April 7, 2025 • 24 mins
If you want to stand out in a crowded market, have clients rave about your work and make more money with less effort - you need a signature framework!
You can have the best intentions, the fanciest website, and all the certifications in the world but if you’re still "winging it" most of the time, you're leaving money and momentum on the table.
In this episode, I’m joined by Amanda Walker, former teacher turned “Framework Building Ninja” on a mission to help business owners stop improvising and start delivering consistent, scalable results.
In this episode, we cover:
• What a signature framework actually is—and what it’s not
• The difference between micro frameworks and big-picture methodologies
• The power of specificity: how to sell the problem you solve, not your title
• The "Reverse Design Method" that makes success inevitable for your clients
Whether you're a coach, consultant, strategist, or creative, this episode will change how you think about the way you serve your clients and how you grow your business from here.
Links & References:
- Join us at our next PWR Virtual Speed Networking Event!
- For even deeper connections, check out the Powerful Women Rising Community!
- Check out Amanda's Framework Builder Lab
- Listen to Amanda's Best Damn Coach podcast!
Loved the episode? Here are four ways you can show your support:
1. Buy me a coffee to show your appreciation!
2. Leave a five-star review
3. DM me on Instagram and let me know
4. Share it with a friend!
Connect with Your Host!
Melissa Snow is a Business Relationship Strategist dedicated to empowering women in entrepreneurship. She founded the Powerful Women Rising Community, which provides female business owners with essential support and resources for business growth.
Melissa's other mission is to revolutionize networking, promoting authenticity and genuine connections over sleazy sales tactics. She runs an incredible monthly Virtual Speed Networking Event which you can attend once at no cost using the code FIRSTTIME
She lives in Colorado Springs with two girl dogs, two boy cats and any number of foster kittens. She loves iced coffee, Taylor Swift, and Threads.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hello Amanda, Welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Thanks for having me so pumped to be with you.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Yes, I'm excited to talk to you.
You have such an officialmicrophone too for those who are
watching on YouTube.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Yes, it's very official Full disclosure.
It's a $20 wrap from Amazon, soyou know, just add a little
branded imaging.
But I do kind of love it.
It makes me feel official.
Yeah, it makes you look verycool.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Thank you.
A little branded imaging, but Ido kind of love it.
It makes me feel official.
Yeah, it makes you look verycool.
So I've got that going for you.
Before we dive into today, telleverybody a little bit about
you and about what you do.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Yeah, I am a former high school teacher.
I actually want to reverse.
I started my first.
My first job ever was as acoach.
I was 15.
I was working for the local Ycoaching boys basketball for
five and six-year-olds which,funny enough, was more like
herding cats and less likecoaching.
But it was really like thedomino that set cadence to my
(00:54):
life because I realized, man, Ilove freaking, helping people
and watching this transformationtake place, and so I thought I
was going to do that first inmedicine, went to school to be a
physician, decided thatlifestyle is not for me, and so
I ended up getting a graduatedegree in teaching and coaching
and taught high school until Ihad kids, and that was really a
major life transition for mebecause I was like I love
(01:16):
teaching but I love my kids more, and kind of took a year's
leave and stumbled intoentrepreneurship and kind of
transitioned those skills intowhat I do now.
So now I'm known as theframework building ninja.
I'm the coach's coach, as somewill call me as well.
So I teach coaches how to puttogether like their lived
(01:36):
experience and their formalexperience and create their own
signature methodology so theycan build authority and then to
really help them take that andbuild a coaching business that
actually makes money in theindustry that exists right now.
So I'm super excited to share,you know, whatever zone of
genius I can with people to helpguide them to results.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
That's awesome.
I feel like there's a lot offormer teachers turned coaches.
I was a teacher also.
I didn't do it quite as long asyou, I only did it for four
years.
But it's interesting becausesometimes I think initially I
thought wow, I went through allof that time and money to get a
degree that I'm not even using,but I actually use it all the
time as a coach.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
I agree with you.
I used to say that I used tohave this shame.
At first I was like dang Ispent the same, all this money
and like nothing transferred.
And then, the deeper I'vegotten into my work and,
truthfully, the more I'vedoubled down on my strengths and
realized what my strengths are,which are group coaching,
facilitation and results drivendata and frameworks.
(02:37):
I'm like, oh my gosh, I wasbuilding this skill set and now
make way more money and have waymore time and life freedom.
So I'm grateful for thebeginnings for sure.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
Yeah, that's awesome.
So today we're talking aboutcreating a signature framework
and before we go into that, thisis going to sound like a silly
question, but tell everybodywhat a framework is, because I
think sometimes we have peoplewho listen to the podcast, who
are brand new in business andthey're like I don't even know
what that is.
I can guess.
I also think there's a lot ofentrepreneurs I was one of them
(03:12):
who goes through our first yearor two years and we hear things
like scale and framework andclient journey and we smile and
nod like we know what people aretalking about.
But on inside we're like do Ihave that?
I don't know yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
Yeah, no-transcript.
(03:52):
You could be delivering this ina one-to-one or one-to-many
environment or some otherfashion, even in a more passive,
like a course.
And then also there's somethingcalled what I call, in a way
like acute frameworks or microframeworks, and these are
frameworks that you're using ata more momentous occasion.
You know, a really common onethat we don't realize is like
the framework stop, drop androll.
(04:12):
That's a process that I know Ilike had ingrained in my
freaking head as a child inelementary school, and it's
actually really effective.
It's a three step framework.
It's's very tangible and ithelps you have a specific
outcome, which is getting awayfrom fire, if you should catch
fire, which I always think is sofunny that it was taught to us
so much.
But that's something that youuse, like in a micro moment
(04:34):
where a signature frameworkwould be over a longer period of
time.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
Okay, so is it similar to the client journey in
terms of like?
Speaker 2 (04:42):
these are the steps that we're taking our clients
through, whether we're a coachor a bookkeeper, or yeah, I
don't see them as synonymous andhere's why the client journey,
for me personally, begins at themoment of first contact and
they get to know your work, andso that's going to look very
different for all of us, becausehow you attract your client and
(05:03):
this kind of nurturing journeywhere eventually they become our
client, and from there theonboarding process, those are
all still part of the journey.
So I would differentiate aframework from the moment you
begin.
Your actual work with them iswhen the framework starts.
(05:26):
So first session, firstexperience, et cetera, till the
culminating step or experienceswhere a framework really
separates you apart.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
Okay, so the framework is part of the client
journey?
Yes, not the whole hundredpercent.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
You got it.
Okay, got it.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
And so I think sometimes when especially for
coaches we hear that and wethink like when I was brand new
in the coaching world, I startedout as a dating and
relationship coach and I wouldhear things like that and think
like when I was brand new in thecoaching world, I started out
as a dating and relationshipcoach, and I would hear things
like that and think like OK,before I start getting clients,
I need a workbook, I need acourse, I need to know, like
every single client, I'm goingto take them through.
(06:04):
The first week is going to bethis, and the second week is
going to be this, and the thirdweek is going to be this, which
worked ish and then sometimesdidn't, to be this, which worked
ish and then sometimes didn't.
So what do people need to kindof start thinking about when
they're?
Speaker 2 (06:19):
thinking about the frameworks.
Yeah, I think that, no matterwhere you are in business, you
know what they're saying is likethe best time to plant a tree
was 10 years ago.
The next best time is now, andthat's how I feel about
frameworks.
I've there's people juststarting out that have the idea
of, like I got to coach allthese people to get a sense of
what my framework is, and sothey are in this place of like a
(06:40):
lack of readiness is, they hope, being clarified through
coaching more clients for free,and I reject that because I
think that one of the mostimportant things you can do is
practice the energy exchange ofgetting paid, even if it's like
$5 for your first client.
But we all have a framework.
You may not see your frameworkyet because, honestly, we suffer
(07:03):
from insider blindness, so wecan't read the label from inside
the bottle, and so we don't seeourselves necessarily as an
export or see the process, andsometimes we just need somebody
to come alongside of us and askus the right questions to say,
hey, you solved a problem andyou have the answers, and you
don't have to have, like it allfigured out.
You don't have to make multipleseven and eight figures to help
(07:25):
a client get to 50 K if you'vealready been there.
But you are perfectlypositioned and prepared to walk
them through a process to getthem results right now.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
I love that and I want to go back and reiterate
for those in the back, nice andloud we do not have to take
clients for free to figure outwhat we're doing or what our
framework is or any of thoseother things that we think like,
well, I need to do X number offree clients first, no matter
(07:54):
what field you're in.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
Yeah, I would agree that the opposite actually
serves you more.
I love getting paid to monetizemy offers.
You know as I make them.
But more importantly, there isa different value that we bring
to the table when someone hasactively chosen in to give them
their energy in the form ofmoney and then you exchange your
energy I mean we all.
I mean simple put like, youtreat a handbag from Walmart
(08:15):
different than you would a LouisVuitton.
So we have to think it appliesto coaching similarly.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, this is a whole otherepisode, but I also think,
especially when you're juststarting out part of, I think,
we like to hide behind the like.
Well, I need to do some freeclients first, because really
we're just really terrified totake people's money, and I think
that there's something reallytransformative in your identity
(08:42):
as a business person that startshappening when someone is
paying you and you aredelivering a result to them.
And you are delivering a resultto them Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
In my communities I say you get one, you get one
freebie, and then we're on tothe next thing and there doesn't
have to be massive jumps, butmicro jumps in pricing as you
gain experience and confidenceis lovely along the way.
Yeah for sure.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
So when we're talking about frameworks, what are some
of the common mistakes that yousee people making when they're
figuring out their frameworks orbuilding their frameworks or
delivering on them?
Speaker 2 (09:19):
Yeah, I really love to.
There's five, but I'm going tohighlight the most frequent ones
that I think are problematic,the first one being probably a
larger business mistake thatties into the framework is that
coaches don't really know theproblem they're solving for
their client.
And your business should befundamentally built on a
(09:42):
solution to a problem.
I love the quote from RobertHerjavec, who is a shark from
Shark Tank, and he sayssomething of the nature I might
butcher it, but it's likesomething like you know,
business is built on problemsLike find the problem, solve the
problem first.
The business comes second.
In the coaching world, sincethat's where I spend most of my
(10:03):
time is coaching, mentorship,therapy I have a lot of
therapists turned coaches isthat we're like we want to
change people's lives, we wantto be a coach I'm a coach but we
don't really know the problemwe're actually solving.
Or we say generic things, likeI'm going to help people feel
empowered and confident, whichare intangible, and they really,
as a prospective client, wereally don't have a visual
(10:25):
understanding or an emotionalunderstanding and attachment to
what that means, and so that'sreally key that we get clear on
the specific problem we solve,because your framework then is
also the solution to thatproblem.
So an ideal client then is likeoh, melissa can get me these
results.
I need her in my life.
I mean, a really tangibleexample is our perspective.
(10:48):
Clients aren't going to Googlesearching mindset coach, trauma
coach.
They're looking for the thingsthat our coaching provide.
Which really leads me to thenext step.
Is that, or the next mistake isthat a lot of coaches are
selling fluffy coaching and thecoaching title themselves
instead of the results that thecoaching actually provides.
If you think of a genericweight loss example, many, most
(11:11):
people and I mean I could provethis through Uber, suggest or
other SEO tools is people aren'tsearching weight loss coaching,
even though in your brain youwant to convince yourself of
that.
They're searching how do I lose20 pounds?
And so that's really what weneed to anchor both our
marketing from a holisticbusiness perspective around, but
also the framework that webuild needs to be a solution to
(11:32):
that and also marketed aroundthem.
So there's two, and I thinkthose two are like the great and
most common mistakes I see.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
Yeah, I would agree with that, and what I love about
those examples, too, isobviously you're talking about
coaching, because that's yourworld and that's where your
clients are.
But everything that you'resaying applies to anyone who is
listening to this podcast, nomatter what business they're in.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
We still yeah, if you're an expert in business, if
you're an expert providing somesort of service product, even
those things apply.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
Yeah, absolutely.
I talk to a lot ofentrepreneurs who struggle to
figure out what problem theysolve, because they don't think
that they solve a problem right,like I just sell skincare
products or I just do likebookkeeping or whatever it is,
but it's like everyone issolving a problem, everyone.
(12:24):
When you were using thatexample, I was thinking about
like some of the things thatI've seen on Shark Tank and like
even the silliest things thatyou think that is really bizarre
, like why, why would someoneeven make this?
Yeah, it's solving a problemfor somebody somewhere.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
Yeah, and most coaches that have failure to
find success are because theyhaven't tried to articulate, or
don't know how to articulate,their problem, and so their
ideal client does not see themas a possible solution and
therefore they have no clients100% yeah, and a lot of times
they don't believe us when wesay finding fulfillment is not a
(13:02):
result.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
Correct yes, helping busy moms that's one of my
favorites is busy moms.
I'm like where are the not busymoms?
Yeah, yeah, true when is thecoach for the not busy mom.
Yeah, yep, I haven't met one ofthose yet.
That always makes me laugh.
Okay, so those are really good.
So what do you think?
(13:23):
You have a model that you useabout that called the reverse
design method, right, and sotell us a little bit about that
and how that works with yourframeworks.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
Yeah, I'm just to go back and share a story.
When I was a second year highschool teacher, I taught anatomy
and biology I'm sorry, biologyfirst and then anatomy and
physiology later on.
But this is when I was secondyear.
I was teaching freshman biology, and I remember at the end of
my second year I had a colleaguecome to me and be like your
test scores are crazy.
Like did you give them the testto study from?
(13:55):
And I was first offended andthen second like patting myself
on the back, cause I was like,okay, I'll take that as a
compliment, because of course Iwasn't giving them the study
guide.
But what I noticed about a lotof my colleagues and many of
them had been doing this formany years, longer than me is
they were what I would call likewinging it teachers, just like
there's winging it coaches outthere is.
They would show up five minutesbefore the bell, get into the
(14:16):
textbook and be like we'rereading chapter two and then
you're going to answer thequestions.
And what I did was different,though.
I studied where the goal wasright, where the finish line was
for my students to havemastered by the end of the
semester, and then Imeticulously spent time
articulating, you know, unitexams, quizzes, lessons, so that
I was assuring mastery andmilestone checking along the way
(14:39):
, and so I've taken that samelearning into everything that I
do in business.
I mean, like a backstory is Istumbled into entrepreneurship.
We grew our first seven figuresin the health and nutrition
space.
I wasn't setting out to do that, but I had my own personal
health and weight loss journeyafter having kids and people
like Amanda help me, and so theonly way I knew how to think was
like okay, where do I want themand how am I going to get them
(15:02):
there?
And so reverse engineering.
That was the process, and sothe foundation of my business
has also always been resultsdriven, and so when your clients
get results guess what?
They go out and become abillboard for your work.
They tell more people, peoplesee their transformation or like
what are you doing?
And I think this is highlyundervalued inside of the
coaching world and, honestly,most service-based businesses is
(15:24):
.
We have like it feels like thisshiny marketing tools, and a
lot of coaches are searching forthese shiny strategies but,
truthfully, is the best?
Clients are the ones that goout and do free marketing for
you, and that only happens whenthey get results.
And so what I teach inside thelab or the Framework Builder Lab
, which is our program where Icoach coaches to build their
(15:45):
frameworks, are we start at theend, like what are the tangible
things that your client will beable to demonstrate or do or
have at the end of the coachingcontainer with you?
And then how do we create kindof pillars or milestones along
the way?
And so that's where that namereverse design comes from, is.
It's a bit counterintuitive formany people, but for me I'm
(16:08):
like it's obvious, like we got.
In order to know where we wantto go, we have to know what the
finish looks like first, and tomany of my students what they
will say is knowing the finishline actually gives you so much
more autonomy in the coachingsession.
It allows you to be a moremasterful coach because you're
like I already know what the endlooks like.
So I can be present right here,right now with Melissa and
(16:29):
listen to her struggles and bein in the moment with her,
knowing there's a framework thatsupports me as a backbone.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
Yeah, that totally makes sense.
I remember as a teacher thephrase that people use all the
time was begin with the end inmind.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
Yeah, absolutely Same idea.
That's a Stephen Covey quote, ahundred percent.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
Yeah, I didn't know where it came from.
I thought it just came from myprincipal.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
Yeah Well, he's smart too he wasn't that smart
actually.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
Okay, that's really good.
So would you say that's thebest place for people to start?
If they're listening to thispodcast and they're like I don't
really know if I have aframework, or I know that I
don't have a framework and Ineed to create one, is that the
best place for them to start isby identifying, like, what is
the end result and what are theobjectives that your clients are
(17:17):
going to have at the end ofworking with you.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
Yeah, I think that's a great place to start is just
ask yourself that question Likewhat do I want them to have?
And then how do I chunk that insteps that make sense, I mean,
from a high level.
That's kind of the process thatI walk through with obviously
deeper support.
But I think it's a great placeat the start and I think, if
you're not sure, if you have aframework or process, the
(17:43):
process.
The other thing I'd ask myselfis do I feel with certainty that
every client who walks throughmy doors has inevitable success,
that I have a process and amethod, methodology that creates
consistency in my clients, ordo I notice that one in every 20
people are getting like decentresults?
If you're, if you're leaningtowards like the one in 20, then
I would say it's an opportunityto tighten up your framework
and there's probably gaps inthere that you know I'd love to
(18:04):
help you with.
That would make you even a morepotent service provider.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
Yeah, that's awesome.
So if people want to connectwith you, if they want to learn
more about the lab and aboutwhat you do, what's the best way
for them to find?
Speaker 2 (18:15):
you.
Well, I'm a podcaster too, sothat's a great place to start.
I host a podcast called BestDamn Coach.
I talk about framework buildingand all things related to
coaching, running a coachingbusiness, so that's a great
place.
But I do offer a free trainingwhere I walk you through kind of
the steps and some of themistakes a little bit deeper
that we chatted about today.
You could come jump into thatat any time you want and that is
(18:37):
at amanda-walkercom forwardslash framework and I'm sure
you'll drop the link or shareaccordingly.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
Yes, absolutely.
I'll put the link to yourpodcast in the show notes and
I'll also put the link to thewebsite so people can grab that
free resource.
That's awesome.
Thank you so much for being aguest on the podcast.
This was really really goodinformation, especially to get
people thinking about, kind ofhow things are working with
their clients and maybe, ifthings aren't working, some ways
that they can tweak theframework to make it work a
(19:05):
little bit better.
It's awesome.
You're brilliant.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
Thank you.
Thank you for that.
I'm so grateful to share.
So thanks for having me.
Hello Amanda, Welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Thanks for having me so pumped to be with you.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Yes, I'm excited to talk to you.
You have such an officialmicrophone too for those who are
watching on YouTube.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Yes, it's very official Full disclosure.
It's a $20 wrap from Amazon, soyou know, just add a little
branded imaging.
But I do kind of love it.
It makes me feel official.
Yeah, it makes you look verycool.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Thank you.
A little branded imaging, but Ido kind of love it.
It makes me feel official.
Yeah, it makes you look verycool.
So I've got that going for you.
Before we dive into today, telleverybody a little bit about
you and about what you do.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Yeah, I am a former high school teacher.
I actually want to reverse.
I started my first.
My first job ever was as acoach.
I was 15.
I was working for the local Ycoaching boys basketball for
five and six-year-olds which,funny enough, was more like
herding cats and less likecoaching.
But it was really like thedomino that set cadence to my
(00:54):
life because I realized, man, Ilove freaking, helping people
and watching this transformationtake place, and so I thought I
was going to do that first inmedicine, went to school to be a
physician, decided thatlifestyle is not for me, and so
I ended up getting a graduatedegree in teaching and coaching
and taught high school until Ihad kids, and that was really a
major life transition for mebecause I was like I love
(01:16):
teaching but I love my kids more, and kind of took a year's
leave and stumbled intoentrepreneurship and kind of
transitioned those skills intowhat I do now.
So now I'm known as theframework building ninja.
I'm the coach's coach, as somewill call me as well.
So I teach coaches how to puttogether like their lived
(01:36):
experience and their formalexperience and create their own
signature methodology so theycan build authority and then to
really help them take that andbuild a coaching business that
actually makes money in theindustry that exists right now.
So I'm super excited to share,you know, whatever zone of
genius I can with people to helpguide them to results.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
That's awesome.
I feel like there's a lot offormer teachers turned coaches.
I was a teacher also.
I didn't do it quite as long asyou, I only did it for four
years.
But it's interesting becausesometimes I think initially I
thought wow, I went through allof that time and money to get a
degree that I'm not even using,but I actually use it all the
time as a coach.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
I agree with you.
I used to say that I used tohave this shame.
At first I was like dang Ispent the same, all this money
and like nothing transferred.
And then, the deeper I'vegotten into my work and,
truthfully, the more I'vedoubled down on my strengths and
realized what my strengths are,which are group coaching,
facilitation and results drivendata and frameworks.
(02:37):
I'm like, oh my gosh, I wasbuilding this skill set and now
make way more money and have waymore time and life freedom.
So I'm grateful for thebeginnings for sure.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
Yeah, that's awesome.
So today we're talking aboutcreating a signature framework
and before we go into that, thisis going to sound like a silly
question, but tell everybodywhat a framework is, because I
think sometimes we have peoplewho listen to the podcast, who
are brand new in business andthey're like I don't even know
what that is.
I can guess.
I also think there's a lot ofentrepreneurs I was one of them
(03:12):
who goes through our first yearor two years and we hear things
like scale and framework andclient journey and we smile and
nod like we know what people aretalking about.
But on inside we're like do Ihave that?
I don't know yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
Yeah, no-transcript.
(03:52):
You could be delivering this ina one-to-one or one-to-many
environment or some otherfashion, even in a more passive,
like a course.
And then also there's somethingcalled what I call, in a way
like acute frameworks or microframeworks, and these are
frameworks that you're using ata more momentous occasion.
You know, a really common onethat we don't realize is like
the framework stop, drop androll.
(04:12):
That's a process that I know Ilike had ingrained in my
freaking head as a child inelementary school, and it's
actually really effective.
It's a three step framework.
It's's very tangible and ithelps you have a specific
outcome, which is getting awayfrom fire, if you should catch
fire, which I always think is sofunny that it was taught to us
so much.
But that's something that youuse, like in a micro moment
(04:34):
where a signature frameworkwould be over a longer period of
time.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
Okay, so is it similar to the client journey in
terms of like?
Speaker 2 (04:42):
these are the steps that we're taking our clients
through, whether we're a coachor a bookkeeper, or yeah, I
don't see them as synonymous andhere's why the client journey,
for me personally, begins at themoment of first contact and
they get to know your work, andso that's going to look very
different for all of us, becausehow you attract your client and
(05:03):
this kind of nurturing journeywhere eventually they become our
client, and from there theonboarding process, those are
all still part of the journey.
So I would differentiate aframework from the moment you
begin.
Your actual work with them iswhen the framework starts.
(05:26):
So first session, firstexperience, et cetera, till the
culminating step or experienceswhere a framework really
separates you apart.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
Okay, so the framework is part of the client
journey?
Yes, not the whole hundredpercent.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
You got it.
Okay, got it.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
And so I think sometimes when especially for
coaches we hear that and wethink like when I was brand new
in the coaching world, I startedout as a dating and
relationship coach and I wouldhear things like that and think
like when I was brand new in thecoaching world, I started out
as a dating and relationshipcoach, and I would hear things
like that and think like OK,before I start getting clients,
I need a workbook, I need acourse, I need to know, like
every single client, I'm goingto take them through.
(06:04):
The first week is going to bethis, and the second week is
going to be this, and the thirdweek is going to be this, which
worked ish and then sometimesdidn't, to be this, which worked
ish and then sometimes didn't.
So what do people need to kindof start thinking about when
they're?
Speaker 2 (06:19):
thinking about the frameworks.
Yeah, I think that, no matterwhere you are in business, you
know what they're saying is likethe best time to plant a tree
was 10 years ago.
The next best time is now, andthat's how I feel about
frameworks.
I've there's people juststarting out that have the idea
of, like I got to coach allthese people to get a sense of
what my framework is, and sothey are in this place of like a
(06:40):
lack of readiness is, they hope, being clarified through
coaching more clients for free,and I reject that because I
think that one of the mostimportant things you can do is
practice the energy exchange ofgetting paid, even if it's like
$5 for your first client.
But we all have a framework.
You may not see your frameworkyet because, honestly, we suffer
(07:03):
from insider blindness, so wecan't read the label from inside
the bottle, and so we don't seeourselves necessarily as an
export or see the process, andsometimes we just need somebody
to come alongside of us and askus the right questions to say,
hey, you solved a problem andyou have the answers, and you
don't have to have, like it allfigured out.
You don't have to make multipleseven and eight figures to help
(07:25):
a client get to 50 K if you'vealready been there.
But you are perfectlypositioned and prepared to walk
them through a process to getthem results right now.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
I love that and I want to go back and reiterate
for those in the back, nice andloud we do not have to take
clients for free to figure outwhat we're doing or what our
framework is or any of thoseother things that we think like,
well, I need to do X number offree clients first, no matter
(07:54):
what field you're in.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
Yeah, I would agree that the opposite actually
serves you more.
I love getting paid to monetizemy offers.
You know as I make them.
But more importantly, there isa different value that we bring
to the table when someone hasactively chosen in to give them
their energy in the form ofmoney and then you exchange your
energy I mean we all.
I mean simple put like, youtreat a handbag from Walmart
(08:15):
different than you would a LouisVuitton.
So we have to think it appliesto coaching similarly.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, this is a whole otherepisode, but I also think,
especially when you're juststarting out part of, I think,
we like to hide behind the like.
Well, I need to do some freeclients first, because really
we're just really terrified totake people's money, and I think
that there's something reallytransformative in your identity
(08:42):
as a business person that startshappening when someone is
paying you and you aredelivering a result to them.
And you are delivering a resultto them Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
In my communities I say you get one, you get one
freebie, and then we're on tothe next thing and there doesn't
have to be massive jumps, butmicro jumps in pricing as you
gain experience and confidenceis lovely along the way.
Yeah for sure.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
So when we're talking about frameworks, what are some
of the common mistakes that yousee people making when they're
figuring out their frameworks orbuilding their frameworks or
delivering on them?
Speaker 2 (09:19):
Yeah, I really love to.
There's five, but I'm going tohighlight the most frequent ones
that I think are problematic,the first one being probably a
larger business mistake thatties into the framework is that
coaches don't really know theproblem they're solving for
their client.
And your business should befundamentally built on a
(09:42):
solution to a problem.
I love the quote from RobertHerjavec, who is a shark from
Shark Tank, and he sayssomething of the nature I might
butcher it, but it's likesomething like you know,
business is built on problemsLike find the problem, solve the
problem first.
The business comes second.
In the coaching world, sincethat's where I spend most of my
(10:03):
time is coaching, mentorship,therapy I have a lot of
therapists turned coaches isthat we're like we want to
change people's lives, we wantto be a coach I'm a coach but we
don't really know the problemwe're actually solving.
Or we say generic things, likeI'm going to help people feel
empowered and confident, whichare intangible, and they really,
as a prospective client, wereally don't have a visual
(10:25):
understanding or an emotionalunderstanding and attachment to
what that means, and so that'sreally key that we get clear on
the specific problem we solve,because your framework then is
also the solution to thatproblem.
So an ideal client then is likeoh, melissa can get me these
results.
I need her in my life.
I mean, a really tangibleexample is our perspective.
(10:48):
Clients aren't going to Googlesearching mindset coach, trauma
coach.
They're looking for the thingsthat our coaching provide.
Which really leads me to thenext step.
Is that, or the next mistake isthat a lot of coaches are
selling fluffy coaching and thecoaching title themselves
instead of the results that thecoaching actually provides.
If you think of a genericweight loss example, many, most
(11:11):
people and I mean I could provethis through Uber, suggest or
other SEO tools is people aren'tsearching weight loss coaching,
even though in your brain youwant to convince yourself of
that.
They're searching how do I lose20 pounds?
And so that's really what weneed to anchor both our
marketing from a holisticbusiness perspective around, but
also the framework that webuild needs to be a solution to
(11:32):
that and also marketed aroundthem.
So there's two, and I thinkthose two are like the great and
most common mistakes I see.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
Yeah, I would agree with that, and what I love about
those examples, too, isobviously you're talking about
coaching, because that's yourworld and that's where your
clients are.
But everything that you'resaying applies to anyone who is
listening to this podcast, nomatter what business they're in.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
We still yeah, if you're an expert in business, if
you're an expert providing somesort of service product, even
those things apply.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
Yeah, absolutely.
I talk to a lot ofentrepreneurs who struggle to
figure out what problem theysolve, because they don't think
that they solve a problem right,like I just sell skincare
products or I just do likebookkeeping or whatever it is,
but it's like everyone issolving a problem, everyone.
(12:24):
When you were using thatexample, I was thinking about
like some of the things thatI've seen on Shark Tank and like
even the silliest things thatyou think that is really bizarre
, like why, why would someoneeven make this?
Yeah, it's solving a problemfor somebody somewhere.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
Yeah, and most coaches that have failure to
find success are because theyhaven't tried to articulate, or
don't know how to articulate,their problem, and so their
ideal client does not see themas a possible solution and
therefore they have no clients100% yeah, and a lot of times
they don't believe us when wesay finding fulfillment is not a
(13:02):
result.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
Correct yes, helping busy moms that's one of my
favorites is busy moms.
I'm like where are the not busymoms?
Yeah, yeah, true when is thecoach for the not busy mom.
Yeah, yep, I haven't met one ofthose yet.
That always makes me laugh.
Okay, so those are really good.
So what do you think?
(13:23):
You have a model that you useabout that called the reverse
design method, right, and sotell us a little bit about that
and how that works with yourframeworks.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
Yeah, I'm just to go back and share a story.
When I was a second year highschool teacher, I taught anatomy
and biology I'm sorry, biologyfirst and then anatomy and
physiology later on.
But this is when I was secondyear.
I was teaching freshman biology, and I remember at the end of
my second year I had a colleaguecome to me and be like your
test scores are crazy.
Like did you give them the testto study from?
(13:55):
And I was first offended andthen second like patting myself
on the back, cause I was like,okay, I'll take that as a
compliment, because of course Iwasn't giving them the study
guide.
But what I noticed about a lotof my colleagues and many of
them had been doing this formany years, longer than me is
they were what I would call likewinging it teachers, just like
there's winging it coaches outthere is.
They would show up five minutesbefore the bell, get into the
(14:16):
textbook and be like we'rereading chapter two and then
you're going to answer thequestions.
And what I did was different,though.
I studied where the goal wasright, where the finish line was
for my students to havemastered by the end of the
semester, and then Imeticulously spent time
articulating, you know, unitexams, quizzes, lessons, so that
I was assuring mastery andmilestone checking along the way
(14:39):
, and so I've taken that samelearning into everything that I
do in business.
I mean, like a backstory is Istumbled into entrepreneurship.
We grew our first seven figuresin the health and nutrition
space.
I wasn't setting out to do that, but I had my own personal
health and weight loss journeyafter having kids and people
like Amanda help me, and so theonly way I knew how to think was
like okay, where do I want themand how am I going to get them
(15:02):
there?
And so reverse engineering.
That was the process, and sothe foundation of my business
has also always been resultsdriven, and so when your clients
get results guess what?
They go out and become abillboard for your work.
They tell more people, peoplesee their transformation or like
what are you doing?
And I think this is highlyundervalued inside of the
coaching world and, honestly,most service-based businesses is
(15:24):
.
We have like it feels like thisshiny marketing tools, and a
lot of coaches are searching forthese shiny strategies but,
truthfully, is the best?
Clients are the ones that goout and do free marketing for
you, and that only happens whenthey get results.
And so what I teach inside thelab or the Framework Builder Lab
, which is our program where Icoach coaches to build their
(15:45):
frameworks, are we start at theend, like what are the tangible
things that your client will beable to demonstrate or do or
have at the end of the coachingcontainer with you?
And then how do we create kindof pillars or milestones along
the way?
And so that's where that namereverse design comes from, is.
It's a bit counterintuitive formany people, but for me I'm
(16:08):
like it's obvious, like we got.
In order to know where we wantto go, we have to know what the
finish looks like first, and tomany of my students what they
will say is knowing the finishline actually gives you so much
more autonomy in the coachingsession.
It allows you to be a moremasterful coach because you're
like I already know what the endlooks like.
So I can be present right here,right now with Melissa and
(16:29):
listen to her struggles and bein in the moment with her,
knowing there's a framework thatsupports me as a backbone.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
Yeah, that totally makes sense.
I remember as a teacher thephrase that people use all the
time was begin with the end inmind.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
Yeah, absolutely Same idea.
That's a Stephen Covey quote, ahundred percent.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
Yeah, I didn't know where it came from.
I thought it just came from myprincipal.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
Yeah Well, he's smart too he wasn't that smart
actually.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
Okay, that's really good.
So would you say that's thebest place for people to start?
If they're listening to thispodcast and they're like I don't
really know if I have aframework, or I know that I
don't have a framework and Ineed to create one, is that the
best place for them to start isby identifying, like, what is
the end result and what are theobjectives that your clients are
(17:17):
going to have at the end ofworking with you.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
Yeah, I think that's a great place to start is just
ask yourself that question Likewhat do I want them to have?
And then how do I chunk that insteps that make sense, I mean,
from a high level.
That's kind of the process thatI walk through with obviously
deeper support.
But I think it's a great placeat the start and I think, if
you're not sure, if you have aframework or process, the
(17:43):
process.
The other thing I'd ask myselfis do I feel with certainty that
every client who walks throughmy doors has inevitable success,
that I have a process and amethod, methodology that creates
consistency in my clients, ordo I notice that one in every 20
people are getting like decentresults?
If you're, if you're leaningtowards like the one in 20, then
I would say it's an opportunityto tighten up your framework
and there's probably gaps inthere that you know I'd love to
(18:04):
help you with.
That would make you even a morepotent service provider.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
Yeah, that's awesome.
So if people want to connectwith you, if they want to learn
more about the lab and aboutwhat you do, what's the best way
for them to find?
Speaker 2 (18:15):
you.
Well, I'm a podcaster too, sothat's a great place to start.
I host a podcast called BestDamn Coach.
I talk about framework buildingand all things related to
coaching, running a coachingbusiness, so that's a great
place.
But I do offer a free trainingwhere I walk you through kind of
the steps and some of themistakes a little bit deeper
that we chatted about today.
You could come jump into thatat any time you want and that is
(18:37):
at amanda-walkercom forwardslash framework and I'm sure
you'll drop the link or shareaccordingly.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
Yes, absolutely.
I'll put the link to yourpodcast in the show notes and
I'll also put the link to thewebsite so people can grab that
free resource.
That's awesome.
Thank you so much for being aguest on the podcast.
This was really really goodinformation, especially to get
people thinking about, kind ofhow things are working with
their clients and maybe, ifthings aren't working, some ways
that they can tweak theframework to make it work a
(19:05):
little bit better.
It's awesome.
You're brilliant.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
Thank you.
Thank you for that.
I'm so grateful to share.
So thanks for having me.
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