Tequila Sunrise | S1E41 - Retromade

Episode Transcript
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Katie (01:32):
Hello.
Hello.
I'm Katie and welcome to a retromade your pop culture rewind.
Today is a very special episodefor a couple of reasons.
One we're completing our explorationof the best of Patrick Swayze and Kurt
Russell's eighties and nineties moviesfor season one, the ultimate everyman.

(01:53):
And I have third time.
Repeating guest with me, Ryan,because he started the show
with me with the first episode.
He came back about midway throughand I'm very grateful that he has
agreed to join me to bookend theseason and finish it up with me.
Ryan.
Thanks for joining mefor the final episode

(02:15):
of season 1.

Ryan Rebalkin (02:17):
Yeah, this is it, eh?
I was actually thinking, when, not,when, when is this going to end?
Because there's just so many filmsstill, there's more films you can cover
that you said the best of, so this is,

Katie (02:28):
There will be a bonus episode where I wrap it up with a bow about our
everyman and, what we covered kind ofby the numbers, but there's 40 movies.
This is the 40th movie.
We did a couple of bonuses in there.
But the criteria essentiallywas that they had to be.
One of the mains in themovie from the 80s or 90s.

(02:48):
So not not any of their more modern work

And I guess, yeah, I guess that is yeah, that's a lot of films,
let's say 20 each or whatever it is.
It's, it's been fun.
I've listened to every episode.
I don't just say that, as youknow, I listened to every episode.
I always enjoy it.
I just want to give a shoutout to a Moody and Gru.
They were on your, one of the later.
Or last episodes I'velistened to at the time

Katie (03:07):
used cars.

That's right.
Use cars.
with a movie I haven't seen yet.
So I know you listened to one of my otherpodcasts, the Ed Zwick podcast called
Zwick's flicks, the Ed Zwick podcast.
There's me plugging that.
So check it out where you've been a guestco host and that for three episodes,
but I know you listened to that showtoo, and you'll listen to episodes,
even if you haven't seen the movie, for

Katie (03:26):
Mm hmm.

I do the same for you.
Use cars is one I definitelywant to see, but I just want to
give a shout out to Moody andGru who are guests hosts on that.

Katie (03:32):
They were great guests.

Are you going on their show?
Have you done that one

Katie (03:36):
oh Whoa funnily enough Ryan And it ties into our movie today.
I will say just at the top, themovie we're going to cover today,
we're going to go back to Decemberof 1988 to cover Tequila Sunrise.
And one of the stars, probablylike the 4th build is Raul Julia.

Yeah, that's right.

Katie (03:57):
The reason I bring that up is because literally later today,
I'm guesting on the Vandammitpodcast covering Street Fighter
with Raul Julia.
I
just thought that was

it's last film, believe it or not.

Katie (04:09):
It was his last theatrical appearance.

And not to spoil that you're talking points on that.
I'm sure they'll bring it up, butI think he did it for his children.
I think he did that film.
So his kids could watchdaddy being the fun film

Katie (04:22):
They were fans of the video game.
So, yep.

Yeah.
Yeah.

Katie (04:26):
So everybody check out that it'll probably be coming out about
the same time this episode does.
All right.
Well, we'll talk more aboutsome of your other projects.
You mentioned Ed's Wickwhich is a very good show.
It's, it's a quality show.
I love how you do it, Ryan.
And he's, you know, he might not bea household name from a director's,
you know, he's not a Scorsese, But Ithink you all might be surprised at

(04:49):
some of the films that he has done.
So it's a fun.
Look back at Ed Zwick films.
I highly recommend y'all check outRyan's Ed Zwick podcast, Zwick's Flicks.
That's a mouthful.

it is a mouthful.
Thank you for that.
And I do another show that I'lljust plug this one other one.
That's a kind of apassion project as well.
It's called the worst of the best podcast,which you've actually guest co hosted
on, I think at least once, if not.
More than once.
I know you did a friends episode with

Katie (05:14):
Mm hmm.

okay.
So basically,
long story short, with this podcast,it's a variety of different topics.
It can be anything from actors,music, actresses, of course,
movies but it's like the best ofsomething and it's a top 10 list.
It could be even conspiracy theory.
So it's the top 10 things that makethat conspiracy theory believable
or not, whatever the topic might be.
We try to keep it fun and light and.

(05:37):
We will then my brother and I, at theend of the episode, we'll just pick
what we think is the worst of thatbest, whatever, whatever the worst song
on a favorite album is the worst filmfrom a top grossing actor, you know,
so what is their worst top grossingfilm that we think is the worst.
It's all.
This is what, yeah, it's all subjective.
That's right.
There's no real science to this.
It's just a, whatever we feel
is the worst for whatever reason.
And the time is recording.

(05:58):
We'll be doing soon we'll bereleased the top grossing.
10 or 15 Google searches of 2024.

Katie (06:04):
Oh, you do that every year, right?

we do that every year, That's our yearly wrap up.
And we're old.
I think if this is, if you canbelieve it, this is our ninth annual
celebrity death episode coming up.
I

Katie (06:13):
You've been doing this for nine years.

know I, every time I think it's too much, I go back and check.
I'm like, yeah, thisis the eighth or ninth.
I think it's the ninth annual.
Celebrity death.
It's our favorite
time of the year where we getto celebrate the the deaths.
I mean, the lives of ourfavorite celebrities.
And we, we think, well, Ryan,how can you pick the worst?
What we do is, is we decide.
Which one is maybe the worst personalityis that where we're kind of, I'm not

(06:37):
really sad that you're dead and thathappens, for example, we've had some
like different leaders of the world
who have

Katie (06:42):
dictators and

the dictator's Yeah, we're not too sad that that person died.
And then or the one thataffected us the worst.
So the one that really stung.
So the one that hurt the most.
Yeah.
Okay.
All right.

Katie (06:52):
Yeah, I like it.
How do you go about choosingaside from your annual ones?
How do you have a running?
Brainstorm spreadsheet or something?

Oh yeah, that's a great question.
So often it will stem from just themusic ones are obvious because there'll
be albums or bands that my co hosts orguest co hosts, my brother and I enjoy.
So it's easy.
Those are easy to do.
They're ironically the most work toget through, cause it just seemed
to take the longest to record,but they're easy to talk about.
Cool.
For top 10 stuff.

(07:20):
I'll sort of just curate Googleand just say top 10 scary movies or
top 10, it was something like that.
I'll, I'll, I'll just have to think ofideas of just sometimes a X video will,
will trigger an idea, things like that.
So that's kind of how it works.

Katie (07:34):
Check it out guys.
And hey if you like Rocky.
Ryan and I get together every otherweek with our other co host Kyle
to talk about the Rocky movies.
And, you know, you might be wondering ifyou're not already listening to the show,
how much is there really to talk about?
But everyone asks me that,Ryan, when they find out I do
a show about the Rocky podcast.

(07:55):
I'm like, well, you'd be surprised.
So each season, you guys, season one wasthe original Rocky, season two, Rocky two.
So we are on season five, aka Rocky five.
And there are, I don't know,20 episodes a season, maybe.

About that.
Yeah, give or take.
Yeah, we have the tendency to talktoo much as people are probably
wondering or seeing now They're go boy.
This guy talks.
So So the episodes take we yeah,we go through the films in order.
It's been a lot of fun I didn'twant to plug that one necessarily
because I think you've plugged it.
I didn't want to seemlike I'm some sort of like

Katie (08:25):
No, no, no, no.

Cause I'm really not anything, but that's
a fun one to do with you.
You were gracious enough to, I invitedyou to be a guest co host when my other
brother did that with me originally,he retired from podcasting as they
say, and you came on with Kyle.
So thank you for, you've been wonderful.
You're the the voice I didn't knowwe needed on the show because.
I, I hate, you know, I'm most afraid tosay a female voice, but like anyways,

(08:48):
but you do identify as a female.
You are a woman, so I can
safely say, I can safely say, it'sbeen nice having that perspective.
It's been a, it's been a new perspectivefor the, for that journey of the film.
So

Katie (08:59):
Yeah.
And if you're not alreadylistening to that.
I don't know what you'redoing with your life.
The it's called one more round,the Rocky series podcast.
Check it out.
Okay.
Without further ado, I do want to dothe time capsule, but a little note.
Katie had a little littleaccident and broke her wrist.
So I am behind on life andall my podcasting and doing

(09:22):
everything with one hand.
And it's more challenging thanI thought it was going to be.
So we're going to do anabbreviated version of the
time capsule because research.
And typing with one hand,
it's difficult.

Wife, as you know,

Katie (09:36):
well, I did think of her.
I did think of her here'ssomething I will say.
How does.
she pull her hair up?

She does.
Maybe I'll have to have her do a videoof how she does this so you can see.
So, as you know, she has her elbow up.
From her left arm.
So she's missing her elbow down.
So she has this part of the elbow,the part where they can bend.
She has that part there.
So she uses that.
She'll she can
actually hold like a measuring cupin there when she does baking and

Katie (10:01):
Kirk of

she'll, she'll actually use that too, to type.
So she'll type with her elbow andher fingers on the right hand.
So you'll see her type like this.
It's

Katie (10:08):
She's learned how to do

Oh yeah.
To her, it's Just like

Katie (10:11):
Mm hmm.

you, she's never not had.
An arm and a half,

Katie (10:15):
Mm hmm.

she's just lived her life that way.
So yeah, she does her hair up.
The only thing she says she can'tdo is tie her shoes and monkey bars.

Katie (10:22):
Yeah, so I, you know, that's the hat.
I can't do much with my hair.
I really struggle not being able to put,I have long hair and I usually put it up
in like a clip when I'm not, whatever.
It's, it's a problem you guys.
So, so anyway.
That's why we're doingan abbreviated version.
My wardrobe is very limited too.
Cause nothing fits over this business.

She's wearing clothes for our

Katie (10:44):
Yeah.
Just like a cape, like a

yeah, like how you say your wardrobe is limited.
She's wearing nothing folks.
She can't put anything on.
So she's new on camera.

Katie (10:52):
Well, so anyway, that's what's going on.
But.
We shall open the timecapsule from December 1988.
Late 80s were great.

Mm

Katie (11:03):
TV was amazing.
I don't think we've actuallyhad a movie from 88 yet.
So I'm going to quickly like for theNielsen ratings for 88 to 89 season.
Number one.
Do you have any guesses what it is, Ryan?
Number one show.
It's a sitcom.

Cheers.

Katie (11:23):
Close.
One more guess.

88 Cosby show.

Katie (11:27):
Cosby Show.
Cosby Show's the number one show.
Number two is Roseanne.

I you know, what's funny you keep talking about Roseanne
on the show and it's a comedy showI think I might have mentioned
one of my guest appearances, butit's just one I never watched.
I

Katie (11:40):
That's so good.

I've seen episodes like I recognize I know Roseanne despite whatever

Katie (11:46):
Mm hmm.

comedic talent and I do
I do like her energy and I do likeher comedy Style is funny enough
But it's just a show at that time.
Keep in mind.
I was a 13 year old boy atthat time and so I was I this
is the idea of watching that.
I don't know what it was It wasn'ta draw to 13 year old ryan, but
you know my age now, I wouldprobably watch enjoy it now for sure

Katie (12:06):
I'm curious why because there's kids in it, and the kids are good in it.
It's just about a family, familydynamics, but a working class family.
And I think that's why it resonated with alot of peoples, because it was they didn't

was very rich.
I
was very rich growing up.

Katie (12:20):
maybe you were just too, too snooty for it.

I would trust you.
I was, Oh no, we were I thinkRoseanne did better than we did.
So I don't know what,you know, what's funny.
It just did not resonate.
I was aware of the show, but I wasnever drawn to it for some reason.
Yeah.

Katie (12:36):
it's one of my favorites.
So I like, you know, number two, 1988.
One that kind of surprises me is thatnumber three is a different world,
which is the Cosby show spinoff.
And I liked that show, but Ididn't realize it was that popular.

Probably that coattail thing of who knows when
it was at the first season maybe

Katie (12:55):
Probably.
Yeah, maybe.

That initial bump, you know from the Cosby show, but then people
like hmm I'm not sure if thisis much it probably didn't last
what did last more than four or
five seasons, you know

Katie (13:06):
it probably was maybe four seasons, probably, maybe yeah, and then Cheers

Yay

Katie (13:13):
and then Big Shocker, the Golden Girls.
It is always in the top 10.

It was just funny.
I watched that.
So there you go.
I would watch the golden girls.
I had no interest in older women asthey would say, but I love, I love the
golden girls, even as a 13 year old or

Katie (13:27):
Everyone liked that show.
Yeah.

that's what
I mean.
So who knows why things are drawn toyou and what other shows aren't, but
yeah, I watched the golden girls.
Yeah.

Katie (13:36):
Also, one of my favorites.
Who's the boss?

Yeah, watch that, of course, because crushing on
Alyssa Milano were the same age.
So totally appropriate age appropriate.
I crushed on her as a teenagerand then I kind of like had
a milk crush on the mother.
I can't help it.
So

Katie (13:50):
Judith Light, the blonde,

it.
yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.

Katie (13:53):
Gilf I think a lot of people digged Doug Mona.

I think it was the whole family as a teenage boy.
It's very easy to crush it.
A lot of different things, but yeah,

Katie (14:04):
Yeah, yeah, I really liked Mona, but I'm, I'm a Tony Macelli man.
I love, I loved Tony Danza, so.

he was a very yeah, I like 22 from taxi that
I watched him on taxi first.
Yeah

Katie (14:15):
And then Murder she Wrote, which you've already mentioned,
you'd done, didn't quite like, butthen Empty Nest was in the top 10
which was the Golden Girls spinoff.
Did you, are you aware of that one?

now where's the show probably saw a couple just because of the
Golden Girls ish, but I never watched it

Katie (14:31):
And then the last couple are anything but Love and Dear John.
Yeah.

John sounds familiar, but no

Katie (14:37):
That's with Judd Hirsch.
Mm-hmm

right Yeah, Judd Hirsch.
Interesting character.
Another taxi Alim?
Alim?
Alim?
He was my least favoritecharacter on Taxi.
I just, he bugged me.
Yeah, I don't know what it is about him.
Dandy feels great.
Of course, Christopher Lloyd was amazing.
Latka you know, they're all fantastic.
Even Tony Danza, the two that Ididn't like the most were Judd

(14:59):
Hirsch and the, the guy who wasplaying the actor in the show.
We'll always try to lookfor an acting good gig.
I forget his name.
But he always wore a jean jacket.

Katie (15:09):
Jeff Conway.

Yeah, I think so.
What, is
that his name?
But he always, he was alwayslooking, he was an out of work actor,

Katie (15:15):
I'm not very familiar.
I'm like watching Taxi now here and there.
I'm not a.
It was way before my

Lou Henner?
Oof.
Man, she's a stunning woman.

Katie (15:23):
Yeah, she is.
All right.
Well, we're going toonly do one billboard.
the number one song
from the week of December 2nd,

just the one
song?

Katie (15:31):
the one song I said, it's just abbreviated.
I did not have time to do my homework.

here.

Katie (15:38):
I have a little bit from each.
So we're, you know, I have onemusic, I have some news and events.
I even have some triviafor the movie, but okay.
December 2nd, 1988.
You're never going to guess what it is.

Give me a genre maybe?

Katie (15:52):
No, you're not going to guess what it is.
I guarantee it.

Oh, come on, don't say, don't

Katie (15:56):
Okay.
Well, if I say the name of thegroup, I, you will have to get it.
Cause I didn't know who the group was.

okay.
Well then give me, are they rock and roll?
R and B?
like
uh, are they, are they like the boy band

Katie (16:11):
soft

boys to men?

Katie (16:14):
No, no.
Almost like Islandy soft rock.
It's probably a yacht rock.
Maybe.

Okay.
Give me the name of the band.
I'll see if I can guess the

Katie (16:24):
Will to power.

Oh, no way.
I

Katie (16:26):
Yeah.
I, I, you know, the song,, everyone knows the song, baby.
I love your way.
Ooh, baby.
I love your

So one hit wonder

Katie (16:36):
every day.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That will to

will to power.
Yeah, you're right.
I know the tune had I will to power.

(17:05):
Okay.
Will to power band.
Okay.
They're an American dancepop group, South Florida.

Katie (17:12):
the tracks, South

that is funny.
they've
had, they've had three albums, threestudio albums, Will to Power in 88,
Journey Home in 1990, and they tooka 14 year hiatus and they released an
album in 2004 called Spirit Warrior.

Katie (17:25):
All right.

That is

Katie (17:27):
Hey, you guys, if you know any other song that they sang
other than baby, I love your wife.
Please let me know.
Oh, also just please reach out.
Generally speaking, I will remindyou at the end of the show, but
email me retro made podcast at gmail.
com.
I would love to hear comments,feedback, questions, whatever

(17:47):
you got to say, good or bad.
For the finale wrap upepisode for season one.
So do that.
All right.
News and events.
Ryan from December of 1988, Benazir
Bhutto is named primeminister of Pakistan.
Why do we care?
You might ask.

(18:08):
She first female leaderof a Muslim country.

wow.

Katie (18:13):
I'm actually really shocked by that

there was a time there was a time.

Katie (18:20):
Night.
I mean, we can't do it in America in 2024.

no.
But I mean, there was a time that.
Those nations were, weren'twhat they are today.

Katie (18:28):
Oh, you're right.
yeah,

are the regime changes and all that good

Katie (18:31):
That's a good point.
They used to be able to wearAmerican clothes and stuff.

If you look at some of the pictures from the seventies of Iran, for
example, you would think it was Florida
and

Katie (18:40):
Good point.

yeah.

Katie (18:43):
Good point.
But

times.

Katie (18:44):
go Pakistan.

Oh, Oh

Katie (18:47):
well, this so the federal grand jury indicts the PTO club
founder and Christian evangelist.
Jim Bakker for fraud after he paidhush money to cover up an alleged rape.
Gee, why does that sound so familiar?

(19:08):
Hush money to cover that up.
Gee,

Well, even worse than that is Yes.
Yeah.
I, I hear what you'resaying and I, I, I agree.
But the even worse is I get reallyI get triggered by the religion

Katie (19:20):
Same.
Yeah.

People taking
money from people who are sufferingpeople who feel like they have to buy
their way to heaven and they believe it.
And I know there's asucker born every minute.
Sometimes I feel likeI was one growing up.
So it kind of, it sucks that.
These people that who's the new one or notthe new one who's the one today was his
name again Joe olstein, is that his name?

Katie (19:39):
Well, yeah, the megachurch do.
I mean, there's a bunch of them.
Scientology is the same way.
Yeah.
I mean,

well, most religion is just this, the coffers are full of the
hard working

Katie (19:47):
If your pastor is rich, there's a problem.

yeah, Jesus, Jesus, the person you, these pastors claim to
worship, let me just, side, quick sidetouch, you know, he was a carpenter's
son, and he literally gave the, the,the shirt off his back for the poor,

Katie (20:03):
Mm hmm.

mingled with them,
and he was never rich,

Katie (20:06):
Mm hmm.

You know, he had the
great story about the woman who gaveher last mite to the donations and the
Sadducees and the Pharisees scoffed ather for her small pittance that she gave.
Jesus scoffed at them and said she gaveall that she had to what have you given?

Katie (20:22):
Mm hmm.
Mm hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Don't even get me started on

want to do a podcast on

Katie (20:28):
Christ, like some, some Christians like Jim Bakker were, you know, you know,
but yeah, that was happening in 1988.
big big

That was big Yeah, that was big news.
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah.
Yeah

Katie (20:40):
then we have a famous death,
Roy Orbison, American rocksinger, songwriter, pretty woman.

Oh, yeah, traveling
Little berries My mother saw Roy.
I think she went whenshe was 14 in concert.

Katie (20:54):
Did she throw her panties at him

Maybe I Think she would have saved that for
George Harrison of the Beatles.
I

Katie (21:02):
Oh, she's a big fan of the George.
Okay.

she told me a quick story of when she saw Oh, what's that
movie they did, hard day's night.
There was a concert film,
whatever She saw in the theater.
She says she saw it, she couldn't hear it.
The whole time, the girls were screaming.
The whole movie, shecouldn't hear the movie.
Because everyone was, every time,Paul comes on the screen and screams.

(21:24):
John comes on the screen and screams.
Every time anyone wouldtalk, they would scream.
So my mom saw The Hardest Day is Nightin the theater, but the theater was
just girls screaming the whole hour.

Katie (21:34):
Just as a side note, the whole Beatlemania business, I don't understand.
'cause they were not attractive at all,
I don't think.

know.
And I would say objectively, Iwouldn't say you're wrong because
beauty is an eye of the beholder.
So you can't be wrong.
It's what you're trying.
But I do see it.
I do, especially those early days,hard days, night days with the boppy
haircuts and they have to shoot ties andmaybe not so much in their hippie days.
But I I do see this, these young lads.
Yeah, it's, it's look, it's hard to argue.

(22:05):
It's hard to argue.
The Beatlemania was a real thing.

Katie (22:07):
No, it was.
It was.
I

funny to see my mom, you know, she, she she crushed on George and
he's my favorite Beatle too, by the way.
So it's
very interesting.

Katie (22:15):
I don't have a favorite beetle.
I, this might seem likesacrilege, but I'm a stones girl.
And so I don't really knowmuch about the beetles.
Like they, I don't love them.
Like I'm like, nah, they're all right.

Yeah.
I mean, I'm not a musical.
Like I can't comment like asa professional I will just
say I love the stones too.
And I'm a bit of a contrarian.
I I was not sure that's not a real word.
I'm What was it when you can like boththings like you could like coke and pepsi?
What do they call that likeyou're bipartisan or you're

Katie (22:47):
I don't know.
I don't know what

What's the term?
What's the term?
Yeah, i'm one of those
people like I like Well, no, I justi'm not one of those people to me.
I Like sega and nintendo.
I Like coke and pepsi.
I've always found youdon't have to choose.
You can just like vanillachocolate and strawberry Life is

Katie (23:03):
can.
Yeah,

yeah,

Katie (23:04):
you can.
You can.
Yeah, well, so Roy Orbisonwas only 52 when he died.
It was a massive heart attack.
52.

That's so

Katie (23:14):
It is young.

That's only three years older than
I am

Katie (23:16):
Mm hmm.
All right, that's what I gotfor the time capsule, you guys.
Like I said, it's abbreviated, so we havemore time to talk about Tequila Sunrise.

Fair enough.
But I was, I was, I was looking forwardto the time capsule, but you're out.
I'll take your accident.
That's fine.
It's not your fault.

Katie (23:34):
Well, if you have other memories, Specific memories of things from 1988.
You are

I was relied on you.
I'm not even,
I listened to your show.
That's
the thing is because I
listened to your show as like,Oh, Katie's going to break it out.
The worry about nothing.
She's like the constant professional.
I was like, Oh, you broke your wrist.
All

Katie (23:51):
Except for today.

No, I'm excited to talk about the film.
Anyways, that's good.

Katie (23:56):
All right, let's get into tequila sunrise
, December 2nd, 1988 rated R.
It's almost two hours.

Yeah.

Katie (24:10):
6.
0 out of 10 so if people haven'tseen Tequila Sunrise, as I hadn't,
have you seen it, Ryan?

No.
And when you gave me the choices of filmsto pick for this season, I picked one.
I picked next to Ken with PatrickSwayze for the, for the sole purpose.
Cause I hadn't seen it.
It does say it forced me, butthere's films in our life.
We talked offline that we justdon't get around to seeing.
So it forced me, you know, nowI get to watch next to Ken.
Never seen it before with Patrick Swayze.
Yeah.
I, of course, see Big TroubleLittle China, that was, but I

(24:40):
hadn't watched in quite some time.
But yeah, I had not seen Tequila Sunrise.
It's been one of those films whereit's like, Hey, it's got Mel Gibson
and Kurt Russell and Michelle Pfeiffer.
My goodness, why haven't I seen this?
So I picked it so I could
watch it for, with you andtalk about it with you.
Absolutely.
My

Katie (24:55):
Mm hmm.
Well, if like Ryan and I, you guys haven'tseen it, or if it's been a minute, It is
about, Dale Mac Mcuthick is an unlikelydrug dealer who wants to go straight.
His old and best friend, Nick Freesia,is now a cop who is assigned to
investigate and bring him to justice.
Mac is very attracted to Joanne,the owner of a stylish restaurant.

(25:19):
Nick gets close to Joanne, attemptingto know more about Mac's drug
dealing plans and his connectionswith the Mexican dealer, Carlos.
Who the police believe iscoming to town to meet with him.
Nick also falls for Joanne's charms andhis friendship with Mac is in danger.
Tequila Sunrise.

Good summary.
Were you confused at all bythe plot or am I just dumb?
Don't answer that.
Let me rephrase that.
Let me rephrase, let merephrase the question.
You know, it's funny cause I, I don'tconsider myself an unintelligent person
and I don't consider myself a simpletonwhen it comes to watching films.
I really don't.
I watched a lot of very high hand dramason TV, intelligent films or TV that I

(26:02):
think are, you know, intelligent writing.
I had a little bit of a hard time.
I went in cold, never sawa trailer, didn't read a
synopsis, so I, I went in cold
so when the opening scene starts offwith Mel Gibson's character you know,
in the middle of a, kind of a, a drugnegotiation deal, whatever, and Kurt
Russell's character comes in playingthe cop, and do they not know each

(26:23):
other, and so I think after 15, 20minutes, I'm like, oh, I'm going to
read the synopsis just a little bit.
Cause I'm, I feel like I'mbehind the ball a little bit.
I think, I think it's almost like we'resupposed to know that before we started
the show, I think that the trailersmade trailers probably gave it away.
I don't know.
I found myself a littlebit, a little bit confused.
I felt like.

(26:45):
I mean, I followed the story, but at thesame time, there was some, and I wasn't
alone on this, even some big critics likeRoger Deeber and other people that was
one of the criticisms about the film.
Maybe one of the reasons why itwas a low rating that is almost
too intelligent for its own good.
So it was like, it's Robert town like,yes, you're a good writer and storyteller,
but maybe not say dumb it down.

(27:06):
But I felt like it was a rushedplot or maybe some things didn't
have to there's so much going on ina two hour film, I guess is what's

Katie (27:12):
I think it's one of those movies where there are things happening
behind, you know, there's little,little side things that are happening
that upon a second or third watch.
It's maybe one of those movieswhere, yeah, it's so it's
like Mel Gibson's character.
Mac, we kind of learned thathe and Kurt are friends or okay.

(27:35):
I have a problem with this.
So Kurt is detectiveLieutenant Nick Freesia.
Mel Gibson is Dale Mac McCusick.
Michelle Pfeiffer is Joanne.

So remember, Mel is Mick.
I'm sorry, Mel is Mac, Kurt is Nick.

Katie (27:52):
Mac and Nick Mac and Nick.
So we learn through a series of.
Events and little things that theyhave been friends for a long time.
There was a male ended up Macended up in a Mexican prison for
10 years because he got caught.
I don't know if it was like,smoking weed or had we there.

(28:13):
They live on the beach.
Mac lives on the beach.
So when they were kids, Nick just gotlucky and wasn't there when the cops

He said he was swimming in the ocean or something like that.
He happened to be likeswimming in the ocean when
the cops showed up, so he lucked out.
But it doesn't sound like Nick wasnecessarily innocent in their past.
It's just Mac got caught.

Katie (28:31):
Right.
And then Matt kind ofcontinued down that line.
He met this Carlos who, took himunder his wing or helped save his life
while he was in this Mexican prison.
So then he's kind of been workingwith Carlos who's in Mexico.
And the cops the agent played by J.
T.
Walsh, how McGuire so there there'sall this surveillance happening.

(28:54):
They're trying to figure out when,because they want to get Carlos.
That's that's their target, and theythink that mac is going to host him for
a party or just a visit or something.
And so there's all the surveillance.
And then Nick is kind of trying to, heknows that his friend is in the Coke
business, but it's kind of a weird deal.
He knows it.

(29:15):
And towards the end, he'slike, I got to arrest you.
Or, you know, at first hekind of lets him go because.
He knows they don't have enoughto make the charges stick.
Yeah, the opening scene was a littleconfusing with that by with his
lawyer, like his lawyer was tryingto sell the drugs, but then he put,

going to teach him.
how to sell it apparentlyproperly or something like that.

Katie (29:35):
but what was the deal with him putting one of the kilos like
in the toilet at the beginning?
And then he goes in the bathroomto get it before he leaves.
What was that about?

It's like he was effing over his lawyer a little
bit because here's a, Oh, okay.
I have a theory.
I just can't do me now.
So it was clever.
He put it in the toilet.
I think either a, he knew this drugbus was going to go down, that he
was going to get busted doing drugs.
So what happened was, is whenthey went, the cops played by Kurt
went to go look at his briefcase.

(30:05):
It was empty.
There's no drugs.
Mel's

Katie (30:08):
was just one kilo.
I assumed there was more

I think, I think he took it all.
I think he took the whole package.
So the lawyer, so he saved his lawyer.
Cause there's nothing there.
So when he goes, I justhave to go take a pee.
But that's why he put it in the toiletwas so if anyone walked in to use
the bathroom, they wouldn't see it.
He says, Hey, I just have touse the washroom before I leave.
I'll let you guys to itwalks out with the drugs.
And that was lawyers.
Now, we don't know what happenedto those drugs that he took.

(30:30):
I don't know.
I can't remember if something was saidabout it, but I think it was a way of
showing you that he's not a bad guy.
He saved his lawyer.
He saved it because he said it was tryingto teach him how to do it properly or
not get himself in trouble or somethingto that effect because we don't really
see the lawyer again or something.
I don't know if I can't

Katie (30:44):
He's at the restaurant later because it's the
Michelle Pfeiffer's character.
It's her lawyer.
Also, they share the same lawyer.

this is Okay.
See, yeah.
Okay.
Fair enough.
Okay.

Katie (30:55):
So let's talk about some of the cast members.
So that, that, as we're talking aboutthe movie, it makes a little more sense.
So you brought up Robert town, whois the both the director and writer.
He is not,
he doesn't direct much.
This is maybe 1 of his only directorialJobs, but he has a ton of like he's
a pretty prolific writer, includingChinatown days of thunder, the

(31:19):
firm mission impossible 1 and 2.
So we must have a thing with Tom Cruise.

Sure.

Katie (31:24):
Potentially.
So that's who the writer and director is.
We talked about Mel Gibson, MichellePfeiffer, Kurt Russell, and then
Raul Julia, who I'm a huge fan of.
I think he elevates everything he's in.
I just love him.
He plays Comandante Xavier Escalante.
And then, spoiler alert, SoEscalante he's been working for

(31:48):
the last 8 years with our agent.
He's a Mexican come onDante working with J.
T.
Walsh's character.
Who's the agent in America?
So somehow they've been workingtogether to catch this Carlos.
Right?
Is that how you

Yeah.
Yeah.
It's yeah.
So I, did you get the bigreveal that he was Carlos before

Katie (32:09):
Totally.
Did you?

I have something to confess.
It's not because I looked up the plot.
I looked up who was in thefilm and I saw that Royal Julia
was credited as two people.
So I was like,

Katie (32:20):
Oh, I didn't.
I didn't because on IMDB, it,it doesn't say that he's Carlos.
It just says that he's Escalante.
Okay.

So I looked at the cast of Wikipedia, and I didn't,
wasn't looking for spoilers.
I was just seeing, you know, becausethere's a couple of actors that came up.
It's like, oh, that person looks familiar.
So I looked them up on Wikipedia.
So when I got to role Julia's role, Isaw, I knew, I, I was actually pretty
certain that he actually played Carlos.
But then I saw that he was likethis, you know, police officer title.
And I'm like, so he's Mexican police?
What?

(32:49):
So either, so I knew either he's So,you know, what happened was the problem
with that knowledge was, I didn't knowthe reveal was going to be the way
it was going to be at the very least.
I didn't know how it was going to reveal.
So when he, when he showed himselfto be the police officer, then I
recognize, okay, he's going to,
I thought how they were going to doit was maybe this would have been

(33:09):
a better film that this is where mybrain went and see if he can follow me.
So me knowing that he plays twocharacters and, and Mack played by Mel
is in cahoots and talking to Carlos.
I thought it was going to be revealedthat Carlos was a cop and Mack was
playing with the cops all along.
And then he was.
Helping all along the big revealat the end was going to be that.

(33:30):
Yes.
Kurt Russell's character.
It looked like I was doing bad things.
It looked like I was still, you know,JT Walsh's character still fought flying
around, but it turns out I've been helpingthe Mexican government the whole time.
That's why I got out of jail early.
Cause I've been helpingthem the whole time.
Ta da.
Carlos is really an undercover cop.

Katie (33:46):
Hmm.
I can see that.
I didn't know.
So I knew that Raul Julia was in thisand I saw that he was playing this
Escalante, but then when I'm watchingthe movie and they keep talking about
Carlos, I'm like, Oh, so at first Iwas like, Oh shoot, I assumed that
Raul Julia was going to be Carlos.
And even when, when Mel's characterMac is on a pay phone, 1988, a

(34:10):
pay phone talking to Carlos, youcan hear Carlos talking to him.
And it's very clear.
Like, I was like, that'sRaul Julia's voice.

Oh, wow.
Wow.
You caught that from that.
See, that's what I mean.
I thought, okay, they're just
gonna, he's gonna reveal thatthey're good all this time.
But I mean,
the ending was fine in itself.
But I, I don't want tosay I like my idea better.
I was, I don't know.
I, I just thought that wouldhave been a good pull to have.
It's almost like, yeah, thecop being the bad guy, I guess.
I don't know.
It might have been a more of a heroicending for Mel's character that he ended

(34:41):
up just being, The good guy all along.
Like we were tricked by the audiencewas tricked thinking, Oh, he's
still getting himself in trouble.

Katie (34:48):
no, I don't hate the way that it is.
It is a little convoluted, but it'sdifferent in that we now have, it's
a long con in that as Escalante,he's like a policeman in Mexico.
He's been working for eightyears trying to catch himself.

(35:09):
So this allows him to alwaysknow what they're doing.
You know, he can be Carlos always knowingwhat the police are doing and planning,

Yeah,

Katie (35:17):
know, I mean, I guess that that was kind of cool.

Oh,

Katie (35:22):
then, as we mentioned, the uh, agent played by J.
T.
Walsh, he has been inseveral movies with Kurt.
I want to say 4, and Ican't think of the 4th one.
So this breakdown back draft,and I think maybe 1 more.
That I'm forgetting about, but they'vebeen in several movies together
and we've covered all of those.
You guys listen to those

that's weird.
He's a great actor.
He was with the Tom Cruise.
He was with the Tom Cruise, of course.
And a few good men.

Katie (35:50):
I haven't seen that movie in a very long time.
I think I need to give it a rewatch.
Yeah.

need to give her a fantastic film.
Before, are we done with Robert Townsend?
There's one thing I want to say

Katie (35:59):
No, go ahead.
Yeah,

Well, just speaking of the worst of the best podcast, he's one
of our celebrities who died this year.
Yay.

Katie (36:05):
he did

Yeah.
He died
July 1st, 2024

Katie (36:09):
old age or okay.

So I was, I mean,
who knows what the, I mean, Icould look it up here, but what,
what, what eventually killed him?
Yeah.
What

Katie (36:19):
But it wasn't like he was 50.
Yeah.

was, was it suicide?
This says here he died at his home.
This, so there you

Katie (36:26):
yeah, Okay.

yeah,
that's probably the best.
I mean, if you're going to go, go athome while you got your socks on in bed.

Katie (36:35):
Oh yeah.
Dying, like in your sleep.
Yeah, that's the

Oh, it's
absolutely dying your sleepwith a fire around you.
That's the best way to go.
No,
a little dark humor.

Katie (36:44):
We talked about the lawyer.
His name in the movie is Andy Leonard.

Yeah.

Katie (36:50):
played by I don't know how to pronounce it.
Are gross.
A R Y E.
How, how do you, howdo you pronounce that?

Oh, airy.
Probably Ari, Ari.

Katie (36:59):
Are we okay.

Yeah.

Katie (37:02):
Apologies that I'm mispronouncing your name, Mr.
Gross, but he is extremely familiar.
Did you recognize him from anything?

Yeah, he, I'm just looking at his credentials right now.
He's got one of those faceslike, hey, you're that guy

Katie (37:14):
He does have one of those faces.

But that's the best face to have, I've, I've said it before.
Be that guy.
He's got hundreds of credits,
hundreds.
So he's a working
actor.
He's, you know, he'sdone films up to 2019.
He's done TV shows up until 2022.
He maybe he's retired now.
He's 64 now, but that's a whole lifeof just filming TV and he can just
go to the grocery store and hedoesn't have to be bothered by anyone

Katie (37:37):
Mm hmm.
He has a look to him and it wasbothering me the whole time.
I'm like, Oh, what do I know him from?
what do I know him from?
Well,

he's been in friends.
Right.
I

Katie (37:45):
he was in and yes, he was in one episode of friends.
And I think it's either whenRachel's trying to get back at Ross.
So she goes on a date with somebody.
His name is Michael.
She goes on a date with himand it's a horrible date.
Or.
It's when Monica and her other cheffriend both sleep with this guy.
I think it's that one.

(38:06):
Maybe his name is Michael and the wayhe gets women to sleep with him is he
pretends to be impotent and then thewomen think that they cured him of it.
He's

I gotta, I gotta try that.

Katie (38:17):
yeah,

Oh, wait, I'm married.
Okay,

Katie (38:20):
you're like, wait a minute.
Yeah.
So, so both of those, they'relike, Oh, I take credit like the
Monica finds out that her like souschef is like, Oh, I take credit

remember that episode funny enough.
I've seen that, you know,I've seen that series.
No joke.
Three times all the way through.
In order.
uh, my, I, do enjoy it.
I do enjoy it.
I
have a huge, don't even get me started.
I have a huge crush on Monica.
I just, she is so gorgeous in that

Katie (38:43):
She is.
She is.
And I think she has theprettiest face also.

I think she's just a hot objectified

Katie (38:49):
yeah,

time.
Ding, ding, ding,
ding.
I think she's the bothbody and face and hair.
She's way hotter than I don't understand.
Whatever.
I
think Phoebe is hotter than

Katie (39:00):
Phoebe's gorgeous.
Her face like the way her eyes.
Yeah, she's Lisa Kudrow is

I know.
She's kind of dressed down.
So does or

Katie (39:08):
They have her being kooky.

cooking weird on the show.
But objectively, I think she'sprettier than anyways, whatever.
It doesn't

Katie (39:14):
Yeah.
You got to see.
Have you seen Romy and Michelle's high

Yeah, of course.
That's on theaters.

Katie (39:18):
She's gorgeous in it.
yeah well, he also, so, yeah, 1 episodeof friends and then this re gross was a
regular 1 of the main characters in thesitcom Ellen from the early to mid 90s.

Okay,
he's a

Katie (39:33):
name in that show is Adam.
He was a regular on

Okay, there you go.
So that.
was his, if you're a regular into sitcom,that's you, that's your easy street.
You've made whatever you need to makeand everything else is just gravy.

Katie (39:44):
Mm hmm.

good for him.
Okay.

Katie (39:47):
And then Mac has this cousin named Greg Lindroff in the movie.
He, I think it appears as though he liveswith him in this beach house and spoiler
alert, he turns out to be an informant.
And , you see hints of it again,there's little things that I think upon
a second watch, the movie would maybecome together a little bit better,

(40:09):
but there's a lot to keep track of.
And we'll, we'll get into that a littlebit, but just to round out the cast
this cousin is played by Arliss Howard.
He played private cowboyin full metal jacket.
And then we talked about him on RetroMadebecause he played Virgil in To Wong Fu,
Thanks for Everything, Julie Newmar.

Interesting.

Katie (40:30):
Mm hmm.

Okay.
And he
also had, I thought Irecognized him as well.
I watched the show, true blood.
He had the he was part of season six, hismain cast and near the end of the series.
So that's probably where my face, likemy brain, like I've seen that face.
But yeah, he's been in other stuff aswell, but that's, that was a show that I
watched back in the day when I was on, so

Katie (40:47):
Mm hmm.

recognized that you've seen that face
before.
So I had to look it up with that.
Yep.
There it

Katie (40:51):
I haven't seen that one.

Yeah.
True blood was good.
It was good.
I enjoyed it.

Katie (40:56):
The music was done by David Grusin, and I didn't note a whole,
are you familiar with David Grusin?

No, are we the one to blame for the saxophone?
Is that his

Katie (41:06):
Maybe
there's some very typical

Oh my gosh.

Katie (41:11):
get it on music and yeah, jazzy saxophone stuff.
And then

he's an Academy Award nominee

Katie (41:18):
for which movie?

original score for Heaven Can Wait

Katie (41:21):
Mm hmm.

that in 1979
then again in 1980 for The Champ.

Katie (41:26):
Ooh, the champ is phenomenal.

have to see it.
Then in 82 for Golden Pond.
Then in 1990 for Fabulous BakerBoys, Michelle Pfeiffer Havana
at 91 and The Firm with Tom Cruzand Robert Towne as the writer in

Katie (41:42):
Okay.
They're

guy has been nominated.

Katie (41:44):
They're a team.
Yeah.
Thank you for that.
Because usually I do some researchon the composer and I didn't

And he's actually a winner.
There you go.
I should have said he actually did win
from a movie called, he won, I swear for amovie to win the score, not hear the film.
89s, the Milo Grow Beanfield Award.
Milagro, Milagro, the Milagro Beanfield

Katie (42:06):
foreign film?
I've never heard of it.

It's directed by Robert Redford,

Katie (42:10):
Hmm.
Interesting.
Interesting.

but it
seems like a star in a cast.
I mean, Mellie Griffith is init, but she's like mid cast.
Christopher Walken's in it.
But the first couple ofnames like Ruben Blades,
I don't know who that is.
So it, it is weird.
Isn't that
weird?
What a weird thing.
Yeah.
But he wanted to kindof more for that score.
Robert Redford is just, there'ssomebody we could tackle one day.

(42:33):
Oh, these six degrees.
I enjoy it.

Katie (42:35):
It is fun.
This movie did tequila.
Sunrise is what I mean by thismovie was nominated for an Academy
Award for our best cinematography.
Conrad L.
Hall did the cinematography.

Interesting.
That would

Katie (42:50):
What did you think about it?

be so one best.
So it won

Katie (42:55):
No, it was nominated

Okay.
Nominee.
Oh, that's fair.
There was one scene in particularwhere I could see maybe that was
a scene that got it nominated waswhen Curt and Mel got nominated.
We're talking,

Katie (43:08):
on the swings.

on the swings.
It was a sunset, but it's too bad.
They couldn't get a sunrise because itwould have been perfect, but it was a
sunset because the sun was going lowerinto the mountains, but very cool shot.
I mean, that was no CGI, no blue screen.
That was just like, Hey,we got the sun setting.
You're sitting on the swings at thebeach and the mountains over there.
And they use that natural.
So they're just silhouetted black andthe dialogue was following the mouse.

(43:32):
You could see the current, when youwould talk and move as I, so there was
obviously post ADR, I would assume,but they nailed the either way.
They nailed the dialogue with themouth movements that were silhouetted.
So it was a very good shot.

Katie (43:44):
That I agree.
I, I, took note of that shot aswell, but there was one shot that I
took note of for a negative reason.
The hot tub scene.

Oh Yeah.
Did you get the trivia on that?

Katie (43:56):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, well, okay.
You guys, there's a scene where Macand Joanne are in the hot tub together.
And you know, they're.
Developing a love for each otherand they start, you know, getting
it on and then there's like a steam.
It's very steamy.
There's that cheesy jazz going on evenlike the surveillance people are watching

(44:20):
it and they're like, loosening their tie.
It's we're supposed

so corny

Katie (44:25):
that.
hot.
I don't think it was that.

love scene

Katie (44:28):
But here's what I took note of.
I jumped back because theylike jump like violently out
of the water at a certain point.
Did

ramble come out though is like ramble coming out of the water in
part two and he's killing the V to me He's
like
he's like
Yeah, I don't get the Idon't get the love scene.
I don't I don't get the love makingaspect of this It's look I'm not
if you want to I don't care wherepeople make love but water and sex I
don't It's a, it's a different, thewhole coitus in the hot tub thing.

(45:01):
It's not appealing to me.

Katie (45:03):
also, it's gross.

yeah, well,
that's what I

Katie (45:05):
you'll get a UTI.

And I'll let you share the trivia cause you, you do have it.
And I assumed you would, but it just, itlooked uncomfortable and it was really
uncomfortable and it looked uncomfortable.
It doesn't, it's notthat it's not that sexy.
I think they think it lookssexy cause they're wet.
And they're glistening.
So I think aesthetically we're supposedto think, and the other thing I don't like
is when you have this classical people arelistening in on it, you know, there's, you

(45:31):
know, the cops are listening in and out.
Are they really turned on?
Like me listening to people have sex,like just the audio version of it.
Yeah you know, whatever it is, like.
Why would I be and then I'm notturned on with other guys around me.
It's a weird.
It's not that hot andheavy I think it's a holy.
Oh boy this let me go in the heavenonce I want to hear it I don't know.

Katie (45:51):
I thought they had video on them too.

definitely audio because they're asking for the half I think
it was maybe you're right there wasbut I don't think it's see through the
canvas and stuff I meanthe hot tub was private.
There was a

Katie (46:02):
I guess, yeah, for some reason I thought there was video also because
they were like, is she gonna leave?
Is she gonna leave?
And no, she doesn't.
They did start in the hot tub andthen ended like on the deck of it.
That's where they actually had sex.
And, you know, she's a beautifulwoman, so I can see them being
like, Oh, if they could see

If they can see sure, but the whole, look, I, I never understood.
Cause I hear, look, I I'm old.
I hear about, you hear,like I hear podcast stuff.
People say, yeah, you know, my,my old man had this VHS tape.
And me and my friends would watch it.
And I don't, I don't, I don't get insharing adult stuff with other people.
It's a,

Katie (46:40):
well, no, you wouldn't, you wouldn't want to watch porn
with people.

No, that's what I'm saying.
But you know what I'm
saying.
But that's what they were acting like.
I understand there wasno internet back then.
So maybe this is

Katie (46:50):
Yeah, this

It's like a live cam for them, so

Katie (46:53):
it was.

but it's not that I guess like you guys are also adults,
settle down, you know, what sex is
But it's for the audience.
It's supposed to be, it's because it'slike, it's a steamy scene, but now it's

Katie (47:06):
literal steam literal

literal steam.
And now, but it's a little bitof comedy as well for for us.

Katie (47:11):
It was very strange.
They shot out of the water.

it
was actually, no, it was ahorrible, it was horribly shot.
You're right.
It's horrible lighting.
Not very well shot.
So cinematography wise, this was like,I've seen a few love scenes in movies,
like Top Gun's a good one that comesto mind where it's like, kind of like,
it's very like, Ooh, I feel a littlebit uncomfortable watching this with
my kids, but you know, like it's a,but it, cause it's not gratuitous,
like I don't, you don't need, I don't,Actually, I'm not, I don't, I'm going

(47:39):
to show my cards here a little bit.
I don't need sex scenes in films,but when they're there, it's okay.
They're passionate.
I get it.
Like it's okay.
I don't need gratuitous nestor five minutes long either.
But.
I get that they were hotand heavy for each other.
There's nothing wrong with this scene.
There was nothing really gratuitous in it.
It was just, it just seemed awkward.
It just seemed it was filmed awkwardly.

(48:00):
And I think the actors had an awkwardexperience, if I recall correctly.

Katie (48:04):
Yes.
So the hot tub was not builtproperly or chlorinated.
So Michelle Pfeiffer and her double andMel Gibson got skin rashes and splinters
from the wood production shut down fora few days, actually, while Michelle
Pfeiffer recovered from her rash.
Gross.

From the wood, you say?

Katie (48:28):
We're like, what's that rash from if there wasn't because
I can see if it was like overlychlorinated the chemicals, but why
would you get a rash from just water.

I don't know if it's from the water.
It could just be from, from theactual the rubbing on the wood on

Katie (48:40):
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah.

So it's like a, like a rug burn, but On the wood.
Yeah.

Katie (48:47):
Actually, since we were talking about friends, I will bring
up this little piece of trivia.
I missed it.
I didn't take note of it, butapparently in 1 scene, Matt LeBlanc.
Appears on the TV in a commercial,which actually was a real
commercial for Heinz ketchup.
Did you see it?

I, I, I missed the, I missed looking at the commercial.
I just recognized the TV's on,but yeah, what a weird connection
that there's Matt LeBlanc goingto be a famous actor one day.
That's funny.
Yeah,

Katie (49:17):
of just the 10 of us.
He plays like a football player thatWendy, 1 of the daughters states.
Yeah,

Yeah,

Katie (49:24):
and I remember, you know, being a kid at that time
being like, oh, he's cute.

joy.
Yeah.

Katie (49:31):
But Joey's not really that

who's your, okay.
So really quickly, you might'vealready answered this when you
guessed it on my show, but ofthe three guys all in their prime
and they're older care,no, you have, okay.
Stop.
Here you go.
Here, who's your F Mary kill for the three

Katie (49:45):
Well, speaking of which I did that.
I did friends for F Marykill on Scott's show.
And I think I did do FJoey before he got fat.
Like when, when, you know, earlieron when he was still kind of a,

That's why I said prime.
That's why I said prime.
All of them in their prime.

Katie (50:02):
when early Joey, I guess.
Yeah.

F him.
Okay, then Mary.

Katie (50:10):
Oh, I got to kill one.

Yeah.
That's F Mary.
Kill.

Katie (50:13):
I guess.
I guess I would marryChandler and kill Ross.

Wow.
Kill Ross, eh.
Oh, poor.
But that's terrible.
'cause now I'm
married to Monica and we're gonnahave to, we're gonna have to go to
his funeral hole because of you,

Katie (50:24):
Yeah.

Monica?
Yep.

Katie (50:27):
oh, for sure.
Who would you kill?
And,

would marry Monica.
I would F Phoebe because I thinkshe'd be the funnest in bed.
And then I'd kill Rachel just out of
spite for everyone

Katie (50:36):
no, I, I, I support this a hundred percent.
And there's even an episodewhere Phoebe says something like
when she's trying to fake seduceChandler and she's, I'm very bendy.

Okay.
All

Katie (50:52):
All right.
This movie did make money.
It had a budget of $23million and it grossed 106.
Were you surprised by that?

yes and no.
Okay.
So the rating on IMDB doesn't surprise me.
And then the box office isn'tsurprised because of who's in it.

Katie (51:09):
True?
Mm-hmm

People went
to the, you got to keep inmind, this was during the
time of movies where people wentto the films because of the actors.
I was, I was a part of this.
So that's why even as a
kid, I remember when this moviecame out, I was 13, but I was
watching Mad Max lethal weapon.
So I'm like very awareof Mel and I like Mel.
So I'm like, but there's a reasonwhy I, and I like Kurt Russell.
I'd watched, you know, ofcourse, carousel films.

(51:32):
I was aware of carousel and love carouselback as a teenager, but this was a film
that even back then, I kind of knew asa teenage boy that it wasn't the weapon.
It wasn't Mad Max.
It was, I could tell it was a.
Film the war drama love triangle.
It's like, I probably saw a trailer on TV.

(51:53):
I'm like, eh, like itdoesn't appeal to me.
It seems too adulty.
Like even I would be like, they'retrying to be, it's skipped my
I probably just kept picking adifferent movie off blockbuster shelf.
And the years go on, the years go on.
I'm like,

Katie (52:07):
Yep.
Yep.

this long.
So I've seen almost every MelGibson and Kurt Russell film.
But this, like I said, this is one that.
Funny enough, they're both in it, and itwasn't enough of a draw for a teenage boy
to watch, but I can see why my parentsprobably went and saw it in the theaters.

Katie (52:22):
Mm-hmm . So, yeah, I never saw it either.
The name of the movie is notdescriptive of what it's about at
all, so, you know, I What's that?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's, and Mel drinks thatdrink in the, you know.
Yeah.
I mean, I guess like they play onsunrise, like the beach sunrise,

Yeah, but they, I mean, that whole
scene should have been a sunrise.
I don't know, anyways, whatever.

Katie (52:51):
so IMDb has it with six categories of movie.
I think this is part of why we didn't.
They say it is a dark comedy, drug crime,crime, drama, romance, and thriller.
Usually it's like two orthree categories in a movie.
So this, it's just it is alittle all over the place.

(53:13):
But it did still get a six,which that's pretty decent.

Are we going to talk about the main cast?
I mean, I don't have to, becauseI've got things I want to say.
And I

Katie (53:23):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

the, well, this ties
into why.
So I think for me, the score isvalid in that the cast was great.
I don't think it was thebest script in the world.
I think Robert Towne, I think hethinks he's making another Chinatown.
I think he,

Katie (53:39):
Mm

everyone can be, Not everyone can be,
Quentin Tarantino.
He's one of my favorite director writers.
I'm sorry.
Like every time he writes a filmHoly crap, this guy knows how to
write a fricking dialogue and knowshow to write films, I think Robert
Towne would like to think he could be
a QT and he's just not, I think hewrote a really good film, Chinatown.
I don't know if it wasever quite revisited.
I
don't.
So I think, I think hethinks it's a smart film.
And then the actors got to workwith the guy that, you know,

(54:02):
gave Jack Nicholson in Chinatown.
So they got to work with Robert Towne.
It's like back then that was likethe Quentin Tarantino of the day.
So they're like, Hey, we get to work
with this smart writer,intelligent writer.
And the script does seem intelligent.
Like it doesn't seem like onpaper probably sounds smart and
the actors brought their a game.
Nobody dialed it in.
Mel was very Mel.

(54:23):
Michelle was very Michelle and Kurt wasvery Kurt and they did all the things that
I like that they do as actors.
They did it in this film.
Nobody quote unquote dialed in.
I don't think anyone showedup and said Oh, I liked what I
saw with what they were given.
And so that's your six.
I think.
To me, the movie was, the plotwas kind of cliche and boring.
It's like Fox and the hound, youknow, in that he got a criminal and

(54:47):
a cop who are friends that come on.
I mean, I don't know if he invented thattrope, but that's a trope the law, but
they're friends and they're conflicted.
And then we have a love triangle.
Ooh, that's never been done before.
I don't know.
And, and look, it's anotherdrug movie from the eighties.
And so all these thingswere like, Oh, the.
The storylines had either been donebefore in other films and TV and done

(55:10):
better, but then you have a actors intheir prime delivering these things.
You're like, okay, well, it's watchablebecause it's them and the other actors.
I would have turned it off.

Katie (55:21):
Yeah, I think I would agree with that.
I think it had high,

Oh, it looks

Katie (55:28):
there was something there.
There was something there.
And even, you know, I, I think I differfrom you in that there was a lot of
different plots kind of that he triedto marry and bring together and, you
know, Different components of a movie,like you said, the love triangle,
the reveals, there's like a couple ofdifferent surprise reveals like that.

(55:48):
The cousin is the informant thatRaul Julia is that the, the Mexican
commandante is actually the bad guy.
And then it's sort of like, well.
Is Michelle Pfeiffer in on this?
Does she know?
Does she not know?
Does Kurt really like her?
Or is he just pretending?
Because that's a whole thingthroughout the movie too, that

(56:10):
she's trying to determine.
Whether he really likes her or not.
P.
S.
How fun for Michelle Pfeifferto get to, have fun.
With both Kurt Russell and Mel Gibson, Iam not a fan of Mel Gibson, but I think
he probably looks his best in this movie.
He looked very normal.

No, this is not a, this is not a criticism.
This is, I'm going to ask a question.
It's not meant to be like, honestly,but let me ask the question.
You don't know anything about Meloutside of movies that you see on screen.
Okay.
So how do you think he did in this film?
Or how would you grade Mel as an actor?

Katie (56:50):
Based on this movie?

Just, well, maybe just generally, now
we're talking about the actors.
I think, I find these parts fascinating,just talking about the actors as

Katie (56:57):
Yeah, I guess even before he had scandal, I did not care about Mel at all.
I actually criticize people for saying,you know, cause he was sexiest man
alive for people and, you know, a TV,they would be like, oh, Mel's, but I
never thought he was attractive at all.
Like at all,

No, it's interesting to hear a woman's, again, a female
woman's perspective as a, as a youngman I would say this about Mel, I've
enjoyed his films and of course, whenall this stuff came out, it's always,
it's always disheartening becauseyou're like, ah, man, it's always
disheartening because there's a partof you where you've received enjoyment
from a movie star or a musician andthen some scandal comes out or some

(57:35):
like not flattering stuff comes out.
You're like, you're conflicted becauseit's like, oh, the art was fine.
Do I not enjoy now?
Do I not like the patriot anymore?
Do I not like so or you know Do Inot like those things braveheart?
Do I not like that anymore?
So the all that being said, Watchingmel is an interesting character.
I would say He is definitely somebodyI have seen films because it's tough.

(57:58):
I think he's one of these, what I'mtrying to say here is that I've seen
a lot of his films, but he's notlike a Stallone for me in the sense.
I've literally have a Sloan's comewith a new film when I was a teenager.
Like I've got to go see it.
I even saw a stopper on my mobile shoot.
I saw that in the theaters.
Why?
Cause Stallone was like, I was a Stallone
nut.
If he was, If he was in it, I saw thefilm in the theaters, but then Mel's
an interesting character where I'llgive him, he's a hundred percent.

(58:22):
You can almost put Tom Cruise in thesame category because on screen Mel
Gazit is all whether you like it or not.
And he's 100 percent an actor's actorin that he does his melisms and either
you like those or you don't on screen.
Tom's the same way.
Tom brings his Tominessto all of his films.
Either you like that or you don't,
because when it comes to acting, these
guys laid on the film, that's,that's kind of who they are.

(58:44):
So there's parts in this film too,where he's just very, I forget the
name Riggs from the lethal weapon
films.
You could see, but that's his Mel.
And, but I've seen this with, it'snot a criticism or a compliment.
It's just, you see this with otheractors and actresses where it's like,
Oh, you're just kind of that way.
I, in fact, I'm watching I just finishedwatching the morning show, the old
seasons on Apple TV with Jennifer Aniston.
And,

(59:04):
and I like her don't give her a
bit

Katie (59:06):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I

think she's beautiful.
I think she is
beautiful and she's wonderful.
I actually like her a lot andshe was great in that show.
It was great to see her dramatic role.
And, but.
Even watching that it wasn'tlike oh, I still see Rachel.
I've what as I've watched moviesas time has gone on It's not
that you still see Rachel.
It's just Jennifer Aniston.

Katie (59:25):
Sure.

That's what I mean.
So she
was like in this dramaticrole She's cursing.
She's having sex.
She's doing all these very adultthings in this TV show But she
would say stuff like oh, she wouldcall some of her co stars, honey.
For example, she go Oh, that's what Rachelused to do call her co stars, honey.
But no, that's that's Jennifer Aniston
She's probably not even the script,
but she just refers to people's honey.

(59:46):
So anyways, I say all
that Mel There's timeswhere I like the crazy eyes.
I like the way he is I like the I likesome of his facial mannerisms and his
humor and his comedy that he bringsto these sometimes serious roles It's
actually very good he's very good at it,but then yeah, the controversy, but I
just want to say for this is peak mel.

(01:00:07):
It's too bad.
Those kind of a way.
I'll say it again.
That's a bit of a waste of peakmel because he's 32 in this film.
By the way, he's 32.
Yeah.
Because again, I've already criticizedthe script, so I think he did
great with the script that he had.
He's 32 Kurt Russell's 37and Michelle Pfeiffer's 30.

Katie (01:00:26):
Okay.

Ryan Rebalkin (01:00:27):
JT Walsh, I
believe is my age in this film.
It's funny.
I think he was like 40.
I think you know, he's 45 He'syounger than me in this film.
So
it's yeah, I just it'sone of those people.
It's like do you ever look young?
But so that was the ages of these areall actors like Michelle Mel and Kurt
prime and Kurt looked Yeah, extremely

Katie (01:00:46):
my God.
Can we talk about how

Well yeah, so are you done with the mail?
I want you to
put a bow on

Katie (01:00:51):
Okay.
So yeah, like controversy.
It's interesting that youbrought up Tom Cruise and I'm
not trying to , say that I'm
smarter than other people,but I am empathic in that.
I think there's a reason there's a reason.
And I, you don't always know untillater why I don't like someone
I'll be like, Oh, so once I'm not.
I'm not loving so and

cut.
It's

Katie (01:01:11):
And then you find out later, Oh, okay.
Now I see why.
And you know, everybodywas gaga over Tom Cruise.
I did think he was attractive in somemovies, you know, from back in the day.
But I was never crazy for Tom Cruise.
I think he, , gets a lot ofpraise for his work ethic.
He's like really good, but, and I thinkMel, I've enjoyed some of Mel's movies.

(01:01:33):
Movies didn't everthink he was attractive.
In fact, this is the movie.
I think he's the most attractive.
His hair was very normal.

it was normal.
yeah, it was in the

Katie (01:01:41):
It was like a regular guy and you know, he had a fairly decent body.

When I was 32, yeah.

Katie (01:01:46):
Well he should have a better body if he's going through to anyways.
No, I joke, but so I guess what I'm sayingis I know they were both movie stars.
And to your point about people used togo to movies because so and so was in it.
KUrt is a draw for me.
I will watch a movie because Kurt's in it.
I will not watch a movie solelybecause Tom Cruise is in it.
In fact, it has the opposite effect for me

That's fair.
You're not the only one.
You're not alone in that.
You're just, you're not alone in

Katie (01:02:11):
similar with Mel not at all.
Like I don't, I don't careabout Mel and even before.
Scandals even before we knewTom Cruise was in that job.
I was just like, all right.
I liked days of thunder becauseI liked days of thunder.

No, that's fair.
You're not, you're notsaying anything funny.
you're not saying anythingcontroversial or, or even that crazy.
That goes for every actor.
Again, you and I are sly

Katie (01:02:35):
yeah, everybody has their.

can't stand, that guy.
There's people that can't stand

Katie (01:02:39):
Yeah.
I feel like I was like, there was areason why I was like, no, thanks.
On those

I'll say this about, it was on the tip of my tongue.
It just came back to me.
The reason why Mel and Tom, I'veseen a lot of their films is what
I meant about their acting, they,they do pick quality roles in films.
That's the thing is they seem to getbehind projects and or directors, or
they do it themselves, like Braveheartwas Mel's, but they just, they're kind
of good at what they do, and so they canbe, that can be a big draw for people.

(01:03:04):
They like, you can't watch Braveheartand say, well, this is a crappy film.
You know, it, it justisn't, it's a good film.
It's crazy.
Good.
Then you watch like the lethal weapons.
You can't say this is a boringbuddy, comedy, action, drama.
It's actually not, it's very engaging.
It's a fun, it's a fun franchise.
Like it's just fun.
So, and then same Tom Cruise withthis latest Top Gun Maverick.

(01:03:25):
It made a billion plus dollarsto buy what people weren't bored.
They went to the film.
They had fun, but cause Tom is aworkhorse on the film and make sure
that he, he goes, we got, we gotto make films fun for audiences.
That was his only concern.
Is this fun for audiences?
And it was, so it's weird how thesevery strong personalities that
you're talking about, you're right.
There might be an underlining.

(01:03:46):
It's probably part of the reason whythey're successful, but it's also could be
something very off putting about it too.
It's, it's a conundrum in the art world.
I think, they're not alone in this from.
Leonardo da Vinci cutting off his ear?

Katie (01:03:57):
No, that wasn't Leonardo

Oh, who was, who was that?
Who was the one that cut off his ear?

Katie (01:04:02):
Is it Picasso,

Picasso, maybe?
I don't know.
I don't

Katie (01:04:05):
Somebody's screaming at us.

Either way, somebody's screaming at me or you.

Katie (01:04:09):
One of the painters, it was a pain.

But what I'm getting at is like eccentric
personalities is not new to this

Katie (01:04:15):
Van Gogh.
It was Van

thank oh Thank you.
There you go.
So eccentric personalities are not newto people who are good at what they do

Katie (01:04:25):
Yeah.
But yeah, I guess like I, you know,I, I thought Mel because I knew I was
going to be as soon as I realized thatMichelle Pfeiffer loved Mac, aka Mel and
not Kurt, a couple of things on that.
I was like, Oh, really?
But I guess I could kind of see why.
And even though I'm not a fanof Mel and Kurt's way better

(01:04:48):
looking, I was like, I get it.
I see why, you know, she feels like hisfeelings are true and she can't trust.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Nick's intentions with her andshe falls in love with him.
She it's again, I think it's sortof the, I can save you thing.
Cause she's like, I, I trust thatyou're out of this business now.
And he wasn't, you know,

yeah, that's interesting that Kurt to his his I liked that
he played a little bit against type.
He was a bit of more of a dickin this film than Mel was.
It was interesting against type a littlebit that he was a little bit like, Kurt,
you're like, but he's doing his job.
So was he lying to Michelle?
Was he not lying to Michelle?
A bit of both

Katie (01:05:25):
a bit of both, I think, don't

a hot woman.
Yeah.
She's a hot girl.
So at the end of the day, he is usingher and he's also falling for her.
So he can, it can be both.
I think it was both.
And she, she caught onto that.
So she chose, even though.
Mel might have had a criminal past.
At least he'd never lied to her.

Katie (01:05:43):
but yeah, it's interesting because even the line, I wrote it down.
Kurt says to her, you're not like me,you're honest, kind, and principled.
He says that to Michelle.
So in that, I was like, yeah,I think it is a bit of both.
I think he does want information,but he also really, really digs her.
I wouldn't go so far to say he'sin love with her, but they, their

(01:06:05):
sexual chemistry was way better.
Their flirtation at the boothin the restaurant, and then
when they start kissing, it wasreally, I, it was very believable.
I believed that they were into it.

Yeah, I think I
think he Was for her.
I don't know.
You
know, I think again, you canlike more than one person at
once for different reasons.
So they
were

Katie (01:06:24):
I just mean for us as the audience seeing that love scene was better

I was a better.
It was a better on screen chemistry.
I agree.
Yeah, it wasn't awkward.
But so let's talk aboutthe every, every man, Kurt.
I thought he was yeah,great, great looking.
Of course, it's very, hehad his hair slicked back.
Apparently it waspatterned after Pat Riley.
The basketball coach

Katie (01:06:45):
Yeah, because he was maybe going to potentially be in this, right?

Was he going to be in it?
I didn't catch that part.

Katie (01:06:51):
Yeah, I think I wrote down.
Let's see.
Let me find it.
Yeah, when the film went intoproduction, the coach of the L.
A.
Lakers at the time, Pat Riley,was offered the role of Nick.
He turned it down and then it went toKurt Russell and then Russell patterned
his look was influenced by Riley and thenhe was quoted as saying That Riley's look
was right for this film because he wasarrogantly confident, but not offensive.

Interesting.
What?
Why would they,

Katie (01:07:20):
I don't know who Pat Riley is.
I'm unfamiliar.

a basketball coach, but

Katie (01:07:23):
apparently I am.
I
just, I'm

I know, I know exactly who he is.
I didn't have to look him up.
Like I know what he is like.
I knew exactly what he

Katie (01:07:28):
What he looks like.

Yeah.
And I'm just curious why theythought he would be in a film.
He still sucks his hair back to this day.
He's now 79.
But I'm just trying to thinkof I'm looking at this.
I don't see any acting.
Why would they think he

Katie (01:07:43):
I don't

could be, he could headline a
movie.
That's a weird.
I mean, he was, he was big in the day.
Don't get me wrong.
Like he coached the championshipstuff back in the day.
I just, anyways yeah,he was from 85 to 1990.
He was an all star game head coach.
I mean, he, this guy'sgot accolades out there.
Ying Yang.
This guy

Katie (01:08:02):
Pat Riley.
All right.

time NBA championship

Katie (01:08:05):
Wow.
Oh, that was like Lakers werelike ruling the world at the time.
I can see that.

Magic Johnson and stuff.
so um, so anyway, interesting, butyeah, Kurt, what I love about Kurt, he
did in this film, there's a couple of.
Parts in the film, as you know, hugeTombstone fans, one of my favorite films
of all time, Kurt Russell, of course,stars in that, and this came out two
years before Tombstone, and there wasa couple moments in this film where
he evacted like, oh, this is the WhiteArbor we're about to see, there's just

(01:08:32):
a couple little moments, the way heyelled, uh, some of the characters,
he did the Kurt yell, which I love somuch, I love when he gets that angry,
Kurt yell just the way he does it.
And it was just like, little didaudiences know that he was gonna
perfect that kind of anger and energyon the big screen with Tombstone.
It came out with this character.
So I don't know if this is justthe stage of his career, but I love

(01:08:54):
the the mal yell, sorry, mal yell.
The the Kurt the got me the brain,the Kurt yelling that he does
was when he yelled at MichellePfeiffer in the parking lot.
That was a good scene.
And then when he threw the coffee onJT Walsh and then yells at him as well.
I just, I love it when Kirk gets angry.
It's such good acting.
That's a part of me.
Hopefully he never yells
a Goldie Hawn this way because he's

Katie (01:09:14):
Well, I suppose after so many years, they probably

Oh, they probably had a couple of they've been together for 40
years plus, but I, I've assumed being a
married man myself, they probablyhad a couple of headers yet.

Katie (01:09:23):
I bet.
So, but oh, my God, Idug the switchback hair.
And again, only certainpeople can pull that off.
Kurt can pull off any hair,but oh, my God, there was a
scene, a couple of scenes.
Where he's sitting, just talking and,but being really playful and sly.
He's talking to Mel's character in thebooth and he's just kind of smirking and

(01:09:46):
smiling and I just being hurt that charm.
But I was like, holyshit, you are handsome.
Like those eyes just piercedthrough you, those, oh God.
He's handsome.

he's a leading man for a reason.
He is a leading man for a reason.
Yeah.
I love Kurt.
I've always loved Kurt Russell andI'm so glad that we can say he just,
he has escaped, thank goodness,

Katie (01:10:10):
Mm-hmm

Have you heard of anything
about him that's controversial?

Katie (01:10:14):
No, and I, I have a good feeling about him.
Like I, I have, I have, I havean intuition about things.

Well, he survived a child's career, which
is crazy.
That's the thing.
He's been acting since hewas a kid and he survived.
The child actor syndrome, Ihaven't heard of any scandals.
He's been with the samewoman for 40 years.
I haven't heard of any stepping out.
I don't know

Katie (01:10:35):
honestly, it wouldn't surprise me if he does, if he
has stepped out just because thatwould be surprising for anybody.
But yeah you know,sometimes married couples.
Yeah, they maybe have anagreement or something, but

I
wouldn't even be surprised.
They seem like the kind of coupleI would, it's no, no judgment, but
if they're both so good looking,they're kind of like, well, sorry.
I slept with my co star.
And he's like, well, so did I.

Katie (01:10:56):
yeah, but I would love it if they didn't like, that would be just like a

I'm sure I, sir, we would have heard.
Loosely

Katie (01:11:03):
you pay, I mean, you can, when

don't hear about it.

Katie (01:11:06):
you Can
keep things quiet.

Can you I

Katie (01:11:09):
You make people sign things.
I don't

I don't but I don't see them doing that Hey, thanks for
schlepping with me now sign this or I'mgonna destroy it Like I don't see them
doing that to people you'd hear somethingsome sort of Rumors or something that

Katie (01:11:22):
Yeah.

you just don't hear of

Katie (01:11:24):
Yeah.
I would like to believe.
Let's go

Well, you can't believe it evidence has shown
us that you can't believe it.
They've been together for 41
years.

Katie (01:11:35):
Yeah,
And they were both married before.

Yeah,
that's right.
that's right.

Katie (01:11:41):
Yeah.
I, it's one of my favorite thingsabout them that they're not married.

Yeah, it's funny how Yeah, what does that mean?
They've been together.
So that's why I say they've beentogether for 41 years And maybe that's
why cuz it was he was divorced amazing.
I don't want to get married again.
That's probably

Katie (01:11:57):
Same with her.
I let, I think the, and if youhave money, which they both do

oh,

Katie (01:12:03):
a lot of times people get married cause they want to have kids.
But if you don't have kids.
And they did have a son together, butthey're both have their own money.
There's no reason to get married.
Really.

no So in December 20 as late as December 24 years ago Russell
revealed that I'm sure he said it beforebut that he and Goldie never felt the
need to marry stating that quote Marriagecertificate wasn't going to create
anything that otherwise we wouldn't have

Katie (01:12:29):
Yeah, I fully agree.

They already had it
They don't need any institutionto tell them that they
already have what they have.
I love it.
Yeah, I love them Ilove I know That's good.
That's good to gush for Kurtbecause I think he's great.
I've always loved Kurt RussellYou I've always loved him and I'm
like you, I, you can like freelylove him without any apologies.
That's what, it's okayto love a celebrity.
Finally, there's, there's a lotof celebrity messes right now.

(01:12:53):
We can go into that.
There's just people right now inthe news are like, Oh, it's like
hard to be their fans because ofall the messes they've been in.
But you can, you can freely advertisethat you love Kurt Russell and no
one's going to be really that guy.
He's such a, such a what

Katie (01:13:07):
Same with Patrick.
And again, that's why I there.
Together.
Like they're both amazing at what they do.
They both are good humans.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I guess Michelle Pfeiffer didn'tget along though with the director,

Yeah, I read that

Katie (01:13:25):
and he, he called her the most difficult actress I've
ever worked with, but apparentlyhe's really a perfectionist.
So that might have contributed to thisand she was going through divorce.
So I don't

I I think that probably haven't been through on myself
You're not on Work Ryan, when I wentthrough my divorce 16 years ago.
Yeah, of course.
Don't judge me.
Based on that timeline, right?
So it was, yeah.
Who would divorce Michelle Pfeiffer.
I mean, she was a screen like again,I mean, she's a beautiful woman now.

(01:13:58):
We all, we, we just all, get older.
Like the reality is, you andI, were all gonna get older.
blah, blah, blah.
One day we will, we, we hope to be81 day, but we're not gonna look the
same when you're 80, when you're 30.
It's just, that's justthe reality of life.
But here she is 30 yearsold in this film prime.
She looks beautiful, stunning.
I love the way she acts, but it's funnyhow she's still never reached the levels
of some of her female counterparts,like Nicole Kidman or even oh boy.

(01:14:21):
The name came to me like Susan Sarandon.
There's just some other actressesof her time that she never
quite I would say she's a list.
I think her biggest role wasof course, Batman returns, but
for commercial success, but.
And then she's been in big films,but I feel like for some reason she
never reached like the Julie Robertsstratosphere And I don't know why that is.

Katie (01:14:40):
She is a list, but she's not in the elite of the elite.

That's what I mean.
Like she's like you see her nameon the bill You're like, oh cool.
She's in it.
But people again saw Julie Robertsfilms because she's Julie Roberts
That's that she was that type of

Katie (01:14:55):
Well, she does.
I mean, I will say, I don't think MichellePfeiffer has what Julia Roberts has.

So regarding Julia Roberts, I wasn't a big fan of hers, like when
I was younger, for some reason I did,I don't know what it was, but as I've
gotten older, it's, it's odd, I found,I don't find her, you know, just like
how some actors will find, you'll findannoying, like Mel, for example, for
some reason, I never got around, but Igot, I've come around to her for some
reason, I think as she's gotten older,I think she's also anti plastic surgery,
is my understanding, which I appreciate.

Katie (01:15:21):
That must be why I've always felt a kinship with her.
I'm sure she has some stuff

Yeah, I
think

Katie (01:15:27):
injectables and stuff, but

just recently came up with an interviews saying she
wants, she does, she wants toage as you're supposed to age.

Katie (01:15:37):
That makes me love her even more.

Well, I think, I think again, 'cause the Internet's
terrible she's responding to some ofthe cri like, oh, look at Julie Roberts.
She looks old.
Yeah.
I'm 57 or whatever.
It's now whatever the age is.
I think she's in her mid fifties.

Katie (01:15:50):
Raul Julia, I did take note of his singing in this movie I love him as
Gomez Adams and he sings in that too.

that's right.

Katie (01:15:59):
And he is a trained
singer, Raul.

Yeah.
When he was singing on the, on the stepsthere was a part of me like that wasn't
script, like that was Raul Julia justbeing himself or they're like, Hey,
why don't you just sing or whatever?
Cause they knew he could sing the, theyweren't like, Oh, it just so happens.
We wrote in the script that your characteris going to sing on the stairwell.
So isn't that great?
You can sing.
It's one of those things where theactor brings something to the table
that they incorporate into the film.

Katie (01:16:24):
Mm hmm.
You mentioned Chinatown andwhat, what came of that?
Apparently there was a sequelplanned called The Two Jakes for

It was

Katie (01:16:33):
they were, It was made.

Yeah.
I've seen it.
Yeah.
Yeah.

Katie (01:16:37):
Oh, yeah.
It was the planned sequel to Chinatown.
I haven't seen it.
It was in 1990.
Was it good?

Yeah.

Katie (01:16:43):
Was it a, Was it a, sequel?
Did it make

Yeah.
It's the same.
Well, it's a sequel in the sensethat it's the same character.
I think I'd have to go back.
Craig, our, our good friend, Craig,who's a big he's more of a, I think he
would have this answer better than me.
I don't know why I think he wouldknow this answer, but it's the
same character that Jack played.
He plays again, but it'slike a different case.
A different, it's like saying James Bond.
Is it a sequel?
Well, it happened after and it's
the Same
character, but it's a whole different,it's a different case or whatever.

(01:17:08):
Yeah.

Katie (01:17:08):
Got it.
Well, I was reading that Robert Townewas going through legal issues with that
movie and ended up severing his friendshipwith Jack Nicholson at the time.
They have since It's since reconciled, but

Well, not anymore.
No, it doesn't matter.

Katie (01:17:22):
well, yes,

I just joke.
It's before there.
Oh, so Robert Towner came down from
heaven says, Jack, I forgive you.
And then we went back up to heaven.
No.
Yeah, of course.
Before his passing.
Yes.

Katie (01:17:35):
So in the movie Tequila Sunrise, Greg, the cousin, Max cousin,
as well as Carlos, they each have aspeech about friendship in the movie.
And apparently this was Towne's wayof reflecting his feelings of that
betrayal, I guess, in the movie.

Yeah.
I love that.
I love that kind of stuff.

Katie (01:17:53):
Did you like how it ended?
What do you think about it?
The fake death sort of you knew it wasn't

Well, they, they wanted to kill Mel's character
that, and of course, and I
get it.
The studios are always like,no, but it's Mel Gibson.
This prime audiencesare going to like that.
If this film was filmed todaywith the actress, the same stardom
of today, let's just say today'sfilms, he would have been dead.
I kind of liked that about today's films.
We're not afraid to kill the hero.
And I kind of liked that.
We're not too sure how like yougot TV characters, like what?

(01:18:21):
They killed Ed Stark on game of Thrones.
Like you can't believe things happen.
I like that.
So, but back then audiences, you know,kind of like you don't kill Mel Gibson.
He'll do that to himself and Braveheart.
So yeah, it's so it was a littlebit Hollywood tropey, but whatever.
Yes.
You know, Kerr, you can have her.
You're, you're my friend and you guyslook, he's looking over like a, as an

(01:18:45):
angel, almost like I've got you, buddy.
He don't worry about it.

Katie (01:18:48):
Yeah, and then he that was his way of not having to arrest him.

yeah, it's all, it's, it's all tied up.
Everything.
They get to be together.
No, one's arrested.
He's
alive.
Happy ending.
Yeah.

Katie (01:18:59):
And in the water, like he was in the water.

back to
the
water.

Katie (01:19:03):
Yeah.
Yeah.

like that.

Katie (01:19:05):
And actually, when when Kurt kisses Michelle Pfeiffer,
when Nick kisses Joanne One time inthe wine cellar, they're wet too.
They really liked a wet love scene

Well, Michelle likes to be with Michelle as a fan of being wet.
What can I say?
Oh,

Katie (01:19:23):
all right.
Some casting.
What if we already talkedabout Pat Riley potentially.

that's so weird.
I don't
I don't even understand that.
Thank goodness.

Katie (01:19:32):
At one point they wanted real life buddies, Nick Nolte and Jeff Bridges.
With Nolte
as the cop,

No, that that's right.
That's right.
That's
perfect.
That's good casting.
That's actually Nick Nolte He's a funnyguy and he's really kind of I feel bad.
He's I feel alcohol is a hell of a
drug but in his prime asan actor, he's a good actor

Katie (01:19:54):
Yeah, I always liked him.

Yeah, he's good.
And Jeff Bridges, of course, my goodness.
There's another one that youcan't say any bad about Jeff Just
a great guy and a great actor.
So that would have been

Katie (01:20:05):
Mm

funny enough

Katie (01:20:07):
That would have been good.

That would have been good.
too.
So I would love to have seen that version.
I have no issues ifthat one got made Yeah,

Katie (01:20:13):
Mm hmm.
Same.
Alec Baldwin, I guess, was theoriginal choice for Nick, Freesia.

mm hmm.

Katie (01:20:19):
And he auditioned twice, I guess, but

already has his hair slick back

Katie (01:20:23):
Yeah,
Yeah, might have been, might have been alittle too on the nose for Alec Baldwin.
Mm hmm, mm hmm, mm

good actor to again now, you know issues, you know, it's family.
Yeah.
So it was a good actor.
Very good actor
Yeah, that would have worked to youknow a lot of strong actors back
then who could have done that rolebecause it's not a crazy role where
it's like only one person Could be the
Joker or something.
This is like it's a
cop right so that Alecwould have fit that role.
Yeah

Katie (01:20:50):
yeah.
Warren Beatty and Scott Glenn wereboth considered for the lead roles.
It didn't say which ones, but
I've always liked Scott Glenn.

would've been the cop.

Katie (01:21:01):
He always plays the cop.
doesn't he?
Yeah,

Why?
Yeah.
Good act.
Yeah, go.
Of
course.
Warren Beatty.
Good actor.
Yeah.

Katie (01:21:08):
Mm hmm.

But Scott, Glenn's a underrated actor

Katie (01:21:14):
Agreed.
I, I, really like him and everything he's

again of, I never see a movie
because he's in
I gotta go see that
new Scott Glenn film, however dot,dot do when he is in the film.
Boy, what a treat.
'cause

Katie (01:21:27):
hmm.
Yeah.
And then one last one, when RobertTowne was reworking the screenplay
for Frantic, he was nearly finishedwith the screenplay for this.
And the star of that is Harrison Ford.
So Towne was like, Ooh, maybe HarrisonFord could be in Tequila Sunrise.
And I guess he even agreed to star,but eventually had to drop out

(01:21:48):
due to some personal conflicts.
And then they flew toAustralia to meet with Mel.

Oh, okay, interesting.
Speaking of Australian metal,did you catch his accent stuck
through quite a bit in this film?

Katie (01:22:01):
Did it?

Oh yeah, it was like four
scenes alone when I was like,Whoa, I heard the Mel because
I've seen Mad Max so many times.
I know his, I know his natural voice.
So it came through one time.
It came through when he was sittingin the tractor talking to his ex wife.
It came through there loud and clear.
It's like, Hey Mel, you're American.
Remember anyways, but,

Katie (01:22:19):
maybe just don't pay attention because I know he's Australian.
So if it's sound, I would justbe, that'd be like, yeah, okay.

Yeah,
I mean it doesn't really matter hecould literally be from Australia
who moved to America in the film Itwouldn't matter doesn't change that.
It doesn't
yeah.
Yeah,

Katie (01:22:32):
Good point.
I feel like we always run out of time.
We could just go on andon and on I love it.
1988 tequila sunrise, but.
about time to return tothe present day reality.
, Ryan,
you were my first guest.
You were my last guest.
Bookends.
Thank you.
I feel very honored.
No, just have season one.
You'll be

Okay, whoo,

Katie (01:22:52):
back.
You'll be back.
Any final thoughts about TequilaSunrise or just the season in
general of of our, our every man.

Well, first I just want to say, Katie, you
have done a great, great job.
I just really want to say youhave done a really, really
amazing job running the show.
You're very professional.
You've got your littlecalendar invites, which I love.
It's, it's great.
You just love it.
And it comes through inyour, with your guests.
You've had given many guestshave come back from other shows.
So you're obviously very trusted to it inour little community of podcasting Yeah.

(01:23:25):
I just want to say, so that'smy answer to your question.
Season one job well done.
It's all because of you.
You've done an amazing job.
So even when you've had guests, like, Hey,you don't have to have those people back.
I'm just teasing.
No, but what I'm sayingis you are the key.
You are the key.
So, everyone give a roundof applause to Katie job.

(01:23:45):
Well done for your

Katie (01:23:46):
Oh, thanks, Ryan.
Appreciate it.

And then a final thoughts on the film.
I'm, I'm glad I saw the film.
It's been on that.
You know, it's that film.
It's like, I can't believe I haven't seenthe Mel Gibson film from the eighties.
Like, how does that happen?
Right.
So, because I saw all of his filmsback in the day, but it's done.
I've seen it.
I'm glad I've seen it.
I actually enjoyed it more.
Yeah, I should have said that.
I actually thought Iwasn't gonna like the film.
I thought it was gonna be like thewhat's that one that Tom Hanks did?

(01:24:10):
With Bruce Willis?
oh, it's on,

Katie (01:24:12):
Tom Hanks and Bruce Willis.

yes, it's bonfire vanities.

Katie (01:24:15):
Oh, I haven't seen that.

I thought it was going to be something like that.
I can't, I haven't seen that eitheror Ishtar, which I have seen.
There's some films that people havedone with some big names where they've
just bombed where you're like, Oh,there's a reason why, but this film
didn't bomb again because of themain cast and they saved the film.
I'm glad I saw this film.
So I enjoyed it more than I thought.
I thought it was going to be a bore orit was going to be not very good, but it

(01:24:39):
was very good again, this, you know, Thisjust shows you how good an actor can save.
Maybe a subpar script.

Katie (01:24:45):
I agree.
I also enjoyed it more than I thoughtI was going to didn't really know
what I was going to get myself into.
It was almost two hours and I don'tthink I wasn't like looking at the time.
Like I think, you know, I was entertainedfor the two hours agreed in it to your
point about when a movie is excellent.
There's a reason this moviewas good, but not excellent.

No, not excellent.
but if you're anyway, a male purist ora curt purist or both and you haven't
seen this, we behoove you to watch itand then you can say you've seen it.

Katie (01:25:21):
Mm hmm.
All right.
What are we going to look forward to?
You said on worst of the best, you'regoing to do your celebrity deaths and
kind of your Google searches of 2024.
What else do you got comingup on some of your shows

we did a an episode that has yet to be released as well
about, what was it about again?
Oh celebrities that got fired.
From their respective TV shows.

Katie (01:25:43):
because of scandals or whatnot, or just, ah,

see why they left.

Katie (01:25:47):
I like it.
Sneak peek.
Okay.
All right.

yeah, but I love I love our
year end wrap up the next.
episode.
I don't know yet what the next subjectwill be I have yet to record the
celebrity death because at the timeit's recording December's not over
yet We have to wait till January1st because people like Betty White

Katie (01:26:03):
Yep.
Last

surprise Surprises of that life.
We're always hopeful That
somebody might just

Katie (01:26:10):
was a big one too.
What about what's the next movie?
Fred's wick Zooks

Oh, next.
Okay.
So at the time it's recording again, causeit's how the world of podcasting works.
I am editing right now, love and otherdrugs, which I did with the lovely Kaylee.
You'll get to meet her.
She's a first time guest co host on that.
And she invited me on her show,which was very sweet of her.
So I'm going to be recordingwith her in February.
And you'll get to hear aboutthat on her show there.

(01:26:33):
And then I am recording in just a bit.
Less than a week at the timeit was recorded with Craig.
We're doing a pawn sacrifice.
That's the next one.

Katie (01:26:42):
A pond sacrifice?

pawn P A W N.
I believe it's about BobbyFisher, the chess player.

Katie (01:26:48):
Oh, yes.
Okay.
Ah, interesting.
Okay.
I've not heard of that before.

Yeah.
So based on it, I guessat least a true person.
Yeah.

Katie (01:26:57):
All right.
Cool.
All right, everybody check out Ryan'sshows is I'll have his links in the
show notes and you know that I'm goingto ask you for reviews, everyone.
So please, please,please, but also remember.
Email me retro made podcast at gmail.
com for thoughts, comments, feedback onthis season so that I can incorporate some
of that into the bonus episode of wrappingup our ultimate everyman with a bow.

(01:27:20):
So I'd love to hear from you anduntil next time, be kind rewind.

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Tequila Sunrise | S1E41

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Tequila Sunrise | S1E41