September 22, 2024 • 43 mins
This week on Rugby Direct, Elliott Smith and Liam Napier review the Bledisloe Cup opener in Sydney - and how the All Blacks nearly let what was heading for a comfortable win turn into a nervy defeat.
We again try to answer what is going wrong in the last 20 minutes of test matches and what changes might be in the offing for Wellington.
We run through a controversial ANZAC rugby side of the professional era, as well as look back at Sam Cane's test career ahead of his probable 100th match this weekend.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
You're listening to a podcast from News Talks. It be
follow this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio.
Inside the Game from every angle. It's Rugby Direct with
Elliott Smith, powered.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
By News Talks.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
It be Welcome into Rugby to Riggs powered by Excess Solutions,
elevating you and your business through a high level. Well, Liam,
we're back for another week, Elliott Smith, lillam Apire and
we have departed sunny Sydney for Wendy Wellington. As we
come to you this week, building up too bleddersload, too
sad to leave the sun behind and the Kuji Pavilion
(00:46):
behind and.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Everything else that with Sydney.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
But we have some more work to do and the
the All Blacks have another test to build before.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
But it was a great week in Sydney. It was
great city, interesting results, interesting tests and look at really
warms the arms of the heart, warms the cockles to
be in our nation's capital early. I know you're Maive
well Etric fans, so it's very very special for you
to have a homecoming.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
Well I was hoping to have a jersey to represent
my love of the city, but I've managed to somehow.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Not get that jersey. Yes, yes, I should have brought
that to present you, but that's witing for you. When
we get back to walk on a great special that
will be great.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
Right, Let's dive into this All Blacks Wallabies test in Sydney,
the All Blacks winning thirty one and twenty eight. I
guest the same old issues really cropping up for the
All Blacks, not taking their opportunities and then getting themselves
into a fourth quorder arm wrestle against an opponent. This
(01:46):
time they didn't end up on the winning side, but
almost to an extent, feels like a loss. Even Scott
Roberson no painting it, you know, as we've won the cup,
but you look at that and Neil Blacks really could
have belted the Wallabies and torched them.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Instead they just squeaked home. Really, yeah, you're right, it
does feel like a loss of many respects and I
think that was certainly the feedback coming through when the
WhatsApps was blowing up from people back home. A lot
of frustration, and I think that frustration stems from light
You say that the same endemic issues. Five tests in
(02:23):
a row now the All Blacks have failed to score
point beyond the fifty second minute. Three of those matches
are blowing massive leads, and this game they scored three
points after the twenty sixth minute. They're staggering, and particularly
given their start with the four triers. They blew the
Wallabies off the park and then allowed the Wallabies back
(02:46):
into the contest, and then it's their finishing to matches.
They've now had five yellow cards in their last three tests.
They are losing their heads. Their game management isn't there.
There's real questions about the on field leadership. And while
they did close out this match, it really was clinging
(03:07):
on for dear life, it was.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
And this team went from one that was playing some slick,
sublime rugby in the opening twenty five to thirty minutes
to be in the back twenty of them. And it's
a team that didn't look like they knew each other
and that it had just been thrust all the park
together for the first time. And I don't get how
you can go from that in the first half to
being so clunky, so disorganized, so lacking of a game
(03:31):
plan in the closing stages of the game. I think
if we flip it around a bit, I think there's
a bit of a tactic from the All Blacks to
try and blow teams off the park early and it's
worked to an extent because they managed to build up
some leads against South Africa in the first Eastern Johannesburg.
They've got to twenty seven to seventeen again on Argentina
Wellingson you think back to that. They got to lead
(03:53):
early in Auckland as well. They managed to do that,
but they don't seem to know how to play the
back end of the game. Great have a fast start,
but you've got to actually close out games. And it's
becoming a really big issue for this All Blacks team
that they just can't seem to not only finding points,
but just look like they're capable of doing anything in
the back close at half of games, they just as
(04:15):
you said, lacks some bonfield leadership and game management. And
that last twenty to thirty minutes on the weekend, and
if the game had gone five minutes longer, there's a
real chance they would have lost that.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
And I think the thing that highlights it most for
me is this was an area of strength for the
All Blacks for so long, and part of it is
to a degree, the erosion of debt right the bench.
The all Blacks used to have was phenomenal and they
were the ones that were fitter than everyone. They were
the ones that would come over top teams lates even
when they went at their best, and win matches that
(04:48):
they didn't deserve to win. You know, you think about
Irelands in Dublin with that great Ryan Krawdi tro or
there was another example in Australia where they won late.
I think it was Muller Kaifakatoa scored. There's countless examples
of this and now the script has been totally flipped
and there are extreme vulnerabilities there and it's a curse.
(05:12):
It's an unsolvable issue for Scott Robinson. And he's an
eternal optimist, isn't he. You asked him at the press, Corrence,
you know you're an optimist, clearly you know you're locking
the way the cup And he made the point about
it's not bittersweet. He's certainly tried to put a positive
spin on it. But behind closed doors they must be
(05:33):
kicking themselves, scratching their heads, grasping for the panantole because.
Speaker 3 (05:39):
How do they fix this? Well, I don't really know,
but it kind of I mean, yeah, I don't. I
don't really know how they do sex that they've tried
a few things and changing around the bench, changing the experience,
what they're trying to get out of it.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
Necessarily they've got the bench selections exactly right. Some terms
of getting impact in the last the back half of
a game, I think you're replacing some X factor players
in some cases with players that are learning still the
test craft of rugby. And to expect a bench performance
(06:20):
or a dynamic bench performance out of these players to
close out the game when they're still losing learning bits
about test rugby, I think, is.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
You know, questionable, you know.
Speaker 3 (06:31):
But then you've got someone like an Antlonine that Brown,
he's on the bench, who's played more than seventy tests
for his country, and apart from the yellow card, I
thought it had a good impact on the game on
the weekend. So it requires leadership on the park. It requires,
you know, some senior heads just taking charge of the
game and taking it by the throat, and they just
(06:54):
really haven't been able to do so as yet. And
I think we've got to get to the rest of
the game shortly. But I guess that there is a
primal question about Damien McKenzie at tin and whether he
is the answer for this All Blacks team so far
started all eight tests at this point in the campaign,
and there were times on the weekend there was the
(07:15):
flick pass that didn't really need to be thrown. It
could have either taken the contact recycled it and the
All Blacks would have been odds on the score or
drawing pass and they probably would have gone and then
make it thirty six, fourteen ten gone second spell and
they're not being caught from there. So I guess there
are still some questions around Damien McKenzie. What do you
(07:35):
think the All Blacks do there? Then I'd circle back
for a minute.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
I think you're right, and part of the broader issue
here is the same theme around the All Blacks lack
of finishing. They should never have been in that position
at the weekend. They led twenty one nil, they led
twenty eight to seven and twenty eight to fourteen at halftime.
They had ample opportunity to not only kill off the Wallabies,
(08:00):
but rarely blow them out. You mentioned the Damien McKenzie flickball.
There was a eighty meter breakout tryer that wasn't for
Cortez at Atima. There were a couple of other examples.
Artie Severe was held up over the line and this
is a common theme around. How many times have we
heard Scott Robinson say this year postmatch, we're creating so
(08:20):
many chances, we just need to finish them. Well, why
is that not happening? So the All Blacks should not
have been in that position, and that's when they start
to lose their heads. When the pressure comes on, they
start to panic. You see the yellow cards. They are
under pressure, they're having to defend their own line. So
that's the wider picture of why they're in these positions,
(08:42):
why they're struggling to score points. Well, Damien McKenzie, I
think it is a big question. And before we get
on too, I guess the options and his game. I
want to ask you do you think there's an element
of Scott Robinson. He's backed him, he's showed a lot
of faith on the park, but how many times this
(09:04):
year has he volunteered or talked about Himwanga? Because in
Sydney as Press Corrency, a team naming Press Correnc, he
talked about the fact that he went surfing with Joey
John's and how Joey John's are some wins. Richie coming
back and then that's a natural headline because it's extremely topical.
(09:26):
Everyone is has talked about when is Richie coming back?
Likely be next year, So maybe that's unsettingly to McKenzie.
So I'm asking you, while Scott Robinson showed faith in
McKenzie on the park back to him and all eight tests,
how undermining is it that in publicly he's talking about
Richie Warner.
Speaker 3 (09:47):
It is to an extent, but I guess he's backed him.
But that test jersey is only yours when your name
for each week. And I don't think Damien's under any
illusions that Richie Wongan is probably coming back to New Zealand.
He was linked erroneously from our understanding a few weeks
ago with a move to France. But I don't think
(10:08):
A's under any illusions that the likelihood is that Richiem
wong is coming back to New Zealand at some point,
and he'll have a real fight to have that ten
jersey on his hands come twenty twenty five, assuming m
Longer is eligible at that point. So look, I'm sure
for Damien it's you know, he hasn't had a test
(10:30):
this year. We'd go, yep, that's that Steel Black's ten.
There's gonna be a real competition on his hands if
Richie Moore comes home. I think that's more the issue.
Not sure Rotson saying the media, but Damien McKenzie has
had ample opportunities now to own a Test match and go, well,
maybe she comes back. Richie's on the bench option and
we haven't seen that yet. We're talking about Damien McKenzie's
(10:52):
era making the game management last twenty thirty minutes. So
for Damien McKenzie, I think it's a matter of concentrating
on what he can do on the park rather than
worrying what his coach says in the media.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
Yeah, I think that's fair to a point. But I
think if Scott Robinson's not mentioning Anymonger, maybe it's a
bit easier for him. The other The other issue here
for me, we don't know the messages behind the scenes
in terms of communication, but is there a bit of
a clash of styles here because McKenzie, his career is,
(11:29):
particularly as a ten, is about balancing his natural instincts
with game management. That comes with kicking and getting teams
and the right you know, driving them around the park,
taking the right options at the right time, particularly in
the back end of matches. And that's not only on him,
that's on your full back and your half back and
your full pack and the rest of it. But McKenzie's
(11:49):
natural instinct is to run, run, and gun, to have
those flipballs that we saw go wrong and Razor talked about,
you know, those are his natural gifts and he's got
to you know, play with instinct. And that's true. But
if you think about the Crusaders team and the way
Muhonga played, Yes, there was that flare at certain moments
(12:13):
when they really needed him, but he was that game driver, yeah, quarterback,
and he put them in areas where their set piece
could dominate, where they could get the rolling wall going.
And McKenzie's probably not doing that at the right moments.
And so as a wee bit of a clash of
styles between McKenzie's natural instincts and what the oblocks and
(12:34):
test rugby actually requires.
Speaker 3 (12:36):
Yeah, and I love I spoke to Damien in Cape
Town around that and he volunteered that game management is
his biggest work on and I think it's evident for
ever to see on the part that he's still trying
to get that right when it comes to test level.
Very different from Super Rugby managing a game and Super
Rugby you kick on to an early lead very rare
(12:59):
as a team come back. That's just the nature of
Super Rugby. You can blow out to a twenty eight
to seven lead. I'd say there would be very few
occasions where teams come back from that. In Super rugue
be its very much just doesn't happen. Whereas Test rugby,
things can change on a dime, Various elements of a
game can change and.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
Players can get back into it.
Speaker 3 (13:19):
So I think that's a big lesson for Damien at
this point in time and still growing. You know, he's
played what fifty tests for his country, but and people say, well,
you should be a game manager by now, but he
really hasn't had this run at ten in his career
to this point. He's had eight straight tests at ten.
He certainly hasn't had as this many in a row
(13:41):
as a player at ten. So that's still coming to him,
but it needs to come quickly. And I guess we
have this question this week and we'll get into some changes,
perhaps later on the podcast. But do the All Blacks
make a change this week? They've seen Damien McKenzie for
eight straight tests. Is it likely that maybe with the
Bleederslow cup wrapped up now, they look at someone different
(14:03):
for this weekend?
Speaker 2 (14:06):
Yeah, and I think it probably he needed to happen
before now. I think the other issue though, is Boden
Barratts as the next guy, and he actually hasn't played
ten for the All Blacks for a couple of years,
so there are options there, but are they are compelling?
(14:27):
Not sure, but we need to find out. I think
Harry Plummer is another guy. Stephen Petifetter is injured. His
calf came at a really an opportune time. I'm a
big fan of Stephen Petefetter, but the depth of ten
in his Zellan rugby is not great and so that's
why I think Scott Robson has backed him mackenzie and
(14:48):
given him the reins and trusted him. But I think
now is the time, like you say, with the Bleslow
locked away, to give Boden a crack. He was sick
last week, went down late in the week late withdrawal,
but by all accounts is bouncing back. We're talking a
lot about the All Blacks. What about the Wallabies? Did
(15:10):
the All Blacks make the Wallabies look good? And what
are your expectations for the Wallabies this week?
Speaker 3 (15:16):
Yes, I think All Blacks to make the Wallabies look good.
It was a lot of All Blacks eras compounding eras
that allowed the Wallabies back into the game. And ruthless
All Black side would have pumped this Wallabies team by fifty,
maybe even sixty points, that's what they were on the
track for. So the All Blacks shouldn't have allowed the
Wallabies back into the game. And it felt like every
(15:38):
time after a certain point, after maybe even a half
hour mark, once they got into the wallabyes twenty two,
they'd be an era. They give the ball up, the
conceded penalty, whatever it might be, and that allowed the
Wallabies back in it. I thought there was some pretty
soft defense at times from the All Blacks, especially the
two Wallabies tries in the first spell when they scored
(16:00):
from a fastler I think was scored from the line
lineup more and Cain missed the tackle on him. There
the one where the up the All Blacks in the
middle of the park and the first spell as well
through mckwright that was poor All Black's defense or a
defensive read. They're gone wrong and then they opened the
door and allowed the Wallabies to get back in the game.
(16:20):
Now there were soon Wallaby's individuals that impressed me. I
thought Frais mc rydan and Harry Wilson were very very good.
Rob Valentin he wasn't too bad either. You know, Lennikow
and hunter Bay summary a good midfield combination. But they
were only in this game on the back of the
All Blacks allowing them and they basically kept the door
a jar the All Blacks and the Wallabies keep on
(16:41):
sneaking through and the All Blacks.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
Did and jam it shut.
Speaker 3 (16:44):
So that might sound harsh on the Wallabies, but you know,
there were twenty eight seven down, the twenty one Niel down.
They were only backing it because of the All Blacks
and competence at times.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
Yeah, I agree. I think the All Black should have
put the foot on the throat, should have put the
Wallabies away. Defensively, the All Blacks should not be conceding
twenty eight points to the Wallaby's team. There needs to
be yes, they scramble. We showed a lot of character
when there were two men short in the closing stages.
It was a couple of massive turnovers on their own line.
I think it was Luke Jacobson and was it Wallace
(17:19):
a t T. And there was the mall turnover that
killed the game off at the death. But like you say,
there's some glaring errors as well. So they should have
put the Wallabies to the sword and they didn't and
that will be where the clips come this week.
Speaker 3 (17:35):
And even hearing from Joe Schmitt post game, he didn't
really feel like they just got close to the All Blacks.
It felt like, well the All Blacks missed a couple
of opportunities and we were sick and best. And I
think there's a sense from Joe Schmitt that he'll be
concentrating more on the opening thirty minutes and what went
wrong there than the fact they got two with them
three points at the end.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
Yeah, that's a right. What about the let's talk about
Joe Schmitt? He was asked should the bledder as though
be three tests? We could now come to Wellington. It's
sold out test here where it is interesting because earlier
couple you know what was it last month when the
Pumas were here beat the All Blacks it was half
full stadium, So this has sold out test, but the
(18:15):
Blizzlow's not on the line. I don't believe there's no
dead rubber friendly tests. I don't buy into that at all.
But it would be more engrossing contests if the Blaerzlow
was still up for grabs. So all of these could
potentially bounce back, but it has been a bit one
sided in recent years. The Blazlow contest is probably not
a great deal of interest from New Zealand Rugby to
(18:36):
extend it out beyond two tests. What's your read on that? Jochma,
interestingly enough, said I was quite happy with how it
wasn't last year when I was in the All Blacks,
and now I'd like it to be having you jump
the fence. Now, I'd like it to be three tests.
Speaker 3 (18:51):
Well, no, I don't agree with judgment because the fact
of the matter is, but and this is one match,
You've still got to win two matches to win the Blittesloader.
Whether it's two or three, you're still going to win
two matches to win the Blutaslow. That's a simple task
for Australia, so effectively, you win the series two nil
or two one, you've still got the blood is thow
there for Australia. So no, I don't necessarily get that
(19:14):
argument if it's a one off test and that makes
it different. It's up for grabs every time these two
sides play. But no, I think the task is still
there for the Wallabyes. You either've got to win, yeah,
series two one, whatever it might be if it's three
tests series. So just you know, the thing with the
wallaby is that I just don't ever see them returning
to the top of a rugby.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
And now tenth in the world. Yeah as ee a
sorry Fiji when I hit of them at the weekend.
Speaker 3 (19:38):
Yeah, and this might sound harshenf coming off a backup
a three point loss to the All Blacks, but I
just don't see them ever returning to those pretty special
heights of the nineteen nineties early two thousands. There is
nothing in the Australian rugby at the moment that suggests
that they're genuinely capable of doing so I don't see
it coming.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:00):
The Bledders, I say, for another year and All Blacks
poor performance was still good enough to win by three.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
Yeah they have. I saw us stat at the weekends
that rugby in Australia is the night most participated sport. Yeah,
counts you. That really hit me between the eyes.
Speaker 3 (20:18):
Yeah. It has fallen off the thing with Australia. And
you know this is very Richard in Yonder to say
coming from the outside looking at but they love winners
and Australia and rugby needs to win to get some
supporters back again and kids back playing rugby.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
They it's kind of like.
Speaker 3 (20:35):
You know what comes first, Well, all the business that
are just spend money to make money, you've kind of
actually got to get that success a little bit before
you and show the world what you can do before
people come on board and jump on board. And I
think that's going to be the really tough task for
rugby Australia managing to do that because it's just not
in a place where they're doing so.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
It reached some really big heights.
Speaker 3 (20:56):
You know, the host of the three World cover course
had a really good Wallaby team in that era and
it was a legitimately big sport in it it's fallen off,
so I rugby doesn't have great viewership there on PACV
or stands sport that once I would say though, is
it polsing crowd still?
Speaker 2 (21:12):
Well? I was about made that point that it was
a massive advertisement for daytime rugby, wasn't it three forty
five pm kickoff local time in Sydney? Sixty eight thousand?
Great turnout for a weekend in which you had the
AFL Finals. You insert the Sharks and Cowboys on the
(21:33):
Friday night and then the Roosters played the played Manly
on the Saturday straight after the All Black So massive weekend,
sporting weekend of Sydney and they've still got sixty eight
thousand to a course stadium, So great turn out there.
And look, I do expect Joshmitt to make the Wallabies
competitive and they do have a platform to relaunch the
(21:53):
sport back into the you know, to gain more profile
with the Lions coming with a home World Cup. So
it's not all doom and gloom, but there are massive
challenges from a financial perspective. I have touched on a
number of different talking points, a lot of them negative.
I just do want to touch on a couple of
(22:16):
great performances, individual performances. Wallace a TC He's been a
revelation at Blood so I thinker. But for me, Cortez
Latima was by far and away the best All Black
on the park at the weekend, not just what he
did with his speed to the base. I thought his
kicking has really improved. He has sniping run, set up
(22:37):
Rikowane for his first try since the World Cup last year,
and his defense he absolutely clobbed Marika Corobetti the stinging
shoulder after that and Corobtty is a ball of muscle,
so he loves getting stuck into the physical side of
the game. And the future halfback finis On is really bright.
(22:58):
Cam Rouygad returns to the All Blacks training this week.
He will return has comeback first match since pre season
for County's Monaco. I think this week, next week, next
weekends and Noah Hopham is another real prospect. So there
are a lot of issues for the All Blacks to address,
but I think halfback is not one. No, it's certainly not.
Speaker 3 (23:21):
And Ratima has been superb and was again on the weekend.
Really enjoying his style and what he brings to the game.
And he's tough, he's hard, but he's got great vision,
great stiping, runs around the base of the ruck and
completely agreas those three half backs are going to be.
It's gonna be a really exciting challenge to see how
(23:41):
they will joss off a position over the next two
or three years and building to.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
Hopefully world class half backs.
Speaker 3 (23:48):
And what is the teasy you know again, a player
that doesn't look daunted by test level at all. Mister
Fy tackles in Cape Town but was still excellent on
that night and I think grew again on Saturday afternoon
in Sydney. So really exciting to see what he can
do heading forward. Right, we'll take a break here on
Rugby direc come back with these and half of the
(24:09):
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Speaker 2 (24:17):
Talent Badies talks Ever Try Try had sixty every tackle
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Speaker 3 (24:32):
You're back with Rugby Direct, power by Excess Solutions. Time
to get into our final four and plenty to get
stuck into here. We're going to change tech temporarily though.
It's great to be on the ESPN Scrum Reset podcast
ahead of bleders Low one. You might have heard it
at our Feet as well, or watched it with the
boys Simmy Bruceon and Christy Douran from Australia. Good to
(24:55):
hit at Disney Studios in Sydney and chew the fat
with those fellas. But one thing that did come out
when we went for a post podcast settler was yes
schooner were some of the Australian rugby journos had put
together the trans tasment team of the professional era and
(25:18):
there was some interesting selections that you know over a
schooner caused plenty of debate, lim I know you've been
leaked the team by a source. Do you mind reading
through it for us if you possibly could?
Speaker 2 (25:30):
It would be my pleasure out of that because it
will cause a lot of debate. And it's fair to
say there was a good eight odd Ossie journos and
they'd clearly put a lot of work into this, a
lot of debate over a number of schooners. So without
further ado, I start sure to start at fallback, because
I regon started fall back. This is this is the
(25:51):
most controversial, So sit down, make yourself comfy because they've
gone Matt Burke at they went Ben Smith on the
right wing. Although there was a bit of debates about
whether Israel Filow should be there midfield. Mar highly controversial
at center, basically never played there in his career. Tim
(26:14):
Horem left wing, Joan Olmu Carter, Aaron Smith, Totai Kfu
number eights, Richie mccare, George Smith at blindside, flanker, Sam
Whitelocke and John Eels and the Locke in combination on
Frank's Cody Taylor, Tony Woodcock and the reserves Dane Cole's
(26:34):
Joe Moody, Taniella two po. I think like that one
summer Brody Ritzel, like Artie Severe, George Gregen Bodenberger and
Tana Well.
Speaker 3 (26:47):
You hear that team and it's really you know, if
that's what's selected there, it's really no surprise the world's
having won the bladers Low they've selected there, you know,
if this is a symptomatic of their entire country. Look,
Matt Burke at fullback is an interesting one. I sort
of played a lot a little bit on Thursday night
(27:08):
and suedest to that I always feared Matt Burke, which
is true. But yeah, I just don't know quite some
of those selections there. I maybe you can make the
argument that Christian Callen was a bit of central wing.
It's certainly multiple All Blacks coaches tried to do that.
So yeah, I loved him at center though great in
the twitter don't know nine World Cup that really helped
out the All Blacks. So there he had well five
(27:29):
tests into I think, And if you're on the right wing,
maybe maybe that's where the Wallabies were going Assie selectors
rather be going.
Speaker 2 (27:35):
You know, maybe you want to see more of it center. Yes,
what's stood out for you? Look, I think you can't
go past Nonavan Smith. Timboran was a great, genuine great, Yes,
you can't go past Nonavos Smith. In my mind, the
greatest midfield combination of all time Jerome Cano has to
be at blind Side's. Yeah, Matt Burke, sorry, does not
(27:58):
make it. So it's fair to say Taliaa Tupo would
not be near my greatest all time Bleslo Can team either.
So yeah, it's always good to have some healthy debates.
Speaker 3 (28:15):
I can see the is ruffle our argument to an extent,
though he was very good on the right wing.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
Maybe phenomenal athlete, brilliant in the air. I think there's
a strong case for him for sure.
Speaker 3 (28:25):
Yeah, listen back to that team if you want, and
you can give us some feedback as well, or some
of the AUSSI knows feedback next week on the podcast
We'd love Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
Names and Numbers.
Speaker 3 (28:38):
Box Argentina a big surprise there to an extent Argentina
twenty nine, the spring Box twenty eight. Now you can say, yeah,
so Avery were missing a couple of their big names.
You know, they made Libot coming off the bench, Paulood
started at ten and Libock missed the penalty that would
have won them the game. It's Abeth only came off
the bench. Calisi wasn't there at all. So you can
(29:00):
go about that, or you can look at the other side,
which is what I'm going to do and go Argentina
under Felippe Contopomi, who has only had them for a
couple of months it's now really three months. Look like
a team that is building very very nicely. First time
they've beaten Australia and New Zealand, South Africa and the
one Rugby Championship one calendar year. I think good on Argentina.
(29:23):
It keeps the Rugby Championship alive for another week, and
you know it's that sense of belief. You know, they've
talked a bit on the podcast about them trying to
back up performances. Well, they backed up a big performance
into Australia a couple of weeks later at Medley with
another one over argent out of South Africa. They ride
that emotion really really high. Now it's a really tough
test for Argentina but Hoosa, so they couldn't go and
(29:45):
win the Republic this weekend on that emotion, on that feeling,
Severians will get some players back. They're playing at home.
But there's a lot to like about this Argentina team
at the moment.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
There is, And like you said, they've had some big scalps,
haven't they The All Blacks and w Wellings and nobody
gave them a shot there. They surprise loss at home
to the Wallabies at one point the last minute I
think it was Ben Donaldson penalty, and then they absolutely
pumped the Wallabies the following week. But this is this
is a big result of massive scalp. For them to
(30:14):
knock over the World champions doesn't matter where in the
world that happens and what circumstances. So I think you're
right that Felipe con Topoma has taken this team forward.
He's given them a real belief structure, bringing through some
talent I didn't see. I've only seen the highlights of
the game because we were out at Sydney Airport at
seven am and Scott Robinson was actually watching this game
(30:36):
live on his foe before we spoke to him. So
I have gone back and watched some of it, but
not the entirety of it. But I think it's good
for Southern Hemisphere world rugby to have the Pumas. You
know that they are World Cup semi finalists, but they
had a soft side of the draw last year and
I think they have improved markedly since then.
Speaker 3 (30:57):
Yeah, I think they're on maybe about having it. Argentinian
coach them as well. They've had Michael Cheker in recent times.
Marially Desmitts got them some success for us one of
the All Blacks, but I think he's He's a quite coach,
has been seen in club level and now coming back
to coaches national side. Very very impressive. I think that
the takim to win the Rugby Championship is pretty difficult,
(31:17):
but even if they went over to so Africa and
won the test match in Suffaca win the Rugby Championship
by point, it's still a very very big win for Argentina.
If they'd beat in Australia in Argentina, it'd be all
on this weekend.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
Yeah, And that's great for the Rugby Championship to have
the elements of genuine competitiveness because it wasn't that long
ago the Pumas went through the Rugby Championship winless and
that was pretty consistent. Now, not just from a Wallabies.
You know, they don't just knock over the Wallabies. There's
genuine interrepidation whenever they played the All Blacks.
Speaker 3 (31:52):
There is I wrote a column last week sort of
saying the Rugby Championship as a competition doesn't really mess
and I probably I still stand by that, but I
think it is healthy for this competition to be having
the kind of jeopardy, the kind of results that we've
got at the moment, and Argentina wouldn't been against them.
(32:13):
You're going over Savregan and shocking things up and sent
in another result over there. Tomming Onmer three, what changes
for the All Blacks for Wellington? Now we sort of
mentioned around that the ten do you see Scott Robinson
making that change at ten this week.
Speaker 2 (32:28):
Well, one point we haven't mentioned is Jordi Barrett's did
a medial ligaments to his knee as we are speaking
now on Monday. He was going for a scan today
but he looked very sore and medial ligament these are
typically four to six weeks. So I would not expect
to see Jordi Barrett before the England Test at Twickenham,
(32:51):
which from memory is late October, and that's a big
blow for the All Blacks. Jordi Barrett is a very
unique player and what he brings to that twelve jersey,
so you'd expect Antelina Brown to come in for him.
Elsewhere we touched on, I think Boden Barrett possibly gets
a chance. Ethan Blackheader is due to return from his
(33:17):
hamstring injury, and yeah, I think elsewhere maybe you'll see
Mark Tala. I don't think we'll see Noah Hotham just yet.
I think they'll keep him back for Japan. TJ. Pennarre's
last test at home at Wellington. I think they'll want
to give him a run off the bench. I think
(33:39):
they'll want to keep Will Jordan at fullback. That was
unplanned but he took his chance there and in the pack,
I think Sam Kane probably starts for his one hundred tests.
Not sure about the front row Ethan the group was
short of a gallop. For me, I expect to build
black scrum to dominate the Wallabies. That didn't happen and
(34:00):
some weird rulings there, but that they didn't dominate them
in the capacity I expected. What about you? Where do
you see changes? Look?
Speaker 3 (34:08):
I think they will maybe look at elsewhere at ten
this week. I think the opportunity is there. Having said that,
they'll probably do it again in Japan, so maybe two
tests in a row without your first choice ten and
David McKenzie.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
Maybe they don't do that.
Speaker 3 (34:24):
So I think there's going to be a little bit
of thinking about what they're doing Japan, albeit that's still
a month away. Just around how they playing things out.
I'd love to see Billy prop to get another crack
this week. Yeah, and I mean Caleb Clark has has
just come back in and taken his chance. But do
they look at Rico Yowani on the left wing again,
He's adamant, he's a center Rico, but maybe you can
(34:48):
sort of be Rico has been going back to the
wing and the end of the games. Maybe you can
change that out willst Tisi. I think keep them in there,
keep going, keep going, keep playing him and that may
facilitate a change.
Speaker 2 (35:02):
Maybe.
Speaker 3 (35:02):
Also maybe you move ball TDI back to number eight
this weekend and Ardie Savia comes off the bench.
Speaker 2 (35:07):
It's going to happen at some point. I just I
think Scott Robinson's quite a not nostalgic but sentimental. I'd
be very surprised if Sam Kane doesn't start as hun
just here. Whether it happens this week or not, not
too sure, but I think he will start his hundred.
Speaker 3 (35:23):
Well you could move west to t D back to
number eight. You could have Sam Kner open so flanker
and eating black head at blindside.
Speaker 2 (35:29):
Yeah, I think the all black small start Areadie pretty
hard to go away from that. But look, I want
to see what at eight. It has to happen at
some point soon. Well, I want to see it last
week when we said the week before, I'm not Razor
Harry Flummer.
Speaker 3 (35:47):
Yeah, they have another look at him this week your
four minutes unexpectedly off the bench and congratulations to him
on becoming all black number one thy two hundred and
twenty one. It was unexpected with blowing Barrett's illness, but
do they give him another crack off the bench this week?
Speaker 2 (36:00):
Well, first of all, a great story for a guy
that has really toiled away behind the scenes and was
very unheralded even right up until the point end of
this year. If he lose guided them to a Super
Rugby title after you know all the trials and tribulations.
He's had a number of injury setbacks. He early in
his career missed a couple of kicks that he was
(36:22):
vilified for on social media, so he's had to deal
with a lot of shit. And I know this was
very popular debut within the All Blacks, not just with
the Blues players. With Jordi Barrett out, I think he
probably does stand the mixt day. David de Hevelli is
another guy that hasn't seen any game time, so probably
going head to head there, but the fact they put
Plumber in last week suggests that he's Yeah. It does
(36:46):
so it's going to be a very interesting team.
Speaker 3 (36:48):
And it'snamed Thursday Morning around what changes the All Blacks
make final topic in the final four. As we touched
on their sm Kaines one hundredth for coming up this week.
I spoke to him last week ahead of his ninety
nine if you can hear that into you on the
news talks HEDI website if you so desire. But s look,
he hasn't got much more time left in the All
(37:08):
Blacks Juessey. It was Scott Robertson who said on Thursday
and he named the team that they are where it's
Scott Sam Caine swansong and how long does the song last?
Speaker 1 (37:18):
For?
Speaker 3 (37:19):
When did they stop singing? But he's been in a
very very good form this season. I only missed that
tackle on the weekend, you know, but everyone misses tackles.
But he's made it a conversation this year and it
didn't appear like it would be earlier on this season.
It felt like bench rugby and maybe some starts against
(37:39):
the Lesa Lights might be his lot. But he's closing
out his tenure as a Test rugby footballer in some
pretty good form. And I think you look back at
his career, he was in the shadow of Richie McCaw
for so long that Burt in twenty twelve was pretty
much a bench specialist for three or four seasons behind.
(38:01):
McCaw got a captaincy not at the World Cup in
twenty fifteen against Namibia, if I recall rightly, and then
has grown and grown since then, but he's always lived
in the shadow of Richie Mccooh. It's a really tough
position to be in for not only applied coming into issues,
but then you're also elevated to the All Blacks captaincy
(38:21):
in twenty twenty.
Speaker 2 (38:24):
He's not retiring just yet. But how will you look
back at Sam Kaine's career. M Yeah, just before I
get to that, I think what Sam Kane has done
is he's really surprised Razor because I think Raiser's perception
from the outside was that maybe he shouldn't have been
captain of the All Blacks. And I know for a
fact that Rais has been blown away by his presence
(38:46):
in the All Blacks, particularly around his leadership off the field,
helping Scott Barrett's, his respect within the playing group, the
MANI he carries, and so I think that's been a
big shift for Razor to see that in person. His career,
(39:06):
he has survived a lot of adversity. He broke his
neck in South Africa and it wasn't just his career uncertainty,
but you know there was real fears for whether he
would walk again. And at the time Russia Rasmus talked
about how he went and visited him at the hospital room.
(39:27):
So he came back from that. He's extremely dogged. He
has been one of the biggest hatting defenders in New
Zealand rugby. He lived and breathed the adversity of the
m Foster era, fronted through some of the worst times
in the professional era, some horror records and stood firm
(39:49):
and then that you know, the red card and the
World Cup final, and then comes back again this year.
So look, the character of the bloke, you cannot questions.
If there's anyone deserving to get to one hundred caps,
it is him. I as it stands right now, I
would have moved on from him last week. I think
(40:11):
you can justify the style of rugby that he plays,
coming in and starting against the spring Box. But I
think there's real questions now and particularly the style of
the Wallabies play, about moving on and getting to the future. Yes,
Sam Kame will get to one hundred caps, but what
is the future of the seven Jersy here. You know,
(40:31):
where's Dalton Papa Lei gone? Why isn't Peter Luckeye in
the squads? You know? Maybe that will come, But the
wider issue for me about what is the future of
the Seven Jews is almost more pressing than Sam can
getting too A hundred one hundred percent deserves that. But
from an interest perspective, I'm really fascinated about where the
(40:53):
Seven Jewsy goes because you talk about their legacy with mccare,
that's always going to be there. But who is the
next guy?
Speaker 3 (40:59):
Well, as far as I understand, Sam Kame is still
there until the end of the year. Yeah, so that's
the problem for twenty thirty five, finding out who the
next open sider is?
Speaker 2 (41:10):
Yeah, I think. But what's happening from a grooming perspective,
you and I right now, I can't say who is
the ext guy? But does that matter? Because look at look, look,
look you need to be planning for the future.
Speaker 3 (41:22):
But last year in the All Blacks courtez Ratima not there,
while it's a teating not there. They're until the All
Blacks best this year? So why not live in the
moment and go Sam Kaine is the best open side
flanker for the All Blacks. At this point in time,
we're going to seleck them in the seven jowsey. We'll
worry about that in twenty and twenty five. It's shown
that doesn't take long for certain players to get up
to speed and teas Rugi have Don and Papale's not
(41:44):
the best open side flanker at the moment behind Sam Kine,
then why give them the jersey?
Speaker 2 (41:49):
Now? Was a nod to the future. You can live
in the moment and plan for the future. I would
argue right now, Razor does not know who his next
open siders, and that's why Peter Luckey has to go
on the India Tour because if Sam Kain is a
guy right now, fine playing, but start grooming the next
guy and that's not happening.
Speaker 3 (42:09):
But yeah, I take your point, But then grooming is
only good to an a certain extent because you've got
to play what's in front of you at a certain time,
and you can you know, Filly Christie was the All
Black second choice half beat last year. Now he's probably
down to fourth fifth in the in the rankings. Different
coaches at midley. But I think you've got to play
for the test match that's in front of you, not
(42:30):
the one that's been played in twelve months time.
Speaker 2 (42:33):
That's fair. But I'll give you an example. How much
is Courses Latima benefiting from TJ pet Andarra's presence and
the All Blacks. So handing over that experience and that
that grooming process, particularly for a twenty one year old
kid like Lakey, is so important. So yep, have to
win in the now, but groom for the future.
Speaker 3 (42:55):
There we go on that notes, we will wrap up
Rugby Directs. Good to be in the Capitol. We'll be
back again next week to wrap up the first or
the first Rugby Championship under Scott Robinson and look aheads
to the end of year tour as well. All the
coverage on India here dot co dot India this week
and on News TALKSB, Gold Sport and iHeartRadio. That has
(43:16):
been Rugby direct with access solutions, elevating you and your
business to a higher level. We think last and bars
English is always for producing Rugby Directs.
Speaker 1 (43:28):
For more from News Talk, SEDB, listen live on air
or online and keep our shows with you wherever you
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You're listening to a podcast from News Talks. It be
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Inside the Game from every angle. It's Rugby Direct with
Elliott Smith, powered.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
By News Talks.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
It be Welcome into Rugby to Riggs powered by Excess Solutions,
elevating you and your business through a high level. Well, Liam,
we're back for another week, Elliott Smith, lillam Apire and
we have departed sunny Sydney for Wendy Wellington. As we
come to you this week, building up too bleddersload, too
sad to leave the sun behind and the Kuji Pavilion
(00:46):
behind and.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Everything else that with Sydney.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
But we have some more work to do and the
the All Blacks have another test to build before.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
But it was a great week in Sydney. It was
great city, interesting results, interesting tests and look at really
warms the arms of the heart, warms the cockles to
be in our nation's capital early. I know you're Maive
well Etric fans, so it's very very special for you
to have a homecoming.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
Well I was hoping to have a jersey to represent
my love of the city, but I've managed to somehow.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Not get that jersey. Yes, yes, I should have brought
that to present you, but that's witing for you. When
we get back to walk on a great special that
will be great.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
Right, Let's dive into this All Blacks Wallabies test in Sydney,
the All Blacks winning thirty one and twenty eight. I
guest the same old issues really cropping up for the
All Blacks, not taking their opportunities and then getting themselves
into a fourth quorder arm wrestle against an opponent. This
(01:46):
time they didn't end up on the winning side, but
almost to an extent, feels like a loss. Even Scott
Roberson no painting it, you know, as we've won the cup,
but you look at that and Neil Blacks really could
have belted the Wallabies and torched them.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Instead they just squeaked home. Really, yeah, you're right, it
does feel like a loss of many respects and I
think that was certainly the feedback coming through when the
WhatsApps was blowing up from people back home. A lot
of frustration, and I think that frustration stems from light
You say that the same endemic issues. Five tests in
(02:23):
a row now the All Blacks have failed to score
point beyond the fifty second minute. Three of those matches
are blowing massive leads, and this game they scored three
points after the twenty sixth minute. They're staggering, and particularly
given their start with the four triers. They blew the
Wallabies off the park and then allowed the Wallabies back
(02:46):
into the contest, and then it's their finishing to matches.
They've now had five yellow cards in their last three tests.
They are losing their heads. Their game management isn't there.
There's real questions about the on field leadership. And while
they did close out this match, it really was clinging
(03:07):
on for dear life, it was.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
And this team went from one that was playing some slick,
sublime rugby in the opening twenty five to thirty minutes
to be in the back twenty of them. And it's
a team that didn't look like they knew each other
and that it had just been thrust all the park
together for the first time. And I don't get how
you can go from that in the first half to
being so clunky, so disorganized, so lacking of a game
(03:31):
plan in the closing stages of the game. I think
if we flip it around a bit, I think there's
a bit of a tactic from the All Blacks to
try and blow teams off the park early and it's
worked to an extent because they managed to build up
some leads against South Africa in the first Eastern Johannesburg.
They've got to twenty seven to seventeen again on Argentina
Wellingson you think back to that. They got to lead
(03:53):
early in Auckland as well. They managed to do that,
but they don't seem to know how to play the
back end of the game. Great have a fast start,
but you've got to actually close out games. And it's
becoming a really big issue for this All Blacks team
that they just can't seem to not only finding points,
but just look like they're capable of doing anything in
the back close at half of games, they just as
(04:15):
you said, lacks some bonfield leadership and game management. And
that last twenty to thirty minutes on the weekend, and
if the game had gone five minutes longer, there's a
real chance they would have lost that.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
And I think the thing that highlights it most for
me is this was an area of strength for the
All Blacks for so long, and part of it is
to a degree, the erosion of debt right the bench.
The all Blacks used to have was phenomenal and they
were the ones that were fitter than everyone. They were
the ones that would come over top teams lates even
when they went at their best, and win matches that
(04:48):
they didn't deserve to win. You know, you think about
Irelands in Dublin with that great Ryan Krawdi tro or
there was another example in Australia where they won late.
I think it was Muller Kaifakatoa scored. There's countless examples
of this and now the script has been totally flipped
and there are extreme vulnerabilities there and it's a curse.
(05:12):
It's an unsolvable issue for Scott Robinson. And he's an
eternal optimist, isn't he. You asked him at the press, Corrence,
you know you're an optimist, clearly you know you're locking
the way the cup And he made the point about
it's not bittersweet. He's certainly tried to put a positive
spin on it. But behind closed doors they must be
(05:33):
kicking themselves, scratching their heads, grasping for the panantole because.
Speaker 3 (05:39):
How do they fix this? Well, I don't really know,
but it kind of I mean, yeah, I don't. I
don't really know how they do sex that they've tried
a few things and changing around the bench, changing the experience,
what they're trying to get out of it.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
Necessarily they've got the bench selections exactly right. Some terms
of getting impact in the last the back half of
a game, I think you're replacing some X factor players
in some cases with players that are learning still the
test craft of rugby. And to expect a bench performance
(06:20):
or a dynamic bench performance out of these players to
close out the game when they're still losing learning bits
about test rugby, I think, is.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
You know, questionable, you know.
Speaker 3 (06:31):
But then you've got someone like an Antlonine that Brown,
he's on the bench, who's played more than seventy tests
for his country, and apart from the yellow card, I
thought it had a good impact on the game on
the weekend. So it requires leadership on the park. It requires,
you know, some senior heads just taking charge of the
game and taking it by the throat, and they just
(06:54):
really haven't been able to do so as yet. And
I think we've got to get to the rest of
the game shortly. But I guess that there is a
primal question about Damien McKenzie at tin and whether he
is the answer for this All Blacks team so far
started all eight tests at this point in the campaign,
and there were times on the weekend there was the
(07:15):
flick pass that didn't really need to be thrown. It
could have either taken the contact recycled it and the
All Blacks would have been odds on the score or
drawing pass and they probably would have gone and then
make it thirty six, fourteen ten gone second spell and
they're not being caught from there. So I guess there
are still some questions around Damien McKenzie. What do you
(07:35):
think the All Blacks do there? Then I'd circle back
for a minute.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
I think you're right, and part of the broader issue
here is the same theme around the All Blacks lack
of finishing. They should never have been in that position
at the weekend. They led twenty one nil, they led
twenty eight to seven and twenty eight to fourteen at halftime.
They had ample opportunity to not only kill off the Wallabies,
(08:00):
but rarely blow them out. You mentioned the Damien McKenzie flickball.
There was a eighty meter breakout tryer that wasn't for
Cortez at Atima. There were a couple of other examples.
Artie Severe was held up over the line and this
is a common theme around. How many times have we
heard Scott Robinson say this year postmatch, we're creating so
(08:20):
many chances, we just need to finish them. Well, why
is that not happening? So the All Blacks should not
have been in that position, and that's when they start
to lose their heads. When the pressure comes on, they
start to panic. You see the yellow cards. They are
under pressure, they're having to defend their own line. So
that's the wider picture of why they're in these positions,
(08:42):
why they're struggling to score points. Well, Damien McKenzie, I
think it is a big question. And before we get
on too, I guess the options and his game. I
want to ask you do you think there's an element
of Scott Robinson. He's backed him, he's showed a lot
of faith on the park, but how many times this
(09:04):
year has he volunteered or talked about Himwanga? Because in
Sydney as Press Corrency, a team naming Press Correnc, he
talked about the fact that he went surfing with Joey
John's and how Joey John's are some wins. Richie coming
back and then that's a natural headline because it's extremely topical.
(09:26):
Everyone is has talked about when is Richie coming back?
Likely be next year, So maybe that's unsettingly to McKenzie.
So I'm asking you, while Scott Robinson showed faith in
McKenzie on the park back to him and all eight tests,
how undermining is it that in publicly he's talking about
Richie Warner.
Speaker 3 (09:47):
It is to an extent, but I guess he's backed him.
But that test jersey is only yours when your name
for each week. And I don't think Damien's under any
illusions that Richie Wongan is probably coming back to New Zealand.
He was linked erroneously from our understanding a few weeks
ago with a move to France. But I don't think
(10:08):
A's under any illusions that the likelihood is that Richiem
wong is coming back to New Zealand at some point,
and he'll have a real fight to have that ten
jersey on his hands come twenty twenty five, assuming m
Longer is eligible at that point. So look, I'm sure
for Damien it's you know, he hasn't had a test
(10:30):
this year. We'd go, yep, that's that Steel Black's ten.
There's gonna be a real competition on his hands if
Richie Moore comes home. I think that's more the issue.
Not sure Rotson saying the media, but Damien McKenzie has
had ample opportunities now to own a Test match and go, well,
maybe she comes back. Richie's on the bench option and
we haven't seen that yet. We're talking about Damien McKenzie's
(10:52):
era making the game management last twenty thirty minutes. So
for Damien McKenzie, I think it's a matter of concentrating
on what he can do on the park rather than
worrying what his coach says in the media.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
Yeah, I think that's fair to a point. But I
think if Scott Robinson's not mentioning Anymonger, maybe it's a
bit easier for him. The other The other issue here
for me, we don't know the messages behind the scenes
in terms of communication, but is there a bit of
a clash of styles here because McKenzie, his career is,
(11:29):
particularly as a ten, is about balancing his natural instincts
with game management. That comes with kicking and getting teams
and the right you know, driving them around the park,
taking the right options at the right time, particularly in
the back end of matches. And that's not only on him,
that's on your full back and your half back and
your full pack and the rest of it. But McKenzie's
(11:49):
natural instinct is to run, run, and gun, to have
those flipballs that we saw go wrong and Razor talked about,
you know, those are his natural gifts and he's got
to you know, play with instinct. And that's true. But
if you think about the Crusaders team and the way
Muhonga played, Yes, there was that flare at certain moments
(12:13):
when they really needed him, but he was that game driver, yeah, quarterback,
and he put them in areas where their set piece
could dominate, where they could get the rolling wall going.
And McKenzie's probably not doing that at the right moments.
And so as a wee bit of a clash of
styles between McKenzie's natural instincts and what the oblocks and
(12:34):
test rugby actually requires.
Speaker 3 (12:36):
Yeah, and I love I spoke to Damien in Cape
Town around that and he volunteered that game management is
his biggest work on and I think it's evident for
ever to see on the part that he's still trying
to get that right when it comes to test level.
Very different from Super Rugby managing a game and Super
Rugby you kick on to an early lead very rare
(12:59):
as a team come back. That's just the nature of
Super Rugby. You can blow out to a twenty eight
to seven lead. I'd say there would be very few
occasions where teams come back from that. In Super rugue
be its very much just doesn't happen. Whereas Test rugby,
things can change on a dime, Various elements of a
game can change and.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
Players can get back into it.
Speaker 3 (13:19):
So I think that's a big lesson for Damien at
this point in time and still growing. You know, he's
played what fifty tests for his country, but and people say, well,
you should be a game manager by now, but he
really hasn't had this run at ten in his career
to this point. He's had eight straight tests at ten.
He certainly hasn't had as this many in a row
(13:41):
as a player at ten. So that's still coming to him,
but it needs to come quickly. And I guess we
have this question this week and we'll get into some changes,
perhaps later on the podcast. But do the All Blacks
make a change this week? They've seen Damien McKenzie for
eight straight tests. Is it likely that maybe with the
Bleederslow cup wrapped up now, they look at someone different
(14:03):
for this weekend?
Speaker 2 (14:06):
Yeah, and I think it probably he needed to happen
before now. I think the other issue though, is Boden
Barratts as the next guy, and he actually hasn't played
ten for the All Blacks for a couple of years,
so there are options there, but are they are compelling?
(14:27):
Not sure, but we need to find out. I think
Harry Plummer is another guy. Stephen Petifetter is injured. His
calf came at a really an opportune time. I'm a
big fan of Stephen Petefetter, but the depth of ten
in his Zellan rugby is not great and so that's
why I think Scott Robson has backed him mackenzie and
(14:48):
given him the reins and trusted him. But I think
now is the time, like you say, with the Bleslow
locked away, to give Boden a crack. He was sick
last week, went down late in the week late withdrawal,
but by all accounts is bouncing back. We're talking a
lot about the All Blacks. What about the Wallabies? Did
(15:10):
the All Blacks make the Wallabies look good? And what
are your expectations for the Wallabies this week?
Speaker 3 (15:16):
Yes, I think All Blacks to make the Wallabies look good.
It was a lot of All Blacks eras compounding eras
that allowed the Wallabies back into the game. And ruthless
All Black side would have pumped this Wallabies team by fifty,
maybe even sixty points, that's what they were on the
track for. So the All Blacks shouldn't have allowed the
Wallabies back into the game. And it felt like every
(15:38):
time after a certain point, after maybe even a half
hour mark, once they got into the wallabyes twenty two,
they'd be an era. They give the ball up, the
conceded penalty, whatever it might be, and that allowed the
Wallabies back in it. I thought there was some pretty
soft defense at times from the All Blacks, especially the
two Wallabies tries in the first spell when they scored
(16:00):
from a fastler I think was scored from the line
lineup more and Cain missed the tackle on him. There
the one where the up the All Blacks in the
middle of the park and the first spell as well
through mckwright that was poor All Black's defense or a
defensive read. They're gone wrong and then they opened the
door and allowed the Wallabies to get back in the game.
(16:20):
Now there were soon Wallaby's individuals that impressed me. I
thought Frais mc rydan and Harry Wilson were very very good.
Rob Valentin he wasn't too bad either. You know, Lennikow
and hunter Bay summary a good midfield combination. But they
were only in this game on the back of the
All Blacks allowing them and they basically kept the door
a jar the All Blacks and the Wallabies keep on
(16:41):
sneaking through and the All Blacks.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
Did and jam it shut.
Speaker 3 (16:44):
So that might sound harsh on the Wallabies, but you know,
there were twenty eight seven down, the twenty one Niel down.
They were only backing it because of the All Blacks
and competence at times.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
Yeah, I agree. I think the All Black should have
put the foot on the throat, should have put the
Wallabies away. Defensively, the All Blacks should not be conceding
twenty eight points to the Wallaby's team. There needs to
be yes, they scramble. We showed a lot of character
when there were two men short in the closing stages.
It was a couple of massive turnovers on their own line.
I think it was Luke Jacobson and was it Wallace
(17:19):
a t T. And there was the mall turnover that
killed the game off at the death. But like you say,
there's some glaring errors as well. So they should have
put the Wallabies to the sword and they didn't and
that will be where the clips come this week.
Speaker 3 (17:35):
And even hearing from Joe Schmitt post game, he didn't
really feel like they just got close to the All Blacks.
It felt like, well the All Blacks missed a couple
of opportunities and we were sick and best. And I
think there's a sense from Joe Schmitt that he'll be
concentrating more on the opening thirty minutes and what went
wrong there than the fact they got two with them
three points at the end.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
Yeah, that's a right. What about the let's talk about
Joe Schmitt? He was asked should the bledder as though
be three tests? We could now come to Wellington. It's
sold out test here where it is interesting because earlier
couple you know what was it last month when the
Pumas were here beat the All Blacks it was half
full stadium, So this has sold out test, but the
(18:15):
Blizzlow's not on the line. I don't believe there's no
dead rubber friendly tests. I don't buy into that at all.
But it would be more engrossing contests if the Blaerzlow
was still up for grabs. So all of these could
potentially bounce back, but it has been a bit one
sided in recent years. The Blazlow contest is probably not
a great deal of interest from New Zealand Rugby to
(18:36):
extend it out beyond two tests. What's your read on that? Jochma,
interestingly enough, said I was quite happy with how it
wasn't last year when I was in the All Blacks,
and now I'd like it to be having you jump
the fence. Now, I'd like it to be three tests.
Speaker 3 (18:51):
Well, no, I don't agree with judgment because the fact
of the matter is, but and this is one match,
You've still got to win two matches to win the Blittesloader.
Whether it's two or three, you're still going to win
two matches to win the Blutaslow. That's a simple task
for Australia, so effectively, you win the series two nil
or two one, you've still got the blood is thow
there for Australia. So no, I don't necessarily get that
(19:14):
argument if it's a one off test and that makes
it different. It's up for grabs every time these two
sides play. But no, I think the task is still
there for the Wallabyes. You either've got to win, yeah,
series two one, whatever it might be if it's three
tests series. So just you know, the thing with the
wallaby is that I just don't ever see them returning
to the top of a rugby.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
And now tenth in the world. Yeah as ee a
sorry Fiji when I hit of them at the weekend.
Speaker 3 (19:38):
Yeah, and this might sound harshenf coming off a backup
a three point loss to the All Blacks, but I
just don't see them ever returning to those pretty special
heights of the nineteen nineties early two thousands. There is
nothing in the Australian rugby at the moment that suggests
that they're genuinely capable of doing so I don't see
it coming.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:00):
The Bledders, I say, for another year and All Blacks
poor performance was still good enough to win by three.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
Yeah they have. I saw us stat at the weekends
that rugby in Australia is the night most participated sport. Yeah,
counts you. That really hit me between the eyes.
Speaker 3 (20:18):
Yeah. It has fallen off the thing with Australia. And
you know this is very Richard in Yonder to say
coming from the outside looking at but they love winners
and Australia and rugby needs to win to get some
supporters back again and kids back playing rugby.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
They it's kind of like.
Speaker 3 (20:35):
You know what comes first, Well, all the business that
are just spend money to make money, you've kind of
actually got to get that success a little bit before
you and show the world what you can do before
people come on board and jump on board. And I
think that's going to be the really tough task for
rugby Australia managing to do that because it's just not
in a place where they're doing so.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
It reached some really big heights.
Speaker 3 (20:56):
You know, the host of the three World cover course
had a really good Wallaby team in that era and
it was a legitimately big sport in it it's fallen off,
so I rugby doesn't have great viewership there on PACV
or stands sport that once I would say though, is
it polsing crowd still?
Speaker 2 (21:12):
Well? I was about made that point that it was
a massive advertisement for daytime rugby, wasn't it three forty
five pm kickoff local time in Sydney? Sixty eight thousand?
Great turnout for a weekend in which you had the
AFL Finals. You insert the Sharks and Cowboys on the
(21:33):
Friday night and then the Roosters played the played Manly
on the Saturday straight after the All Black So massive weekend,
sporting weekend of Sydney and they've still got sixty eight
thousand to a course stadium, So great turn out there.
And look, I do expect Joshmitt to make the Wallabies
competitive and they do have a platform to relaunch the
(21:53):
sport back into the you know, to gain more profile
with the Lions coming with a home World Cup. So
it's not all doom and gloom, but there are massive
challenges from a financial perspective. I have touched on a
number of different talking points, a lot of them negative.
I just do want to touch on a couple of
(22:16):
great performances, individual performances. Wallace a TC He's been a
revelation at Blood so I thinker. But for me, Cortez
Latima was by far and away the best All Black
on the park at the weekend, not just what he
did with his speed to the base. I thought his
kicking has really improved. He has sniping run, set up
(22:37):
Rikowane for his first try since the World Cup last year,
and his defense he absolutely clobbed Marika Corobetti the stinging
shoulder after that and Corobtty is a ball of muscle,
so he loves getting stuck into the physical side of
the game. And the future halfback finis On is really bright.
(22:58):
Cam Rouygad returns to the All Blacks training this week.
He will return has comeback first match since pre season
for County's Monaco. I think this week, next week, next
weekends and Noah Hopham is another real prospect. So there
are a lot of issues for the All Blacks to address,
but I think halfback is not one. No, it's certainly not.
Speaker 3 (23:21):
And Ratima has been superb and was again on the weekend.
Really enjoying his style and what he brings to the game.
And he's tough, he's hard, but he's got great vision,
great stiping, runs around the base of the ruck and
completely agreas those three half backs are going to be.
It's gonna be a really exciting challenge to see how
(23:41):
they will joss off a position over the next two
or three years and building to.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
Hopefully world class half backs.
Speaker 3 (23:48):
And what is the teasy you know again, a player
that doesn't look daunted by test level at all. Mister
Fy tackles in Cape Town but was still excellent on
that night and I think grew again on Saturday afternoon
in Sydney. So really exciting to see what he can
do heading forward. Right, we'll take a break here on
Rugby direc come back with these and half of the
(24:09):
podcast Powered by Excess Solutions elevating you and your business
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Speaker 2 (24:17):
Talent Badies talks Ever Try Try had sixty every tackle
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Speaker 3 (24:32):
You're back with Rugby Direct, power by Excess Solutions. Time
to get into our final four and plenty to get
stuck into here. We're going to change tech temporarily though.
It's great to be on the ESPN Scrum Reset podcast
ahead of bleders Low one. You might have heard it
at our Feet as well, or watched it with the
boys Simmy Bruceon and Christy Douran from Australia. Good to
(24:55):
hit at Disney Studios in Sydney and chew the fat
with those fellas. But one thing that did come out
when we went for a post podcast settler was yes
schooner were some of the Australian rugby journos had put
together the trans tasment team of the professional era and
(25:18):
there was some interesting selections that you know over a
schooner caused plenty of debate, lim I know you've been
leaked the team by a source. Do you mind reading
through it for us if you possibly could?
Speaker 2 (25:30):
It would be my pleasure out of that because it
will cause a lot of debate. And it's fair to
say there was a good eight odd Ossie journos and
they'd clearly put a lot of work into this, a
lot of debate over a number of schooners. So without
further ado, I start sure to start at fallback, because
I regon started fall back. This is this is the
(25:51):
most controversial, So sit down, make yourself comfy because they've
gone Matt Burke at they went Ben Smith on the
right wing. Although there was a bit of debates about
whether Israel Filow should be there midfield. Mar highly controversial
at center, basically never played there in his career. Tim
(26:14):
Horem left wing, Joan Olmu Carter, Aaron Smith, Totai Kfu
number eights, Richie mccare, George Smith at blindside, flanker, Sam
Whitelocke and John Eels and the Locke in combination on
Frank's Cody Taylor, Tony Woodcock and the reserves Dane Cole's
(26:34):
Joe Moody, Taniella two po. I think like that one
summer Brody Ritzel, like Artie Severe, George Gregen Bodenberger and
Tana Well.
Speaker 3 (26:47):
You hear that team and it's really you know, if
that's what's selected there, it's really no surprise the world's
having won the bladers Low they've selected there, you know,
if this is a symptomatic of their entire country. Look,
Matt Burke at fullback is an interesting one. I sort
of played a lot a little bit on Thursday night
(27:08):
and suedest to that I always feared Matt Burke, which
is true. But yeah, I just don't know quite some
of those selections there. I maybe you can make the
argument that Christian Callen was a bit of central wing.
It's certainly multiple All Blacks coaches tried to do that.
So yeah, I loved him at center though great in
the twitter don't know nine World Cup that really helped
out the All Blacks. So there he had well five
(27:29):
tests into I think, And if you're on the right wing,
maybe maybe that's where the Wallabies were going Assie selectors
rather be going.
Speaker 2 (27:35):
You know, maybe you want to see more of it center. Yes,
what's stood out for you? Look, I think you can't
go past Nonavan Smith. Timboran was a great, genuine great, Yes,
you can't go past Nonavos Smith. In my mind, the
greatest midfield combination of all time Jerome Cano has to
be at blind Side's. Yeah, Matt Burke, sorry, does not
(27:58):
make it. So it's fair to say Taliaa Tupo would
not be near my greatest all time Bleslo Can team either.
So yeah, it's always good to have some healthy debates.
Speaker 3 (28:15):
I can see the is ruffle our argument to an extent,
though he was very good on the right wing.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
Maybe phenomenal athlete, brilliant in the air. I think there's
a strong case for him for sure.
Speaker 3 (28:25):
Yeah, listen back to that team if you want, and
you can give us some feedback as well, or some
of the AUSSI knows feedback next week on the podcast
We'd love Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
Names and Numbers.
Speaker 3 (28:38):
Box Argentina a big surprise there to an extent Argentina
twenty nine, the spring Box twenty eight. Now you can say, yeah,
so Avery were missing a couple of their big names.
You know, they made Libot coming off the bench, Paulood
started at ten and Libock missed the penalty that would
have won them the game. It's Abeth only came off
the bench. Calisi wasn't there at all. So you can
(29:00):
go about that, or you can look at the other side,
which is what I'm going to do and go Argentina
under Felippe Contopomi, who has only had them for a
couple of months it's now really three months. Look like
a team that is building very very nicely. First time
they've beaten Australia and New Zealand, South Africa and the
one Rugby Championship one calendar year. I think good on Argentina.
(29:23):
It keeps the Rugby Championship alive for another week, and
you know it's that sense of belief. You know, they've
talked a bit on the podcast about them trying to
back up performances. Well, they backed up a big performance
into Australia a couple of weeks later at Medley with
another one over argent out of South Africa. They ride
that emotion really really high. Now it's a really tough
test for Argentina but Hoosa, so they couldn't go and
(29:45):
win the Republic this weekend on that emotion, on that feeling,
Severians will get some players back. They're playing at home.
But there's a lot to like about this Argentina team
at the moment.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
There is, And like you said, they've had some big scalps,
haven't they The All Blacks and w Wellings and nobody
gave them a shot there. They surprise loss at home
to the Wallabies at one point the last minute I
think it was Ben Donaldson penalty, and then they absolutely
pumped the Wallabies the following week. But this is this
is a big result of massive scalp. For them to
(30:14):
knock over the World champions doesn't matter where in the
world that happens and what circumstances. So I think you're
right that Felipe con Topoma has taken this team forward.
He's given them a real belief structure, bringing through some
talent I didn't see. I've only seen the highlights of
the game because we were out at Sydney Airport at
seven am and Scott Robinson was actually watching this game
(30:36):
live on his foe before we spoke to him. So
I have gone back and watched some of it, but
not the entirety of it. But I think it's good
for Southern Hemisphere world rugby to have the Pumas. You
know that they are World Cup semi finalists, but they
had a soft side of the draw last year and
I think they have improved markedly since then.
Speaker 3 (30:57):
Yeah, I think they're on maybe about having it. Argentinian
coach them as well. They've had Michael Cheker in recent times.
Marially Desmitts got them some success for us one of
the All Blacks, but I think he's He's a quite coach,
has been seen in club level and now coming back
to coaches national side. Very very impressive. I think that
the takim to win the Rugby Championship is pretty difficult,
(31:17):
but even if they went over to so Africa and
won the test match in Suffaca win the Rugby Championship
by point, it's still a very very big win for Argentina.
If they'd beat in Australia in Argentina, it'd be all
on this weekend.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
Yeah, And that's great for the Rugby Championship to have
the elements of genuine competitiveness because it wasn't that long
ago the Pumas went through the Rugby Championship winless and
that was pretty consistent. Now, not just from a Wallabies.
You know, they don't just knock over the Wallabies. There's
genuine interrepidation whenever they played the All Blacks.
Speaker 3 (31:52):
There is I wrote a column last week sort of
saying the Rugby Championship as a competition doesn't really mess
and I probably I still stand by that, but I
think it is healthy for this competition to be having
the kind of jeopardy, the kind of results that we've
got at the moment, and Argentina wouldn't been against them.
(32:13):
You're going over Savregan and shocking things up and sent
in another result over there. Tomming Onmer three, what changes
for the All Blacks for Wellington? Now we sort of
mentioned around that the ten do you see Scott Robinson
making that change at ten this week.
Speaker 2 (32:28):
Well, one point we haven't mentioned is Jordi Barrett's did
a medial ligaments to his knee as we are speaking
now on Monday. He was going for a scan today
but he looked very sore and medial ligament these are
typically four to six weeks. So I would not expect
to see Jordi Barrett before the England Test at Twickenham,
(32:51):
which from memory is late October, and that's a big
blow for the All Blacks. Jordi Barrett is a very
unique player and what he brings to that twelve jersey,
so you'd expect Antelina Brown to come in for him.
Elsewhere we touched on, I think Boden Barrett possibly gets
a chance. Ethan Blackheader is due to return from his
(33:17):
hamstring injury, and yeah, I think elsewhere maybe you'll see
Mark Tala. I don't think we'll see Noah Hotham just yet.
I think they'll keep him back for Japan. TJ. Pennarre's
last test at home at Wellington. I think they'll want
to give him a run off the bench. I think
(33:39):
they'll want to keep Will Jordan at fullback. That was
unplanned but he took his chance there and in the pack,
I think Sam Kane probably starts for his one hundred tests.
Not sure about the front row Ethan the group was
short of a gallop. For me, I expect to build
black scrum to dominate the Wallabies. That didn't happen and
(34:00):
some weird rulings there, but that they didn't dominate them
in the capacity I expected. What about you? Where do
you see changes? Look?
Speaker 3 (34:08):
I think they will maybe look at elsewhere at ten
this week. I think the opportunity is there. Having said that,
they'll probably do it again in Japan, so maybe two
tests in a row without your first choice ten and
David McKenzie.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
Maybe they don't do that.
Speaker 3 (34:24):
So I think there's going to be a little bit
of thinking about what they're doing Japan, albeit that's still
a month away. Just around how they playing things out.
I'd love to see Billy prop to get another crack
this week. Yeah, and I mean Caleb Clark has has
just come back in and taken his chance. But do
they look at Rico Yowani on the left wing again,
He's adamant, he's a center Rico, but maybe you can
(34:48):
sort of be Rico has been going back to the
wing and the end of the games. Maybe you can
change that out willst Tisi. I think keep them in there,
keep going, keep going, keep playing him and that may
facilitate a change.
Speaker 2 (35:02):
Maybe.
Speaker 3 (35:02):
Also maybe you move ball TDI back to number eight
this weekend and Ardie Savia comes off the bench.
Speaker 2 (35:07):
It's going to happen at some point. I just I
think Scott Robinson's quite a not nostalgic but sentimental. I'd
be very surprised if Sam Kane doesn't start as hun
just here. Whether it happens this week or not, not
too sure, but I think he will start his hundred.
Speaker 3 (35:23):
Well you could move west to t D back to
number eight. You could have Sam Kner open so flanker
and eating black head at blindside.
Speaker 2 (35:29):
Yeah, I think the all black small start Areadie pretty
hard to go away from that. But look, I want
to see what at eight. It has to happen at
some point soon. Well, I want to see it last
week when we said the week before, I'm not Razor
Harry Flummer.
Speaker 3 (35:47):
Yeah, they have another look at him this week your
four minutes unexpectedly off the bench and congratulations to him
on becoming all black number one thy two hundred and
twenty one. It was unexpected with blowing Barrett's illness, but
do they give him another crack off the bench this week?
Speaker 2 (36:00):
Well, first of all, a great story for a guy
that has really toiled away behind the scenes and was
very unheralded even right up until the point end of
this year. If he lose guided them to a Super
Rugby title after you know all the trials and tribulations.
He's had a number of injury setbacks. He early in
his career missed a couple of kicks that he was
(36:22):
vilified for on social media, so he's had to deal
with a lot of shit. And I know this was
very popular debut within the All Blacks, not just with
the Blues players. With Jordi Barrett out, I think he
probably does stand the mixt day. David de Hevelli is
another guy that hasn't seen any game time, so probably
going head to head there, but the fact they put
Plumber in last week suggests that he's Yeah. It does
(36:46):
so it's going to be a very interesting team.
Speaker 3 (36:48):
And it'snamed Thursday Morning around what changes the All Blacks
make final topic in the final four. As we touched
on their sm Kaines one hundredth for coming up this week.
I spoke to him last week ahead of his ninety
nine if you can hear that into you on the
news talks HEDI website if you so desire. But s look,
he hasn't got much more time left in the All
(37:08):
Blacks Juessey. It was Scott Robertson who said on Thursday
and he named the team that they are where it's
Scott Sam Caine swansong and how long does the song last?
Speaker 1 (37:18):
For?
Speaker 3 (37:19):
When did they stop singing? But he's been in a
very very good form this season. I only missed that
tackle on the weekend, you know, but everyone misses tackles.
But he's made it a conversation this year and it
didn't appear like it would be earlier on this season.
It felt like bench rugby and maybe some starts against
(37:39):
the Lesa Lights might be his lot. But he's closing
out his tenure as a Test rugby footballer in some
pretty good form. And I think you look back at
his career, he was in the shadow of Richie McCaw
for so long that Burt in twenty twelve was pretty
much a bench specialist for three or four seasons behind.
(38:01):
McCaw got a captaincy not at the World Cup in
twenty fifteen against Namibia, if I recall rightly, and then
has grown and grown since then, but he's always lived
in the shadow of Richie Mccooh. It's a really tough
position to be in for not only applied coming into issues,
but then you're also elevated to the All Blacks captaincy
(38:21):
in twenty twenty.
Speaker 2 (38:24):
He's not retiring just yet. But how will you look
back at Sam Kaine's career. M Yeah, just before I
get to that, I think what Sam Kane has done
is he's really surprised Razor because I think Raiser's perception
from the outside was that maybe he shouldn't have been
captain of the All Blacks. And I know for a
fact that Rais has been blown away by his presence
(38:46):
in the All Blacks, particularly around his leadership off the field,
helping Scott Barrett's, his respect within the playing group, the
MANI he carries, and so I think that's been a
big shift for Razor to see that in person. His career,
(39:06):
he has survived a lot of adversity. He broke his
neck in South Africa and it wasn't just his career uncertainty,
but you know there was real fears for whether he
would walk again. And at the time Russia Rasmus talked
about how he went and visited him at the hospital room.
(39:27):
So he came back from that. He's extremely dogged. He
has been one of the biggest hatting defenders in New
Zealand rugby. He lived and breathed the adversity of the
m Foster era, fronted through some of the worst times
in the professional era, some horror records and stood firm
(39:49):
and then that you know, the red card and the
World Cup final, and then comes back again this year.
So look, the character of the bloke, you cannot questions.
If there's anyone deserving to get to one hundred caps,
it is him. I as it stands right now, I
would have moved on from him last week. I think
(40:11):
you can justify the style of rugby that he plays,
coming in and starting against the spring Box. But I
think there's real questions now and particularly the style of
the Wallabies play, about moving on and getting to the future. Yes,
Sam Kame will get to one hundred caps, but what
is the future of the seven Jersy here. You know,
(40:31):
where's Dalton Papa Lei gone? Why isn't Peter Luckeye in
the squads? You know? Maybe that will come, But the
wider issue for me about what is the future of
the Seven Jews is almost more pressing than Sam can
getting too A hundred one hundred percent deserves that. But
from an interest perspective, I'm really fascinated about where the
(40:53):
Seven Jewsy goes because you talk about their legacy with mccare,
that's always going to be there. But who is the
next guy?
Speaker 3 (40:59):
Well, as far as I understand, Sam Kame is still
there until the end of the year. Yeah, so that's
the problem for twenty thirty five, finding out who the
next open sider is?
Speaker 2 (41:10):
Yeah, I think. But what's happening from a grooming perspective,
you and I right now, I can't say who is
the ext guy? But does that matter? Because look at look, look,
look you need to be planning for the future.
Speaker 3 (41:22):
But last year in the All Blacks courtez Ratima not there,
while it's a teating not there. They're until the All
Blacks best this year? So why not live in the
moment and go Sam Kaine is the best open side
flanker for the All Blacks. At this point in time,
we're going to seleck them in the seven jowsey. We'll
worry about that in twenty and twenty five. It's shown
that doesn't take long for certain players to get up
to speed and teas Rugi have Don and Papale's not
(41:44):
the best open side flanker at the moment behind Sam Kine,
then why give them the jersey?
Speaker 2 (41:49):
Now? Was a nod to the future. You can live
in the moment and plan for the future. I would
argue right now, Razor does not know who his next
open siders, and that's why Peter Luckey has to go
on the India Tour because if Sam Kain is a
guy right now, fine playing, but start grooming the next
guy and that's not happening.
Speaker 3 (42:09):
But yeah, I take your point, But then grooming is
only good to an a certain extent because you've got
to play what's in front of you at a certain time,
and you can you know, Filly Christie was the All
Black second choice half beat last year. Now he's probably
down to fourth fifth in the in the rankings. Different
coaches at midley. But I think you've got to play
for the test match that's in front of you, not
(42:30):
the one that's been played in twelve months time.
Speaker 2 (42:33):
That's fair. But I'll give you an example. How much
is Courses Latima benefiting from TJ pet Andarra's presence and
the All Blacks. So handing over that experience and that
that grooming process, particularly for a twenty one year old
kid like Lakey, is so important. So yep, have to
win in the now, but groom for the future.
Speaker 3 (42:55):
There we go on that notes, we will wrap up
Rugby Directs. Good to be in the Capitol. We'll be
back again next week to wrap up the first or
the first Rugby Championship under Scott Robinson and look aheads
to the end of year tour as well. All the
coverage on India here dot co dot India this week
and on News TALKSB, Gold Sport and iHeartRadio. That has
(43:16):
been Rugby direct with access solutions, elevating you and your
business to a higher level. We think last and bars
English is always for producing Rugby Directs.
Speaker 1 (43:28):
For more from News Talk, SEDB, listen live on air
or online and keep our shows with you wherever you
go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio
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