind of melting down from
building a business that I endedup hating and I was like what's
wrong with me?
I have this business, it makesmoney, I'm supposed to be happy.
Like I thought working forother people was what was making
me depressed and miserable andanxious.
(07:16):
And now I'm still feeling thatway working for myself and I was
like something is definitelywrong with me and I basically
like kind of burned it all downand was like I have to start
from scratch and I don't knowwho I am or what I'm good at.
Like I'm 40 and I'm lost.
I don't even know who I am, andso so I bent back to the basics
and I was like what can I provehere?
What do I?
So I take all the tests rightand I started noticing these
(07:36):
little trends, like inMyers-Briggs.
It said something about how Ilove to gather information and
go really deep in a topic andthen I forget all about it Cause
I don't care, I don't need toknow anymore, I'm done.
And that, like that's.
My husband's called me laserbeam for years, like not in a
not he's a kind man, but not ina kind way Like he.
It's been an annoying thing tohim because I will pick up
(07:57):
hobbies or do things like reallyintensely for a while and then
just totally burn out on themwhile and then just totally burn
out on them.
And I remember seeing that inmy personality, like written
down as part of me and andhaving it framed in a different
way, and I was like, oh my God,that's just part of my
personality, I'm not just beinga jerk, that's just part of my
personality.
(08:17):
And if you look in all of thedifferent parts of people's
personalities on disc and thenthe different strengths, you can
kind of see how, like thosethings taken a little too far.
Any strength taken a little toofar can look a little out of
out of control, right yeah?
So a lot of it's just aboutmanaging and being self-aware of
our strengths, because a lot ofthe things that come with this
(08:37):
neurodivergent way of of beingcan be incredibly powerful as
long as we're, as long as we'reaware of them and framing them
correctly.
Angie Colee (08:46):
Oh yeah, and then learning about it and sharing
about.
Well, I mean, like it wasn't aninstant switch where I went and
got the diagnosis and was likeoh my God, now I'm going to
share all about this.
Like even telling people I gotthe diagnosis, I felt a lot of
shame around that.
Felt a lot of shame aroundneeding quote unquote needing
medication in order to function.
But then if you look into theresearch and you realize if
(09:09):
you're missing certain chemicalsin your body, of course your
body is misfiring and doing allkinds of wonky things.
What is wrong with getting anexternal source of chemicals
that your body needs to function?
I don't think there's anythingwrong with it.
Cara Steinmann (09:22):
We're still living in a society that wants
us to function like a neuroquote, neurotypical person.
I'm not sure there is anyonewho's actually neurotypical, I
think I don't know if you followPasha Marlowe at all.
I interviewed her on my podcasta while back and she talks
about how, like everyone is,neuro, like neurodiverse is how
humanity is and and we're all Ilike, have kind of come to think
(09:43):
of it as a circle instead oflike a spectrum, sort of
insinuates a line like on oneend or the other, but I've kind
of started to think of it moreas like a circle with a tiny,
tiny little, almost almostimpossible to see dot in the
tiny in the middle and that'swhat everybody thinks everyone
should be, which is neurotypical, and we're all fanned out
somewhere on that spectrumoutside of there, and those of
(10:03):
us who are farther towards theedge have a harder time getting
in that center.
It's harder for us to actnormal all the time.
So if we're spending our timetrying to be neurotypical and
act like neurotypical peoplewould like us to act, it gives
us anxiety and depression andthen we're really in trouble.
Angie Colee (10:22):
Oh yeah, Masking has been such a huge
conversation with a lot ofpeople that I know lately,
because I find there's a lot ofneurodiversity and ADHD inside
entrepreneurship, like a lotmore than the typical corporate
sphere, Partly because we're allover the place and we're
creatives and we don't reallywork in the typical environment.
(10:42):
Really well, when was I goingwith?
Oh, I remembered Like I waslike where was I going?
And I instantly remembered Iwas talking with somebody on a
mastermind call this morningwhere he talked about like 10
years ago.
That was an exercise that wedid, Like where were you 10
years ago and where are yougoing to be in 10 years which I
love the visualization and hegoes 10 years ago.
(11:02):
You know, I'm being this personwhen I'm pitching over here
because I know what they want tohear, and I'm being this
version of myself over herebecause I know what they want to
hear, and all I typed in thecomments was like oh my God,
that sounds exhausting, Likehaving to put on all these
different identities, having tothink so much about what you're
saying and how you're presenting, instead of just like letting
(11:24):
it happen as it is.
Cara Steinmann (11:26):
It's exhausting.
Well, we learned to do thatgrowing up.
We learned like like code,switching right.
And as women it's even worsebecause we're not supposed to be
leaders.
We're supposed to, we're not,can't be bossy.
I have my own complicatedrelationship with the word
leadership, like I've actuallyhad to do a lot of work on
owning that for myself andunderstanding what that really
means, because I was told I wasbossy and I talked too much and
I have too many opinions and allthese things growing up.
(11:48):
But you know the way, sometimesthe way that our brain works is
a little bit different and wesee things a little bit
differently and different.
People don't really lovedifferent.
If they're on a path they don'twant to be pulled off, even if
it might be a shortcut, like itjust causes a lot of conflict
for us.
So we learn to pretend and thenI don't know like I don't know
about you, but I hit like closeto 40 and then the pandemic hit
(12:11):
and all my coping copingmechanisms failed.
I had still I'm married, I havea child, I was still doing the
second shift and all the unpaidlabor and running a business
that I hated and I basically wasjust like this is not where I'm
supposed to be.
I don't know where I'm supposedto be, but this is not it.
Like I felt like I was, likeall of us were put on this
(12:31):
planet when we jumped into ourearth suits with some kind of
amazing talents and gifts thatwe're supposed to use to make a
difference.
Like we've got a lot ofproblems in this world and I
believe that we're allintelligent and motivated to
change that and fix theseproblems.
But we can't do it if we're notusing the gifts and talents
that we've been given.
And I just knew I wasn't usingthem.
I was like I'm doing marketingand I'm doing project management
(12:51):
and all these things that Isuck at.
And I can tell I suck at thembut it's what I somehow got into
somehow.
But the 10 years ago and the 10years forward thing is
interesting because I have thesame experience as that guy.
I was just masking all over theplace, yep, and exhausted.
Angie Colee (13:09):
I compare it to.
I don't know if you've everlearned a foreign language,
especially like via immersionNot via immersion, no, I was in
college.
I thought this could be sofunny.
I don't know if I've everactually admitted this on the
show.
I thought I was going to be aforeign service officer.
I thought I was going to gointo politics.
I majored in French and minoredin political science and part
(13:33):
of my work, like I did, studyabroad programs I did.
I lived in a language house inone college where we were
speaking the language.
When I went abroad it wasusually living with host
families and you were expectedto speak the language all the
time.
And the funny thing is, like Igot so good at everybody asks
the same questions when you arestarting to learn a language,
(13:55):
right, like where are you from?
Oh, how long have you beenstudying the language?
Do you have a boyfriend?
Do you have a job?
Like they ask you all the samequestions and if you get really
good at answering them, like Idid, they assume that you're a
lot more fluent than you are.
So I remember living in one hostsituation where my host mom
would just like rapid machinegun fire and I'd be like can you
(14:16):
please slow down?
I can't, I don't understand.
And she was like you, big baby,I know that you're smarter than
this.
And I was like, no, I'm smarttoo, but I just can't understand
you.
I'm having trouble keeping up.
But I remember how all thisties together to what we're
talking about.
At the end of the day and thisis why I have a lot of respect
(14:37):
for people who speak multiplelanguages it is a special kind
of exhausting to put your braininto another language all day
long and to think thoughts inanother language.
And I'm not just talking aboutthinking it in your language and
then translating it over, whichis also using energy, but like
putting yourself into anotherlanguage all day, like at the
end of the night.
All I wanted to do was speak alanguage I didn't have to think
(14:59):
about.
Cara Steinmann (14:59):
Yeah, it's a really nice.
It's a nice parallel because ifyou think about it, like when I
when I think back to 10 yearsago, we'll just stay on that
train 10 years ago I was aboutto take a job working for
someone who wanted me, wanted to.
He wanted to hire.
He reached out to me because hewanted to hire somebody to be
like a marketing director in hisdev company.
He wanted to create a marketingarm where he could keep his dev
(15:20):
clients on retainer formarketing.
And I was in inbound marketingat the time and I was like, well
, this is.
He was coming to me as a friend, like what do we need to do
here?
And I said, well, you probablyneed some kind of marketing
strategist or director herewhere who can do this, this and
this.
And I told him what he neededand he's all, would you, would
you do it?
And I was like it was twice asmuch as I was going to get, as I
(15:43):
was getting paid, blah, blah.
I'm like okay.
So I took the disc assessmentand I remember reading the
results.
I came out as a high C, whichis highly conscientious, and a
low D, which is dominant.
Um, and I re.
I remember reading the results,thinking, hmm, I mean, that
doesn't really feel like me, butI guess it could be me.
Um, I burned out in 18 monthsat that job and I figured out
(16:04):
later what I had like hardcoreburned out, quit, like on the
spot.
It was a whole.
There was a whole scene where Istood up and yelled the content
fucking matters.
Um, I think I blacked out alittle bit.
My friend told me I did that.
It was the whole thing.
She still works there so I getto hear updates on how awful
that guy actually is.
But anyway, take fast forward tolike four years ago.
(16:24):
I take the disc again on my ownas an entrepreneur, trying to
figure out who I am and what I'mgreat at, and I just want I
want work to feel easy, I wantit to feel good, I want to be
able to like cruise through lifeand make a big impact and feel
good.
You know and I'm a high I whichis influence low D, so nearly
on the opposite end of thespectrum here like I'm not
conscientious.
And I figured out what I didwas I had known exactly what
(16:46):
that guy needed and I wanted to.
I wanted the job, I wanted thepay raise and it looked like a
fun challenge which, as you know, we love.
I love I can do anything.
I put my mind to right, yep butsustainably acting like a
different person who's highlyconscientious and organized and
structured and cares aboutdetails.
For 18 months, what nearlykilled me.
(17:07):
I was so anxious and burned outand depressed, like I it just
was.
It was untenable and I stilldidn't figure it out.
after that, I still kept goingin a direction that wasn't like
me.
Angie Colee (17:22):
That's how well we're trained yeah,
indoctrinated is more like it.
I mean, especially here in theStates.
We're brought up to be goodworkers, to be good employees
and to think that something iswrong with us if we're
struggling and in some instancesit might be true.
Sometimes a struggle is a signthat something is broken and
(17:42):
that you need to pay attentionto it, but sometimes a struggle
is just because you haven't beengiven information, you haven't
been taught how to think.
Yeah, you don't know how tosolve this problem because it's
new and outside your comfortzone.
That doesn't mean something iswrong with you, and I often tell
people that I've worked with.
You know like you got to beeasy on yourself because you've
been given an employee filter tolook at all these problems
(18:03):
through Right, and so you'regoing to solve it in a way that
you know how.
You knew how to solve it backwhen you did over here Right.
I found this solution thatworked when I was an employee.
It's going to work over here inmy business.
Well, then you just wind uprecreating a job where you have
to do five times the work.
Cara Steinmann (18:16):
Yes, and you hate, you still hate.
Yeah, You're still miserable.
That's what I did and it'sfunny because, like you, we have
to give ourselves permission asentrepreneurs to break the
rules, to think differentlyabout things.
I struggle on Mondays andFridays.
I'm an extrovert technically,according to Myers-Briggs, but I
am really sensitive to peopleand noise and stuff like that
(18:39):
and I get peopled out.
I love people, but everybodygets peopled out eventually,
right?
And I finally figured outrecently that I was so burned
out on the weekends because Iwas not giving myself a break.
And then my family would wantto go hang out and we'd want to
go do stuff with our friends andstuff.
And my husband's like, well,you never want to go out Friday
or Saturday or do anything, andI'm like I'm fucking tired and
so I'm sitting here going wait aminute, I'm the boss.
(19:01):
What if I don't want to workMondays or Fridays or Wednesdays
for that matter?
Maybe those are my thinkingdays and I just do whatever the
fuck I want on those days andmaybe I do a little work, but
it's on my terms and I can tellyou.
It like changed the whole vibeof my business when I just gave
myself permission.
Like who said we have to workon Monday.
Mondays are hard for me.
I absolutely agree.
(19:22):
Who made that rule.
Angie Colee (19:23):
It's fucking stupid , it is bizarre, it is crazy
pants, to think that you have towork five days a week, four
days, like you don't have to doanything.
Cara Steinmann (19:32):
40 hours a week, like why?
Angie Colee (19:33):
is lunch at noon.
No, noon is nap time for AngieLike and I get you on peopled
out.
It's funny, Like, okay.
So here's a little bit ofbehind the scenes for people who
are fans of the show.
(19:53):
It's not a secret that I batchrecord.
I've got four episodes today.
This is the first, you know.
I have an internal rule formyself that I've never really
articulated out loud before nowI don't cook on podcast days.
Good for you.
I don't.
I go out to eat or I just makemyself a sandwich, like when I
hit stop record on that verylast call.
I'm going to wait for thatvideo to finish rendering, I'm
going to send all of that stuffoff to the editor with my notes
and then I'm going to collapseinto a puddle until tomorrow
(20:15):
morning.
This is taking all of my energytoday to be able to connect
with people.
And it's so funny because, likewe're sitting here with a
couple of screens in between us,right, you would think that
this isn't as much of a drain asbeing in a noisy environment,
like you talked about.
But I don't know.
To me this is just and I don'twant to say that I don't mean
that in a bad sense it's just asdraining as being around a
whole bunch of people, but likeit takes a lot of energy to
(20:37):
connect with people.
Cara Steinmann (20:38):
It does.
It does.
It takes a lot of and it'seasier for some people than
others, but it still andespecially if you're really
highly empathetic, right, likeyou're picking up on cues, and I
think I don't know if this is aneurodivergent thing like an
ADHD thing, but we're a littlemore vigilant.
I think we've had to learn tobe a little more vigilant and
that changed our biology, ournervous system, and made us more
(21:02):
neurodivergent.
Maybe it's just we're always onthe lookout, watching signs and
cues, and it's maybe either westarted out really highly
empathetic or it's made us morehighly empathetic.
But it is energy, not thatthat's a bad thing.
I choose to give my energy tocertain things, right, but that
doesn't mean you don't have tofill it back up again.
Angie Colee (21:19):
Yes, absolutely have to fill it back up and to
expect yourself to go, go, goall the time, without ever
taking time to refill your cup,and I know that that's kind of
like a cliche thing but, like somany of us, are out here trying
to give to other people from anempty cup Like come on, come on
.
You deserve the same love andcare that you would give someone
that you love and respect.
Cara Steinmann (21:40):
Naps are amazing , Like I think everybody should
nap.
I think was it yesterday or theday before.
I took a two and a half hournap.
I was tired, Delightful.
Also, who says it's 20 minutes?
Who says you have to take a 20minute nap?
I'm sure there's somebiochemistry.
Whatever person out there who'sgoing to tell me it's going to
sap you, but I felt really goodafter two and a half hours.
Angie Colee (21:59):
Oh, yeah, Well, and I mean most of the time I take
like a 20 to 30 minute power nap, but sometimes when that alarm
goes off, the body goes nope,need more.
Okay, cool, I respect my bodyand my internal signals enough
to give my body the rest that itneeds.
Like that actually happenedseveral weeks ago I think I
don't know if I mentioned itbefore I actually had a day
(22:24):
where I had to cancel all of mypodcast recordings because at
some point in the night when Iwas sleeping, I managed to pinch
a nerve in my shoulder and Idon't know if you've ever had
that Like.
It's an extreme, it's aradiating kind of pain, it's a
no position is comfortable and Iknow that there are much more
painful injuries out there likethat, but nerve pain is just, oh
it sucks.
I didn't sleep well that night.
I woke up the next morning.
I'm still in pain and I justreached out to everybody and was
(22:46):
like you know what I reallyhate to do this at the last
minute, but I can't record today.
I'm just I'm going to besitting here grimacing every
time I move wrong and it's notgoing to be that like distracted
and in pain is not the energy Iwant to bring to the show.
So can we please reschedule?
Every single one of them was alovely person, going absolutely
Like if you can't show up, 100%go rest.
Cara Steinmann (23:06):
I guarantee you half of them were like, oh good,
I was having a tough day tooand I didn't feel like it.
My girlfriend and I have a jokeabout that.
Because you know howschadenfreude is, like the
finding joy in someone else'smisery, we coined the phrase
abwesenfreude, which is likeabwesen is abandon, like the joy
of being abandoned on, likewhen someone flakes on a Zoom
call or something and you'relike, oh God, I really wanted a
(23:28):
nap.
I'm so happy I got abandonedtoday.
Angie Colee (23:30):
Yes, that's actually happened a couple of
times.
I wasn't as annoyed as I wouldnormally be by somebody who
stands me up for a podcastrecording, because I was like,
oh God, I'm tired, yes, I'mgoing to go take a nap now.
Yeah, exactly.
Well, now that we've followedevery shiny thread under the sun
, let's get back to yourbusiness, right?
So you got into coaching andyou mentioned a little bit
earlier about building abusiness that you hated.
(23:52):
Tell me a little bit aboutgetting into that and what
discovering you hated.
Cara Steinmann (23:56):
It was like oh, so I started doing well.
So I used to love to write andI kind of got into content
marketing and digital marketingarea.
Through that.
I was writing fitness contentfor a lot of years and it was
really easy because I knew a lotof.
I was a fitness trainer in apast life and I it was easy to
write about and I cared aboutwomen's fitness and blah, blah,
blah and so that.
But you know, as a curiousperson, that led to learning
(24:17):
about SEO and learning about adsand learning all the things
working for a couple of agenciesand pretty soon I knew how to
do a lot of things, but thatdidn't necessarily mean that I
was really well-suited to themor good at them.
But I really hated working forother people.
I was.
I'm not a good employee.
I'm too entrepreneurial.
I want my freedom.
I want to make my own decisionsand strategize in a way that
makes sense to me.
(24:38):
So finally, in 2017, after or2018, after going to work for
several other people, I createdmy own LLC and went back to work
for myself writing, doingcontent, strategy and marketing
for companies, small businessesand then after about two, two,
three years, it was like rightin the beginning of the pandemic
.
I was like I hate that, I'mmiserable.
(24:58):
I had my clients were allmiserable.
I hated all my clients Ishouldn't say hated them.
Some of the people were reallynice but I wasn't like really
well suited to it for I was justmiserable.
I found myself not like hopingclients wouldn't sign the
contract and I'm like this isn'tgood.
I'm making money but I don'twant more like clients, what is
happening here?
(25:18):
And I didn't honestly know whatwas going on at first.
I just knew that for somereason I was not loving what I
was doing and I wasn't killingit Like I was.
I was keeping my head abovewater.
But I would say I was in myzone of competency not my zone
of excellence and certainly notmy zone of genius and I didn't
know what it was.
So I was like, okay, I I spentlike six months pared down all
(25:41):
my clients lived on savings,tried to figure out what the
hell was going on with me, andit's still.
It's been a long journeybecause I'm still not exactly
sure where it's going.
And it's taken me this long toreally lean into the coaching
moniker because there are somany coaches out there and
because it's a little saturated.
It feels a little bit like,well, anyone can call themselves
a coach, right, but I have beencoaching people this whole time
(26:02):
who I'm kind of like a comealong, let's go, come with me,
let's figure this out togethertype of person, and so I tend to
share any of the knowledge thatI have and it just it's turned
into a business that is veryexperimental.
I'm I've got my RavelCollective, which is the
community, online, and I love it, and it's all about referrals
(26:23):
and networking.
Like we say, come for the comefor the referral, stay for the
friendships.
It's.
It's a very like people firstkind of kind of space and it's
safe.
So everybody feels really goodbeing themselves and yeah, I
mean, I don't really know whatelse you want to know I'm.
I'm just I'm so passionateabout bringing women together
because we've been pittedagainst each other in society
(26:44):
and because we're we're alllooking at each other on the
outside of this glossy facadethat we're putting on and seeing
that it looks like everybody'sgot their shit together and God
forbid like we don't know whatwe're doing and when you get
like you get a bunch of women ina room who are, by any standard
, even remotely successful, theystill feel like they don't know
what the fuck they're doing.
(27:05):
We all and I feel like some ofthat is because we're so we try,
we're focused on personaldevelopment and self-awareness
and we're aware that we'realways growing and changing and,
like my business doesn't looktoday like it did a year ago or
two years ago and it's going tobe different in five years.
And there's no like end pointwhere we sit down and say, well,
I figured it out, I havearrived and now I am a success.
Angie Colee (27:30):
That's just not how it works right, there's always
another finish line to cross,and I'm fond of reminding people
if you've got this mindsetright, and it's sneaky because
it just sits there as a beliefuntil you articulate it out loud
and realize that you're kind ofbeing ridiculous.
But, like I'm going to, I'mgoing to find that finish line
(27:51):
that crosses me into happy landand then I can coast until the
end of time.
And, my friends, the finishline is is the final finish line
.
It's the one that you don'tcome back from, the one that we
don't know what happens next.
Right, like, so you got topractice putting a couple,
couple extra lines between youand the final finish line and
like, cross this one and behappy for a little bit and then
(28:12):
remember oh yeah, there'sanother one over there, okay,
here we go, I think.
Cara Steinmann (28:16):
I think for me it's more about like impact,
like what's the impact that Ican make with the work that I'm
doing today and tomorrow and thenext day?
And, like you know, I feel likewhen you're just doing what
you're built to do, it doesn'tfeel like work and the money
just comes because you are thebest at what you're doing.
Like nobody's going to come tothe table with the same gifts
and talents and experience andpassions that you are.
(28:37):
There's just no way.
I mean there's in just in theClifton top five, there's like
one in 34, almost 34 millionchance someone will have the
same top five as you.
That's not even counting the 34.
And we use them all indifferent degrees and different
intensities.
And I think I think we did themath and it was like like maybe
(28:58):
20 people in the entire worldwill have the same 34 strengths
in the same order, and that'sjust one assessment.
Yeah, like you're, there's no I.
I just I take issue with womenbeing in competition with with
each other in that way, likethere's room for everybody.
We can all.
I love networking with people,with other coaches, with other
(29:20):
people who do what it looks likeI do because they're not doing
it exactly the same way and noteverybody's meant to be in my
community, and I love being ableto refer people who are a
better fit for someone else'scommunity or for some other
coach Like absolutely I.
Angie Colee (29:34):
Actually I had an experience with that exact same
thing yesterday on a differentnetworking call.
I had been working on thisoffer for a while where I
combined like the interviewskills I've developed as a
podcast host and runningmarketing teams and stuff like
that to help pull people'sreally awesome stories out, the
stuff that they don't think isreally great marketing content,
(29:54):
and turn it into marketing.
And so I'd been working on thisoffer and trying to find the
right language around it and theright people for it and the
right structure for it.
Like this has been a nine monthjourney.
And then I'm on a callyesterday with somebody who does
pretty much the exact sameprocess as me and she's got it
all neatly lined out on herwebsite and it's all the right
language and I was like Jesus.
(30:15):
I had a moment where I was likethis freaking sucks, somebody's
already doing it.
And then I came back to myselfand went all right, no, you're a
marketer.
She's got this whole angle,which is really cool, because
not many people would suspectthat I'm a spa person, but I'm
totally like, put me in one ofthose European style spas where
I can hop from amenity toamenity all day long Angie's
happy spot, but anyway, likeshe's got this whole spa
(30:37):
aesthetic as part of herbranding and like a cold plunge
option and stuff like that.
And so I actually found myselfmessaging her and going, hey,
you know, I don't know if youremember me, but I would love to
reconnect.
I love everything that you'redoing and I actually like I was
checking it out and reading itand I was in awe because I'm
actually doing something reallysimilar.
If you're open to it, could Iask you a couple of questions
(30:57):
about your process and whatyou're learning about all of
this?
Like, I'm really curious aboutthis and the cool thing about it
is the front-facing brands.
Right, you're listening toPermission to Kick Ass.
You know what the fuck I soundlike?
Right, I don't sound like a spagoer, even though I like being
in the spa.
I sound like somebody who kicksdown the door and sets
something on fire.
So there's room for both of usto do the exact same thing,
(31:20):
because different people aregoing to get different things
out of working with each of usand there could conceivably be
somebody that works with both ofus, because they get value from
that.
Cara Steinmann (31:29):
Exactly, and there's.
You couldn't have said itbetter.
It's so true.
And this is exactly why we haveto show up as our own, like
authenticity I think.
Sometimes I'll say likeauthenticity is one of my core
values freedom, authenticity andconnection.
And a lot of people are tiredof the word authenticity.
They think it's like a buzzword.
But let me tell you, if youdon't act authentic, you're
(31:50):
gonna know and it's gonna be aproblem.
And if we all show up asourselves, it's really easy to
tell who you wanna gravitatetowards.
Like you can find your people.
One of the biggest problems withwomen entrepreneurs is we're
fucking lonely.
It's hard to build strongrelationships remotely.
A lot of us have kids.
It's hard to build strongrelationships remotely.
A lot of us have kids.
A lot of us have other stuffgoing on that kind of pulls us
away.
In the evenings we're not goingout to networking events.
(32:12):
It's difficult sometimes tobuild these relationships that
really can carry us through andhelp support us in our business.
And having a bunch of womenrally around you and support you
, it feels amazing.
And if you show up as yourselfand you let people see the real
you, it feels amazing.
And if you show up as yourselfand you let people see the real
you, they're going to eithergravitate towards you or away.
They're not going to just staystagnant.
It's either coming towards youor away from you, and we don't
(32:35):
want the people away from us.
They need to go somewhere elseand deal with other people.
I don't care if somebodydoesn't like me.
Maybe 10 years ago I would havecared.
I probably cared 10 years ago,but now I see the value in
relaxing, being who I am,knowing who that is and letting
people who appreciate that comecloser.
Angie Colee (32:55):
Oh yes, I think that perspective for me changed
when I realized, like I don'teven know how it happened, but
it just was one of those momentswhere it all clicked into place
.
Do I want to know 8 billionpeople and have all of them like
me?
Absolutely not.
I don't even have space forlike the several hundred to a
couple thousand I already know.
I can't keep in touch with allof those people regularly.
(33:17):
So, like, if you're coming intomy circle, into my world and
being like you need to changewho you are for me to be
comfortable here, I go cool, gobe comfortable somewhere else.
Totally, yeah, I'm not changing.
Cara Steinmann (33:28):
I don't want to know all I don't there's.
We can't.
We can't be close to that manypeople and it's really about the
depth of a relationship.
We cannot be close andsupportive and really know and
care about that many people.
I think 150 is the number.
I forget the guy's name.
I used to know it, but it'sjust not possible and for some
(33:49):
people maybe they can carry morepeople in their head.
I tend to be able to carry moreinformation and detail about a
lot of people in my head, butI'm not super close to all of
those people.
Angie Colee (34:02):
And I wouldn't want to be.
I wouldn't want to be eitherand, like the nature of ADHD too
is like a lot of info,overwhelm, a lot of hyper
fixation.
And then the funny way my brainworks, which I've discovered a
lot of other people have asimilar way of doing things.
It's like if I thought aboutyou and I went oh Kara, she's
such an awesome person, my brainfiles that under just talk to
(34:22):
Kara.
And I can go for like five, 10years that way over here in my
own world doing my own thing,thinking awesome thoughts about
you, talking awesome shit aboutyou behind your back to other
people.
Yeah, Not actually talking toyou not actually registering
that I'm not talking to you, andthat's how I know that I can
pick up the phone after fiveyears and talk to somebody like
(34:44):
no time has passed, Because inmy brain it hasn't.
I've been over here thinkingawesome stuff about you the
entire time instead of going.
Why haven't I heard from her?
Oh, my God and that's not todisparage anybody that thinks
like that, it's just you know,you've got your life, I've got
my life.
We're all busy trying to do thebest that we can.
So trying to do the best thatwe can.
So I'd rather just assume thatyou're out there going.
It's been a while since Italked to Angie.
(35:05):
I hope she's okay and then yougo about your life and it's fine
.
We'll talk when we talk.
Cara Steinmann (35:09):
Yeah, see, I have.
I have this.
I have input at my number twoin Clifton.
So I tend to like collectinformation and I'm like a, my
brain's like a Google, like I'mfiling things away and I'm
collecting things.
But because of my number onebeing connectedness, I tend to
collect people and informationabout people.
So when that happens to me andI think, oh, angie, I wonder how
(35:30):
she's doing, it'll be because Iran into a piece of information
that reminded me of you and soI'll send you that information,
or something like theimpulsiveness that comes with
the ADHD thing, I think, worksout really well for me in that
way, because I'll just reach outand be like, hey, I found this
article, I thought you mightlike it, and you're like, oh my
gosh, she was thinking about me,is?
Angie Colee (35:47):
that like pebbling, but for networking.
That's fantastic.
Cara Steinmann (35:50):
Yeah, yeah, I heard that recently.
Angie Colee (35:52):
Absolutely yeah.
For anybody that's unfamiliarwith that concept, there's the
five love languages of acts ofservice, words of affirmation,
all that stuff.
There's also kind of a longrunning joke, which to me is
fairly accurate, about differentbehaviors for ADHD folks.
One of them is like pebbling,which is this concept that
(36:15):
derives from penguins.
That's like hey, I found thiscool thing.
I'm picking up one of my travelcoins and showing it on the.
I found this cool thing and Ithought you might like it here.
Here's the thing.
I'm giving it to you.
Cara Steinmann (36:22):
When your text messages consist of nothing but
memes to your friends.
I saw this and I thought of you.
Memes are my love language.
Angie Colee (36:29):
Oh, absolutely, and I love it when people get it so
like I'm getting to a point.
I actually had somebody thatrecorded with me last week that
was like and now that we'vetaken about eight shiny loops
and I was like I honestlysuspect that everybody that
listens to the show is also veryADHD and this is just like it's
tickling that great spot in thebrain.
Cara Steinmann (36:48):
That goes, yes, it goes down the rabbit hole and
goes.
Well, that's another thing Iused to really be hard on myself
about was the rabbit hole thing.
I would get lost in informationand go I'd end up somewhere
completely different.
Just by one Google search thatI was curious about, and pretty
soon I'm at the library readingseven well, barnes and Nobles,
probably buying like sevendifferent books to like study
about this thing, and thencompletely going somewhere else
(37:10):
with it and I'm like man, I'm sorandom, but it's not random,
and sometimes you find reallyamazing things when you're not
so structured.
And so I've come to reallyappreciate, just like letting
myself have time to do that,like maybe my brain needs that.
Angie Colee (37:29):
That's always been my definition of creativity and
that's probably why I seecreativity as different from
kind of mainstream traditionaldefinitions of it.
A lot of folks put creativityinto a bucket or a box, and
creativity creativity, on onehand loves boxes but also hate.
Is Schrodinger's creativity.
Do we love the box?
Do we hate the box?
We don't know.
But to me creativity is beingable to see a connection between
(37:51):
two things.
That is not immediately obviousand I've done exercises like
this at my own retreats to likefind me a connection between a
lamp and a lock, and people arelike, oh, there's like that
brief couple seconds of shortcircuit before they start going
in.
Oh, there's metal pieces,there's something that turns and
maybe clicks Like you mightfind both, and then the creative
(38:13):
ideas start.
You might find both of these ata storage facility.
Right, that's creativity isfinding connections.
And there are creativeaccountants, there are creative
mechanics, there are creativemechanics, there are creative
artists.
Like.
Everybody has this potential tobe creative.
If you allow yourself to be andstop putting these judgments on
yourself for being random, weall get to be random.
Cara Steinmann (38:35):
I like to think about how creative entrepreneurs
are just in the fact that theyare entrepreneurs, like we are
creating something out of thinair that didn't exist before.
This business, this offer, thispodcast, like this did not
exist before, and now it haslife and legs and we created
that out of our mind.
Angie Colee (38:53):
Like that's just blows me away all the time I get
sucked into those loops, Likejust every once in a while I
have that thought and I've saidit several times on the show,
but like it bears repeating.
Do you know how many billionsupon billions upon billions of
things had to happen just so forus to be here right now having
this conversation?
If somebody turns left insteadof right, maybe your parents
(39:19):
didn't meet and one of usdoesn't exist.
Cara Steinmann (39:26):
Crazy amounts of shit had to line up for this to
happen, and every once in awhile when that thought pops
into my head, I just go, oh andwonder how crazy is this big old
planet?
Sometimes I get a lot of.
I don't do a lot of likeoutreach anymore, but a lot of
people introduce other people tome and so I'm like what if that
person hadn't thought of that?
Or what if I hadn't said aparticular thing in a
conversation that made themthink they should introduce that
person?
And sometimes it ends up beingsuch an amazing relationship and
(39:47):
connection and I'm like man, Ididn't, I had nothing to do with
that, that just showed up on mydoorstep somehow.
It's magic.
Angie Colee (39:56):
Yeah, one of my friends talks about that.
It's like.
She calls it the concept ofsurrender and I like I like
thinking of it as the concept ofallow, like just allow things
to happen, don't placeartificial constraints and
restrictions on things.
It's an experiment.
I actually wrote that downearlier at the beginning,
(40:17):
because you mentioned that youwere experimenting a lot and I
was like that's what I likeabout problem solving If we can
detach ourselves from theoutcomes and just get curious,
then that opens up a lot ofspace for us to go.
I wonder what happens if andthen we just get to experiment
instead of going.
I'm a failure.
All these things I tried failedNewsflash.
Every single entrepreneur everin the history of mankind has
(40:38):
failed much, much more thanthey've succeeded.
Cara Steinmann (40:41):
One of my favorite graphics is that X Y
axis with the straight line thatgoes up to the corner the
outside corner and it sayswhat's what people think
entrepreneurial success lookslike.
Right, and then the next one iswhat it actually looks like and
it's like the line goes up andthen it squiggles around and
goes 10 different hundred orthousands of different
directions in this tiny biggiant knot and then at the end
(41:02):
it's finally like up in thecorner and it's that's very much
what it feels like.
But the reframe that I'veadopted on this is what you said
the experimenting.
It was years and years ago agirlfriend of mine sent me a
podcast about experimenting, whywe should all experiment more,
and I was like, okay, I'lllisten to this and again like,
why did she send it to me?
But it completely changed myoutlook on the way that I.
(41:24):
I again like, why did she sendit to me?
But it completely changed myoutlook on the way that I I
create offerings, the way that Isell stuff, everything in my
business I look at as anexperiment now, cause I also
don't want to.
I don't want to spend six weeksplanning a launch for a product
or some kind of course or somekind of something, and then find
out, like what if it does sell?
And I hate it, I hate doing it.
So I'm a big fan of taking likesmall imperfect steps all the
(41:46):
time, constantly and just seeinglike how did that feel to me?
Not, how does that look or howshould that feel, because
there's a lot of information outthere about what our businesses
should look like and how weshould be creating offers and
marketing them and everythinglike that.
But like really checking inwith myself, how does this feel
with me and the way that I wantto live and operate and do I
(42:07):
want to do this again?
Did people respond to it?
Did I enjoy doing it?
Should?
I do it again.
I mean, that's kind of how theretreat went in April that I'd
never thrown a retreat beforeand I wasn't really even sure I
was going to enjoy it, because Iget people out.
You know, honestly, it was thefirst time I've ever gone
anywhere with a group of peopleand not needed to sleep for a
week.
When I got home I was so jazzedwhen I got home we just had the
(42:28):
best time.
Somebody I was joking tosomebody about it that was there
and there were eight of usthere at this in San Diego at
this women's mastermind retreatand we just wanted to be cozy
and comfy the whole time.
I didn't wear any of the fancyclothes I brought.
I mean, fancy for me is notvery fancy anyway but I joked
with somebody the last day.
I was like I should have justcalled this the pajama party
mastermind and somebody's like Iwould have signed up
immediately, instantly.
Angie Colee (42:50):
Yes, instantly yes.
And that's just further proofthat, like, there's more than
enough room for all of us.
Because I remember when I hadmy first retreat idea, it was
tied to this idea of I traveleda lot as a digital nomad.
It was tied to this idea of Itraveled a lot as a digital
nomad and the beauty of doingthat by myself meant that I got
to try a bunch of things and go,okay, I've never done this
before, let's see what happens.
(43:11):
And so one of these crazy ideasI got was I wonder if I could
get, I wonder if I could havesome sort of business event
where we drove bulldozers and Idon't know exactly what the
connection is yet, but it feelslike there's something there
about driving a big, scarymachine and then like working on
your business and a whole bunchof white space, cause I hate
going to business conferenceswhere there's like 40 speakers
and I'm expected to make senseof all this information.
(43:32):
Nope, it's not going to happen.
I'm going to enjoy absorbing itwhile I'm there and I'm going
to promptly yeet it out thewindow as soon as I'm back home.
No-transcript.
And people were immediately in,just like.
(43:53):
Sometimes the idea is sopowerful that people are like,
yes, and they're alsoexperimenting.
I'm going to go, let's see whathappens.
Cara Steinmann (43:59):
That's what happens when you experiment and
when you come from a place oflike, genuinely, what do I like?
That's kind of where it comesfrom for me, Not kind of.
It is like I wanted amastermind retreat where I could
just go chill out.
I wanted to go on vacation witha bunch of my business besties,
because I've got like four bestfriends from high school and
they're all gainfully employedAttorneys, nurses.
I love them.
They're amazing.
But when we go on our yearlygetaway, our golden girls
(44:21):
getaway together, we don't talkabout my I don't.
I don't get to talk about mybusiness or think about it for
like five days because we'retalking about our kids and we're
talking about things that weall have in common and old times
and good times and blah, blah,blah.
But it's a totally differentexperiment experience when you
get to go away with a bunch ofwomen who have the same identity
that you have as anentrepreneur.
(44:49):
And you get to sit and talkabout your leadership skills and
your fears and your concernsand your wins and your losses.
I mean, all of us cried at leastonce, like tears were shed in a
good way.
And it was actually funnybecause at one point I had part
of it catered and this guy keptcoming in the room to clean up
and one of the women was talkingabout some personal kind of
stuff and she was teary and therest of us were kind of like you
know, tearing up with her and Ikept looking over at this guy,
like get the fuck out of here,like get your penis out of here.
(45:15):
What are you doing in here?
Like so, so again, that was anexperiment and I've decided that
the next one I'm going to hostit in the hospitality suite, the
whole thing in the hospitalitysuite, so that I don't have to
be, we don't have to beinterrupted.
Like I learned something thefirst time so that I can carry
that into the next time and makeit even better.
But it's, it's just, it'spowerful to be in in company, in
collaboration with women, and Ijust am so in awe every time I
(45:38):
turn around the women that I'vebeen able to connect with and
bring together are workingtogether, building businesses
together, like promoting eachother, buying each other's books
and telling everybody about it.
It's like it's wild and I justdon't think you see that
everywhere.
Angie Colee (45:53):
You really don't, and I love that you're on this
mission to help people justconnect, collaborate, realize
that we're not in competition.
I like to tell people we arenot competing for a slice of pie
.
We get to make all kinds ofdifferent pie a huge pie, a
Guinness world record recordbreaking pie, a pizza pie.
It doesn't have to be fruitypie or chocolate pie or whatever
(46:15):
.
Have I said pie enough in thelast 30 seconds?
Cara Steinmann (46:18):
I want to read you my favorite quote speaking
of which, so I actually put this.
I had this little book made,this little Denick notebook made
for the retreat, and on theinside cover I put my favorite
quote as of late.
It's Abby Wambach and she saysmaintaining the illusion of
scarcity is how power keepswomen competing for the singular
seat at the old table insteadof uniting and building a new,
(46:38):
bigger table.
Yes, and that's just like.
I just love that because it'ssuch an illusion of scarcity.
Angie Colee (46:46):
Yeah, there's plenty for everybody and you
don't have to buy into it.
The beauty of reality is it'snot real.
It's all made up and the pointsdon't matter, and if you don't
like your current reality, youcan make another one, and it's a
super success hack to know thatwomen in collaboration makes
business easier, Like when youget when.
Cara Steinmann (47:03):
When someone knows you really well and they
like you, they're gonna referyou.
If they know what you do andyou do something really well,
they're gonna talk about you totheir friends.
It's what we do.
We lift each other up, we bragabout each other and we can't
help it.
It's just how we are.
Yes, man.
Angie Colee (47:18):
I wanna keep going for like two more hours, but I
just realized we had time.
So, speaking of all the womenthat you collaborate with and
you help uplift, tell us moreabout your work and where we can
learn about you.
Cara Steinmann (47:34):
Yeah, so I have a website ravelcollectivecom is
the online community and then Ihost some masterminds.
I'm actually in the middle of akind of rework of my website to
include, because themasterminds were kind of on the
down low for a little bit.
But you can learn about theretreats on the Ravel website.
And then I love to connect withpeople on LinkedIn, where you
can also find my personalwebsite, karasteinmancom and by
the time this airs, I think thewebsite probably will be up to
date and that's where you canfind all the coaching,
(47:54):
information and just ways toconnect with me and become part
of the community.
I love that.
Angie Colee (48:00):
I love that.
I'll make sure that there areclickable links in the show
notes, along with all theresources that we mentioned.
Thank you so much for being anawesome guest.
I really appreciate you.
Cara Steinmann (48:08):
Thank you for having me on.
I love this conversation somuch.
Angie Colee (48:13):
That's all for now.
If you want to keep thatkick-ass energy high, please
take a minute to share thisepisode with someone that might
need a high-octane dose of youCan Do it.
Don't forget to rate, reviewand subscribe to the Permission
to Kick Ass podcast on ApplePodcasts, spotify and wherever
you stream your podcasts.
I'm your host, angie Coley, andI'm here rooting for you.
Thanks for listening and let'sgo kick some ass.
Welcome to Permission to Kick Ass, the show
that gives you a virtual seatat the bar for the real
conversations that happenbetween entrepreneurs.
I'm interviewing all kinds ofbusiness owners, from those just
a few years into freelancing toCEOs helming nine-figure
companies.
If you've ever worried thateveryone else just seems to get
it and you're missing somethingor messing things up, this show
(00:24):
is for you.
I'm your host, angie Coley, andlet's get to it and welcome
back to Permission to Kick Ass.
With me today is my new friend,kara Steinman.
Say hi, hi, thanks for havingme.
Oh, I'm excited for this one.
(00:44):
We were just getting intotalking a little bit too much
before the show.
I almost forgot to hit record.
But anyway, before I go off therails, tell us a little bit
about what you do.
Cara Steinmann (00:51):
All right.
So I'm Kara Steinman.
I'm a Gallup certifiedstrengths coach and I do women's
leadership coaching forentrepreneurs, and I have an
online community called Raveland that is a networking
community for womenentrepreneurs.
Everything I do is around womenentrepreneurs.
In case you're not catchingthat, it's a little bit of an
obsession of mine helping womenget into the business.
(01:13):
They love build the business,they love build community around
the business.
They love Cause we can't do italone.
Even though society would likeus to think that we should,
we're not.
We're not doing that here.
So, yeah, so, and I have, Ihost a couple of masterminds.
And then recently, this lastyear, this earlier this year, I
(01:34):
hosted my first mastermindretreat, which was amazing, and
I'm planning another one inSedona for the fall.
So that's kind of what I'm upto.
Angie Colee (01:38):
Ooh, that's awesome .
I have so many questions.
First, I wanted to know I tookGallup last year, Like that was
my first assessment with thatWhat'd you think?
I was surprised, but notsurprised.
What is the activator?
And strategic or strategy weremy top two, and then when I read
the definitions of those I went, oh yeah, that makes a whole
(02:00):
lot of sense.
Cara Steinmann (02:01):
That tracks?
Yeah, I have those in my topfive too.
I was doing CliftonStrengthswas one of the assessments that
I did.
I'd done it years ago for somejob but I don't even know if I
ever saw the results.
It was like the boss justwanted to see what I was all
about or something.
But when I did it for myselfand I was looking at the results
, it was kind of a game changerbecause I could see on on paper
that I had zero of my top 10strengths in executing.
(02:23):
So I'm very much big, butthat's not really helpful when
you are built like you're you're.
You grow up thinking you'resupposed to produce and you're
supposed to, you're supposed todo things a certain way.
And it was always so hard forme working for other people and
producing like repetitive thingsand anyway, I digress.
Cliftonstrengths was a huge,huge game changer for me, just
(02:44):
seeing that on paper and beinglike, oh, I'm not built like
that, okay.
Angie Colee (02:48):
Yeah, no, I don't think that that's digress at all
, like a digressing what is thatword?
Digression, digressing,whatever?
Yeah, I don't know, you knowwhat I mean.
It was not a diversionwhatsoever, because I feel like
this is happening a lot in thelast couple of weeks and I even
wrote a post about it recently.
Like you are not the money inthe bank, you are not what you
(03:09):
can produce and what you can dofor other people, and I'm
getting sick and fucking tiredof all of us tying our
self-worth, our self-image, tolike how much we can do, how
much we can achieve.
You deserve love, you deservecomfort, you deserve happiness
and whatever your definition ofsuccess is by merit, of being a
(03:33):
human on planet earth Like youexist and that's enough and I
know that that's easier saidthan done to find the people
that love you and respect youfor who you are and see you on
your down days.
But like you're not yourfucking money, you're not, you
know what the trick is with thattoo.
Cara Steinmann (03:49):
The trickiest part with that is letting
yourself be seen, and I you knowfrom personal experience tried
to hide my own, like probablyauthentic self for a long, long
time.
Growing up.
I'm a neurodivergent.
I didn't know that until I was44.
No, not 44.
I was 41 when I officially gotlike diagnosed.
They were like and thank you,tiktok.
We were talking about TikTokoffline.
(04:10):
I was seeing all these postsonline Like do you do this?
You might not be an asshole,you might be ADHD.
And I remember thinking, oh myGod, I have been like thinking I
was an asshole for all theseyears, like why can't I stop
doing this?
Why can't I stop doing that?
Just be more this way, just bemore that way.
And then come to find out mybrain just works a little bit
differently and if I roll withit, life is so much easier.
(04:33):
Yes, it's crazy.
Angie Colee (04:35):
Yes, I love that too.
I had made jokes for years andyears and years about being a
little ADHD but, like I neverreally took it seriously.
And then I grew up in an areawhere it's I don't know it seems
passe almost to like judgeother people for whatever right
I've made the joke on the showbefore.
I grew up thinking thatmeditation was hippy, dippy
(04:57):
bullshit, because I'm from Texasand that's what we say about
things right, and I thought thatADHD was just another like fad
diagnosis until same thing asyou I started talking to people
with it.
I had developed all these toolsfor years that I didn't realize
was a coping and a maskingmechanism, like I've shown
people.
Anybody that's watching thevideo get to see this.
(05:17):
Check out my favorite littletool here, this little hexagon
timer.
Cara Steinmann (05:22):
What is that?
Angie Colee (05:22):
Oh, it's a timer, because I can just rotate it and
the timer is set Right, andthat's cool.
It doesn't sound like a bigdeal, until you realize that my
brain is the type that if I justtried to set a timer on my
phone or like by opening upGoogle as a timer, well then
I've just lost three or fourhours.
I'm so easily distractible.
(05:43):
So the ability to set a timer byjust rotating this device saves
me so much time and keeps memore focused.
But anyway, like talk about anADHD tangent, Like once my tools
stopped working all at the sametime a couple years ago.
That was when I started reallygoing okay, maybe, maybe it's
time to stop joking about thisand take this seriously.
(06:05):
Maybe it's time to seek out andsee if this is something that
I'm struggling with.
And now I love that we'rehaving this conversation more
and more because, I mean, I amnot a scientist, I'm not a
medical professional, butAngie's opinion on the matter of
ADHD is that this is not goingto be in the diagnostic manuals
in the future.
(06:25):
Like, we're just going torealize eventually that some
people have a brain wired thisway and some people have a brain
wired this way and that's whatmakes society work.
Cara Steinmann (06:34):
And it's interesting if you look at it in
terms of like personality testsand stuff my back my degrees in
psychology and I've beenobsessed with human behavior
like my whole life, maybebecause I felt different on some
level and I just didn't really.
I really wanted to understandwhy people were doing the things
that they were doing, cause itmaybe it didn't seem like I
would do it that way orsomething, but anyway.
So if you start looking at allof the assessments, like the
(06:55):
strengths, clifton strengths andthe disc assessment and even
Myers-Briggs like Myers-Briggswas one of the tests I took
several years ago when I waskind of melting down from
building a business that I endedup hating and I was like what's
wrong with me?
I have this business, it makesmoney, I'm supposed to be happy.
Like I thought working forother people was what was making
me depressed and miserable andanxious.
(07:16):
And now I'm still feeling thatway working for myself and I was
like something is definitelywrong with me and I basically
like kind of burned it all downand was like I have to start
from scratch and I don't knowwho I am or what I'm good at.
Like I'm 40 and I'm lost.
I don't even know who I am, andso so I bent back to the basics
and I was like what can I provehere?
What do I?
So I take all the tests rightand I started noticing these
(07:36):
little trends, like inMyers-Briggs.
It said something about how Ilove to gather information and
go really deep in a topic andthen I forget all about it Cause
I don't care, I don't need toknow anymore, I'm done.
And that, like that's.
My husband's called me laserbeam for years, like not in a
not he's a kind man, but not ina kind way Like he.
It's been an annoying thing tohim because I will pick up
(07:57):
hobbies or do things like reallyintensely for a while and then
just totally burn out on themwhile and then just totally burn
out on them.
And I remember seeing that inmy personality, like written
down as part of me and andhaving it framed in a different
way, and I was like, oh my God,that's just part of my
personality, I'm not just beinga jerk, that's just part of my
personality.
(08:17):
And if you look in all of thedifferent parts of people's
personalities on disc and thenthe different strengths, you can
kind of see how, like thosethings taken a little too far.
Any strength taken a little toofar can look a little out of
out of control, right yeah?
So a lot of it's just aboutmanaging and being self-aware of
our strengths, because a lot ofthe things that come with this
(08:37):
neurodivergent way of of beingcan be incredibly powerful as
long as we're, as long as we'reaware of them and framing them
correctly.
Angie Colee (08:46):
Oh yeah, and then learning about it and sharing
about.
Well, I mean, like it wasn't aninstant switch where I went and
got the diagnosis and was likeoh my God, now I'm going to
share all about this.
Like even telling people I gotthe diagnosis, I felt a lot of
shame around that.
Felt a lot of shame aroundneeding quote unquote needing
medication in order to function.
But then if you look into theresearch and you realize if
(09:09):
you're missing certain chemicalsin your body, of course your
body is misfiring and doing allkinds of wonky things.
What is wrong with getting anexternal source of chemicals
that your body needs to function?
I don't think there's anythingwrong with it.
Cara Steinmann (09:22):
We're still living in a society that wants
us to function like a neuroquote, neurotypical person.
I'm not sure there is anyonewho's actually neurotypical, I
think I don't know if you followPasha Marlowe at all.
I interviewed her on my podcasta while back and she talks
about how, like everyone is,neuro, like neurodiverse is how
humanity is and and we're all Ilike, have kind of come to think
(09:43):
of it as a circle instead oflike a spectrum, sort of
insinuates a line like on oneend or the other, but I've kind
of started to think of it moreas like a circle with a tiny,
tiny little, almost almostimpossible to see dot in the
tiny in the middle and that'swhat everybody thinks everyone
should be, which is neurotypical, and we're all fanned out
somewhere on that spectrumoutside of there, and those of
(10:03):
us who are farther towards theedge have a harder time getting
in that center.
It's harder for us to actnormal all the time.
So if we're spending our timetrying to be neurotypical and
act like neurotypical peoplewould like us to act, it gives
us anxiety and depression andthen we're really in trouble.
Angie Colee (10:22):
Oh yeah, Masking has been such a huge
conversation with a lot ofpeople that I know lately,
because I find there's a lot ofneurodiversity and ADHD inside
entrepreneurship, like a lotmore than the typical corporate
sphere, Partly because we're allover the place and we're
creatives and we don't reallywork in the typical environment.
(10:42):
Really well, when was I goingwith?
Oh, I remembered Like I waslike where was I going?
And I instantly remembered Iwas talking with somebody on a
mastermind call this morningwhere he talked about like 10
years ago.
That was an exercise that wedid, Like where were you 10
years ago and where are yougoing to be in 10 years which I
love the visualization and hegoes 10 years ago.
(11:02):
You know, I'm being this personwhen I'm pitching over here
because I know what they want tohear, and I'm being this
version of myself over herebecause I know what they want to
hear, and all I typed in thecomments was like oh my God,
that sounds exhausting, Likehaving to put on all these
different identities, having tothink so much about what you're
saying and how you're presenting, instead of just like letting
(11:24):
it happen as it is.
Cara Steinmann (11:26):
It's exhausting.
Well, we learned to do thatgrowing up.
We learned like like code,switching right.
And as women it's even worsebecause we're not supposed to be
leaders.
We're supposed to, we're not,can't be bossy.
I have my own complicatedrelationship with the word
leadership, like I've actuallyhad to do a lot of work on
owning that for myself andunderstanding what that really
means, because I was told I wasbossy and I talked too much and
I have too many opinions and allthese things growing up.
(11:48):
But you know the way, sometimesthe way that our brain works is
a little bit different and wesee things a little bit
differently and different.
People don't really lovedifferent.
If they're on a path they don'twant to be pulled off, even if
it might be a shortcut, like itjust causes a lot of conflict
for us.
So we learn to pretend and thenI don't know like I don't know
about you, but I hit like closeto 40 and then the pandemic hit
(12:11):
and all my coping copingmechanisms failed.
I had still I'm married, I havea child, I was still doing the
second shift and all the unpaidlabor and running a business
that I hated and I basically wasjust like this is not where I'm
supposed to be.
I don't know where I'm supposedto be, but this is not it.
Like I felt like I was, likeall of us were put on this
(12:31):
planet when we jumped into ourearth suits with some kind of
amazing talents and gifts thatwe're supposed to use to make a
difference.
Like we've got a lot ofproblems in this world and I
believe that we're allintelligent and motivated to
change that and fix theseproblems.
But we can't do it if we're notusing the gifts and talents
that we've been given.
And I just knew I wasn't usingthem.
I was like I'm doing marketingand I'm doing project management
(12:51):
and all these things that Isuck at.
And I can tell I suck at thembut it's what I somehow got into
somehow.
But the 10 years ago and the 10years forward thing is
interesting because I have thesame experience as that guy.
I was just masking all over theplace, yep, and exhausted.
Angie Colee (13:09):
I compare it to.
I don't know if you've everlearned a foreign language,
especially like via immersionNot via immersion, no, I was in
college.
I thought this could be sofunny.
I don't know if I've everactually admitted this on the
show.
I thought I was going to be aforeign service officer.
I thought I was going to gointo politics.
I majored in French and minoredin political science and part
(13:33):
of my work, like I did, studyabroad programs I did.
I lived in a language house inone college where we were
speaking the language.
When I went abroad it wasusually living with host
families and you were expectedto speak the language all the
time.
And the funny thing is, like Igot so good at everybody asks
the same questions when you arestarting to learn a language,
(13:55):
right, like where are you from?
Oh, how long have you beenstudying the language?
Do you have a boyfriend?
Do you have a job?
Like they ask you all the samequestions and if you get really
good at answering them, like Idid, they assume that you're a
lot more fluent than you are.
So I remember living in one hostsituation where my host mom
would just like rapid machinegun fire and I'd be like can you
(14:16):
please slow down?
I can't, I don't understand.
And she was like you, big baby,I know that you're smarter than
this.
And I was like, no, I'm smarttoo, but I just can't understand
you.
I'm having trouble keeping up.
But I remember how all thisties together to what we're
talking about.
At the end of the day and thisis why I have a lot of respect
(14:37):
for people who speak multiplelanguages it is a special kind
of exhausting to put your braininto another language all day
long and to think thoughts inanother language.
And I'm not just talking aboutthinking it in your language and
then translating it over, whichis also using energy, but like
putting yourself into anotherlanguage all day, like at the
end of the night.
All I wanted to do was speak alanguage I didn't have to think
(14:59):
about.
Cara Steinmann (14:59):
Yeah, it's a really nice.
It's a nice parallel because ifyou think about it, like when I
when I think back to 10 yearsago, we'll just stay on that
train 10 years ago I was aboutto take a job working for
someone who wanted me, wanted to.
He wanted to hire.
He reached out to me because hewanted to hire somebody to be
like a marketing director in hisdev company.
He wanted to create a marketingarm where he could keep his dev
(15:20):
clients on retainer formarketing.
And I was in inbound marketingat the time and I was like, well
, this is.
He was coming to me as a friend, like what do we need to do
here?
And I said, well, you probablyneed some kind of marketing
strategist or director herewhere who can do this, this and
this.
And I told him what he neededand he's all, would you, would
you do it?
And I was like it was twice asmuch as I was going to get, as I
(15:43):
was getting paid, blah, blah.
I'm like okay.
So I took the disc assessmentand I remember reading the
results.
I came out as a high C, whichis highly conscientious, and a
low D, which is dominant.
Um, and I re.
I remember reading the results,thinking, hmm, I mean, that
doesn't really feel like me, butI guess it could be me.
Um, I burned out in 18 monthsat that job and I figured out
(16:04):
later what I had like hardcoreburned out, quit, like on the
spot.
It was a whole.
There was a whole scene where Istood up and yelled the content
fucking matters.
Um, I think I blacked out alittle bit.
My friend told me I did that.
It was the whole thing.
She still works there so I getto hear updates on how awful
that guy actually is.
But anyway, take fast forward tolike four years ago.
(16:24):
I take the disc again on my ownas an entrepreneur, trying to
figure out who I am and what I'mgreat at, and I just want I
want work to feel easy, I wantit to feel good, I want to be
able to like cruise through lifeand make a big impact and feel
good.
You know and I'm a high I whichis influence low D, so nearly
on the opposite end of thespectrum here like I'm not
conscientious.
And I figured out what I didwas I had known exactly what
(16:46):
that guy needed and I wanted to.
I wanted the job, I wanted thepay raise and it looked like a
fun challenge which, as you know, we love.
I love I can do anything.
I put my mind to right, yep butsustainably acting like a
different person who's highlyconscientious and organized and
structured and cares aboutdetails.
For 18 months, what nearlykilled me.
(17:07):
I was so anxious and burned outand depressed, like I it just
was.
It was untenable and I stilldidn't figure it out.
after that, I still kept goingin a direction that wasn't like
me.
Angie Colee (17:22):
That's how well we're trained yeah,
indoctrinated is more like it.
I mean, especially here in theStates.
We're brought up to be goodworkers, to be good employees
and to think that something iswrong with us if we're
struggling and in some instancesit might be true.
Sometimes a struggle is a signthat something is broken and
(17:42):
that you need to pay attentionto it, but sometimes a struggle
is just because you haven't beengiven information, you haven't
been taught how to think.
Yeah, you don't know how tosolve this problem because it's
new and outside your comfortzone.
That doesn't mean something iswrong with you, and I often tell
people that I've worked with.
You know like you got to beeasy on yourself because you've
been given an employee filter tolook at all these problems
(18:03):
through Right, and so you'regoing to solve it in a way that
you know how.
You knew how to solve it backwhen you did over here Right.
I found this solution thatworked when I was an employee.
It's going to work over here inmy business.
Well, then you just wind uprecreating a job where you have
to do five times the work.
Cara Steinmann (18:16):
Yes, and you hate, you still hate.
Yeah, You're still miserable.
That's what I did and it'sfunny because, like you, we have
to give ourselves permission asentrepreneurs to break the
rules, to think differentlyabout things.
I struggle on Mondays andFridays.
I'm an extrovert technically,according to Myers-Briggs, but I
am really sensitive to peopleand noise and stuff like that
(18:39):
and I get peopled out.
I love people, but everybodygets peopled out eventually,
right?
And I finally figured outrecently that I was so burned
out on the weekends because Iwas not giving myself a break.
And then my family would wantto go hang out and we'd want to
go do stuff with our friends andstuff.
And my husband's like, well,you never want to go out Friday
or Saturday or do anything, andI'm like I'm fucking tired and
so I'm sitting here going wait aminute, I'm the boss.
(19:01):
What if I don't want to workMondays or Fridays or Wednesdays
for that matter?
Maybe those are my thinkingdays and I just do whatever the
fuck I want on those days andmaybe I do a little work, but
it's on my terms and I can tellyou.
It like changed the whole vibeof my business when I just gave
myself permission.
Like who said we have to workon Monday.
Mondays are hard for me.
I absolutely agree.
(19:22):
Who made that rule.
Angie Colee (19:23):
It's fucking stupid , it is bizarre, it is crazy
pants, to think that you have towork five days a week, four
days, like you don't have to doanything.
Cara Steinmann (19:32):
40 hours a week, like why?
Angie Colee (19:33):
is lunch at noon.
No, noon is nap time for AngieLike and I get you on peopled
out.
It's funny, Like, okay.
So here's a little bit ofbehind the scenes for people who
are fans of the show.
(19:53):
It's not a secret that I batchrecord.
I've got four episodes today.
This is the first, you know.
I have an internal rule formyself that I've never really
articulated out loud before nowI don't cook on podcast days.
Good for you.
I don't.
I go out to eat or I just makemyself a sandwich, like when I
hit stop record on that verylast call.
I'm going to wait for thatvideo to finish rendering, I'm
going to send all of that stuffoff to the editor with my notes
and then I'm going to collapseinto a puddle until tomorrow
(20:15):
morning.
This is taking all of my energytoday to be able to connect
with people.
And it's so funny because, likewe're sitting here with a
couple of screens in between us,right, you would think that
this isn't as much of a drain asbeing in a noisy environment,
like you talked about.
But I don't know.
To me this is just and I don'twant to say that I don't mean
that in a bad sense it's just asdraining as being around a
whole bunch of people, but likeit takes a lot of energy to
(20:37):
connect with people.
Cara Steinmann (20:38):
It does.
It does.
It takes a lot of and it'seasier for some people than
others, but it still andespecially if you're really
highly empathetic, right, likeyou're picking up on cues, and I
think I don't know if this is aneurodivergent thing like an
ADHD thing, but we're a littlemore vigilant.
I think we've had to learn tobe a little more vigilant and
that changed our biology, ournervous system, and made us more
(21:02):
neurodivergent.
Maybe it's just we're always onthe lookout, watching signs and
cues, and it's maybe either westarted out really highly
empathetic or it's made us morehighly empathetic.
But it is energy, not thatthat's a bad thing.
I choose to give my energy tocertain things, right, but that
doesn't mean you don't have tofill it back up again.
Angie Colee (21:19):
Yes, absolutely have to fill it back up and to
expect yourself to go, go, goall the time, without ever
taking time to refill your cup,and I know that that's kind of
like a cliche thing but, like somany of us, are out here trying
to give to other people from anempty cup Like come on, come on
.
You deserve the same love andcare that you would give someone
that you love and respect.
Cara Steinmann (21:40):
Naps are amazing , Like I think everybody should
nap.
I think was it yesterday or theday before.
I took a two and a half hournap.
I was tired, Delightful.
Also, who says it's 20 minutes?
Who says you have to take a 20minute nap?
I'm sure there's somebiochemistry.
Whatever person out there who'sgoing to tell me it's going to
sap you, but I felt really goodafter two and a half hours.
Angie Colee (21:59):
Oh, yeah, Well, and I mean most of the time I take
like a 20 to 30 minute power nap, but sometimes when that alarm
goes off, the body goes nope,need more.
Okay, cool, I respect my bodyand my internal signals enough
to give my body the rest that itneeds.
Like that actually happenedseveral weeks ago I think I
don't know if I mentioned itbefore I actually had a day
(22:24):
where I had to cancel all of mypodcast recordings because at
some point in the night when Iwas sleeping, I managed to pinch
a nerve in my shoulder and Idon't know if you've ever had
that Like.
It's an extreme, it's aradiating kind of pain, it's a
no position is comfortable and Iknow that there are much more
painful injuries out there likethat, but nerve pain is just, oh
it sucks.
I didn't sleep well that night.
I woke up the next morning.
I'm still in pain and I justreached out to everybody and was
(22:46):
like you know what I reallyhate to do this at the last
minute, but I can't record today.
I'm just I'm going to besitting here grimacing every
time I move wrong and it's notgoing to be that like distracted
and in pain is not the energy Iwant to bring to the show.
So can we please reschedule?
Every single one of them was alovely person, going absolutely
Like if you can't show up, 100%go rest.
Cara Steinmann (23:06):
I guarantee you half of them were like, oh good,
I was having a tough day tooand I didn't feel like it.
My girlfriend and I have a jokeabout that.
Because you know howschadenfreude is, like the
finding joy in someone else'smisery, we coined the phrase
abwesenfreude, which is likeabwesen is abandon, like the joy
of being abandoned on, likewhen someone flakes on a Zoom
call or something and you'relike, oh God, I really wanted a
(23:28):
nap.
I'm so happy I got abandonedtoday.
Angie Colee (23:30):
Yes, that's actually happened a couple of
times.
I wasn't as annoyed as I wouldnormally be by somebody who
stands me up for a podcastrecording, because I was like,
oh God, I'm tired, yes, I'mgoing to go take a nap now.
Yeah, exactly.
Well, now that we've followedevery shiny thread under the sun
, let's get back to yourbusiness, right?
So you got into coaching andyou mentioned a little bit
earlier about building abusiness that you hated.
(23:52):
Tell me a little bit aboutgetting into that and what
discovering you hated.
Cara Steinmann (23:56):
It was like oh, so I started doing well.
So I used to love to write andI kind of got into content
marketing and digital marketingarea.
Through that.
I was writing fitness contentfor a lot of years and it was
really easy because I knew a lotof.
I was a fitness trainer in apast life and I it was easy to
write about and I cared aboutwomen's fitness and blah, blah,
blah and so that.
But you know, as a curiousperson, that led to learning
(24:17):
about SEO and learning about adsand learning all the things
working for a couple of agenciesand pretty soon I knew how to
do a lot of things, but thatdidn't necessarily mean that I
was really well-suited to themor good at them.
But I really hated working forother people.
I was.
I'm not a good employee.
I'm too entrepreneurial.
I want my freedom.
I want to make my own decisionsand strategize in a way that
makes sense to me.
(24:38):
So finally, in 2017, after or2018, after going to work for
several other people, I createdmy own LLC and went back to work
for myself writing, doingcontent, strategy and marketing
for companies, small businessesand then after about two, two,
three years, it was like rightin the beginning of the pandemic
.
I was like I hate that, I'mmiserable.
(24:58):
I had my clients were allmiserable.
I hated all my clients Ishouldn't say hated them.
Some of the people were reallynice but I wasn't like really
well suited to it for I was justmiserable.
I found myself not like hopingclients wouldn't sign the
contract and I'm like this isn'tgood.
I'm making money but I don'twant more like clients, what is
happening here?
(25:18):
And I didn't honestly know whatwas going on at first.
I just knew that for somereason I was not loving what I
was doing and I wasn't killingit Like I was.
I was keeping my head abovewater.
But I would say I was in myzone of competency not my zone
of excellence and certainly notmy zone of genius and I didn't
know what it was.
So I was like, okay, I I spentlike six months pared down all
(25:41):
my clients lived on savings,tried to figure out what the
hell was going on with me, andit's still.
It's been a long journeybecause I'm still not exactly
sure where it's going.
And it's taken me this long toreally lean into the coaching
moniker because there are somany coaches out there and
because it's a little saturated.
It feels a little bit like,well, anyone can call themselves
a coach, right, but I have beencoaching people this whole time
(26:02):
who I'm kind of like a comealong, let's go, come with me,
let's figure this out togethertype of person, and so I tend to
share any of the knowledge thatI have and it just it's turned
into a business that is veryexperimental.
I'm I've got my RavelCollective, which is the
community, online, and I love it, and it's all about referrals
(26:23):
and networking.
Like we say, come for the comefor the referral, stay for the
friendships.
It's.
It's a very like people firstkind of kind of space and it's
safe.
So everybody feels really goodbeing themselves and yeah, I
mean, I don't really know whatelse you want to know I'm.
I'm just I'm so passionateabout bringing women together
because we've been pittedagainst each other in society
(26:44):
and because we're we're alllooking at each other on the
outside of this glossy facadethat we're putting on and seeing
that it looks like everybody'sgot their shit together and God
forbid like we don't know whatwe're doing and when you get
like you get a bunch of women ina room who are, by any standard
, even remotely successful, theystill feel like they don't know
what the fuck they're doing.
(27:05):
We all and I feel like some ofthat is because we're so we try,
we're focused on personaldevelopment and self-awareness
and we're aware that we'realways growing and changing and,
like my business doesn't looktoday like it did a year ago or
two years ago and it's going tobe different in five years.
And there's no like end pointwhere we sit down and say, well,
I figured it out, I havearrived and now I am a success.
Angie Colee (27:30):
That's just not how it works right, there's always
another finish line to cross,and I'm fond of reminding people
if you've got this mindsetright, and it's sneaky because
it just sits there as a beliefuntil you articulate it out loud
and realize that you're kind ofbeing ridiculous.
But, like I'm going to, I'mgoing to find that finish line
(27:51):
that crosses me into happy landand then I can coast until the
end of time.
And, my friends, the finishline is is the final finish line
.
It's the one that you don'tcome back from, the one that we
don't know what happens next.
Right, like, so you got topractice putting a couple,
couple extra lines between youand the final finish line and
like, cross this one and behappy for a little bit and then
(28:12):
remember oh yeah, there'sanother one over there, okay,
here we go, I think.
Cara Steinmann (28:16):
I think for me it's more about like impact,
like what's the impact that Ican make with the work that I'm
doing today and tomorrow and thenext day?
And, like you know, I feel likewhen you're just doing what
you're built to do, it doesn'tfeel like work and the money
just comes because you are thebest at what you're doing.
Like nobody's going to come tothe table with the same gifts
and talents and experience andpassions that you are.
(28:37):
There's just no way.
I mean there's in just in theClifton top five, there's like
one in 34, almost 34 millionchance someone will have the
same top five as you.
That's not even counting the 34.
And we use them all indifferent degrees and different
intensities.
And I think I think we did themath and it was like like maybe
(28:58):
20 people in the entire worldwill have the same 34 strengths
in the same order, and that'sjust one assessment.
Yeah, like you're, there's no I.
I just I take issue with womenbeing in competition with with
each other in that way, likethere's room for everybody.
We can all.
I love networking with people,with other coaches, with other
(29:20):
people who do what it looks likeI do because they're not doing
it exactly the same way and noteverybody's meant to be in my
community, and I love being ableto refer people who are a
better fit for someone else'scommunity or for some other
coach Like absolutely I.
Angie Colee (29:34):
Actually I had an experience with that exact same
thing yesterday on a differentnetworking call.
I had been working on thisoffer for a while where I
combined like the interviewskills I've developed as a
podcast host and runningmarketing teams and stuff like
that to help pull people'sreally awesome stories out, the
stuff that they don't think isreally great marketing content,
(29:54):
and turn it into marketing.
And so I'd been working on thisoffer and trying to find the
right language around it and theright people for it and the
right structure for it.
Like this has been a nine monthjourney.
And then I'm on a callyesterday with somebody who does
pretty much the exact sameprocess as me and she's got it
all neatly lined out on herwebsite and it's all the right
language and I was like Jesus.
(30:15):
I had a moment where I was likethis freaking sucks, somebody's
already doing it.
And then I came back to myselfand went all right, no, you're a
marketer.
She's got this whole angle,which is really cool, because
not many people would suspectthat I'm a spa person, but I'm
totally like, put me in one ofthose European style spas where
I can hop from amenity toamenity all day long Angie's
happy spot, but anyway, likeshe's got this whole spa
(30:37):
aesthetic as part of herbranding and like a cold plunge
option and stuff like that.
And so I actually found myselfmessaging her and going, hey,
you know, I don't know if youremember me, but I would love to
reconnect.
I love everything that you'redoing and I actually like I was
checking it out and reading itand I was in awe because I'm
actually doing something reallysimilar.
If you're open to it, could Iask you a couple of questions
(30:57):
about your process and whatyou're learning about all of
this?
Like, I'm really curious aboutthis and the cool thing about it
is the front-facing brands.
Right, you're listening toPermission to Kick Ass.
You know what the fuck I soundlike?
Right, I don't sound like a spagoer, even though I like being
in the spa.
I sound like somebody who kicksdown the door and sets
something on fire.
So there's room for both of usto do the exact same thing,
(31:20):
because different people aregoing to get different things
out of working with each of usand there could conceivably be
somebody that works with both ofus, because they get value from
that.
Cara Steinmann (31:29):
Exactly, and there's.
You couldn't have said itbetter.
It's so true.
And this is exactly why we haveto show up as our own, like
authenticity I think.
Sometimes I'll say likeauthenticity is one of my core
values freedom, authenticity andconnection.
And a lot of people are tiredof the word authenticity.
They think it's like a buzzword.
But let me tell you, if youdon't act authentic, you're
(31:50):
gonna know and it's gonna be aproblem.
And if we all show up asourselves, it's really easy to
tell who you wanna gravitatetowards.
Like you can find your people.
One of the biggest problems withwomen entrepreneurs is we're
fucking lonely.
It's hard to build strongrelationships remotely.
A lot of us have kids.
It's hard to build strongrelationships remotely.
A lot of us have kids.
A lot of us have other stuffgoing on that kind of pulls us
away.
In the evenings we're not goingout to networking events.
(32:12):
It's difficult sometimes tobuild these relationships that
really can carry us through andhelp support us in our business.
And having a bunch of womenrally around you and support you
, it feels amazing.
And if you show up as yourselfand you let people see the real
you, it feels amazing.
And if you show up as yourselfand you let people see the real
you, they're going to eithergravitate towards you or away.
They're not going to just staystagnant.
It's either coming towards youor away from you, and we don't
(32:35):
want the people away from us.
They need to go somewhere elseand deal with other people.
I don't care if somebodydoesn't like me.
Maybe 10 years ago I would havecared.
I probably cared 10 years ago,but now I see the value in
relaxing, being who I am,knowing who that is and letting
people who appreciate that comecloser.
Angie Colee (32:55):
Oh yes, I think that perspective for me changed
when I realized, like I don'teven know how it happened, but
it just was one of those momentswhere it all clicked into place
.
Do I want to know 8 billionpeople and have all of them like
me?
Absolutely not.
I don't even have space forlike the several hundred to a
couple thousand I already know.
I can't keep in touch with allof those people regularly.
(33:17):
So, like, if you're coming intomy circle, into my world and
being like you need to changewho you are for me to be
comfortable here, I go cool, gobe comfortable somewhere else.
Totally, yeah, I'm not changing.
Cara Steinmann (33:28):
I don't want to know all I don't there's.
We can't.
We can't be close to that manypeople and it's really about the
depth of a relationship.
We cannot be close andsupportive and really know and
care about that many people.
I think 150 is the number.
I forget the guy's name.
I used to know it, but it'sjust not possible and for some
(33:49):
people maybe they can carry morepeople in their head.
I tend to be able to carry moreinformation and detail about a
lot of people in my head, butI'm not super close to all of
those people.
Angie Colee (34:02):
And I wouldn't want to be.
I wouldn't want to be eitherand, like the nature of ADHD too
is like a lot of info,overwhelm, a lot of hyper
fixation.
And then the funny way my brainworks, which I've discovered a
lot of other people have asimilar way of doing things.
It's like if I thought aboutyou and I went oh Kara, she's
such an awesome person, my brainfiles that under just talk to
(34:22):
Kara.
And I can go for like five, 10years that way over here in my
own world doing my own thing,thinking awesome thoughts about
you, talking awesome shit aboutyou behind your back to other
people.
Yeah, Not actually talking toyou not actually registering
that I'm not talking to you, andthat's how I know that I can
pick up the phone after fiveyears and talk to somebody like
(34:44):
no time has passed, Because inmy brain it hasn't.
I've been over here thinkingawesome stuff about you the
entire time instead of going.
Why haven't I heard from her?
Oh, my God and that's not todisparage anybody that thinks
like that, it's just you know,you've got your life, I've got
my life.
We're all busy trying to do thebest that we can.
So trying to do the best thatwe can.
So I'd rather just assume thatyou're out there going.
It's been a while since Italked to Angie.
(35:05):
I hope she's okay and then yougo about your life and it's fine
.
We'll talk when we talk.
Cara Steinmann (35:09):
Yeah, see, I have.
I have this.
I have input at my number twoin Clifton.
So I tend to like collectinformation and I'm like a, my
brain's like a Google, like I'mfiling things away and I'm
collecting things.
But because of my number onebeing connectedness, I tend to
collect people and informationabout people.
So when that happens to me andI think, oh, angie, I wonder how
(35:30):
she's doing, it'll be because Iran into a piece of information
that reminded me of you and soI'll send you that information,
or something like theimpulsiveness that comes with
the ADHD thing, I think, worksout really well for me in that
way, because I'll just reach outand be like, hey, I found this
article, I thought you mightlike it, and you're like, oh my
gosh, she was thinking about me,is?
Angie Colee (35:47):
that like pebbling, but for networking.
That's fantastic.
Cara Steinmann (35:50):
Yeah, yeah, I heard that recently.
Angie Colee (35:52):
Absolutely yeah.
For anybody that's unfamiliarwith that concept, there's the
five love languages of acts ofservice, words of affirmation,
all that stuff.
There's also kind of a longrunning joke, which to me is
fairly accurate, about differentbehaviors for ADHD folks.
One of them is like pebbling,which is this concept that
(36:15):
derives from penguins.
That's like hey, I found thiscool thing.
I'm picking up one of my travelcoins and showing it on the.
I found this cool thing and Ithought you might like it here.
Here's the thing.
I'm giving it to you.
Cara Steinmann (36:22):
When your text messages consist of nothing but
memes to your friends.
I saw this and I thought of you.
Memes are my love language.
Angie Colee (36:29):
Oh, absolutely, and I love it when people get it so
like I'm getting to a point.
I actually had somebody thatrecorded with me last week that
was like and now that we'vetaken about eight shiny loops
and I was like I honestlysuspect that everybody that
listens to the show is also veryADHD and this is just like it's
tickling that great spot in thebrain.
Cara Steinmann (36:48):
That goes, yes, it goes down the rabbit hole and
goes.
Well, that's another thing Iused to really be hard on myself
about was the rabbit hole thing.
I would get lost in informationand go I'd end up somewhere
completely different.
Just by one Google search thatI was curious about, and pretty
soon I'm at the library readingseven well, barnes and Nobles,
probably buying like sevendifferent books to like study
about this thing, and thencompletely going somewhere else
(37:10):
with it and I'm like man, I'm sorandom, but it's not random,
and sometimes you find reallyamazing things when you're not
so structured.
And so I've come to reallyappreciate, just like letting
myself have time to do that,like maybe my brain needs that.
Angie Colee (37:29):
That's always been my definition of creativity and
that's probably why I seecreativity as different from
kind of mainstream traditionaldefinitions of it.
A lot of folks put creativityinto a bucket or a box, and
creativity creativity, on onehand loves boxes but also hate.
Is Schrodinger's creativity.
Do we love the box?
Do we hate the box?
We don't know.
But to me creativity is beingable to see a connection between
(37:51):
two things.
That is not immediately obviousand I've done exercises like
this at my own retreats to likefind me a connection between a
lamp and a lock, and people arelike, oh, there's like that
brief couple seconds of shortcircuit before they start going
in.
Oh, there's metal pieces,there's something that turns and
maybe clicks Like you mightfind both, and then the creative
(38:13):
ideas start.
You might find both of these ata storage facility.
Right, that's creativity isfinding connections.
And there are creativeaccountants, there are creative
mechanics, there are creativemechanics, there are creative
artists.
Like.
Everybody has this potential tobe creative.
If you allow yourself to be andstop putting these judgments on
yourself for being random, weall get to be random.
Cara Steinmann (38:35):
I like to think about how creative entrepreneurs
are just in the fact that theyare entrepreneurs, like we are
creating something out of thinair that didn't exist before.
This business, this offer, thispodcast, like this did not
exist before, and now it haslife and legs and we created
that out of our mind.
Angie Colee (38:53):
Like that's just blows me away all the time I get
sucked into those loops, Likejust every once in a while I
have that thought and I've saidit several times on the show,
but like it bears repeating.
Do you know how many billionsupon billions upon billions of
things had to happen just so forus to be here right now having
this conversation?
If somebody turns left insteadof right, maybe your parents
(39:19):
didn't meet and one of usdoesn't exist.
Cara Steinmann (39:26):
Crazy amounts of shit had to line up for this to
happen, and every once in awhile when that thought pops
into my head, I just go, oh andwonder how crazy is this big old
planet?
Sometimes I get a lot of.
I don't do a lot of likeoutreach anymore, but a lot of
people introduce other people tome and so I'm like what if that
person hadn't thought of that?
Or what if I hadn't said aparticular thing in a
conversation that made themthink they should introduce that
person?
And sometimes it ends up beingsuch an amazing relationship and
(39:47):
connection and I'm like man, Ididn't, I had nothing to do with
that, that just showed up on mydoorstep somehow.
It's magic.
Angie Colee (39:56):
Yeah, one of my friends talks about that.
It's like.
She calls it the concept ofsurrender and I like I like
thinking of it as the concept ofallow, like just allow things
to happen, don't placeartificial constraints and
restrictions on things.
It's an experiment.
I actually wrote that downearlier at the beginning,
(40:17):
because you mentioned that youwere experimenting a lot and I
was like that's what I likeabout problem solving If we can
detach ourselves from theoutcomes and just get curious,
then that opens up a lot ofspace for us to go.
I wonder what happens if andthen we just get to experiment
instead of going.
I'm a failure.
All these things I tried failedNewsflash.
Every single entrepreneur everin the history of mankind has
(40:38):
failed much, much more thanthey've succeeded.
Cara Steinmann (40:41):
One of my favorite graphics is that X Y
axis with the straight line thatgoes up to the corner the
outside corner and it sayswhat's what people think
entrepreneurial success lookslike.
Right, and then the next one iswhat it actually looks like and
it's like the line goes up andthen it squiggles around and
goes 10 different hundred orthousands of different
directions in this tiny biggiant knot and then at the end
(41:02):
it's finally like up in thecorner and it's that's very much
what it feels like.
But the reframe that I'veadopted on this is what you said
the experimenting.
It was years and years ago agirlfriend of mine sent me a
podcast about experimenting, whywe should all experiment more,
and I was like, okay, I'lllisten to this and again like,
why did she send it to me?
But it completely changed myoutlook on the way that I.
(41:24):
I again like, why did she sendit to me?
But it completely changed myoutlook on the way that I I
create offerings, the way that Isell stuff, everything in my
business I look at as anexperiment now, cause I also
don't want to.
I don't want to spend six weeksplanning a launch for a product
or some kind of course or somekind of something, and then find
out, like what if it does sell?
And I hate it, I hate doing it.
So I'm a big fan of taking likesmall imperfect steps all the
(41:46):
time, constantly and just seeinglike how did that feel to me?
Not, how does that look or howshould that feel, because
there's a lot of information outthere about what our businesses
should look like and how weshould be creating offers and
marketing them and everythinglike that.
But like really checking inwith myself, how does this feel
with me and the way that I wantto live and operate and do I
(42:07):
want to do this again?
Did people respond to it?
Did I enjoy doing it?
Should?
I do it again.
I mean, that's kind of how theretreat went in April that I'd
never thrown a retreat beforeand I wasn't really even sure I
was going to enjoy it, because Iget people out.
You know, honestly, it was thefirst time I've ever gone
anywhere with a group of peopleand not needed to sleep for a
week.
When I got home I was so jazzedwhen I got home we just had the
(42:28):
best time.
Somebody I was joking tosomebody about it that was there
and there were eight of usthere at this in San Diego at
this women's mastermind retreatand we just wanted to be cozy
and comfy the whole time.
I didn't wear any of the fancyclothes I brought.
I mean, fancy for me is notvery fancy anyway but I joked
with somebody the last day.
I was like I should have justcalled this the pajama party
mastermind and somebody's like Iwould have signed up
immediately, instantly.
Angie Colee (42:50):
Yes, instantly yes.
And that's just further proofthat, like, there's more than
enough room for all of us.
Because I remember when I hadmy first retreat idea, it was
tied to this idea of I traveleda lot as a digital nomad.
It was tied to this idea of Itraveled a lot as a digital
nomad and the beauty of doingthat by myself meant that I got
to try a bunch of things and go,okay, I've never done this
before, let's see what happens.
(43:11):
And so one of these crazy ideasI got was I wonder if I could
get, I wonder if I could havesome sort of business event
where we drove bulldozers and Idon't know exactly what the
connection is yet, but it feelslike there's something there
about driving a big, scarymachine and then like working on
your business and a whole bunchof white space, cause I hate
going to business conferenceswhere there's like 40 speakers
and I'm expected to make senseof all this information.
(43:32):
Nope, it's not going to happen.
I'm going to enjoy absorbing itwhile I'm there and I'm going
to promptly yeet it out thewindow as soon as I'm back home.
No-transcript.
And people were immediately in,just like.
(43:53):
Sometimes the idea is sopowerful that people are like,
yes, and they're alsoexperimenting.
I'm going to go, let's see whathappens.
Cara Steinmann (43:59):
That's what happens when you experiment and
when you come from a place oflike, genuinely, what do I like?
That's kind of where it comesfrom for me, Not kind of.
It is like I wanted amastermind retreat where I could
just go chill out.
I wanted to go on vacation witha bunch of my business besties,
because I've got like four bestfriends from high school and
they're all gainfully employedAttorneys, nurses.
I love them.
They're amazing.
But when we go on our yearlygetaway, our golden girls
(44:21):
getaway together, we don't talkabout my I don't.
I don't get to talk about mybusiness or think about it for
like five days because we'retalking about our kids and we're
talking about things that weall have in common and old times
and good times and blah, blah,blah.
But it's a totally differentexperiment experience when you
get to go away with a bunch ofwomen who have the same identity
that you have as anentrepreneur.
(44:49):
And you get to sit and talkabout your leadership skills and
your fears and your concernsand your wins and your losses.
I mean, all of us cried at leastonce, like tears were shed in a
good way.
And it was actually funnybecause at one point I had part
of it catered and this guy keptcoming in the room to clean up
and one of the women was talkingabout some personal kind of
stuff and she was teary and therest of us were kind of like you
know, tearing up with her and Ikept looking over at this guy,
like get the fuck out of here,like get your penis out of here.
(45:15):
What are you doing in here?
Like so, so again, that was anexperiment and I've decided that
the next one I'm going to hostit in the hospitality suite, the
whole thing in the hospitalitysuite, so that I don't have to
be, we don't have to beinterrupted.
Like I learned something thefirst time so that I can carry
that into the next time and makeit even better.
But it's, it's just, it'spowerful to be in in company, in
collaboration with women, and Ijust am so in awe every time I
(45:38):
turn around the women that I'vebeen able to connect with and
bring together are workingtogether, building businesses
together, like promoting eachother, buying each other's books
and telling everybody about it.
It's like it's wild and I justdon't think you see that
everywhere.
Angie Colee (45:53):
You really don't, and I love that you're on this
mission to help people justconnect, collaborate, realize
that we're not in competition.
I like to tell people we arenot competing for a slice of pie
.
We get to make all kinds ofdifferent pie a huge pie, a
Guinness world record recordbreaking pie, a pizza pie.
It doesn't have to be fruitypie or chocolate pie or whatever
(46:15):
.
Have I said pie enough in thelast 30 seconds?
Cara Steinmann (46:18):
I want to read you my favorite quote speaking
of which, so I actually put this.
I had this little book made,this little Denick notebook made
for the retreat, and on theinside cover I put my favorite
quote as of late.
It's Abby Wambach and she saysmaintaining the illusion of
scarcity is how power keepswomen competing for the singular
seat at the old table insteadof uniting and building a new,
(46:38):
bigger table.
Yes, and that's just like.
I just love that because it'ssuch an illusion of scarcity.
Angie Colee (46:46):
Yeah, there's plenty for everybody and you
don't have to buy into it.
The beauty of reality is it'snot real.
It's all made up and the pointsdon't matter, and if you don't
like your current reality, youcan make another one, and it's a
super success hack to know thatwomen in collaboration makes
business easier, Like when youget when.
Cara Steinmann (47:03):
When someone knows you really well and they
like you, they're gonna referyou.
If they know what you do andyou do something really well,
they're gonna talk about you totheir friends.
It's what we do.
We lift each other up, we bragabout each other and we can't
help it.
It's just how we are.
Yes, man.
Angie Colee (47:18):
I wanna keep going for like two more hours, but I
just realized we had time.
So, speaking of all the womenthat you collaborate with and
you help uplift, tell us moreabout your work and where we can
learn about you.
Cara Steinmann (47:34):
Yeah, so I have a website ravelcollectivecom is
the online community and then Ihost some masterminds.
I'm actually in the middle of akind of rework of my website to
include, because themasterminds were kind of on the
down low for a little bit.
But you can learn about theretreats on the Ravel website.
And then I love to connect withpeople on LinkedIn, where you
can also find my personalwebsite, karasteinmancom and by
the time this airs, I think thewebsite probably will be up to
date and that's where you canfind all the coaching,
(47:54):
information and just ways toconnect with me and become part
of the community.
I love that.
Angie Colee (48:00):
I love that.
I'll make sure that there areclickable links in the show
notes, along with all theresources that we mentioned.
Thank you so much for being anawesome guest.
I really appreciate you.
Cara Steinmann (48:08):
Thank you for having me on.
I love this conversation somuch.
Angie Colee (48:13):
That's all for now.
If you want to keep thatkick-ass energy high, please
take a minute to share thisepisode with someone that might
need a high-octane dose of youCan Do it.
Don't forget to rate, reviewand subscribe to the Permission
to Kick Ass podcast on ApplePodcasts, spotify and wherever
you stream your podcasts.
I'm your host, angie Coley, andI'm here rooting for you.
Thanks for listening and let'sgo kick some ass.
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