December 13, 2024 • 46 mins
Unlock the secrets of sustainable agriculture with us as we welcome Dr. Carl Motsenbocker from Louisiana State University. Discover how his work in local foods and sustainable farming is reshaping horticultural education and community connections. We'll guide you through the discussions at the 2024 American Society for Horticultural Science Annual Conference, where we gained insights into the shift from large-scale farming to small-scale environmentally conscious agricultural practices.
As we explore the world of sustainable small-scale farming in Louisiana, Carl shares stories from his experiences teaching vegetable crops and organic gardening. These real-world classes aren't just about growing food; they’re a platform for engaging young people in practical, hands-on learning and community projects. The landscape is changing, and new farmers are stepping up with a fresh, environmentally conscious approach, bridging the gap in the local food supply and revitalizing local agriculture.
Learn about farm-to-school programs, which are transforming how food is grown, taught, and consumed in schools across Louisiana. From the initial USDA Farm to School Conference grant in 2013 to the comprehensive program we see today, these initiatives are growing food at schools, integrating curricula, and sourcing local produce. By adapting educational resources for dynamic learning methods, we're reaching younger audiences and supporting farm-to-school efforts with the Seeds to Success program, ensuring a sustainable future for generations to come.
More about Dr. Motsenbocker and Seeds to Success:
https://www.lsuagcenter.com/profiles/cmotsenbocker
https://seedstosuccess.com/
Learn more about the American Society for Horticultural Science (ASHS) at https://ashs.org/.
HortTechnology, HortScience and the Journal of the American Society for Horticultural Science are all open-access and peer-reviewed journals, published by the American Society of Horticultural Science (ASHS). Find them at journals.ashs.org.
Consider becoming an ASHS member at https://ashs.org/page/Becomeamember!
You can also find the official webpage for Plants, People, Science at ashs.org/plantspeoplesciencepodcast, and we encourage you to send us feedback or suggestions at https://ashs.org/webinarpodcastsuggestion.
Podcast transcripts are available at https://plantspeoplescience.buzzsprout.com.
On LinkedIn find Sam Humphrey at linkedin.com/in/samson-humphrey. Curt Rom is at https://www.linkedin.com/in/curt-rom-611085134/. Lena Wilson is at https://www.linkedin.com/in/lena-wilson-2531a5141/.
Thank you for listening!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Curt Rom (00:14):
Welcome to Plants, people Science, a podcast of the
American Society forHorticultural Science where we
talk about all thingshorticulture Cu I'm , professor
at the University of Arkansas,and I'm joined today by our
co-host, amson Humphrey.
Hey Sam, how are you doing?
Sam Humphrey (00:32):
I'm doing great, urt.
We are here at the AmericanSociety for Horticultural
Science Annual Conference andthis is our first live episode
in two years.
Thank you, everyone in theaudience for coming.
Could you introduce the podcastand what we do?
Curt Rom (00:49):
Well, tpodcast is interesting.
It's actually something thatone of the programs at ASHS.
We like to feature ASHS memberswho do amazing things amazing
things in their laboratory, thefield or the classroom the
amazing things in theirlaboratory, the field or the
classroom.
We tend to have topics that area really broad audience.
We like to reach out and letpeople know about horticultural
(01:11):
science.
We have a podcast team.
I know we are the two voices,Sam and I, but we have a team
behind the scenes.
So we've got a research team.
We have a planning team thathelps us pick the topics, a
research team that researchesthose topics, and then we have a
(01:32):
production team that producesthe podcast.
We do about four or five a year, although this year I think
we're going to have about eight,but the idea is to tell neat
stories about how coolhorticulture is and how amazing
horticulture science is.
So, Sam, tell us a little bitmore about you.
Sam Humphrey (01:52):
Curt, I have just started my PhD program at the
University of Tennessee,Knoxville.
I don't think we've actuallyhad an episode since I've
started there.
It's going really well and I'mfinding all sorts of wonderful
research ideas here, listeningto talks at ASHS and planning my
PhD research.
So I'm doing well.
I do culinary herb research andI'm happy to be here Well great
(02:17):
.
Curt Rom (02:17):
I forgot to tell you congratulations on your master's
degree.
That was big.
I really enjoyed listening toyour seminar and your
presentation for your defense.
But congratulations on that.
Congratulations on yourappointment in Tennessee.
I look forward to seeing thework that you're going to do on
your dissertation.
You've been having a goodconference.
Sam Humphrey (02:36):
So far I have.
I've seen you talk, I thinkthree times, and it's been
amazing each time.
I've attended a few workshops,I've attended many different
lectures by students.
It's really exciting also tosee everyone talking to each
other, making connections,seeing the older generations of
horticulturalists and theirstudents and their students'
(02:57):
students all talking together.
What about you, Curt?
What have you enjoyed here?
Curt Rom (03:06):
Well, you know I've been this is my 45th year coming
to ASHS meetings and you know Ireally enjoy the science.
But I think now, at this stageof my career, what I really like
are the friendships thescientific and the academic
friendships I've made thecolleagues.
It's to me a little bit like afamily reunion when we all get
together we catch up, we aresharing what we're doing and
(03:29):
what's exciting us.
But I've been enjoying that andI've been enjoying.
I've heard some really goodpresentations and I saw some
good posters and I was impressedwith the qualities of the
graduate student science thatI've seen.
So there's good science beingdone and the fun is always in
the hallway and the networking.
Sam Humphrey (03:48):
That's true, and there are so many diverse topics
being covered as well, so manydifferent fields that I haven't
been a part of but that I'mlearning about just by being
here and having conversationslike the conversation we're
about to have today.
Curt Rom (04:02):
You know when I say our friends long-time friends
and colleagues that we developedthrough the ASHS.
That's our guest today.
Our guest today is Dr CarlMotsenbocker from Louisiana
State University.
Carl and I have been associatedbecause we have similar
interests and we have taughtsimilar classes and done similar
(04:24):
research for a while.
So let's get into today's topic, what I thought we would talk
about today.
We've got one of the ASHSexperts on local foods and food
systems Again, Dr CarlMotsenbocker.
Carl Motsenbocker (04:46):
Welcome, Dr Motsenbacher.
Hello, it's a pleasure to behere today.
Curt Rom (04:51):
How's it going for you ?
Are you having a?
Carl Motsenbocker (04:53):
good meeting.
I'm having a great meeting andthere's just too many different
sessions that I would like to gosee different topics.
So it's exciting for me and toalso meet up with old friends
and see people I haven't seensince last year at this meeting.
Curt Rom (05:09):
Yeah, I feel the same way and I think I've become more
of a generalist as I've uh agedin horticulture.
So I said, Dr moskenbacher, youand I've been friends a long
time.
May I call you Carl for this,of course?
Yes, good, Carl, tell us alittle bit, give us your
background and what you do, andmaybe give us your three-minute
feed.
Carl Motsenbocker (05:29):
Okay, I'll do my best in three minutes.
But I'm a professor ofhorticulture.
I was first hired to teach andto conduct vegetable research,
but now I have kind of expanded.
I have an extension appointmentwith three statewide extension
programs.
We have the Grow LouisianaBeginning Farmer Training
Program, we have the LouisianaFarm to School Program and I am
(05:53):
the SARE PDP the Sustainable AgResearch and Education Co-State
Coordinator.
So those three extensionprograms and then I have a
teaching appointment.
I teach four classes.
Right now I'm actually teachinga vegetable crops class while
I'm not here.
I have good people back homethat are helping me with that
and I teach a sustainableagriculture course and I teach
(06:17):
organic gardening andsustainable crop production
class.
And then I have a LSU andThailand study abroad class.
Curt Rom (06:34):
Yeah, where you and I overlap is I did a lot of work
early on about food systems andlocal foods and sustainable food
production and I got veryinterested in community
gardening, school gardening,farm to school kinds of programs
.
So tell us, you know what'sexciting to you.
I mean, you moved fromvegetable production Louisiana's
got pretty strong commercialvegetable production and that's
growing at scale and all of asudden you have gone to this
(06:56):
different scale.
What motivated you to go fromfocusing on commercial
production to these otheraspects of scale and of a local
food system?
Carl Motsenbocker (07:10):
So that's a good question.
I still remember when I wasteaching my first vegetable
crops class I won't tell you howmany decades ago, but I
realized that it was too late toreach out to college students,
that we need to reach out to theyoung, younger people.
So we started doing servicelearning projects with my
(07:30):
vegetable crops class and thenmy organic gardening class.
They would learn how to gardenand then they would go out in
the community.
You know, learning by doing isbetter because you are actually
understanding more when youteach somebody else.
And so I started doing that andactually I go back.
I was in the after I got myundergraduate degree.
I was working in Thailand and Ihad my first school garden.
(07:51):
I was like 24 years old andtrying to figure out what to
grow and how to sustain that andactually feeding people in a
village, feeding the childrenbecause they didn't have a
school lunch program, so it kindof feeds all the way back and
that's like 40 years ago.
Curt Rom (08:10):
You know that's a very similar journey that I took
when I started working onsustainable and organic
production systems.
That kind of led to foodsystems and then that led to the
components of the food systemthat are smaller scale.
You know, not only backyardgardeners but really gardeners
and farmers in the urban andperi-urban environment and
(08:34):
school gardening.
And, like you, I taught a class, and we'll teach a class,
called community institutionalschool and public gardening,
which kind of focuses onmanagement of that.
So what excites you aboutgardening at that scale or that
component of the food system?
Carl Motsenbocker (08:53):
So for me, when I was teaching my organic
gardening class, I was usingElliot Coleman's book the
Organic Grower, and that isbasically a husband and wife
making a living on five acres,which many people would say
that's impossible, and that was30 years ago.
And then I had some studentsthat had been in my class.
(09:16):
They are farming.
And then they said this is like10 years ago.
Look there's the marketgardener, you got to read this
book ago.
Look there's the marketgardener, you got to read this
book.
His premise is an acre and ahalf for a husband and wife,
like two people to make a goodliving.
And then Elliot Coleman, hescaled down to two and a half
acres now and we have abeginning farmer training
(09:38):
program and we really focus onsmall scale intensive growing
where I think there's a reallygood niche for local food
systems in shortening the foodchain instead of relying on
grocery stores and food comingfrom California and Florida into
our state.
So I think that is what reallyhas been exciting to me.
(09:59):
And then we also bring in myformer students that are farming
.
They come in and say I was inthis class, you know, back 12
years ago, and I'm farming nowand we go visit, there's a
husband and wife.
They have a farm like six milesfrom campus.
So we take the students outthere and they get to see
exactly yeah, you can put thatinto practice and you can do it
(10:20):
and you can enjoy.
It's hard work, but it'sworking outside.
You're your own owner, your ownbusiness.
I think there's really goodvalue in that.
Sam Humphrey (10:32):
That's amazing.
So in this, these few decadesof experience that you've had,
really getting to know thefarmers and being very involved
at a local level, how has yourjob, how has your work, changed
over time?
Your perspective?
I'm just I'm curious about that.
Carl Motsenbocker (10:52):
Well, that is actually an excellent question,
because I started to reflectmore on this, because I have to
determine when I'm going to stepdown, when I'm going to stop
doing this.
And it really has, because Iwas focusing more on commercial
you know, larger scale vegetableproduction and I realized that
(11:14):
not everybody can do that.
You can't borrow the money.
You know land costs are prettyhigh where we are and this is a
model that can work, and so ithas been interesting to be able
to have funding.
Without the funding, I couldn'tdo this, and literally right
now we have five extensionassociates working on these
(11:36):
three extension programs, pluswe have part-time people, and
it's been more of managingpeople.
The hard part for me has beento have to give up control and
trust people and we have reallygood team members we share and
they could literally tell meanything.
You know, and I've learned toget criticism.
(11:59):
I ask my students and they knowthey can tell me.
Well, that lab was horrible.
Curt Rom (12:07):
Students can be really honest and I'm impressed how
often farmers tell me what theydo and I do not know.
Well, I want to go to oneaspect of this.
You teach a course insustainability, several courses
in sustainability, and that'sbeen kind of a focus effort for
you.
Why are these small-scale localfoods?
(12:27):
Why do we consider them as asustainable component of our
food system?
Carl Motsenbocker (12:36):
Well, I guess it relates to what our local
food system is and how we needfarmers.
I mean, we have a dearth offarmers, at least in our state.
In many places, you know, thenumber of farms has been going
down, acreage is going up,there's a lot of debt.
We don't have much support forour horticulture producers.
(12:58):
They don't get a governmentcheck like some of the row crop
farmers do.
So I think in terms ofsustainability in most of these
farmers that are becomingfarmers are most that.
Take my organic gardening class.
They are non-traditionalstudents.
They don't come from farms andthey want more environmental
stewardship.
(13:18):
They want the community and Ifind that that whole group of
young people are very muchdifferent than our older farmers
.
They're willing to share,they're willing to have people
come on their farm and learn andto work with them.
It really excites me to seethis.
They are building community andeven within my class they'll be
(13:40):
out there harvesting plots forour food pantry and they'll be
talking and enjoying just beingoutside, you know, and it's fun
to watch.
Curt Rom (13:50):
You know, with the decline of vegetable production
in Louisiana that you made, Imean, it appears to me then that
these kind of farms are fillinga gap, filling a need and
provide fresh food locally.
And what's the ?
Carl Motsenbocker (14:10):
That's just like the rest of country.
The number of farmer's marketshas increased and that is one of
the avenues that I think youngpeople that are trying their
hand at farming.
It's a good place to practice,a good place to meet the
community, meet buyers andpeople who are buying, see what
people want, what kinds ofquality, what do people need.
(14:32):
So we look at that as just onecomponent.
But New Orleans is a greatmarket for restaurants and I
know some farmers are able tosell fresh local product.
The nice thing is the productis often like a day old and it's
fresh.
It's brought right down to thefarmer's market or to
(14:56):
restaurants.
So there's a great opportunity.
The farm in Baton Rouge,fullness Farm, the two that took
my class she actually got hermaster's with me looking at soil
health on her farm and lookingat three different stages Fresh
ground, ground that they hadworked for like two or three
(15:17):
years, and then ground they'dworked at for five years and
looking at that.
And she was able to help meteach my class for like three
years, you know, and to havethat person in the classroom a
young person, you know, workingwith students, I mean, I'm an
old person, an old white male,and I acknowledge that.
(15:39):
But we have to give the youngan opportunity.
But it'd be difficult for themto be in my space right now with
all that we have going on andto balance, you know, home life
and work.
So but it is exciting.
Curt Rom (15:55):
It's an exciting time to be in local food systems that
you mentioned that kind ofresonated with me is that the
opportunity, because they haveshortened the supply chain from
farmer to the market or to theconsumer, that develop,
delivering fresher produce,which in a lot of cases may mean
(16:18):
higher quality because it to beharvested more mature, and no
product deterioration throughthe supply chain, delivery chain
but, also eliminates somesignificant parts of the cold
chain and so that the energyrequirements might be going down
(16:38):
.
Is that really true too, to?
I mean, if you're delivering it, you're harvesting it on Friday
and delivering it to arestaurant on Saturday to be
consumed Saturday and Sunday.
That's a significant differencein refrigeration from something
that was harvested last weekand then having to be
transported and refrigerated totenner and then held in a
(16:59):
distribution center.
Carl Motsenbocker (17:00):
Right, yeah, I think that is one of the
environmental stewardshipaspects, the sustainability
aspect, shortening the foodchain.
Product is harvested at perhapsbetter quality, you know,
instead of green, maturetomatoes, vine ripened tomatoes,
peak ripeness, peak flavor,delivered, delivered, and they
(17:21):
don't have to be stored as longand the market is closer.
So, yeah, less transportationcosts, less cooling, so all that
kind of fits in into thatparticular system.
Sam Humphrey (17:36):
So you talked a bit about these growers being
hungry for information and evenbeing your graduate students,
becoming your graduate students.
I'm curious if you couldelaborate a bit on your efforts
to meet that need forinformation.
How do you reach out to allthese people and what does that
(17:56):
look like?
Carl Motsenbocker (17:59):
Well, we were fortunate to have a USDA
Beginning Farmer RancherDevelopment Program grant so we
developed Grow Louisiana.
It started in 2019.
We ran it for three years indifferent parts of the state.
At that time we didn't havemany mentors for these
small-scale farms but since thenwe've had a cohort going
(18:20):
through several of them, goingthrough several of them.
But with our program we usuallydo farmer meetups.
We don't usually advertise, welet the farmers advertise and
then we support them gettingtogether with networking.
With the Sustainable AgExtension Program.
(18:40):
We do farmer trainings.
We did a farm tour last year ina town west of us, like four
different farms and you know wehad over 120 people.
Part of that tour is a day-longtour.
So that's kind of theactivities that we have.
But the Grow Louisiana programis a year-long program eight
(19:01):
sessions in the spring, a couplesummer trainings and then eight
in the fall.
So we're actually in our sixthfall training.
We have a couple more and thenthere's going to be a farmer
meetup.
So this new cohort, along withother farmers that are in that
same vein and we often see themlike we'll do a tour where the
(19:21):
farmer meetup is and thenthey'll be talking and making
you know, connections andsharing ideas.
I think that's where we'rereally seeing more of, instead
of the traditional classroomlearning.
Sam Humphrey (19:41):
Yeah, what sort of information are they hungry for
?
Are there ?
Carl Motsenbocker (19:44):
So I think soils and this is that I'm not
as well versed on, some of thenew like we would say newer
ideas about soil health and howto benefit and ideas about soil
health and how to benefit, and alot of them don't like to use
synthetic fertilizers.
So how do you build up yoursoils?
How do you sustain that?
Another is marketing, andusually when I work with farmers
(20:10):
, marketing is the first topicyou know, unless you have a
market, and also integratinglivestock into horticulture,
because we're seeing more andmore diversified farms where
they have chickens and they'recollecting other livestock
products to use as fertilizer.
Curt Rom (20:28):
So it's kind of going back to the way sustainable
farms used to be 100 years agosustainable farms used to be 100
years ago as part of the foodsystem and the market chain that
(20:49):
these growers might utilize tohelp sell their product.
What's the development inLouisiana like, and in your area
, about farm to school programswhere farmers might sell
directly, or as an individual orthrough a cooperative, to a
school?
Is there much activity in farmschool programs, and have you
been involved in those at all?
Carl Motsenbocker (21:05):
Well, that's a good, very good question,
because I actually have it'skind of a long story, but I'll
tell you.
It may be good to give you anidea how I got into it.
So I was doing service learningprojects at schools and then I
applied for a USDA Farm toSchool Conference grant back in
2013.
We put on a conference in BatonRouge and two other regional
(21:27):
conferences and then I appliedto.
I went to a Farm to SchoolConference in Austin, Texas, and
I had like a two or three weekwindow to apply for a specialty
crops block grant and I wrote asmall grant to do Harvest of the
Month Basically one fruit orvegetable each month and
(21:48):
celebrating that.
And so we did a pilot where wewent to three schools around the
state and we introduced that insourcing local.
So we had to kind of coordinatethat.
And then our Department ofEducation and our Department of
Ag and Forestry they had passeda resolution through our
legislature without any funding,to start a farm to school
(22:10):
program back in 2016.
So the Department of Educationcalled me literally called me on
the phone and said, hey, Carl,you want some money for Duke
Farm School and I called again.
I literally waited for twomonths because I was teaching.
I had all this.
You know we're all working.
(22:30):
It's like, well, how much moneyare you going to give me?
Is it just $20,000, $30,000?
So it actually started in 2017.
And we were getting.
We also applied for USDA Farmto School grants.
We've had several of those.
There was several pots of moneyand most of it goes through the
(22:50):
Department of Education andthen it comes to us.
So we have a conference.
Our conference is next week.
So I was working this morningtrying to meet with some of our
team.
We have a team meeting everyWednesday, so that's how it's
gotten in and you asked about.
So Farm to School has like threetenants to it.
The first we would usuallyconsider is growing food at
(23:13):
school.
It's like school gardens ormaybe aquaponics or growing in
the classroom.
The second would be curriculum,so educational programming,
often about agriculture,nutrition, healthy eating, but
it could be using a garden foran art class, you know, or for a
(23:34):
writing class.
And the third is purchasinglocal.
So procurement is the thirdpiece and our program actually
works in all three pieces ofthat and we have.
We had a full-time person thatwas a school nutrition director.
We brought her on two years ago.
I have a former teacher that'sour curriculum expert.
We have a communicationscoordinator and we have a
(23:59):
program director.
She had worked in extension inTennessee for like seven or
eight years and she's ourprogram director.
And I have a former student ofmine.
She is working like part-time.
She's actually working in allthree of my extension programs
and she helps me teach classes.
So it's a very dynamicsituation for me right now.
(24:23):
But it's been exciting to haveyou know to be working for so
long and be not having muchfunding and then all of a sudden
you know to have funding.
So we put out a series ofsustainable gardening guides for
school and home gardens,basically organic guides.
We had there's like 17 of those.
I'm still working on two orthree.
(24:44):
We have a whole other seriesthat without the USDA funding,
you know my administration wouldnot give me for an extension
associate.
So that's just an example.
Give me for an extensionassociate.
So that's just an example, andwe have harvested them on videos
that we developed.
The one unique thing about thecurriculum is we made sure that
(25:05):
all of the lesson plans are tiedto state standards.
So when I used to go approachschools about doing farm to
school, they said, oh, we'rebusy, we got to teach to the
test, we got to teach to thecurriculum, so these lessons are
tied to the curriculum.
So it's like, oh, I can usethis, you know, and everything
we have is on our website andyou can download that.
(25:26):
We have posters, we haverecipes, we have, you know, a
conversation guide.
How do you, how does the schoolsystem talk to farmers?
How does the farmer talk to theschool system about buying?
We have a whole host ofmaterials that are there, and so
it's been a lot of fun to kindof create this from literally
almost nothing.
Sam Humphrey (25:47):
Wow.
And to get funding and be ableto work on something that's so
impactful, that must be reallyexciting.
I'm so curious about the rangeof students you reach.
You said that maybe by the timestudents are in college, maybe
it's a little bit late and weshould be reaching out to
younger students.
What does that range look liketo you, and how do those
(26:08):
students vary by age?
Carl Motsenbocker (26:19):
So we try to survey and find out who uses our
harvest of the month.
So it's open for people toregister and we give them the
materials and then we try to getthem to respond.
But it's K through 12, sokindergarten through 12th grade.
Our focus is primarily thirdthrough fifth grade, because I
think that's probably the besttime to get kids to be excited
(26:39):
about horticulture, about wheretheir food comes from, about
eating better.
And we recently, about two yearsago, we started with our early
childhood education.
So there's a group and werecently, like I, gave a talk to
a group up in the northern partof the state and we recently,
like I, gave a talk to a groupup in the northern part of the
state and then next week, onSaturday, I'm giving another
(26:59):
just a brief overview of.
You know, this is what ourprogram is and we are developing
curriculum for them to use forthe little kids.
And the other bright spot isLouisiana.
4-h has picked up our programand they're using Harvest of the
Month for their weekly meetingtimes and so it's been
interesting to see that kind ofcome together with us and we
(27:24):
have a pilot of putting togetherfor eight different commodities
, working with 4-H, to kind oftest that out.
So that's been exciting and tohave like my team.
There's like five of us, fiveplus me.
It's been a real blessing tohave them because they are as
(27:45):
excited as me about this.
Curt Rom (27:48):
Yeah, you mentioned that in the classes you teach on
school gardening and communitygardening.
It's a service learning class,and so you have a campus
community garden, didn't I hearyou say that?
And you're growing for yourfood pantry.
Carl Motsenbocker (28:03):
Yes, so that is correct.
I have a 2000 level classorganic gardening and
sustainable crop production anda major component of that is
students will grow using themarket gardening method of a bed
top on four foot centers, 30inches and then 20 feet long,
(28:24):
and then we also grow communitybeds that they will harvest and
give to the LSU food pantry, andthat's part of the service.
So they start from beginning toend, they make their own
transplants, they do their owndirect seeding and we also have
them transplant and direct seedstaff on your campus.
Curt Rom (28:42):
That's a really wonderful thing.
So, learning while serving whata novel idea, great class.
Carl Motsenbocker (29:04):
Yeah, it's a lot of fun and I think the major
clientele group is probablygraduate students, international
graduate students that may nothave as much funds and right now
I'm teaching my 4,000-levelvegetable crops class and they
don't have individual plots,they're just going to be growing
for the food pantry and theyselect out of a hat if it's
(29:27):
going to be a transplant and adirect seeded crop and they have
to spend the semester growingthat.
So that's kind of a fun thingfor us.
Sam Humphrey (29:38):
Do you have any stories about students who have
done that and really enjoyed it?
Carl Motsenbocker (29:43):
Yeah, I actually I'm giving a talk on
Friday on this.
Well, actually I gave oneyesterday, but some of the
quotes so I know.
I had one last fall.
They said I lost weight, I atebetter and I didn't have to go
to the grocery store as much youknow.
(30:05):
And one was like you know, wecan do this, it's not that hard.
I mean, that's what a lot ofthem they realize.
It isn't that difficult.
As long as your soil is good,your conditions and you have all
the equipment, it actually isnot that hard a thing to do.
Curt Rom (30:22):
So you said you've already given a paper at the
conference and you're going togive another one.
Tell us what are your twopapers, your presentations
you're making.
Carl Motsenbocker (30:31):
So the first one was in the educational, the
teaching, section yesterday andit was about my organic
gardening class and growing foodfor the LSU Food Pantry and we
brought in like 2,400 pounds offresh product over the semester
and then into the spring,because we usually have carrots
(30:51):
and cabbage that's still left.
And then on Friday, in thelocal food systems section, I'm
giving a talk about harvest ofthe month but about the videos
that we have developed and howmany views we've had.
And also we have developed aseries of videos, horticulture
videos, like three to fiveminutes long for the teachers,
(31:13):
because the teachers are like,okay, it's August, what do we
plan?
So we give like an overview ofthe fall semester and then you
know how do you make transplants, how do you direct seed?
We have a series of eight andwe're still making them.
The best one probably was endedthe spring semester.
What do you do with your garden?
(31:33):
Right, school gardens, becausethat is, you know, you come back
in the fall and it's all fullof weeds, right, right.
So that's been fun.
And Izzy Frank, she's one of my, she was the one that she
graduated like three years agoand she came back and so got
somebody young and more vibrant,then didn't he Doing that one
(31:57):
in crystal as he does theHarvest of the Month videos.
Sam Humphrey (32:01):
That's amazing.
I find the video idea reallyfascinating.
I was talking with spurprowlers a couple weeks ago and
they were asking us researchersfor videos and personally, I
prefer to read.
I would prefer like a blog post, and I'm really curious about
your thoughts on ways to reachout to growers.
(32:24):
What do they want?
Carl Motsenbocker (32:28):
Well, I think the younger growers, the 20 and
30 year olds, they likepodcasts, they watch videos.
It's surprising to me because Iwill ask and they say, hey,
have you listened to so-and-olds?
They like podcasts, they watchvideos.
It's surprising to me because Iwill ask and they say, hey,
have you listened to so-and-so?
And it's like no, For mepersonally.
You know, I like to read, also,I can digest it better, but I
(32:49):
think it's a different way oflearning, and so we need to be
cognizant of that in our classestoo, giving them you know,
instead of just standing up andlecturing.
You know they want videos, theywant a little more dynamism,
and so that's and I think thehands-on is something that, with
the classes that I can, we tryto do hands-on horticulture.
(33:12):
So I think it's a skill, youknow, being able to grow food.
Everybody should know how togrow food, where our food comes
from, the importance of what weeat.
Curt Rom (33:22):
You know you mentioned you're doing these two
presentations.
They both have abstracts Withthem.
They were very interesting.
I think our listenership, thosethat are listening out there,
will probably be very interested.
They will be published.
Those abstracts will bepublished in our supplemental
science journal and so I thinkthat information, I would really
(33:47):
think that the information thatyou presented, would resonate
with some others that want tostart those kind of classes and
have those kind of servicelearning opportunities on
campuses across the UnitedStates.
So, listeners, you'll be ableto find that on the work science
in the future and I assume thatyou wouldn't mind if they reach
(34:08):
out to you?
Carl Motsenbocker (34:09):
No, they could reach out.
I can send them a PDF of mypresentations too, and our
website is seedstosuccessdotcom.
That's the Farm to Schoolwebsite, and we have three
different sections, one of whichhas all our gardening
publications, and then we havecurriculum there and yeah, so
(34:32):
that actually it's a website wedevelop outside of our
university, and it's actuallyreally nice.
I hate to say that.
Sam Humphrey (34:41):
And you said that's where students can find
your videos as well.
Carl Motsenbocker (34:45):
The videos are there.
We have a YouTube channel forthe Harvest of the Month videos,
louisiana Public BroadcastingLPB.
They have them all there.
And then we also have a YouTubechannel for our Seeds to
Success program.
So our program is called Seedsto Success, the Louisiana Farm
to School program.
Curt Rom (35:04):
Carl, there might be some listeners too that are
younger in the career than youand I are, but might want to be
following in your footsteps.
So, in your view, what are someof the big challenges, some of
the next big questions, or theexciting things that those of us
that are working on foodsystems and local foods, what do
(35:25):
we need to tackle next to youknow, improve local foods as a
component of our food system.
Carl Motsenbocker (35:32):
Yeah, Well, that's a good question.
Curt Rom (35:36):
Well, thank you for that.
Carl Motsenbocker (35:43):
I think for me, I think it's important to
listen to our farmers and listento our students and see what
they want and what their needsare.
And I've been just sitting backand I had a student that
graduated and I asked her shewas farming, are you happy, you
know?
Are you making enough to liveand enjoy your life?
(36:07):
And she was taken back at that.
But I did that before westarted our Beginning Farmer
Training Program, because Iwasn't going to start that
program if I knew it wasn'tgoing to benefit.
Right, and I think we have tobe intentional about what we do.
But often it's serendipity wherewe end up.
I think we're right where wewere supposed to be.
(36:29):
You know, in our lives we justkind of follow a path and it
just happened that we followedcertain, we made certain
decisions and so, you know, youjust got to let things flow.
I think, if that makes sensefor a young person, kind of look
forward and see where do I wantto be 10 years from now or five
years and what do I need to doto get there.
(36:50):
But there may be other pathsthat are open on the way there
and you never know what's goingto happen.
Curt Rom (36:56):
Yeah, you can't anticipate what doors might open
.
I asked you a very difficultquestion.
I don't know if you got it,because if we understood all the
questions right now, we'd beworking on those questions.
But there will be new questionsand especially with the
changing environment, climatechange, changing economic needs,
(37:18):
I think there'll still be a lotof opportunity for some really
great work on local foods andfood systems.
Carl Motsenbocker (37:25):
But there was a question in my talk that
somebody asked is anybody doingresearch on the market gardener
model?
And I don't think there reallyhas been much.
And that would be a greatopportunity for, like a grad
student, to actually go on fouror five farms and document all
their inputs, you know, and howthey market and and their
(37:48):
profits.
Because, to be honest, some ofmy colleagues on campus when I
said yeah, a farmer and his wifecan make a living on five acres
, they just don't say anything.
They don't my ag econ friends,they just don't believe it.
But I know in our state now wehave people that are doing that
and there's money there.
Sam Humphrey (38:11):
My last question for you.
Feel free to ask your own lastquestion if you'd like.
I'm not going to ask if you'rehappy, but I'm going to ask what
about your work makes you happy?
What about it?
What brings you happiness?
Yeah, it's a professionalarticle.
Curt Rom (38:29):
That's a great question, Sam.
I really like that.
Carl Motsenbocker (38:33):
Yeah, that's a great question.
I've actually been reflectingmore and more about my life and
why I am what I am.
But I love horticulture, I loveplants, I like to see people
enjoying themselves and I enjoyculture.
You know, Curt, you and I wetravel.
I do travel and I like to.
I go visit farmer's markets orgrocery stores any place in the
(38:56):
world just to see what'savailable in food, and so I
think I really feel blessed inthe job that I have.
And it's going to be hard tostep away and I'm always worried
that they won't hire anybodyfor my position, that it just
fade away and all this is justgoing to end up slowly gone, and
(39:21):
that's the, that's the danger,right that we have.
Curt Rom (39:25):
Yeah, Well, you know, uh, I've often heard that we're
all replaceable, but in someways we're or maybe a little
irreplaceable.
So well, Sam, I think this hasbeen a really kind of
interesting, good conversation Ithink it has.
Sam Humphrey (39:41):
I I feel very hopeful hearing about the
networks of farmers that aretalking to each other and that
are helping each other and thatare sharing information.
Um, I didn't realize that therewas such a community out there
for local farmers and and I'mfeeling very hopeful about it.
That's such an interestingthing and I hope that I can fit
(40:03):
some of this into my career.
So thank you for telling usabout yours, Carl, and you're
shaping young minds even as youattend the ASHS annual
conference.
Carl Motsenbocker (40:14):
Thank you for letting me come here and speak,
and it's been enjoyable.
It's good to meet you.
It's good to meet you.
It's good to meet you too.
Curt Rom (40:21):
Carl, it's always good to connect with you.
I know we share a mutualinterest in these aspects of the
local food system and, as youknow, I've come to visit you
some to see what you do For ourlisteners.
Again, I want to remind youthat you can look up Carl on the
internet Carl Mostenbacher,louisiana State University and
(40:46):
tell us again your website,where your resources are.
Carl Motsenbocker (40:50):
So you can go to the LSU AgCenter website.
If you Google me, CarlMostenbacher, it's
M-O-T-S-E-N-B-O-C-K-E-R.
My profile page is there, butour Farm to School website is
seedstosuccessdotcom.
Curt Rom (41:05):
Seedstosuccessdotcom and his abstracts presentation
will be published in HortScience, you know.
Supplemented, it will includeall of the abstracts for the
presentations and posters atthis conference.
Well, it's been a goodconference, Sam, and today,
actually right now, we're at thegeometric halfway point, so
(41:27):
we've still got half of it to go, but it's starting to wind down
quick.
Sam Humphrey (41:31):
I don't know.
I have so many talks still onmy list.
I don't feel like it's windingdown at all, but thank you to
everyone who was able to attendin person today as well.
It's really exciting for us tohave a live episode, since we're
always just doing it throughour computers and we never get
to see our listeners, and it'sjust wonderful to see so many
(41:51):
wonderful faces here.
So thank you.
Curt Rom (41:54):
Sam, we have a question from our audience, so
hold on a second.
We're going to take themicrophone over.
Please introduce yourself andtell us what your question is.
Allison Love (42:05):
Hi, thanks, I'm Allison.
My question is regarding theprogram schools.
I guess in Texas there weresome schools that are in more
rural regions where it seemsthat a lot of the students may
already have more access tolearning about gardening and
(42:29):
agriculture, horticulture, thatsort of thing.
As somebody who grew up in acity, I know my school didn't
have any of that.
So how do you choose whichschools to bring this program to
, or do they come to you?
Carl Motsenbocker (42:47):
Okay, that's a great question.
The question was rural versusurban, and how do we decide
which schools are working withor do they come to us.
Schools are working with or dothey come to us?
Basically, we have materialsthat are on our website and we
do trainings, and we don't focuson rural versus urban, I would
say, in terms of local foodsystems, we have food deserts in
(43:09):
rural areas too, and there'sproblems with food access and so
, but yeah, they we have.
Right now, we have an institute, we have a food farm to school
institute.
That's an adapter from Vermontand we have four districts, four
school districts, two of whichare urban and two are rural, and
(43:30):
so it just depends yeah, itdepends on the interest.
So part of what our job is tojust let people know around the
state that, yes, this programexists.
These are the benefits, this ishow you use the program and
that's how we try to support theexpansion of our programming.
Curt Rom (43:51):
Well, thank you very much for that question, Allison.
Well, thank you, it was apleasure to be here.
Carl Motsenbocker (44:15):
Thank you again.
Curt Rom (44:17):
Well, thank you, it was a pleasure to be here.
So this was Plants, People,Science, a podcast of the
American Society forHorticulture Science, where we
like to talk about everythingrelated to horticulture and
plants.
If you want more informationabout the American Society for
(44:42):
Horticulture Science, pleasevisit our website, ashs.
org.
You might want to considermembership and the benefits of
membership, including theability to publish discounts in
our publications, discounts inour conferences.
But American Society forHorticulture Science, ASHS, Sam,
thanks for being here today.
I've enjoyed it.
I look forward to our nextconversation.
Sam Humphrey (45:00):
I'm excited for it .
Thank you, and thank youlisteners for listening.
Curt Rom (45:06):
The ASHS podcast Plants, People, Science is made
possible by member dues andvolunteerism.
Please go to ASHS.
org to learn more.
If you're not already a memberof the ASHS, we invite you to
join.
ASHS is a not-for-profit andyour donations are
(45:27):
tax-deductible.
Sam Humphrey (45:30):
This episode was hosted by Samson Humphrey and
Curt Rom.
Special thanks to our audioengineer, Andrew Sheldorf, our
research specialists Lena Wilsonand Andrew Sheldorf, our ASHS
support team, Sara Powell andSally Murphy, and our musician,
John Clark.
Thanks for listening.
Curt Rom (45:47):
Thank you.
Welcome to Plants, people Science, a podcast of the
American Society forHorticultural Science where we
talk about all thingshorticulture Cu I'm , professor
at the University of Arkansas,and I'm joined today by our
co-host, amson Humphrey.
Hey Sam, how are you doing?
Sam Humphrey (00:32):
I'm doing great, urt.
We are here at the AmericanSociety for Horticultural
Science Annual Conference andthis is our first live episode
in two years.
Thank you, everyone in theaudience for coming.
Could you introduce the podcastand what we do?
Curt Rom (00:49):
Well, tpodcast is interesting.
It's actually something thatone of the programs at ASHS.
We like to feature ASHS memberswho do amazing things amazing
things in their laboratory, thefield or the classroom the
amazing things in theirlaboratory, the field or the
classroom.
We tend to have topics that area really broad audience.
We like to reach out and letpeople know about horticultural
(01:11):
science.
We have a podcast team.
I know we are the two voices,Sam and I, but we have a team
behind the scenes.
So we've got a research team.
We have a planning team thathelps us pick the topics, a
research team that researchesthose topics, and then we have a
(01:32):
production team that producesthe podcast.
We do about four or five a year, although this year I think
we're going to have about eight,but the idea is to tell neat
stories about how coolhorticulture is and how amazing
horticulture science is.
So, Sam, tell us a little bitmore about you.
Sam Humphrey (01:52):
Curt, I have just started my PhD program at the
University of Tennessee,Knoxville.
I don't think we've actuallyhad an episode since I've
started there.
It's going really well and I'mfinding all sorts of wonderful
research ideas here, listeningto talks at ASHS and planning my
PhD research.
So I'm doing well.
I do culinary herb research andI'm happy to be here Well great
(02:17):
.
Curt Rom (02:17):
I forgot to tell you congratulations on your master's
degree.
That was big.
I really enjoyed listening toyour seminar and your
presentation for your defense.
But congratulations on that.
Congratulations on yourappointment in Tennessee.
I look forward to seeing thework that you're going to do on
your dissertation.
You've been having a goodconference.
Sam Humphrey (02:36):
So far I have.
I've seen you talk, I thinkthree times, and it's been
amazing each time.
I've attended a few workshops,I've attended many different
lectures by students.
It's really exciting also tosee everyone talking to each
other, making connections,seeing the older generations of
horticulturalists and theirstudents and their students'
(02:57):
students all talking together.
What about you, Curt?
What have you enjoyed here?
Curt Rom (03:06):
Well, you know I've been this is my 45th year coming
to ASHS meetings and you know Ireally enjoy the science.
But I think now, at this stageof my career, what I really like
are the friendships thescientific and the academic
friendships I've made thecolleagues.
It's to me a little bit like afamily reunion when we all get
together we catch up, we aresharing what we're doing and
(03:29):
what's exciting us.
But I've been enjoying that andI've been enjoying.
I've heard some really goodpresentations and I saw some
good posters and I was impressedwith the qualities of the
graduate student science thatI've seen.
So there's good science beingdone and the fun is always in
the hallway and the networking.
Sam Humphrey (03:48):
That's true, and there are so many diverse topics
being covered as well, so manydifferent fields that I haven't
been a part of but that I'mlearning about just by being
here and having conversationslike the conversation we're
about to have today.
Curt Rom (04:02):
You know when I say our friends long-time friends
and colleagues that we developedthrough the ASHS.
That's our guest today.
Our guest today is Dr CarlMotsenbocker from Louisiana
State University.
Carl and I have been associatedbecause we have similar
interests and we have taughtsimilar classes and done similar
(04:24):
research for a while.
So let's get into today's topic, what I thought we would talk
about today.
We've got one of the ASHSexperts on local foods and food
systems Again, Dr CarlMotsenbocker.
Carl Motsenbocker (04:46):
Welcome, Dr Motsenbacher.
Hello, it's a pleasure to behere today.
Curt Rom (04:51):
How's it going for you ?
Are you having a?
Carl Motsenbocker (04:53):
good meeting.
I'm having a great meeting andthere's just too many different
sessions that I would like to gosee different topics.
So it's exciting for me and toalso meet up with old friends
and see people I haven't seensince last year at this meeting.
Curt Rom (05:09):
Yeah, I feel the same way and I think I've become more
of a generalist as I've uh agedin horticulture.
So I said, Dr moskenbacher, youand I've been friends a long
time.
May I call you Carl for this,of course?
Yes, good, Carl, tell us alittle bit, give us your
background and what you do, andmaybe give us your three-minute
feed.
Carl Motsenbocker (05:29):
Okay, I'll do my best in three minutes.
But I'm a professor ofhorticulture.
I was first hired to teach andto conduct vegetable research,
but now I have kind of expanded.
I have an extension appointmentwith three statewide extension
programs.
We have the Grow LouisianaBeginning Farmer Training
Program, we have the LouisianaFarm to School Program and I am
(05:53):
the SARE PDP the Sustainable AgResearch and Education Co-State
Coordinator.
So those three extensionprograms and then I have a
teaching appointment.
I teach four classes.
Right now I'm actually teachinga vegetable crops class while
I'm not here.
I have good people back homethat are helping me with that
and I teach a sustainableagriculture course and I teach
(06:17):
organic gardening andsustainable crop production
class.
And then I have a LSU andThailand study abroad class.
Curt Rom (06:34):
Yeah, where you and I overlap is I did a lot of work
early on about food systems andlocal foods and sustainable food
production and I got veryinterested in community
gardening, school gardening,farm to school kinds of programs
.
So tell us, you know what'sexciting to you.
I mean, you moved fromvegetable production Louisiana's
got pretty strong commercialvegetable production and that's
growing at scale and all of asudden you have gone to this
(06:56):
different scale.
What motivated you to go fromfocusing on commercial
production to these otheraspects of scale and of a local
food system?
Carl Motsenbocker (07:10):
So that's a good question.
I still remember when I wasteaching my first vegetable
crops class I won't tell you howmany decades ago, but I
realized that it was too late toreach out to college students,
that we need to reach out to theyoung, younger people.
So we started doing servicelearning projects with my
(07:30):
vegetable crops class and thenmy organic gardening class.
They would learn how to gardenand then they would go out in
the community.
You know, learning by doing isbetter because you are actually
understanding more when youteach somebody else.
And so I started doing that andactually I go back.
I was in the after I got myundergraduate degree.
I was working in Thailand and Ihad my first school garden.
(07:51):
I was like 24 years old andtrying to figure out what to
grow and how to sustain that andactually feeding people in a
village, feeding the childrenbecause they didn't have a
school lunch program, so it kindof feeds all the way back and
that's like 40 years ago.
Curt Rom (08:10):
You know that's a very similar journey that I took
when I started working onsustainable and organic
production systems.
That kind of led to foodsystems and then that led to the
components of the food systemthat are smaller scale.
You know, not only backyardgardeners but really gardeners
and farmers in the urban andperi-urban environment and
(08:34):
school gardening.
And, like you, I taught a class, and we'll teach a class,
called community institutionalschool and public gardening,
which kind of focuses onmanagement of that.
So what excites you aboutgardening at that scale or that
component of the food system?
Carl Motsenbocker (08:53):
So for me, when I was teaching my organic
gardening class, I was usingElliot Coleman's book the
Organic Grower, and that isbasically a husband and wife
making a living on five acres,which many people would say
that's impossible, and that was30 years ago.
And then I had some studentsthat had been in my class.
(09:16):
They are farming.
And then they said this is like10 years ago.
Look there's the marketgardener, you got to read this
book ago.
Look there's the marketgardener, you got to read this
book.
His premise is an acre and ahalf for a husband and wife,
like two people to make a goodliving.
And then Elliot Coleman, hescaled down to two and a half
acres now and we have abeginning farmer training
(09:38):
program and we really focus onsmall scale intensive growing
where I think there's a reallygood niche for local food
systems in shortening the foodchain instead of relying on
grocery stores and food comingfrom California and Florida into
our state.
So I think that is what reallyhas been exciting to me.
(09:59):
And then we also bring in myformer students that are farming
.
They come in and say I was inthis class, you know, back 12
years ago, and I'm farming nowand we go visit, there's a
husband and wife.
They have a farm like six milesfrom campus.
So we take the students outthere and they get to see
exactly yeah, you can put thatinto practice and you can do it
(10:20):
and you can enjoy.
It's hard work, but it'sworking outside.
You're your own owner, your ownbusiness.
I think there's really goodvalue in that.
Sam Humphrey (10:32):
That's amazing.
So in this, these few decadesof experience that you've had,
really getting to know thefarmers and being very involved
at a local level, how has yourjob, how has your work, changed
over time?
Your perspective?
I'm just I'm curious about that.
Carl Motsenbocker (10:52):
Well, that is actually an excellent question,
because I started to reflectmore on this, because I have to
determine when I'm going to stepdown, when I'm going to stop
doing this.
And it really has, because Iwas focusing more on commercial
you know, larger scale vegetableproduction and I realized that
(11:14):
not everybody can do that.
You can't borrow the money.
You know land costs are prettyhigh where we are and this is a
model that can work, and so ithas been interesting to be able
to have funding.
Without the funding, I couldn'tdo this, and literally right
now we have five extensionassociates working on these
(11:36):
three extension programs, pluswe have part-time people, and
it's been more of managingpeople.
The hard part for me has beento have to give up control and
trust people and we have reallygood team members we share and
they could literally tell meanything.
You know, and I've learned toget criticism.
(11:59):
I ask my students and they knowthey can tell me.
Well, that lab was horrible.
Curt Rom (12:07):
Students can be really honest and I'm impressed how
often farmers tell me what theydo and I do not know.
Well, I want to go to oneaspect of this.
You teach a course insustainability, several courses
in sustainability, and that'sbeen kind of a focus effort for
you.
Why are these small-scale localfoods?
(12:27):
Why do we consider them as asustainable component of our
food system?
Carl Motsenbocker (12:36):
Well, I guess it relates to what our local
food system is and how we needfarmers.
I mean, we have a dearth offarmers, at least in our state.
In many places, you know, thenumber of farms has been going
down, acreage is going up,there's a lot of debt.
We don't have much support forour horticulture producers.
(12:58):
They don't get a governmentcheck like some of the row crop
farmers do.
So I think in terms ofsustainability in most of these
farmers that are becomingfarmers are most that.
Take my organic gardening class.
They are non-traditionalstudents.
They don't come from farms andthey want more environmental
stewardship.
(13:18):
They want the community and Ifind that that whole group of
young people are very muchdifferent than our older farmers
.
They're willing to share,they're willing to have people
come on their farm and learn andto work with them.
It really excites me to seethis.
They are building community andeven within my class they'll be
(13:40):
out there harvesting plots forour food pantry and they'll be
talking and enjoying just beingoutside, you know, and it's fun
to watch.
Curt Rom (13:50):
You know, with the decline of vegetable production
in Louisiana that you made, Imean, it appears to me then that
these kind of farms are fillinga gap, filling a need and
provide fresh food locally.
And what's the ?
Carl Motsenbocker (14:10):
That's just like the rest of country.
The number of farmer's marketshas increased and that is one of
the avenues that I think youngpeople that are trying their
hand at farming.
It's a good place to practice,a good place to meet the
community, meet buyers andpeople who are buying, see what
people want, what kinds ofquality, what do people need.
(14:32):
So we look at that as just onecomponent.
But New Orleans is a greatmarket for restaurants and I
know some farmers are able tosell fresh local product.
The nice thing is the productis often like a day old and it's
fresh.
It's brought right down to thefarmer's market or to
(14:56):
restaurants.
So there's a great opportunity.
The farm in Baton Rouge,fullness Farm, the two that took
my class she actually got hermaster's with me looking at soil
health on her farm and lookingat three different stages Fresh
ground, ground that they hadworked for like two or three
(15:17):
years, and then ground they'dworked at for five years and
looking at that.
And she was able to help meteach my class for like three
years, you know, and to havethat person in the classroom a
young person, you know, workingwith students, I mean, I'm an
old person, an old white male,and I acknowledge that.
(15:39):
But we have to give the youngan opportunity.
But it'd be difficult for themto be in my space right now with
all that we have going on andto balance, you know, home life
and work.
So but it is exciting.
Curt Rom (15:55):
It's an exciting time to be in local food systems that
you mentioned that kind ofresonated with me is that the
opportunity, because they haveshortened the supply chain from
farmer to the market or to theconsumer, that develop,
delivering fresher produce,which in a lot of cases may mean
(16:18):
higher quality because it to beharvested more mature, and no
product deterioration throughthe supply chain, delivery chain
but, also eliminates somesignificant parts of the cold
chain and so that the energyrequirements might be going down
(16:38):
.
Is that really true too, to?
I mean, if you're delivering it, you're harvesting it on Friday
and delivering it to arestaurant on Saturday to be
consumed Saturday and Sunday.
That's a significant differencein refrigeration from something
that was harvested last weekand then having to be
transported and refrigerated totenner and then held in a
(16:59):
distribution center.
Carl Motsenbocker (17:00):
Right, yeah, I think that is one of the
environmental stewardshipaspects, the sustainability
aspect, shortening the foodchain.
Product is harvested at perhapsbetter quality, you know,
instead of green, maturetomatoes, vine ripened tomatoes,
peak ripeness, peak flavor,delivered, delivered, and they
(17:21):
don't have to be stored as longand the market is closer.
So, yeah, less transportationcosts, less cooling, so all that
kind of fits in into thatparticular system.
Sam Humphrey (17:36):
So you talked a bit about these growers being
hungry for information and evenbeing your graduate students,
becoming your graduate students.
I'm curious if you couldelaborate a bit on your efforts
to meet that need forinformation.
How do you reach out to allthese people and what does that
(17:56):
look like?
Carl Motsenbocker (17:59):
Well, we were fortunate to have a USDA
Beginning Farmer RancherDevelopment Program grant so we
developed Grow Louisiana.
It started in 2019.
We ran it for three years indifferent parts of the state.
At that time we didn't havemany mentors for these
small-scale farms but since thenwe've had a cohort going
(18:20):
through several of them, goingthrough several of them.
But with our program we usuallydo farmer meetups.
We don't usually advertise, welet the farmers advertise and
then we support them gettingtogether with networking.
With the Sustainable AgExtension Program.
(18:40):
We do farmer trainings.
We did a farm tour last year ina town west of us, like four
different farms and you know wehad over 120 people.
Part of that tour is a day-longtour.
So that's kind of theactivities that we have.
But the Grow Louisiana programis a year-long program eight
(19:01):
sessions in the spring, a couplesummer trainings and then eight
in the fall.
So we're actually in our sixthfall training.
We have a couple more and thenthere's going to be a farmer
meetup.
So this new cohort, along withother farmers that are in that
same vein and we often see themlike we'll do a tour where the
(19:21):
farmer meetup is and thenthey'll be talking and making
you know, connections andsharing ideas.
I think that's where we'rereally seeing more of, instead
of the traditional classroomlearning.
Sam Humphrey (19:41):
Yeah, what sort of information are they hungry for
?
Are there ?
Carl Motsenbocker (19:44):
So I think soils and this is that I'm not
as well versed on, some of thenew like we would say newer
ideas about soil health and howto benefit and ideas about soil
health and how to benefit, and alot of them don't like to use
synthetic fertilizers.
So how do you build up yoursoils?
How do you sustain that?
Another is marketing, andusually when I work with farmers
(20:10):
, marketing is the first topicyou know, unless you have a
market, and also integratinglivestock into horticulture,
because we're seeing more andmore diversified farms where
they have chickens and they'recollecting other livestock
products to use as fertilizer.
Curt Rom (20:28):
So it's kind of going back to the way sustainable
farms used to be 100 years agosustainable farms used to be 100
years ago as part of the foodsystem and the market chain that
(20:49):
these growers might utilize tohelp sell their product.
What's the development inLouisiana like, and in your area
, about farm to school programswhere farmers might sell
directly, or as an individual orthrough a cooperative, to a
school?
Is there much activity in farmschool programs, and have you
been involved in those at all?
Carl Motsenbocker (21:05):
Well, that's a good, very good question,
because I actually have it'skind of a long story, but I'll
tell you.
It may be good to give you anidea how I got into it.
So I was doing service learningprojects at schools and then I
applied for a USDA Farm toSchool Conference grant back in
2013.
We put on a conference in BatonRouge and two other regional
(21:27):
conferences and then I appliedto.
I went to a Farm to SchoolConference in Austin, Texas, and
I had like a two or three weekwindow to apply for a specialty
crops block grant and I wrote asmall grant to do Harvest of the
Month Basically one fruit orvegetable each month and
(21:48):
celebrating that.
And so we did a pilot where wewent to three schools around the
state and we introduced that insourcing local.
So we had to kind of coordinatethat.
And then our Department ofEducation and our Department of
Ag and Forestry they had passeda resolution through our
legislature without any funding,to start a farm to school
(22:10):
program back in 2016.
So the Department of Educationcalled me literally called me on
the phone and said, hey, Carl,you want some money for Duke
Farm School and I called again.
I literally waited for twomonths because I was teaching.
I had all this.
You know we're all working.
(22:30):
It's like, well, how much moneyare you going to give me?
Is it just $20,000, $30,000?
So it actually started in 2017.
And we were getting.
We also applied for USDA Farmto School grants.
We've had several of those.
There was several pots of moneyand most of it goes through the
(22:50):
Department of Education andthen it comes to us.
So we have a conference.
Our conference is next week.
So I was working this morningtrying to meet with some of our
team.
We have a team meeting everyWednesday, so that's how it's
gotten in and you asked about.
So Farm to School has like threetenants to it.
The first we would usuallyconsider is growing food at
(23:13):
school.
It's like school gardens ormaybe aquaponics or growing in
the classroom.
The second would be curriculum,so educational programming,
often about agriculture,nutrition, healthy eating, but
it could be using a garden foran art class, you know, or for a
(23:34):
writing class.
And the third is purchasinglocal.
So procurement is the thirdpiece and our program actually
works in all three pieces ofthat and we have.
We had a full-time person thatwas a school nutrition director.
We brought her on two years ago.
I have a former teacher that'sour curriculum expert.
We have a communicationscoordinator and we have a
(23:59):
program director.
She had worked in extension inTennessee for like seven or
eight years and she's ourprogram director.
And I have a former student ofmine.
She is working like part-time.
She's actually working in allthree of my extension programs
and she helps me teach classes.
So it's a very dynamicsituation for me right now.
(24:23):
But it's been exciting to haveyou know to be working for so
long and be not having muchfunding and then all of a sudden
you know to have funding.
So we put out a series ofsustainable gardening guides for
school and home gardens,basically organic guides.
We had there's like 17 of those.
I'm still working on two orthree.
(24:44):
We have a whole other seriesthat without the USDA funding,
you know my administration wouldnot give me for an extension
associate.
So that's just an example.
Give me for an extensionassociate.
So that's just an example, andwe have harvested them on videos
that we developed.
The one unique thing about thecurriculum is we made sure that
(25:05):
all of the lesson plans are tiedto state standards.
So when I used to go approachschools about doing farm to
school, they said, oh, we'rebusy, we got to teach to the
test, we got to teach to thecurriculum, so these lessons are
tied to the curriculum.
So it's like, oh, I can usethis, you know, and everything
we have is on our website andyou can download that.
(25:26):
We have posters, we haverecipes, we have, you know, a
conversation guide.
How do you, how does the schoolsystem talk to farmers?
How does the farmer talk to theschool system about buying?
We have a whole host ofmaterials that are there, and so
it's been a lot of fun to kindof create this from literally
almost nothing.
Sam Humphrey (25:47):
Wow.
And to get funding and be ableto work on something that's so
impactful, that must be reallyexciting.
I'm so curious about the rangeof students you reach.
You said that maybe by the timestudents are in college, maybe
it's a little bit late and weshould be reaching out to
younger students.
What does that range look liketo you, and how do those
(26:08):
students vary by age?
Carl Motsenbocker (26:19):
So we try to survey and find out who uses our
harvest of the month.
So it's open for people toregister and we give them the
materials and then we try to getthem to respond.
But it's K through 12, sokindergarten through 12th grade.
Our focus is primarily thirdthrough fifth grade, because I
think that's probably the besttime to get kids to be excited
(26:39):
about horticulture, about wheretheir food comes from, about
eating better.
And we recently, about two yearsago, we started with our early
childhood education.
So there's a group and werecently, like I, gave a talk to
a group up in the northern partof the state and we recently,
like I, gave a talk to a groupup in the northern part of the
state and then next week, onSaturday, I'm giving another
(26:59):
just a brief overview of.
You know, this is what ourprogram is and we are developing
curriculum for them to use forthe little kids.
And the other bright spot isLouisiana.
4-h has picked up our programand they're using Harvest of the
Month for their weekly meetingtimes and so it's been
interesting to see that kind ofcome together with us and we
(27:24):
have a pilot of putting togetherfor eight different commodities
, working with 4-H, to kind oftest that out.
So that's been exciting and tohave like my team.
There's like five of us, fiveplus me.
It's been a real blessing tohave them because they are as
(27:45):
excited as me about this.
Curt Rom (27:48):
Yeah, you mentioned that in the classes you teach on
school gardening and communitygardening.
It's a service learning class,and so you have a campus
community garden, didn't I hearyou say that?
And you're growing for yourfood pantry.
Carl Motsenbocker (28:03):
Yes, so that is correct.
I have a 2000 level classorganic gardening and
sustainable crop production anda major component of that is
students will grow using themarket gardening method of a bed
top on four foot centers, 30inches and then 20 feet long,
(28:24):
and then we also grow communitybeds that they will harvest and
give to the LSU food pantry, andthat's part of the service.
So they start from beginning toend, they make their own
transplants, they do their owndirect seeding and we also have
them transplant and direct seedstaff on your campus.
Curt Rom (28:42):
That's a really wonderful thing.
So, learning while serving whata novel idea, great class.
Carl Motsenbocker (29:04):
Yeah, it's a lot of fun and I think the major
clientele group is probablygraduate students, international
graduate students that may nothave as much funds and right now
I'm teaching my 4,000-levelvegetable crops class and they
don't have individual plots,they're just going to be growing
for the food pantry and theyselect out of a hat if it's
(29:27):
going to be a transplant and adirect seeded crop and they have
to spend the semester growingthat.
So that's kind of a fun thingfor us.
Sam Humphrey (29:38):
Do you have any stories about students who have
done that and really enjoyed it?
Carl Motsenbocker (29:43):
Yeah, I actually I'm giving a talk on
Friday on this.
Well, actually I gave oneyesterday, but some of the
quotes so I know.
I had one last fall.
They said I lost weight, I atebetter and I didn't have to go
to the grocery store as much youknow.
(30:05):
And one was like you know, wecan do this, it's not that hard.
I mean, that's what a lot ofthem they realize.
It isn't that difficult.
As long as your soil is good,your conditions and you have all
the equipment, it actually isnot that hard a thing to do.
Curt Rom (30:22):
So you said you've already given a paper at the
conference and you're going togive another one.
Tell us what are your twopapers, your presentations
you're making.
Carl Motsenbocker (30:31):
So the first one was in the educational, the
teaching, section yesterday andit was about my organic
gardening class and growing foodfor the LSU Food Pantry and we
brought in like 2,400 pounds offresh product over the semester
and then into the spring,because we usually have carrots
(30:51):
and cabbage that's still left.
And then on Friday, in thelocal food systems section, I'm
giving a talk about harvest ofthe month but about the videos
that we have developed and howmany views we've had.
And also we have developed aseries of videos, horticulture
videos, like three to fiveminutes long for the teachers,
(31:13):
because the teachers are like,okay, it's August, what do we
plan?
So we give like an overview ofthe fall semester and then you
know how do you make transplants, how do you direct seed?
We have a series of eight andwe're still making them.
The best one probably was endedthe spring semester.
What do you do with your garden?
(31:33):
Right, school gardens, becausethat is, you know, you come back
in the fall and it's all fullof weeds, right, right.
So that's been fun.
And Izzy Frank, she's one of my, she was the one that she
graduated like three years agoand she came back and so got
somebody young and more vibrant,then didn't he Doing that one
(31:57):
in crystal as he does theHarvest of the Month videos.
Sam Humphrey (32:01):
That's amazing.
I find the video idea reallyfascinating.
I was talking with spurprowlers a couple weeks ago and
they were asking us researchersfor videos and personally, I
prefer to read.
I would prefer like a blog post, and I'm really curious about
your thoughts on ways to reachout to growers.
(32:24):
What do they want?
Carl Motsenbocker (32:28):
Well, I think the younger growers, the 20 and
30 year olds, they likepodcasts, they watch videos.
It's surprising to me because Iwill ask and they say, hey,
have you listened to so-and-olds?
They like podcasts, they watchvideos.
It's surprising to me because Iwill ask and they say, hey,
have you listened to so-and-so?
And it's like no, For mepersonally.
You know, I like to read, also,I can digest it better, but I
(32:49):
think it's a different way oflearning, and so we need to be
cognizant of that in our classestoo, giving them you know,
instead of just standing up andlecturing.
You know they want videos, theywant a little more dynamism,
and so that's and I think thehands-on is something that, with
the classes that I can, we tryto do hands-on horticulture.
(33:12):
So I think it's a skill, youknow, being able to grow food.
Everybody should know how togrow food, where our food comes
from, the importance of what weeat.
Curt Rom (33:22):
You know you mentioned you're doing these two
presentations.
They both have abstracts Withthem.
They were very interesting.
I think our listenership, thosethat are listening out there,
will probably be very interested.
They will be published.
Those abstracts will bepublished in our supplemental
science journal and so I thinkthat information, I would really
(33:47):
think that the information thatyou presented, would resonate
with some others that want tostart those kind of classes and
have those kind of servicelearning opportunities on
campuses across the UnitedStates.
So, listeners, you'll be ableto find that on the work science
in the future and I assume thatyou wouldn't mind if they reach
(34:08):
out to you?
Carl Motsenbocker (34:09):
No, they could reach out.
I can send them a PDF of mypresentations too, and our
website is seedstosuccessdotcom.
That's the Farm to Schoolwebsite, and we have three
different sections, one of whichhas all our gardening
publications, and then we havecurriculum there and yeah, so
(34:32):
that actually it's a website wedevelop outside of our
university, and it's actuallyreally nice.
I hate to say that.
Sam Humphrey (34:41):
And you said that's where students can find
your videos as well.
Carl Motsenbocker (34:45):
The videos are there.
We have a YouTube channel forthe Harvest of the Month videos,
louisiana Public BroadcastingLPB.
They have them all there.
And then we also have a YouTubechannel for our Seeds to
Success program.
So our program is called Seedsto Success, the Louisiana Farm
to School program.
Curt Rom (35:04):
Carl, there might be some listeners too that are
younger in the career than youand I are, but might want to be
following in your footsteps.
So, in your view, what are someof the big challenges, some of
the next big questions, or theexciting things that those of us
that are working on foodsystems and local foods, what do
(35:25):
we need to tackle next to youknow, improve local foods as a
component of our food system.
Carl Motsenbocker (35:32):
Yeah, Well, that's a good question.
Curt Rom (35:36):
Well, thank you for that.
Carl Motsenbocker (35:43):
I think for me, I think it's important to
listen to our farmers and listento our students and see what
they want and what their needsare.
And I've been just sitting backand I had a student that
graduated and I asked her shewas farming, are you happy, you
know?
Are you making enough to liveand enjoy your life?
(36:07):
And she was taken back at that.
But I did that before westarted our Beginning Farmer
Training Program, because Iwasn't going to start that
program if I knew it wasn'tgoing to benefit.
Right, and I think we have tobe intentional about what we do.
But often it's serendipity wherewe end up.
I think we're right where wewere supposed to be.
(36:29):
You know, in our lives we justkind of follow a path and it
just happened that we followedcertain, we made certain
decisions and so, you know, youjust got to let things flow.
I think, if that makes sensefor a young person, kind of look
forward and see where do I wantto be 10 years from now or five
years and what do I need to doto get there.
(36:50):
But there may be other pathsthat are open on the way there
and you never know what's goingto happen.
Curt Rom (36:56):
Yeah, you can't anticipate what doors might open
.
I asked you a very difficultquestion.
I don't know if you got it,because if we understood all the
questions right now, we'd beworking on those questions.
But there will be new questionsand especially with the
changing environment, climatechange, changing economic needs,
(37:18):
I think there'll still be a lotof opportunity for some really
great work on local foods andfood systems.
Carl Motsenbocker (37:25):
But there was a question in my talk that
somebody asked is anybody doingresearch on the market gardener
model?
And I don't think there reallyhas been much.
And that would be a greatopportunity for, like a grad
student, to actually go on fouror five farms and document all
their inputs, you know, and howthey market and and their
(37:48):
profits.
Because, to be honest, some ofmy colleagues on campus when I
said yeah, a farmer and his wifecan make a living on five acres
, they just don't say anything.
They don't my ag econ friends,they just don't believe it.
But I know in our state now wehave people that are doing that
and there's money there.
Sam Humphrey (38:11):
My last question for you.
Feel free to ask your own lastquestion if you'd like.
I'm not going to ask if you'rehappy, but I'm going to ask what
about your work makes you happy?
What about it?
What brings you happiness?
Yeah, it's a professionalarticle.
Curt Rom (38:29):
That's a great question, Sam.
I really like that.
Carl Motsenbocker (38:33):
Yeah, that's a great question.
I've actually been reflectingmore and more about my life and
why I am what I am.
But I love horticulture, I loveplants, I like to see people
enjoying themselves and I enjoyculture.
You know, Curt, you and I wetravel.
I do travel and I like to.
I go visit farmer's markets orgrocery stores any place in the
(38:56):
world just to see what'savailable in food, and so I
think I really feel blessed inthe job that I have.
And it's going to be hard tostep away and I'm always worried
that they won't hire anybodyfor my position, that it just
fade away and all this is justgoing to end up slowly gone, and
(39:21):
that's the, that's the danger,right that we have.
Curt Rom (39:25):
Yeah, Well, you know, uh, I've often heard that we're
all replaceable, but in someways we're or maybe a little
irreplaceable.
So well, Sam, I think this hasbeen a really kind of
interesting, good conversation Ithink it has.
Sam Humphrey (39:41):
I I feel very hopeful hearing about the
networks of farmers that aretalking to each other and that
are helping each other and thatare sharing information.
Um, I didn't realize that therewas such a community out there
for local farmers and and I'mfeeling very hopeful about it.
That's such an interestingthing and I hope that I can fit
(40:03):
some of this into my career.
So thank you for telling usabout yours, Carl, and you're
shaping young minds even as youattend the ASHS annual
conference.
Carl Motsenbocker (40:14):
Thank you for letting me come here and speak,
and it's been enjoyable.
It's good to meet you.
It's good to meet you.
It's good to meet you too.
Curt Rom (40:21):
Carl, it's always good to connect with you.
I know we share a mutualinterest in these aspects of the
local food system and, as youknow, I've come to visit you
some to see what you do For ourlisteners.
Again, I want to remind youthat you can look up Carl on the
internet Carl Mostenbacher,louisiana State University and
(40:46):
tell us again your website,where your resources are.
Carl Motsenbocker (40:50):
So you can go to the LSU AgCenter website.
If you Google me, CarlMostenbacher, it's
M-O-T-S-E-N-B-O-C-K-E-R.
My profile page is there, butour Farm to School website is
seedstosuccessdotcom.
Curt Rom (41:05):
Seedstosuccessdotcom and his abstracts presentation
will be published in HortScience, you know.
Supplemented, it will includeall of the abstracts for the
presentations and posters atthis conference.
Well, it's been a goodconference, Sam, and today,
actually right now, we're at thegeometric halfway point, so
(41:27):
we've still got half of it to go, but it's starting to wind down
quick.
Sam Humphrey (41:31):
I don't know.
I have so many talks still onmy list.
I don't feel like it's windingdown at all, but thank you to
everyone who was able to attendin person today as well.
It's really exciting for us tohave a live episode, since we're
always just doing it throughour computers and we never get
to see our listeners, and it'sjust wonderful to see so many
(41:51):
wonderful faces here.
So thank you.
Curt Rom (41:54):
Sam, we have a question from our audience, so
hold on a second.
We're going to take themicrophone over.
Please introduce yourself andtell us what your question is.
Allison Love (42:05):
Hi, thanks, I'm Allison.
My question is regarding theprogram schools.
I guess in Texas there weresome schools that are in more
rural regions where it seemsthat a lot of the students may
already have more access tolearning about gardening and
(42:29):
agriculture, horticulture, thatsort of thing.
As somebody who grew up in acity, I know my school didn't
have any of that.
So how do you choose whichschools to bring this program to
, or do they come to you?
Carl Motsenbocker (42:47):
Okay, that's a great question.
The question was rural versusurban, and how do we decide
which schools are working withor do they come to us.
Schools are working with or dothey come to us?
Basically, we have materialsthat are on our website and we
do trainings, and we don't focuson rural versus urban, I would
say, in terms of local foodsystems, we have food deserts in
(43:09):
rural areas too, and there'sproblems with food access and so
, but yeah, they we have.
Right now, we have an institute, we have a food farm to school
institute.
That's an adapter from Vermontand we have four districts, four
school districts, two of whichare urban and two are rural, and
(43:30):
so it just depends yeah, itdepends on the interest.
So part of what our job is tojust let people know around the
state that, yes, this programexists.
These are the benefits, this ishow you use the program and
that's how we try to support theexpansion of our programming.
Curt Rom (43:51):
Well, thank you very much for that question, Allison.
Well, thank you, it was apleasure to be here.
Carl Motsenbocker (44:15):
Thank you again.
Curt Rom (44:17):
Well, thank you, it was a pleasure to be here.
So this was Plants, People,Science, a podcast of the
American Society forHorticulture Science, where we
like to talk about everythingrelated to horticulture and
plants.
If you want more informationabout the American Society for
(44:42):
Horticulture Science, pleasevisit our website, ashs.
org.
You might want to considermembership and the benefits of
membership, including theability to publish discounts in
our publications, discounts inour conferences.
But American Society forHorticulture Science, ASHS, Sam,
thanks for being here today.
I've enjoyed it.
I look forward to our nextconversation.
Sam Humphrey (45:00):
I'm excited for it .
Thank you, and thank youlisteners for listening.
Curt Rom (45:06):
The ASHS podcast Plants, People, Science is made
possible by member dues andvolunteerism.
Please go to ASHS.
org to learn more.
If you're not already a memberof the ASHS, we invite you to
join.
ASHS is a not-for-profit andyour donations are
(45:27):
tax-deductible.
Sam Humphrey (45:30):
This episode was hosted by Samson Humphrey and
Curt Rom.
Special thanks to our audioengineer, Andrew Sheldorf, our
research specialists Lena Wilsonand Andrew Sheldorf, our ASHS
support team, Sara Powell andSally Murphy, and our musician,
John Clark.
Thanks for listening.
Curt Rom (45:47):
Thank you.
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