Udi Ledergor, Gong's Chief Evangelist and former CMO, reveals how courageous marketing strategies helped propel Gong from startup to multi-billion dollar company status while redefining the B2B marketing playbook.
• Creating bold B2B marketing that stands out requires courage and rejecting "boring practices" that yield ordinary results
• The "punching above your weight" strategy helped Gong appear much larger than it was, allowing early access to enterprise customers
• Gong's Super Bowl commercial hack: buying regional ads in tech hubs for under $350K instead of spending $20M on national spots
• The 95-5 rule: most marketers only target the 5% ready to buy, while Gong created value for the other 95% through Gong Labs content
• Breaking B2B visual identity norms by rejecting "Series A blues" for bold fuchsia and purple with a bulldog mascot
• Building psychological safety within marketing teams encourages innovative ideas and calculated risk-taking
• Udi's background as a magician influenced his marketing approach: complex work behind the scenes creates simple, magical experiences
• Marketing's ultimate goal is making sales easier – creating alignment across teams and driving measurable business results
• Finding courage to take strong, bold points of view in marketing requires leadership that celebrates creative experimentation
You can find Courageous Marketing: The B2B Marketer's Playbook for Career Success by Udi Ledergor available everywhere books are sold starting April 10th.
https://www.amazon.com/Courageous-Marketing-Marketers-Playbook-Success/dp/B0DZQLTW45
What does it take to transform B2B marketing from forgettable to phenomenal? Udi Ledergor, reveals the bold strategies that helped drive Gong from early-stage startup to multi-billion-dollar powerhouse with over $300 million in ARR.
Udi shares the genesis of his new book "Courageous Marketing: The B2B Marketer's Playbook for Career Success," distilling two decades of hard-won wisdom into actionable insights for marketers at every stage. The conversation explodes with practical, counterintuitive approaches that challenge the status quo of B2B marketing.
The discussion dives deep into building memorable brands through distinctive visual identity creating content that serves the 95% not yet ready to buy, and fostering a culture where marketing teams feel safe taking calculated risks.
Whether you're a marketing veteran or just starting your journey, this episode delivers a masterclass in breaking free from "boring practices" to create marketing that drives real business results while genuinely connecting with audiences. Ready to inject some courage into your marketing?
Udi Ledergor: https://www.linkedin.com/in/udiledergor/
Udi was Gong's first marketing hire as their CMO. He's the mastermind who helped define the revenue intelligence category and create Gong's iconic, human-centered brand. He's led marketing at five B2B startups and is known for his bold approach to branding and storytelling that puts people first. When he's not evangelizing for Gong, Udi wears many hats as an author, speaker, mentor, angel investor, and board member. He is passionate about startups, storytelling, and creating unforgettable
Website: https://www.position2.com/podcast/
Rajiv Parikh: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rajivparikh/
Sandeep Parikh: https://www.instagram.com/sandeepparikh/
Email us with any feedback for the show: spark@postion2.com
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Welcome to the Spark of Ages podcast.
Today we're chatting with UdiLedergård, the chief evangelist
at Gong.
Udi's got quite the story.
He was actually Gong's firstmarketing hire and their CMO,
helping the company skyrocketfrom hundreds of thousands to
hundreds of millions in revenueand reach that coveted
multi-billion dollar,multi-unicorn status.
(00:30):
He's the mastermind who'shelped define the revenue
intelligence category and createGong's iconic human-centered
brand.
This isn't Udi's first rodeo.
He led marketing at five B2Bstartups and is known for his
bold approach to branding andstorytelling that puts people
first.
When he's not evangelizing forGong, udi wears many hats as an
(00:52):
author, speaker, mentor, angelinvestor and board member.
He's passionate about startups,storytelling and creating
unforgettable brand experiences.
In fact, udi's newest book,courageous Marketing, which
we're going to explore with Uditoday, debuts on April 10th.
So ask Google, your AI, amazonwherever you get a book from to
(01:14):
get more details on where tograb it.
Udi graduated with both hismaster's and MBA from the
College of Management AcademicStudies in Israel, which,
interesting fact, is the largestcollege in Israel.
Some of the key takeaways youcan expect from this episode
Bold and courageous go-to-marketstrategies, which emphasizes
taking risks and building boldbrands.
(01:36):
How to build and inspirehigh-performing marketing teams.
The story of how Udi managed toconvince his company Gong to do
a Super Bowl commercial and,finally, insights on how Udi's
mind operates in our ultimateword association challenge when
we put him into the spark tank.
Udi, welcome to the Spark ofAges.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
Oh my gosh, Rajiv, what a hard act to follow.
Thanks for having me to follow.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
Thanks for having me.
So great to have you.
You and I have run into eachother at so many common events.
We must have at least a hundredcommon LinkedIn connections.
And so it's just a thrill tohave you here, especially around
your brand new book.
So it's a great title.
As I read through the advancedcopy, I deeply appreciated how
(02:30):
you were able to take yourconcepts, which a lot of folks
may understand, but really bringit to light with great stories,
great ways of bringing thepoint across and helping to
encourage me to do bolder things.
So maybe you can talk about theconcept and what sparked your
interest to write it.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Yeah, absolutely so.
First, thank you for supportingmy book launch.
I'm super excited to haveCourageous Marketing, the B2B
Marketer's Playbook for CareerSuccess, come out on April 10th,
everywhere books are sold.
Here's where this book was bornfrom.
We talked about this before westarted recording.
There's over a hundred hours ofme talking on YouTube and
Spotify on podcasts and webinarsand events that I've been doing
(03:11):
over the years, and a lot ofpeople want to learn the lessons
that I've accumulated in 20years of B2B marketing, almost
half of them from Gong, where Iwas fortunate to be marketer
number one and build a team of60 marketers who really did the
most amazing work I've ever seena marketing team do and that
helped drive the company, alongwith our amazing product, of
(03:34):
course, to a multi-billiondollar valuation and, as we just
published a couple of weeks agoso I can finally talk about it
in public to 300 million in ARRso far and growing very fast.
And so a lot of people wantedto learn the lessons and I
wanted to scale myself, becausethere's only so many podcasts I
can do in so many stages I canbe on, and I thought a book
would be a great way of doingthis.
(03:54):
But during my CMO years.
My schedule just did not allowme time to sit down and write
down those stories and lessons,and let alone interview other
people and make it into a fun,delightful book to read.
But then two years ago I shiftedinto my current role as a chief
evangelist and that gave me alittle bit more time than I have
as a CMO and that's when Ithought would be the perfect
(04:16):
time.
So for the last 15 months or soI've been working on writing
down the best stories, the bestlessons, updating them and then
interviewing over a dozen people, half of which worked with me
at Gong, and they told me aboutpoints of views that I didn't
even know about, how we createdthings from our Super Bowl
commercial to our content,marketing, our event experiences
(04:39):
.
And I put all those points ofview into the book because I
think it's really important tounderstand how we build such an
amazing team, doing theirabsolute best work and giving
them a safe environment in whichthey can experiment and try
things and, yes, often fail aswell but we celebrate those as
learnings and move on.
(05:00):
Cmos names that you'll allrecognize from Michelle Tate
from MailChimp, tricia Gilmanfrom Box, dave Gerhardt, now at
Exit 5, originally at Drift andAnthony Canada who built the
customer success category atGainsight and so many other
great marketers, and as I wasputting all these stories
(05:20):
together and validating myapproach and the nuances that
all the different CMOs brought,I realized what the book was
really about.
So it's kind of funny because Ihad a different working title
when I started working on it,but only in the final rounds of
editing I realized that allthese stories were about finding
courage and doing somethingthat was counterintuitive, often
(05:42):
going against the grain andagainst the established best
practices which in most casesare, in reality, boring
practices that will get youordinary results.
And all these people, and allthe people on my team and these
other great CMOs andoccasionally myself as well we
found our voice, we took a verybold stand and we used a very
strong point of view, and all ofthese together constitute what
(06:05):
I now call courageous marketing.
So I hope to inspire marketers,whether they're up and coming
or seasoned, to take the boringout of B2B marketing and take a
strong, bold point of view andcreate awesome marketing,
because the world deserves itfrom us.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
I definitely agree.
I mean, there's so many.
So the easy thing to do whenyou're marketing is just to
stick to the main messages ofyour product and not really work
to stand out, and you'vedefinitely done that.
I thought one of the bigtakeaways I got from your book
was the notion of you may besmall, but you present large.
(06:41):
Maybe talk about some of thatbut you present large.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
Maybe talk about some of that.
Yeah, I call that idea punchingabove your weight, which I
think is kind of fun and catchyand everyone wants to do that.
Right, I was a scrawny littlekid.
I definitely didn't do anypunching.
I was the one on the receivingend of the punches, so at least
in marketing I get to punchabove my weight a little, and
the idea is that many, manystartups and even larger
companies.
They look out there and they seethe incumbents or big players
(07:09):
in their field or adjacent fielddoing these big marketing
investments whether they'renaming stadiums or flying
airships or Super Bowlcommercials and out-of-home
campaigns and all they can do isdream that maybe one day
they'll either be a big brand orwork for a big brand and
they'll get to do that stuff.
And I never wanted to settlefor that.
(07:29):
I was looking at thoseinspiring campaigns and programs
and growth hacks and I wantedto look like a big company and
before I get into the mechanicsof doing that, I think to
understand the importance ofthat.
Anyone who's been in a startupknows this catch 22, where you
(07:50):
want to sell to largeenterprises at some point before
you're actually ready to dothat and you realize that large
enterprises don't like buyingfrom small startups.
Large enterprises like buyingfrom guess what Other big
enterprises.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
Their safety in numbers.
Their jobs are on the line.
They're taking a risk, so theywant to buy from a place that
other people have bought from.
They want to feel comfortable.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
Exactly.
But how do you do that ifyou're a small startup?
If no big enterprises are goingto buy from you, then you'll
never reach that status.
So you're stuck in this viciouscycle of you're never big
enough to sell to those largeenterprises and beyond, being
product ready, building all theenterprise security stands and
privacy compliance andeverything you need to build.
(08:33):
Marketing has a really, reallyimportant role in appearing to
be bigger than you are, and Imake the case in the book that
marketing great marketing canmake a company appear to be two
or three years ahead of where itreally is, and that can make a
big difference in how early onlarger enterprises will take a
chance on you.
And so one simple framework thatI talk about in the book that
(08:57):
I've done and many of the CMOs Iinterviewed for the book have
also done, looks something likethis you take an offline
campaign that is typicallyassociated with large companies,
and this can be anything like abig billboard in Times Square
or a Super Bowl commercial, orwrapping cars around a
(09:18):
conference, or doing somethingthat, or taking a full page ad
in the Wall Street Journal right?
These things that everyone knowscost like tons of money, either
hundreds of thousands ormillions of dollars.
Now I'm not suggesting that yougo pay that money, because I
didn't have it in my budget andmost startups don't have it in
their budget, but what you do isyou find the smallest version
that you can afford of thosecampaigns.
(09:40):
I'll give some examples.
You go do it and then you makesure to videotape it and
photograph it and then amplifythat on all your digital assets,
whether it's your owned media,on social media and emails.
Get your employees, get yourcustomers to help you amplify
that and that's now going toyour actual target audience on
(10:03):
digital and that can make youlook much, much bigger than you
are.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
So let's break down.
Yeah, so you guys did thatreally well.
You mentioned a Super Bowlcommercial where you didn't
spend a lot.
That's right, so tell thatstory, I think that's a great
one, because we all dream, asmarketers, of doing the Super
Bowl commercial right Absolutely.
We think we have to spendmillions of dollars on it, just
to put it together, and that's$8 million a 30-second
(10:29):
commercial.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
But you didn't pay that.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
That would have depleted your first round of
funding.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
Probably, I think that was more than our first
round of funding.
So here's what happened.
I was working one day, as usual, when I got an email from
Monica, from CBS, and Monica, Ithink she just read about one of
our fundraising rounds theywere joking about and she said
hey, udi, you know, with SuperBowl coming up in a few months,
I think Gong would make anexcellent advertiser this year
(10:57):
and get your message across tomillions of people.
And I appreciated the outreach,but I responded politely.
I said, monica, I'm nowherenear the kind of budget that I'd
need for Super Bowl, but thankyou for thinking of us.
And she immediately respondedsaying Udi, I think I'll
surprise you with veryaffordable ways of being on the
Super Bowl.
I said, okay, monica, you'vereeled me in.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
That was a good hook.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
Talk to me about that You've earned a call.
You've earned a call and, evenif it was just for the
intellectual curiosity, I wantedto learn about Super Bowl
because, like what marketerdoesn't right?
So I get on the call withMonica and she explained
something to me that I'd neverheard about before because I had
assumed, like everyone, that toget on Super Bowl you need to
buy the national spot, which isabout $7 million or so for a 30
(11:41):
second in-game commercial, andthat's just for the media.
Most advertisers who do thatend up spending a few more
millions on the creative Right.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
I mean you're not going to spend $8 million on one
or $20 million on three and notspend money on the creative.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
So you spend a few more millions on the creative.
So now you're like a $10, $15,$20 million, which of course I
don't have and most advertisersdon't have.
But what Monica explained to meis that Superbowl, like most
television events, they have anational inventory of
advertising and they also have aregional inventory, and the
viewing experience is identical.
So if I'm sitting in I don'tknow Nashville, tennessee, and
(12:23):
I'm watching the game, I see afew commercials go on at
halftime.
Some of them are being servedfrom the national inventory,
along with everyone else in thenation, and others are being
served from the Nashvilleregional inventory.
That only I'm seeing, togetherwith a few zip codes next to me,
and I'm none the wiser.
I have no idea which ones areserved nationally and which ones
(12:44):
are served regionally.
So that presents an amazingopportunity for marketers, who
can identify specific regionswhere their messaging would be
most effective, to buy justthose regions, if they can
afford them, at a fraction ofthe cost of the national ad.
To give folks an idea if theyhaven't seen this math before, I
(13:04):
already said the national adcosts something like $7 million.
Well, regions can go for fiveor six figure amounts.
So what I ended up doing isbuying three regions, so San
Francisco, which is a fantasticregion for any SaaS company.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
That's your target market, right?
I mean some of my friends whorun, who work MarTech companies,
many of some of whom have beenon this podcast.
They're, you know, 40% or 50%of their revenue comes from just
this region.
Exactly, that's exactly right,there's only tech companies in
this region.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
Yeah, so I did the math.
I ran a report by CRM and I sawthat at that time, about 60% of
our customers and prospectswere in the Silicon Valley area.
Now here's the beauty of it SanFrancisco is a very small city.
It's only got a populationabout 800,000.
And so the regional media ispriced according to the
population, which, for consumerbrands, makes a lot of sense.
(13:55):
For B2B brands, that's anamazing hack, because even
though it's not a denselypopulated area.
You can get to a huge proportionof your target audience by
targeting that area.
And so, armed with thatinformation, I met my CEO, amit,
on a rooftop bar in SanFrancisco a few days later and I
(14:19):
knew I could probably get himexcited about this, and my hope
was that if I got him excitedenough, he would join forces
with me in twisting the CFO'sarm, which is the tough cookie
to get past, and maybe, justmaybe, we could actually pull
this off.
So by the time he was liftinghis second drink from the table,
I said I mean so I've got thiswild idea for you and said carry
(14:40):
on, he likes wild ideas.
I said I was talking to Monicafrom CBS and I told him what I
had learned about regionaladvertising on Super Bowl, and I
could literally see Amit's eyeslike lighting up and he said I
love the idea because herealized the potential of making
Gong look so much bigger thanwe really were at the time.
This was 2019 or 2020.
(15:03):
So this was still pretty earlydays for Gong and we wanted to
shout off the rooftops how bigwe are and how important we're
going to be, and we wanted toget to more enterprise customers
and this could be just thebreak that we were looking for
in terms of marketing perception.
So it literally took himseconds to see the potential and
he said I love it.
(15:24):
And we had a dinner the nextnight with Tim.
Our CFO, amit, said let's gotwist Tim's arm.
And so Amit, in typical Amitfashion, brought it up during
dinner.
He said Tim Udi got us anamazing deal on a Super Bowl
commercial.
At this point Tim was rollinghis eyes back, because Tim has a
famous saying.
He says the three horsemen ofthe apocalypse, according to Tim
(15:46):
Ritters, is number one SuperBowl commercials, number two
stadium naming rights and numberthree is when you want to start
flying private jets.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
That nails it yes.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
Right, tim is an amazing CFO.
He's taken other companiespublic.
He's been Google for many years.
He's a very accomplished person.
But he's got a few Tim-ismslike that and we got to him and
we didn't leave him much choiceand we made the case for it.
To cut a long story short, westill had to get through the
board.
We kind of lowered expectations, saying this is a long-term
(16:17):
brand awareness play.
We're not expecting short-termresults but if we don't see any
impact, we won't do it again,but we think it's worth doing.
And the board responded to meand Amit and they said look, we
normally wouldn't supportsomething like this for a B2B
company, but we know you haveUdi and he's probably thinking
through this and we'll know howto make the most out of it, so
we're going to allow it.
And Amit forwarded those boardemails to me with his little
(16:40):
addition at the top and hebasically wrote basically your
neck is on the line, good luck.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
Great idea.
Now you're on.
Now you got to make it up, so Ithink you then took it right
and you, you made a.
You put it together not with amillion dollar, multi-million
dollar budget, correct, you werevery clever about I think.
In your book you have a.
You have a link to it.
You can find it on YouTube aswell, right, which is, I think.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
Yeah, you can also just search Gong Super Bowl
commercial.
There's two of them.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
And it's really clever.
And then you just had thisamazing way of promoting it that
went way beyond just the SanFrancisco audience, correct.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
So we did the commercial.
We did very modest creative,below $100,000 for a Super Bowl
commercial creative and thewhole media cost was, I think,
about $250,000, including SanFrancisco, new York and Seattle
that year.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
So you hit all the tech markets yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
The whole project was like $350,000, which is real
money, especially for a startup,but it's nowhere near the $20
million that we talked about,that other companies spend and
most people assumed we had spent.
And then what I knew is thatthe random people watching the
commercial well, they're notrandom, because they're
well-targeted, but we need toget people to share it on
(17:53):
digital because that's where wehave already many followers on
LinkedIn and other social media.
And so, on Super Bowl day, westarted sharing the ad on social
media and we told our audienceif you share this commercial
with your network, we'll giveyou a special edition Gong Super
Bowl t-shirt.
And by 11 am, even before thegame started, we were out of
hundreds of t-shirts becausepeople were sharing this
(18:15):
frantically Because they lovethe idea.
Salespeople, they get excitedwhen they feel seen, like most
of us, and they love the idea ofa Super Bowl commercial talking
to salespeople and salesleaders.
And so they start sharing thiswith their network, and this had
been the first time in manyyears that a B2B company in that
space had done a Super Bowlcommercial.
So everyone was talking aboutit for weeks and so, long story
(18:36):
short, at the end of Super Bowlweek I looked to see the impact
that we had had so I could getback to Amit and my CFO, tim,
and the board.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
And hold on to your job.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
And hopefully hold on to my job for a while and I
came up with three data points.
So the first one I used Gong,for I set up a tracker in Gong
to alert me on customerconversations who mentioned our
Super Bowl commercial and Ifound hundreds of calls where
prospects came in and they saidso.
I was on the fence about Gongfor a while, but then I saw you
(19:09):
on the Super Bowl and I realizedyou're that serious of a
company that I decided to takethis call and learn more about
your product.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
I've got those calls, which is exactly what we were
dreaming of, so in the end.
So you did all these things topromote it and I think you
actually did it before a lot ofother folks were doing this.
You did it for a B2B technologycompany, which wasn't
considered a normal thing, andthe impact did it pay for itself
.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
It absolutely did pay for itself.
So I'll just finish with theother two metrics.
So one thing I already told youI heard hundreds of customer
calls which confirmed that we'dhit the right audience, because
they went to our website andthey asked for a demo and some
of them bought the product, andI measured that even six months
later, that well over a milliondollars of sales I can attribute
to that Super Bowl commercial,which cost me a fraction of that
(19:53):
.
The second thing I saw wasduring the game and throughout
the week, our website trafficand demo requests were, of
course, peaking.
We had 30% higher traffic thatweek and a lot more demo
requests.
And then at the end of the week, my CFO, tim, came to me and
said Udi, do you realize?
We just broke our companyrecord for the most pipeline
ever created in a week, and thatwas no coincidence, of course,
(20:16):
that it happened on Super Bowlweek.
So, armed with all thatinformation from the calls, from
the website traffic and fromthe pipeline created, it was
clear that this was a reallysound investment.
And then we got an even biggerinvestment to go and do that
again next year.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
Amazing, that's awesome, and you have so many
great instances of that in thebook.
So you mentioned this in thebeginning, right?
A lot of B2B marketers try toplay it safe, but also, you know
, you're saying be courageous,stand out.
And so to grab attention, a lotof us, as marketers, say be
noisy, stand out, don't beignored.
On the other hand, you want toget measurable results, right?
(20:52):
So it's a conundrum.
So here's the question Ifeveryone's being noisy, does it
make it a lot harder to cutthrough the noise, and do you
view that as a contradiction oras an opportunity?
Speaker 2 (21:02):
It's an opportunity.
Here's why because I think mostpeople want to be noisy, but
they won't do what it takes tobe noisy and noticed.
And here's the problem with mostmarketing and why it sucks
because people follow so-calledbest practices that are, in fact
, just boring practices.
They're doing what everyone isdoing because either they don't
(21:25):
feel that they have the freedomor the inspiration to do
something different, or becausethey feel that to become an
authority in their field, theyhave to look like the oldest,
biggest companies, and thosecompanies tend to become very
bland and boring becausedecisions are made by committee
and they're trying to pleaseeveryone, and the most they're
(21:46):
spying for is not to lose theirjob.
And so I think that's a verylow bar which is pretty easy to
cut through if you have thecourage to do that, if you take
a bold stand, if you choose orcreate an environment that
tolerates that and celebratesthat around you.
And so I'll give you a coupleof examples of what I'm talking
(22:07):
about.
Right, it goes from the type ofcontent that you're producing
to the tone of voice that you'reproducing, to the tone of voice
that you're using, to thevisual identity.
Let's maybe touch on each for anexample.
So, when you think about thetype of content you're putting
out there, what do mostcompanies put out there?
It's all about their products,right?
Look at our amazing features,look at our amazing capabilities
.
Here's a customer case study.
(22:27):
Hey, that's boring, everyone'sdoing that.
But it's not only boring, it'salso ineffective.
And here's why Because mostmarketers by now have heard
about the 95-5 rule, whichstates that only about 5% of
your target market is currentlyin market for a solution like
yours.
But what do marketers do?
They put out all these salesoffers which are only speaking
(22:51):
to those 5% of the market.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
Right, I mean we're all, because, as John Miller
would talk about, right, ourcollective friend John Miller,
he said we got over due to hissuccess.
We got over gold on marketingqualified leads, meaning leads
of people who are ready to buy.
Correct, and that's all we'retasked upon is and so we're not
hitting.
The other 95% are the ones wewant to get at some point, and
(23:15):
if we're not getting to them,how are you going to get them if
you're bombarding them withsales offer when they're not in
the zone?
Here's an example and basically,I think what you're saying
you're pissing them off Becauseyou're just pushing them to sell
.
You're pushing them to buy.
Speaker 2 (23:35):
You're not only not selling to them now, but you're
reducing your chances of sellingthem in the future because
they're going to unsubscribe andunfollow you.
So you've actually lost theright to communicate with them.
Here's an example that everyconsumer will find relatable,
rajiv.
Let's say you're researchingabout your next car.
You want to buy a car.
You're going all to the carmanufacturer websites.
You're comparing the features,the pricing, the color, finishes
.
You finally found your perfectcar and you bought it right Now,
two months later, are you stillgoing to all these car websites
(23:59):
and researching their featuresand want to know about their
latest deals and financing?
No, you're not, because youjust bought a new car, right?
You're going to make yourselfhappy with it, hopefully for the
next few years, before yousearch for a new car.
So think about that.
What would you do if thoseother car manufacturers kept
bombarding you with their salesads and newsletters?
You're going to unsubscribe, ofcourse.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
I'm going to block.
Well, nowadays thoseknuckleheads text me, so I'm
going to block them forever andI'm going to call them junk.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
There you go.
Now they've lost the right tocommunicate with you, but that's
what B2B marketers are stilldoing so much of the time.
They're bombarding unwantedaudiences with unsolicited sales
messages.
And so, getting back to whatthe great marketers are doing,
they have separate marketingplans for the 5%.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
Absolutely, give them sales offers that are relevant
and you might If you wantsomeone that's ready, you want
to pull them in.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
I want to pull the 95 in and keep them top of mind.
I want them to think of mybrand every time they need
something in my space, even ifit's in two years from now.
I want to have a relationshipwith them from now until then.
I want them to look forward tothat next email or next social
post they see for my brand.
I don't want them to block me.
I want them to share it withall their friends because it's
(25:11):
that helpful and that valuableto them.
And so we built a plan for the95% at Gong.
We called it Gong Labs and weput out there really, really
valuable content for salespeopleabout everything from how to
open the perfect cold call tohow to follow up on an email, to
when to use curses and swearwords to increase your win rates
(25:32):
.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
That was one of my favorite.
You had studies on this fromwhat 20,000 calls right.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
You were able to we did that on tens of thousands of
calls, we found that thesalespeople who mirror their
buyer's language by dropping aS-bomb or an F-word actually
increase their win rates by upto 8%.
Now I just gave you and thelisteners a ton of value without
selling you my product.
And if you know salespeople,you're probably going to mention
this next time you talk to them, because it's a fun story and
(26:01):
anecdote.
And that's how our contentstarted becoming viral.
People were sharing Gong Labscontent years before they ever
bought the product, because itwas providing so much value.
So that's an example ofproviding valuable content that
people don't need to buy yourproduct to get value from.
And that's how the memory linkbetween what actually works in
sales, how to succeed in sales,and Gong is created.
(26:23):
And so in six or 12 or 18months, when you're ready to buy
, what's the first thing you'regoing to think of?
Gong?
So that's how we do that withcontent.
And then two other quick noteson the tone of voice and visual
identity.
So for tone of voice, we werealso very deliberate.
We knew that most brands to tryand sound authoritative.
They sound very buttoned up,they sound very stuffy, almost
(26:46):
condescending.
We've all read these posts andmore and more companies are
adopting this.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
Yeah, yeah, you know you guys are.
You could just be more playful,right.
I think you found that in youraudience to appeal to
salespeople, you had to standout right and be much more
playful.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
If you're going out to a bar and you bump against
someone at the bar while you'rewaiting for your drink and they
start talking like that you knowmore and more companies do that
Are you going to stay around?
Speaker 1 (27:10):
and hang out with them, or are you going to?
Speaker 2 (27:11):
grab your drink and run to the other side.
Not going to happen, yeah Right, so you want to hang out with
someone approachable andfriendly and helpful, and that's
the tone of voice that wedeveloped at Gong, and people
stuck around and brought theirfriends and wanted to hang out.
And then, finally, when we cameto our visual identity, we also
wanted it to match ourpersonality that we built, and
so we looked around us at dozensof B2B sites and at that time
(27:33):
this was like 2018 when wedesigned our first visual
identity everyone was using whatone of my team members called
Series A blues.
They're the most unoffensivecolors.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
Boring-ass blue, that's right.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
Boring-ass blue.
It pairs beautifully withwhites and grays and it's
absolutely indistinguishablefrom a million other sites.
But everyone was doing those,so we thought, okay, what can we
do?
That's the farthest away fromthat and would actually stand
out.
So we chose fuchsia, pink andbright purple and we slapped on
a crazy bulldog as our mascots.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
The bulldog rocks, I got to say that Everyone loves
their dog Everyone, yeah, so youcreated a personality all
around it.
So let me ask you, like whatthis actually leads me to said
this is getting around thenotion of being courageous,
right.
So marketers want to becourageous, they want to stand
out.
In your background you you hadlike a dramatic arts background
a bit right.
(28:24):
So you've been a performer, soyou're used to standing out, but
not a lot.
A lot of marketers aren't.
We're standing delivered sortsof folks.
So how do you create a cultureof that internal of courage to
go stand out like that?
What were some, just a coupleof key things that you did to
(28:44):
foster that?
It sounds like Amit, your CEO,was open, very open to that.
I mean, the name of the companykind of gave it away, right.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
But it was more than open.
He was an inspiration and hewas driving us to do that.
I think he was driving me toalways think bigger and crazier,
and I, in turn, tried to do thesame with my leaders on my team
, and they did the same withtheir people.
So, by constantly driving eachother.
You know, there's no better wayto demonstrate that we want
(29:13):
crazy ideas than by coming upwith them ourselves and by
driving our people to come upwith them, like nothing was ever
big enough or crazy enough.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
Did you?
Did you give out awards forpeople who did that?
Did you recognize them?
Did you Absolutely?
When you interviewed them, didyou ask them about the nutty
things that they did to see?
Speaker 2 (29:30):
Because you weren't crazy but you also want them to
get work done right.
So there's that, yes.
So I think it's a combination.
It's a combination.
It's a great point you bring up.
You know, in Adam Grant's greatbook Think Again he talks about
there's a chapter where he talksabout how to encourage teams to
come up with great ideas and dothat.
And I read that and I realizedthat that's kind of exactly what
(29:50):
we did with my team and he saidit's a combination of two
things because, just like yousaid, it's not enough to drive
crazy ideas.
We're also mission driven andwe have goals to hit and we have
a business to support.
He gave examples and Adam Grantgave examples from teams at
NASA and other places where theyneeded to land a rocket on the
moon or back safely on Earth.
So how do they do that?
(30:12):
But they also have to be really,really creative to solve
problems along the way.
So one way to drive thecreativity and give people the
freedom, it's a state known aspsychological safety, where you
make it safe for people to comeout with crazy ideas.
You don't knock down any ideasand you let people speak freely
and when they start feeling safe, then their mind opens.
And now we're almost allcreative when we have the right
(30:36):
environment to do that in and ifwe know that we don't need to
be afraid to bring up an idea.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
So what's the one thing you did to do that?
Speaker 2 (30:42):
We used to have brainstorming meetings where we
literally listed on thewhiteboard everyone's craziest
ideas.
I remember one that we listedyears ago but only have now just
started to implement was I'mlike there's so many puns and
jokes we can make about salesand animals.
I wanted to shoot a video atthe zoo.
We actually got in touch withthe three Bay Area zoos, trying
(31:04):
to get a permit to film in oneof them.
We couldn't manage to do it,but now, with green screen and
AI technology, I've startedcreating a whole series of
promotion videos for my book,each of them with a different
animal, so you'll see those soonon social media, but that came
up years ago in a teambrainstorming meeting.
We're like, let's just throw outideas and there's no bad ideas
at that point, and then westarted narrowing down and
(31:25):
voting the best ones and thengoing off and producing them.
And one way of doing this isinspiration is everywhere, rajiv
.
I remember thinking of crazylocations for otherwise pretty
mundane videos like a conferencepromo, and my inspiration was
that there was this thing a fewyears ago, this trend called
extreme ironing.
If you haven't Googled back onYouTube, prepare to spend more
(31:48):
time Go to search for extremeironing on YouTube, you will see
people with an ironing boardand an iron and clothes doing
ironing while scuba diving,while skydiving, while mountain
climbing, like in the weirdestenvironments they're ironing
clothes.
It's the funniest thing.
And if you just think of thatidea, why not do that for B2B
(32:09):
marketing?
And so when we happened to havea management meeting in greece
one year and it was before oneof our conferences I grabbed one
of my team members, chris, andwe were up in the acropolis in
athens, greece, and I said thisis where we're going to shoot
our conference promo video.
And we did that.
That happened.
We have a promo video for ourfirst celebrate conference shot
at the acropolis in greece andof course, it got a lot of
(32:30):
attention because people arelike whoa, we've never seen this
before.
That's nuts.
Speaker 1 (32:34):
So is that something you actively push as part of
pushing courage?
Get people out of their element, out of their normal world,
take them places or encouragethem to do things outside to
bring those ideas back in.
Speaker 2 (32:48):
A hundred percent.
Inspiration is everywhere.
If you look at B2C brands, theytend to be more courageous
because they have so much noise.
And B2C brands tend to be morecourageous If you look at some
of what they're doing.
A lot of brands were doing andstill are these like man on the
street videos.
So when Devin Reed was on myteam, he had this great idea
let's do a man on a street onthe Embarcadero in San Francisco
(33:10):
.
He went out with a videographerand came back with incredible
funny footage where he wasinterviewing people on the
street about what they like andhate about salespeople and it
was a hilarious video.
Oh God, that's brilliant and itgot a ton of engagement.
At some point there was apigeon standing next to him.
He handed the mic to the pigeonand asked the pigeon what they
thought about salespeople.
That's a type of moment thatpeople crack up about and
(33:33):
there's just so few brands thatdare go to those places.
Speaker 1 (33:35):
And then you can take that video clip and put it in
your email right A little gif init, so as part of your outreach
, all right.
So, udi, this has beenfantastic.
We're now going to open ourminds a little further and play
the Spark Tank game.
So here we go.
Welcome to the Spark Tank game.
So here we go, welcome to theSpark Tank, where we dive into
(33:55):
the minds of marketingtrailblazers and ignite the
power of bold thinking.
This is the ultimate wordassociation challenge, where
every response could uncover anew dimension of courageous
marketing or reveal what happenswhen a CMO's brain is put on
shuffle mode.
This is where daring strategiesmeet spontaneous thought, where
brand building collides withthe art of human connection and
where a single word will unlocka universe of innovative ideas.
(34:18):
Think of it as a bungee jumpinginto the marketing subconscious
, exhilarating, revealing andjust right amount of controlled
chaos.
Here's how it works.
I'll start with a word and, udi, you'll respond with the first
word that comes to mind nosecond guessing, no filters.
Then I'll respond with yourword and, udi, you'll respond
with the first word that comesto mind no second guessing, no
filters.
Then I'll respond with yourword and we'll keep this chain
association going for aboutthree or four volleys.
So are you ready, udi?
(34:39):
I am ready, let's do this.
All right, let's go have somefun with this.
We'll start with brand.
Speaker 2 (34:49):
What people say about you Promise.
Speaker 1 (35:07):
Keep it, keep it, oh gosh, keep it, strength no no,
no, I think it's about so.
Speaker 2 (35:12):
the obvious is, like what I said before about the
boring practices, best practices.
You don't have to literally dothings the loudest and the
hardest to be thought of as agreat leader.
I mean, just look at someonelike Tim Cook leading Apple.
He's a soft-spoken person.
He's not the outgoingcharismatic person like Steve
Jobs was, but he's brought Appleto their highest valuation ever
(35:33):
, which is many many timesbigger than Steve Jobs ever
brought the company.
You can be a soft-spoken.
What's the sentence?
Speak softly and carry a bigstick.
Speaker 1 (35:42):
Teddy Roosevelt yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:43):
There you go.
You can absolutely be a verystrong leader without being the
loudest person in the room.
Speaker 1 (35:49):
That's right.
I feel like saying somethingmore akin to today.
We speak loudly and carry awhite flag, but anyways, we'll
go from that.
Here's another one Purple PinkTapestry.
Speaker 2 (36:01):
Alignment why?
Speaker 1 (36:03):
alignment.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
Because?
So this topic is so importantthat I dedicated a full chapter
in my book about it, the lastchapter of the book.
I called it your half of atwo-headed dragon.
And by that I mean that I'venever seen a go-to-market team
succeed without impeccablealignment between sales and
marketing.
And if you wanted to expandthat, you should also, of course
, align well with customersuccess and finance and other
(36:27):
teams.
But those two together are theonly way to drive successful
go-to-market.
And it's a tapestry.
There's all these marketers andthere's all these salespeople,
and in many companies they don'ttrust each other, they don't
have rapport and they just go ondoing their own thing, and none
of them are maximizing theirpotential by doing that.
Speaker 1 (36:44):
So maybe in your mind the tapestry was I had a bunch
of colors.
I thought you were going to gothe purple cow route, but you
actually took it in a morespecial way, which is in that
tapestry there can be multiplewild colors, but they have to
work together.
Speaker 2 (37:00):
They have to work together and the headline is
that marketing exists, in mymind to make sales easier.
And if you make that clear toyour team and you make that
clear to the sales team and youshow and demonstrate how you're
making their sales easier, thenguess what?
They will cooperate with youand they will follow up on the
leads you brought back from thetrade show and they will give
you feedback when something isnot landing with customers.
(37:22):
And that's the type ofrelationship you need to succeed
in marketing by demonstratinghow you're making sales easier.
That's right.
Speaker 1 (37:29):
All right, here's our last one.
I have a bunch of words I canuse but I'm going to pick magic
Experience.
Speaker 2 (37:42):
That's what we all want.
If you go to Disneyland.
Speaker 1 (37:44):
Yeah, change, I guess I thought.
Well, here's my response tothat.
The great.
Speaker 2 (37:52):
Houdini.
I knew that would come and biteme back in the behind, so who's
the great Houdini?
Speaker 1 (37:58):
What is this magic?
Who's this magical person?
Speaker 2 (38:02):
I was a magician in my childhood years.
I did magic shows on Israelitelevision and shopping malls
and other.
I did hundreds of birthdayparties and all those events and
gained quite a lot of stageexperience and with my first
name, udi, it was kind of onlynatural.
I didn't really have a choiceto pick the stage name, udini,
so that was the name I ran withand I think growing up and
(38:24):
transitioning from theperforming arts, I did music and
magic and puppeteering and allthat into marketing, which is
really creativity in service ofcapitalism.
If you ask me, I still want toput on a show and I want to put
on an experience, whether it's amarketing event or a webinar or
a podcast, like we're doingtoday.
I want to entertain people, Iwant to educate people, I want
(38:47):
them to feel something.
I want them to walk away withan experience.
I don't care if they don'tremember every single framework
and lesson, but I want them toremember how they felt and that
they were inspired and that'smagic.
It's the same feeling you getwhen you walk into a Disney park
or you watch an amazing movie.
I want more marketing to holditself accountable to that same
bar.
Speaker 1 (39:07):
I mean, that is what everything that Steve Jobs and
Apple talks about is capturingmagic and Disney.
It's Disney, too, like you'retalking about 100%.
So let me ask you I mean, youtalked about how you started as
a performer, or you grew up as aperformer, but you decided not
to go that way.
You went into technology.
When was that point where yousaid you know what I got to go
(39:31):
into high tech?
Or was there a moment, aproject?
Where did you, you know, howdid you spark that passion?
Speaker 2 (39:39):
So the performing art that I was maybe doing most
seriously for years was music.
I was playing on the hotelcircuit and the wedding circuit
and all that stuff.
Speaker 1 (39:48):
And I was having lots of fun, and I still play.
Speaker 2 (39:56):
I still play the piano, even occasionally at
concerts as an accompanist,because I just really enjoy it,
and I was jamming at the BerkleeSchool of Jazz for a couple of
years before COVID.
But A I don't think I have whatit takes.
For the daily grind to be trulyexceptional.
You need a ton of talent, whichI don't have enough of, but
also just hours and hours ofpractice and improving.
And I remember growing up inIsrael.
I majored in music in highschool because I was that
(40:17):
serious about it and I saw howmy teachers, who were some of
the best musicians in thecountry, were living.
And they were all living prettymuch small apartments, running
from gig to gig, doing a weddinghere, chamber music concert
there, teaching a student there,and I thought, well, this is
how the best musicians areliving.
I don't know that I want thatlifestyle.
I want something with morestability, with more options.
(40:40):
And when my first job, kind ofafter my army service, kind of
landed in my lap in a techcompany which I never thought of
myself as going into, I kind ofliked the range of things that
I did every day.
It was kind of a productmanager job, my first role.
I loved the variety of it.
I loved that I was learningevery day.
(41:02):
I loved the stability that itwas full-time, that it was good
pay all the things that arealmost impossible to get from a
musical or other performingcareer.
And that's how I kind ofstarted through product
management, and productmanagement for those who've
never done the role is, ofcourse, yeah, no, I, yeah, you
have to, really you're.
Speaker 1 (41:20):
You're working closely, you're understanding
the market, you're working withthis a lot of times with the
seat, you're working with theCEO.
If you're on a founding team,you're understanding what the
product market looks like andyou're working with engineering.
And then you go from productinto product marketing, where
you then take that and bring itout to messages to the market,
where you build those initialmarketing, market-friendly
(41:41):
messages.
Speaker 2 (41:42):
Yeah, and I enjoyed working both with the market
side and with the engineeringside.
But I saw that I truly shinewhen I'm working with the market
to get them excited about whatthe product can do for them and
show them all the possibilitiesof how they will get value from
it.
And so when I was in one of mylater product management roles,
I talked to my CEO and I said,look, I think the company would
(42:04):
benefit if we had a full-timemarketing role, because we don't
have it right now and I'm kindof doing it as part of my
product management role and wewould get the word out there and
we'd get more business.
And he said, yeah, I agree.
And I said, good, I've got justthe guy for you.
And I told him of my plan, thatis, to hire someone that I'll
train to replace me in productmanagement and I will transition
(42:24):
and be the first full-timemarketer at the company.
And he bought into the idea andthat's how I created and which
company was that?
This was a company called SarinTechnologies.
What?
Speaker 1 (42:33):
year what year was that?
This was a company called SarinTechnologies.
Speaker 2 (42:35):
What year?
What year was that?
Oh my gosh, this must have beenaround 2005.
Speaker 1 (42:39):
Wow, so this is awesome, so you've-.
Exactly 20 years ago, you setup your own transition into
something that you would love todo.
This is cool.
Speaker 2 (42:46):
And I did that for every other role.
I've never stepped into a rolethat someone else has held
before me.
So I've been the firstmarketing leader at five
companies, the first productleader at two companies and I'm
the first evangelist at Gong.
So that's kind of the onlything I know how to do.
Speaker 1 (43:01):
That's great, and one of the things you did you
talked about it earlier workingwith Amit Bendoff at three
different companies over 25years.
So, beyond a lot of what I liketo talk about is the
collaboration that makes yougreat, right, or what drives the
innovator right, and you'retalking about it from the point
of view of not just what you didbut also how you came together
as a team.
So, beyond your professionalrelationship with Amit, what's
(43:25):
the most compelling factor orvision that he shared about Gong
that made you decide to join asthe first marketer, right,
especially given what you did atother startups?
Speaker 2 (43:37):
Right.
So I think what's magical aboutthe way that Amit and I have
been working together for allthese years at different
companies is that he lives withhis head up in the clouds, his
feet are grounded on the ground,but I would say that he's very
high level idea man.
I would say that he's very highlevel idea man and I am closer
(43:57):
to the ground, so I still havebig ideas, nowhere near those
that Amit has, but when he comeswith a big idea and I get
excited about it, I canoperationalize it, and that's
why our duo has worked well forso many years, because he will
come with a big idea and thenfive minutes later he's already
on his next big idea.
But he needs someone tooperationalize like actually
(44:20):
turn the dream into a plan,right.
As the old saying goes, greatidea without a plan is just a
dream.
Like it's not going to happenand you can't have a goal
without a plan.
And so when he came with theseideas, I cherry picked the ones
that I thought would be mostimpactful but also doable, and
then I operationalize them, andI think he appreciates that
partnership with me, and when hecalled me back in 2016, he said
(44:43):
this was after a couple ofyears that we had worked in
separate companies.
He said would you remember thecrazy idea I told you about for
this call recording idea?
It could be a new idea insteadof a CRM.
I said yes.
He said, well, we built theproduct, an early version, and
we rolled it out to 12 betacustomers and within three
months 11 of them turned intopaying customers.
(45:03):
So I think we have earlyproduct market fit and we should
start marketing this thing.
Do you have time to come helpus?
And I said yes, I will make thetime to come help you.
What took you so long?
Speaker 1 (45:12):
He already gave you product market fit right as part
of before you came in.
You didn't have to prove it andbe like so many marketers.
When I, when we work with earlystage companies, super early
stage companies, they're likethis shit works, you know, let's
go to marketing and marketingwill make it happen and
marketing fails because theyreally don't have product market
fit.
They have a founder that knowshow to sell and that doesn't
mean you have fit, and so youknew that before you walked in.
(45:35):
So that's brilliant, yes.
Speaker 2 (45:36):
It could not have been a better sort of opening
situation for me to come in witheven 11 product, 11 customers,
but they they loved what theywere using and that's an
absolute necessity to startdoing marketing that scales,
because so many marketers that Ifeel for and I've been in that
situation we fail because wecome into a company where it
doesn't matter what we do.
If the product doesn't stick,if it doesn't provide clear
(45:59):
value, if we're telling a storythat the customers don't believe
in, it's not going to work.
It's just not going to work, soit's important as we head to a
close here, that I give all thecredit to the product people at
Gong who build this amazingproduct, because I could have
not achieved a fraction of mysuccess at another company
without the success of Gong'sproduct and how well it
(46:21):
continues to meet its products,its customers' needs.
Speaker 1 (46:25):
That's great.
Now, if I go back to your, youmentioned your background about
performing arts, magic music.
What was the most unexpectedway, a skill or experience from
those early passions influencedyour approach to marketing,
particularly in the early days,before focusing on B2B.
Speaker 2 (46:44):
I would have to say that if I look back at my
magician days of doing magic,it's all about doing some
sleight of hand, somethingsometimes complicated, in a way
that's almost completely hiddenfrom the audience, and what they
see is so simple and sometimesincredible that it appears like
(47:04):
magic.
And I think Steve Jobs saidsomething to that effect that
technology advanced enough isindistinguishable from magic.
And that's what we're trying todo in marketing to do all the
hard work and make thingscomplicated on ourselves so that
we can make it so simple thatit's magical to the customers,
whether it's how they use ourproduct, whether it's how they
(47:25):
experience our events, whetherit's how they consume our
content, whether it's how theynavigate our website.
Make it so simple anddelightful that it's magical.
Our website.
Make it so simple anddelightful that it's magical.
And the way to do that is takeon the hard work ourselves doing
behind the scenes, you know, inthe sausage factory, that
nobody else has to see, so thatthe experience externally is so
simple.
It's magic, that's amazing.
Speaker 1 (47:47):
What's your personal moonshot?
Speaker 2 (47:51):
That I've achieved or not achieved yet.
Speaker 1 (47:54):
What do you want to?
What are you aiming for next?
I mean you've had a lot ofgreat successes.
I mean you just released thiswonderful book.
Speaker 2 (48:01):
Yes, I just released my wonderful book Courageous
Marketing.
Well, you tell me if it'swonderful when people read it.
Speaker 1 (48:06):
I love it.
By the way, I had a blast.
The reason I got through it soquickly is because of your
engaging writing style, chockfull of stories.
You didn't bore me with a lotof frameworks, and when you did
give me a framework, you put itto action with examples.
Speaker 2 (48:20):
I appreciate that.
Yeah, this might be one of thelast books you'll read that
wasn't written by AI.
You know, I actually wroteevery one of the 40,000 words.
Speaker 1 (48:27):
Those are your words.
Speaker 2 (48:28):
Nothing went through a chat engine, never went
through a chat engine, not onceit's all my words.
I know I'm so old fashioned, sowhat is my moonshot At this
point?
I'm really about I think I'veachieved what I wanted to
achieve in marketing and inbusiness, and I'm really about
helping and mentoring andinspiring the next generation of
marketers, and so I'm hoping mybook will help me achieve that
(48:51):
and get into the hands and mindsof many, many marketers and get
into the hands and minds ofmany, many marketers and who
knows what doors it'll open formy next chapter.
Not that I'm going anywhereanytime soon.
I'm having a blast at Gong.
We're growing fast, we're doingreally, really well and as long
as I'm making an impact andthey will have me I'm sticking
around.
Speaker 1 (49:07):
Oh, they're going to keep you around, I would
definitely say.
Well, one more question If youhave a lot of great sayings in
your book, if you were to leavethe audience with one, what
would it be?
Speaker 2 (49:19):
Ooh, just one.
I think if you remember the onething that business is
creativity in service ofcapitalism, or, in other words,
marketing's goal is to makesales easier.
If that is your driver, if youdrive your team to think every
day how to make sales easier,you will succeed, the team will
succeed, you will have bettersales marketing alignment, your
(49:42):
sales leaders will be advocatingfor you as a marketer, and
that's the best endorsement youcould ever get and that's
probably the key to successfulcareer in marketing is
understanding that your goal isto drive business in the most
creative ways that you can, butwith measurable results.
Speaker 1 (50:02):
I love it.
Udi, thank you so much.
I just thought today's sessionwas super fascinating.
Your book is great.
I love having you on and I hopeI can have you on again.
So thank you so much forjoining me.
Speaker 2 (50:13):
I'm up for it, rajiv.
Thank you so much for having meand thanks for helping launch
my book Courageous Marketing,now available everywhere books
are sold.
Speaker 1 (50:19):
That's right.
Udi's a game changer and it's afantastic read.
Thank you for joining me.
That was truly enjoyable, agreat conversation with Udi.
He's just such a natural andyou can sense his energy,
enthusiasm, confidence, passion,and I think if there's
(50:42):
something I can take away or youcan take away from this is that
where you start, if you're opento it, can lead in so many ways
, and in his story he goes frombeing a kid magician to someone
who goes in the military,figures out where he wants to go
next and, in doing so, finds away to express himself in a way
(51:04):
that enriches many companies,many people himself, and then
shares it with so many others,like, if you think about well
Gong, you know it records calls,you think that's all it is, but
it's actually truly a revenueintelligence platform, which is
what the category that Amit himand his team created.
(51:25):
And it's that notion of taking,of understanding what people
are saying about you and whatyour team is saying, gleaning
insights from that and thenbuilding from that, and you can
see the flywheel-like passion orflywheel-like capability that
they have, from Gong Labs to themessaging they create, to the
(51:47):
marketing that they do, how itall feeds back and being
courageous is very hard inmarketing.
The average tenure of a CMO isas little as 18 months for many
companies, and it's a hard joband you really have to stand out
and you have to also be metricsdriven while being so creative,
(52:07):
and I think Udi is a greatexample of that, as have so many
marketers been on the Spark ofAges podcast.
I love how, by talking to agreat person like him, I get to
read his book and learn moreabout him and I get inspired to
do a lot more with what I'mdoing every single day, so I'm
(52:29):
glad he was able to convey thatfor me and for you.
So thank you so much forlistening today.
If you enjoyed the pod, pleasetake a moment to rate it and
comment.
You can find us on Apple,spotify, youtube and everywhere
podcasts can be found.
What's especially cool onYouTube is that you can see the
video now, so that's really fun,and hopefully you'll see us on
(52:50):
LinkedIn with our clips.
The show is produced by AnandShah and Sunneit Parikh,
production assistance by TarynTalley and edited by Sean Maher
and Aiden McGarvey.
I'm your host, rajiv Parikh,from Position Squared.
We're an AI-driven growthmarketing company based in
Silicon Valley.
Come visit us at position2.com.
This has been an effing funnyproduction and we'll catch you
(53:13):
next time.
And remember, folks be evercurious.
Welcome to the Spark of Ages podcast.
Today we're chatting with UdiLedergård, the chief evangelist
at Gong.
Udi's got quite the story.
He was actually Gong's firstmarketing hire and their CMO,
helping the company skyrocketfrom hundreds of thousands to
hundreds of millions in revenueand reach that coveted
multi-billion dollar,multi-unicorn status.
(00:30):
He's the mastermind who'shelped define the revenue
intelligence category and createGong's iconic human-centered
brand.
This isn't Udi's first rodeo.
He led marketing at five B2Bstartups and is known for his
bold approach to branding andstorytelling that puts people
first.
When he's not evangelizing forGong, udi wears many hats as an
(00:52):
author, speaker, mentor, angelinvestor and board member.
He's passionate about startups,storytelling and creating
unforgettable brand experiences.
In fact, udi's newest book,courageous Marketing, which
we're going to explore with Uditoday, debuts on April 10th.
So ask Google, your AI, amazonwherever you get a book from to
(01:14):
get more details on where tograb it.
Udi graduated with both hismaster's and MBA from the
College of Management AcademicStudies in Israel, which,
interesting fact, is the largestcollege in Israel.
Some of the key takeaways youcan expect from this episode
Bold and courageous go-to-marketstrategies, which emphasizes
taking risks and building boldbrands.
(01:36):
How to build and inspirehigh-performing marketing teams.
The story of how Udi managed toconvince his company Gong to do
a Super Bowl commercial and,finally, insights on how Udi's
mind operates in our ultimateword association challenge when
we put him into the spark tank.
Udi, welcome to the Spark ofAges.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
Oh my gosh, Rajiv, what a hard act to follow.
Thanks for having me to follow.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
Thanks for having me.
So great to have you.
You and I have run into eachother at so many common events.
We must have at least a hundredcommon LinkedIn connections.
And so it's just a thrill tohave you here, especially around
your brand new book.
So it's a great title.
As I read through the advancedcopy, I deeply appreciated how
(02:30):
you were able to take yourconcepts, which a lot of folks
may understand, but really bringit to light with great stories,
great ways of bringing thepoint across and helping to
encourage me to do bolder things.
So maybe you can talk about theconcept and what sparked your
interest to write it.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Yeah, absolutely so.
First, thank you for supportingmy book launch.
I'm super excited to haveCourageous Marketing, the B2B
Marketer's Playbook for CareerSuccess, come out on April 10th,
everywhere books are sold.
Here's where this book was bornfrom.
We talked about this before westarted recording.
There's over a hundred hours ofme talking on YouTube and
Spotify on podcasts and webinarsand events that I've been doing
(03:11):
over the years, and a lot ofpeople want to learn the lessons
that I've accumulated in 20years of B2B marketing, almost
half of them from Gong, where Iwas fortunate to be marketer
number one and build a team of60 marketers who really did the
most amazing work I've ever seena marketing team do and that
helped drive the company, alongwith our amazing product, of
(03:34):
course, to a multi-billiondollar valuation and, as we just
published a couple of weeks agoso I can finally talk about it
in public to 300 million in ARRso far and growing very fast.
And so a lot of people wantedto learn the lessons and I
wanted to scale myself, becausethere's only so many podcasts I
can do in so many stages I canbe on, and I thought a book
would be a great way of doingthis.
(03:54):
But during my CMO years.
My schedule just did not allowme time to sit down and write
down those stories and lessons,and let alone interview other
people and make it into a fun,delightful book to read.
But then two years ago I shiftedinto my current role as a chief
evangelist and that gave me alittle bit more time than I have
as a CMO and that's when Ithought would be the perfect
(04:16):
time.
So for the last 15 months or soI've been working on writing
down the best stories, the bestlessons, updating them and then
interviewing over a dozen people, half of which worked with me
at Gong, and they told me aboutpoints of views that I didn't
even know about, how we createdthings from our Super Bowl
commercial to our content,marketing, our event experiences
(04:39):
.
And I put all those points ofview into the book because I
think it's really important tounderstand how we build such an
amazing team, doing theirabsolute best work and giving
them a safe environment in whichthey can experiment and try
things and, yes, often fail aswell but we celebrate those as
learnings and move on.
(05:00):
Cmos names that you'll allrecognize from Michelle Tate
from MailChimp, tricia Gilmanfrom Box, dave Gerhardt, now at
Exit 5, originally at Drift andAnthony Canada who built the
customer success category atGainsight and so many other
great marketers, and as I wasputting all these stories
(05:20):
together and validating myapproach and the nuances that
all the different CMOs brought,I realized what the book was
really about.
So it's kind of funny because Ihad a different working title
when I started working on it,but only in the final rounds of
editing I realized that allthese stories were about finding
courage and doing somethingthat was counterintuitive, often
(05:42):
going against the grain andagainst the established best
practices which in most casesare, in reality, boring
practices that will get youordinary results.
And all these people, and allthe people on my team and these
other great CMOs andoccasionally myself as well we
found our voice, we took a verybold stand and we used a very
strong point of view, and all ofthese together constitute what
(06:05):
I now call courageous marketing.
So I hope to inspire marketers,whether they're up and coming
or seasoned, to take the boringout of B2B marketing and take a
strong, bold point of view andcreate awesome marketing,
because the world deserves itfrom us.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
I definitely agree.
I mean, there's so many.
So the easy thing to do whenyou're marketing is just to
stick to the main messages ofyour product and not really work
to stand out, and you'vedefinitely done that.
I thought one of the bigtakeaways I got from your book
was the notion of you may besmall, but you present large.
(06:41):
Maybe talk about some of thatbut you present large.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
Maybe talk about some of that.
Yeah, I call that idea punchingabove your weight, which I
think is kind of fun and catchyand everyone wants to do that.
Right, I was a scrawny littlekid.
I definitely didn't do anypunching.
I was the one on the receivingend of the punches, so at least
in marketing I get to punchabove my weight a little, and
the idea is that many, manystartups and even larger
companies.
They look out there and they seethe incumbents or big players
(07:09):
in their field or adjacent fielddoing these big marketing
investments whether they'renaming stadiums or flying
airships or Super Bowlcommercials and out-of-home
campaigns and all they can do isdream that maybe one day
they'll either be a big brand orwork for a big brand and
they'll get to do that stuff.
And I never wanted to settlefor that.
(07:29):
I was looking at thoseinspiring campaigns and programs
and growth hacks and I wantedto look like a big company and
before I get into the mechanicsof doing that, I think to
understand the importance ofthat.
Anyone who's been in a startupknows this catch 22, where you
(07:50):
want to sell to largeenterprises at some point before
you're actually ready to dothat and you realize that large
enterprises don't like buyingfrom small startups.
Large enterprises like buyingfrom guess what Other big
enterprises.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
Their safety in numbers.
Their jobs are on the line.
They're taking a risk, so theywant to buy from a place that
other people have bought from.
They want to feel comfortable.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
Exactly.
But how do you do that ifyou're a small startup?
If no big enterprises are goingto buy from you, then you'll
never reach that status.
So you're stuck in this viciouscycle of you're never big
enough to sell to those largeenterprises and beyond, being
product ready, building all theenterprise security stands and
privacy compliance andeverything you need to build.
(08:33):
Marketing has a really, reallyimportant role in appearing to
be bigger than you are, and Imake the case in the book that
marketing great marketing canmake a company appear to be two
or three years ahead of where itreally is, and that can make a
big difference in how early onlarger enterprises will take a
chance on you.
And so one simple framework thatI talk about in the book that
(08:57):
I've done and many of the CMOs Iinterviewed for the book have
also done, looks something likethis you take an offline
campaign that is typicallyassociated with large companies,
and this can be anything like abig billboard in Times Square
or a Super Bowl commercial, orwrapping cars around a
(09:18):
conference, or doing somethingthat, or taking a full page ad
in the Wall Street Journal right?
These things that everyone knowscost like tons of money, either
hundreds of thousands ormillions of dollars.
Now I'm not suggesting that yougo pay that money, because I
didn't have it in my budget andmost startups don't have it in
their budget, but what you do isyou find the smallest version
that you can afford of thosecampaigns.
(09:40):
I'll give some examples.
You go do it and then you makesure to videotape it and
photograph it and then amplifythat on all your digital assets,
whether it's your owned media,on social media and emails.
Get your employees, get yourcustomers to help you amplify
that and that's now going toyour actual target audience on
(10:03):
digital and that can make youlook much, much bigger than you
are.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
So let's break down.
Yeah, so you guys did thatreally well.
You mentioned a Super Bowlcommercial where you didn't
spend a lot.
That's right, so tell thatstory, I think that's a great
one, because we all dream, asmarketers, of doing the Super
Bowl commercial right Absolutely.
We think we have to spendmillions of dollars on it, just
to put it together, and that's$8 million a 30-second
(10:29):
commercial.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
But you didn't pay that.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
That would have depleted your first round of
funding.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
Probably, I think that was more than our first
round of funding.
So here's what happened.
I was working one day, as usual, when I got an email from
Monica, from CBS, and Monica, Ithink she just read about one of
our fundraising rounds theywere joking about and she said
hey, udi, you know, with SuperBowl coming up in a few months,
I think Gong would make anexcellent advertiser this year
(10:57):
and get your message across tomillions of people.
And I appreciated the outreach,but I responded politely.
I said, monica, I'm nowherenear the kind of budget that I'd
need for Super Bowl, but thankyou for thinking of us.
And she immediately respondedsaying Udi, I think I'll
surprise you with veryaffordable ways of being on the
Super Bowl.
I said, okay, monica, you'vereeled me in.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
That was a good hook.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
Talk to me about that You've earned a call.
You've earned a call and, evenif it was just for the
intellectual curiosity, I wantedto learn about Super Bowl
because, like what marketerdoesn't right?
So I get on the call withMonica and she explained
something to me that I'd neverheard about before because I had
assumed, like everyone, that toget on Super Bowl you need to
buy the national spot, which isabout $7 million or so for a 30
(11:41):
second in-game commercial, andthat's just for the media.
Most advertisers who do thatend up spending a few more
millions on the creative Right.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
I mean you're not going to spend $8 million on one
or $20 million on three and notspend money on the creative.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
So you spend a few more millions on the creative.
So now you're like a $10, $15,$20 million, which of course I
don't have and most advertisersdon't have.
But what Monica explained to meis that Superbowl, like most
television events, they have anational inventory of
advertising and they also have aregional inventory, and the
viewing experience is identical.
So if I'm sitting in I don'tknow Nashville, tennessee, and
(12:23):
I'm watching the game, I see afew commercials go on at
halftime.
Some of them are being servedfrom the national inventory,
along with everyone else in thenation, and others are being
served from the Nashvilleregional inventory.
That only I'm seeing, togetherwith a few zip codes next to me,
and I'm none the wiser.
I have no idea which ones areserved nationally and which ones
(12:44):
are served regionally.
So that presents an amazingopportunity for marketers, who
can identify specific regionswhere their messaging would be
most effective, to buy justthose regions, if they can
afford them, at a fraction ofthe cost of the national ad.
To give folks an idea if theyhaven't seen this math before, I
(13:04):
already said the national adcosts something like $7 million.
Well, regions can go for fiveor six figure amounts.
So what I ended up doing isbuying three regions, so San
Francisco, which is a fantasticregion for any SaaS company.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
That's your target market, right?
I mean some of my friends whorun, who work MarTech companies,
many of some of whom have beenon this podcast.
They're, you know, 40% or 50%of their revenue comes from just
this region.
Exactly, that's exactly right,there's only tech companies in
this region.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
Yeah, so I did the math.
I ran a report by CRM and I sawthat at that time, about 60% of
our customers and prospectswere in the Silicon Valley area.
Now here's the beauty of it SanFrancisco is a very small city.
It's only got a populationabout 800,000.
And so the regional media ispriced according to the
population, which, for consumerbrands, makes a lot of sense.
(13:55):
For B2B brands, that's anamazing hack, because even
though it's not a denselypopulated area.
You can get to a huge proportionof your target audience by
targeting that area.
And so, armed with thatinformation, I met my CEO, amit,
on a rooftop bar in SanFrancisco a few days later and I
(14:19):
knew I could probably get himexcited about this, and my hope
was that if I got him excitedenough, he would join forces
with me in twisting the CFO'sarm, which is the tough cookie
to get past, and maybe, justmaybe, we could actually pull
this off.
So by the time he was liftinghis second drink from the table,
I said I mean so I've got thiswild idea for you and said carry
(14:40):
on, he likes wild ideas.
I said I was talking to Monicafrom CBS and I told him what I
had learned about regionaladvertising on Super Bowl, and I
could literally see Amit's eyeslike lighting up and he said I
love the idea because herealized the potential of making
Gong look so much bigger thanwe really were at the time.
This was 2019 or 2020.
(15:03):
So this was still pretty earlydays for Gong and we wanted to
shout off the rooftops how bigwe are and how important we're
going to be, and we wanted toget to more enterprise customers
and this could be just thebreak that we were looking for
in terms of marketing perception.
So it literally took himseconds to see the potential and
he said I love it.
(15:24):
And we had a dinner the nextnight with Tim.
Our CFO, amit, said let's gotwist Tim's arm.
And so Amit, in typical Amitfashion, brought it up during
dinner.
He said Tim Udi got us anamazing deal on a Super Bowl
commercial.
At this point Tim was rollinghis eyes back, because Tim has a
famous saying.
He says the three horsemen ofthe apocalypse, according to Tim
(15:46):
Ritters, is number one SuperBowl commercials, number two
stadium naming rights and numberthree is when you want to start
flying private jets.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
That nails it yes.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
Right, tim is an amazing CFO.
He's taken other companiespublic.
He's been Google for many years.
He's a very accomplished person.
But he's got a few Tim-ismslike that and we got to him and
we didn't leave him much choiceand we made the case for it.
To cut a long story short, westill had to get through the
board.
We kind of lowered expectations, saying this is a long-term
(16:17):
brand awareness play.
We're not expecting short-termresults but if we don't see any
impact, we won't do it again,but we think it's worth doing.
And the board responded to meand Amit and they said look, we
normally wouldn't supportsomething like this for a B2B
company, but we know you haveUdi and he's probably thinking
through this and we'll know howto make the most out of it, so
we're going to allow it.
And Amit forwarded those boardemails to me with his little
(16:40):
addition at the top and hebasically wrote basically your
neck is on the line, good luck.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
Great idea.
Now you're on.
Now you got to make it up, so Ithink you then took it right
and you, you made a.
You put it together not with amillion dollar, multi-million
dollar budget, correct, you werevery clever about I think.
In your book you have a.
You have a link to it.
You can find it on YouTube aswell, right, which is, I think.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
Yeah, you can also just search Gong Super Bowl
commercial.
There's two of them.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
And it's really clever.
And then you just had thisamazing way of promoting it that
went way beyond just the SanFrancisco audience, correct.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
So we did the commercial.
We did very modest creative,below $100,000 for a Super Bowl
commercial creative and thewhole media cost was, I think,
about $250,000, including SanFrancisco, new York and Seattle
that year.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
So you hit all the tech markets yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
The whole project was like $350,000, which is real
money, especially for a startup,but it's nowhere near the $20
million that we talked about,that other companies spend and
most people assumed we had spent.
And then what I knew is thatthe random people watching the
commercial well, they're notrandom, because they're
well-targeted, but we need toget people to share it on
(17:53):
digital because that's where wehave already many followers on
LinkedIn and other social media.
And so, on Super Bowl day, westarted sharing the ad on social
media and we told our audienceif you share this commercial
with your network, we'll giveyou a special edition Gong Super
Bowl t-shirt.
And by 11 am, even before thegame started, we were out of
hundreds of t-shirts becausepeople were sharing this
(18:15):
frantically Because they lovethe idea.
Salespeople, they get excitedwhen they feel seen, like most
of us, and they love the idea ofa Super Bowl commercial talking
to salespeople and salesleaders.
And so they start sharing thiswith their network, and this had
been the first time in manyyears that a B2B company in that
space had done a Super Bowlcommercial.
So everyone was talking aboutit for weeks and so, long story
(18:36):
short, at the end of Super Bowlweek I looked to see the impact
that we had had so I could getback to Amit and my CFO, tim,
and the board.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
And hold on to your job.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
And hopefully hold on to my job for a while and I
came up with three data points.
So the first one I used Gong,for I set up a tracker in Gong
to alert me on customerconversations who mentioned our
Super Bowl commercial and Ifound hundreds of calls where
prospects came in and they saidso.
I was on the fence about Gongfor a while, but then I saw you
(19:09):
on the Super Bowl and I realizedyou're that serious of a
company that I decided to takethis call and learn more about
your product.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
I've got those calls, which is exactly what we were
dreaming of, so in the end.
So you did all these things topromote it and I think you
actually did it before a lot ofother folks were doing this.
You did it for a B2B technologycompany, which wasn't
considered a normal thing, andthe impact did it pay for itself
.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
It absolutely did pay for itself.
So I'll just finish with theother two metrics.
So one thing I already told youI heard hundreds of customer
calls which confirmed that we'dhit the right audience, because
they went to our website andthey asked for a demo and some
of them bought the product, andI measured that even six months
later, that well over a milliondollars of sales I can attribute
to that Super Bowl commercial,which cost me a fraction of that
(19:53):
.
The second thing I saw wasduring the game and throughout
the week, our website trafficand demo requests were, of
course, peaking.
We had 30% higher traffic thatweek and a lot more demo
requests.
And then at the end of the week, my CFO, tim, came to me and
said Udi, do you realize?
We just broke our companyrecord for the most pipeline
ever created in a week, and thatwas no coincidence, of course,
(20:16):
that it happened on Super Bowlweek.
So, armed with all thatinformation from the calls, from
the website traffic and fromthe pipeline created, it was
clear that this was a reallysound investment.
And then we got an even biggerinvestment to go and do that
again next year.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
Amazing, that's awesome, and you have so many
great instances of that in thebook.
So you mentioned this in thebeginning, right?
A lot of B2B marketers try toplay it safe, but also, you know
, you're saying be courageous,stand out.
And so to grab attention, a lotof us, as marketers, say be
noisy, stand out, don't beignored.
On the other hand, you want toget measurable results, right?
(20:52):
So it's a conundrum.
So here's the question Ifeveryone's being noisy, does it
make it a lot harder to cutthrough the noise, and do you
view that as a contradiction oras an opportunity?
Speaker 2 (21:02):
It's an opportunity.
Here's why because I think mostpeople want to be noisy, but
they won't do what it takes tobe noisy and noticed.
And here's the problem with mostmarketing and why it sucks
because people follow so-calledbest practices that are, in fact
, just boring practices.
They're doing what everyone isdoing because either they don't
(21:25):
feel that they have the freedomor the inspiration to do
something different, or becausethey feel that to become an
authority in their field, theyhave to look like the oldest,
biggest companies, and thosecompanies tend to become very
bland and boring becausedecisions are made by committee
and they're trying to pleaseeveryone, and the most they're
(21:46):
spying for is not to lose theirjob.
And so I think that's a verylow bar which is pretty easy to
cut through if you have thecourage to do that, if you take
a bold stand, if you choose orcreate an environment that
tolerates that and celebratesthat around you.
And so I'll give you a coupleof examples of what I'm talking
(22:07):
about.
Right, it goes from the type ofcontent that you're producing
to the tone of voice that you'reproducing, to the tone of voice
that you're using, to thevisual identity.
Let's maybe touch on each for anexample.
So, when you think about thetype of content you're putting
out there, what do mostcompanies put out there?
It's all about their products,right?
Look at our amazing features,look at our amazing capabilities
.
Here's a customer case study.
(22:27):
Hey, that's boring, everyone'sdoing that.
But it's not only boring, it'salso ineffective.
And here's why Because mostmarketers by now have heard
about the 95-5 rule, whichstates that only about 5% of
your target market is currentlyin market for a solution like
yours.
But what do marketers do?
They put out all these salesoffers which are only speaking
(22:51):
to those 5% of the market.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
Right, I mean we're all, because, as John Miller
would talk about, right, ourcollective friend John Miller,
he said we got over due to hissuccess.
We got over gold on marketingqualified leads, meaning leads
of people who are ready to buy.
Correct, and that's all we'retasked upon is and so we're not
hitting.
The other 95% are the ones wewant to get at some point, and
(23:15):
if we're not getting to them,how are you going to get them if
you're bombarding them withsales offer when they're not in
the zone?
Here's an example and basically,I think what you're saying
you're pissing them off Becauseyou're just pushing them to sell
.
You're pushing them to buy.
Speaker 2 (23:35):
You're not only not selling to them now, but you're
reducing your chances of sellingthem in the future because
they're going to unsubscribe andunfollow you.
So you've actually lost theright to communicate with them.
Here's an example that everyconsumer will find relatable,
rajiv.
Let's say you're researchingabout your next car.
You want to buy a car.
You're going all to the carmanufacturer websites.
You're comparing the features,the pricing, the color, finishes
.
You finally found your perfectcar and you bought it right Now,
two months later, are you stillgoing to all these car websites
(23:59):
and researching their featuresand want to know about their
latest deals and financing?
No, you're not, because youjust bought a new car, right?
You're going to make yourselfhappy with it, hopefully for the
next few years, before yousearch for a new car.
So think about that.
What would you do if thoseother car manufacturers kept
bombarding you with their salesads and newsletters?
You're going to unsubscribe, ofcourse.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
I'm going to block.
Well, nowadays thoseknuckleheads text me, so I'm
going to block them forever andI'm going to call them junk.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
There you go.
Now they've lost the right tocommunicate with you, but that's
what B2B marketers are stilldoing so much of the time.
They're bombarding unwantedaudiences with unsolicited sales
messages.
And so, getting back to whatthe great marketers are doing,
they have separate marketingplans for the 5%.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
Absolutely, give them sales offers that are relevant
and you might If you wantsomeone that's ready, you want
to pull them in.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
I want to pull the 95 in and keep them top of mind.
I want them to think of mybrand every time they need
something in my space, even ifit's in two years from now.
I want to have a relationshipwith them from now until then.
I want them to look forward tothat next email or next social
post they see for my brand.
I don't want them to block me.
I want them to share it withall their friends because it's
(25:11):
that helpful and that valuableto them.
And so we built a plan for the95% at Gong.
We called it Gong Labs and weput out there really, really
valuable content for salespeopleabout everything from how to
open the perfect cold call tohow to follow up on an email, to
when to use curses and swearwords to increase your win rates
(25:32):
.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
That was one of my favorite.
You had studies on this fromwhat 20,000 calls right.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
You were able to we did that on tens of thousands of
calls, we found that thesalespeople who mirror their
buyer's language by dropping aS-bomb or an F-word actually
increase their win rates by upto 8%.
Now I just gave you and thelisteners a ton of value without
selling you my product.
And if you know salespeople,you're probably going to mention
this next time you talk to them, because it's a fun story and
(26:01):
anecdote.
And that's how our contentstarted becoming viral.
People were sharing Gong Labscontent years before they ever
bought the product, because itwas providing so much value.
So that's an example ofproviding valuable content that
people don't need to buy yourproduct to get value from.
And that's how the memory linkbetween what actually works in
sales, how to succeed in sales,and Gong is created.
(26:23):
And so in six or 12 or 18months, when you're ready to buy
, what's the first thing you'regoing to think of?
Gong?
So that's how we do that withcontent.
And then two other quick noteson the tone of voice and visual
identity.
So for tone of voice, we werealso very deliberate.
We knew that most brands to tryand sound authoritative.
They sound very buttoned up,they sound very stuffy, almost
(26:46):
condescending.
We've all read these posts andmore and more companies are
adopting this.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
Yeah, yeah, you know you guys are.
You could just be more playful,right.
I think you found that in youraudience to appeal to
salespeople, you had to standout right and be much more
playful.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
If you're going out to a bar and you bump against
someone at the bar while you'rewaiting for your drink and they
start talking like that you knowmore and more companies do that
Are you going to stay around?
Speaker 1 (27:10):
and hang out with them, or are you going to?
Speaker 2 (27:11):
grab your drink and run to the other side.
Not going to happen, yeah Right, so you want to hang out with
someone approachable andfriendly and helpful, and that's
the tone of voice that wedeveloped at Gong, and people
stuck around and brought theirfriends and wanted to hang out.
And then, finally, when we cameto our visual identity, we also
wanted it to match ourpersonality that we built, and
so we looked around us at dozensof B2B sites and at that time
(27:33):
this was like 2018 when wedesigned our first visual
identity everyone was using whatone of my team members called
Series A blues.
They're the most unoffensivecolors.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
Boring-ass blue, that's right.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
Boring-ass blue.
It pairs beautifully withwhites and grays and it's
absolutely indistinguishablefrom a million other sites.
But everyone was doing those,so we thought, okay, what can we
do?
That's the farthest away fromthat and would actually stand
out.
So we chose fuchsia, pink andbright purple and we slapped on
a crazy bulldog as our mascots.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
The bulldog rocks, I got to say that Everyone loves
their dog Everyone, yeah, so youcreated a personality all
around it.
So let me ask you, like whatthis actually leads me to said
this is getting around thenotion of being courageous,
right.
So marketers want to becourageous, they want to stand
out.
In your background you you hadlike a dramatic arts background
a bit right.
(28:24):
So you've been a performer, soyou're used to standing out, but
not a lot.
A lot of marketers aren't.
We're standing delivered sortsof folks.
So how do you create a cultureof that internal of courage to
go stand out like that?
What were some, just a coupleof key things that you did to
(28:44):
foster that?
It sounds like Amit, your CEO,was open, very open to that.
I mean, the name of the companykind of gave it away, right.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
But it was more than open.
He was an inspiration and hewas driving us to do that.
I think he was driving me toalways think bigger and crazier,
and I, in turn, tried to do thesame with my leaders on my team
, and they did the same withtheir people.
So, by constantly driving eachother.
You know, there's no better wayto demonstrate that we want
(29:13):
crazy ideas than by coming upwith them ourselves and by
driving our people to come upwith them, like nothing was ever
big enough or crazy enough.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
Did you?
Did you give out awards forpeople who did that?
Did you recognize them?
Did you Absolutely?
When you interviewed them, didyou ask them about the nutty
things that they did to see?
Speaker 2 (29:30):
Because you weren't crazy but you also want them to
get work done right.
So there's that, yes.
So I think it's a combination.
It's a combination.
It's a great point you bring up.
You know, in Adam Grant's greatbook Think Again he talks about
there's a chapter where he talksabout how to encourage teams to
come up with great ideas and dothat.
And I read that and I realizedthat that's kind of exactly what
(29:50):
we did with my team and he saidit's a combination of two
things because, just like yousaid, it's not enough to drive
crazy ideas.
We're also mission driven andwe have goals to hit and we have
a business to support.
He gave examples and Adam Grantgave examples from teams at
NASA and other places where theyneeded to land a rocket on the
moon or back safely on Earth.
So how do they do that?
(30:12):
But they also have to be really,really creative to solve
problems along the way.
So one way to drive thecreativity and give people the
freedom, it's a state known aspsychological safety, where you
make it safe for people to comeout with crazy ideas.
You don't knock down any ideasand you let people speak freely
and when they start feeling safe, then their mind opens.
And now we're almost allcreative when we have the right
(30:36):
environment to do that in and ifwe know that we don't need to
be afraid to bring up an idea.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
So what's the one thing you did to do that?
Speaker 2 (30:42):
We used to have brainstorming meetings where we
literally listed on thewhiteboard everyone's craziest
ideas.
I remember one that we listedyears ago but only have now just
started to implement was I'mlike there's so many puns and
jokes we can make about salesand animals.
I wanted to shoot a video atthe zoo.
We actually got in touch withthe three Bay Area zoos, trying
(31:04):
to get a permit to film in oneof them.
We couldn't manage to do it,but now, with green screen and
AI technology, I've startedcreating a whole series of
promotion videos for my book,each of them with a different
animal, so you'll see those soonon social media, but that came
up years ago in a teambrainstorming meeting.
We're like, let's just throw outideas and there's no bad ideas
at that point, and then westarted narrowing down and
(31:25):
voting the best ones and thengoing off and producing them.
And one way of doing this isinspiration is everywhere, rajiv
.
I remember thinking of crazylocations for otherwise pretty
mundane videos like a conferencepromo, and my inspiration was
that there was this thing a fewyears ago, this trend called
extreme ironing.
If you haven't Googled back onYouTube, prepare to spend more
(31:48):
time Go to search for extremeironing on YouTube, you will see
people with an ironing boardand an iron and clothes doing
ironing while scuba diving,while skydiving, while mountain
climbing, like in the weirdestenvironments they're ironing
clothes.
It's the funniest thing.
And if you just think of thatidea, why not do that for B2B
(32:09):
marketing?
And so when we happened to havea management meeting in greece
one year and it was before oneof our conferences I grabbed one
of my team members, chris, andwe were up in the acropolis in
athens, greece, and I said thisis where we're going to shoot
our conference promo video.
And we did that.
That happened.
We have a promo video for ourfirst celebrate conference shot
at the acropolis in greece andof course, it got a lot of
(32:30):
attention because people arelike whoa, we've never seen this
before.
That's nuts.
Speaker 1 (32:34):
So is that something you actively push as part of
pushing courage?
Get people out of their element, out of their normal world,
take them places or encouragethem to do things outside to
bring those ideas back in.
Speaker 2 (32:48):
A hundred percent.
Inspiration is everywhere.
If you look at B2C brands, theytend to be more courageous
because they have so much noise.
And B2C brands tend to be morecourageous If you look at some
of what they're doing.
A lot of brands were doing andstill are these like man on the
street videos.
So when Devin Reed was on myteam, he had this great idea
let's do a man on a street onthe Embarcadero in San Francisco
(33:10):
.
He went out with a videographerand came back with incredible
funny footage where he wasinterviewing people on the
street about what they like andhate about salespeople and it
was a hilarious video.
Oh God, that's brilliant and itgot a ton of engagement.
At some point there was apigeon standing next to him.
He handed the mic to the pigeonand asked the pigeon what they
thought about salespeople.
That's a type of moment thatpeople crack up about and
(33:33):
there's just so few brands thatdare go to those places.
Speaker 1 (33:35):
And then you can take that video clip and put it in
your email right A little gif init, so as part of your outreach
, all right.
So, udi, this has beenfantastic.
We're now going to open ourminds a little further and play
the Spark Tank game.
So here we go.
Welcome to the Spark Tank game.
So here we go, welcome to theSpark Tank, where we dive into
(33:55):
the minds of marketingtrailblazers and ignite the
power of bold thinking.
This is the ultimate wordassociation challenge, where
every response could uncover anew dimension of courageous
marketing or reveal what happenswhen a CMO's brain is put on
shuffle mode.
This is where daring strategiesmeet spontaneous thought, where
brand building collides withthe art of human connection and
where a single word will unlocka universe of innovative ideas.
(34:18):
Think of it as a bungee jumpinginto the marketing subconscious
, exhilarating, revealing andjust right amount of controlled
chaos.
Here's how it works.
I'll start with a word and, udi, you'll respond with the first
word that comes to mind nosecond guessing, no filters.
Then I'll respond with yourword and, udi, you'll respond
with the first word that comesto mind no second guessing, no
filters.
Then I'll respond with yourword and we'll keep this chain
association going for aboutthree or four volleys.
So are you ready, udi?
(34:39):
I am ready, let's do this.
All right, let's go have somefun with this.
We'll start with brand.
Speaker 2 (34:49):
What people say about you Promise.
Speaker 1 (35:07):
Keep it, keep it, oh gosh, keep it, strength no no,
no, I think it's about so.
Speaker 2 (35:12):
the obvious is, like what I said before about the
boring practices, best practices.
You don't have to literally dothings the loudest and the
hardest to be thought of as agreat leader.
I mean, just look at someonelike Tim Cook leading Apple.
He's a soft-spoken person.
He's not the outgoingcharismatic person like Steve
Jobs was, but he's brought Appleto their highest valuation ever
(35:33):
, which is many many timesbigger than Steve Jobs ever
brought the company.
You can be a soft-spoken.
What's the sentence?
Speak softly and carry a bigstick.
Speaker 1 (35:42):
Teddy Roosevelt yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:43):
There you go.
You can absolutely be a verystrong leader without being the
loudest person in the room.
Speaker 1 (35:49):
That's right.
I feel like saying somethingmore akin to today.
We speak loudly and carry awhite flag, but anyways, we'll
go from that.
Here's another one Purple PinkTapestry.
Speaker 2 (36:01):
Alignment why?
Speaker 1 (36:03):
alignment.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
Because?
So this topic is so importantthat I dedicated a full chapter
in my book about it, the lastchapter of the book.
I called it your half of atwo-headed dragon.
And by that I mean that I'venever seen a go-to-market team
succeed without impeccablealignment between sales and
marketing.
And if you wanted to expandthat, you should also, of course
, align well with customersuccess and finance and other
(36:27):
teams.
But those two together are theonly way to drive successful
go-to-market.
And it's a tapestry.
There's all these marketers andthere's all these salespeople,
and in many companies they don'ttrust each other, they don't
have rapport and they just go ondoing their own thing, and none
of them are maximizing theirpotential by doing that.
Speaker 1 (36:44):
So maybe in your mind the tapestry was I had a bunch
of colors.
I thought you were going to gothe purple cow route, but you
actually took it in a morespecial way, which is in that
tapestry there can be multiplewild colors, but they have to
work together.
Speaker 2 (37:00):
They have to work together and the headline is
that marketing exists, in mymind to make sales easier.
And if you make that clear toyour team and you make that
clear to the sales team and youshow and demonstrate how you're
making their sales easier, thenguess what?
They will cooperate with youand they will follow up on the
leads you brought back from thetrade show and they will give
you feedback when something isnot landing with customers.
(37:22):
And that's the type ofrelationship you need to succeed
in marketing by demonstratinghow you're making sales easier.
That's right.
Speaker 1 (37:29):
All right, here's our last one.
I have a bunch of words I canuse but I'm going to pick magic
Experience.
Speaker 2 (37:42):
That's what we all want.
If you go to Disneyland.
Speaker 1 (37:44):
Yeah, change, I guess I thought.
Well, here's my response tothat.
The great.
Speaker 2 (37:52):
Houdini.
I knew that would come and biteme back in the behind, so who's
the great Houdini?
Speaker 1 (37:58):
What is this magic?
Who's this magical person?
Speaker 2 (38:02):
I was a magician in my childhood years.
I did magic shows on Israelitelevision and shopping malls
and other.
I did hundreds of birthdayparties and all those events and
gained quite a lot of stageexperience and with my first
name, udi, it was kind of onlynatural.
I didn't really have a choiceto pick the stage name, udini,
so that was the name I ran withand I think growing up and
(38:24):
transitioning from theperforming arts, I did music and
magic and puppeteering and allthat into marketing, which is
really creativity in service ofcapitalism.
If you ask me, I still want toput on a show and I want to put
on an experience, whether it's amarketing event or a webinar or
a podcast, like we're doingtoday.
I want to entertain people, Iwant to educate people, I want
(38:47):
them to feel something.
I want them to walk away withan experience.
I don't care if they don'tremember every single framework
and lesson, but I want them toremember how they felt and that
they were inspired and that'smagic.
It's the same feeling you getwhen you walk into a Disney park
or you watch an amazing movie.
I want more marketing to holditself accountable to that same
bar.
Speaker 1 (39:07):
I mean, that is what everything that Steve Jobs and
Apple talks about is capturingmagic and Disney.
It's Disney, too, like you'retalking about 100%.
So let me ask you I mean, youtalked about how you started as
a performer, or you grew up as aperformer, but you decided not
to go that way.
You went into technology.
When was that point where yousaid you know what I got to go
(39:31):
into high tech?
Or was there a moment, aproject?
Where did you, you know, howdid you spark that passion?
Speaker 2 (39:39):
So the performing art that I was maybe doing most
seriously for years was music.
I was playing on the hotelcircuit and the wedding circuit
and all that stuff.
Speaker 1 (39:48):
And I was having lots of fun, and I still play.
Speaker 2 (39:56):
I still play the piano, even occasionally at
concerts as an accompanist,because I just really enjoy it,
and I was jamming at the BerkleeSchool of Jazz for a couple of
years before COVID.
But A I don't think I have whatit takes.
For the daily grind to be trulyexceptional.
You need a ton of talent, whichI don't have enough of, but
also just hours and hours ofpractice and improving.
And I remember growing up inIsrael.
I majored in music in highschool because I was that
(40:17):
serious about it and I saw howmy teachers, who were some of
the best musicians in thecountry, were living.
And they were all living prettymuch small apartments, running
from gig to gig, doing a weddinghere, chamber music concert
there, teaching a student there,and I thought, well, this is
how the best musicians areliving.
I don't know that I want thatlifestyle.
I want something with morestability, with more options.
(40:40):
And when my first job, kind ofafter my army service, kind of
landed in my lap in a techcompany which I never thought of
myself as going into, I kind ofliked the range of things that
I did every day.
It was kind of a productmanager job, my first role.
I loved the variety of it.
I loved that I was learningevery day.
(41:02):
I loved the stability that itwas full-time, that it was good
pay all the things that arealmost impossible to get from a
musical or other performingcareer.
And that's how I kind ofstarted through product
management, and productmanagement for those who've
never done the role is, ofcourse, yeah, no, I, yeah, you
have to, really you're.
Speaker 1 (41:20):
You're working closely, you're understanding
the market, you're working withthis a lot of times with the
seat, you're working with theCEO.
If you're on a founding team,you're understanding what the
product market looks like andyou're working with engineering.
And then you go from productinto product marketing, where
you then take that and bring itout to messages to the market,
where you build those initialmarketing, market-friendly
(41:41):
messages.
Speaker 2 (41:42):
Yeah, and I enjoyed working both with the market
side and with the engineeringside.
But I saw that I truly shinewhen I'm working with the market
to get them excited about whatthe product can do for them and
show them all the possibilitiesof how they will get value from
it.
And so when I was in one of mylater product management roles,
I talked to my CEO and I said,look, I think the company would
(42:04):
benefit if we had a full-timemarketing role, because we don't
have it right now and I'm kindof doing it as part of my
product management role and wewould get the word out there and
we'd get more business.
And he said, yeah, I agree.
And I said, good, I've got justthe guy for you.
And I told him of my plan, thatis, to hire someone that I'll
train to replace me in productmanagement and I will transition
(42:24):
and be the first full-timemarketer at the company.
And he bought into the idea andthat's how I created and which
company was that?
This was a company called SarinTechnologies.
What?
Speaker 1 (42:33):
year what year was that?
This was a company called SarinTechnologies.
Speaker 2 (42:35):
What year?
What year was that?
Oh my gosh, this must have beenaround 2005.
Speaker 1 (42:39):
Wow, so this is awesome, so you've-.
Exactly 20 years ago, you setup your own transition into
something that you would love todo.
This is cool.
Speaker 2 (42:46):
And I did that for every other role.
I've never stepped into a rolethat someone else has held
before me.
So I've been the firstmarketing leader at five
companies, the first productleader at two companies and I'm
the first evangelist at Gong.
So that's kind of the onlything I know how to do.
Speaker 1 (43:01):
That's great, and one of the things you did you
talked about it earlier workingwith Amit Bendoff at three
different companies over 25years.
So, beyond a lot of what I liketo talk about is the
collaboration that makes yougreat, right, or what drives the
innovator right, and you'retalking about it from the point
of view of not just what you didbut also how you came together
as a team.
So, beyond your professionalrelationship with Amit, what's
(43:25):
the most compelling factor orvision that he shared about Gong
that made you decide to join asthe first marketer, right,
especially given what you did atother startups?
Speaker 2 (43:37):
Right.
So I think what's magical aboutthe way that Amit and I have
been working together for allthese years at different
companies is that he lives withhis head up in the clouds, his
feet are grounded on the ground,but I would say that he's very
high level idea man.
I would say that he's very highlevel idea man and I am closer
(43:57):
to the ground, so I still havebig ideas, nowhere near those
that Amit has, but when he comeswith a big idea and I get
excited about it, I canoperationalize it, and that's
why our duo has worked well forso many years, because he will
come with a big idea and thenfive minutes later he's already
on his next big idea.
But he needs someone tooperationalize like actually
(44:20):
turn the dream into a plan,right.
As the old saying goes, greatidea without a plan is just a
dream.
Like it's not going to happenand you can't have a goal
without a plan.
And so when he came with theseideas, I cherry picked the ones
that I thought would be mostimpactful but also doable, and
then I operationalize them, andI think he appreciates that
partnership with me, and when hecalled me back in 2016, he said
(44:43):
this was after a couple ofyears that we had worked in
separate companies.
He said would you remember thecrazy idea I told you about for
this call recording idea?
It could be a new idea insteadof a CRM.
I said yes.
He said, well, we built theproduct, an early version, and
we rolled it out to 12 betacustomers and within three
months 11 of them turned intopaying customers.
(45:03):
So I think we have earlyproduct market fit and we should
start marketing this thing.
Do you have time to come helpus?
And I said yes, I will make thetime to come help you.
What took you so long?
Speaker 1 (45:12):
He already gave you product market fit right as part
of before you came in.
You didn't have to prove it andbe like so many marketers.
When I, when we work with earlystage companies, super early
stage companies, they're likethis shit works, you know, let's
go to marketing and marketingwill make it happen and
marketing fails because theyreally don't have product market
fit.
They have a founder that knowshow to sell and that doesn't
mean you have fit, and so youknew that before you walked in.
(45:35):
So that's brilliant, yes.
Speaker 2 (45:36):
It could not have been a better sort of opening
situation for me to come in witheven 11 product, 11 customers,
but they they loved what theywere using and that's an
absolute necessity to startdoing marketing that scales,
because so many marketers that Ifeel for and I've been in that
situation we fail because wecome into a company where it
doesn't matter what we do.
If the product doesn't stick,if it doesn't provide clear
(45:59):
value, if we're telling a storythat the customers don't believe
in, it's not going to work.
It's just not going to work, soit's important as we head to a
close here, that I give all thecredit to the product people at
Gong who build this amazingproduct, because I could have
not achieved a fraction of mysuccess at another company
without the success of Gong'sproduct and how well it
(46:21):
continues to meet its products,its customers' needs.
Speaker 1 (46:25):
That's great.
Now, if I go back to your, youmentioned your background about
performing arts, magic music.
What was the most unexpectedway, a skill or experience from
those early passions influencedyour approach to marketing,
particularly in the early days,before focusing on B2B.
Speaker 2 (46:44):
I would have to say that if I look back at my
magician days of doing magic,it's all about doing some
sleight of hand, somethingsometimes complicated, in a way
that's almost completely hiddenfrom the audience, and what they
see is so simple and sometimesincredible that it appears like
(47:04):
magic.
And I think Steve Jobs saidsomething to that effect that
technology advanced enough isindistinguishable from magic.
And that's what we're trying todo in marketing to do all the
hard work and make thingscomplicated on ourselves so that
we can make it so simple thatit's magical to the customers,
whether it's how they use ourproduct, whether it's how they
(47:25):
experience our events, whetherit's how they consume our
content, whether it's how theynavigate our website.
Make it so simple anddelightful that it's magical.
Our website.
Make it so simple anddelightful that it's magical.
And the way to do that is takeon the hard work ourselves doing
behind the scenes, you know, inthe sausage factory, that
nobody else has to see, so thatthe experience externally is so
simple.
It's magic, that's amazing.
Speaker 1 (47:47):
What's your personal moonshot?
Speaker 2 (47:51):
That I've achieved or not achieved yet.
Speaker 1 (47:54):
What do you want to?
What are you aiming for next?
I mean you've had a lot ofgreat successes.
I mean you just released thiswonderful book.
Speaker 2 (48:01):
Yes, I just released my wonderful book Courageous
Marketing.
Well, you tell me if it'swonderful when people read it.
Speaker 1 (48:06):
I love it.
By the way, I had a blast.
The reason I got through it soquickly is because of your
engaging writing style, chockfull of stories.
You didn't bore me with a lotof frameworks, and when you did
give me a framework, you put itto action with examples.
Speaker 2 (48:20):
I appreciate that.
Yeah, this might be one of thelast books you'll read that
wasn't written by AI.
You know, I actually wroteevery one of the 40,000 words.
Speaker 1 (48:27):
Those are your words.
Speaker 2 (48:28):
Nothing went through a chat engine, never went
through a chat engine, not onceit's all my words.
I know I'm so old fashioned, sowhat is my moonshot At this
point?
I'm really about I think I'veachieved what I wanted to
achieve in marketing and inbusiness, and I'm really about
helping and mentoring andinspiring the next generation of
marketers, and so I'm hoping mybook will help me achieve that
(48:51):
and get into the hands and mindsof many, many marketers and get
into the hands and minds ofmany, many marketers and who
knows what doors it'll open formy next chapter.
Not that I'm going anywhereanytime soon.
I'm having a blast at Gong.
We're growing fast, we're doingreally, really well and as long
as I'm making an impact andthey will have me I'm sticking
around.
Speaker 1 (49:07):
Oh, they're going to keep you around, I would
definitely say.
Well, one more question If youhave a lot of great sayings in
your book, if you were to leavethe audience with one, what
would it be?
Speaker 2 (49:19):
Ooh, just one.
I think if you remember the onething that business is
creativity in service ofcapitalism, or, in other words,
marketing's goal is to makesales easier.
If that is your driver, if youdrive your team to think every
day how to make sales easier,you will succeed, the team will
succeed, you will have bettersales marketing alignment, your
(49:42):
sales leaders will be advocatingfor you as a marketer, and
that's the best endorsement youcould ever get and that's
probably the key to successfulcareer in marketing is
understanding that your goal isto drive business in the most
creative ways that you can, butwith measurable results.
Speaker 1 (50:02):
I love it.
Udi, thank you so much.
I just thought today's sessionwas super fascinating.
Your book is great.
I love having you on and I hopeI can have you on again.
So thank you so much forjoining me.
Speaker 2 (50:13):
I'm up for it, rajiv.
Thank you so much for having meand thanks for helping launch
my book Courageous Marketing,now available everywhere books
are sold.
Speaker 1 (50:19):
That's right.
Udi's a game changer and it's afantastic read.
Thank you for joining me.
That was truly enjoyable, agreat conversation with Udi.
He's just such a natural andyou can sense his energy,
enthusiasm, confidence, passion,and I think if there's
(50:42):
something I can take away or youcan take away from this is that
where you start, if you're opento it, can lead in so many ways
, and in his story he goes frombeing a kid magician to someone
who goes in the military,figures out where he wants to go
next and, in doing so, finds away to express himself in a way
(51:04):
that enriches many companies,many people himself, and then
shares it with so many others,like, if you think about well
Gong, you know it records calls,you think that's all it is, but
it's actually truly a revenueintelligence platform, which is
what the category that Amit himand his team created.
(51:25):
And it's that notion of taking,of understanding what people
are saying about you and whatyour team is saying, gleaning
insights from that and thenbuilding from that, and you can
see the flywheel-like passion orflywheel-like capability that
they have, from Gong Labs to themessaging they create, to the
(51:47):
marketing that they do, how itall feeds back and being
courageous is very hard inmarketing.
The average tenure of a CMO isas little as 18 months for many
companies, and it's a hard joband you really have to stand out
and you have to also be metricsdriven while being so creative,
(52:07):
and I think Udi is a greatexample of that, as have so many
marketers been on the Spark ofAges podcast.
I love how, by talking to agreat person like him, I get to
read his book and learn moreabout him and I get inspired to
do a lot more with what I'mdoing every single day, so I'm
(52:29):
glad he was able to convey thatfor me and for you.
So thank you so much forlistening today.
If you enjoyed the pod, pleasetake a moment to rate it and
comment.
You can find us on Apple,spotify, youtube and everywhere
podcasts can be found.
What's especially cool onYouTube is that you can see the
video now, so that's really fun,and hopefully you'll see us on
(52:50):
LinkedIn with our clips.
The show is produced by AnandShah and Sunneit Parikh,
production assistance by TarynTalley and edited by Sean Maher
and Aiden McGarvey.
I'm your host, rajiv Parikh,from Position Squared.
We're an AI-driven growthmarketing company based in
Silicon Valley.
Come visit us at position2.com.
This has been an effing funnyproduction and we'll catch you
(53:13):
next time.
And remember, folks be evercurious.
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