E53: “Pride Preview” From Grit to Glory: Lions' Big Test Against Vikings (with Arif Hasan)

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jason Harwood (00:41):
Welcome to talking grit.
This is it.
This is the big one.
Jacob and I are going to previewthis week 18 matchup for all the
marbles.
It's it NFC.
Number one seed on the line.
Are we going to be the divisionchampions?
Are we going to be the fifthseed?
We'll figure it out thisweekend.

(01:03):
going to have a reef Hassan on.
provides awesome analysis aswe've come to expect with him as
well as awesome conversation.
I just love talking with thatdude.
So let's get on this Jacob.
How are you feeling about thismatchup?

Jacob (01:25):
NFC North.
We've already seen them once.
We're at home, at least, youknow, a good way to finish off
the season.
And we're good.
You know, regardless, really winor lose the, the chances that we
have to go deep in the playoffsare still really high, even if
we do end up falling out, whichis crazy to think about that.
The loser of this is going to bea 14 win team and they're going

(01:46):
to be on the road for the firstweek.
So then if I really needs to,you know, relook at their
playoff seating, but you know,we perform well on the road, so,
you know, I'm not worried aboutregardless of what happens, but
we want the North.
This is what we want.
This is what we've been playingfor.
So I'm man, I'm ready.

Yeah, if you're a fan and I'm sure you are the
lions cause you're listening tothis podcast.
I would not be devastated if thelions lose this game.
I think we're going to win.
I have faith that we're going towin this game, but say something
happens and we don't we, we'reundefeated on the road.
We have a very strong team andif anything, the lions will take
this as an another challenge andthey will.

(02:26):
Perform Dan Campbell.
We'll have this team ready toperform.
Don't worry about what TroyAikman said in his broadcast
about this defense.
We got Alexandra Zaloni comingback.
We're going to, we're going tobe all right, either this week
or the following week.
So don't.
Get your underwear in a bunch.
If we lose this game, don't jumpto 97 one and air all your

(02:48):
grievances of why Aaron Glenn'ssocks and all this stuff.
No, we're still a playoff team.
We're still cool.
We'll go far in the playoffs.
It's just going to be a harderroad, but this team is great.
Based on grit and what would bemore gritty than winning three
road playoff games on your wayto the Superbowl.

Jacob (03:08):
Absolutely.
We hope it doesn't come to that,but if that's what it takes, you
know, it takes more, right?
Whatever it takes, we'reprepared.

Exactly.
So I am jacked to go this game.
It's going to be a reallyawesome environment.
It's yeah, I, I just can't, Ican't say enough about how
excited I am on this game, youpulled up an interesting stat.
For this, for this game.
So why don't you, why don't youtell us about how big of a

(03:39):
matchup in NFL history, this is.

Jacob (03:41):
It's the biggest matchup in NFL history, so it's actually
the, it's going to break therecord for the highest combined
win total against two teams inthe regular season.
So, there has never been aregular season game with two
teams combining for as manywins.
So, us and the Vikings,obviously, 14 wins apiece.
Breaks the previous record, thecombined win record between two

(04:02):
teams was in 2007.
The Patriots and Giants combinedfor 25 wins.
And there are 28 wins combinedbetween us.
So, that Breaks that record andobviously the Patrons and Giants
game, there was not a divisionor anything like that on the
line.
So it literally does not get anybigger than this one.
As far as regular season gamesgo.

Yeah.
And when you talk about thedifference between getting the
first round by and then going onthe road the whole time.
So either you're going to be onroad at home the whole time,
assuming you win that firstgame, or you're going to be on
the road the whole time.
It's going to be, unless.
Some weird things happened.
Some big upsets.
I mean, you could get a homegame as a fifth seed, but not
until the NFC championship game.

(04:43):
So, God, that stat that you pullis amazing.
And yeah.
Okay, you can't overstate howbig this game is, and it's not
just because we're Lions fans.
This is a historic NFL game.

Jacob (04:59):
And that is no doubt why that we flexed it into Sunday
night football.
It's in primetime where itbelongs.

Yeah.
Yeah.
We, you could see this coming assoon as that soon as the Packers
lost to the Vikings, a foregoneconclusion that this was going
to be Sunday.
There was no other game close toreaching any sort of interest or
magnitude of this game.
So you knew that that was goingto be Sunday.
to happen on Sunday, which makesyou wonder why why Sam Darnold

(05:27):
and the Vikings were celebratingso hard, you know, they, after
their win against the backers,they got a tough one coming up
this weekend.

Jacob (05:36):
Yeah, the job's not finished, guys.
Well, we'll let them celebrateand pop champagne or whatever.
But you know, we're focused onthe task at hand.

That's that's correct.
Even with one day, less rest anda trip across the country.
So, all right, Jacob, let's we,we know this team, we played
them.
We don't need to talk abouttheir impact players.
We know division rival.
We've already went over thatthis season.
But let's talk about the playersthat are going to be available.
Let's talk about the injuryreport.
Who showed up on the Vikingsinjury report today?

Jacob (06:07):
Yeah, the Vikings, they just have the notable injuries
listed on here.
Harrison Smith, the safety had afoot injury, but he got a full
practice in.
He was able to play last week.
They expect him to play againstus.
Definitely huge for the defenseto have.
Running back Aaron Jonesactually had a limited practice
as did fullback CJ Ham.

(06:27):
They're both dealing with quadinjuries, they're calling them
limited.
I believe the expectation isthat they're going to play.
But their linebacker Pat Joneshas a knee injury thanks to a
vicious and dirty hit by TuckerCraft on the Packers.
So he did not practice.

But, but I thought only Kirby had vicious
and dirty hits to knees.

Jacob (06:48):
Right.
Kirby's the only one that goeslow.
Yeah.

no, that, that was very ironic that that
happened.
As far as Alliance DaveMontgomery showed up on the
Ninja report as expected.
We're not expecting.
hopefully it's the next game.
Cause it'd be divisional roundgame, you know, assuming we win
this weekend, that would be ournext game.
Hopefully we get them back forthat, that week of the playoffs.
But, you know, he did notpractice.

(07:13):
Manuel Mosley did not practicetheir.
That's chucked up to an illness,which is going around locker
rooms and schools and all sortsof stuff right now.
So, yeah,

Jacob (07:23):
I'm feeling it too.

Yes, exactly.
Jacob sounds a little He's notgiving us his best Barry White
impression.
He is feeling a little, a littleunder the weather.
So he's being a trooper andbeing on here.
So we appreciate that.
Alexanzalone.
And the evaluation period.
So they're estimating a limitedpractice for him today.

(07:47):
I'm hoping he's back.
Dan Campbell seemed to say thatwe'll know more tomorrow.
I feel like with a forearminjury, he could have kept in
shape better than say a lowerbody injury.
So

Jacob (07:59):
Right.

that he'll, he'll be back.
And as far as mentally he'slocked in, we know Alex, what
type of player he is.
It's not going to take very longto him, get to get ready and go.
But another linebacker was alimited limited practice as Jack
Campbell with the rib.
Amik Robertson was a limitedpractice with a calf injury.
And then Khalif Raymond, whichwill be interesting to see if he

(08:21):
gets activated this week was afull practice.
So I'd, I'd love to see Khalifbeing activated for this game.
Just another weapon that wehave.
And frankly, we've been missingsome in the punt return game
since he's been gone.
back out there.
All

Jacob (08:38):
agreed.

right, Jacob, why don't you hit us a real quick
you know, we haven't played theVikings since week 17, where are
they showing up?
Stat wise right now than thelast game of the season.

Jacob (08:49):
Yes, where they stand right now, Pro Football Focus
has the Vikings rated as thenumber 7 overall team.
Breaks down their offense israted number 5.
Statistically they are number 9in points scored.
They are 12th in yards per game.
Fifth for passing yards, 19thfor rushing yards, the defensive
side of the ball, they are rated10th on pro football focus, but

(09:12):
they are number four in terms ofpoints scored or points against,
they are 16th and defensiveyards per game 28th and passing
and second and rushing.

Yep.
A rush defense is nothing tojoke around with, but Jamir
Gibbs kind of tore it up thelast time, put a, put them in a
blender.
So hopefully that he can do thesame here.

Jacob (09:34):
Yeah, we need more of the same amount of gives for sure.

This is a monumental matchup just from
overall rankings, stats,everything.
You cannot overstate how bigthis matchup is.
So let's talk to someone that'sgoing to give us a lot of
information.
We're going to hit the break.
We got a reef coming in and welove talking to him.
And this is Can't missinterview.
There's some really goodquestions.

(09:58):
I hope you guys enjoy it.

(10:26):
We are lucky to have this guyback on.
It is Arif Hassan from WideLeft.
He covers NFL there.
Arif, thank you for, taking timeout of this busy week.
Awesome matchup.
Thank you for coming on.

Arif Hasan (10:38):
no, thanks for having me.
I really love, I mean, theability to just talk about this
game in particular.
So I, this is going to beexciting.

Yeah, I know.
When the schedule came outbefore the season, I was like,
why are we got the Vikings thelast game of the season?
It's going to be us in thePackers.
And.
Oh, I was dead wrong and this isturned out to one of the best.

Arif Hasan (10:57):
Most of us were.

Yeah, man, you, Arif.
You, you had full faith in SamDarnold the whole, even
throughout the whole process.
Right.
You thought it was going to gothis way.

Arif Hasan (11:08):
Of course, of course.
Now, I

Of course,

Arif Hasan (11:10):
little bit higher on Darnold than a lot of people,
but I think I'd be pulling abunch of people's legs if I said
I anticipated, you know, thiswhole deal.

Jacob said before the season started over 4, 000
for Sam Darnold, he did,

Jacob (11:23):
I said 41, I said over 4100 is what I said, and he's
already hit that.

he called it.

Arif Hasan (11:29):
Excellent work.

He got everything else wrong about the season.
I thought Aaron Rodgers wasgoing to do all this.
No, I'm

Jacob (11:35):
That's

Arif Hasan (11:36):
Don't worry

Jacob (11:36):
no, no, no.
Don't you swing that around.

Arif Hasan (11:40):
Yeah, well,

Jacob (11:42):
to be like 14 and three.
So.

I thought Kirk Cousins was going to have better
with all those weapons downthere.
And I'd like that.
And I thought that he was goingto play better.

Arif Hasan (11:49):
weren't alone on that one either, man.

Yeah, I know.
Uh, man, I tell you, Kyle Pittshas been a letdown for them.
And, uh, no one has let downmore than my son who drafted him
in fantasy football.
He just kept cursing him weekafter week.
Kyle.
Two points.
Am I doing?

Arif Hasan (12:06):
I get it.

All right.
Let's, let's talk about thismatchup first.
I, last time we talked to you inweek seven, you gave us the
rundown that the Vikings fansalways feel like the sky is
about to fall, right?
That's, that's what you kind ofparlayed to us.
How are they feeling right nowgoing into this week 18 matchup?
I know they're probably flyinghigh, but are they still

(12:28):
thinking the sky's going to fallor are they, they riding cloud
nine?

Arif Hasan (12:32):
my sense is that there's kind of an internal
struggle within all Vikings fansabout this very question now,
because I published a piece lastweek about that very thing,
about the tendency of Vikingsfans, like guard their emotions
to cynically interpret positiveseasons and stuff like that.
And I, you know, my piece wouldbasically, you know, throw
caution to the wind, right?

(12:52):
You know, make sure to like,enjoy what you can and, and,
and.
Put your faith and hope in thisteam, because this is probably
the best chance you'll have in awhile.
This is a genuinely good team,you know, not like, cause I was
not a believer in that 2022squad, right.
And I was really suspicious ofthe 2017 squad, right.
This feels like more substantialto me.
And I think that a lot ofVikings fans are having this
conversation.
The responses to that piece werebasically like, yeah, I'm in,

(13:14):
I'm all in.
I'm going to let them hurt me.
Uh, cause this is like the only

Jacob (13:18):
Okay.

Arif Hasan (13:28):
half that are like, no, I'm not letting this team do
this to me again.
I'm going to watch them everyweek.
I'm going to want them to win,but I'm not going to hope I'm
never going to hope.
Right.
And I get it.
Right.
Because like, again, if you'renot like part of the fan base or
you're skeptical, like, why arethe Vikings fans saying, what
was me about a 14 win team?
It's really difficult to putinto words, all of the Vikings
history where it's been, win,win, win, win, lose, right.

(13:48):
Win, win, win, win, lose.
Like a lot of people rememberthe 98 season, but not a lot of
people understand that this hasbeen happening really
persistently to the fan baseabout every seven years.
I think it was Bill Simmons whowrote that no, uh, no, team?
has annihilated their fan basemore consistently than the
Minnesota Vikings.
So it's, it's a, it's a rough gobecause you feel weird

(14:09):
complaining about a team that Ithink is like sixth or seventh
all time in NFL wind percentageor something like that.
Um, Because a lot of teamshaven't won the Super Bowl,
right?
Like, why, why is it differentbeing a Vikings fan?
But I think it's, it's the, it'sthe getting close.
It's like, you know, the reasonthat the, the Greeks had a myth
about Tantalus is because he wasalways so close to getting food
and water and was always justout of his reach.

(14:30):
And I think being just out ofsomeone's reach is, is, is a
little bit more excruciatingthan persistently losing.
Although, hey, maybe the Lionsare gonna give us a good test
case.
You know, either way, I don'tknow.

Oh, man.
All right, Jacob, go ahead.

Jacob (14:47):
Uh, yeah.
So next question that we haveafter last week's win, you know,
you have the locker roomcelebration from the Vikings.
Why do you think the Vikingscelebrated last week's win so
much?
Was there something extra atplay or was it just, you know,
keeping the one seat alive?
Was there anything behind that?

Arif Hasan (15:06):
Um, so I think some of it was, um, and I think it's
the same reason that I choselast week to write that piece
instead of this week.
I think some of it was just, it,it felt like they had kind of
arrived, like, you know, beatinga good divisional opponent once,
you know, A lot of people can dothat, right?
Uh, uh, a six win Raiders teambeat a Patrick Mahomes Chiefs,

(15:29):
right?
That can happen once, but havingthat happen, um, twice in a
season is a good indication thatlike, dude, you've got it.
Right.
You've got it.
And I think a lot of this islike, we're, we're hitting kind
of this stretch of play from SamDonald in particular, that I
think really affirms theapproach, um, that the Vikings

(15:49):
took this off season thataffirms the faith that Kevin
O'Connell specifically had shownin him.
Um, and so I think it's like,Hey, this is the Vikings biggest
rival.
Um, you know, that's like a bigpart of it.
This is a known good team,right?
We're going to keep playing themagain and again and again.
And this is a quarterback thatno one believed in that put

(16:10):
together another astoundingperformance, right?
Because you put a perfect passerrating, well, it was nearly
perfect passer rating game, youknow, a couple of weeks ago
against bad defense.
Like that's good.
It's really hard to put up likea one 57, no matter who you're
playing against, it's still theNFL.
That's good.
Right.
But, but, but that game.
I think it was like 119 passerrating and I'm not a huge passer

(16:31):
rating guy, but I just thinkit's it's like a nice everyone
kind of grasps it.
Um, but if you get 119 passerrating 112 or whatever it was
with a pick That's like reallyhard to do you throw a pick and
you still get 110 plus passerrating.
I mean he had A lights out game.
So I think it's the combinationof this being kind of this
really heated rivalry one thatyou know On a specific scale is

(16:54):
like back and forth.
They're nearly 500 against eachother or something like that.
But on a global scale, it's likethe Packers have like 13
championships.
Yeah.
You know, ask any Packers fans.
They'll remind you.
Right.
Um,

Jacob (17:04):
Okay.

Arif Hasan (17:05):
you know, the Vikings, by the way, by their
accounting method, the Vikingsand lions do have NFL
championships, but for somereason, when you bring that up,
they don't count them, but,

Jacob (17:12):
Right.

Arif Hasan (17:14):
Um, but you know, the Packers have all these
rings, the Vikings, it's on aglobal level, it feels like, you
know, there's one sided rivalry.
And so to have that kind of winin this moment, in this season
where people don't know whetheror not to believe in the team, I
think is a big part of it.
Obviously the importance ofkeeping the one seat alive is,
is a component.
I think, um, you know, makingsure that, you know, you've got

(17:34):
the winds rolling and stuff likethat.
That's an, that's an importantcomponent, but obviously, you
know, You know, the big regularseason game is next week.
So why, why is it this week?
And I think a lot of it is justall of these other emotions that
have come into play thatculminate late in the season.

All right.
I want to stick with Sam Darnoldhere, Arif.
This is probably the higheststakes game that he's ever
played in.
This will probably be the mosthostile environment he's ever
played in, at least in myopinion.
How do you think he's going tohandle it this week?

Arif Hasan (18:03):
Uh, beautifully.
Uh, I've, I've come to trust theguy, right?
Uh, and man, like, again, I washigher on Sam Donald than most
people, which means I was leastwrong, I think is maybe the best
way to put it.
Among among a group of people,right?
Which is like, hey, I think hemight be able to put up some
like, you know, average ish playif, you know, if things go the
right way.

(18:23):
Um, because I was reallyenthused by what he did in his
final six games with Carolina.
I thought that he did all rightactually in San Francisco.
And, you know, I believe inKevin O'Connell as a quarterback
developer and the things that Isaw and believed in, I didn't
see or believe enough.
And so now I'm not going tocommit that error.
I think this guy's good.
Um, and I think that when youcompare him to other fluky
quarterback seasons in Vikingshistory, that includes like the

(18:44):
Case Keenum 2017 season that Inever believed in, I mean, I was
having fun watching it, but Ifelt like the bottom would fall
out at some point.
The reason that this feelsdifferent to me is that Donald
is, he's operating the offense,like Case Keenum would not.
Do that.
He would, you'd scramble andmake, I mean, they're really
great highlights, but the, youwouldn't operate within the

(19:05):
confines of the offense.
It relied a lot on receivershaving a ton of contested catch
wins.
You know, he's throwing blind alot.
He had an insane sack rate,something like on 2 percent of
pressures for a good chunk ofthe season.
He had,

Um,

Arif Hasan (19:34):
pocket?
Do you perform well on unblitzeddowns?
Do you perform well on first andsecond down?
Not just third down, you know,sustainability marks that other
quarterbacks that had reallygood seasons don't meet, right.
If you're only good underpressure, you're probably not
going to sustain that like CaseKeenum, if you're only good on
third down, you're probably notgoing to sustain that like
Carson Wentz, right.
Which is.
It's difficult to call it afluke season injuries, but like
the point is that when we take alook at historically, you know,

(19:56):
one off seasons that weren'tmarred by injury, that these are
the indicators that like, Oh,you overperformed a high
leverage downs that don't reallytell us a lot about the future.
And Donald is doing all of thethings statistically.
and second down, clean pocket,unblitzed, you know, standard
dropbacks, normal routes, youknow, within two and a half
seconds, whatever stable measureyou want to use, he's doing
really well there.

(20:16):
And then he's also doing well insome of the other unpredictable
measures, like he's performingreally well under pressure.
He's averaging 10 yards andattempt against the blitz, the
best in the NFL, I think.
Um, know, there's a bunch ofstuff there.
And then you take a look on thefilm and you see it, you see
really subtle pocket management,small moves in the pocket stuff
that people praised.
Like I'm not comparing him toBrady, but he's like the avatar

(20:37):
of like subtle pocket movementto avoid sacks.
And like, you see kind of whatthat looks like with Darnold.
And then you also see dramaticpocket movement.
He does a really good jobscrambling to get out of sacks
and turning those into plays.
You see really good armstrength, which I realize, you
know, talking to a Lions fanbase that's seen Matthew
Stafford, like, you know, it's,it's not that good.
it's a pretty strong arm.

(20:57):
Right.
Um, and, and, um, you know, I'mused to Kirk Cousins who had an
underrated arm, but certainlythese are not in the same
universe of, of strong arm.
He's accurate too.
And, um, you know, I think a lotof us see like some of these
highlight catches and you'relike, well, that's not really an
accurate throw.
And it's, not, but I think fromdown to down, he's been really
accurate turning in like reallygood ball placement, generating

(21:17):
a lot of yards after the catchfor the receivers and stuff like
that.
Um, Um, and so all of the, allof the film traits that you want
in a quarterback, you know, arethere, is he overly aggressive?
Like, yeah, he's going to make astupid decision here or there.
That's what he does.
Um, but again, I'm talking to afan base that saw Matt Stafford
for a while.
It works out mostly like youwant a guy who's going to take a
big shot.
One pick three touchdowns.

(21:38):
Yeah, I'll take it.
So that's kind of, that's kindof where you're at is that you
get.
One or two stupid plays a gameand then you get like four or
five wild plays.
And that's like, yeah, I I'llbounce that checkbook any day,
you know?

Jacob (21:50):
Right.

let's stick with Sam Darnold.
Okay.
We're going to jump to the offseason.
We're going to skip thisawesome, this awesome game that
we have.
Come skip the playoffs week onenext year.
I'm going to give you four.
I'm going to.
I'm going to give you fourmultiple choice options.
Who's your week one starter forthe Vikings?
Sam Darnold, JJ McCarthy, DanielJones, or the field.
Someone else that's not on theteam already.

(22:12):
Who, if I gave you that choice,who would you pick?

Arif Hasan (22:16):
Uh, well immediately it's like the, if I'm doing this
millionaire style, I'm crossingoff, uh, the field and Daniel
Jones.
It,

Okay.

Jacob (22:22):
Yeah.

Arif Hasan (22:23):
race here.
Yeah.
Um, which by the way, I reallylike the way the Vikings have
handled the Daniel Jones thing.
Like, is he going to be good?
I have no idea, but you know,the off.
got turned Josh Dobbs into likea pretty good looking
quarterback for three games.
I just, like, do whatever you

Jacob (22:36):
Yeah.

Arif Hasan (22:37):
man, I trust you.
Um, but, uh, uh, between, um,Darnold and, uh,

You

Arif Hasan (22:54):
and you hear me talk about how actually it's
sustainable.
It's not like a case kinemeter,and You think, what the heck,
man?
Like, why wouldn't it be SamDonald?
And I think there's a couple ofreasons for that.
One is that This was kind of thepromise the Vikings made.
And you know, teams don't keeppromises.
It's a business.
You change your mind.
Right.
But I think it's, it is onemotivating factor, right?

(23:15):
Is that they, they're like, Hey,we're going to make you a lot of
money.
You're going to, you're going tohelp teach this rookie
quarterback, which turns out youwouldn't be able to as much as
you like, cause it got injured.
But you're going to teach thisrookie quarterback.
And you're going to play welland you're going to sign a multi
year contract somewhere else fora lot of money and a lot of
security.
And that's great.
And this season is going to beabout getting Sam paid.
And a lot of players have saidthat too.

(23:37):
We want to get Sam paid, whichI, I'm just kind of heartwarming
too.
Right.
Um, is that's like one.
And then the other is like theVikings made plans cap wise with
that in mind, you could alwayschange your plans.
You have to be adaptable, butthey made plans with the
understanding that they wouldhave a rookie quarterback under
contract and, you know, throwinganother 50 million contract or
whatever Sam Donald, you know,ends up producing is really

(23:57):
going to change that.
And again, sometimes you have tochange, so that's not a
dispositive thing either.
Uh, and then also the amount ofbelief that this team has in JJ
McCarthy kind of stuns me.
Like I've been around this teama lot through a lot of
quarterbacks and I've been ableto talk to people inside the
organization about theirquarterbacks.
And I got to tell you, did notbelieve in Christian ponder

(24:19):
privately as much as they didpublicly.
Right.
Which shouldn't come as a shockgiven how that all turned out,

Jacob (24:23):
uh, um,

Okay.
I think we're just gonna stop atthat.
Okay, so.
Coming out of that round, it'sgonna be in these upper areas in
the middle.
Okay, so for taking the time andbeing here with us during these

(24:45):
Happy Thursday.
Thanks for joining us.

Arif Hasan (24:49):
he is.
And we trust that thoseintangibles are going to produce
the results that we want to see,but they were under no illusions
that the 2015 or 2014 seasonsheralded a high level
quarterback.
They just assumed, uh, that hewould, you know, You produce
that along the way as part ofthe process.
And I think he was on the way.
So, you know, I think that'sfine, but, you know, I, I, I was

(25:11):
here with the head, like I said,Donovan, NAB, and some other
veteran quarterbacks that theybrought in in the amount of
faith that they have in JJMcCarthy is.
Outstanding.
Like they, they've been blownaway at every step of the
process by what he's been ableto do on the practice field,
like before he got injured, ofcourse, and how quickly he's
picking up the offense and stufflike that.
And I think that they're goingto take the chance that the
Packers took with Jordan love,right.
And just let a really highcaliber quarterback walk away.

(25:34):
And I think the Packers risk wasgreater than this risk because.
You know, Aaron Rodgers iscoming off back to back MVP
seasons and you let him walk.
And Jordan Love has been sittingfor a while and he actually
didn't look all that good, uh,when he finally saw the field.
And so you had more negativeevidence than the absence of
evidence like you do withMcCarthy.
So I think that was a biggerrisk, but I think it's a pretty
good model for the kind of riskthe Vikings will want to take
here.
And I think, look, if Donaldends up in the Super Bowl, he

(25:57):
doesn't have to win it, but ifhe ends up in the Super Bowl,
I'm changing my answer.
But I think, I think it's, it'sgoing to be McCarthy.

Yeah, it's an interesting question.
Well, both Jacob and I are hugeMichigan fans, as you can
imagine being from the statethat we're in.
So, uh, we're conflicted.
We want JJ to succeed, but we donot want, uh, him to succeed
with in purple.

Arif Hasan (26:20):
So yeah, so if they, so if they extend time, Donald
and trade McCarthy, that's likethe ideal scenario, huh?

Yeah.
Yeah.
That's not going to happen.
And I, I'm, I, I.
an interesting, um, especiallyfor the NFC North.
I'm really interested to see howthat whole thing develops this
offseason.
know, and there's still a lot ofthis season to, you know, to
help determine that depends onhow far the Vikings go or
whatever.
But, uh, yeah, I'm curious aboutthat.
Okay.
Great.
And then I'll let you next

Jacob (26:45):
mean, you take Kevin O'Connell and you give him a
rookie quarterback with like theright mindset, all the talent
and tangibles and everythingthat you want.
And then you have like that.
What you think is going to bethe perfect mix and just make
him into a.

speed

Jacob (26:57):
You know, a super quarterback

going to be

Jacob (27:00):
It looks like it's going to be great.
So

finally But before that,

Jacob (27:02):
I can see why they like him so much and why they, you
know, really want to go all outfor that.

Arif Hasan (27:08):
for sure.

Jacob (27:09):
Um, next question though, do you think as of right now
that Kevin O'Connell is thecoach of the year, or do you
think that's, uh, that title'sup for grabs this week between
him and Dan Campbell,

Arif Hasan (27:21):
Yeah, you know, if the lions win, because it's, I
mean, they're basically the twofavorites.
They've been the two favoritesfor like three, four weeks now,
right?
Um, yeah, if the lions win, thatmight shift the odds back.
So that's something that's kindof curious.
Um, I would say, and so I think,so I think the way that a lot of
people talk about coach of theyear is in, Is headed in the

(27:42):
right direction, but it's notcomplete.
And what I mean is a lot ofpeople have been comparing the
preseason win expectation to thetotal wins, which means good
coaches can only ever win once,right?
Because then they're, they're,they're preseason win
expectations are just going toremain high.
So it's impossible for them towin, which sucks.
But B doesn't take into accountcircumstances like.

(28:05):
You know, the Vikings had with,uh, under Mike Zimmer with Teddy
Bridgewater, where he's likeknee blew up and it's like,
well, it's the preseason, whenexpectations relatively high and
a new quarterback comes in orthe situation's like this year's
lions, or they've like 18 orwhatever players on injured
reserve.
Like that, I think is somethingthat preseason, when
expectations are captured.
So I think.
We're headed in a good directionbecause I think it's how good do

(28:27):
you think this team would bewith an average coach versus how
good are they now is actuallyprobably the way to take a look
at coach of the year and theclosest we can get or well,
what, how would the season haveplayed out?
Right.
And so, um, it's fair to put DanCampbell in the conversation,
despite this, like, yeah,they've only slightly
overperformed versus the Vikingsmassively overperforming the

(28:50):
preseason win expectations.
Um, I would say that.
O'Connell's work with Sam,Donald really recommends him
well.
And I would put him thereregardless of who wins this
game.
but I wouldn't like begrudgeCampbell winning that.
And, um, I think finding a wayto keep that defense, not just.

(29:12):
Like treading water, but likeconsistently physical and
aggressive as you cycle throughfree agents.
and find like finding outCampbell guys, particularly in
free agency.
Right.
It's like, these guys reallywant to hurt people in a good
way.
Right.
Um, really want to like lay thewood.
Right.
Um, and, and likeenthusiastically approach

(29:33):
football with a passion.
I have some questions aboutwhether or not that technically
applies to Zedaria Smith, Whocares?
He's good.
You know?
Right.
So, um, uh, so like, I thinklike part of, like, I think that
is, uh, an important element ofthat.
And so it wouldn't bother me oranything like that.
I wouldn't say that there waslike some injustice involved,
but I would think that were I tocast a ballot and of course the

(29:56):
Vikings closer than I'm coveringany other team.
So there's some bias there, butI, I would give it to, um, I
would give it to O'Connell justbecause of the way that, you
know, we saw Sam Donald's, youknow, career turn around with
the result of this outstandingseason.

Jacob (30:09):
Yeah.
I feel like O'Connell prettymuch already has that locked in.
Just because the coach of theyear is kind of like how they
treat the MVP award where it'slike The MVP award goes to the
quarterback having the bestseason on the best team You know
if it was literally just aboutthe best team or the best, you
know stats, you know You got thewhole Lamar versus Josh Allen
thing this year but the coach ofthe year historically is kind of

(30:31):
just the team with the mostimprobable season and kind of
like, you know, They're havingthe most outstanding, they're
doing things that weren'texpected.
And I think that's whereobviously with the Vikings have
been able to do and what KevinO'Connell's been able to do with
Sam Darnold.
Regardless of whether they winor lose the division.
I mean, most of the coach of theyear winners are not division
winners anyway.
So I just don't think

Arif Hasan (30:53):
Oh, done your research, man.
I did not know that.
That's a, that's a really goodpoint.

I think, or if you made up a great point, you
know, it's usually based onpreseason expectations, which is
a really poor way of looking atthings because, you know, that's
a bunch of us not, you know,experts or whatever, And that's
traditionally.
I think it's an interestingthing.
We thought Kevin, you know, theVikings were going to have a

(31:33):
down year.
That's what we thought.
Um, we thought the lines weregoing to have a good year.
But you're right.
They've had, the lines have hadall these unexpected injuries,
huge injuries, like Hutchinsonand all that.
And Dan Campbell's.
uh, Been able to produce, youlook something like Cal
Shanahan, who's went through alot of injuries, his team didn't
make the playoffs.
So, you know, it's hard, youknow, a lot of it's a guessing
game, but I think this is aninteresting test case.

(31:55):
And all right, where do we wantto put it in to someone that
overseeded expectations based onthe preseason or someone that
fought through adversity duringthe season or made key
decisions?
You know, Dan Campbell wasgetting a lot of talk about
being gutsy or whatever, goingforward on fourth down that
could play into it too.
Because a lot of those haveworked out for the Lions.
A lot of people like the secondguess those decisions, but you

(32:17):
know, you got a team that's 14and two.
I think he's doing a good job.

Arif Hasan (32:21):
that's for sure.
Thank you.

All right.
Let's stick with some headcoaches.
I know you cover more than justthe Vikings.
Um, are there, you know, howmany head coaches are we going
to see gone on Monday or, andyou know, is there anybody still
fighting for a job or all thesedecisions already made?

Arif Hasan (32:38):
Oh, man, um, I think that to answer that second
question first, I think thatthere are people still fighting
for a job.
I think we're not necessarilygoing to um, everybody who is on
the hot seat, you know, today beon the hot seat on Monday.
I think like a win here thatcould help some people, but I
mean, I think we're not seeingJacksonville Uh, Las Vegas, I'm

(33:01):
curious about the Giants prop,probably not, but it wouldn't
shock me if they like gave himanother chance with another
quarterback.
But you know, that could beinteresting.
Um, I think, I think thePatriot, I think Mayo keeps his
job.
I think McCarthy keeps his job.
I know that's, I saw like somepeople tweet about Zach Taylor
and I get it, but I, I don'tthink that he loses his job.

(33:23):
So I think a lot of the firingsthat.
That we were going to see, we'vealready seen midseason,
including improbably, you know,the bears, right?
That finally fired someonemidseason.
but I think like, yeah, like Ithink we're going to see maybe
two more, maybe three more blackMonday firings, but I don't, I
don't think we're going to seelike a ton of them.

(33:43):
Like, sometimes we see like athird of the league get like
Monday

Yeah.

Arif Hasan (33:47):
that.
but I think a lot of the,there's a lot of the coaches
that were going to be let go,got let go, like, you know, Um,
New Orleans or New York or, youknow, the Chicago.

Yeah, selfishly, with our coordinators being out
there, I'm hoping there's not alot of openings out there.
Just reduce the chance thatwe're going to lose one of those
guys.

Arif Hasan (34:06):
That's fair.
But also it seems like, uh, BenJohnson's extremely judicious
about which ones he wants topursue.
And I don't know that any of theones I named are golden
opportunities.
So, um,

I think that I think New York's out and
Chicago's out just based onownership.
In my opinion.
That's the way I see it.

Arif Hasan (34:24):
yeah.
I think, uh, and if ownership isimportant, then if we do see
that, like really unlikely, inmy opinion, scenario that Zack
Taylor's let go, then eventhough Cincinnati has a great
quarterback situation, I thinkthe ownership, Is probably a
concern, not as big a concern,right.
As some other ownershipsituations, but is probably a
concern for somebody who isextremely, extremely

(34:45):
discriminating on this, like BenJohnson.

McCarthy goes, he's not going to Dallas.
I don't think he's gonna want tobe in that circus.

Arif Hasan (34:52):
Yeah, that's fair.

Yeah.
All right, Jacob.

Jacob (34:57):
All right, uh, next question that I wanted to ask,
um, kind of a popular debatethis week, I guess, from your
perspective, do you view AmonRoss St.
Brown as a diva receiver?
Yeah.

Arif Hasan (35:11):
Oh man.
I saw that tweet go around and Isaw the, I saw the quote tweet
go viral too.
That was like, absolutely.
Um, so I don't like super lovethe term, I guess, but

Jacob (35:21):
Yes.

Arif Hasan (35:22):
know, as, as we like, understand them to be
like, probably Randy Moss,certainly Terrell Owens.
Right.
Right.
Um, and it like of thatcategory, you know, Des a little
bit.
Um, and then at the other end ofthe spectrum to bring it back to
Detroit, Calvin Johnson, all theway at the other end.
Right.
Um, it's more of a diva thangolden Tate, I think, but like

(35:46):
divas, divas tough because itsuggests someone who doesn't
work hard, right.
And Amin Ra has like a verystrong personality, right?
But it very, and, and he's veryvocal about it, but it very much
doesn't seem like, I mean, firstof all, he definitely works
hard.
There's no question about that.

(36:07):
Um, But it very, much doesn'tseem like it is the kind of
attitude that And you probablyknow more than I, do is
necessarily detrimental to liketeam cohesion.
Certainly as wins are piling up,that's not going to happen.
A lot of DVR receivers are fineon winning teams.
So the true test is like in badcircumstances.
Um, but I, I think probably notin terms of the way we

(36:29):
understand what the term issupposed to mean, but I think I
get where people are coming fromon that one, because.
Like, is not going to endear meto your listeners.
I personally find him annoying.
um, so so if that's, if that'sthe criteria, yeah, sure.
Uh, but I don't think that'swhat people are supposed to try

(36:51):
and communicate when they saythat.
So, you know,

I, for my part, we, we asked the

Jacob (36:57):
Hello, everyone.

Cause it, um, I don't know what podcast, I think
it might've been the pride ofDetroit guys, Morgan or
something said that whenever he,you know, Amin Ra does a first
down, he takes whatever theother

Jacob (37:28):
Yeah.
Yes.

Arif Hasan (37:57):
loves to get under people's skin.
Um, and, uh, and I think it wasa, he and Odell who fought,
right.
Uh, and then Cortland Finneganspecialized in getting

Oh, yes.
Okay.

Arif Hasan (38:11):
it always had that reputation of getting under
people's

Okay.

Arif Hasan (38:37):
the reason people dislike Terrell Owens is because
he hurt his team with whateverhe was doing.
Right.
And, um, he was very much, andyou know, maybe I'm wrong.
I don't know the guy, so I'mspeaking entirely in terms of
perception, but like it verymuch looked like he cared much
more about his personalwellbeing at the expense of

(38:57):
other things that are happening,cared much more about getting
his targets in his yards and theteam winning.
And I do, I would do want to saythere's a difference between
perception and reality here.
Stefan Dix got, got this labeland Stefan loved getting
targets, but he didn't reallycomplain after wins.
There's only after losses thathe talked about

Jacob (39:16):
Okay.

Arif Hasan (39:35):
of like, where I just put like golden Tate on
Amon Ra, right.
But I think in terms of like.
Having strong personalities thatpeople have strong reactions to,
like if that's the spectrum.
Yeah.
Like I think that instigator isreally good.
A really good name for that kindof category of player.
Cause it's, it's annoying ashell, man.

Jacob (39:56):
Yeah, I think that's why they're kind of just like using,
because the term diva, like howyou just said it with trailer
ones and everything's puttingyourself above the team and you
care more about your targets andstuff versus the wins and
losses.
And that's definitely not howI'm in rise.
I mean, he's got times wherehe's only targeted four or five
times, only a few catches, youknow?
Isn't definitely not on thesideline in Ben Johnson's face.

(40:18):
You're never going to see him,you know, tell him, give me the
ball or throwing his helmet offor anything like that.
But I do think that people, uh,view him as unlikable.
And that's probably why, youknow, all the diva talk is
coming and he's got his ownpodcast now.
So now it's, you know, He's moreout there, more vocal, you know,
you'd never hear Calvin, like alot of people never even heard

(40:39):
Calvin Johnson's voice.
They didn't even know what hesounded like just because he was
so just about, you know,

Arif Hasan (40:43):
Yeah.

Jacob (40:44):
work and everything.
Just not any outside stuff.

Arif Hasan (40:46):
Yeah.

I just thought about this question while we
were talking about the almondround thing, uh, Justin
Jefferson or Randy Moss.
I want to know, like, if you hadto pick a right now, I, if you
had to pick right now, you'restarting a team.
And you get prime right now,obviously not Randy Moss now,
but prime Randy Moss or JustinJefferson, I don't know,
whatever you want to say isprime is right now or whatever.

(41:10):
What, what are you starting yourteam with?
Are you starting with Randy orare you starting with Justin?
I should have gave you some time

Arif Hasan (41:17):
Yeah,

Jacob (41:18):
that's tough on the spot.

Arif Hasan (41:21):
yeah, making me pick a favorite child, you know,

oh yeah, well, sorry.

Arif Hasan (41:26):
uh, I got, I, I hate doing this.
I hate doing this, but I got topick Randy dude.
Uh,

Jacob (41:32):
Yeah.
Yeah,

Arif Hasan (41:36):
identify historical players as historical greats.
Is a little bit greater thanthey were because of the benefit
of memory and nostalgia.
And so I don't want to saysomething like it's like
disrespectful to compare it,especially statistically.
Like, obviously you understandwhat the comparison comes from.
Um, like can do anything, butRandy can do anything, right?

(41:58):
Like you, you understand likethe difference, like I, if I'm
building an offense, um, youknow, I can, I can put Justin
Jefferson in any offense and hethrives.
I can put Randy Moss in anyoffense and he thrives.
you can build an offense aroundJustin Jefferson.
Obviously the Vikings have donethat.
Like the part of the reason thatthey hold onto the ball so much
is because of how much theytrust Justin Jefferson to get

(42:20):
open late in a rap concept orto, um, improvise in a way that
aligns with what the quarterbacksees on the field, like those
are really important.
So they built the offense aroundthem.
Um, but like you can.
Build an offense around Randy ina way that is devastating and
explosive and soul wrenching,right?
Like Justin Jefferson reallyscrewed up a lot of, a lot of

(42:41):
defenders in the division.
Right.
But like Randy Moss made thePackers draft three defensive
backs in a row after his rookieyear.
insane.
So like I'm, I'm picking Randy,but that's absolutely no
disrespect to Justin.
Like there's not a ton of otherhistorical receivers that I'd
pick ahead of Justin.
Um, Like this is how much Irespect Justin Jefferson.

(43:04):
I'm saying maybe Jerry, right?
Like that's, that's where I'mat.

Jacob (43:08):
yeah.

It's a good, uh, good problem to have if you're
picking between those two, Randyand, uh,

Arif Hasan (43:16):
Yeah.

Jefferson in your history.
I mean, it's interesting.
Does would attitude go in at allwhen, if you were picking that
it would, You know, Gabe, sayJustin gives a couple more years
of, you know, what he's beendoing now.
I, I never were, you know, nevertalked to Randy.
I don't know him.
I mean, he had the, that labelof maybe taking plays off or

(43:37):
something like that.

Jacob (43:39):
Okay.
Okay.
Okay.

Arif Hasan (43:58):
um, poorly operating team.

Okay.
Okay.
Okay.
Okay.
Okay.

Arif Hasan (44:18):
to point it out, watching it.
I don't think he did.

Jacob (44:21):
Okay.
Bye bye.

Arif Hasan (44:48):
I go, I go is, is more what he is like, you know,
attempting to suggest and not,you know, I play when I feel
like it is, is how it wasinterpreted.
Right.
And that kind of contributed tothe, to that perception.
And the fact that he does notlook very fast when you just see
him running because of how longhis legs are.
and how explosive like each stepis he looks slow.

(45:10):
So we always looks like he'sjogging even when he's running a
four, four, one or whatever.
Right.
Um, so I think that's part ofit.
Um, and I think that peopleassume that receivers with big
personalities, Um, and I'mdefinitely not including Amanra
on this one because I thinkeveryone just assumes that he
blocks like a demon becausethat's the attitude that he's
given us.
Um, but like, I think peopleassume that receivers that have

(45:33):
that D.
Va label, to bring it back tothat previous conversation,
don't block or take plays off orwhatever, and that's not
necessarily the case.
Um, that sometimes thesereceivers that, that draw a lot
of attention to themselves,sometimes they will, you know,
be aggressive workers on thefield on every play.
And that's, that was my, myperception of Randy was that he

(45:54):
did take plays off.
And after looking over it again,when I was able to watch a
couple of games and have accessto some tape and stuff like
that, and, you know, rereadingsome of these interviews in the
fuller context, I think, no, um,I think the attitude is a much
smaller problem, but it willsay, Um, he had a lot of trouble
communicating.
And the, I think the media inMinnesota did, uh, did him a
disservice.
And I think he reacted poorly tothe fact that the media didn't

(46:15):
disservice.
And I think that is on him.
and so I think those attitudeissues are there.
I think he created a lot ofproblems for The Vikings in
2010.
When he came back to the team,those are, those are his issues
that he created.
Right.
So I don't want to say thatthese don't exist.
I just think that they exist ina smaller, uh, Um, capacity than
I think, given, um, given his,uh, given his attitude or given,

(46:38):
like, the perception of hisattitude.

Okay.
Good.
Now, now I'm going to put youand Randy in a room and you guys
will talk out here now.
Randy come on the show.

Arif Hasan (46:51):
Yeah.

All right, Jacob.

Jacob (46:55):
right, the last question just the if you give us a
prediction on the game so doesnot to be the final score you
know just if you had to predictsomething is going to happen in
the game

Arif Hasan (47:07):
Yeah.
Okay.
That's fair.
Yeah.
Um, not a final score, but I dowant to make a note that I think
if both teams were fullyhealthy, the Lions probably
washed the Vikings.
And now that that's not thecase, um, it is a much more
interesting game.
I think, and, and I'm stealing,um, something that, that, uh,

(47:27):
you know, prior to Detroitreached out to me to answer five
questions.
So that article is coming upsoon.
I'm just going to stealsomething I said in, in my email

You go ahead.
Yeah.
Um, All right.
Good.

(47:54):
Yeah.

Arif Hasan (48:00):
that at the beginning.
Um, so I think we're, we'reprobably going to see multiple
turnovers from both teams.

Yeah, a reef, uh, you've been, you've been great.
Um, you don't have to be, uh,sorry for, uh, plugging the
pride of Detroit boys.
We have utmost respect for themand, you know, we've had them on
the show.
So, uh, we, uh, yeah, that'sfine.
Look out for that article onpride to Detroit.
When's that coming out or areef.

Arif Hasan (48:21):
I'm not sure.
My impression was tomorrowmorning, but to say,

Jacob (48:25):
Yeah.

Okay.
So maybe by the time this goesout, it might be up there.
If not, you know, keep an eyeout for that.
And I'm, I'm sure it would begood.
I'm sorry that you're not goingto be at the game this week,
Arif.
Uh, but I'll, uh, I won't becheering for your team.
I'm going to be cheering veryloudly, making, uh, false starts
and all sorts of stuff while I'mthere.

Arif Hasan (48:45):
Yeah, no worries, man.
Um,

Yeah.

Arif Hasan (48:47):
I can't make it out.
There's a ton of people inDetroit that I actually enjoy
the city a lot.
I've been to Detroit a number oftimes, both for football and non
football related reasons.
And I love the food.
and so it sucks not being ableto travel as much.
It sucks not being able to see,you know, all my friends from
Detroit, but you know, hopefullyI'll make it out soon.

Jacob (49:04):
All right.

well, maybe for a playoff game in a couple weeks,
you guys will be heading backinto town.
That's,

Arif Hasan (49:09):
Jeez.
That would, yeah.
Oh my

you know, it could happen.
It very well could happen.

Arif Hasan (49:13):
I, I view that as a nightmare scenario, but
certainly,

Jacob (49:17):
Yeah, right.

Well, I, I, for one, I'm like, if that happens,
I don't like facing, you know, Idon't like facing any team three
times.
And if you beat them twice,beating them three times, that's
tough in one season.
So, uh, But it very well couldhappen.
So we'll, we'll see.
Um, we've been talking with ArifHasan, uh, where can they find
your stuff at Arif?

Arif Hasan (49:41):
All my stuff is published over at wide left
football.
I've got pieces on the Vikingspieces on, um, some other NFL
teams.
I have, uh, slapped off a littlebit on covering some NFL teams
in.
Or other NFL teams in thespecific, but I do cover the NFL
at large.
So I've got pieces on that.
I also do a little bit ofpolitical commentary.
So if you're interested in that,

Jacob (49:58):
Right.

Arif Hasan (49:59):
And if you're not, you can skip past it.
Don't worry about it.
Um, and I'll have a bunch ofdraft coverage coming up soon.
People seem to respond reallywell to that.
So I check that out.

Jacob (50:07):
Awesome.

So, all right.
Um, well, maybe we'll see in acouple weeks a reef if, uh, you
know, we get a rematch here.
So,

Arif Hasan (50:14):
sure.
Yeah.

all right.

Arif Hasan (50:15):
back home.

All right.
All right.
Thank you.
We enjoy talking with Arif and,and we want to thank him again
for showing up.
So hope you guys enjoy.
All right, Jacob.
the best man.
He is the best.

Jacob (50:35):
Absolutely.
Always great to talk to you.

Yes, he is for 100%.
So before we get in the keys tovictory, I want to just repeat
something that Jared Goff said,and the post game locker room
celebration, said, I could feelit right now.
We know what's at stake nextweek.
It's a big boy game, nochampagne popping, none of that.

(50:58):
They, they're getting, they'rewanted this game.
Dan Campbell wants this game.
He, he, they're not scared.
They're going to go in and playtheir, Play their hearts out.
So Jacob, let's talk about thiskeys to victory.
Let's get into this.
Who, what's, what's your numberone?

Jacob (51:15):
Yeah.
Number one key to victory that Ihave here is don't start off on
offense.
Don't start slow, but playsmart.
So I think that was kind of animportant focus point.
The last game that we had isthat we wanted to come out
quick.
We wanted to try to score andget ahead and play ahead.
So, you know, that's the don'tstart a slow aspect, but we
also, we ran that fake pun.

(51:36):
It was 4th and 7th.
We ran a fake punt deep in ourown territory.
That was not a very gooddecision.
I didn't like that live as itwas happening.
And, you know, the Vikingsturned that around to a quick
seven points.
That kind of took some of thesteam out of us.
We went three and out the nextdrive.
They got a field goal.
We went three and out again.
I think we only had the ball forlike between four and five
minutes time of possession forthe first quarter.

(51:58):
But, you know, we only gave uptwo offensive touchdowns in that
game.
So the first one was just sofast and it got the momentum
swinging their way.
This is how we operate is comingout fast.
You know, we don't start offslow.
We come out fast.
We put points on the board, weput the pressure on the other
team.
And I think that's just, it'sgoing to be in this kind of a
matchup, especially with thedefense that they have and

(52:19):
everything like that's going tobe key is to get to them
quickly, keep the crowdinvolved.

I like where you're, I like where you're
going with this for me to dothat, to, be good on offense is
stay ahead of the sticks.
And, you know, we talked about,they have a really good rush
defense.
We have to find a way if wecan't rush it, then we need to
get quick passes to Amin RaLaporta.
We need to get in third andshort and not let them unleash,

(52:48):
you know, their complicated bitblitz scream scheme.
They.
I, I have full faith that JJiragoffa is going to be able to
figure that out, but I'd ratherkeep it in third and five or
less and however, we're going todo that either short passing or,
you know, effective running.
So I just stay ahead of thesticks, no stupid penalties,

(53:08):
those types of things.

Jacob (53:10):
Yeah, it's funny how, like, close statistically our
defenses are, because theirpassing defense is rated, we
say, like, 28th in yards givingup, but their rushing defense is
2nd.
And then you flip it over to us,we're actually 31st in passing
yards giving up, and we're 3rdfor rush defense.
We've actually had the fewestrushing attempts against us in

(53:31):
the entire league.
Just because it's, you know,it's not working, teams are
either playing from behind orthey're just abandoning it
because they're having moresuccess in the past game.
So, I mean, it's kind of like amirror image as far as you look
at the stats go that way, butthey have not been affected by
the injuries the same way thatwe have haven't had to overcome
quite as much.

They

Jacob (53:51):
yeah, sorry.

of Vikings fans will tell you the opposite that
they've dealt with injuries, butno,

Jacob (53:56):
Yeah, I don't understand that.
I think statistics, like, basedon the starters, like, before, I
want to say week 1 starters,they've lost 2, is it 2 people
that they've lost?

I don't

Jacob (54:08):
I don't understand how they, I've heard the argument
too, but it just doesn't,they've had like 6 people on
injured reserve, we've got 3times as many people, and I, you
know.
I don't have those numbers infront of me, but I know,
obviously, it's much lower thanwhat we're dealing with, so.
They also, I don't know if thisbothers you the way it bothers
me, but you see those thingswhere they're like You guys are
having the season of your lives,and we're just having a good

(54:30):
year messing around with SamDarnold.
Like, you don't really, there'sno way they really think that,
they're just trying to talktrash.

Yeah, well, I could say that and some of
that's true.
I mean, we are having the seasonof our lives, but also like Arif
said, they've been stung manytimes with having successful
seasons in either game bounceearly in the playoffs or losing
and, you know, spectacularfashion.
And so, know, I.
Whatever in a reef, you know,we've had that conversation with
the reef probably off cameratoo, whether it's worse to be

(54:59):
that type of fan where you'vehad everything and it's given
away or for us lions fans nothaving anything you know, and,
and we're just grateful for theseason that we're having.
So, and they could talk trashall they want, but.
Now, Jared Goff said this right,this is a big boy game and the
big boys are going to come outand if you know, I got Sam
Darnold on one hand and I gotJared Goff on the other, I'm

(55:23):
going to take Jared Goff rightnow and in a big money situation
and, you know, plus not tomention that we're at home and
Sam Darnold's going to have todeal with some hostility and,
you know, the crowd is going tocause them to use a timeout,
false start, you know, getbehind the sticks.
Those type of things will happenin this game.
I have confidence in that.

Jacob (55:45):
That's actually leading to my next key to victory really
is just getting to Darnold.
If you look statistically, whenhe's pressured, he actually it
looks like he performs prettywell under pressure, but most of
that pressure comes when it'sfour or five.
So if we're able to utilizebranch and if he.
I mean, if you're AG, you've gotto get pressure on him, but it's
got to be unorthodox.

(56:05):
You have to send someone fromthe outside where Darnold's not
going to read where it's comingfrom.
And that's when he's going tostart forcing throws.
That's when he's going to startmaking mistakes.
Darnold's definitely going totry to take some deep shots in
this game.
They're going to try to set somethings up.
I just think if we get to himand don't allow him time to get
through those progressions andfind, you know, Justin Jefferson

(56:27):
four seconds after the snap, Imean, it's going to be hard for
their offense to move the ball.

Yeah, I don't, Sam Darnold is going to make a
mistake on his own, whether wecause it through pressure or
not, I just have a feeling.
And I think it's going to be,like you said, we need to scheme
it up.
We need to confuse them.
And kind of like how we did withBrock Purdy, sending a blitz and
not sending the keys, you know,they.
On the branch blitz, there wasno keys indicator.

(56:54):
We need to do something likethat.
You know, let Kirby go and makea play.
Branch made a huge play in thefirst game.
We need one of those safetiesto, to step up.
We, we're going to need to steala possession here too.
And that's my key to victory.
Steal a possession here too,somehow, some way.
Unorthodox trick play, turnoveryou know, we talked about this

(57:15):
in the other episode withMorgan.
need at some point, just themanual, how many stops do we
need to generate?
Cause our offense is going tojust be efficient and score.
So we just need to just steal apossession or two and stop them
from scoring.
And so that we could just takeit, take it to the house.

Jacob (57:33):
Absolutely.

Yeah, I You know, much like for our offense that
we need to stay ahead of thesix.
We need to stop the run.
The 49ers in the last game wereable to run on us a little bit.
And I don't want to put asituation where Sam Darnold has
a second and three or third andthree, and we don't know what
they're going to do.
Cause it's really hard to defendin that.
You're not going to be able tosend, going to be harder to send

(57:57):
the blitz.
And I'd rather, much ratherhave, you know, third and long
and, and go from there.

Jacob (58:06):
Yeah, I mean, they, they had moderate success.
I would say last week you know,just a couple plays broke out
here and there.
And then even, even the 49ersreally just completely abandoned
the run and just went pastfirst.
If you look at the last game,when we played the Vikings, it
was like maybe the third play ofthe game when Aaron Jones had
that 34 yard rushing touchdown.

(58:27):
And you know, that was a decentperformance from Aaron Jones.
I just don't, obviously thedefense looks a lot different
now, but I think this is goingto be one through the air.
I think there's going to be apassing contest back and forth.

I agree, but like Gibbs over Jones and I like golf
over Darnold.
I, and I know

Jacob (58:48):
Yes.

some Homer in there, but the stats prove it.
And, and I like being at homewith that.
So it's going to be a

Jacob (58:58):
I saw.

battle.
It's going to be a very tightbattle, but I think I like our
advantages.
Yeah.

Jacob (59:04):
Yes, absolutely.
I saw a funny graphic thoughthat it was like It showed Lamar
Jackson, Josh Allen, and thenSam Darnold.
And it was like, who's like thefrontrunner for MVP?
It was like, why is Sam Darnoldin this graphic?
I mean, any stat that you pullup there, Jared Goff, is better
statistically.
Same amount of wins.

(59:24):
Statistic, like all the stats.
I mean, they are pretty close.
I'll give up Matt, but Jared gotsome better in each one and golf
didn't make the graphic.
So that's weird.
I don't understand where that'scoming from, but yeah.
We just better quarterback,better running back.

the five interception game is a blemish
on the record.
Even though we won the game, it

Jacob (59:44):
Right.

Take that out in his interception numbers.
Touchdown interception ratio wasway

Jacob (59:49):
Ridiculous.
Yeah, right.
Right.

You know.
Sam Darnold's I will give SamDarnold's had a good year.
When I looked at all thebreakdowns between the blitz,
the non blitz pressure versusnon pressure, there isn't a
consistent, he he's been verygood in all those categories.
Kevin O'Connell has set him upand to make a lot of money next
year.
And he better thank his starsabout that.

(01:00:13):
And I, I, it's going to be agreat game.
It's going to be one through theair, like you said, but

Jacob (01:00:20):
And then that makes it, you know, where it lives and
dies with Sam Darnold, becausethey have games where, you know,
he doesn't play very well.
And.
They beat the Jaguars seven or12 to seven, or they beat the
bears 30 to 27 in overtime.
You know, if Donald doesn't havea good game, it seems like the
offense Sputters, there's not,you know, the most convincing

(01:00:40):
win they had was against theFalcons, and that was the game
where Donald threw fivetouchdown passes.
So, I mean, that's really thenumber one key right there is if
you take him out and you shuthim down the offense, which I
mean is true of most offenses,you shut down the passing game
and then it's hard to do much.

Jason Harwood (01:00:57):
hmm.

Jacob (01:00:57):
I just don't think Aaron Jones is as dynamic as Gibbs is
and doesn't have you, you know,they don't have the line that we
do either, although they areplaying well, and, you know,
this is definitely one of thosegames where I think if you put
these teams together, you know,with injuries and everything
that we have, you put theseteams together and we play 10
times, it's probably prettyclose to a five and five split

(01:01:18):
as who's going to win

Yeah, as of right now, if we were

Jacob (01:01:21):
as of right now.
Yes.

were fully stocked in the Hutch, I mean,
you had just add Hutch back, youknow, let's not even

Jacob (01:01:28):
Yeah,

you

Jacob (01:01:29):
right, right.

We leave, leave Hutch.
So let's talk a little bit aboutthat.
You know, there are, you know,defensively, you know, we've
lost, you know, McNeil was inthe last matchup You know, but
we did, Zeitler was out of thelast matchup offensively the
last time.
So that is going to be huge tohave him back as I will.
Sika was in there.
He, you talk about beingconsistent on the offense.

(01:01:51):
He killed the first two drivesof the holding penalty and a
false start.
And that's one of the reasonsthose, those stuttered at the
beginning.
So getting Zyler back is goingto be huge.
On the Viking side, they, youknow, didn't have TJ Hawkinson
didn't have one of theiroffensive weapons back and, you
know, be interesting.
What the response with Kirby,cause Kirby is, you know,

Jacob (01:02:14):
Yeah, right.

and caused them to be out that.
So that's another weapon thatthey, that we didn't have to
worry about the last time.
so that'll be interesting to seehow that breaks down too.
And one other thing that Iwanted to keep an eye on JMO is
only 33 yards shy of 1000.
Be shocked if he doesn't get itin this game.
He might even get it on oneplay.

(01:02:36):
So that would be that would beawesome.
That'd

Jacob (01:02:38):
Well, regardless, we've already, you know, lions are the
first team in NFL history tohave two running backs and two
wide receivers.
Each hit 1000 scrimmage yards.
That's putting his running, hisrushing and receiving yards
together.
But yeah, to have 1000 receivingyards is a huge accomplishment

Mhmm.

Jacob (01:02:55):
and you know, it's just, it's good for him.
We talked about that allpreseason that he just looked
different.
He looked like he was puttingthings together.
It looked like he was going tohave a big year and he has yeah.

Yeah, he has I think beyond just getting the
yards and everything like that,he's been a consistent threat
and just the trust with golf isshowing in it and it showed in
the 49ers game with the routerunning.
They, I think Troy Aikman said,you know, even pointed it out,
like his.
You know, he's doing things nowthat he's hasn't been able to do

(01:03:25):
in the past with, you know,just, he's not just a deep
threat.
He can run in routes.
He can run over the middle.
He can do a lot of things.
Morgan and I, we talked aboutit, you know, and earlier about
about how dangerous he's becomeand it's going to be an awesome,
it's an awesome threat to have,and I don't know if it's going
to pay, if he's going to have adeep shot in this game, I don't

(01:03:48):
know, but just the threat of itis going to open up else to
have, you know, to catch theball Laporta.
I'm expecting to have anotherbig game in this one.

Jacob (01:03:58):
Yes, I mean, especially as of late, we've been getting
Jamal the ball, where earlier inthe season it was like, you
know, wasn't a guarantee hemight have a big play here or
there, he had a couple gameswhere he only had one or two
catches or targets even, so,it's nice that we've been able
to feed him the ball moreconsistently.

I agree.
So big game, super excited aboutit.
Yeah, I, I know we've said it abit, a billion times, but man,
I, I am, I wish I could wake uptomorrow and I'd be going the
game.
So are you going to be, you'regoing to be watching it at home,
right?
Jacob.

Jacob (01:04:32):
I'll be watching at home, intently.

So are you going to let Milo stay up?
I know Milo has been watchingthe Lions games with

Jacob (01:04:38):
Yeah, I'm gonna leave that up to Milo.
He actually stayed up, so, itwas, Monday was my birthday, so
we had a, you know, day of funanyway, and then he stayed up
and watched the Lions and 49ersgame with me.
So that was fun.
He was definitely into it.
I told him, you know, youprobably need to go to bed, bud,
and he was only in his room fora half hour or so before he came
back out.

(01:04:59):
I was like, you know what, fine,sit here, watch the game with
me.
It's fun having somebody watchthe game and root for the same
team, because JJ likes to trashon them.

Yeah, we at our house for the Monday night game,
we had we had, my son had threefriends over and they were
downstairs.
So there was, there was therewas five boys down there
watching and their stream wasslightly ahead of ours.
And so we, we knew when a bigplay was coming, cause they were
going crazy.
And when Kirby got, I think itwas the second interception, I

(01:05:30):
knew from their reaction, howloud it was that they got a
turnover.
I, I,

Jacob (01:05:35):
Yeah.

Equated to like watching a baseball game, but
you're not paying attention.
You only hear the crowd and youknow, a, large play just
happened based

Jacob (01:05:45):
Right.

noise.
And that's the way I knew Icould hear down there.
I was like, that has to be aturnover.
That's not just an incompletion.
They, they, they picked the balland sure enough, Kirby picked
that ball.
So, yeah, this is going to be anamazing night.
We're blessed as Lions fans tobe able to have this
opportunity.
I mean, we can look at it aslike we're 14 wins and we don't
have our division locked up.

(01:06:06):
I told my son, you're scared ofthis team right now, then how
are you going to do in theplayoffs?
This is what you want.
This is essentially the firstweek of the playoffs.
I know that we're not eliminatedif we're out, but you got to
beat the bet to be the best.
You got to beat the best.
So, and I don't dig Campbellsaying those words to his team
right now.
They love this matchup.
They love what they, theopportunity they have.

(01:06:28):
I love that it's in Detroit.
that we have the home crowd.
I think it's going to pay.

Jacob (01:06:33):
Yeah.

for, for this team.

Jacob (01:06:35):
Right.
That'd be a huge differencemaker for us.

It will.
All right, Jacob, let's get onwith the grit picks.
Jacob, got the better of me thisweek.
So I'm gonna let you do therundown here.

Jacob (01:06:50):
This week.
I think it's a better of youalmost every week, right?

do, you do.

Jacob (01:06:54):
All right.
Seahawks at Bears.
I picked the Seahawks.
You pick the Bears.
This was funny because as wewere recording as when that game
was happening and we weretalking about how much of you
know, bad game that it had been.
It was only six to three at thatpoint.
It didn't get any better.
You know, that's that was theresult.
The Bears, you know, did notutilize their timeouts blew it

(01:07:15):
there again at the end of thegame.
Awful football then you hadpicked them to win.
So, you know, I don't know whatyou were thinking.
Moving on Saturday night,Arizona at Rams.
We both picked the Rams.
We were right there.
And then Falcons at Commanders.
I picked the Commanders and youpicked the Falcons.

It's an

Jacob (01:07:36):
So I'm 32 and 14 and you are 27 and 19.

Yeah, you're going to beat me this year.
There's no way I can come back.
So in so congratulationsinaugural

Jacob (01:07:48):
you.

got me so week 18, not much to pick this, this
week.
So the first game that we'regoing to pick is the Saturday
night game bangles at Steelers.
I'm going to go with theSteelers in this one.
Bangles are going to fold.
Who are you taking?

Jacob (01:08:04):
Yeah.
This one's interesting becausethe, the Ravens play earlier
that same day, if the Ravenslose, then the Steelers are
playing for that division.
But if the Ravens win, then theSteelers they've already locked
their playoff spot up at theRavens win, then they don't
really have anything to go for.

Yep.

Jacob (01:08:19):
So they find themselves in a unique position too,
because, you know, They'repreparing to play as if they're
playing for the division, and ifthey're not, do they bench
anybody?
Do they play the game anydifferent?
You know, whereas the Bengals,they have to win to keep their
hopes alive.
And, you know, they're gonna bebringing it no matter what.
The Steelers came out on top thelast time they played, so I

(01:08:39):
think the Bengals are gonna takethis one.

We're different there.
So based on how the season'sgone, you can put your money on
the Bengals.
All right.
So we don't pick the winner ofthe Detroit or the night
football game because itinvolves Detroit.
But to switch it up, we aregoing to pick an over under on
something.
refed, And the interview saidthat there's going to be a lot

(01:09:03):
of turnovers in this game.
So we are going to go over orunder two and a half turnovers.
That's combined between the twoteams, Jacob, or you take it
over or under two and a halfturnovers.

Jacob (01:09:14):
I'm actually gonna take the under on this one.
The stakes are much higher.
I think they're gonna have totry to play cleaner football.
You know, I hope that if it'sthe over, it's because Sam
Darnold absolutely blew it andthey just can't get it together.
Yeah, I mean, Goffman playingreally well, I don't see them
putting the ball in harm's waynecessarily as much as the Reef
did.

(01:09:34):
But, I'm gonna go under.
How do you feel about that?

I'm going to stay with you.
I'm going to go under two underthe two and a half.
So I think there's going to betwo and I'm hoping they're both
on Minnesota side.
But I, it's going to, that'sgoing to be the difference
makers at turnovers.
And if,

Jacob (01:09:50):
Absolutely.

I'm hoping if it's high, I'm hoping it's, it's
equal or shades more towards thelions favor.
All right, Jacob.
It's time for a great guarantee.
I'll let you go first.
It's

Jacob (01:10:08):
Yeah, my guarantee is a simple one this week.
5, and I'm gonna guarantee thatwe go over on that.

probably a pretty safe bet based on how the Lions
defense has played lately.
And we seem to always put 30plus on, on Brian Flores over
there at the Vikings.
So, yeah, it's pretty good.
What do you think what's, whatif I said the over under was 63
and a half, would you, go overunder that,

Jacob (01:10:39):
You know, with how we've been playing and how
everything's going, I think Iwould still say over.

over,

Jacob (01:10:44):
stakes are higher, this is, you know, it's funny because
like, how we said with thebills, like the stakes are
higher, you hope the defenseshows out a little more on both
sides and then it's gonna belike a hard fought, and instead
it was just shot after shotafter shot, the offenses weren't
slowing down.
So, I think it would look morelike that game.
So I would still say over.

Okay.
All right.
Good.
Mine is going to be an Amin Rahas 10 plus catches in this
game.

Jacob (01:11:10):
Okay.

is what I'm going to go with.
In big games, you go to yourmoney player, Amin Ra is the
guy.
And I think especially if theysent Blitz, they're going to
have some hot routes set up forAmin Ra it's, It's going to be
important to stay ahead of thesticks and Amun Ra is going to
be the guy.

(01:11:31):
So

Jacob (01:11:32):
He said 10 plus catches or targets.

10 plus catches.
I think he's going to have 10plus.
So,

Jacob (01:11:37):
It's just typically when he catches more than 10 passes,
it's because we are not doing sowell.

yeah, I think it's going to be the opposite
this

Jacob (01:11:44):
Yeah,

yeah, I think they're going to, they're going
to target Amun Ra.
So

Jacob (01:11:49):
I hope you're right.

our third down guy.
And yeah, I, I have a feelingAmun Ra is going to

Jacob (01:11:54):
Amun Ra has a pretty good history against the Vikings, so
I can see that.

and that's why I kind of went that way.
So, well, Jacob, I mean,hopefully Monday when we're
recording next, we're very, veryhappy.
And then we can go through apossible.
scenarios of who we're going toplay, if not, going to talk,
we're going to know who we'regoing to play the following

(01:12:18):
weekend and we'll get

Jacob (01:12:20):
And we'll be ready.

Yeah, we'll be ready either way.
So, all right, Jacob, I hope youfeel better.
I know you're not feeling reallywell.

Jacob (01:12:27):
Appreciate that.

yeah.
So, all right.
For Jacob, I'm Jason, let's golions.

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