Nettle and Bone by T. Kingfisher

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
But the demon chicken is my favorite character we've ever read about.

(00:03):
Oh my god, the demon chicken.
I died.
I am such a stan for the demon chicken.
Every time the demon chicken did something, I'm just like, yes.
Oh.
Oh.
Welcome to your safe space.
The podcast, your partner, friends, parents, whoever thinks is dirty.

(00:26):
Don't have time to read books.
Want to understand the TikToks?
We got you, fam.
We're the spice traders and we deal in spicy books.
My name's Katie and I need it to make sense.
Hi, I'm Dez and I would love to talk about feelings today.
I'm Liz and I'm hypercritical.
As always, we start every episode with three things.
The first is a generic trigger warning.
You can find specific triggers for this book in our show notes,

(00:47):
so please check those out.
Also, we do use foul language and talk a lot about sex.
You have some sensitivity to that?
This isn't the podcast for you.
Secondly, we talk about books.
The whole book, nothing about the books that help me goddess.
If you plan to read this book and you don't want something spoiled,
don't listen to this episode right now.
Lastly, we acknowledge that a good book can hit you at the wrong time.
The views expressed in our discussion are our opinions

(01:08):
and we absolutely do not want to diminish the work and the talent
of the authors in our community.
That said, we have some notes.
Hello amazing listeners.
Desiree here from the cutting room floor with a quick special update.
I wanted to let you know that for the first bit of this episode,
my microphone was not working properly
and it's resulted in some pretty echoey audio.

(01:30):
It's not unbearable, but it is noticeable.
So I wanted to let you know
so you don't think it's anything to do with your own settings.
Good news.
It's not the whole episode
and it is something I've made sure is resolved in the future.
For now, thanks again for bearing with us and enjoy the episode.
All right.
So Liz, what are we talking about today?
Today, we are talking about Nettle and Bone by T. King Fisher

(01:51):
whose pronouns are she her.
This was published in 2022 and it is a standalone novel.
It does fall in our shorty bracket at 245 pages in a physical copy.
Though it is a short book by page link, it doesn't read like a short book.
However, that is absolutely not a complaint by any means.

(02:12):
But I finished this book feeling like it was solidly 400 pages.
And I'm not sure why we kind of touched on that.
We'll probably touch on it more.
There's just so much depth to what's happening that it feels much longer.
Now, I usually discuss the cover and this cover really.
Got me.
It's the back view of a girl and she is basically covered in nettles and bones.

(02:39):
So there's vines and there's like spines and bones hanging off of it,
which leads to this eerie feeling that we get right when we jump into the book.
What did you guys think off the bat?
Have you guys seen the hardcover?
No, I really love the hardcover.
I'm probably going to buy this one with like the diamond on it.

(03:02):
I need that in my life.
I do like that.
I'm going to buy this book because I read it and I want it in real life
because I want to highlight every other sentence.
Yeah, truly.
Yeah, I get that.
Yeah, I know I love that cover.
Goose.
I do too.
Add to basket.
Okay.
There's a lot to unpack in this book, even though it's short.
So without farther ado, Katie, take us on this whimsical journey.

(03:34):
All right, let's get it.
So the book opens and we meet Mara and she's making something out of metal wire and bones.
She's working in a charnel pit and if you don't know what that is,
please don't look it up, but it's essentially where people dump bodies.
And we're not really sure why the bodies are there, but as she's working,
she ruminates about the different layers of bodies that she's encountering

(03:57):
because she's looking for particular bones.
She encounters basically first the people who ate deer and cattle
and when those ran out, the people ate horses and when those ran out,
they ate the dogs and when the dogs ran out, they ate each other.
So we come to understand that she is in a place where there are cannibals

(04:19):
and as she works, she sings a song to herself about a Harper
who made a harp out of a woman's bones and hair and asks herself,
what kind of life do you lead that you find yourself building a harp out of corpses?
I mean, these are the real questions we have.
These are the questions of our time.
It's a good juxtaposition because she's wondering about that

(04:39):
as she herself is making something out of wire and bones.
Yeah.
Off the bat, like right after the first couple of paragraphs,
I already know I'm going to love this book because it's creepy and it's beautiful
and I'm just like, I am here for it.
I know that I'm going to love her because she thinks to herself

(05:01):
that she had no great love of men any longer.
Dogs though, dogs were always true and I was like, girl,
true words are never spoken.
Oh, the dog.
So her work, she seems to be trying to craft a dog out of the bones
that she can find and she's very intentional.
She wants a good, sturdy, large dog.

(05:21):
So she'll encounter essentially the equivalent of a gray hound and think to herself
that the skull that she has, this nice block of a head,
doesn't really go with the finer bones of some of those slimmer dogs.
So she's intentionally trying to make a dog that she would prefer
and like she's putting a lot of time and care into it.
The world that she's in seems very dark right off the bat.

(05:44):
She talks about cannibals.
She's working in a charnel pit.
It's almost post-apocalyptic like post-World War II kind of in some of the places in Europe.
It seemed very, very dark.
Yeah.
I was impressed with like the world building here because like I felt desolate.

(06:04):
I felt empty.
I felt dark and despair and desperation in such a like very real internalized way
just from the words that I was reading and the way that these scenes were being described.
Yeah.
And even as she's working and like building this dog of bones,

(06:27):
she's talking about how her joints are all swollen and like working with the wire is like cutting into her hands.
And it's just like it's really bleak.
But I also really like her off the bat because she's still kind of humming and talking to herself like,
okay, I'm doing this thing.
I got to do it.
She's in a lot of pain doing this disgusting task.

(06:48):
Yeah.
And we don't really get an answer as to why for a while.
And so it seems right off the bat.
This is a dark place.
She's she might be a little insane doing this.
Yeah.
But as she works, there are crows flying above her and they call a warning.
So she hides herself and the way that she hides herself is she basically lies low in the pit that she's working.

(07:12):
And she uses this cloak that she has on that's made of owl wool and sorry,
metal wool and owl cloth.
And it basically breaks up her silhouette so that if people were just a glance her way,
they wouldn't see a human necessarily.
As she's hiding from whatever is near to her,

(07:32):
she remembers a human couple with whom she shared a fire recently.
They were labored clearly not well, but they conversed with her and we learn a little bit about kind of the people that are in this land right now.
So there are humans who do not eat other humans and there are cannibals and the cannibals don't cook the meat that they eat.

(07:54):
And that the more that they eat, the more they hate fire.
So while she was with these two other non cannibals,
they didn't have to worry about a fire because it actually helped them keep the cannibals at bay.
Mara wonders why the humans that she's speaking with have never left,
but she remarks to herself that oftentimes people in the non blistered lands,

(08:16):
which is where they are, can be very cruel, more cruel than the people in the blistered lands themselves,
despite the fact that they have to deal with cannibals,
which is another thing that made it seem very dark because it's a very clear us them mentality.
And even after finishing the book, we don't really get a whole lot of explanation as to why.
No, I wanted to go back throughout my notes.

(08:38):
I am counting now I have four notes that are like, what about the cannibals?
Can we go back to the cannibals?
I want to know.
I have a couple of those as well.
Yeah.
Well, because it's such a like important starting point.
Like it sets the it sets you in this tone and you think, okay, I'm in this place.
And like, I understand like gradual movements from a dark to a light place throughout a book,

(09:01):
but it feels so like hitting a light switch like you're in this dark place and then suddenly you're no longer in it.
And it after setting such a very impactful tone in the beginning of the book to completely make a departure
and not reference it from the rest of the book almost feels.

(09:22):
I don't want to gaslight you, but like feels jarring.
I think there was a lot of intentionality there though, because she starts off in this very dark place
and then it is jarring because you're back in like some semblance of normality.
But the further along you go in the book, the darker you realize that quote unquote, normalcy is.

(09:43):
It's more hidden under like fluff.
Right.
So in the blistered lands, it's at the surface level.
You don't have to look very far.
You know you're in a bad place, but back in the real world, it's a lot more difficult to find.
That's fair.
I didn't even think about it that way and like that makes it so much eerie.
Yeah, it does.
I really like T. Kingfisher because her writing is it's it's very clear to me at least from this book

(10:09):
that her writing is a different caliber of writing than most of the things that we read on this podcast.
Yeah.
Yes.
I think I want to read more even if it doesn't necessarily fall within the like the parameters of like what we're looking for on this podcast.
But like the writing is just so good.
I agree.
I super do think like a disclaimer here.
I mean, we're talking about how this is such a large departure and we mentioned when we first started talking about this that we're not really sure how this got on our list for this podcast because it is solidly not even really a romance.

(10:42):
But it's just so good that it didn't seem like a question for any of us like if we should record it because it's just so good.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Like I feel like I have a responsibility to tell people about this.
Yeah.
Yes.
But disclaimer now if you're here for romance, this is not the one for you.
But that's really what good writing is right the kind of thing that you want to evangelize and be like you have to read this.

(11:06):
Yeah.
I want to buy 100 copies and give it to everyone I know.
I know, right?
Have you heard about our Lord and Savior, Nettle and Bone?
Our Lord and Savior, Tee-King Fisher.
Yeah, right.
Anyway, we learned that Mara is 30 years old and as she finishes up the dog, the dog comes alive and it kind of shakes itself.

(11:28):
She's very pleased with her work.
It tries out its paws that are all wired together if somewhat a little bit clumsily.
But as soon as it kind of gets its bearings, the dog runs off.
And Mara is just devastated.
She says, of course, I should have bound it to me like with a leash or something.
But she didn't even think that a dog would run away from its master.

(11:50):
You know, the thought here is that the dog had a spirit and it remembered its owner's from before and perhaps that's what it was going to go find.
But we learn why she was trying to make this dog.
She had gone to see someone called a dust wife and this person had set her three tasks.
The cloak that she wears made of owl cloth and nettles is the first one.

(12:14):
The second task is to build a dog of cursed bones.
And the third task is to catch moonlight in a jar of clay.
If she does this, then the dust wife will give her the tools to kill a prince.
We don't know why she wants to kill a prince, but this is setting up the story in a really interesting way.
Yes, yes.
Or even what what prince?

(12:35):
Like I know, or just a prince.
Do you know this prince?
Did he do something to you?
Is it just like any prince?
Like is this for some other reason?
This is one of those books that does a great job of show.
Don't tell and like let's you figure out things as you're going along.
And then like if you still haven't gotten it in like a few chapters, there'll be like a connection point for you.

(12:58):
Let's fall it out a little bit more for you, which I really like.
Even the characters will make it into a joke.
Right.
Yes, which I love.
So as she's wallowing in the fact that her dog just ran away, we learned a little bit more about Mara.
She has two sisters, Damia, who is six years older and a half sister and Kania, who is two years older and a full blooded sister.

(13:22):
Mara and her sisters were princesses and her parents are the king and queen of a small kingdom that ruled over a deep water harbor between two much larger kingdoms.
And Mara talks about how her mother was very adept at balancing those two kingdoms and keeping their their own little fiefdom safe and alive.

(13:42):
But then the prince of the north decided that he would take a wife and he would take one of her sisters as his wife.
That would cement an alliance and it would ostensibly make that balancing act between the northern and the southern kingdoms a lot easier.
Unfortunately, Damia doesn't live much longer than her actual marriage, only five months.

(14:08):
And when her body comes home and state Mara is so young that she doesn't really believe it's happened.
And she remarks seeing kind of this procession of black horses and carriages, etc.
It struck her watching as an extravagance of grief.
Someone wanted the world to know how sad he could afford to be.

(14:30):
I love the term extravagance of grief.
I have seen that, I have witnessed it, and it is such a... God, the writing of this book is so good.
It's so good. I at some point I had to stop putting quotes because that was the only thing that I was putting my notes in.

(14:51):
I know.
And I was like, okay, well, I'm just gonna end up right like reading the book on the podcast.
And maybe that's not the ideal situation.
It's not quite real.
The writing in this book is just gorgeous.
Stunning.
And I did keep some quotes in there, so it's not... you will get a flavor of it.
I have... in the quote stock that we have, I have six or seven so far.

(15:17):
Excellent.
So back in the blistered lands, Mara mirrors the edge of this area and remarks how clear the boundary is, right?
So it's very clearly happy, healthy, green, regular trees, and the blistered land is very not okay.
Scarred land, charred, twisted, not green things.

(15:39):
And she finds it creepy that it took her relatively little time to get there.
She decided that she was going to do this task from the dust wife.
And as soon as she set her mind to it, she found the blistered lands almost as if the land was enchanted to find someone if you decided to want to find it.
And I love the idea that no matter where you are, the blistered land will find you if you want to.

(16:01):
Very creepy and very interesting.
So creepy. I loved that.
I want to know more about why the blistered land can do that.
I know and we don't find out, but that's one of those things that like I want to know more, but it doesn't bother me that we don't find out.
It's just like atmosphere.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's just part of the world.
As she leaves the blistered lands, it feels like there's a curse that makes her arms itch, but like that never came back up.

(16:24):
So I think it's just a product of her leaving the blistered lands.
Yeah, I think so too.
One thing to know is the time is a little weird in this book in the beginning because we're going back and forth a lot between like the past and her current.
And it's not super well delineated necessarily in terms of like now we're back to the past or here we are in the future.

(16:44):
So I did struggle with that a little bit where I was like, wait, what?
Yeah. And at some point we just stay in the past for a while until we catch up to the future, which was a little bit off putting.
But it typically happened in between chapters or there was like very noticeable breaks.
So that did help.
But yeah, so we do switch back to the past.

(17:08):
And after Mara's sister's death, the prince offered to marry Kanya, her middle sister.
So their mother.
Yeah, so kind.
So how benevolent.
Their mother, the queen put the prince off for a year out of respect for Damia, but ultimately accepted the offer to cement the alliance.
Because Kanya does not give the prince children.

(17:32):
The prince ultimately decides that he wants Mara to go into a convent so she doesn't get pregnant and then somehow challenge the throne.
So she goes to a convent dedicated to Our Lady of Crackles.
Two things.
One, I thought it was the mother that sent her there.
Not so much the prince.
Like the prince didn't actually say like, hey, she's under a convent.

(17:54):
The mother was like, I'm listening to you to a convent soon kind of be out of the way for a little while.
Yeah, I mean, the prince didn't show up and like drag her there, but I got the impression that it was his insecurity that made her go to the convent.
Got it.
And like keep her on reserve.
The other thing that I love is the Lady of Crackles.

(18:15):
Like I just love.
Yeah.
Crackles are just such a like I have a couple of friends whose favorite birds are crackles and I always think that's really funny.
Yeah.
Weird.
I didn't think I know what a crackle looks like.
It's a black bird, right?
I figured it was black.
Yeah.
I want to say it's like the crow or the Raven family.
Yeah.
Yeah, but I love I love the thing the whole house devoted to this bird.

(18:38):
I know me too.
They're like rainbow-y.
Yeah, they are like oil slick is what some people will call them.
Yeah.
The Lady of Crackles.
I mean, I'm down to sign up for that religion.
Sign me up.
Yeah.
Sounds great.
So Mara goes to the convent and she finds it unfair that her sister's fertility or lack thereof basically keeps them all hostage.

(19:06):
Puts her where she doesn't want to be.
But she eventually.
Yeah, but eventually she does like it there because she can work with her hands and when she closes the door to her room, the door stays closed.
She rummaged that princesses are public property and she didn't realize before that
mere peasant had more power than a princess that she could close the door, which I thought was very interesting.

(19:28):
She talks about how servants keep going in and out all the time.
That's one of my quotes.
That was really powerful.
Yes.
It's good.
So at the convent, she actually gets into working with her hands, as I said, and at first she doesn't do physical labor like shoveling shit out of a stable.
But she learns that this is because basically the sisters know that she's of noble birth.

(19:52):
And from then on, she insists on being treated no differently.
She goes by herself to the stables and starts shoveling shit, which I thought was very admirable.
I love that so much, especially when she's taught how to shovel shit because she doesn't do it right.
Yeah, she's like doing it wrong and the abyss comes up and is like, you know, you don't have to do that.

(20:14):
And she's like, I know I don't have to do that, but I am doing it.
And the abyss is like, fair enough, you're holding it wrong.
I love that.
Back in the present, Mara is leaving the blistered lands and she is accosted by a man who tells her to go back in or he will kill her.
He has a shovel and he starts advancing on her.

(20:36):
But before he can actually harm her in any way, the dog that she made out of bones comes running out of the fog back to his creator and saves her.
The man is so freaked out that he turns tail and runs away.
I was gonna say that throughout this book, we get, I mean, this dog is a ongoing character, a bone dog.
And I can picture this dog.
I pictured the dog from Corpse Bride, but like bigger.

(21:02):
But then there's moments like this where I like to me, bone dog is really cute and lovely.
But then moments like this, I'm like, that must be terrifying.
See this like bone wire beast like you can see he's also big.
It's not a weenie dog looking Corpse Bride.
No, I pictured him being like Irish Wolfhound size.

(21:23):
Yeah, it's massive.
Can you imagine that just like coming out of the darkness at you?
Yeah, like like a like a Rottweiler and an Irish Wolfhound had a love child.
I pictured him more like, like Yogi, like I pictured Yogi.
Because like a lot of the things bone dog did remind me reminded me of Yogi and she talked about kind of having that more block head.

(21:43):
And so I was kind of thinking about Yogi in his big head because he always has such a lovable big head.
So for reference, Yogi is Katie's dog.
Yeah, especially when so my dog and bone dog do the same thing where they'll sit on your foot.
Oh, I love that.
With my dog is really cute because he's a flesh and like fur.

(22:04):
Yeah, but with the bone dog, it's really not funny because he'll sit on people's feet and it's just bones and wires and shit.
And it's real painful.
And the wires like dig into you.
Butter is that, which is my dog.
But she she is also flesh, but it hurts.
It's mostly it's mostly just bone, bony butt into my foot and it hurts.

(22:26):
I love that we have to clarify my dog is my dog is flesh.
My flesh dog, my first feature, my fur baby.
I am his skin mother.
So this is really the last time that we see the blistered lands and we almost exclusively stay in the past and learn what has happened to Mara to get her to the blistered lands.

(22:48):
So back in the past, we learned that while at the convent, Mara has a brief affair with one of the acolytes at the monastery next door.
So she's, you know, loses her V card, has a nice little flirtatious fling with him.
But then she overhears him boasting about how he bedded one of the king's bastards.
And this really breaks her heart and she mourns the loss of that relationship.

(23:14):
One of the sisters sister apothecary visits her and it's basically like, all right, kid, what's up, spill the spill the beans and drinks with her while the sister tells her of her first love.
And that makes Mara feel better.
She eventually unburdened herself to the sister and the sister has the acolyte sent away.
I loved that.

(23:36):
I feel like so much of the commentary of this book is just going to be us saying things.
You're going, I love that.
I know.
I know it really is.
She she mentions that that's really the only time that she had had like a serious relationship with anybody because she's not actually a nun.
She didn't take orders.
She's just staying at the convent.
So it's not like she's breaking the rules to do these things.

(23:58):
But the only other thing that she mentions is that she had this crush on like a traveling professor that came through.
And I just I feel like Mara would really appreciate some of the books that we read.
She would.
I loved her because she doesn't take orders and that continues to be the thing she talked about.
She's like, why not really a nun?

(24:19):
Yeah, I'm kind of a nun and I'm kind of a princess, but I'm not really good at either.
I don't really want to be either completely.
Right.
So in Mara's 25, her sister finally gives birth and she and her mother are summoned for the event.
They arrive when Kanya is in labor and when Kanya and Mara get a moment alone,

(24:41):
Kanya basically clings on to Mara and tells her that if she dies, if Kanya dies, do not let their mother marry Mara off to the prince.
That Mara should run far, far away and ruin herself before she lets that happen.
Mara is a little bit, I'll say, slow on the uptake.

(25:02):
She's not like mentally slow.
She just isn't worldly.
So she doesn't really understand what Kanya is trying to tell her in the moment.
And she tries to rationalize it by saying, you know, it must have been the pain that she was going through or something like that.
And I made her say something like that.

(25:24):
Kanya gives birth to a daughter, which is clearly a disappointment because it's not a son.
Which Mara also remarks, like she doesn't really understand what people don't seem happy about it.
Yes, exactly.
And I think it's important to say, like, the reason we say like she is not slow mentally is because that is one thing that like she is being told in her youth is that she is.

(25:45):
And I don't think that's the case.
Like, yeah, she's a little slow on the uptake, but I just think it's not that it's not that is that she's just a little slow on the uptake.
She's just not putting the pieces together as quickly as other people.
But a lot of her family, when she's younger, spends a lot of time telling her that she's not that smart.
Yeah, and kind of belittling her for that.
And I think that that's really unfortunate because it's very clear that she is a very intelligent woman and very capable.

(26:08):
I mean, the kind of adage if if the if you keep trying to judge a fish by how well it can climb trees, like it's going to fail every time.
Or something like that.
Yeah, that's what comes to mind when I think about Mara.
Yeah.
The other thing that I find really interesting that continues throughout the book is after Damia dies and we see Kanya and Mara's relationship,

(26:31):
it's very clear that it's not really clear how Kanya feels, but Mara believes that Kanya hates her and that like there's no love lost.
But as we move into the story, that is such an interesting thing to keep in the back of my head as like the whole plot and their relationship.
Like she goes to such lengths for someone that she thinks hates her.

(26:54):
Yeah.
I think what especially in that context is that Mara takes the things that people say at face value.
And the reason that she thinks Kanya hates her is because when Kanya was a child, she would say, I hate you to Mara.
Yes.
But like kids say shitty things all the time.

(27:14):
It doesn't mean that's how they really feel.
Right.
And like they're in their thirties now.
Right.
She was like 10.
Right.
Yeah.
So anyway, Mara stays through the christening and during that time she and her maid gossips.
The maid tells her that all of the prior royalty for the northern kingdom is buried in separate rooms underneath the palace kind of in this ever expanding maze.

(27:41):
So a king will die.
They will get buried in their own room and their wife will get buried next to them, their children next to them, etc.
Etc.
And onward and onward all the way back through the lines of this family.
But because basically their tombs are below the palace, there's this rumor that prior kings haunt current ones, which is why the people say that the current royal family of the north have such short lives.

(28:08):
They talk specifically about the current king who's in his fifties.
But Mara remarks that he looks like he's easily 80 something.
He's just had a really hard time of it.
She says like that can't possibly be right and then she kind of does the math and she's like, yeah, I guess I guess that must be right.
Yeah, but he looks like an old man.

(28:28):
During the christening Mara sees the prince for the first time and it's kind of like the don't meet your heroes kind of thing because she's shocked at how short he is.
She has to say.
Yeah.
She's built him up to be this villain in her head or not necessarily a villain at this point, but this powerful all seeing person, right?

(28:51):
He had he had married her first sister.
She died now.
He has her second sister.
He's essentially the reason she's at the convent.
And so when she finally meets him, it's a little bit of a letdown.
She's like, well, that's it.
You're awfully small.
During the christening ceremony, the godmother comes in and so godmothers apparently exist here and they actually bless babies, which I love.

(29:17):
And the godmother blesses her essentially with protection.
All right.
This is my gift.
Said the godmother.
Her voice was not loud, but it was so silent that it carried to the far corners of the room.
I have served her as I have served her line.
My life bound to theirs.
No form magic shall harm them.
No enemy shall topple their throne.

(29:38):
As it has been for all of the children of the royal house.
So shall it be for her for as long as I draw breath.
So this woman has been blessing all of the kings in this line since they took the throne or since at least for several generations, which makes her quite old, unnaturally so.
The godmother is also kind of terrifying.

(30:00):
Yeah.
So the godmother is described as an ancient individual.
She has skin that has become so she she's sold that her skin has ceased to have wrinkles and it's just stretched really thinly over her skull now.
No one really seems to question either, which I feel like maybe they should.

(30:21):
Yeah, no one seems to question that, but we'll get to that.
Yeah, we'll get to that.
So Mara goes back to the convent and settles back into her routine.
Within six months, she hears that her sister is pregnant again.
She thinks that this is a little bit alarming because she just so recently gave birth, but she kind of lets it drop before, you know, without asking any more questions.

(30:45):
But she realizes that she's never summoned for the birth even after 11 months.
She presumes Kanya must have lost the baby if one existed at all.
And so her daily life just keeps going.
She begins helping sister Apothecary with her chores as well as more medical tasks like setting broken bones or helping with births.

(31:05):
And after attending a lot of these births, Mara exclaims to sister Apothecary how awful this whole thing is and that she just won't do it.
She refuses.
Sister Apothecary tells her that there are ways that you can decrease the likelihood of birth, but you can't.
It's not a full proof method, right?
It's like that 99.9 percent.

(31:26):
Yes, and that some ways are dangerous.
Yeah, but Mara studies these just in case that she's ever called into service as the Prince's next blood mare.
So she knows what's up.
She does know what's up.
I also really liked this.
This like empowering like birth control abortion like I can teach you ways to do this.

(31:50):
And she's like, yeah, I'm going to learn those things.
Right.
Thank you.
She also remarks that she wishes that she could share this information with her sister so that like she wouldn't have to keep getting pregnant over and over and over again like this.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Which we'll get to why.
A few months on, a fever sweeps through the city.
Mara recovers, but her niece sadly does not.

(32:16):
So Kanya's baby daughter who she attended the christening for has died.
So I.
At first, I really struggled with this because I was like, they are worlds apart.
Right.
Like it took her like a day or two to get to christening the first time.
So like they're very far apart.
But then I remember to hopefully COVID spread and I was like, oh, nevermind.

(32:38):
Yeah.
Or like the black plague, like that was all of you.
Yeah.
Like immediately.
Yeah.
So even though they're not in the same town or the city or whatever, like everybody gets this and it wipes out a lot of the population.
Even one of the sisters, the Abbas, I believe gets it really badly and she never is recovered back to full health.
But Mara is summoned to her niece's funeral and when she sees her sister, she realizes that Kanya is pregnant again.

(33:05):
And she's a little bit concerned, but doesn't really think much of it at first.
Then at a family, quote unquote, family dinner, things are awkward and silent.
And when it's finished, it gets worse because Mara gets an insight into how the prince treats Kanya.

(33:26):
He basically gets up and tells Kanya to look decent tomorrow because she looks a mess now.
And when she essentially says, yes, you're absolutely right, she asks for the ability to participate in a vigil for her daughter.
And even Mara can tell that the prince is about to say no, except for the old king, who is basically a demented old man at this point,

(33:51):
even though he's 50, interjects vaguely and says something to the effect of, oh yeah, that's the right thing to do.
What a good idea.
And so the prince basically has to let his wife do this, but it's, oof, dark in here.
Well, then they have to fight about like whether or not she's going to have guards on her while she is holding vigil.
And she's trying to say no, and he's like, no, you need them.

(34:12):
And it's very tense in this space.
Very tense.
When Mara meets her sister for the vigil, she's escorted to the church where her sister waits for her.
And there's this quote about Kanya, quote, Kanya just stood inside the door, her face blank,

(34:32):
as if she had stepped away from her own face a little while and retreated somewhere deep inside.
And this is just a really good example of how whimsical the writing is, and I just love it so much.
Yeah, it's such beautiful writing.
And I, the feelings that are evoked when you're reading, like being a feelings based person was so powerful.

(34:55):
And I felt swayed, like when I was reading this in a way that I don't frequently feel swayed.
I think that's the thing about the whimsy that at least T. King Fisher does so well.
Or even when it is these like strange turns of phrase, they are very whimsical.
They like hit such human emotion that like, it's not a way that we've, I haven't like read it explained that way before,

(35:20):
but it just hits so true to be like, yes, like I can feel that feeling.
Yeah, I agree.
So when Mara speaks with her sister Kanya during the vigil, it's very clear that the prince is an abusive, jealous bastard.
Yep.
So much so that when he was away for some king or princely duty,

(35:41):
he wouldn't touch his wife for nine months just to make sure that he, she hadn't stepped out and gotten pregnant by somebody.
But he's still convinced that the moment that she's out of his sight that she will bed somebody else,
hence the conversation about the guards, hence the conversation about not wanting to let her have a vigil for her daughter.
To make it worse, he physically abuses her.

(36:03):
Mara sees a bruise on Kanya's wrist that's kind of covered up by her sleeves.
And Kanya also shares that even when she has sex with her husband, the prince makes his guards watch.
Which why?
It's a control and a meaning thing.
Yeah.
I have, I do.

(36:25):
Okay.
What do you guys have?
Oh man, you're turning into me.
Who are you?
I am.
We've switched sides.
How, what do you think about Kanya like in this conversation?
I'm going to need you to be more specific.
Yeah.
So, okay.
So throughout this conversation, like when Mara sees the bruises and is like talking about this,

(36:48):
Kanya is very, I don't know if I like it or I hate it because she's very like, well obviously, like what did you think was happening?
Like she kind of reiterates that like Mara, you're so stupid.
Like of course, like of course he's hitting me.
Of course he's hurting me.
And I don't know.
I think that Kanya is a very like, I don't know, Kanya kind of reminds me of me in a little bit, a little, a lot of ways.

(37:14):
Because she just expects everybody to be in her own understanding, right?
And when they're not, she's frustrated.
She doesn't hide it as well as I do, right?
No.
So, and in that vein, I can respect where she's coming from because she's like, I've been in that place where like I am in a bad place and I have come to terms with it.

(37:36):
And I don't want to have to hold your hand through the understanding of what I'm going through.
Yeah.
I think that's where she's at.
Because she's been being abused and basically impregnated as soon as fucking possible for years at this point.
And so I feel like she's fully aware of the situation that she's in.
Like this dude is a monster.
He killed my sister.
He's going to kill me as soon as I have a son.

(37:58):
Mara, I'm not going to explain anything to you.
Thanks for being here.
But like, I'm just trying to survive.
Yeah.
And she, I think it's in this conversation where she even says like, though she knows she's going to be killed.
As soon as she has a boy, she like it's better for her to stay pregnant because then at least he doesn't hit her as like he's not as physically abusive because he's not going to risk a miscarriage after like the first couple that he seems to have caused.

(38:25):
Yep.
So it's like a reprieve when she's pregnant.
Kind of.
And this is dark.
And this is when Kanye kind of explains what she said when she warned Mara to ruin herself because she basically says like, if I don't give him a son, he's going to be like, I don't want to be a son.
He's like, if I don't give him a son, he's going to move on to you.
He's already done it to two sisters.

(38:46):
What's a third?
Which I also that comes back into the whole Mara thinking Kanye hates her because that in of itself, I feel like is such an act of love for her sister that Mara doesn't see as clearly.
But like, Kanye is really taking it where like, I mean, she could kill herself and escape.
Right. Exactly.

(39:07):
She doesn't.
Yeah.
So when Mara and her mother arrive back at their home city, Mara stays one night in the palace in her old room.
And she tries to speak to her mother about what's going on with Kanye.
And it's clear that her mother knows, but is in a tough position.

(39:28):
She admits that she knew about it before going into the marriage with Damia, but she hoped that the prince would not be so stupid as to.
She uses a term basically that like, he wouldn't take out his particular proclivities on his wife.
But unfortunately, that's not the case.
And she tells Mara not to speak to anybody about it because the prince has eyes and ears everywhere and they're in a very bad precarious position right now.

(39:58):
In this interaction, Mara seems pretty simple when it comes to politics, but I think it's because she's just so naive, right?
She's not good at statescraft.
She's almost childlike when it comes to the motivations of others.
And this is what I have in my notes.
Like, I really hope there's not smud in this because like, I'm not even sure I would be okay with like that here.

(40:19):
She's just so innocent.
She rose so much in this book that by the end of it, I get a little frustrated because I would love, I would love some space.
And when we meet the male lead, I'm like, okay, you guys are like really cute.
And my note here is like, unless she goes on a major maturity arc, which she does.

(40:41):
Which she does. She's a huge growth arc.
And I also, I feel bad for her because this kind of again, like her mom sort of earned this conversation reiterates that like, you don't know enough, but she's also the second spare.
So I can imagine she was really taught any of this.
Right.
And she even says that about the work that she gets to do at the convent.
Like, she's interested, which is not something that she had ever experienced before.

(41:07):
So she's interested in learning how to embroider and weave and knit in all of these things.
But she, that was never something that she was encouraged to do in any, in any subject when she was growing up.
Like she was taught how to read and write and all that stuff, but she was never taught to have an interest in anything.
And I think that's where a lot of her quote unquote, simple-ness comes from or perceived simple-ness, I'll say.

(41:34):
Right.
All right.
So this is ultimately what causes Mara to go on her journey.
She worries so much for her sister and she feels compelled to do something.
But for a while, she feels powerless to actually affect any kind of change.
She spends a couple of weeks basically losing sleep and fretting over it at the convent to the point that sister Apothecary is like,

(42:01):
girl, are you pregnant or in love?
That's the only thing that looked like this.
The only thing to symptoms that look like this.
I love, I love sister Apothecary.
I mean, we get good replacements for her, but I was also down for her to be like that in the whole book.
I know, same.
Then one day Mara hears two women outside of the convent talking about a dust wife who can do magic.

(42:24):
We learned that dust wives are essentially like cemetery keepers.
They can speak to the dead.
And so they act kind of as someone who looks after them on in with the living and helps them along their journey.
So that that ability comes with a certain amount of inherent magic.

(42:49):
The aspect we get of the dust wives of like what their role is, I thought was so creepy, but also like really sweet where they are the ones who like dig the graves because otherwise the spirits might think that someone is grave robbing an attack.
So if the dust wives get too old to do that, they will come out with a shovel and like turn the first bit of earth.

(43:13):
Yep.
And I just loved that.
I do too.
I love and that's the kind of, I'm not even going to call it whimsy.
It's just different, right?
A different type of world building, a different type of magic.
And like even the concept of Godmothers and we'll get into a little bit more like Godmothers are not necessarily good, right?
No.
And I have never read a book fairy tale or like new adult fantasy or anything in between that has this unique of a world.

(43:42):
And I just loved every bit of it.
Yeah, I agree.
It's just, it's so detailed.
Like, I think the point that you're saying about the magic, like that's something I recognize as well as like the magic is so unique and well done.
Like, it feels really balanced. Like we've talked in other books about how like, you know, there's magic that doesn't seem to have any limits, but like or arbitrary limits.

(44:08):
All of this magic seems without being beaten over the head with it really well balanced.
Like a silver like, oh, you have to like give away this thing to be able to do it or like it runs out at the drop of a hat or it doesn't run out and you're like, why not?
This all feels really well balanced and really well set up.
I agree wholeheartedly.

(44:29):
So after hearing about these dust wives, she goes and sees the local dust wife in her city.
And when she meets this woman, she basically tells her about the situation without revealing that she's a princess.
And the woman tells her that she can't help her, that she must seek a more powerful dust wife with deeper magic.
And she directs Mara to a woman who is in the southern kingdom far away that might be able to help her.

(44:55):
But interestingly, the dust wife says, you know, if you're if you succeed, come back and tell me how it went.
And Mara says, well, I might not make it out alive. And she says, I'll still be able to hear you.
It was also really cool. It's sad, but very cool.
Very cool. Very sad.
So she goes back to the convent and says her goodbyes to sister Apothecary and sister Apothecary basically says,

(45:20):
it gives her some money and gives her some advice on how to get around, sets her up with a shepherd who takes her south of the city,
where she can begin to hire coaches to get to a place called an Esempque, S M Q.
The names of these places I've been really struggle with. I will say that.

(45:43):
Yeah. Anyway, so she's going to S M Q.
Sure. It's somewhere in the southern king, southern kingdom on her journey.
She's moving from a hired coach to hired coach and she what she ends up doing is actually very interesting.
She ends up sleeping in the coaches so she doesn't have to pay for an in, which I thought was interesting because she she only has the fine
item out of money that sister Apothecary gave her for her journey and she doesn't want to run out of it.

(46:06):
She doesn't know how long her journey is going to be, but she doesn't she wants to set herself up for success.
And largely her journey goes fine. She doesn't she's not immediately comfortable with how to hire a coach, which I resonated with
because she's like, I don't know what the what the protocol is here, but she watches a couple of other people do it and then she eventually gets comfortable with it, which is literally how I operate.

(46:30):
Yeah.
But on one of these coaches, she basically gets accosted by a man who starts giving her a hard time. He's asking her questions that she doesn't want to answer.
And she doesn't have to answer. And when she doesn't answer, he gets angry and starts cursing at her.
And then a woman sitting next to Mara basically tells the man, hey, can you not she's a nun like what do you think you're doing and the man immediately is chastised and stops.

(47:01):
He's doing what he's doing. It gets off at the next stop. And this woman says to tell people that Mara is a nun straight away.
She says, quote, there's many a man who will not think twice to mistreat a woman, but who lives in fear of a habit and a holy symbol.
That was such a powerful.
It was.
Because holy shit is a true.
Yep.

(47:22):
It is very true.
Yeah, like somehow when you belong to Jesus or a God or something, you're not.
You have more body autonomy or whatever.
Right, exactly.
She finally makes her way to the powerful dust wife.
And when she does, she walks over a bunch of loose stones and the quote is they rattled and slid underfoot talking to each other in stone language saying all the words they've been saving up until the next time a human walked across them.

(47:52):
So good.
She says about the house that it would have been alarming had the chickens not been out in front of it being so relentlessly chicken like it's hard to be frightened of the unknown when the unknown kept chickens,
which I also really feel because I use some chickens.

(48:13):
My mom has chickens.
If you've ever spent time near chickens, they are just ridiculous creatures.
It is really hard to be threatened of a place that has chickens outside.
It truly is.
And if you keep chickens alive, that means that you care for the sanctity of life in some way, shape or form.
Right.
So how hard to be fleeing.
Yeah.
Yeah, you can't be that evil.

(48:34):
So she meets this woman and the woman's like, all right, sure, I can help you if you can do these three tasks.
And so the first task is the making of the owl cloth and nettle cloak.
And the way that she has to do this is go up on the roof of this woman's house and work with these scraps of owl cloth and unspun nettle wool, which she has to spin herself, but it stinks her like nettles to the point where she essentially mains her left hand,

(49:05):
working with this material to spin it into some kind of crude thread that she can stitch a cloak together with the owl cloth.
She has two days to do this and she does it.
But like I said, she it's painful, really, really painful.
But she does the cloak.

(49:26):
The woman seems not super pleased and then sets her off to her second task, which is to make the bone dog.
When she returns with bone dog, the dust wife is still not pleased and also astonished.
She's like, huh, you did it.
Well, fuck.
There's such you two impossible tasks and you did them both.

(49:49):
Yeah.
And she's like, are you sure I can't change your mind about wanting to kill a prince and Mara's like, Nope, I want to do this.
So the dust wife picks up an earth and earthenware jar off of the shelf, hands it to Mara, Mara takes it.
The dust wife tells Mara to open it and she does and moonlight bathes Mara's face and she closes it and then the dust,

(50:11):
the dust wife asks for the jar back and so Mara hands it back and the dust wife says congratulations.
You did the third task.
Now we got to go.
Which I love and she basically says that the point of setting somebody an impossible task is so that they won't do it.
But Mara's already done to and that jarring moonlight would probably break or kill Mara.

(50:35):
And so this was much easier.
Right.
Because you're clearly going to try.
Exactly.
As you've come this far.
Yeah.
She goes on to say that she doesn't have a magic sword or anything to give her.
So the dust wife is effectively the weapon that she gets against the prince.
Which is funny and God, so close.

(50:57):
I just, oh my gosh.
Yeah.
Just like, well, I guess let's go.
Yeah, because up until here, I mean, I think most readers, but at least I was functioning that like she was going to get a potion or a spell or something.
Yeah, or some kind of curse.
But no, that's why I was just like, you get me.
So let's go.

(51:18):
We got to go back to the Northern Kingdom.
This is where I have another one of those great lines that said I could easily imagine someone making a saint out of her a hundred years hence.
Maybe some of the saints were like that too.
Cranky old women with strange gifts.
Yep, that's her.
So they leave in the next three days.
And when they do, the dust wife has like put all of these preparations in order.

(51:39):
She's grabbed a bunch of supplies.
She's described as wearing this cloak that's made out of jars that have like stuff in them that clinks when she walks, which I thought was very cool.
So they both have really interesting clothes.
But she specifically takes the brown chicken and she says that the chicken has a demon in her.
So it would be rude to leave her with the neighbors to deal with.
So the demon chicken and the dust wife are always together and the demon chicken sits on top of the dust wife staff, unless she's going to lay an egg, in which case she climbs up the dust wife's arm around her shoulders into her pack to lay the egg and then comes back to sit on the top of the staff.

(52:15):
So she's just picture this like fat ass chicken like swaying on a staff.
Yep.
And she's she's constantly making her opinion known by like clucking or making sounds.
Yep.
And have it look to be being described as having disapproving looks, especially to other chickens.
I want to read a whole story about the demon and the chicken.

(52:37):
I know.
And Mara asks, how did you get a demon and a chicken and the dust wife says, oh, the usual way.
And she goes on where was something like, well, something about like where you couldn't put it in a rooster because that's how you get a basilisk.
Right.
And I'm like, excuse me.
I know.
Like what?
Oh, the usual way.
Right.

(52:58):
The usual way.
So at this point, the dust wife is like, what's, you got to name the dog.
And so they named the dog bone dog.
Very imaginative.
And actually the dust wife says, so imagination isn't your, isn't your strong suit.
But she says that it's important because for what they're doing, she should be, she should have like two feet on the ground.

(53:20):
Yes.
So her not being imaginative is not an insult.
Right.
But pretty backhanded nonetheless.
It is.
So the four of them start walking and they have to stay away from people because bone dog is made of bones.
So they can't like let people see.

(53:41):
Let people see them or, you know, get too close.
So they'll start asking awkward questions and it takes them forever.
So at some point the dust wife is like, this isn't going to work.
We got to go to the goblin market and Mara is like, make fucking what?
So to get to the goblin market, it's kind of a roundabout way.
But to start the dust wife leads them to a stream and then when they get to a fork in the stream, she ends up calling a drowned boy to give them directions.

(54:07):
It was kind of terrifying.
And this is a horrifying experience.
Does anybody want to describe the drowned boy?
I'm trying to see if I have it like highlighted.
I don't think that I do.
But basically like he's it's like it's like if a body had been sitting in water for a really long time, like it's bloated bluish gray skin, which is about as far as that description as I really want to go.

(54:34):
Yeah.
I mean, the, yeah, it's a drowned person. So they look like a drowned by which is terrifying.
This this guy is also described as being a little leering towards specifically Mara.
So he's giving her the heebie jeebies and also keeps like making faces at her.

(55:00):
And the dust wife tells Mara that the drowned ones tend to go bad more often than not, but at least this one did give them good directions, despite the fact that he wanted to charge more for those directions than he should have.
And what he wanted to charge was he wanted the dust wife to give him Mara to do what with I don't know and I don't want to know.
Thank you.

(55:22):
So he gives them the directions and they follow them further upstream to a tree that's growing over the stream and the dust wife points out that it is earth, water and air all in the same place.
And this is how they're going to get into basically the other side of the veil to go into the goblin market.
So she hangs the dust wife hangs a pendant from the tree so that it touches the water basically connecting these three elements and then they duck through in the basically the window that the string makes.

(55:53):
And as they go through this portal Mara's ears pop and they backtrack a little bit and they come upon a scare staircase that goes into the ground that decidedly was not there the first time that they passed that area.
And as they descend they eventually they eventually come to the balcony of a sunken room where a dazzling market is taking place.

(56:14):
There are multicolored tents there's all kinds of people and creatures walking around.
And it's just a magical place to be and unlike anything Mara has ever seen in her entire life for obvious reasons.
She hasn't seen much.
The thing that's interesting is the dust wife tells her don't stare but don't look away if someone looks at you show as little weaknesses you can agree to nothing and accept nothing until you know the price.

(56:38):
Like it's definitely a very magical really cool place but it has a lot of danger in it as well.
Yeah, very traditionally Faye.
Well, and the goblin market is my favorite poem like of all time.
And this does a really great like the imagery I have of goblin market like this.

(57:02):
I was like, okay, this is I'm here for this and it's great.
Interesting.
So the first thing that they buy is a moth.
They go to a booth where there are a number of different moths laid out and they buy one that shows you what you need.
And the cost for this moth is two weeks of Mara's life.
So the moth acquired, they follow the moth into that the moth takes flight and they follow it through the market through different areas trying not to lose sight of it.

(57:33):
They almost lose it because there's this disturbance in one of the alleys that they're in and it's because this woman is basically taking up space and people are parting the way for her and somebody mutters under their breath,
and they're like, it's a saint like it's a dirty word.
And this woman is very interesting looking.
She's very ethereal.

(57:54):
She looks like she's floating and she has her left hand is severed at the wrist and she's holding it in her right hand.
And so she's just got this stump and then this left hand and she doesn't say anything but she makes eye contact with Mara and smiles at her.
And so the moth is like, it's like a moth.

(58:17):
And then the moth passes and they continue to find the white moth and it eventually leads them to a booth of teeth.
Mara says, of course it would be teeth while her skin tried to crawl off her body and run away screaming.
It was never not going to be horrible teeth.
Yes.
I felt that so much as someone who has recurring nightmares about teeth.

(58:40):
I would say, if you're a tooth dancer, if that was deeply triggering for you.
It was so triggering.
It is burned in my head.
I'm happy to talk about that scene when we get there.
And by happy I mean scarred for life.
Yeah.
So the moth doesn't actually land on any tooth in particular.
It lands on a man who's moving boxes in the back and they negotiate to buy him from the stall owner for one of Mara's teeth, basically the teeth of a nun.

(59:08):
And this guy is like, yep, seal the deal.
And he summons a tooth dancer, which is a horrifying looking stork thing with a human face underneath its bill.
It's just, oh my God, terrifying.
It's so scary.
But it's just got a stork head.
It's got the body of a man in like man hands.
And like the lower jaw of a man and just like, like you can see a man's mouth below the beak, but it's not a mask.

(59:32):
Yes.
Question mark.
And so this tooth dancer comes out and he starts playing a penny whistle that makes all of Mara's teeth literally dance in her skull.
And Liz is freaky gout.
One of these days, like one of the teeth had been bothering her until they were going to take that tooth out.

(59:53):
And while she said it didn't hurt, I can't imagine it not hurting.
So that, so she asks the tooth dancer, like, is it going to hurt?
And he says, no.
And then after this horrifying ordeal, she even says like it didn't hurt, but I wish it had.
I would have preferred it.
I would have preferred there to be pain.

(01:00:15):
Yeah.
How much did your skin crawl?
Oh, it was so triggered by this whole scene.
And I think the next time I have my tooth dream, it is going to take the place of this.
And I'm going to wish for my old teeth dreams to come back.
So.
So this book will have a lasting effect on you.

(01:00:36):
It will.
So his penny whistle makes all of her teeth dance in her mouth.
She can feel all of her teeth moving and jiving.
Yeah.
And he starts and she talks about like the tooth that was bothering her like aggressively hammering like against her cheek.
And he starts playing like more vigorously in her teeth, like move more vigorously until there's like a little pop.

(01:01:03):
And the one bothering her just like flies out of her mouth and she wants to like spit it out and have the whole thing end.
And the creepy tooth dancer guy, we also didn't talk about his needle beak.
She like puts in her mouth and like taps around in there first.
So Liz, you were talking about how he pokes his little tooth thing and it flies out of her mouth.
Yeah.
And then he just like flies out of her jaw.

(01:01:25):
Flies out of her jaw onto her tongue and he like, whoops, pulls it out of her mouth.
And hands it to the tooth selling guy.
And just like fucks off back to the back room, I guess.
Yeah.
And then they have owned, they now bought a human.
Which and, okay, I have so many.
Fine.

(01:01:46):
The man that they bought is described as being a killer who was caught sleeping in a fairy fort, which is how he ended up here.
He's tall and broad-shouldered with brown eyes.
The last thing that they buy in the goblin market is a glamour for bone dog, which turns him into a big gray hound.
They pay for that with the egg, one of the eggs from the demon chicken.

(01:02:10):
That's really funny.
So funny.
I think they want the demon chicken and she's like, I'll give you an egg.
He's like, so.
Yeah.
So as they leave, they leave the same way they came back and the entire time the man that they bought is basically clinging to Mara and she's clinging to him because they're both just like so overwhelmed.

(01:02:32):
And as they get to the top of the stairs, there's a shadow there that's like lurking for them, but the demon chicken crows and scares it off and then looks very pleased with itself.
I fucking love the demon chicken.
I wonder what that shadow was though.
I know.
I want to know what it is too.
I know.
They make their way back to the tree to basically pass back to the mortal side of the veil and when they get to the tree, the drowned boy is waiting for them, but the dust wife sends him on his way really fucking quick.

(01:03:06):
On the other side, the man that they bought asks if he is finally free and the dust wife confirms, yes, you are free.
We learn this man's name is Fenris and that he comes from a land called Hardak and that he killed a clan lord because the man was a bad man.
He slept in a fairy fort deliberately to end his life because he didn't want to start a war.

(01:03:28):
He was from some kind of overseeing governmental body, he killed this man and it would have required an act of retribution essentially that would have caused a lot of people to lose their lives and so he was trying to end his nobly since suicide is found upon in his culture and he thought that sleeping in a fairy fort would be the way to do that.
Instead, he ended up in a market and estimates that he's been there several months.

(01:03:54):
I think the dust wife kind of get into this argument about like he doesn't believe in fairies despite the fact that he was in the Gotham market and slept in a fairy fort surrounded by fairies.
Yeah, and she ends the conversation by saying you are still wrong, Hardishman, but you were wrong in an interesting way.
I also love that line.
I know.
I feel that way so much about people sometimes.

(01:04:17):
I want to use that with people.
But it's at least interesting.
You're wrong in an interesting way. He is so interesting as a character because he's pretty like nonchalant.
I mean, there's a few times that he asks, like, are you going to kill me?
And he just asks it kind of like that, like, are you going to kill me now?
Like, well, no.
He's like, okay.

(01:04:38):
Cool.
How about now?
There's a couple of times where they get into these particular situations and he and Mara share a look that's where he basically is like, can you believe two people like us ended up here?
No.
Can you believe?
There's also a great line where they're talking about fairy tales and like this, this like this notion of their plan and how they're all like probably going to die.

(01:05:04):
And, you know, maybe the fairy tale is actually going to come true or whatever.
And the dust wife says fairy tales are very hard on bystanders, particularly old women.
I'd rather not dance myself to death at iron shoes if it's all the same to you.
Yeah.
That line about how this is a fool's errand and will all probably die is something that they continually say, which is going back to the blistered lands.

(01:05:26):
Like, they're trying to kill a prince.
It's kind of a big deal.
Yeah, like that's a darkness, man.
I also like that. So the moth chose this man, Fenris, as what they need.
And this is where my note was like, is this where I could steam me? Is this the man you need?
You need.
But then I was like, I don't see how this can possibly be a romance.

(01:05:48):
No.
I don't see it.
But that question is asked. I think Mara asks it.
And even the dust drive is like, for all we know, we just needed him to get through the goblin market.
Like he made sure.
Open a jar.
Yeah, like couldn't tell you what your need is.
Nope.
Yeah.
It could be done now.
Like, yeah.

(01:06:10):
And they talk about that in the context of they're not sure if Fenris is going to stay with them.
But Fenris kind of overhears this conversation and he's like, no, you guys saved me.
I'll be as useful to you as I possibly can be until I die.
Yeah.
Which I thought was incredibly noble.
I think his book had been another like 200 pages.
We probably could have gotten some like steamy romance in it as well.
Yes.

(01:06:31):
But I'm so satisfied with what we have already that that would quite literally just be icing on the cake.
Yeah.
I'm not sure that's Madame Fisher's, King Fisher's vibe also.
Which I'm honestly like.
That's fine.
Totally good.
It's just, it's so sweet.
Like we do get, there is a little bit of romance, but it's very much not the plot.
And it's just nice.

(01:06:52):
It is.
So they begin traveling more and more.
And with the glamour on Bone Dog, they're able to basically help people and approach humans and get help in that way.
So one of the ways that they earn their keep is Fenris will split wood for people and they, those people will in turn feed them or let them sleep in their barn, for example.

(01:07:13):
And this is how they make their way back to Mara's kingdom.
At some point it's cold as they keep getting more and more north.
And Fenris doesn't have any supplies.
They just plucked them out of a goblin market and so he doesn't have like a blanket.
And at some point Mara is like, you can share my blanket and literally not an innuendo, but if you're cold, we can snuggle.

(01:07:37):
And they end up sleeping under the same blanket back to back and sharing each other for warmth.
This was such a relatable moment for me that Mara talks about that I have never read in a book, but that I felt like this is it where she's laying on her side back to back.
And she's like one side of my sinuses starts to get congested and normally it would turn over, but then my back is like smushed into my face is pushed into his back.

(01:08:07):
And as someone who frequently changes sides because one side of her sinuses gets messed up, it puts such a damper on cuddling.
It is so problematic.
And I just love that this was called out in a book as a thing that other people experience.
Beyond that too, she's like shifting a lot and she's like, am I?

(01:08:27):
He's probably awake and really annoyed with me right now.
I really regret I'd rather sleep in the fire.
Just like hyper aware of everything she's doing.
So at some point they make it back into Mara's kingdom and she remarks that she doesn't feel anything and she kind of feels bad about it and Fenris comforts her.
He's like, you know, I traveled a lot in my former life and oftentimes I wouldn't even realize that I was home until like I was 200 miles into the border.

(01:08:53):
So like, you're not alone.
When they reach the town, they're basically like, okay, what next?
And they're talking about needing to thwart this godmother of the prince because she has a geese of protection on that entire royal family.
So they can't touch him unless or magic can't touch them unless that is somehow broken.

(01:09:17):
And so they need a comparable, I'll say, consultant with the same expertise to kind of help them on this journey.
And in order to get this person, they realize that Mara as a princess has a godmother and they're going to go see her.
I love that we're using the word geese now. It's just a part of like normal speech.
Well, now that I know what it is.

(01:09:39):
Well, we all thought it was a fake word, but apparently it's like, yeah, this is the third book that we've had it in.
So they continue on to Treksel to find Mara's godmother.
And on the way they stop in a town, Fenris is going and earning their keep so they can stay at an inn.
And the women are just kind of hanging out by a well in the center of town and they're accosted by a drunk man.

(01:10:04):
And he really, I don't remember what he says, but he's just really making an ass out of himself.
And Fenris comes in and tries to make the situation go away, but ultimately ends up fighting this guy and punching him in the face until he falls down.
And they quickly have to leave.
Yeah, we should go.

(01:10:26):
Even Fenris is like, we should go now.
When they reach the godmother's cottage, we learn that her name is Agnes and that she always gives the gift of health to the children she blesses.
Mara is deeply upset and she lets all of her frustration and her rage about the situation that she finds herself in with her sister on this godmother.
She rails against this woman for always giving health like, yeah, thanks so much.

(01:10:52):
A lot of good that did me and my sisters.
How could you?
You should be ashamed of yourself.
And she makes Agnes cry.
Which I just, this scene was so relatable because like I get where Mara is coming from, but also Agnes didn't do this.
Right, like it wasn't none of this was her fault.

(01:11:13):
And at some point like Mara realizes this and she has another great quote where she talks about how like how could I, where is it?
I'll have to go look for it.
But basically like how could I assume that she was doing anything other than like trying to do the right thing kind of thing?
Exactly.
She's not doing her very best.
Another thing that I really like is we frequently get frustrated with characters who don't feel what we feel like are normal feelings.

(01:11:35):
And I was so excited to see a character get mad justifiably so.
And even though like this wasn't necessarily like the godmother's fault, Mara still was in a place where she was allowed to feel her feelings, get them out, and then have her own like growth moment of like, now I've said what I needed to say, but I understand why.

(01:11:57):
Yeah.
And she immediately regrets taking out her anger on this woman.
Agnes cries and we learn two things.
One, that health is the only blessing that Agnes quote unquote can give and that Agnes is actually Mara's great aunt.
They're related.
We find out that Agnes was the bastard of a king who was essentially enchanted by some fairy lady to sleep with him.

(01:12:28):
And a little bit later she shows up with Agnes, this baby, and the king and to his queen's credit, both of them take Agnes in.
The queen's not mad.
She realizes that her husband was enchanted.
But that's essentially how Agnes got magic in her blood because the rest of Mara's family doesn't have that.
The queen was never unkind to her, like I said, but did send her to live with an old nurse of theirs who had retired.

(01:12:53):
And then when it became apparent that Agnes had this gift, the queen brought her back to bless the royal children on and on.
And that's how she became Mara's godmother.
In their discussion, they tell Agnes what they're trying to do and Agnes immediately is like, well, I'll just get my things then and then we'll continue on.
Like she's in immediately and I love her for it.

(01:13:16):
Let's go!
So they all agree that they're going to be one big merry party, but then Fenris says the five of us.
And this is the one point in the book where I'm like, hold on, I'm not following.
Because I guess we're not counting the demon chicken, I guess?
Or maybe they're just bad at counting.
But we were before.
Yeah, so, but...
Because when he said the four of us, like the demon chicken was there.

(01:13:39):
Well, no, because he's counting bone dog.
So it's the four people, right?
So Mara, Dustwife, Agnes, Fenris, and Bone Dog were not counting demon chicken.
Even though demon chicken is an integral part of the group.
Yes, and demon chicken was counted before.
Yeah, so I don't know, I didn't follow that.
It's a really minor thing, but...
But that is a bummer because demon chicken is...

(01:14:02):
Demon chicken and bone dog are the MVPs of this book in my home.
Yeah, I just don't know why you would count bone dog and not demon chicken.
Right, like if you're not going to count one, don't count either.
But also they should both be there because they're both delinquent.
Yeah, they're both magical animals, so whatever.
Yeah.
Anyway, they intend to set out, but they're a little bit delayed because Agnes is one of those people that packs and repacks and is very indecisive.

(01:14:23):
And basically wants to bring way too much on this journey.
And Fenris is eventually like, you know what, I'll take your extra, it's fine.
And so when they do get on the road, it's, you know, in the afternoon.
And so they don't travel that far, which is fine.
But as they walk, they talk about blessings and curses.
And it comes to light that Agnes can actually bless and curse.

(01:14:47):
She's able to do things like grant someone all sons or curse them or health.
And that's about it.
She can also do very animal specific things because that's what she practiced on.
Like she can give someone keen whiskers, which she admits isn't particularly useful for humans.
This whole conversation was my favorite thing because you have Dust Wife and Agnes and they're just like bobbing along.

(01:15:13):
And Dust Wife is like, you know, that would be a really interesting experiment to give a child whiskers.
And she's like, I can't do that.
Like Agnes is like horrified.
Could you imagine?
Can you imagine?
And there's this question.
I think Fenris asks it like, how do you even become a godmother?
Like, did you go through training and she's like, I wish I just practiced on like cats and then when there were no more cats, I practice on mice.

(01:15:37):
And then when there were no more mice, I practiced on whatever.
It's so delightful.
They also talk about a plan.
Mara tells them the specific blessing that the princess godmother gives.
Oh, this is where I actually write it down.
So as a reminder, I shall serve her as I have served all her line.

(01:15:59):
No foreign magic shall harm them.
No enemy shall topple their throne as it has been for all of the children of the royal house.
So it shall be for her as long as I draw breath.
And there was a lot of specific things in this, but I did not pick up on the thing that ended up being important.
I picked up on that as long as I draw a breath thing.
I was like, so can you she just hold her breath and you can like kill him or something?
Yeah, I was attuned to that too.

(01:16:21):
Or the whole like magic can't touch you.
I was a glass problematic, but which was very clever because it's such a well written.
Blessing for the purposes of this book where it's not clear the part that matters.
And I appreciated that because so many books we read are so like beat me over the head.
Yeah, exactly.
They also talk about the possibility of the dust wife raising an army of the dead,

(01:16:44):
but she says that's not a good idea to have this like army of things that only know how to kill.
And then once you're done with them, they don't really know what to do.
And so that never works out really well.
She's so chill because they ask if she could do it.
She's like, I don't know.
I know how it would start, but probably wouldn't work for our purposes.
And Fenris is like, well, I can just go in there with a sword and Mara is like, no suicide missions.

(01:17:08):
When they get to the Princess City, they go through the gates and like it's totally fine.
Like nobody talks to them or looks at them sideways and Mara falls down kind of a couple of steps into the city and starts weeping.
Like the weight of what they're trying to do has settled on her walking into this huge city filled with so many people.
And she's like, there's no way that we're going to be able to do this.

(01:17:33):
But the dust wife comforts her and says you wove a cloak with nettle thread and built your own dog out of bones.
And now you're concerned with what's impossible.
Just so powerful.
Yeah.
Yeah.
She's like, I'm not understanding.
I'm not following.
Bring me along.
I've done the impossible so many times like now you're worried.

(01:17:54):
So they're in the city.
They don't know what to do or even where to stay.
So Agnes suggests that she could help if they could find her a baby and she clarifies doesn't need to be a human baby, just any kind of baby.
So they go to.
Fenris is like, I draw the line.
I can't.
She's like, we can't even give it back to his mother when it's when we're done using them.
So they end up going to a market to buy a baby chick.

(01:18:18):
And she picks up this black baby chick and she starts whispering to it, blessing it over and over and over again to make it stick.
She starts blessing it with you will find us a safe space or a safe place so that they can follow the chicken somewhere.
And she has to say it over and over again for it to stick and eventually she feels it stick.
And so she puts the chicken on the ground and the chicken starts running off in a direction.

(01:18:41):
And I just think the visual of these four humans, one demon chicken and a bone dog chasing after a chicken through the city.
Hilarious.
Thankfully, the bone does not look like bone now.
No, he has a squammer.
But our ragtag bag of murder hobos chases it through the city.
They are murder hobos.

(01:19:02):
And at some point the chicken kind of like stops and the the blessing has kind of faded or like popped back out of place.
And so Agnes resorts to cursing it.
And she says, you will find us a safe place or you will die.
It's so dark.
But she doesn't let anybody hear that last thing.
Not yet.
No.

(01:19:23):
And we do find out she's so embarrassed.
She's like, look.
And they eventually are led to a house in a neighborhood that is shabby but clean, right?
So clearly an economically depressed area, but safe, quiet off the beaten track.
And when they this next part really, I can't.
So it goes from like, we're like happy.

(01:19:44):
Everything's fun to like it's really dark.
And they they learn that there's a lady in this house that rents rooms and they knock on the door.
She lets them in and when they get a good look at her, they realize that she has a wooden puppet sitting on her shoulder that is alive.
And it has a string tied around her throat that he pulls to choke her when he is displeased.

(01:20:12):
Agnes calls it a cursed child.
And when the landlady leaves them alone in their rooms, we learn that a cursed child is a toy that has basically been magically imbued with all the hopes and dreams and fears of a child that basically happens when it comes into contact with an errant bit of dark.

(01:20:33):
Magic and they come alive.
But usually they're dealt with long before adulthood, so it's really unusual to see a full ass grown woman with one of these cursed child.
I know here's like, can someone I don't know do something about that because it's horrifying.
And that's what Mara says.
She's like, can we we have to do something for this woman?

(01:20:54):
She's like, burn it.
Get the tender.
Yeah.
And so we learned that like basically these toys end up becoming almost godlike and the child that created them is their single worshipper or follower.
And they decide as a group that when they leave, they will offer the woman to take care of the cursed child for her if that's what she desires.

(01:21:20):
Yeah, they don't want to do it without her permission because you can't help people who do not want to be helped.
Correct.
Which was also like, what a way to turn that lesson into this mystical story.
So they have two rooms, Agnes and the Dust Wife and of course the Demon Chicken stay in one, as does the baby chicken who very soon we learn is named Finder.

(01:21:45):
But that means that Fenris shares a room with Mara and in their room alone, Fenris shares with Mara that he learned quite a bit about her when they stayed in the inns in her home city.
He knows that she would essentially be the next victim of the prince.
And he basically says, I feel like I know a lot about you and you don't know as much about me.

(01:22:10):
And so I want to tell you more about myself.
And he shares with, right.
I applaud that so much.
Finally.
I really love him.
I know.
He's such a good guy.
Such a good guy.
I also like their dynamic because they're older, right?
So she's 30 and he's described as being kind of in his 40s, right?

(01:22:32):
Yep.
And most of the books we read, it's like you have this 18 to 25 year old woman and a 3000 year old man.
Yep.
So he shares that the man that he killed was a Lord who tortured and murdered his son because his son basically got captured after a fight.

(01:22:54):
And this Lord viewed his son as a traitor and a coward.
Fenris had delivered the boy to his father and had promised the boy that his father would be happy to see him.
Like, no, you're fine. Didn't realize that the boy was afraid for a good reason and blamed himself for the boy's death.
Mara muses to herself has this really great line.

(01:23:17):
Maybe the weakness of being good was that evil didn't occur to you.
During the night, Mara kind of wakes up and overhears Agnes and the Dust Wife in the other room because the walls are paper thin.
And they're having a conversation where Dust Wife is basically asking Agnes, who was your mother?
Because you're not just fine at curses. You're very good at curses.

(01:23:41):
And Agnes says basically like, don't worry about it. I don't want to use that power because I don't want to be a bad person.
And puts an end to it.
Sort of.
The next morning, Agnes proposes to go see the godmother thinking that she might share more about the blessing as a professional courtesy.
And Mara offers to go with her as the godmother likely didn't notice her at the christening because she was, you know, kind of in the back, off to the side, etc. etc.

(01:24:08):
Can I just say that I really appreciated that?
Like, this book did such a great job of answering questions before I had them or when I had them when it came to like specific continuity things.
It didn't leave them untouched.
Right, which I appreciated.
I did too.
And they were logical answers. They weren't just like, well line fixers. Like it made sense to share the information, but it also made sense as the solution to the problem.

(01:24:35):
It did. Yeah. And it seemed like a logical thing to do, right?
The godmother of the prince doesn't have a reason not to share the trade secret of her curse, or sorry, of her blessing with Agnes, right?
So it's not a secret. She says the thing out loud.
And so the inner workings are, you know, probably only useful to godmothers and the prince is already alive and not a baby.

(01:25:00):
So it won't affect.
Or so it's not going to like hurt anything.
Exactly.
So on their way, Agnes kind of asks Mara in a roundabout way.
Oh, that fennris guy, huh? And Mara is mortified and insists that there is nothing there. And Agnes is like, all right, I'm just saying, a guy like that doesn't come around very often.

(01:25:23):
Well, I saw you looking at him when he was chopping.
With his shirt off.
And Mara was like, you looked at him too.
And Agnes is like, yeah.
I sure did.
And I sure did.
And she's like, I'm like, I'm just going to take a big, big load of muscle over there.
That's all I'm saying.
When they arrive at the princess godmother's house, she actually lives in a temple, which seems bizarre.

(01:25:49):
But she's like almost expecting them and invites them into tea.
And while they sit down to have tea, Mara becomes a little bit befuddled and bored with the conversation that she can't really over here.
And she's just sitting on the walls of this temple that the godmother lives in.

(01:26:10):
The tapestries are very ugly.
They're not coherent.
It's not like they depict a picture.
It's kind of like modern art if it was very bad.
And there's a lot of erratic stitching and patterns and materials.
And Mara, being particularly adept at stitching, is looking at it like, what the fuck am I looking at?

(01:26:33):
And she says, I'm going to do this.
And it's very puzzled.
I know I would possibly do this.
Right.
When they go to leave, the godmother comes up to Mara and is like, do you know what this is?
And Mara says, no.
And she says, OK, great.
I can give it to you.
And so she cuts the bottom half of one of the tapestries off and gives it to Mara.
And Mara's like, what the fuck?
Why would you do that?

(01:26:54):
These are hideous, but they still took a lot of work to do.
Right.
And I certainly don't want one.
Right.
As they leave, Agnes is like, oh, she was very forthcoming and a very clever thing is happening there.
She tells her, she tells Mara that the godmother hasn't been blessing the royal family.
She's been cursing them.

(01:27:15):
So essentially, the important bit of the blessing slash curse is I shall serve her as I have served all her line.
And what essentially is happening is that Agnes thinks that one of the old kings bound this person, the godmother, to his family, and she doesn't actually want to do it.

(01:27:41):
So she's been sucking the life out of these royal people, which is why they age so quickly and why she is still able to be alive.
Yes.
I will also say the reason that Mara became kind of like confused or like a little out of it when she was at the godmother's temple.
Oh, yeah.
And that was because of magic that was being used by the godmother to keep her from really understanding the conversation they were having.

(01:28:06):
She just didn't want to be overheard.
Right.
Which I think is interesting because she, I don't know, I just thought that was an interesting way of handling that.
Well, it's interesting in that most godmothers can't affect like adults, but this godmother is so powerful that she can a little bit, at least temporarily.
Yes.
I also loved this twist on the blessing because like, I never thought the godmother to be the villain, but I did think that she was not going to be helpful or like a sympathetic character.

(01:28:40):
Like I thought she was going to be more of a barrier getting to kill the prince.
And for all of this reveal, like where she ends up not being a bad guy and she was like, listen, I don't like this either.
Like, I'm just trying to get the fuck out of this place too.
Right.
She was just so clever.
When she gave Mara the tapestry, she said, take it, you may find it useful or you may not.

(01:29:01):
And the comment here that Mara had was like, her eyes were boring into her like, you may find this interesting.
Or not.
Wink.
I can't tell you what to do.
Yeah.
And Mara's like, this is hate.
This is terrifying.
Thank you.
I hate it.
Thank you.
So back at the ranch, they concoct a plan to basically speak with the dead king that bound the godmother and have him release the binding.

(01:29:29):
To do this, they need to get into the royal crypt, but they can't immediately find a way in that's unguarded.
Right.
So the main entrance is always guarded.
It's very ceremonial, blah, blah, but they hypothesize that since they're constantly having to expand this place and make new rooms,
there has to be a back entrance where they can do this work probably near a quarry so they can like move the rock that they're excavating.

(01:29:54):
And so if they want to investigate this, they need somebody to work at a quarry and who is the most able bodied person?
It's Fenris.
It's Fenris.
He gives a job at a quarry to hopefully figure that out.
A quarry.
And in the meantime, everybody else waits.
A quarry.
A quarry.
The age of Aquarius.

(01:30:16):
The age of Aquarius.
Why are we like this every single time?
I can't stop it.
So while they're waiting, news comes that the queen, Kanya, has given birth to a son.
Crucially, that's the only information they get.
They don't know if she's dead or alive.

(01:30:37):
I loved this bit.
I actually have a quote where they're trying to get information and the quote that Mara has is,
this is hopeless.
After 10 minutes at as many stories, the queen was dead.
The queen was alive, but dying.
The queen had died and her dying wish was that the prince take her, take religious orders.
The queen was alive, but the baby was drinking her blood mixed with breast milk.

(01:30:58):
It would not survive.
The queen was fine, but tired.
The baby was alive.
The baby was dead.
There were two babies.
There was one baby.
The queen had given birth to a school of fish.
Yeah.
Just like the gossip mill at its finest.
Fortunately, Fenris arrives home and announces that he and the dust wife have figured out
how to get into the real crypt.
So just in time because they math that they have three days until the christening.

(01:31:23):
So after the christening is when the godmother blesses or slash curses the child and they need to release a godmother before that happens.
Mostly because Mara doesn't want her nephew to be bound by this at all, but also because she's terrified that Connie is going to be like immediately murdered by her husband now that she's given birth to a son.

(01:31:44):
Right.
So they talk about the next step.
So let's assume that they find the king.
Let's assume that they get her, get him to unbind the godmother.
How are they going to get into the christening?
And they're like, hmm.
And Mara is like, well, I could probably get in, but you know, that might look a little sketchy if like the godmother's dead or something like that.

(01:32:05):
And Agnes chimes in and she says, I'll definitely be able to.
She says, quote, there's only one story about godmothers.
That's always true.
Bad things happen if you don't invite us to the christening.
I love.
I love these bits of Agnes that come out that are just like, oh, you a bad bitch.
Okay.
You a bad bitch in these like as much as this has like fairy tale vibes or some like that where it's like, this is fairy tale.

(01:32:33):
Like this is a thing like hello, sleeping beauty.
If you don't invite the fairy godmother.
Bad things happen.
Things happen.
She's also got these sweet moments too, because like Mara is freaking out about all of this and like feeling really anxious.
And they're like, and Mara says like, I can fret and I intend to and Agnes says, and I won't stop you.
A good fret is balm for the soul. Just don't overdo it.

(01:32:54):
And I like, I love that line because like sometimes you just got to worry a little bit.
Yeah, sometimes you do. You just got to get it out.
There's also a great line here too, where Mara is kind of talking to herself about how unfair this is and whatnot.
And she thinks to herself, nothing is fair except that we try to make it so that's the point of humans, maybe to fix the things that gods haven't managed.

(01:33:17):
I loved that line too.
So good. So good.
I cannot wait for this book to come in hard cover so I can just read it again and highlight the whole damn thing.
So the night before they enter the catacombs to find this king, Fenris and Mara talk in the dark about what to expect and how terrified both of them are.

(01:33:39):
And Mara eventually asks Fenris to sleep with her so that they can be back to back like they were when they were traveling.
Yeah, crucially not sleep with her sexually, but sleep with her in a bed.
Right, sleep with her in a bed as a comfort thing.
And it's very clear that both of them find this comforting and they're both immediately relieved when this happens because it helps them both fall asleep.

(01:34:00):
And I'm just like, oh my God, it's so sweet.
It's such pure love.
Yes.
As they leave the house the next day, they bid the housekeeper adieu and the dust wife basically incapacitates the cursed child and offers the woman to like get rid of it and the woman starts freaking out.
She's like furious she even offered and begs the dust wife not to hurt it.

(01:34:25):
And so they keep the cursed child alive and leave the housekeeper to her own devices.
Which is terrifying.
Why? So scary.
Yeah.
In the catacombs, it quickly becomes very dark and so they use the moonlight in the earth and jar to see and they wander around until they find a ghost or a room with a ghost still around.

(01:34:48):
So because most of these are so very old, most ghosts don't stick around for very long unless they have a reason to do so.
And boy, does this ghost have a reason to do so.
This ghost is the ghost of a queen who is furious that she was replaced.
She did not bear children to the king that she was married to and so her husband took another and those kids were eventually murdered and the blame was placed on this woman.

(01:35:13):
As punishment, they buried her alive and she's real mad mad about it.
You're straight. No.
And I can't blame her.
But I do love the dust wife's reaction to this.
Calm yourself or I'll lay you back down and find another spirit to work with.
Your rage does not impress me.
Yeah. And this woman keeps saying, how dare you do you know who I am?
The great, the great in the dust wife's like, yeah, I don't know who you are either.

(01:35:38):
So like, let's move on.
None of us know who you are.
Let's wrap it up.
The great.
This woman eventually tells him that her grandfather was buried with his boat, but they won't ever reach it because they'll get caught by the thief wheel before they find it.
And no one knows what that means, even the dust wife.
A little bit ominous.
Super ominous.

(01:35:59):
They leave this woman and they do find the boat and they start heading backwards from there.
In one room, it's very obvious that it had been robbed long ago.
And while they're kind of poking around in here, they hear a whistle.
And then they hear it again.
And then it starts getting closer.
And they realize that it's actually the returned echo of somebody or many voices telling them to run that it's coming for them.

(01:36:26):
And before long, a huge tar covered wheel enters the room.
But instead of it being covered in tar, it's made up of the mashed together souls of robbers and probably some poor laymen who were just doing their jobs.
And those souls are the ones that are telling them to run.

(01:36:49):
Which again, we were having a great time and now it's fucking dark in here.
Yeah.
This is the thief wheel.
Yeah, her cadence is like,
I don't love scary things.
Don't love them.
I love scary things.
But I liked these things were not necessarily scary to me so much as they were like unsettling.

(01:37:15):
And I think the author did a great job of writing things that were unsettling and kind of scary or like uncomfortable, but still like maintaining like a certain level of it's not going to be that scary kind of thing.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's not like exclusionary to people who don't like if you don't like scary or don't like horror, you can still enjoy this book.

(01:37:44):
So the thief wheels in the room with them and the dust wife declares that they are not robbers and so the thief wheel has no power over them, but the thief wheel does not care and runs the dust wife down extinguishing the moonlight and plunging them all into darkness.
Mara thief wheel gives no fucks Mara is disoriented and the wheel comes for her to and drags her around but eventually she's dropped.

(01:38:08):
And when she is dropped, she basically passes out for some amount of time and when she wakes up she's alone and in complete darkness, which is horrifying.
Yeah.
She essentially has to feel her way along the walls until she, I guess, tries to hear her friends.
So she goes along and realizes at some point that instead of a wall she's feeling a death mask and she freaks out backs up and then gets immediately lost.

(01:38:38):
She doesn't remember which way she came in, which way she was going, and she puts her back to a wall and starts to cry and despair a little bit.
And just as she does, she sees a dim light starting to appear and grow closer. It's described as being a very golden light, much warmer than torchlight.
And as it gets closer, she realizes that she's seeing the saint from the goblin market, the woman with the left hand that she holds in her right hand and she gestures to Mara with the left hand that's being held with her right to be quiet.

(01:39:12):
She basically puts the left hand finger against her lips, but she's holding it with the right hand. It's very creepy.
Yeah.
It's very creepy. It's, yeah.
And she gestures for Mara to follow her and so Mara follows her in silence and as they walk, she realizes that the saint in front of her is actually getting dimmer and growing more transparent and starting to disappear.

(01:39:34):
But as soon as she disappears, she hears the voices of the rest of her murder hobo friends and realizes that the saint has led her back to saint.
So one of the things she also says while she's walking along with the saint is like, a long time later it would occur to Mara to wonder why the saint had been there in the Palace of Dead Kings.
At the time it did not. She was a saint and saints walked wherever they would. I too would like to know why that saint was there.

(01:40:00):
I am fascinated. I would read a whole book about that saint.
Yeah.
Me too.
When she reaches her friends, Fenris embraces her and is like, I thought I'd lost you. I'm so glad you're okay.
And we realize that they had all been kind of scattered to the winds and they lost essentially about a day.
Not great when they had three to start with.

(01:40:22):
Yeah.
So they continue on and they eventually find the right tomb that they're looking for.
They wake the king up and he is immediately haughty and imperious, tells the dust wife basically to go fuck herself that she can beg and he might consider releasing the godmother, but won't promise to it essentially.

(01:40:43):
And rather than calling the godmother a godmother, he calls her a witch skin, which is an interesting term that I've never heard before.
No, but I like it.
Yeah. So the dust wife is basically like, yeah, how about you go fuck yourself? I will make you do this. And so she releases the demon chicken upon him.
And what that means is the demon chicken sits on his death mask and starts pecking at a crack in the face of it, which for some reason causes the king pain.

(01:41:12):
And so the chicken is attacking the death mask.
The ghost of the king has basically imbued the entire chamber with his power and so there are murals on the wall of like his conquests and his power makes the soldiers in those murals come alive and start to try to attack the dust wife.
Eventually, though, the dust wife does overpower him by bashing the murals on in the room with her staff, along with the demon chicken pecking at his death mask.

(01:41:44):
But this again causes the light to go out in the room.
And so Fenris is fumbling for a candle in his pack and he's saying candle, candle, candle, candle, candle.
I get the impression he doesn't like the dark very much.
No, definitely not.
And in the aftermath, we learned that it's not that the bond has been broken, but the dust wife has silenced the king or like put him out of commission long enough for the godmother hopefully to slip her bonds.

(01:42:10):
And the chicken, the demon chicken tells everybody what she thinks of the king by shitting on the desk.
So now that they have this task done, they're like, all right, to the christening.

(01:42:32):
Fuck, where are we?
We're just lost in these catacombs.
Yeah. And Mara has been kind of ruminating on something in the back of her mind.
She still thinks about the tapestry that she has with her.
And she realizes that the tapestry is a map of the catacombs and it will show them the way out.
And it leads them right to her temple.

(01:42:54):
So not only they don't come out the way they came in, they came in through a quarry.
This is also not the main entrance that's guarded.
This is a different entrance to the catacombs that leads directly to the godmother's house, which is that temple.
When they go to the house, they see the godmother and she is essentially waiting around to see who freed her.
And it's Agnes and Mara and she's like, well, it's obviously not you two.

(01:43:19):
And it's not Fenris.
And then the dustwife comes out and she's like, ah, so it was you.
You have power over the dead.
And as soon as she does this, she starts to turn into a pile of dust and is no more.
So on to the christening.
They go.
Mara goes first and alone and is allowed to go in.

(01:43:44):
Kanya and her mother are both surprised to see her and she tries to basically tell Kanya what has happened but doesn't get a lot out.
She just says she's out of breath once.
So she says the godmother.
I'm sorry.
I'm late.
But before she can really say more words, everybody is kind of asking where the godmother is because she's late.

(01:44:07):
She hasn't shown up.
And instead of the princess godmother, Agnes shows up.
Agnes enters the throne room and everybody's just like, who the fuck is this bitch?
The fuck are you?
And she says that she will stand in as the godmother and nobody knows what to do.

(01:44:33):
So they just kind of let her.
It's not like a precedent for this.
And Mara knows what's about to happen.
So she's holding her sister back from getting to the baby that's about to be blessed.
But as Agnes approaches, she kind of draws herself up and her eyes are described as being emeralds that are on fire.

(01:44:54):
And she's this very intimidating person even though physically she's not.
And she curses the baby boy to grow up fatherless and healthy.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And after this, the room erupts into chaos.
Yes.
The prince tells his guards to seize this woman and bring her head to him.

(01:45:17):
Agnes starts running for the door, but then bone dog appears and starts attacking the guards.
But then other guards rush bone dog and one of them takes a pole arm and puts it into the back of bone dog and he scatters all across the floor.
I do need to make a caveat right now because if listeners, if you were upset by this, don't worry, I was too.
I'm going to go ahead and spoil it a little bit.

(01:45:38):
Bone dog turns out to be okay in the end.
Yeah.
I was we'll cover how I have a crying emoji in my notes.
Right.
I was, I was going to be really upset.
Like I, I love horror.
I love creepy things.
If a dog gets hurt in a book, I am done with that guy.
Can't do it.
And I felt the same way in this book.
If demon chicken died, I was like, yeah, that's why I have to make a caveat that like bone dog will be okay.

(01:46:04):
And we'll cover how you don't have to like, eat this book out or eat this podcast out your window.
Right.
Yeah.
Bone dog will be fine.
But bone dog is basically turning into a bunch of bones and like not making sense for how a dog should die.
Gives Fenris the opening that he needs to kill the prince and he basically just walks up to the prince.
He puts a hand on his shoulder and a sword through his back.

(01:46:26):
And he's like, Hey man, he's immediately, he's immediately rushed by guards, obviously, and surely will be killed except Kanya takes the power of the room and demands everybody to hold.
Stop what you're doing. Let's just take a minute.
She demands that Fenris be taken alive so that she can know everything that's in his brain and know who attacked them.

(01:46:49):
She gives Mara an out saying, I understand you were trying to warn us now and Mara says, totally.
Yeah, that's what I was doing.
100%.
She, Kanya declares that she will act as regent for her son who is now lawfully the king and she pulls two other men who we come to understand are basically her, the two most powerful rivals within the northern kingdom and she calls on them to act as regents with her.

(01:47:20):
And in one fell swoop, seals her power and tastes control of the situation gives Mara and Fenris an out.
So I have a question for you guys.
Obviously, the child was cursed to live fatherless.
In my mind, I thought that meant that like the father, like the prince would basically just fall apart.

(01:47:41):
Right, like he would just wither into nothingness at a certain point.
But I guess in like, and so it wasn't happening and when like, then I was like stabbing him, I was like, wait, why do we even have to do this? Shouldn't he just die? But then I realized that like much in the same way of like, you know, we needed him but we didn't know what he we needed him to do.

(01:48:02):
Magic doesn't exactly work necessarily always that way. Like, yeah, for the godmother withered away to nothing. But that doesn't mean that the prince would have based off of that curse. Right.
And I thought because I had a similar thing but a similar thought that he would just like, I'm like not existing more. But I think it was a good way of tying in these lessons that we get in like any good fairy tale. But like with the curse child, the curse puppet, like you can't help someone who can't help themselves.

(01:48:37):
So like you're saying like magic can only go so far. Like I can give you all of the things but you still have to deal the blow. Right. I can make it easier but like you have to do it. And I really like that idea of magic.
Yeah, I do wonder though, it kind of dooms Kanya to be alone, though, also.

(01:49:00):
Oh yeah, because is it like biological fatherless or can she just never have love?
So Mara debriefs with her mother and sister and they speak about how, you know, Kanya effectively secured power and how relieved all of them are that the prince is dead but they don't really know how to save Fenris until Mara remembers the woman who was buried alive.

(01:49:24):
So Kanya buries Fenris with her husband as punishment and the people love her for it. They find it brutal and effective and appropriate and the plan obviously is that the dust wife and Mara are going to break him out but it's very brutal.
She also dispatches emissaries to hard act to understand why the fuck they attacked them, blah blah. And Mara and the dust wife do rescue Fenris and he's just a little bit scarred. He's just a little bit tortured and a little bit scarred and he's very grateful to see them both.

(01:49:57):
This poor man, he also, he's like, so how many days has it been and the dust wife is like maybe half a day. He's like, what? Just half a day? She's like yeah.
I think she's like 14 hours. It was a day and a half. But he was like, it feels like it was a lot longer than that.
A day is 24 hours.

(01:50:19):
Yeah, it's like half a day. You got there. It's okay. It's okay.
It's beautiful tropical fish.
There, there.
So our merry band of murder hobos. So Agnes had was able to escape the throne room and disappear essentially.
They keep calling them murder hobos. They actually only murder one guy.

(01:50:41):
Yeah.
Yeah, but they are hobos. Does that not make them murder hobos? You only have to murder one person to be a murderer.
Our merry band of rag tag friends.
Is that better?
I just like the term murder hobo. I just think it's fine.
I get it. I just, clarification, they only killed the one guy and he deserved it.

(01:51:04):
But that makes you a murderer.
Once you murder an old murder.
And to be clear, Fenris killed two people.
And also we don't know how many people Dust Wife has killed because like she's just kind of shady.
Yeah, she's a little sketch.
Right.
Anyway, they leave the city in a wagon kind of smuggling Fenris and to a certain extent Mara out.

(01:51:25):
Mara had essentially said goodbye to her sister before she left knowing that it would be for good.
Someone would eventually remember what really happened at the christening and beyond that her sister warns her that the queen's only going to be, you know, happy for you to be a quote unquote none for so long.
Eventually she's going to try to ship you off and marry you for some political purpose.

(01:51:46):
And that makes Mara's skin crawl.
So she leaves that life completely behind.
And her sister Kanye gave her some money and a bag of bones saying that the guards made sure to get every single last one because they were too afraid that they would be cursed if they would if they left one behind.
And this is of course, straight bone dog.
Outside the city, Agnes and the dust wife decide to split off.

(01:52:09):
Agnes is going to go back to the dust wife's place with her because eventually somebody is going to put two and two together and start looking for Agnes because she's very clearly the godmother of Mara's family.
But before they do that, they have to go back to Agnes's house and get some of her things and her chickens and things like that.
She just like decides she's going to go live with the dust wife.

(01:52:30):
Yeah.
The dust wife is like, what?
You and me. She's like, yes, but I need to bring my chickens.
She's like, okay.
Okay.
And they just like right off with demon chicken and with demon chicken with demon chicken.
She's still there.
So this leaves Fenris and Mara to their own devices and Mara basically asks what's next and, you know, Fenris can't go home because he's a wanted man.

(01:52:59):
Mara doesn't want to go back to her place.
And so they basically decide to stay together and perhaps go back to the goblin market and free some of the other humans that were trapped there.
Who knows.
But before they set off to do that, Mara toils a whole day and a whole night, putting bone dog back together.
And when she's done, he doesn't immediately wake up.

(01:53:20):
And so she starts begging him to wake up and weeping.
And one of her tears lands on the flat of his white big blockhead skull.
And that wakes him up.
And she is just so grateful.
She says she's lost her family, the abyss and so many people that she can't lose him to.

(01:53:41):
And he goes back to her legitimately started to tear up when she was begging bone to wake up and he wasn't waking up.
I know.
I was like, fuck about to cry.
I was near tears firmly believed at that point that the author would not have given us that that that piece like not given the bones back if bone dog wasn't going to come back.

(01:54:03):
So I was like, no, he's coming back.
He's coming back.
Yeah, I just like, no, and I needed to believe that too.
But I was just like, God, damn it.
This is so damn it.
I was not to be so upset.
Yep.
And there are parting scenes between Mara and Fenris and they start leaning close together, giving into the feelings with each other and would have kissed except that bone dog decided they were wrestling and joined the fray.

(01:54:32):
Which was also such a cute ending.
Like, okay, we're here for steam.
We are the space traders, but it's just such a pure little love story.
Yeah, like for all of the books that we have read and will read that's just like smut and no feelings and no plot.
Like I was here for the feelings here.
Yeah, it was so here for the feelings.

(01:54:54):
My last note is what a wonderful whimsical story this is.
Yes.
So good.
Yes.
So let's get into our ratings.
We are unanimous in our ratings.
We are hardcore unanimous.
So I will read off our spice level.
It's fairly obvious.
There was no spice in this book, so we gave it an N.
Liz, will you tell us how we rated the writing style?

(01:55:17):
All three of us rated the writing style at a five out of five, which I think might be our only ours like second five star book.
I don't remember. It doesn't matter, but five out of five. This writing was just so gorgeous and magical.
And like I mentioned before, and we all did that even these like magical phrases that were being used were still so human.

(01:55:41):
Like it wasn't whimsy for the sake of just being whimsical.
It was just human and magical at the same time.
And I just, holy shit, this book guys. So pretty.
So jumping off of that does how do we rate the quality of the story?
We gave it a five out of five.
The story was just so good from beginning to end.

(01:56:05):
And when they were parts that like we still have questions about, but like they're not egregious questions.
They're like more of like a, I don't even know how to describe it.
But like everything that I wanted answered was answered and things that weren't answered like were fun little like thought things from thought puzzles to work on for my own brain and like the world that was built was so powerful and moving and such a beautiful, beautiful book.

(01:56:39):
100,000 million percent agree.
So if it hasn't been abundantly clear, we all recommend this book, even though it doesn't have any spice.
So it's not really what we're typically reviewing this book.
I, we had said at some point that I feel a responsibility to tell people about this book.
It is just such a beautiful piece of literature.

(01:57:01):
And so if you have time or room on your TV to be read shelf, please add this book.
Yes.
Yes.
All right, we did it. Those are our thoughts on Nettle and Bone by T King Fisher.
Thank you as always for joining us on this journey.
What did you think?
Let us know on the socials.
You can find us on Instagram, Facebook, Tiktok, Goodreads and Patreon.

(01:57:23):
That's my starter's pod.
Until next time, we will see you later.
Bye.
Bye.
Bye.
Bye.
Bye.

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