February 10, 2025 • 44 mins
Gaslight
Humor Doesn’t Always Work
Not Being Intentional
Some Things Don’t Work In YOUR Context
Thinking Expected Behaviors Are Obvious
Gatekeep - Kei Tsukamaki, ACTFL National Language Teacher of the Year 2025
Dog Training Teaches Us About Classroom Environments
The ABCs
Taking Time for Reflection
Prioritizing Relationships and Routines
Girlboss
Understanding Students’ Responses to Questions
Hallway Conversations That Honor Student Agency
Values
References
Arise by Elena Aguilar
Fenzi Food For Thought - “Force Free Beyond Training” (dog training podcast about R+ as a way of life)
Cog-Dog Radio (a dog training podcast Kei recommends)
“Plenty in Life is Free” by Kathy Sdao, a book by a former US Navy dolphin trainer
Dog Training Instagram Accounts Kei Recommends:
R+ Dogs
Tails of Connection
Rachel Laurie Harris
Text us about how you’ve Gaslit, or Girlbossed your language classroom.
Email us at info@slayyypod.com
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
FishRod (00:00):
Hello, everybody, and welcome back to another episode
(00:02):
of Slay's Second LanguageAcquisition for Everyone.
are honored to have a specialguest today who is going to
share their wisdom and knowledgewith us and who was highlighted
as part of the Actual Teacher ofthe Year award.
Kate Tsukamaki is a WashingtonAssociation for Language
Teaching Teacher of the Year,the Pacific Northwest Council
for Languages Teacher of theYear.
(00:24):
And the Actful 2025 NationalLanguage Teacher of the Year.
Okay, we are so excited to haveyou as a guest on our podcast.
Hello, how are you?
Kei (00:33):
I'm doing really well.
Thank you so much for having mehere.
FishRod (00:36):
We are so pleased to have you on the podcast and
would love to put as a podcast,a plug in for the Teachers of
the Year programs.
These are great ways to get tomeet other educators to reflect
on your professional developmentand all sorts of things.
So if you know somebody who isreally crushing it out there,
nominate them for an award.
The best things that come of itare that they feel really
(00:57):
professionally embraced andhugged, from experience.
So, Kay, tell us a little bitabout your teaching career, how
you got to where you are now.
Kei (01:07):
Yeah, of course.
So I am third generationJapanese American, but I grew up
speaking only English at home.
So I was really fortunate tolearn both Spanish and Japanese
starting Spanish in middleschool and then taking Japanese
at high school and college.
So one of those people whoalways knew what I wanted to be,
and I've always wanted to be ateacher.
(01:29):
It was really, it's been reallygreat for me to be able to teach
Japanese.
I added my Spanish.
Spanish endorsement back in soI'm certified to teach both, but
currently I teach Japanese 1 APat a public high school, grades
9 12, in Kirkland, Washington,just northeast of Seattle.
FishRod (01:47):
Slay.
You also do some district levellanguage program coordination,
is that right?
Kei (01:53):
Yes this year I'm part time working at my district office,
helping support world languageteachers in all the programs
that we have in our district.
FishRod (02:02):
Amazing.
And then you are traveling thenation as the actual Teacher of
the Year for 2025.
How is that going so far?
Kei (02:10):
It's been really wonderful.
The first conference I went towas at the end of January.
I went to the Southwestconference down in Phoenix.
And like you were saying aboutthe whole actual Teacher of the
Year program, really the, one ofthe greatest parts of this is
getting to go around and meetother educators and learn from
them.
And these conferences are suchgreat opportunities to see
(02:30):
teachers who in very similarcontexts, but also teachers who
have very different contexts andbeing able to see what ideas
there are at all levels, right,from pre k up through
university.
the three other conferences arein March, and then PNCFL is in
April.
FishRod (02:48):
Yes, in Anchorage.
So that'll be lots of good fun.
So we invited you on the podcastbecause we know that you have a
lot of professional expertise toshare.
And you wanted to share with usabout creating positive
classroom environments.
And so Bill, Brian and I aregoing to guess light ourselves
or speak of how we havepreviously guessed that
ourselves in the process oftrying to create positive
(03:11):
classroom environments.
But maybe failing at that orcoming short of our ideals.
bill (03:17):
Sometimes, I guess, let myself into thinking I'm funny.
FishRod (03:20):
Sometimes humor does not come off
bill (03:22):
Yeah.
FishRod (03:23):
the developmental of your, your audience.
You know, sometimes sarcasmliterally doesn't register as
anything other than meanness.
And so you can think you'rehaving some fun bantering and a
student can take it superseriously.
So yeah, developmentalappropriateness, but also.
bill (03:38):
Yeah.
FishRod (03:39):
we are funny 100 percent of the time.
bill (03:41):
No, I was talking more like they're trying to make me
believe that I'm not funny and
Bryan (03:46):
are they failing or winning?
bill (03:49):
sometimes winning, sometimes failing, but I, I said
from the beginning of the yearto be cringes to be free.
And I am free.
FishRod (03:57):
I think that, I came in with a goodwill towards children
generally, which I think shouldperhaps be a prerequisite.
I don't know how exactly youwould certify that in an exam.
But I think I generally waslike, I do like working with
children, and like, I think thisis going to be great.
And I think that, In thebeginning, I assumed that I
could ride that goodwill andthat sort of feeling that I was
(04:19):
going to do a good job and that,you know, the vibes are going to
be immaculate because, you know,I'm good at banter and I have
fun and I was trying to make itdifferent from their language
classes or their other classesor whatever that, that that was
going to take me where I wantedto go.
And then you butt up against,you know Children are individual
human beings coming to theclassroom with a variety of
(04:40):
experiences.
And so some things worked, somethings didn't.
But I think the lack of, likeself awareness in the process
also me from making the positiveenvironment I wanted because I
thought it would just establishitself rather than me actually
taking steps to establish it.
bill (04:57):
Yeah, so I know that we've mentioned a couple of times on a
couple of different episodesabout how, like.
Students, at least like in mostof our context, where they're
starting to take language later,maybe in high school, middle
school or high school, like theyknow how to take a history
class.
They know how to take an Englishclass.
They know how to take a mathclass.
(05:17):
and.
I think, like, yeah, my, my bestintentions to, make my class be
the best version of that, of it,that it could be assumed that
they would be able to justeasily figure out this
completely wild and differentclass.
(05:38):
finding balance, and between,the seriousness, I'm doing air
quotes, the seriousness ofschool with, like, the
playfulness of language.
Bryan (05:47):
I think about when I tried to implement, like,
something I had seen while I wasstudying at the Concordia
Language Villages in Minnesota,shouts out to them where they
have language immersion programsfor a lot of different languages
In the summer and also thatduring the school year different
links, things like that.
Anyway, one of the things thatthey do is that students.
(06:09):
Children wear, like, a name tagwith their language name on it,
and by choosing to be, they callit different things in different
languages, but, like, languagemaster, essentially, it's like,
you get to wear, like, a speciallanyard that means that you
commit to only speaking thelanguage for a certain amount of
time, and I was like, that'sgreat, like, these kids seem
super pumped and motivated touse the language, and, like,
something about the idea thatthey are choosing to do it, it's
(06:31):
not something that's beingforced upon them,, seemed to be
in alignment with what I had Youknow, been taught about how
motivation should work in theorywith students.
And so I was like, I'm gonnatake this back to my classroom
and try it.
So I had them all make littlelanguage master, lanyards.
And I said, like, hey, if youwant to, you can put it on and
say, I'm committing to onlyspeaking in French during class.
(06:54):
And you know, maybe the morepeople do that, like, we can get
some class rewards or somethinglike that.
And it was a disaster.
I, you know, like, at the camps,they would do, like, a little
song when it was time to put iton, and, like, everyone's, like,
you know, in the groove, and,like, it was something, it's,
like, something cultural, right,something cultural was very
(07:14):
present there that, like, Youcan't really build from scratch.
I don't know if that makessense, but like, There were,
there were some students whowere just completely not into it
at all.
They didn't ever try.
Then there were other studentswho were only into it for the
singing part.
And then like, they'd put it onand then start speaking English
anyway.
And like, well, okay, well nowyou have to take it off.
And like, it just became toomuch to manage.
It just, it didn't work.
(07:35):
So I was like, we're not doingthis anymore.
And then it was funny because atsome point this school year, a
student was like, Hey, why don'twe do the language master thing
anymore?
I'm like, well, because itdidn't work.
And I could see the like wheelsturning in their head.
And I was like, yeah, it wasn'tjust a little fun song thing.
And I had actual reason fordoing it, you know?
And so I do think I still have apositive, generally positive
(07:56):
class culture.
It's just, I just know mystudents enough to know that
something like that doesn't workwith them.
So.
FishRod (08:04):
Yeah, come into interaction sometimes to
thinking that.
Students do know what it's forand why and like also how to do
stuff.
Like I've been talking to myfriend who is a teacher in
California as well.
And he's like, they misspelledthe name of the book in the, in
the report.
And I'm like, cause they do thatsometimes.
Or like, you know, it seemsobvious that you shouldn't, I
(08:24):
don't know, like smack eachother with the clipboard or
throw a book or something likethat.
And then they do it and you'relike.
seems obvious to me as, like, a,an adult who, you know,
acculturated them in this, like,professional environment sort of
situation.
They just, like, don't seem toknow the reasons, but that, you
know, sometimes also thespecific behaviors that we're
like, Oh, those are duhbehaviors, and then they don't
do it, and we're like, How darethey?
bill (08:46):
Yeah, something on that too with like gaslighting
ourselves is just only onlytelling students what not to do
rather than demonstrating whatto do.
And I might have a girl bossabout that later, but.
just these are the reasons whywe're doing,, I'm asking you to
do this because this and I'vehad a long standing thought that
(09:11):
students really want to know whywe're doing things just like the
long term, I can do this at theend of the year, but like, want
to know how it's buildingbecause we know just like people
in general, are very, tend to beshort sighted.
So what, what's in it for menow?
(09:31):
So trying to explain like, yeah,here's why we're doing this for
the longterm.
But in the short term, this iswhy it's important.
FishRod (09:39):
So, Kay, you proposed the idea of talking about
positive classroom environmentsand then also shared that some
of your thinking about thistopic came from an unlikely
source, which was dog trainingtake us on that journey.
How did, how did that inspireyour thinking about positive
classroom environment?
And where has it taken you now?
Kei (09:57):
So I've been teaching for 14 years.
And so listening to what youwere sharing about, I think I'm
funny or like I'm trying thisactivity that the kids think is
kind of cute, but aren't reallylike getting totally resonates
because that was me, you know,all all along.
But like Ben said, My thinkingaround building positive
classroom environments reallykind of changed.
(10:18):
My husband and I adopted our dogin April 2020, and she is, you
know, a pandemic pup, didn't getout much and has what you might
call fear based reactivity,which is she's scared of other
dogs.
And it comes across as she'llbark and lunge on the leash, and
it's her way of saying, like,I'm afraid, so stay away from
(10:38):
me.
She's trying to, you know, getdistance.
she is a large dog, and I am asmall human.
And I was like, I need to find away to, like, stop this, right?
And so I went down the rabbithole of following Dog trainers
on social media and trying tofigure out what can I do in the
middle of a pandemic where wecan't go out and, you know, do
(10:59):
things in person.
so I kind of stumbled acrosswhat is called positive
reinforcement, or sometimes it'sspelled R plus all sometimes
called force free.
And it's a.
It's a way of training, but it'smore than just a training
method.
So it's not just a fun, like,thing that you do.
It's, I really started to thinkthat it's like a philosophy.
(11:23):
It's a way of thinking.
Some people call it a whole wayof being.
that really shifts your mindsetand how we approach building
classroom environments.
In dog training, it's this wholephilosophy that you prioritize
the learner, in this case theanimal's welfare.
It really emphasizingunderstanding the animal's needs
and contexts, and it puts a hugeburden on the dog owner, the dog
(11:46):
trainer, our context asteachers.
the instructor, it puts theburden on us to stay curious and
be able to identify what is thebehavior that we're seeing.
What are the contexts wherewe're seeing that behavior?
What are the skills that thelearner is lacking that I, the
instructor, need to proactivelyteach?
(12:07):
And how do I set up the entireenvironment to predispose that
learner for success?
And then the positive part isyou are rewarding the desired
behaviors.
So a lot of this is very similarto PBIS, which I know is more
common in elementary schools,but it's Positive Behaviors
Intervention Supports.
And it really focuses on a lotof these same concepts, welfare
(12:30):
or, you know, social emotionallearning.
I just want to mention positivereinforcement in the dog
training world has a lot ofcrossover with like large animal
trainers.
The, there's a lot of sources ofpeople who like train dolphins
to detect underwater mines forthe US Navy, or people who work
in zoos and train, you know, thelions and tigers and bears, oh
(12:50):
my, to, you know, like come gettheir teeth cleaned or things
like that.
You can't use force against biganimals like that and fun fact
people think cats areuntrainable but it's just that
cats don't learn from punishmentand we live in a very punishment
or you know compliance basedsociety so this is a big shift
(13:11):
thinking about How do we set upthe environment?
How do we look at the wholecontext and not just like stop
that behavior?
Stop what you're doing?
But I think like Bill said, it'sabout what do I want you to do
instead, right?
Teaching those behaviors.
So for me, positivereinforcement training for my
dog has really helped meconsider if I'm willing to do
(13:33):
all of this for my dog, and thenI walk in my classroom and I'm
like, Whoa, that is like notwhat I'm doing with my human
students.
It was, it took a lot ofthinking and a lot of self
reflection.
It takes a lot of humility,right?
Like you try something new andyou take.
Or I find myself falling backinto the, these old practices
(13:57):
of, you know, you're doingsomething I, you know, you use
proximity or redirection or oneon ones, or if it's escalating,
you send them to the office, youput in a referral or you're
contacting families, but none ofthat really addresses the, why
is the student doing this?
Behavior is a communication of aneed.
What is the need that's notgetting met?
(14:18):
And how do I, as the teacher,help?
address that as best I can.
So, that's kind of the whole bigpicture of what got me going on
this.
FishRod (14:28):
Incredible.
I'm thinking about I wrote downa couple of things that you had
said.
And the first thing is that fearbased reactivity.
And I.
I think of sometimes thereactions that I see in students
when we start using, forinstance, high levels of target
language is that, you know,like, it is so unusual from
their nature, which is to speaktheir native language, right?
Or to speak the language ofschools, you know, English.
(14:49):
To just be like, no, in here, Ionly do this.
And I think that becauselanguage is so fundamental to
our identities, I could see afear based reaction to that.
And so I think that some of thebehaviors that we see early on,
like in, in lower level courseswith novices who don't have a
lot of language in their system,yeah, it could be a fear.
And you know, preparing for thatand accommodating for that is
(15:10):
going to make that outcome a lotbetter for them as well as for
the vibe in your class.
bill (15:15):
Yeah.
Something that I was thinkingabout earlier today was, I know
there's like.
Different different opinions onwhether or not to use like bell
ringers, do nows, whatever.
I think though that it can begentle way to ease the students
into the language for the day.
Like just kind of a reminderlike, hey, we're in Spanish
(15:37):
class.
I was thinking about how I wasto do more retrieval practice,
and why is it important that youdon't back at your notes during
that time?
I was like, because I want youto see, I want you to get back
into the space.
I want you to start using yourSpanish brain pull the, pull out
what you can, and then, so wecan get into class and today I,
(16:01):
Like reused what they did thebell ringer for, like, it was
like a, what do you rememberfrom the other day?
And then they use that thosesummary sentences later.
and I thought that was kind oflike a model that I should try
to do more.
Not only here, get into, yourhead into the right space for
(16:22):
class, but also let's make sureto bring that back as well to
that like you brought in isuseful.
FishRod (16:30):
So once you identified this, like as a system and a
philosophy, and I can attest viapersonal experience that Kay's
dog is very lovely and a sweetangel baby from heaven.
So when, when you startedthinking about training.
baby raven in this way.
And then applying kind of those,those lessons learned to your
classes.
Where did that take you?
Kei (16:50):
Yeah.
I mean, a simple example wouldbe, like you, I'm sure we've all
had it, like the kid who, you'relike, okay, it's time to write,
and the student walks up andgoes to sharpen their pencil and
talks to, you know, 1, 800people on their way over, which
is a feat when you have 36 inthe room.
And so, maybe you're talking tothis kid about, you know, please
stop disrupting class, you know.
(17:11):
Whatever, right?
And maybe the student does thisall the time.
Maybe nothing you're trying isworking, right?
Even if you're like, go sharpenyour pencil and sit down, don't
talk to other people.
so, thinking about, you know,helping Raven with her
reactivity, and then thinkingabout my student, it would be
like approaching this withcuriosity.
(17:32):
So in dog training positivereinforcement, they talk about
the ABCs.
the A is the antecedent.
What is the context or like thetrigger that is causing the
behavior?
So for the student it would be,you have to figure it out, but
maybe it's that you're askingthem to write, right?
So maybe you have to talk to theother teachers that the student
(17:52):
has, and you find out the kid isdoing this in all their classes.
But if you only label the kidas, quote, disruptive, or,
quote, defiant for not whatyou're saying, you would not
really be able to identify theantecedent.
The context where this behaviorshows up is you're asking them
to write.
And the behavior is they'remaybe avoiding the task, they're
getting their peers attention.
(18:14):
They've got your attention whilethey're talking to you, and they
end up not having to write, orthey're losing out on writing
time, so they don't have towrite as much, and so maybe You
know, that's the consequence.
That would be the C, and that'snot like a negative consequence,
but they're getting somethingout of that behavior, it's
rewarding them.
So it's a self perpetuatingcycle.
So the teacher, like, maybe youcan identify if this only
(18:37):
happens when I'm asking the kidto write and not when I'm asking
them to turn to a partner andtalk.
Maybe this behavior is showingup because they lack confidence
or they lack skills and beingable to write.
And so the intervention would beproviding the student with
scaffolds or having them partnerup or, you know, having them do.
Provide sentence stems and dobrainstorming and then they get
that social interaction byturning to a partner and sharing
(18:59):
ideas Before they have to sitdown and write and so for me
Working with my dog and beinglike what are your what's your
emotional state?
And what's the underlyingreasons that you're acting like
this instead of just beingannoyed or embarrassed that he's
doing this in public and thenbeing able to transfer that to
my My human students to be like,everything that you're doing
(19:22):
most likely not to annoy me,right?
It has nothing to do with me.
For the most part, I believe mystudents are, you know, not
malicious staying up at nightplotting ways to bother me.
So for, for me, that's kind ofthe mindset and it does take a
lot of energy to, to not justfall back on the, will you just
sit down?
Will you just stop talking?
(19:43):
But really trying to figure outwhat it is.
that the kid is trying to getout of what they're doing.
FishRod (19:48):
I love the, the thoughtfulness and the
reflection that is inherent inthat, that is an important part
of our profession generally.
But turning that sort ofgenerosity and thought towards
the humans in front of us issuper important.
And I think it's easy to getcaught up in.
The nitty gritty of lessonplanning and what language was
used in, quote, Todd, insteadof, you know, thinking about the
little humans in front of usevery day.
(20:10):
Please, please, ungatekeep forus, your advice if we want to
make classroom environments thatare positive for students, that
are thoughtful and reflectiveand responsive what are some
things that we can do?
Kei (20:21):
One thing to consider in all of this is that when we are
thinking about our learners andprioritizing their welfare and
well being, really aboutfocusing on our relationship
between them as the learner andus as the teacher.
And I really feel like thiscomes from a place of love, and
it can't be from a place of,like, compliance, or do this
(20:45):
because I am the teacher, dothis because I say so.
Do this because I have the powerin our relationship.
And so again, this whole idea ofpositive reinforcement training
and dogs to me is really similarto like trauma based instruction
or culturally responsiveteaching.
And it really comes from a placeof.
(21:05):
Prioritizing that relationship.
And really wanting the welfareof that individual.
And it's not positivereinforcement isn't just a
technique that's going to likequote work.
It's not just a tool, which wehave lots of tools in our
toolbox.
But thinking about, you know,what has worked and what I've
learned, positive reinforcementbeing a mindset, right?
(21:26):
A way of being how I show up inthe world in my classroom.
and foremost is reminding myselfthat I am a teacher in our
existing system, and there arethings that I cannot control and
that I cannot change.
So approaching this with A senseof grace and just understanding
I'm going to be trying things.
It's different for me, and it'sreally different for the
(21:48):
students.
They may not respond right awaybecause they'll have no idea.
They're like, what the heck areyou doing?
This is odd.
Right?
I think some ideas to considerfirst is really focusing on
building a democratic classroom.
So positive reinforcement dogtraining focuses on encouraging
the dog's agency and choice.
(22:08):
Dogs are, you know, captiveanimals.
They're pets, but we humans geta lot to decide.
about.
And students in our classroomshave some parallels.
There's a lot of things theydon't have control over.
So building that foundation andthat environment from the first
day, you know, things like cocreating classroom agreements
setting up self service stationsfor supplies.
(22:28):
I have recently learned thisfrom a colleague that just like
blows my mind.
Why should a student have to askme where the tape is or if they
can get another pencil?
If they know where those thingsare, it can build their own
sense of, oh, I know how to dothis and I can do it on my own.
and then teaching routines,right?
Where do you turn in yourpapers?
Where's the hall room pass?
When can you take breaks?
Even just letting students knowthat they can advocate for
(22:51):
themselves.
Like I tell my students if youare having a bad day, please
tell me and I can not call onyou.
You can sit outside of thecircle.
You can, you know, only workwith preferred people for the
day.
Really being proactive aboutmaking sure our students I think
that they have agency and beingable to access that, I think is
like one major starting point.
(23:13):
Another one, that comes from,you know, thinking about an
individual's welfare, is justthink about basic needs, right?
Do you have policies in yourclassroom for students?
Are they allowed to eat ordrink?
Can they not?
students, I have fans in my roomand students know that they can
go turn them on or turn them offand they can make the fans like
a tornado or they can make themreally like not windy.
(23:35):
So they have control over all ofthat within reason.
And then just some of theneuroscience right?
Students, I've heard they havelike an attention span that's
about one minute per their, howold they are.
So if you're lecturing for 20minutes, that's too long.
Building and movement breaks, ofcourse, hitting all the
different skill areas.
Balancing group activitiesversus individual activities.
(23:58):
And then, as the teacher, it'smy job to accommodate these
needs proactively from theplanning stage.
So fail is when I don't thinkabout that until in the moment,
and then I get flustered andyou're like, I don't know what
to do, this isn't working.
And just being intentional aboutthat from the beginning.
ABCs.
So really staying curious.
I know when I'm getting agitatedby a student's behavior, it's
(24:20):
super easy to just react and belike, Why are you doing that?
Why don't you just but reallystepping back and thinking about
what is causing the behavior?
What is the context?
What exactly is it that thestudent is doing and trying to
be as descriptive as possible?
And then what is theconsequence?
Like, what is the studentgetting?
That they might want.
(24:42):
And I found in my district, we,or my school, we have to fill
out forms for students on IEPswhen we're behavior tracking.
A lot of this is useful for anystudent where I'm seeing some
sort of behaviors that I wouldlike to not see.
But it helps me to stay curiousand ask these questions.
Two more is I have a hashtag onmy Instagram that's hashtag my
(25:03):
students are dogs and a subtitleand so are yours.
But in the best of ways dogsdon't have morals.
They don't know right fromwrong.
Right?
I like to think of my studentsas, again, not doing things
intentionally to annoy me, orthey don't stay up at night
plotting the destruction of myself esteem.
(25:25):
like, young children also don'thave morals.
We have to teach them that,right?
Older students.
They're supposed to know, butwe're also part of their
continuing education of what isright and wrong and acceptable
and not.
And so, reminding myself toconsider my students behavior
from a very neutral lens.
Even when they're really angry,I had a student say, I hate your
effing class.
(25:46):
You know, leave me the f beliefalone.
And I was able to just be like,wow, it sounds like you're
having a really hard time.
I don't appreciate you sayingthat to me.
Let's go out and talk about it.
But reminding myself that hadnothing to do with me.
He had so much going on.
And something else wasmotivating his behavior, right?
It had nothing.
It was not me.
so reminding myself that I'm theadult in the room, and.
(26:08):
I have the fully developedprefrontal cortex.
I need to control my ownemotions.
Otherwise, I can't expect mystudents to do that.
my response in that moment,like, says more about who I am
than about what they just did.
anything that I do in responseto a student's behavior can
either strengthen ourrelationship or damage it.
(26:29):
And again, if I'm prioritizingmy relationships with my
students, as part of thatpositive classroom environment,
that's where I really need tospend all my energy.
And then the last tip is beingwilling to stay self reflective,
like you're trying somethingnew.
And we want our students to takerisks and make mistakes and
(26:50):
learn from those mistakes.
And if we are not willing to dothe same, like we'll never,
we'll never be able to keeppushing ourselves and growing.
So, you know, if somethingdoesn't work, I have to ask
myself, what?
Could I have done differently?
How could I have set up theenvironment or structure that
activity to encourage studentsuccess?
(27:10):
Or how can I back up and reteachthat skill?
If a student is failing a task,rather than blaming them, the
student is lazy, they'reunmotivated, they don't care.
Maybe asking myself, was it toohard?
Was it too confusing?
What barriers did that student,that individual student have
that they couldn't overcome andhow can I help them?
then, you know, it's happened.
(27:31):
We can't take risks as teachersexcept in front of an audience,
which is really scary.
but if an entire lesson hasfalls flat, like don't blame
yourself.
ask myself, what barriers did Inot anticipate facing that
prevented me from beingsuccessful?
And then reminding myself, Ihave a huge network of support,
(27:52):
who can I turn to to bounce someideas off of or get some support
for myself?
FishRod (27:58):
If you do that enough, you might accidentally start a
podcast.
Again, speaking from experience.
Thank you so much for this.
I, this is my brain is worryingand I'm taking little notes on
my notebook in front of me.
I think I started thinking aboutsome problems in quotation marks
that I've been having andstarted kind of trying to
reframe through this positive.
I'm thinking of things likeblurting in English, they don't
(28:18):
know what to say in the targetlanguage, they don't know how to
contribute in the targetlanguage.
Can you give them something likea rejoinder to say, or, you
know, even just the sentence tosay, you know, sentence frames,
sentence starters, those sortsof things and keep them readily
available.
So they can lean on them.
Maybe they have them in theirnotebook in front of them.
Maybe they're posted on thewalls, that sort of, or just
part of the activity.
But I think also the, the otherone that has been making me
(28:39):
confused lately has been the,know, I say, turn and talk to
your partner about this andeither come to a decision or
find some commonalities, thatsort of thing.
And they just like won't.
And I'm like, huh?
And sometimes I, I, I've hadsome more success by being like.
Oh, they don't know how to likeinitiate a conversation like
with someone they don't know.
Right.
And they feel that not knowingthem is a barrier to having the
(29:00):
conversation at all.
So they just don't and both ofthem are like an agreement that
that's the better outcome.
Like, like, it's fine.
We, I didn't want to talk toanyone.
I didn't know.
So, like, it's chill that wejust sit next to each other.
And so, you know, scripting forthem, yeah.
Hello, how are you today?
Oh, I'm good, thank you.
How are you?
You know, then they have like,the, the wheel is greased a
little bit so that when theyact, the actual, actual question
(29:21):
I'm trying to get them to askthat they like, have already
started a conversation and theydon't have to, be the one to get
the momentum and maybe evenstarting the entire class saying
those words that the exact sametime, so that there's no, you
know, no escape escape what aresome, what are some other girl
bosses that we came out and cameout of K's gatekeeping,
ungatekeeping,
bill (29:40):
Like, finding out the antecedent of some behaviors,
like I know that this year I'vehad some classes not be as
participatory as I would likethem to be.
And something that I've veryrecently started, so I don't
have the habit yet, but likewhen I ask an open ended
question and I don't get anyresponses, instead of just
(30:05):
waiting for someone to justspeak up, I finally have started
asking like, Oh, like, is itlike una de like lack of words,
or una falta de ideas?
A lack of ideas, because eitherone I can help with, but let me
know which one, where theproblem is.
FishRod (30:25):
Yeah, I think in justifying our own behaviors,
like we're asking these openended questions or we're asking,
you know, maybe if you're askinga whole class core question that
we're doing it for a reason, if,and you know, I've, I've said
something to the effect too oflike, When you don't respond, I
either think that you're justreally tired and you're just
trying to try to, like, notrespond, or I think you don't
get it.
And so I'm going to ask again,just to be clear, which 1 of
(30:47):
those 1s it is.
And usually the call response isway stronger because they, you
know, you know, they got theinertia of just not responding.
Right?
So, yeah, the curiosity and the,but also explaining the
curiosity, like, I'm interestedin that thing you just did,
kiddos.
Like what's what's going onhere?
Bryan (31:01):
I think that in terms of like my classroom management and
things like that, like just whatyou were saying about just
trying to understand theantecedent and being curious
about like what is causing thestudent to do whatever they're
doing has really helped a lotbecause I, you know, I remember
a time a long time ago whereit's just like, it's the rule,
(31:22):
you have to do what I say andthe teacher or whatever,
whatever, because that's what myteachers did.
But then I think just more inrecent years, I've just been
like, Before I say something, Ihave to, like, stop myself and,
like, just wonder what could begoing on for that student or,
like, I might even prepare,like, some questions I might ask
them if I have to pull them outin the hall or something like
that.
(31:43):
And I often what I do now is,like, I'll take, like, if I do
have to take a student out, forexample.
I will just say, first of all,why have I talked, why, why, why
have I taken you out of theclassroom?
And I have them, like, kind of,nine times out of ten, they know
what they did.
And then I just ask morequestions.
So, like, do you think that wasa good idea?
Is that helping, you know, isthis making this a fun class for
(32:07):
everyone?
Is this helping you learn ornot?
And usually they can come upwith the answers on their own.
And it's just, it's so, it feelsso much less confrontational.
And so I think that has helped.
It's contributed to justbuilding better relationships
with my students because I'venever, I haven't had a power
struggle with a student in,like, years,
FishRod (32:26):
in the world I used to work in, a summer camp world and
they likened a power struggle toessentially like a tug of war
with a rope.
and you just have to drop therope.
You just have to let it go.
Right?
Like, you just have to say,, I'mnot going to be party to this,
petty squabble.
I'm just going to appeal totheir reason as like a human
person and be like, I think, youknow, that the government pays
me to teach you German or Frenchor Spanish or Japanese.
(32:48):
And like, when this happens inclass, I can't really do that.
And you know, kids are like, ohyeah, like totally that.
It's like, you can't really, butif it was like, you offended my
sensibilities as like a human,and I think you should know what
to do.
It's like, yeah, you're notgoing to like, sure.
Like, but then, you know,students might interpret it as,
like, you yelling at them, asopposed to having a conversation
(33:08):
with them and then what doesthat get is that they come away
from the class being like, well,the teacher yelled at me today
even if you said things thatwere literally true that you
witnessed with your eyes.
No, I wasn't talking well.
That's interesting because myauditory senses said otherwise
while also looking at you andseeing your mouth move.
But do you want to win thatbattle?
Like, do you want to have, doyou want to like punk a 15 year
(33:29):
old and like, got him, like,maybe examine that need in
yourself as well.
bill (33:33):
I'm taking this class called Leadership as Reflective
Practice.
So, Been a lot on my mind.
And so like some practices thatmaybe could be good to share
with everyone and especiallykind of like in, in this moment,
these.
Kind of like tense moments,especially or potential for
tense tension.
(33:53):
The different categories that wecan like reflect into are like,
am I being mindful of thesituation?
Did I take a moment first to,before I responded like self
awareness, like, am I aware ofmyself?
Am I angry right now?
Is that going to come out inthis interaction?
(34:14):
Checking our attitudes, where amI taking taking this in a
positive way, am I, am I tryingto take it in a negative way,
creativity?
Like, do I have to take astraightforward response to this
or can I figure out analternative way?
then finally, which I think.
really what's kind of beenhelping me a lot recently.
(34:36):
It's being true to yourself andlike actually finding out who
you are and, what is it that isokay.
And what is not okay.
to you in this learningenvironment where you're trying
to teach students.
And and I've just been likevery, very reflective on this
recently, and it's helped me bevery calm.
(34:57):
It's helped me accept like,yeah, not every single day is
going to be, bright and shinyand being reflective on the
environment that we are settingup for our students.
So on that, do you by, do youthink you have any potential
guiding questions that you usewhen you're thinking about a
(35:18):
situation in class?
Kei (35:20):
I would say it's still not automatic for me.
A lot of times this reflectionfor me happens after the moment,
right?
Like in the moment something hashappened, maybe I'm trying to
just reduce harm, like respondin a way that is reminding the
student I care about them,prioritizing our relationship,
but also giving me space to stepback.
And think about it.
So sometimes these questions arein the shower later that night
(35:43):
or me trying to go to bed and Iwas like, Oh my God, I think I,
I understand.
Right.
But a lot of times, I like whatBrian said about, you know, if
you have to pull a kid in thehallway, or if you're giving
them that space for one on one,approaching it with a, you tell
me what, hm, can you tell mewhat's going on right now?
Right?
Inviting them into thatconversation, reminding them
(36:04):
they have agency, and I'm notjust there to, like, smack them
down about what they did thatwas wrong.
And, you know, if I have thatconversation with that student,
great, because then that's thequestion I lead with.
Can you tell me why we're outhere?
Can you tell me what's going on?
If it's just me thinking about,okay, that kid is doing that
thing again.
Maybe trying to think about whatcan I do in the moment to
(36:26):
prevent them from disrupting theclass and giving them some space
so maybe they can figure outwhat they need.
I often will reach out to otherteachers and ask, Are you seeing
this specific behavior in yourdifferent classes?
But again, that starts with mebeing curious about what it is
that I'm seeing and trying to bedescriptive.
I think those are the questionsI might start with.
bill (36:48):
something that I've been trying to do with, Establishing
like a classroom, a positiveclassroom environment is
attaching the desired behaviorsor like the appropriate
behaviors to our school values.
And saying like, Hey, you allare insert mascot.
(37:09):
this is who you are when you'rehere.
And these are the things that weas a community have said that we
value and maybe we need toupdate them.
That's fine.
That happens.
All the time we update ourvalues, but when you started the
school year, you knew what, whatwe expected what kind of values
we have.
So like if if the value is likehonesty, yeah make sure that
(37:34):
you're like, it's not that youdon't cheat because cheating is
wrong.
don't cheat because that's not avalue that we hold.
Because that's dishonesty.
And I think I've seen somepositive improvements outcomes
from that.
Kei (37:51):
I love that idea of tying it to the school values.
I'm thinking about when we cocreate agreements, it could be
tied to something like that.
Like we agreed in our classroomthat looked this way.
Or if you have school values andyou build your Class agreements
around that.
Or like PBIS in my school, wehave safe, respectful,
responsible.
(38:12):
They're very broad categories,but defining them, what does
that look like to us?
And how do we show that we arethings?
I just think that helps with thebuy in.
It reminds the kids like youare, you are a part of the
environment, right?
You are the most important partof this environment in a lot of
ways.
bill (38:29):
And I I've given a few like example behaviors, which is
overwhelming.
But I try to say like, this isnot exhaustive.
These are just like some veryobservable things that I can do
for now.
And I need them to be observableright now so that we can, I can
see whether or not it'shappening.
Which I think I got that fromJohn Cowart And it has been
(38:53):
really game changing even justlike for instructions but also
for like your finger on the wordthat we're reading but also with
other behaviors.
So my question was how do youturn off that reflection when
you're at home?
Kei (39:10):
Another excellent question.
I, so am reading a kind of aside note.
I am reading the book Arise byElena Aguilar.
I'm doing a book study with theother curriculum specialist and
she is a consultant.
She teaches coaches how to coachteachers.
And her whole method is calledtransformative coaching.
(39:32):
She is a really big believer inyou have, your cup has to be
full before you can fill someoneelse's cup.
And we all deserve to thrive.
And so a lot of what I'm gettingfrom her book is that I need to
care of myself before I can tryto help taking care of others
even if you know Whether that'sme coaching other teachers or
like in our teaching context.
(39:54):
We're taking care of ourstudents So I come home and I
prioritize walking my dog Allcomes full circle, but the days
where I missed Walking raven,like I don't feel really good.
You know, the doctors are alllike go do exercise and get
fresh air and the doctors.
It's true.
FishRod (40:14):
It turns out they were right all along.
I know.
Yeah, I just got on a runningschedule and then I'm like, wow,
I feel better.
Turns out
Kei (40:21):
keeping that routine if I come home and make sure to take
care of myself.
me kind of compartmentalizeright we talked about having
routines for students to getinto the You know, our, our
language, I think for me, cominghome and being with my dog is
my, like, I am at home and Iturn it off.
but the routine helps, helps mewith that.
(40:43):
Because at a certain point,reflection just becomes like
self flagellation and that's nothelpful.
So I know we've talked a lotabout antecedents and, you know,
we the teacher have a lot ofpower in our classroom and a big
responsibility to think aboutwhat can we do to help our
students.
What can we do to set up theenvironment?
And as I've been talkingtonight, I think about some
(41:04):
students I have where, for them,the antecedent or the context
where these behavior shows up isschool.
in school is a major trigger fora lot of our students who are
carrying so much emotionalbaggage or trauma with them.
And so this goes back to havinggrace for ourselves.
Is there are things that Icannot control, and there are
(41:26):
things that are outside of my ofinfluence to be able to support
the student with so turning tocolleagues or turning to school
counselors or reaching out tothe students, families and
guardians about, you know, hey,these are the behaviors I'm
seeing in school.
This is what we're trying, know,what else?
What other types of supportsdoes the student have?
(41:48):
Just reminding myself that Ican't beat myself up about just
the fact that school is notwhere everyone is thriving.
And I can do what I can to helpthem in my little context.
But for some students, thatcontext where the behavior is,
is in school, in presence ofauthority figures.
So not to end on like kind of adown note, but reminding myself
(42:11):
there is a lot that I caninfluence and be positive.
And maybe that student willremember, you know, I do care
about them, even if they aren'tlearning Japanese.
might be like as much as they'reable to do, or as much as I'm
able to do for them.
And reminding myself of that, Ithink, is important.
Bryan (42:28):
Yeah, I mean, I don't think that's a downer at all.
I mean, I think that's a goodthing for all of us to remember,
like, right?
Like, we shouldn't really beputting, making ourselves feel
bad because we are notsuperheroes.
we are teachers, we do the bestwe can, what I think about a lot
is, like, what I want mystudents to remember is that I
cared about them, that they canlearn a language in some form or
(42:50):
another, and that it's importantto understand people who are
different.
So, if they can do that, youknow, down the line, I'm happy.
And that can get rid of a lotof, like, Yeah, just the angry
storm cloud over your head,thinking, like, constantly
second guessing yourself.
So I think we're just about atour time.
And so I wanted to thank you somuch for joining us.
(43:11):
It's been really great listeningto you and just sharing your
thoughts and throwing thingsback and forth about, like, how
we have seen trying to createmore positive classroom
environments in our owncontexts.
And, yeah, I've definitelylearned a lot.
FishRod (43:25):
Again, I, I, I, from a, from a personal perspective,
encourage people to seek outcolleagues to honor and nominate
for awards and to highlight thegood work that they do every day
that, you know, often goesunnoticed.
And I'm just so thankful for,for Kate for coming on and
slaying with us.
Kei (43:42):
Thanks for having me.
It's been awesome.
bill (43:45):
I
Bryan (43:46):
Wait.
bill (43:46):
glad this is recorded so I can listen to it a million
times.
Thanks.
Kei (43:50):
Thank you so much.
bill (43:53):
Bye.
Bryan (43:54):
Bye.
Kei (43:55):
Bye.
Hello, everybody, and welcome back to another episode
(00:02):
of Slay's Second LanguageAcquisition for Everyone.
are honored to have a specialguest today who is going to
share their wisdom and knowledgewith us and who was highlighted
as part of the Actual Teacher ofthe Year award.
Kate Tsukamaki is a WashingtonAssociation for Language
Teaching Teacher of the Year,the Pacific Northwest Council
for Languages Teacher of theYear.
(00:24):
And the Actful 2025 NationalLanguage Teacher of the Year.
Okay, we are so excited to haveyou as a guest on our podcast.
Hello, how are you?
Kei (00:33):
I'm doing really well.
Thank you so much for having mehere.
FishRod (00:36):
We are so pleased to have you on the podcast and
would love to put as a podcast,a plug in for the Teachers of
the Year programs.
These are great ways to get tomeet other educators to reflect
on your professional developmentand all sorts of things.
So if you know somebody who isreally crushing it out there,
nominate them for an award.
The best things that come of itare that they feel really
(00:57):
professionally embraced andhugged, from experience.
So, Kay, tell us a little bitabout your teaching career, how
you got to where you are now.
Kei (01:07):
Yeah, of course.
So I am third generationJapanese American, but I grew up
speaking only English at home.
So I was really fortunate tolearn both Spanish and Japanese
starting Spanish in middleschool and then taking Japanese
at high school and college.
So one of those people whoalways knew what I wanted to be,
and I've always wanted to be ateacher.
(01:29):
It was really, it's been reallygreat for me to be able to teach
Japanese.
I added my Spanish.
Spanish endorsement back in soI'm certified to teach both, but
currently I teach Japanese 1 APat a public high school, grades
9 12, in Kirkland, Washington,just northeast of Seattle.
FishRod (01:47):
Slay.
You also do some district levellanguage program coordination,
is that right?
Kei (01:53):
Yes this year I'm part time working at my district office,
helping support world languageteachers in all the programs
that we have in our district.
FishRod (02:02):
Amazing.
And then you are traveling thenation as the actual Teacher of
the Year for 2025.
How is that going so far?
Kei (02:10):
It's been really wonderful.
The first conference I went towas at the end of January.
I went to the Southwestconference down in Phoenix.
And like you were saying aboutthe whole actual Teacher of the
Year program, really the, one ofthe greatest parts of this is
getting to go around and meetother educators and learn from
them.
And these conferences are suchgreat opportunities to see
(02:30):
teachers who in very similarcontexts, but also teachers who
have very different contexts andbeing able to see what ideas
there are at all levels, right,from pre k up through
university.
the three other conferences arein March, and then PNCFL is in
April.
FishRod (02:48):
Yes, in Anchorage.
So that'll be lots of good fun.
So we invited you on the podcastbecause we know that you have a
lot of professional expertise toshare.
And you wanted to share with usabout creating positive
classroom environments.
And so Bill, Brian and I aregoing to guess light ourselves
or speak of how we havepreviously guessed that
ourselves in the process oftrying to create positive
(03:11):
classroom environments.
But maybe failing at that orcoming short of our ideals.
bill (03:17):
Sometimes, I guess, let myself into thinking I'm funny.
FishRod (03:20):
Sometimes humor does not come off
bill (03:22):
Yeah.
FishRod (03:23):
the developmental of your, your audience.
You know, sometimes sarcasmliterally doesn't register as
anything other than meanness.
And so you can think you'rehaving some fun bantering and a
student can take it superseriously.
So yeah, developmentalappropriateness, but also.
bill (03:38):
Yeah.
FishRod (03:39):
we are funny 100 percent of the time.
bill (03:41):
No, I was talking more like they're trying to make me
believe that I'm not funny and
Bryan (03:46):
are they failing or winning?
bill (03:49):
sometimes winning, sometimes failing, but I, I said
from the beginning of the yearto be cringes to be free.
And I am free.
FishRod (03:57):
I think that, I came in with a goodwill towards children
generally, which I think shouldperhaps be a prerequisite.
I don't know how exactly youwould certify that in an exam.
But I think I generally waslike, I do like working with
children, and like, I think thisis going to be great.
And I think that, In thebeginning, I assumed that I
could ride that goodwill andthat sort of feeling that I was
(04:19):
going to do a good job and that,you know, the vibes are going to
be immaculate because, you know,I'm good at banter and I have
fun and I was trying to make itdifferent from their language
classes or their other classesor whatever that, that that was
going to take me where I wantedto go.
And then you butt up against,you know Children are individual
human beings coming to theclassroom with a variety of
(04:40):
experiences.
And so some things worked, somethings didn't.
But I think the lack of, likeself awareness in the process
also me from making the positiveenvironment I wanted because I
thought it would just establishitself rather than me actually
taking steps to establish it.
bill (04:57):
Yeah, so I know that we've mentioned a couple of times on a
couple of different episodesabout how, like.
Students, at least like in mostof our context, where they're
starting to take language later,maybe in high school, middle
school or high school, like theyknow how to take a history
class.
They know how to take an Englishclass.
They know how to take a mathclass.
(05:17):
and.
I think, like, yeah, my, my bestintentions to, make my class be
the best version of that, of it,that it could be assumed that
they would be able to justeasily figure out this
completely wild and differentclass.
(05:38):
finding balance, and between,the seriousness, I'm doing air
quotes, the seriousness ofschool with, like, the
playfulness of language.
Bryan (05:47):
I think about when I tried to implement, like,
something I had seen while I wasstudying at the Concordia
Language Villages in Minnesota,shouts out to them where they
have language immersion programsfor a lot of different languages
In the summer and also thatduring the school year different
links, things like that.
Anyway, one of the things thatthey do is that students.
(06:09):
Children wear, like, a name tagwith their language name on it,
and by choosing to be, they callit different things in different
languages, but, like, languagemaster, essentially, it's like,
you get to wear, like, a speciallanyard that means that you
commit to only speaking thelanguage for a certain amount of
time, and I was like, that'sgreat, like, these kids seem
super pumped and motivated touse the language, and, like,
something about the idea thatthey are choosing to do it, it's
(06:31):
not something that's beingforced upon them,, seemed to be
in alignment with what I had Youknow, been taught about how
motivation should work in theorywith students.
And so I was like, I'm gonnatake this back to my classroom
and try it.
So I had them all make littlelanguage master, lanyards.
And I said, like, hey, if youwant to, you can put it on and
say, I'm committing to onlyspeaking in French during class.
(06:54):
And you know, maybe the morepeople do that, like, we can get
some class rewards or somethinglike that.
And it was a disaster.
I, you know, like, at the camps,they would do, like, a little
song when it was time to put iton, and, like, everyone's, like,
you know, in the groove, and,like, it was something, it's,
like, something cultural, right,something cultural was very
(07:14):
present there that, like, Youcan't really build from scratch.
I don't know if that makessense, but like, There were,
there were some students whowere just completely not into it
at all.
They didn't ever try.
Then there were other studentswho were only into it for the
singing part.
And then like, they'd put it onand then start speaking English
anyway.
And like, well, okay, well nowyou have to take it off.
And like, it just became toomuch to manage.
It just, it didn't work.
(07:35):
So I was like, we're not doingthis anymore.
And then it was funny because atsome point this school year, a
student was like, Hey, why don'twe do the language master thing
anymore?
I'm like, well, because itdidn't work.
And I could see the like wheelsturning in their head.
And I was like, yeah, it wasn'tjust a little fun song thing.
And I had actual reason fordoing it, you know?
And so I do think I still have apositive, generally positive
(07:56):
class culture.
It's just, I just know mystudents enough to know that
something like that doesn't workwith them.
So.
FishRod (08:04):
Yeah, come into interaction sometimes to
thinking that.
Students do know what it's forand why and like also how to do
stuff.
Like I've been talking to myfriend who is a teacher in
California as well.
And he's like, they misspelledthe name of the book in the, in
the report.
And I'm like, cause they do thatsometimes.
Or like, you know, it seemsobvious that you shouldn't, I
(08:24):
don't know, like smack eachother with the clipboard or
throw a book or something likethat.
And then they do it and you'relike.
seems obvious to me as, like, a,an adult who, you know,
acculturated them in this, like,professional environment sort of
situation.
They just, like, don't seem toknow the reasons, but that, you
know, sometimes also thespecific behaviors that we're
like, Oh, those are duhbehaviors, and then they don't
do it, and we're like, How darethey?
bill (08:46):
Yeah, something on that too with like gaslighting
ourselves is just only onlytelling students what not to do
rather than demonstrating whatto do.
And I might have a girl bossabout that later, but.
just these are the reasons whywe're doing,, I'm asking you to
do this because this and I'vehad a long standing thought that
(09:11):
students really want to know whywe're doing things just like the
long term, I can do this at theend of the year, but like, want
to know how it's buildingbecause we know just like people
in general, are very, tend to beshort sighted.
So what, what's in it for menow?
(09:31):
So trying to explain like, yeah,here's why we're doing this for
the longterm.
But in the short term, this iswhy it's important.
FishRod (09:39):
So, Kay, you proposed the idea of talking about
positive classroom environmentsand then also shared that some
of your thinking about thistopic came from an unlikely
source, which was dog trainingtake us on that journey.
How did, how did that inspireyour thinking about positive
classroom environment?
And where has it taken you now?
Kei (09:57):
So I've been teaching for 14 years.
And so listening to what youwere sharing about, I think I'm
funny or like I'm trying thisactivity that the kids think is
kind of cute, but aren't reallylike getting totally resonates
because that was me, you know,all all along.
But like Ben said, My thinkingaround building positive
classroom environments reallykind of changed.
(10:18):
My husband and I adopted our dogin April 2020, and she is, you
know, a pandemic pup, didn't getout much and has what you might
call fear based reactivity,which is she's scared of other
dogs.
And it comes across as she'llbark and lunge on the leash, and
it's her way of saying, like,I'm afraid, so stay away from
(10:38):
me.
She's trying to, you know, getdistance.
she is a large dog, and I am asmall human.
And I was like, I need to find away to, like, stop this, right?
And so I went down the rabbithole of following Dog trainers
on social media and trying tofigure out what can I do in the
middle of a pandemic where wecan't go out and, you know, do
(10:59):
things in person.
so I kind of stumbled acrosswhat is called positive
reinforcement, or sometimes it'sspelled R plus all sometimes
called force free.
And it's a.
It's a way of training, but it'smore than just a training
method.
So it's not just a fun, like,thing that you do.
It's, I really started to thinkthat it's like a philosophy.
(11:23):
It's a way of thinking.
Some people call it a whole wayof being.
that really shifts your mindsetand how we approach building
classroom environments.
In dog training, it's this wholephilosophy that you prioritize
the learner, in this case theanimal's welfare.
It really emphasizingunderstanding the animal's needs
and contexts, and it puts a hugeburden on the dog owner, the dog
(11:46):
trainer, our context asteachers.
the instructor, it puts theburden on us to stay curious and
be able to identify what is thebehavior that we're seeing.
What are the contexts wherewe're seeing that behavior?
What are the skills that thelearner is lacking that I, the
instructor, need to proactivelyteach?
(12:07):
And how do I set up the entireenvironment to predispose that
learner for success?
And then the positive part isyou are rewarding the desired
behaviors.
So a lot of this is very similarto PBIS, which I know is more
common in elementary schools,but it's Positive Behaviors
Intervention Supports.
And it really focuses on a lotof these same concepts, welfare
(12:30):
or, you know, social emotionallearning.
I just want to mention positivereinforcement in the dog
training world has a lot ofcrossover with like large animal
trainers.
The, there's a lot of sources ofpeople who like train dolphins
to detect underwater mines forthe US Navy, or people who work
in zoos and train, you know, thelions and tigers and bears, oh
(12:50):
my, to, you know, like come gettheir teeth cleaned or things
like that.
You can't use force against biganimals like that and fun fact
people think cats areuntrainable but it's just that
cats don't learn from punishmentand we live in a very punishment
or you know compliance basedsociety so this is a big shift
(13:11):
thinking about How do we set upthe environment?
How do we look at the wholecontext and not just like stop
that behavior?
Stop what you're doing?
But I think like Bill said, it'sabout what do I want you to do
instead, right?
Teaching those behaviors.
So for me, positivereinforcement training for my
dog has really helped meconsider if I'm willing to do
(13:33):
all of this for my dog, and thenI walk in my classroom and I'm
like, Whoa, that is like notwhat I'm doing with my human
students.
It was, it took a lot ofthinking and a lot of self
reflection.
It takes a lot of humility,right?
Like you try something new andyou take.
Or I find myself falling backinto the, these old practices
(13:57):
of, you know, you're doingsomething I, you know, you use
proximity or redirection or oneon ones, or if it's escalating,
you send them to the office, youput in a referral or you're
contacting families, but none ofthat really addresses the, why
is the student doing this?
Behavior is a communication of aneed.
What is the need that's notgetting met?
(14:18):
And how do I, as the teacher,help?
address that as best I can.
So, that's kind of the whole bigpicture of what got me going on
this.
FishRod (14:28):
Incredible.
I'm thinking about I wrote downa couple of things that you had
said.
And the first thing is that fearbased reactivity.
And I.
I think of sometimes thereactions that I see in students
when we start using, forinstance, high levels of target
language is that, you know,like, it is so unusual from
their nature, which is to speaktheir native language, right?
Or to speak the language ofschools, you know, English.
(14:49):
To just be like, no, in here, Ionly do this.
And I think that becauselanguage is so fundamental to
our identities, I could see afear based reaction to that.
And so I think that some of thebehaviors that we see early on,
like in, in lower level courseswith novices who don't have a
lot of language in their system,yeah, it could be a fear.
And you know, preparing for thatand accommodating for that is
(15:10):
going to make that outcome a lotbetter for them as well as for
the vibe in your class.
bill (15:15):
Yeah.
Something that I was thinkingabout earlier today was, I know
there's like.
Different different opinions onwhether or not to use like bell
ringers, do nows, whatever.
I think though that it can begentle way to ease the students
into the language for the day.
Like just kind of a reminderlike, hey, we're in Spanish
(15:37):
class.
I was thinking about how I wasto do more retrieval practice,
and why is it important that youdon't back at your notes during
that time?
I was like, because I want youto see, I want you to get back
into the space.
I want you to start using yourSpanish brain pull the, pull out
what you can, and then, so wecan get into class and today I,
(16:01):
Like reused what they did thebell ringer for, like, it was
like a, what do you rememberfrom the other day?
And then they use that thosesummary sentences later.
and I thought that was kind oflike a model that I should try
to do more.
Not only here, get into, yourhead into the right space for
(16:22):
class, but also let's make sureto bring that back as well to
that like you brought in isuseful.
FishRod (16:30):
So once you identified this, like as a system and a
philosophy, and I can attest viapersonal experience that Kay's
dog is very lovely and a sweetangel baby from heaven.
So when, when you startedthinking about training.
baby raven in this way.
And then applying kind of those,those lessons learned to your
classes.
Where did that take you?
Kei (16:50):
Yeah.
I mean, a simple example wouldbe, like you, I'm sure we've all
had it, like the kid who, you'relike, okay, it's time to write,
and the student walks up andgoes to sharpen their pencil and
talks to, you know, 1, 800people on their way over, which
is a feat when you have 36 inthe room.
And so, maybe you're talking tothis kid about, you know, please
stop disrupting class, you know.
(17:11):
Whatever, right?
And maybe the student does thisall the time.
Maybe nothing you're trying isworking, right?
Even if you're like, go sharpenyour pencil and sit down, don't
talk to other people.
so, thinking about, you know,helping Raven with her
reactivity, and then thinkingabout my student, it would be
like approaching this withcuriosity.
(17:32):
So in dog training positivereinforcement, they talk about
the ABCs.
the A is the antecedent.
What is the context or like thetrigger that is causing the
behavior?
So for the student it would be,you have to figure it out, but
maybe it's that you're askingthem to write, right?
So maybe you have to talk to theother teachers that the student
(17:52):
has, and you find out the kid isdoing this in all their classes.
But if you only label the kidas, quote, disruptive, or,
quote, defiant for not whatyou're saying, you would not
really be able to identify theantecedent.
The context where this behaviorshows up is you're asking them
to write.
And the behavior is they'remaybe avoiding the task, they're
getting their peers attention.
(18:14):
They've got your attention whilethey're talking to you, and they
end up not having to write, orthey're losing out on writing
time, so they don't have towrite as much, and so maybe You
know, that's the consequence.
That would be the C, and that'snot like a negative consequence,
but they're getting somethingout of that behavior, it's
rewarding them.
So it's a self perpetuatingcycle.
So the teacher, like, maybe youcan identify if this only
(18:37):
happens when I'm asking the kidto write and not when I'm asking
them to turn to a partner andtalk.
Maybe this behavior is showingup because they lack confidence
or they lack skills and beingable to write.
And so the intervention would beproviding the student with
scaffolds or having them partnerup or, you know, having them do.
Provide sentence stems and dobrainstorming and then they get
that social interaction byturning to a partner and sharing
(18:59):
ideas Before they have to sitdown and write and so for me
Working with my dog and beinglike what are your what's your
emotional state?
And what's the underlyingreasons that you're acting like
this instead of just beingannoyed or embarrassed that he's
doing this in public and thenbeing able to transfer that to
my My human students to be like,everything that you're doing
(19:22):
most likely not to annoy me,right?
It has nothing to do with me.
For the most part, I believe mystudents are, you know, not
malicious staying up at nightplotting ways to bother me.
So for, for me, that's kind ofthe mindset and it does take a
lot of energy to, to not justfall back on the, will you just
sit down?
Will you just stop talking?
(19:43):
But really trying to figure outwhat it is.
that the kid is trying to getout of what they're doing.
FishRod (19:48):
I love the, the thoughtfulness and the
reflection that is inherent inthat, that is an important part
of our profession generally.
But turning that sort ofgenerosity and thought towards
the humans in front of us issuper important.
And I think it's easy to getcaught up in.
The nitty gritty of lessonplanning and what language was
used in, quote, Todd, insteadof, you know, thinking about the
little humans in front of usevery day.
(20:10):
Please, please, ungatekeep forus, your advice if we want to
make classroom environments thatare positive for students, that
are thoughtful and reflectiveand responsive what are some
things that we can do?
Kei (20:21):
One thing to consider in all of this is that when we are
thinking about our learners andprioritizing their welfare and
well being, really aboutfocusing on our relationship
between them as the learner andus as the teacher.
And I really feel like thiscomes from a place of love, and
it can't be from a place of,like, compliance, or do this
(20:45):
because I am the teacher, dothis because I say so.
Do this because I have the powerin our relationship.
And so again, this whole idea ofpositive reinforcement training
and dogs to me is really similarto like trauma based instruction
or culturally responsiveteaching.
And it really comes from a placeof.
(21:05):
Prioritizing that relationship.
And really wanting the welfareof that individual.
And it's not positivereinforcement isn't just a
technique that's going to likequote work.
It's not just a tool, which wehave lots of tools in our
toolbox.
But thinking about, you know,what has worked and what I've
learned, positive reinforcementbeing a mindset, right?
(21:26):
A way of being how I show up inthe world in my classroom.
and foremost is reminding myselfthat I am a teacher in our
existing system, and there arethings that I cannot control and
that I cannot change.
So approaching this with A senseof grace and just understanding
I'm going to be trying things.
It's different for me, and it'sreally different for the
(21:48):
students.
They may not respond right awaybecause they'll have no idea.
They're like, what the heck areyou doing?
This is odd.
Right?
I think some ideas to considerfirst is really focusing on
building a democratic classroom.
So positive reinforcement dogtraining focuses on encouraging
the dog's agency and choice.
(22:08):
Dogs are, you know, captiveanimals.
They're pets, but we humans geta lot to decide.
about.
And students in our classroomshave some parallels.
There's a lot of things theydon't have control over.
So building that foundation andthat environment from the first
day, you know, things like cocreating classroom agreements
setting up self service stationsfor supplies.
(22:28):
I have recently learned thisfrom a colleague that just like
blows my mind.
Why should a student have to askme where the tape is or if they
can get another pencil?
If they know where those thingsare, it can build their own
sense of, oh, I know how to dothis and I can do it on my own.
and then teaching routines,right?
Where do you turn in yourpapers?
Where's the hall room pass?
When can you take breaks?
Even just letting students knowthat they can advocate for
(22:51):
themselves.
Like I tell my students if youare having a bad day, please
tell me and I can not call onyou.
You can sit outside of thecircle.
You can, you know, only workwith preferred people for the
day.
Really being proactive aboutmaking sure our students I think
that they have agency and beingable to access that, I think is
like one major starting point.
(23:13):
Another one, that comes from,you know, thinking about an
individual's welfare, is justthink about basic needs, right?
Do you have policies in yourclassroom for students?
Are they allowed to eat ordrink?
Can they not?
students, I have fans in my roomand students know that they can
go turn them on or turn them offand they can make the fans like
a tornado or they can make themreally like not windy.
(23:35):
So they have control over all ofthat within reason.
And then just some of theneuroscience right?
Students, I've heard they havelike an attention span that's
about one minute per their, howold they are.
So if you're lecturing for 20minutes, that's too long.
Building and movement breaks, ofcourse, hitting all the
different skill areas.
Balancing group activitiesversus individual activities.
(23:58):
And then, as the teacher, it'smy job to accommodate these
needs proactively from theplanning stage.
So fail is when I don't thinkabout that until in the moment,
and then I get flustered andyou're like, I don't know what
to do, this isn't working.
And just being intentional aboutthat from the beginning.
ABCs.
So really staying curious.
I know when I'm getting agitatedby a student's behavior, it's
(24:20):
super easy to just react and belike, Why are you doing that?
Why don't you just but reallystepping back and thinking about
what is causing the behavior?
What is the context?
What exactly is it that thestudent is doing and trying to
be as descriptive as possible?
And then what is theconsequence?
Like, what is the studentgetting?
That they might want.
(24:42):
And I found in my district, we,or my school, we have to fill
out forms for students on IEPswhen we're behavior tracking.
A lot of this is useful for anystudent where I'm seeing some
sort of behaviors that I wouldlike to not see.
But it helps me to stay curiousand ask these questions.
Two more is I have a hashtag onmy Instagram that's hashtag my
(25:03):
students are dogs and a subtitleand so are yours.
But in the best of ways dogsdon't have morals.
They don't know right fromwrong.
Right?
I like to think of my studentsas, again, not doing things
intentionally to annoy me, orthey don't stay up at night
plotting the destruction of myself esteem.
(25:25):
like, young children also don'thave morals.
We have to teach them that,right?
Older students.
They're supposed to know, butwe're also part of their
continuing education of what isright and wrong and acceptable
and not.
And so, reminding myself toconsider my students behavior
from a very neutral lens.
Even when they're really angry,I had a student say, I hate your
effing class.
(25:46):
You know, leave me the f beliefalone.
And I was able to just be like,wow, it sounds like you're
having a really hard time.
I don't appreciate you sayingthat to me.
Let's go out and talk about it.
But reminding myself that hadnothing to do with me.
He had so much going on.
And something else wasmotivating his behavior, right?
It had nothing.
It was not me.
so reminding myself that I'm theadult in the room, and.
(26:08):
I have the fully developedprefrontal cortex.
I need to control my ownemotions.
Otherwise, I can't expect mystudents to do that.
my response in that moment,like, says more about who I am
than about what they just did.
anything that I do in responseto a student's behavior can
either strengthen ourrelationship or damage it.
(26:29):
And again, if I'm prioritizingmy relationships with my
students, as part of thatpositive classroom environment,
that's where I really need tospend all my energy.
And then the last tip is beingwilling to stay self reflective,
like you're trying somethingnew.
And we want our students to takerisks and make mistakes and
(26:50):
learn from those mistakes.
And if we are not willing to dothe same, like we'll never,
we'll never be able to keeppushing ourselves and growing.
So, you know, if somethingdoesn't work, I have to ask
myself, what?
Could I have done differently?
How could I have set up theenvironment or structure that
activity to encourage studentsuccess?
(27:10):
Or how can I back up and reteachthat skill?
If a student is failing a task,rather than blaming them, the
student is lazy, they'reunmotivated, they don't care.
Maybe asking myself, was it toohard?
Was it too confusing?
What barriers did that student,that individual student have
that they couldn't overcome andhow can I help them?
then, you know, it's happened.
(27:31):
We can't take risks as teachersexcept in front of an audience,
which is really scary.
but if an entire lesson hasfalls flat, like don't blame
yourself.
ask myself, what barriers did Inot anticipate facing that
prevented me from beingsuccessful?
And then reminding myself, Ihave a huge network of support,
(27:52):
who can I turn to to bounce someideas off of or get some support
for myself?
FishRod (27:58):
If you do that enough, you might accidentally start a
podcast.
Again, speaking from experience.
Thank you so much for this.
I, this is my brain is worryingand I'm taking little notes on
my notebook in front of me.
I think I started thinking aboutsome problems in quotation marks
that I've been having andstarted kind of trying to
reframe through this positive.
I'm thinking of things likeblurting in English, they don't
(28:18):
know what to say in the targetlanguage, they don't know how to
contribute in the targetlanguage.
Can you give them something likea rejoinder to say, or, you
know, even just the sentence tosay, you know, sentence frames,
sentence starters, those sortsof things and keep them readily
available.
So they can lean on them.
Maybe they have them in theirnotebook in front of them.
Maybe they're posted on thewalls, that sort of, or just
part of the activity.
But I think also the, the otherone that has been making me
(28:39):
confused lately has been the,know, I say, turn and talk to
your partner about this andeither come to a decision or
find some commonalities, thatsort of thing.
And they just like won't.
And I'm like, huh?
And sometimes I, I, I've hadsome more success by being like.
Oh, they don't know how to likeinitiate a conversation like
with someone they don't know.
Right.
And they feel that not knowingthem is a barrier to having the
(29:00):
conversation at all.
So they just don't and both ofthem are like an agreement that
that's the better outcome.
Like, like, it's fine.
We, I didn't want to talk toanyone.
I didn't know.
So, like, it's chill that wejust sit next to each other.
And so, you know, scripting forthem, yeah.
Hello, how are you today?
Oh, I'm good, thank you.
How are you?
You know, then they have like,the, the wheel is greased a
little bit so that when theyact, the actual, actual question
(29:21):
I'm trying to get them to askthat they like, have already
started a conversation and theydon't have to, be the one to get
the momentum and maybe evenstarting the entire class saying
those words that the exact sametime, so that there's no, you
know, no escape escape what aresome, what are some other girl
bosses that we came out and cameout of K's gatekeeping,
ungatekeeping,
bill (29:40):
Like, finding out the antecedent of some behaviors,
like I know that this year I'vehad some classes not be as
participatory as I would likethem to be.
And something that I've veryrecently started, so I don't
have the habit yet, but likewhen I ask an open ended
question and I don't get anyresponses, instead of just
(30:05):
waiting for someone to justspeak up, I finally have started
asking like, Oh, like, is itlike una de like lack of words,
or una falta de ideas?
A lack of ideas, because eitherone I can help with, but let me
know which one, where theproblem is.
FishRod (30:25):
Yeah, I think in justifying our own behaviors,
like we're asking these openended questions or we're asking,
you know, maybe if you're askinga whole class core question that
we're doing it for a reason, if,and you know, I've, I've said
something to the effect too oflike, When you don't respond, I
either think that you're justreally tired and you're just
trying to try to, like, notrespond, or I think you don't
get it.
And so I'm going to ask again,just to be clear, which 1 of
(30:47):
those 1s it is.
And usually the call response isway stronger because they, you
know, you know, they got theinertia of just not responding.
Right?
So, yeah, the curiosity and the,but also explaining the
curiosity, like, I'm interestedin that thing you just did,
kiddos.
Like what's what's going onhere?
Bryan (31:01):
I think that in terms of like my classroom management and
things like that, like just whatyou were saying about just
trying to understand theantecedent and being curious
about like what is causing thestudent to do whatever they're
doing has really helped a lotbecause I, you know, I remember
a time a long time ago whereit's just like, it's the rule,
(31:22):
you have to do what I say andthe teacher or whatever,
whatever, because that's what myteachers did.
But then I think just more inrecent years, I've just been
like, Before I say something, Ihave to, like, stop myself and,
like, just wonder what could begoing on for that student or,
like, I might even prepare,like, some questions I might ask
them if I have to pull them outin the hall or something like
that.
(31:43):
And I often what I do now is,like, I'll take, like, if I do
have to take a student out, forexample.
I will just say, first of all,why have I talked, why, why, why
have I taken you out of theclassroom?
And I have them, like, kind of,nine times out of ten, they know
what they did.
And then I just ask morequestions.
So, like, do you think that wasa good idea?
Is that helping, you know, isthis making this a fun class for
(32:07):
everyone?
Is this helping you learn ornot?
And usually they can come upwith the answers on their own.
And it's just, it's so, it feelsso much less confrontational.
And so I think that has helped.
It's contributed to justbuilding better relationships
with my students because I'venever, I haven't had a power
struggle with a student in,like, years,
FishRod (32:26):
in the world I used to work in, a summer camp world and
they likened a power struggle toessentially like a tug of war
with a rope.
and you just have to drop therope.
You just have to let it go.
Right?
Like, you just have to say,, I'mnot going to be party to this,
petty squabble.
I'm just going to appeal totheir reason as like a human
person and be like, I think, youknow, that the government pays
me to teach you German or Frenchor Spanish or Japanese.
(32:48):
And like, when this happens inclass, I can't really do that.
And you know, kids are like, ohyeah, like totally that.
It's like, you can't really, butif it was like, you offended my
sensibilities as like a human,and I think you should know what
to do.
It's like, yeah, you're notgoing to like, sure.
Like, but then, you know,students might interpret it as,
like, you yelling at them, asopposed to having a conversation
(33:08):
with them and then what doesthat get is that they come away
from the class being like, well,the teacher yelled at me today
even if you said things thatwere literally true that you
witnessed with your eyes.
No, I wasn't talking well.
That's interesting because myauditory senses said otherwise
while also looking at you andseeing your mouth move.
But do you want to win thatbattle?
Like, do you want to have, doyou want to like punk a 15 year
(33:29):
old and like, got him, like,maybe examine that need in
yourself as well.
bill (33:33):
I'm taking this class called Leadership as Reflective
Practice.
So, Been a lot on my mind.
And so like some practices thatmaybe could be good to share
with everyone and especiallykind of like in, in this moment,
these.
Kind of like tense moments,especially or potential for
tense tension.
(33:53):
The different categories that wecan like reflect into are like,
am I being mindful of thesituation?
Did I take a moment first to,before I responded like self
awareness, like, am I aware ofmyself?
Am I angry right now?
Is that going to come out inthis interaction?
(34:14):
Checking our attitudes, where amI taking taking this in a
positive way, am I, am I tryingto take it in a negative way,
creativity?
Like, do I have to take astraightforward response to this
or can I figure out analternative way?
then finally, which I think.
really what's kind of beenhelping me a lot recently.
(34:36):
It's being true to yourself andlike actually finding out who
you are and, what is it that isokay.
And what is not okay.
to you in this learningenvironment where you're trying
to teach students.
And and I've just been likevery, very reflective on this
recently, and it's helped me bevery calm.
(34:57):
It's helped me accept like,yeah, not every single day is
going to be, bright and shinyand being reflective on the
environment that we are settingup for our students.
So on that, do you by, do youthink you have any potential
guiding questions that you usewhen you're thinking about a
(35:18):
situation in class?
Kei (35:20):
I would say it's still not automatic for me.
A lot of times this reflectionfor me happens after the moment,
right?
Like in the moment something hashappened, maybe I'm trying to
just reduce harm, like respondin a way that is reminding the
student I care about them,prioritizing our relationship,
but also giving me space to stepback.
And think about it.
So sometimes these questions arein the shower later that night
(35:43):
or me trying to go to bed and Iwas like, Oh my God, I think I,
I understand.
Right.
But a lot of times, I like whatBrian said about, you know, if
you have to pull a kid in thehallway, or if you're giving
them that space for one on one,approaching it with a, you tell
me what, hm, can you tell mewhat's going on right now?
Right?
Inviting them into thatconversation, reminding them
(36:04):
they have agency, and I'm notjust there to, like, smack them
down about what they did thatwas wrong.
And, you know, if I have thatconversation with that student,
great, because then that's thequestion I lead with.
Can you tell me why we're outhere?
Can you tell me what's going on?
If it's just me thinking about,okay, that kid is doing that
thing again.
Maybe trying to think about whatcan I do in the moment to
(36:26):
prevent them from disrupting theclass and giving them some space
so maybe they can figure outwhat they need.
I often will reach out to otherteachers and ask, Are you seeing
this specific behavior in yourdifferent classes?
But again, that starts with mebeing curious about what it is
that I'm seeing and trying to bedescriptive.
I think those are the questionsI might start with.
bill (36:48):
something that I've been trying to do with, Establishing
like a classroom, a positiveclassroom environment is
attaching the desired behaviorsor like the appropriate
behaviors to our school values.
And saying like, Hey, you allare insert mascot.
(37:09):
this is who you are when you'rehere.
And these are the things that weas a community have said that we
value and maybe we need toupdate them.
That's fine.
That happens.
All the time we update ourvalues, but when you started the
school year, you knew what, whatwe expected what kind of values
we have.
So like if if the value is likehonesty, yeah make sure that
(37:34):
you're like, it's not that youdon't cheat because cheating is
wrong.
don't cheat because that's not avalue that we hold.
Because that's dishonesty.
And I think I've seen somepositive improvements outcomes
from that.
Kei (37:51):
I love that idea of tying it to the school values.
I'm thinking about when we cocreate agreements, it could be
tied to something like that.
Like we agreed in our classroomthat looked this way.
Or if you have school values andyou build your Class agreements
around that.
Or like PBIS in my school, wehave safe, respectful,
responsible.
(38:12):
They're very broad categories,but defining them, what does
that look like to us?
And how do we show that we arethings?
I just think that helps with thebuy in.
It reminds the kids like youare, you are a part of the
environment, right?
You are the most important partof this environment in a lot of
ways.
bill (38:29):
And I I've given a few like example behaviors, which is
overwhelming.
But I try to say like, this isnot exhaustive.
These are just like some veryobservable things that I can do
for now.
And I need them to be observableright now so that we can, I can
see whether or not it'shappening.
Which I think I got that fromJohn Cowart And it has been
(38:53):
really game changing even justlike for instructions but also
for like your finger on the wordthat we're reading but also with
other behaviors.
So my question was how do youturn off that reflection when
you're at home?
Kei (39:10):
Another excellent question.
I, so am reading a kind of aside note.
I am reading the book Arise byElena Aguilar.
I'm doing a book study with theother curriculum specialist and
she is a consultant.
She teaches coaches how to coachteachers.
And her whole method is calledtransformative coaching.
(39:32):
She is a really big believer inyou have, your cup has to be
full before you can fill someoneelse's cup.
And we all deserve to thrive.
And so a lot of what I'm gettingfrom her book is that I need to
care of myself before I can tryto help taking care of others
even if you know Whether that'sme coaching other teachers or
like in our teaching context.
(39:54):
We're taking care of ourstudents So I come home and I
prioritize walking my dog Allcomes full circle, but the days
where I missed Walking raven,like I don't feel really good.
You know, the doctors are alllike go do exercise and get
fresh air and the doctors.
It's true.
FishRod (40:14):
It turns out they were right all along.
I know.
Yeah, I just got on a runningschedule and then I'm like, wow,
I feel better.
Turns out
Kei (40:21):
keeping that routine if I come home and make sure to take
care of myself.
me kind of compartmentalizeright we talked about having
routines for students to getinto the You know, our, our
language, I think for me, cominghome and being with my dog is
my, like, I am at home and Iturn it off.
but the routine helps, helps mewith that.
(40:43):
Because at a certain point,reflection just becomes like
self flagellation and that's nothelpful.
So I know we've talked a lotabout antecedents and, you know,
we the teacher have a lot ofpower in our classroom and a big
responsibility to think aboutwhat can we do to help our
students.
What can we do to set up theenvironment?
And as I've been talkingtonight, I think about some
(41:04):
students I have where, for them,the antecedent or the context
where these behavior shows up isschool.
in school is a major trigger fora lot of our students who are
carrying so much emotionalbaggage or trauma with them.
And so this goes back to havinggrace for ourselves.
Is there are things that Icannot control, and there are
(41:26):
things that are outside of my ofinfluence to be able to support
the student with so turning tocolleagues or turning to school
counselors or reaching out tothe students, families and
guardians about, you know, hey,these are the behaviors I'm
seeing in school.
This is what we're trying, know,what else?
What other types of supportsdoes the student have?
(41:48):
Just reminding myself that Ican't beat myself up about just
the fact that school is notwhere everyone is thriving.
And I can do what I can to helpthem in my little context.
But for some students, thatcontext where the behavior is,
is in school, in presence ofauthority figures.
So not to end on like kind of adown note, but reminding myself
(42:11):
there is a lot that I caninfluence and be positive.
And maybe that student willremember, you know, I do care
about them, even if they aren'tlearning Japanese.
might be like as much as they'reable to do, or as much as I'm
able to do for them.
And reminding myself of that, Ithink, is important.
Bryan (42:28):
Yeah, I mean, I don't think that's a downer at all.
I mean, I think that's a goodthing for all of us to remember,
like, right?
Like, we shouldn't really beputting, making ourselves feel
bad because we are notsuperheroes.
we are teachers, we do the bestwe can, what I think about a lot
is, like, what I want mystudents to remember is that I
cared about them, that they canlearn a language in some form or
(42:50):
another, and that it's importantto understand people who are
different.
So, if they can do that, youknow, down the line, I'm happy.
And that can get rid of a lotof, like, Yeah, just the angry
storm cloud over your head,thinking, like, constantly
second guessing yourself.
So I think we're just about atour time.
And so I wanted to thank you somuch for joining us.
(43:11):
It's been really great listeningto you and just sharing your
thoughts and throwing thingsback and forth about, like, how
we have seen trying to createmore positive classroom
environments in our owncontexts.
And, yeah, I've definitelylearned a lot.
FishRod (43:25):
Again, I, I, I, from a, from a personal perspective,
encourage people to seek outcolleagues to honor and nominate
for awards and to highlight thegood work that they do every day
that, you know, often goesunnoticed.
And I'm just so thankful for,for Kate for coming on and
slaying with us.
Kei (43:42):
Thanks for having me.
It's been awesome.
bill (43:45):
I
Bryan (43:46):
Wait.
bill (43:46):
glad this is recorded so I can listen to it a million
times.
Thanks.
Kei (43:50):
Thank you so much.
bill (43:53):
Bye.
Bryan (43:54):
Bye.
Kei (43:55):
Bye.
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