E58: Lions' Offseason Beginnings: Coaching Losses and Gains

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jason Harwood (00:40):
Welcome to talking grit.
I'm Jason Harwood.
And with me is Jacob Litton.
We are at, we're in this boringpart of the off season, but
we've had some exciting stuffthis week that we got to talk
about here.
We lost a couple of coaches.
We've hired and interviewed somecoaches.
We are going to talk with MorganCannon.
He's going to join us for thisepisode, give us his insight.

(01:01):
I'm kind of curious how he'sfeeling after a week of, no
lions football here, but beforeI do all this, I do not want to
forget this.
Morgan wrote a really goodarticle.
It's called.
Pain is part of the process.
The Detroit Lions will be back.
It's up on pride to Detroit.
If you're in pain, still readit.
If you're not in pain, so, andyou're kind of over it, still

(01:22):
read it.
It's a great article.
So glad that you wrote thatMorgan.
I really enjoyed reading.
And I think it's like part ofthe healing process as well.
So thanks for coming on.

Morgan Cannon (01:31):
No, I appreciate it, man.
Thanks for having me on.
And yeah, thanks for the kindwords about the article.
It was cathartic to write thatit took me a minute to get it
down though.
I'll be honest.
Like, I had that article openfor like, probably 2 days just
because I was like, how do I getthis across?
without droning on, you know, Iwanted to set the table a little
bit, like how we would alwayswish for days like we just had,

(01:52):
you know, even if it ended soabruptly but yeah, fun season to
get, but you know, this is thebeautiful thing about having
like playing into the playoffsagain, though, like the off
season is so condensed.
I feel like, you know, it'sreally like two months and we're
in the thick of draft stuff, youknow what I mean?
Quick

Yeah, yeah, I know I was thinking about that
was like free agency is going tobe just right around the corner.
that is that is nice.
We're not already looking atmock draft stuff.
You know that that would havehappened like 2 or 3 weeks ago
and prior line seasons.

at least.

I don't know about you

Jacob (02:27):
Probably like the week or two before the season ended,
you're looking at mock draftslike where do I want, where do I
hope we fall?

yeah, I hope we lose these next couple of games
so we can get the number twopick, right?

Jacob (02:36):
I've never said that.

I know, I know, there would be plenty of people
that would though.
I don't know how you guys felt,but this was like weird, like,
as these games are coming up onSunday, it was, I was thinking,
we just played like a week ago.
For me, it felt like we hadplayed so long ago.
I don't know.
It's cause of the loss or whathappened, but did you guys feel
like that too?
Like it's only been a week sincethe Lions played.

No doubt.
It was cold too, man.
Like that whole, like it wasjust kind of a depressing time.
I'll be honest.
I was, I was, I was bummed.
They lost.
It was like negative 20 up inDetroit, man.
With the wind chill.
So yeah, it did.
It felt like a long time.
What about you, Jacob?

Jacob (03:17):
No, it was still fresh for me, man.
I still felt like, man, weshould be playing in this game.
I should be ready for this rightnow.
Sucks.

Yeah, we had, I don't know about you, Morgan,
but my wife and I were just,we'd look at the clock on Sunday
and we're like, we'd be drivingup to Detroit right about now.
Getting, getting it on, youknow, getting

Jacob (03:36):
Gettin it on.

yeah, well

Jacob (03:38):
On the way?

Hey man, that's a good luck thing that's happened
all year, man.
I'm just joking.
I got it.

Good

I, I was hoping that you wouldn't catch that but
nice.
That's a good catch, Jacob.
I've, you know, we'd be gettingup there and, and doing our
thing up at the stadium.
So that was a little depressing,but I was still able to enjoy
the two games on Sunday, eventhough the teams that won, I
really didn't want to see thisrematch at all.

Jacob (04:05):
I don't think anybody did.
Right?
I mean, we were all kind ofhoping for some fresh faces in
there, but Chiefs Eaglesrematch.

Yeah.
I don't even, are you guys haveany rooting interests in the
Superbowl?

No,

Jacob (04:18):
it sucks, but it'd be nice for Saquon, right?
And then I like, you know,Quinnian Mitchell from Toledo.

I

Jacob (04:26):
You know, he's real close by, so that would be cool for
him.
But at the same time, that meansthe Eagles fan base would have
to win another super bowl andthey just do not deserve it.
So it's you know, I can't reallylean one way or another.

That's exactly, Jacob took it right out of my
mouth, man.
I like the Eagles from playerstandpoint.
Like I don't, there's no, I likeDarius slay.
They got BG.
like you said, Queen Mitchellfrom right down 75 right there.
I, but hey, their fans suck.
I'll just be honest.
They

Jacob (04:56):
Yeah.

there's good ones out there, but guess what, man,
it's tough.
I'm

Yeah.

to talk to Eagles fans at all for the rest of
eternity, man.
Cause already they're prettytough to deal with on Twitter.
So

Yeah, well, we get ready because we face them
next year, Morgan.
So that I'll, I'll be getting mybutter, my popcorn.
And when that week happens,cause I know Morgan will be
throwing it.
We do go there.
Yeah.

Oh, good.
I won't be gone.
We'll be watching that one athome.
Good.

Yeah, I know.
But you'll be fighting them,fighting them on Twitter.
I know.
I know you, Morgan.

going to get better by that.
I'm, I'm, I'm not

Jacob (05:32):
No, you ain't.

probably not.
You're

Okay.
Yeah, you might, you might bebetter this

Jacob (05:36):
You

and then the season will start and it'll be,
we'll be back to vintage Morgan.

that's true.
Especially if we start out hotand they try to talk crazy.
I'm like, no, no, no, no, no.

Yeah.
We don't want, we don't want anyof that.
So yeah, I, I'm with You guys.
I, I don't know.
I.
I guess if you, I would ratherhave the Eagles win just because
I am so tired of the Chiefs.
I just like the Patriots wereback in the day, like just
always being there.
I'm just tired of the same oldteams getting there.
And I'm also tired of the wholelike treating Patrick Mahomes

(06:09):
differently.
And you know, what's a roughingthe passer for him is not
roughing the passer foreverybody else.
I find that extremelyfrustrating.

Yep.
a, it's become a talking pointwhen you don't want it to be, if
you're the NFL, in my opinion,and I think you do kind of need
to clean that up.
Like he needs to be officiatedjust like everybody else.
To your point.

Yeah, I agree.
Let's just talk about lessfrustrating thing.
Let's move on to, well, I guessa different frustrating thing.
We lost some coaches this week.
Some pretty darn good coaches.
talk about Aaron Glenn first,new head coach of the Jets.
So first of all, surprise youthat he went to the Jets at all.
Either one of you.

Jacob (06:48):
No, I mean, we talked about that in the preview, kind
of thought jets or saints wouldprobably be a good spot for him.
I, you know, I thought he wouldgo to the saints, but I guess he
liked the opportunity for thejets more.

Yeah.
And I think he'll get a, youknow, I just hope Woody Johnson,
like their ownership group, justlet him do his thing, man.
I think going to handle it.
Well, like they, I saw they wereasking him questions about Aaron
Rogers and I was dying.
He was like, yeah.
We haven't gotten that far yet.
Like giving them and then like,they would ask it a different
way.
He's like, I'm not going to get,you're not going to get me.

(07:18):
I was like, Oh, here it comesalready.

Yeah.

Him, him dealing with that New York media.
But no, I

I don't know if you watch the whole thing,
Morgan or not, but he like preaddressed the Aaron Rodgers
thing.
Like before he went toquestions, basically said, I've
already contacted him.
You know, the dialogue's thereand that's where he was going to
leave it.
And I mean, Aaron Glenn's beenin New York.
He knows how to deal with NewYork media.
So I don't think that was anysurprise to him.

(07:45):
The way he answered it and theway that he preempt.
Preempted the conversation.
I don't think that Aaron, Idon't think he wants Aaron
Rodgers to be back.
That's the way I, that's the wayI read it,

y'all imagine Aaron Glenn talking to Aaron
Rogers.

Jacob (08:02):
No,

I

Jacob (08:03):
not at all.

I feel like Aaron Glenn would choke him, you know,

I,

Jacob (08:08):
Right.
Have a great day.

Do you

well, I mean, if you're going to come in and be
new leadership, I mean, youcan't have two.
Two of those, you can't have twoleaders and and Rogers wants to
be one of those.
So, you know, I would, unlessAaron Glenn just came in and
just put his foot down and justshowed, showed the rest of the
team who's boss with AaronRogers and just benched him or

(08:31):
whatever he wanted to do.
That'd be a heck of a powermove, right?
Bring him back and just, you'reour number two.
We're going to start.
I don't care who's, you know,Tyrod Taylor.
He's our number one now.

Listen, I wouldn't blame him.
I try Aaron Glenn, man.
I'd tell New York's gonna findout quickly.
I

Mm hmm.

he That is one thing I think we're gonna have
to watch, though, is just AGdealing with that New York
media, you know?
After so long.
Cause he does get, I don't know,like Jeremy would talk about,
like, you know, they're on theirP's and Q's when they're up
there with Aaron, you might get,you might, he's not going to
yell at you.
You might get lectured though.
You know what I mean?
Like,

Yeah, you'll get put in your place.
That's the thing.
Like Aaron Glenn's confident inhis answers and he's not going
to back down.
So I, I felt for Jeremy and I, Ikind of asked him about that at
one point.
I don't know if that was on, youknow, camera or free, we're
just.
Talking, do you get nervous whenyou have to ask him a question?
Cause I know that's his job.

(09:33):
I know that's Jeremy, JeremyReisman is who we're talking
about.
I know that's his job.
So maybe he doesn't, but for me,I would, I would be very nervous
just cause like you said, hewill lecture you.
If you, I remember someone askedhim about spying sometime and
he,

Jacob (09:49):
Okay.

a quarterback spy and he just went off on it, you
know, you just take it adefender off the field.
Do you want to spy?
And.
It was great.
Yep.
You know, his tenure with thelions, I would say has been like
up and down, you know, likepeople just really wanted him
gone after a couple of years.

(10:09):
And then this year, the way thatstarted out and then through the
first, you know, set ofinjuries, he was really having
this defense play good.
You know, and then we had themeltdown and, you know, the
commanders game.
So Morgan.
Do you, were you happy with histenure with the lions?
Do you think he was a gooddefensive coordinator?

Definitely.
you saw like you saw there'slinear progression, right?
For the most part, know, goingback to 2021 and parts of 2022
people are like, Oh, my God, youknow, like, think about what the
talent the field was at thatpoint, you know, on in the
Holmes and Campbell era, like alot of resources were pumped

(10:49):
into the offense early, youknow, for the most part, and
then the defense has started toget a little bit of a backfill
here, like the last, you know,year or two, right?
Right.
So I look at look at the defensein the early parts of this year
because that's where I think youneed to look at like when you
look at Aaron Glenn like resumeas a defensive coordinator,

(11:09):
right?
When he had everything at hisdisposal, the lines were a top
five defense by most metrics,right?
yeah, I'm I'm very happy for A.
G.
excited that he's in the AFC,know, in

Jacob (11:24):
Yes,

in case he does start his own little, you know,
empire over there, you know,that'd be nice for him to be in
another conference.
And he looked good in the jetscreen.
I saw some clips, you know, he'sgoing to look good over there.
I just hope they can get aquarterback because otherwise
you're kind of up, you know,what's Creek in this league

Jacob (11:43):
you think he would roll a tie rod though.

at least for a year.
And I think he could at leastkeep the water above level
because he's going to get thatdefense because they have the
defense has pieces as y'all bothknow,

Jacob (11:54):
Right.
Silence.

it's got pieces.
So you get that defense back towhere it needs to be.
then if, you know, Tyrod canjust steer that offense because
the offense has pieces to yougot Garrett Wilson, you got
Brees Hall, you got some ElijahVera Tucker pieces along the
offensive line.
but yeah, you got a AaronRogers, you got to cut that
cancer out of that thing rightnow.
And go on.

(12:16):
I don't know.
I'd have to look at the over thecap to see what the dead cap
would be, but that he can'tstay.
I don't care.
And I, I almost can guaranteeyou, I just can't see Aaron
Glenn and Aaron Rogers workingtogether.
Let's put it that way.

Jacob (12:32):
No, do you think that almost would come up right?
Like for a G in the interviewprocess before he took it, he's
like, Hey, if I come here, thisguy's gone one way or another.
I'm not, you know, I'm notputting up with this,

No doubt, Jacob.
Yeah.

well, I mean, before, yeah, I think for both
accounts, they'd both theownership group and Aaron Glenn
would want to know what did youlearn?
This came up in the interviewprocess because you don't just
like take the job and be like,Oh, now I'm stuck with Aaron
Rogers as my quarterback.
You don't do that.
Cause.
Aaron Glenn knows he wants toget to a second contract.

(13:05):
Right.
And you don't, some of thesecoaches only get one year,
especially in New York.
You don't get a long leash inNew York.
You know, if he doesn't show aturnaround in a couple of years,
to be onto someone's new,

Yep.
And both those teams have stunkfor so long now.
I feel like it's even like ashorter leash because both them
and the giants have just beenblack for a

you know?

Jacob (13:28):
right?

All right.
Let's move on to the, the, tome, the more interesting of the
losses, Ben Johnson goes toChicago.
Jacob, I'll start with you.
Are you part of the Twitter?
Crowd that's just yelling andcall him a traitor or what's
your thoughts on it?

Jacob (13:49):
No, I'm not going to call him a traitor.
I'm not happy with it, but, youknow, that's just.
It is what it is.
I didn't, I know you kind ofthought because of how the
season ended that he might comeback.
I really didn't think he wasgoing to be back, but I really,
you know, I did not expect it tobe so quick and to be the Bears.
And I think that's just, youknow, you saw the Benedict
Johnson tweets and the stufflike that, you know, like the

(14:11):
betrayal and everything likethat.
I mean, he's got to go where hethinks he's going to have
success and he, he went toChicago.
What sucks about it is, youknow, we like Ben Johnson, he's
been a part of this team andeverything, I wanted him to go
somewhere and succeed and dowell, and then he went to the
Bears, like, man, now I gottahope you fall flat on your face,
I can't root for you over there,you know, I, you know, that's

(14:33):
what sucks, and him you know,walking into the building, and
it was like, you know, this isexactly where I wanted to be,
and it just was, everything wasso quickly after that loss,
yeah.
I think everyone was stillfeeling, you know, depressed
over what had just happened.
And then, you know, for his, thejabs he was taking at the
Packers and just everythingabout like his interview
process, I think it just rubbeda lot of people the wrong way.

Yeah, I agree.
You know, you, you see him inthe bears gear, but like you
said, I, I don't, I think therewas a small chance he could have
returned, but I also think hisagent probably told him like in
so many words, like, Hey, it'snow or never.
And then did the bears, did weconfirm that the, it was like,
he's getting paid.
paid, right?
Like they got, I

Well, I haven't heard about his contract deal
yet.
So

Jacob (15:21):
I didn't see anything confirmed.

Okay, good.
Yeah.
I heard some whispers, whichwould be crazy if those numbers
are even semi accurate.
So I get it setting up hisfamily for wealth in the future
generations.
But then, yeah, I don't know.
I would not want to coachagainst Dan Campbell two times a
year.
That's just what I'm

that was surprising.
The Chicago ownership group isnot, you know, traditionally
been known as a good ownershipgroup I found it that he went
there.
I'm with you Jacob.
I felt You know, like I want toroot for Ben Johnson.
He's done so much for the lions.
I want to root for him, but nowwe can't, can't root for him.
He's in our division.

(16:01):
Me, when I saw him in his, youmentioned seeing him in the
Chicago gear the first time,that's like seeing an ex
girlfriend with their newboyfriend, all looking all
happy.
That's what it felt like to me.
You know, just like, Oh, and,and, ugly bears colors.
Jacob, did you think that, doyou think he knew he was going

(16:21):
to the bears before, like theplayoff game before the
commander's game?

Jacob (16:27):
You know, this is interesting, but I, because of
the timing and everything, Ithink he had to know that he was
going to Chicago.
I don't think, because that'sanother thing, people are like,
oh, he was sabotaging the game?
and he was calling it a certainway because he, you know, was
really arty for the bears.
That's definitely not the case.
But I do think that he probablyknew he was going to the Bears.

(16:47):
The Bears held their lastinterview, I think, like the day
before our game.
So, I mean, there's a chancethey called him that night or
the morning of the game andsaid, you know, the job is
yours.
They also may have told him whenthey interviewed him, like, you
know, we want you here if youwant this job.
And then maybe those otherinterviews are just kind of a,
you know, like a safety net forthem in case he didn't take it
or whatever.
But I think he knew he wasgoing.

(17:10):
That's an awful quick time toget over the loss and make a
decision when you are in Chicagotwo days later, you know.

What do you think about that, Morgan?
Do you think he knew?
Yeah.

part of me thinks so, because it's, it's similar
to, it's just one of thosesituations that shake, that
shakes out to Jacob's point.
Like when a team hasn't hiredanybody, like when the lions
hired Patricia, right.
And they had to wait all the waythrough, through the whole, like
after the super bowl, right.
Yeah.
After the super bowl.
So like, you know, it's kind ofthe writings on the wall at that
point.
And then I.

(17:44):
Yeah, I bet you there's, there'ssome unspoken agreements.
Like obviously you can't signanything at that moment, but I
think he probably knew, I stillthink that he probably wanted a
super bowl ring in Detroitbefore he left for Chicago.
Cause that's why he kept comingback.
Ultimately didn't feel like asituation was like, right for
and his family.
And but now, yeah, he got paid,I'm sure.

(18:05):
And Chicago is a cool place.
But yeah, enjoy being at leastsecond fiddle at the most, man.
Cause the North is the lionsuntil it's not like two times in
a row.
I don't care what anyone elsesays.
That's hopefully three.

Jacob (18:19):
Right.

I like, I like our chances at three schedule
next year's might have somethingto say about that, but I'm not
gonna go against us.
But the, there's some reallygood coaches in the NFC North.
I mean, O'Connell's good.
He might win coach of the year.
You got, you know, obviously.
Dan Campbell.
see how Ben Johnson is as a headcoach.
He's going to call the plays outthere in Chicago.

(18:41):
It sounds like, so we'll, we'llsee how he juggles all that.
That seems tough, but he didhire Dennis Allen to be his
defensive coordinator, which Ithink is a good hire, but it's
also probably helpful to him tohave another head coach, former
head coach on your, on yourstaff, someone that he could go
to and, and talk, talk thingsthrough.
I get the sense that BenJohnson.

(19:03):
like from the interviews I sawafterwards that after last
year's interview cycle He wentthrough this like the offseason
and through the season lookingat things differently Like as a
as a head coach like how hewould how he would do things and
he kind of said as much so Youknow It sounds like he maybe had
made his mind up that no matterwhat had happened this season

(19:25):
that he was going to Going toleave as a, as a head coach
which, and you're right, Morgan,you don't get a lot of
opportunities.
You know, you can't keepflirting with it and then just
decide on your own terms whenyou're going to go.
There's only so many of thesejobs open.

No doubt.
Nope.

All it takes is golf to get hurt next year, and
then Ben Johnson, the offensedoesn't look good, and then Ben
Johnson maybe doesn't look, lookas hot.
Look at look at Houston.
The offensive coordinator downthere just got fired, and he was
a big name last, last coachingcycle, and now he's got fired
this year.

Slowik.

Yeah,

Yeah, it happens quick, man.
And a lot of that was just asoffensive line getting his butt
whooped their butts whooped, youknow what I mean?
And says it sucks, but that'skind of how the NFL is.
Someone's heads got to roll.

Yes.

unfortunate.

Jacob (20:18):
yeah.

The other thing that people are not taking too
kindly in Detroit, although Idon't have a problem with it
myself, is him hiring BenJohnson hiring JT Barrett as
quarterback's coach, you know,poaching him from the Lions and
also we're losing Randall L,which I'm sad about personally,
because I like Antoine RandallL.
He got a, you know, he got atitle upgrade as assistant head
coach.

(20:39):
And then also the wide receiverscoach.
So do you guys have any thoughtson that?
Start with you, Jacob.

Jacob (20:45):
I really you know, it sucked to see Randall L go,
especially, you know, to theBears and that whole thing.
Again, it's like, man, you know,seeing him work with Amin Ra and
Jamo and everything that he'sbeen able to do.
I like the, you know,continuity, so it would have
been nice to keep AntoineRandall L.
JT Barrett, obviously, he wasjust like I think he was an
assistant coach here, so nowhe's getting to be the
quarterback coach in Chicago.

(21:06):
That one makes sense for him.
Randall L.
They make him associate headcoach or they, there's some sort
of promotion with that too,right?

It's like he's wide receiver coach, but
assistant head coach, I think

Jacob (21:17):
Yeah.

him to come, he had to have an upgrade and like,
you have to have an upgradeline.
Cause I assume he's undercontract with Alliance.
He couldn't just leave on alateral move unless we let him
go.
So he probably

Jacob (21:29):
Okay.

but you have, like, if you get an upgrade in
title or something like that,then.
Then you're, then can't hold onto you.

Jacob (21:37):
Yeah.
I mean, good for him.
I obviously, I think that'sgoing to be a big loss.
I like Randall L, but at thesame time they were not able to
pull away Hank Frehley, sothat's a win.

Yes.
That's a big win for you, right,Morgan?

Man.
Keeping Hank is huge.
Like I, I love Randall L two,you know, I'm a baby.
So Randall L was one of myfavorite non lions in the early
two thousands.
He was just a fun player to be afan of, and he's gotten a lot
like, you know, he's overseenall the growth from Amin Ra.
He got.
going and rolling this yea So, alot of de has blossomed

(22:17):
seemingly u but this is justwhere I just like very similar
to You know, year after year, Ijust trust this is Dan is a,
staff builder.
Like, you know, if you'replaying a video game and he has
like a badge, that's, that's oneof his, that's one of his for

(22:37):
sure.
So I

Mm hmm.

I think they'll, they'll plug in some guys, but
yeah, to y'all's point, HankFraley is huge.
And he got a title upgrade to,to, you know, run game
coordinator.
So love that

I'm sure he got some money too.
I'm sure Sheila opened up thecheckbook.

Jacob (22:54):
right.

Yeah.
Ain't

all right.

cap for coaches.

Hey, exactly.
You know, spend what you can.
Hey so before we move on to likesome of our new coaching hires,
do you guys, I just have ageneral question.
We'll start with you, Morgan.
Do you think, know, the NFLshould allow to be able to
interview these coaches orshould they like everyone be on
the same playing field that youcan't hire someone until the end
of the, like after theSuperbowl?

(23:20):
Do you, what's your feeling onthat?
Do you think it should just

Jacob (23:22):
Thank you.

the same or

That's tough.
Just because like, if you didthat right, like the Superbowl
is on what day now?
February.

ninth

or

or is it the ninth?
I'm pretty sure it's the ninth.

So February 9th, right?
And the new league years, March13th, that's a quick turnaround.
Like if

Mm hmm.

teams that fired their coach and you're waiting,
waiting, waiting, and then youhave like, your new coach has a
month to get his staff assembledthe best he can.
And then you got to approachfree agency.
So that would be the onlypushback from teams that I
would.
Or like, you know, or like theplay, the association in this
case that, you know, you knowwhat I mean?
Like just the

Yeah.

But I hear what people are saying though,
because it's a lot like,especially if you're, if you
don't have a first round by likethe lions had this year and
you're, you're prepping for awild card game you know, doing
prepping for a three hourinterview with a couple of
different teams stuff.

I know

Yeah.

think, Jacob?

Jacob (24:25):
Yeah.
I mean, there's no way that it'snot a distraction to be having
multiple interviews, which iswhy, like you said, we had the
bi week, so that was good, youknow, this year, but I don't
think you can change the rulejust because there's, you know,
January 6th was black Monday.
So that's when they let allthese coaches go and.
I mean, you let the coaches go.
Obviously, if you're going tomove on, you still got to move

(24:45):
on at that point, but then yougo basically a full like 30 days
longer than 30 days before theSuper Bowl.
Before you start interviewing,let's say it takes you a week or
so before you get your coach.
And then, like Morgan said,they've got to get their staff
and everything going justcondenses everything.
So, I mean, it does suck, but Ijust don't know how you would
switch around.
Yeah.
I know you've got like a CliffKingsbury this year said he's

(25:08):
not taking any interviews until,you know, the season is over.
He's fully focused on the gameand, you know, commanders upset
us and everything.
But now here we are, the onlyjob that's open as the saints.
So if he was looking to be ahead coach now, you know, now
you're fighting for that onespot that you probably don't
want anyway.

Yeah.

Jacob (25:27):
mean, it does suck, but I just don't know how you would
change that.

still getting those checks from Arizona, so he
doesn't, he doesn't even care.

Jacob (25:34):
Right.
He's got a good thing going.

Yeah, exactly.
He's like, been there, donethat.
You got fired.
I'm good.

Yeah, yeah, exactly.
I, I don't believe that itaffected the game at all.
Like our, like talking about ourlions game, with the buy, but
you know, it just, I feel badfor those guys having to take
five, like three hour interviewsinside a week and you got to
prepare.
And those interviews aren'tlike.
Hi, I'm Aaron Glenn.

(26:01):
I, you know, want to bag yourgroceries.
No, it's like, you have to knowthe team's roster.
I mean, there's a lot of preptime that goes into that.
But I know that when DanCampbell interviewed during that
week, he was taking time off, hetold his coaches to take time
off, so I think they were justusing that time as a rest.
So I don't think it reallyaffected that preparation
because Dan wanted to know whowe were going to play before

(26:23):
they broke everything down.

Yep.
Did it the smart way for sure.

Yeah.
All right.
Let's talk about our new hire.
Let's start with the DC, thedefensive coordinator, sir.
We hired Kelvin Shepard, Morgan,what do you, what do you think
about that?

I love it.
And it's something that likeI've been hoping for since it
really kind of got whisperedabout for the first time.
Like Aaron Glenn gave his likestamp of approval for ship.
Not that long ago, but like hewas on those Patricia teams, at
least the 2018 roster from whatI remember.
Yeah.
So he's not that far removedfrom playing energetic guys.
Like a lot of people are goingto remember that scene from hard

(27:00):
knocks.
Remember, like he basically himthe linebacker room, which was
bad at the time.
Like I'll play Rodrigo.
like, what, what were you pickedin?
He was like six, I'll play him.
I'm like, okay, I like this guy,

Jacob (27:13):
Yeah.
Right.

so I'm going to bring a lot of the same.
Principles and concepts is a G.
If I had to guess like there'sgoing to be like, you know, some
differences because he's, he'shis own individual, but I do
think under the Dan Campbelllike regime, it's always going
to be about what gives us.
We're going to assemble as muchtalent as we can to where we can
develop like a specific gameplan on a week to week basis,

(27:37):
which, in my opinion, that givesyou the best chance to win on,
you know, every week.
So, yeah, I'm excited.
What about you, Jacob?

Jacob (27:46):
Oh, for sure, kind of like building on what you said,
you know, he was a player notthat long ago.
He's been around, you know, thisteam for a while.
He's been under a G.
So, you know, back to thatcontinuity thing.
I think he's going to be able tocontinue the defense and try to,
you know, build on and make itbetter, you know.
The defense struggled with theinjuries and everything, but we
were playing well, you know,early on into the season.

(28:08):
And, I mean, I, I think thatwe're going to get back to that
form pretty quickly under Shep.
I mean, he's also You know, as aplayer, he knows how hard it is
to adapt to certain changes inthe defensive scheme.
So I think he's definitely goingto do a better job at, hey, you
know, I'm going to make thisdefense my own.
Maybe I'm just switching outplay calls.
I'm only making minor changeshere and there.
You know, but we're, we're goingto get the ball rolling pretty

(28:30):
quickly.
And, you know, he was at the topof my list for sure.
I wanted to just, you know, ifAD was going, it just seemed
like the make, it made the mostsense just to move Shep up.

Yeah, I'm

Jacob (28:41):
Yeah.

where maybe we hired him.
Justin Rogers had like ainterview, he posted in his
subscription service and it's avery good read.
The thing that I took out fromis Calvin Shepard talks about
conceptual learning where eachposition doesn't learn just
their job.
They learn what the goal of thewhole defense is and therefore.
You could cut corners in thesense of like, okay, I know I

(29:03):
have, you know, the safety issupposed to be here.
So I'm going to, you know, Idon't have to cover as much
area.
So if you know what the wholedefense is doing, you could do
your job better.
And then also if there's aninjury or something like that,
you're better prepared to likemove around.
And cause you know what, youknow, your defensive goals are
when you, and I think it's justlike everything.

(29:23):
When I'm at work and Jacob mademe feel this way, if I know
what.
The whole situation.
I know everybody I'm workingwith.
I could work much better becauseI could trust the guy next to
me.
I know what they're going to do.
And I think that's where KelvinShepard is going to shine is
that his teaching ability andjust as is his ability to
communicate is top notch.
And I think that that sort ofserves so well as a coach.

Yep, no doubt.
I really think like are like thetight end equivalent of like
coaching, like a lot of tightends become good coaches because
they have to know everythinglike the run scheme, you know,
passing concepts, routeconcepts, the whole nine
protections.
And then conversely linebackersgot to know it all to like run
fits.
checks, you know, coverages whowere passing off to depth, all

(30:09):
that stuff.
So I make sense to me that shipis, and he's so energetic.
I, I'm excited, man, because heis always like, if you watch it
training camp, he's one of myfavorite people to watch because
that man has turned 24,

Jacob (30:22):
Yeah.
Bye.
Bye.

just

that'll be.
Yeah, they, you know, you'regoing to lose a little something
from Aaron Glenn not being inthe defensive coordinator
meetings, but you're going togain it right back getting
Kelvin Shepard in there.
You're going to get a goodquotes.
You're going to, you know, hemight be more positive than
Aaron Glenn in those interviews.
I think he just, but he'll giveyou, he'll give you some good

(30:45):
quotes.
I'm sure Jeremy's excited.
I think Jeremy has told me thatthat's his favorite interview.
So I'm sure he was excited.
by this hire.

yeah, for sure.

We haven't hired a new OC, but it's looking
strongly that we're going to getJohn Morton.
He is the passing gamecoordinator for the Denver
Broncos right now.
Formally play our coach with thelions.
he did was the OC for the, Ithink 2017 jets.
So he has had an OC job before.

(31:17):
Jacob, we'll start with you.
Any thoughts on John Morton or Idon't know if you've done much
rating on him yet, because thisnews just came about today.

Jacob (31:26):
Not quite, but I mean, you know, he is familiar with
Dan Campbell.
He's familiar with the Lionsorganization.
He has you know, experience asoffensive coordinator, you know,
back to the continuity thing andjust being able to, if everyone
has the same goal as the samemindset, We're going to be okay
with the offense that we have.
We're retaining pretty much allof our important pieces on

(31:47):
offense.
I just, you know, people madethat comparison online with the
jets team in 2017 had JoshMcCown quarterback.
I mean, you know, actually Ithink Nolan, somebody had posted
that it's like most of theseguys had career years that
season, even though he onlylasted one year, but I mean,
he's getting the keys to areally nice offense.
So I think we're going to beokay.

(32:10):
How do you feel Morgan?
Silence.

Yeah, I really think Johnson even said as much,
and I'm paraphrasing here, buthe basically said it doesn't
matter who's calling plays forthat offense anymore, man.
That thing is a doomsdaymachine.
It's got all pros everywhere.
It's really just about likesomeone and I like that Dan
Campbell opted to go somebody ahe trusts to implement what he
wants done offensively becauseDan's going to have his fingers

(32:32):
like he trust me, this is, thisis going to be great in my
opinion because it's going to bean image of what Campbell wants
for his offense and then you'regoing to get more of Hank
Fraley's input on the groundgame, which I love because back
to some of those, you know, 2022and like, you know, 2023 tapes

(32:53):
where the lines are justthrowing everything and the
kitchen sink at people from therun game standpoint, like, all
kinds of concepts, counter powerzone, you name it.
So I'm excited because I reallythink it's just going to
seamlessly, like you said,Jacob, just keep on rolling on.
I don't really anticipate anyhiccups or anything.

Yeah, thing I've learned about John Morton is he
was hired multiple times by SeanPayton, John Gruen, Jim
Harbaugh, Dan Campbell.
If that doesn't speak to yourcharacter, I don't know what
those are all coaches I respectand coaches in this league.
So if they're going to hire thisguy multiple times.
Then it means they think theyadd value to the team.

(33:34):
I think, you know, Morton was onthe team when we had golf, you
know, a couple of years ago.
So he's familiar with golf.
I'm sure that golf has signedoff on this because, you know,
Dan Campbell said that he wouldtalk to Jerry golf.
Cause you know, they talkedabout it last year with bad jobs
that are not last year, but inthe past, this was like.

(33:55):
A collaboration of the offense,Jared Goff had all his input in
there.
So they wanted to make sure thatthis is someone that Jared Goss
can be able to work with.
I think you're I think you'reright on the money, Morgan.
Dan Campbell is going to be ableto put, I think he's going to
have more of a stamp on thisoffense.
And I'm going to suspect thatwe're going to be running.
we run a lot, but I expect maybenot as many trick plays and

(34:19):
just.
No one, and just winning withwhat we can next year and what
we know works well, and that'sJameer Gibbs and David
Montgomery.

Yep.
We're on behind 58

Jacob (34:31):
Right, right.
I did not want them to try tobring an offensive coordinator
you know, That's just going totry to make too many changes.
I think, you know, they see thetools, the weapons that we have,
and some of these, you know,younger offensive coordinators
that just want to try to, youknow, I guess be flashier or try
to do this or that.
It's definitely not what Iwanted.

(34:52):
And that's not what the teamneeds.
That's not what Dan Campbellwanted either.
You know, just want to keep theball rolling with what we've
got.
We got a good thing going.

mean potatoes, man.
Just keep that thing.
Exactly.
Jacob.
Yep.

Yeah.
Just keep moving it forward,because, we, you know, I know
golf had last bad game the lasttime he was out there, but those
are few and far between.
And you know, We can all saywhat we want to say about it.
We didn't run enough in thesecond half, but our defense
dictated that as much asanything else and us turning the

(35:24):
ball over.
We were, our hands got forced inthat, unfortunately, if we were
up in the game that happened onSaturday, Philadelphia and, and
the commanders Philadelphia goesup 14 to three early on against
the commanders.
And we should have been up 14 tothree had we not fumbled down in
the red zone.
And I was, I looked at my boysand I was like, this is the

(35:46):
position that we would have beenin.
And had we got to that position,then you would have saw just us
running and just taking time offthe clock and controlling all
that.
And then letting our defenserest.
Otherwise we got forced intosituations that were not.
That we couldn't thrive in.
Unfortunately.

percent, man.
I do.
I remember where I was.
I've said to sweat.
I was like, God, I hate whenwe're in empty.
Like on third and short orfourth and short and then sure
enough, good

so.
We lost Terrell Williams.
He would become the defensivecoordinator for new England,
which makes sense becausevariables out there now.
So I'm kind of disappointed onthat, but we did our, I'm
actually really excited aboutour new defensive line coach
Casey Rogers.
I think we did pretty good andreplacing Terrell Williams.
So Morgan, I know line play andall that stuff, and you love

(36:40):
watching film.
Do you have any

position coach.
You hear a lot of good thingscoming out of Tampa about him.
he's seen overseeing a lot ofdevelopment, right?
Like collage, you can't seestarted playing really well this
year.
Obviously, I mean, I don't knowhow much you really have to
coach that man.
That's a monster.
of a human.
But yeah, they've consistentlybeen really good on that side of

(37:04):
the ball for Tampa Bay andCampbell again.
The ties run deep.
You know, this is another reallygood hire in my opinion, because
I'm just gonna keep things goingfor, you know, you want to keep
nurturing the young players youhave, like similar to the
offensive line.
You have Roderick Martin, whoyou really need an uptick for

(37:24):
man.
That's someone who I'm a littleconcerned with that will, I'm
sure, talk about during the ofthe offseason.
But yeah, there's some guys inthere on that defensive line
room that certainly needs somenurturing because need those
draft picks to hit here soon.

Jacob, have you had a chance to read up on Casey
at all?

Jacob (37:44):
Yeah, you know obviously losing Terrell Williams sucks,
but you know, he was good in thelocker room and.
This was his only year that hewas here and the defensive line
definitely improved.
You could see that early on forsure So, you know, we kind of
saw that coming when he wasgonna leave for New England but
I liked the the quick action tobring Casey Rogers in here and

(38:06):
Back to what you're sayingbefore keep the ball rolling
with the defense, right?
I mean you you want improvementYes, but I think that a lot of
the defensive lines young Theyjust need more time Like you
said project Martin's a big onecuz that's one, you know this
year We were hoping he was gonnatake that next step and now it's
you know Now it's almost now ornever, we need to see something
from him.

Yeah,

Jacob (38:26):
What about you, Jason?

I, so I reached out to Tampa Tones, who is the
podcaster we, you know, got withwhen we played Tampa Bay Bucks.
And I asked what his thought onCasey Rodgers were.
And first of all, he said he'sgreat against the run, which
totally fits him with.
The lion's philosophy, we needto be stout against the run.
I asked him, I'm like, well, whydid Casey Ryder?

(38:48):
He's been with top bowls, likepretty much like his whole
coach, not as old, but recentcoaching careers.
I was wondering why he wanted,would want to leave top bowls.
And he thinks that maybethere's, he thinks that there's
a chance of advancement andmaybe he got paid more.
So didn't really know, but thatwas his thought.
And I said, what can we expectfrom Casey?
And he said, besides being greatat grants around, he goes, you

(39:11):
will have, you know, even thebottom part of your roster will
see significant upticks andtheir play.
That Casey always had the lineready to play, which is music to
my ears.
You know, hopefully, you know,know you guys both mentioned
Broderick Martin.
I think that that's going to beeverybody's good and training
camp and, you know, everythingthat's coming up this summer,

(39:31):
all eyes are going to be on him.
I know when we go to trainingcamp, Jacob, that's who we're
going to be watching, right?
We're going to be like, did hemake some improvements?
Because it was disappointing,right?
We had all those injuries and hestill couldn't make the field
you know, so.
That, that was, that was scary.
So hopefully we, you know, hemakes a big third year jump.
I think of Derek Barnes, right?
The first two years, he kinda,he had the injuries just like

(39:53):
Broderick had the injury last orthis past season, and then made
a big third year jump.
So hopefully we can expect ofthose physical gifts that
Broderick has, you know, to beable to have some talent behind
them and make a difference.
But yeah, we'll see.
We, I don't, you know, I don'tknow if we're going to be done
with losing coaches.
Aaron Glenn still has to fillout his staff, so we might see

(40:15):
some attrition coming, comingthere.
But see.
I, with you, Morgan.
Dan Campbell's going to make thehire, right?
I mean, everyone wants to workwith Dan Campbell, so he's, he's
going to have his choice of whohe wants to work with.
And I, I have faith in that.

Yeah, he's just that guy at this point, you
know,

Exactly.
right.
Well, before we move on to some,we quickly, we're going to talk
a little bit about some upcomingfree agents.
I don't want to get into it toomuch just cause season's still
on.
We'll have plenty of time totalk about it.
But we do need to mention thatgolf was, you know, in the top
five of the MPV MVP finalists.
I know his last game was notwhat we wanted.
Well deserved.

(40:57):
I'm glad that he's getting somerecognition being up there.

yeah,

Jacob (41:01):
Absolutely.

yeah, MVP caliber season.
I know he had a couple like theHouston game and then the game
here against Washington, butsome of that, that's not all on
golf either.
Like we.
Jeremy did a fantastic breakdownon pride of Detroit.
com of like the, the, theinitial fumble.
Like that Jason was justmentioning earlier, like where

(41:22):
the lions had an opportunity togo up 14, three pretty early on
in the game.
And then the game swungdramatically off that football's
a fickle game, man.
That's why it's so awesome.
And so maddening at the sametime.
But yeah, you know, GrahamGlasgow gets whipped off the
line of scrimmage.
I'm in Ross slips at the top ofhis stem.
Fumble, right?
So

Yeah.

not all on golf and I played great and that's
why I'm excited about the Mortonhire because he was really
apparently, you know, a big partof everything going on in 2022
and he was a senior assistantlike Campbell said as much and
deserve it.

Yep.
Yeah.
I mean, there was a lot ofquarterbacks.
I have good seasons this year.
I mean, some of your top oneslike Annalyn and Lamar Jackson
and I mean, Baker Mayfield had apretty good season and Joe
Burrow.
So, I mean, he, he was up, Imean, but to be in the top five
for your MVP finalists, I mean,you couldn't ask for much
better.
He's making a little less thanJordan Love.

(42:19):
It was Jordan Love in that topfive, Jacob

Jacob (42:25):
Not even close.

Yeah, a little dig on him.
So I know Morgan, you watch allthe press conferences cause
you're into this as much, and Iknow Jacob does too.
Did you guys, either one of youguys catch the Brad Holmes press
conference?
Shortly after the season,

Yeah,

any thoughts, anything?
I mean, it was, there wasn't anybreakthroughs in this in this
talk, but did you have anythoughts on what Brad had to say
or his reactions or anything?

that was about par for the course.
I feel like he was going to, Iknew he was going to talk about,
they're going to need to addmore depth because this, we
talked about the beginning ofthe year.
This is a deep roster and thenthey got, yep.
know, you're on your 7th or 8th.
It was like interesting to hearhim talk about the process of
getting the Darius Smith and howthat was the most difficult
thing he's navigated so far ofbeing a GM like which makes

(43:14):
sense when he broke it down.
So like matter of factly, butyeah, like no one wants to give
up edge rushers.
So it's a very small pool of adrushers you're actually trying
to acquire.
But yeah, I'm excited that hewas very much stay the course.
Like we're not about to getcrazy because they want to do
this.
I think in my opinion, that'sthe best way to.

(43:35):
Try and win multiplechampionships is in the playoffs
year after year after yearbecause even like a it could be
a year when the lines are, youknow, 10 and 7 and make the
playoffs and that's the yearthey win the Super Bowl.
You just never know now, becauseI do think they're going to be
one of these teams that'sconsistently in the mix year
because you got Holmes and DanCampbell.

(43:56):
So,

Yeah.

that's right.

did you, did you do read or listen to the, or
listen to his press conferenceat all?

Jacob (44:07):
I did this in the press conference.
I don't remember specificquotes.
I know like you know, talkingabout Terry on Arnold and like
how the rookies performed thisyear and everything, you know,
it was kind of a classic.
There wasn't anything I won'tsay that like jumped out at me.
It was positive though.
I mean, pretty much every timeI've heard Brad Holmes talk, I
have a hundred percent trust inthat guy.

Yes.
I'm with you on that.
I, I think he's right though.
Like you don't need, you don'tneed to tear everything down
apart.
Like I know that a lot of fansare just like up in arms about
this and it's just cause they'renot used to.
Being in this spot, right?
I mean, every, you know,everyone has to be these crazy
reactions.
I look at a team like Baltimore,right?

(44:50):
If their fans were like thatevery year, know, tear, tear all
this down.
They're consistently up there.
And you know, not everybody'sgoing to be Kansas city and get
to the super bowl every year.
It's just, that's just not goingto happen.
And you want to get to theplayoffs as much as you can.
And I think the way that BradHolmes has built this roster
that gives us the best chance.
To get there every year.

(45:10):
didn't have all our defensiveinjuries, we'd be still playing.
We'd be, you know, this would bea different podcast right now.
We'd be getting ready for thatSuperbowl.

I

Jacob (45:18):
Yeah.

agree.
Even if you had a few of them,you don't even give us back 97
give us back Aleem and Carlton.

Jacob (45:28):
Yeah.
Right.
I was going to say Carlton.

you know

I know.

give us those three.
If you give us 97, then we mighthave a little conversation here.

Jacob (45:35):
Yeah.

I firmly believe, man, they were top five.
They were like top.
There were one DV away all theway up through the, like the
Hutch thing.
And then even for a while theywere dominating prior to the
last big gas of injuries.
That was the Buffalo game.
Yeah.
Aleem and

Yeah.
When a lean went down, I mean,that hurt our run defense
significantly.
And you saw that, I commander'sgame.
They were gashing us.
Up the middle and we couldn'tget any pressure.
I think if you watch thePhiladelphia watch the game, the
biggest difference for JaneDaniels is Philadelphia was able
to get in Jane Daniels face andmake him move around.

(46:11):
And we just, without blitzing,we could not do that.
And that's, that was asignificant difference in that
game.

no doubt.
And that's why it hurt havinglike, we had no disrespect, but
they had like Miles Adams andJonah Williams out there.
And it's just, there's a reasonlike without being
disrespectful, those guysweren't on rosters at the
beginning of the season and whythey were available and so on
and so forth.
And you get to a certain point.
Like, especially I've watchedthat film back one time.

(46:39):
I still haven't written about itbecause I was like, it was good
Lord.
But this is just, yeah, guys aregetting worked over, man.
So it helped for Philadelphia.
They had Jalen Carter and allthese guys, Nolan Smith on their
front.
And that, that helps, you know,Darius Slade, Clinton Mitchell,
you know, that's nice, that'llwork.

yeah.
Yeah.
It'd be nice.
I'm not happy about GardnerJohnson getting, getting, you
know, after the shots he took atLions fans.
Now he's, he's back in the SuperBowl, but yeah, he is, yeah.
But he was all right, you know,when he was at the lions, I
could you know,

it

support those guys.
Yeah, I could stomach those,

Jacob (47:18):
think Lions fans were also quick to turn on him too.

yeah.

sure.
Yeah, it was, it went both ways.
He's just funny.
He like was making fun of Jadeand Daniels yesterday.
That's what made me think ofthe, say the turd thing.
He was like.
Jaden McDaniels.
He like added an extra syllable.
He's like,

Jacob (47:35):
Yeah.

I thought that was, I thought that was funny.
He's just always talking, man.
Why didn't

Jacob (47:39):
Yeah, right.

why didn't he change his name to CD deuce?
He was, he thought, I thoughtthat was happening.

Yeah,

Jacob (47:46):
I thought that was a done deal and then all of a sudden it
just never, nothing happenedwith it.

Social media went back to CJ Gardner Johnson.
Some must have happened at thetrademarking or something.

Jacob (47:55):
He went to pay for all them jerseys.

yeah, he didn't.
Yeah, he didn't want to buyOslo's jerseys back, although he
went to a new team.
So, yeah.
So, all right, quickly.
We're going to just touch realquickly.
Just so.
This is mostly just informationfor the listeners in case you're
wondering who's going to be upfor free agents.
So this is our upcoming freeagents.
I'm, I'm not going to list allof them cause it's quite

(48:18):
extensive list, but you know,the big ones that I've noticed
are Tim Patrick, Zaitler,Ansariki.
Derek Barnes, Carlton Davis, ifhe's you know, he's going to be
out for a new contract.
You got, and Dan Skipper JohnKaminski is on that list too.
So like I said, there's plentyof others.
Any of those stick out to you,Morgan, that, Hey, we need to
resign this guy.

There's a couple that I'd like to kick the tires
on, but that's, that's going tobe some good conversations this
offseason, right?
Like, I would love to bringCarlton Davis back because in my
opinion, there was a good stintof the season there where he was
one of the best corners infootball, if not the best just
from watching on tape.
Right.
But I wonder how much is itgoing to like, when is he going
to be priced out of coming backto Detroit?

(49:01):
Because I do think, you know,there's some other stuff that
could happen this offseasonwhere they could hand out some
more big contracts.
I'd like to, but I don't know,Zeitler, yes, but then could you
get a little cheaper, you know,sign a veteran, plug in
mahogany, you know, and spend,you know, because there's,
there's going to be some otherplaces I'd like them to shore up
some depth to, because theycan't really, I've kind of come

(49:24):
to the conclusion they're notgoing to get rid of Glasgow
because they're, it's, it's like2 million less to not have
Glasgow than to keep him, ifthat makes sense from the dead
money standpoint.
So, yeah.
there's a couple I would, youknow, the first five I would at
least at least have aconversation about.
I'm done with Malifanwu.
I don't know about y'all.
Done.

He can't say on the field, but

Jacob (49:46):
That's the thing about iffy, right?
I actually like if he has aplayer, but I mean, you know, if
you're never available, thenwhat do you, it's also one of
those things.
I mean, how much of a contractis he really going to be
commanding same as Dan skipper?
Like, you know, you like Danskipper in the locker, but
everything like that, obviouslyhe's not like a top player, but
I mean, he's out there and he,he's going to be cheap, right?

(50:07):
There's not going to be any kindof, you know, we're not battling
a bunch of teams for hisservices.

Skipper will get the veteran minimum.
Malifanwu, someone could pay himjust because I do, like you
Jacob, I like, he has a greatskill set, unique.
He can do a lot of things on theback end near the line of
scrimmage, but watched that manrun sprints for like 20 minutes.
In my seat when they, they wereplaying the commanders and then,
you know, you had Marie Norrisout there and Jean Oliver, and I

(50:34):
was like, what do we do?
If he come on, man, could you,could you see him running on the
sideline?
Jacob or Jason?

I didn't see was he, I,

there next to him.
I'm like, dude,

yeah,

game.

yeah, what do you, what's your thoughts on
Zeitler, Jacob?
I'm curious what you think about

Jacob (50:50):
Well, I mean, it's funny because Morgan said about like
the, you know, that's what wedid last year with Jonah, right?
We were like, well, we don'twant to pay Jonah that much.
So let's look for a veteran andthen here comes Zeitler, you
know, much more affordable on aone year deal.
You know, do we bring him backon a one year deal?
Is he gonna be asking for moremoney?
I'm not sure.
It's kind of one of thosethings, almost all these guys

(51:11):
that we have, it's like if theprice is right, you know, I
won't say all of them, but quitea few of the price is right.
I would be more than willing tohave them back for sure.

I like Barnes.
I'm hoping Barnes comes back.
Especially now with Shep beingdefensive coordinator.
I'm Barnes may see that, but,you know, also I could see, you
know, if I don't know if theyneed any help over in the jets,
you might, you might see Derekjump ship over to Aaron Glenn
over there.

Jacob (51:36):
Yeah,

for me.
The Zeitler thing isinteresting.
I, if we could get him to asimilar cost of what we got him
this year, I'd almost be apt tobring him back.
And then you put mahogany, youlet him in Glasgow, fight it
out.
And if, I mean, if Glasgow isyour top backup for the guard
that's I'm, I'm, I'm okay withthat.

(51:58):
That that's actually a prettygood deal.

Jacob (52:00):
right.
You can move around.

exactly.
He's also your backup center.
So, I mean, that gives you alittle more flexibility.
I mean, we're putting a lot onmahogany shoulders.
He's played, you know, a coupleof games, but the growth he made
in the short term this season,and Morgan, if you're saying
you're all in, I know you watch,watch plenty of films.
So I, I, I'm going to trust youon this.

(52:22):
You know, he's got to get intotheir off season of growth and.
And he's going to have a fulloff season last year.
You know, he didn't, I mean, hemissed the beginning part of the
season and, you know, mini camp.
he would have been able to playthat, he might've might, he
might've passed Glasgow, the wayGlasgow was playing at the end

(52:42):
of the year.
He might have done that.

No doubt.
I think like you can plug him ina left guard.
If you don't bring Sightlerback, put him in at right guard
and just mash people to deathwith Pena because he's nasty.
I like watching his tape isgood, man.
He, the past sets will getcleaned up, but they're already
pretty good to be honest withyou at the guard.
And then he just.
He looks for work.
He does it all.
I'm all in on mahogany.

(53:05):
I'm usually not very hyperbolic.
I try to like, I'm always like,well, let's see, you know, get a
bigger sample size.
saw his tape at Boston collegeand I was like, okay.
And then he, the againstWashington even I was like,
yeah, he's he's ready to go.
That's a good one.

Jacob (53:20):
Right,

I could see another situation where you move
Graham back to side, put himbetween Pinay and Frank and then
Mahogany on the left and.
I mean, everybody looks betterwhen you're between Frank and
Panay, right?
So, you know, you could see us,I could see a situation where if
they don't bring Zyler back,maybe they move Graham over back

(53:42):
over to the right side.
because two years ago, he lookedpretty good in that spot, and
maybe that's because he wasbetween Frank and and then, you
know, like I said, mahogany overthere next to Taylor would be
all right.
So, it'll be interesting.
I think Anzorica is another onethat, especially depending on
what happens with McNeil, like,and how much, I think you're

(54:02):
right, Jacob, it's how much isAnzorica

Jacob (54:04):
right.

But, you know, I thought that's where he got
played pretty well this year,considering that it's almost as
rookie season, right?
He missed the first, you know,years he played sporadically,
but he was mostly injured.
So this is his first full seasonof playing.
So he might see a, like thesecond year jump next year, you
know?
And, and I guess I was justhappy that he was able to play
it the whole year and much stayuninjured.

I like Levi.
I think be nice to bring himback, but he's one, I'm almost
like, I think he's going to gobecause I think someone will pay
him.
You know, and the

Jacob (54:38):
Right.

lions, you know, you have reader under contract,
you, you pay the liam, you'regoing to pay Hutch, in my
opinion, this off season.
I think you, maybe that'ssomething they invest in like a
double dip.
I would like them, you know,like they did with a corner last
year.
would love if they like doubledipped at like three technique
this year.
Like just a couple more bodiesor like double dipped at edge or

(55:00):
some guys who have somepositional versatility, because
I just think you need to addbodies to that room you got

Yep.

there, obviously a superstar, a star.
know, and some nice pieces addsome more,

Jacob (55:14):
And yeah, it still wasn't enough, right?
Couldn't overcome all theinjuries and everything, like,
you know, we need more depth,right?

star Wars meme more when he's

Jacob (55:24):
Yeah.
Yeah.

I.
I'm hoping that we can't haveanother, like 20 people on
injured reserve next year.
I mean, I'm, you know,

Jacob (55:35):
I mean, nobody can really, you know, the fact that
we got as far as we did anddidn't as well and had as great
of a season with that is, youknow, we'll talk about that
forever.

And I do think the defense was broken.
I think the only thing that gaveus a little bit of a glimmer of
a hope was Sam Darnold being apumpkin.
It fooled me a little bit.
It fooled me.
I was like, well, maybe

Yeah.
Well, I mean, but our offensealways gave us a chance and it
just didn't when we turned overthe ball five times, we
couldn't, even if we had to justturned it over two times in that
commander's game, we definitelyhad a shot, you know,

even

Jacob.
we're two scores, you know,

take away the pick six or the first fumble.
I think that game is different.
But it's

Jacob (56:18):
Right.
Yeah.

fumble.
It's the first fumble.
They take that away.
We play different on offense.
Jared Goff doesn't get as punchywith the ball and it doesn't
make those decisions that hemade poor decisions.
So before we head out here,there's the you already
mentioned it.
Hutch is up for an extensionthis year.
We also have Kirby's up for anextension.
Jamo could get an extension orwe're going to have to, his

(56:39):
fifth year option would be up.
Josh Pascal and MalcolmRodriguez.
Do you think?
Out of those five, do you thinkI have, I'm going with Hutch is
going to get the extension.
Do you think Kirby's going toget one too?

Oh yeah.
I think they're gonna pay Kirby.
Then you have to turn around andpay BB.
You're just going to have to,that's where Disney and those
guys come into play.
Like make it work.
Stagger the cat pits.
You're going to do what you gotto do.
Be cheap at corner, which issomething they could do.
Which is kind of my point withCarlton earlier.
Like you're gonna have to getcheap somewhere.
But yeah, Hutch is going to geta mega ultra super duper deal.

(57:12):
Like Panay and Ra got I thinkKirby gets paid for sure.
Jamo, I think they pick up theoption and they're like, you
need to do it one more yearbefore we about that.
Bubba, you know,

Yep, I'm, I'm with you there and I think
they're going to do what Hutch,what they did with panacea.
You know, they'll pick up thefifth year option and then tack
it on and then they could spreadthat cap hit or, you know, they
can, like you said, they couldplay with those cap numbers.
You know, offset it with whoeverelse contracts hitting big one
year that they're going to haveto play those numbers, but that
gives an advantage of doing itthis year.

(57:45):
I just, you know, it takes twoto tango Hutch.
Maybe say, Hmm, I might waitanother year and get you know,
get, plus he come off uninjured.
So who knows?
I mean, he, if you'd have beendefensive player this year, he
would have gotten majorly paid.

Do it

Yeah.

I would

Yeah.
Yeah.

overpay a little bit now and feel feel better
about yourself after he breaksoff a DPOY, know, award next
year.

Exactly.
Yep.
So it'll be interesting.
We'll have plenty of time totalk about free agents after the
season.
You know, and just the previewof something that we got coming
up February 17th is a Monday onTuesday.
We're going to we're going toinvite Morgan on Migo's going to
come on.
We're going to do what we call afancy play draft.
We're going to pick our.
We're each, we're going to goround robin, kind of like a

(58:32):
fancy draft.
Each of us got to be able topick a play and we're going to
build our best five plays.
And then you listeners, we'regoing to ask you to vote on who
do you think come up with thebest set of plays.
So just some fun to do in theoff season and we'll see how it
goes.
I have full faith that I'm goingto be better than Jacob.
I don't know about

Jacob (58:52):
you're last for sure.

No

Jacob (58:53):
By a mile.

by a mile.
No, no, not going to happen.

Jacob (58:58):
20, so we don't have to worry about it anyway.

right.
It's all Jared Goff Jared Goffrushes.
So I'll

Jacob (59:05):
Yeah, right.

The vanilla big highlights.

Yeah, exactly.
Before we head out of here, Ijust, the day after the season
ended with Washington or likewhen the podcast came out, I got
some really nice notes.
One was from you, Morgan.
That's, that was really nice.
That made me feel good that likeit was cathartic to hear this
episode.
So I'm sure you were not alonein that.
It was cathartic for Jacob and Ito talk about it that day, like

(59:30):
after the day, after theWashington thing, we, you know,
we are able to, I mean, itwasn't something I really
generally look forward totalking about, but I did feel
better afterwards.
So thank you for getting.
For reaching out to me more,cause that makes me feel good.
Like, Hey, we're actually doingsome good here.
And I had Cody reached out tous, our longtime listener.

(59:50):
And you know, he's had somereally nice things to say, and
I've heard from a couple morepeople.
So I just want to say, anybodythat reached out to us, thank
you for doing that.
It makes us feel good that, youknow, helping in some way.
I, cause, I like to build, tobuild a community and this is a
safe space to government.
We can, you know, talk about thelines and, you know, be
truthful, but also we don't haveto be negative.

(01:00:13):
We can be hopeful and, and, andsee you know, see where this
thing's going.
It was a successful season.
I know we wanted to get further,but with all the injuries, I
mean, we could be in SanFrancisco and they didn't even
make the playoffs, right?
We were number one seed.
So we have things to be proudof.
Winning 15 games is a crediblefeat for the Lions.

(01:00:35):
So Morgan, you working onanything with Miko this week or
next couple of weeks?

Morgan Cannon (01:00:40):
Just bottling up the you know, the coaching
search and then we have our freeagency preview series starting
on pride of Detroit dot com,which is always a good one.
You know, the staff will pickdifferent ones to write about.
So look at that.
And yeah, before we know it,it'll be free agency, new league
year and then rolling right intothe draft.
So I'm

Jason Harwood (01:01:00):
Yeah.

wait, man.
To

Jacob (01:01:02):
For sure.

Yeah.
right, Jacob.
Anything, any parting shotsbefore we take off here?

Jacob (01:01:08):
No, man, I'm good.
Just you know, like we saidbefore, the sky is not falling.
Don't call for golf's head andeverything and act like, you
know.
You gotta act like we've beenhere before, right?
We made it to the NFCChampionship game last year.
It's not the way we want it toend, but for 31 teams, they're
gonna have this feeling, right?
So,

Yeah.

Jacob (01:01:28):
be okay.

y'all's point, look

Jacob (01:01:29):
The window is not closed,

Yep, exactly.
Jacob.
Look at teams like

Yeah.

goes on and on.
Go look at their, you know, theplayoff resumes and it's a lot
of sour grapes, man.
So buckle up, go read thatarticle that I wrote.
It's gonna

Yeah.

Maybe they'll win a couple of Super Bowls and
that'll make it worth it.

Jacob (01:01:50):
right?

Exactly.
I read that article again.
I just like listening to ourpodcast was cathartic.
Reading that article for me wasjust another, you know, just a
level headed look at thepositives of the season and
common sense approach to likewhat you said, Jacob, 31 other
teams, 31 teams are disappointedevery year.

(01:02:12):
You know, we, you got to justlook at it.
And we have a lot, we have a lotto be looking.
Forward to, you know, we stillhave Dan Campbell.
Anytime we have Dan Campbell,Brad Holmes at the top of this
thing, I'm happy.
And Sheila's doing her thingtoo.
She's, got it.
And we're, you know, we didn'tlose Chris Spielman to the Jets.
So he's, he's back to,

we didn't, right?
He's Yeah, he's still

yeah, he's saying, you know, I wonder if
they just called him in to learna little bit more about Aaron
Glenn, you know,

say listen.
Yeah,

You know, Rick, Rick Spielman was part of that
committee, brought Chris in,like, you know, tell us, tell us
a little bit about Aaron that,you know, stuff we don't know.
Cause you know, if you didn'tknow, his brother was part of
the search committee for GM andcoach.
So Chris Spielman's brother was.
All right, well, boys, this hasbeen a good podcast.

(01:03:02):
I'm happy to have you guysaboard.
We got Superbowl next week.
Jacob, you and I will talkSuperbowl, predicts a little bit
on Superbowl, you think?

Jacob (01:03:09):
I guess.

I

Jacob (01:03:11):
One of these teams has to win, right?
So,

exactly.
Well, if I can't, if I can'tenjoy the Super Bowl, at least I
could enjoy making fun of yourpicks or something like that.
Jacob?

Jacob (01:03:22):
who lost this year in grip picks?

Yeah.
I don't know.
I, I

Jacob (01:03:25):
Yeah, well, okay.
Running back.

Jacob, are you bringing up last

Jacob (01:03:29):
Eh, season's not over yet.

All right.
All right.
For Morgan, Jacob, I'm Jason.
Thanks for joining us and we'll,we'll talk to you soon.
Go Lions.

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E58: Lions' Offseason Beginnings: Coaching Losses and Gains

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