October 7, 2024 • 42 mins
In this episode of 'SLA: Second Language Acquisition for Everyone', the hosts discuss the challenges and successes they've experienced in teaching over the current school year. Amidst the pressures of 'Devolson' and the search for suitable teaching materials, the discussion pivots from a planned talk on cognitive load theory to a candid check-in. The hosts share personal anecdotes about adjusting teaching strategies, student engagement, classroom dynamics, grading policies, and dual coding methods. They address the balance between imposing language structure and encouraging the natural flow of learning, while also reflecting on student motivation and participation. Emphasizing flexibility, the episode explores various pedagogical approaches, showcasing how teachers adapt to the ever-evolving classroom environment. The episode wraps with successes, including enrichment through extensive reading resources and program growth, inspired by student-centered learning and inclusivity.
00:00 Introduction and Episode Overview
01:00 Checking In: School Year So Far
01:58 Classroom Dynamics and Teaching Strategies
04:34 Student Engagement and Participation
09:07 Challenges and Adjustments
12:23 Effective Teaching Techniques
27:59 Cognitive Load Theory and Language Learning
38:23 Success Stories and Program Growth
40:51 Conference Announcements and Closing Remarks
References:
Carrie Toth Discussion Rubric
Text us about how you’ve Gaslit, or Girlbossed your language classroom.
Email us at info@slayyypod.com
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Bill (00:00):
Welcome to another episode of SLA second language
acquisition for everyone.
Today we're bringing you alittle bit of a different show
because.
work and life has gotten thebest of at least me.
I don't know about Ben andBrian, but we have entered
(00:20):
Devolson, the dark evil vortexof late September, October, and
November.
I don't know about everyoneelse, but I am feeling it.
And I just was not able to finda suitable article for what I
wanted to talk about this week.
(00:41):
So we were going to talk aboutcognitive load theory and what
that means for languagelearners, but the article that I
hastily found was not the bestthing I've ever read.
So we decided that we would justtake the time to.
Just check in, see how theschool year is going so far.
(01:04):
Share our struggles, oursuccesses, and what we want to
continue working on and learningthis year.
So to start off I was gonnashare some things that I thought
were going to go well, but maybedid not work as well as I would
(01:26):
hope that they did.
Ben (01:27):
Yes.
Bill (01:28):
It's, we're not as structured today hopefully we
can also share a little bit moreof our personalities as well so
that you know that we're notjust weirdos.
Language teaching robots, butyeah.
So this is we're wrapping up ourfirst grading period.
(01:49):
It actually ended just today aswe're recording it as Friday.
You'll be listening on Monday,hopefully.
It's been an interesting one.
I will say mostly I'm having avery fun time.
I've got.
Really good group of studentsthis year but I think I've
(02:12):
Gaslit myself into believingthat every year the students are
the same and who'da thunk theyare not So what was working with
my students last year isn'tquite working with my students
this year, but also What didn'twork with my students last year?
Is sometimes working with mystudents this year.
(02:35):
It's the joy of teaching everyday, every year is something
different
Bryan (02:42):
and though you've got a different student, like you
don't keep the same studentseach year,
Bill (02:46):
So the way that our school works I've got Spanish one and
Spanish four.
our school starts Spanish in preK.
students start taking Spanishonce or twice a week when
they're three years old If theyare a lifer, they've been at our
school, the, their entire schoolcareer, when they entered the
(03:09):
upper school, when they're ninthand ninth grade they typically
go into.
Spanish 3.
I've got Spanish 1 and 4.
Spanish 1 in my time, this is myfourth year at my school.
has mostly been new to theschool students.
They're freshmen that have nothad any.
(03:30):
Language class before.
So that's usually a pretty smallclass.
And then I have Spanish four,which is mostly sophomores since
they started Spanish three asfreshmen.
So I've got them as Spanish forsophomores.
Bryan (03:45):
Wow, that's wild.
Bill (03:46):
This is what's like really fun.
I have something that I'm reallyenjoying this year is that I've
got a handful of students that Ihad my very first year at the
school, so I had them in Spanishone, and now I'm having them in
Spanish four.
And it actually might only betwo.
There were three at the start ofthe school year.
But that class of Spanish one,four years ago I would think,
(04:13):
Over half of the students go toa different school now.
Ben (04:16):
Getting away from
Bill (04:17):
that's been really special for me this year is to come full
circle with a couple students.
And just seeing them from beinglittle baby freshmen to little
baby seniors has been reallyfun.
So some of the things that Ithought were going to work
really well this year.
Maybe didn't I thought thattelling the students every
(04:41):
single day, let me know whenyou're confused would train them
to let me know when they'reconfused.
Ben (04:48):
Yet
Bill (04:49):
I don't know about you all, but I feel like I don't
want to ever say that we havelow expectations, but the
expectations that we have arepretty basic.
Pay attention as best as you canand be respectful of the people
(05:10):
we're around and the communitiesthat we learn about.
And let me know when I have saidsomething that I haven't made
clear.
Ben (05:19):
I always tell my students, I'm not trying to trick you.
I'm not trying to one up youAha! I know German and you
don't! But I think that, I'm notto say anything in the work of
other colleagues, but I thinkthat they, that has not, that
behavior of asking for help and,Slowing down the class in
quotation marks is not likerichly rewarded, I think, in
many educational contextsbecause there's this pressure
(05:41):
and speed and all that sort ofthing.
Bill (05:43):
I haven't been like consistent in thanking students
for.
Giving the positivereinforcement for doing what I
want them to do.
I want them to ask me forclarification when something's
unclear.
And although I do say that atthe beginning of every single
class, I'm working on beingbetter at acknowledging when
(06:05):
students.
Are asking me for clarificationbecause I'm trying to tell them
like, Oh yeah asking questionshelps everyone.
Even if someone thinks they knowwhat I said, maybe they were
just like slightly off.
And it could be even like aslight difference between like
in, in Spanish and in English.
We have different words for likesees and looks at, right?
(06:26):
So if a student thinks thatMira, which I use as looks at or
watches, if they confuse thatwith they, he or she sees.
It could change like the meaningof something.
So if a student, if anotherstudent is like, Oh, Was that
looks at Oh, close.
Yeah, like they're very similarmeanings, but it's Oh, I'd
(06:48):
forget what I said, they seewhatever.
And that helps everyone becausemaybe someone else who thought
or was pretty secure in, Theiridea of what the word meant.
They might have been slightlyoff, so it just helps everyone.
So I'm trying to work on theprocedure of if someone asks for
(07:10):
clarification we all do like we,we all appreciate you.
Which I do try it for like otherthings as well, which is also
always fun.
If someone sneezes and inSpanish you say, Salud.
So if someone sneezes, I say,Uno, Dos, Tres, Salud.
And then I'll just, Uno, Dos,Tres and then we all say Salud.
So I've been working on thatwith students, trying to get
(07:32):
them to also say, we appreciateyou to people who ask for
clarification.
Cause also that's a pretty bravething to do as a teenager.
Say Hey, not only am Ipotentially about to look like
I'm sucking up to the teacher toshow that I want to learn, but
I'm also in front of all mypeers saying, I don't know what
(07:55):
is happening, which is like areally.
Hard thing as a kid, I think tosay in front of everyone that
you don't know what's going on.
Bryan (08:06):
you have Bill, I've got a question for you.
Do you have student jobs?
You're, what you said about thesneeze thing, because I have a
student whose job it is to like,say the trois deux un, and then
everyone says bless you inFrench.
And so I'm wondering could it behelpful if you assigned a
student to like, every timesomeone asks for clarification,
it's their job to remind them tosay that, so that there's some
(08:27):
measure of ownership that theyhave over it.
Bill (08:29):
I have tried to do helper of the day as an alternative to
jobs because I am bad at thatorganization.
So I have done helper of the dayfrom time to time.
So I just make them do all ofthe things, but it's so maybe, I
(08:53):
don't know, maybe I do make likea list that I hand to the helper
of the day saying, Hey, theseare the things you're
responsible for.
But yeah, I think that would behelpful.
So I'll definitely be thinkingabout that.
What about you all?
Before we get to our nextsegment, what do you think, what
were you going to do this yearthat maybe you tried and it
(09:17):
didn't work like you thought itwas going to?
Ben (09:22):
I would think my biggest struggle presently.
Has been with speed with pacingis that I feel this pressure to
go and make things happen andmove on to the next thing and
learn more.
And I think that speed can beharmful sometimes in terms of
learning outcomes and studentcomfort and their perceptions of
how they are doing themselves.
(09:43):
And so I'm trying to, I'mthinking of like my upper level
course, we've been talkingabout.
Various holidays andcelebrations across cultures and
I think I've just been hittingthem with the this culture does
this, and this culture doesthis, and this culture does
this, and it's been a lot, andthen we had to absorb some
German history because it wasjust German Day of Unity, and so
you have to talk about thedivision of Germany into East
West, and so you go into a lotof historical stuff, and so I
(10:04):
think I've been trying to makesure that they're comprehending
along the way so it's not just atotal disaster of me blabbing in
German about something, but Ithink in terms of the content,
the content might be feel like alot or, even if they're getting
the content, they might be like,but I couldn't say that in
German or I couldn't expressthat meaningfully.
(10:25):
And so I'm trying to give myselfpermission to decelerate a
little bit.
And it's funny when you weresaying that just now about jobs
is that I find I'm at my bestwhen we.
When something happens in theclassroom and I go, it would be
very helpful if this were tohappen when x condition arises
in the classroom.
So when the sneeze, when thefirst sneeze happens, and I say
it goes on tight, but then I cantry to prompt.
(10:47):
myself and prompt the class toaccept that job.
And I think that would help in alot of different taking the time
and knowing that every period Ican just relax into it and go
and get as far as we can and dowhatever that will be okay in
the end because I want.
Students to have time to processthe things that we're learning
about learning is changing theirbrains literally.
(11:09):
So we need to allow time forthat to happen.
Multiple exposures and differentways to manipulate new
information.
instead of jumping from thing tothing, I'm going to try to go
slower.
Moment to moment, I'm going totry to breathe more.
I think because I teach threeclasses of students that I've
already taught before, I canjump right into quote unquote
content with them like rightaway, because we're just talking
(11:30):
German and it's like last yearpart two.
Where I think I'm recognizingthat with my freshmen, first
year German learners who are notused to me, they are very
energetic.
I think when I get nervous aboutlosing their focus I just
accelerate to try to keep upwith them But that I think makes
the class feel more frantic.
So you can't learn as much andit makes me feel more frantic.
(11:50):
I want to have the time to slowdown and assign jobs.
I want to have the time to chewon content over multiple periods
and different exposures and seenin different lenses.
So I think that's been mystruggle.
It's just been like every year Itell myself that a foundational
skill, the teaching, especiallynovices is heavily modulating
your pace of delivery and notjust yapping at the speed of
(12:12):
light, which I am capable of.
I think that comes also withjust a philosophical, personal
Zen that I am still developing.
So that's where I'm at.
Brian what's going on with you?
Bryan (12:24):
I was wondering what are your, what's your class period
in terms of minutes?
What is it?
Do you have block periods, orlike regular ish, whatever?
Ben (12:35):
So we have seven classes, and three days out of the week
we meet with all seven classes.
Two days we have block days, sowe'll have the even periods on
one day, odd periods on one day.
typically it's about 50 minuteswith my kids for three days, and
then one day out of the weekI'll see the same class for 90
minutes at a time.
Bryan (12:53):
Okay, because I'm thinking about it and like so we
have block except for one daywhen we have 45 minute classes
and like I Hate the short daysbecause I feel like I have to go
at the speed of light Becausethere's not that much time and I
noticed myself speaking a lotfaster and so it's reminding me
of things that have happened inmy own class and when we have
the block days like We go slow.
(13:15):
I think like personally like Ithink the best way The approach
of like really any kind ofteaching is to limit the scope,
but go really deep.
slow and deep is the best way togo for me.
having longer classes makes iteasier for me to do that.
I know, we do not have controlover our schedules, but could
you think about ways to limitthe scope of what it is that you
(13:36):
want to teach them so that youfeel that you can go a bit
Slower,
Ben (13:40):
I think that's very wise because I know a lot about
different techniques and stuff,and so I get excited, I'm like,
Oh, we need to do TPR formovement, but then we also need
to make sure to discuss, andalso the exit quiz.
And so I've got a backwardsplan, okay, I've got ten minutes
to talk about x, y, z topic, andit won't feel very satisfying if
we only talk about it for tenminutes, so I accidentally talk
about it longer.
So I have to shorten the rightand discuss, or get rid of it
completely, or not even do theexit quiz, and yeah.
I think that's very wise, beconfident in my own class
(14:03):
structure and in what I actuallywant to accomplish, but also
have.
Realistic expectations of whatyou can get done with the
transitions that are inherent ina 50 minute period, right?
Like the kids are coming fromelsewhere.
I'm at the furthest end of myschool, literally like Narnia.
so my kids are often coming fromfar away.
And so they're getting adjustedto that.
They're worried about beinglate.
Then they get into class and I'mimmediately like, ah, German, so
(14:24):
I think being realistic abouthow long it takes to get them,
you into the groove, how long wecan stay in the groove
meaningfully and then, have asmooth exit plan.
I think that's wise.
Yeah.
I'm going to think aboutstreamlining and trying to do
less because I am a maximalistin all things.
So do less.
Bryan (14:46):
I've been thinking about It's it seems like everything
that I'm trying is working.
So
Ben (14:51):
Okay.
Brian, please elaborate howyou're built different.
Bryan (14:59):
One thing that I've been trying, maybe I've talked about
this before with my lower levelkids, is to set a timer in terms
of wanting them to use thetarget language.
Obviously, as novices, there'sonly so much they can really
say.
really, it is to get them to notspeak English.
despite doing that, they areproducing more.
it's in a level that'ssurprising to me.
I'm like, alright, so let's seeif we can do two minutes without
(15:20):
English, and then level onestudents who've had two months
of French are producing fullsentences, and reacting, they've
got errors, and they don'texactly have the vocabulary for
everything, but they're stilllike, Try and get their meeting
across.
I'm like, wow, this is great.
And I don't necessarily, I'vebeen like giving them a class
point for getting through thetwo minutes or whatever, and so
I don't want to make it too muchinto extreme extrinsic only
(15:41):
motivation territory, and Imight take that aspect away at
some point, but yeah, I've beenimpressed with their willingness
to communicate in the targetlanguage, which is something
that we always want.
Ben (15:53):
you just do it two minutes at a time
Bryan (15:54):
Once the level one, yeah, I do two minutes and then I'm
like, oh, do you want to see ifwe can do another two minutes?
Ben (16:00):
there we
Bryan (16:00):
if you say so.
Ben (16:02):
I'm taking that attention span.
Did you forget how I asked youabout the two minutes, two
minutes ago?
Here's two more minutes.
Oh, nice.
I love that.
Yeah.
it's right.
So those challenges too, I amthat, I have incorporated
something that I learned fromBen Tinsley's blog He calls like
the 10 minute routine or the twominute drill or something like
that.
That kind of summation of allthe things that he does in that
(16:23):
10 minutes, which is like, Thefirst thing is they're
journaling about gratitude,which has been super lovely it's
been really funny because Idon't know, kids are funny, so
some days it'll be like, I'mgrateful for pants, because now
it's pants weather, and I likewearing pants, and they keep me
warm, and I'm like, great,perfect and then other days it's
I'm grateful for my best friendwho has seen me through thick
(16:43):
and thin, and trials andtribulations of being, 16 and
all the sorts of things and,blah, blah, blah.
And that's her stuff.
And so you get like all sorts ofstuff and you get a lot of
insight into life.
And that's been really lovely.
And then doing a socialemotional check in, he uses the
blob tree, which I also lovejust cause the blobs were so
precious and every day you canbe somewhere else.
And then once he gives studentstime to Talk with a partner
(17:04):
about that.
Or maybe he does some teachercalled on share out, Oh, what's
your gratitude today?
Or like, where are you on theblob tree?
Why?
And has a conversation with thestudent or shares about, he
shares about himself to then yougo, okay, so we've done that.
That's like the getting warm.
Then he does what he calls thetwo minute drill, which is set a
timer for two minutes, pick arandom student.
And then note.
Just have everyone ask themquestions.
(17:26):
And it could be about theirgratitude.
It could be how about they'redoing that day, their
preferences, their kind ofanything.
And I've really, I've adoptedthat and I've been really
enjoying it because one, I getto hear their gratitudes, which
has been really lovely to theblob tree.
My brain always goes becauseGerman, but the blob tree.
Is just a nice way to open thatemotional conversation.
I asked my students how muchthey liked it.
(17:47):
If they enjoyed it, just havinga chance to barrage their
classmates with questions.
And we throw around my stuffednarwhal, a little stuffy or
whatever as a way of askingquestions like the talking
piece.
And they've just really enjoyedit because they learn things
about each other.
They get a chance to posequestions.
But I'm also on that.
I've been trying usingClassDojo, which I've been
(18:09):
hesitant to use because I amalso like, skeptical of
extrinsic motivators a lot ofthe time, but I adopted
something again that I learnedfrom Ben, which is just Tell the
kids you're going to give themone point for a word or phrase,
two points for a sentence, threepoints for more extended
discourse where they explain thereasoning or give more details,
that sort of thing.
And then also tell them thatit's not really a part of their
(18:30):
grade.
It's just a challenge forthemselves, and maybe we'll have
something nice once the classamasses X points or something.
my kids just, like you said, thechallenge of like just two
minutes.
They're like, yeah, I can dothat.
Similarly in mine They will pushthemselves to say a sentence
instead of a phrase now or saymultiple sentences instead of a
single sentence Just becausethey feel like they're getting
(18:52):
points and it's like bling andso it's a little bit of trickery
and a little bit Extrinsic, butit has actually increased the
quality of the answers and thediscourse And I've enjoyed that
so I you know, I'm gonna keep
Bill (19:04):
that kind of gives me an idea too.
Yeah.
So I, when I do classdiscussions, I use Carrie Toth's
Discussion Thursday rubric,which can be found on her
website somewhere2share.
com and Essentially, it's justlike a list of tasks that
students need to complete duringthe discussion.
(19:25):
So make a statement like eachtime you make a statement, you
get two points.
Every time you ask a question,an original question, you get
two points.
If you use a rejoinder, you gettwo points.
And for a class discussion, Iusually say if it's a whole
class discussion, I usually tellstudents that they need to get
10 points.
And that's me setting aside anentire class period to do but
(19:48):
I've thought about giving them.
Like a bigger goal for the weekand just having them keep track
of how much they participateduring the week.
And I think like that idea ofit's not worth a grade, it's
just a goal for you is maybeexactly what I need for some of
(20:09):
my like high flyers that thinkclass is too easy, but I like
it's comment writing season forme.
So I have to write a paragraphor so about every student.
And say this is what you'redoing well, and this is a goal
for you.
So I think that could I'm tryingto think about what to say to
the High Flyers.
(20:30):
And what I'm gonna be saying toall of them is I want you to
participate more.
And like to have opportunitiesfor interaction so that I can
see, like, how are youresponding to things?
How can I like alter myfeedback?
Going back to talking about likethe comprehensible output
theory.
Like I want you to producelanguage so that I know how to
(20:55):
adapt my language for you.
So if you can produce it Likeweekly goal for them and using
the similar rubric just for theweek would be beneficial.
So thanks for that idea.
Bryan (21:10):
so you're saying you'd have them keep track of it
Bill (21:12):
Yeah.
I would have them keep track ofit.
I know I'm going to know ifthey're like lying about it.
Bryan (21:21):
I have personally completely given up on tracking
participation.
First of all, I'm just tooscatterbrained to do it.
And second of all, it becomes onWednesday at 9.
21, I raised my hand.
Where's my point?
And so I can't, I just can'tpersonally deal with that
anymore.
The only thing I am doingthough, is for my level four.
for and above, like they have tospeak in the target language.
(21:43):
And so every time they speakEnglish without asking for
permission first, unless it'slike a very quick, like, how do
you say this word?
Like I write Italian mark forthem.
And so if they get a certainnumber of them, it starts to
affect their grade.
And that, I know it feels likepunitive.
And it took me years, but it isthe only thing that is working.
And they do it has seriouslychanged their willingness to Say
(22:05):
things that I know they know howto say in French in the upper
levels in French.
Bill (22:09):
I be real for a second?
Ben (22:13):
No
Bill (22:15):
I think, like a preface, we all know our students the
best, right?
So what might be punitive andnot work in one school with one
set of students might be Exactlywhat another group of students
(22:36):
in another school needs andobviously, like hopefully we
know where the line is But Ithink like my students are also
very grade motivated and that'sjust it's the culture we live
in.
It's the culture that studentsat my school come from.
(22:59):
And so that's been like thebalancing act is like, how can I
like get them to do the thingsthat I want them to do, because
I believe it's best for theirlearning while also motivating
them in the way that they needto be motivated.
Bryan (23:22):
Yeah.
definitely You're right, it iscontext dependent, and just
because so and so wrote XYZ in abook for their class and their
context doesn't mean that youhave to do it exactly the same
way, or doing somethingdifferent is wrong or illegal
you're right, you know yourstudents
Bill (23:41):
I'll push back on that.
Bryan (23:42):
And yeah honestly,
Bill (23:42):
you know what you're talking about.
Bryan (23:46):
yeah, okay, so I'm gonna write a book that says in every
single school in the world youhave to actually write tally
Ben (23:53):
Smith 2025.
Bill (23:54):
And I
Bryan (23:55):
but anyway
Bill (23:55):
I hope everyone could tell that was sarcasm.
Bryan (23:59):
yeah and honestly I do give them a lot of chances.
It's not like they speak Englishonce and they're grade tanked
they honestly have to do it 12times for it to actually affect
their grade, but still just theact of writing the tally mark
for some reason, they're like,oh yeah.
Suddenly I remember that I'mexpected to do certain things in
this class.
Ben (24:14):
It's one of those things I think that feels like a hard
hurdle at the beginning becauseyou're always watching and that
feels gross and I don'tnecessarily want that to be the
vibe but I think it's one ofthose things that once it
establishes itself as a culturething you're doing less of that
weird Watchfulness anyways,because the kids are just like,
Oh yeah, it feels good.
And like in German class, wetalk German which I think I've
(24:35):
been thinking about what we'vebeen talking about, like how
unnatural I'm sure that feelssometimes to just say entire
sentence in German, becausemaybe they're used to, I do a
lot of coral responses.
They're used to saying a word ortwo at a time.
And I'm not like.
Sitting there being like, saymore say, I'm like trying to get
them ready to but I think that,yeah, there are students who are
ready for a push and I know evenwithin my upper level class,
(24:56):
which is third and fourth yearkids, there are kids you can
push further, and there areother kids that you provide a
little bit more scaffolding for,so you say the answer, you give
them like an either or to try tohelp them with that, or you ask
a question and then giveexamples of answers, there are
kids, who have been getting thecomprehensible input, who have
been getting the interaction andare ready for that next little
push.
And it's going to help them, Ithink, maybe access their
(25:16):
systems a little bit morefluently.
I've been rereading CommonGround by Henshawn Hawkins as
part of a district book study.
And that's been nice to remindmyself that The input is what
builds the system.
the understanding and the senseof what German is, but it's the
output from them in theinteraction is what gets them
(25:37):
able to access that system morefluidly, I think.
And so I think you need lots andlots of input to access that
system and make sure it's niceand built.
And I think the focus on inputis not misplaced, Again, some
kids are ready for the push.
And so it's, at first, yeah, itfeels weird.
And then with time, it justestablishes itself.
I think my third years andfourth years right now are
getting to that place where theupcoming second to third year
(25:59):
class is feeling the vibe fromthe fourth year class, who has
been just trying so hard to doeverything in German.
hopefully, the vibe willestablish itself and it will all
even out in the end.
Bryan (26:10):
yeah, and also for me, it's not necessarily about
tracking participation because Ifelt like that would, harm
students who are just naturallymore introverted.
And to me it's just about usingthe language.
So if they only say one thing inthe class period, but it's in
French, like I'm still happywith that.
And it doesn't affect theirgrade and it helps everyone stay
focused on whatever it is we arefocusing on, which is input.
(26:32):
I think that it's just sodistracting to use English,
especially when you're trying todo more like complex advanced
things with the upper levelkids.
So yeah.
Ben (26:42):
I've been trying to balance My desire to push them towards
more complex language and have abetter read on what each
individual student is ready for.
And In that upper level class Iwas just referring to there are
36 kids and trying to get, in my50 minute period, get 36 kids to
produce a complex extendeddiscourse it's just a tough
order, my level 2 classes aresmaller, but then my level 1
(27:04):
classes, have 30 or 33 studentsand it is hard to, referee all
of that, so The teacher'slistening to this and being
like, how could I get more kidsto participate with more fluent
language?
Like you also might run into thelogistical hurdle of timing and
trying to find more efficientways to get kids to produce
language.
So that might be like partnerretells, or I played the
(27:24):
question and answer game.
And that's a good one to do moreor less spontaneous
interpersonal or, there's justlike a lot of ways to do it more
in small group controlledsettings Because, yeah, managing
that many kids and trying to getall their responses and validate
them and elaborate on them and,make sure everyone's along for
the ride.
It's tough.
It's logistically tough.
Bill (27:42):
All right.
Ben, how do you feel aboutunlocking some gates or
gatekeeping?
Maybe you have some secrets thatyou want to keep from all of us.
Ben (27:53):
I, I Brian once said that he enjoys, being cloaked in
mystery and maybe that's, maybeI'll pull that angle.
No, I I think one thing I waslearning about is cognitive load
theory and then my colleaguessent me an article so whack that
we didn't even read it so we didread it.
It was just pretty whack.
For the listener who's curious,it took an approach to language
teaching that the three of us donot.
(28:15):
Support in any way.
It was just very like whenforming the, this tense, do the,
this is follow this flow chart.
And I was like, eh, maybe
Bill (28:23):
And
Ben (28:23):
that got,
Bill (28:24):
the title was very captivating.
Ben (28:27):
But it's, it put me down this rabbit hole of just
learning more about cognitiveload.
And I was like, Oh, maybe thatis something that I can like,
think about for a little whileis just like your brain.
It's not an infinite resource.
It has limits in terms of theamount of things that can hold
in working memory.
So what you're currentlythinking about and listening to
and so finding ways to lessenthe cognitive load so you can
(28:49):
actually process what you'relearning better, be more likely
to make a long term memory, bemore likely to be able to use it
fluently in the future.
It's use dyslexia friendly fontswhen you're writing stuff.
You can search those.
I use LexEnd at therecommendation of Meredith
White.
When you write stuff on theboard, use clear handwriting so
they're not expending mentalenergy
Bill (29:08):
Apologies to my students for my rants, no handwriting.
Do we need to do?
Ben (29:16):
Mr.
Langley writes on the board, butonly with clipped out newspaper
clipping.
I think just reducing the amountof distractions.
So what they're looking at isgoing to either cloud their mind
or, be a more focused space.
And so for myself, sitting inthe seats in my classroom and
seeing what they see.
But then using graphicorganizers and chunking material
out.
So that way it's notoverwhelming.
(29:37):
One word adage that comes fromthe comprehension based
communicative language teachingworld is the shelter vocabulary,
not grammar, which is that it'sa vocabulary.
The like mental load ofvocabulary is what kind of blows
your brain up.
Cause it's new sounds andmeaning put together and you
have to make those connections.
And so really limiting newvocabulary as much as you can
(29:59):
and then using it repetitivelyso that it.
Can find its way to getprocessed and put into students
system.
Bill (30:07):
Can I chime in on
Ben (30:08):
that is
Bill (30:08):
Yeah.
Which like, if that's why I waslooking for an article this week
was exactly because I was likewanting to explore the idea of
shelter vocabulary, not grammarwhich is a quote that I think is
a tribute to just Susan Gross.
And I wanted to find out ifthere was any research around.
(30:30):
so I spent a lot of time tryinga bunch of different keywords to
find something and I settled ontrying to find something with
Cognitive Load because goingback to our episode on extensive
reading it talks about, like,why it's important to Read easy
(30:53):
texts with known words.
easy enough that your brain canfocus on sorting out all the
grammar rather than using all ofits resources on sorting out the
vocabulary.
So that's where I.
Was like wanting to go this weekanyway.
(31:13):
And I think going back togaslighting, I thought it was
going to be enough to tellstudents, Hey I know that you're
understanding everything thatI'm saying, and that's great.
And I know that you're feelingbored in class, and that's not
great, It's okay that thelanguage that we use in class is
(31:35):
easy because we have to use abunch of different grammar to
talk about The topics that we'rediscussing.
And the vocabulary needs to beeasy so that you can talk about
it in a more complex way.
Ben (31:50):
Yeah, that's smart and maybe you have experiences where
when your students get to theupper level, they have lots of
language and they've done lotsof stuff with the language.
I think because of the USAmerican conception of what
language fluency is, they thinkthat The switch is just gonna
flip and then they'll be able todo super complex things all of a
sudden, but it's still thescaffolding up towards that.
And so we can pick more complexthings.
(32:11):
They still require thescaffolding to simplify some
things or, help them cognitivelyarrange the information that's
coming in.
I think one last thing aboutcognitive load, just because
again, like we read the articleand we're like, maybe this is
not the article for us, but Iwent on this rabbit hole of
cognitive load theory as relatesto education and it matched up
with something.
I read a book over the summercalled How do we learn by Hector
(32:34):
Ruiz Martin,
Bill (32:35):
Oh,
Ben (32:35):
that was talking about,
Bill (32:36):
my TBR list.
Ben (32:39):
Okay I'm trying to think of the plot of this science book.
Yeah, it talks about dualencoding, which is making a
memory stronger by linking itinto kind of two different
representations.
And so I think when people,maybe saying a word while
pointing at it is two differentthings, Auditory and reading is
(33:01):
different, but something Ilearned from that book is that
when, and something I'veactually learned about reading
before is that when you'rereading, you're actually
activating the phonological loopbecause you are reading aloud in
your own head.
So that same part of your brainis actually being activated.
So yes, obviously we shouldmodel pronunciation and usage be
writing words in the targetlanguage, perhaps with an L one
(33:22):
translation in pointing at themand pausing.
That's just a good skill forcomprehensibility.
But I think if we can also, linkit to an image.
So draw a little picture.
If you are capable of suchthings, I am not.
Or if you can have imagery readyas helpful, but then also things
like TPR, TPR is a visualrepresentation of something.
(33:44):
And I think that could be agreat way to dual code.
They have the auditory writtenreading part of their brain
covered and then the visual partcovered by seeing a gesture.
That's what I've been trying to,in addition to sheltering vocab
and like trying to think aboutmy room from like a brain
business perspective is alsojust like, how can I do this in
multiple different ways andmultiple different ways is not
(34:07):
just.
Bryan (34:08):
typing, you can use emojis.
Ben (34:11):
Brian's on an emoji kick and is aspirational.
Brian, tell us how you're usingthose emojis.
Bryan (34:17):
I've been, getting really good at, how do I express want
in emoji?
There's no want emoji, but youcan create the idea of it, and I
think that it's engaging to themwant to try and figure out what
word I'm referencing, but thenalso associating the images that
they're seeing, the emojis withthe word, I've been pleasantly
surprised by how effectively,they've been able to recall
(34:38):
vocabulary that way.
Ben (34:40):
What context do you use that in?
Bryan (34:41):
like for warmups,
Ben (34:42):
writing?
Okay.
Yeah, that's, a way to get themreading to start and then.
Recalling vocab.
Yeah, totally.
Bill (34:49):
Brian, do you have any any interests that you're wanting to
un gate keep for the rest of theyear before we move on to how
we've girlbossed this schoolyear so far?
Bryan (35:02):
Not particularly.
Ben (35:03):
I know.
Bill (35:04):
You know it all!
Bryan (35:06):
Yeah,
Ben (35:07):
As evidenced by the beginning of this podcast,
what's going badly this year?
Nothing.
Built different.
So, work.
Bill (35:14):
All right then Brian, do you want to lead us off into
what has been going well withGirlboss
Ben (35:19):
Everything is going well for him.
Bill (35:20):
Done.
Ben (35:21):
Go for it.
Bryan (35:22):
I mentioned a few things already, like just thinking
about the successes I'veexperienced with my level one
class and then just like themotivators, different kinds of
motivators that I've come upwith to help the upper level
kids as well.
Because I use standards basedgrading my students don't get
points for doing assignments,which is a big culture shift for
(35:43):
a lot of students.
But the ones that are used to methey get it.
And I've changed some thingsaround where, again,
unfortunately, there's a bit ofmore punitive aspect to you're
not gonna Get a point for doingit But if you have x number of
missing assignments, then thatis gonna affect your grade And
so now i'm seeing like a lotmore students who might have in
(36:03):
the past thought if there's nopoint attached that I don't have
to do it that attitude islessened a lot and i've been
shifting the responsibility ontothe students in terms of
communication if you have xnumber assignments, you need to
write a letter to your parentand tell them Why is missing or
when you plan to do it or justkeep the channels of
communication open and makingthem to be the ones to do it
(36:23):
rather than me.
And so I've been.
Getting into contact a lot morewith parents around that kind of
thing I think Knowing that theyhave to do that is also
motivating them to not get intoa situation where they have to
do it And it's not workingperfectly with everyone.
I think there are some studentswho just struggle in general
with school and work completion,no matter what it is that
(36:46):
they're doing.
And you could try almost everytrick in the book and they will
struggle with it.
it's just a matter of learningpersonally, like what that
particular student needs ratherthan just trying to blanket
apply whatever strategies.
I guess like girl bossing interms of I'm seeing a large
amount of improvement, but notperfect.
Ben (37:04):
I love that.
That you've inspired me.
I was thinking about when Iwanted to do this, but there's
an English teacher in Texasnamed Sine Bond, who I follow on
Twitter, and she has anassignment where she has
students writing Send an emailto their home adults,
essentially outlining what theirgrade is and why and I have been
toying with doing that for along time because I want to
increase that communication withhome loop and just do that at
(37:26):
intervals.
And I think that you talkingabout having your kids
communicate more with theirfamilies about, What their
assignment is, what theirassignment universe is like and
stuff like that.
I'm like, yeah, I think I got todo that this week because I will
be coming back.
I'm currently at Casper collegein Casper, Wyoming at, with the
Wyoming association for languageteaching.
And they're, they are veryslight here.
(37:47):
I love them.
They're so funny and nice.
But Because I'm gone, that meansI've given kids for the first
time, this is my first absencethis year.
This is the first time that theyare having to complete things
more independently, without mywatchful eyes.
And so I'm, I'm gonna have someconversations when I get back of
Hey, there's some things missingbecause I'm not sure what you
(38:09):
did while I was gone.
And that just happens.
That happens every year.
But I think increasing thecommunication about it is a good
way to go.
So thank you.
And that gave me the inspirationI needed.
In terms of my wins for thisyear, my girl bossing, I had two
things that came to mind.
My first girl boss win isprobably my classroom library.
German reading materials, Ithink are slightly harder to
(38:30):
come by than Spanish or Frenchwhen it comes to like
comprehension based materials.
And through a combination of adonor choose project funded by
my family and friends, and thenjust telling parents at back to
school night Hey, I would neverexpect anything of you, but if
you want to donate, here's anAmazon wishlist like a bunch of
books I found that would be goodfor your kids to read.
(38:50):
My library has increased like somuch even just this year And
that feels really rewarding tohave options to offer kids when
they're reading extensively.
I also put out a little librarycard checkout system and I've
been having kids taking bookshome and coming back and being
like, I finished that book! AndI'm like, what?
This is amazing! Just by beinglike, it's a thing! And then
(39:11):
they just do it, and I'm like, Ilove that! Second girl boss for
this year.
First one, Classroom LibrarySlay.
The second one, I would say, isI'm just feeling very positive.
About my enrollments.
We are at the whims of little,little middle schoolers when
they're choosing the high schoolthings, and I can't count on
anything in a given year.
But I was looking at my numbersfrom when I started at my
current school to now.
(39:32):
And the program has grown 70percent in terms of student
enrollments.
It's really rewarding andexciting.
I'm working on a blog post aboutprogram growth right now on my
personal teacher blog becauseI've been thinking a lot about
it.
The Too Long Didn't Read versionis knowing your student
population to know what theywant.
Mine wanted college credit ofsome variety, so I found a way
(39:54):
to make that work.
Having extracurricularopportunities.
I have a very robust and funGerman club in a national German
honor society.
That helps a lot.
A focus on proficiency basedlearning.
There's research that kids feelmore positively about their
courses when they're proficiencybased than when they're more
(40:14):
traditional.
So grammar and vocab based.
And I think the last thing isjust like making.
Students feel like they belong.
I've made great efforts to makemy curriculum more inclusive of
marginalized voices anddifferent identities and making
sure that I'm looking at thekids in my room and reading
their IEPs and honoring who theyare and learning about their
cultures and their families, andI think that has really paid off
(40:37):
over time in terms ofenrollments and it also just
makes my job a lot easier.
Bill (40:40):
It sure does sound like you slayed the start of the
school year.
Ben (40:46):
Oh, wait, but wait, Bill.
But wait, Bill, aren't peoplegoing to conferences?
Isn't conference seasonbeginning?
One would I like to go to?
You didn't ask.
I would probably go toComprehensible Midwest.
You heard right.
C.
I.
Midwest.
Did you know that I have adiscount code for you, Bill?
Bill (41:06):
a discount code.
Tell me more.
Ben (41:12):
I would love to.
Thank you so much.
If you want to go tocomprehensive old Midwest to our
friends at ComprehensibleMidwest, exactly like I think
I've said before, I'm not doingvery many conferences this year.
I was lucky to be invited toWyoming and they're so lovely
here, but I'm not doing otherconferences and I'm jealous
because I would go tocomprehensible Midwest in a
heartbeat.
If you would like to go youyourself it's coming up.
Bill (41:32):
And it
Ben (41:32):
Oh, it's next week.
Bill (41:33):
Friday
Ben (41:33):
Get your butt into gear.
go boss your way to the
Bill (41:36):
if I was able to go and I needed a discount code, what
would that discount code be
Ben (41:41):
The discount code for 15% off your registration is CI
fifteens.
That's C-I-S-L-A-Y-Y-Y-S 15 oney for each of the three of us.
Again, use that to get 15percent off.
But as Martha said in thepodcast that we did with her a
couple podcasts ago we knewthere are other discounts for
(42:04):
multiple people going from onedepartment.
There are lots of different waysto get a discount and to go slay
that workshop.
Bill (42:10):
Bye
Welcome to another episode of SLA second language
acquisition for everyone.
Today we're bringing you alittle bit of a different show
because.
work and life has gotten thebest of at least me.
I don't know about Ben andBrian, but we have entered
(00:20):
Devolson, the dark evil vortexof late September, October, and
November.
I don't know about everyoneelse, but I am feeling it.
And I just was not able to finda suitable article for what I
wanted to talk about this week.
(00:41):
So we were going to talk aboutcognitive load theory and what
that means for languagelearners, but the article that I
hastily found was not the bestthing I've ever read.
So we decided that we would justtake the time to.
Just check in, see how theschool year is going so far.
(01:04):
Share our struggles, oursuccesses, and what we want to
continue working on and learningthis year.
So to start off I was gonnashare some things that I thought
were going to go well, but maybedid not work as well as I would
(01:26):
hope that they did.
Ben (01:27):
Yes.
Bill (01:28):
It's, we're not as structured today hopefully we
can also share a little bit moreof our personalities as well so
that you know that we're notjust weirdos.
Language teaching robots, butyeah.
So this is we're wrapping up ourfirst grading period.
(01:49):
It actually ended just today aswe're recording it as Friday.
You'll be listening on Monday,hopefully.
It's been an interesting one.
I will say mostly I'm having avery fun time.
I've got.
Really good group of studentsthis year but I think I've
(02:12):
Gaslit myself into believingthat every year the students are
the same and who'da thunk theyare not So what was working with
my students last year isn'tquite working with my students
this year, but also What didn'twork with my students last year?
Is sometimes working with mystudents this year.
(02:35):
It's the joy of teaching everyday, every year is something
different
Bryan (02:42):
and though you've got a different student, like you
don't keep the same studentseach year,
Bill (02:46):
So the way that our school works I've got Spanish one and
Spanish four.
our school starts Spanish in preK.
students start taking Spanishonce or twice a week when
they're three years old If theyare a lifer, they've been at our
school, the, their entire schoolcareer, when they entered the
(03:09):
upper school, when they're ninthand ninth grade they typically
go into.
Spanish 3.
I've got Spanish 1 and 4.
Spanish 1 in my time, this is myfourth year at my school.
has mostly been new to theschool students.
They're freshmen that have nothad any.
(03:30):
Language class before.
So that's usually a pretty smallclass.
And then I have Spanish four,which is mostly sophomores since
they started Spanish three asfreshmen.
So I've got them as Spanish forsophomores.
Bryan (03:45):
Wow, that's wild.
Bill (03:46):
This is what's like really fun.
I have something that I'm reallyenjoying this year is that I've
got a handful of students that Ihad my very first year at the
school, so I had them in Spanishone, and now I'm having them in
Spanish four.
And it actually might only betwo.
There were three at the start ofthe school year.
But that class of Spanish one,four years ago I would think,
(04:13):
Over half of the students go toa different school now.
Ben (04:16):
Getting away from
Bill (04:17):
that's been really special for me this year is to come full
circle with a couple students.
And just seeing them from beinglittle baby freshmen to little
baby seniors has been reallyfun.
So some of the things that Ithought were going to work
really well this year.
Maybe didn't I thought thattelling the students every
(04:41):
single day, let me know whenyou're confused would train them
to let me know when they'reconfused.
Ben (04:48):
Yet
Bill (04:49):
I don't know about you all, but I feel like I don't
want to ever say that we havelow expectations, but the
expectations that we have arepretty basic.
Pay attention as best as you canand be respectful of the people
(05:10):
we're around and the communitiesthat we learn about.
And let me know when I have saidsomething that I haven't made
clear.
Ben (05:19):
I always tell my students, I'm not trying to trick you.
I'm not trying to one up youAha! I know German and you
don't! But I think that, I'm notto say anything in the work of
other colleagues, but I thinkthat they, that has not, that
behavior of asking for help and,Slowing down the class in
quotation marks is not likerichly rewarded, I think, in
many educational contextsbecause there's this pressure
(05:41):
and speed and all that sort ofthing.
Bill (05:43):
I haven't been like consistent in thanking students
for.
Giving the positivereinforcement for doing what I
want them to do.
I want them to ask me forclarification when something's
unclear.
And although I do say that atthe beginning of every single
class, I'm working on beingbetter at acknowledging when
(06:05):
students.
Are asking me for clarificationbecause I'm trying to tell them
like, Oh yeah asking questionshelps everyone.
Even if someone thinks they knowwhat I said, maybe they were
just like slightly off.
And it could be even like aslight difference between like
in, in Spanish and in English.
We have different words for likesees and looks at, right?
(06:26):
So if a student thinks thatMira, which I use as looks at or
watches, if they confuse thatwith they, he or she sees.
It could change like the meaningof something.
So if a student, if anotherstudent is like, Oh, Was that
looks at Oh, close.
Yeah, like they're very similarmeanings, but it's Oh, I'd
(06:48):
forget what I said, they seewhatever.
And that helps everyone becausemaybe someone else who thought
or was pretty secure in, Theiridea of what the word meant.
They might have been slightlyoff, so it just helps everyone.
So I'm trying to work on theprocedure of if someone asks for
(07:10):
clarification we all do like we,we all appreciate you.
Which I do try it for like otherthings as well, which is also
always fun.
If someone sneezes and inSpanish you say, Salud.
So if someone sneezes, I say,Uno, Dos, Tres, Salud.
And then I'll just, Uno, Dos,Tres and then we all say Salud.
So I've been working on thatwith students, trying to get
(07:32):
them to also say, we appreciateyou to people who ask for
clarification.
Cause also that's a pretty bravething to do as a teenager.
Say Hey, not only am Ipotentially about to look like
I'm sucking up to the teacher toshow that I want to learn, but
I'm also in front of all mypeers saying, I don't know what
(07:55):
is happening, which is like areally.
Hard thing as a kid, I think tosay in front of everyone that
you don't know what's going on.
Bryan (08:06):
you have Bill, I've got a question for you.
Do you have student jobs?
You're, what you said about thesneeze thing, because I have a
student whose job it is to like,say the trois deux un, and then
everyone says bless you inFrench.
And so I'm wondering could it behelpful if you assigned a
student to like, every timesomeone asks for clarification,
it's their job to remind them tosay that, so that there's some
(08:27):
measure of ownership that theyhave over it.
Bill (08:29):
I have tried to do helper of the day as an alternative to
jobs because I am bad at thatorganization.
So I have done helper of the dayfrom time to time.
So I just make them do all ofthe things, but it's so maybe, I
(08:53):
don't know, maybe I do make likea list that I hand to the helper
of the day saying, Hey, theseare the things you're
responsible for.
But yeah, I think that would behelpful.
So I'll definitely be thinkingabout that.
What about you all?
Before we get to our nextsegment, what do you think, what
were you going to do this yearthat maybe you tried and it
(09:17):
didn't work like you thought itwas going to?
Ben (09:22):
I would think my biggest struggle presently.
Has been with speed with pacingis that I feel this pressure to
go and make things happen andmove on to the next thing and
learn more.
And I think that speed can beharmful sometimes in terms of
learning outcomes and studentcomfort and their perceptions of
how they are doing themselves.
(09:43):
And so I'm trying to, I'mthinking of like my upper level
course, we've been talkingabout.
Various holidays andcelebrations across cultures and
I think I've just been hittingthem with the this culture does
this, and this culture doesthis, and this culture does
this, and it's been a lot, andthen we had to absorb some
German history because it wasjust German Day of Unity, and so
you have to talk about thedivision of Germany into East
West, and so you go into a lotof historical stuff, and so I
(10:04):
think I've been trying to makesure that they're comprehending
along the way so it's not just atotal disaster of me blabbing in
German about something, but Ithink in terms of the content,
the content might be feel like alot or, even if they're getting
the content, they might be like,but I couldn't say that in
German or I couldn't expressthat meaningfully.
(10:25):
And so I'm trying to give myselfpermission to decelerate a
little bit.
And it's funny when you weresaying that just now about jobs
is that I find I'm at my bestwhen we.
When something happens in theclassroom and I go, it would be
very helpful if this were tohappen when x condition arises
in the classroom.
So when the sneeze, when thefirst sneeze happens, and I say
it goes on tight, but then I cantry to prompt.
(10:47):
myself and prompt the class toaccept that job.
And I think that would help in alot of different taking the time
and knowing that every period Ican just relax into it and go
and get as far as we can and dowhatever that will be okay in
the end because I want.
Students to have time to processthe things that we're learning
about learning is changing theirbrains literally.
(11:09):
So we need to allow time forthat to happen.
Multiple exposures and differentways to manipulate new
information.
instead of jumping from thing tothing, I'm going to try to go
slower.
Moment to moment, I'm going totry to breathe more.
I think because I teach threeclasses of students that I've
already taught before, I canjump right into quote unquote
content with them like rightaway, because we're just talking
(11:30):
German and it's like last yearpart two.
Where I think I'm recognizingthat with my freshmen, first
year German learners who are notused to me, they are very
energetic.
I think when I get nervous aboutlosing their focus I just
accelerate to try to keep upwith them But that I think makes
the class feel more frantic.
So you can't learn as much andit makes me feel more frantic.
(11:50):
I want to have the time to slowdown and assign jobs.
I want to have the time to chewon content over multiple periods
and different exposures and seenin different lenses.
So I think that's been mystruggle.
It's just been like every year Itell myself that a foundational
skill, the teaching, especiallynovices is heavily modulating
your pace of delivery and notjust yapping at the speed of
(12:12):
light, which I am capable of.
I think that comes also withjust a philosophical, personal
Zen that I am still developing.
So that's where I'm at.
Brian what's going on with you?
Bryan (12:24):
I was wondering what are your, what's your class period
in terms of minutes?
What is it?
Do you have block periods, orlike regular ish, whatever?
Ben (12:35):
So we have seven classes, and three days out of the week
we meet with all seven classes.
Two days we have block days, sowe'll have the even periods on
one day, odd periods on one day.
typically it's about 50 minuteswith my kids for three days, and
then one day out of the weekI'll see the same class for 90
minutes at a time.
Bryan (12:53):
Okay, because I'm thinking about it and like so we
have block except for one daywhen we have 45 minute classes
and like I Hate the short daysbecause I feel like I have to go
at the speed of light Becausethere's not that much time and I
noticed myself speaking a lotfaster and so it's reminding me
of things that have happened inmy own class and when we have
the block days like We go slow.
(13:15):
I think like personally like Ithink the best way The approach
of like really any kind ofteaching is to limit the scope,
but go really deep.
slow and deep is the best way togo for me.
having longer classes makes iteasier for me to do that.
I know, we do not have controlover our schedules, but could
you think about ways to limitthe scope of what it is that you
(13:36):
want to teach them so that youfeel that you can go a bit
Slower,
Ben (13:40):
I think that's very wise because I know a lot about
different techniques and stuff,and so I get excited, I'm like,
Oh, we need to do TPR formovement, but then we also need
to make sure to discuss, andalso the exit quiz.
And so I've got a backwardsplan, okay, I've got ten minutes
to talk about x, y, z topic, andit won't feel very satisfying if
we only talk about it for tenminutes, so I accidentally talk
about it longer.
So I have to shorten the rightand discuss, or get rid of it
completely, or not even do theexit quiz, and yeah.
I think that's very wise, beconfident in my own class
(14:03):
structure and in what I actuallywant to accomplish, but also
have.
Realistic expectations of whatyou can get done with the
transitions that are inherent ina 50 minute period, right?
Like the kids are coming fromelsewhere.
I'm at the furthest end of myschool, literally like Narnia.
so my kids are often coming fromfar away.
And so they're getting adjustedto that.
They're worried about beinglate.
Then they get into class and I'mimmediately like, ah, German, so
(14:24):
I think being realistic abouthow long it takes to get them,
you into the groove, how long wecan stay in the groove
meaningfully and then, have asmooth exit plan.
I think that's wise.
Yeah.
I'm going to think aboutstreamlining and trying to do
less because I am a maximalistin all things.
So do less.
Bryan (14:46):
I've been thinking about It's it seems like everything
that I'm trying is working.
So
Ben (14:51):
Okay.
Brian, please elaborate howyou're built different.
Bryan (14:59):
One thing that I've been trying, maybe I've talked about
this before with my lower levelkids, is to set a timer in terms
of wanting them to use thetarget language.
Obviously, as novices, there'sonly so much they can really
say.
really, it is to get them to notspeak English.
despite doing that, they areproducing more.
it's in a level that'ssurprising to me.
I'm like, alright, so let's seeif we can do two minutes without
(15:20):
English, and then level onestudents who've had two months
of French are producing fullsentences, and reacting, they've
got errors, and they don'texactly have the vocabulary for
everything, but they're stilllike, Try and get their meeting
across.
I'm like, wow, this is great.
And I don't necessarily, I'vebeen like giving them a class
point for getting through thetwo minutes or whatever, and so
I don't want to make it too muchinto extreme extrinsic only
(15:41):
motivation territory, and Imight take that aspect away at
some point, but yeah, I've beenimpressed with their willingness
to communicate in the targetlanguage, which is something
that we always want.
Ben (15:53):
you just do it two minutes at a time
Bryan (15:54):
Once the level one, yeah, I do two minutes and then I'm
like, oh, do you want to see ifwe can do another two minutes?
Ben (16:00):
there we
Bryan (16:00):
if you say so.
Ben (16:02):
I'm taking that attention span.
Did you forget how I asked youabout the two minutes, two
minutes ago?
Here's two more minutes.
Oh, nice.
I love that.
Yeah.
it's right.
So those challenges too, I amthat, I have incorporated
something that I learned fromBen Tinsley's blog He calls like
the 10 minute routine or the twominute drill or something like
that.
That kind of summation of allthe things that he does in that
(16:23):
10 minutes, which is like, Thefirst thing is they're
journaling about gratitude,which has been super lovely it's
been really funny because Idon't know, kids are funny, so
some days it'll be like, I'mgrateful for pants, because now
it's pants weather, and I likewearing pants, and they keep me
warm, and I'm like, great,perfect and then other days it's
I'm grateful for my best friendwho has seen me through thick
(16:43):
and thin, and trials andtribulations of being, 16 and
all the sorts of things and,blah, blah, blah.
And that's her stuff.
And so you get like all sorts ofstuff and you get a lot of
insight into life.
And that's been really lovely.
And then doing a socialemotional check in, he uses the
blob tree, which I also lovejust cause the blobs were so
precious and every day you canbe somewhere else.
And then once he gives studentstime to Talk with a partner
(17:04):
about that.
Or maybe he does some teachercalled on share out, Oh, what's
your gratitude today?
Or like, where are you on theblob tree?
Why?
And has a conversation with thestudent or shares about, he
shares about himself to then yougo, okay, so we've done that.
That's like the getting warm.
Then he does what he calls thetwo minute drill, which is set a
timer for two minutes, pick arandom student.
And then note.
Just have everyone ask themquestions.
(17:26):
And it could be about theirgratitude.
It could be how about they'redoing that day, their
preferences, their kind ofanything.
And I've really, I've adoptedthat and I've been really
enjoying it because one, I getto hear their gratitudes, which
has been really lovely to theblob tree.
My brain always goes becauseGerman, but the blob tree.
Is just a nice way to open thatemotional conversation.
I asked my students how muchthey liked it.
(17:47):
If they enjoyed it, just havinga chance to barrage their
classmates with questions.
And we throw around my stuffednarwhal, a little stuffy or
whatever as a way of askingquestions like the talking
piece.
And they've just really enjoyedit because they learn things
about each other.
They get a chance to posequestions.
But I'm also on that.
I've been trying usingClassDojo, which I've been
(18:09):
hesitant to use because I amalso like, skeptical of
extrinsic motivators a lot ofthe time, but I adopted
something again that I learnedfrom Ben, which is just Tell the
kids you're going to give themone point for a word or phrase,
two points for a sentence, threepoints for more extended
discourse where they explain thereasoning or give more details,
that sort of thing.
And then also tell them thatit's not really a part of their
(18:30):
grade.
It's just a challenge forthemselves, and maybe we'll have
something nice once the classamasses X points or something.
my kids just, like you said, thechallenge of like just two
minutes.
They're like, yeah, I can dothat.
Similarly in mine They will pushthemselves to say a sentence
instead of a phrase now or saymultiple sentences instead of a
single sentence Just becausethey feel like they're getting
(18:52):
points and it's like bling andso it's a little bit of trickery
and a little bit Extrinsic, butit has actually increased the
quality of the answers and thediscourse And I've enjoyed that
so I you know, I'm gonna keep
Bill (19:04):
that kind of gives me an idea too.
Yeah.
So I, when I do classdiscussions, I use Carrie Toth's
Discussion Thursday rubric,which can be found on her
website somewhere2share.
com and Essentially, it's justlike a list of tasks that
students need to complete duringthe discussion.
(19:25):
So make a statement like eachtime you make a statement, you
get two points.
Every time you ask a question,an original question, you get
two points.
If you use a rejoinder, you gettwo points.
And for a class discussion, Iusually say if it's a whole
class discussion, I usually tellstudents that they need to get
10 points.
And that's me setting aside anentire class period to do but
(19:48):
I've thought about giving them.
Like a bigger goal for the weekand just having them keep track
of how much they participateduring the week.
And I think like that idea ofit's not worth a grade, it's
just a goal for you is maybeexactly what I need for some of
(20:09):
my like high flyers that thinkclass is too easy, but I like
it's comment writing season forme.
So I have to write a paragraphor so about every student.
And say this is what you'redoing well, and this is a goal
for you.
So I think that could I'm tryingto think about what to say to
the High Flyers.
(20:30):
And what I'm gonna be saying toall of them is I want you to
participate more.
And like to have opportunitiesfor interaction so that I can
see, like, how are youresponding to things?
How can I like alter myfeedback?
Going back to talking about likethe comprehensible output
theory.
Like I want you to producelanguage so that I know how to
(20:55):
adapt my language for you.
So if you can produce it Likeweekly goal for them and using
the similar rubric just for theweek would be beneficial.
So thanks for that idea.
Bryan (21:10):
so you're saying you'd have them keep track of it
Bill (21:12):
Yeah.
I would have them keep track ofit.
I know I'm going to know ifthey're like lying about it.
Bryan (21:21):
I have personally completely given up on tracking
participation.
First of all, I'm just tooscatterbrained to do it.
And second of all, it becomes onWednesday at 9.
21, I raised my hand.
Where's my point?
And so I can't, I just can'tpersonally deal with that
anymore.
The only thing I am doingthough, is for my level four.
for and above, like they have tospeak in the target language.
(21:43):
And so every time they speakEnglish without asking for
permission first, unless it'slike a very quick, like, how do
you say this word?
Like I write Italian mark forthem.
And so if they get a certainnumber of them, it starts to
affect their grade.
And that, I know it feels likepunitive.
And it took me years, but it isthe only thing that is working.
And they do it has seriouslychanged their willingness to Say
(22:05):
things that I know they know howto say in French in the upper
levels in French.
Bill (22:09):
I be real for a second?
Ben (22:13):
No
Bill (22:15):
I think, like a preface, we all know our students the
best, right?
So what might be punitive andnot work in one school with one
set of students might be Exactlywhat another group of students
(22:36):
in another school needs andobviously, like hopefully we
know where the line is But Ithink like my students are also
very grade motivated and that'sjust it's the culture we live
in.
It's the culture that studentsat my school come from.
(22:59):
And so that's been like thebalancing act is like, how can I
like get them to do the thingsthat I want them to do, because
I believe it's best for theirlearning while also motivating
them in the way that they needto be motivated.
Bryan (23:22):
Yeah.
definitely You're right, it iscontext dependent, and just
because so and so wrote XYZ in abook for their class and their
context doesn't mean that youhave to do it exactly the same
way, or doing somethingdifferent is wrong or illegal
you're right, you know yourstudents
Bill (23:41):
I'll push back on that.
Bryan (23:42):
And yeah honestly,
Bill (23:42):
you know what you're talking about.
Bryan (23:46):
yeah, okay, so I'm gonna write a book that says in every
single school in the world youhave to actually write tally
Ben (23:53):
Smith 2025.
Bill (23:54):
And I
Bryan (23:55):
but anyway
Bill (23:55):
I hope everyone could tell that was sarcasm.
Bryan (23:59):
yeah and honestly I do give them a lot of chances.
It's not like they speak Englishonce and they're grade tanked
they honestly have to do it 12times for it to actually affect
their grade, but still just theact of writing the tally mark
for some reason, they're like,oh yeah.
Suddenly I remember that I'mexpected to do certain things in
this class.
Ben (24:14):
It's one of those things I think that feels like a hard
hurdle at the beginning becauseyou're always watching and that
feels gross and I don'tnecessarily want that to be the
vibe but I think it's one ofthose things that once it
establishes itself as a culturething you're doing less of that
weird Watchfulness anyways,because the kids are just like,
Oh yeah, it feels good.
And like in German class, wetalk German which I think I've
(24:35):
been thinking about what we'vebeen talking about, like how
unnatural I'm sure that feelssometimes to just say entire
sentence in German, becausemaybe they're used to, I do a
lot of coral responses.
They're used to saying a word ortwo at a time.
And I'm not like.
Sitting there being like, saymore say, I'm like trying to get
them ready to but I think that,yeah, there are students who are
ready for a push and I know evenwithin my upper level class,
(24:56):
which is third and fourth yearkids, there are kids you can
push further, and there areother kids that you provide a
little bit more scaffolding for,so you say the answer, you give
them like an either or to try tohelp them with that, or you ask
a question and then giveexamples of answers, there are
kids, who have been getting thecomprehensible input, who have
been getting the interaction andare ready for that next little
push.
And it's going to help them, Ithink, maybe access their
(25:16):
systems a little bit morefluently.
I've been rereading CommonGround by Henshawn Hawkins as
part of a district book study.
And that's been nice to remindmyself that The input is what
builds the system.
the understanding and the senseof what German is, but it's the
output from them in theinteraction is what gets them
(25:37):
able to access that system morefluidly, I think.
And so I think you need lots andlots of input to access that
system and make sure it's niceand built.
And I think the focus on inputis not misplaced, Again, some
kids are ready for the push.
And so it's, at first, yeah, itfeels weird.
And then with time, it justestablishes itself.
I think my third years andfourth years right now are
getting to that place where theupcoming second to third year
(25:59):
class is feeling the vibe fromthe fourth year class, who has
been just trying so hard to doeverything in German.
hopefully, the vibe willestablish itself and it will all
even out in the end.
Bryan (26:10):
yeah, and also for me, it's not necessarily about
tracking participation because Ifelt like that would, harm
students who are just naturallymore introverted.
And to me it's just about usingthe language.
So if they only say one thing inthe class period, but it's in
French, like I'm still happywith that.
And it doesn't affect theirgrade and it helps everyone stay
focused on whatever it is we arefocusing on, which is input.
(26:32):
I think that it's just sodistracting to use English,
especially when you're trying todo more like complex advanced
things with the upper levelkids.
So yeah.
Ben (26:42):
I've been trying to balance My desire to push them towards
more complex language and have abetter read on what each
individual student is ready for.
And In that upper level class Iwas just referring to there are
36 kids and trying to get, in my50 minute period, get 36 kids to
produce a complex extendeddiscourse it's just a tough
order, my level 2 classes aresmaller, but then my level 1
(27:04):
classes, have 30 or 33 studentsand it is hard to, referee all
of that, so The teacher'slistening to this and being
like, how could I get more kidsto participate with more fluent
language?
Like you also might run into thelogistical hurdle of timing and
trying to find more efficientways to get kids to produce
language.
So that might be like partnerretells, or I played the
(27:24):
question and answer game.
And that's a good one to do moreor less spontaneous
interpersonal or, there's justlike a lot of ways to do it more
in small group controlledsettings Because, yeah, managing
that many kids and trying to getall their responses and validate
them and elaborate on them and,make sure everyone's along for
the ride.
It's tough.
It's logistically tough.
Bill (27:42):
All right.
Ben, how do you feel aboutunlocking some gates or
gatekeeping?
Maybe you have some secrets thatyou want to keep from all of us.
Ben (27:53):
I, I Brian once said that he enjoys, being cloaked in
mystery and maybe that's, maybeI'll pull that angle.
No, I I think one thing I waslearning about is cognitive load
theory and then my colleaguessent me an article so whack that
we didn't even read it so we didread it.
It was just pretty whack.
For the listener who's curious,it took an approach to language
teaching that the three of us donot.
(28:15):
Support in any way.
It was just very like whenforming the, this tense, do the,
this is follow this flow chart.
And I was like, eh, maybe
Bill (28:23):
And
Ben (28:23):
that got,
Bill (28:24):
the title was very captivating.
Ben (28:27):
But it's, it put me down this rabbit hole of just
learning more about cognitiveload.
And I was like, Oh, maybe thatis something that I can like,
think about for a little whileis just like your brain.
It's not an infinite resource.
It has limits in terms of theamount of things that can hold
in working memory.
So what you're currentlythinking about and listening to
and so finding ways to lessenthe cognitive load so you can
(28:49):
actually process what you'relearning better, be more likely
to make a long term memory, bemore likely to be able to use it
fluently in the future.
It's use dyslexia friendly fontswhen you're writing stuff.
You can search those.
I use LexEnd at therecommendation of Meredith
White.
When you write stuff on theboard, use clear handwriting so
they're not expending mentalenergy
Bill (29:08):
Apologies to my students for my rants, no handwriting.
Do we need to do?
Ben (29:16):
Mr.
Langley writes on the board, butonly with clipped out newspaper
clipping.
I think just reducing the amountof distractions.
So what they're looking at isgoing to either cloud their mind
or, be a more focused space.
And so for myself, sitting inthe seats in my classroom and
seeing what they see.
But then using graphicorganizers and chunking material
out.
So that way it's notoverwhelming.
(29:37):
One word adage that comes fromthe comprehension based
communicative language teachingworld is the shelter vocabulary,
not grammar, which is that it'sa vocabulary.
The like mental load ofvocabulary is what kind of blows
your brain up.
Cause it's new sounds andmeaning put together and you
have to make those connections.
And so really limiting newvocabulary as much as you can
(29:59):
and then using it repetitivelyso that it.
Can find its way to getprocessed and put into students
system.
Bill (30:07):
Can I chime in on
Ben (30:08):
that is
Bill (30:08):
Yeah.
Which like, if that's why I waslooking for an article this week
was exactly because I was likewanting to explore the idea of
shelter vocabulary, not grammarwhich is a quote that I think is
a tribute to just Susan Gross.
And I wanted to find out ifthere was any research around.
(30:30):
so I spent a lot of time tryinga bunch of different keywords to
find something and I settled ontrying to find something with
Cognitive Load because goingback to our episode on extensive
reading it talks about, like,why it's important to Read easy
(30:53):
texts with known words.
easy enough that your brain canfocus on sorting out all the
grammar rather than using all ofits resources on sorting out the
vocabulary.
So that's where I.
Was like wanting to go this weekanyway.
(31:13):
And I think going back togaslighting, I thought it was
going to be enough to tellstudents, Hey I know that you're
understanding everything thatI'm saying, and that's great.
And I know that you're feelingbored in class, and that's not
great, It's okay that thelanguage that we use in class is
(31:35):
easy because we have to use abunch of different grammar to
talk about The topics that we'rediscussing.
And the vocabulary needs to beeasy so that you can talk about
it in a more complex way.
Ben (31:50):
Yeah, that's smart and maybe you have experiences where
when your students get to theupper level, they have lots of
language and they've done lotsof stuff with the language.
I think because of the USAmerican conception of what
language fluency is, they thinkthat The switch is just gonna
flip and then they'll be able todo super complex things all of a
sudden, but it's still thescaffolding up towards that.
And so we can pick more complexthings.
(32:11):
They still require thescaffolding to simplify some
things or, help them cognitivelyarrange the information that's
coming in.
I think one last thing aboutcognitive load, just because
again, like we read the articleand we're like, maybe this is
not the article for us, but Iwent on this rabbit hole of
cognitive load theory as relatesto education and it matched up
with something.
I read a book over the summercalled How do we learn by Hector
(32:34):
Ruiz Martin,
Bill (32:35):
Oh,
Ben (32:35):
that was talking about,
Bill (32:36):
my TBR list.
Ben (32:39):
Okay I'm trying to think of the plot of this science book.
Yeah, it talks about dualencoding, which is making a
memory stronger by linking itinto kind of two different
representations.
And so I think when people,maybe saying a word while
pointing at it is two differentthings, Auditory and reading is
(33:01):
different, but something Ilearned from that book is that
when, and something I'veactually learned about reading
before is that when you'rereading, you're actually
activating the phonological loopbecause you are reading aloud in
your own head.
So that same part of your brainis actually being activated.
So yes, obviously we shouldmodel pronunciation and usage be
writing words in the targetlanguage, perhaps with an L one
(33:22):
translation in pointing at themand pausing.
That's just a good skill forcomprehensibility.
But I think if we can also, linkit to an image.
So draw a little picture.
If you are capable of suchthings, I am not.
Or if you can have imagery readyas helpful, but then also things
like TPR, TPR is a visualrepresentation of something.
(33:44):
And I think that could be agreat way to dual code.
They have the auditory writtenreading part of their brain
covered and then the visual partcovered by seeing a gesture.
That's what I've been trying to,in addition to sheltering vocab
and like trying to think aboutmy room from like a brain
business perspective is alsojust like, how can I do this in
multiple different ways andmultiple different ways is not
(34:07):
just.
Bryan (34:08):
typing, you can use emojis.
Ben (34:11):
Brian's on an emoji kick and is aspirational.
Brian, tell us how you're usingthose emojis.
Bryan (34:17):
I've been, getting really good at, how do I express want
in emoji?
There's no want emoji, but youcan create the idea of it, and I
think that it's engaging to themwant to try and figure out what
word I'm referencing, but thenalso associating the images that
they're seeing, the emojis withthe word, I've been pleasantly
surprised by how effectively,they've been able to recall
(34:38):
vocabulary that way.
Ben (34:40):
What context do you use that in?
Bryan (34:41):
like for warmups,
Ben (34:42):
writing?
Okay.
Yeah, that's, a way to get themreading to start and then.
Recalling vocab.
Yeah, totally.
Bill (34:49):
Brian, do you have any any interests that you're wanting to
un gate keep for the rest of theyear before we move on to how
we've girlbossed this schoolyear so far?
Bryan (35:02):
Not particularly.
Ben (35:03):
I know.
Bill (35:04):
You know it all!
Bryan (35:06):
Yeah,
Ben (35:07):
As evidenced by the beginning of this podcast,
what's going badly this year?
Nothing.
Built different.
So, work.
Bill (35:14):
All right then Brian, do you want to lead us off into
what has been going well withGirlboss
Ben (35:19):
Everything is going well for him.
Bill (35:20):
Done.
Ben (35:21):
Go for it.
Bryan (35:22):
I mentioned a few things already, like just thinking
about the successes I'veexperienced with my level one
class and then just like themotivators, different kinds of
motivators that I've come upwith to help the upper level
kids as well.
Because I use standards basedgrading my students don't get
points for doing assignments,which is a big culture shift for
(35:43):
a lot of students.
But the ones that are used to methey get it.
And I've changed some thingsaround where, again,
unfortunately, there's a bit ofmore punitive aspect to you're
not gonna Get a point for doingit But if you have x number of
missing assignments, then thatis gonna affect your grade And
so now i'm seeing like a lotmore students who might have in
(36:03):
the past thought if there's nopoint attached that I don't have
to do it that attitude islessened a lot and i've been
shifting the responsibility ontothe students in terms of
communication if you have xnumber assignments, you need to
write a letter to your parentand tell them Why is missing or
when you plan to do it or justkeep the channels of
communication open and makingthem to be the ones to do it
(36:23):
rather than me.
And so I've been.
Getting into contact a lot morewith parents around that kind of
thing I think Knowing that theyhave to do that is also
motivating them to not get intoa situation where they have to
do it And it's not workingperfectly with everyone.
I think there are some studentswho just struggle in general
with school and work completion,no matter what it is that
(36:46):
they're doing.
And you could try almost everytrick in the book and they will
struggle with it.
it's just a matter of learningpersonally, like what that
particular student needs ratherthan just trying to blanket
apply whatever strategies.
I guess like girl bossing interms of I'm seeing a large
amount of improvement, but notperfect.
Ben (37:04):
I love that.
That you've inspired me.
I was thinking about when Iwanted to do this, but there's
an English teacher in Texasnamed Sine Bond, who I follow on
Twitter, and she has anassignment where she has
students writing Send an emailto their home adults,
essentially outlining what theirgrade is and why and I have been
toying with doing that for along time because I want to
increase that communication withhome loop and just do that at
(37:26):
intervals.
And I think that you talkingabout having your kids
communicate more with theirfamilies about, What their
assignment is, what theirassignment universe is like and
stuff like that.
I'm like, yeah, I think I got todo that this week because I will
be coming back.
I'm currently at Casper collegein Casper, Wyoming at, with the
Wyoming association for languageteaching.
And they're, they are veryslight here.
(37:47):
I love them.
They're so funny and nice.
But Because I'm gone, that meansI've given kids for the first
time, this is my first absencethis year.
This is the first time that theyare having to complete things
more independently, without mywatchful eyes.
And so I'm, I'm gonna have someconversations when I get back of
Hey, there's some things missingbecause I'm not sure what you
(38:09):
did while I was gone.
And that just happens.
That happens every year.
But I think increasing thecommunication about it is a good
way to go.
So thank you.
And that gave me the inspirationI needed.
In terms of my wins for thisyear, my girl bossing, I had two
things that came to mind.
My first girl boss win isprobably my classroom library.
German reading materials, Ithink are slightly harder to
(38:30):
come by than Spanish or Frenchwhen it comes to like
comprehension based materials.
And through a combination of adonor choose project funded by
my family and friends, and thenjust telling parents at back to
school night Hey, I would neverexpect anything of you, but if
you want to donate, here's anAmazon wishlist like a bunch of
books I found that would be goodfor your kids to read.
(38:50):
My library has increased like somuch even just this year And
that feels really rewarding tohave options to offer kids when
they're reading extensively.
I also put out a little librarycard checkout system and I've
been having kids taking bookshome and coming back and being
like, I finished that book! AndI'm like, what?
This is amazing! Just by beinglike, it's a thing! And then
(39:11):
they just do it, and I'm like, Ilove that! Second girl boss for
this year.
First one, Classroom LibrarySlay.
The second one, I would say, isI'm just feeling very positive.
About my enrollments.
We are at the whims of little,little middle schoolers when
they're choosing the high schoolthings, and I can't count on
anything in a given year.
But I was looking at my numbersfrom when I started at my
current school to now.
(39:32):
And the program has grown 70percent in terms of student
enrollments.
It's really rewarding andexciting.
I'm working on a blog post aboutprogram growth right now on my
personal teacher blog becauseI've been thinking a lot about
it.
The Too Long Didn't Read versionis knowing your student
population to know what theywant.
Mine wanted college credit ofsome variety, so I found a way
(39:54):
to make that work.
Having extracurricularopportunities.
I have a very robust and funGerman club in a national German
honor society.
That helps a lot.
A focus on proficiency basedlearning.
There's research that kids feelmore positively about their
courses when they're proficiencybased than when they're more
(40:14):
traditional.
So grammar and vocab based.
And I think the last thing isjust like making.
Students feel like they belong.
I've made great efforts to makemy curriculum more inclusive of
marginalized voices anddifferent identities and making
sure that I'm looking at thekids in my room and reading
their IEPs and honoring who theyare and learning about their
cultures and their families, andI think that has really paid off
(40:37):
over time in terms ofenrollments and it also just
makes my job a lot easier.
Bill (40:40):
It sure does sound like you slayed the start of the
school year.
Ben (40:46):
Oh, wait, but wait, Bill.
But wait, Bill, aren't peoplegoing to conferences?
Isn't conference seasonbeginning?
One would I like to go to?
You didn't ask.
I would probably go toComprehensible Midwest.
You heard right.
C.
I.
Midwest.
Did you know that I have adiscount code for you, Bill?
Bill (41:06):
a discount code.
Tell me more.
Ben (41:12):
I would love to.
Thank you so much.
If you want to go tocomprehensive old Midwest to our
friends at ComprehensibleMidwest, exactly like I think
I've said before, I'm not doingvery many conferences this year.
I was lucky to be invited toWyoming and they're so lovely
here, but I'm not doing otherconferences and I'm jealous
because I would go tocomprehensible Midwest in a
heartbeat.
If you would like to go youyourself it's coming up.
Bill (41:32):
And it
Ben (41:32):
Oh, it's next week.
Bill (41:33):
Friday
Ben (41:33):
Get your butt into gear.
go boss your way to the
Bill (41:36):
if I was able to go and I needed a discount code, what
would that discount code be
Ben (41:41):
The discount code for 15% off your registration is CI
fifteens.
That's C-I-S-L-A-Y-Y-Y-S 15 oney for each of the three of us.
Again, use that to get 15percent off.
But as Martha said in thepodcast that we did with her a
couple podcasts ago we knewthere are other discounts for
(42:04):
multiple people going from onedepartment.
There are lots of different waysto get a discount and to go slay
that workshop.
Bill (42:10):
Bye
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