E57: "Biting Re-Caps" - What Stage of Grief are you in? Detroit Lions vs Washington Commanders - Talking Grit: A Detroit Lions Podcast

Episode Transcript
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Jason Harwood (00:41):
back to Talking Grit.
I'm Jason Harwood and with me isJacob Lytton.
This one is tough to swallow.
Lions lose 31 to thosecommanders.
The off season has begun.
There are five stages of grief,Jacob.
Denial, anger, bargaining,depression, and acceptance.

(01:01):
What stage of grief are you inright now?

Jacob (01:04):
I just got them all over with already this morning.
So, yeah.
Cycled through pretty quick

Yeah.

Jacob (01:11):
as lions fans.
So you really, does it take youmultiple days to go through all
five stages?

no.

Jacob (01:17):
Are you stuck?

I think I'm still in like depression for sure.
I went through denial real fast.
Like that was just happeningduring the game.
I didn't have too much

Jacob (01:29):
I went through denial in like the third quarter and then,

yeah.
There was no bargaining withanybody.
I mean, who are you going tobargain with?
So yesterday I, during the day,my boss.
Texting me, our boss texted meand said, I got the flu.
I'm going to need you to worktomorrow.
Well, tomorrow, but that endedup being today on Sunday when
we're recording this.
So I was already thinking, Ohman, that's going to suck.

(01:55):
I'm going to come home from thisgame.
I was hoping I'd be wired from awin.
Unfortunately it was quite theopposite.
I was depressed from a loss,thoughts were just running
through my head last night.
It was hard for me to really.
I hadn't reached acceptance yet,and I don't know if I still
have.
So I was just, what went wrong?
How are we gonna, how are wegonna move forward and all that
stuff?

(02:15):
And then I had to work today anddidn't have you to talk to or
any sports people to talk to,and maybe that was a good thing.
I just left it in my head, butit definitely kept me in the
depressions.
I think for me that I talkingwith you today, right now, we'll
hit some acceptance at somelevel that, come to, as the

(02:36):
season off season goes on, we'regoing to have this podcast,
we're going to have this Avenue,we're going to be able to talk
through these things.
One thing that I've learned is Iused to wallow in a loss and not
want to look at football.
Even I had trouble watching someof the games today, just cause.
hard for, to really enjoy that.
I don't know how you felt aboutthat.

(02:57):
But I have been with thispodcast and then, we're going to
be on Dev and Steve's podcasttomorrow.
That's.
Help us move on to acceptanceand just move on and talk about
the off season.
We have some bright stuff thatwe're going to talk about.
There's a lot of talking pointsthat we're going to have this
off season.
So that'll be fun.
Yeah.
So do you think you're going tohit acceptance when Deb gives

(03:19):
you crap tomorrow, talking withthem?

Jacob (03:22):
Possibly, I don't know, it might make me angry again.
No.
You were at work all day and Iwas at home, so I got to see the
press conferences over and overagain and the highlight videos
and all the memes that peopleprobably already had made just
hoping for us to lose.
Hearing Packers and Vikings fanstalk crap, although they do not
have a place to at all, becausewe are still, we still won the

(03:45):
North.
We still got the first, the buy.
Course in the end, it doesn'treally matter, but it's funny
that they feel like they cantalk trash already.
As if they didn't also getbounced, last week.

Right.
It's exactly right that we got aYouTube, I don't know if you saw
the YouTube comment on one ofour videos from a Packers fan
and he just, laid into us andsaid, Oh, you've, it was a Dan
Skipper, like, flop.
Penalty with Quay Walker.

Jacob (04:12):
Yeah.

the lions just flopped something to that.
I paraphrase it, but he said,the lions just flopped like Dan
Skipper in this play and how areyou guys going to do anything
when you lose all your coaches?
And it was just went on and on.
And I was like, man, thesePackers are, had it so good for
so long and they finally can,dig on someone else misery.

(04:35):
But.
Whatever you gotta do.
Fans got a fan and that's okay.
I've dug into Packers andVikings before and bears and
it's part of the game.
That's the way it's the way it'splayed, but yeah, right.
They have no place to talk.
It'd be like a bears fan talkingjunk.
He didn't make the, didn't makethe playoffs, won five games,
Packers Vikings, both bounced inthe first round and really non

(04:59):
competitive games for the mostpart.
So, it is what it is.
At least we made it to thedivisional round.

Jacob (05:06):
I mean, it's the same for 31 teams, every off season,
right?
And only one team wins it all.
And then you go to those other31, one team will be able to say
they made the super bowl.
You got a couple of teamsthat'll say they made it to the
NFC championship.
And then a couple of them in thedivisional.
What you're worried aboutobviously is the super bowl.
So for 31 teams, it doesn'tmatter.
You didn't win at least, we canlook back that we won the NFC

(05:28):
North back to back.
Let's just bottom line.
This is not the way that any ofus wanted the best season and
lions super bowl era history toend.
But, still a lot to be proud of,it's just gonna take a few weeks
before we're able to look at allthe positives.

Yeah, I agree.
I mean, I think there's a lot tobe proud of.
And I think at the end, we'regoing to wrap up some stuff, got
some questions.
So maybe this is the better partin there, but, better part to
talk about it is in there.
Yeah, there's plenty to lookforward to next year.
This was not our window is stillopen, so we can talk about that
later on.
Any overall thoughts in thegame?

(06:07):
First of all were you justwatching it at home or Milo or
what'd you end up doing?

Jacob (06:13):
I was, so, it got off to a terrible start already because
I, we watched the first game.
So, Chiefs Texans, that's fine,we watch it.
And then, we shut it off, getmaybe like 15 minutes before
kickoff.
It's like, okay, we're gonnaturn the game on.
I can't access my NFL account.
And I already told you I had myTwitter hacked.

(06:35):
I lost my Twitter account likelast week or whatever.
I still haven't gotten around todoing that, but can't get into
my NFL account.
So then I tried going to the Foxwebsite and just trying to get
into the Fox account, can't getinto the Fox account.
I ended up missing the firstdrive when we went three and
out.
I didn't even see the firstdrive.
So I'm already panicking.
Like, okay, I need to, well, butI'm like, I need to get this on

(06:55):
right now.
And Yeah, finally got it on theTV, got all that worked out.
Milo was out here with me, JJactually stayed out and watched
the game.
Until the fourth quarter, I madeJJ go back in his room.
He doesn't usually watch thegames out here, and he was
sitting out here with me.
I was like, you are providingsome bad juju or something, so I
need you to go to your room.

(07:17):
He thought I was kidding, I wasdead serious, I was like, no,
I'm not playing.
Go to your room.
Milo fell asleep in the middleof the fourth quarter, so he
didn't really have to experiencethis.
The heartbreak there at the end.
How is it for you?
I mean, you're there.
You can't you can't fall asleep.
Your kids can't turn somethingelse on or go to the other room.

Yeah, I could not send my kids to the room.
No, I Bradley was in tears formuch of the game.
A lot of the game he goes rightinto sadness when commanders
and.
I've, so I've struggled with howto react to that.
As a dad, you don't like seeingyour kid cry.

(07:58):
It's hard.
You've been there, I'm sure.
And you could play the partwhere you're tough and you say,
why are you crying?
It's just a game.
I've learned to just accept itand say, this is how, he's 10.
This is how he's processing itright now.
My wife has a really tough timestruggling with it as well.
And she says it kind of makesher not want to go to some games

(08:21):
because she, it's hard to seehim upset, but her and I talked
about it last night.
And I said, this is a big partof sports, right?
Accepting a loss, learning howto be a good loser, all those
types of things.
And we all process that stuffdifferently.
I would say when I was younger,mine went right to anger
throwing things or, some, that'sthat's just how I process things

(08:45):
and it wasn't a big deal.
Sarah's yelled at me before forthat.
And then later on, apologize.
Cause she was just as bad andwas getting out of her anger by
yelling at me.
So it was hard not being able toescape it at all.
And to see him like that.
So Bradley spent much of thegrim fourth quarter watching
YouTube on the phone.

(09:05):
And so he did, couldn't,

Jacob (09:06):
Yeah.

Like that was his equivalent of going to his room
and getting out of it.
Preston handled it prettyawesome, actually.
I was pretty surprised.
He, joked before that he'll ask,are we going to lose?
Or, are we going to win thisdad?
And, that's.
His, when he's has anxiety,that's how he gets it out.
In the middle of the fourthquarter, I looked at him and I

(09:29):
said, nobody, I don't it's notin the cards today.
I still had held hope for awhile and I still did.
I mean, there's still a chanceit's not over till it's over,
but, just being realistic andnot, sugarcoating everything.
I was like, so he handled itpretty well.
He did break down in some tearswhen we got home and got into
bed.
I texted him today on, I was atwork, I asked how you doing, he

(09:51):
goes, I'm still sad, but, I've,I'm watching the other games and
I'm enjoying it.
So that was good.
I mean, it sucks.
And the crowd was just, theywere very loud at the beginning,
especially when we stopped themon that fourth down on the first
series, it looked good.
There was moments throughout thegame, but we just, our defense

(10:13):
just never did well enough toget the crowd, to keep the crowd
in it long enough.
And then our offense would.
Have a turnover and deflate thecrowd even further.
So crowd atmosphere was kind ofup, Up and down, but it's to be
expected.
And it was still good.
I mean, it's still loud inthere.
I was still proud of lions fans.

(10:33):
They started in the four.
I don't know if you heard on theTV, but in the fourth quarter,
when it looked like it was overthey started to be some defense
chance pretty loud in thestadium, and that was the first
time I had heard other than theBuffalo fans, I'd heard opposing
fans get any was sort of loud inthat stadium.
So, and it's hard because onoffense, if you're on offense,
you can't, normally you want tocheer to drowned out that.

(10:55):
Or normally if you're in thestands, you want to cheer it
out, drowned out opposing noise,but you don't want to make noise
yourself because your offense ison the field.
So it, it's a, I don't knowreally what to do in that
situation.
So that was a tough, that was atough pill to swallow.

Jacob (11:09):
Yeah, you could hear something on the broadcast, but
I couldn't make out what it was.
And sometimes you can hear ClearAs Day when they're chanting,
like, MVP or Jared Goff orwhatever it may be.
And you couldn't make outsomething.
You could hear something, butcouldn't tell what it was.
And I figured it was probablyCommanders fans.

it was.
They

Jacob (11:24):
I did see a good deal of them, staying after and
everything.
Once they all conglomerate inone area, it looks like there's
way more of them there thanactually were.
So in your opinion, I mean, howmany Were there more Commanders
than there were Vikings fanslast game?
I don't know.

there was more Vikings fans and there was
frankly a lot more Buffalo fans.
Buffalo was, at least, it's hardto tell.
It's hard to tell, but mygeneral basis is like, as I'm
walking to the game, and am Iseeing a lot of opposing fans?
I did not see a lot ofWashington fans when I was

(11:57):
walking to the game.
Before the game, when I textyou, there was a sizable amount
behind the Washington fansBench, but I think they'd all
think that's where their seatswere.

Jacob (12:08):
Right, they all just file, like, in the same.

there, they were pretty easy to notice cause
they, a lot of them had like,their colors don't look anything
like ours, so they're prettyeasy to spot.
They either had the brightyellow or like the maroon
brownish, I don't know, whateveryou call it Jersey.
So they're pretty easy to spotin the crowd, especially when
there's a group of them.
They weren't really loud.
And I didn't really notice themsitting down there a lot.
There was a few behind the benchor whatever.

(12:33):
there was some loud, not in mysection, must be in the section
behind me, because that's wherethe defense chant came from.
So there was probably a, in the300 level, there was probably a
sizable group there, but.
I would say, Buffalo was themost, the Vikings at the last
game, two weeks ago, there was adecent amount of Vikings fans

(12:53):
there, probably because of thewhole, them buying 2 million
worth of tickets, probably hadsomething to do with that.
But yeah, it was tough.
And then I saw a lot of themafterwards and they were
hugging.
I saw some people, some of thecommander's fans gloating, but
you know, they deserve that theywon the game and it wasn't
terribly close either.

Jacob (13:13):
I mean, it was kind of, that's where we were at last
year.
We made the NFC championship forthe first time in so long and,
they're kind of repeating thatthis year.
They're having their ownsuccess.
So, I can't be too mad at thecommanders.
It's not like, I would have feltmuch worse if this loss was
against like the Rams.
There's certain teams where it'slike, okay, I really can't stand
them.
It would have been hard.
I mean, it's only been one day,so we don't have a whole lot of

(13:35):
time to reflect.
But just as of right now, do youthink this loss was worse than
the 49ers loss last year or now?

That's funny that you asked me that because my
wife asked me the same questionlast night.
I think what's worse about, bothterrible, what's worse about
this one is the expectationswere and almost felt like, us
being favored by 10 and thenlosing by two touchdowns.
I mean, that hurts.

(14:02):
Just because of the expectationsare higher, the 49ers game, I
still think hurts more to mebecause of us being up by 17 and
being one step close.
I mean, we were a step closer.
The difference is, it's allabout expectations.
Last year felt like we wereplaying with house money, what
the commanders are, what we saidto

Jacob (14:23):
Right, right.

house money where you're kind of already exceeded
expectations.
Or is this we did not, at leastas far as the beginning of the
season and really I expectedthis to go.
I expect us to go all the way,we'd fought through so much
adversity, with injuries andeverything this year, but how
about you?
Where are you at?

(14:44):
What's worse for you?
The 49ers of this.

Jacob (14:47):
Last year I think was much worse than this one was, I
always, I guess I kind of alwayshad my guard up.
The thing was, we beat theVikings pretty, convincingly to
win the division, but then theVikings came out and kind of
really did not look like a goodteam against the Rams either.
So then I started thinking, isthe defense really, Have we

(15:08):
really hit that next level?
Are we really going to be ableto stop, because the commanders
are one of the hottest offenses.
It's like, that's what it'sgoing to come down to.
We, we were not able to stopthem.
And then the offense really didnot help out with the turnovers
and everything either.
It was just the perfect storm.
I mean, I told JJ and I talkedto him about it before.
JJ is kind of a hater about theLions anyway, but you know.

(15:29):
You list all the players thathave been hurt, all the injuries
that we've had to overcome andeverything like that, and we
knew, we talked about on heretoo, there's going to be games
where if the defense just can'tquite stop them, we're going to
have to outscore the other team.
Like, that's going to be ouravenue of winning, and you're
not going to outscore themturning the ball over five
times.
I mean, the fact that it was asclose as it was when you see

(15:51):
that five turnover thing is kindof crazy.
But the offense was moving theball pretty easily, in the first
half, we'll get into it here.
But, I just don't, I mean, Ijust can't right now.
Think that it's worse than itwas last year.
In my opinion, I think last yearfelt much worse.
That was more devastating.

(16:13):
And you're right.
It probably is because of thehouse money thing.
And the fact that we were up, itfelt like, the Super Bowl was
right there.
We, was within reach and then itjust got yanked away from us.
And this time it was, theexpectations were much higher,
but, it wasn't ever a surething.
It wasn't right there.
So,

I think until we get over that hump and get into
the Super Bowl, I think that49ers one is going to be because
we were so close.

Jacob (16:37):
correct.

and I think outside of us not making the
playoffs or just looking likecrap, um, the overall season, I
don't know.
I feeling this off season isgoing to be different than it
was last year, especially ifwe'll talk about losing our
coaches a little bit later on.
So this off season is going tobe a, there's going to be a lot

(16:58):
more talking points.
I feel like going into this offseason than there were last off
season.
Cause last off season just feellike, Hey, it's back to work and
we're, going to, we have somenotable free agents coming up, a
lot of stuff to talk about thisoff season.
So, you're listening to this,pay attention for the rest of
the off season.
Cause we've got plenty of thingsto talk to, but I also just the
fan outrage and just we talkedabout the Packers and the

(17:21):
Vikings and central or theNorth, just central that's how
long I've been Alliance

Jacob (17:27):
Central, old man,

Yeah, exactly.
Well, what was I doing?
Why did we have to delay

Jacob (17:34):
yeah, right.
We were like an hour lategetting on here because Jason
had to take a nap today.

I did.
Hey, my, my defense.
I got home at two, got up atlike 630 to work and I worked
eight hours.
So, I didn't get to sit

Jacob (17:49):
Boohoo.

football all day.
So then I did have to take anap.
So I'd be sort of awake for thispodcast.
For you to take your verbalassaults,

Jacob (17:58):
Yeah,

but yeah, let's move on here.
Let's talk about this

Jacob (18:03):
let's yeah, let's break it down.

And so let's talk about special teams first,
Jacob.
you want to open up with JakeBates and Jack Fox that's there.

Jacob (18:14):
Yeah, special teams, I mean, special teams were on, as
always.
Jake Bates went at 4 for 4 onextra points.
1 for 1 on field goals.
He had that 28 yarder towardsthe end of the game there.
Jack Fox only had to punt onetime for 43 yards.
Not much to talk about withspecial teams here.
They did their jobs as expected.

I thought the commander's kickoff team was
very good.
They pinned us, we didn't get tothe 30 yard line very much.
the only outside of that firstone where he kicked it out of
bounds and then we got at the 40and that started the game off,
man.
We had, I was feeling greatright off the bat.
We got at the 40.
We're going to, we're going togo down and score three plays.
And we punt the aforementionedJack Fox punt was on the first

(18:54):
drive of the game.
so yeah, it started out Rockyright away.
I didn't like, I was like, Oh,we got the ball first.
You and I talked like if you winthe coin toss, was surprised
that the commanders didn't takethe ball first.
I thought that they'd want toget on the board early.
we got the ball and I was like,Oh, we're going to go up seven.

(19:15):
Nothing right away.
Let's just do this.
And wasn't to be all right,Jacob, let's talk about this
defense.
So many things to talk about inthis defense.
So where do you want to start?

Jacob (19:29):
I mean, we got to start with the rookie quarterback, how
he did Jaden Daniels, 299 yards,two touchdowns, 51 rushing yards
pro football focus greater thanwas zero turnover where the
plays.
So he played just about.
As well as any quarterback couldplay as a rookie in Ford field,
just absolutely lights outincredible performance by him.

(19:53):
So, good job for him.
I mean, he basically is the mainreason that the team was able to
turn around.
And the reason I've had so muchsuccess, we were hoping that,
we'd try to get some pressure onhim and try to rattle them a
little bit.
If, we did talk about if thatcould even be done and we didn't
really get in his face enough toreally find out if it could be
done.
So I guess the jury's still outon that one.
We don't know.

(20:14):
But he, did not face enoughpressure.
The crowd really didn't get tothem that much.
It didn't really affect his playat all.

Yeah.
12 quarterback pressures.
I know Brian branch got, in, ona blitz a couple of times forced
him out of the pocket, but hewas able to either escape and
scramble or.
Do what he does.
He was throwing down field.
We were playing very good backend defense.
It was a tough pill to swallow,man.

(20:42):
This whole thing,

Jacob (20:43):
I mean, beyond just Jane Daniels, though, the Brian
Robinson, 77 rushing yards andtwo touchdowns, Eckler, 47 yards
on six carries.
And then even Jeremy McNichols,their third running back, he
punched in a one yard touchdownthere in the fourth quarter.
So we've really been able torely on the run defense, to take
that away and make them onedimensional and make them throw.

(21:03):
And they were able to havesuccess moving the ball in the
running game too.
And that, that really hurt us.
The only game we allowed thismany rushing yards outside of
this was the bills, which wasanother high scoring game.
And we lost that one too.

Yeah, this, this is where the game was law.
I mean, other than the turnoverson offense, but on defense, this
is where the game was lost tome.
I know they had some big playsover the top or whatever it was.
We could never get them behindthe sticks.
We, they kept.
on first down, they were gettinghuge runs on first down, getting
a second and short, and thenyou're stuck.

(21:39):
It was especially with JadenDaniels.
I thought that actually, wehandled Jaden Daniels running
fairly well, to be honest withyou.
He only, it was 16 carries for51 yards, 3.
2 yards per carry.
I thought that we actually didan acceptable job him.
It's just, Like you said, Eckleraveraged almost eight yards per
carry Robinson for whateverreason.

(22:02):
The commander's boys did notlike him at all, but of course
he came on and, 77 yards,average five yards of carry.
We, if we could have stoppedthem and that's been our
hallmark on this is stoppingthem on a first down run and
then making it second and long,we just couldn't do that
consistently.
And it really killed us.

Jacob (22:22):
Right, I have to mention obviously, I hate using the
injuries as an excuse when we'vebeen playing so well and we've
been winning despite all theinjuries and everything we
talked about.
You have to play with the handthat you're dealt.
This is what we have going intoit.
But I was really worried.
I don't know if you were asmuch, but I was really worried.
Extremely concerned when a meekwent down.

(22:44):
That was we were really countingon him to be out there.
Cover McLaren at least, It'sjust another guy that gives
everything that he has everysingle play and he played so
well last week.
It was just really deflating forhim to get hurt on the second
play of the game.
And I think I texted you, I knewright away, like, yeah, this is
bad.
It does not look good at all.
I don't know if you could tellfrom the replays or if you guys

(23:04):
knew in the stands, but

Well, the way he was laying and I knew when the
players come over, you could,you just get the gist when the
players come over, they knowit's a big deal.
And then, they, he just walked,I don't know what they showed on
TV, but he just walked straight.
Like they didn't bring the carton.
I think that he could have had acart, but they walked from the
injury, which is like on thetotally opposite field of the
tunnel.
Directly to the tunnel.

(23:28):
You, I could see him.
They didn't even go to thesideline.
He went directly to the tunnel.
And then I saw the replayafterwards and, oh God, that was
disgusting.
I, it's either broken or like adislocated elbow.

Jacob (23:40):
I don't know, it's broken.
It's the top, it's the top halfof his arm is broken.
It was kind of the same sort ofplay where Anzalone got hurt.
I think that was Branch thatcame in.

Yeah.

Jacob (23:50):
Anzalone's got the guy wrapped up, Branch comes in,
bang, you just hit the rightpart, and then he broke
Anzalone's forearm.
Which was not as bad as this.
This was Amik had somebody, thiswas Jack Campbell, full force
came in and just, yeah.

Yeah.

Jacob (24:04):
you can see the pictures on X and everything when Amik's
laying there, but it's clearly,you can see how bad the arm is.
It's just horrible.
Terrible.
We could not afford that.

how many broken bones does this team had this
year?
It's sickening.
And a lot of it friendly firetoo.
That's

Jacob (24:22):
Yeah.
Well, but so then he goes down.
I'm really concerned becausethat means Vildor is playing
outside.
And in his plays, Vildor givesup four catches for 136 yards
and a touchdown.
The screen pass to McLaren wascredited to Vildor, which that
play was kind of a perfecttiming.
We blitz branch from that side.
We leave two defensive backs tocover three receivers and Kirby

(24:46):
just had to take an angle on himand he couldn't, he couldn't
catch up.
Couldn't bring him down.
That was kind of just theperfect play call for the
defense that we ran.
But that's also the kind of playthat Amik is really good at.
He's really good at playingthose screens and making those
tackles for a loss.
And, I think it was Vildor andIfy that were out there.
Neither one of them, he ranright up in the middle.
They were blocked, but theydidn't really slow him down

(25:07):
enough.
If he at least makes some bettercontact, then Kirby's gonna
catch up to him.
And he, he took off.
A big play that we couldn'tafford to let happen.

Yeah.
It's.
don't want to see a big, longtouchdown, but it's almost
tougher to swallow when it's ascreen pass and it busts for
like a 70 yard or whatever itwas.
Oh, that was, oh, that sucked.

Jacob (25:30):
Devastating.

It was.

Jacob (25:32):
but, outside of that, you also have Branch miss some snaps
cause he got banged up.
I don't know what happened.
They showed on the Showed on thebroadcast them cutting off like
his I don't even know what youwould call them.
Like the leggings or whateverthe underpants like that he's
got on there, the compression,he had the compression pants on
and they were cutting those off.
I don't know if that was just,had anything to do.
Cause then he gets banged upagain, like after that.

(25:55):
He ends up missing, I don't haveit right in front of me.
I think he missed like eightsnaps or something like that,
but the snaps that he missed,we're going to be probably the
most crucial drive that we hadof this game on defense.
So this was in the end of thethird quarter, early fourth
quarter.
And one second, I got it overhere.

(26:20):
Yes, he goes out and then wehave two plays where branch is
not out there.
And instead we have to haveMaurice Norris.
Who's played one defensive snapbefore this game.
He actually was in, sorry, hewas in because Iffy got hurt.
Maurice Norris came in beforebecause Iffy got hurt.
So he was already out there.
But then, Stantley ThomasOliver, both, they're both in on

(26:42):
this drive, on these plays,because Branch is out too.
So this is the first play of thefourth quarter.
This was when it is 31 to 28 andthis is big time because they've
been moving the ball.
We've got them on third and twofirst play.
I think it was Kirby that kindof blitzed in there.
He gets pressure on JaneDaniels.
He has to throw it to Zach Ertz.

(27:04):
Terran Arnold makes a nice play.
Maurice Norris actually alsoattacked the ball and they make
a nice stop.
And then probably, it's hard tosay the worst thing that
happened in this game, but Iguess probably the worst
coaching mistake, in my opinion,I don't know how you feel about
this, but, they make that stop,it's fourth and two, obviously
they're going for it, everybodyknows they're going to be going
for it.
Trevor Nowacki comes onto thefield, and then nobody comes

(27:26):
off.
And this is actually ironic,because the crowd is so loud
that the lion sideline can'teven get out there.
I'm not entirely sure who wassupposed to come off, but based
on the body language of theother players and everything, it
looks like it was probablyStantley that was supposed to
come off the field.
He's been here for one month.
He's got five special team snapsin one game This is a second

(27:48):
game active and now here he ison fourth down and probably the
biggest drive biggest game ofthe season for sure This I want
to say is a coaching error.
I just you have got to call atimeout there They don't have
everybody out there.
I don't know if you got a chanceto see the replays I know you
were today and everything buteverybody's yelling from the
sideline like they know Shepcan't believe it like he's

(28:09):
they're all screaming out thereNobody knows what's going on.
I don't know how a timeout's notcalled there.

Yep

Jacob (28:16):
How do you feel?
I mean, being there andeverything, did you know what
happened?

I saw no ASCII come in last second and I was
saying no one went off.
So I was like, were they so Ididn't, I'm focused on the play.
I wasn't counting players, butit looked like we were just,
everyone was disheveled then theflags came out and the flags
came out from the secondary andI was like, That's not good.

(28:42):
Cause if it was like a legalmotion or like false start, it
was going to come out frombehind the offense.
This came out behind thedefense.
I was like, it's got to be 12men on the field and that's
exactly what it was.
And yeah, you're right.
I mean, I don't know if we'dhave stopped them anyways, they
were, So good on fourth down inthis game anyways, but you're

(29:02):
right.
Terry on the play before thatwas a really nice play.
And that was one of, if we hadstopped them in this fourth
down, that would have been a keyplay because they both made a
nice play in the box.
Cause when that was complete, Ithought for sure that was a
first down and they stopped themdead in his tracks and got them
down.
I know.
I thought Terry and actuallyplayed a pretty good game.
He had some pretty good.
Defensive snaps.

(29:23):
I haven't seen all, I haven'thad time to watch the video to
look at all back and see some ofthe breakdowns in the secondary
were, but I've been prettyimpressed with Terry on second
half of the season, as far ashis off the ball play, his
ability to attack the ballcarrier.
I see some promise going intonext year, which is good.

(29:44):
Cause we're going to have somequestions in that secondary of,
who's going to bring, if we'regoing to bring CD three back or
worldwide, or if we're justgoing to leave a meek out on the
outside.
Then we'll have to bring insomething for the nickel.
A lot of good stuff to talkabout.

Jacob (29:56):
Right, but I mean, there you have, there's a rookie
cornerback and here you are inthe big situation.
He's got to be our number oneguy.
So you're right.
I thought he played well.
I thought he stepped up.
He played, he's had goodcoverage all year.
I know he didn't end up gettingany interceptions.
He's had some nice past breakupsand he's not gotten beat very
many times where he could say,man, he just wasn't even close.
He, even on the passes that heallows, he's pretty good.

(30:18):
He's nearby.
He's right there.

yeah.

Jacob (30:21):
And I think he's only going to get better next year.

Yeah, it's a matter of him just being able to
play the ball instead of the manand, but it's definitely his
past interference penalties havedecreased mightily from the
first half of the season.
And, just being in position, hewas really sticky at pretty much
the whole year to sticky at thebeginning of the year,
especially in pretty grabby,but.
Those penalties have went away.

(30:44):
So I expect big growth for himthe next season.
So we'll see.
He's going to have to be, causehe might be matched up with
Justin Jefferson next year, orif depending on what we do with
the meek.
So,

Jacob (30:55):
Right.

Yeah, that was tough.
And I looked at the set.
I was surprised that the defenseactually held them.
They stopped them eight out of12 times on third down.
It just felt like in the gamethat we never, maybe they just
never got to third down thatmuch.
And they were just constantlygetting first downs.
It felt

Jacob (31:11):
Well, when you see those 12 third down tries and only 4
conversions, you think, Wow, wewere keeping them down there.
We weren't allowing much.
Yeah.
The stats lie in this one.
That just didn't feel like that.
It doesn't seem right.

then they went three for four and four down and
really four for five.
If you count that penalty on 12men.
So when you add that in, then,those are all driving center.
So then you're above, I thinkwith more teams going forward on
fourth down, with more teamsgoing forward on fourth down
third down stat, it could bevery deceiving because if
they're very good on fourthdown, it's the same thing as

(31:46):
getting it on third down.
You've extended the drive, thewhole point of it.

Jacob (31:53):
And they play like we do.
They play 3rd down with theintention on getting some yards
so that they can go for it on4th down.

and at the time they didn't get it.
I don't know if there was a snapthat went wrong.
It was hard to tell from thestands where they just got
stuff.
They tried to hike it to thetight end or the tight end or

Jacob (32:11):
On the 4th down,

Yeah, the one that they didn't get at the
beginning of

Jacob (32:14):
so that was Marcus Mariota gets the snap.
That's funny because he gets thesnap, he goes to the line, like,
like a quarterback sneak wouldbe.
He turns around immediately, andit looks like he's supposed to
pitch this ball back.
That looks like the play designis that maybe he, runs up for
the sneak, turns around andpitches it to Jaden Daniels.
Cause then Jaden Daniels is alsomoving outside, and that could

(32:36):
have been a nice play, couldhave been, even more trouble for
us early on.
But Bryan Robinson, I guess, wasnot, they weren't on the same
page or something, cause BryanRobinson runs up with the
intention on pushing Mariotalike, you would a regular sneak
or tush push or whatever.
So Mariela turns around andBryan Robinson's right there in
his face, too, and then theyjust get stuffed.
So that was a miscommunicationon their part.

Yeah, it just looked all sorts of funky.
I don't know what happenedthere.
So that's yeah I couldn't tellwho was from the stands.
And like I said, I didn't havemuch time with work today to
watch the

Jacob (33:10):
Yeah, right?

did I want to watch that game back.
That was, I will

Jacob (33:14):
Yeah.

but just not today.
So let's talk about I broke downlike what happened in the
drives.
Just the first half wasterrible.
First half, the first one, weget them down and downs on that
fourth down play.
We just talked, but after thatit was field goal touchdown,
pick six touchdown, and thenthey finished up with a
touchdown and then the secondhalf, we got them with a punt.

(33:39):
At the beginning.
So I was like, all right, we're,this, that could have been the
turning point for the game, butthen it was touchdown.
Then they had a missed fieldgoal and then they ran the clock
out at the end.
I still, I hit, like I said, Ihaven't hit acceptance.
I still can't believe whathappened.
We did lose, they beat us.
There's.
Nothing more I could say aboutthat.
Our defense just could not getthem off the field.

(34:01):
We could not get any pressure onDaniels.
12 quarterback pressures,couldn't rattle them and they
were able to just Constantlyconvert.
And like they did in the redzone, four for four and
touchdowns.
We knew that was going to bebig.
We're going to need to to someof those field goals.
They converted them all totouchdowns.

Jacob (34:22):
Yep, I mean just, like we said, couldn't get pressure on,
couldn't do enough, they wereable to move the ball pretty
easily, and then we did not helpour case on the offensive side
of the ball.

No, we did not.
right.
Anything on the defense that youwant to talk about, or you want
to move over to

Jacob (34:39):
No, let's move over to the offense.

right.
So I just talked about thedefensive drives.
Let's talk about, I'm going tostart out with the offensive
drives.
First half punt.
Touchdown, fumble in the redzone, touchdown, pick six,
touchdown, interception,

Jacob (34:56):
Every other drive, we're just turning it over.

you can't do that.
And the second half it wastouchdown, interception, field
goal, interception.
It's like every other drivewe're giving them a chance.
I

Jacob (35:09):
Yeah, I have a,

game like that earlier this year with Houston,
not going to win again in aplayoff game like that.
Just

Jacob (35:16):
absolutely not.
I've got a just quick breakdownof these five turnovers.
Cause that's really the story ofthe game.
If you don't turn the ball over,if we turn those into points,
then, maybe the over undershould have been at 90 or
whatever, but I mean, then wecould've won, could've went out.
could've went out on top.
The first turnover, we're upseven to three.
We have the momentum at thatpoint.

(35:37):
We drive down the field in fourplays at that point.
It was like, man, they just,they cannot stop us.
Gibbs is going off.
We're doing great.
We have a third and one, andthen we decided to go pass and
turns out that was a mistakegolf.
I don't know if he just didn'tfeel the pressure this time.
He was kind of loose with theball, get sack, drops the ball.
And, we lose the opportunity togo up 14 and three.

(35:59):
And.
If we do go up 14 and 3, maybethat's when, some rookie
mistakes start to happen.
Maybe they changed some playcalls up, thinking, that we
gotta score real quick.
Maybe not, maybe it doesn'treally change, but 14 3 would
have felt really good, and ithurt us not getting any points.
When we were moving the ball sowell.
Second turnover is, they hadjust scored a huge play to Terry

(36:21):
McLaren and it was a 17 14score.
There's plenty of time in thesecond quarter.
Second and 14.
This was just a really bad throwby Goff.
So he tries to chuck it deep, heway overshoots Tim Patrick and
this is the one they return fora touchdown.
So this was the beginning ofwhen you start panicking a
little bit because We alreadyknow we're gonna have trouble
stopping their offense, and wecan't give them points on

(36:43):
defense.
100 percent that was, like,worst case scenario was them
turning it back for a touchdown.
So it's still early, but Youknow, that's concerning at that
point, right?
Third turnover was only fiveminutes from the second
turnover.
So the second turnover happensand it is 17 to 14.
They get to pick six, fiveminutes later, it's 31 to 21

(37:04):
driving again on the cusp of thered zone.
Golf tries another deep shot andit's undercut by saying, we're
still on picked off.
And this one was ugly because westill had a time out left.
There was like 30 seconds left,but we still had time.
I don't know, I guess Goff justfelt like he needed to take a
shot there.
It was one on one coverage, Jamodid have him beat by a step, but

(37:25):
it's underthrown.
Jamo didn't really cut in andtake, make a play on the ball
either.
He was going over top for sure.
But, they end that threat, andthen we end up going in the half
down 31 to 21.
Fourth turnover is the fourthquarter.
We had just had that 12 manthing happen, and they were up
38 to 28.
So if we stop them on fourthdown, it's 31 to 28, and we get

(37:47):
the ball back.
But instead, they score, they'reup by 10.
And, yet again, we're driving,we're making positive plays,
we're moving the ball.
And this is where we try thetrick play, where Jmo passes the
ball to Gibbs.
He's not open.
Jamo has some pressure on him.
Obviously, if you're Ben Johnsonand you make that play call, you
don't want Jamo to throw thatball unless Gibbs is breaking

(38:08):
free and there's nobody around.
Jamo does try to force it.
He's not open.
Nobody got fooled.
I know we've talked about thisbefore, but it's kind of funny
in these situations where thewide receiver running back has
the ball because they don'talways have the, they always
have it in their mind to throwthe ball away, right?
They want to try to make theplay.
They're a little bit nervousback there when there's pressure

(38:28):
on him.
You would have liked for J Mo tothrow it away or maybe try to
run.
You would have even taken theloss there rather than that
pick.
We, it was a really bad playcall in that situation.
We needed to settle in, weneeded to have a good drive and
put any points on the board atthat point.
We just taken the field goaltoo.
We just couldn't afford for thatto happen.
Fifth turnover, the game waspretty much over at that point.

(38:49):
We're still fighting to the end,but get down to the red zone,
Gough gets some pressure, movesaround a little bit, and then
just another bad throw, and thenJeremy Chin of the Commanders
picks it off and seals the win.

Yeah, I, I go back to the first turnover that
fumble in the red zone.
That was a turning point in thegame.
Cause I think we go up 14 tothree, we're feeling pretty good
and we can weather some other,some of the storm that they're
going to have for us on offense.
And I, that hurt.
And then the end of the half.
Interception.

(39:23):
I just don't get, I don't getthe pressure because any points
would have been great rightthere.

Jacob (39:28):
Right.

We would have taken that.
We could have, we stopped him onthe first drive in the second
half.
We could have tied up and thenyou're feeling good because you
got a tie game.
It was very, that was like whypush that there?
I don't, would have taken thepoints for sure.
let's talk about the pick sixgolf, just getting blasted.
Non call, I the replay on thatone and is a vicious hit.

(39:54):
Someone is just coming up andattacking the quarterback, hit
him with the crown of thehelmet.
I don't how now that guy's notthrown out of the game.
If that's Patrick Mahomes out ofthe game, he's thrown out of

Jacob (40:05):
I did see that immediately on Twitter, and
that's right.
I mean, they look out forMahomes, they're not looking out
for Goff or anybody like theydo.
It's hard to make that call whenthere's so much going on in an
interception return.
But it's right in front of wherethe ball carrier is.
They're coming right through.
You got to see golf flyingbackward, and then you get the
announcers on TV or like, yeah,absolutely.
It was unnecessary roughness.

(40:26):
They should have been 15 yardsfrom the spot.
The touchdown shouldn't havecounted, but too little too
late.
And then golf is in concussionprotocol and ends up missing
that next drive.

Yeah.
That was when Jamo took that oneto the house call.
And that was a pretty sweetplay.

Jacob (40:40):
Right.

Yeah it was ridiculous.
And I'm not here saying, Hey,that costs us the game or
whatever, because it certainlydidn't.
It just shows like, if you watcha Chiefs game where they call,
they call roughing the passer ona guy that hits Mahomes almost
as he's throwing the ball,there's two different sets of
rules here for differentquarterbacks.

(41:03):
And that should not be the case.
Just glad that golf was able tocome back in who knows that may
have affected him later onmaking some of the throws that
he made because those were veryuncharacteristic of golf, but it
just shouldn't happen.
They shouldn't have been ableto.
That guy should be kicked out ofthe game.
In my opinion, you're going togo with the crown of the helmet

(41:25):
on the quarterback.
I mean, it is not like golf islike moving a lot.
The guy just comes and ratesends and just play.
It was like old school footballwhere you used to just
interception.
You used to just run and findthe quarterback and just lay the
biggest hit on

Jacob (41:39):
Exactly.
That's what I was just gonna sayis they knew, he knew it was Lou
Vu and he knew it was aquarterback.
He knew what he was doing.
It didn't take much to takeGough out, to apply a block, or
just to make sure that you scorea touchdown.
He went helmet to helmet onpurpose.

Yes, he did.
I mean, it was crowned at thehelmet.
It wasn't like face mask, a facemask, his head was down and he
came running right under golf'schin.
The face mask.
It

Jacob (42:05):
Yes.

hit.
He shouldn't have been, heshould have been kicked out of
the game.
That was Brian branch.
He'd have been kicked out of thegame.
I guarantee it.

Jacob (42:13):
Well, it's funny that they can, use replay assist, or
use upstairs, or do whateverthey gotta do to make that call
on us, but there's no there's noconversation about that from New
York about this.
I don't know if it's becausethey didn't call a flag on the
field.
They couldn't, review it likethat.
I don't know.

Yeah, I don't, I mean, in college, it would have
been targeting.
That would have been targetinghe'd have been kicked out

Jacob (42:36):
right.

there was no targeting in the NFL.
I personally think beyond justthis, I think of the roughing
the passer penalties should bereviewable, like replay assist
should be on that.
And.
They could either throw the flagor not throw the flag.
I don't, it's so hard for thesereferees to like throw it in the
heat of the moment.
They can't see all these angles.
Sometimes the head snaps back,but the guy's hitting him in the

(42:59):
chest and the head just snapsback.
He's not hitting him in thehelmet.
I just review replay assist,could see those replays and just
be able to throw because thoseare game changing plays.
Automatic first down.
In this case, it would havetaken a touchdown off the board.
I'm not saying they wouldn'thave went ahead and scored who
knows, then maybe we stopped fora field goal.
And that's a big deal.

(43:20):
It's a four point play insteadof we take four points off the
board.
But yeah I just think that theyneed to look at the review.
These are too big of a play.
They, a few years ago they didthe pass interference.
They allowed them to review thatafter the whole Rams Saints
debacle and the playoffs.
No referee was going tooverturn.
They never, they hardly everoverturned pass interference

(43:42):
because they didn't want to,it's very subjective.
They didn't want to go againstthe ref.
If it goes to replay assist,that takes all the on field refs
out of the, of play.
And then they could, make acorrect

Jacob (43:54):
Make the right call.
Yeah.

yeah,

Jacob (43:56):
What did you think I don't know if you saw about,
cause we actually benefited fromone of these phantom facemask
calls, did you see that withDavid Montgomery?

Yeah, was it in the, it looked like in the
stadium, they replayed it.
It looked like face mask.
Was it not face mask?
Did he

Jacob (44:12):
No.

a

Jacob (44:13):
He had a sh he had a shoulder.
It was pretty clear, like, onthe replay, he just had a
shoulder.
It was just kind of the way thatDavid Montgomery kind of, I
don't know if he was dipping hisshoulder the same time he was
pulling, like with the intentionof breaking that tackle, cause I
don't think that he wasn'ttackled by him.
He did break that and kind ofget a few more yards, but we
just didn't we didn't get it.

(44:34):
Yeah, no, it was not a facemask.
We benefited from that end upbeing a scoring drive for us.
And that was actually, that wasa third and 2.
We probably would have went forit in 4th down anyway, but.
I feel very rarely that theLions benefit from calls like
this.

Yeah.

Jacob (44:48):
we did get one this game.

Yeah.
I don't know.
I, it seems like, lines arealways on the short end of that
stick, but I think we're alsolooking for that too.
The Packers many times, like intheir game thought we were, the
rest were biased in our favor.
We had some, we've had somecalls, I think of the bears game
itself.
We had, we, there was a phantomlike horse collar tackle or
something like that, that webenefited from.

(45:13):
It's just, we're gonna, it'slike in poker when you have,
well, I know you don't play, butfor me, like, you remember all
your bad hands, your bad beats,but you hardly ever, remember
your wins.
It's like that with a penalty.
I think, you remember all theones you missed or got called,

Jacob (45:26):
right.

On, you talked about that JMO trick play where
he threw through the

Jacob (45:31):
Yeah, how did you feel about that play call?

yeah, I mean, it's easy to say now that, yeah,
that was terrible because itdidn't work out.
I just, like you said, it'sunnecessary.
Why are we doing that?
Let me just, for the whole gamewe set, we're running the ball
so well and just controlling it.
And it's just, it's.
has killed us, but it seems likewe had just did what we talked

(45:55):
about before the game, rightcontrol with the rushing game,
we, our offense would have beenfine as third and one, my son
was, when golf fumbled, my sonwas so mad that we didn't run
it.
He was just, he just wanted tosee DMO get the first down as
all he

Jacob (46:10):
Right.

And we went, he passed there because we knew we
were going to go for it onfourth down.
Just, you don't anticipate.
A fumble there.

Jacob (46:19):
Yep.

I'm not going to kill that call.
Didn't like, I think the trickplay where JMO was going to pass
was tried partially set up bythe long run that happened
earlier, the long touchdown runthat he had.
They were hoping that thedefense would over pursued based
on.
Scoring on the last play andthey played sound defense.
They stayed right on Jameer andwe should have just taken it for

(46:40):
a loss.
JMO just tried to make somethinghappen with his legs.

Jacob (46:45):
Right.
You're probably right.
I mean, we did have that nicereverse play to Jamo that went
for that touchdown, and then wealso had a nice it was a toss to
David Montgomery, who then had ashovel pass to Amun Ra.
That was a really cool play thatwent for a big one too.
So we did score on a couple ofthose trick plays.
Yes.
But I mean, this one, it's justlike, it's the fourth quarter,
we're down 10 and what I talkedabout before we, we needed to

(47:08):
have like longer drives.
We were almost scoring too fastwhen we were moving the ball,
we're moving the ball too fast.
We're doing well.
But then our defense is rightback out there.
They're doing the same thing tous.
And then it was just like thistime, especially if they were
down by 10.
We need to have a decent drive.
We have to give, you absolutelyhave to have some sort of
points.
A field goal would have beenfine too.

(47:28):
We have to get something.
I think that was just a mistake.
Yes.
In hindsight, it was a bad playcall.
I think it was a mistake on JMOto make that throw.
And I know Randall L, wastalking to him about it
afterward too, but I think itjust so badly wants something to
happen that he's just, firing itup there.
And it was another nice play onsenior still to be able to make

(47:49):
that adjustment and move hisbody over and get that catch.

Yeah, I don't get one thing that made you made me
think of something back ondefense.
I wanted to talk about was thekept coming to the line.
Like they do this, they come tothe line then they'll switch
players out while they're on theline.
And then, our defense is comingin we were just, they kept
coming.
That was one thing that reallyhurt on defense is like, they

(48:14):
were, I want to say almost nohuddling, but you know, it, it
just caused a lot of confusionon defense.
There's multiple times that

Jacob (48:23):
Exactly.

weren't set on defense.
So

Jacob (48:27):
I mean, that's just also a really good coaching too,
because they know what we'redealing with.
They know our players ondefense, not everyone knows
everything.
They're not all on the samepage.
And that was a perfect way totry to exploit that.
And I didn't really catch that,but you're right.
I mean, that, that probably.
Played a hand in it that workedfor them.

it did.
And you could see it livebecause you the defense,
especially in the, like in thesecondary, they were still
shuffling, trying to find outwho's got who, and it was.
Especially after a meek wentdown,

Jacob (48:55):
Yeah.
Right.
Right.

for backups and just, we weren't quite ready for
that one play that we shouldtalk about before we move off
the offense is that touchdowncatch by Sam Laporta, that one
headed catch.
That was sweet.
I,

Jacob (49:07):
Absolutely.

an awesome catch.

Jacob (49:10):
Yeah, that was Milo's probably favorite play of the
season.
He couldn't believe it.
He was reenacting it with hisNerf football as the game was
still going on.
Yeah.
Golf is, he gets hit too.
He's like falling down to theside.
The ball doesn't come out good.
Just, awesome.
I'm sure it'll be a nice picturewhen they get that picture out
of him diving like that.
Great play by LaPorta.

(49:30):
That was to give us the leadagain, so.
It was still when the vibes werestill high.

Yeah, couldn't believe he caught it.
I thought golf was just throwingit away.
And then, the reaction, I, ithappened.
I think that happened in, yeah,it happened in my end zone.
So I was like right on top ofit.
And you see it and then balls,never hits the ground and you're
just like, he caught that.
And then you're waiting for thereplay.
And it took forever for thestadium to play the replay

(49:56):
because we just wanted to seewhat had happened.
Cause we're like, how did hecatch that?
It looked like it was totallythrown away and one handed stab,
just really good catch.

Jacob (50:07):
For sure.

All right.
Let's move off the offense here.
Let's just wrap up with a fewquestions before we get going.
So is this loss more on theoffense or defense, Jacob?

Jacob (50:21):
This is tough because I do feel like it's a full, like a
total team loss.
I don't know that you can putthe blame on any one person, but
you can't turn the ball overfive times on offense.
I mean, that's too much for anydefense to overcome.
You're asking too much for us tobe able to stop them so many
times for you to turn the ballover, especially giving up that

(50:42):
pick six.
They're scoring enough onoffense, and now, you allow them
to score on defense too.
I don't like saying that eitherof them are more to blame, but I
think if you had to go one wayor the other, you would say
those five turnovers on offense,that the offense just didn't do
their job.
How are you feeling about this?

I agree with you.
I mean, you can't, I don't liketo blame either side cause I
think.
There was mistakes making on allsides of the ball, coaching
maybe not so much on specialteams, but mostly on offensive
defense.
There was just mistakes all overthe place.
I think the offense felt thepressure that they could,
especially how the first halfwent, Washington, we were having

(51:21):
trouble stopping them.
So the offense feels like theygot to do more and that's not
how this team is built.
I mean, everyone's supposed tojust do their job, but with all
the injuries on the defense,they're doing the best that they
can.
It

Jacob (51:35):
Right.

week.
We forget that we had Hutchinsonon this team.
It would have been vastlydifferent if we had a Lehman
Hutchinson in this game, theirrun game, wouldn't have done
anything with a Lehman there.
they gashed us a lot up themiddle.
get Pat O'Connor out reallyhurt.
I feel like, cause I think theywere bottling up.

(51:59):
He did a fairly good job ofbottling, doing what he needed
to do with DJ reader.
They just, we could not stop therun game, obviously getting
Hutch in there.
We can get pressure with four,maybe move Jane Daniels just
didn't happen.
So I think the offense felt likethey had to do more.
Certainly it looked like golfthought he had to put some balls
out that.
He normally wouldn't put up thepick six was, that was a tug

(52:21):
going to be a tough throw.
He had to throw it over thelinebackers.
He sailed it, to Tim Patrick,they ended up getting picks,
touchdown on it.
Just JMO feeling like he had tothrow instead of just running
and taking it for loss.
I mean, just, you can't turnover the ball five times,
especially if you're not gettinga take 10 turnovers on defense.
It's not going to happen.

Jacob (52:42):
Right, but I mean, when you look at the total numbers,
we 521 total yards.
We had more rushing yards thanthem.
We had more passing yards thanthem.
We just, I mean, that's what itcame down to is those turnovers.
We lost the time of possessionbecause even those drives when
we were scoring seemed to behappening really quickly.
So, it sucks because you can'tsay it was a bad performance on

(53:03):
the whole as the offense,because we were moving the ball.
We were doing good for the mostpart.
It's really you got to take awaythose five turnovers.
Those five plays were all thedifference in the game.

yeah, it's situational football, man.
I mean, you could have greatnumbers.
I mean, look, let's look at theTennessee game.
We'll go back to that game.
Our offense had like, but lessthan 200 golf through less than
a hundred.

Jacob (53:25):
Right.

We got all those turnovers, right.
Or we kept getting special teamswas doing awesome in that game.
The stats can be all over theplace, but you know, you and I
watched the game, it's aturnover, you can't give up the
ball like that.
I think we could have weatheredthe storm with like, like two
turnovers, maybe even three, butfive without getting any of them

(53:46):
back.
And especially with our defense,not stopping them, just, it was,
it was over, And I hadoriginally planned on talking
about, Aaron Glenn or BenJohnson.
this episode is kind of runninglong.
Let's save that for the nextepisode, but real quick, by the
time we do the next episode nextweek, Jacob, our just real quick
answer.
Yes or no, Aaron Glenn and BenJohnson.

(54:07):
Are they still coaches for thelions next week we have this
when I have our next podcast, atleast one of them I'm not sure I
yeah, I think Aaron Glenn'sgonna be gone by next week.
I think someone's gonna want topull the trigger I know there

(54:28):
was talk today about Ben Johnsongoing the Raiders that was a
done deal But I don't know if Ibelieve that just yet.
I think Aaron Glenn is probablygone So yeah, probably by next
week at least half of the code,half of our our coordinators are
gone before we go, I just wantto tell you what I told my kids
we're walking back to the car,because I think as fans I just
want to let you know myperspective is,

Jacob (54:50):
I'll say at least one of them is gone already.
What do you think?

I've walked back to the car, I said, our window's
not closed, we are still a verygood team, we're going to be
getting a lot of these injuredplayers back, it's going to be
like getting a bunch of new freeagents.
That's how I feel like you'regetting agent Hutchinson.
You're getting the defensiveplayer of the year back.
That's going to be huge again.
Hopefully it leans back at somepoint next year.

(55:14):
We'll see him.
Maybe we'll get some free agentsor whatever.
We all thought Dan Campbell wascoach of the year after
Minnesota.
Things did not change in twoweeks.
He did not suddenly become a badcoach.
We're still have an awesomeleader.
Now we may lose some of ourother coaches, but I fully
expect Dan Campbell To do hisjob.

(55:34):
So I said, the future is bright.
We don't like the result asright now, this feeling sucks
that we have.
But the window's not over.
So that's why I told my kid, canget, especially they're not on
social media.
Like, we can see where it's justa lot of anger and a lot of
like,

Jacob (55:49):
Negativity,

just in general, there's in my mind, they're
still positive.
Do we want to end the seasonthis way?
No.
Should we expect better?
Yes.
Were we expected too much withall the defensive injuries?
Probably yes.
So what, any thoughts on that,Jacob, before we, we head out?

Jacob (56:11):
no, I agree 100%.
With all the injuries,everything that we've had to
overcome, we're going to begetting most of those guys back.
We've got a few, big decisionsto make in free agency, but this
is also, for Dan Campbell, theculture has changed, right?
This because of this loss, it'snot like all of a sudden these
players aren't going to want tocome to Detroit.
We heard that all offseason andpretty much all season long,

(56:32):
like, when players areavailable, they want their
agents to call Detroit.
They want to come here.
They want to be here.
They want to play for DanCampbell.
So, Dan came on Brad homes aregoing to be able to assign some
free agents.
We're going to be able to putsome people where we need them
to be.
And it's not every year thatyou're going to be having 18 or
19 players on IR or whatever,and that we're going to be
having to play with people likethat.

(56:53):
So the core of our team istogether.
The window is still wide open.
I'm not worried about next year.
I'm optimistic that we'll beright back in the same position.

Yep.
Before we head out, I just wantto give a couple of shout outs.
My old college roommate, JasonLomersy gave me some nice
messages on for both of us,Jacob, they really liked our
episode that we had with thecommander command this podcast
really liked Steve and Dev.
I just want to a shout out toJason.
Thanks for listening.
And also our super fan, Codygave me some words of

(57:26):
encouragement last night andwhat he was dealing with, what
he was thinking about, he'spretty positive about the
situation.
So that's good.
So I want to give a shout out toCody for listening all season
long and every, anybody elsethat's listened or responded or
talk, all year.
It's been great.
For those of you responded, it'sbeen great seeing the numbers
and people listening to us.

(57:48):
I'm hoping that continues in theoffseason.
There's going to be plenty oftalk.
We, Jacob, you and I started inthe offseason.
So we're kind of getting back toour roots.
We're going to have a fulloffseason to talk football this
year.
There's going to be plenty totalk about and maybe we'll get
back to the Honolulu Blitz andhave some fun, fun times with
that.

Jacob (58:05):
Right, right, no,

All right.
One last great guarantee for theyear.
Jacob said, Joska get over ahundred plus, get a hundred plus
rushing yards.
He almost had that in the firsthalf.
He had

Jacob (58:17):
right,

one Oh five.
I thought Gibbs and Montgomerywere going to score TD, Gibbs
scored two, but Monty did not,we got on the door set a couple
of times with Monty.
We could have got in there, justdeciding what to run with them.
It was great to see him on thefield.
He did break a couple of tacklesMontgomery.
So we got a little taste of himback.
Hopefully he comes back nextseason, healthy.
And we,

Jacob (58:38):
right back to Sonic and Knuckles.

it's going to be interesting.
If they're going to play it thesame next year, if they're going
to give Montgomery off the bat,they started this game with
Montgomery.
Are we going to start the same?
Are we going to start turning itover more to jock?

Jacob (58:54):
I would think it's probably going to flip.
They'll be pretty close to thesame kind of timeshare, but I
think Gibbs might be the onegetting the nod.

Yeah, maybe, as Monty gets a little bit older,
they give him a little bit moreof the break and just keep him
for when we really need some

Jacob (59:08):
Well, and the injury stuff that we've been going
through, right?
Let's just keep him healthy.

Exactly.
But.
It is what it is.
So I glad that everybodylistened to this episode.
I know it's a tough one.
Maybe it'll be therapeutic foryou talking about it with you.
Jacob has been therapeutic forme.
We've kind of went through it.
Part of it's frustrating, but ithelps me.
It's going to help me get overthis quicker.
I think we'll see, but we goingto go down to one episode a week

(59:33):
now?
You think?

Jacob (59:35):
Probably.
Right?
Except for maybe like during thedraft or some bigger things, but
that's why I figured one a week.
Keep it fresh.

yeah, and we might have some quick we did
like the quick grit take with,some Pro Bowl.
So we might have some of those,like throughout the season,
something big happens.
We might just throw like asmaller 20 minute podcast up,
just a quick reaction tosomething and we'll save our
thoughts for.
For a bigger show each week, andthen we'll have some guests on,
right?
We're going to have, we've madesome connections with people

(01:00:05):
along the way.
I know Morgan and Miko want towork with us and You and I,
might be on that pride ofDetroit podcast at some point
this off season.

Jacob (01:00:13):
All right.

Jason Harwood (01:00:14):
to look forward to.
So, uh, anything before we takeoff here?

Jacob (01:00:19):
No, I just, I really appreciate everybody listening.
It's our first year doing this.
It's been a great year.
Really only getting better everyweek and, ready for year two
already.

I know it's crazy that we've, we haven't done it
for a full year, but this is ourfirst full season that

Jacob (01:00:34):
First

it.

Jacob (01:00:34):
season.

Season of football and yeah, it's been a
lot of fun.
It's something I look forward toeach week.
I know it's, it is a fair amountof work that goes into this.
I didn't realize.
Going into, your perception as apodcast, Oh, it's an hour.
And, that's what they just talkfootball for an hour.
No, there's a, Jacob and I do alot of work setting this up,

(01:00:56):
beforehand trying to keep anorganized show and then
afterwards the editing and,putting stuff on YouTube and all
that stuff there's a lot ofstuff.
Have not reaped any financialbenefits, but we've

Jacob (01:01:08):
Oh.

of, personal benefits.
Yeah, this has cost us moremoney than than we've gotten
anything back, but I don't thinkeither one of us, that was a
goal we've just wanted closestto the team, create a community
and have access to things thatwe didn't have access before.
Like having Jeremy Reisman inthe show.
I mean, it was one of my.

(01:01:31):
Personal, like heroes in thepodcast world.
Just, I really look up to him asa lion's beat writer and all
that stuff.
And I'm, I don't want to likecount my chickens for their
hatch, but Eric has agreed tocome on during draft time.
So that, when that happens,Jacob, you might have to like

(01:01:51):
knock the fanboy out of mebecause I'm going to, I'm going
to flip when that happens.

Jacob (01:01:55):
Yeah, like when Jeremy came on the first time, right?

Yeah.
I didn't allow you to talk, butI, yeah, exactly.

Jacob (01:02:02):
You still do that from time to time.

Yeah, well, that's true, but I want, I want
this to be a good show.
So that's why I talk more,

Jacob (01:02:10):
That's why you have to edit yourself for hours
afterward.

I know, just like just cutting everything down.
I leave all your crap in, man.
I just leave all your errors inand I just sound so

Jacob (01:02:20):
All my errors.

Yeah, no, you actually, to be honest with you
afterwards, I'm cutting out.
I tend to repeat myself.
I cut out a lot of things foryou.
I'm just not as

Jacob (01:02:31):
You're overanalyzing yourself.

I think so a little bit, but also I think a
little more concise in the wayyou talk than I do.
I eventually get to what Iwanted to say just takes me a
little bit, but a little bit toget there.
So, all right, for Jacob, I'mJason.
Last time this season, duringthe season, I'm going to say
this Go Lions!

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E57: "Biting Re-Caps" - What Stage of Grief are you in? Detroit Lions vs Washington Commanders

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}E57: "Biting Re-Caps" - What Stage of Grief are you in? Detroit Lions vs Washington Commanders