July 12, 2022 • 18 mins
Even in the background, music can be used in subtle ways to invoke different stories. When National Public Media (NPM) is designing NPR ads, music is just one of the characters in their story. You're not being sold to- you're being told a story. For more on what NPM is doing check out www.nationalpublicmedia.org for more information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:06):
Welcometo the Sound In Marketing podcast.
I'm your host, Jeanna Isham.
Owner and founder of Dreamr Productionsand Sound in Marketing Learning.
I create, consult and educate
brands and individualson the power of sound in marketing.
Looking to create branded soundor need a sound strategist?
Head on over to www.DreamrProductions.comand let's chat.
(00:27):
That's www.DreamrProductions.com.
Want to learn more about soundin marketing these days?
Go to SoundInMarketing.com.
There's courses and resources galore.
Now back to the show.
In part one, Sara and Shannon discussedhow NPM is all about intentionality,
relatability, and purposeful storytellingfor their advertising content.
(00:50):
We pick up where we left off,focusing a little more on the way
they tell stories through music in subtlebut very effective ways.
So I mentioned before, you know, public
radio has a different relationshipwith music than a lot of commercial media.
Definitely the way that music is used onNPR, for example,
is much more subtle,much more kind of used in transitions,
(01:14):
letting the kind of journalistic storystand on its own.
But that actually kind of worksin our favor with sponsorship,
because that gives us the opportunityto play a little bit more with music
and helpskind of create that cue for listeners,
that, you know,this is a little bit of a different story.
And so we tend to use music,
(01:34):
in our brand soundscapes, for example.
And we try to really work with itin a way that it both
kind of helpsto like to match the public radio tone,
but also kind of differentiate itfrom an NPR traditional NPR story.
And I'd love to have Shannonspeak more about that for us.
Because they do a lot ofthe scoring for our pieces.
(01:56):
Yeah, we we actually work with a composer,
several composers, but we create customscoring for each of our campaigns
for each sponsor, and we do thatfor a couple of different reasons.
One is the flexibilityof being able to say, this is a story.
Here's the person's voice.
Let's find the instrumentsthat complement it.
(02:17):
And the reason I'm saying complementit is because the way I like to think
about the scoring withthis is let's make sure that this is like,
you know, when you're listening to a songand you're you're listening along
and the main singer is goingand then they, they fade off.
And in that transition,
some other guitar piece comes inand your attention is brought there.
(02:39):
But you didn't hear that guitaruntil after the singer was done.
Right? So it's this idea of this handoff.
It's this narrative,and the music is a character in the story.
So how can we use that character to help
tell the story in a waythat doesn't take away from the message.
It doesn't take away from thatmain speaker, but still helps
to communicate the toneunderneath their story.
(03:01):
So working with a composermeans that we can actually sit down
and be like, hey, at 32 seconds,I need a tonal shift
so that we can feelthe impact of this word.
I need something really exciting herebecause they're talking
about this new innovation in this automobile, something like that, that
we can't necessarily get when we're usingstock music and for legal purposes.
(03:22):
Right.We're not going to use popular music.
We don't want to have to, you know, dealwith the rights and clearances there.
And at the end of the day,the sponsor owns the story.
So what can we make sure we're doing?
To get them somethingthat is uniquely theirs,
to Sara's point of like tone
and making it a little bit differentthan the public radio approach is.
(03:44):
We still, you know, love our pianos andour strings and all the orchestral sounds.
But, we've also had the opportunity
to work with different composerswho bring different style.
Meet Leah Andrews I was watching TVand I saw this beautiful New York
snowglobe come up on the screen,and it was very ornate inside the globe.
(04:04):
It had the twin towersand a bunch of other really,
beautifully sculpted buildingsin the moment of seeing it
with the glitterflying around in the snow flying around.
I just wanted to kind of be in therealmost.
And the rest is kind of history.
Leah became the queen of snow globes,
(04:25):
making custom one of the composerswe work with right now.
I actually found on social mediabecause they had a song,
just like a spoof song,a little parody song that was like,
I got my sock wetand now I have to throw my whole foot away
and I saw thatand I was like, oh, that's funny.
And it's like stuck in your head,you know?
The song.
(04:46):
And I reached out
and it's just so amazingto see how people can bring
different perspectivesto the music and different pieces
and tonesand instrumentation and energies.
And so we've gotten
to work with this person, andand she's been absolutely fantastic
at bringing a different soundto those sponsorship messages.
(05:08):
Again, finding the way to make it similarto public radio,
but differentiated enough that the NPRlistener knows that it's sponsorship
as a composer.
Thank you for doing that.
I still write production music,
but it frustrates me a lotbecause when you're told write something
like Toddlers and Tiaras or Duck Dynasty,what does that mean?
(05:31):
But if you're actuallycomposing for a set, this is the story.
This is the project. This is the tone.
Any composer worththeir weight can work with that
and actually come up with somethingthat will emote specifically for that,
rather than just write something dramedylike that doesn't that doesn't vibe.
(05:55):
So I really appreciate that you do that.
And I hope that more and more companieswill take that on,
rather than just grabbing some trackfrom some library.
That's just, I don't know,I really, really appreciate that.
So I'm glad that you do that. Thank you.
Yeah. No.
And that's half the fun of it. Right.
Is like part of the fun of makingthese stories is getting to dive in
(06:16):
and learn about each of these brands,learn
about these industries,learn about these products.
The other part that's also really funis getting to create something
that's unique,
getting to create somethingthat's different
and something that like,will not be recreated again,
you know, we're not going to use thatsame music from one sponsor to the next,
and we're going to make sure that we havethat conversation of like, hey,
I would love for this oneto have some digital sounds,
(06:39):
but also something organicand they get really excited at this point.
So let's make sure we're emoting,you know, x, Y and Z of of feelings.
Right.
And just having that conversation I thinkis also just another way that we're
putting a little bit more mindfulnessinto the sponsorship we're creating.
And I would add to, you know,we try to be really thoughtful about
(07:03):
how we work with freelancersand other creatives on the stories.
We are a very small team.
So we do,
you know, need to bring in other peoplefrom time to time to help on our projects.
And I think the fact that also,you know, we've been in that role too
and like worked on different projects,we freelance in the past.
That really gives youthat other perspective, too.
(07:24):
How can I take that extra step to makethis experience of working with our team
really clear and memorable and enjoyable,and how can we,
you know, kind of put,
put them first as well, because I know,
you know, working in the advertisingworld, there's always that that sort of
adage of the client comes firstand we try to kind of extend
(07:45):
the mindfulness in our workto also include the team and like,
make sure that we'rebeing very clear to clients,
but we're also really respecting our teamand everyone we work with.
And really trying to do what we do
in a sustainable waythat's not going to burn people out.
I think that there's many differentsound languages.
And so if you speak the language of words,
(08:07):
there could be another person that speaksthe language of music and another person
that speaks the language of sound design,and they all go together.
And so especially if you saidyou had a small team,
if you can branch outand bring different parts
of that language together,you're gonna have a stronger story.
And I was also thinking to like,you know, depending on how
(08:29):
and how the where the client isgeographically or demographically
or economically,you could bring in a composer
or a sound designer that comes from thisdemographic of some sort,
and they could representin even more of an emotional way.
So there's there's no no end to the limitsof possibilities that you could do.
(08:50):
It's funny
you say thatbecause I think, in terms of language,
like, I'm a musician by tradeand technically and like Sarah,
we're going to English major.Is that correct?
I was indeed okay.
So like I am not words and clauses.
That is not my style.
I am audio firstand so we've definitely seen
(09:11):
that come to lifeand how we relate to client feedback.
Or our associate producer even is Sammy.
She's kind of in the middle too. I'd say.
And so it's been really interesting
as we expand our teamand as we bring in other people,
from different perspectives,from different walks of life,
just being ableto have those intentional conversations
and say, like,oh, you see this differently?
(09:32):
Okay, let's chat about that.
Let's figure out what the best wayto move forward with this is.
And to your point also, I just want to addsomething we've been trying to be
very mindful of and
work towards is making surethat when we're telling stories for brands
and we're featuring people whomaybe they're partnered with or,
(09:54):
you know, maybe they've funded or elevatedtheir work
in some way, really being mindfulwith how we tell their story
so that they feel empowered in that space.
Trying to be very cautiousabout recognizing
that the story is from the brand, butmaybe not about the brand.
It's just about the work.
The brand is helping to supportand making sure that we are being super
(10:16):
intentionalwith how we present that information.
And make sure that, again, like,they feel empowered
and that they get to have a voicein telling their story.
I was just watching a clip from,a Steve Jobs video,
and he was talking about,examples of how you market,
and he was using Nike as an example,and he said in Nike's advertising
(10:40):
and marketing, they don't actually talkabout the product.
They talk about the physicality of it,what you can do with it,
the people that are involved.
So to your point, yes,I completely agree there.
There has to be a bigger picture out thererather than just buy my shoe
and somethingwe haven't really touched on too much.
(11:01):
But I think
this is a big driver for our work,and that kind of made me think of this as,
because we are creating pieces for the NPRaudience.
We're creating sponsorshipthat the NPR audience will hear.
All the work we're doing, aside
from the mindfulness, mindfulnessthat we are putting into it.
All of our customaudio pieces are also undergoing a legal
(11:22):
and ethics review as we go through.
And I think the biggest thing about thatis just every piece we create,
we need to make sure it's groundedin facts, grounded in real experiences,
and can be substantiated.
And so I think to your point of,
(11:43):
you're showingwhat the impact of the work is.
You're showingwhat is possible with this work.
We're also making sure that we likekind of reign that in at times.
Right?
It's like, yes,you can pie in the sky, but
let's talk about what is happeningand what the real impact is.
And oftentimes like that relatable storyof this is what we have done with
(12:04):
this is far more powerful than maybethe marketing language could be there.
Right?
The idea of showing how this is makinga tangible impact is something we try
to really hold on to as we go forwardwith these and as we as we close out.
I just wanted to ask this question,just for the viewers,
(12:24):
when you speak to your your
clients, when they're workingon these advertisements for sponsorship
and such, what guidelines,what kinds of things do you try and,
let them know needs to be present?
What kinds of aspects doyou need from them to create a good story?
That resonates with the NPR audience?
(12:45):
I think one thing we've been thinkingabout more,
as we've done more of these storiesand we've started to actually track
and follow the performancedata and see, like, which types of voices,
do listeners resonate with?
You know, one of the thingswe've thought about is also considering
this in the context of NPR's NorthStar goal, which is, you know, really
(13:07):
growing their audience to include youngerand more diverse listeners.
And in that same vein,you know, when we work with sponsors,
we want to encourage themto really showcase speakers
who are both inspiring but also relatable.
So we have a lot of brands who,you know, want to feature their founder
or their CEO, and those can besome really great stories.
(13:29):
But at the same time,we also really try to encourage brands
to think about peoplewho are actually doing the everyday work.
You know, why they joined the brand?
What's their story,kind of hearing from someone
who maybe doesn'thave the chance to speak as much,
but who's really passionateabout what they do.
And when we've been able to do that,
we found those storiesreally resonate and perform really well.
(13:53):
And I think
it's it's cool because I think really thethe goal of making our stories
more inclusive and making our speakersreally relatable is that, you know, it's
it's important to that Northstar goalof including different people.
But it also really helps clientssee success on our NPR platforms as well.
That's really brilliant, though,because, I mean, yes,
(14:15):
you have certainCEOs like the founder of Wendy's, Dave.
He was always fun to watchand all that stuff.
But, you know, like, what kind of a storywould you get from the, you know, the
drive through clerk or, you know, somebodythat's been the secretary
at the company for 20, 30 yearsor something like that you get a more
(14:35):
maybe it's not as like a quirky,cute kind of thing,
but you get a more realistic perspective
of that company, which, again, issomething that you can relate to better.
Like, I don't relate to Dave.
I think he's funny.
Or was I guess he passed away,but but if I were to hear from
like somebody that was on the groundactually working in the brand, it's
(14:58):
definitely something that you can connectto in a more emotional way.
So yeah, I can see the power
I think I would add there to
the C-suite tend to be
very, very prepared for interviews.
They know what they're saying.
If you've seen them speak elsewhereor if you've seen them, in ads
(15:21):
or you've heard them in podcasts before,they probably know the exact
answer that they're going to give youwhen you ask them a question.
And the NPR listeneris very finely attuned to this is podcast.
This is off the cuff.
This is genuine versusI am hearing a scripted answer.
They can tell the difference. Right.
(15:43):
And so when we're talking to our sponsors
and we're saying, hey,let's make sure we're creating something
that is authentic and feels genuine
and that listeners can relate to.
Exactly.
To your point, it's somebodywho's going to speak passionately,
maybe not perfectly, and that's okay.
(16:03):
Again, with that public media approachthat we're trying to put into each
of our pieces for sponsorship,
we're also keeping in mindthat people don't speak perfectly.
People say “uhm”,people say “like” people phrase things
weird and give you the wrong tenseand the wrong clause.
You know, all these thingsthat you wouldn't get in a scripted ad,
but that's how you know it's real,and that's how you know it's coming
(16:25):
from someone who is really speakingfrom the heart about their work
and about what they're doing,which I think is the most relatable thing.
When you're able to actually hearwhy somebody does what they do,
it's so memorable, too,because I think some of our most fun
interviewsthat we've done for these stories
are we actually get to hearthese really interesting design stories
(16:46):
and the problems that people facedand kind of how
they how they worked around it.
And, it definitely brings the brandto life in a new way and gives people
something really specific to rememberas well, which ultimately is the goal.
You want to leave them with somethingbecause however,
however that ad ends, that'swhat people will remember the most.
(17:09):
At least that's what I've heard.
And I was thinking too.
I interviewed, some gals at mindsharea couple of years ago,
and they brought up a very good pointthat, you know, usually you're listening
to a podcast with,
you know, earbuds in your earor headphones, and that's very intimate,
like somebody is right there in your head,you have to be respectful of that.
(17:31):
And if you've got,you know, to Shannon's point,
if you've got a CEOthat probably has a scripted answer
for everything,it doesn't come across the same.
Maybe it would on a TV ad, but when you'rethat close, your your brain is smart.
It'll pick up on stuff
and know that that was scriptedor know that that was already decided.
(17:52):
So wonderful, wonderful work.
Shannon.
Sarah, thank you so much for joining meon the Sound In Marketing podcast.
I've learned so muchand I hope you had a good time.
Thank you.
It's been really wonderfulto talk with you.
This is excellent. Thank you so much.
For more on what NPM is doing,check out National Public media.org.
(18:14):
I hope you're enjoying the show.
Don't forget to subscribeon all the major podcast channels, share
with friends, follow and rate.
Spread the word because, well,more people should know about this stuff.
I know you know that. Now.
For any other inquiries, you can find meon LinkedIn, Twitter and Facebook.
You can also email me at Jeanna@DreamrProductions.com
Jeanna@DreamrProductions.com
(18:37):
All links will be provided in the shownotes.
Let's make this world of soundmore intriguing, more unique, and more
and more on brand.
Welcometo the Sound In Marketing podcast.
I'm your host, Jeanna Isham.
Owner and founder of Dreamr Productionsand Sound in Marketing Learning.
I create, consult and educate
brands and individualson the power of sound in marketing.
Looking to create branded soundor need a sound strategist?
Head on over to www.DreamrProductions.comand let's chat.
(00:27):
That's www.DreamrProductions.com.
Want to learn more about soundin marketing these days?
Go to SoundInMarketing.com.
There's courses and resources galore.
Now back to the show.
In part one, Sara and Shannon discussedhow NPM is all about intentionality,
relatability, and purposeful storytellingfor their advertising content.
(00:50):
We pick up where we left off,focusing a little more on the way
they tell stories through music in subtlebut very effective ways.
So I mentioned before, you know, public
radio has a different relationshipwith music than a lot of commercial media.
Definitely the way that music is used onNPR, for example,
is much more subtle,much more kind of used in transitions,
(01:14):
letting the kind of journalistic storystand on its own.
But that actually kind of worksin our favor with sponsorship,
because that gives us the opportunityto play a little bit more with music
and helpskind of create that cue for listeners,
that, you know,this is a little bit of a different story.
And so we tend to use music,
(01:34):
in our brand soundscapes, for example.
And we try to really work with itin a way that it both
kind of helpsto like to match the public radio tone,
but also kind of differentiate itfrom an NPR traditional NPR story.
And I'd love to have Shannonspeak more about that for us.
Because they do a lot ofthe scoring for our pieces.
(01:56):
Yeah, we we actually work with a composer,
several composers, but we create customscoring for each of our campaigns
for each sponsor, and we do thatfor a couple of different reasons.
One is the flexibilityof being able to say, this is a story.
Here's the person's voice.
Let's find the instrumentsthat complement it.
(02:17):
And the reason I'm saying complementit is because the way I like to think
about the scoring withthis is let's make sure that this is like,
you know, when you're listening to a songand you're you're listening along
and the main singer is goingand then they, they fade off.
And in that transition,
some other guitar piece comes inand your attention is brought there.
(02:39):
But you didn't hear that guitaruntil after the singer was done.
Right? So it's this idea of this handoff.
It's this narrative,and the music is a character in the story.
So how can we use that character to help
tell the story in a waythat doesn't take away from the message.
It doesn't take away from thatmain speaker, but still helps
to communicate the toneunderneath their story.
(03:01):
So working with a composermeans that we can actually sit down
and be like, hey, at 32 seconds,I need a tonal shift
so that we can feelthe impact of this word.
I need something really exciting herebecause they're talking
about this new innovation in this automobile, something like that, that
we can't necessarily get when we're usingstock music and for legal purposes.
(03:22):
Right.We're not going to use popular music.
We don't want to have to, you know, dealwith the rights and clearances there.
And at the end of the day,the sponsor owns the story.
So what can we make sure we're doing?
To get them somethingthat is uniquely theirs,
to Sara's point of like tone
and making it a little bit differentthan the public radio approach is.
(03:44):
We still, you know, love our pianos andour strings and all the orchestral sounds.
But, we've also had the opportunity
to work with different composerswho bring different style.
Meet Leah Andrews I was watching TVand I saw this beautiful New York
snowglobe come up on the screen,and it was very ornate inside the globe.
(04:04):
It had the twin towersand a bunch of other really,
beautifully sculpted buildingsin the moment of seeing it
with the glitterflying around in the snow flying around.
I just wanted to kind of be in therealmost.
And the rest is kind of history.
Leah became the queen of snow globes,
(04:25):
making custom one of the composerswe work with right now.
I actually found on social mediabecause they had a song,
just like a spoof song,a little parody song that was like,
I got my sock wetand now I have to throw my whole foot away
and I saw thatand I was like, oh, that's funny.
And it's like stuck in your head,you know?
The song.
(04:46):
And I reached out
and it's just so amazingto see how people can bring
different perspectivesto the music and different pieces
and tonesand instrumentation and energies.
And so we've gotten
to work with this person, andand she's been absolutely fantastic
at bringing a different soundto those sponsorship messages.
(05:08):
Again, finding the way to make it similarto public radio,
but differentiated enough that the NPRlistener knows that it's sponsorship
as a composer.
Thank you for doing that.
I still write production music,
but it frustrates me a lotbecause when you're told write something
like Toddlers and Tiaras or Duck Dynasty,what does that mean?
(05:31):
But if you're actuallycomposing for a set, this is the story.
This is the project. This is the tone.
Any composer worththeir weight can work with that
and actually come up with somethingthat will emote specifically for that,
rather than just write something dramedylike that doesn't that doesn't vibe.
(05:55):
So I really appreciate that you do that.
And I hope that more and more companieswill take that on,
rather than just grabbing some trackfrom some library.
That's just, I don't know,I really, really appreciate that.
So I'm glad that you do that. Thank you.
Yeah. No.
And that's half the fun of it. Right.
Is like part of the fun of makingthese stories is getting to dive in
(06:16):
and learn about each of these brands,learn
about these industries,learn about these products.
The other part that's also really funis getting to create something
that's unique,
getting to create somethingthat's different
and something that like,will not be recreated again,
you know, we're not going to use thatsame music from one sponsor to the next,
and we're going to make sure that we havethat conversation of like, hey,
I would love for this oneto have some digital sounds,
(06:39):
but also something organicand they get really excited at this point.
So let's make sure we're emoting,you know, x, Y and Z of of feelings.
Right.
And just having that conversation I thinkis also just another way that we're
putting a little bit more mindfulnessinto the sponsorship we're creating.
And I would add to, you know,we try to be really thoughtful about
(07:03):
how we work with freelancersand other creatives on the stories.
We are a very small team.
So we do,
you know, need to bring in other peoplefrom time to time to help on our projects.
And I think the fact that also,you know, we've been in that role too
and like worked on different projects,we freelance in the past.
That really gives youthat other perspective, too.
(07:24):
How can I take that extra step to makethis experience of working with our team
really clear and memorable and enjoyable,and how can we,
you know, kind of put,
put them first as well, because I know,
you know, working in the advertisingworld, there's always that that sort of
adage of the client comes firstand we try to kind of extend
(07:45):
the mindfulness in our workto also include the team and like,
make sure that we'rebeing very clear to clients,
but we're also really respecting our teamand everyone we work with.
And really trying to do what we do
in a sustainable waythat's not going to burn people out.
I think that there's many differentsound languages.
And so if you speak the language of words,
(08:07):
there could be another person that speaksthe language of music and another person
that speaks the language of sound design,and they all go together.
And so especially if you saidyou had a small team,
if you can branch outand bring different parts
of that language together,you're gonna have a stronger story.
And I was also thinking to like,you know, depending on how
(08:29):
and how the where the client isgeographically or demographically
or economically,you could bring in a composer
or a sound designer that comes from thisdemographic of some sort,
and they could representin even more of an emotional way.
So there's there's no no end to the limitsof possibilities that you could do.
(08:50):
It's funny
you say thatbecause I think, in terms of language,
like, I'm a musician by tradeand technically and like Sarah,
we're going to English major.Is that correct?
I was indeed okay.
So like I am not words and clauses.
That is not my style.
I am audio firstand so we've definitely seen
(09:11):
that come to lifeand how we relate to client feedback.
Or our associate producer even is Sammy.
She's kind of in the middle too. I'd say.
And so it's been really interesting
as we expand our teamand as we bring in other people,
from different perspectives,from different walks of life,
just being ableto have those intentional conversations
and say, like,oh, you see this differently?
(09:32):
Okay, let's chat about that.
Let's figure out what the best wayto move forward with this is.
And to your point also, I just want to addsomething we've been trying to be
very mindful of and
work towards is making surethat when we're telling stories for brands
and we're featuring people whomaybe they're partnered with or,
(09:54):
you know, maybe they've funded or elevatedtheir work
in some way, really being mindfulwith how we tell their story
so that they feel empowered in that space.
Trying to be very cautiousabout recognizing
that the story is from the brand, butmaybe not about the brand.
It's just about the work.
The brand is helping to supportand making sure that we are being super
(10:16):
intentionalwith how we present that information.
And make sure that, again, like,they feel empowered
and that they get to have a voicein telling their story.
I was just watching a clip from,a Steve Jobs video,
and he was talking about,examples of how you market,
and he was using Nike as an example,and he said in Nike's advertising
(10:40):
and marketing, they don't actually talkabout the product.
They talk about the physicality of it,what you can do with it,
the people that are involved.
So to your point, yes,I completely agree there.
There has to be a bigger picture out thererather than just buy my shoe
and somethingwe haven't really touched on too much.
(11:01):
But I think
this is a big driver for our work,and that kind of made me think of this as,
because we are creating pieces for the NPRaudience.
We're creating sponsorshipthat the NPR audience will hear.
All the work we're doing, aside
from the mindfulness, mindfulnessthat we are putting into it.
All of our customaudio pieces are also undergoing a legal
(11:22):
and ethics review as we go through.
And I think the biggest thing about thatis just every piece we create,
we need to make sure it's groundedin facts, grounded in real experiences,
and can be substantiated.
And so I think to your point of,
(11:43):
you're showingwhat the impact of the work is.
You're showingwhat is possible with this work.
We're also making sure that we likekind of reign that in at times.
Right?
It's like, yes,you can pie in the sky, but
let's talk about what is happeningand what the real impact is.
And oftentimes like that relatable storyof this is what we have done with
(12:04):
this is far more powerful than maybethe marketing language could be there.
Right?
The idea of showing how this is makinga tangible impact is something we try
to really hold on to as we go forwardwith these and as we as we close out.
I just wanted to ask this question,just for the viewers,
(12:24):
when you speak to your your
clients, when they're workingon these advertisements for sponsorship
and such, what guidelines,what kinds of things do you try and,
let them know needs to be present?
What kinds of aspects doyou need from them to create a good story?
That resonates with the NPR audience?
(12:45):
I think one thing we've been thinkingabout more,
as we've done more of these storiesand we've started to actually track
and follow the performancedata and see, like, which types of voices,
do listeners resonate with?
You know, one of the thingswe've thought about is also considering
this in the context of NPR's NorthStar goal, which is, you know, really
(13:07):
growing their audience to include youngerand more diverse listeners.
And in that same vein,you know, when we work with sponsors,
we want to encourage themto really showcase speakers
who are both inspiring but also relatable.
So we have a lot of brands who,you know, want to feature their founder
or their CEO, and those can besome really great stories.
(13:29):
But at the same time,we also really try to encourage brands
to think about peoplewho are actually doing the everyday work.
You know, why they joined the brand?
What's their story,kind of hearing from someone
who maybe doesn'thave the chance to speak as much,
but who's really passionateabout what they do.
And when we've been able to do that,
we found those storiesreally resonate and perform really well.
(13:53):
And I think
it's it's cool because I think really thethe goal of making our stories
more inclusive and making our speakersreally relatable is that, you know, it's
it's important to that Northstar goalof including different people.
But it also really helps clientssee success on our NPR platforms as well.
That's really brilliant, though,because, I mean, yes,
(14:15):
you have certainCEOs like the founder of Wendy's, Dave.
He was always fun to watchand all that stuff.
But, you know, like, what kind of a storywould you get from the, you know, the
drive through clerk or, you know, somebodythat's been the secretary
at the company for 20, 30 yearsor something like that you get a more
(14:35):
maybe it's not as like a quirky,cute kind of thing,
but you get a more realistic perspective
of that company, which, again, issomething that you can relate to better.
Like, I don't relate to Dave.
I think he's funny.
Or was I guess he passed away,but but if I were to hear from
like somebody that was on the groundactually working in the brand, it's
(14:58):
definitely something that you can connectto in a more emotional way.
So yeah, I can see the power
I think I would add there to
the C-suite tend to be
very, very prepared for interviews.
They know what they're saying.
If you've seen them speak elsewhereor if you've seen them, in ads
(15:21):
or you've heard them in podcasts before,they probably know the exact
answer that they're going to give youwhen you ask them a question.
And the NPR listeneris very finely attuned to this is podcast.
This is off the cuff.
This is genuine versusI am hearing a scripted answer.
They can tell the difference. Right.
(15:43):
And so when we're talking to our sponsors
and we're saying, hey,let's make sure we're creating something
that is authentic and feels genuine
and that listeners can relate to.
Exactly.
To your point, it's somebodywho's going to speak passionately,
maybe not perfectly, and that's okay.
(16:03):
Again, with that public media approachthat we're trying to put into each
of our pieces for sponsorship,
we're also keeping in mindthat people don't speak perfectly.
People say “uhm”,people say “like” people phrase things
weird and give you the wrong tenseand the wrong clause.
You know, all these thingsthat you wouldn't get in a scripted ad,
but that's how you know it's real,and that's how you know it's coming
(16:25):
from someone who is really speakingfrom the heart about their work
and about what they're doing,which I think is the most relatable thing.
When you're able to actually hearwhy somebody does what they do,
it's so memorable, too,because I think some of our most fun
interviewsthat we've done for these stories
are we actually get to hearthese really interesting design stories
(16:46):
and the problems that people facedand kind of how
they how they worked around it.
And, it definitely brings the brandto life in a new way and gives people
something really specific to rememberas well, which ultimately is the goal.
You want to leave them with somethingbecause however,
however that ad ends, that'swhat people will remember the most.
(17:09):
At least that's what I've heard.
And I was thinking too.
I interviewed, some gals at mindsharea couple of years ago,
and they brought up a very good pointthat, you know, usually you're listening
to a podcast with,
you know, earbuds in your earor headphones, and that's very intimate,
like somebody is right there in your head,you have to be respectful of that.
(17:31):
And if you've got,you know, to Shannon's point,
if you've got a CEOthat probably has a scripted answer
for everything,it doesn't come across the same.
Maybe it would on a TV ad, but when you'rethat close, your your brain is smart.
It'll pick up on stuff
and know that that was scriptedor know that that was already decided.
(17:52):
So wonderful, wonderful work.
Shannon.
Sarah, thank you so much for joining meon the Sound In Marketing podcast.
I've learned so muchand I hope you had a good time.
Thank you.
It's been really wonderfulto talk with you.
This is excellent. Thank you so much.
For more on what NPM is doing,check out National Public media.org.
(18:14):
I hope you're enjoying the show.
Don't forget to subscribeon all the major podcast channels, share
with friends, follow and rate.
Spread the word because, well,more people should know about this stuff.
I know you know that. Now.
For any other inquiries, you can find meon LinkedIn, Twitter and Facebook.
You can also email me at Jeanna@DreamrProductions.com
Jeanna@DreamrProductions.com
(18:37):
All links will be provided in the shownotes.
Let's make this world of soundmore intriguing, more unique, and more
and more on brand.
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