September 10, 2024 • 45 mins
Have you gotten stuck in the belief that HSPs are fragile? In this episode, I talk with Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali, LMFT about celebrating your sensitivity and:
• Teaching people how to treat you and communicating that your needs are different
• Setting firm, but kind boundaries and how to manage pushback
• Finding fulfilling ways to socialize without the overwhelm or social pressure to show up like everyone else
• Rewriting the messages that say HSPs are weird, too sensitive, shy, or weak
• It’s possible for highly sensitive people to be ambitious, resilient, and strong
Ibinye is a licensed marriage and family therapist for couples and women with anxiety and insomnia. As a coach, she helps highly sensitive women set clear, kind boundaries, so they can put their needs at the forefront of their lives, stand up for themselves and rock social situations. When she's not working with HSPs she loves trying out new foods and taking naps.
Keep in touch with Ibinye:
• Website: http://www.thezinniapractice.com
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thezinniapractice
• Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thezinniapractice
Resources Mentioned:
• Individual Coaching for Highly Sensitive Women: https://calendly.com/ibi-k7ob/consult
• HSP Self-Test: https://hsperson.com/test/highly-sensitive-test
Thank you to Cozy Earth for sponsoring this episode.
Cozy Earth offers super soft and sustainably sourced bedding and loungewear. Use discount code SENSITIVE at checkout for up to 40% off. https://cozyearth.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali (00:00):
We tend to run more passive, which is
you matter, but I don't matter.
No, we both should matter.
So, which is why I'm all aboutkind boundaries, Because
everyone matters.
I can still be firm with youand say what I need and express
my hurts, while being kind toyou at the same time.
April Snow (00:26):
Welcome to Sensitive Stories, the podcast for the
people who live with hearts andeyes wide open.
I'm your host, psychotherapistand author, april Snow.
I invite you to join me as Ideep dive into rich
conversations with fellow highlysensitive people that will
inspire you to live a morefulfilling life as an HSP
(00:48):
without all the overwhelm.
In this episode, I talk withEbene Ashibodu Anyali about
accepting your sensitivity,teaching others what your needs
are, setting firm but kindboundaries and finding
fulfilling ways to socialize onyour own terms.
(01:08):
Ibinye, or Ibi for short, is alicensed marriage and family
therapist for couples and womenwith anxiety and insomnia.
As a coach, she helps highlysensitive women set clear, kind
boundaries so they can put theirneeds at the forefront of their
lives, stand up for themselvesand rock social situations.
When she's not working withHSPs, she loves trying out new
(01:31):
foods and taking naps.
For more HSP resources and tosee behind the scenes video from
the podcast, join me onInstagram, tiktok or YouTube at
Sensitive Strengths, or sign upfor my email list or YouTube at
Sensitive Strengths or sign upfor my email list.
Links are in the show notes andat sensitivestoriescom.
And just a reminder that thisepisode is for educational
(01:52):
purposes only and is notintended as a substitute for
treatment with a mental healthor medical professional.
Let's dive in Ibi.
(02:19):
Can you start off by telling usyour HSP discovery story, how
and when you realized thatyou're a highly sensitive person
?
Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali (02:27):
Oh my goodness, I literally remember
the day Okay.
So all of my life I've alwaysfelt like I didn't fit in
anywhere.
I felt like I was weird.
Well, I was literally calledweird by all the kids in school
all the time.
So I was just like I'm weird.
I was told I was too sensitive,I cried too much, I was a
crybaby, a drama queen, all thenames.
(02:48):
So I was just like, okay, allright.
And then one day I was at work.
I was an adult.
By then I was an adult and Iwas also a therapist.
By this time I had never heardabout high sensitivity, even as
a therapist.
This is after grad school, bythe way, even as a therapist
this is after grad school, bythe way.
And I'm at work, just sittingdown minding my business, and I
(03:08):
get a text from a friend of mineand she says I think this is us
and I'm like what, what is shetalking about?
And it says like highlysensitive person test.
And I remember my firstinstinct was is she insulting me
?
I thought she was my friendbecause all my life I've been
called too sensitive and I'mlike I don't understand what
(03:31):
this is coming from.
Is this an insult?
So I click on the link and it'sthe highly sensitive person
self-test and I'm answering yesand yes and yes, and I'm like,
oh my gosh, this explains myentire life.
And in that moment, I felt likemy world went from black and
(03:54):
white to color.
I was like, yes, this is us,this is exactly us, yes, so I
will never forget that moment.
And from then on, research, andI'm reading all the books, I'm
on blogs, I'm noticing like someof my loved ones are highly
sensitive.
We're having conversations, I'msending the test to them and
(04:17):
I'm like, oh, she was not indeedinsulting me, because we're
both highly sensitive.
I get it now.
April Snow (04:22):
Oh, what an amazing moment.
And it makes sense thatinitially you thought this is an
insult, because that's what youheard your whole life.
Right, sensitive is often aderogatory term, it's used as a
negative, but when you step backit's like, oh, she was in this
with you, yes, oh, what abeautiful moment once you could
step into it and it sounds likeyou just dove right in.
(04:44):
There was no resistance.
Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali (04:45):
Oh yeah, oh no, not at all, Not at all.
I was like, if there is a thingthat can describe how I have
felt my entire life, I wouldlove to know more and I think
because it wasn't just me she'sone of my dearest friends and
she's also highly sensitive andwe've walked kind of like
parallel paths, so it just madesense.
(05:05):
I was like let's learn thistogether.
And it was just.
It was so amazing.
April Snow (05:10):
Isn't that beautiful that immediately you had a
friend appear in that, a fellowHSP because we're often drawn to
each other even if we don'treally know what the trait is
right, so you just sense it insomeone.
Oh, this is another kind ofdeep thinker, feeler.
Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali (05:25):
Yes, yeah , amazing, and it makes sense
why she's one of my dearestfriends, because we just
connected the moment we met yes,there's something about her.
April Snow (05:34):
You knew this is my person.
Yes, that's beautiful.
So about how many years has itbeen now since that happened?
Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali (05:41):
if you could guess I would say 10 years
, probably about a decade.
April Snow (05:47):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah and you mentioned something
important there, which is evenand I had the same experience.
Well, I had.
I found out in grad school, butnot through my curriculum, but
through a friend just happenedto say have you read this book,
dr aaron's highly sensitiveperson?
Yeah, but we don't learn it inschool, even as therapists.
Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali (06:05):
No, no, not at all, not at all.
April Snow (06:07):
That's how unknown it is, unfortunately.
Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali (06:12):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely yeah.
And my dear friend was atherapist as well.
We went to grad school together.
She had never learned about iteither.
April Snow (06:21):
Right, right, it's just not in the curriculum.
I mean, we're seeing more andmore research, but it still
hasn't made its way intotherapist's office, doctor's
offices.
Yeah, yeah, hopefully thatchanges.
I hope so.
That's why we're having thisconversation.
Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali (06:37):
To be part of that.
April Snow (06:38):
Yeah, so in that last decade, how have you
transformed your relationshipand brought your sensitive needs
more to the forefront?
Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali (06:46):
Yeah, yeah.
The first thing that it helpedme do to understanding what
sensitivity was was number one.
It was self-acceptance, becauseall of my life I have felt like
people didn't accept me, but Iactually didn't realize that I
didn't accept my own self untilI started this journey of high
(07:06):
sensitivity.
So the first step I had to dowas you know what Ibi?
There's a name for it.
Now You're highly sensitive.
It's not going away, it's not abad thing.
You are not a mistake.
Because I thought maybe I'm amistake because I don't know, I
don't know what's wrong with me,right?
(07:31):
So that was my first step isyou're OK?
And then after that, I spent alot of alone time and I started
spending time in nature.
You know, before I found out Iwas highly sensitive.
I don't know why I never spenttime in nature.
It was just like cocooned in myown room.
I don't know why I was doingthat, which is like really awful
for high sensitivity.
So I started hiking, just kindof just spending time in nature
and with that, learning toreally just listen to my own
(07:51):
thoughts and my own needs, and Iwould just kind of almost talk
to myself like, okay, debriefmyself, debrief the day.
And then that kind of gave methe energy to start to set
boundaries with other people,because I realized if you are
one of the 30% or 20%, that'shighly sensitive.
The other 60 to 70% or 80 towhatever the percentage is, they
(08:16):
don't get you.
And so if you are to live withthem, you kind of have to do a
little bit of education, right?
And so I started with thepeople around me like I found
out this thing and I would sendeverybody the test and they'd be
like, yeah, this is you, thisis definitely you.
(08:36):
And they were like, oh, and Ilet them know, stop calling me
too sensitive, I'm the rightamount of sensitive, okay, yeah,
like I just I just went rightin.
Stop saying that I'm a dramaqueen.
I am not dramatic.
These are my emotions.
They are big, there are many.
They are bountiful.
My emotions mean something, soyou are going to stop this.
(09:00):
And they were like, oh, okay,like, okay, and really I just
started to also slow myself down.
I'm super high, achieving.
I grew up in like one of themost competitive Nigerians.
Like, let me just say it, I'mNigerian and we are just like,
look here, from the moment youwere born, you will accomplish A
(09:21):
, b, c, d, e, f G.
Like, from the moment you areborn, you will accomplish A, b,
c, d, e, f G.
Like that's just it, right.
And I'm like how do Iaccomplish things and honor my
needs at the same time?
And I've learned how to likestructure my day, not caring
what people think, like that.
That part was hard, cause I alsoI grew up in a collectivist
culture where you are the people, you are your family.
(09:44):
Whatever I, you are your family.
Whatever I do reflects upon myfamily, and I'm learning to just
and I say learning because Ihaven't arrived.
I'm still growing every day,learning to honor my needs for
slowness, for stillness,learning to set boundaries, to
say this is enough.
I'm going home now.
I love you, but I'm going homenow.
(10:04):
Can you turn the TV down alittle bit, because it's
sounding like screams in my ears.
And that's what I've been doingis just because I'm no longer
ashamed of who I am, I'm able tolike, step forward and just be
like this is me, guys, and I'mnot changing, and you all are
going to have to adapt a littlebit, same way I've been adapting
(10:26):
in this very big, loud world.
April Snow (10:29):
Exactly, we all need to adapt and do our part.
Yes, and what you said is soimportant.
I used to think, oh, this isthe downtime, or boundaries, or
the foundation.
It really is self-acceptance.
You can't do anything elseunless we believe our trait is
real and, like you said, it'snot going anywhere.
Your emotions are valid and Ilove the ability to stand up for
(10:53):
yourself in that, because it'strue, you are you and there's
nothing wrong with that.
And then we all need to do ourpart in kind of softening for
others making room for othersRight.
Yeah, absolutely.
How did people receive the newyou who's coming forward with
(11:13):
your sensitivity proudly?
I'm just curious how peopleresponded to that so.
Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali (11:19):
I started with the people that I knew
were safe.
Yes, I started there with thepeople that I knew were safe.
Yes, I started there.
People who I know are naturalacceptors, people who I know are
listeners, who are moreempathetic, understand.
I started like with the safestpeople and gave them some
material to read and they werelike oh, I get it.
(11:41):
Now it makes sense why you'vebeen this way all of your life.
And then I let them know, asI'm learning, I'm going to start
teaching you.
And they were like okay, okay,or like certain things they'd
say to me that were funny before, like they thought was funny,
and I'm like we don't say thatanymore.
They're like okay, okay, yeah,that's right, we don't do that
(12:02):
anymore.
Right, and they were accepting.
And it's so funny because overthe years they would almost like
refer people to me.
They're like I think she'shighly sensitive, can you tell
her more?
April Snow (12:18):
The HSP whisperer yes.
Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali (12:22):
I'm the flag bearer for HSPs, I guess,
so it was good.
And then, for those who weren'tso accepting, or for those who
were like this is not a thing, Iset really hard boundaries.
I'm like, well, I can only nowtake you in doses because I'm
telling you that this is a thing, this is what I need, even if
(12:42):
you don't agree that this is athing.
I'm just telling you like thisis what I need to have a better,
more civil relationship withyou.
And you're rejecting that, andso I'm going to have to protect
my peace, like we can only likebe together for like a
millisecond before like implode,and so I can't do that.
I don't want to implode.
April Snow (13:02):
Absolutely Right.
Your needs don't change justbecause they don't agree.
Right, exactly.
So you talk a lot about settingkind but firm boundaries.
Yes, can you say more aboutthat?
So someone is ignoring yourneeds or not recognizing your
sensitivity, or even just tryingto turn your no into a yes,
because that happens a lot.
Yes, how can we be firm butkind?
Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali (13:24):
when we're setting a limit.
Yes, I'm a big, big, big fan ofkindness, right.
I'm a big, like it doesn'treally matter.
There's just so much hostilityin the world.
I'm like let's bring thekindness back, okay.
So first of all, just take abreath, because sometimes when
someone is trying to overstep aboundary, we can get very
(13:45):
frazzled.
There's so many emotions itfeels like a hurricane, at least
for me.
Just take a breath, breath,center yourself, ask yourself
what is it that I'm experiencingin this moment and why am I
experiencing this in this moment?
So I'm clarifying what's goingon for myself first, before I
(14:05):
communicate that with the otherperson.
And then, when you feel likeyou're able to communicate, let
the person know like okay, Iwould like to address something
with you, right, and then youtell them when you said X Y Z,
or when this happened, I felt XY Z, yeah, and here's what I
(14:28):
need from you, because sometimeswe stop at this is how I feel,
this is what you did, but wedon't tell them what you're
needing, and so they don'talways know what you need.
And then after that, giveyourself a pat on the back,
because it's very, verydifficult to set a boundary,
especially because a lot of usHSPs have been used to just
(14:50):
listening to what everybody says, not really honoring our needs
so we can easily default to that.
So when you start to stand upfor yourself, it feels
uncomfortable.
It actually feels very unkindfor some people to set a kind
boundary.
April Snow (15:06):
So a kind boundary can also feel unkind.
Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali (15:09):
Yes, it can feel unkind because you're
essentially telling the personyou can't get your way.
So that could feel unkind,right, right, even if the person
is saying something mean to youbecause that has been what
you've been used to.
They say you're too sensitive,you're a drama queen, blah, blah
, blah.
And then you kind of giggle andyou laugh and you just go along
with it.
So the moment you say you knowthat actually hurt my feelings
(15:31):
and what I need from you is torefrain from that type of
language with me.
And then you see the look ontheir face like what Did she
just set a boundary?
April Snow (15:45):
That's what feels unkind, Right?
It's a shock to them becausethey're so used to you saying
yes all the time, justcompletely erasing yourself.
Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali (15:49):
Yes.
April Snow (15:49):
And your needs.
Yeah, yes, absolutely.
Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali (15:52):
And the last piece I would say is
sometimes when you set aboundary, even when you do it
kindly, you might get pushedback.
April Snow (16:02):
It's not a guarantee .
Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali (16:04):
It's not a guarantee that they'll be like
oh my goodness, I apologize, Iknow that hurt your feelings.
Sometimes they'll say I wasjust kidding, like you never
liked to take jokes, and blah,blah, blah.
We still keep our feet firmlyplanted on the floor and we say
that hurt my feelings, I don'tcondone that language Like that.
I don't care what their theirresponse is.
That hurt me.
We don't condone that language.
I don't care what theirresponse is.
(16:24):
That hurt me.
We don't allow people tocontinue to hurt us because we
think it's unkind to set aboundary.
April Snow (16:31):
Right, you said this message a few different ways.
But teaching people how totreat us, yes, and letting
people know what's happeninginside, because they don't know,
they don't know and we get intothese patterns.
The hsp tend to be the giver,the self-sacrificer, but we
don't have.
We can turn that around, yes,but it's going to be
(16:52):
uncomfortable at first with alot of people and I appreciate
it.
You said earlier, you know,start with the safe people yes
to get practice?
Yes, and then we can move on tothings that are maybe more
escalated.
But it just because it feelsmessy or unkind or you have to
push back a little bit, doesn'tmean it's wrong.
It's such a good reminder Tryit again.
(17:14):
Yes.
Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali (17:15):
Yes, yeah .
April Snow (17:16):
You seem like you've .
I'm feeling inspired by justhow solid you are in this.
I think we really need to hearthat you can be sensitive and
you can also be firm.
Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali (17:26):
Yes, absolutely.
April Snow (17:27):
Yeah.
Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali (17:28):
Yeah yeah , sensitivity is not the same as
fragility.
Yes, Thank you, cause I feellike we, we think we are like
eggs, and then, if we set aboundary, we'll get stepped on
and then that's it Humpty,dumpty, a million pieces.
And then we set a boundary,we'll get stepped on, and then
that's it Humpty, dumpty, amillion pieces, and then we
can't put them together again.
It's like no, no, no, like youcan still set firm boundaries,
(17:48):
you can still help peopleunderstand you better, you can
have safe relationships and besensitive.
At the same time, you can sayto someone this hurts me, please
don't do it again.
That's very respectful, that'svery kind and it's still firm,
all at the same time.
We could.
We could it's, it's not eitheror it's and yes, it's both end,
(18:11):
exactly.
April Snow (18:12):
And hsp, we don't think about this, but somebody's
talking about with clients alot is how resilient we actually
are, because just think abouthow much more you're feeling and
sensing and noticing, and yetwe're still functioning at the
same level as everyone else,even with that what did you call
it?
A tornado happening.
Yes, yes, yes, exactly.
So, taking time to reallyacknowledge that resilience,
(18:35):
that strength, and I appreciateearlier you said you know, with
your being a Nigerian, you'revery ambitious, yes, and that
didn't seem.
That seemed like a welcomeian.
You're very ambitious, yes, andthat didn't seem.
That seemed like a welcome partof you.
It didn't seem like a fight.
I don't know if that's true ornot.
Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali (18:48):
No, that's, that's just, that's just
ingrained.
Is you will accomplish allthese things?
You know, the sensitive part isthe part that was like is she
crying?
Are those tears?
No, no, no, no.
We don't do that.
That's uncomfortable.
Don't wipe your eyes.
We don't do that Right.
April Snow (19:02):
But you can be both, and yes, and that too.
You can be strong, you can beambitious, you can be boundaried
oh yeah, absolutely.
And sensitive, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
And I, just to come back youwere saying you were kind of
laying out this framework, youalways coming back to putting
your feet on the ground.
Yes, that's such a good startin any scenario.
(19:25):
Yes, take a moment, take abreath, check in with yourself,
remind yourself why you needthis boundary.
Yes absolutely yes, and thenrepeat as often as possible and
if that doesn't work, removeyourself, Limit time, that's it.
I think that's another reminder.
I think we feel like we have tojust bear it with people, and
(19:53):
that's not true.
No, no, absolutely Absolutelyyeah.
If we're feeling unkind, how,or how do you personally work
with that?
Or work with clients whenthey're feeling that guilt, even
though they've been kind, butit doesn't feel that way, or the
person doesn't like what theyhave to say?
How can we manage that?
Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali (20:04):
Yeah, yeah.
A common statement I say to myclients is are you throwing
yourself in the fire to keepothers warm?
And that's a thing I say likethat's the benchmark.
So run through the statement.
You said please.
You said say to the need.
You didn't attack theircharacter.
There was no blaming, it washonest.
(20:30):
You set the boundary clearly.
You said what you needed.
What part of that is actuallynot feels unkind, but what?
April Snow (20:33):
part of that is unkind.
Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali (20:34):
And then they're like actually no, that
was actually a very polite wayto set a boundary, Okay.
So sometimes we have to removeand I know it's difficult
because, as highly sensitivepeople, were big feelers.
So sometimes I'm like, let's goback to the thinking brain.
It was not indeed unkind, Likethe actual words that came out
of your mouth were very kind.
They were very assertive andreminding yourself that
(20:56):
assertiveness means I matter andyou matter, Cause we're we tend
to run more passive, which isyou matter but I don't matter.
No, we both should matter.
So, which is why I'm all aboutkind boundaries, because
everyone matters.
I can still be firm with youand say what I need and express
my hurts while being kind to youat the same time.
(21:18):
So it's just I say sit in it.
Sit in the feeling of oh, mygosh, this is just like.
Oh, I'm squirming right now.
Sit in it, take a deep breath,remind yourself okay, I've run
through the whole thing.
That was not indeed unkind.
This feeling that I'm feelingon the inside is because it's
something new that I'm not usedto.
With time and with practice,you'll feel settled and it'll go
(21:43):
away.
So I don't run away.
I don't teach people to runaway from emotions.
I say feel the feeling.
Then go up to your rationalmind and ask yourself is what
I'm feeling actually?
What's going on, Right, Right?
And then just sit there,breathe, It'll go away, and then
we move on.
And then the next time theyoverstep your boundary, you set
(22:04):
the boundary again.
Sometimes we think that if Iset a boundary once, the
person's going to get it Evensafe.
People sometimes default totheir old behaviors, right, so
we just have to remember when wetalked about this, remind them
again.
They apologize, All right, andthen we keep it moving.
Boundary setting is a lifelongendeavor.
It's not just a one and done.
April Snow (22:25):
That's right, it's ongoing.
Yes, I appreciate that reminderjust to keep practicing and we
don't need to get lost in thefeeling of recognize it,
acknowledge it, feel it.
But then remind yourself, rightright, I wasn't unkind here, I
was completely reasonable andreconnecting to that the reason
(22:49):
why you set the boundary in thefirst place, and then
remembering oh right, this wasthe right thing to do yes
absolutely, yeah, yeah, yeah,I'm no longer throwing myself in
the fire to keep people warm.
Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali (23:01):
Like we can all be warm and and we don't
all have to be in the fire.
Like no one has to be in thefire.
April Snow (23:06):
That's right.
No one has to be sacrificed.
No, no, we can all find a spacearound the fire.
We don't have to be in it.
Exactly Such a good reminder.
So we talked about settingboundaries.
I want to expand that out tothe social experience of HSPs.
This I want to expand that outto the social experience of HSPs
.
This is another area you talkabout quite a lot and I love how
you talk about it can beenjoyable, because you mentioned
(23:27):
earlier, there was a time whereyou kind of stayed in your
little bubble.
Yes, yes.
Just to go back there.
I'm curious what changed foryou, knowing that you're
sensitive?
How did that help you shift outof the bubble?
Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali (23:39):
Yeah.
So when I was a child, I wasoften told that I was shy, yes,
and so I took that on.
I'm like I must be shy becausewhen I'm in social spaces I feel
like I'm really squirmy, I'mvery uncomfortable.
You would find me likesomewhere in a corner.
You wouldn't even notice me,like I was the child who like
(24:00):
where is she?
Is she here?
Oh yeah, there, she is, thatlittle one somewhere there.
That was always me, and Iremember saying this to my mom.
Once I said to her actually Isaid it to her on multiple
occasions I said I would love tojust camouflage myself in the
wall.
She's like what does that mean?
But that was how I felt as achild, as a teenager, like I
(24:21):
just want to be invisible,because the feelings were too
much.
So once I found out that I washighly sensitive and I found out
that you could actually have anenjoyable social life, I was
like I want to practice thisbecause I genuinely like people,
like I genuinely enjoy people.
I don't want to be in a roomwith a hundred thousand people
(24:42):
at the same time.
Like that's too much for me.
But I noticed like when I'mtalking to people one-on-one or
in small groups, when we'rehaving deep conversations, when
we're really kind to each other,I'm really loving it.
So I really had to unpack.
When have I enjoyed talking topeople?
And that's when I started tolike okay with this, with this,
with this, okay cool.
(25:03):
What types of people do I enjoybeing around?
Okay, generally, they're kindpeople, they're good listeners,
they're respectful Okay, cool.
So it's the really rowdy, toxicones that you don't like.
Okay, now, I understand.
I love you, really discerned itfor yourself.
Oh yeah, absolutely.
I was like okay, cool, let'spractice this.
(25:23):
And I started to seek people outjust one-on-one, like let's go
out to coffee, let's go out totea, Can I visit you in your
home?
Like one-on-one situations,picking the place like a more
quiet place that's not toooverstimulating.
And I realized I'm like Ireally do have a great
personality.
I mean, I thought I was just abump on the log.
(25:45):
I really thought that's what Iwas.
I really did, because I spentso much time in overwhelm,
discomfort, not accepting myself, that I was just silent in
public.
Like there are people who arelike I've never heard you speak
and I'm like that is wild,because the people who know me
are like Ibi doesn't stoptalking you're like Ibi doesn't
(26:16):
stop talking, but you gotlabeled shy, which a lot of hsps
do.
April Snow (26:18):
People misunderstand checking things out or being
overwhelmed, the shyness yes,you got put in this box.
I'm shy, and then you're, ofcourse, being overstimulated.
You do you just kind of want tofade into the background?
Yes, because it's intense, andespecially if you don't know
what's happening for you, it'sconfusing as a kid.
So socializing in general justgoes in the bucket of not good.
Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali (26:38):
Oh no, we don't do this.
April Snow (26:40):
We don't do this, we don't do it no no, we don't do
this.
No, wow, what a loss.
We sit in our room alone.
Yeah, yeah, that's it.
And what a loss for you assomeone who's social and loves
connection.
Yes yes, absolutely, yeah, yeahyeah, yeah.
Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali (26:57):
No, that was tough because I feel like I
lost like a big span of time,you know, just sitting in my
room reading books and listeningto music, like that's all I did
.
I was like because and then Iwas also labeled, on top of that
as I got older unfriendly.
There was the narrative I beunfriendly and I be doesn't like
people.
So I was like, oh okay, I'm shy, I'm unfriendly and I don't
(27:19):
like people Perfect.
So I would literally say I'mshy, I'm unfriendly and I don't
like people and I reallybelieved it.
Oh, of course it was my identity.
So I would just go out, like mymom was like you're not sitting
in your room forever, come on,like let's go somewhere.
So I'd go out and I'd just belike in the corner, like can I
just sit in the car?
She's like in the car, it's hotout.
(27:40):
No, you can't do that, you know.
But once I started finding mypeople and I also realized that
I've always had this intuition,this thing about people.
I meet someone and it's eitherI love this person or danger.
Be careful, be very carefulabout this one.
(28:01):
And so now I don't forcerelationships.
I'm able to have a relationshipwith anyone.
But I pay attention to thatintuition.
Now I'm like that gut, shetalks and she's very loud.
And once I started listening toto that instinct, I'm like I do
love people, I enjoysocializing.
April Snow (28:21):
Now yes, the gut is so accurate and so there's so
many things here.
So you're realizing how youlike to socialize deep
one-to-one connections in quietspaces.
And then listening to your gutwho are those people you do not
want to bring into your innercircle?
Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali (28:42):
So important.
April Snow (28:44):
For you personally?
What does that instinct feel orsound like?
Do you have something thatcomes up regularly?
I know this is different foreveryone.
I'm just curious what it lookslike for you, for folks that
maybe are still figuring thatout.
Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali (28:57):
Yeah.
So for me, when I meet someonewho's safe, it just feels like
the wall goes down.
Yeah, the wall goes down andI'm like my ears perk up and I
want to ask them a millionquestions and I really want to
get to know them.
And when they ask me questions,I feel comfortable and safe
(29:17):
enough to actually answer andinvite them into my world.
But when I meet an unsafeperson, it really does feel like
my spidey senses are tinglingand I want to run Like.
It literally feels like I run,and I've never been wrong.
I've never.
And I'll go back to my childhoodand I said that to my mom and
(29:39):
she was like you know what, whenyou were a child, I used you as
the yardstick to figure out whoI should be around and I was
like what does that mean?
She says if you let the personhold your hand or if you sat
next to the person or you wantedto be in a room with the person
, they were a good person.
But if you would like look atthe person and, kind of like, be
(30:00):
standoffish, something wouldhappen in the future and I'd be
like, yeah, I saw this coming.
So I'm like you knew this thiswhole time and you never told me
Right.
So apparently I've always hadthat instinct and I'm telling
you, it's never been wrong.
April Snow (30:19):
It's amazing, isn't it the track record, if you can
listen to it.
And it's true, it's very loudor clear.
Yes, it's either a clear leanin or run away.
Yes, absolutely, and it's just.
Can we listen to that?
Can we trust it?
Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali (30:36):
Yeah, I know a lot of people do.
April Snow (30:37):
We should, because it's so accurate.
Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali (30:40):
Yes, it is, it absolutely is.
April Snow (30:42):
Oh, I love that your mom saw that she didn't
probably know why that washappening, because the language
didn't exist.
Yeah, when we were, both of uswere growing up, but no, it
didn't.
She noticed something in youyeah yeah, absolutely,
absolutely, yeah, yeah.
I'm curious are there otherchallenges that pop up when hsps
(31:02):
are socializing that we want toname today?
Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali (31:05):
yeah, Sometimes it's the
overstimulation you know it'sloud people everywhere and and
for some HSPs you feel like youare experiencing the emotions of
other people.
Yes, at least that's the casefor me.
It's like if you're sad, I can.
Like I almost feel like I needto cry when I'm I don't even
(31:26):
have to know you.
Like I was at the supermarketone day.
There was a lady sitting.
I think it was having coffeewith someone I don't know.
There was a lady from acrossthe way and I could not focus on
my conversation because I wasjust like something's going on
with that lady over there and Ifelt the overwhelming need to
cry.
I didn't cry, but I was like Ineed to run out of here because
something's going on with thatlady.
I don't even know her.
(31:47):
So you have all these people andyou're tapping into their
emotions.
That feels very loud.
There's also the element of theunknown.
We tend to not like surprises,so I'm not the one to plan like
a surprise party.
Don't, don't plan a surpriseparty for me.
I don't want to do that.
Don't do that to me Like that'sawful, that's a horrible
birthday for me.
April Snow (32:06):
No, thank you.
Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali (32:07):
No, ask questions, you know it's okay to
ask.
So if you're invited to a space, it's okay to ask, like where's
it going to be?
Who's going to be there?
What's expected of me?
I tell people go online andjust look, look at pictures of
the place, you know, read themenu of the restaurant, so you
know what to expect If you don'twant to go out with a bunch of
(32:29):
complete strangers.
You don't have to go out with abunch of complete strangers.
You know you can take a buddywith you like a safe buddy.
Or when you get there, use thatspidey sense.
When you meet someone thatyou're like, okay, I feel
comfortable, that could be yourbuddy for the night.
You know, chat with them.
There's this difficulty inhaving just surface level
conversations, right, and that'swhy a lot of us don't like
(32:52):
going to you know socialsituations, because then they
talk about, I don't know, theweather or whatever.
I don't even know, but whateverthings that we don't care about
, right.
You don't have to have shallowconversations all the time, you
know, but remember like mostpeople have the need to talk
about the rain and the sunshineand all of that.
So it's like a give and take.
(33:13):
So let them, have a little bitof their conversation, and then
you can then talk about what doyou do for a living and what
drew you to this place, andthings that feel more meaningful
.
And if you're not feeling quitesuper, super safe, but it's an
environment that you have to bein.
Let's say, for example, youhave like a work related event
and you have to be there, it'sokay to be, just make the
(33:37):
conversation about them.
You know, and we tend to feelat ease when we're like drawing
things out of people, like it'sokay, like the conversation
doesn't have to be all about you.
If you're not comfortable yet,take breaks when you go out,
like I am a master of running tothe bathroom to take a few deep
breaths, like, look, I go there, I take a few deep breaths, I
(33:58):
just kind of center myself, Itake deep breaths.
I go there, I take a few deepbreaths, I just kind of center
myself, I take deeper.
I'm a big fan of ground.
I just like two feet on thefloor, I'm good, I'm safe, I'm
going to be okay, affirmingmyself and then go back in.
Staying in the perimeter of theroom is also a great tactic
that I use often.
I don't enjoy being in thecenter of the room.
(34:18):
I don't know what it is, butI'll just be like in a corner
somewhere talking to someone andalso it feels like you can
escape faster, you can run away.
You know, I like that onefinding people in the room that
feel safe.
I I'm saying that over and overagain because you don't have to
just stand there in the cornerall by yourself, you know, have
(34:42):
those conversations.
You can go outside to take abreak as well, you know, just
like.
Go outside, take a few deepbreaths, the fresh air is good
for you.
Then come back in and you don'thave to stay the entire time,
because I think we often willcompare ourselves to other
people.
We'll be like, well, they'respending four hours here, you
don't have to spend four hours.
Go there, do what you need todo and just nicely say, okay,
(35:04):
now I'll be going home, thankyou for your time, thank you for
inviting me and leave.
It's also okay If, like that,becomes your MO, like you're the
one who leaves an hour early,it's okay.
April Snow (35:18):
That's okay.
Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali (35:19):
Right, it's okay.
We get worried about beinglabeled Like Ibi's, the one who
always leaves early.
I am the one who always leavesearly.
Yeah, at least I showed up.
I showed up and you engaged.
I did, you know, I smiled, Iwas kind and nice to all the
people and then I left early andthat's it.
And I would say, lastly, let'srefrain from over explaining
(35:40):
when we're in social situations,because sometimes it's you feel
anxious.
There are people around you,you feel the eyeballs on you.
We don't like feeling likewe're being watched or we're
under pressure.
It's okay to just have yourlittle boilerplate statements.
Okay, I'm going to be leavingnow.
Thank you for inviting me.
Have a great rest of yourevening.
(36:02):
I have so many boiler platesthat I teach people and then you
leave, you know, and that's it,and you can go be in your
pajamas and watch TV.
April Snow (36:09):
Yes, Do it your own way, yes, right, and find the
way that is somewhat fulfilling,less overwhelming.
I love the idea of being on theperimeter, finding a person to
anchor to, to co-regulate with,you know, to make you feel a
little bit more comfortable andask those deeper questions.
You don't have to talk aboutthe weather, no, you don't, you
don't, and some people won'twant to go deeper.
(36:31):
Maybe that's not the person youtalk to, yeah.
Or, like I said, maybe youswitch the topic, yeah, finding
ways that work for you.
You switch the topic, findingways that work for you.
I am curious you talked aboutwhen you're younger.
You kind of stayed at the sides.
How does it feel different nowwhen you're also on the sides?
Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali (36:50):
It is different.
It's so much different.
So when I was younger, I stayedon the side so I can disappear,
like my goal was if I'm in thecorner, they won't see me, and
if they don't see me they won'tspeak to me.
That was the goal.
Don't talk to me, don'tapproach me.
No eye contact.
I'm looking at the floor.
Please, don't come near me,please.
(37:11):
I just thought the entire worldwas unsafe.
Now I'm staying in the cornerso I don't get overwhelmed, but
I'm making eye contact withpeople.
I'll sometimes run into themiddle, chit, chat a little bit,
go back to my corner, so Ialways have like an anchor spot
that I'm at.
I'll go in, do what I need todo laugh, chit, chat, giggle,
(37:32):
you know, do my little roundsand then I escape again.
So it's an in and out thing.
I'm not so focused about whatthey think about me.
April Snow (37:42):
Yes, that feels like the most important part.
Yes, it is Is allowing yourselfto show up in your own way and
to leave when you're ready.
Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali (37:52):
Yes.
April Snow (37:52):
And someone might say yes, Ibi is the one that
leaves an hour early every time.
I am, and you're like that's OK, that works for me.
I am.
Yeah're like that's okay thatworks for me.
Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali (38:01):
Yeah, what's wrong with that?
Yeah, there's nothing you know,yeah, yeah, yeah, it's fine,
it's really fine.
I've learned I am not the sameas anybody else.
I'm, I'm not.
I'm not the same as other HSPs.
I am a unique being and I'mperfectly fine with that.
And everyone does not have tounderstand me, as long as they
(38:23):
respect my boundaries.
So that's my thing, like I'mvery firm with my boundaries.
As long as you're respectful ofme, as long as you're kind to
me, you might be like that girlis so strange.
It's okay.
I could see how you could seeme as strange.
I get it.
April Snow (38:39):
It's fine, right, you're different than probably
the majority of other people.
You're coming in contact withMe too, and I appreciate that
reminder.
Every HSP is unique.
I think we think we have to bea certain way because we're in a
certain group, right?
Right, we don't have to be.
Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali (38:53):
No.
April Snow (38:55):
No, there are so many other intersections of
personality and culture andfamily and background and just
be yourself, yeah, be yourself,it's fine.
Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali (39:03):
Yeah, it's fine.
April Snow (39:04):
And I appreciate that.
Also that reminder that we canbe in the middle.
It doesn't have to be I'm supersocial or I'm super isolating.
Yeah, Find somewhere in themiddle that works for you.
That is absolutely the okayplace to be.
Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali (39:15):
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
And I do have to say thatsometimes we think that HSB
equals introversion.
No, they're extroverted HSBs.
They love to be right in themiddle of the room socializing,
dancing, woohoo.
They love the bright lights andit's fine.
But then the difference is thatwhat makes us all the same is
(39:36):
we do need that downtime torecharge after all of that.
So if you're HSB, don't thinkthat means that you're shy.
Some HSPs are shy, some are not.
Some are introverts, some arenot.
Some are extroverts, some arenot.
So you can be unique, evenwhile being in that category of
highly sensitive.
That's okay.
We don't judge, that's it.
April Snow (39:56):
Yeah, do you consider yourself to be
extroverted?
Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali (39:59):
Oh, no, no, Okay I am.
I say I am an introvert, likethe most introverted person on
the planet.
April Snow (40:08):
I love it.
I'm super introverted too, andit's lovely to see that even
introverted HSPs can also loveconnection.
Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali (40:17):
Yeah, absolutely Right.
April Snow (40:18):
Because there's this stereotype that we're hermits,
we're isolating.
We also need connection.
Yeah, we like people Just inour own way, on our own time.
Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali (40:31):
Yeah, I like that you said that in our
own way, in our own time.
That's, that's the key, rightthere.
April Snow (40:37):
It is right.
Find your own way through it.
Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali (40:39):
Yeah, yeah.
April Snow (40:40):
Yeah, yeah, if there was one message you could leave
us HSPs with?
Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali (40:46):
what would it be?
You can do whatever you want todo.
You just have to figure out thehow.
You can be loud, you can bequiet, you can be ambitious, you
can take one thing at a time,you can move slowly, you can
move quickly.
You just have to figure outwhat this HSP thing is for you
and just figure out how to movethrough it and you can
(41:06):
accomplish things however youwant.
April Snow (41:10):
Thank you so much.
Ibi this is an amazingconversation and so much to take
away and I'm just so happy youcame on the podcast.
Before we wrap up, yeah, thankyou.
Definitely will be linking yourInstagram which lots of great
resources there your website andthen your coaching page in the
show notes.
Could you tell folks a littlebit more about your coaching
(41:30):
that you offer for highlysensitive?
Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali (41:32):
women.
Yes, so I do something, what Ilike to call the triple T
framework.
Right, it's just thriving.
We learn how to thrive withyour emotions.
Most of us have just tons ofemotions and we're going through
that tornado all the time.
So I teach you how to move fromalways overwhelmed to a place
where you feel at peace withyourself, calm and secure.
(41:53):
So we talk about all of thatAgain, like I said to April, I
don't teach you how to run awayfrom the emotions.
We learn how to accept them,how to use them for our good.
And then I also teach you howto thrive while being triggered.
If you're HSV, I promise you youwill be triggered all the time
by your own internal body, bysomething in the environment, by
(42:16):
something somebody does orsomething somebody says.
So, teaching you what yourtriggers are, which is very
different for each person, andwhat do you do when these
triggers show up, so that youdon't be a hermit like I used to
be, because there's a big lifeout there for you to live and I
would love everyone to be ableto live fully.
And finally, how to thrive inrelationships, because HSPs are
(42:39):
relational people.
We might not want to be in aroom with a hundred thousand
people, but we can build reallystrong, safe, healthy
relationships.
I'm talking about workrelationships, home
relationships, all types ofrelationships.
How to set those boundaries,what to say when people you know
say things that just rub youthe wrong way, and just how to
(43:00):
feel secure when you're aroundpeople.
April Snow (43:03):
Beautiful, what a great resource.
I mean, we will be triggered,it's true, and we do want to be
in relationship.
It's just finding the path, yes, and what better than having
another HSP to guide us?
Yes, who gets it?
Yes, oh, so beautiful.
Thanks so much for joining meand Ibi for today's conversation
(43:35):
.
What I hope you remember isthat your sensitivity is real,
it's valid and it's absolutelyokay to show up.
However, you need to and formore support, schedule a
coaching session with Ibi tolearn how to prioritize your own
needs, speak up for yourself,set clear boundaries and become
much more comfortable in yourown skin.
You'll find that link in theshow notes.
(43:56):
If you enjoyed this episode,subscribe to the Sensitive
Stories podcast so you don'tmiss our upcoming conversations.
Reviews and ratings are alsohelpful and appreciated For
behind-the-scenes content andmore HSP resources.
You can sign up for my emaillist or follow Sensitive
Strengths on Instagram, tiktokand YouTube.
Check out the show notes orsensitivestoriescom for all the
(44:20):
resources from today's episode.
Thanks for listening.
We tend to run more passive, which is
you matter, but I don't matter.
No, we both should matter.
So, which is why I'm all aboutkind boundaries, Because
everyone matters.
I can still be firm with youand say what I need and express
my hurts, while being kind toyou at the same time.
April Snow (00:26):
Welcome to Sensitive Stories, the podcast for the
people who live with hearts andeyes wide open.
I'm your host, psychotherapistand author, april Snow.
I invite you to join me as Ideep dive into rich
conversations with fellow highlysensitive people that will
inspire you to live a morefulfilling life as an HSP
(00:48):
without all the overwhelm.
In this episode, I talk withEbene Ashibodu Anyali about
accepting your sensitivity,teaching others what your needs
are, setting firm but kindboundaries and finding
fulfilling ways to socialize onyour own terms.
(01:08):
Ibinye, or Ibi for short, is alicensed marriage and family
therapist for couples and womenwith anxiety and insomnia.
As a coach, she helps highlysensitive women set clear, kind
boundaries so they can put theirneeds at the forefront of their
lives, stand up for themselvesand rock social situations.
When she's not working withHSPs, she loves trying out new
(01:31):
foods and taking naps.
For more HSP resources and tosee behind the scenes video from
the podcast, join me onInstagram, tiktok or YouTube at
Sensitive Strengths, or sign upfor my email list or YouTube at
Sensitive Strengths or sign upfor my email list.
Links are in the show notes andat sensitivestoriescom.
And just a reminder that thisepisode is for educational
(01:52):
purposes only and is notintended as a substitute for
treatment with a mental healthor medical professional.
Let's dive in Ibi.
(02:19):
Can you start off by telling usyour HSP discovery story, how
and when you realized thatyou're a highly sensitive person
?
Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali (02:27):
Oh my goodness, I literally remember
the day Okay.
So all of my life I've alwaysfelt like I didn't fit in
anywhere.
I felt like I was weird.
Well, I was literally calledweird by all the kids in school
all the time.
So I was just like I'm weird.
I was told I was too sensitive,I cried too much, I was a
crybaby, a drama queen, all thenames.
(02:48):
So I was just like, okay, allright.
And then one day I was at work.
I was an adult.
By then I was an adult and Iwas also a therapist.
By this time I had never heardabout high sensitivity, even as
a therapist.
This is after grad school, bythe way, even as a therapist
this is after grad school, bythe way.
And I'm at work, just sittingdown minding my business, and I
(03:08):
get a text from a friend of mineand she says I think this is us
and I'm like what, what is shetalking about?
And it says like highlysensitive person test.
And I remember my firstinstinct was is she insulting me
?
I thought she was my friendbecause all my life I've been
called too sensitive and I'mlike I don't understand what
(03:31):
this is coming from.
Is this an insult?
So I click on the link and it'sthe highly sensitive person
self-test and I'm answering yesand yes and yes, and I'm like,
oh my gosh, this explains myentire life.
And in that moment, I felt likemy world went from black and
(03:54):
white to color.
I was like, yes, this is us,this is exactly us, yes, so I
will never forget that moment.
And from then on, research, andI'm reading all the books, I'm
on blogs, I'm noticing like someof my loved ones are highly
sensitive.
We're having conversations, I'msending the test to them and
(04:17):
I'm like, oh, she was not indeedinsulting me, because we're
both highly sensitive.
I get it now.
April Snow (04:22):
Oh, what an amazing moment.
And it makes sense thatinitially you thought this is an
insult, because that's what youheard your whole life.
Right, sensitive is often aderogatory term, it's used as a
negative, but when you step backit's like, oh, she was in this
with you, yes, oh, what abeautiful moment once you could
step into it and it sounds likeyou just dove right in.
(04:44):
There was no resistance.
Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali (04:45):
Oh yeah, oh no, not at all, Not at all.
I was like, if there is a thingthat can describe how I have
felt my entire life, I wouldlove to know more and I think
because it wasn't just me she'sone of my dearest friends and
she's also highly sensitive andwe've walked kind of like
parallel paths, so it just madesense.
(05:05):
I was like let's learn thistogether.
And it was just.
It was so amazing.
April Snow (05:10):
Isn't that beautiful that immediately you had a
friend appear in that, a fellowHSP because we're often drawn to
each other even if we don'treally know what the trait is
right, so you just sense it insomeone.
Oh, this is another kind ofdeep thinker, feeler.
Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali (05:25):
Yes, yeah , amazing, and it makes sense
why she's one of my dearestfriends, because we just
connected the moment we met yes,there's something about her.
April Snow (05:34):
You knew this is my person.
Yes, that's beautiful.
So about how many years has itbeen now since that happened?
Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali (05:41):
if you could guess I would say 10 years
, probably about a decade.
April Snow (05:47):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah and you mentioned something
important there, which is evenand I had the same experience.
Well, I had.
I found out in grad school, butnot through my curriculum, but
through a friend just happenedto say have you read this book,
dr aaron's highly sensitiveperson?
Yeah, but we don't learn it inschool, even as therapists.
Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali (06:05):
No, no, not at all, not at all.
April Snow (06:07):
That's how unknown it is, unfortunately.
Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali (06:12):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely yeah.
And my dear friend was atherapist as well.
We went to grad school together.
She had never learned about iteither.
April Snow (06:21):
Right, right, it's just not in the curriculum.
I mean, we're seeing more andmore research, but it still
hasn't made its way intotherapist's office, doctor's
offices.
Yeah, yeah, hopefully thatchanges.
I hope so.
That's why we're having thisconversation.
Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali (06:37):
To be part of that.
April Snow (06:38):
Yeah, so in that last decade, how have you
transformed your relationshipand brought your sensitive needs
more to the forefront?
Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali (06:46):
Yeah, yeah.
The first thing that it helpedme do to understanding what
sensitivity was was number one.
It was self-acceptance, becauseall of my life I have felt like
people didn't accept me, but Iactually didn't realize that I
didn't accept my own self untilI started this journey of high
(07:06):
sensitivity.
So the first step I had to dowas you know what Ibi?
There's a name for it.
Now You're highly sensitive.
It's not going away, it's not abad thing.
You are not a mistake.
Because I thought maybe I'm amistake because I don't know, I
don't know what's wrong with me,right?
(07:31):
So that was my first step isyou're OK?
And then after that, I spent alot of alone time and I started
spending time in nature.
You know, before I found out Iwas highly sensitive.
I don't know why I never spenttime in nature.
It was just like cocooned in myown room.
I don't know why I was doingthat, which is like really awful
for high sensitivity.
So I started hiking, just kindof just spending time in nature
and with that, learning toreally just listen to my own
(07:51):
thoughts and my own needs, and Iwould just kind of almost talk
to myself like, okay, debriefmyself, debrief the day.
And then that kind of gave methe energy to start to set
boundaries with other people,because I realized if you are
one of the 30% or 20%, that'shighly sensitive.
The other 60 to 70% or 80 towhatever the percentage is, they
(08:16):
don't get you.
And so if you are to live withthem, you kind of have to do a
little bit of education, right?
And so I started with thepeople around me like I found
out this thing and I would sendeverybody the test and they'd be
like, yeah, this is you, thisis definitely you.
(08:36):
And they were like, oh, and Ilet them know, stop calling me
too sensitive, I'm the rightamount of sensitive, okay, yeah,
like I just I just went rightin.
Stop saying that I'm a dramaqueen.
I am not dramatic.
These are my emotions.
They are big, there are many.
They are bountiful.
My emotions mean something, soyou are going to stop this.
(09:00):
And they were like, oh, okay,like, okay, and really I just
started to also slow myself down.
I'm super high, achieving.
I grew up in like one of themost competitive Nigerians.
Like, let me just say it, I'mNigerian and we are just like,
look here, from the moment youwere born, you will accomplish A
(09:21):
, b, c, d, e, f G.
Like, from the moment you areborn, you will accomplish A, b,
c, d, e, f G.
Like that's just it, right.
And I'm like how do Iaccomplish things and honor my
needs at the same time?
And I've learned how to likestructure my day, not caring
what people think, like that.
That part was hard, cause I alsoI grew up in a collectivist
culture where you are the people, you are your family.
(09:44):
Whatever I, you are your family.
Whatever I do reflects upon myfamily, and I'm learning to just
and I say learning because Ihaven't arrived.
I'm still growing every day,learning to honor my needs for
slowness, for stillness,learning to set boundaries, to
say this is enough.
I'm going home now.
I love you, but I'm going homenow.
(10:04):
Can you turn the TV down alittle bit, because it's
sounding like screams in my ears.
And that's what I've been doingis just because I'm no longer
ashamed of who I am, I'm able tolike, step forward and just be
like this is me, guys, and I'mnot changing, and you all are
going to have to adapt a littlebit, same way I've been adapting
(10:26):
in this very big, loud world.
April Snow (10:29):
Exactly, we all need to adapt and do our part.
Yes, and what you said is soimportant.
I used to think, oh, this isthe downtime, or boundaries, or
the foundation.
It really is self-acceptance.
You can't do anything elseunless we believe our trait is
real and, like you said, it'snot going anywhere.
Your emotions are valid and Ilove the ability to stand up for
(10:53):
yourself in that, because it'strue, you are you and there's
nothing wrong with that.
And then we all need to do ourpart in kind of softening for
others making room for othersRight.
Yeah, absolutely.
How did people receive the newyou who's coming forward with
(11:13):
your sensitivity proudly?
I'm just curious how peopleresponded to that so.
Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali (11:19):
I started with the people that I knew
were safe.
Yes, I started there with thepeople that I knew were safe.
Yes, I started there.
People who I know are naturalacceptors, people who I know are
listeners, who are moreempathetic, understand.
I started like with the safestpeople and gave them some
material to read and they werelike oh, I get it.
(11:41):
Now it makes sense why you'vebeen this way all of your life.
And then I let them know, asI'm learning, I'm going to start
teaching you.
And they were like okay, okay,or like certain things they'd
say to me that were funny before, like they thought was funny,
and I'm like we don't say thatanymore.
They're like okay, okay, yeah,that's right, we don't do that
(12:02):
anymore.
Right, and they were accepting.
And it's so funny because overthe years they would almost like
refer people to me.
They're like I think she'shighly sensitive, can you tell
her more?
April Snow (12:18):
The HSP whisperer yes.
Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali (12:22):
I'm the flag bearer for HSPs, I guess,
so it was good.
And then, for those who weren'tso accepting, or for those who
were like this is not a thing, Iset really hard boundaries.
I'm like, well, I can only nowtake you in doses because I'm
telling you that this is a thing, this is what I need, even if
(12:42):
you don't agree that this is athing.
I'm just telling you like thisis what I need to have a better,
more civil relationship withyou.
And you're rejecting that, andso I'm going to have to protect
my peace, like we can only likebe together for like a
millisecond before like implode,and so I can't do that.
I don't want to implode.
April Snow (13:02):
Absolutely Right.
Your needs don't change justbecause they don't agree.
Right, exactly.
So you talk a lot about settingkind but firm boundaries.
Yes, can you say more aboutthat?
So someone is ignoring yourneeds or not recognizing your
sensitivity, or even just tryingto turn your no into a yes,
because that happens a lot.
Yes, how can we be firm butkind?
Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali (13:24):
when we're setting a limit.
Yes, I'm a big, big, big fan ofkindness, right.
I'm a big, like it doesn'treally matter.
There's just so much hostilityin the world.
I'm like let's bring thekindness back, okay.
So first of all, just take abreath, because sometimes when
someone is trying to overstep aboundary, we can get very
(13:45):
frazzled.
There's so many emotions itfeels like a hurricane, at least
for me.
Just take a breath, breath,center yourself, ask yourself
what is it that I'm experiencingin this moment and why am I
experiencing this in this moment?
So I'm clarifying what's goingon for myself first, before I
(14:05):
communicate that with the otherperson.
And then, when you feel likeyou're able to communicate, let
the person know like okay, Iwould like to address something
with you, right, and then youtell them when you said X Y Z,
or when this happened, I felt XY Z, yeah, and here's what I
(14:28):
need from you, because sometimeswe stop at this is how I feel,
this is what you did, but wedon't tell them what you're
needing, and so they don'talways know what you need.
And then after that, giveyourself a pat on the back,
because it's very, verydifficult to set a boundary,
especially because a lot of usHSPs have been used to just
(14:50):
listening to what everybody says, not really honoring our needs
so we can easily default to that.
So when you start to stand upfor yourself, it feels
uncomfortable.
It actually feels very unkindfor some people to set a kind
boundary.
April Snow (15:06):
So a kind boundary can also feel unkind.
Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali (15:09):
Yes, it can feel unkind because you're
essentially telling the personyou can't get your way.
So that could feel unkind,right, right, even if the person
is saying something mean to youbecause that has been what
you've been used to.
They say you're too sensitive,you're a drama queen, blah, blah
, blah.
And then you kind of giggle andyou laugh and you just go along
with it.
So the moment you say you knowthat actually hurt my feelings
(15:31):
and what I need from you is torefrain from that type of
language with me.
And then you see the look ontheir face like what Did she
just set a boundary?
April Snow (15:45):
That's what feels unkind, Right?
It's a shock to them becausethey're so used to you saying
yes all the time, justcompletely erasing yourself.
Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali (15:49):
Yes.
April Snow (15:49):
And your needs.
Yeah, yes, absolutely.
Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali (15:52):
And the last piece I would say is
sometimes when you set aboundary, even when you do it
kindly, you might get pushedback.
April Snow (16:02):
It's not a guarantee .
Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali (16:04):
It's not a guarantee that they'll be like
oh my goodness, I apologize, Iknow that hurt your feelings.
Sometimes they'll say I wasjust kidding, like you never
liked to take jokes, and blah,blah, blah.
We still keep our feet firmlyplanted on the floor and we say
that hurt my feelings, I don'tcondone that language Like that.
I don't care what their theirresponse is.
That hurt me.
We don't condone that language.
I don't care what theirresponse is.
(16:24):
That hurt me.
We don't allow people tocontinue to hurt us because we
think it's unkind to set aboundary.
April Snow (16:31):
Right, you said this message a few different ways.
But teaching people how totreat us, yes, and letting
people know what's happeninginside, because they don't know,
they don't know and we get intothese patterns.
The hsp tend to be the giver,the self-sacrificer, but we
don't have.
We can turn that around, yes,but it's going to be
(16:52):
uncomfortable at first with alot of people and I appreciate
it.
You said earlier, you know,start with the safe people yes
to get practice?
Yes, and then we can move on tothings that are maybe more
escalated.
But it just because it feelsmessy or unkind or you have to
push back a little bit, doesn'tmean it's wrong.
It's such a good reminder Tryit again.
(17:14):
Yes.
Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali (17:15):
Yes, yeah .
April Snow (17:16):
You seem like you've .
I'm feeling inspired by justhow solid you are in this.
I think we really need to hearthat you can be sensitive and
you can also be firm.
Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali (17:26):
Yes, absolutely.
April Snow (17:27):
Yeah.
Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali (17:28):
Yeah yeah , sensitivity is not the same as
fragility.
Yes, Thank you, cause I feellike we, we think we are like
eggs, and then, if we set aboundary, we'll get stepped on
and then that's it Humpty,dumpty, a million pieces.
And then we set a boundary,we'll get stepped on, and then
that's it Humpty, dumpty, amillion pieces, and then we
can't put them together again.
It's like no, no, no, like youcan still set firm boundaries,
(17:48):
you can still help peopleunderstand you better, you can
have safe relationships and besensitive.
At the same time, you can sayto someone this hurts me, please
don't do it again.
That's very respectful, that'svery kind and it's still firm,
all at the same time.
We could.
We could it's, it's not eitheror it's and yes, it's both end,
(18:11):
exactly.
April Snow (18:12):
And hsp, we don't think about this, but somebody's
talking about with clients alot is how resilient we actually
are, because just think abouthow much more you're feeling and
sensing and noticing, and yetwe're still functioning at the
same level as everyone else,even with that what did you call
it?
A tornado happening.
Yes, yes, yes, exactly.
So, taking time to reallyacknowledge that resilience,
(18:35):
that strength, and I appreciateearlier you said you know, with
your being a Nigerian, you'revery ambitious, yes, and that
didn't seem.
That seemed like a welcomeian.
You're very ambitious, yes, andthat didn't seem.
That seemed like a welcome partof you.
It didn't seem like a fight.
I don't know if that's true ornot.
Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali (18:48):
No, that's, that's just, that's just
ingrained.
Is you will accomplish allthese things?
You know, the sensitive part isthe part that was like is she
crying?
Are those tears?
No, no, no, no.
We don't do that.
That's uncomfortable.
Don't wipe your eyes.
We don't do that Right.
April Snow (19:02):
But you can be both, and yes, and that too.
You can be strong, you can beambitious, you can be boundaried
oh yeah, absolutely.
And sensitive, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
And I, just to come back youwere saying you were kind of
laying out this framework, youalways coming back to putting
your feet on the ground.
Yes, that's such a good startin any scenario.
(19:25):
Yes, take a moment, take abreath, check in with yourself,
remind yourself why you needthis boundary.
Yes absolutely yes, and thenrepeat as often as possible and
if that doesn't work, removeyourself, Limit time, that's it.
I think that's another reminder.
I think we feel like we have tojust bear it with people, and
(19:53):
that's not true.
No, no, absolutely Absolutelyyeah.
If we're feeling unkind, how,or how do you personally work
with that?
Or work with clients whenthey're feeling that guilt, even
though they've been kind, butit doesn't feel that way, or the
person doesn't like what theyhave to say?
How can we manage that?
Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali (20:04):
Yeah, yeah.
A common statement I say to myclients is are you throwing
yourself in the fire to keepothers warm?
And that's a thing I say likethat's the benchmark.
So run through the statement.
You said please.
You said say to the need.
You didn't attack theircharacter.
There was no blaming, it washonest.
(20:30):
You set the boundary clearly.
You said what you needed.
What part of that is actuallynot feels unkind, but what?
April Snow (20:33):
part of that is unkind.
Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali (20:34):
And then they're like actually no, that
was actually a very polite wayto set a boundary, Okay.
So sometimes we have to removeand I know it's difficult
because, as highly sensitivepeople, were big feelers.
So sometimes I'm like, let's goback to the thinking brain.
It was not indeed unkind, Likethe actual words that came out
of your mouth were very kind.
They were very assertive andreminding yourself that
(20:56):
assertiveness means I matter andyou matter, Cause we're we tend
to run more passive, which isyou matter but I don't matter.
No, we both should matter.
So, which is why I'm all aboutkind boundaries, because
everyone matters.
I can still be firm with youand say what I need and express
my hurts while being kind to youat the same time.
(21:18):
So it's just I say sit in it.
Sit in the feeling of oh, mygosh, this is just like.
Oh, I'm squirming right now.
Sit in it, take a deep breath,remind yourself okay, I've run
through the whole thing.
That was not indeed unkind.
This feeling that I'm feelingon the inside is because it's
something new that I'm not usedto.
With time and with practice,you'll feel settled and it'll go
(21:43):
away.
So I don't run away.
I don't teach people to runaway from emotions.
I say feel the feeling.
Then go up to your rationalmind and ask yourself is what
I'm feeling actually?
What's going on, Right, Right?
And then just sit there,breathe, It'll go away, and then
we move on.
And then the next time theyoverstep your boundary, you set
(22:04):
the boundary again.
Sometimes we think that if Iset a boundary once, the
person's going to get it Evensafe.
People sometimes default totheir old behaviors, right, so
we just have to remember when wetalked about this, remind them
again.
They apologize, All right, andthen we keep it moving.
Boundary setting is a lifelongendeavor.
It's not just a one and done.
April Snow (22:25):
That's right, it's ongoing.
Yes, I appreciate that reminderjust to keep practicing and we
don't need to get lost in thefeeling of recognize it,
acknowledge it, feel it.
But then remind yourself, rightright, I wasn't unkind here, I
was completely reasonable andreconnecting to that the reason
(22:49):
why you set the boundary in thefirst place, and then
remembering oh right, this wasthe right thing to do yes
absolutely, yeah, yeah, yeah,I'm no longer throwing myself in
the fire to keep people warm.
Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali (23:01):
Like we can all be warm and and we don't
all have to be in the fire.
Like no one has to be in thefire.
April Snow (23:06):
That's right.
No one has to be sacrificed.
No, no, we can all find a spacearound the fire.
We don't have to be in it.
Exactly Such a good reminder.
So we talked about settingboundaries.
I want to expand that out tothe social experience of HSPs.
This I want to expand that outto the social experience of HSPs
.
This is another area you talkabout quite a lot and I love how
you talk about it can beenjoyable, because you mentioned
(23:27):
earlier, there was a time whereyou kind of stayed in your
little bubble.
Yes, yes.
Just to go back there.
I'm curious what changed foryou, knowing that you're
sensitive?
How did that help you shift outof the bubble?
Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali (23:39):
Yeah.
So when I was a child, I wasoften told that I was shy, yes,
and so I took that on.
I'm like I must be shy becausewhen I'm in social spaces I feel
like I'm really squirmy, I'mvery uncomfortable.
You would find me likesomewhere in a corner.
You wouldn't even notice me,like I was the child who like
(24:00):
where is she?
Is she here?
Oh yeah, there, she is, thatlittle one somewhere there.
That was always me, and Iremember saying this to my mom.
Once I said to her actually Isaid it to her on multiple
occasions I said I would love tojust camouflage myself in the
wall.
She's like what does that mean?
But that was how I felt as achild, as a teenager, like I
(24:21):
just want to be invisible,because the feelings were too
much.
So once I found out that I washighly sensitive and I found out
that you could actually have anenjoyable social life, I was
like I want to practice thisbecause I genuinely like people,
like I genuinely enjoy people.
I don't want to be in a roomwith a hundred thousand people
(24:42):
at the same time.
Like that's too much for me.
But I noticed like when I'mtalking to people one-on-one or
in small groups, when we'rehaving deep conversations, when
we're really kind to each other,I'm really loving it.
So I really had to unpack.
When have I enjoyed talking topeople?
And that's when I started tolike okay with this, with this,
with this, okay cool.
(25:03):
What types of people do I enjoybeing around?
Okay, generally, they're kindpeople, they're good listeners,
they're respectful Okay, cool.
So it's the really rowdy, toxicones that you don't like.
Okay, now, I understand.
I love you, really discerned itfor yourself.
Oh yeah, absolutely.
I was like okay, cool, let'spractice this.
(25:23):
And I started to seek people outjust one-on-one, like let's go
out to coffee, let's go out totea, Can I visit you in your
home?
Like one-on-one situations,picking the place like a more
quiet place that's not toooverstimulating.
And I realized I'm like Ireally do have a great
personality.
I mean, I thought I was just abump on the log.
(25:45):
I really thought that's what Iwas.
I really did, because I spentso much time in overwhelm,
discomfort, not accepting myself, that I was just silent in
public.
Like there are people who arelike I've never heard you speak
and I'm like that is wild,because the people who know me
are like Ibi doesn't stoptalking you're like Ibi doesn't
(26:16):
stop talking, but you gotlabeled shy, which a lot of hsps
do.
April Snow (26:18):
People misunderstand checking things out or being
overwhelmed, the shyness yes,you got put in this box.
I'm shy, and then you're, ofcourse, being overstimulated.
You do you just kind of want tofade into the background?
Yes, because it's intense, andespecially if you don't know
what's happening for you, it'sconfusing as a kid.
So socializing in general justgoes in the bucket of not good.
Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali (26:38):
Oh no, we don't do this.
April Snow (26:40):
We don't do this, we don't do it no no, we don't do
this.
No, wow, what a loss.
We sit in our room alone.
Yeah, yeah, that's it.
And what a loss for you assomeone who's social and loves
connection.
Yes yes, absolutely, yeah, yeahyeah, yeah.
Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali (26:57):
No, that was tough because I feel like I
lost like a big span of time,you know, just sitting in my
room reading books and listeningto music, like that's all I did
.
I was like because and then Iwas also labeled, on top of that
as I got older unfriendly.
There was the narrative I beunfriendly and I be doesn't like
people.
So I was like, oh okay, I'm shy, I'm unfriendly and I don't
(27:19):
like people Perfect.
So I would literally say I'mshy, I'm unfriendly and I don't
like people and I reallybelieved it.
Oh, of course it was my identity.
So I would just go out, like mymom was like you're not sitting
in your room forever, come on,like let's go somewhere.
So I'd go out and I'd just belike in the corner, like can I
just sit in the car?
She's like in the car, it's hotout.
(27:40):
No, you can't do that, you know.
But once I started finding mypeople and I also realized that
I've always had this intuition,this thing about people.
I meet someone and it's eitherI love this person or danger.
Be careful, be very carefulabout this one.
(28:01):
And so now I don't forcerelationships.
I'm able to have a relationshipwith anyone.
But I pay attention to thatintuition.
Now I'm like that gut, shetalks and she's very loud.
And once I started listening toto that instinct, I'm like I do
love people, I enjoysocializing.
April Snow (28:21):
Now yes, the gut is so accurate and so there's so
many things here.
So you're realizing how youlike to socialize deep
one-to-one connections in quietspaces.
And then listening to your gutwho are those people you do not
want to bring into your innercircle?
Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali (28:42):
So important.
April Snow (28:44):
For you personally?
What does that instinct feel orsound like?
Do you have something thatcomes up regularly?
I know this is different foreveryone.
I'm just curious what it lookslike for you, for folks that
maybe are still figuring thatout.
Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali (28:57):
Yeah.
So for me, when I meet someonewho's safe, it just feels like
the wall goes down.
Yeah, the wall goes down andI'm like my ears perk up and I
want to ask them a millionquestions and I really want to
get to know them.
And when they ask me questions,I feel comfortable and safe
(29:17):
enough to actually answer andinvite them into my world.
But when I meet an unsafeperson, it really does feel like
my spidey senses are tinglingand I want to run Like.
It literally feels like I run,and I've never been wrong.
I've never.
And I'll go back to my childhoodand I said that to my mom and
(29:39):
she was like you know what, whenyou were a child, I used you as
the yardstick to figure out whoI should be around and I was
like what does that mean?
She says if you let the personhold your hand or if you sat
next to the person or you wantedto be in a room with the person
, they were a good person.
But if you would like look atthe person and, kind of like, be
(30:00):
standoffish, something wouldhappen in the future and I'd be
like, yeah, I saw this coming.
So I'm like you knew this thiswhole time and you never told me
Right.
So apparently I've always hadthat instinct and I'm telling
you, it's never been wrong.
April Snow (30:19):
It's amazing, isn't it the track record, if you can
listen to it.
And it's true, it's very loudor clear.
Yes, it's either a clear leanin or run away.
Yes, absolutely, and it's just.
Can we listen to that?
Can we trust it?
Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali (30:36):
Yeah, I know a lot of people do.
April Snow (30:37):
We should, because it's so accurate.
Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali (30:40):
Yes, it is, it absolutely is.
April Snow (30:42):
Oh, I love that your mom saw that she didn't
probably know why that washappening, because the language
didn't exist.
Yeah, when we were, both of uswere growing up, but no, it
didn't.
She noticed something in youyeah yeah, absolutely,
absolutely, yeah, yeah.
I'm curious are there otherchallenges that pop up when hsps
(31:02):
are socializing that we want toname today?
Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali (31:05):
yeah, Sometimes it's the
overstimulation you know it'sloud people everywhere and and
for some HSPs you feel like youare experiencing the emotions of
other people.
Yes, at least that's the casefor me.
It's like if you're sad, I can.
Like I almost feel like I needto cry when I'm I don't even
(31:26):
have to know you.
Like I was at the supermarketone day.
There was a lady sitting.
I think it was having coffeewith someone I don't know.
There was a lady from acrossthe way and I could not focus on
my conversation because I wasjust like something's going on
with that lady over there and Ifelt the overwhelming need to
cry.
I didn't cry, but I was like Ineed to run out of here because
something's going on with thatlady.
I don't even know her.
(31:47):
So you have all these people andyou're tapping into their
emotions.
That feels very loud.
There's also the element of theunknown.
We tend to not like surprises,so I'm not the one to plan like
a surprise party.
Don't, don't plan a surpriseparty for me.
I don't want to do that.
Don't do that to me Like that'sawful, that's a horrible
birthday for me.
April Snow (32:06):
No, thank you.
Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali (32:07):
No, ask questions, you know it's okay to
ask.
So if you're invited to a space, it's okay to ask, like where's
it going to be?
Who's going to be there?
What's expected of me?
I tell people go online andjust look, look at pictures of
the place, you know, read themenu of the restaurant, so you
know what to expect If you don'twant to go out with a bunch of
(32:29):
complete strangers.
You don't have to go out with abunch of complete strangers.
You know you can take a buddywith you like a safe buddy.
Or when you get there, use thatspidey sense.
When you meet someone thatyou're like, okay, I feel
comfortable, that could be yourbuddy for the night.
You know, chat with them.
There's this difficulty inhaving just surface level
conversations, right, and that'swhy a lot of us don't like
(32:52):
going to you know socialsituations, because then they
talk about, I don't know, theweather or whatever.
I don't even know, but whateverthings that we don't care about
, right.
You don't have to have shallowconversations all the time, you
know, but remember like mostpeople have the need to talk
about the rain and the sunshineand all of that.
So it's like a give and take.
(33:13):
So let them, have a little bitof their conversation, and then
you can then talk about what doyou do for a living and what
drew you to this place, andthings that feel more meaningful
.
And if you're not feeling quitesuper, super safe, but it's an
environment that you have to bein.
Let's say, for example, youhave like a work related event
and you have to be there, it'sokay to be, just make the
(33:37):
conversation about them.
You know, and we tend to feelat ease when we're like drawing
things out of people, like it'sokay, like the conversation
doesn't have to be all about you.
If you're not comfortable yet,take breaks when you go out,
like I am a master of running tothe bathroom to take a few deep
breaths, like, look, I go there, I take a few deep breaths, I
(33:58):
just kind of center myself, Itake deep breaths.
I go there, I take a few deepbreaths, I just kind of center
myself, I take deeper.
I'm a big fan of ground.
I just like two feet on thefloor, I'm good, I'm safe, I'm
going to be okay, affirmingmyself and then go back in.
Staying in the perimeter of theroom is also a great tactic
that I use often.
I don't enjoy being in thecenter of the room.
(34:18):
I don't know what it is, butI'll just be like in a corner
somewhere talking to someone andalso it feels like you can
escape faster, you can run away.
You know, I like that onefinding people in the room that
feel safe.
I I'm saying that over and overagain because you don't have to
just stand there in the cornerall by yourself, you know, have
(34:42):
those conversations.
You can go outside to take abreak as well, you know, just
like.
Go outside, take a few deepbreaths, the fresh air is good
for you.
Then come back in and you don'thave to stay the entire time,
because I think we often willcompare ourselves to other
people.
We'll be like, well, they'respending four hours here, you
don't have to spend four hours.
Go there, do what you need todo and just nicely say, okay,
(35:04):
now I'll be going home, thankyou for your time, thank you for
inviting me and leave.
It's also okay If, like that,becomes your MO, like you're the
one who leaves an hour early,it's okay.
April Snow (35:18):
That's okay.
Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali (35:19):
Right, it's okay.
We get worried about beinglabeled Like Ibi's, the one who
always leaves early.
I am the one who always leavesearly.
Yeah, at least I showed up.
I showed up and you engaged.
I did, you know, I smiled, Iwas kind and nice to all the
people and then I left early andthat's it.
And I would say, lastly, let'srefrain from over explaining
(35:40):
when we're in social situations,because sometimes it's you feel
anxious.
There are people around you,you feel the eyeballs on you.
We don't like feeling likewe're being watched or we're
under pressure.
It's okay to just have yourlittle boilerplate statements.
Okay, I'm going to be leavingnow.
Thank you for inviting me.
Have a great rest of yourevening.
(36:02):
I have so many boiler platesthat I teach people and then you
leave, you know, and that's it,and you can go be in your
pajamas and watch TV.
April Snow (36:09):
Yes, Do it your own way, yes, right, and find the
way that is somewhat fulfilling,less overwhelming.
I love the idea of being on theperimeter, finding a person to
anchor to, to co-regulate with,you know, to make you feel a
little bit more comfortable andask those deeper questions.
You don't have to talk aboutthe weather, no, you don't, you
don't, and some people won'twant to go deeper.
(36:31):
Maybe that's not the person youtalk to, yeah.
Or, like I said, maybe youswitch the topic, yeah, finding
ways that work for you.
You switch the topic, findingways that work for you.
I am curious you talked aboutwhen you're younger.
You kind of stayed at the sides.
How does it feel different nowwhen you're also on the sides?
Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali (36:50):
It is different.
It's so much different.
So when I was younger, I stayedon the side so I can disappear,
like my goal was if I'm in thecorner, they won't see me, and
if they don't see me they won'tspeak to me.
That was the goal.
Don't talk to me, don'tapproach me.
No eye contact.
I'm looking at the floor.
Please, don't come near me,please.
(37:11):
I just thought the entire worldwas unsafe.
Now I'm staying in the cornerso I don't get overwhelmed, but
I'm making eye contact withpeople.
I'll sometimes run into themiddle, chit, chat a little bit,
go back to my corner, so Ialways have like an anchor spot
that I'm at.
I'll go in, do what I need todo laugh, chit, chat, giggle,
(37:32):
you know, do my little roundsand then I escape again.
So it's an in and out thing.
I'm not so focused about whatthey think about me.
April Snow (37:42):
Yes, that feels like the most important part.
Yes, it is Is allowing yourselfto show up in your own way and
to leave when you're ready.
Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali (37:52):
Yes.
April Snow (37:52):
And someone might say yes, Ibi is the one that
leaves an hour early every time.
I am, and you're like that's OK, that works for me.
I am.
Yeah're like that's okay thatworks for me.
Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali (38:01):
Yeah, what's wrong with that?
Yeah, there's nothing you know,yeah, yeah, yeah, it's fine,
it's really fine.
I've learned I am not the sameas anybody else.
I'm, I'm not.
I'm not the same as other HSPs.
I am a unique being and I'mperfectly fine with that.
And everyone does not have tounderstand me, as long as they
(38:23):
respect my boundaries.
So that's my thing, like I'mvery firm with my boundaries.
As long as you're respectful ofme, as long as you're kind to
me, you might be like that girlis so strange.
It's okay.
I could see how you could seeme as strange.
I get it.
April Snow (38:39):
It's fine, right, you're different than probably
the majority of other people.
You're coming in contact withMe too, and I appreciate that
reminder.
Every HSP is unique.
I think we think we have to bea certain way because we're in a
certain group, right?
Right, we don't have to be.
Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali (38:53):
No.
April Snow (38:55):
No, there are so many other intersections of
personality and culture andfamily and background and just
be yourself, yeah, be yourself,it's fine.
Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali (39:03):
Yeah, it's fine.
April Snow (39:04):
And I appreciate that.
Also that reminder that we canbe in the middle.
It doesn't have to be I'm supersocial or I'm super isolating.
Yeah, Find somewhere in themiddle that works for you.
That is absolutely the okayplace to be.
Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali (39:15):
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
And I do have to say thatsometimes we think that HSB
equals introversion.
No, they're extroverted HSBs.
They love to be right in themiddle of the room socializing,
dancing, woohoo.
They love the bright lights andit's fine.
But then the difference is thatwhat makes us all the same is
(39:36):
we do need that downtime torecharge after all of that.
So if you're HSB, don't thinkthat means that you're shy.
Some HSPs are shy, some are not.
Some are introverts, some arenot.
Some are extroverts, some arenot.
So you can be unique, evenwhile being in that category of
highly sensitive.
That's okay.
We don't judge, that's it.
April Snow (39:56):
Yeah, do you consider yourself to be
extroverted?
Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali (39:59):
Oh, no, no, Okay I am.
I say I am an introvert, likethe most introverted person on
the planet.
April Snow (40:08):
I love it.
I'm super introverted too, andit's lovely to see that even
introverted HSPs can also loveconnection.
Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali (40:17):
Yeah, absolutely Right.
April Snow (40:18):
Because there's this stereotype that we're hermits,
we're isolating.
We also need connection.
Yeah, we like people Just inour own way, on our own time.
Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali (40:31):
Yeah, I like that you said that in our
own way, in our own time.
That's, that's the key, rightthere.
April Snow (40:37):
It is right.
Find your own way through it.
Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali (40:39):
Yeah, yeah.
April Snow (40:40):
Yeah, yeah, if there was one message you could leave
us HSPs with?
Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali (40:46):
what would it be?
You can do whatever you want todo.
You just have to figure out thehow.
You can be loud, you can bequiet, you can be ambitious, you
can take one thing at a time,you can move slowly, you can
move quickly.
You just have to figure outwhat this HSP thing is for you
and just figure out how to movethrough it and you can
(41:06):
accomplish things however youwant.
April Snow (41:10):
Thank you so much.
Ibi this is an amazingconversation and so much to take
away and I'm just so happy youcame on the podcast.
Before we wrap up, yeah, thankyou.
Definitely will be linking yourInstagram which lots of great
resources there your website andthen your coaching page in the
show notes.
Could you tell folks a littlebit more about your coaching
(41:30):
that you offer for highlysensitive?
Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali (41:32):
women.
Yes, so I do something, what Ilike to call the triple T
framework.
Right, it's just thriving.
We learn how to thrive withyour emotions.
Most of us have just tons ofemotions and we're going through
that tornado all the time.
So I teach you how to move fromalways overwhelmed to a place
where you feel at peace withyourself, calm and secure.
(41:53):
So we talk about all of thatAgain, like I said to April, I
don't teach you how to run awayfrom the emotions.
We learn how to accept them,how to use them for our good.
And then I also teach you howto thrive while being triggered.
If you're HSV, I promise you youwill be triggered all the time
by your own internal body, bysomething in the environment, by
(42:16):
something somebody does orsomething somebody says.
So, teaching you what yourtriggers are, which is very
different for each person, andwhat do you do when these
triggers show up, so that youdon't be a hermit like I used to
be, because there's a big lifeout there for you to live and I
would love everyone to be ableto live fully.
And finally, how to thrive inrelationships, because HSPs are
(42:39):
relational people.
We might not want to be in aroom with a hundred thousand
people, but we can build reallystrong, safe, healthy
relationships.
I'm talking about workrelationships, home
relationships, all types ofrelationships.
How to set those boundaries,what to say when people you know
say things that just rub youthe wrong way, and just how to
(43:00):
feel secure when you're aroundpeople.
April Snow (43:03):
Beautiful, what a great resource.
I mean, we will be triggered,it's true, and we do want to be
in relationship.
It's just finding the path, yes, and what better than having
another HSP to guide us?
Yes, who gets it?
Yes, oh, so beautiful.
Thanks so much for joining meand Ibi for today's conversation
(43:35):
.
What I hope you remember isthat your sensitivity is real,
it's valid and it's absolutelyokay to show up.
However, you need to and formore support, schedule a
coaching session with Ibi tolearn how to prioritize your own
needs, speak up for yourself,set clear boundaries and become
much more comfortable in yourown skin.
You'll find that link in theshow notes.
(43:56):
If you enjoyed this episode,subscribe to the Sensitive
Stories podcast so you don'tmiss our upcoming conversations.
Reviews and ratings are alsohelpful and appreciated For
behind-the-scenes content andmore HSP resources.
You can sign up for my emaillist or follow Sensitive
Strengths on Instagram, tiktokand YouTube.
Check out the show notes orsensitivestoriescom for all the
(44:20):
resources from today's episode.
Thanks for listening.
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