March 10, 2025 • 41 mins
Tired of feeling like you’re always behind, no matter how much you do?
I feel you. That's why in this episode I've brought in the big guns: Productivity Expert Lisa Zawrotny. In this interview, Lisa offers a refreshing new perspective on what it means to be productive and how to create a workflow that supports your well-being and your goals.
In this episode, we cover:
- What shame-free productivity really means
- How to identify and clear both physical and mental clutter
- Why traditional to-do lists fail—and how to use a to-choose list instead
- The role of core values in prioritizing your time and energy
- Productivity strategies tailored for neurodiverse individuals (including those with ADHD)
Tune in for actionable strategies, mindset shifts, and permission to do less so you can actually enjoy your life.
Links & References:
- Join us at our next PWR Virtual Speed Networking Event!
- For even deeper connections, check out the Powerful Women Rising Community!
- Connect with Lisa, check out her amazing resources and listen to her podcast at https://positivelyproductive.com
Loved the episode? Here are four ways you can show your support:
1. Buy me a coffee to show your appreciation!
2. Leave a five-star review
3. DM me on Instagram and let me know
4. Share it with a friend!
Connect with Your Host!
Melissa Snow is a Business Relationship Strategist dedicated to empowering women in entrepreneurship. She founded the Powerful Women Rising Community, which provides female business owners with essential support and resources for business growth.
Melissa's other mission is to revolutionize networking, promoting authenticity and genuine connections over sleazy sales tactics. She runs an incredible monthly Virtual Speed Networking Event which you can attend once at no cost using the code FIRSTTIME
She lives in Colorado Springs with two girl dogs, two boy cats and any number of foster kittens. She loves iced coffee, Taylor Swift, and Threads.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hello Lisa, Welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Thank you, Melissa.
It's my pleasure to be here.
I can't wait to dig in.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Good, I'm so excited to have you here talking about
productivity, no less.
But before we dig in, telleverybody a little bit about you
and about what you do.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Thank you for asking.
Hi, I'm Lisa Zerotny.
I'm a productivity coach, thefounder of Positively Productive
Systems and the host of thePositively Living podcast.
And I a productivity coach, thefounder of Positively
Productive Systems and the hostof the Positively Living podcast
, and I help my clients reducethe overwhelm, manage the stress
and find the sustainablesolutions, and we do this with
compassion and humor.
This is shame-free productivity.
(00:39):
It's time to make things easierand do things our way, and I
walk my own talk because I am amom and a wife and a business
owner and a caregiver.
And then one of my favoritethings to do to hide away from
the world would be hanging outin a cozy spot with a good book
(00:59):
and iced coffee and definitelytrapped under a cat.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
You had me at iced coffee and then you added cat
and I just instantly fell inlove with you there.
Me at iced coffee, and then youadded cat and I just instantly
fell in love with you there wereyeah, and if you like, tacos,
we are now besties and we'regood to go.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Okay, here we go.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
Okay, so let's dive into productivity.
I'm super excited for thisconversation because it's funny
we're talking now because I justgot off a call with an
executive function coach and wewere talking about ADHD and
neurodivergence and thechallenges that many people have
with being productive, orprocrastination or feeling like
you're lazy, but really it'sjust how your brain is wired and
(01:33):
all of the different things.
And I'm one of those peoplelike I'm listening to your
introduction and you saidsomething about systems and I
just like instantly startedgetting hives just because you
said systems.
So I'm very excited about thisinterview.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Good, and also what I said is shame free productivity
.
So I love that you brought upneurodiversity, because those
really are my people.
I live in a sea of ADHD and Ithink one of the reasons that I
started to attract ADHD peopleis that I understand it, I get
(02:08):
it and I know that there's abetter way.
You have superpowers, so let'sstop pretending like that's a
problem.
The problem are theproductivity solutions that are
out there.
These are my thoughts.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
I love it.
So when we're talking aboutproductivity, tell us your
definition of that word, sowe're at least all on the same
page.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
Yeah, absolutely so.
The idea of productivityoriginally came from the
industrial revolution and it'ssort of that do more, right, we
have this amount of time.
How do we get more things done,get more things created in this
amount of time?
And now what I want you to dois think about this information
age and how.
We're about quality notquantity.
(02:50):
So now being productive meansbeing able to get the stuff you
need to get done so that you canmake the space for the things
that you want to do and that youneed to do for your, your soul
and your spirit and your energythat you need to do for your
soul and your spirit and yourenergy.
It's about living your bestlife, and that sounds cliche,
(03:11):
but really it's about living ina way that makes you feel like
you and that you feel good andproud and accomplished.
You're achieving the goals thatyou want, but you're not doing
it in such a difficult way.
So that's my take onproductivity doing the right
things at the right time, theright way for you.
I love that.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
That's a great definition, cause I think a lot
of times when we think ofproductivity, we think about
like how do I do more so I cando more?
Yeah, right, and we are sayinghow do I do more so I can do
more, but do more of the thingsthat I love, do more of the
things that bring me joy, domore of the things that are
really what I'm here to do, asopposed to like how do I get
(03:53):
more done so I can go marketsome more or post more on social
media, or like do more work?
Speaker 2 (04:01):
Yeah, not do more so that you could do more work, but
do more so that you can livemore.
The mantra of PositivelyProductive is to do less, live
more and breathe easier.
So, yeah, you're absolutelyright.
We're not trying to do more, inthat, it's get more done.
And part of that, or at leastpart of my coaching, is also
(04:22):
being discerning about whatreally needs to be done, because
we get in a busy trap.
Yeah, we can feel like we'redoing a lot, but are we really
productive?
Speaker 1 (04:31):
Yes, amen to that, says everyone.
Who's ever had one of thosedays where I'm like man, I was
so busy all day today, and thenmy husband's like what'd you do?
And I'm like not really sure,but I was really busy, I did a
lot, I did a lot of things.
So one of the things that youtalk about a lot is the idea of
(04:52):
whole life decluttering.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
Tell us, what that is and how that relates to
productivity Great.
So, just like you asked aboutproductivity and let's be on the
same page with defining itlet's define clutter and I love
to use Peter Walsh's quote whichis clutter is not just the
stuff on the floor, it'sanything that stands between you
and the life you want to beliving.
So, again, anything that standsbetween you and the life you
(05:20):
want to be living so that meansclutter in this context is a
block of some kind.
So that also means that noteverything that everybody else
may think is clutter let's usethe air quotes now is
necessarily clutter.
For you, it is, once again,self-defined and that's really
important.
(05:41):
But when you do find the thingsthat are blocking you, that kind
of clutter and that could bephysical stuff strewn about your
space, it could be all thestuff you are carrying in your
brain Hello, hashtag mental load, especially for caregivers.
It could be, yeah, physicalmental space, anything like that
.
That's the stuff that's goingto trigger guilt, it's going to
(06:02):
be constantly distracting youfrom being present.
It's going to make you feeloverwhelmed all the time.
It's going to therefore takeyour focus away and not allow
you to actually be productivewith the time that you have, and
it is the thing that makes youend up being very busy and
spinning your wheels and thenbeing like what did I actually
(06:24):
accomplish?
Speaker 1 (06:25):
So if somebody is listening to this and they're
like, yes, I relate to thatdefinition.
Whatever their definition ofclutter is right, but they're
like listening to you talk andthey're like, yes, I've got that
in my brain or in my office orin my life, what are some things
that people can start doingright now, like simple steps
people can start taking now thatcan help them get rid of some
(06:47):
of that clutter and be lessoverwhelmed?
Speaker 2 (06:50):
So the first thing is , of course, acknowledging that
it is, in fact, clutter, andunderstanding okay, this is
getting in my way.
And also, maybe, acknowledgingthe things that aren't.
Hello, my book lovers, right,maybe you know if that makes you
happy, if it's what you want inyour space and surrounding you.
Now we're talking physicalenvironment, because that's an
(07:11):
easy place to start.
You want to make sure you'resurrounded by the things that
make you happy, that inspire you, that energize you, because
that will make you productive.
So go ahead and tell the peoplewho are like you have too many
books to kick rocks.
Okay, that's not a thing.
But do identify the placeswhere you're like wow, that's
just, it's like we just said inthe green room, it's just like a
(07:34):
lot.
When that feels like whatyou're feeling, it's a matter of
saying okay then, what do Iwant this space for?
And I think that's a greatfirst question, even if it's
mental clutter as well Like whatdo I need to be focusing on
right now?
Okay, then I need to pull outthe things that are getting in
(07:54):
my way.
So in the physical space,there's a lot of different ways
that you can do that, butidentifying what you want to use
the space for is your firststep, and I do have a lot of
resources, a framework fordecluttering.
That's all free on my podcast,so that's stuff that you can
absolutely look up and see.
But saying, okay, what do Iwant the space for?
(08:15):
Great.
And then, on the mental side,what do I want the space for?
Well, I want it to be fullypresent, I want my mind to be
present, I want the brain fog togo away, I want the
distractions to go away so I canfocus, and on that side, the
decluttering would be somethingyou would call a mind sweep.
Now that's David Allen's phrasefrom the framework Getting
(08:38):
Things Done, and I do followthat somewhat.
I've kind of made it my own, asI recommend everybody does.
Sometimes people would callthat a brain dump.
So that's another way if it'son the mental side, and that is
as simple as taking a notebookand taking everything that has
your attention and putting itdown there.
That is step one, but there'ssome important steps after that
(09:02):
if we're talking on the mentalside, and I'm sure we'll get
into it.
But yeah, first steps would bewhat do I want this space for?
And let me remove the itemsthat immediately don't belong.
Okay.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
I love that Does that make sense.
It does, and we're kind oftalking about two different
things at the same time, right,like the physical, actual
cluttered space, and then alsothe clutter in our brain.
And I love that, because Ithink people don't usually think
of clutter in terms of what'shappening in their brain.
But I will tell you, there's alot more clutter in my brain
than there is in my office.
(09:35):
But I also think that's one ofthe reasons I'm so obsessed with
not having clutter.
Like my poor husband, he'lllike set a glass down on the
kitchen counter halfway throughhis drink and then he comes back
for it and it's gone.
And I'm like he's like where'smy drink?
I'm like it was on the counter.
He's like that's where it goes.
I'm like, no, nothing goes onthe counter.
And it's probably becausethere's so much in my brain that
(09:55):
having clutter in the physicalspace is like too much.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
Yes, you have hit a very important point and a
correlation here, and the waythat I phrase it is that the red
carpet and couldn't figure outwhat to wear.
It's like a daily thing now,but it's not normally like that.
It can hint to you that yourschedule is over full and
sometimes you just know, oh,we're in a busy season.
It's a little crazy pants rightnow and this weekend I'll take
a little extra time and reset it, bring it back to neutral.
(10:41):
And other times it can be likelike this is getting worse and
worse.
I'm trending in the wrongdirection.
Let me catch that.
So sometimes it can be a clue,sometimes it can be a
manifestation, especiallyphysically.
But to your point, yeah, youare looking to make sure that
your environment is as conduciveas possible, because it sounds
like the you know, internalworkings is where you have so
(11:06):
much clutter.
And for those of us who love tohave ideas, like I, I'm multi
passionate and I all the ideasand, again, anyone who's
neurodiverse probably does thatbecause you're making
connections and creating all thetime and you can't help it.
So you want to make sure youhave enough space to do that.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
Yeah, absolutely.
I've talked about this beforeon the podcast.
I did an episode several monthsago about shiny object syndrome
and one of the things I said onthere was my VA finally created
a Slack channel for us that'sjust called Brain Dump, and
she's like every time you have agreat idea, I want you to just
put it in here, just put it inthe folder, and I put them in
(11:51):
there and sometimes I come backto them and I'm like, yeah, that
actually wasn't that great ofan idea.
Sometimes I come back to themand I'm like this is a great
idea, let's make it happen.
But at least to have somewhereto just like get it out of my
brain is super helpful.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
I love that.
Snaps to your VA for suggestingthat system.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
See, that's a system.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
We need to not be afraid of the word system.
A system can be.
I'm writing things down in anotebook so I don't feel like
I'm constantly having toremember, because that never
works.
So that's great and that's likethe.
Sometimes people will call thata parking lot, where you're
just like setting it somewhere.
You know long-term parkingright and then you come back to
it.
And what I love about that isit's not distracting you,
(12:31):
pulling you away from what youcurrently need to be focusing on
, but you and also and the otheraspect of this is you could be
like oh, I had that great idea,what was it?
Now you're like so frustrated.
Ask me how I know.
So you put that someplace safeand then take a breather and
then you get to intentionallyand specifically choose when you
(12:53):
are going to consider whetheror not it is really a good idea,
whether it's a good idea now orsometime in the future.
You get to process thespecifics about it and what
you're going to do with it.
Not every idea we have, youknow, needs to become something,
but it's wonderful when we havethe space and the system that
allows us to to let it flow,because that idea may inspire or
(13:18):
inform something else evenbetter.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
Yeah, I love what you said about systems too, because
I get crazy about the one sizefits all in any aspect of
business or life really, becausethere's a lot of things that
work for a lot of people and wepay $10,000 to learn the
step-by-step framework that tookme from zero to 5 million in 90
(13:43):
seconds, and maybe it did takeher from zero to 5 million in 90
seconds.
I don't know that it did, butmaybe it did.
But that doesn't mean it'sgoing to take you from zero to 5
million in 90 seconds.
Right, and same thing withdecluttering or productivity or
any of these kinds of things.
It's like everybody you ask onsocial media what's the best
planner, right, like for thosewho use people right.
(14:06):
You're going to get 50 differentresponses because everybody's
found this one planner thatworks amazing for them.
And then us with ADHD are likeI have 94 to 2024 planners and
all of them have a week filledout.
So it's like everything elsethere's something that works for
you and there's something thatworks for somebody else.
And systems doesn't necessarilyhave to mean like I always
(14:29):
think system means liketechnology and automation and
things like that.
And sometimes, yeah, yoursystem is sticky notes,
sometimes your system is a to-dolist, right.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
Right and it's understanding, like how your
brain works best and what youfeel, a lot of times a bullet
journal, but not even, not evendone the traditional Bujo style
which has rules, cause I don'tlike rules.
I'm like like I'm a little, alittle rebel in me, you know,
but it's like no, but I likethat writing down.
Now I've personally gone to arocket book because I love
(15:04):
writing.
It works with my brain, but Ialso don't want to kill trees
constantly, so I write and thenI upload and erase and that
makes me happy.
But, yeah, it's talking tosomeone and saying, okay, what
do you like?
How does that work?
Oh wait, you can't possiblylisten to an audio book because,
like two seconds in you'regonna be like squirrel.
(15:25):
Okay, so how do you absorbinformation best?
How do you like to connect andcapture information?
Finding that, answering thosequestions to me is the way to
find the solutions.
It actually drives me crazy inthe productivity industry that
they have those magic bullets.
(15:45):
But the reason they have themagic bullet oh, this is going
to fix everything.
This is the system you want foryour business to scale.
The reason they're doing thatis to sell it, not because it
will work for you.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
Right, yeah, absolutely.
It reminds me.
In the Powerful Women Risingcommunity, the online community
that I run, I added a contentcreation co-working call.
That's four hours a month atthe beginning of the month,
because I had so many membersthat were like I need to be
posting on social media, I needto be, and it would just like
loom over their head all monthlong.
And then we get to the nextmonth and they'd be like I
(16:19):
didn't do anything on socialmedia.
I really wanted to.
So I'm like listen, four hoursbeginning of the month, we're
going to get it all done andthen you don't have to think
about it for the rest of themonth.
And I have members who who havelike, when I rolled it out,
we're like why would I do that?
Like why, why, why would I evercome to that?
(16:41):
Like they just could not evenwrap their brain around, like
why, that is a thing and they'venever come.
And so it just is interestinglike what works for some people
to get things done and whatworks for other people to get
things done.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
Exactly to get things done and what works for other
people to get things doneExactly.
So, personality and tendenciesand the way that we function and
process information all ofthese things feed in and that's
how I work with my clients.
It's so funny.
We don't talk about what's your, what planner do you have, or
do you use Trello or Asana we do, eventually but the first
things we talk about is what areyour core values?
What are you trying to achieve?
What's what matters to you?
Uh, we do um assessments likeyour, uh, your core values, the
(17:24):
four tendencies.
I absolutely love that.
If you have upholders who, whoare more toward like the type a,
the structured, the discipline,they're going to look at your
co-working session which I thinkis fabulous, by the way and
they're going to say at yourco-working session which I think
is fabulous, by the way andthey're going to say why would I
even need that?
But when you have obligers whoabsolutely need that external
accountability, they're going tobe like this is the best thing
(17:45):
ever, because if you don't havethis, I'm not showing up for
myself.
So, understanding those things,answering those questions,
that's how we create the rightframeworks and yeah, and so you
can see it, you can see it in adifferent way.
People work and especially I'venoticed, if you have ADHD, that
(18:06):
doing something called in theaccountability of coworking,
something called body doublingthat's what makes it so powerful
is that you it's like you'rematching energy and the energy
is to get work done.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
Yeah, I want to go back to what you said at the
beginning of that sentence abouthow the first thing that you do
is not ask people like, are youusing Trello, what planner do
you have?
Because that is totally what Iexpected to be where you started
.
And the first thing you said waswhat are your core values, and
I think this is really importantfor people to hear.
So I want to make sure we don'tskip over it, because I think I
(18:41):
have an idea why that might beone of the first questions that
you ask.
But why is that somethingthat's important for people to
know and think about when theyare trying to be more productive
?
Speaker 2 (18:52):
Yeah, thank you for asking that, because it is like
one of those key things thatthat we sometimes miss, and, you
know, if you don't have theright foundation to something,
then it's really hard to buildon it, and so I'll use an
example in the declutteringworld.
Maybe some of you mightremember Marie Kondo and how she
was a big hit with decluttering, and it was, you know, what
(19:13):
sparks joy.
What worked with that solutionwas the fact that she had a very
simple question, one question.
You could answer it, and forsome people they were like this
is the best thing since slicedbread.
This is awesome.
But I had so many people whocame to me and like, I tried it
and it just didn't work.
(19:33):
What's wrong with me?
I'm like absolutely nothing.
It's the system, because it'slimited.
She created a simple filter,which is what we need when
you're trying to sell to a massaudience.
Right, One simple thing thatyou can do, but it's not going
to work for everybody.
What I realized is you need tocreate what I call filters for
your choices what belongs inyour life, what doesn't, what
(19:56):
belongs on your to-do list, whatbelongs on your calendar, what
belongs in your closet, and then, conversely, what doesn't.
So now, when you are creatingthese filters, a big part of
that is what you value, and youand I actually talked about this
(20:16):
in terms of like when we wouldschedule, when we're going to
record and what kind ofconflicts we might have when you
value something.
I'll use an example.
As a mom, I have always valuedbeing there to pick up my kids
from school and valuing justaspects of connecting with my
kids and being there for them.
(20:36):
Every time I tried to book anappointment or maybe try to work
out in a group class at the gymyou name it stuff that I really
loved and wanted to do, I foundmyself canceling those.
Why?
Because, well, sometimes wecall this a cognitive dissonance
(20:57):
.
Right, where you haveconflicting values, one of
them's got to win.
We don't have ties in the worldof values.
There's always prioritizingbased on what matters to us and
there's something that's got towin.
So if we dig in deep to what youvalue and what you're like and
how you work and what matters toyou, you show me your it like
and how you work and whatmatters to you.
You show me your.
It used to be checkbook.
(21:19):
Okay, now you show me yourVenmo and your calendar, I'll
tell you.
I'll tell you what matters whenwe understand that.
That's going to tell us so muchabout not only what you need to
keep in your space whateverspace that is but also how you
are going to create the bestkind of habits.
(21:41):
Right, because the habits arethe drivers that are going to
make that work for you.
Example too so we talked aboutcore values there.
But if you are an extrovert oran introvert, if you value deep
connection with people, then andyou're an introvert if you
value deep connection withpeople, then and you're an
introvert which is often astrong correlation then trying
to go to these big in-personnetworking events is going to
(22:07):
sound equivalent to root canal.
It doesn't make sense.
So the more we identify those,those pieces of you, first and
foremost, then we can build theright foundation for being
productive and getting stuffdone.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
Yeah, and I think that goes back to a question I
was going to ask you aboutsomething you said in the very
beginning in terms of being ableto actually identify, like,
what are the priorities, what isactually important, especially,
I think, for entrepreneurs andbusiness owners, because I think
it feels like everything isimportant all the time, right
Like I've always got to like begetting in front of a new
(22:42):
audience, I've got to benurturing the audience that I
have, I've got to be convertingpeople to paying clients, I've
got to be delivering to mypaying clients, like everything
is important, and so I thinkthat values work and also the
other things you mentioned aboutjust like knowing yourself and
why you're doing what you'redoing, is a huge part in helping
you identify what is trulyimportant and what is a priority
(23:04):
when.
Yeah exactly.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
So prioritization, by the way, can be like more of a
challenge for those with ADHD.
I've definitely noticed this.
So I would say for my clientswho do have that, which are
actually the majority of myclients, the majority of the
work that we do is oftenprioritization, and sometimes it
takes like asking questions ofyou know, okay, what matters
(23:30):
more to you, and then, if itwell, it feels like they're the
same, then you have to dig down,you have to keep asking the
questions.
Well, it feels like they're thesame, then you have to dig down
, you have to keep asking thequestions.
So it really is kind of I'venever described it this way, but
again, I love that you askthese questions and then it has
me thinking too that we startwith that what matters to you as
a person and that what mattersto you.
And the same way that we talkabout core values personally, we
(23:52):
also look at core values forour business.
Right, we should have our ownpersonal mission and our
business mission, and a lot oftimes there's a very strong
correlation with the two.
And then, when you have thosedrivers, you understand those
things, you start answeringthese questions and then, um,
when we work together, we startwith that as the foundation.
And then, once you get clear onthose things and you're like,
(24:15):
okay, and now this is what I'mworking with and this is what I
want to accomplish, now we startgetting into what everybody
thinks of as productivity, like.
One of my favorite principles isthe Pareto principle, the 80 20
principle that you can get 80%of your output, 80% of the way
to your goal, with only 20% ofthe input.
(24:38):
Right, I love that.
That is leveraging that I amhere for and we have a joke in
my family.
My kids know this, I use itlike a verb let's 80-20 the
sucker.
Let's not try to do all thethings.
That's where the busy workcomes in.
Instead, let's back up and sayso when you're like saying the
social media right, that we'realways like I got to get to that
.
I got to get to that planning.
(24:59):
Well, what's 20% of that listthat you need to do?
That could be 20% in terms oflooking at platforms that you're
on.
For me, it's Instagram andLinkedIn.
Those are my places.
Or what's 20% of the contentyou're going to create?
That's going to get you 80%where the people are, where your
people are, what feelsauthentic to you, what matches
(25:20):
your energy, all of that.
Those are the ways that weslide from personally what
matters into how do we beproductive in the traditional
sense.
But even so, it's nottraditional anymore, because now
it's completely based on you.
It's a system that'spersonalized to you.
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
That's awesome.
So we can't talk aboutproductivity without talking
about to-do lists, so true.
So I want to know what youthink about to-do lists, pros
and cons.
Do we like them?
Do we not like them?
Do they help?
Where are we at with to-dolists?
So?
Speaker 2 (25:57):
funny there years ago oh my God, it's probably like a
decade now.
I think Richard Branson waslike I don't use to-do lists and
I'm like, well, good for you,and also you're Richard Branson,
but that's another story foranother day.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
I'm pretty sure his 80 assistants have to-do lists.
Speaker 2 (26:10):
Right, exactly, but it was the idea of, oh, I
schedule everything or whatever,and there's again a lot of
theories out there.
So, being discerning aboutwhat's coming into you, how you
quote, need to do it.
That it's really going to be upto you.
But here are my thoughts andnow that you know where I stand
with how we function and thequestions we need to ask
(26:32):
ourselves, I'm a fan of to-dolists because they help guide us
and they allow us to be presentin the doing, as opposed to the
remembering what to do.
That's important, but I do seea lot of confusion when it comes
to what constitutes a to-dolist.
So we talked about the mentaldecluttering part, the mind
(26:54):
sweep.
What has your attention when wedo that, or brain dump as some
people will call it?
Get all the stuff out of yourhead, write it down Great.
Here's the big mistake.
And if you take away nothingtoday other than you're amazing
and you can absolutely do thisand don't be scared of systems,
what I want you to take away isthe idea that when you put this,
(27:16):
all the stuff down from yourbrain, that is not your to-do
list, that is your to chooselist.
You're going to choose what todo with it.
It might be waiting, it mightbe throwing it in that parking
lot we talked about.
It might be like looking at itand being like what the heck did
(27:36):
I write that down for?
Why am I still dealing withthat?
Let's let it go.
It's a process place.
It's merely a capture.
That's a safe place to holdwhat's been distracting you so
that you can figure out what todo with it when you're ready.
The real to-do list is likethree to five things per day or
(27:58):
per session, work session orwhatever that you're identifying
.
Those are those priorities thatwe talked about, where then
you've processed it and you lookat all this stuff, or you look
at all the stuff you just wrotedown and we think about that
80-20.
Like, oh, there's only 20%.
I mean, I'm sorry I'm makingyou do math, but I promise it's
rather easy math, but okay, soit's like all right, fine, we
(28:20):
got 10 things.
Look for the two, yeah, thatare going to get you really far.
And as soon as you have yourmind thinking in that way,
you're already looking for themost productive things, the
things that are going to carryyou further, faster, and then
(28:40):
that does wonderful things right.
It like spins you into like,ooh, I'm encouraged and I'm
making progress, and look at me,go, I can actually do something
else.
But all that to say, we have tobe careful about what the to-do
list actually is.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
I love that the idea of a to-choose list and the idea
that not everything that youwrite down is your to-do list.
Yes, and especially not yourto-do list for the day.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
Especially, yes, but not even in general.
It's more of a pool ofinformation.
And what I recommend I do havea free, guided mind sweep right
that you can download that saysdo this right.
It takes like five minutes andkeep doing it and you could use
the same notebook or the samenotes on your phone.
(29:29):
You know wherever it makes youhappy to capture and keep adding
things, and then you just set atime.
It could be once a week.
It depends on how much you'redownloading, how busy you feel.
You know how overwhelmed youfeel, but you remove the stuff
from your brain, you take timeto process it and it stays there
.
And what's nice is you remindyour brain don't worry about
(29:50):
that birthday, you know.
Event idea that you had that'sgoing to be two months from now,
just yet idea that you hadthat's going to be two months
from now.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
Just yet it's not time for that yet, but don't
worry, it's safe there.
Right?
Yeah, I have a list that I keepnext to me at my computer.
This is one of my productivityhacks that I found, because I
will be doing something liketalking to you and in the middle
of our conversation I'll seeyou take a drink, and then I'll
be like, oh, I forgot to unloadthe dishwasher, or you know like
(30:23):
I'll see something happen andI'm like, oh, I need to order
groceries or whatever it is, andthen I'll start doing that
thing, and in the middle of thatthing I'll remember I need to
do another thing, and so thenI'll start doing that thing.
So every time I remembersomething I need to do, I just
write it down on the list andwhat I've also noticed is I have
a new list every week and Inoticed sometimes there are
things that move to the nextweek, that I've literally moved
(30:45):
to the next week probably 10times, and so there comes a
point where I'm like, why are westill moving this?
Like, is it something thatdoesn't actually need to be done
?
Is it something that reallydoes need to be done?
I just keep putting it off, andif so, why and how am I ever
(31:05):
going to get it off this to-dolist, or do I just need to take
it off?
Speaker 2 (31:09):
And you're identifying, basically, to-do
list clutter.
Right, that's a form of clutter, because it can, because and
this is an important thing Ifyou have a really long to-do
list, all your brain is evertelling you is look what you're
not getting done, look what, oh,you didn't get that done.
And especially if you put it onthe next list and the next and
(31:29):
the next, and suddenly you knowyou're like okay, great, so this
is just going to haunt meforever.
And now I feel like the world'smost horrible person.
It doesn't matter how much Ihave achieved or how much I've
done, because our brains love toclose the task loop.
Our brains are like what didyou accomplish last week?
(31:52):
We don't, I don't, literallydon't care anymore.
What haven't you gotten done?
That that's, that's all we'refocused on.
So you're identifying thingsthat we have to ask like why do
we keep dragging this along?
Why do I keep that crazy pairof shoes in the closet?
Do I really think like I'mwearing those?
Like not anymore?
Speaker 1 (32:13):
not with these ankles .
Speaker 2 (32:14):
I'm just telling yeah , exactly, you have to make, uh
tough choices and I I don't knowif we have the the time for it,
but, um, I can give you, um,four tips for for the to-do list
, especially as relates to whatyou're talking about.
Yeah, so you may have heardsystems out there that say like
3ds or 4ds and and people talkabout like doing and delegating
(32:37):
and stuff, and I have four Ds.
But the order is very importantand here's why, with deleting
or decluttering right, it's soimportant that you declutter
first, because you don't want toorganize what you don't intend
to keep.
True Makes sense.
Adding something to the to-dolist that you're not going to
(32:58):
keep, that you're not going todo that.
Why do you even have that?
Asking that question so smart?
Because at some point you haveto be like we're just going to
let this go.
We're letting it go, fly, befree.
I'm done with you, becauseotherwise it's lingering, it's
taking up space, it's taking upfocus, it's adding guilt where
it doesn't belong.
(33:18):
Let's just let that go.
So, yeah, don't list what youdon't intend to do on a to-do
list.
So if it doesn't belong anymore, let it go.
And if you're like I can'tquite.
There are three other D's we cantalk about.
The next is delegating.
Now, this is where you look atthe rest of it.
You're like I couldn't quitelet you go, but I'm only one
(33:39):
person, so I asked the questionhow can it get done?
And that's different from howcan I do this.
You're triggering your brain ina really good way to be like oh
, let's get creative anddelegating Now.
You talked about systems beforeand how you thought about tech.
That's actually where it can bea really good thing.
(33:59):
Automation is a form ofdelegation.
I follow up with my podcastguests and with different people
in a lot of ways that areautomated.
So it's you know, it's not justhow can you do it, but how can
it get done, and that's openingyour mind to a creative way to
still make things happen, butit's not always on you.
(34:23):
The third D is to delay it, andthat's a little bit like the
parking lot idea, where it's notnecessarily someday, but it's
also a not now.
We have to be very clear Maybein the next week or two, we're
just not dealing with this.
This is not happening.
We have other things we need tofocus on, but there's such a
(34:45):
difference psychologically, whenyou intentionally delay
something and say I'm looking atthis again in three months,
versus it lingering on yourto-do list over and, over and
over again, reminding you thatyou haven't dealt with it.
And sometimes that's not even amatter of not doing the thing,
but that you have decisions tomake about it, questions to ask,
research to do, and so it feelsreally unfair that it's
(35:05):
lingering there, like you know,just trying to get your
attention, being like, hey,focus on me and you're like not
right now.
So if you say nope, I'm goingto set a calendar event.
Or for me I use Todoist, soagain, again.
That's another automated waywhere I can say I'm going to
look at it weeks from now andthen I'll make a decision.
(35:26):
That's when I, that's when Ihave the time to do it and
that's what I'll do it.
Those three D's right theremake such a difference in
bringing you to a true to-dolist.
So the fourth D is actuallydoing Now you can take action,
now you prioritize.
It's just like organizinganything the fewer things you
have to organize, the easier.
Speaker 1 (35:47):
Absolutely so.
The first three are helping ushave less things to organize
Bingo.
When we do the fourth and doesthat sound good?
Yeah, I love that.
Do less Does that sound good?
Yeah, I love that.
Do less, live more, breatheeasier.
I was waiting for it.
I love that.
This is really, really goodstuff.
So, if people want to connectwith you, I know you have an
(36:08):
amazing podcast.
You've been doing it for a longtime, so good.
Lots of other awesome ways forthem to connect with you and get
to know you, learn more aboutwhat you do and how they can be
more productive.
What's the best way for them toget in touch with you and find
all that?
Speaker 2 (36:23):
thank you.
So you're listening to anamazing podcast right now so you
can hop over to positivelyliving.
I would be honored to have youthere, but really the hub where
you can find all the differentplaces to find me is
positivelyproductivecom.
From there you can shoot overto podcast episodes.
You can come find me and playwith me on Instagram.
I do a lot of ridiculous reels,all in honor of stress
(36:46):
management, because we have tolaugh and have fun and that's
positively underscore, lisa.
Speaker 1 (36:52):
Awesome.
I will put your link to thewebsite in the show notes, also
the link to the podcast, yourInstagram, but people can get
everything from the website.
Look how we streamline thingsto make people more productive.
I love that.
I love that for us.
Thank you so much for thisinterview.
It was awesome.
I really appreciate talking toyou.
Thank you, melissa, it's mypleasure.
Hello Lisa, Welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Thank you, Melissa.
It's my pleasure to be here.
I can't wait to dig in.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Good, I'm so excited to have you here talking about
productivity, no less.
But before we dig in, telleverybody a little bit about you
and about what you do.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Thank you for asking.
Hi, I'm Lisa Zerotny.
I'm a productivity coach, thefounder of Positively Productive
Systems and the host of thePositively Living podcast.
And I a productivity coach, thefounder of Positively
Productive Systems and the hostof the Positively Living podcast
, and I help my clients reducethe overwhelm, manage the stress
and find the sustainablesolutions, and we do this with
compassion and humor.
This is shame-free productivity.
(00:39):
It's time to make things easierand do things our way, and I
walk my own talk because I am amom and a wife and a business
owner and a caregiver.
And then one of my favoritethings to do to hide away from
the world would be hanging outin a cozy spot with a good book
(00:59):
and iced coffee and definitelytrapped under a cat.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
You had me at iced coffee and then you added cat
and I just instantly fell inlove with you there.
Me at iced coffee, and then youadded cat and I just instantly
fell in love with you there wereyeah, and if you like, tacos,
we are now besties and we'regood to go.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Okay, here we go.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
Okay, so let's dive into productivity.
I'm super excited for thisconversation because it's funny
we're talking now because I justgot off a call with an
executive function coach and wewere talking about ADHD and
neurodivergence and thechallenges that many people have
with being productive, orprocrastination or feeling like
you're lazy, but really it'sjust how your brain is wired and
(01:33):
all of the different things.
And I'm one of those peoplelike I'm listening to your
introduction and you saidsomething about systems and I
just like instantly startedgetting hives just because you
said systems.
So I'm very excited about thisinterview.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Good, and also what I said is shame free productivity
.
So I love that you brought upneurodiversity, because those
really are my people.
I live in a sea of ADHD and Ithink one of the reasons that I
started to attract ADHD peopleis that I understand it, I get
(02:08):
it and I know that there's abetter way.
You have superpowers, so let'sstop pretending like that's a
problem.
The problem are theproductivity solutions that are
out there.
These are my thoughts.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
I love it.
So when we're talking aboutproductivity, tell us your
definition of that word, sowe're at least all on the same
page.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
Yeah, absolutely so.
The idea of productivityoriginally came from the
industrial revolution and it'ssort of that do more, right, we
have this amount of time.
How do we get more things done,get more things created in this
amount of time?
And now what I want you to dois think about this information
age and how.
We're about quality notquantity.
(02:50):
So now being productive meansbeing able to get the stuff you
need to get done so that you canmake the space for the things
that you want to do and that youneed to do for your, your soul
and your spirit and your energythat you need to do for your
soul and your spirit and yourenergy.
It's about living your bestlife, and that sounds cliche,
(03:11):
but really it's about living ina way that makes you feel like
you and that you feel good andproud and accomplished.
You're achieving the goals thatyou want, but you're not doing
it in such a difficult way.
So that's my take onproductivity doing the right
things at the right time, theright way for you.
I love that.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
That's a great definition, cause I think a lot
of times when we think ofproductivity, we think about
like how do I do more so I cando more?
Yeah, right, and we are sayinghow do I do more so I can do
more, but do more of the thingsthat I love, do more of the
things that bring me joy, domore of the things that are
really what I'm here to do, asopposed to like how do I get
(03:53):
more done so I can go marketsome more or post more on social
media, or like do more work?
Speaker 2 (04:01):
Yeah, not do more so that you could do more work, but
do more so that you can livemore.
The mantra of PositivelyProductive is to do less, live
more and breathe easier.
So, yeah, you're absolutelyright.
We're not trying to do more, inthat, it's get more done.
And part of that, or at leastpart of my coaching, is also
(04:22):
being discerning about whatreally needs to be done, because
we get in a busy trap.
Yeah, we can feel like we'redoing a lot, but are we really
productive?
Speaker 1 (04:31):
Yes, amen to that, says everyone.
Who's ever had one of thosedays where I'm like man, I was
so busy all day today, and thenmy husband's like what'd you do?
And I'm like not really sure,but I was really busy, I did a
lot, I did a lot of things.
So one of the things that youtalk about a lot is the idea of
(04:52):
whole life decluttering.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
Tell us, what that is and how that relates to
productivity Great.
So, just like you asked aboutproductivity and let's be on the
same page with defining itlet's define clutter and I love
to use Peter Walsh's quote whichis clutter is not just the
stuff on the floor, it'sanything that stands between you
and the life you want to beliving.
So, again, anything that standsbetween you and the life you
(05:20):
want to be living so that meansclutter in this context is a
block of some kind.
So that also means that noteverything that everybody else
may think is clutter let's usethe air quotes now is
necessarily clutter.
For you, it is, once again,self-defined and that's really
important.
(05:41):
But when you do find the thingsthat are blocking you, that kind
of clutter and that could bephysical stuff strewn about your
space, it could be all thestuff you are carrying in your
brain Hello, hashtag mental load, especially for caregivers.
It could be, yeah, physicalmental space, anything like that
.
That's the stuff that's goingto trigger guilt, it's going to
(06:02):
be constantly distracting youfrom being present.
It's going to make you feeloverwhelmed all the time.
It's going to therefore takeyour focus away and not allow
you to actually be productivewith the time that you have, and
it is the thing that makes youend up being very busy and
spinning your wheels and thenbeing like what did I actually
(06:24):
accomplish?
Speaker 1 (06:25):
So if somebody is listening to this and they're
like, yes, I relate to thatdefinition.
Whatever their definition ofclutter is right, but they're
like listening to you talk andthey're like, yes, I've got that
in my brain or in my office orin my life, what are some things
that people can start doingright now, like simple steps
people can start taking now thatcan help them get rid of some
(06:47):
of that clutter and be lessoverwhelmed?
Speaker 2 (06:50):
So the first thing is , of course, acknowledging that
it is, in fact, clutter, andunderstanding okay, this is
getting in my way.
And also, maybe, acknowledgingthe things that aren't.
Hello, my book lovers, right,maybe you know if that makes you
happy, if it's what you want inyour space and surrounding you.
Now we're talking physicalenvironment, because that's an
(07:11):
easy place to start.
You want to make sure you'resurrounded by the things that
make you happy, that inspire you, that energize you, because
that will make you productive.
So go ahead and tell the peoplewho are like you have too many
books to kick rocks.
Okay, that's not a thing.
But do identify the placeswhere you're like wow, that's
just, it's like we just said inthe green room, it's just like a
(07:34):
lot.
When that feels like whatyou're feeling, it's a matter of
saying okay then, what do Iwant this space for?
And I think that's a greatfirst question, even if it's
mental clutter as well Like whatdo I need to be focusing on
right now?
Okay, then I need to pull outthe things that are getting in
(07:54):
my way.
So in the physical space,there's a lot of different ways
that you can do that, butidentifying what you want to use
the space for is your firststep, and I do have a lot of
resources, a framework fordecluttering.
That's all free on my podcast,so that's stuff that you can
absolutely look up and see.
But saying, okay, what do Iwant the space for?
(08:15):
Great.
And then, on the mental side,what do I want the space for?
Well, I want it to be fullypresent, I want my mind to be
present, I want the brain fog togo away, I want the
distractions to go away so I canfocus, and on that side, the
decluttering would be somethingyou would call a mind sweep.
Now that's David Allen's phrasefrom the framework Getting
(08:38):
Things Done, and I do followthat somewhat.
I've kind of made it my own, asI recommend everybody does.
Sometimes people would callthat a brain dump.
So that's another way if it'son the mental side, and that is
as simple as taking a notebookand taking everything that has
your attention and putting itdown there.
That is step one, but there'ssome important steps after that
(09:02):
if we're talking on the mentalside, and I'm sure we'll get
into it.
But yeah, first steps would bewhat do I want this space for?
And let me remove the itemsthat immediately don't belong.
Okay.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
I love that Does that make sense.
It does, and we're kind oftalking about two different
things at the same time, right,like the physical, actual
cluttered space, and then alsothe clutter in our brain.
And I love that, because Ithink people don't usually think
of clutter in terms of what'shappening in their brain.
But I will tell you, there's alot more clutter in my brain
than there is in my office.
(09:35):
But I also think that's one ofthe reasons I'm so obsessed with
not having clutter.
Like my poor husband, he'lllike set a glass down on the
kitchen counter halfway throughhis drink and then he comes back
for it and it's gone.
And I'm like he's like where'smy drink?
I'm like it was on the counter.
He's like that's where it goes.
I'm like, no, nothing goes onthe counter.
And it's probably becausethere's so much in my brain that
(09:55):
having clutter in the physicalspace is like too much.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
Yes, you have hit a very important point and a
correlation here, and the waythat I phrase it is that the red
carpet and couldn't figure outwhat to wear.
It's like a daily thing now,but it's not normally like that.
It can hint to you that yourschedule is over full and
sometimes you just know, oh,we're in a busy season.
It's a little crazy pants rightnow and this weekend I'll take
a little extra time and reset it, bring it back to neutral.
(10:41):
And other times it can be likelike this is getting worse and
worse.
I'm trending in the wrongdirection.
Let me catch that.
So sometimes it can be a clue,sometimes it can be a
manifestation, especiallyphysically.
But to your point, yeah, youare looking to make sure that
your environment is as conduciveas possible, because it sounds
like the you know, internalworkings is where you have so
(11:06):
much clutter.
And for those of us who love tohave ideas, like I, I'm multi
passionate and I all the ideasand, again, anyone who's
neurodiverse probably does thatbecause you're making
connections and creating all thetime and you can't help it.
So you want to make sure youhave enough space to do that.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
Yeah, absolutely.
I've talked about this beforeon the podcast.
I did an episode several monthsago about shiny object syndrome
and one of the things I said onthere was my VA finally created
a Slack channel for us that'sjust called Brain Dump, and
she's like every time you have agreat idea, I want you to just
put it in here, just put it inthe folder, and I put them in
(11:51):
there and sometimes I come backto them and I'm like, yeah, that
actually wasn't that great ofan idea.
Sometimes I come back to themand I'm like this is a great
idea, let's make it happen.
But at least to have somewhereto just like get it out of my
brain is super helpful.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
I love that.
Snaps to your VA for suggestingthat system.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
See, that's a system.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
We need to not be afraid of the word system.
A system can be.
I'm writing things down in anotebook so I don't feel like
I'm constantly having toremember, because that never
works.
So that's great and that's likethe.
Sometimes people will call thata parking lot, where you're
just like setting it somewhere.
You know long-term parkingright and then you come back to
it.
And what I love about that isit's not distracting you,
(12:31):
pulling you away from what youcurrently need to be focusing on
, but you and also and the otheraspect of this is you could be
like oh, I had that great idea,what was it?
Now you're like so frustrated.
Ask me how I know.
So you put that someplace safeand then take a breather and
then you get to intentionallyand specifically choose when you
(12:53):
are going to consider whetheror not it is really a good idea,
whether it's a good idea now orsometime in the future.
You get to process thespecifics about it and what
you're going to do with it.
Not every idea we have, youknow, needs to become something,
but it's wonderful when we havethe space and the system that
allows us to to let it flow,because that idea may inspire or
(13:18):
inform something else evenbetter.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
Yeah, I love what you said about systems too, because
I get crazy about the one sizefits all in any aspect of
business or life really, becausethere's a lot of things that
work for a lot of people and wepay $10,000 to learn the
step-by-step framework that tookme from zero to 5 million in 90
(13:43):
seconds, and maybe it did takeher from zero to 5 million in 90
seconds.
I don't know that it did, butmaybe it did.
But that doesn't mean it'sgoing to take you from zero to 5
million in 90 seconds.
Right, and same thing withdecluttering or productivity or
any of these kinds of things.
It's like everybody you ask onsocial media what's the best
planner, right, like for thosewho use people right.
(14:06):
You're going to get 50 differentresponses because everybody's
found this one planner thatworks amazing for them.
And then us with ADHD are likeI have 94 to 2024 planners and
all of them have a week filledout.
So it's like everything elsethere's something that works for
you and there's something thatworks for somebody else.
And systems doesn't necessarilyhave to mean like I always
(14:29):
think system means liketechnology and automation and
things like that.
And sometimes, yeah, yoursystem is sticky notes,
sometimes your system is a to-dolist, right.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
Right and it's understanding, like how your
brain works best and what youfeel, a lot of times a bullet
journal, but not even, not evendone the traditional Bujo style
which has rules, cause I don'tlike rules.
I'm like like I'm a little, alittle rebel in me, you know,
but it's like no, but I likethat writing down.
Now I've personally gone to arocket book because I love
(15:04):
writing.
It works with my brain, but Ialso don't want to kill trees
constantly, so I write and thenI upload and erase and that
makes me happy.
But, yeah, it's talking tosomeone and saying, okay, what
do you like?
How does that work?
Oh wait, you can't possiblylisten to an audio book because,
like two seconds in you'regonna be like squirrel.
(15:25):
Okay, so how do you absorbinformation best?
How do you like to connect andcapture information?
Finding that, answering thosequestions to me is the way to
find the solutions.
It actually drives me crazy inthe productivity industry that
they have those magic bullets.
(15:45):
But the reason they have themagic bullet oh, this is going
to fix everything.
This is the system you want foryour business to scale.
The reason they're doing thatis to sell it, not because it
will work for you.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
Right, yeah, absolutely.
It reminds me.
In the Powerful Women Risingcommunity, the online community
that I run, I added a contentcreation co-working call.
That's four hours a month atthe beginning of the month,
because I had so many membersthat were like I need to be
posting on social media, I needto be, and it would just like
loom over their head all monthlong.
And then we get to the nextmonth and they'd be like I
(16:19):
didn't do anything on socialmedia.
I really wanted to.
So I'm like listen, four hoursbeginning of the month, we're
going to get it all done andthen you don't have to think
about it for the rest of themonth.
And I have members who who havelike, when I rolled it out,
we're like why would I do that?
Like why, why, why would I evercome to that?
(16:41):
Like they just could not evenwrap their brain around, like
why, that is a thing and they'venever come.
And so it just is interestinglike what works for some people
to get things done and whatworks for other people to get
things done.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
Exactly to get things done and what works for other
people to get things doneExactly.
So, personality and tendenciesand the way that we function and
process information all ofthese things feed in and that's
how I work with my clients.
It's so funny.
We don't talk about what's your, what planner do you have, or
do you use Trello or Asana we do, eventually but the first
things we talk about is what areyour core values?
What are you trying to achieve?
What's what matters to you?
Uh, we do um assessments likeyour, uh, your core values, the
(17:24):
four tendencies.
I absolutely love that.
If you have upholders who, whoare more toward like the type a,
the structured, the discipline,they're going to look at your
co-working session which I thinkis fabulous, by the way and
they're going to say at yourco-working session which I think
is fabulous, by the way andthey're going to say why would I
even need that?
But when you have obligers whoabsolutely need that external
accountability, they're going tobe like this is the best thing
(17:45):
ever, because if you don't havethis, I'm not showing up for
myself.
So, understanding those things,answering those questions,
that's how we create the rightframeworks and yeah, and so you
can see it, you can see it in adifferent way.
People work and especially I'venoticed, if you have ADHD, that
(18:06):
doing something called in theaccountability of coworking,
something called body doublingthat's what makes it so powerful
is that you it's like you'rematching energy and the energy
is to get work done.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
Yeah, I want to go back to what you said at the
beginning of that sentence abouthow the first thing that you do
is not ask people like, are youusing Trello, what planner do
you have?
Because that is totally what Iexpected to be where you started
.
And the first thing you said waswhat are your core values, and
I think this is really importantfor people to hear.
So I want to make sure we don'tskip over it, because I think I
(18:41):
have an idea why that might beone of the first questions that
you ask.
But why is that somethingthat's important for people to
know and think about when theyare trying to be more productive
?
Speaker 2 (18:52):
Yeah, thank you for asking that, because it is like
one of those key things thatthat we sometimes miss, and, you
know, if you don't have theright foundation to something,
then it's really hard to buildon it, and so I'll use an
example in the declutteringworld.
Maybe some of you mightremember Marie Kondo and how she
was a big hit with decluttering, and it was, you know, what
(19:13):
sparks joy.
What worked with that solutionwas the fact that she had a very
simple question, one question.
You could answer it, and forsome people they were like this
is the best thing since slicedbread.
This is awesome.
But I had so many people whocame to me and like, I tried it
and it just didn't work.
(19:33):
What's wrong with me?
I'm like absolutely nothing.
It's the system, because it'slimited.
She created a simple filter,which is what we need when
you're trying to sell to a massaudience.
Right, One simple thing thatyou can do, but it's not going
to work for everybody.
What I realized is you need tocreate what I call filters for
your choices what belongs inyour life, what doesn't, what
(19:56):
belongs on your to-do list, whatbelongs on your calendar, what
belongs in your closet, and then, conversely, what doesn't.
So now, when you are creatingthese filters, a big part of
that is what you value, and youand I actually talked about this
(20:16):
in terms of like when we wouldschedule, when we're going to
record and what kind ofconflicts we might have when you
value something.
I'll use an example.
As a mom, I have always valuedbeing there to pick up my kids
from school and valuing justaspects of connecting with my
kids and being there for them.
(20:36):
Every time I tried to book anappointment or maybe try to work
out in a group class at the gymyou name it stuff that I really
loved and wanted to do, I foundmyself canceling those.
Why?
Because, well, sometimes wecall this a cognitive dissonance
(20:57):
.
Right, where you haveconflicting values, one of
them's got to win.
We don't have ties in the worldof values.
There's always prioritizingbased on what matters to us and
there's something that's got towin.
So if we dig in deep to what youvalue and what you're like and
how you work and what matters toyou, you show me your it like
and how you work and whatmatters to you.
You show me your.
It used to be checkbook.
(21:19):
Okay, now you show me yourVenmo and your calendar, I'll
tell you.
I'll tell you what matters whenwe understand that.
That's going to tell us so muchabout not only what you need to
keep in your space whateverspace that is but also how you
are going to create the bestkind of habits.
(21:41):
Right, because the habits arethe drivers that are going to
make that work for you.
Example too so we talked aboutcore values there.
But if you are an extrovert oran introvert, if you value deep
connection with people, then andyou're an introvert if you
value deep connection withpeople, then and you're an
introvert which is often astrong correlation then trying
to go to these big in-personnetworking events is going to
(22:07):
sound equivalent to root canal.
It doesn't make sense.
So the more we identify those,those pieces of you, first and
foremost, then we can build theright foundation for being
productive and getting stuffdone.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
Yeah, and I think that goes back to a question I
was going to ask you aboutsomething you said in the very
beginning in terms of being ableto actually identify, like,
what are the priorities, what isactually important, especially,
I think, for entrepreneurs andbusiness owners, because I think
it feels like everything isimportant all the time, right
Like I've always got to like begetting in front of a new
(22:42):
audience, I've got to benurturing the audience that I
have, I've got to be convertingpeople to paying clients, I've
got to be delivering to mypaying clients, like everything
is important, and so I thinkthat values work and also the
other things you mentioned aboutjust like knowing yourself and
why you're doing what you'redoing, is a huge part in helping
you identify what is trulyimportant and what is a priority
(23:04):
when.
Yeah exactly.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
So prioritization, by the way, can be like more of a
challenge for those with ADHD.
I've definitely noticed this.
So I would say for my clientswho do have that, which are
actually the majority of myclients, the majority of the
work that we do is oftenprioritization, and sometimes it
takes like asking questions ofyou know, okay, what matters
(23:30):
more to you, and then, if itwell, it feels like they're the
same, then you have to dig down,you have to keep asking the
questions.
Well, it feels like they're thesame, then you have to dig down
, you have to keep asking thequestions.
So it really is kind of I'venever described it this way, but
again, I love that you askthese questions and then it has
me thinking too that we startwith that what matters to you as
a person and that what mattersto you.
And the same way that we talkabout core values personally, we
(23:52):
also look at core values forour business.
Right, we should have our ownpersonal mission and our
business mission, and a lot oftimes there's a very strong
correlation with the two.
And then, when you have thosedrivers, you understand those
things, you start answeringthese questions and then, um,
when we work together, we startwith that as the foundation.
And then, once you get clear onthose things and you're like,
(24:15):
okay, and now this is what I'mworking with and this is what I
want to accomplish, now we startgetting into what everybody
thinks of as productivity, like.
One of my favorite principles isthe Pareto principle, the 80 20
principle that you can get 80%of your output, 80% of the way
to your goal, with only 20% ofthe input.
(24:38):
Right, I love that.
That is leveraging that I amhere for and we have a joke in
my family.
My kids know this, I use itlike a verb let's 80-20 the
sucker.
Let's not try to do all thethings.
That's where the busy workcomes in.
Instead, let's back up and sayso when you're like saying the
social media right, that we'realways like I got to get to that
.
I got to get to that planning.
(24:59):
Well, what's 20% of that listthat you need to do?
That could be 20% in terms oflooking at platforms that you're
on.
For me, it's Instagram andLinkedIn.
Those are my places.
Or what's 20% of the contentyou're going to create?
That's going to get you 80%where the people are, where your
people are, what feelsauthentic to you, what matches
(25:20):
your energy, all of that.
Those are the ways that weslide from personally what
matters into how do we beproductive in the traditional
sense.
But even so, it's nottraditional anymore, because now
it's completely based on you.
It's a system that'spersonalized to you.
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
That's awesome.
So we can't talk aboutproductivity without talking
about to-do lists, so true.
So I want to know what youthink about to-do lists, pros
and cons.
Do we like them?
Do we not like them?
Do they help?
Where are we at with to-dolists?
So?
Speaker 2 (25:57):
funny there years ago oh my God, it's probably like a
decade now.
I think Richard Branson waslike I don't use to-do lists and
I'm like, well, good for you,and also you're Richard Branson,
but that's another story foranother day.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
I'm pretty sure his 80 assistants have to-do lists.
Speaker 2 (26:10):
Right, exactly, but it was the idea of, oh, I
schedule everything or whatever,and there's again a lot of
theories out there.
So, being discerning aboutwhat's coming into you, how you
quote, need to do it.
That it's really going to be upto you.
But here are my thoughts andnow that you know where I stand
with how we function and thequestions we need to ask
(26:32):
ourselves, I'm a fan of to-dolists because they help guide us
and they allow us to be presentin the doing, as opposed to the
remembering what to do.
That's important, but I do seea lot of confusion when it comes
to what constitutes a to-dolist.
So we talked about the mentaldecluttering part, the mind
(26:54):
sweep.
What has your attention when wedo that, or brain dump as some
people will call it?
Get all the stuff out of yourhead, write it down Great.
Here's the big mistake.
And if you take away nothingtoday other than you're amazing
and you can absolutely do thisand don't be scared of systems,
what I want you to take away isthe idea that when you put this,
(27:16):
all the stuff down from yourbrain, that is not your to-do
list, that is your to chooselist.
You're going to choose what todo with it.
It might be waiting, it mightbe throwing it in that parking
lot we talked about.
It might be like looking at itand being like what the heck did
(27:36):
I write that down for?
Why am I still dealing withthat?
Let's let it go.
It's a process place.
It's merely a capture.
That's a safe place to holdwhat's been distracting you so
that you can figure out what todo with it when you're ready.
The real to-do list is likethree to five things per day or
(27:58):
per session, work session orwhatever that you're identifying
.
Those are those priorities thatwe talked about, where then
you've processed it and you lookat all this stuff, or you look
at all the stuff you just wrotedown and we think about that
80-20.
Like, oh, there's only 20%.
I mean, I'm sorry I'm makingyou do math, but I promise it's
rather easy math, but okay, soit's like all right, fine, we
(28:20):
got 10 things.
Look for the two, yeah, thatare going to get you really far.
And as soon as you have yourmind thinking in that way,
you're already looking for themost productive things, the
things that are going to carryyou further, faster, and then
(28:40):
that does wonderful things right.
It like spins you into like,ooh, I'm encouraged and I'm
making progress, and look at me,go, I can actually do something
else.
But all that to say, we have tobe careful about what the to-do
list actually is.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
I love that the idea of a to-choose list and the idea
that not everything that youwrite down is your to-do list.
Yes, and especially not yourto-do list for the day.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
Especially, yes, but not even in general.
It's more of a pool ofinformation.
And what I recommend I do havea free, guided mind sweep right
that you can download that saysdo this right.
It takes like five minutes andkeep doing it and you could use
the same notebook or the samenotes on your phone.
(29:29):
You know wherever it makes youhappy to capture and keep adding
things, and then you just set atime.
It could be once a week.
It depends on how much you'redownloading, how busy you feel.
You know how overwhelmed youfeel, but you remove the stuff
from your brain, you take timeto process it and it stays there
.
And what's nice is you remindyour brain don't worry about
(29:50):
that birthday, you know.
Event idea that you had that'sgoing to be two months from now,
just yet idea that you hadthat's going to be two months
from now.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
Just yet it's not time for that yet, but don't
worry, it's safe there.
Right?
Yeah, I have a list that I keepnext to me at my computer.
This is one of my productivityhacks that I found, because I
will be doing something liketalking to you and in the middle
of our conversation I'll seeyou take a drink, and then I'll
be like, oh, I forgot to unloadthe dishwasher, or you know like
(30:23):
I'll see something happen andI'm like, oh, I need to order
groceries or whatever it is, andthen I'll start doing that
thing, and in the middle of thatthing I'll remember I need to
do another thing, and so thenI'll start doing that thing.
So every time I remembersomething I need to do, I just
write it down on the list andwhat I've also noticed is I have
a new list every week and Inoticed sometimes there are
things that move to the nextweek, that I've literally moved
(30:45):
to the next week probably 10times, and so there comes a
point where I'm like, why are westill moving this?
Like, is it something thatdoesn't actually need to be done
?
Is it something that reallydoes need to be done?
I just keep putting it off, andif so, why and how am I ever
(31:05):
going to get it off this to-dolist, or do I just need to take
it off?
Speaker 2 (31:09):
And you're identifying, basically, to-do
list clutter.
Right, that's a form of clutter, because it can, because and
this is an important thing Ifyou have a really long to-do
list, all your brain is evertelling you is look what you're
not getting done, look what, oh,you didn't get that done.
And especially if you put it onthe next list and the next and
(31:29):
the next, and suddenly you knowyou're like okay, great, so this
is just going to haunt meforever.
And now I feel like the world'smost horrible person.
It doesn't matter how much Ihave achieved or how much I've
done, because our brains love toclose the task loop.
Our brains are like what didyou accomplish last week?
(31:52):
We don't, I don't, literallydon't care anymore.
What haven't you gotten done?
That that's, that's all we'refocused on.
So you're identifying thingsthat we have to ask like why do
we keep dragging this along?
Why do I keep that crazy pairof shoes in the closet?
Do I really think like I'mwearing those?
Like not anymore?
Speaker 1 (32:13):
not with these ankles .
Speaker 2 (32:14):
I'm just telling yeah , exactly, you have to make, uh
tough choices and I I don't knowif we have the the time for it,
but, um, I can give you, um,four tips for for the to-do list
, especially as relates to whatyou're talking about.
Yeah, so you may have heardsystems out there that say like
3ds or 4ds and and people talkabout like doing and delegating
(32:37):
and stuff, and I have four Ds.
But the order is very importantand here's why, with deleting
or decluttering right, it's soimportant that you declutter
first, because you don't want toorganize what you don't intend
to keep.
True Makes sense.
Adding something to the to-dolist that you're not going to
(32:58):
keep, that you're not going todo that.
Why do you even have that?
Asking that question so smart?
Because at some point you haveto be like we're just going to
let this go.
We're letting it go, fly, befree.
I'm done with you, becauseotherwise it's lingering, it's
taking up space, it's taking upfocus, it's adding guilt where
it doesn't belong.
(33:18):
Let's just let that go.
So, yeah, don't list what youdon't intend to do on a to-do
list.
So if it doesn't belong anymore, let it go.
And if you're like I can'tquite.
There are three other D's we cantalk about.
The next is delegating.
Now, this is where you look atthe rest of it.
You're like I couldn't quitelet you go, but I'm only one
(33:39):
person, so I asked the questionhow can it get done?
And that's different from howcan I do this.
You're triggering your brain ina really good way to be like oh
, let's get creative anddelegating Now.
You talked about systems beforeand how you thought about tech.
That's actually where it can bea really good thing.
(33:59):
Automation is a form ofdelegation.
I follow up with my podcastguests and with different people
in a lot of ways that areautomated.
So it's you know, it's not justhow can you do it, but how can
it get done, and that's openingyour mind to a creative way to
still make things happen, butit's not always on you.
(34:23):
The third D is to delay it, andthat's a little bit like the
parking lot idea, where it's notnecessarily someday, but it's
also a not now.
We have to be very clear Maybein the next week or two, we're
just not dealing with this.
This is not happening.
We have other things we need tofocus on, but there's such a
(34:45):
difference psychologically, whenyou intentionally delay
something and say I'm looking atthis again in three months,
versus it lingering on yourto-do list over and, over and
over again, reminding you thatyou haven't dealt with it.
And sometimes that's not even amatter of not doing the thing,
but that you have decisions tomake about it, questions to ask,
research to do, and so it feelsreally unfair that it's
(35:05):
lingering there, like you know,just trying to get your
attention, being like, hey,focus on me and you're like not
right now.
So if you say nope, I'm goingto set a calendar event.
Or for me I use Todoist, soagain, again.
That's another automated waywhere I can say I'm going to
look at it weeks from now andthen I'll make a decision.
(35:26):
That's when I, that's when Ihave the time to do it and
that's what I'll do it.
Those three D's right theremake such a difference in
bringing you to a true to-dolist.
So the fourth D is actuallydoing Now you can take action,
now you prioritize.
It's just like organizinganything the fewer things you
have to organize, the easier.
Speaker 1 (35:47):
Absolutely so.
The first three are helping ushave less things to organize
Bingo.
When we do the fourth and doesthat sound good?
Yeah, I love that.
Do less Does that sound good?
Yeah, I love that.
Do less, live more, breatheeasier.
I was waiting for it.
I love that.
This is really, really goodstuff.
So, if people want to connectwith you, I know you have an
(36:08):
amazing podcast.
You've been doing it for a longtime, so good.
Lots of other awesome ways forthem to connect with you and get
to know you, learn more aboutwhat you do and how they can be
more productive.
What's the best way for them toget in touch with you and find
all that?
Speaker 2 (36:23):
thank you.
So you're listening to anamazing podcast right now so you
can hop over to positivelyliving.
I would be honored to have youthere, but really the hub where
you can find all the differentplaces to find me is
positivelyproductivecom.
From there you can shoot overto podcast episodes.
You can come find me and playwith me on Instagram.
I do a lot of ridiculous reels,all in honor of stress
(36:46):
management, because we have tolaugh and have fun and that's
positively underscore, lisa.
Speaker 1 (36:52):
Awesome.
I will put your link to thewebsite in the show notes, also
the link to the podcast, yourInstagram, but people can get
everything from the website.
Look how we streamline thingsto make people more productive.
I love that.
I love that for us.
Thank you so much for thisinterview.
It was awesome.
I really appreciate talking toyou.
Thank you, melissa, it's mypleasure.
Popular Podcasts
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy And Charlamagne Tha God!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Decisions, Decisions
Welcome to "Decisions, Decisions," the podcast where boundaries are pushed, and conversations get candid! Join your favorite hosts, Mandii B and WeezyWTF, as they dive deep into the world of non-traditional relationships and explore the often-taboo topics surrounding dating, sex, and love. Every Monday, Mandii and Weezy invite you to unlearn the outdated narratives dictated by traditional patriarchal norms. With a blend of humor, vulnerability, and authenticity, they share their personal journeys navigating their 30s, tackling the complexities of modern relationships, and engaging in thought-provoking discussions that challenge societal expectations. From groundbreaking interviews with diverse guests to relatable stories that resonate with your experiences, "Decisions, Decisions" is your go-to source for open dialogue about what it truly means to love and connect in today's world. Get ready to reshape your understanding of relationships and embrace the freedom of authentic connections—tune in and join the conversation!