July 14, 2024 • 40 mins
This week on Rugby Direct, Elliott Smith and Liam Napier wrap the second test against England and discuss the All Blacks' game plan - or seeming lack thereof, as well as the impact of Beauden Barrett, line-out struggles and how they might line up against Fiji in San Diego.
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
You're listening to a podcast from News Talks EDB. Follow
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inside the Game from every angle. It's Rugby Direct with
Elliott Smith, powered by News Talks EDB.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Welcome into Rugby Direct par By Access Solutions, elevating you
and your business to a higher level Elligance Smith, News
Talks Lead Rugby commentator with me as always Liam Napier
from The New Zealand Hero, Chief sports correspondent rugby writer.
Liam will recording this on Sunday afternoon. We've done us
the last couple of weeks. Just something a bit different
(00:45):
Black fans fans, I mean, we won't have anything elsis
of the result, but it's gone like.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
The previous twenty six tests.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
The Black fans hopefully have gone to twenty seven this afternoon,
but we'll have more on that next week. Let's review though,
the All Blacks when over England twenty four seventeen and
similar last week to last week, Liam, the All Blacks
having to dig deep and find a way out of
the arm wrestle against the English again, I was.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
Gonna say didn't have their own way.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
They barely had anything go their way, really, they couldn't
implement their game plan once again. But somehow, after two tests,
this All Blacks group, this coaching staff, this team is unbeaten.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
What did you make of the second test at Eden Park.
Speaker 4 (01:31):
Well, here we are on Sunday, It's God's Day and
I think the All Blacks will be worshiping Boden Barrats
for another great escape, because as you say, it was
another really torrid night for the All Blacks and it
was a very familiar script in that the All Blacks
started quite well. They had some brilliant breakout moments on
(01:53):
the counter attack that they didn't finish. Execution was off
again there and they struggled in similar areas that the
line out was an abomination in the first half. They
did make some adjustments there, but in the first half
alone they lost five three of their throw and two
complete fumbles. Maratoji had a field day across the field
(02:14):
for sixty minutes. Really troubled them at the line out.
The breakdown and restarts just a complete menace. The All
Blacks struggled ball carrying wires, which we'll go into a
bit deeper later. But to really get over that vantage
line to build phases, they got pinned in their half
England's kicking game again, they struggled to get out. England
(02:36):
really just couldn't find that killer punch and they had
so many opportunities that they had the weight of possession
of territory and they couldn't quite put the All Blacks away.
And then the All Blacks bench again was a telling
factor in coming over the top of England. But it
was another very near thing for Scott robertson Scott Robinson's
All Blacks.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Let's talk about the line out first and foremost. As
you mentioned, the Marotoji had a field day with the
All Blacks line out. They couldn't get it right in
the first half, although I think in the second they
didn't lose one on their own throw in their managed
to get a couple of steals of English bullets sort of.
The ship was righted a bit towards the end of
the game, but we saw it last week indeed, and
(03:17):
they lost three lineouts on their own throw as well.
It just seems really really clunky. Now they don't have
a specialist line out coach or a set piece coach
in the environment, but they have a throwing coach.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
Exactly Cory Flynn, and it also had.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
Fools under Jason Ryan's remits in terms of the set
piece as well. So Scott Barrett's All Black captain was
asked about it in the postmatch media conference and sort
of said there was a couple of reasons why around it,
but not really clear exactly the reasons why. But a
couple of weeks in a row that strength of the
All Blacks has been really clunky and it's you know,
(03:54):
they had ample ball position last night. If they could
get the line out right, they could have built an attack,
but they just fumbled it on the line out and
then put themselves back under pressure.
Speaker 4 (04:04):
I think, first and foremost, this is a fundamental area
of the game. You have to get right because set
piece is so crucial to launching your attack, your strike
moves so in the modern game, not necessarily just the
modern game, but it's a real pillar to get right,
and if you don't, you're crippled at the knees. So
(04:25):
they'll bleck scrum. Extremely dominant in both tests, but their
line out kneecapped them. And it is a major consumer
because you know, in the post rodiootelic and I'm going
to say a lot more so Sam Whitelock because he
is the line out guru, he was the lineout caller.
He did so much study on opposition lineouts such and
(04:48):
never has Sam Whitelock's absence been more telling than in
these two tests. And Scott Barrett talked about miss miscommunication
and caught and calling being two issues on the night,
and that was very evident in one throw where Cody
Taylor They'll Blecks, threw their line out jumper up, he
came down and Cody Taylor threw the ball straight tomorra
(05:09):
a ToJ who hadn't left the ground. That's just basic
stuff that should not be happening at All Black level
and it's something that they need to amend. They started
off throwing to Ardie Severe short at the front of
the line out. They tried short lineouts and nothing really worked.
That They did amend it to a degree in the
second half, and as you mentioned, I think Patrick Tupelotu
(05:31):
and Ardie Severe got some crucial steals in the second half.
That's great, but you got to win your own ball.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
Yeah, and that game could have been different if the
All Blacks get their own ball. A couple of times
that first half. They were in the right position of
the field. They could have put some pressure on England
and attack that way. They didn't, and that's I think
perhaps the story of the first couple of tests, at
least for me, is that the All Blacks have had
some opportunities, they haven't had the killer instincts. They've obviously
(05:58):
scored a couple of tries in each test, but they
have lacked that killer instinct. I think obviously the lineout
last night where they fumbled that and weren't quite ruthless enough.
There there was the back and forth try with Petafetta
and Mark Taliah and tale just through it perhaps in
your throat and taed higher to evade the Marcus Smith
(06:19):
coming through and tacking it in the first spell Scoore.
That game opens up a little bit similar story in
danneed in the previous week. There are opportunities there for
the All Blacks, but they're just lacking the ability to
ice some of.
Speaker 3 (06:33):
Those things at the moment they are.
Speaker 4 (06:35):
In that Pedifeta Taliah instance, It's very easy to say
on reflection or from the coaching or you know, press
box that had Petifetter actually gone inside he had some
unmarked support runners. And there was another instance where I
think Damien McKenzie and Jordi Barrett a breakout and it
(06:56):
finished with Cody Taylor throwing a bit of a wild
offload that was unnecessary.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
Yeah, Cody tug on between two if you just go to.
Speaker 5 (07:02):
Ground and reset.
Speaker 4 (07:03):
So those just those patients and execution can be really
costly because at this level there's only a couple of
moments that you get to take to get right, and
the All Blacks aren't doing that, and then you allow
the opposition there too, and that there is going to
be swings in momentum.
Speaker 5 (07:21):
Look, I think you know we.
Speaker 4 (07:23):
Have focused on some negatives, so it's only right that
we talk about some positives. The scrum extremely dominant, and
that is rare for an English team. You know, they
are traditionally very strong at set peace and they were
at lineout and restarts. But the All Blacks crush their
scrum in derned and there's a lot of talk about
Ethan the group's technical issues. I think Brian Moore and
(07:46):
the Telegraph and made a big deal of it, and
the All Blacks still stuffed them. So that is a
weapon that the All Blacks can build on and the
key thing for them is it is maintained when their
bench come on. Fletcher Newle tight hair prop led a
big scrum penalty that allowed the All Blacks to push
out further. I think defensively the All Blacks need to
(08:07):
get better at coming off the line and being a
bit more aggressive and dominant with their carries. But they
did absorb a lot of England pressure, a lot of
England possession and not allow them to score Boden Barrett,
who will talk about some more holding up Jamie and
George at the end, so some real desperation and care
in that regard. But yeah, I think on the whole
(08:30):
there are a lot more improvements than positives when you
reflect across those two tests.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
Yeah, that scrum is a weapon, and it was even
more so. I think as you pointed out that there
been some issues raised by Brian Moore and others in
the Northern Hemisphere around the scrummaging technique of Ethan de Greut,
and for that to come out during the week and
then still to get those rewards at scrum time I
think will be a pretty happy feeling in terms of
(08:57):
the front row and then what they're able to do
for the All Blacks, and Scott Robinson said as much
in the postmatch media conference. He's like, well, we took
notice of it and still got the penalties out of it,
so that's a really good sign for Ethan de Groot.
I think the defense wise is a positive, although last
night they were also out done twice by crossfield kicks.
Speaker 3 (09:21):
And England managed to get them there.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
That the scramble or the defensive reset offer high kickers
probably something they need to work on. It just feels
like they didn't read it right on either occasion and
that cost them two tries in the end. But defensively wise,
they as you said, absorbed a lot of preciure. There
was ten to fifteen minutes in that first spell where
they had to felt like twenty twenty five almost minutes
(09:46):
in the second spell where they were just camped down
their own ends of Eden Park and couldn't get out
of there for love nor money, and again England would reset,
refire and the All Blacks would defend. So that's a
positive in some ways, but you can't be doing every
test like that, and I think through two tests England
haven't allowed them to necessarily. But the All Blacks we
(10:08):
have I've seen exactly what this game plan under Scott
Robertson and co. Is actually going to be.
Speaker 4 (10:13):
No, it's not evident, is it. And I think the
coming back to the lineout when you're giving up that
set piece platform and giving their possession so easily back
to the opposition that forces you to defend for long periods,
and England will rue a couple of instances. I think
it was Oli Lawrence twice dropped the ball in England's
in the All Blacks twenty two under pressure I think
(10:34):
from Rikowane on defense. So you know, there were countless
opportunities that England had to strike and they did only
really through those crossfield kicks. I'm going to throw something
else that you hear. So it seems very evident to
me that the All Blacks four pack, I don't know
if they're undersized. I don't think that's accurate necessarily, but
they are lacking big, damaging, destructive ball carriers. They're not
(10:58):
getting over the game line enough. And when you look
at that pack there should be you know those players there.
Patrick Twoplot is a big man, some a penny female
I would argue, has not carried his enforcer status from
Super Rugby through to the Test arena. Artie Severe had
one strong charge off a penalty that led to Mark
(11:18):
t Lea's opening try, but that was a rarity. So
why are they all blacks not finding these ball carriers
and where do they go to to get them?
Speaker 2 (11:30):
Well, I think that's a very interesting question, and I
don't know that they necessarily exist. And I don't know
whether it's the New Zealand just in general the body
size of humans that New Zealander is produced, or whether
they're not playing rugby. But you look at Super Rugby,
it's not like these players are being missed at Super
Rugby level and aren't being elevated to all Blacks level.
Speaker 3 (11:52):
I don't know whether it's a size issue.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
From what I hear, a lot of tall players are
now going down the basketball route and not playing as
much rugby. So it's a fundamental how do you get
these players that are big bodies into rugby in the
first place, not at alone get them to all blacks level.
So that's what they're singing, and I think that's why
they put so much resource into Josh Lord, who we
really haven't seen a lot of even at Super Rugby level,
(12:15):
but they know that he is that big frame more
than two meters tool that if they can get him
up to All Black speed, then he is going to
be the kind of body that they want to be imposing,
be that threat. Fabian Horn not eligible yet for the
All Blacks, but he looks like a really big frame
that the All Blacks could use at test level. But
he's still what just over a year away from being eligible.
(12:35):
So that's the kind of body size they're looking at
when it comes to the loose Fore trio. Sampini Fina
has that size, but I don't think we've seen a
couple of great tests from him. It looks like a
big steep up from Super rugby to Test rugby for him.
We're talking about some changes later on, but I would
I'd really like to see the All Blacks put Artie
Savia back to open side flank and try Wallace to Titi.
Speaker 3 (12:59):
At number eight.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
And you may maybe you can play female at blindside
still or you go someone like a black Adder or
maybe even Jacobson. But if you have Ardisa Via Ander
Wallace Satiti and there that gives you two strong carriers
in the loose Ford trio, but also two defensive bodies
as well. Instantly feels it, instantly feels more powerful. You're
not you're changing things up. And Don Papalti, I don't
(13:22):
think he's play badly in these couple of teats, but
I just don't think he's got that imposing prisons that
Tess Rugby now demands. You. Look at those English players,
marwit Toji, George Martin in the second row, the loose
Ford trio. They are big bodies and they have bulk
about them. When I think the All Blacks that the
frames are just a little bit slighter having done the
(13:43):
kg versus kg and how they stack up, but it
just feels there's a little bit of size lacking from
the All Blacks.
Speaker 4 (13:49):
I think there's a real debate to be had about
the composition of the All Blacks loose forwards. And I
agree that Scott Robinson sort of as you mentioned, we're
going to talk about changes later, but he's flagged that
the remaining squad Rockies will likely get a chance against
Fiji in this final July Test. And Wallace a Titi
is the guy that we need to see because he
(14:10):
is a point of difference.
Speaker 5 (14:11):
He is a big body.
Speaker 4 (14:12):
He is a destructive ball carrier and he brings so
much more size to the back of the scrum and
almost completely changes the dynamic of the potential loose forward trio.
Ethan Blackett is another interesting proposition. What's his best position
through the All Black Sam at open side or blindside?
He's going to come into the mix next week. He's
(14:33):
not necessarily a huge body, but he is very combative
in the way he plays the game.
Speaker 5 (14:38):
So I with you.
Speaker 4 (14:39):
I'd love to see Satiti and Ardie play together. Sam
Kaines on the fringe. He made his return in Toto
on Club Rugby, ironically playing at blindsides because there was
a very compelling hotdophenoal Carpety open side that he couldn't
push out of the starting lineup. But that's one aspect
(15:00):
the All Black loose Ford's trio which needs a look,
potentially needs a rethink. I also think they're missing Somasoni Takiajo,
who didn't necessarily have the best Super Rugby season, came
into some form towards the back end of the year,
but he is another big body, noted ball carrying presence,
so his presence I think is also being missed, but
(15:22):
that that whole ball carrying aspect is a big factor
for why the All Blacks aren't getting on the front
foot and why they're struggling to get around the rush defense.
It's so much easier if you have more time and
space if you're going forward.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
A couple of things still from last night. Cortez Ratama
comes off the bench becomes All Black number one two
hundred and fourteen, replacing Findlay Christie who went off for
an Hia.
Speaker 3 (15:43):
I thought, very tidy.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
What was it twenty eight minutes in the end that
Cortez Ratama I got on debut instantly and combined with
Bowden Barrett just ring those the attack a little bit
and he was quicker passing wires, just added some some
speed to things that it felt like the All Blacks
were going very much through the motions and sometimes you
need that spark off the bench and Cortez Ratama I
(16:07):
think could be very very happy with his test table.
Speaker 5 (16:10):
Well, big time. He was exceptional.
Speaker 4 (16:12):
He came on and his first box kick to touch
was very shaky, it went out, but that allowed him
to settle and he heard him postmatch talking and he said,
you know, anxiety and nerves were bubbling within and but
he definitely grew into the game and you're right his
speed to the base, his delivery was very evident and
(16:33):
a significant lift so him and Bowden in terms of
the speed, the decisiveness, the pace that the All Blacks
were able to inject and that sort of final quarter
was really telling. It won them in the game. And
when you compare Cortez to Finlay Christie, Christy did some
very good things on defense. He pinned Ben Earle off
(16:53):
the back of a scrum on one occasion, and his
first tackle the game in combination I think it was
with Cody Taylor lifted up one of the English ball
carriers and drove them back. So defensively, Finlay Christy is
the best defensive half back in New Zealand. But the
way the All Blacks want to play with pace and
tempo and speed from the base, get in, get out,
(17:13):
get the opposition, defense back pedaling. Cortez Ratima is that
guy and he needs to start. He infinitely fits that
mold so much more so. He couldn't have done anything
more to state his case to start against Fiji, And
in my mind, has usurped Finlay Christie in one match.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
Do you think that the All Blacks selectors and coaching
staff will agree with that?
Speaker 4 (17:38):
Though, Look, I think they will be a lot more.
They've been very conservative to this point, haven't. They only
made injury and forced changes between the two Tests. But
this Fiji Test is their chance. So I hope that
they will start Cortez. I'm not entirely sure they will,
but it sounds like TJ. Petina will not travel to
(18:00):
San Diego, so Noah hotheam, we'll probably go. So Finlay
Christie and Cortez are your two half backs had to
start give quarters ago.
Speaker 5 (18:11):
It just makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
We're going to get into a Boden Barons and made
on the game that later on the Final four before
we wrap up the game though, Liam just on England
and what they've brought to the series. They look like
a team that is on the rise, and I think
Steve Borthwick's got them humming along quite nicely with you.
With a look to twenty twenty seven, very very young team.
A lot of those players will be there in twenty
(18:34):
twenty seven. They'll have a couple more test years under
the belt. Marotoji is standing up well exceeded as maximum
minutes for the season that he's supposed to play, but
you wouldn't have known it for at least sixty minutes
last night before it. Perhaps he got a little bit
tired and gave Way a couple of penalties. But this
looks like an England team that is really promising heading
into Australia. Lots of like about it. Marcus Smith I
(18:55):
thought was excellent last night. Alex Mitchell is a very
very good half back list and interesting outside backs. So
the signs I think are positive for England. And their
next test is against the All Blacks in November at
twickt Him. They'll have fresh leagues there, they'll fancy the
chances of getting the job done on home soil. But
a lot to luck about this England team.
Speaker 4 (19:14):
They are resurgent in a big way and they have
so many more threats than they had what's six months ago?
Seven months ago at the World Cup. You mentioned Marcus Mitchell.
I'm a big fan of Mitchell. He's a dynamic running presence,
very accurate box kicker as well. Marcus Smith brings a
very different dynamic. This is an England team that still
(19:35):
has George Cruz to come back. Alice Ginge will make
a big difference to their front row and George Ford
not sure where he factors in, but very experienced playmaker.
And look this England team, they had a crack that
they chanced their arm at times. They threw everything into
it at the end of their long season. I think
(19:55):
Steve Borthwick is a very astute coach. He's had success
at club level. He's evolved Felix Jones and made a
massive difference with his rush defense that he's brought from
the spring box. They've got a couple of twenty one
year old prospects and Emmanuel and Channeler Comingham South who
look real comers. They just have multiple threats and they
(20:20):
are only going to get better. Maro Toji was out
on his feet for the last twenty months of that game.
Those surprises there, but you had a bit of locking depth.
With Cruise coming back, they are going to be a
real threat and I think teams are starting to sit
up and take notice of where England are and we've
got to give them credit because this was a really
tough start to attendure for Scott Robertson. This wasn't Wales
(20:42):
or Fiji or Australia at a low to a degree
that this was a real live threat and England would
have should have potentially won one both of those tests.
And yeah, they are going to be you look ahead
to November. Twicking them is a very tough place to
win and they'll be well fired up for that.
Speaker 3 (21:02):
They will be.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
Indeed, we'll take a quick break here on Rugby Direct,
come back with our final four after this, power to
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Speaker 1 (21:12):
This is Rugby Direct, a podcast for real rugby fans.
Ruct Howard Biese.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
Talks You're back with Rugby Direct powered by Excess Solutions
elevating you and your business to a higher level. Before
we get back into the All Blacks, that's take away
pit stop and divert ourselves to some of the other
games that went on during the weekends. Be nice to
watch all of them, but it is certainly not possible
with the number of hours in the day. But wow's
(21:47):
again similar story to the All Blacks in England. Similar
game to last week between Wales and Australia, but Australia
just kick on late to win that one. Ireland pitp
South Africa. Georgia beat Japan, Samoa held to a close
one over Spain. I think I'm missing a couple of
others to Italy bin Tonga. So it's been a festival
(22:07):
of rugby. What's stood out for you?
Speaker 4 (22:10):
There's a lot to take innocent there. As you mentioned,
I think Argentina got up over over France and there's
certainly plenty going on in the French camp. They're in
a bit of disarray with what's happening off the field there.
But look, I think the most notable victory across the
board there is the Irish. That's a massive win in
South Africa. They had a number of injury challenges. I
(22:32):
think they benched their captain Peter o'many, but Bunda a
Kay didn't play and a late drop goal from Frawley
tipping the scales there. That's a huge win away from
home to level the series against the world champions, giving
given everything that Russy's pumped up and thrown around, they
(22:54):
were very conciliatory postmatch that the Springboks applauding Islands. Big
big result because I think Ireland in a way have
to regenerate that team. But there's a number of aging
players and it's going to be interesting to see how
they do that. But to recover from being reasonably well beaten,
I thought the score floated them week one there big
(23:17):
big result for Islands. The Welsh Wallabies game was what
I saw of. It was a good spectacle. Still two
teams struggling to find their way. Australia have a lot
of work to do they I think they're up seventeen
nil in allowed Wales to really storm back into that contest.
But look, it's a positive start for Schmid. Two wins
(23:38):
starting from an extremely low ebb.
Speaker 3 (23:40):
And well, yeah, I'll tell you what.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
Georgia coming into town in Australia next week on the
back of their win over Japan. That's not an easy
test next week for Australia either. No, in a very
different proposition in the way that Georgia play. They'll try
and squeeze her and target the scrum and a lot
of different pressure points. I just want to read something
to you here so and it puts into context for
me the Dave Renni era and the massive cock up
(24:05):
from Australian rugby to get rid of a various coach
The first four games of Dave and his tenure were
against pell Blacks. Seven of the first twelve were against
cel Blacks. He would have liked to have played Wales.
Yeah exactly, Yeah, exactly, especially a Wales team at the
moment that is at a very from my mind low
Ebb with audue respect, lost some of those generational players
(24:27):
that have been there. As we mentioned last week, I
think Warren Gatland is yesterday's man and not the right
coach to lead this rebuild what this team needs. If
you cast you right at twenty twenty seven, I'm not
sure Warren Gatland's playing Warren balls the future for a
young Welsh team. So yeah, Joe Schmitz had a couple
of tests against Wales to get started Georgia next week.
(24:49):
But if we look at it, I guess Liam, the
South Africa Island, all Blacks, England at France and there
as well. There's not much between say the top five
teams and world rugby at the moment.
Speaker 5 (25:00):
No, not at all.
Speaker 4 (25:01):
On their day even any of those teams could tip
each other up. And it does come down to execution,
a refereeing decision, home advantage, a few injuries here and there,
you know, It is going to be fascinating to see
the plot lines and the results that play out over
the course of this year, let alone the coming years
between those nations, and it does look like there's a
(25:23):
real break between those nations and the Australia and Wales
of the world.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
They do it does Indeed, Tommy number sway what changes
for the All Blacks as they had to San Diego?
As I mentioned, we're recording this on Sunday afternoon. Some
thought from Scott Robinson they may leave a couple of
players behind. They hadn't finalized their traveling squad at the
time of recording this, but I think we can assume
that the remaining four debutantes likely to play in San Diego,
(25:51):
so it could be a much changed team. I guess
if we work through it from one to fifteen, you know,
would you start do you start give off of this
off of throng A fussy and Fletcher knew all the
starts in the front row, perhaps alongside a softfer on
Moer and go that way in the front row.
Speaker 5 (26:09):
Yes'm interesting to see quite how far they go with it.
Speaker 4 (26:12):
Isn't it that would make sense because it would allow
you to bring Pasilio Tossi onto the bench for his
potential debut, and then you go to the locking department.
Whether Scott Barrett starts because he's captain or maybe Artie
carries the captaincy for this one, but you would think
to provide would come into the second row there. They
(26:34):
don't have another second row in the squad. Whether Sam
Dowry has taken over there, we don't know at this point,
and we've discussed the composition of the loose forwards. What
do you want to see there?
Speaker 2 (26:46):
Well that I would like to see potentially, you know,
black at a Sava Stiti. Whether they go with that,
there's another matter entirely. They may go blackout of Jacobsen
Satiti potentially, But I think they're also if we look
at it from a wider angle, they don't want to
make it's gonna be tricky. They want to get those
combinations still going and also get these players on the park.
(27:07):
So it's a fine balance for Scorobson and in selectors.
Speaker 4 (27:10):
It is because, as you mentioned, the style of game
that the Illbacks are trying to play has not been
evident to this point, and they do have some real
pressure points where they need to improve. So if you're
throwing a whole bunch of new players, a whole bunch
of new combinations, history tells us that you're going to
get a clunky performance. And look, the last thing you
want to do is just lose to Fiji.
Speaker 3 (27:30):
So I guess we look at the backs.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
Liam, we mentioned Cortez right to me, you would think
going to start Christie on the bench.
Speaker 3 (27:36):
Ten's an interesting one.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
Boden Barrett, do they give him a crack at ten
or do you go with McKenzie and go Okay, you
haven't necessarily set the world on fire first two weeks,
but here's your chance against Fiji to get that confidence
back up.
Speaker 4 (27:50):
I think if you're looking long term, the McKenzie at
ten Bodemen at fallback makes more sense because you might
want to develop that combination. But I think if you
ask Bowden he'd want to start at ten. So it
is going to be really interesting to see how they
manage that dynamic. Damian mc kinsey, what's been your read
on his performances to tests?
Speaker 3 (28:12):
And well, he hasn't played with a lot of front football.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
I think his kicking game has been okay, but last
night they all blacks needed to get out of trouble
a couple of times and just didn't have the kind
of boot from Damie mckinziy or the kind of nouse
just to play fuel position and get them entering up
the park. And it was felt like they were scrambling
at ten and or at nine and ten for a while,
(28:37):
especially in that second half when they were campdown inside
their own thirty meters or thereabouts. So they need to
find a bit of there and that's on the team
to take a bit of ownership. But around that and
you know, get them into the right areas of the park.
And you can blame the Fords and not getting that
front football necessarily and a few issues around there, but
does fall on the ten as well.
Speaker 4 (28:57):
I think the All Blacks tactical kicking contestable tactical kicking
was not great and the second test for la Chrissy's
box kicks were often very long and that allowed England
just to swallow position and come back. And yeah McKenzie
did well for that. Try to see Vorice from a
crossfield kick in Dunedin, but didn't see a lot of
(29:20):
that's at Eden Park. It was only really when Boden
Barrett came on having sat on the bench and surveyed
the game that the ablets kicking game started to come
to the four.
Speaker 5 (29:30):
So I think you're right.
Speaker 4 (29:31):
That's a big improvement that they'll be looking for.
Speaker 3 (29:34):
Let's go the wings.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
Look the morning at Laua and Caleb Clark haven't had
any game time as yet. Feels fairly obvious that you
put both of those players in.
Speaker 4 (29:43):
Yeah, I think so, and it's I feel like it's
a lot easier to change wings than it is a
locking combination. You know, those are two guys, particularly Clark
who was scored a hat trick in the Super Aby
Final and would potentially feel hard done by that. He
hasn't had a crack to this point, particularly given his
aerial abilities and the way England liked to attack. So yeah,
(30:05):
you'd think they'd both come in and the midfield a
bit of a well, it's Anton, Lena Brown and Billy
Proctor who's yet today boot They would potentially make sense
as a combination. Anton probably more accustomed to center, but
is very comfortable at second five as well. But do
(30:26):
you want to retain a bit of continuity.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
Yeah, that's the thing is if you get rid of everyone,
you lose that continuity that you've had for the last
couple of tests, and wouldn't surprise me to maybe see
Leonard Brown at twelve, Yuanni at thirteen still and then
add Billy Proctor coming off the bench. I don't think
Rico Yuani look that great in the first couple of tests,
(30:49):
hasn't made the impact. I thought he went looking for
a bit more work last night and tried it, just
couldn't really get things going. So I wondered whether Rico
Uani gets another outing at center with Anton and Brown
inside them.
Speaker 4 (31:00):
Yeah, there's all sorts of ways that you could divv
that up, isn't it Jordi Barrett and Billy Proctor as
a combination. But I think Anton and a Brown as
the next cab off the rank, so he needs a start.
And you're right in terms of genuine line breaks that
didn't come from counter attacks, it's hard to remember any
really from the All Blacks, and Rico falls into that category.
(31:22):
So you've got to be wary that the All Blacks
are playing fourteen tests this year, so they do need
to rotate, they do fall back.
Speaker 2 (31:29):
I'd stat with Steven Peter Fetter if you're not starting
voting Barrett at ten. I think Parafetter with another go.
I remembering him that big block of Super Rugby as
well through injury, So not like he's overly desperate for
a break. He wouldn't have thought. So it's gonna be
fascinating that all backs team out as always around lunch
time on Thursday time after topic three in the Final
(31:53):
four here on Rugby Direct. So I've labeled this one
the Bowden Barrett conundrum Liam because his performance last night
was exceptional off the bench, plugged in for what half
an hour roughly coming on and change the game is tech.
All kicking was immense pinned England back and those all
away switches in the game, you know, momentum was all
(32:14):
with England, and then in the matter of a couple
of moments, Boden Barrett put it all back on England's
shoulders and put the all Blacks in the ascendency, set
up Mark to lay for that try as well with
a lovely break he took on the line first and foremost.
If we get into what this means, just a very
very good performance from Boden Barrett coming off the bench.
Speaker 5 (32:34):
It was exceptional wasn't it.
Speaker 4 (32:35):
And I genuinely don't think the All Blacks won that
Test without that sort of performance. And that's not been
hyperbole or anything. It's just how much influence he had
and all the instances that he touched on, and it
was just how decisive he was, having sat on the bench,
surveyed the match, knowing what was required, knowing where the
(32:57):
space was, influencing the game with his kicking, running, passing,
he really was the triple threat that the All Blacks
needed and it was a It's a back to the
future performance, isn't it. Because Bodens started his career one
hundred and twenty odd tests ago being that super sub
impact guy for the All Blacks coming on changing the
game with his pace and he's not that player to
(33:21):
a degree, but that really was what he brought at
the start of his All Blacks career. And the conundrum,
as you put it, is having performed that role, so well,
how do you go away from that?
Speaker 2 (33:36):
Do you go away for a look. I think Boden's
been clear that he wants a go at ten at
some point that will be commeda at im sure whether
it's this speak against VG, but whether it's the long
term strategy of the All Blacks.
Speaker 3 (33:45):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (33:45):
I think the long term strategy if you look four years,
is Richid Morgan comes back. But I think when the
All Blacks was strong, especially in that period from twenty
ten to let's say about twenty seventeen, the bench was exceptional,
really good, and it could change Test matches when it
came on and through experienced players going players being elevated
(34:06):
to the starting side. It was like perhaps the last
four or five years they haven't had that kick from
the bench that they would necessarily want or did have
in that previous period. And for me, I think, without
wanting to pigeonhole him, if you can get thirty minutes
of boat and bear it out like that in a
Test match when he's coming in watching things off the
bench and playing against some tired legs, he's seen opportunity
(34:31):
to sum things up off the bench and go Okay,
maybe this tactical work, maybe I can do this, this
and this. That is valuable to the All Blacks. And
I think if you can get the bench ride, that
helps you win Test matches more often than not in
the way that modern rugby's played. So for me at
the moment, I'd keep him on the bench.
Speaker 4 (34:51):
I think the doors still a jar at ten because
as we've touched on, McKenzie hasn't commanded that role. He
hasn't nawed that role down, So that's an open discussion
going forward. But longer term will Jordan, you would think,
is going to be the bolted on fullback, and so
that does lea You've boden in a compromise position to
a degree that and having performed that role so well
(35:15):
and his flexibility in covering both ten and fifteen, it
just makes him so ideal for that super sub role.
But it's not a discussion that's going to go away.
He will have some starts, presumably at first five to
accommodate his desire to play there and his experience in
that role. But in recent history he hasn't commanded that
(35:38):
role either and challenged the line and brought everything that
you want from a first five. And for the All Blacks,
he has in recent time has been largely a fullback,
so it would be a paradigm shift to a degree.
So look at this stage, I think the All Blacks
would be reluctant to go away from it.
Speaker 5 (35:56):
Against in their big tests.
Speaker 4 (35:58):
Fiji different proposition, Australia Puma's maybe a different proposition. But
if you're playing the spring box tomorrow in South Africa,
while would you go away from that because it works
so well? But it is going to be dependent to
a degree about how Will Jordan comes back. He's been
out all year with shoulder surgery and it's a big
ass to walk straight back into Test rugby and dominate
(36:21):
in a position that you haven't played at Test level.
Speaker 5 (36:24):
We've seen the step.
Speaker 4 (36:25):
Up from Super rugby, so I don't think it's an
automatic that Will Jordan's going to be exceptional straight off
the bat there either. So there's a few things to
play out there. But at this point it does seem
like Boden long term is destined to perform that role.
Whether he's happy and comfortable in that, he's always going
to say that publicly privately, every player wants to.
Speaker 2 (36:48):
Start, and I guess the bench thing as well is
also you know for quarteriers, you know, maybe you know
when things have slowed down a little, you injects a
player like that into the side, it may not necessarily
work as well for them when they're coming in from
when it won It's a completely different role starting a
test than coming in in fifty to fifty five minutes
(37:08):
and looking to make an impact.
Speaker 3 (37:10):
That way, you have a completely different role to change.
Speaker 4 (37:13):
If you think about longer term, we're talking about changing
the composition of the all blacks, loose forwards and you
bring in someone like can Roy guards fit well, Jordan's fit.
So you think about a possible bench of Quartez Atima,
Boden Barrett, Anton, Leonard Brown, Fletcher Newell, Dalton, Papa Lei.
(37:34):
That is a powerful asset to have and a potential
match turning impact and it is a massive part of
the modern game. So those dynamics will be will be
weighed heavily.
Speaker 2 (37:46):
Yeah, especially you know Boden Barrett maybe needs to play.
But a half back of field Black's going to go
to that seven to one bench.
Speaker 3 (37:51):
That stuff. Who does That's the way tears Rugby's gone.
Speaker 5 (37:53):
Perhaps why not? I mean he did he did it
all on Saturday night, Eden Parke didn't there.
Speaker 3 (37:58):
He did indeed?
Speaker 2 (37:59):
Right, final topic in our final four on rugby drinks,
give us a rating for the first two tests. Let's
go out of ten for this one. How would you
assist the all Blacks out of ten.
Speaker 4 (38:08):
Okay, yes, I'm a historically tough, harsh marker. Potentially I'm
going to say a six. I weigh that against the
fact that they've had a limited window of opportunity to
bring the squad together, a new coaching team, the post
World Cup departure's influential Rattelic White, Lock, Muanga Frazelle, Aaron Smith.
(38:32):
You know, the list goes on there. But Dell Blacks
have looked suddenly vulnerable and I think most people probably
expected a bit more. Maybe that was over selling Razor's influence,
but deal Black set are very high standard and they're
going to need to improve significantly. You're a hard marker,
(38:55):
I am.
Speaker 3 (38:55):
If I move on dancing with the stars, I hope
you want to judge.
Speaker 4 (38:58):
I'll say what you're dancing. I'm given straight tens, mate,
I'll pay to see that.
Speaker 2 (39:04):
I'm giving seven out of ten. They won both tests.
That's test rugby. You beat a very very strong team
like England twice in your own backyard, didn't play anywhere
near your potential. Still got a lot to go still
on both tests, two or two seven out of ten.
I set a high bar, mate, What can I say
(39:25):
that's all right, all right, that'll about do us for
Rugby Direct. You've got to arrest your voice. Fortunately we've
got through the week with no further injuries. Thank you
for all your concern last week, both in purpose person
and privately around the injury. That's some real Brittleian dished
out brittle bones kelseium deficit. I think, as we mentioned
(39:47):
a couple of times this week, but that will do
us for Rugby Direct. We back next week. We'll wrap
up the Fiji Test in San Diego. Until next time,
I thanks to Last and Bars English for producing this
podcast and Access Solutions as well for their sponsorship of
Rugby Direct, elevating you and your business to a high level.
Speaker 1 (40:08):
For more from Newstalk st B, listen live on air
or online, and keep our shows with you wherever you
go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio
You're listening to a podcast from News Talks EDB. Follow
this and our Wide Ranger podcast now on iHeartRadio. Yet
inside the Game from every angle. It's Rugby Direct with
Elliott Smith, powered by News Talks EDB.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Welcome into Rugby Direct par By Access Solutions, elevating you
and your business to a higher level Elligance Smith, News
Talks Lead Rugby commentator with me as always Liam Napier
from The New Zealand Hero, Chief sports correspondent rugby writer.
Liam will recording this on Sunday afternoon. We've done us
the last couple of weeks. Just something a bit different
(00:45):
Black fans fans, I mean, we won't have anything elsis
of the result, but it's gone like.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
The previous twenty six tests.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
The Black fans hopefully have gone to twenty seven this afternoon,
but we'll have more on that next week. Let's review though,
the All Blacks when over England twenty four seventeen and
similar last week to last week, Liam, the All Blacks
having to dig deep and find a way out of
the arm wrestle against the English again, I was.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
Gonna say didn't have their own way.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
They barely had anything go their way, really, they couldn't
implement their game plan once again. But somehow, after two tests,
this All Blacks group, this coaching staff, this team is unbeaten.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
What did you make of the second test at Eden Park.
Speaker 4 (01:31):
Well, here we are on Sunday, It's God's Day and
I think the All Blacks will be worshiping Boden Barrats
for another great escape, because as you say, it was
another really torrid night for the All Blacks and it
was a very familiar script in that the All Blacks
started quite well. They had some brilliant breakout moments on
(01:53):
the counter attack that they didn't finish. Execution was off
again there and they struggled in similar areas that the
line out was an abomination in the first half. They
did make some adjustments there, but in the first half
alone they lost five three of their throw and two
complete fumbles. Maratoji had a field day across the field
(02:14):
for sixty minutes. Really troubled them at the line out.
The breakdown and restarts just a complete menace. The All
Blacks struggled ball carrying wires, which we'll go into a
bit deeper later. But to really get over that vantage
line to build phases, they got pinned in their half
England's kicking game again, they struggled to get out. England
(02:36):
really just couldn't find that killer punch and they had
so many opportunities that they had the weight of possession
of territory and they couldn't quite put the All Blacks away.
And then the All Blacks bench again was a telling
factor in coming over the top of England. But it
was another very near thing for Scott robertson Scott Robinson's
All Blacks.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Let's talk about the line out first and foremost. As
you mentioned, the Marotoji had a field day with the
All Blacks line out. They couldn't get it right in
the first half, although I think in the second they
didn't lose one on their own throw in their managed
to get a couple of steals of English bullets sort of.
The ship was righted a bit towards the end of
the game, but we saw it last week indeed, and
(03:17):
they lost three lineouts on their own throw as well.
It just seems really really clunky. Now they don't have
a specialist line out coach or a set piece coach
in the environment, but they have a throwing coach.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
Exactly Cory Flynn, and it also had.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
Fools under Jason Ryan's remits in terms of the set
piece as well. So Scott Barrett's All Black captain was
asked about it in the postmatch media conference and sort
of said there was a couple of reasons why around it,
but not really clear exactly the reasons why. But a
couple of weeks in a row that strength of the
All Blacks has been really clunky and it's you know,
(03:54):
they had ample ball position last night. If they could
get the line out right, they could have built an attack,
but they just fumbled it on the line out and
then put themselves back under pressure.
Speaker 4 (04:04):
I think, first and foremost, this is a fundamental area
of the game. You have to get right because set
piece is so crucial to launching your attack, your strike
moves so in the modern game, not necessarily just the
modern game, but it's a real pillar to get right,
and if you don't, you're crippled at the knees. So
(04:25):
they'll bleck scrum. Extremely dominant in both tests, but their
line out kneecapped them. And it is a major consumer
because you know, in the post rodiootelic and I'm going
to say a lot more so Sam Whitelock because he
is the line out guru, he was the lineout caller.
He did so much study on opposition lineouts such and
(04:48):
never has Sam Whitelock's absence been more telling than in
these two tests. And Scott Barrett talked about miss miscommunication
and caught and calling being two issues on the night,
and that was very evident in one throw where Cody
Taylor They'll Blecks, threw their line out jumper up, he
came down and Cody Taylor threw the ball straight tomorra
(05:09):
a ToJ who hadn't left the ground. That's just basic
stuff that should not be happening at All Black level
and it's something that they need to amend. They started
off throwing to Ardie Severe short at the front of
the line out. They tried short lineouts and nothing really worked.
That They did amend it to a degree in the
second half, and as you mentioned, I think Patrick Tupelotu
(05:31):
and Ardie Severe got some crucial steals in the second half.
That's great, but you got to win your own ball.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
Yeah, and that game could have been different if the
All Blacks get their own ball. A couple of times
that first half. They were in the right position of
the field. They could have put some pressure on England
and attack that way. They didn't, and that's I think
perhaps the story of the first couple of tests, at
least for me, is that the All Blacks have had
some opportunities, they haven't had the killer instincts. They've obviously
(05:58):
scored a couple of tries in each test, but they
have lacked that killer instinct. I think obviously the lineout
last night where they fumbled that and weren't quite ruthless enough.
There there was the back and forth try with Petafetta
and Mark Taliah and tale just through it perhaps in
your throat and taed higher to evade the Marcus Smith
(06:19):
coming through and tacking it in the first spell Scoore.
That game opens up a little bit similar story in
danneed in the previous week. There are opportunities there for
the All Blacks, but they're just lacking the ability to
ice some of.
Speaker 3 (06:33):
Those things at the moment they are.
Speaker 4 (06:35):
In that Pedifeta Taliah instance, It's very easy to say
on reflection or from the coaching or you know, press
box that had Petifetter actually gone inside he had some
unmarked support runners. And there was another instance where I
think Damien McKenzie and Jordi Barrett a breakout and it
(06:56):
finished with Cody Taylor throwing a bit of a wild
offload that was unnecessary.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
Yeah, Cody tug on between two if you just go to.
Speaker 5 (07:02):
Ground and reset.
Speaker 4 (07:03):
So those just those patients and execution can be really
costly because at this level there's only a couple of
moments that you get to take to get right, and
the All Blacks aren't doing that, and then you allow
the opposition there too, and that there is going to
be swings in momentum.
Speaker 5 (07:21):
Look, I think you know we.
Speaker 4 (07:23):
Have focused on some negatives, so it's only right that
we talk about some positives. The scrum extremely dominant, and
that is rare for an English team. You know, they
are traditionally very strong at set peace and they were
at lineout and restarts. But the All Blacks crush their
scrum in derned and there's a lot of talk about
Ethan the group's technical issues. I think Brian Moore and
(07:46):
the Telegraph and made a big deal of it, and
the All Blacks still stuffed them. So that is a
weapon that the All Blacks can build on and the
key thing for them is it is maintained when their
bench come on. Fletcher Newle tight hair prop led a
big scrum penalty that allowed the All Blacks to push
out further. I think defensively the All Blacks need to
(08:07):
get better at coming off the line and being a
bit more aggressive and dominant with their carries. But they
did absorb a lot of England pressure, a lot of
England possession and not allow them to score Boden Barrett,
who will talk about some more holding up Jamie and
George at the end, so some real desperation and care
in that regard. But yeah, I think on the whole
(08:30):
there are a lot more improvements than positives when you
reflect across those two tests.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
Yeah, that scrum is a weapon, and it was even
more so. I think as you pointed out that there
been some issues raised by Brian Moore and others in
the Northern Hemisphere around the scrummaging technique of Ethan de Greut,
and for that to come out during the week and
then still to get those rewards at scrum time I
think will be a pretty happy feeling in terms of
(08:57):
the front row and then what they're able to do
for the All Blacks, and Scott Robinson said as much
in the postmatch media conference. He's like, well, we took
notice of it and still got the penalties out of it,
so that's a really good sign for Ethan de Groot.
I think the defense wise is a positive, although last
night they were also out done twice by crossfield kicks.
Speaker 3 (09:21):
And England managed to get them there.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
That the scramble or the defensive reset offer high kickers
probably something they need to work on. It just feels
like they didn't read it right on either occasion and
that cost them two tries in the end. But defensively wise,
they as you said, absorbed a lot of preciure. There
was ten to fifteen minutes in that first spell where
they had to felt like twenty twenty five almost minutes
(09:46):
in the second spell where they were just camped down
their own ends of Eden Park and couldn't get out
of there for love nor money, and again England would reset,
refire and the All Blacks would defend. So that's a
positive in some ways, but you can't be doing every
test like that, and I think through two tests England
haven't allowed them to necessarily. But the All Blacks we
(10:08):
have I've seen exactly what this game plan under Scott
Robertson and co. Is actually going to be.
Speaker 4 (10:13):
No, it's not evident, is it. And I think the
coming back to the lineout when you're giving up that
set piece platform and giving their possession so easily back
to the opposition that forces you to defend for long periods,
and England will rue a couple of instances. I think
it was Oli Lawrence twice dropped the ball in England's
in the All Blacks twenty two under pressure I think
(10:34):
from Rikowane on defense. So you know, there were countless
opportunities that England had to strike and they did only
really through those crossfield kicks. I'm going to throw something
else that you hear. So it seems very evident to
me that the All Blacks four pack, I don't know
if they're undersized. I don't think that's accurate necessarily, but
they are lacking big, damaging, destructive ball carriers. They're not
(10:58):
getting over the game line enough. And when you look
at that pack there should be you know those players there.
Patrick Twoplot is a big man, some a penny female
I would argue, has not carried his enforcer status from
Super Rugby through to the Test arena. Artie Severe had
one strong charge off a penalty that led to Mark
(11:18):
t Lea's opening try, but that was a rarity. So
why are they all blacks not finding these ball carriers
and where do they go to to get them?
Speaker 2 (11:30):
Well, I think that's a very interesting question, and I
don't know that they necessarily exist. And I don't know
whether it's the New Zealand just in general the body
size of humans that New Zealander is produced, or whether
they're not playing rugby. But you look at Super Rugby,
it's not like these players are being missed at Super
Rugby level and aren't being elevated to all Blacks level.
Speaker 3 (11:52):
I don't know whether it's a size issue.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
From what I hear, a lot of tall players are
now going down the basketball route and not playing as
much rugby. So it's a fundamental how do you get
these players that are big bodies into rugby in the
first place, not at alone get them to all blacks level.
So that's what they're singing, and I think that's why
they put so much resource into Josh Lord, who we
really haven't seen a lot of even at Super Rugby level,
(12:15):
but they know that he is that big frame more
than two meters tool that if they can get him
up to All Black speed, then he is going to
be the kind of body that they want to be imposing,
be that threat. Fabian Horn not eligible yet for the
All Blacks, but he looks like a really big frame
that the All Blacks could use at test level. But
he's still what just over a year away from being eligible.
(12:35):
So that's the kind of body size they're looking at
when it comes to the loose Fore trio. Sampini Fina
has that size, but I don't think we've seen a
couple of great tests from him. It looks like a
big steep up from Super rugby to Test rugby for him.
We're talking about some changes later on, but I would
I'd really like to see the All Blacks put Artie
Savia back to open side flank and try Wallace to Titi.
Speaker 3 (12:59):
At number eight.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
And you may maybe you can play female at blindside
still or you go someone like a black Adder or
maybe even Jacobson. But if you have Ardisa Via Ander
Wallace Satiti and there that gives you two strong carriers
in the loose Ford trio, but also two defensive bodies
as well. Instantly feels it, instantly feels more powerful. You're
not you're changing things up. And Don Papalti, I don't
(13:22):
think he's play badly in these couple of teats, but
I just don't think he's got that imposing prisons that
Tess Rugby now demands. You. Look at those English players,
marwit Toji, George Martin in the second row, the loose
Ford trio. They are big bodies and they have bulk
about them. When I think the All Blacks that the
frames are just a little bit slighter having done the
(13:43):
kg versus kg and how they stack up, but it
just feels there's a little bit of size lacking from
the All Blacks.
Speaker 4 (13:49):
I think there's a real debate to be had about
the composition of the All Blacks loose forwards. And I
agree that Scott Robinson sort of as you mentioned, we're
going to talk about changes later, but he's flagged that
the remaining squad Rockies will likely get a chance against
Fiji in this final July Test. And Wallace a Titi
is the guy that we need to see because he
(14:10):
is a point of difference.
Speaker 5 (14:11):
He is a big body.
Speaker 4 (14:12):
He is a destructive ball carrier and he brings so
much more size to the back of the scrum and
almost completely changes the dynamic of the potential loose forward trio.
Ethan Blackett is another interesting proposition. What's his best position
through the All Black Sam at open side or blindside?
He's going to come into the mix next week. He's
(14:33):
not necessarily a huge body, but he is very combative
in the way he plays the game.
Speaker 5 (14:38):
So I with you.
Speaker 4 (14:39):
I'd love to see Satiti and Ardie play together. Sam
Kaines on the fringe. He made his return in Toto
on Club Rugby, ironically playing at blindsides because there was
a very compelling hotdophenoal Carpety open side that he couldn't
push out of the starting lineup. But that's one aspect
(15:00):
the All Black loose Ford's trio which needs a look,
potentially needs a rethink. I also think they're missing Somasoni Takiajo,
who didn't necessarily have the best Super Rugby season, came
into some form towards the back end of the year,
but he is another big body, noted ball carrying presence,
so his presence I think is also being missed, but
(15:22):
that that whole ball carrying aspect is a big factor
for why the All Blacks aren't getting on the front
foot and why they're struggling to get around the rush defense.
It's so much easier if you have more time and
space if you're going forward.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
A couple of things still from last night. Cortez Ratama
comes off the bench becomes All Black number one two
hundred and fourteen, replacing Findlay Christie who went off for
an Hia.
Speaker 3 (15:43):
I thought, very tidy.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
What was it twenty eight minutes in the end that
Cortez Ratama I got on debut instantly and combined with
Bowden Barrett just ring those the attack a little bit
and he was quicker passing wires, just added some some
speed to things that it felt like the All Blacks
were going very much through the motions and sometimes you
need that spark off the bench and Cortez Ratama I
(16:07):
think could be very very happy with his test table.
Speaker 5 (16:10):
Well, big time. He was exceptional.
Speaker 4 (16:12):
He came on and his first box kick to touch
was very shaky, it went out, but that allowed him
to settle and he heard him postmatch talking and he said,
you know, anxiety and nerves were bubbling within and but
he definitely grew into the game and you're right his
speed to the base, his delivery was very evident and
(16:33):
a significant lift so him and Bowden in terms of
the speed, the decisiveness, the pace that the All Blacks
were able to inject and that sort of final quarter
was really telling. It won them in the game. And
when you compare Cortez to Finlay Christie, Christy did some
very good things on defense. He pinned Ben Earle off
(16:53):
the back of a scrum on one occasion, and his
first tackle the game in combination I think it was
with Cody Taylor lifted up one of the English ball
carriers and drove them back. So defensively, Finlay Christy is
the best defensive half back in New Zealand. But the
way the All Blacks want to play with pace and
tempo and speed from the base, get in, get out,
(17:13):
get the opposition, defense back pedaling. Cortez Ratima is that
guy and he needs to start. He infinitely fits that
mold so much more so. He couldn't have done anything
more to state his case to start against Fiji, And
in my mind, has usurped Finlay Christie in one match.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
Do you think that the All Blacks selectors and coaching
staff will agree with that?
Speaker 4 (17:38):
Though, Look, I think they will be a lot more.
They've been very conservative to this point, haven't. They only
made injury and forced changes between the two Tests. But
this Fiji Test is their chance. So I hope that
they will start Cortez. I'm not entirely sure they will,
but it sounds like TJ. Petina will not travel to
(18:00):
San Diego, so Noah hotheam, we'll probably go. So Finlay
Christie and Cortez are your two half backs had to
start give quarters ago.
Speaker 5 (18:11):
It just makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
We're going to get into a Boden Barons and made
on the game that later on the Final four before
we wrap up the game though, Liam just on England
and what they've brought to the series. They look like
a team that is on the rise, and I think
Steve Borthwick's got them humming along quite nicely with you.
With a look to twenty twenty seven, very very young team.
A lot of those players will be there in twenty
(18:34):
twenty seven. They'll have a couple more test years under
the belt. Marotoji is standing up well exceeded as maximum
minutes for the season that he's supposed to play, but
you wouldn't have known it for at least sixty minutes
last night before it. Perhaps he got a little bit
tired and gave Way a couple of penalties. But this
looks like an England team that is really promising heading
into Australia. Lots of like about it. Marcus Smith I
(18:55):
thought was excellent last night. Alex Mitchell is a very
very good half back list and interesting outside backs. So
the signs I think are positive for England. And their
next test is against the All Blacks in November at
twickt Him. They'll have fresh leagues there, they'll fancy the
chances of getting the job done on home soil. But
a lot to luck about this England team.
Speaker 4 (19:14):
They are resurgent in a big way and they have
so many more threats than they had what's six months ago?
Seven months ago at the World Cup. You mentioned Marcus Mitchell.
I'm a big fan of Mitchell. He's a dynamic running presence,
very accurate box kicker as well. Marcus Smith brings a
very different dynamic. This is an England team that still
(19:35):
has George Cruz to come back. Alice Ginge will make
a big difference to their front row and George Ford
not sure where he factors in, but very experienced playmaker.
And look this England team, they had a crack that
they chanced their arm at times. They threw everything into
it at the end of their long season. I think
(19:55):
Steve Borthwick is a very astute coach. He's had success
at club level. He's evolved Felix Jones and made a
massive difference with his rush defense that he's brought from
the spring box. They've got a couple of twenty one
year old prospects and Emmanuel and Channeler Comingham South who
look real comers. They just have multiple threats and they
(20:20):
are only going to get better. Maro Toji was out
on his feet for the last twenty months of that game.
Those surprises there, but you had a bit of locking depth.
With Cruise coming back, they are going to be a
real threat and I think teams are starting to sit
up and take notice of where England are and we've
got to give them credit because this was a really
tough start to attendure for Scott Robertson. This wasn't Wales
(20:42):
or Fiji or Australia at a low to a degree
that this was a real live threat and England would
have should have potentially won one both of those tests.
And yeah, they are going to be you look ahead
to November. Twicking them is a very tough place to
win and they'll be well fired up for that.
Speaker 3 (21:02):
They will be.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
Indeed, we'll take a quick break here on Rugby Direct,
come back with our final four after this, power to
always by Excess Solutions elevating you and your business to
a higher level.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
This is Rugby Direct, a podcast for real rugby fans.
Ruct Howard Biese.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
Talks You're back with Rugby Direct powered by Excess Solutions
elevating you and your business to a higher level. Before
we get back into the All Blacks, that's take away
pit stop and divert ourselves to some of the other
games that went on during the weekends. Be nice to
watch all of them, but it is certainly not possible
with the number of hours in the day. But wow's
(21:47):
again similar story to the All Blacks in England. Similar
game to last week between Wales and Australia, but Australia
just kick on late to win that one. Ireland pitp
South Africa. Georgia beat Japan, Samoa held to a close
one over Spain. I think I'm missing a couple of
others to Italy bin Tonga. So it's been a festival
(22:07):
of rugby. What's stood out for you?
Speaker 4 (22:10):
There's a lot to take innocent there. As you mentioned,
I think Argentina got up over over France and there's
certainly plenty going on in the French camp. They're in
a bit of disarray with what's happening off the field there.
But look, I think the most notable victory across the
board there is the Irish. That's a massive win in
South Africa. They had a number of injury challenges. I
(22:32):
think they benched their captain Peter o'many, but Bunda a
Kay didn't play and a late drop goal from Frawley
tipping the scales there. That's a huge win away from
home to level the series against the world champions, giving
given everything that Russy's pumped up and thrown around, they
(22:54):
were very conciliatory postmatch that the Springboks applauding Islands. Big
big result because I think Ireland in a way have
to regenerate that team. But there's a number of aging
players and it's going to be interesting to see how
they do that. But to recover from being reasonably well beaten,
I thought the score floated them week one there big
(23:17):
big result for Islands. The Welsh Wallabies game was what
I saw of. It was a good spectacle. Still two
teams struggling to find their way. Australia have a lot
of work to do they I think they're up seventeen
nil in allowed Wales to really storm back into that contest.
But look, it's a positive start for Schmid. Two wins
(23:38):
starting from an extremely low ebb.
Speaker 3 (23:40):
And well, yeah, I'll tell you what.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
Georgia coming into town in Australia next week on the
back of their win over Japan. That's not an easy
test next week for Australia either. No, in a very
different proposition in the way that Georgia play. They'll try
and squeeze her and target the scrum and a lot
of different pressure points. I just want to read something
to you here so and it puts into context for
me the Dave Renni era and the massive cock up
(24:05):
from Australian rugby to get rid of a various coach
The first four games of Dave and his tenure were
against pell Blacks. Seven of the first twelve were against
cel Blacks. He would have liked to have played Wales.
Yeah exactly, Yeah, exactly, especially a Wales team at the
moment that is at a very from my mind low
Ebb with audue respect, lost some of those generational players
(24:27):
that have been there. As we mentioned last week, I
think Warren Gatland is yesterday's man and not the right
coach to lead this rebuild what this team needs. If
you cast you right at twenty twenty seven, I'm not
sure Warren Gatland's playing Warren balls the future for a
young Welsh team. So yeah, Joe Schmitz had a couple
of tests against Wales to get started Georgia next week.
(24:49):
But if we look at it, I guess Liam, the
South Africa Island, all Blacks, England at France and there
as well. There's not much between say the top five
teams and world rugby at the moment.
Speaker 5 (25:00):
No, not at all.
Speaker 4 (25:01):
On their day even any of those teams could tip
each other up. And it does come down to execution,
a refereeing decision, home advantage, a few injuries here and there,
you know, It is going to be fascinating to see
the plot lines and the results that play out over
the course of this year, let alone the coming years
between those nations, and it does look like there's a
(25:23):
real break between those nations and the Australia and Wales
of the world.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
They do it does Indeed, Tommy number sway what changes
for the All Blacks as they had to San Diego?
As I mentioned, we're recording this on Sunday afternoon. Some
thought from Scott Robinson they may leave a couple of
players behind. They hadn't finalized their traveling squad at the
time of recording this, but I think we can assume
that the remaining four debutantes likely to play in San Diego,
(25:51):
so it could be a much changed team. I guess
if we work through it from one to fifteen, you know,
would you start do you start give off of this
off of throng A fussy and Fletcher knew all the
starts in the front row, perhaps alongside a softfer on
Moer and go that way in the front row.
Speaker 5 (26:09):
Yes'm interesting to see quite how far they go with it.
Speaker 4 (26:12):
Isn't it that would make sense because it would allow
you to bring Pasilio Tossi onto the bench for his
potential debut, and then you go to the locking department.
Whether Scott Barrett starts because he's captain or maybe Artie
carries the captaincy for this one, but you would think
to provide would come into the second row there. They
(26:34):
don't have another second row in the squad. Whether Sam
Dowry has taken over there, we don't know at this point,
and we've discussed the composition of the loose forwards. What
do you want to see there?
Speaker 2 (26:46):
Well that I would like to see potentially, you know,
black at a Sava Stiti. Whether they go with that,
there's another matter entirely. They may go blackout of Jacobsen
Satiti potentially, But I think they're also if we look
at it from a wider angle, they don't want to
make it's gonna be tricky. They want to get those
combinations still going and also get these players on the park.
(27:07):
So it's a fine balance for Scorobson and in selectors.
Speaker 4 (27:10):
It is because, as you mentioned, the style of game
that the Illbacks are trying to play has not been
evident to this point, and they do have some real
pressure points where they need to improve. So if you're
throwing a whole bunch of new players, a whole bunch
of new combinations, history tells us that you're going to
get a clunky performance. And look, the last thing you
want to do is just lose to Fiji.
Speaker 3 (27:30):
So I guess we look at the backs.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
Liam, we mentioned Cortez right to me, you would think
going to start Christie on the bench.
Speaker 3 (27:36):
Ten's an interesting one.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
Boden Barrett, do they give him a crack at ten
or do you go with McKenzie and go Okay, you
haven't necessarily set the world on fire first two weeks,
but here's your chance against Fiji to get that confidence
back up.
Speaker 4 (27:50):
I think if you're looking long term, the McKenzie at
ten Bodemen at fallback makes more sense because you might
want to develop that combination. But I think if you
ask Bowden he'd want to start at ten. So it
is going to be really interesting to see how they
manage that dynamic. Damian mc kinsey, what's been your read
on his performances to tests?
Speaker 3 (28:12):
And well, he hasn't played with a lot of front football.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
I think his kicking game has been okay, but last
night they all blacks needed to get out of trouble
a couple of times and just didn't have the kind
of boot from Damie mckinziy or the kind of nouse
just to play fuel position and get them entering up
the park. And it was felt like they were scrambling
at ten and or at nine and ten for a while,
(28:37):
especially in that second half when they were campdown inside
their own thirty meters or thereabouts. So they need to
find a bit of there and that's on the team
to take a bit of ownership. But around that and
you know, get them into the right areas of the park.
And you can blame the Fords and not getting that
front football necessarily and a few issues around there, but
does fall on the ten as well.
Speaker 4 (28:57):
I think the All Blacks tactical kicking contestable tactical kicking
was not great and the second test for la Chrissy's
box kicks were often very long and that allowed England
just to swallow position and come back. And yeah McKenzie
did well for that. Try to see Vorice from a
crossfield kick in Dunedin, but didn't see a lot of
(29:20):
that's at Eden Park. It was only really when Boden
Barrett came on having sat on the bench and surveyed
the game that the ablets kicking game started to come
to the four.
Speaker 5 (29:30):
So I think you're right.
Speaker 4 (29:31):
That's a big improvement that they'll be looking for.
Speaker 3 (29:34):
Let's go the wings.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
Look the morning at Laua and Caleb Clark haven't had
any game time as yet. Feels fairly obvious that you
put both of those players in.
Speaker 4 (29:43):
Yeah, I think so, and it's I feel like it's
a lot easier to change wings than it is a
locking combination. You know, those are two guys, particularly Clark
who was scored a hat trick in the Super Aby
Final and would potentially feel hard done by that. He
hasn't had a crack to this point, particularly given his
aerial abilities and the way England liked to attack. So yeah,
(30:05):
you'd think they'd both come in and the midfield a
bit of a well, it's Anton, Lena Brown and Billy
Proctor who's yet today boot They would potentially make sense
as a combination. Anton probably more accustomed to center, but
is very comfortable at second five as well. But do
(30:26):
you want to retain a bit of continuity.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
Yeah, that's the thing is if you get rid of everyone,
you lose that continuity that you've had for the last
couple of tests, and wouldn't surprise me to maybe see
Leonard Brown at twelve, Yuanni at thirteen still and then
add Billy Proctor coming off the bench. I don't think
Rico Yuani look that great in the first couple of tests,
(30:49):
hasn't made the impact. I thought he went looking for
a bit more work last night and tried it, just
couldn't really get things going. So I wondered whether Rico
Uani gets another outing at center with Anton and Brown
inside them.
Speaker 4 (31:00):
Yeah, there's all sorts of ways that you could divv
that up, isn't it Jordi Barrett and Billy Proctor as
a combination. But I think Anton and a Brown as
the next cab off the rank, so he needs a start.
And you're right in terms of genuine line breaks that
didn't come from counter attacks, it's hard to remember any
really from the All Blacks, and Rico falls into that category.
(31:22):
So you've got to be wary that the All Blacks
are playing fourteen tests this year, so they do need
to rotate, they do fall back.
Speaker 2 (31:29):
I'd stat with Steven Peter Fetter if you're not starting
voting Barrett at ten. I think Parafetter with another go.
I remembering him that big block of Super Rugby as
well through injury, So not like he's overly desperate for
a break. He wouldn't have thought. So it's gonna be
fascinating that all backs team out as always around lunch
time on Thursday time after topic three in the Final
(31:53):
four here on Rugby Direct. So I've labeled this one
the Bowden Barrett conundrum Liam because his performance last night
was exceptional off the bench, plugged in for what half
an hour roughly coming on and change the game is tech.
All kicking was immense pinned England back and those all
away switches in the game, you know, momentum was all
(32:14):
with England, and then in the matter of a couple
of moments, Boden Barrett put it all back on England's
shoulders and put the all Blacks in the ascendency, set
up Mark to lay for that try as well with
a lovely break he took on the line first and foremost.
If we get into what this means, just a very
very good performance from Boden Barrett coming off the bench.
Speaker 5 (32:34):
It was exceptional wasn't it.
Speaker 4 (32:35):
And I genuinely don't think the All Blacks won that
Test without that sort of performance. And that's not been
hyperbole or anything. It's just how much influence he had
and all the instances that he touched on, and it
was just how decisive he was, having sat on the bench,
surveyed the match, knowing what was required, knowing where the
(32:57):
space was, influencing the game with his kicking, running, passing,
he really was the triple threat that the All Blacks
needed and it was a It's a back to the
future performance, isn't it. Because Bodens started his career one
hundred and twenty odd tests ago being that super sub
impact guy for the All Blacks coming on changing the
game with his pace and he's not that player to
(33:21):
a degree, but that really was what he brought at
the start of his All Blacks career. And the conundrum,
as you put it, is having performed that role, so well,
how do you go away from that?
Speaker 2 (33:36):
Do you go away for a look. I think Boden's
been clear that he wants a go at ten at
some point that will be commeda at im sure whether
it's this speak against VG, but whether it's the long
term strategy of the All Blacks.
Speaker 3 (33:45):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (33:45):
I think the long term strategy if you look four years,
is Richid Morgan comes back. But I think when the
All Blacks was strong, especially in that period from twenty
ten to let's say about twenty seventeen, the bench was exceptional,
really good, and it could change Test matches when it
came on and through experienced players going players being elevated
(34:06):
to the starting side. It was like perhaps the last
four or five years they haven't had that kick from
the bench that they would necessarily want or did have
in that previous period. And for me, I think, without
wanting to pigeonhole him, if you can get thirty minutes
of boat and bear it out like that in a
Test match when he's coming in watching things off the
bench and playing against some tired legs, he's seen opportunity
(34:31):
to sum things up off the bench and go Okay,
maybe this tactical work, maybe I can do this, this
and this. That is valuable to the All Blacks. And
I think if you can get the bench ride, that
helps you win Test matches more often than not in
the way that modern rugby's played. So for me at
the moment, I'd keep him on the bench.
Speaker 4 (34:51):
I think the doors still a jar at ten because
as we've touched on, McKenzie hasn't commanded that role. He
hasn't nawed that role down, So that's an open discussion
going forward. But longer term will Jordan, you would think,
is going to be the bolted on fullback, and so
that does lea You've boden in a compromise position to
a degree that and having performed that role so well
(35:15):
and his flexibility in covering both ten and fifteen, it
just makes him so ideal for that super sub role.
But it's not a discussion that's going to go away.
He will have some starts, presumably at first five to
accommodate his desire to play there and his experience in
that role. But in recent history he hasn't commanded that
(35:38):
role either and challenged the line and brought everything that
you want from a first five. And for the All Blacks,
he has in recent time has been largely a fullback,
so it would be a paradigm shift to a degree.
So look at this stage, I think the All Blacks
would be reluctant to go away from it.
Speaker 5 (35:56):
Against in their big tests.
Speaker 4 (35:58):
Fiji different proposition, Australia Puma's maybe a different proposition. But
if you're playing the spring box tomorrow in South Africa,
while would you go away from that because it works
so well? But it is going to be dependent to
a degree about how Will Jordan comes back. He's been
out all year with shoulder surgery and it's a big
ass to walk straight back into Test rugby and dominate
(36:21):
in a position that you haven't played at Test level.
Speaker 5 (36:24):
We've seen the step.
Speaker 4 (36:25):
Up from Super rugby, so I don't think it's an
automatic that Will Jordan's going to be exceptional straight off
the bat there either. So there's a few things to
play out there. But at this point it does seem
like Boden long term is destined to perform that role.
Whether he's happy and comfortable in that, he's always going
to say that publicly privately, every player wants to.
Speaker 2 (36:48):
Start, and I guess the bench thing as well is
also you know for quarteriers, you know, maybe you know
when things have slowed down a little, you injects a
player like that into the side, it may not necessarily
work as well for them when they're coming in from
when it won It's a completely different role starting a
test than coming in in fifty to fifty five minutes
(37:08):
and looking to make an impact.
Speaker 3 (37:10):
That way, you have a completely different role to change.
Speaker 4 (37:13):
If you think about longer term, we're talking about changing
the composition of the all blacks, loose forwards and you
bring in someone like can Roy guards fit well, Jordan's fit.
So you think about a possible bench of Quartez Atima,
Boden Barrett, Anton, Leonard Brown, Fletcher Newell, Dalton, Papa Lei.
(37:34):
That is a powerful asset to have and a potential
match turning impact and it is a massive part of
the modern game. So those dynamics will be will be
weighed heavily.
Speaker 2 (37:46):
Yeah, especially you know Boden Barrett maybe needs to play.
But a half back of field Black's going to go
to that seven to one bench.
Speaker 3 (37:51):
That stuff. Who does That's the way tears Rugby's gone.
Speaker 5 (37:53):
Perhaps why not? I mean he did he did it
all on Saturday night, Eden Parke didn't there.
Speaker 3 (37:58):
He did indeed?
Speaker 2 (37:59):
Right, final topic in our final four on rugby drinks,
give us a rating for the first two tests. Let's
go out of ten for this one. How would you
assist the all Blacks out of ten.
Speaker 4 (38:08):
Okay, yes, I'm a historically tough, harsh marker. Potentially I'm
going to say a six. I weigh that against the
fact that they've had a limited window of opportunity to
bring the squad together, a new coaching team, the post
World Cup departure's influential Rattelic White, Lock, Muanga Frazelle, Aaron Smith.
(38:32):
You know, the list goes on there. But Dell Blacks
have looked suddenly vulnerable and I think most people probably
expected a bit more. Maybe that was over selling Razor's influence,
but deal Black set are very high standard and they're
going to need to improve significantly. You're a hard marker,
(38:55):
I am.
Speaker 3 (38:55):
If I move on dancing with the stars, I hope
you want to judge.
Speaker 4 (38:58):
I'll say what you're dancing. I'm given straight tens, mate,
I'll pay to see that.
Speaker 2 (39:04):
I'm giving seven out of ten. They won both tests.
That's test rugby. You beat a very very strong team
like England twice in your own backyard, didn't play anywhere
near your potential. Still got a lot to go still
on both tests, two or two seven out of ten.
I set a high bar, mate, What can I say
(39:25):
that's all right, all right, that'll about do us for
Rugby Direct. You've got to arrest your voice. Fortunately we've
got through the week with no further injuries. Thank you
for all your concern last week, both in purpose person
and privately around the injury. That's some real Brittleian dished
out brittle bones kelseium deficit. I think, as we mentioned
(39:47):
a couple of times this week, but that will do
us for Rugby Direct. We back next week. We'll wrap
up the Fiji Test in San Diego. Until next time,
I thanks to Last and Bars English for producing this
podcast and Access Solutions as well for their sponsorship of
Rugby Direct, elevating you and your business to a high level.
Speaker 1 (40:08):
For more from Newstalk st B, listen live on air
or online, and keep our shows with you wherever you
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Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.