November 7, 2023 • 16 mins
For more than three decades, Phil Williams has set the standard in Nashville for serious investigative journalism on the state and local level, earning him honors and praise from his peers and, now, the local community.
At WTVF-5, the CBS affiliate owned by The E.W. Scripps Co., Williams attracted outsized attention for his coverage of a mayoral race in Franklin, Tenn., that drew national attention — and death threats. His on-air efforts exposing falsehoods and a candidate's link to white supremacists, which led to the defeat of the controversial aspiring Mayor, also resulted in a full-page ad in the city’s newspaper that directly saluted Williams for displaying “utmost professionalism, even when they encountered threats to their personal safety.”
To discuss how Williams uncovered the sordid tales surrounding Gabrielle Hanson, which gained national attention and a lengthy story on Last Week Tonight with John Oliver, Williams joins RBR+TVBR Editor-in-Chief Adam R Jacobson on the latest InFOCUS Podcast, presented by dot.FM.
At WTVF-5, the CBS affiliate owned by The E.W. Scripps Co., Williams attracted outsized attention for his coverage of a mayoral race in Franklin, Tenn., that drew national attention — and death threats. His on-air efforts exposing falsehoods and a candidate's link to white supremacists, which led to the defeat of the controversial aspiring Mayor, also resulted in a full-page ad in the city’s newspaper that directly saluted Williams for displaying “utmost professionalism, even when they encountered threats to their personal safety.”
To discuss how Williams uncovered the sordid tales surrounding Gabrielle Hanson, which gained national attention and a lengthy story on Last Week Tonight with John Oliver, Williams joins RBR+TVBR Editor-in-Chief Adam R Jacobson on the latest InFOCUS Podcast, presented by dot.FM.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:02):
This is the RBR TVBR in Focuspodcast. Here's your host, Radio and
Television Business Report Editor in chief AdamR. Jacobson. Hello again, and
welcome to the podcast, which ispresented by dot fm streaming social podcast broadcast
getta dot fm domain name by headingover to get dot fm. Today and
today we're speaking with news Channel fivein Nashville's chief investigative reporter, Phil Williams.
(00:28):
He's at WTVF, the CBS affiliateowned by the E W Scripts Company,
and Williams has perhaps attracted outside attentionof late for his coverage of a
mayoral race in Franklin, Tennessee thatdrew national attention. His on air efforts
also resulted in a full page advertisementin the city's newspaper that directly saluted him
(00:51):
and other journalists for their quote utmostprofessionalism, even when they encountered threats to
their personal safety. To learn moreabout the events that unfolded in Franklin and
how Williams covered it for news Channelfive, we welcome him to the podcast.
How are things in Franklin, Tennesseetoday, Phil, Well, Things
are calm in Franklin, but there'sstill a lot of controversially swirling around since
(01:17):
that. So it's one day ata time to brief our audience on what
happened. Conspiracy claims arose following defeatof Gabrielle Hanson and the mayoral race in
Franklin, Tennessee, which was heldin late October. This came after Hanson
raised concerns about voting machines and aftera defensive individuals in her circle who were
(01:42):
determined to be white supremacists. Thebiggest headline seen in the last several weeks,
however, saw a key Republican organizationrevoke their endorsement of miss Hanson after
a news Channel five investigation. Canyou fill us in on all of this
how you specifically were involved in thestory, Phil, Yeah, it really
(02:04):
began with one story that you know, had piqued my interests, a question
about a social media post that MissHenson made claiming that a photo of a
diverse group of women represented her sortof inner circle, her her supporters.
(02:27):
And there were some hints on socialmedia that perhaps that photo had not been
taken in Franklin, but you know, perhaps had been taken into Chicago.
So using some search tools, Idetermined who the women were in contacted them,
and you know, the people Ispoke with said they didn't know her,
(02:50):
they had never supported her. Andthen it just kept growing from one
bizarre development to another. You know, ultimately where you had white supremacists showing
up at a candidate's forum in ashow of force for Miss Henson, and
I confronted those white supremacists. Itried to ascertain why they were there.
(03:16):
They said they were there to showsupport, to provide protection for her against
what they called Antifa, and thenshe sort of disavowed them, but then
immediately shared some of their social mediaposts, and she never really separated herself
(03:38):
from those white supremacists. The whitesupremacists then started making threats against individuals in
the community, against myself, andso it was certainly one of, if
not the most bizarre story in mycareer, just the way it unfolded.
The mayoral race was featured in theLast Week Tonight with John Oliver, the
(04:00):
satirical news magazine that appears on HBOthat does do reporting on very serious subjects
such as this. Even while thelive audience was laughing at the fact that
this so called friend, noted insocial media by miss Hanson, had no
idea who she was. Your reportingfueled much about falsehoods, and it seems
(04:23):
like your efforts stand out in anotherway to us because we think of a
member of Congress named George Santos.He was elected despite numerous misrepresentations, falsehoods,
lies, and litany of other accusations, and local media coverage pre election
was arguably limited. What does thissay about the importance of TV news as
(04:45):
a watchdog for communities across the USwhen it comes to accountability, especially in
an environment where local newspapers are threatenedevery day by more layoffs and the local
news teams perhaps in other more marketsmay not be as robust as your market.
I think it's definitely a wake upcall for all of us in the
(05:05):
industry because obviously resources are stretched thin, and to be honest, had it
not been for a tip from aviewer that this individual with ties to white
supremacists likely would have been elected mayorin the city of Franklin. It was
(05:26):
a viewer who called my attention tothis, but otherwise this race probably would
have received very little media attention.For me, you know what, we
had our own congressional candidate following centiswho I discovered had embellished his resume.
(05:47):
But after the election was when Idiscovered it. And I really think that
this is an opportunity for those ofus in journalism to have a conversation about
how can we do a better jobof vetting candidates for public office. Perhaps
(06:09):
we need to consider some consortiums,some some you know research groups you know
that you know work across company lines, uh and do research because there are
probably many many candidates like miss Henson, like George Sentis who are escaping attention
(06:31):
even as we speak. Some peoplemay be familiar with Tennessee's seventh Congressional district
as the home of Representative Mark Green. They also named be familiar with Franklin,
Tennessee because of its proximity to Nashville. I would say that it's fifty
percent urban, fifty percent rule asabout eight hundred thousand people decent median household
(06:53):
income. Sounds like a lot ofdifferent communities across the United States. So
when we hear that they were threatsto personal safety, that particularly unnerves us,
because what you were doing was quitefrankly, your job. However,
there may be some that believe thatyou somehow interfered with political campaign, and
there may have been some purpose filledaction in your investigative work that led to
(07:17):
ms Hansen's defeats. So how doesa journalist and a media organization overcome such
accusations when we live in an environmentwhere voter fraud and election day trust is
at a low and locale stretching fromPhoenix, Arizona, where scripts as a
station, to Savannah, Georgia.Regarding the Senate runoff race, I think
(07:39):
the first thing we have to dois being overly transparent, to be more
transparent than we have ever been,to explain to our viewers why we are
doing what we are doing. Forexample, in this race, there were
criticisms with people saying, well,you always side with the Democrats. Well,
(08:03):
there were no Democrats in this race. Every candidate in the city election
was a Republican, and so therewas a need to constantly remind viewers of
this is not a choice between Democratsand Republicans as some would like to portray
it. This is a battle betweenRepublicans and we're just doing our job.
(08:26):
The other thing that has become amuch more important part of my story my
process is to look for what Icall credible messengers viewers in very conservative areas
are more likely to turn off progressivesthat we interview for our stories. Uh,
(08:50):
And so it is important to findvoices that our viewers can relate to.
So if I'm doing an investigation ofa Republican, as much as possible,
I tried to find Republican voices forthose investigations, just to take away
the argument that, you know,us doing our job is purely partisan.
(09:13):
At what point did you in theteam at news Channel five realized that you
had gained the public's trust and wasgaining that trust ever a concern that it
would perhaps never arrive. You know, you always worry about that, but
this was such a black and whitestory. I mean, you know,
(09:35):
investigative reporters don't do well with grades, but this was so black and white,
with you know, one candidate,you know, openly embracing neo Nazis
and white supremacists. Uh that youknow number one, I thought, I
think viewers could clearly relate to that. And secondly, you know, I
(09:56):
was fairly transparent about the threats thatI was receiving. It's important for viewers
to know that there is a personalprice that comes with you know, what
we do sometimes, uh, Andthat we're not taking it lightly. We
(10:16):
don't enjoy having white supremacists warn usabout the coming quote day of the roupe.
But you know, we do whatwe do because of a sense of
responsibility, a sense of calling.And so I think the fact that I
(10:37):
was willing to, you know,take personal risks to tell this story,
you know, really did resonate withthe viewers in this community. What did
it mean for you though? WhenI mean a threat of personal safety could
lead you to a lockdown, Imean could you go to sprouts or republics
(10:58):
without having to worry about someone physicallyattacking you, let alone verbally attacking you
for your work? I think,you know, you always want to take
reasonable precautions, and certainly I didtake wease a book precautions. Scripts was
(11:18):
very good about being supportive and andtrying to figure out any way that they
could to you know, make mefeel safer, to make sure that I
was safe. But if if youlet those kinds of threats hamper you,
then that's a victory for the peoplemaking the threats. Uh. And in
(11:43):
my sense is you know, ifif if I don't do this type of
investigation, if I don't do thistype of reporting. If we don't do
it, who will. And sothere is just a real personal obligation to
carry in and to do our jobs. And I think that's the most important
(12:05):
lesson for me is at the endof the day, we still have jobs
to do. One final question foryou, and I don't know if it's
an easy one. I'm just wonderingif news Channel five, in your mind
and in the minds of viewers,stood out for its coverage of the mayoral
race compared to other news organizations inthe area, which arguably did a pretty
(12:26):
good job. The Tennesseean, whichis the Ganeto newspaper serving Nashville. You
had the Williamson Herald, which weunderstand is a local newspaper in Franklin.
There were two other TV stations thatwere cited in an anominous ad that would
appear in the Williams and Herald,which we just talked about. Commending the
work that everyone did, including yourself. With all that, is there one
(12:52):
thing that you think really distinguishes whatyou're doing and what your TV station has
been doing. Oh, I thinkour commitment to the story was unprecedented.
That there were there were there werecertainly other coverage, but nothing that was
even close to what we were doing. I mean, we were uncovering one
(13:13):
major scoop after another. And andthe other thing is that with some of
the local newspapers, you had fairlyyoung, fairly inexperienced reporters who perhaps were
not as willing to uh, youknow, approach the white supremacists. For
(13:33):
example, one of the local newsorganizations asked to use our images, photos
that I had taken and photos andimages that my photographer had taken, because
you know, their young journalists havebeen too intimidated to take photos of the
white supremacists. So that there isno doubt that, you know, we
(13:54):
were committed to the story from dayone. We broke all the big stories
just because it was the right thingto do. What's next for you in
terms of the things that you're lookingout for when it comes to the Nashville
community. Are you going to betaking a cue from your colleague Orray Johnson
(14:16):
by doing some stand up or areyou going to just be really focused on
some of the serious issues which you'vegotten some national attention for. Yeah,
I don't think stand up in myfuture. My focus in the last couple
of years especially, has been verymuch democracy forward, focusing on how our
(14:39):
government works, how it doesn't work. And I think the lesson that I
have learned from this experience in Franklinis the loudest voices may not represent the
voice of the people. And thatgives me hope that you know, yes,
there are going to be voices,you know, like I'm currently enduring
(15:01):
on another story that are loud,that are threatening, but those loud voices
do not necessarily represent the people thatwe serve. It's really been a pleasure
speaking with you, and I lovethat final comment. Phil Williams, chief
investigated reporter at news Channel five inNational, thank you so much for being
(15:24):
my guest today on the podcast.Absolutely and if you would like to watch
News Channel five online, it's easyto do so. Just go to news
Channel number five dot com and watchany newscasts live and on demand on that
website brought to you by the eW Scripts Company. With that, we
want to thank you for listening tothis radio and television business report and Focus
(15:46):
podcast presented by dot fm, streamingsocial podcast or broadcast. Get a dot
fm domain ame by heading over toget dot fm today from the headquarters of
Streamline Publishing and Boca Raton, Florida, home of the Radio and Television Business
Report and co owned magazine Radio Inc. I'm Adam R. Jacobson for the
(16:06):
In Focused podcast. Have a greatday. We'll see you next time.
This is the RBR TVBR in Focuspodcast. Here's your host, Radio and
Television Business Report Editor in chief AdamR. Jacobson. Hello again, and
welcome to the podcast, which ispresented by dot fm streaming social podcast broadcast
getta dot fm domain name by headingover to get dot fm. Today and
today we're speaking with news Channel fivein Nashville's chief investigative reporter, Phil Williams.
(00:28):
He's at WTVF, the CBS affiliateowned by the E W Scripts Company,
and Williams has perhaps attracted outside attentionof late for his coverage of a
mayoral race in Franklin, Tennessee thatdrew national attention. His on air efforts
also resulted in a full page advertisementin the city's newspaper that directly saluted him
(00:51):
and other journalists for their quote utmostprofessionalism, even when they encountered threats to
their personal safety. To learn moreabout the events that unfolded in Franklin and
how Williams covered it for news Channelfive, we welcome him to the podcast.
How are things in Franklin, Tennesseetoday, Phil, Well, Things
are calm in Franklin, but there'sstill a lot of controversially swirling around since
(01:17):
that. So it's one day ata time to brief our audience on what
happened. Conspiracy claims arose following defeatof Gabrielle Hanson and the mayoral race in
Franklin, Tennessee, which was heldin late October. This came after Hanson
raised concerns about voting machines and aftera defensive individuals in her circle who were
(01:42):
determined to be white supremacists. Thebiggest headline seen in the last several weeks,
however, saw a key Republican organizationrevoke their endorsement of miss Hanson after
a news Channel five investigation. Canyou fill us in on all of this
how you specifically were involved in thestory, Phil, Yeah, it really
(02:04):
began with one story that you know, had piqued my interests, a question
about a social media post that MissHenson made claiming that a photo of a
diverse group of women represented her sortof inner circle, her her supporters.
(02:27):
And there were some hints on socialmedia that perhaps that photo had not been
taken in Franklin, but you know, perhaps had been taken into Chicago.
So using some search tools, Idetermined who the women were in contacted them,
and you know, the people Ispoke with said they didn't know her,
(02:50):
they had never supported her. Andthen it just kept growing from one
bizarre development to another. You know, ultimately where you had white supremacists showing
up at a candidate's forum in ashow of force for Miss Henson, and
I confronted those white supremacists. Itried to ascertain why they were there.
(03:16):
They said they were there to showsupport, to provide protection for her against
what they called Antifa, and thenshe sort of disavowed them, but then
immediately shared some of their social mediaposts, and she never really separated herself
(03:38):
from those white supremacists. The whitesupremacists then started making threats against individuals in
the community, against myself, andso it was certainly one of, if
not the most bizarre story in mycareer, just the way it unfolded.
The mayoral race was featured in theLast Week Tonight with John Oliver, the
(04:00):
satirical news magazine that appears on HBOthat does do reporting on very serious subjects
such as this. Even while thelive audience was laughing at the fact that
this so called friend, noted insocial media by miss Hanson, had no
idea who she was. Your reportingfueled much about falsehoods, and it seems
(04:23):
like your efforts stand out in anotherway to us because we think of a
member of Congress named George Santos.He was elected despite numerous misrepresentations, falsehoods,
lies, and litany of other accusations, and local media coverage pre election
was arguably limited. What does thissay about the importance of TV news as
(04:45):
a watchdog for communities across the USwhen it comes to accountability, especially in
an environment where local newspapers are threatenedevery day by more layoffs and the local
news teams perhaps in other more marketsmay not be as robust as your market.
I think it's definitely a wake upcall for all of us in the
(05:05):
industry because obviously resources are stretched thin, and to be honest, had it
not been for a tip from aviewer that this individual with ties to white
supremacists likely would have been elected mayorin the city of Franklin. It was
(05:26):
a viewer who called my attention tothis, but otherwise this race probably would
have received very little media attention.For me, you know what, we
had our own congressional candidate following centiswho I discovered had embellished his resume.
(05:47):
But after the election was when Idiscovered it. And I really think that
this is an opportunity for those ofus in journalism to have a conversation about
how can we do a better jobof vetting candidates for public office. Perhaps
(06:09):
we need to consider some consortiums,some some you know research groups you know
that you know work across company lines, uh and do research because there are
probably many many candidates like miss Henson, like George Sentis who are escaping attention
(06:31):
even as we speak. Some peoplemay be familiar with Tennessee's seventh Congressional district
as the home of Representative Mark Green. They also named be familiar with Franklin,
Tennessee because of its proximity to Nashville. I would say that it's fifty
percent urban, fifty percent rule asabout eight hundred thousand people decent median household
(06:53):
income. Sounds like a lot ofdifferent communities across the United States. So
when we hear that they were threatsto personal safety, that particularly unnerves us,
because what you were doing was quitefrankly, your job. However,
there may be some that believe thatyou somehow interfered with political campaign, and
there may have been some purpose filledaction in your investigative work that led to
(07:17):
ms Hansen's defeats. So how doesa journalist and a media organization overcome such
accusations when we live in an environmentwhere voter fraud and election day trust is
at a low and locale stretching fromPhoenix, Arizona, where scripts as a
station, to Savannah, Georgia.Regarding the Senate runoff race, I think
(07:39):
the first thing we have to dois being overly transparent, to be more
transparent than we have ever been,to explain to our viewers why we are
doing what we are doing. Forexample, in this race, there were
criticisms with people saying, well,you always side with the Democrats. Well,
(08:03):
there were no Democrats in this race. Every candidate in the city election
was a Republican, and so therewas a need to constantly remind viewers of
this is not a choice between Democratsand Republicans as some would like to portray
it. This is a battle betweenRepublicans and we're just doing our job.
(08:26):
The other thing that has become amuch more important part of my story my
process is to look for what Icall credible messengers viewers in very conservative areas
are more likely to turn off progressivesthat we interview for our stories. Uh,
(08:50):
And so it is important to findvoices that our viewers can relate to.
So if I'm doing an investigation ofa Republican, as much as possible,
I tried to find Republican voices forthose investigations, just to take away
the argument that, you know,us doing our job is purely partisan.
(09:13):
At what point did you in theteam at news Channel five realized that you
had gained the public's trust and wasgaining that trust ever a concern that it
would perhaps never arrive. You know, you always worry about that, but
this was such a black and whitestory. I mean, you know,
(09:35):
investigative reporters don't do well with grades, but this was so black and white,
with you know, one candidate,you know, openly embracing neo Nazis
and white supremacists. Uh that youknow number one, I thought, I
think viewers could clearly relate to that. And secondly, you know, I
(09:56):
was fairly transparent about the threats thatI was receiving. It's important for viewers
to know that there is a personalprice that comes with you know, what
we do sometimes, uh, Andthat we're not taking it lightly. We
(10:16):
don't enjoy having white supremacists warn usabout the coming quote day of the roupe.
But you know, we do whatwe do because of a sense of
responsibility, a sense of calling.And so I think the fact that I
(10:37):
was willing to, you know,take personal risks to tell this story,
you know, really did resonate withthe viewers in this community. What did
it mean for you though? WhenI mean a threat of personal safety could
lead you to a lockdown, Imean could you go to sprouts or republics
(10:58):
without having to worry about someone physicallyattacking you, let alone verbally attacking you
for your work? I think,you know, you always want to take
reasonable precautions, and certainly I didtake wease a book precautions. Scripts was
(11:18):
very good about being supportive and andtrying to figure out any way that they
could to you know, make mefeel safer, to make sure that I
was safe. But if if youlet those kinds of threats hamper you,
then that's a victory for the peoplemaking the threats. Uh. And in
(11:43):
my sense is you know, ifif if I don't do this type of
investigation, if I don't do thistype of reporting. If we don't do
it, who will. And sothere is just a real personal obligation to
carry in and to do our jobs. And I think that's the most important
(12:05):
lesson for me is at the endof the day, we still have jobs
to do. One final question foryou, and I don't know if it's
an easy one. I'm just wonderingif news Channel five, in your mind
and in the minds of viewers,stood out for its coverage of the mayoral
race compared to other news organizations inthe area, which arguably did a pretty
(12:26):
good job. The Tennesseean, whichis the Ganeto newspaper serving Nashville. You
had the Williamson Herald, which weunderstand is a local newspaper in Franklin.
There were two other TV stations thatwere cited in an anominous ad that would
appear in the Williams and Herald,which we just talked about. Commending the
work that everyone did, including yourself. With all that, is there one
(12:52):
thing that you think really distinguishes whatyou're doing and what your TV station has
been doing. Oh, I thinkour commitment to the story was unprecedented.
That there were there were there werecertainly other coverage, but nothing that was
even close to what we were doing. I mean, we were uncovering one
(13:13):
major scoop after another. And andthe other thing is that with some of
the local newspapers, you had fairlyyoung, fairly inexperienced reporters who perhaps were
not as willing to uh, youknow, approach the white supremacists. For
(13:33):
example, one of the local newsorganizations asked to use our images, photos
that I had taken and photos andimages that my photographer had taken, because
you know, their young journalists havebeen too intimidated to take photos of the
white supremacists. So that there isno doubt that, you know, we
(13:54):
were committed to the story from dayone. We broke all the big stories
just because it was the right thingto do. What's next for you in
terms of the things that you're lookingout for when it comes to the Nashville
community. Are you going to betaking a cue from your colleague Orray Johnson
(14:16):
by doing some stand up or areyou going to just be really focused on
some of the serious issues which you'vegotten some national attention for. Yeah,
I don't think stand up in myfuture. My focus in the last couple
of years especially, has been verymuch democracy forward, focusing on how our
(14:39):
government works, how it doesn't work. And I think the lesson that I
have learned from this experience in Franklinis the loudest voices may not represent the
voice of the people. And thatgives me hope that you know, yes,
there are going to be voices,you know, like I'm currently enduring
(15:01):
on another story that are loud,that are threatening, but those loud voices
do not necessarily represent the people thatwe serve. It's really been a pleasure
speaking with you, and I lovethat final comment. Phil Williams, chief
investigated reporter at news Channel five inNational, thank you so much for being
(15:24):
my guest today on the podcast.Absolutely and if you would like to watch
News Channel five online, it's easyto do so. Just go to news
Channel number five dot com and watchany newscasts live and on demand on that
website brought to you by the eW Scripts Company. With that, we
want to thank you for listening tothis radio and television business report and Focus
(15:46):
podcast presented by dot fm, streamingsocial podcast or broadcast. Get a dot
fm domain ame by heading over toget dot fm today from the headquarters of
Streamline Publishing and Boca Raton, Florida, home of the Radio and Television Business
Report and co owned magazine Radio Inc. I'm Adam R. Jacobson for the
(16:06):
In Focused podcast. Have a greatday. We'll see you next time.
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