January 17, 2024 • 64 mins
Have you ever found yourself caught in the relentless grip of lust, mistaking it for love? Pastor Dwight Buckner Jr joins us in an impassioned discussion, unraveling the confusion between these consuming forces and offering a beacon of hope for those yearning to break free from destructive cycles. In a raw and riveting journey into our deepest connections, we confront the shadows of our desires, and together, we chart a course toward healing and self-discovery.
Our candid conversation cuts through the noise of social media's false reflections of worth, spotlighting the holiday season's trials as we navigate the murky waters of loneliness and self-love. Listen as we share our personal stories of love, loss, and the hard-earned wisdom that arises from setting boundaries and honoring ourselves. Our guest, Pastor Dwight, lends his profound insights, shaping a narrative that promises to enlighten and transform the way you approach relationships and self-worth.
With tales of resilience, we delve into the complex tapestry of our beliefs and experiences, discussing how they shape our quests for intimacy and faithfulness. From Joshua's honest revelations about marriage and monogamy to the broader challenges of leadership in the face of temptation, this episode is an invitation to join a community seeking truth and integrity. Tune in for a powerful exploration of love, lust, and the enduring human spirit, all stitched together with a prayer for the strength to become our best selves.
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Opposing experiences, a single woman and a married man, Chanel Scott, and Josh Powell, create a powerful and empathetic team, offering valuable insights and advice on navigating the complexities of romantic relationships and promoting healthier, more fulfilling connections.
Join Chanel and Josh as they unlock the secrets of successful relationships one conversation at a time.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
I'm Chanel Scott, the queen of relationship talk.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
I'm Josh Powell, two-time NBA champion.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
I've journeyed from trauma to healing.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
From the NBA to family, I've learned what really
matters.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
We've come together to unlock the secrets of
successful relationships.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
One conversation at a time.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
One conversation at a time.
Welcome to Relationships Matter, the podcast.
My name is Chanel Scott.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
I'm Josh Powell.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
And guys, we have an amazing episode for you guys
today.
We have a special guest, PastorDwight Buckner.
We are so excited to have you.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
Hey man, I'm honored to be here.
Thank you guys for having me.
And congratulations to both ofyou in this wonderful podcast
and success.
Honored to be here.
Honored to be here.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
We're excited to have you, sir, absolutely.
We're going to be talking aboutyour latest book, breaking the
Cycles of Lust, and there's somuch in that we're going to have
you break it down for us today.
So, before I start asking you amillion questions, talk a
little bit about the book.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
Well, the book is really based off of personal
experience.
I have been one that have dealtwith lust in the past and I
learned that through that, thatlust did not start with me.
Most of it is transgenerational.
It's in the family, some thingsthat we have picked up just
naturally because someone in thefamily has struggled with it,
(01:33):
and so I really begin to wrestlearound the fact of where did
this come from?
Is it just me?
Is it, is it someone else inthe bloodline that dealt with
these issues?
And how do I overcome it?
Because if not maintained oreliminated, you'll destroy your
entire life.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
So when you say, struggle with it, do you?
Can you describe some of theexamples Right?
Could that?
Could that mean like youwitnessed it?
Could that mean that somethingmay have happened to somebody in
their childhood Like can youexpound upon?
Speaker 3 (02:07):
Yeah, I think if that's a very broad question,
I'm glad you asked it.
I think lust is a point where,if I've struggled with it, then
did somebody do something to methat I see, something that's
visual.
A lot of people that havestruggled with lust come to find
(02:28):
out there's somebody in theirfamily that dealt with it.
They had this naturalattraction for something that
they couldn't let it go.
And lust is not just sexuallust, it could be material lust,
and so, with that being said,for me my experience, josh, was
that I found out at an early agethat there were things that I
(02:49):
was drawn to.
My issue I'm going to be honestwith you, if I start bastering
my issue was women, and so Ifound out I said well, lord, why
do I feel a need to have todate different people?
Why is it that I feel a need toalways have to want to be with
somebody?
And it wasn't, it wasn'tnatural.
It wasn't natural, and so I hadto really begin to deal with
(03:11):
the root of lust and found outthere was somebody in my family
that dealt with the same thingwe love the Lord, or spiritual,
but there's also with every,with every family.
In it there's there's strengthsand there's weaknesses, and so
the weakness that's in my familywas lust, and so I began to
really be to deal with thiswhole notion of why do we
struggle with this.
Can we be free from this?
(03:34):
Can we break this cycle so thatit doesn't pass down to my kids
and then my children's children?
Speaker 1 (03:40):
I have a two part question.
So you said it's not naturaland I want to know how did you
distinguish that?
And then I also want you totalk about what is the
difference between lust and love.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
Well, I think our greatest example of love is in
First Corinthians, wherescripture Paul says that love is
patient.
Love is kind.
It keeps no record of wrong.
Love is more of a.
It's a covenant.
You keep your side of thecovenant, I keep my side of the
covenant.
I give you give.
Lust is more contractional.
It's it's I want something fromyou.
(04:15):
Uh, and and and vice versa.
And the thing about lust isthat it doesn't necessarily have
to be with the same person.
Uh.
Lust says well, if you don'tgive it to me, I'm going to get
it from somewhere else.
Uh, or I'm going to go to thisperson who will give it to me.
Lust can never be satisfied.
So it's a distinct differencebetween love and lust, because
(04:36):
love says I'm with you throughthe thick and thin, I don't just
want something from you, but infact I'm putting in the same
effort that you're putting inwhere it is together.
Lust says I'm going to get whatI want.
I'm gone, see you later, wow.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
So how did you again decipher that?
This is not natural Like this.
The way that I'm currentlyoperating is not natural Like
what was some of the.
I want you to articulate someof the, the signs, what was
actually happening, so peoplecan identify when they are
actually cause.
A lot of times people don'tknow the difference, right, I
think, when you're when you'rethe difference.
Speaker 3 (05:14):
When you're drawn away by lust, you can literally
be at work and something that'sattractive to you or lustful to
you can cause you to completelyneglect your actual assignment
at work, Go home or leave whereyou are and go after the thing
that you're lusting for.
One of the greatest exampleswas, was, was, was David.
(05:35):
He was God's chosen vessel.
God's chosen vessel soldierloved the Lord.
He was home from battle and heshould have been at war, but
instead of being at battle, heallowed lust to keep him in a
place of safety, Excuse me, aplace of where the enemy could
come in and destroy him.
He sees Bathsheba.
She's bathing, but he was neversupposed to be at home.
(05:57):
He was supposed to be on thebattlefield.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
He's out of position, yeah.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
But lust drove him home to a place where he knew he
can get it.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
Can lust and desire be separate, or are they want to
decide?
Speaker 3 (06:10):
I think there's.
There's a difference in havinga lustful desire and a healthy
desire.
Okay, I can have a desire towant to sleep with you and I'm
not married to you or I'm not incovenant with you.
That's a lustful desire.
Or I can have a desire to wantto do better in life to love.
So there's a distinctdifference.
(06:32):
Now, when we talk about thedesires of the flesh, those are
desires that I would assume areevil, desires that could
potentially destroy ourspiritual being, and so, um,
yeah, it's a desire, but it'sit's it's unhealthy desire.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
Do you think anything about the behavior can be
natural, Cause I know you saidis is not natural.
Were you speaking for?
Speaker 3 (06:57):
you or were you?
Speaker 2 (06:57):
speaking.
Speaker 3 (06:58):
What I, what I say, not natural, of course, if
you're married, there are thingsthat both of you can share.
The bedroom is is undefiled.
There's a natural desire therefor each other.
When I say that lust isunnatural, I'm speaking in terms
of it's unnatural for you tospend four hours on a computer,
(07:20):
uh, looking at porn.
That's unnatural, uh, it's it'sunnatural for you to sleep with
six different people the sameweek that that's unnatural, uh,
that that is.
That is something that needs tobe contained, something that
you really have to deal with, um, and there are people that
actually think that it's okay,uh, that it's natural, but it's
(07:41):
not what, what?
What it really speaks to is?
It speaks to love, deprivation.
It speaks to the fact that I'msuffering from something that I
never got.
Since I never got it, maybethese different individuals or
this site can fulfill a voidthat was never filled in my life
, which it doesn't, because lustcannot be satisfied.
(08:03):
So, when we talk about lust,some people are drawn away by
lust, because they're reallylonging for a hug, they're
really longing for somebody totell them that they'll be okay,
they're really long for somebodyto give them, you know,
inspiration and hope andencouragement.
But because some people haven'tever got that.
(08:23):
They'll seek for lust, which isa smoke screen.
Lust will send you down adirection you should not go, but
when you, when you're led bylust, it's really saying what do
you really want?
What?
What are you really longing for?
Because this individual is notit.
So, evidently, had you got whatyou needed, maybe these
proclivities and and and thesedesires wouldn't be there like
(08:48):
that, Right.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
What do you feel, cause you deal with people often
on a daily right, what do youfeel is the most consistent void
that people are trying to fill?
Because a lot of times, right,we watch social media.
We talked to our friends, ourfamily, and you've already
(09:10):
touched on it Like we normalizea lot of things.
So I'm asking for somebody,cause I'm sure somebody just can
hit home for somebody, like youknow, that may not look at that
void as a void.
They might think that that'ssomething that's completely
natural and normal.
So, with the work that you'redoing, you know, um, what do you
(09:31):
feel will probably be one ofthe top two or three boys that
people are trying to fill?
Speaker 3 (09:38):
Um, well, I think one void they're trying to feel is
love, Love, Um, there is a lackof love that people have
received, Right, and if I grewup in a household and my mother
never told me she loved me andmy father wasn't there, I'm
seeking into different avenuesto get something that I never
(10:02):
got.
So love is one.
Another one is hope.
Um, there are just some peoplethat are just completely lost.
Uh, they need to be inspiredand they need to be told that
you can make it, that you aregreat.
They weren't told these thingsgrowing up.
So if that was the case, ifthey weren't told these things
growing up, then they're goingto look in a place that may be
(10:23):
unhealthy, as long as they feellike I'm getting something that
I've been longing for.
Um.
The third one I would say is issecurity.
People are looking for securityand and and.
If they never got security of,or if they never knew who they
were, then what happens is thatthey allow their insecurities to
(10:46):
run them into environments andinto circles that they should
not be into.
Um, social media is a greattool if you're doing um outreach
or promoting or marketingthings of that nature.
We love social media, but alsocan be very detrimental to your
mental and your health.
Because, Absolutely, you findyourself comparing followers and
(11:09):
lifestyles and somebody standsin front of a Rolls Royce and
you're borderline depressedbecause you drive in a Honda and
you're basing that off of apicture, a picture Uh and, and
so um, um, we have to look inhealthy areas in terms of what
we use as our motivation and notjust a screen to say this is my
(11:32):
life.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
No, absolutely, and when we get back faster.
I want to uh, open up theconversation a little bit more
in regards to why people confuselove with lust.
Yes, when we get back,relationships matter to podcast.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
So we're talking about the difference between
lust and love and I want to sayI think I want to ask a question
or make a statement becausejust through our conversation it
takes me back to some of thesedysfunctional relationships that
we see, even for myself I'vebeen a part of in the past,
where we actually think that welove an individual when in fact
(12:18):
it's lust, especially when itturns toxic and dysfunctional
and you still stay.
So then there's that really loveit can be.
It has to be lust, right?
So that's like a aha moment,like wow, I thought I love this
person when I was really lustingat the something that maybe I
was void of.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
Yeah, I would say into all of our listeners um,
everyone that hugs and kissesyou doesn't love you.
Uh, and I think that's one ofthe greatest mistakes that we
make us thinking that ifsomebody hugs me or kisses me or
we have an intimate connection,that they love me right.
(13:02):
I think that's how a lot ofhearts are broken.
Uh, because we get into stuffassuming that because we've been
intimate together that we havea future together.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
Right.
Speaker 3 (13:13):
And that's not the case, because love, lust, now
goes in to take what it wantsand then it leaves.
And if you're somebody who isdesiring love and relationship
and you're lonely, sometimesyou'll let your standard down
for a bum just to fulfill a void.
(13:37):
You don't even care if theywork, you don't care if they
love the Lord, you don't care ifthey got anything going, but
because you're, you're longingfor love so bad you're willing
to allow lust to be thesubstitute for love.
And so, and so we get intothese very vulnerable spaces
when we're really seeking out alove and relationship, and we'll
(14:03):
be satisfied with somethingtemporal, knowing it's not
forced, but because we don'twant to be lonely, we're like
you know, yeah, you can comeover when you want to come, and
we get off work.
There doesn't have to be anystrings attached.
You get what you want, I getwhat I want.
I just need to know somebody'sthere for me.
And let me say this since we'reentering into holiday season,
folk are going to want to bebooed up.
(14:23):
They're going to be sittingaround the fireplace eating
marshmallows and watchingChristmas movies, but they want
somebody there with them.
And so if we don't have anybodythat will be there with us,
we'll lower our standard.
Go find somebody for the moment, take pictures and post it to
make it look like we're happywhen we're really suffering.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
But you know, something passed to Dwight.
I think a lot of people don'teven know what love is because
they they've never experiencedit, right, um, I think for me
personally, I've learned how tolove myself just by being a
student of the word.
Speaker 3 (15:00):
Come on.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
Like I've never experienced it outside of the
dynamic of my family.
You know what I'm saying.
Like my mother and father, theylove me more than anything and
I know this, right.
But I've never experienced itoutside of that.
And I think, for someone likeme, before I learned how to love
myself through the word, Ididn't know any better, right,
(15:22):
like I just thought that this iswhat it is, yeah.
And times when I've even gottenstuck in certain situations.
Most times I would think, well,I can't see past the situation,
like I don't think there'sanything else out there that's
better, and I got to deal withit with someone, so I might as
well just tolerate it here untilI learned better.
But I only learned that becauseI'm a student of the word.
(15:43):
That was God.
I had nothing to do with thatand he chose to show me and
demonstrate his love toward mein such a special way.
But everybody don't have thatsame experience, yeah.
So, like, how do you even tapinto?
Like, what is love?
How do I even start?
Like, if you don't have thatrelationship, how do you even
start to learn?
(16:04):
How, cause people say you knowyou need to love yourself more,
but you got to make thatpractical Like.
How do I practically learn tolove myself if I've never been
taught how to do it?
Speaker 3 (16:15):
Well, I think it's critical that you understand
that, that nobody can reallymake you happy the way you think
they can.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
Right, that's right.
Speaker 3 (16:24):
I've learned that, and you cannot depend on
somebody to bring you so muchjoy.
You don't need to wait to datesomebody to go to the movies.
Right, take yourself to themovies.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
It would be good to have somebody that looks.
We're not going to diminish,but I understand what you're
saying though.
Speaker 3 (16:45):
But take yourself to the movies, treat yourself to a
massage.
All of that is self care.
You're you're.
You're learning how toeffectively love you.
If you don't know how to loveyou, you cannot love anybody
else adequately.
They did a study years ago inthe earth and the the surface of
(17:10):
the ocean regarding diamonds,and they did a discovery and
found out that if you begin todig really, really low in the
ocean surface, there's aparticular diamond called a blue
diamond, and blue diamonds arediamonds that can absorb heat
and pressure.
They're extremely, extremelyrare and the price tag on them
(17:33):
is is really out of the roofbecause they're rare.
I've come to find out that wehave a lot of blue diamonds out
there that don't know their truevalue.
When you know your value, thenyou'll stop dating people that
have pawn shop mentalities.
There are a lot of people thatthat don't know the cost to have
you.
They don't know the price tohave you, but do you know your
(17:56):
worth?
Do you know your value?
When you begin to look at thatblue diamond and look at
yourself, then you'll begin torealize.
You know what.
I can't settle for this.
I know I am, and it's not acockiness, it's not pride.
It's not you being up, it'sjust you knowing who you are.
And if you know who you are,then you wait on God to bring
the right person.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
I want you to talk about.
How do you know this?
Because, I mean, everybodydon't have that relationship.
I think about when I was inthat space of just deficient, of
the love, of the attention thatI thought I wanted from a man,
and not knowing my value andseeing more value in them than I
saw in myself.
(18:35):
So I would pour into them andthen I would be deficient.
You know what I'm saying?
Because it wasn't reciprocatedand so, like I really wish
somehow somewhere we could talkabout practically outside,
because I was doing all thosethings.
I had no choice, though, as asingle woman.
If you want to go out to eat,you got to take yourself out.
You want to go to the movies,you don't have to do it by
(18:56):
yourself.
So I did those things naturallyright.
But, just learning practicallyhow to just say you know, I
really, because no one's goingto admit that they don't love
themselves.
Like I didn't realize that Ididn't love myself until I
learned to love myself.
And then I realized wow youreally didn't love yourself,
because if you loved yourself,you wouldn't allow someone to
(19:17):
treat you that way.
You know, but again, I'm one ofGod's chosen.
So he took it upon himself tosit me down and teach me,
because I had a natural desire,like I love the word, I have an
affinity toward the word, but Iknow everybody is it that way,
you know.
And so because he gave me that,like I sat under a word and I
(19:41):
just allowed God to pour into meand then, during that process,
he began to give me revelationabout me, who I was.
He stripped me down first ofall Let me see me, the way he
saw me but then he built me backup.
That's a process and that tookyears, you know.
So I just like for the women,because I'm the voice of the
single woman.
I want women to really learnhow to really love themselves,
(20:04):
Because we think we loveourselves.
Until we really learned that welike if you really loved
yourself, you wouldn't allowcertain things.
You just wouldn't.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
Yeah, so before, you answer, though, pastor, and
that's a great point, but I needto piggyback on the flip side
of it, because you know, eventhough we do have to learn right
, there's also that part ofthings, because you talked about
this earlier.
We're talking about lust.
We're talking about lust.
Then learning how to not loveyourself can also be something
(20:33):
that's passed down as well,because when you're watching the
behaviors of mom, dad orwhoever your guardian is, when
you're seeing how your siblingsare treating you or how other
family members or maybe friends,like these are things that you
learn to believe and accept asokay.
Well, we still kicking it.
You know they still around.
(20:54):
Maybe this is what love lookslike.
You know what I'm saying.
Maybe love does come with hurt,and that's supposed to be okay
and acceptable.
You know what I mean.
So I just had to speak to that,because I do think, on the flip
side, so many times, outside ofthe pain or the abuse, or
traumas and stuff like that,like certain things are just
(21:14):
passed down.
So we have to be willing to saystops with me, let me figure
out something, because itdoesn't feel good.
But I just wanted to say thatreal quick, but you got it,
pastor.
Speaker 3 (21:24):
Yeah, I think some of us have seen love from a very
distorted lens and if we seen itfrom a distorted lens growing
up, then we're gonna think it'snaturally healthy.
You might think it's healthy ornatural to be in abusive
relationship because, you sawthat growing up, only to find
out as you get older.
(21:46):
that's not gonna cut it.
But you said something very key, josh.
You said that it stops with me.
I think we all have to make upin our mind that we're not going
to live with our mother orfather's demons, absolutely.
We have to learn how to cutthat off at the root, because
some things we've inheritednaturally and we do it naturally
(22:08):
because we've seen it growingup.
But it stops with us.
You have to say to yourself I'mgonna be the last generation to
die broke.
I'm gonna be the lastgeneration to sleep with
multiple people.
I'm gonna be the lastgeneration to go through divorce
.
My family divorce runs in myfamily.
So I had to make a veryconscious decision.
(22:31):
When I got married, I said youknow what?
Whatever happens, we're gonnastrive to stay together.
I want the curse to be brokenwith me.
My mother and father weremarried for 17 years and then
they divorced after 17.
But I have to be the one to sayyou know what?
No, we're gonna stay togetherbecause I don't want that curse
(22:54):
to follow my children.
Furthermore, it's more thanjust you.
There are generations andpeople that are looking up to
you as a model to see if you'regonna stay married or if you're
gonna do the right thing, and soit does.
Stop with us.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
Yeah, Absolutely Well .
For one, it's safe to say thatyou do not subscribe to Cuffin
Season, I'm assuming?
Speaker 3 (23:20):
I'll say it like this it depends on the extent of
what that cuffing is.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
Got you, I got you, I just.
But now, when we get back,though, I'd still wanna ask to
be able to distinguish betweenlove and lust, and I also got
another one in the bag, butwe'll answer that one.
He will answer that one.
When we get back toRelationships Matter, the
podcast Relationships.
Speaker 1 (23:47):
Matter.
Welcome back to RelationshipsMatter, the podcast.
So before we get back into thishot topic of lust and love, I
wanna encourage you all to like,share and subscribe on all
major streaming platforms.
So before we went to break Josh, you were stating to Pastor
Dwight that you had a question.
Go ahead and ask your question.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
So it's a two-part question and for one to help
people recognize that there is alarge difference between love
and lust.
So I want you to break thatdown and where I'm going with it
, cause I know we spoke about ita little bit during the break,
but a lot of people are basingrelationship on the outer Right.
(24:31):
You got this attractive man,you got this beautiful woman.
They're coming together, butthey're basing the relationship,
the connection, communication,their whole foundation is
strictly on the fact that I havethis attractive man at home and
I got this beautiful woman athome, which also leads to people
wanting to have babies firstprior to making a serious
(24:55):
commitment.
So I know that's anotherconversation in itself, but I
just think that we should breakthat down some more because it's
giving people false hope in therelationship space, because
their focus is off from thebeginning and then, when that
part dies and we're wonderingwhy so many breakups, so many
(25:17):
single parent households and thecommunities are lacking, it's
because we're not focusing onthe other parts to the person.
Speaker 3 (25:26):
So Well, I think it's a great question.
I think it's critical to saythis is that, first of all,
demons are not ugly.
That is, we have to addressthat Demons are not ugly.
(25:50):
So that's how.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
Hey, can we get a, sir Quincy?
Hey, Quincy, we need a.
We gotta put that one on a sir.
Speaker 3 (25:59):
Oh my God, demons are not ugly.
That's good.
That's good.
Most of the people, some of thecraziest people that I ever got
hooked up with, were beautiful.
The problem was is that Iwanted a long term relationship
with somebody who I had justsolely based the outer
(26:21):
culturements of.
But demons are beautiful, andso the devil's never gonna send
you something that you don'twant.
That's the first thing.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
So he can bless you too.
Huh, the devil can bless youtoo.
In a negative way.
Speaker 3 (26:35):
There you go, he's gonna send you something and
it's very temporal.
He's gonna send you somethingthat you want Hips, complexion,
hair, muscles, abs, whatever youwant He'll send it to you.
You don't normally find outthat it's, that it's a demon,
until you spent some time withit, till you find out you know
(26:56):
what.
We take good pictures together,we've got intimacy, but you're
abusive.
Or or you don't want anythingout of life, or you're
controlling and and a lot of usthink that we found love
Visually before we actually,before we actually find out that
it was lust.
(27:16):
Let me, let me say this to youthe worst thing you can do is
Get hooked up with somebody andhave beautiful babies with them,
a beautiful looking family, butyou want to separate from them
because you realize I did notreally fully unravel or discover
their mental, their genealogy.
(27:40):
Where they came from, withtheir family history, is what
they deal with.
That's the whole purpose ofmarriage counseling is I don't
listen.
You can be cute all you want,but if you can't pay bills, then
we don't have a future.
You can be nice looking, but ifyou don't want to do some very
fundamental basic things, thenthis thing is not gonna work.
(28:01):
And I think a major challengeis that we've hooked up with
some people that look reallygood but there's no substance
there, there's no future there,and most people that that that
that you hook, that you havehooked up with that you finally
have no substance.
They know they ain't got nosubstance.
They have a history of hookingup with people or choosing
(28:24):
people like you because theyknow that that they're gonna
live off of you.
Mm-hmm, and let me say this toyou as well In looking for mate,
you should always lookspiritually first for the mate.
If I get into an accident, Idon't care how cute you are.
I Want to know if you can prayfor me while I'm in ICU, while
(28:49):
I'm in the hospital.
I want to know that you'regoing to do homework with the
kids.
You know that you're gonna helpmove the family forward.
And so the Bible says I believeit's Proverbs that charm is
deceptive, beauty is fleeting,but a woman who fears the Lord
is to be praised.
(29:10):
What that scripture is implyingis that you cannot allow what
you see on the outward tocontrol your future.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
The fear the Lord is the substantial and the
substance of the thing that Ikeep it going Some people don't
realize it and you can pick itback off of this, but I feel
that for some, lust is forever.
Hmm, because a lot of peopleright, if the sex or chemistry
is that good, mm-hmm, then theywill bypass the other toxic
(29:43):
behaviors only for a certainamount of time.
Yeah, yeah, there are somepeople I can think of personally
, Because you also look at itfrom the standpoint to a like we
don't divorce over here.
You know what I mean but they,then they dip in.
They might be different, right,but but.
But what I'm sharing is Peoplestill will be caught up in this
(30:06):
cycle and it's it's ongoing andit could be based on the look,
the Attraction, that, excuse me,the attraction.
It could be based on thechemistry, it could based on
different things, but they'renot doing any of the other work.
You know what I'm saying and II just know that.
I've had personal conversationsPutting that out there.
(30:29):
Like there's got to be more.
You know what I mean.
Like when you talk aboutsubstance, and All you got to
bring to the table is how youlook a good smile, a nice body
and you feel like that's enoughBecause that's what you're used
to.
A lot of people are used tothat.
Just like a man with money, ifthat's all he got to bring to
(30:51):
the table, he feel like that'swhat works.
And it's sad because we talkabout lust from a sexual but we
also spoke about this too butFrom a financial standpoint,
there are women who are stayingwith men who have money and
they're they're good with that,they're gonna be okay with.
Just like I'll settle with thefact that I got this nice house.
(31:12):
I can do what I want, I don'thave to work this down, the
third, but they dying inside,yeah and that, to me, I think,
is more so what someone has seengrowing up.
Speaker 3 (31:24):
You've seen somebody that was Living that same type
of lifestyle or behavior, andthat's all you may know, or
that's all you've seen growingup.
The worst thing you can do isstay with somebody Because of
the money, because once they drythe money up, then what does
that leave you?
And so this is why you do haveto have your own, you do have to
(31:44):
work, you do have to strive tobe the best you can be and,
truthfully, the the foundationof a healthy relationship is two
people coming together, bothwant to work towards something.
You may not even have nothing,both of you, but if you you're
willing to work towardssomething and you both give a
hundred percent, then that itturned out to be wonderful.
The challenge is now,especially in our generation, is
(32:06):
that we want everything to bemicrowave.
You know we don't want to workfor nothing.
You know we want, we wantsomebody who makes Six figures
and we don't even have a job, wedon't even care to get a job
because we're looking for thesehandouts.
But that's not reality andthat's not going to.
That's not sustainable.
But what is sustainable is thefact that you can bring
(32:28):
something to the table.
It may not be as much as moneywhich somebody else, who, who,
who is willing to work with you.
I remember years ago, many, manyyears ago, way before I got
married, you know, I datedsomeone that was financially
well off.
I mean, they were rolling andand For me I was saying, you
(32:49):
know this, for me I was sayingthis could never work because
I'm just not at a stage in mylife where I could properly
receive, and I want to grow tothe place where I could be able
to Contribute as much, and thatthat was for me then.
So I would have rather Datasomebody that was more so on my
level, financially just starting, just growing, as opposed to
(33:11):
somebody who was already up here.
Now they weren't condescendingor nothing like that.
But what I'm saying is thatthere's something about having
somebody that's kind of whereyou are, where you both have
goals and vision and aspiration,strategy and plan to work
towards something successful.
Speaker 1 (33:27):
I've noticed that even in the area of professional
athletes.
I've noticed that you see thesemen, they make a lot of money,
they have these beautiful womenwhen they're in the league and
the moment they retire, you seesuch as getting divorced or
something on social media wherethey're not together, yeah, or
somebody leaving such and such.
Yeah you know what I'm saying.
So it does come to an end.
(33:49):
Or even you mature, or, like wehad, steven, you know, and he
talked about his now wife asopposed to how things were
before, because you grow up andyou see people for who they
really are.
Speaker 3 (34:01):
Yeah, you know.
Yeah, and to answer that,chanel, I used to feel really
bad In my college years becauseSome of the women that I was
attracted to weren't attractedto me because they wanted the
athletes.
You know, they was like youknow, I'm getting with the
athlete because some of theirmind was I'm gonna be a
millionaire.
(34:22):
And it was one lady inparticular, she, that I was
interested in and shedeliberately ran after an
athlete and and years laterdidn't work out.
They got injured.
And Then she comes back tryingto, you know, talk to me and
says well, I should have wentwith you.
You end up, you know, goinginto ministry and I'm like no,
you were just looking for youknow, you know, and and I even
(34:47):
think that there are someathletes that know when
somebody's with them, Becauseyou know incident.
Speaker 2 (34:55):
We get back relationships matter.
Speaker 1 (35:04):
Welcome back to relationships matter the podcast
.
So before we went to break, Iwas asking you, joshua, when you
were in the league specifically, did you overlook the fact?
When you knew women had thewrong intention?
Like, did you even know?
You know they were just tryingto get with you Because of who
(35:24):
you were, what you had, or werethey genuinely interested in you
?
Speaker 2 (35:30):
I think we would have to ask them.
But respectfully, I mean I wasmarried during my majority of my
tenure, so you know I've donemy due diligence was not the
(35:52):
best husband.
I take ownership for mydecisions and I was a part of a
life.
My belief system is different.
I was raised different.
Some of the things that I stillstruggle with to this day
because my belief system isstill the same.
Speaker 1 (36:11):
What's your belief system?
Speaker 2 (36:13):
I don't believe in monogamy.
Speaker 1 (36:16):
But you practice monogamy.
Speaker 2 (36:18):
I do subscribe to the channel.
Speaker 1 (36:20):
But you don't believe in it.
Speaker 2 (36:22):
Talk about that.
The reason is and I've beenvery open about- this because
I'm spiritually on my journeyand for 38 years I'm 40 now
never met a monogamous man,never met a monogamous woman.
Speaker 1 (36:45):
You met a monogamous woman.
Speaker 2 (36:47):
Never heard, never heard.
Speaker 1 (36:50):
I'm not going to be a monogamous woman.
Speaker 2 (36:53):
But people have put on.
But you know I'll be thinkingthat you be storing something in
your vault, I know.
But we're going to say that one.
But let me get my dog so pastit and go ahead and hit me with
that ducky one time.
But basically, brother, I wasgroomed different.
(37:14):
I was shown different things, adifferent way of life.
My understanding was as long ashome is good, no problems.
That don't come back.
You smooth, we man, we do whatwe do.
I also have a history of sexualabuse, like things that I've
seen in my sexual abuse startedat nine, 10 years old, so we
(37:35):
talking about years, decades ofwhat I felt in Dean was normal.
And then I actually at 36, whatwas the pandemic like?
Three years ago, right beforethat, when we had first started
working on you know what I meanon podcasts and books, whatever.
(37:56):
And I remember I sat in yourdriveway and I had a counselor.
I had a therapy session and forthe first time my therapist
told me she was like.
I'll explain to her some thingsthat happened to me in my
childhood.
She said you know you weresexually abused, right?
Speaker 1 (38:14):
He didn't know it.
Speaker 2 (38:15):
I had no clue, bro.
I sat there for 10 minutes, bro, and I felt, I felt some way.
I just didn't know what it was,I was feeling, and I didn't say
a word for 10 minutes and shejust looked at me.
She was just like it's okay,you know what I'm saying.
Like, whatever it is that youfeel and like, just try to let
it out.
And I just, I was just confusedin the first thing that I asked
(38:35):
her.
I'm like, but that's how I grewup, that was normal to me.
Like nobody, nobody told me itwas bad to be doing the things
that I was doing when I was ateenager and I was laying up
with women 20 years older thanme.
Nobody told me that that wassomething that wasn't supposed
(38:55):
to, you know, be happening.
I thought that that was normalbecause we all were
participating.
You know what I'm saying.
So it really has shaped me in away that I still like it's
something that I still it'sstill a challenge, I guess I
(39:18):
don't want to say it's astruggle, because, again, I
believe, like I thoroughly feelthat way.
You know what I mean.
But but I do understand that itcomes from something.
I acknowledge that and I'maware of it Right, and on the
other side, I feel like itbecame something that, because
that was my normal, it's like Ilike it, even though I
understand, okay, this behaviorhappened when it happened.
(39:40):
But I get to this also a partof why I feel the way that I
feel too.
Speaker 3 (39:47):
Yeah, and I think a large part of that too, josh, is
because the enemy loves toattack your innocence.
And so if he can come in, evenat the age you were, and begin
to manipulate, or use people tomanipulate, to get you to think
that this is okay behavior andyou should this, this was
(40:08):
natural, then he uses it as atool to try to get you to think
that, hey, everything I've donewas right, everything that I got
into was okay, when in allreality, they may not have been
okay, and so what I?
But when I heard you talking,um, I really heard the Lord
saying that there's some, somehealing that is even taking
(40:31):
place.
And even as you get older,you'll find yourself being
loosened from some of theselayers that were thrown on you,
things that were not okay, and Ieven see an inward healing
happening there.
And I know you just, you justwrote a book, but there's
another book that's going to becoming and some more
transparency that would beshared from that book.
(40:51):
But there's going to be ahealing that takes place from
some of the stuff that you, thatyou have gone through.
Um, you're coming to a place nowin your life where you're
finally becoming more settled.
You know, um, I'm selling in.
Yeah, there's some things youstill think are right on that,
but you're starting to become alittle more settled and starting
to realize, hey, maybe maybethat was not right, maybe maybe
(41:15):
the wrong person was in my ear,maybe the wrong people were
around me, but there's, there'sa healing taking place there and
and you're not where you usedto be, even probably mentally
with that, but, um, yeah, I cansee the maturity in how you've
you're started to grow from whatwas to where you are now.
So, kudos to you and even thegrowth that that's taken place
(41:36):
in your life and you evenrecognizing, in your previous
marriage, hey, there were somethings I did wrong, I messed up,
but so you've acknowledged thatthere was some, some immature
things that I've done.
So that's the first step tohealing.
Speaker 2 (41:50):
So I I appreciate that I do want to add a little
bit more to that, because for me, I feel like I'm acknowledging
that I heard a person that Ithat I took a vow to right, yes,
but I, because I didn't knowhow to communicate properly
where I was at that time.
Right, I'm trying to be on whatsomeone else wants me to be on,
(42:19):
and it it was a painful process.
Speaker 3 (42:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:26):
You know, and there are other things that I could
say but just for me to takeownership for me, like that's
why I say like that was, thatwas hurtful.
Speaker 3 (42:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:37):
I do want to ask you though you know because you're,
you know you're, you're marriedand even from the standpoint of
you know, being a pastor, likethere, it's like a different
level of you know how peopleview you, how you're supposed to
move, but you're still a man atthe end of the day.
So what, what did that looklike for you in your healing and
(42:58):
for you to be able to overcomethat feeling?
Because you said it wassomething that you had dealt
with early on in theconversation.
So I think it's important forpeople to understand that.
Speaker 3 (43:08):
Yes, great question.
Now.
I've never, of course, beenabused any of that thing, but
I've dealt with, you know, lustat different levels of my life,
at any younger age.
God uses imperfect people, andso I had to realize that I'm
(43:29):
qualified to be someone's pastorbased on my experience and what
I've been through, and we needmore pastors and leaders that
will be more transparent.
Um, I'm not speaking to peopleevery Sunday and every week
because I'm perfect.
I'm speaking to you becauseI've I've been through some
things and God's allowed me tobe a vessel to share, um my
(43:52):
transparency and what I've beenthrough and how it could help
somebody else overcome Um truthof the matter is, if there's a,
if a lot more leaders or pastorswould be more transparent, then
more people would get free.
Um, um, it's hard, uh, to be inthis position and to act like
everything is always okay.
(44:14):
Yeah, um, folk need to knowwhat you've been through.
They need to know your history.
Um, and so, even with this book, writing this book, um, a close
friend of mine inspired me towrite it years ago because he
knew that was my struggle.
You know, he knew what I wentthrough, and so what better way
than to help other people withthat.
Um, and so, yeah, we need to betransparent and we need to
(44:34):
share what we've been through.
Speaker 2 (44:36):
Mm, hmm, Now that that was beautifully put and I
think that you know too, when wecome back.
I know one of the other becauseI have so many questions, but I
think for people to understand,like when you're a person of
faith, no matter what your walkis, you know for for people to
understand like we're stillhuman and we're we're on this
(44:56):
earth because we are sent.
Yes, you know what I'm sayingand because of the things that
we did do right, and justbecause we choose whatever our
calling is that that doesn'ttake away from the work that
needs to be done right as we'regoing after, whatever that
purpose may be.
So you know, I just want you tospeak to that when we get back.
(45:17):
But relationships matter.
The podcast past are going tobless us when we get back after
this break.
Speaker 1 (45:28):
Welcome back to relationships matter, the
podcast.
So, Josh, I want to talk to youabout your journey today,
because you said that you knowyou still not necessarily
struggle, but you have a beliefsystem, but you subscribe to a
different channel of monogamy.
So talk a little bit about thatjourney.
Speaker 2 (45:47):
I think for me the best way to put it is just
understanding that.
You know pastor talked about itfirst and any and all things
that we do.
You know it's important tostart spiritually you know
that'd be the root and thefoundation.
So, regardless of how Ipersonally feel, there's
instruction, there's somethingthat's written, is there for us
to see and for us to follow, andI try my best to make every
(46:12):
effort in doing so.
You know, now that's the hardpart because, again, you know,
my flesh may take over from timeto time, but I really do give
it the best effort that I canbecause I'm understanding that
you know, one of my main goalsis to make it back to the
kingdom and I got to make surethat.
(46:32):
You know, my resume looks asgood as possible when it's my
time.
So that is what I choose overeverything else.
But I do know that I've grown,because it used to be a lot of
action behind the words andeverything else or the thoughts,
(46:55):
and now I can at least freeze.
You know what I mean To be like.
Nah, let me pump the brakes alittle bit.
But you know, and the otherthing that's important to is
just having transparentconversations at home, and it's
not easy, you know.
Like you know, pastor, youtalked about it.
(47:15):
I know me and Chanel have somany conversations, whether on
camera or off, and it's justimportant that we do share,
because then how could you knowhow to deal with me as a friend
or how could you know how todeal with me as a friend if you
don't know?
Yeah, so that's why, for me, Itry to be not scripted, because
(47:36):
we got a lot of people who haveplatforms but they still keep a
distance up, and I know painwhen I see it.
I know people that are doingwhat they're doing when I see it
, and I try to be an example ofsomething else, and I mean this
conversation has just has reallybeen a blessing just in talking
(47:58):
about these different things,and I appreciate you for asking
me.
You know I definitely want toget your take on.
You know what that processlooks like, because I know I'm
not the only man struggling.
You know I don't want to saystruggle I know I'm not the only
man that's going through that,whether you see it as a struggle
or whether you see it as achallenge or however that looks,
but I just, I just want to askyou like what, what is you know?
(48:22):
I mean, what does that looklike?
I'm going to, I probably answerit like this.
Speaker 3 (48:27):
I think the greatest and I'm going to say something a
little might be a littlecontroversial, but, um, and
talking about lust in terms ofwanting to be successful and be
great and not allow lust to tobe successful and not allow lust
to to ruin your life um,especially with me being a
(48:51):
pastor and leading people and Iwant to speak to other leaders
that are in leadership andleading you know hundreds of
people Um, I think one of thegreatest challenges is to keep
your draws up.
Keep your draws up.
I had a, I had a best friend.
(49:13):
He says, man, you can dowhatever you need to do in life.
Keep your draws up.
Make sure that you're not beingenticed and, in certain rooms
where you're tempted to bevulnerable, to give yourself
away and I think we live in asociety that promotes give
yourself away to anybody, justtake it off.
(49:35):
I do Bible studies on Instagram,tiktok, facebook, and I noticed
that you know it's easy to goviral taking your clothes off.
Anybody can get a million viewstaking your clothes off, but
can you keep them on?
And so I think one of thechallenges is self-control.
Um, when I think about myministry, I think about
(49:56):
pastoring, I think about people.
I realized the.
I know the only way to destroyit is to be enticed and to do
something outside of my marriageand it'd go downhill.
So my prayer consistently isLord, keep me.
I'm not perfect, and anybodythat's on a platform with major
(50:17):
people uh, that that that wouldsay it's easy is is wrong.
They, they have to be soundedand grounded with God and have
make a conscious decision thatmy character is more important
than anything.
At the end of the day, josh,when they say ashes to ashes,
dust to dust, they're not goingto remember my great sermons or
(50:39):
sermons I preached.
You know what they're going toremember.
They're going to think about mycharacter and they're going to
say did he live a life that wasexemplary or did he live a life
that lined up with his public,his private?
Did his private life line upwith his public life?
Speaker 2 (50:54):
To your point.
Can you just speak on realquick If you you have the chance
to let you know any viewerthat's watching this?
Um, you know members of yourchurch that's watching this.
Just share, whether it's fromyour perspective or things that
you know as a whole, what is thehardest thing about being a
(51:15):
pastor or person that's inleadership?
Because, again, people havethis idea right Of what it looks
like or what you all go throughand sometimes you know more
times than none they have noidea.
Speaker 3 (51:29):
Well, actually, one of the hardest things about
being in leadership is wantingmore for people than than than
than what they want forthemselves.
Um, there are a lot of peoplethat I come into contact with
that I want to see grow andmature.
Um, but they some have assumedthat they've already arrived and
are willing to be discipled,and I will.
It have been groomed.
So to want to see somebody orto see somebody doing better,
(51:52):
but them not wanting to dobetter is a challenge.
The other challenge is is issurrounding the people that are
surrounding yourself with peoplewho will actually support you.
Um, I pastor in Atlanta.
Uh, there, there are pastorshere that are great pastors, but
it's a very territorial city,and so one of the main
(52:16):
challenges is is getting thesupport of other pastors and
growing together and this allget together and do a work for
God, for the kingdom, butbecause there are so many
leaders that are so gun-hole onhaving their people, their
section or their followers, it'shard to collaborate.
Is that God's will that?
No, I have separation anddivision between leaders.
(52:38):
No, that's not God's will.
Speaker 2 (52:41):
That's why I stay Go ahead.
Speaker 3 (52:43):
I said I'm glad you speak.
That's why I I I stay them out.
You know I stay in my lane andI do what I do and you know I'm
just here.
You know I'm here.
People need me.
Yeah, I decided a long time ago, josh and and just ministry,
that, um, I'm not going to waitfor nobody to give me no
platform.
Um, I'll use my phone and thecamera on my phone and I'll
(53:07):
speak to hundreds and thousandsof people a day to encourage
them.
I'm not waiting for nobody tobring me in.
People need hope, they needencouragement and they cannot
wait for a conference for hope.
They need it daily.
Yeah, Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (53:22):
What can we do better on our walk?
Speaker 3 (53:26):
Put God, keep, continue to put God first.
Uh, put you last and put Godfirst.
Speaker 1 (53:31):
I want to.
Before we end this conversation, we still need to break it down
.
How do you break free from lust?
Speaker 3 (53:38):
You have to ask God to literally deliver you from
some of the soul ties thatyou've connected over the years.
I think one of the greatestmistakes is, as some of us say,
we're prepared for marriage, butwhen we get married we're still
seeing our spouse through thelenses of somebody else we slept
with.
So it's imperative that we askGod to break us from every,
(54:00):
every physical attraction we had, every physical encounter we
had with somebody that we stillcarry around Um, um.
Because if that not be, if, ifyou don't do that, then then the
new partner or somebody thatGod sends you, you'll be doing
them a disservice because you'llbe wanting them to be like
somebody else.
And it's really demons.
(54:21):
It's, it's, it's, the root ofit is demons.
Those are multiple demons inyou.
I remember, um uh, years agowhen I, when I struggled with it
years ago, before I got married, um, after I slept with
somebody.
You might think I'm crazy.
After I slept with somebody, Iwould literally go into my
closet and pray and ask God todeliver me from what I just did.
(54:44):
Immediately, I wouldn't evenlet it be, I wouldn't even get
24 hours soon as they left.
But I'll be in my closet.
God forgive me Cause I didn'twant I.
I I was involved in that act,but I did not want to carry
around their spirit.
Speaker 2 (54:57):
Did you ever say God, forgive me, like me at stroke,
though?
Speaker 1 (55:01):
Huh, you.
Speaker 3 (55:04):
I'll see you later.
I said all of it, god forgiveme All the and oftentimes when I
did it they were in anotherroom.
Speaker 2 (55:13):
They went out of the room.
Yeah, there were another room.
I think that's real, though.
Like, listen, that's thekeeping it a buck.
You know, I'll just, I'll, just, I'll, just, I'll, just, I'll
just, I'll just, I'll just, I'lljust, I'll just, I'll just.
Speaker 3 (55:23):
I didn't want to know .
That's exactly what I wassaying.
Speaker 2 (55:25):
Listen, I know, for me there's been a time I'm like
bruh, like being a middle and bethinking like man, what, what,
what are you doing?
So that that's why I asked Iwasn't like trying to be like
disrespectful, I mean, I justreally like, because you know
it's something that you didn'tstop, though, when you thought,
that did you.
Speaker 3 (55:47):
For me because it seemed like I need to intervene
here For me.
For me, I stopped playing withmy life when I realized that I
could not be 100% for God and100% for the devil.
When I lifted my hands inchurch, I knew that when I
(56:10):
lifted my hands to God, I didn'twant anybody looking at me that
I slept with saying he's fake.
Wow, I don't want thattestimony.
Speaker 1 (56:19):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (56:20):
Pastor, that's amazing.
Go ahead.
Speaker 1 (56:22):
Before we end.
I did want to ask you becausewe were talking about this whole
demonic thing, the multipledating.
Can you do you have any insighton that whole?
Speaker 3 (56:34):
I don't think there's anything wrong with dating
multiple people, but it needs tobe time in between.
Okay, you cannot date somebodythis month and date them for six
months and then you get rightout of that into something else.
There should be some intervals,some time to heal from what you
just experienced to where youfeel healthy enough to get into
something else.
When you date people, multiplepeople, consecutively, back to
(56:58):
back, back to back, your spiritis now cluttered so you don't
even know what you want.
And then you started to buildup a reputation.
People started saying I wasjust with him or her last week,
so you don't want to do thateither.
But to be delivered from that,you have to say Lord, prepare me
If this is something you want.
A lot of, a lot of dating we do.
God doesn't want you in, butbecause we're lonely, we get
(57:20):
into it to satisfy temporal need.
Might just be for the holidaysI was with you, but as soon as
the holidays are over with, I'mgoing to be done.
I'm looking for a summer flink.
Some people think like that,and so what happens is that we
we get into multiplerelationships because we think
that sooner or later, throughthese multiple relationships,
one of them is the one when,when all reality, none of them
(57:42):
are the one, because if youprayed for God to bring you
something or to prepare theright mate for you, then you
have to wait on God.
God's only going to bless whathe has commissioned.
He's not going to bless whatyou commissioned.
Speaker 1 (57:56):
You may think about something.
Then I saw this video clip,probably about two days ago, and
it literally brought me totears.
It was a young lady, her namewas Brittany Noel, and she
talked about cause I've beenseeking and petitioning God for
(58:16):
a mate for years, right, and shetalked about she went out on a
date with this gentleman.
He was a new person that shemet and she was like he was
everything that she likedHandsome.
The date was wonderful.
And when they went, when theywere preparing to go on the
second date, the date the daybefore, he called her up and
(58:38):
said you know, you're an amazingwoman, but I think I want to
work it out with my ex.
And she was smiling and saidyou know, thank you for your
transparency.
But when she got off the phoneshe was like God, like why would
you allow me to meet him if Ican't have him, you know?
She said why the unnecessarypain?
And she said God had to sit herdown and say I wanted to show
(59:01):
you what you could have accessto if you do the work.
Like right now you're the sameversion of who you were in the
last relationship and that thinglike hit me like a ton of
bricks, like it changedsomething on the inside of me
really and truly, because I canthink of three different times
(59:23):
where I prayed that prayer andsaid God, why would you allow
this?
Why would you allow me toencounter this person if I
couldn't have him?
Why the unnecessary pain, youknow?
And so I wanted to bring thatup during this show because
that's like go ahead.
Speaker 3 (59:42):
Well, I want to say this I think God likes to
surprise us.
I don't think he necessarilywants us to know everything all
the time.
So even if we meet somebodythat we assume perfect for us I
met them, I could see myselfwith them he allows us to make
choice.
(01:00:02):
But then God likes to surpriseyou.
He likes to give you somethingyou never saw coming, something
that was beyond your imagination.
And I say that to say that alot of times, when we deem or we
think somebody is for us orthis could potentially be the
one, it may not be the one.
It may be someone, that God,that you have not seen yet.
(01:00:24):
Last night in Bible study Italked about sometime with faith
.
You can see it, but then youcan't see it.
Sometimes you can be in aseason where you see it coming,
but then you don't see it coming.
What does that mean?
That means that sometimes wecan see things through the
spirit, sometimes we can seethings through the flesh.
Sometimes we do, sometimes wedon't.
(01:00:45):
And in this particular case, allthis is preparation for who
God's getting ready to send foryou.
There is a certain work thatmust take place inside of you
for marriage and for what Godhas for you.
It isn't that you're notbeautiful, it's not that you
don't have the wisdom or thatyou don't possess what it takes
to be a great wife.
(01:01:05):
It's God's making sure thatwhoever gets you knows who they
have.
Vice versa, and whoever hesends to you, they're gonna know
your worth, they're gonna knowyour value and all those other
things.
Furthermore, god knows thetroubles and the problems of the
(01:01:26):
individual who we may havefought was for us Could have
been a great day at Carabas, wecould have enjoyed the movie,
had a nice little night out, butGod saw it down.
In the future, well, thisperson's gonna do this to you.
But yeah, I would just say toeven those that are single, that
are waiting for a mate, let Godprepare you, let him train you
(01:01:49):
for who he's going to send foryou.
If you have a desire to bemarried, then you're gonna be
married, a system at a time.
You don't wanna rush and getinto something for five minutes
and then it'll take you fiveyears to get out of it.
Speaker 1 (01:02:01):
Absolutely.
And the whole reason that mebringing that up is I wanted you
to speak to the weight Cause.
In that weight process youcould do some crazy stuff and
get caught up in some crazysoul-tied entanglements, things
of that nature.
So I wanted you to speak tothat.
But we have come to the end ofour show.
Bishop, lord Jesus, oh yeah,I'll tell you that we have come
(01:02:24):
to the end of our show.
Pastor Dwight, I want you totell people how they can find
your book Breaking the Cycles ofLust.
Speaker 3 (01:02:31):
Breaking the Cycle of Lust.
You can find it at Amazon orBarnes Noble, online in the
store or online.
You can find it there.
It's everywhere on all bookoutlets pretty much.
Speaker 1 (01:02:42):
Absolutely.
And where can people find youon social media?
Cause you said you have Biblestudy on TikTok Instagram.
Speaker 3 (01:02:47):
Yeah, pastor Dwight Buckner Jr.
Instagram.
Pastor Dwight Buckner Jr.
Tiktok Facebook same handle.
All my accounts are verified soyou'll be able to find me,
cause there's some folk that besaying they follow me and
they've been giving away moneyto strangers using my picture.
Wow.
(01:03:07):
So, yeah, make sure it's a bluecheck by the name.
Speaker 2 (01:03:12):
Well, just want to give you some love, brother, and
tell you, man, we appreciateyou For one, just being somebody
that others can look up to.
You know what I mean thecommunity leader.
You know a loving husband.
You know what I mean Somebodythat has principles, morals and
values.
You know what I mean Just beinga great example of successful
(01:03:35):
man, successful businessman andcontinuing to spread the word.
Just want to say thank you forcoming up here sharing your time
.
This could have easily went fortwo hours or maybe even longer.
Just a beautiful conversation,man.
It's always a pleasure to be inyour presence, so just praying
that you continue to stayblessed in your journey.
(01:03:55):
You know, thank you for yourwords in regards to even with
myself and just the things thatI learned through this
conversation.
But we truly appreciate you,man, and we hope that you know
we can do this again sometime.
And God bless you, brother.
And relationships matter.
The podcast past the white.
We appreciate you, my brother.
Speaker 3 (01:04:16):
Amen, amen.
Can I say one more thing for me?
Speaker 2 (01:04:19):
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (01:04:21):
I just want to speak over your broadcast this podcast
, but I was feeling when I wassitting here that this is going
to be national and international, and so this is not the day of
small beginning.
God's going to do a great workwith this relationship podcast
and I even see a show andseveral several networks
(01:04:42):
reaching out to you all, becausethe transparency on this show
is going to bless millions ofpeople.
Speaker 1 (01:04:48):
Wow, thank you for that.
I'm Chanel Scott, the queen of relationship talk.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
I'm Josh Powell, two-time NBA champion.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
I've journeyed from trauma to healing.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
From the NBA to family, I've learned what really
matters.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
We've come together to unlock the secrets of
successful relationships.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
One conversation at a time.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
One conversation at a time.
Welcome to Relationships Matter, the podcast.
My name is Chanel Scott.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
I'm Josh Powell.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
And guys, we have an amazing episode for you guys
today.
We have a special guest, PastorDwight Buckner.
We are so excited to have you.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
Hey man, I'm honored to be here.
Thank you guys for having me.
And congratulations to both ofyou in this wonderful podcast
and success.
Honored to be here.
Honored to be here.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
We're excited to have you, sir, absolutely.
We're going to be talking aboutyour latest book, breaking the
Cycles of Lust, and there's somuch in that we're going to have
you break it down for us today.
So, before I start asking you amillion questions, talk a
little bit about the book.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
Well, the book is really based off of personal
experience.
I have been one that have dealtwith lust in the past and I
learned that through that, thatlust did not start with me.
Most of it is transgenerational.
It's in the family, some thingsthat we have picked up just
naturally because someone in thefamily has struggled with it,
(01:33):
and so I really begin to wrestlearound the fact of where did
this come from?
Is it just me?
Is it, is it someone else inthe bloodline that dealt with
these issues?
And how do I overcome it?
Because if not maintained oreliminated, you'll destroy your
entire life.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
So when you say, struggle with it, do you?
Can you describe some of theexamples Right?
Could that?
Could that mean like youwitnessed it?
Could that mean that somethingmay have happened to somebody in
their childhood Like can youexpound upon?
Speaker 3 (02:07):
Yeah, I think if that's a very broad question,
I'm glad you asked it.
I think lust is a point where,if I've struggled with it, then
did somebody do something to methat I see, something that's
visual.
A lot of people that havestruggled with lust come to find
(02:28):
out there's somebody in theirfamily that dealt with it.
They had this naturalattraction for something that
they couldn't let it go.
And lust is not just sexuallust, it could be material lust,
and so, with that being said,for me my experience, josh, was
that I found out at an early agethat there were things that I
(02:49):
was drawn to.
My issue I'm going to be honestwith you, if I start bastering
my issue was women, and so Ifound out I said well, lord, why
do I feel a need to have todate different people?
Why is it that I feel a need toalways have to want to be with
somebody?
And it wasn't, it wasn'tnatural.
It wasn't natural, and so I hadto really begin to deal with
(03:11):
the root of lust and found outthere was somebody in my family
that dealt with the same thingwe love the Lord, or spiritual,
but there's also with every,with every family.
In it there's there's strengthsand there's weaknesses, and so
the weakness that's in my familywas lust, and so I began to
really be to deal with thiswhole notion of why do we
struggle with this.
Can we be free from this?
(03:34):
Can we break this cycle so thatit doesn't pass down to my kids
and then my children's children?
Speaker 1 (03:40):
I have a two part question.
So you said it's not naturaland I want to know how did you
distinguish that?
And then I also want you totalk about what is the
difference between lust and love.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
Well, I think our greatest example of love is in
First Corinthians, wherescripture Paul says that love is
patient.
Love is kind.
It keeps no record of wrong.
Love is more of a.
It's a covenant.
You keep your side of thecovenant, I keep my side of the
covenant.
I give you give.
Lust is more contractional.
It's it's I want something fromyou.
(04:15):
Uh, and and and vice versa.
And the thing about lust isthat it doesn't necessarily have
to be with the same person.
Uh.
Lust says well, if you don'tgive it to me, I'm going to get
it from somewhere else.
Uh, or I'm going to go to thisperson who will give it to me.
Lust can never be satisfied.
So it's a distinct differencebetween love and lust, because
(04:36):
love says I'm with you throughthe thick and thin, I don't just
want something from you, but infact I'm putting in the same
effort that you're putting inwhere it is together.
Lust says I'm going to get whatI want.
I'm gone, see you later, wow.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
So how did you again decipher that?
This is not natural Like this.
The way that I'm currentlyoperating is not natural Like
what was some of the.
I want you to articulate someof the, the signs, what was
actually happening, so peoplecan identify when they are
actually cause.
A lot of times people don'tknow the difference, right, I
think, when you're when you'rethe difference.
Speaker 3 (05:14):
When you're drawn away by lust, you can literally
be at work and something that'sattractive to you or lustful to
you can cause you to completelyneglect your actual assignment
at work, Go home or leave whereyou are and go after the thing
that you're lusting for.
One of the greatest exampleswas, was, was, was David.
(05:35):
He was God's chosen vessel.
God's chosen vessel soldierloved the Lord.
He was home from battle and heshould have been at war, but
instead of being at battle, heallowed lust to keep him in a
place of safety, Excuse me, aplace of where the enemy could
come in and destroy him.
He sees Bathsheba.
She's bathing, but he was neversupposed to be at home.
(05:57):
He was supposed to be on thebattlefield.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
He's out of position, yeah.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
But lust drove him home to a place where he knew he
can get it.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
Can lust and desire be separate, or are they want to
decide?
Speaker 3 (06:10):
I think there's.
There's a difference in havinga lustful desire and a healthy
desire.
Okay, I can have a desire towant to sleep with you and I'm
not married to you or I'm not incovenant with you.
That's a lustful desire.
Or I can have a desire to wantto do better in life to love.
So there's a distinctdifference.
(06:32):
Now, when we talk about thedesires of the flesh, those are
desires that I would assume areevil, desires that could
potentially destroy ourspiritual being, and so, um,
yeah, it's a desire, but it'sit's it's unhealthy desire.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
Do you think anything about the behavior can be
natural, Cause I know you saidis is not natural.
Were you speaking for?
Speaker 3 (06:57):
you or were you?
Speaker 2 (06:57):
speaking.
Speaker 3 (06:58):
What I, what I say, not natural, of course, if
you're married, there are thingsthat both of you can share.
The bedroom is is undefiled.
There's a natural desire therefor each other.
When I say that lust isunnatural, I'm speaking in terms
of it's unnatural for you tospend four hours on a computer,
(07:20):
uh, looking at porn.
That's unnatural, uh, it's it'sunnatural for you to sleep with
six different people the sameweek that that's unnatural, uh,
that that is.
That is something that needs tobe contained, something that
you really have to deal with, um, and there are people that
actually think that it's okay,uh, that it's natural, but it's
(07:41):
not what, what?
What it really speaks to is?
It speaks to love, deprivation.
It speaks to the fact that I'msuffering from something that I
never got.
Since I never got it, maybethese different individuals or
this site can fulfill a voidthat was never filled in my life
, which it doesn't, because lustcannot be satisfied.
(08:03):
So, when we talk about lust,some people are drawn away by
lust, because they're reallylonging for a hug, they're
really longing for somebody totell them that they'll be okay,
they're really long for somebodyto give them, you know,
inspiration and hope andencouragement.
But because some people haven'tever got that.
(08:23):
They'll seek for lust, which isa smoke screen.
Lust will send you down adirection you should not go, but
when you, when you're led bylust, it's really saying what do
you really want?
What?
What are you really longing for?
Because this individual is notit.
So, evidently, had you got whatyou needed, maybe these
proclivities and and and thesedesires wouldn't be there like
(08:48):
that, Right.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
What do you feel, cause you deal with people often
on a daily right, what do youfeel is the most consistent void
that people are trying to fill?
Because a lot of times, right,we watch social media.
We talked to our friends, ourfamily, and you've already
(09:10):
touched on it Like we normalizea lot of things.
So I'm asking for somebody,cause I'm sure somebody just can
hit home for somebody, like youknow, that may not look at that
void as a void.
They might think that that'ssomething that's completely
natural and normal.
So, with the work that you'redoing, you know, um, what do you
(09:31):
feel will probably be one ofthe top two or three boys that
people are trying to fill?
Speaker 3 (09:38):
Um, well, I think one void they're trying to feel is
love, Love, Um, there is a lackof love that people have
received, Right, and if I grewup in a household and my mother
never told me she loved me andmy father wasn't there, I'm
seeking into different avenuesto get something that I never
(10:02):
got.
So love is one.
Another one is hope.
Um, there are just some peoplethat are just completely lost.
Uh, they need to be inspiredand they need to be told that
you can make it, that you aregreat.
They weren't told these thingsgrowing up.
So if that was the case, ifthey weren't told these things
growing up, then they're goingto look in a place that may be
(10:23):
unhealthy, as long as they feellike I'm getting something that
I've been longing for.
Um.
The third one I would say is issecurity.
People are looking for securityand and and.
If they never got security of,or if they never knew who they
were, then what happens is thatthey allow their insecurities to
(10:46):
run them into environments andinto circles that they should
not be into.
Um, social media is a greattool if you're doing um outreach
or promoting or marketingthings of that nature.
We love social media, but alsocan be very detrimental to your
mental and your health.
Because, Absolutely, you findyourself comparing followers and
(11:09):
lifestyles and somebody standsin front of a Rolls Royce and
you're borderline depressedbecause you drive in a Honda and
you're basing that off of apicture, a picture Uh and, and
so um, um, we have to look inhealthy areas in terms of what
we use as our motivation and notjust a screen to say this is my
(11:32):
life.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
No, absolutely, and when we get back faster.
I want to uh, open up theconversation a little bit more
in regards to why people confuselove with lust.
Yes, when we get back,relationships matter to podcast.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
So we're talking about the difference between
lust and love and I want to sayI think I want to ask a question
or make a statement becausejust through our conversation it
takes me back to some of thesedysfunctional relationships that
we see, even for myself I'vebeen a part of in the past,
where we actually think that welove an individual when in fact
(12:18):
it's lust, especially when itturns toxic and dysfunctional
and you still stay.
So then there's that really loveit can be.
It has to be lust, right?
So that's like a aha moment,like wow, I thought I love this
person when I was really lustingat the something that maybe I
was void of.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
Yeah, I would say into all of our listeners um,
everyone that hugs and kissesyou doesn't love you.
Uh, and I think that's one ofthe greatest mistakes that we
make us thinking that ifsomebody hugs me or kisses me or
we have an intimate connection,that they love me right.
(13:02):
I think that's how a lot ofhearts are broken.
Uh, because we get into stuffassuming that because we've been
intimate together that we havea future together.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
Right.
Speaker 3 (13:13):
And that's not the case, because love, lust, now
goes in to take what it wantsand then it leaves.
And if you're somebody who isdesiring love and relationship
and you're lonely, sometimesyou'll let your standard down
for a bum just to fulfill a void.
(13:37):
You don't even care if theywork, you don't care if they
love the Lord, you don't care ifthey got anything going, but
because you're, you're longingfor love so bad you're willing
to allow lust to be thesubstitute for love.
And so, and so we get intothese very vulnerable spaces
when we're really seeking out alove and relationship, and we'll
(14:03):
be satisfied with somethingtemporal, knowing it's not
forced, but because we don'twant to be lonely, we're like
you know, yeah, you can comeover when you want to come, and
we get off work.
There doesn't have to be anystrings attached.
You get what you want, I getwhat I want.
I just need to know somebody'sthere for me.
And let me say this since we'reentering into holiday season,
folk are going to want to bebooed up.
(14:23):
They're going to be sittingaround the fireplace eating
marshmallows and watchingChristmas movies, but they want
somebody there with them.
And so if we don't have anybodythat will be there with us,
we'll lower our standard.
Go find somebody for the moment, take pictures and post it to
make it look like we're happywhen we're really suffering.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
But you know, something passed to Dwight.
I think a lot of people don'teven know what love is because
they they've never experiencedit, right, um, I think for me
personally, I've learned how tolove myself just by being a
student of the word.
Speaker 3 (15:00):
Come on.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
Like I've never experienced it outside of the
dynamic of my family.
You know what I'm saying.
Like my mother and father, theylove me more than anything and
I know this, right.
But I've never experienced itoutside of that.
And I think, for someone likeme, before I learned how to love
myself through the word, Ididn't know any better, right,
(15:22):
like I just thought that this iswhat it is, yeah.
And times when I've even gottenstuck in certain situations.
Most times I would think, well,I can't see past the situation,
like I don't think there'sanything else out there that's
better, and I got to deal withit with someone, so I might as
well just tolerate it here untilI learned better.
But I only learned that becauseI'm a student of the word.
(15:43):
That was God.
I had nothing to do with thatand he chose to show me and
demonstrate his love toward mein such a special way.
But everybody don't have thatsame experience, yeah.
So, like, how do you even tapinto?
Like, what is love?
How do I even start?
Like, if you don't have thatrelationship, how do you even
start to learn?
(16:04):
How, cause people say you knowyou need to love yourself more,
but you got to make thatpractical Like.
How do I practically learn tolove myself if I've never been
taught how to do it?
Speaker 3 (16:15):
Well, I think it's critical that you understand
that, that nobody can reallymake you happy the way you think
they can.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
Right, that's right.
Speaker 3 (16:24):
I've learned that, and you cannot depend on
somebody to bring you so muchjoy.
You don't need to wait to datesomebody to go to the movies.
Right, take yourself to themovies.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
It would be good to have somebody that looks.
We're not going to diminish,but I understand what you're
saying though.
Speaker 3 (16:45):
But take yourself to the movies, treat yourself to a
massage.
All of that is self care.
You're you're.
You're learning how toeffectively love you.
If you don't know how to loveyou, you cannot love anybody
else adequately.
They did a study years ago inthe earth and the the surface of
(17:10):
the ocean regarding diamonds,and they did a discovery and
found out that if you begin todig really, really low in the
ocean surface, there's aparticular diamond called a blue
diamond, and blue diamonds arediamonds that can absorb heat
and pressure.
They're extremely, extremelyrare and the price tag on them
(17:33):
is is really out of the roofbecause they're rare.
I've come to find out that wehave a lot of blue diamonds out
there that don't know their truevalue.
When you know your value, thenyou'll stop dating people that
have pawn shop mentalities.
There are a lot of people thatthat don't know the cost to have
you.
They don't know the price tohave you, but do you know your
(17:56):
worth?
Do you know your value?
When you begin to look at thatblue diamond and look at
yourself, then you'll begin torealize.
You know what.
I can't settle for this.
I know I am, and it's not acockiness, it's not pride.
It's not you being up, it'sjust you knowing who you are.
And if you know who you are,then you wait on God to bring
the right person.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
I want you to talk about.
How do you know this?
Because, I mean, everybodydon't have that relationship.
I think about when I was inthat space of just deficient, of
the love, of the attention thatI thought I wanted from a man,
and not knowing my value andseeing more value in them than I
saw in myself.
(18:35):
So I would pour into them andthen I would be deficient.
You know what I'm saying?
Because it wasn't reciprocatedand so, like I really wish
somehow somewhere we could talkabout practically outside,
because I was doing all thosethings.
I had no choice, though, as asingle woman.
If you want to go out to eat,you got to take yourself out.
You want to go to the movies,you don't have to do it by
(18:56):
yourself.
So I did those things naturallyright.
But, just learning practicallyhow to just say you know, I
really, because no one's goingto admit that they don't love
themselves.
Like I didn't realize that Ididn't love myself until I
learned to love myself.
And then I realized wow youreally didn't love yourself,
because if you loved yourself,you wouldn't allow someone to
(19:17):
treat you that way.
You know, but again, I'm one ofGod's chosen.
So he took it upon himself tosit me down and teach me,
because I had a natural desire,like I love the word, I have an
affinity toward the word, but Iknow everybody is it that way,
you know.
And so because he gave me that,like I sat under a word and I
(19:41):
just allowed God to pour into meand then, during that process,
he began to give me revelationabout me, who I was.
He stripped me down first ofall Let me see me, the way he
saw me but then he built me backup.
That's a process and that tookyears, you know.
So I just like for the women,because I'm the voice of the
single woman.
I want women to really learnhow to really love themselves,
(20:04):
Because we think we loveourselves.
Until we really learned that welike if you really loved
yourself, you wouldn't allowcertain things.
You just wouldn't.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
Yeah, so before, you answer, though, pastor, and
that's a great point, but I needto piggyback on the flip side
of it, because you know, eventhough we do have to learn right
, there's also that part ofthings, because you talked about
this earlier.
We're talking about lust.
We're talking about lust.
Then learning how to not loveyourself can also be something
(20:33):
that's passed down as well,because when you're watching the
behaviors of mom, dad orwhoever your guardian is, when
you're seeing how your siblingsare treating you or how other
family members or maybe friends,like these are things that you
learn to believe and accept asokay.
Well, we still kicking it.
You know they still around.
(20:54):
Maybe this is what love lookslike.
You know what I'm saying.
Maybe love does come with hurt,and that's supposed to be okay
and acceptable.
You know what I mean.
So I just had to speak to that,because I do think, on the flip
side, so many times, outside ofthe pain or the abuse, or
traumas and stuff like that,like certain things are just
(21:14):
passed down.
So we have to be willing to saystops with me, let me figure
out something, because itdoesn't feel good.
But I just wanted to say thatreal quick, but you got it,
pastor.
Speaker 3 (21:24):
Yeah, I think some of us have seen love from a very
distorted lens and if we seen itfrom a distorted lens growing
up, then we're gonna think it'snaturally healthy.
You might think it's healthy ornatural to be in abusive
relationship because, you sawthat growing up, only to find
out as you get older.
(21:46):
that's not gonna cut it.
But you said something very key, josh.
You said that it stops with me.
I think we all have to make upin our mind that we're not going
to live with our mother orfather's demons, absolutely.
We have to learn how to cutthat off at the root, because
some things we've inheritednaturally and we do it naturally
(22:08):
because we've seen it growingup.
But it stops with us.
You have to say to yourself I'mgonna be the last generation to
die broke.
I'm gonna be the lastgeneration to sleep with
multiple people.
I'm gonna be the lastgeneration to go through divorce
.
My family divorce runs in myfamily.
So I had to make a veryconscious decision.
(22:31):
When I got married, I said youknow what?
Whatever happens, we're gonnastrive to stay together.
I want the curse to be brokenwith me.
My mother and father weremarried for 17 years and then
they divorced after 17.
But I have to be the one to sayyou know what?
No, we're gonna stay togetherbecause I don't want that curse
(22:54):
to follow my children.
Furthermore, it's more thanjust you.
There are generations andpeople that are looking up to
you as a model to see if you'regonna stay married or if you're
gonna do the right thing, and soit does.
Stop with us.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
Yeah, Absolutely Well .
For one, it's safe to say thatyou do not subscribe to Cuffin
Season, I'm assuming?
Speaker 3 (23:20):
I'll say it like this it depends on the extent of
what that cuffing is.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
Got you, I got you, I just.
But now, when we get back,though, I'd still wanna ask to
be able to distinguish betweenlove and lust, and I also got
another one in the bag, butwe'll answer that one.
He will answer that one.
When we get back toRelationships Matter, the
podcast Relationships.
Speaker 1 (23:47):
Matter.
Welcome back to RelationshipsMatter, the podcast.
So before we get back into thishot topic of lust and love, I
wanna encourage you all to like,share and subscribe on all
major streaming platforms.
So before we went to break Josh, you were stating to Pastor
Dwight that you had a question.
Go ahead and ask your question.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
So it's a two-part question and for one to help
people recognize that there is alarge difference between love
and lust.
So I want you to break thatdown and where I'm going with it
, cause I know we spoke about ita little bit during the break,
but a lot of people are basingrelationship on the outer Right.
(24:31):
You got this attractive man,you got this beautiful woman.
They're coming together, butthey're basing the relationship,
the connection, communication,their whole foundation is
strictly on the fact that I havethis attractive man at home and
I got this beautiful woman athome, which also leads to people
wanting to have babies firstprior to making a serious
(24:55):
commitment.
So I know that's anotherconversation in itself, but I
just think that we should breakthat down some more because it's
giving people false hope in therelationship space, because
their focus is off from thebeginning and then, when that
part dies and we're wonderingwhy so many breakups, so many
(25:17):
single parent households and thecommunities are lacking, it's
because we're not focusing onthe other parts to the person.
Speaker 3 (25:26):
So Well, I think it's a great question.
I think it's critical to saythis is that, first of all,
demons are not ugly.
That is, we have to addressthat Demons are not ugly.
(25:50):
So that's how.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
Hey, can we get a, sir Quincy?
Hey, Quincy, we need a.
We gotta put that one on a sir.
Speaker 3 (25:59):
Oh my God, demons are not ugly.
That's good.
That's good.
Most of the people, some of thecraziest people that I ever got
hooked up with, were beautiful.
The problem was is that Iwanted a long term relationship
with somebody who I had justsolely based the outer
(26:21):
culturements of.
But demons are beautiful, andso the devil's never gonna send
you something that you don'twant.
That's the first thing.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
So he can bless you too.
Huh, the devil can bless youtoo.
In a negative way.
Speaker 3 (26:35):
There you go, he's gonna send you something and
it's very temporal.
He's gonna send you somethingthat you want Hips, complexion,
hair, muscles, abs, whatever youwant He'll send it to you.
You don't normally find outthat it's, that it's a demon,
until you spent some time withit, till you find out you know
(26:56):
what.
We take good pictures together,we've got intimacy, but you're
abusive.
Or or you don't want anythingout of life, or you're
controlling and and a lot of usthink that we found love
Visually before we actually,before we actually find out that
it was lust.
(27:16):
Let me, let me say this to youthe worst thing you can do is
Get hooked up with somebody andhave beautiful babies with them,
a beautiful looking family, butyou want to separate from them
because you realize I did notreally fully unravel or discover
their mental, their genealogy.
(27:40):
Where they came from, withtheir family history, is what
they deal with.
That's the whole purpose ofmarriage counseling is I don't
listen.
You can be cute all you want,but if you can't pay bills, then
we don't have a future.
You can be nice looking, but ifyou don't want to do some very
fundamental basic things, thenthis thing is not gonna work.
(28:01):
And I think a major challengeis that we've hooked up with
some people that look reallygood but there's no substance
there, there's no future there,and most people that that that
that you hook, that you havehooked up with that you finally
have no substance.
They know they ain't got nosubstance.
They have a history of hookingup with people or choosing
(28:24):
people like you because theyknow that that they're gonna
live off of you.
Mm-hmm, and let me say this toyou as well In looking for mate,
you should always lookspiritually first for the mate.
If I get into an accident, Idon't care how cute you are.
I Want to know if you can prayfor me while I'm in ICU, while
(28:49):
I'm in the hospital.
I want to know that you'regoing to do homework with the
kids.
You know that you're gonna helpmove the family forward.
And so the Bible says I believeit's Proverbs that charm is
deceptive, beauty is fleeting,but a woman who fears the Lord
is to be praised.
(29:10):
What that scripture is implyingis that you cannot allow what
you see on the outward tocontrol your future.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
The fear the Lord is the substantial and the
substance of the thing that Ikeep it going Some people don't
realize it and you can pick itback off of this, but I feel
that for some, lust is forever.
Hmm, because a lot of peopleright, if the sex or chemistry
is that good, mm-hmm, then theywill bypass the other toxic
(29:43):
behaviors only for a certainamount of time.
Yeah, yeah, there are somepeople I can think of personally
, Because you also look at itfrom the standpoint to a like we
don't divorce over here.
You know what I mean but they,then they dip in.
They might be different, right,but but.
But what I'm sharing is Peoplestill will be caught up in this
(30:06):
cycle and it's it's ongoing andit could be based on the look,
the Attraction, that, excuse me,the attraction.
It could be based on thechemistry, it could based on
different things, but they'renot doing any of the other work.
You know what I'm saying and II just know that.
I've had personal conversationsPutting that out there.
(30:29):
Like there's got to be more.
You know what I mean.
Like when you talk aboutsubstance, and All you got to
bring to the table is how youlook a good smile, a nice body
and you feel like that's enoughBecause that's what you're used
to.
A lot of people are used tothat.
Just like a man with money, ifthat's all he got to bring to
(30:51):
the table, he feel like that'swhat works.
And it's sad because we talkabout lust from a sexual but we
also spoke about this too butFrom a financial standpoint,
there are women who are stayingwith men who have money and
they're they're good with that,they're gonna be okay with.
Just like I'll settle with thefact that I got this nice house.
(31:12):
I can do what I want, I don'thave to work this down, the
third, but they dying inside,yeah and that, to me, I think,
is more so what someone has seengrowing up.
Speaker 3 (31:24):
You've seen somebody that was Living that same type
of lifestyle or behavior, andthat's all you may know, or
that's all you've seen growingup.
The worst thing you can do isstay with somebody Because of
the money, because once they drythe money up, then what does
that leave you?
And so this is why you do haveto have your own, you do have to
(31:44):
work, you do have to strive tobe the best you can be and,
truthfully, the the foundationof a healthy relationship is two
people coming together, bothwant to work towards something.
You may not even have nothing,both of you, but if you you're
willing to work towardssomething and you both give a
hundred percent, then that itturned out to be wonderful.
The challenge is now,especially in our generation, is
(32:06):
that we want everything to bemicrowave.
You know we don't want to workfor nothing.
You know we want, we wantsomebody who makes Six figures
and we don't even have a job, wedon't even care to get a job
because we're looking for thesehandouts.
But that's not reality andthat's not going to.
That's not sustainable.
But what is sustainable is thefact that you can bring
(32:28):
something to the table.
It may not be as much as moneywhich somebody else, who, who,
who is willing to work with you.
I remember years ago, many, manyyears ago, way before I got
married, you know, I datedsomeone that was financially
well off.
I mean, they were rolling andand For me I was saying, you
(32:49):
know this, for me I was sayingthis could never work because
I'm just not at a stage in mylife where I could properly
receive, and I want to grow tothe place where I could be able
to Contribute as much, and thatthat was for me then.
So I would have rather Datasomebody that was more so on my
level, financially just starting, just growing, as opposed to
(33:11):
somebody who was already up here.
Now they weren't condescendingor nothing like that.
But what I'm saying is thatthere's something about having
somebody that's kind of whereyou are, where you both have
goals and vision and aspiration,strategy and plan to work
towards something successful.
Speaker 1 (33:27):
I've noticed that even in the area of professional
athletes.
I've noticed that you see thesemen, they make a lot of money,
they have these beautiful womenwhen they're in the league and
the moment they retire, you seesuch as getting divorced or
something on social media wherethey're not together, yeah, or
somebody leaving such and such.
Yeah you know what I'm saying.
So it does come to an end.
(33:49):
Or even you mature, or, like wehad, steven, you know, and he
talked about his now wife asopposed to how things were
before, because you grow up andyou see people for who they
really are.
Speaker 3 (34:01):
Yeah, you know.
Yeah, and to answer that,chanel, I used to feel really
bad In my college years becauseSome of the women that I was
attracted to weren't attractedto me because they wanted the
athletes.
You know, they was like youknow, I'm getting with the
athlete because some of theirmind was I'm gonna be a
millionaire.
(34:22):
And it was one lady inparticular, she, that I was
interested in and shedeliberately ran after an
athlete and and years laterdidn't work out.
They got injured.
And Then she comes back tryingto, you know, talk to me and
says well, I should have wentwith you.
You end up, you know, goinginto ministry and I'm like no,
you were just looking for youknow, you know, and and I even
(34:47):
think that there are someathletes that know when
somebody's with them, Becauseyou know incident.
Speaker 2 (34:55):
We get back relationships matter.
Speaker 1 (35:04):
Welcome back to relationships matter the podcast
.
So before we went to break, Iwas asking you, joshua, when you
were in the league specifically, did you overlook the fact?
When you knew women had thewrong intention?
Like, did you even know?
You know they were just tryingto get with you Because of who
(35:24):
you were, what you had, or werethey genuinely interested in you
?
Speaker 2 (35:30):
I think we would have to ask them.
But respectfully, I mean I wasmarried during my majority of my
tenure, so you know I've donemy due diligence was not the
(35:52):
best husband.
I take ownership for mydecisions and I was a part of a
life.
My belief system is different.
I was raised different.
Some of the things that I stillstruggle with to this day
because my belief system isstill the same.
Speaker 1 (36:11):
What's your belief system?
Speaker 2 (36:13):
I don't believe in monogamy.
Speaker 1 (36:16):
But you practice monogamy.
Speaker 2 (36:18):
I do subscribe to the channel.
Speaker 1 (36:20):
But you don't believe in it.
Speaker 2 (36:22):
Talk about that.
The reason is and I've beenvery open about- this because
I'm spiritually on my journeyand for 38 years I'm 40 now
never met a monogamous man,never met a monogamous woman.
Speaker 1 (36:45):
You met a monogamous woman.
Speaker 2 (36:47):
Never heard, never heard.
Speaker 1 (36:50):
I'm not going to be a monogamous woman.
Speaker 2 (36:53):
But people have put on.
But you know I'll be thinkingthat you be storing something in
your vault, I know.
But we're going to say that one.
But let me get my dog so pastit and go ahead and hit me with
that ducky one time.
But basically, brother, I wasgroomed different.
(37:14):
I was shown different things, adifferent way of life.
My understanding was as long ashome is good, no problems.
That don't come back.
You smooth, we man, we do whatwe do.
I also have a history of sexualabuse, like things that I've
seen in my sexual abuse startedat nine, 10 years old, so we
(37:35):
talking about years, decades ofwhat I felt in Dean was normal.
And then I actually at 36, whatwas the pandemic like?
Three years ago, right beforethat, when we had first started
working on you know what I meanon podcasts and books, whatever.
(37:56):
And I remember I sat in yourdriveway and I had a counselor.
I had a therapy session and forthe first time my therapist
told me she was like.
I'll explain to her some thingsthat happened to me in my
childhood.
She said you know you weresexually abused, right?
Speaker 1 (38:14):
He didn't know it.
Speaker 2 (38:15):
I had no clue, bro.
I sat there for 10 minutes, bro, and I felt, I felt some way.
I just didn't know what it was,I was feeling, and I didn't say
a word for 10 minutes and shejust looked at me.
She was just like it's okay,you know what I'm saying.
Like, whatever it is that youfeel and like, just try to let
it out.
And I just, I was just confusedin the first thing that I asked
(38:35):
her.
I'm like, but that's how I grewup, that was normal to me.
Like nobody, nobody told me itwas bad to be doing the things
that I was doing when I was ateenager and I was laying up
with women 20 years older thanme.
Nobody told me that that wassomething that wasn't supposed
(38:55):
to, you know, be happening.
I thought that that was normalbecause we all were
participating.
You know what I'm saying.
So it really has shaped me in away that I still like it's
something that I still it'sstill a challenge, I guess I
(39:18):
don't want to say it's astruggle, because, again, I
believe, like I thoroughly feelthat way.
You know what I mean.
But but I do understand that itcomes from something.
I acknowledge that and I'maware of it Right, and on the
other side, I feel like itbecame something that, because
that was my normal, it's like Ilike it, even though I
understand, okay, this behaviorhappened when it happened.
(39:40):
But I get to this also a partof why I feel the way that I
feel too.
Speaker 3 (39:47):
Yeah, and I think a large part of that too, josh, is
because the enemy loves toattack your innocence.
And so if he can come in, evenat the age you were, and begin
to manipulate, or use people tomanipulate, to get you to think
that this is okay behavior andyou should this, this was
(40:08):
natural, then he uses it as atool to try to get you to think
that, hey, everything I've donewas right, everything that I got
into was okay, when in allreality, they may not have been
okay, and so what I?
But when I heard you talking,um, I really heard the Lord
saying that there's some, somehealing that is even taking
(40:31):
place.
And even as you get older,you'll find yourself being
loosened from some of theselayers that were thrown on you,
things that were not okay, and Ieven see an inward healing
happening there.
And I know you just, you justwrote a book, but there's
another book that's going to becoming and some more
transparency that would beshared from that book.
(40:51):
But there's going to be ahealing that takes place from
some of the stuff that you, thatyou have gone through.
Um, you're coming to a place nowin your life where you're
finally becoming more settled.
You know, um, I'm selling in.
Yeah, there's some things youstill think are right on that,
but you're starting to become alittle more settled and starting
to realize, hey, maybe maybethat was not right, maybe maybe
(41:15):
the wrong person was in my ear,maybe the wrong people were
around me, but there's, there'sa healing taking place there and
and you're not where you usedto be, even probably mentally
with that, but, um, yeah, I cansee the maturity in how you've
you're started to grow from whatwas to where you are now.
So, kudos to you and even thegrowth that that's taken place
(41:36):
in your life and you evenrecognizing, in your previous
marriage, hey, there were somethings I did wrong, I messed up,
but so you've acknowledged thatthere was some, some immature
things that I've done.
So that's the first step tohealing.
Speaker 2 (41:50):
So I I appreciate that I do want to add a little
bit more to that, because for me, I feel like I'm acknowledging
that I heard a person that Ithat I took a vow to right, yes,
but I, because I didn't knowhow to communicate properly
where I was at that time.
Right, I'm trying to be on whatsomeone else wants me to be on,
(42:19):
and it it was a painful process.
Speaker 3 (42:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:26):
You know, and there are other things that I could
say but just for me to takeownership for me, like that's
why I say like that was, thatwas hurtful.
Speaker 3 (42:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:37):
I do want to ask you though you know because you're,
you know you're, you're marriedand even from the standpoint of
you know, being a pastor, likethere, it's like a different
level of you know how peopleview you, how you're supposed to
move, but you're still a man atthe end of the day.
So what, what did that looklike for you in your healing and
(42:58):
for you to be able to overcomethat feeling?
Because you said it wassomething that you had dealt
with early on in theconversation.
So I think it's important forpeople to understand that.
Speaker 3 (43:08):
Yes, great question.
Now.
I've never, of course, beenabused any of that thing, but
I've dealt with, you know, lustat different levels of my life,
at any younger age.
God uses imperfect people, andso I had to realize that I'm
(43:29):
qualified to be someone's pastorbased on my experience and what
I've been through, and we needmore pastors and leaders that
will be more transparent.
Um, I'm not speaking to peopleevery Sunday and every week
because I'm perfect.
I'm speaking to you becauseI've I've been through some
things and God's allowed me tobe a vessel to share, um my
(43:52):
transparency and what I've beenthrough and how it could help
somebody else overcome Um truthof the matter is, if there's a,
if a lot more leaders or pastorswould be more transparent, then
more people would get free.
Um, um, it's hard, uh, to be inthis position and to act like
everything is always okay.
(44:14):
Yeah, um, folk need to knowwhat you've been through.
They need to know your history.
Um, and so, even with this book, writing this book, um, a close
friend of mine inspired me towrite it years ago because he
knew that was my struggle.
You know, he knew what I wentthrough, and so what better way
than to help other people withthat.
Um, and so, yeah, we need to betransparent and we need to
(44:34):
share what we've been through.
Speaker 2 (44:36):
Mm, hmm, Now that that was beautifully put and I
think that you know too, when wecome back.
I know one of the other becauseI have so many questions, but I
think for people to understand,like when you're a person of
faith, no matter what your walkis, you know for for people to
understand like we're stillhuman and we're we're on this
(44:56):
earth because we are sent.
Yes, you know what I'm sayingand because of the things that
we did do right, and justbecause we choose whatever our
calling is that that doesn'ttake away from the work that
needs to be done right as we'regoing after, whatever that
purpose may be.
So you know, I just want you tospeak to that when we get back.
(45:17):
But relationships matter.
The podcast past are going tobless us when we get back after
this break.
Speaker 1 (45:28):
Welcome back to relationships matter, the
podcast.
So, Josh, I want to talk to youabout your journey today,
because you said that you knowyou still not necessarily
struggle, but you have a beliefsystem, but you subscribe to a
different channel of monogamy.
So talk a little bit about thatjourney.
Speaker 2 (45:47):
I think for me the best way to put it is just
understanding that.
You know pastor talked about itfirst and any and all things
that we do.
You know it's important tostart spiritually you know
that'd be the root and thefoundation.
So, regardless of how Ipersonally feel, there's
instruction, there's somethingthat's written, is there for us
to see and for us to follow, andI try my best to make every
(46:12):
effort in doing so.
You know, now that's the hardpart because, again, you know,
my flesh may take over from timeto time, but I really do give
it the best effort that I canbecause I'm understanding that
you know, one of my main goalsis to make it back to the
kingdom and I got to make surethat.
(46:32):
You know, my resume looks asgood as possible when it's my
time.
So that is what I choose overeverything else.
But I do know that I've grown,because it used to be a lot of
action behind the words andeverything else or the thoughts,
(46:55):
and now I can at least freeze.
You know what I mean To be like.
Nah, let me pump the brakes alittle bit.
But you know, and the otherthing that's important to is
just having transparentconversations at home, and it's
not easy, you know.
Like you know, pastor, youtalked about it.
(47:15):
I know me and Chanel have somany conversations, whether on
camera or off, and it's justimportant that we do share,
because then how could you knowhow to deal with me as a friend
or how could you know how todeal with me as a friend if you
don't know?
Yeah, so that's why, for me, Itry to be not scripted, because
(47:36):
we got a lot of people who haveplatforms but they still keep a
distance up, and I know painwhen I see it.
I know people that are doingwhat they're doing when I see it
, and I try to be an example ofsomething else, and I mean this
conversation has just has reallybeen a blessing just in talking
(47:58):
about these different things,and I appreciate you for asking
me.
You know I definitely want toget your take on.
You know what that processlooks like, because I know I'm
not the only man struggling.
You know I don't want to saystruggle I know I'm not the only
man that's going through that,whether you see it as a struggle
or whether you see it as achallenge or however that looks,
but I just, I just want to askyou like what, what is you know?
(48:22):
I mean, what does that looklike?
I'm going to, I probably answerit like this.
Speaker 3 (48:27):
I think the greatest and I'm going to say something a
little might be a littlecontroversial, but, um, and
talking about lust in terms ofwanting to be successful and be
great and not allow lust to tobe successful and not allow lust
to to ruin your life um,especially with me being a
(48:51):
pastor and leading people and Iwant to speak to other leaders
that are in leadership andleading you know hundreds of
people Um, I think one of thegreatest challenges is to keep
your draws up.
Keep your draws up.
I had a, I had a best friend.
(49:13):
He says, man, you can dowhatever you need to do in life.
Keep your draws up.
Make sure that you're not beingenticed and, in certain rooms
where you're tempted to bevulnerable, to give yourself
away and I think we live in asociety that promotes give
yourself away to anybody, justtake it off.
(49:35):
I do Bible studies on Instagram,tiktok, facebook, and I noticed
that you know it's easy to goviral taking your clothes off.
Anybody can get a million viewstaking your clothes off, but
can you keep them on?
And so I think one of thechallenges is self-control.
Um, when I think about myministry, I think about
(49:56):
pastoring, I think about people.
I realized the.
I know the only way to destroyit is to be enticed and to do
something outside of my marriageand it'd go downhill.
So my prayer consistently isLord, keep me.
I'm not perfect, and anybodythat's on a platform with major
(50:17):
people uh, that that that wouldsay it's easy is is wrong.
They, they have to be soundedand grounded with God and have
make a conscious decision thatmy character is more important
than anything.
At the end of the day, josh,when they say ashes to ashes,
dust to dust, they're not goingto remember my great sermons or
(50:39):
sermons I preached.
You know what they're going toremember.
They're going to think about mycharacter and they're going to
say did he live a life that wasexemplary or did he live a life
that lined up with his public,his private?
Did his private life line upwith his public life?
Speaker 2 (50:54):
To your point.
Can you just speak on realquick If you you have the chance
to let you know any viewerthat's watching this?
Um, you know members of yourchurch that's watching this.
Just share, whether it's fromyour perspective or things that
you know as a whole, what is thehardest thing about being a
(51:15):
pastor or person that's inleadership?
Because, again, people havethis idea right Of what it looks
like or what you all go throughand sometimes you know more
times than none they have noidea.
Speaker 3 (51:29):
Well, actually, one of the hardest things about
being in leadership is wantingmore for people than than than
than what they want forthemselves.
Um, there are a lot of peoplethat I come into contact with
that I want to see grow andmature.
Um, but they some have assumedthat they've already arrived and
are willing to be discipled,and I will.
It have been groomed.
So to want to see somebody orto see somebody doing better,
(51:52):
but them not wanting to dobetter is a challenge.
The other challenge is is issurrounding the people that are
surrounding yourself with peoplewho will actually support you.
Um, I pastor in Atlanta.
Uh, there, there are pastorshere that are great pastors, but
it's a very territorial city,and so one of the main
(52:16):
challenges is is getting thesupport of other pastors and
growing together and this allget together and do a work for
God, for the kingdom, butbecause there are so many
leaders that are so gun-hole onhaving their people, their
section or their followers, it'shard to collaborate.
Is that God's will that?
No, I have separation anddivision between leaders.
(52:38):
No, that's not God's will.
Speaker 2 (52:41):
That's why I stay Go ahead.
Speaker 3 (52:43):
I said I'm glad you speak.
That's why I I I stay them out.
You know I stay in my lane andI do what I do and you know I'm
just here.
You know I'm here.
People need me.
Yeah, I decided a long time ago, josh and and just ministry,
that, um, I'm not going to waitfor nobody to give me no
platform.
Um, I'll use my phone and thecamera on my phone and I'll
(53:07):
speak to hundreds and thousandsof people a day to encourage
them.
I'm not waiting for nobody tobring me in.
People need hope, they needencouragement and they cannot
wait for a conference for hope.
They need it daily.
Yeah, Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (53:22):
What can we do better on our walk?
Speaker 3 (53:26):
Put God, keep, continue to put God first.
Uh, put you last and put Godfirst.
Speaker 1 (53:31):
I want to.
Before we end this conversation, we still need to break it down
.
How do you break free from lust?
Speaker 3 (53:38):
You have to ask God to literally deliver you from
some of the soul ties thatyou've connected over the years.
I think one of the greatestmistakes is, as some of us say,
we're prepared for marriage, butwhen we get married we're still
seeing our spouse through thelenses of somebody else we slept
with.
So it's imperative that we askGod to break us from every,
(54:00):
every physical attraction we had, every physical encounter we
had with somebody that we stillcarry around Um, um.
Because if that not be, if, ifyou don't do that, then then the
new partner or somebody thatGod sends you, you'll be doing
them a disservice because you'llbe wanting them to be like
somebody else.
And it's really demons.
(54:21):
It's, it's, it's, the root ofit is demons.
Those are multiple demons inyou.
I remember, um uh, years agowhen I, when I struggled with it
years ago, before I got married, um, after I slept with
somebody.
You might think I'm crazy.
After I slept with somebody, Iwould literally go into my
closet and pray and ask God todeliver me from what I just did.
(54:44):
Immediately, I wouldn't evenlet it be, I wouldn't even get
24 hours soon as they left.
But I'll be in my closet.
God forgive me Cause I didn'twant I.
I I was involved in that act,but I did not want to carry
around their spirit.
Speaker 2 (54:57):
Did you ever say God, forgive me, like me at stroke,
though?
Speaker 1 (55:01):
Huh, you.
Speaker 3 (55:04):
I'll see you later.
I said all of it, god forgiveme All the and oftentimes when I
did it they were in anotherroom.
Speaker 2 (55:13):
They went out of the room.
Yeah, there were another room.
I think that's real, though.
Like, listen, that's thekeeping it a buck.
You know, I'll just, I'll, just, I'll, just, I'll, just, I'll
just, I'll just, I'll just, I'lljust, I'll just, I'll just.
Speaker 3 (55:23):
I didn't want to know .
That's exactly what I wassaying.
Speaker 2 (55:25):
Listen, I know, for me there's been a time I'm like
bruh, like being a middle and bethinking like man, what, what,
what are you doing?
So that that's why I asked Iwasn't like trying to be like
disrespectful, I mean, I justreally like, because you know
it's something that you didn'tstop, though, when you thought,
that did you.
Speaker 3 (55:47):
For me because it seemed like I need to intervene
here For me.
For me, I stopped playing withmy life when I realized that I
could not be 100% for God and100% for the devil.
When I lifted my hands inchurch, I knew that when I
(56:10):
lifted my hands to God, I didn'twant anybody looking at me that
I slept with saying he's fake.
Wow, I don't want thattestimony.
Speaker 1 (56:19):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (56:20):
Pastor, that's amazing.
Go ahead.
Speaker 1 (56:22):
Before we end.
I did want to ask you becausewe were talking about this whole
demonic thing, the multipledating.
Can you do you have any insighton that whole?
Speaker 3 (56:34):
I don't think there's anything wrong with dating
multiple people, but it needs tobe time in between.
Okay, you cannot date somebodythis month and date them for six
months and then you get rightout of that into something else.
There should be some intervals,some time to heal from what you
just experienced to where youfeel healthy enough to get into
something else.
When you date people, multiplepeople, consecutively, back to
(56:58):
back, back to back, your spiritis now cluttered so you don't
even know what you want.
And then you started to buildup a reputation.
People started saying I wasjust with him or her last week,
so you don't want to do thateither.
But to be delivered from that,you have to say Lord, prepare me
If this is something you want.
A lot of, a lot of dating we do.
God doesn't want you in, butbecause we're lonely, we get
(57:20):
into it to satisfy temporal need.
Might just be for the holidaysI was with you, but as soon as
the holidays are over with, I'mgoing to be done.
I'm looking for a summer flink.
Some people think like that,and so what happens is that we
we get into multiplerelationships because we think
that sooner or later, throughthese multiple relationships,
one of them is the one when,when all reality, none of them
(57:42):
are the one, because if youprayed for God to bring you
something or to prepare theright mate for you, then you
have to wait on God.
God's only going to bless whathe has commissioned.
He's not going to bless whatyou commissioned.
Speaker 1 (57:56):
You may think about something.
Then I saw this video clip,probably about two days ago, and
it literally brought me totears.
It was a young lady, her namewas Brittany Noel, and she
talked about cause I've beenseeking and petitioning God for
(58:16):
a mate for years, right, and shetalked about she went out on a
date with this gentleman.
He was a new person that shemet and she was like he was
everything that she likedHandsome.
The date was wonderful.
And when they went, when theywere preparing to go on the
second date, the date the daybefore, he called her up and
(58:38):
said you know, you're an amazingwoman, but I think I want to
work it out with my ex.
And she was smiling and saidyou know, thank you for your
transparency.
But when she got off the phoneshe was like God, like why would
you allow me to meet him if Ican't have him, you know?
She said why the unnecessarypain?
And she said God had to sit herdown and say I wanted to show
(59:01):
you what you could have accessto if you do the work.
Like right now you're the sameversion of who you were in the
last relationship and that thinglike hit me like a ton of
bricks, like it changedsomething on the inside of me
really and truly, because I canthink of three different times
(59:23):
where I prayed that prayer andsaid God, why would you allow
this?
Why would you allow me toencounter this person if I
couldn't have him?
Why the unnecessary pain, youknow?
And so I wanted to bring thatup during this show because
that's like go ahead.
Speaker 3 (59:42):
Well, I want to say this I think God likes to
surprise us.
I don't think he necessarilywants us to know everything all
the time.
So even if we meet somebodythat we assume perfect for us I
met them, I could see myselfwith them he allows us to make
choice.
(01:00:02):
But then God likes to surpriseyou.
He likes to give you somethingyou never saw coming, something
that was beyond your imagination.
And I say that to say that alot of times, when we deem or we
think somebody is for us orthis could potentially be the
one, it may not be the one.
It may be someone, that God,that you have not seen yet.
(01:00:24):
Last night in Bible study Italked about sometime with faith
.
You can see it, but then youcan't see it.
Sometimes you can be in aseason where you see it coming,
but then you don't see it coming.
What does that mean?
That means that sometimes wecan see things through the
spirit, sometimes we can seethings through the flesh.
Sometimes we do, sometimes wedon't.
(01:00:45):
And in this particular case, allthis is preparation for who
God's getting ready to send foryou.
There is a certain work thatmust take place inside of you
for marriage and for what Godhas for you.
It isn't that you're notbeautiful, it's not that you
don't have the wisdom or thatyou don't possess what it takes
to be a great wife.
(01:01:05):
It's God's making sure thatwhoever gets you knows who they
have.
Vice versa, and whoever hesends to you, they're gonna know
your worth, they're gonna knowyour value and all those other
things.
Furthermore, god knows thetroubles and the problems of the
(01:01:26):
individual who we may havefought was for us Could have
been a great day at Carabas, wecould have enjoyed the movie,
had a nice little night out, butGod saw it down.
In the future, well, thisperson's gonna do this to you.
But yeah, I would just say toeven those that are single, that
are waiting for a mate, let Godprepare you, let him train you
(01:01:49):
for who he's going to send foryou.
If you have a desire to bemarried, then you're gonna be
married, a system at a time.
You don't wanna rush and getinto something for five minutes
and then it'll take you fiveyears to get out of it.
Speaker 1 (01:02:01):
Absolutely.
And the whole reason that mebringing that up is I wanted you
to speak to the weight Cause.
In that weight process youcould do some crazy stuff and
get caught up in some crazysoul-tied entanglements, things
of that nature.
So I wanted you to speak tothat.
But we have come to the end ofour show.
Bishop, lord Jesus, oh yeah,I'll tell you that we have come
(01:02:24):
to the end of our show.
Pastor Dwight, I want you totell people how they can find
your book Breaking the Cycles ofLust.
Speaker 3 (01:02:31):
Breaking the Cycle of Lust.
You can find it at Amazon orBarnes Noble, online in the
store or online.
You can find it there.
It's everywhere on all bookoutlets pretty much.
Speaker 1 (01:02:42):
Absolutely.
And where can people find youon social media?
Cause you said you have Biblestudy on TikTok Instagram.
Speaker 3 (01:02:47):
Yeah, pastor Dwight Buckner Jr.
Instagram.
Pastor Dwight Buckner Jr.
Tiktok Facebook same handle.
All my accounts are verified soyou'll be able to find me,
cause there's some folk that besaying they follow me and
they've been giving away moneyto strangers using my picture.
Wow.
(01:03:07):
So, yeah, make sure it's a bluecheck by the name.
Speaker 2 (01:03:12):
Well, just want to give you some love, brother, and
tell you, man, we appreciateyou For one, just being somebody
that others can look up to.
You know what I mean thecommunity leader.
You know a loving husband.
You know what I mean Somebodythat has principles, morals and
values.
You know what I mean Just beinga great example of successful
(01:03:35):
man, successful businessman andcontinuing to spread the word.
Just want to say thank you forcoming up here sharing your time
.
This could have easily went fortwo hours or maybe even longer.
Just a beautiful conversation,man.
It's always a pleasure to be inyour presence, so just praying
that you continue to stayblessed in your journey.
(01:03:55):
You know, thank you for yourwords in regards to even with
myself and just the things thatI learned through this
conversation.
But we truly appreciate you,man, and we hope that you know
we can do this again sometime.
And God bless you, brother.
And relationships matter.
The podcast past the white.
We appreciate you, my brother.
Speaker 3 (01:04:16):
Amen, amen.
Can I say one more thing for me?
Speaker 2 (01:04:19):
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (01:04:21):
I just want to speak over your broadcast this podcast
, but I was feeling when I wassitting here that this is going
to be national and international, and so this is not the day of
small beginning.
God's going to do a great workwith this relationship podcast
and I even see a show andseveral several networks
(01:04:42):
reaching out to you all, becausethe transparency on this show
is going to bless millions ofpeople.
Speaker 1 (01:04:48):
Wow, thank you for that.
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