October 19, 2023 • 26 mins
Welcome to the RV Dreaming Podcast! In this episode, we dive deep into the world of vintage camper trailers with Paul, the founder of Vintage Camper Trailers Magazine. We'll explore the charm of old trailers, the art of refurbishing them, and how they can be transformed into modern-day businesses.
About the Host:
Stuart, the host, has been a nomad since 2020, traveling in his 40-foot Super C and 24-foot Sprinter van. He is accompanied by his two cats, Camden and Izzy. You can follow his adventures on Instagram at Stuart Doing Stuff.
Main Discussion:
- The allure of vintage trailers and their significance in the RV community.
- The history and evolution of trailers from the past to the present.
- Paul's journey in establishing the Vintage Camper Trailers Magazine.
- The significance of rallies in the vintage trailer community.
- The value and pricing of vintage trailers in today's market.
- The trend of using vintage trailers for Airbnb and other unique accommodations.
- The importance of experiencing a trailer firsthand before purchasing.
Conclusion:
Vintage camper trailers are more than just vehicles; they are a testament to history, craftsmanship, and a simpler time. Whether you're a seasoned RV enthusiast or new to the world of trailers, there's something magical about these classic beauties that captivate the heart. Join us in celebrating the charm and legacy of vintage camper trailers with Paul.
…
Connect With RVDreaming and Stuart:
Call our Hotline and Leave Us a Message: 714-623-0924
Follow Stuart on Instagram: StuartDoingStuff
Follow RVDreaming on Facebook: RVDreamingTV
Check Out Our Website: RVDreaming.tv
Affiliate Links From The Podcast:
Harvest Hosts | Boondockers Welcome | RVLife Trip Wizard
Want to be a guest on our program?
Reach Out! Stuart@RVDreaming.tv
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Stuart Doing Stuff (00:00):
We're going back in the day.
In this episode, we're going totalk with Paul from Vintage Camper
Trailers Magazine, and we're going totalk about old trailers, how you can
refurbish them, how you can updatethem with modern day amenities, and
how you can even take these classictrailers and start your own business.
That's all coming up on thisepisode of the RV Dreaming Podcast.
(00:21):
And welcome to the RV Dreaming Podcast.
In this podcast, we help youprepare for life on the road.
Whether you're in an RV, a van, or inthe back of your car, we teach you how
to get on the road and how to surviveyour first year as a full time nomad.
RV dreaming, start here, go anywhere.
My name is Stuart from StuartDoing Stuff on Instagram.
(00:41):
I've been a nomad since 2020, andI split my time between my 40 foot
Super C and my 24 foot Sprinter van.
And I travel with my twocats, Camden and Izzy.
Follow me on Instagram at Stuart DoingStuff for more stories and videos.
You know, we spend a lot of timetalking about these new rigs
that are coming off the lines.
We talk about build qualityfrom what's being put out by
(01:04):
the manufacturers nowadays.
And we spend a lot of time talkingabout tech and new stuff that's
happening in the RV business.
But I want to take a step.
Backwards today andnot just one step back.
Let's go decades and decades back.
Let's go back to those classic vintagecamper trailers that we all love to see.
And we have so many questions about,and who better to talk about that then
(01:29):
vintage camper trailer, mag trailers,magazine founder himself, Paul, welcome
to the RV dreaming podcast, Paul.
Vintage Camper Trailers: Thank you so much. (01:37):
undefined
We appreciate being here.
Stuart Doing Stuff (01:40):
No problem.
So real quick.
Tell me about your magazine
Vintage Camper Trailers (01:44):
Well the vintage camper trailers magazine, um came about
when I wrote an article for anotherMagazine because I thought I had vented
and had invented a new hobby I had an oldcar and I had bought an old trailer to
take my kids camping in Mainly becauseit was cheap not because I thought
it was cool or anything And i'm stillwriting that article for that magazine
(02:05):
About 14 years later and somewhere inthe middle there, I decided, well, maybe
the trailer guys need a similar typepublication that tells them when the
rallies are, you know, kind of picturea hot rod magazine shows pictures of
restored trailers, that type of thing.
So we've been doing the magazineand print and digital now for
well over we're in our 12th year.
(02:26):
Wow.
And so you've got the magazine and I knowyou also produce a lot of rallies as well.
We do, we do . We, we produce a lot.
I'm gonna have to take a look atthat moving forward because we've
got a lot on our calendar right now.
But we do, essentially for us, a rallyis, I always say it's like a classic
car show, but you get to sleep at it.
So you've gotta be nice to peopleand, and, 'cause you're gonna be
(02:48):
waking up with 'em for a few days.
So we do several days, typicallyThursday through Sunday, we have,
uh, live bands, we have activities.
Our events are typically heavily themed.
So it might be a Western themeor we've got a British invasion
theme or a Renaissance fairtheme among others coming up.
But, uh, yeah, they're, they're a blast,you know, over the years it's just become
(03:12):
a lot of good friends getting together.
Several times a year to camp.
Stuart Doing Stuff (03:15):
Yeah, I worked in a radio station back when I was younger.
It was, uh, oldies, fifties,sixties, uh, era kind of station.
And I remember doing classic carshows where traditionally restored
or older fifties, sixties, even someforties, you know, cars, and it was
just a lot of fun to, to kind of seethese classics and, and restored.
And you guys, that's kindof what these rallies are.
Vintage Camper Trailers (03:38):
They are.
And a lot of our guys actuallytow with the vintage cars.
So, um, it's, it turns into a, you know,a big vintage festival and the people even
dress up, especially if there's a theme.
So at our, our Western rally,we have a country band.
People will dress up in,in vintage country gear.
They'll decorate theirtrailers in that fashion.
(03:59):
Um, next year we have a Christmas in thetrailer park, which is a decorate with
vintage trailer, vintage Christmas stuff.
We'll have an ugly sweater contest.
We'll have a potluck, uh, Christmas dinnerand, and, and just a bunch of goofy fun.
It's really, if, if you're not willingto come and kind of be silly, it's.
Not for you, because it's justa goofy time of everything
(04:21):
from costumes to decorations.
Stuart Doing Stuff (04:23):
So if I wanted to come to one of these rallies, do I
have to have a vintage trailer or canI come in my other RVs or place for me
to park and camp out with everybody?
Or do I need to go find my own spot?
Vintage Camper Trailers (04:34):
Yeah, usually, you know, our, our events
have gotten so big that we stilltry to reserve some sites for new
trailers because we do want to.
So as long as we've got room, we welcomepeople that want to come and play.
And, and a lot of times those people comein, in their new white box and they end up
falling in love with what we're doing andended up getting a vintage trailer too.
(04:57):
But yeah, usually we've got some space.
We do a big rally in San Dimas.
That's 280 vintage trailersand about 150 classic cars.
And we probably hold back.
10 percent or so for,for, for new trailers.
And, and we're pretty liberal.
I mean, you know, we let the retros inand the fiberglass stuff and, and, uh,
a lot of those aren't as old as someof them, but they kind of fit the vibe.
Stuart Doing Stuff (05:20):
You know, and that kind of asks, brings up my next question.
What is considerednowadays a vintage trailer?
Vintage Camper Trailers (05:26):
Yeah.
So somewhere in the, in the 1970s.
The design of trailers reallystarted to change and, and, and
the design of everything, theuse of plastics in, in, in stuff.
And, and so you went from a trailerthat was around you, what we'd call a
canned ham shape, or before that a breadloaf shaped trailer to square boxes.
(05:47):
With, you know, white sidesand plastic interiors.
And so depending on the event and, and,and who you ask 72, 75, 70s, somewhere
around there is when they really startedto change and they just didn't really
have those warm wood interiors and theclassic pastel colors and, you know,
the stuff that really looks vintage.
Stuart Doing Stuff (06:09):
Maybe this is a subjective question, but to be vintage.
You talked about restoring.
You guys also do a lot ofrestoring of classic trailers.
Can I restore a trailerto be considered vintage?
Utilizing the same color schemes orthe same materials, but also add maybe
(06:31):
some modern conveniences like solarand lithium or does it need to be pure
era style to be considered vintage
Vintage Camper Trailers (06:40):
were were really non discriminating as far as that goes.
Because in today's camping worldand things, you're going to need
and want some modern conveniences.
And so I just saw a beautiful47 Spartan Manor this last
weekend that was stunning to me.
But that model didn'teven come with a bathroom.
And they were able to incorporatea bathroom in their brand new
(07:02):
floor plan and everything.
And so that's a real common upgrade.
And of course, airconditioning and things.
But a lot of the trailersback in the 40s and 50s, Were
designed for people to live in.
So 25 foot Spartan Manor, for instance,doesn't have a bathroom because it was
made to go into a trailer park where youwould have had a bathhouse that you could
(07:24):
use and you might live there for severalmonths while you worked at the factory
until you move to go work somewhere else.
And so Uh, some of these, uh, like I havea 28 foot 1955 Spartan, that was really
more of a mobile home back in the day.
People didn't necessarily camp in it.
So we've added tanks and things to makeit much more campable, but from the
(07:46):
exterior, it looks like a vintage trailer.
Now there's...
Flat screen TVs hidden in, inclosets and things, but to just walk
in, it looks straight outta 1955.
Stuart Doing Stuff (07:57):
You know that, that's kind of an interesting,
'cause it is a subjective thing.
It's kinda like if you're restoringa classic car, but you wanna put
in a, a stereo with Bluetoothand a CD player or whatever, or,
Vintage Camper Trailers (08:08):
or upgrade a motor, you know?
Yeah.
Have a motor that willrun on today's freeways.
You know, I mean, so, Yeah,it's, uh, there's both.
There's certainly both.
Stuart Doing Stuff (08:17):
You know what, I would ask, what shocks you the most
between, like, the progression betweenthese trailers that you were saying
pre 1974 stuff and the newer ones?
I mean, we know they're getting bigger,but what would you say as far as the
build quality of the stuff that'scoming off the line now as opposed to
the stuff that was produced back then?
Vintage Camper Trailers: Well, they are getting bigger. (08:38):
undefined
My 28 foot Spartan is considered abig trailer in the vintage world.
And if I'm in a truck stop with,with a modern trailer, I'm dwarfed.
I mean, it's, you know, it's minuscule.
We do have little tiny, youknow, a 14, 16 foot Shasta is
a real common trailer for us.
(08:58):
And they don't have a bathroomand they don't, most of them
even have a refrigerator.
They ran with blocks of ice andthings, but it, the new ones.
You know, I mean, they are what they are.
They're coming off a production line.
There's certainly differentlevels of quality, but man,
these, these vintage trailers,some of them have lasted already.
For decades and decades.
(09:19):
And they were built with real wood,real metal, you know, their, their arch
nemesis is water, but if they don'tget wet, they'd probably last forever.
You know, we're still finding barn findssitting in, in sheds and things that
look like they're off the showroom floor.
We were featuring one ofthe next magazine that.
Still has the tags on theseats, and it's a, it's a 40,
(09:42):
I want to say a 49 Travelees.
It's still got the original tags on theseats from when it was manufactured.
I mean the thing's just anincredible time capsule.
. Stuart Doing Stuff (09:51):
You know, so who are these vintage trailers for?
It doesn't sound like a modernday full time digital nomad would
probably be very comfortablein one of these smaller things.
Are these mostly for weekenders orretirees or just people looking to try and
get out or who's buying these nowadays?
Vintage Camper Trailers (10:09):
You know, I, I, I think it's, I think it's people that have
some connection to the culture and, youknow, I, I, I describe us as old souls.
I mean, I've always had old cars.
I honestly, I mean, I like camping.
All right.
But honestly, to me, it's about thevintage trailers and the classic cars.
(10:30):
That's where my real passion lies.
Not necessarily in the camping, althoughwe camp, you know, we have a cab
over and we camp otherwise as well.
But I think that it's, it's more ofa, more of an activity for most people
going to the shows, going to theevents, you know, for a few hundred
bucks, you can go for the whole weekendand get a pancake breakfast and live
music and see your friend it's eventhough those prices have gone up,
(10:53):
especially on the West coast, truthfully.
It's a few hundred dollarsfor several days of fun and
entertainment and camping and food.
And, um, even though we've seenthose prices rise, you know, really
it's not, not a huge investment.
Uh, if you can find a little trailer,fix it up yourself and then go
meet a whole group of people thatwill welcome you in and you can go
(11:15):
have fun with a few times a year.
Stuart Doing Stuff (11:17):
I'm looking on your website right now.
And on your website, there's a sectionwhere there's a classifieds where people
can buy and sell different trailers.
And I'm looking at some of these and it,it really is just a blast from the past.
Vintage Camper Trailers (11:32):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And by and large, that section of ourwebsite is our most traveled by far.
I mean, people looking to buy selling,um, we just opened up the ability to
take your trailer to auction for youwith And so the classifieds are really.
(11:52):
A big part of what we do in helpingpeople buy and sell trailers.
Stuart Doing Stuff (11:56):
So I would love to get your help on this.
Okay.
Cause I'm a total novice when it comesto these old school trailers, other
than I think they're really cool.
All right.
So I'm looking at one here.
It's a very rare 1948.
Vintage Spartan trailer, everythingis new, clean title, pink slips, ready
to go, designer features, and it looksawesome, the shine on this thing is,
(12:19):
is amazing, and it looks great, Ican't get the photos to load right now,
but that just might be my internet.
Um, the um, the thing on thisis uh, 125, 000, the asking
price, I'm trying to find out.
How, how are these valued booked at?
(12:39):
I mean, is it, we know thata lot, let me rephrase that.
I think a lot of times on classiccars, there's, there's a book,
you know, like a blue book, justlike you have these normal cars.
But as any, as, as anything else,something's only worth as much as
someone's willing to pay for it.
So if I wanted to do this, if Iwanted to restore one of these
trailers, what makes, yeah.
(13:01):
These old ones valuable and, andwhat is it that, that, what, what
is it that holds their value?
Vintage Camper Trailers (13:09):
Well, you hit the nail on the head.
They're worth what you can get for them.
And we've seen just a crazy escalationin prices go up and everybody keeps
pushing it and pushing it and pushing it.
You know, it doesn't necessarily.
just because you put a lot of moneyinto anything mean that you're going
to get that money back necessarilyand so you've got to be smart
about that doing a restoration.
(13:30):
I just consulted with somebody sellingan Airstream trailer the other day
and they literally want almost doubleof what That type of trailer usually
goes for trying to justify the moneythey put into it in their time.
And unfortunately, if nobody'swilling to pay it, it doesn't matter.
You know, and so trailers up over the sixfigure mark, you know, obviously there's
(13:55):
a more limited customer base for that.
And a lot of those end up.
Going to the auction to the biggercollectors and stuff that that will
bid them up But most vintage trailersa finished vintage trailer that you can
camp in that's you know reasonably cleanand stuff are probably going to be more
in the you know, six to 16, 000 range andthen you know up around the 30 40, 000
(14:22):
mark you can get something pretty darnnice and and then beyond that, you know
You're looking at collector stuff or maybeit's loaded with Solar and boondocking
and, and, and other bells and whistles.
Bathrooms make a big differenceif it's got a bathroom in it.
It will bring markedlymore than if it does not.
So yeah, there's some factors Spartans andaluminum frame trailers will bring more,
(14:47):
cause they're just more durable, you know,like your airstreams and your streamlines
and your silver streaks and, and those,they're just a more durable going down
the road, you know, they're not going towiggle apart like, like a, a wooden frame
trailer may have more of a propensityto, so yeah, all of those things.
And.
(15:08):
They're just worth whatpeople will pay for them.
Stuart Doing Stuff (15:11):
I'm looking at one and and I see a lot that are in your
price range So the ones i'm pullingout are more exceptions, so don't get
scared There are exceptions on there,yes, there there are exceptions i'm
looking at one that is marked as soldit is a 1935 Is it a bolus road chief
vintage travel trailer fully restored?
This thing's amazing It'ssold the asking price on this.
(15:34):
I don't know if that'sthe sole price 175 000
Yeah, this thing lookslike a spaceship, man.
This is really cool.
Vintage Camper Trailers (15:42):
Yes.
And, and so that bolusdid sell in that range.
I don't know what the final price was,but that's a professional builder with.
Lots of credentials and a bolus isliterally, uh, for most people in
this hobby, that one of the HolyGrail trailers, I mean, there's a
handful of them, um, they're highlysought after that one in particular.
(16:05):
Um, I saw it being builtand it was literally.
Fabricated better than brand new, butwith all original styling and really
just a massive attention to detail.
And, and this builder has areputation that they demand,
you know, a higher price.
And I, I do know that they wouldn'thave sold that trailer if they didn't
get awful close to that price though.
Stuart Doing Stuff (16:27):
I mean, it's on the, uh, vintage camper trailers
website on the classified section.
If you want to look at these photosand we can probably link it into
the show notes, but yeah, I'm justgoing through these pictures, man.
This thing is gorgeous.
It's absolutely.
Yes, it is.
Vintage Camper Trailers (16:41):
And it's like, it's honestly better in person.
I mean, it's, it's the pictures are nice.
That was at our big rally in San Dimaslast year where they took those, but
yeah, it's, it's a stunning trailerand all of their trailers are, I mean,
that's the type of quality they build.
Stuart Doing Stuff (16:55):
Yeah.
I, I, I.
I have a, a friend, two of 'em, asa matter of fact, that went out and
this might not be considered vintageand it's definitely not a trailer, but
there's only, I think they researchedprobably only a dozen left in the world.
They picked up these, uh, it's a rev con.
Okay.
And I don't know ifyou're familiar with them.
Absolutely.
. You know, and, and I rememberwe were, we were at an event and
(17:15):
they, the two of them, we wereall talking and they're like, we
should have a rev con reunion rally.
And it's like, It's it right here.
The only two that are, you know, thatare running in the United States are both
right here, right now, you know, and,and so it's interesting to see as we move
maybe into the next decade as those, Ithink they were built in the eighties,
(17:37):
you know, tack on another decade of ages.
Those are the ones that, that areconsidered older, more vintage, still
on the road, still up and running.
Vintage Camper Trailers (17:46):
Yeah, and and motorhomes we have a little forgiveness
for and I think revcons even dated backinto the 70s, but we have Um, like at our
san dimas rally, we have a whole sectionof the gmc rvs those big tandem axle gmcs
um, and they're mid 70s and Yeah, theythey continue to build some pretty cool.
(18:08):
Uh, rvs even a little later intothe 70s and 80s that still kind
of have a Classic vibe to him.
And the next issue of the magazine,we have a 72 Barth, which is a
neat brick RV that a guy redid.
Yeah, we love, I mean, we'reVintage Camper Trailers is the
name, but we like the RVs andthe vans and stuff just as much.
Stuart Doing Stuff (18:28):
There's a trend growing on Airbnb for unique, uh,
kind of things, and I've heard ofpeople buying these vintage trailers
and putting them just on their land.
Maybe they have two or three or fiveor whatever acres, and they just
put these trailers on the land andthey're renting them out overnight
for hundreds of dollars a night.
(18:50):
Are you familiar with any of those?
Vintage Camper Trailers (18:52):
Uh have stayed in several of them.
Um just gave away packages at our eventlast weekend for uh, free two night
stays for a couple of them procuretrailers for some of them and um, Yeah,
it's a it's a huge deal people love it.
I love it when we travel we try tofind one and I've stayed in them around
(19:15):
the country and we've seen uh, weddingvenues With six or eight trailers out
there that the bridal party can stay in.
And then they have theweddings on their grounds.
There's campgrounds that offer multiplevintage trailers for overnight stays.
Yeah.
People, you know, people likethat connection with the old
(19:36):
stuff and it is great eye candy.
I mean, I'm sure a lot of people thatsubscribe to our magazine have no
intention of owning a vintage trailer perse, but, but, but they're fun to look at.
Stuart Doing Stuff (19:45):
You have a lot of followers on social media, mostly
because of the images, and it isreally just cool to scroll through
all of these and look at Things thatI've never seen in real life, but just
go, wow, those are, are so amazing.
What are your social handles?
If people wanted to goand check those out?
Vintage Camper Trailers (20:01):
It's all vintage camper trailers.
So vintage camper trailers.
com at vintage camper trailerson Instagram and Facebook.
And then we have groups andthings under the same name.
So yeah, we're pretty easy to find.
Everything's accessiblethrough the main website.
Of course.
Stuart Doing StuffS (20:16):
I'm just looking at some of these.
What are your personal favorites?
Vintage Camper Trailers (20:19):
I, I would have to say that, uh,
number one, I like unique stuff.
We've really, we justbecame empty nesters.
So, we've kind of reduced our bigcollection down to something more
manageable so we can travel more.
Our main trailer...
is a 1955 Spartan and I'm really a Spartanguy, probably I would say at heart.
(20:40):
And then we've got the original trailerwe ever bought, which was a 1962 DeVille.
We bought a Shasta from the originalfamily that we've stayed in contact with.
For 15 years since we bought it.
And so some of those pieceswe'll never get rid of.
We've got a vagabond, a 48 vagabondthat we'll never get rid of.
And, and then I have a handful ofwhat I think are just neat little
(21:03):
unique, really rare tent type trailers.
So they're easy to store.
They're small, they're goodfor displays and stuff.
And, and, and they're very unique, butI didn't say the short answer to the
question is I'm kind of a Spartan guy.
I like the Spartan trailers.
Stuart Doing Stuff (21:19):
So on these rallies, you talk about like, I love looking at
the photos, but like you said earlier,you got to see these things in person.
So if I want to come to these rallies,but I don't want to camp or I I've
got other things, can I, do youjust, do you do day passes or is
there a fee or how does that work?
Vintage Camper Trailers (21:33):
Our, our rallies are like most, and I would
check with every rally becausethere could be variations, but
typically our drill is on Saturday.
From 10 a.
m.
until 2 p.
m.
You can walk in and look around likeyou were at a car show and most of the
owners will certainly engage with you andanswer questions and many, many will let
(21:54):
you into their trailers to look around.
There's always trailersfor sale to at rallies.
And if you are looking to possiblyget into the hobby, I would strongly
recommend that you walk into a fewtrailers and get a sense of the space.
Some have taller roofs, some haverounded walls, some have straight walls.
(22:14):
I would try to get a sense for thespace and what you really want.
Don't just go buy something because it'sthe first thing you see on Craigslist
and, and you gotta have it because itmight not be the best trailer for you.
If you go walk in and out of afew and get a sense for the space.
I think you're better off.
So yeah, at our rallies and mostrallies, I would say there is some open
(22:37):
house period where you can just comein and look around and talk to people.
Stuart Doing Stuff (22:40):
You know, I think that's the same advice
that we give to people lookingto buy a new trailer nowadays.
You have to go and see them or rentone or, or go to one of these little
lots where you can stay in a vintageone overnight and make your pros and
cons list, you know, cause no one.
Camps and RVs the same way and so you gotto find something that meets your needs
Vintage Camper Trailers (23:03):
I would also add just as an aside if you are gonna buy
something free isn't necessarily here Bet,you know spend as much as you can afford
to spend to get something that's moredecent and campable because Sometimes free
is free for a reason, and unless you justget real lucky, you're better off spending
(23:24):
a little more money to get somethingthat's usable that you can kind of finish.
Unless you've got great skills andyou're just gonna do a real awesome
restoration, they can be a lot of work.
I would think that it's the sameamount of work possibly as a, uh,
as restoring an old car, but youdon't have the motor, which is a huge
expense in restoring classic cars.
Yeah, and that's why I restore trailers.
(23:48):
I love hot rods.
I have some, but they costme a fortune because I don't
like doing mechanical work.
I muddle through some of it, butmost of it I have to pay for.
And so I got, that's part of why Igot into doing trailers, but if you're
at all handy and can screw and gluestuff together, honestly, you can
figure out how to fix the trailer.
They're not that complicated.
(24:09):
So, um, you take them apart,you see how they're built.
Chances are you're going to build itbetter than it was ever built originally.
Just putting it back together becausethey really were thrown together quickly.
It's amazing.
They last as long as they did.
Stuart Doing Stuff (24:23):
And especially the older ones, they don't have the kind of
tech that the new RVs and the new trailershave out there with the touchscreens
and all the, and all that wiring tech.
Vintage Camper Trailers (24:34):
At best you might have an extension cord that turns
on a light and powers two plugs, youknow, I mean there is no tech For people
again wanting to try and take a lookat your awesome photos following on
social or subscribe to your magazineTell people one more time how people
can get in touch with you Vintagecamper trailers.com or Instagram and
Facebook at vintage camper trailers.
Stuart Doing Stuff (24:56):
Well, I'm gonna try and make it a point to get out
to one of your rallies sometimes goodif I'm in the area, because it just
sounds like a whole bunch of fun.
Real, and, and, and healthy, safe,family friendly, fun too, you know?
Yeah.
Where you can kind of take a look backand, and be a little nostalgic on stuff.
Vintage Camper Trailers (25:11):
And there's a lot of characters there that you can talk to.
So we have some prettyeclectic folks in our, in our.
Crowd
Stuart Doing Stuff (25:18):
that's awesome all right paul thank you so much for joining
us today on the rv dreaming podcast i'mgoing to go and make sure i subscribe to
your instagram i make sure everyone elsedoes that too all right super thank you
thanks for listening to the rv dreamingpodcast if you like what you heard and you
got something out of this episode pleasetake a moment and leave us a review on
apple podcast or spotify it really helpsus get more exposure and it helps you More
(25:40):
people just like you thrive on the road.
So until next time, enjoy yourtravels, make them safe, make
them fun, and make them memorable.
This is RV Dreaming.
Start here.
Go anywhere.
We'll see you in the next episode.
Thanks for listening tothe RV Dreaming podcast.
See the action on Instagram.
Steward doing stuff.
Hear about it on the podcast.
Be sure to subscribe.
We'll see you in the next episode.
We're going back in the day.
In this episode, we're going totalk with Paul from Vintage Camper
Trailers Magazine, and we're going totalk about old trailers, how you can
refurbish them, how you can updatethem with modern day amenities, and
how you can even take these classictrailers and start your own business.
That's all coming up on thisepisode of the RV Dreaming Podcast.
(00:21):
And welcome to the RV Dreaming Podcast.
In this podcast, we help youprepare for life on the road.
Whether you're in an RV, a van, or inthe back of your car, we teach you how
to get on the road and how to surviveyour first year as a full time nomad.
RV dreaming, start here, go anywhere.
My name is Stuart from StuartDoing Stuff on Instagram.
(00:41):
I've been a nomad since 2020, andI split my time between my 40 foot
Super C and my 24 foot Sprinter van.
And I travel with my twocats, Camden and Izzy.
Follow me on Instagram at Stuart DoingStuff for more stories and videos.
You know, we spend a lot of timetalking about these new rigs
that are coming off the lines.
We talk about build qualityfrom what's being put out by
(01:04):
the manufacturers nowadays.
And we spend a lot of time talkingabout tech and new stuff that's
happening in the RV business.
But I want to take a step.
Backwards today andnot just one step back.
Let's go decades and decades back.
Let's go back to those classic vintagecamper trailers that we all love to see.
And we have so many questions about,and who better to talk about that then
(01:29):
vintage camper trailer, mag trailers,magazine founder himself, Paul, welcome
to the RV dreaming podcast, Paul.
Vintage Camper Trailers: Thank you so much. (01:37):
undefined
We appreciate being here.
Stuart Doing Stuff (01:40):
No problem.
So real quick.
Tell me about your magazine
Vintage Camper Trailers (01:44):
Well the vintage camper trailers magazine, um came about
when I wrote an article for anotherMagazine because I thought I had vented
and had invented a new hobby I had an oldcar and I had bought an old trailer to
take my kids camping in Mainly becauseit was cheap not because I thought
it was cool or anything And i'm stillwriting that article for that magazine
(02:05):
About 14 years later and somewhere inthe middle there, I decided, well, maybe
the trailer guys need a similar typepublication that tells them when the
rallies are, you know, kind of picturea hot rod magazine shows pictures of
restored trailers, that type of thing.
So we've been doing the magazineand print and digital now for
well over we're in our 12th year.
(02:26):
Wow.
And so you've got the magazine and I knowyou also produce a lot of rallies as well.
We do, we do . We, we produce a lot.
I'm gonna have to take a look atthat moving forward because we've
got a lot on our calendar right now.
But we do, essentially for us, a rallyis, I always say it's like a classic
car show, but you get to sleep at it.
So you've gotta be nice to peopleand, and, 'cause you're gonna be
(02:48):
waking up with 'em for a few days.
So we do several days, typicallyThursday through Sunday, we have,
uh, live bands, we have activities.
Our events are typically heavily themed.
So it might be a Western themeor we've got a British invasion
theme or a Renaissance fairtheme among others coming up.
But, uh, yeah, they're, they're a blast,you know, over the years it's just become
(03:12):
a lot of good friends getting together.
Several times a year to camp.
Stuart Doing Stuff (03:15):
Yeah, I worked in a radio station back when I was younger.
It was, uh, oldies, fifties,sixties, uh, era kind of station.
And I remember doing classic carshows where traditionally restored
or older fifties, sixties, even someforties, you know, cars, and it was
just a lot of fun to, to kind of seethese classics and, and restored.
And you guys, that's kindof what these rallies are.
Vintage Camper Trailers (03:38):
They are.
And a lot of our guys actuallytow with the vintage cars.
So, um, it's, it turns into a, you know,a big vintage festival and the people even
dress up, especially if there's a theme.
So at our, our Western rally,we have a country band.
People will dress up in,in vintage country gear.
They'll decorate theirtrailers in that fashion.
(03:59):
Um, next year we have a Christmas in thetrailer park, which is a decorate with
vintage trailer, vintage Christmas stuff.
We'll have an ugly sweater contest.
We'll have a potluck, uh, Christmas dinnerand, and, and just a bunch of goofy fun.
It's really, if, if you're not willingto come and kind of be silly, it's.
Not for you, because it's justa goofy time of everything
(04:21):
from costumes to decorations.
Stuart Doing Stuff (04:23):
So if I wanted to come to one of these rallies, do I
have to have a vintage trailer or canI come in my other RVs or place for me
to park and camp out with everybody?
Or do I need to go find my own spot?
Vintage Camper Trailers (04:34):
Yeah, usually, you know, our, our events
have gotten so big that we stilltry to reserve some sites for new
trailers because we do want to.
So as long as we've got room, we welcomepeople that want to come and play.
And, and a lot of times those people comein, in their new white box and they end up
falling in love with what we're doing andended up getting a vintage trailer too.
(04:57):
But yeah, usually we've got some space.
We do a big rally in San Dimas.
That's 280 vintage trailersand about 150 classic cars.
And we probably hold back.
10 percent or so for,for, for new trailers.
And, and we're pretty liberal.
I mean, you know, we let the retros inand the fiberglass stuff and, and, uh,
a lot of those aren't as old as someof them, but they kind of fit the vibe.
Stuart Doing Stuff (05:20):
You know, and that kind of asks, brings up my next question.
What is considerednowadays a vintage trailer?
Vintage Camper Trailers (05:26):
Yeah.
So somewhere in the, in the 1970s.
The design of trailers reallystarted to change and, and, and
the design of everything, theuse of plastics in, in, in stuff.
And, and so you went from a trailerthat was around you, what we'd call a
canned ham shape, or before that a breadloaf shaped trailer to square boxes.
(05:47):
With, you know, white sidesand plastic interiors.
And so depending on the event and, and,and who you ask 72, 75, 70s, somewhere
around there is when they really startedto change and they just didn't really
have those warm wood interiors and theclassic pastel colors and, you know,
the stuff that really looks vintage.
Stuart Doing Stuff (06:09):
Maybe this is a subjective question, but to be vintage.
You talked about restoring.
You guys also do a lot ofrestoring of classic trailers.
Can I restore a trailerto be considered vintage?
Utilizing the same color schemes orthe same materials, but also add maybe
(06:31):
some modern conveniences like solarand lithium or does it need to be pure
era style to be considered vintage
Vintage Camper Trailers (06:40):
were were really non discriminating as far as that goes.
Because in today's camping worldand things, you're going to need
and want some modern conveniences.
And so I just saw a beautiful47 Spartan Manor this last
weekend that was stunning to me.
But that model didn'teven come with a bathroom.
And they were able to incorporatea bathroom in their brand new
(07:02):
floor plan and everything.
And so that's a real common upgrade.
And of course, airconditioning and things.
But a lot of the trailersback in the 40s and 50s, Were
designed for people to live in.
So 25 foot Spartan Manor, for instance,doesn't have a bathroom because it was
made to go into a trailer park where youwould have had a bathhouse that you could
(07:24):
use and you might live there for severalmonths while you worked at the factory
until you move to go work somewhere else.
And so Uh, some of these, uh, like I havea 28 foot 1955 Spartan, that was really
more of a mobile home back in the day.
People didn't necessarily camp in it.
So we've added tanks and things to makeit much more campable, but from the
(07:46):
exterior, it looks like a vintage trailer.
Now there's...
Flat screen TVs hidden in, inclosets and things, but to just walk
in, it looks straight outta 1955.
Stuart Doing Stuff (07:57):
You know that, that's kind of an interesting,
'cause it is a subjective thing.
It's kinda like if you're restoringa classic car, but you wanna put
in a, a stereo with Bluetoothand a CD player or whatever, or,
Vintage Camper Trailers (08:08):
or upgrade a motor, you know?
Yeah.
Have a motor that willrun on today's freeways.
You know, I mean, so, Yeah,it's, uh, there's both.
There's certainly both.
Stuart Doing Stuff (08:17):
You know what, I would ask, what shocks you the most
between, like, the progression betweenthese trailers that you were saying
pre 1974 stuff and the newer ones?
I mean, we know they're getting bigger,but what would you say as far as the
build quality of the stuff that'scoming off the line now as opposed to
the stuff that was produced back then?
Vintage Camper Trailers: Well, they are getting bigger. (08:38):
undefined
My 28 foot Spartan is considered abig trailer in the vintage world.
And if I'm in a truck stop with,with a modern trailer, I'm dwarfed.
I mean, it's, you know, it's minuscule.
We do have little tiny, youknow, a 14, 16 foot Shasta is
a real common trailer for us.
(08:58):
And they don't have a bathroomand they don't, most of them
even have a refrigerator.
They ran with blocks of ice andthings, but it, the new ones.
You know, I mean, they are what they are.
They're coming off a production line.
There's certainly differentlevels of quality, but man,
these, these vintage trailers,some of them have lasted already.
For decades and decades.
(09:19):
And they were built with real wood,real metal, you know, their, their arch
nemesis is water, but if they don'tget wet, they'd probably last forever.
You know, we're still finding barn findssitting in, in sheds and things that
look like they're off the showroom floor.
We were featuring one ofthe next magazine that.
Still has the tags on theseats, and it's a, it's a 40,
(09:42):
I want to say a 49 Travelees.
It's still got the original tags on theseats from when it was manufactured.
I mean the thing's just anincredible time capsule.
. Stuart Doing Stuff (09:51):
You know, so who are these vintage trailers for?
It doesn't sound like a modernday full time digital nomad would
probably be very comfortablein one of these smaller things.
Are these mostly for weekenders orretirees or just people looking to try and
get out or who's buying these nowadays?
Vintage Camper Trailers (10:09):
You know, I, I, I think it's, I think it's people that have
some connection to the culture and, youknow, I, I, I describe us as old souls.
I mean, I've always had old cars.
I honestly, I mean, I like camping.
All right.
But honestly, to me, it's about thevintage trailers and the classic cars.
(10:30):
That's where my real passion lies.
Not necessarily in the camping, althoughwe camp, you know, we have a cab
over and we camp otherwise as well.
But I think that it's, it's more ofa, more of an activity for most people
going to the shows, going to theevents, you know, for a few hundred
bucks, you can go for the whole weekendand get a pancake breakfast and live
music and see your friend it's eventhough those prices have gone up,
(10:53):
especially on the West coast, truthfully.
It's a few hundred dollarsfor several days of fun and
entertainment and camping and food.
And, um, even though we've seenthose prices rise, you know, really
it's not, not a huge investment.
Uh, if you can find a little trailer,fix it up yourself and then go
meet a whole group of people thatwill welcome you in and you can go
(11:15):
have fun with a few times a year.
Stuart Doing Stuff (11:17):
I'm looking on your website right now.
And on your website, there's a sectionwhere there's a classifieds where people
can buy and sell different trailers.
And I'm looking at some of these and it,it really is just a blast from the past.
Vintage Camper Trailers (11:32):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And by and large, that section of ourwebsite is our most traveled by far.
I mean, people looking to buy selling,um, we just opened up the ability to
take your trailer to auction for youwith And so the classifieds are really.
(11:52):
A big part of what we do in helpingpeople buy and sell trailers.
Stuart Doing Stuff (11:56):
So I would love to get your help on this.
Okay.
Cause I'm a total novice when it comesto these old school trailers, other
than I think they're really cool.
All right.
So I'm looking at one here.
It's a very rare 1948.
Vintage Spartan trailer, everythingis new, clean title, pink slips, ready
to go, designer features, and it looksawesome, the shine on this thing is,
(12:19):
is amazing, and it looks great, Ican't get the photos to load right now,
but that just might be my internet.
Um, the um, the thing on thisis uh, 125, 000, the asking
price, I'm trying to find out.
How, how are these valued booked at?
(12:39):
I mean, is it, we know thata lot, let me rephrase that.
I think a lot of times on classiccars, there's, there's a book,
you know, like a blue book, justlike you have these normal cars.
But as any, as, as anything else,something's only worth as much as
someone's willing to pay for it.
So if I wanted to do this, if Iwanted to restore one of these
trailers, what makes, yeah.
(13:01):
These old ones valuable and, andwhat is it that, that, what, what
is it that holds their value?
Vintage Camper Trailers (13:09):
Well, you hit the nail on the head.
They're worth what you can get for them.
And we've seen just a crazy escalationin prices go up and everybody keeps
pushing it and pushing it and pushing it.
You know, it doesn't necessarily.
just because you put a lot of moneyinto anything mean that you're going
to get that money back necessarilyand so you've got to be smart
about that doing a restoration.
(13:30):
I just consulted with somebody sellingan Airstream trailer the other day
and they literally want almost doubleof what That type of trailer usually
goes for trying to justify the moneythey put into it in their time.
And unfortunately, if nobody'swilling to pay it, it doesn't matter.
You know, and so trailers up over the sixfigure mark, you know, obviously there's
(13:55):
a more limited customer base for that.
And a lot of those end up.
Going to the auction to the biggercollectors and stuff that that will
bid them up But most vintage trailersa finished vintage trailer that you can
camp in that's you know reasonably cleanand stuff are probably going to be more
in the you know, six to 16, 000 range andthen you know up around the 30 40, 000
(14:22):
mark you can get something pretty darnnice and and then beyond that, you know
You're looking at collector stuff or maybeit's loaded with Solar and boondocking
and, and, and other bells and whistles.
Bathrooms make a big differenceif it's got a bathroom in it.
It will bring markedlymore than if it does not.
So yeah, there's some factors Spartans andaluminum frame trailers will bring more,
(14:47):
cause they're just more durable, you know,like your airstreams and your streamlines
and your silver streaks and, and those,they're just a more durable going down
the road, you know, they're not going towiggle apart like, like a, a wooden frame
trailer may have more of a propensityto, so yeah, all of those things.
And.
(15:08):
They're just worth whatpeople will pay for them.
Stuart Doing Stuff (15:11):
I'm looking at one and and I see a lot that are in your
price range So the ones i'm pullingout are more exceptions, so don't get
scared There are exceptions on there,yes, there there are exceptions i'm
looking at one that is marked as soldit is a 1935 Is it a bolus road chief
vintage travel trailer fully restored?
This thing's amazing It'ssold the asking price on this.
(15:34):
I don't know if that'sthe sole price 175 000
Yeah, this thing lookslike a spaceship, man.
This is really cool.
Vintage Camper Trailers (15:42):
Yes.
And, and so that bolusdid sell in that range.
I don't know what the final price was,but that's a professional builder with.
Lots of credentials and a bolus isliterally, uh, for most people in
this hobby, that one of the HolyGrail trailers, I mean, there's a
handful of them, um, they're highlysought after that one in particular.
(16:05):
Um, I saw it being builtand it was literally.
Fabricated better than brand new, butwith all original styling and really
just a massive attention to detail.
And, and this builder has areputation that they demand,
you know, a higher price.
And I, I do know that they wouldn'thave sold that trailer if they didn't
get awful close to that price though.
Stuart Doing Stuff (16:27):
I mean, it's on the, uh, vintage camper trailers
website on the classified section.
If you want to look at these photosand we can probably link it into
the show notes, but yeah, I'm justgoing through these pictures, man.
This thing is gorgeous.
It's absolutely.
Yes, it is.
Vintage Camper Trailers (16:41):
And it's like, it's honestly better in person.
I mean, it's, it's the pictures are nice.
That was at our big rally in San Dimaslast year where they took those, but
yeah, it's, it's a stunning trailerand all of their trailers are, I mean,
that's the type of quality they build.
Stuart Doing Stuff (16:55):
Yeah.
I, I, I.
I have a, a friend, two of 'em, asa matter of fact, that went out and
this might not be considered vintageand it's definitely not a trailer, but
there's only, I think they researchedprobably only a dozen left in the world.
They picked up these, uh, it's a rev con.
Okay.
And I don't know ifyou're familiar with them.
Absolutely.
. You know, and, and I rememberwe were, we were at an event and
(17:15):
they, the two of them, we wereall talking and they're like, we
should have a rev con reunion rally.
And it's like, It's it right here.
The only two that are, you know, thatare running in the United States are both
right here, right now, you know, and,and so it's interesting to see as we move
maybe into the next decade as those, Ithink they were built in the eighties,
(17:37):
you know, tack on another decade of ages.
Those are the ones that, that areconsidered older, more vintage, still
on the road, still up and running.
Vintage Camper Trailers (17:46):
Yeah, and and motorhomes we have a little forgiveness
for and I think revcons even dated backinto the 70s, but we have Um, like at our
san dimas rally, we have a whole sectionof the gmc rvs those big tandem axle gmcs
um, and they're mid 70s and Yeah, theythey continue to build some pretty cool.
(18:08):
Uh, rvs even a little later intothe 70s and 80s that still kind
of have a Classic vibe to him.
And the next issue of the magazine,we have a 72 Barth, which is a
neat brick RV that a guy redid.
Yeah, we love, I mean, we'reVintage Camper Trailers is the
name, but we like the RVs andthe vans and stuff just as much.
Stuart Doing Stuff (18:28):
There's a trend growing on Airbnb for unique, uh,
kind of things, and I've heard ofpeople buying these vintage trailers
and putting them just on their land.
Maybe they have two or three or fiveor whatever acres, and they just
put these trailers on the land andthey're renting them out overnight
for hundreds of dollars a night.
(18:50):
Are you familiar with any of those?
Vintage Camper Trailers (18:52):
Uh have stayed in several of them.
Um just gave away packages at our eventlast weekend for uh, free two night
stays for a couple of them procuretrailers for some of them and um, Yeah,
it's a it's a huge deal people love it.
I love it when we travel we try tofind one and I've stayed in them around
(19:15):
the country and we've seen uh, weddingvenues With six or eight trailers out
there that the bridal party can stay in.
And then they have theweddings on their grounds.
There's campgrounds that offer multiplevintage trailers for overnight stays.
Yeah.
People, you know, people likethat connection with the old
(19:36):
stuff and it is great eye candy.
I mean, I'm sure a lot of people thatsubscribe to our magazine have no
intention of owning a vintage trailer perse, but, but, but they're fun to look at.
Stuart Doing Stuff (19:45):
You have a lot of followers on social media, mostly
because of the images, and it isreally just cool to scroll through
all of these and look at Things thatI've never seen in real life, but just
go, wow, those are, are so amazing.
What are your social handles?
If people wanted to goand check those out?
Vintage Camper Trailers (20:01):
It's all vintage camper trailers.
So vintage camper trailers.
com at vintage camper trailerson Instagram and Facebook.
And then we have groups andthings under the same name.
So yeah, we're pretty easy to find.
Everything's accessiblethrough the main website.
Of course.
Stuart Doing StuffS (20:16):
I'm just looking at some of these.
What are your personal favorites?
Vintage Camper Trailers (20:19):
I, I would have to say that, uh,
number one, I like unique stuff.
We've really, we justbecame empty nesters.
So, we've kind of reduced our bigcollection down to something more
manageable so we can travel more.
Our main trailer...
is a 1955 Spartan and I'm really a Spartanguy, probably I would say at heart.
(20:40):
And then we've got the original trailerwe ever bought, which was a 1962 DeVille.
We bought a Shasta from the originalfamily that we've stayed in contact with.
For 15 years since we bought it.
And so some of those pieceswe'll never get rid of.
We've got a vagabond, a 48 vagabondthat we'll never get rid of.
And, and then I have a handful ofwhat I think are just neat little
(21:03):
unique, really rare tent type trailers.
So they're easy to store.
They're small, they're goodfor displays and stuff.
And, and, and they're very unique, butI didn't say the short answer to the
question is I'm kind of a Spartan guy.
I like the Spartan trailers.
Stuart Doing Stuff (21:19):
So on these rallies, you talk about like, I love looking at
the photos, but like you said earlier,you got to see these things in person.
So if I want to come to these rallies,but I don't want to camp or I I've
got other things, can I, do youjust, do you do day passes or is
there a fee or how does that work?
Vintage Camper Trailers (21:33):
Our, our rallies are like most, and I would
check with every rally becausethere could be variations, but
typically our drill is on Saturday.
From 10 a.
m.
until 2 p.
m.
You can walk in and look around likeyou were at a car show and most of the
owners will certainly engage with you andanswer questions and many, many will let
(21:54):
you into their trailers to look around.
There's always trailersfor sale to at rallies.
And if you are looking to possiblyget into the hobby, I would strongly
recommend that you walk into a fewtrailers and get a sense of the space.
Some have taller roofs, some haverounded walls, some have straight walls.
(22:14):
I would try to get a sense for thespace and what you really want.
Don't just go buy something because it'sthe first thing you see on Craigslist
and, and you gotta have it because itmight not be the best trailer for you.
If you go walk in and out of afew and get a sense for the space.
I think you're better off.
So yeah, at our rallies and mostrallies, I would say there is some open
(22:37):
house period where you can just comein and look around and talk to people.
Stuart Doing Stuff (22:40):
You know, I think that's the same advice
that we give to people lookingto buy a new trailer nowadays.
You have to go and see them or rentone or, or go to one of these little
lots where you can stay in a vintageone overnight and make your pros and
cons list, you know, cause no one.
Camps and RVs the same way and so you gotto find something that meets your needs
Vintage Camper Trailers (23:03):
I would also add just as an aside if you are gonna buy
something free isn't necessarily here Bet,you know spend as much as you can afford
to spend to get something that's moredecent and campable because Sometimes free
is free for a reason, and unless you justget real lucky, you're better off spending
(23:24):
a little more money to get somethingthat's usable that you can kind of finish.
Unless you've got great skills andyou're just gonna do a real awesome
restoration, they can be a lot of work.
I would think that it's the sameamount of work possibly as a, uh,
as restoring an old car, but youdon't have the motor, which is a huge
expense in restoring classic cars.
Yeah, and that's why I restore trailers.
(23:48):
I love hot rods.
I have some, but they costme a fortune because I don't
like doing mechanical work.
I muddle through some of it, butmost of it I have to pay for.
And so I got, that's part of why Igot into doing trailers, but if you're
at all handy and can screw and gluestuff together, honestly, you can
figure out how to fix the trailer.
They're not that complicated.
(24:09):
So, um, you take them apart,you see how they're built.
Chances are you're going to build itbetter than it was ever built originally.
Just putting it back together becausethey really were thrown together quickly.
It's amazing.
They last as long as they did.
Stuart Doing Stuff (24:23):
And especially the older ones, they don't have the kind of
tech that the new RVs and the new trailershave out there with the touchscreens
and all the, and all that wiring tech.
Vintage Camper Trailers (24:34):
At best you might have an extension cord that turns
on a light and powers two plugs, youknow, I mean there is no tech For people
again wanting to try and take a lookat your awesome photos following on
social or subscribe to your magazineTell people one more time how people
can get in touch with you Vintagecamper trailers.com or Instagram and
Facebook at vintage camper trailers.
Stuart Doing Stuff (24:56):
Well, I'm gonna try and make it a point to get out
to one of your rallies sometimes goodif I'm in the area, because it just
sounds like a whole bunch of fun.
Real, and, and, and healthy, safe,family friendly, fun too, you know?
Yeah.
Where you can kind of take a look backand, and be a little nostalgic on stuff.
Vintage Camper Trailers (25:11):
And there's a lot of characters there that you can talk to.
So we have some prettyeclectic folks in our, in our.
Crowd
Stuart Doing Stuff (25:18):
that's awesome all right paul thank you so much for joining
us today on the rv dreaming podcast i'mgoing to go and make sure i subscribe to
your instagram i make sure everyone elsedoes that too all right super thank you
thanks for listening to the rv dreamingpodcast if you like what you heard and you
got something out of this episode pleasetake a moment and leave us a review on
apple podcast or spotify it really helpsus get more exposure and it helps you More
(25:40):
people just like you thrive on the road.
So until next time, enjoy yourtravels, make them safe, make
them fun, and make them memorable.
This is RV Dreaming.
Start here.
Go anywhere.
We'll see you in the next episode.
Thanks for listening tothe RV Dreaming podcast.
See the action on Instagram.
Steward doing stuff.
Hear about it on the podcast.
Be sure to subscribe.
We'll see you in the next episode.
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