February 10, 2025 • 35 mins
What if the secret to growing your business wasn't more work - but smarter systems?
In today's new episode of Powerful Women Rising, I chat with Melissa Rich, a systems and operations consultant for small businesses, about how mastering workflows and systems can help entrepreneurs reclaim their time and focus on what they truly love.
Melissa breaks down how the things many of us see as the "boring" side of business (templates, workflows, automations, etc.) can actually be the secret to happier clients, better connections and more sustainable growth.
What you'll learn:
- What the "Client Journey" really is , why it matters and how to map it out.
- Common mistakes small business owners make with systems - and how to avoid them.
- Tools and strategies to streamline operations using automations while still delivering a high-touch experience.
This episode will help you take control of your business operations and build systems that support your goals without draining all your time and energy.
Links & References:
- Join us at our next PWR Virtual Speed Networking Event!
- For even deeper connections, check out the Powerful Women Rising Community!
- To learn more about Melissa Rich: https://workwithpeapod.com/
- Connect with Melissa on LinkedIn or Instagram
- Also mentioned in this episode: PWR Episode #81 - The Power of GIFs in Connecting With Your Audience w/Deanna Seymour
Loved the episode? Here are four ways you can show your support:
1. Buy me a coffee to show your appreciation!
2. Leave a five-star review
3. DM me on Instagram and let me know
4. Share it with a friend!
Connect with Your Host!
Melissa Snow is a Business Relationship Strategist dedicated to empowering women in entrepreneurship. She founded the Powerful Women Rising Community, which provides female business owners with essential support and resources for business growth.
Melissa's other mission is to revolutionize networking, promoting authenticity and genuine connections over sleazy sales tactics. She runs an incredible monthly Virtual Speed Networking Event which you can attend once at no cost using the code FIRSTTIME
She lives in Colorado Springs with two girl dogs, two boy cats and any number of foster kittens. She loves iced coffee, Taylor Swift, and Threads.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hello Melissa, Welcome to the podcast.
Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
I'm so excited to be here.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
I am excited to talk to you.
Two Melissa's in one podcast ismy favorite thing.
I hate that never happens.
Well, it's happened once before, and I asked that Melissa too.
At the very beginning I waslike you're not a Leo, are you?
No, I'm a Scorpio.
Okay, good, I'm a Leo.
We can't take two Leo Melissa'sin one place.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
No, believe it or not , growing up my best friend, her
name was also Melissa.
So, it's like right, does shespell it?
The same too?
She does.
We called her.
I went to a teeny, tiny highschool Like there were.
We were all in one class.
It was that small.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
And so people called her Mel and people called me
Liss and I still get so mad whenpeople try to call me Mel.
Now Can't do it.
So together you guys were likea whole Melissa.
That's awesome.
Yeah, I see a lot of otherpeople.
I mean, melissa, you must'vebeen an eighties baby, because
Melissa was the thing in theeighties, but a lot of people
don't spell it like we spell it.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
No, they don't Not at all.
We're in the era of weird namespelling.
Yes, that's very safe to say.
Somebody had to spell Brittanyfor me the other day and there
was a Y and two T's and an A andan I and like I was so thrown
off, I was like, wait a minuteBecause we ran out of names, so
we're like we'll just use thesame names and spell them
(01:21):
different.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Oh my gosh, right, okay, so let's get to the point.
I have that problem.
A lot we are talking todayabout about client experiences
and about having systems inplace that improve your client
experiences, why it matters ifyour clients have a good
experience other than theobvious.
(01:43):
But before we dive into some ofthat, why don't you tell
everybody just a little bitabout you, what you do, why
you're the person here talkingabout client experience and
systems?
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Yeah, so I am a.
The formal, super, not funversion is a systems and
operations consultant, right,and my email title?
I kind of call myself a systemssecret weapon.
That's what I prefer, but I ama systems and workflow geek and
nerd and I love it.
I started my business to helpsmall, creative business owners
get their lives back right.
(02:14):
So often creative businessowners they want to focus on
doing the thing that they loveand then, as a byproduct of that
, the other part of running abusiness gets neglected.
I love working with them to bethe other half of their brain,
to get that up to speed so thatthey can actually do more of
what they love withoutneglecting the other half of
their business.
So workflows, automations ohgosh email templates the whole
(02:37):
nine yards whatever we can do tomake your life easier.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
That's what I do I love that.
How did you get into doing thatkind of work?
It I love that.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
How did you get into doing that kind of work?
It's kind of atopsy-turvy-curvy story, if you
will.
They usually are Right.
Right out of college, I workedfor a large healthcare IT
company on a process improvementteam, and so that's where I
initially fell in love withworkflows and workflow mapping
and everything like that.
Fast forward seven years and Iquit my corporate job to run a
(03:04):
wedding photography businesswith my husband, where I learned
about the creative aspect andhow to work with creatives of
all different types and how torun a business and everything
like that.
The pandemic hit and ourwedding business got hit really,
really hard, and so I picked upsome VA work and I realized
that the work that I loved mostdoing with those clients had to
(03:24):
do with systems and workflowsright, and so then I started my
business, and here we are.
I just I love it.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
That's genius Because most entrepreneurs that I talk
to are not like.
The part that I really love issystems and workflows.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
No, this is the really not sexy part of business
that everybody hates and thatnobody likes to spend time on,
but it's honestly like make itor break it.
You know what I mean?
You can't scale without thesystems and operations in place
to support you, so you're not.
You're right about that,Melissa.
100%.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
Well, and what's so cool about what you do too as I
was just having thisconversation with somebody else
this morning is so many of uslike, when we got into
entrepreneurship, it wasn'tbecause we wanted to do sales
and marketing and build funnelsand automations and email
sequences and, like, do our ownbookkeeping.
Like that was none of the stuffwe wanted to do.
(04:21):
We wanted to make the thing orprovide the service, help the
people, talk to, whatever.
And then we get intoentrepreneurship and we realize,
okay, we actually have to doall of those other things too,
and I don't want to Right,exactly, exactly.
Not only do I not want to, butI also don't really have the
time to teach myself to do right.
(04:43):
Like I got to teach myself tobe a bookkeeper, I got to teach
myself to be a online marketer,I got to teach myself to be a
social media, whatever.
Like I.
Nobody has time to learn to doall the things.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
So we are really glad you exist.
Well, and nobody has to have,like the brain power to do all
of that.
You know what I mean andhonestly I said I was a wedding
photographer for 15 years.
I never identified as being acreative.
You know what I mean and so Ifeel like I understand that
world well enough to be able toget into creative people's
(05:16):
brains and pull out what we needto pull out to make their lives
easier and to make theirbusinesses run smoother, while
making it not super painful forthem.
If you will.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
I love that.
That's awesome.
So let's talk first about thisphrase client journey because I
feel like this is something thatwe hear a lot.
We hear business coachestalking about it.
It's kind of sometimes abuzzword that everybody's like
oh yeah, the client journey.
And so many people are like, ohyeah, I have a client journey.
But all of us, I feel likesecretly, are like what are we?
(05:49):
What is like?
Is the client journey just like, oh, she signed up for a
consult and then she booked withme and now she's my client and
now this is how I offboard her.
Like is that what we're talkingabout?
Speaker 2 (06:01):
I love this question so much because you are so right
.
It's something that getsskipped over so often.
Right, it gets used, but thenthere's no how-to explanation
for it.
So I consider the clientjourney to be every interaction
that you have with your client,from the time they inquire, so
before they're a client right,when they're just a brand new
lead, until the time you handoff that final deliverable,
final files, whatever that mightbe right.
(06:25):
That is your client journey.
It's different for every typeof business.
It's a different length forevery type of business.
It's going to be different fordifferent kinds of service
providers, depending on what youdo.
So that makes it hard, right?
Because there's no.
Your client journey is sixmonths and three days, and
here's exactly how you split itup and break it up.
You have to know your client,what they need from you and the
(06:46):
service that you provide to theminside and out, to be able to
really identify that clientjourney, if you will, which
sounds super complicated butwill every client have the same
journey?
Oh, good question.
In an ideal world, that's whatyour systems are there for,
right?
So often, though, when we arenew business owners, we are
(07:07):
throwing spaghetti at the walltrying to figure out what that
client journey looks like, and,having been a business owner for
15, 16, 17 years now, I can saythat your client journey often
starts in one place and youthink you have it nailed down,
and then something in yourbusiness changes, and your
client journey changes andevolves a little bit too right?
I want to pause for a minute,because client journey is this
(07:30):
big whole piece from start tofinish, right, but that can be
so overwhelming for smallbusiness owners to figure out
what to do with, if you will,and so I really recommend that,
when you think about your clientjourney, you chunk it up into
different smaller parts, right?
That way, you're not thinkingabout the big thing as a whole,
but smaller pieces, right?
So you've got the inquiry phase,which is lead to booking.
(07:53):
You've got booking, which iswhen they say hey, I want to
give you money to work with you.
That's when you sign thecontract, make things official.
You've got, depending on yourbusiness, you've got onboarding,
or you hop right into I'm goingto call it the development
phase, which could be when yougive the client the thing that
they're paying you to do.
You take that all the waythrough to the offboarding phase
(08:15):
because, let's face it, youdon't just want to hand the
goods over and say see you later.
You've got to like follow up,ask for a review, check in, do
all of these things right.
So a client journey consists ofseveral smaller pieces and
looking at those smaller piecesmakes it so much more easy,
feasible to really dive in anddo the work that needs to be
(08:35):
done in it.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
I think yeah, absolutely so.
As I'm listening to you talk,I'm thinking about the relevance
of a client journey, and one ofthe things that we talk about
on this podcast a lot isbusiness relationships and
networking and referrals arepart of that.
Right, like, our currentclients and our former clients
become part of our network, andour former clients become part
(08:58):
of our network and oftentimes,if we are doing a good job, they
become referral partners for us.
And so when does that likeactually start to matter?
Like when we?
Which part of the clientjourney is it?
Like the moment they reach outto us, that's the beginning of
us creating that connection andstarting to build that like
(09:19):
trust and loyalty.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
So they become referral partners 100%, because
that first connection, thatfirst interaction, can make it
or break it.
You know what I mean.
I don't want to be like it alllies on this and put so much
weight into it, but that's whereyou really set the tone and the
expectation of what it's liketo work with you and of what
they can expect from you, notjust in terms of running your
business, but in terms of, like,what type of human you are and
(09:42):
how you like to communicate andhow you treat people as well too
, and so I think it really doesstart from the very beginning.
I've worked with so manybusiness owners who have a very
and there's no.
Let me preface this by sayingthere's no right or there's no
wrong right.
There's no right way to run abusiness.
There's no right or there's nowrong right.
There's no right way to run abusiness.
There's no right way to have aclient experience.
There's no specific number ofsteps that you need right, but
(10:07):
when you think about your clientjourney and how to really build
a great client experienceespecially if you want to build
a referral out of that, getreferrals out of it and build
your network it's gotta start atthe beginning and you have to
think about every littleinteraction that goes into it,
every piece of communication,everything like that, all the
way until the end, when youactually ask for the referral,
(10:28):
or when your client's like hey,you've got to work with
so-and-so and so-and-so.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
So how do systems play into that whole process and
creating that loyalty from thevery beginning?
Speaker 2 (10:39):
So I love this is, I love how you, I love how you are
leading us here, right?
So you asked earlier, or youmentioned earlier, does every
client have the same journey inyour business?
Yes, that's how you.
That's where systems come intoplay, right?
So say, I'm sitting down andI'm mapping out this workflow
for my clients.
I like to use sticky notesbecause it makes it fun and
(10:59):
colorful and easy to move thingsaround besides the point.
But I'm mapping out this clientworkflow.
I'm thinking of all the stepsthat my clients, for this one
type of service that I have, gothrough.
What are the questions they getasked?
What information do I need fromthem?
What information do they needfrom me?
I want to give everybody thatsame exact service.
(11:19):
That way, if I have two clientsthat know each other, they're
not like oh, I worked withMelissa and she got did this for
me, and the other one's likebut I paid her more than that
and I didn't get that, or Ididn't get that, or you know
what I mean.
And so that can cause confusionabout your business and it can
cause I don't want to say itmakes your clients not trust you
more, but it could cause ussome confusion in there about
(11:42):
what it's really like to workwith you and who you are the
real you with.
And so your systems and yourworkflows come into play,
because you set them up to caterto deliver that exact same
repeatable service to all ofyour clients, no matter what you
have going on in life or whatthey have going on or that kind
of thing.
You want it to be repeatableand consistent and that is how
(12:04):
you really, by nurturing yourclients the same, that's how you
really foster that referralrelationship that you're looking
for.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
Yeah, absolutely, and I'm thinking this in my own
context of my own business.
I've done a lot of work thisyear in getting things automated
and not doing things the waythat I was doing it before.
And I will say like it worksuntil it doesn't work anymore.
Right, like I, when I firstlaunched my Powerful Women
(12:32):
Rising community, I had builtthe sales page on Canva myself.
It took me like a thousandhours, but I did it.
And if you wanted to join, youclicked on the link on Canva
myself.
It took me like a thousandhours, but I did it.
And if you wanted to join, youclicked on the link on the Canva
page.
It took you to like a Googleform that you filled out and
then there was a link on theGoogle form that took you to
Stripe.
You paid on Stripe, you cameback to the Google form.
You did the thing.
It worked fine, right, when Istarted the community and it
(12:53):
worked fine for the first 30, 40, 50 people who joined.
And I remember when I startedthe community and it worked fine
for the first 30, 40, 50 peoplewho joined.
And I remember when I was like,okay, I think I need like an
actual website now, and I washaving a conversation with this
guy about building my websiteand he's like well, how are you
currently doing it?
And I told him what I just toldyou and he's like, okay, how's
(13:14):
that working?
And I was like, well, it wasworking fine, and now I need
something else.
So, like there's nothing wrongwith like doing it that way and
there's nothing wrong with likemanually responding to
everything or whatever it isthat's working for you in the
beginning.
But you'll find there's a pointwhere you're like okay, how I've
(13:35):
been doing this is notsustainable.
Where you're like, okay, howI've been doing this is not
sustainable.
And now I need to get somesystems and processes and
automations in place.
And one of the things that I'vefound since doing that is it
takes a lot of pressure andstress off of me, but it also
establishes with my clients fromthe very beginning, like you're
(13:56):
going to get a response from me, you're going to have the
information that you need.
You're not going to have tolike reach out to me in a week
and be like, hey, I stillhaven't gotten the thing.
What do I do?
So having those things in place, I think that also sets them up
to be happy from the verybeginning, as opposed to like
(14:16):
when you buy something and thenyou're like you buy something
online a course or something andthen a week later you have to
reach out to their customerservice and be like hi, I bought
your course and I never gotanything.
Like that doesn't start therelationship out in a lovely way
.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
No, not at all, and you literally took the example
out of my mouth.
There is nothing worse thanbuying something and be like,
okay, what now?
No, you know, we've all beenthere.
It's the worst feeling ever asto experience that.
Don't, don't let your clientsexperience that.
You know what I mean.
Don't, you can't.
You can do that, yes, but like,don't, don't do that.
(14:57):
Also, I love your point aboutit's okay to do things manually
to a certain point, right?
Um, I worked with a client awhile back and I said why did
you come to me?
What's going on?
She goes well.
My business coach asked me if Igot 50 leads in my inbox today,
if my systems could support that, and I looked at her and I said
they couldn't support fiveleads all at the same time in my
(15:18):
inbox, right, and so you got tothink about that as well too.
I'm not saying that we are allgoing to have that overnight
moment where we open up ourinbox and there are 50 leads
there waiting for us to respondto.
I mean, ideally, yes, right,but like what if that does
happen, can you handle it?
You're going to be writingemails.
If you're doing it manually,can you imagine going through
your process for 50 clients allon the same day at the same time
(15:40):
.
Melissa, it's just bonkers.
And then that client experience.
Some are going to get it, someare going to not going to get it
, some are going to get skippedover.
It's just a nature of beinghuman, and so systems really
help you tailor and make surethat that client experience is
consistent for everybody.
(16:01):
I'm not saying that you have toautomate everything right.
I am personally in proautomation, I love it.
But automate what you'recomfortable with until you get
comfortable with that and thenadd something else on to make
your life a little bit easier,because that's where you're
really going to save so muchtime.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
So let's talk about that automation piece a little
bit, because systems andautomation are not always the
same thing, and I think part ofthe reason that people are
reluctant to set up systems thatinvolve automation is because
they don't want to lose thatpersonal touch and they feel
like it's going to be actually aworse experience for their
(16:41):
client because their client isgoing to feel like they're
talking to a robot, Like we allknow.
We've all gotten the email I'msure I've sent it out before
that says hi in parentheses,first name blah, blah, blah,
blah, blah.
And you're like okay, First ofall, that didn't auto-populate
the way it was supposed to.
And also now I know this islike your automated email that's
(17:06):
going out to everyone, butyou're trying really hard to
make it look like it's going outto me.
And so what do you recommendfor people who want to still
have that high touch clientexperience?
They still want to be likepersonally connected to their
clients and for their clients tofeel personally connected to
them, and also they want systemsin place and automation so that
(17:27):
they don't have to spend alltheir time doing all the things.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
Oh my gosh, I this is one piece of this business that
gets such a bad rap and I loveit so much because there are so
many.
There are so many things thatyou can do, melissa.
The first piece is you shouldnever, you should always.
I hate to should, right?
I don't like to say you shoulddo this, you should do that, I
don't like to should onourselves, right?
But, like you, shouldrealistically update any
(17:52):
templates to be in your brandvoice.
A big part of why automationsget a bad rap and can feel
robotic is because we haven'ttaken the time to make it feel
like we are having a one-on-oneor a face-to-face conversation
with our clients, right?
That's going to come down towriting emails and copywriting
templates and things like that,which I know is not my favorite
thing to do in my business, butit's essential to really make
(18:15):
your clients feel like they'regetting that one-on-one touch
from you.
Write your emails like you'rehaving a conversation with
somebody, right?
Don't just chat GPT it.
I mean, if you're going to usechat GPT, give me some ideas for
this.
Take that idea, tweak it, putit in your brand voice, use
words that you would use havinga conversation with a client.
(18:37):
You know what I mean.
You really have to, like,infuse it with your personality
and then, after you're donewriting it and this sounds so
silly, but like, read the dangthing out loud to see how it
sounds right, because if youread hi, first name, I hope all
is well, blah, blah, blah, blah,blah, blah.
That's how your client's goingto read it too.
Instead of it says, hey girl, Ijust wanted to check in on this
.
Does that feel like a roboticemail that's automated, or does
(18:59):
that feel like a personal reachout?
You know what I mean, and soyou want the components of your
workflows and automations tofeel like you.
The second piece of this mostCRMs, all CRMs on the market,
have what are called customfields, smart fields, custom
variables.
They all call it somethingdifferent, right?
But it's essentially the firstname in brackets, right, that
(19:23):
you can implement throughoutyour copy and your email copy.
Use those, customize them anddon't just use them for first
name and date and delivery dateand things like that.
Create a custom field for theirdog's name or for what they
like to do on the weekends.
I like to ask my clients whatare you going to do when we get
you all this time back, becausethat's the point of workflows.
(19:45):
Oh, I'm going to hang out withmy kids more, I'm going to go on
vacation or that kind of thing,right?
I have a custom field for thatin my workflow so that I can
reference that in these emails,and so then it feels like I took
the time to like really writethis out and it sounds bad
saying I didn't.
But who has time for that?
You know what I mean.
Yeah, no, that's awesome.
So use the custom fields.
(20:05):
Use them to the moon and backif you can, because they make
life so much easier.
Other little things to keep inmind don't send emails at like
one in the morning.
Set your workflows up so thatthey send emails at a normal
person time, right, like 803 or826, instead of eight o'clock on
the dot, just little thingsmake the biggest difference in
(20:28):
the world.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
Yeah, you ready for a pro tip?
I'm going to tell you the protip.
I would love it.
One of my favorite podcastinterviews ever that I've done
was about GIFs and using GIFs inyour marketing and in your
emails.
And Deanna Seymour is the one Iinterviewed.
You should check her out onInstagram or wherever, because
(20:50):
she's amazing and she like afterI did that interview, I like
changed my life.
I try not to overdo it.
I'm like hi, here's anotheremail with another GIF, isn't it
funny?
But I have added them into someof my like sequences and things
like that because I feel likeit's just such it like that's
(21:12):
something that I would send ifyou and I were texting right
Like, I think I'm freakinghilarious and I have friends
that I can have an entireconversation just in GIFs, and
so when I put those in my emails, I feel like that they're
getting a little more sense ofme and like what I like and what
I think is funny and clever,and it makes them feel like more
(21:33):
connected also because it's notjust like here's my robot email
.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
Exactly.
I like to use emojis the sameway In my personal email that I
have when I deliver a finishedbuild to my clients.
It's like this is done, it'sready, I use the Oprah, you get
a card.
You get a card.
You get a card gift.
You know what I mean, causeit's like yeah, I love that.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
I was really sad when chat GPT first started and they
were using like overusing theemojis and everybody was like I
can tell that chat GPT wroteyour post because there's all
these emojis.
And I'm like no bro, I loveemojis.
I was putting those in longbefore chat GPT started.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
Right.
Well, and here's the thingabout chat GPT.
So I'm not above using toolsthat will work for you,
especially for something thatyou like.
If you are having problemswriting and like you have this
nurture sequence to your clients, that you want to fill them
with full of information betweenthe time they book and, let's
say, you're not starting yourproject for six months down the
line.
You got to nurture thoseclients right, and so I'm not
(22:33):
above using a tool like chat GPTto come up with ideas to fill
that of how you can nurture thatclient.
The catch is you want it toknow, you want to feed it the
information.
This is my brand voice.
These are words that I use.
These are words that I don'tuse.
Help me write an email for thisclient at this stage in their
client journey with me.
You know what I mean.
Like don't just say write anemail for this.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
Yeah, no, I love me some chat GPT, but there's also
a way to use it and a way that'snot as great to use it.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
Correct, exactly.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
So what are some mistakes that you see people
making most commonly when theyare trying to build client
loyalty, and how does having theright systems help them avoid
those things?
Speaker 2 (23:25):
That was a big question.
No, it was a big question.
It was a good one, though itwas a good one.
I'm in my brain.
I'm like where do I start withthat one?
Honestly, the biggest mistake isthinking that a high-touch,
nurturing client experiencethat's going to get you
referrals means that you have todo everything on your own right
, automate things, usescheduling tools.
You know what I mean.
(23:46):
A lot of people also make themistake of I wanted to deliver a
super high touch for my client.
I want to deliver a super hightouch experience to my clients,
which means I need to give themaccess to me at all times.
You wouldn't think that accessto you and setting boundaries
has to do with workflows andsystems, but your systems, your
automations, your workflows, theschedulers you use in those
(24:07):
workflows can help you sethealthy mental health boundaries
for you and your business right.
We all want to be available toour clients all the time.
We never want to tell anybodyno.
As a people pleaser, I'm likeyes, I can drop this and do this
right now.
That's not good for you or yourclient.
You know what I mean by using ascheduler and setting
boundaries in your workflowsthat way.
(24:27):
It's good for you and yourclient.
You know what I mean.
Set boundaries.
You are the boss of yourbusiness.
Don't be afraid to limit youraccess to yourself.
That's okay.
I had that conversation with aclient today.
Actually, I was like Val if youonly want to meet on Tuesdays
and Thursdays because you got topick your girlies up from
school, you're the boss.
You can do that, you know.
So not using boundaries is a bigmistake as well, too.
(24:49):
Trying to get everythingperfect in a workflow, in a
system, in a client journey,because you think if it's not
absolutely perfect, there's nochance of a referral.
Right, recovery and perfectionis here, melissa.
Just the truth, just the fact.
Back to the matter book, thebookcase.
Back to the matter book, thebookcase.
Here's the thing, though.
(25:10):
Done is better than perfect.
We talked earlier about how yourclient journey can change and
evolve as your business growsand changes and evolves.
A big mistake I see a lot ofbusiness owners make is thinking
but I'm just new, or I'm justthis or I'm just that, and so I
want to make sure that myexperience is perfect from start
to finish before I startdelivering any of it, because
(25:31):
otherwise what's the point?
The point is you're notdelivering a client experience
at all, you're not doinganything to earn that referral
besides what the client hiredyou for at all right.
So it's better to start smalland evolve that workflow, evolve
that system into what you wantit to be, instead of not
starting at all or notdelivering anything at all.
(25:51):
And again, when it comes togetting referrals from your
clients, that's saying hi, I'mgoing to book you, or you're
going to book me and you'regoing to give me all this money,
and then I'm not going to giveyou information, I'm going to do
the thing and I'm going to handit over and that's it.
Right, that's great.
(26:16):
But what if it's a $10,000coaching experience?
Right.
If you at least try to delivera little bit of a nurturing
workflow using your CRM, that'sgoing to mean the biggest make,
the biggest difference for yourclient and for your experience
and for the potential forreferrals in the long run.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
Yeah, absolutely.
I'm thinking, when you'retalking about that, of a coach
that I recently worked with andshe has like a very robust
automation setup and I workedwith her for six months and each
month we only met like on zoomfor 90 minutes a month.
But she had so many and I knowthey were like they go out to
(26:49):
the same people, it's fine, butso many emails set up on
automation for those six monthsthat were like journal about
this tonight, try this tomorrow.
Have you been thinking aboutthis?
And I could email her back andshe would often respond to me.
But just having those emailsthat I was getting consistently,
(27:09):
like the fact that we only metonce a month, I never felt like
completely disconnected from heror like when we met and we
hadn't met for a month, I neverfelt like, oh, you have no idea
what's going on, and I have noidea what's going on.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
Like.
So it's a really.
It can be a really good way tostay connected with your people,
especially if you's a big gap.
They'll be like but what do Ifill that gap with?
How often do I fill that gap?
One you fill it as often as itfeels good to you, right?
Not overly annoying yourclients, but still consistently
in their inbox, right?
Two, you ask yourself a couple.
Well, there's a couple ofquestions that you want to ask,
(28:05):
right.
What information do I need frommy client?
What information do they needfrom me?
And then, beyond that, what doI wish they knew about what it's
going to be like to worktogether?
What FAQs do clients have?
Take each of those pieces, puttogether a little chit-chatty
email, like we were just talkingabout.
That's super casual.
Pop it off, drop it in yourworkflow.
(28:26):
I assume the emails from yourcoach were super friendly, super
personable.
You know what I mean.
You knew they were automatic,but as a client it didn't bother
you.
It's not going to bother yourclients either.
If you're trying to touch baseand trying to serve them better.
They're just going toappreciate the effort, as
opposed to book, dead silence,nothing.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
You know what I mean Totally.
Yeah, I love this.
It's.
There's so much that we don'tthink about and sometimes these
are the things that we learn.
When we have an unhappy clientthat we're like why are you so
unhappy?
And they're like well, becauseI booked with you three months
ago and then I never heardanything and I had to hunt you
(29:07):
down.
We're like oh, I didn't, like Iwas over here working on your
thing.
I didn't realize you neededsome communication about that.
Like sometimes we just have tolearn that way.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
And sometimes it happens and that's okay.
We all.
Here's the thing.
We all start somewhere.
None of us are ever perfectfrom the get-go.
I've had automation fail.
Was it embarrassing from thesystems person?
Yes, it is what it is.
You know what I mean.
Like we correct, we adjust, weevolve and we move on.
I think, ultimately, as long asyou keep in mind that
(29:39):
experience that you want todeliver to your clients and the
outcome you want them to have,that that can dictate a lot of
everything else along the way,even taking it phase by phase
and thinking about that, youknow.
Speaker 1 (29:53):
Yeah, that's really good.
So if people want to connectwith you, if they want to learn
more about what you do, if theywant to learn more about systems
, if they're listening to thisand they're like, oh my God,
like me.
This is the problem I have withhaving such a great guests
guests on, I would say, likenine out of ten interviews that
I do.
At some point in the interviewin my mind I'm like I need to
(30:14):
hire her.
I definitely need to hire her.
And then my brain's like getyourself under control.
But if someone is listening andthey're like, oh my gosh, I
hate systems and also I needthem.
Where can they find you?
How can they connect with you?
Speaker 2 (30:29):
Sure, so I'm online Instagram website Virtually Done
Systems.
Yes, it's a mouthful, there wasno good abbreviation.
Email is melissa at VirtuallyDone Systems.
I'm typically on Instagram, butyou can also send me a message
through the website and I wouldlove to chat with you to see how
we can get your system sortedout Awesome.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
I love it so much.
I will put the links in theshow notes so people can connect
with you easily, and thank youso much for doing this interview
.
It was very helpful.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
I'm so glad.
Thank you so much for having me.
This was so fun.
Hello Melissa, Welcome to the podcast.
Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
I'm so excited to be here.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
I am excited to talk to you.
Two Melissa's in one podcast ismy favorite thing.
I hate that never happens.
Well, it's happened once before, and I asked that Melissa too.
At the very beginning I waslike you're not a Leo, are you?
No, I'm a Scorpio.
Okay, good, I'm a Leo.
We can't take two Leo Melissa'sin one place.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
No, believe it or not , growing up my best friend, her
name was also Melissa.
So, it's like right, does shespell it?
The same too?
She does.
We called her.
I went to a teeny, tiny highschool Like there were.
We were all in one class.
It was that small.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
And so people called her Mel and people called me
Liss and I still get so mad whenpeople try to call me Mel.
Now Can't do it.
So together you guys were likea whole Melissa.
That's awesome.
Yeah, I see a lot of otherpeople.
I mean, melissa, you must'vebeen an eighties baby, because
Melissa was the thing in theeighties, but a lot of people
don't spell it like we spell it.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
No, they don't Not at all.
We're in the era of weird namespelling.
Yes, that's very safe to say.
Somebody had to spell Brittanyfor me the other day and there
was a Y and two T's and an A andan I and like I was so thrown
off, I was like, wait a minuteBecause we ran out of names, so
we're like we'll just use thesame names and spell them
(01:21):
different.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Oh my gosh, right, okay, so let's get to the point.
I have that problem.
A lot we are talking todayabout about client experiences
and about having systems inplace that improve your client
experiences, why it matters ifyour clients have a good
experience other than theobvious.
(01:43):
But before we dive into some ofthat, why don't you tell
everybody just a little bitabout you, what you do, why
you're the person here talkingabout client experience and
systems?
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Yeah, so I am a.
The formal, super, not funversion is a systems and
operations consultant, right,and my email title?
I kind of call myself a systemssecret weapon.
That's what I prefer, but I ama systems and workflow geek and
nerd and I love it.
I started my business to helpsmall, creative business owners
get their lives back right.
(02:14):
So often creative businessowners they want to focus on
doing the thing that they loveand then, as a byproduct of that
, the other part of running abusiness gets neglected.
I love working with them to bethe other half of their brain,
to get that up to speed so thatthey can actually do more of
what they love withoutneglecting the other half of
their business.
So workflows, automations ohgosh email templates the whole
(02:37):
nine yards whatever we can do tomake your life easier.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
That's what I do I love that.
How did you get into doing thatkind of work?
It I love that.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
How did you get into doing that kind of work?
It's kind of atopsy-turvy-curvy story, if you
will.
They usually are Right.
Right out of college, I workedfor a large healthcare IT
company on a process improvementteam, and so that's where I
initially fell in love withworkflows and workflow mapping
and everything like that.
Fast forward seven years and Iquit my corporate job to run a
(03:04):
wedding photography businesswith my husband, where I learned
about the creative aspect andhow to work with creatives of
all different types and how torun a business and everything
like that.
The pandemic hit and ourwedding business got hit really,
really hard, and so I picked upsome VA work and I realized
that the work that I loved mostdoing with those clients had to
(03:24):
do with systems and workflowsright, and so then I started my
business, and here we are.
I just I love it.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
That's genius Because most entrepreneurs that I talk
to are not like.
The part that I really love issystems and workflows.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
No, this is the really not sexy part of business
that everybody hates and thatnobody likes to spend time on,
but it's honestly like make itor break it.
You know what I mean?
You can't scale without thesystems and operations in place
to support you, so you're not.
You're right about that,Melissa.
100%.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
Well, and what's so cool about what you do too as I
was just having thisconversation with somebody else
this morning is so many of uslike, when we got into
entrepreneurship, it wasn'tbecause we wanted to do sales
and marketing and build funnelsand automations and email
sequences and, like, do our ownbookkeeping.
Like that was none of the stuffwe wanted to do.
(04:21):
We wanted to make the thing orprovide the service, help the
people, talk to, whatever.
And then we get intoentrepreneurship and we realize,
okay, we actually have to doall of those other things too,
and I don't want to Right,exactly, exactly.
Not only do I not want to, butI also don't really have the
time to teach myself to do right.
(04:43):
Like I got to teach myself tobe a bookkeeper, I got to teach
myself to be a online marketer,I got to teach myself to be a
social media, whatever.
Like I.
Nobody has time to learn to doall the things.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
So we are really glad you exist.
Well, and nobody has to have,like the brain power to do all
of that.
You know what I mean andhonestly I said I was a wedding
photographer for 15 years.
I never identified as being acreative.
You know what I mean and so Ifeel like I understand that
world well enough to be able toget into creative people's
(05:16):
brains and pull out what we needto pull out to make their lives
easier and to make theirbusinesses run smoother, while
making it not super painful forthem.
If you will.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
I love that.
That's awesome.
So let's talk first about thisphrase client journey because I
feel like this is something thatwe hear a lot.
We hear business coachestalking about it.
It's kind of sometimes abuzzword that everybody's like
oh yeah, the client journey.
And so many people are like, ohyeah, I have a client journey.
But all of us, I feel likesecretly, are like what are we?
(05:49):
What is like?
Is the client journey just like, oh, she signed up for a
consult and then she booked withme and now she's my client and
now this is how I offboard her.
Like is that what we're talkingabout?
Speaker 2 (06:01):
I love this question so much because you are so right
.
It's something that getsskipped over so often.
Right, it gets used, but thenthere's no how-to explanation
for it.
So I consider the clientjourney to be every interaction
that you have with your client,from the time they inquire, so
before they're a client right,when they're just a brand new
lead, until the time you handoff that final deliverable,
final files, whatever that mightbe right.
(06:25):
That is your client journey.
It's different for every typeof business.
It's a different length forevery type of business.
It's going to be different fordifferent kinds of service
providers, depending on what youdo.
So that makes it hard, right?
Because there's no.
Your client journey is sixmonths and three days, and
here's exactly how you split itup and break it up.
You have to know your client,what they need from you and the
(06:46):
service that you provide to theminside and out, to be able to
really identify that clientjourney, if you will, which
sounds super complicated butwill every client have the same
journey?
Oh, good question.
In an ideal world, that's whatyour systems are there for,
right?
So often, though, when we arenew business owners, we are
(07:07):
throwing spaghetti at the walltrying to figure out what that
client journey looks like, and,having been a business owner for
15, 16, 17 years now, I can saythat your client journey often
starts in one place and youthink you have it nailed down,
and then something in yourbusiness changes, and your
client journey changes andevolves a little bit too right?
I want to pause for a minute,because client journey is this
(07:30):
big whole piece from start tofinish, right, but that can be
so overwhelming for smallbusiness owners to figure out
what to do with, if you will,and so I really recommend that,
when you think about your clientjourney, you chunk it up into
different smaller parts, right?
That way, you're not thinkingabout the big thing as a whole,
but smaller pieces, right?
So you've got the inquiry phase,which is lead to booking.
(07:53):
You've got booking, which iswhen they say hey, I want to
give you money to work with you.
That's when you sign thecontract, make things official.
You've got, depending on yourbusiness, you've got onboarding,
or you hop right into I'm goingto call it the development
phase, which could be when yougive the client the thing that
they're paying you to do.
You take that all the waythrough to the offboarding phase
(08:15):
because, let's face it, youdon't just want to hand the
goods over and say see you later.
You've got to like follow up,ask for a review, check in, do
all of these things right.
So a client journey consists ofseveral smaller pieces and
looking at those smaller piecesmakes it so much more easy,
feasible to really dive in anddo the work that needs to be
(08:35):
done in it.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
I think yeah, absolutely so.
As I'm listening to you talk,I'm thinking about the relevance
of a client journey, and one ofthe things that we talk about
on this podcast a lot isbusiness relationships and
networking and referrals arepart of that.
Right, like, our currentclients and our former clients
become part of our network, andour former clients become part
(08:58):
of our network and oftentimes,if we are doing a good job, they
become referral partners for us.
And so when does that likeactually start to matter?
Like when we?
Which part of the clientjourney is it?
Like the moment they reach outto us, that's the beginning of
us creating that connection andstarting to build that like
(09:19):
trust and loyalty.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
So they become referral partners 100%, because
that first connection, thatfirst interaction, can make it
or break it.
You know what I mean.
I don't want to be like it alllies on this and put so much
weight into it, but that's whereyou really set the tone and the
expectation of what it's liketo work with you and of what
they can expect from you, notjust in terms of running your
business, but in terms of, like,what type of human you are and
(09:42):
how you like to communicate andhow you treat people as well too
, and so I think it really doesstart from the very beginning.
I've worked with so manybusiness owners who have a very
and there's no.
Let me preface this by sayingthere's no right or there's no
wrong right.
There's no right way to run abusiness.
There's no right or there's nowrong right.
There's no right way to run abusiness.
There's no right way to have aclient experience.
There's no specific number ofsteps that you need right, but
(10:07):
when you think about your clientjourney and how to really build
a great client experienceespecially if you want to build
a referral out of that, getreferrals out of it and build
your network it's gotta start atthe beginning and you have to
think about every littleinteraction that goes into it,
every piece of communication,everything like that, all the
way until the end, when youactually ask for the referral,
(10:28):
or when your client's like hey,you've got to work with
so-and-so and so-and-so.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
So how do systems play into that whole process and
creating that loyalty from thevery beginning?
Speaker 2 (10:39):
So I love this is, I love how you, I love how you are
leading us here, right?
So you asked earlier, or youmentioned earlier, does every
client have the same journey inyour business?
Yes, that's how you.
That's where systems come intoplay, right?
So say, I'm sitting down andI'm mapping out this workflow
for my clients.
I like to use sticky notesbecause it makes it fun and
(10:59):
colorful and easy to move thingsaround besides the point.
But I'm mapping out this clientworkflow.
I'm thinking of all the stepsthat my clients, for this one
type of service that I have, gothrough.
What are the questions they getasked?
What information do I need fromthem?
What information do they needfrom me?
I want to give everybody thatsame exact service.
(11:19):
That way, if I have two clientsthat know each other, they're
not like oh, I worked withMelissa and she got did this for
me, and the other one's likebut I paid her more than that
and I didn't get that, or Ididn't get that, or you know
what I mean.
And so that can cause confusionabout your business and it can
cause I don't want to say itmakes your clients not trust you
more, but it could cause ussome confusion in there about
(11:42):
what it's really like to workwith you and who you are the
real you with.
And so your systems and yourworkflows come into play,
because you set them up to caterto deliver that exact same
repeatable service to all ofyour clients, no matter what you
have going on in life or whatthey have going on or that kind
of thing.
You want it to be repeatableand consistent and that is how
(12:04):
you really, by nurturing yourclients the same, that's how you
really foster that referralrelationship that you're looking
for.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
Yeah, absolutely, and I'm thinking this in my own
context of my own business.
I've done a lot of work thisyear in getting things automated
and not doing things the waythat I was doing it before.
And I will say like it worksuntil it doesn't work anymore.
Right, like I, when I firstlaunched my Powerful Women
(12:32):
Rising community, I had builtthe sales page on Canva myself.
It took me like a thousandhours, but I did it.
And if you wanted to join, youclicked on the link on Canva
myself.
It took me like a thousandhours, but I did it.
And if you wanted to join, youclicked on the link on the Canva
page.
It took you to like a Googleform that you filled out and
then there was a link on theGoogle form that took you to
Stripe.
You paid on Stripe, you cameback to the Google form.
You did the thing.
It worked fine, right, when Istarted the community and it
(12:53):
worked fine for the first 30, 40, 50 people who joined.
And I remember when I startedthe community and it worked fine
for the first 30, 40, 50 peoplewho joined.
And I remember when I was like,okay, I think I need like an
actual website now, and I washaving a conversation with this
guy about building my websiteand he's like well, how are you
currently doing it?
And I told him what I just toldyou and he's like, okay, how's
(13:14):
that working?
And I was like, well, it wasworking fine, and now I need
something else.
So, like there's nothing wrongwith like doing it that way and
there's nothing wrong with likemanually responding to
everything or whatever it isthat's working for you in the
beginning.
But you'll find there's a pointwhere you're like okay, how I've
(13:35):
been doing this is notsustainable.
Where you're like, okay, howI've been doing this is not
sustainable.
And now I need to get somesystems and processes and
automations in place.
And one of the things that I'vefound since doing that is it
takes a lot of pressure andstress off of me, but it also
establishes with my clients fromthe very beginning, like you're
(13:56):
going to get a response from me, you're going to have the
information that you need.
You're not going to have tolike reach out to me in a week
and be like, hey, I stillhaven't gotten the thing.
What do I do?
So having those things in place, I think that also sets them up
to be happy from the verybeginning, as opposed to like
(14:16):
when you buy something and thenyou're like you buy something
online a course or something andthen a week later you have to
reach out to their customerservice and be like hi, I bought
your course and I never gotanything.
Like that doesn't start therelationship out in a lovely way
.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
No, not at all, and you literally took the example
out of my mouth.
There is nothing worse thanbuying something and be like,
okay, what now?
No, you know, we've all beenthere.
It's the worst feeling ever asto experience that.
Don't, don't let your clientsexperience that.
You know what I mean.
Don't, you can't.
You can do that, yes, but like,don't, don't do that.
(14:57):
Also, I love your point aboutit's okay to do things manually
to a certain point, right?
Um, I worked with a client awhile back and I said why did
you come to me?
What's going on?
She goes well.
My business coach asked me if Igot 50 leads in my inbox today,
if my systems could support that, and I looked at her and I said
they couldn't support fiveleads all at the same time in my
(15:18):
inbox, right, and so you got tothink about that as well too.
I'm not saying that we are allgoing to have that overnight
moment where we open up ourinbox and there are 50 leads
there waiting for us to respondto.
I mean, ideally, yes, right,but like what if that does
happen, can you handle it?
You're going to be writingemails.
If you're doing it manually,can you imagine going through
your process for 50 clients allon the same day at the same time
(15:40):
.
Melissa, it's just bonkers.
And then that client experience.
Some are going to get it, someare going to not going to get it
, some are going to get skippedover.
It's just a nature of beinghuman, and so systems really
help you tailor and make surethat that client experience is
consistent for everybody.
(16:01):
I'm not saying that you have toautomate everything right.
I am personally in proautomation, I love it.
But automate what you'recomfortable with until you get
comfortable with that and thenadd something else on to make
your life a little bit easier,because that's where you're
really going to save so muchtime.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
So let's talk about that automation piece a little
bit, because systems andautomation are not always the
same thing, and I think part ofthe reason that people are
reluctant to set up systems thatinvolve automation is because
they don't want to lose thatpersonal touch and they feel
like it's going to be actually aworse experience for their
(16:41):
client because their client isgoing to feel like they're
talking to a robot, Like we allknow.
We've all gotten the email I'msure I've sent it out before
that says hi in parentheses,first name blah, blah, blah,
blah, blah.
And you're like okay, First ofall, that didn't auto-populate
the way it was supposed to.
And also now I know this islike your automated email that's
(17:06):
going out to everyone, butyou're trying really hard to
make it look like it's going outto me.
And so what do you recommendfor people who want to still
have that high touch clientexperience?
They still want to be likepersonally connected to their
clients and for their clients tofeel personally connected to
them, and also they want systemsin place and automation so that
(17:27):
they don't have to spend alltheir time doing all the things.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
Oh my gosh, I this is one piece of this business that
gets such a bad rap and I loveit so much because there are so
many.
There are so many things thatyou can do, melissa.
The first piece is you shouldnever, you should always.
I hate to should, right?
I don't like to say you shoulddo this, you should do that, I
don't like to should onourselves, right?
But, like you, shouldrealistically update any
(17:52):
templates to be in your brandvoice.
A big part of why automationsget a bad rap and can feel
robotic is because we haven'ttaken the time to make it feel
like we are having a one-on-oneor a face-to-face conversation
with our clients, right?
That's going to come down towriting emails and copywriting
templates and things like that,which I know is not my favorite
thing to do in my business, butit's essential to really make
(18:15):
your clients feel like they'regetting that one-on-one touch
from you.
Write your emails like you'rehaving a conversation with
somebody, right?
Don't just chat GPT it.
I mean, if you're going to usechat GPT, give me some ideas for
this.
Take that idea, tweak it, putit in your brand voice, use
words that you would use havinga conversation with a client.
(18:37):
You know what I mean.
You really have to, like,infuse it with your personality
and then, after you're donewriting it and this sounds so
silly, but like, read the dangthing out loud to see how it
sounds right, because if youread hi, first name, I hope all
is well, blah, blah, blah, blah,blah, blah.
That's how your client's goingto read it too.
Instead of it says, hey girl, Ijust wanted to check in on this
.
Does that feel like a roboticemail that's automated, or does
(18:59):
that feel like a personal reachout?
You know what I mean, and soyou want the components of your
workflows and automations tofeel like you.
The second piece of this mostCRMs, all CRMs on the market,
have what are called customfields, smart fields, custom
variables.
They all call it somethingdifferent, right?
But it's essentially the firstname in brackets, right, that
(19:23):
you can implement throughoutyour copy and your email copy.
Use those, customize them anddon't just use them for first
name and date and delivery dateand things like that.
Create a custom field for theirdog's name or for what they
like to do on the weekends.
I like to ask my clients whatare you going to do when we get
you all this time back, becausethat's the point of workflows.
(19:45):
Oh, I'm going to hang out withmy kids more, I'm going to go on
vacation or that kind of thing,right?
I have a custom field for thatin my workflow so that I can
reference that in these emails,and so then it feels like I took
the time to like really writethis out and it sounds bad
saying I didn't.
But who has time for that?
You know what I mean.
Yeah, no, that's awesome.
So use the custom fields.
(20:05):
Use them to the moon and backif you can, because they make
life so much easier.
Other little things to keep inmind don't send emails at like
one in the morning.
Set your workflows up so thatthey send emails at a normal
person time, right, like 803 or826, instead of eight o'clock on
the dot, just little thingsmake the biggest difference in
(20:28):
the world.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
Yeah, you ready for a pro tip?
I'm going to tell you the protip.
I would love it.
One of my favorite podcastinterviews ever that I've done
was about GIFs and using GIFs inyour marketing and in your
emails.
And Deanna Seymour is the one Iinterviewed.
You should check her out onInstagram or wherever, because
(20:50):
she's amazing and she like afterI did that interview, I like
changed my life.
I try not to overdo it.
I'm like hi, here's anotheremail with another GIF, isn't it
funny?
But I have added them into someof my like sequences and things
like that because I feel likeit's just such it like that's
(21:12):
something that I would send ifyou and I were texting right
Like, I think I'm freakinghilarious and I have friends
that I can have an entireconversation just in GIFs, and
so when I put those in my emails, I feel like that they're
getting a little more sense ofme and like what I like and what
I think is funny and clever,and it makes them feel like more
(21:33):
connected also because it's notjust like here's my robot email
.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
Exactly.
I like to use emojis the sameway In my personal email that I
have when I deliver a finishedbuild to my clients.
It's like this is done, it'sready, I use the Oprah, you get
a card.
You get a card.
You get a card gift.
You know what I mean, causeit's like yeah, I love that.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
I was really sad when chat GPT first started and they
were using like overusing theemojis and everybody was like I
can tell that chat GPT wroteyour post because there's all
these emojis.
And I'm like no bro, I loveemojis.
I was putting those in longbefore chat GPT started.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
Right.
Well, and here's the thingabout chat GPT.
So I'm not above using toolsthat will work for you,
especially for something thatyou like.
If you are having problemswriting and like you have this
nurture sequence to your clients, that you want to fill them
with full of information betweenthe time they book and, let's
say, you're not starting yourproject for six months down the
line.
You got to nurture thoseclients right, and so I'm not
(22:33):
above using a tool like chat GPTto come up with ideas to fill
that of how you can nurture thatclient.
The catch is you want it toknow, you want to feed it the
information.
This is my brand voice.
These are words that I use.
These are words that I don'tuse.
Help me write an email for thisclient at this stage in their
client journey with me.
You know what I mean.
Like don't just say write anemail for this.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
Yeah, no, I love me some chat GPT, but there's also
a way to use it and a way that'snot as great to use it.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
Correct, exactly.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
So what are some mistakes that you see people
making most commonly when theyare trying to build client
loyalty, and how does having theright systems help them avoid
those things?
Speaker 2 (23:25):
That was a big question.
No, it was a big question.
It was a good one, though itwas a good one.
I'm in my brain.
I'm like where do I start withthat one?
Honestly, the biggest mistake isthinking that a high-touch,
nurturing client experiencethat's going to get you
referrals means that you have todo everything on your own right
, automate things, usescheduling tools.
You know what I mean.
(23:46):
A lot of people also make themistake of I wanted to deliver a
super high touch for my client.
I want to deliver a super hightouch experience to my clients,
which means I need to give themaccess to me at all times.
You wouldn't think that accessto you and setting boundaries
has to do with workflows andsystems, but your systems, your
automations, your workflows, theschedulers you use in those
(24:07):
workflows can help you sethealthy mental health boundaries
for you and your business right.
We all want to be available toour clients all the time.
We never want to tell anybodyno.
As a people pleaser, I'm likeyes, I can drop this and do this
right now.
That's not good for you or yourclient.
You know what I mean by using ascheduler and setting
boundaries in your workflowsthat way.
(24:27):
It's good for you and yourclient.
You know what I mean.
Set boundaries.
You are the boss of yourbusiness.
Don't be afraid to limit youraccess to yourself.
That's okay.
I had that conversation with aclient today.
Actually, I was like Val if youonly want to meet on Tuesdays
and Thursdays because you got topick your girlies up from
school, you're the boss.
You can do that, you know.
So not using boundaries is a bigmistake as well, too.
(24:49):
Trying to get everythingperfect in a workflow, in a
system, in a client journey,because you think if it's not
absolutely perfect, there's nochance of a referral.
Right, recovery and perfectionis here, melissa.
Just the truth, just the fact.
Back to the matter book, thebookcase.
Back to the matter book, thebookcase.
Here's the thing, though.
(25:10):
Done is better than perfect.
We talked earlier about how yourclient journey can change and
evolve as your business growsand changes and evolves.
A big mistake I see a lot ofbusiness owners make is thinking
but I'm just new, or I'm justthis or I'm just that, and so I
want to make sure that myexperience is perfect from start
to finish before I startdelivering any of it, because
(25:31):
otherwise what's the point?
The point is you're notdelivering a client experience
at all, you're not doinganything to earn that referral
besides what the client hiredyou for at all right.
So it's better to start smalland evolve that workflow, evolve
that system into what you wantit to be, instead of not
starting at all or notdelivering anything at all.
(25:51):
And again, when it comes togetting referrals from your
clients, that's saying hi, I'mgoing to book you, or you're
going to book me and you'regoing to give me all this money,
and then I'm not going to giveyou information, I'm going to do
the thing and I'm going to handit over and that's it.
Right, that's great.
(26:16):
But what if it's a $10,000coaching experience?
Right.
If you at least try to delivera little bit of a nurturing
workflow using your CRM, that'sgoing to mean the biggest make,
the biggest difference for yourclient and for your experience
and for the potential forreferrals in the long run.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
Yeah, absolutely.
I'm thinking, when you'retalking about that, of a coach
that I recently worked with andshe has like a very robust
automation setup and I workedwith her for six months and each
month we only met like on zoomfor 90 minutes a month.
But she had so many and I knowthey were like they go out to
(26:49):
the same people, it's fine, butso many emails set up on
automation for those six monthsthat were like journal about
this tonight, try this tomorrow.
Have you been thinking aboutthis?
And I could email her back andshe would often respond to me.
But just having those emailsthat I was getting consistently,
(27:09):
like the fact that we only metonce a month, I never felt like
completely disconnected from heror like when we met and we
hadn't met for a month, I neverfelt like, oh, you have no idea
what's going on, and I have noidea what's going on.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
Like.
So it's a really.
It can be a really good way tostay connected with your people,
especially if you's a big gap.
They'll be like but what do Ifill that gap with?
How often do I fill that gap?
One you fill it as often as itfeels good to you, right?
Not overly annoying yourclients, but still consistently
in their inbox, right?
Two, you ask yourself a couple.
Well, there's a couple ofquestions that you want to ask,
(28:05):
right.
What information do I need frommy client?
What information do they needfrom me?
And then, beyond that, what doI wish they knew about what it's
going to be like to worktogether?
What FAQs do clients have?
Take each of those pieces, puttogether a little chit-chatty
email, like we were just talkingabout.
That's super casual.
Pop it off, drop it in yourworkflow.
(28:26):
I assume the emails from yourcoach were super friendly, super
personable.
You know what I mean.
You knew they were automatic,but as a client it didn't bother
you.
It's not going to bother yourclients either.
If you're trying to touch baseand trying to serve them better.
They're just going toappreciate the effort, as
opposed to book, dead silence,nothing.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
You know what I mean Totally.
Yeah, I love this.
It's.
There's so much that we don'tthink about and sometimes these
are the things that we learn.
When we have an unhappy clientthat we're like why are you so
unhappy?
And they're like well, becauseI booked with you three months
ago and then I never heardanything and I had to hunt you
(29:07):
down.
We're like oh, I didn't, like Iwas over here working on your
thing.
I didn't realize you neededsome communication about that.
Like sometimes we just have tolearn that way.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
And sometimes it happens and that's okay.
We all.
Here's the thing.
We all start somewhere.
None of us are ever perfectfrom the get-go.
I've had automation fail.
Was it embarrassing from thesystems person?
Yes, it is what it is.
You know what I mean.
Like we correct, we adjust, weevolve and we move on.
I think, ultimately, as long asyou keep in mind that
(29:39):
experience that you want todeliver to your clients and the
outcome you want them to have,that that can dictate a lot of
everything else along the way,even taking it phase by phase
and thinking about that, youknow.
Speaker 1 (29:53):
Yeah, that's really good.
So if people want to connectwith you, if they want to learn
more about what you do, if theywant to learn more about systems
, if they're listening to thisand they're like, oh my God,
like me.
This is the problem I have withhaving such a great guests
guests on, I would say, likenine out of ten interviews that
I do.
At some point in the interviewin my mind I'm like I need to
(30:14):
hire her.
I definitely need to hire her.
And then my brain's like getyourself under control.
But if someone is listening andthey're like, oh my gosh, I
hate systems and also I needthem.
Where can they find you?
How can they connect with you?
Speaker 2 (30:29):
Sure, so I'm online Instagram website Virtually Done
Systems.
Yes, it's a mouthful, there wasno good abbreviation.
Email is melissa at VirtuallyDone Systems.
I'm typically on Instagram, butyou can also send me a message
through the website and I wouldlove to chat with you to see how
we can get your system sortedout Awesome.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
I love it so much.
I will put the links in theshow notes so people can connect
with you easily, and thank youso much for doing this interview
.
It was very helpful.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
I'm so glad.
Thank you so much for having me.
This was so fun.
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