E60: The Non-"Super" Bowl and How It Relates to the Lions Future

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jason Harwood (00:41):
Welcome to Talking Grit.
You can find us on Twitter atTalking Grit Pod.
I'm Jason Harwood and I'm yourawesome co host.
And with me is the generallyacceptable Jacob Litten.

Jacob (00:53):
You could barely get that sentence, no?

it's now the off season for all 32 teams.
So we're back to zero and zero.
It's a new league year.
Free agency begins March 12th.
But for right now, we got somestuff we could talk about.
The NFL awards were last week.
And there were some commentsfrom a certain former lion
safety that I want to get youropinions on Jacob, but I don't

(01:16):
know if you remember, but therewas a big game yesterday.
I got to watch it.
So before we get to talk aboutthe game, I want to know your
setup.
Who are you watching the gamewith?
Are you doing it at home?
What's going on?

Jacob (01:27):
What game are you referring to?
My season ended a couple weeksago.

yeah.
Talk about this other game, youknow, for the NFL game.

Jacob (01:34):
Oh, that's right.
Yeah.
No, I

for two cities, right?

Jacob (01:38):
Right?
Two cities we don't care for themost, but that's okay.

Mm

Jacob (01:42):
No, chill.
Watch it at home as I generallydo, you know, sometimes some
family members have Super Bowlparties.
So sometimes we go out there Ithink I told you I mentioned
this before I just can't I wantto watch the football game I
want to be into the game.
There's too much other talkingThere's too many questions asked
of me like outside of what thismeans what that means, you know

(02:05):
commercial talk You know,sometimes good.
You can talk about it duringhalftime.
Generally don't like the idea ofSuper Bowl parties.
So this is a good one.
We, you know, made a bunch ofdifferent snacks and stuff.
Hung it out the house.
Washed it with J.
J.
and Milo.

What's your best snack that you had?

Jacob (02:23):
The best snack?
So I actually make these they'recalled gyozas.
I don't know why they're calledthat, but that's just what I've
been told.
It's like a wonton wrapper withmozzarella cheese and garlic
salt.
So it's kind of like a variationof a cheese stick.
It's always a crowd pleaser.

Yeah,

Jacob (02:39):
Of course, there was no crowd, it was just me and JJ,
but yeah.
No, it was good.

That's awesome.

Jacob (02:45):
Jeremy probably would not appreciate them, but

Yeah.
The mozzarella sticks.

Jacob (02:49):
yeah.

he would say something else now.
Yeah, we usually have like asmall group of family members
over my, my uncle Bob, thatcomes over so much fun to watch
a football game with cause he'sfun to pick on.
He never wins at the squares,but he buys a bunch of squares.
So it's always fun to like seethem, see him almost win and
then not win at the last second.

(03:11):
so.
And he's just a generally funguy to be around, but he fell.
So he wasn't able to come.
So that was kind of a bummer.
My grandma did come over, lovesports.
She won one of the squares.
So that was really cool.
Why youngest Bradley won one ofthe squares and at my house,
whoever's at the house, we allchip in five bucks and then we
split the number of squaresevenly.

(03:33):
And then for house fun, we'llbuy a instant scratch off
ticket.
For the winner of a, you know,the quarters.
So you get the, you know, onequarter of the pot, and then you
also get a free scratch offticket.
Well, Bradley won like 15 buckson the one scratch off and that
are 15 bucks cash.
And then scratch off the lotteryto get one another 25 bucks on a

(03:54):
scratch off.
So that was good for him.
So we,

Jacob (03:58):
day for him.

We, we usually have the same group.
We had Sarah's uncle come overwhich was different for us.
And then the boys had a friendover, but.
They really, they really payattention to the game and it's,
it's, it's, it's a fun time.
I'm like you, I like to be ableto sit and watch the game and
like dissect it.
And, but this Superbowl was kindof different cause I was really

(04:20):
indifferent to both of theseteams and, you know, luckily for
me, it wasn't competitive.
So if I wanted to like be fullyinvested in whatever, and there
was distractions, it didn'treally matter to me.
Game was over by halftime.

Jacob (04:32):
Yeah, sometimes like, you know, I'll I'll watch the
commercials and stuff like thattoo, just to see which one's the
best kind of the way the gamewas going.
Commercial was just like anyother commercial time for me.
So I don't know if you guys,you're at a party, so I'm sure
everybody's excited about thecommercials or whatever,
watching them, but.
Here, I've, you know, I'd onlywatched a handful of them.
I don't even know which oneswere good.

I don't even know.
The only thing that was likefreaky was the hat were like
the, do you remember the hat,like the skin hats, like they
were the to be commercials.
Did you see

Jacob (05:00):
No.
No.
I didn't see that.

I, we couldn't even hear the sound.
Cause like, there was just a lotof like talking going on just
conversation or whatever.
And so we weren't really payingattention to the commercials as
close as we use.
But like.
The 2B one, I don't even knowwhat, it was just a weird ad.
Like the people had like headswere hats.

(05:22):
I don't, I don't know.
The hats look like skin.
It was really weird.
Look it up.
It's, it's freaky.
There was like three of them.

Jacob (05:28):
That's the thing about the Super Bowl commercials, too,
is like, you know, back, like,years ago, you never saw these
things ahead of time.
You, they debuted that day.
Now, a bunch of them are like,you can see them leaked online.
Or, like you just said, if Iwanna see that commercial, it'd
take me two seconds to look itup and watch it.
Yet, they still cost the peoplemillions of dollars.

8 million for 30 seconds, they said 8 million for
30 seconds of ads.
That's man.
I can't

Jacob (05:54):
Crazy.

fathom.
I can't even fathom that.
So all right.
What'd you think about the gamein general?

Jacob (06:05):
thought the Eagles were going to get it done, I thought
the defense was probably goingto be too much, and the Chiefs,
outside of the playoffs, justhadn't looked very impressive to
me this year, and I did notexpect it to go The way that it
did you know, I thought theywere going to hang in there for
a little while.
Maybe there's going to be somemore controversy at the end, for
it to be 34 to nothing at onepoint is crazy.

(06:29):
And then you're talking like,okay, are they going to score?
Is this going to be, you know,the biggest blowout of all time
that, you know, was decideddefinitely, you know, halfway,
if it wasn't already decided athalftime, you know, midway
through the third quarter, whenthey still weren't able to do
anything and gave up morepoints, it was over at that
point.
Right?

So I've, what at right before the half like less
than two minutes, or it might'vebeen around the two minute mark,
the chiefs get the ball back andit was 17, nothing at that
point.
And I, and then chiefs weregoing to get the ball after
halftime.
So my thought was like, chiefsare going to score, you know,
and then they could score andthen this could be a game, but
when Mahomes threw that pick andthat was a great interception

(07:12):
down at the, man, that was agreat catch.

Jacob (07:14):
Yeah.
Zach Bond, the linebreaker.

yeah, and he, that was, that was a great,
great catch.
And you know, they scored, I waslike, Oh man, now it, now it's.
over and then, but the only talkwas that we had at our house
was, are they setting up myhomes for the, you know, the,
one of the greatest, it wasn't28 to three yet.
So, you know, we couldn't

Jacob (07:35):
right.

comeback, but it could, it was getting close, you
know, to the point where, youknow, my homes is going to top
Brady's comeback while Brady iscalling the game.

Jacob (07:44):
Right?
Right?
Hey, something to think about.

Yeah, just didn't happen.
Yeah, it was.
you know, like I said, there wassome conversation going on and
my grandma at one point goes gotquiet at one second.
She goes.
Oh, there are announcers in thisgame Like as a sarcastic comment
and I said, I looked at him likeat least we don't have to listen
to tom Brady talk and she goesyou got that right?
So she

Jacob (08:08):
Yeah.

of tom brady She thinks he's arrogant.
She does not like tom brady.

Jacob (08:12):
Oh.
We got the Michigan thing.
We have to, we have to beimpartial to Tom Brady, at
least.

Yeah, I'll

Jacob (08:19):
I can say I like Tom Brady now.
He's not the best announcer,though.

no he's

Jacob (08:24):
it's weird, he's already right here in the Super Bowl
again.
Like,

Yeah, well the thing is that like you know, for
quarterbacking, he started atthe lowest rung, right?
He was backup, right?
Nothing expected of him.
And then when he comes now atthe broadcast booth, they bring
him in as the number one.
they, and not only did theybring him as number one, they
unseat someone who's fairlypopular with Greg Olson.

Jacob (08:50):
know he was very good.

Yeah.
And, and so that that didn'tsuit Tom Brady wealth because
it's like Tom Brady is notsomeone in life that seems like
he was just giving, ever giveneverything, you know, even at
Michigan, he had to really workat it.
Six round draft pick for thePatriots had to work at it to
get to where he's at.

(09:12):
And it just seems like this job,was just given and.
You know, that, that doesn'tleave a good taste.
You can't root for him in thatcase.
If he'd have been like the thirdor fourth that probably would
have suited him better to belike the third or fourth analyst
for a year or two like find hisstyle and like get better at

(09:34):
what he's doing.
But yeah,

Jacob (09:36):
but I think you're expecting too much out of these
announcers.
It's just, you know, it's aboutthe name, right?

yeah,

Jacob (09:43):
Obviously, Tom Brady is going to have good insight, but
it's more about the fact thathis name is Tom Brady.

yes.

Jacob (09:48):
That's the same reason why you have the analysts on,
you know, the sports center orESPN shows all the different
things.
It's just kind of the names areget thrown out there and it's
not, you know, I guess the onlygood example I can think of is a
basketball example.
So I don't even know if you getthat, but like Kendrick Perkins
as a basketball player.

yeah.

Jacob (10:06):
Terrible, terrible takes all the time.
Just really weird things that hesays, never anything good.
And he's been one of like thetop analysts or whatever for, I
don't even know how long I, andI think that's ESPN.
I don't know what show he's onor anything, but it's like, if
he wasn't a former basketballplayer, if he didn't have the
name and everything like that,and he wasn't even that notable
of a basketball player, but it'sjust one of those things, you

(10:28):
know, they'd rather havesomebody like that than a
nobody, even if the nobody knowswhat they're talking about.

Yeah, I've also, you know, when we started back
in May and we're still trying toget like a Twitter, you know,
thing going, you get the socialmedia thing going to just get
your name out there.
I just have trouble.
I don't, we don't have like, Iour takes may be wrong, but we
don't have like ridiculoustakes.
I don't feel like, or like stickto our guns, even when we're

(10:57):
proven wrong about something.
And I feel like that's what ittakes to either,

Jacob (11:02):
Yeah,

know, to get, to get out there.
I look at like what Jeremy orJustin Rogers, you know, they
responded to some of these badtakes or Woodward sports, you
know, they have like terrible,terrible takes.
Right.

Jacob (11:16):
and that's how they got there, though,

yes.

Jacob (11:18):
right?
I mean, that's how they get thefollowing is by having
ridiculous.

don't want to ever be in that spot where

Jacob (11:23):
No,

I, I get more followers or more interactions
because I'm saying somethingstupid.
I'd rather be known for, I'drather have 10

Jacob (11:32):
you'll do that on your own.

than a thousand other people know I'm stupid,
you know, I don't know, butyeah, so I don't know.
So let's, let's,

Jacob (11:41):
Let's

know,

Jacob (11:43):
let's talk about the bad take, though.
Do you want to go over that?
Or

let's do that.
Let's talk about bad takes.
I'm going to let you introduceit.
Go ahead.

Jacob (11:50):
so the hot topic on Twitter right now, because we've
been talking about the SuperBowl, the Eagles, obviously
defensive performance.
They're wanting to, you know,trade as many picks as necessary
to get miles Garrett on the teambased on how the Eagles played.
And that's something that I amnot, you know, not on board
with, but how do you feel aboutit?

I don't.
with that at all.
I mean, if we got miles Garrett,I think both you and I would be
excited for the next season,right?
We would be

Jacob (12:20):
Absolutely.

to give up capital to get him draft capital
to get him.
Number two, we're theopportunity of maybe resigning.
Some of our players are having,you know, financial, flexibility
is gone because miles Garrett'sgoing to up some of that space.
I don't know.
Miles Garrett.

(13:05):
Like as a teammate, right?
I'm not around him.
I don't the Browns.
I know that he's a heck of afootball player.
I have a feeling that he wouldprobably mesh with the team, but
that is another thing is I, Idon't know how, you know, I
don't know if he's a big alphaand you got Aiden on the other
side, right?
I mean, that's.

(13:27):
You know, you're going to haveto deal with that.
And Aiden is in this town isgoing to be number one.
I don't care what miles Garrettdoes.
Aiden's going to be number one.
And just the Michigan standpointand just from the area and all
that stuff.
So that is another thing todifficult to deal with.
The other thing that.

(13:47):
And we don't have to go intodepth here, but probably Detroit
goes I think Morgan and Miko gothrough this is the Browns.
We're going to have a, like ahuge cap hit at the trade miles
Garrett.
They have no incentive to tradehim other than miles Garrett
saying, I'm not going to playfor you.
And they're, they have to getsomething.
They take.

(14:08):
already in cap hell because ofthe Deshaun Watson thing.
They're not going to take onanother 30 million in like dead
cap money to get, you know, toget rid of a Good player.

Jacob (14:18):
They're best player, right?

so I just don't, I think it's all a big pipe
dream.
I think you'd have a betterchance to get Max Crosby than
you would Miles Garrett, to behonest with you.
I don't think either are goingto come here.
other thing that I think that

Jacob (14:32):
fell out when you said you don't think either who, who
else did you say?

I said, Max Crosby, I

Jacob (14:37):
Right, right.
Okay.

of those guys are going to end up here, but I, I
would

Jacob (14:42):
We would welcome either of them.

Yes.
Oh, them, but I think thatthere's opportunity costs for
getting them here.

Jacob (14:51):
Yes.
It's not about the player.
Obviously, if you're like, Hey,you, do you want miles Garrett?
Do you want max Crosby?
Of course we want them.
It's the price that it's goingto cost to get them here and
keep them here.

Mm hmm.

Jacob (15:03):
And you know, That money has to come somewhere.
The, the draft fix going away ishuge.

Yes.

Jacob (15:11):
And that's something that I don't think people, you know,
they just see the result andthey don't really realize that
the, the Eagles defense wasbuilt on draft picks.
Yeah.
I mean, they're dominant, butthey've got like their defensive
line.
Three of the four of them werefirst round picks for the
Eagles.
They're defensive backs, I mean,obviously they got Slate in the
trade with us, but, you know,the rookies, those are just this

(15:35):
year, first and second roundpicks.
They've been working on buildingthis defense, and it worked.
So, you know, wouldn't yourather build through the draft,
especially the way we've beendrafting?
We're right there, we're righton the cusp, we don't need to,
we don't need to get Yes, an allstar like that would be nice,
but if that means we're missingout on potentially two, three,

(15:57):
four you know, valuable playersover the next like four or five
years.
We can't do that.

Yeah, not if you want to be a consistent winner.
And see, that's what I think,matter how good you are or
whatever you have, there's acertain amount of luck that goes
into winning the super bowl,whether it's injury, injury luck
facing a team that has, youknow, some sort of bad luck.
I mean, there, there is.
A form of luck, you know, youcould be the best team, but you

(16:23):
might run into, know, the chiefsran into the Eagles they just
blew them away.
Right?
I mean, there's just sometimesyou just run into something that
you can't come up against or youhave an injury at the wrong
time.
So for me, it's like, if I'mgoing to go.
to a lottery.
I could buy 10 tickets to thisseason.
That's the miles Garrett, right?

(16:44):
I'm going to buy 10 tickets forthis one lottery pick this one
season.
And then the next nine years aregoing to be bad.
Or I could buy lottery tickets,one for each year.
And then, you know, I have abetter chance of winning the
Super Bowl because ultimately,for me, I just want that Super
Bowl.
And I think I'd rather haveseasons getting to the Super

(17:05):
Bowl rather than blowing it inone or two years and then having
like what the Saints are goingthrough or the Browns, like we
just said, cap hell.
And then you're, then you're,you know, struggling or
whatever, and what's going tokeep us afloat is signing our
players and then drafting cheaprookies that we will develop
into good players that, thatdeserve a second contract.

Jacob (17:28):
That's the key to success,

The people that just want miles gear right now
are impatient to me.
That's the way I look at it.
Right.
I mean, is that, do youcategorize it as that?
Like we just need to win now.

Jacob (17:43):
right?
Oh, I think they would have tobe if that's your, if that's
your thought process is to tradelike the 2 1st round on the 2nd
or whatever, if you're trading,if you're someone trading that
many graphics for miles Garrett,you just want to win now.
And you're 1 of those people.
I'm going to put all my eggs inthe basket and, you know, we're
going all in for this next year.
Hopefully we get it done andthen we'll be back to, you know,

(18:06):
mid range, struggling cap hell.
You know, we want to keep thewindow open for as long as
possible and that's not how youdo it.

I agree.
And what, and as long as we gotBrad Holmes making those picks
and that front office makingthose picks, I want to keep as
many draft picks as we, as wecan.
I mean, I don't mind tradingaround and moving things around
and getting your guy like theydid with Terry on.
You're not giving up, you know,you're giving up third rounders
or, you know, later to get yourguy.

(18:36):
I, I'm okay with that.
also might be this year where wedon't use the first round pick
and we trade back to get morecapital for next year, if we
want to bump up and get a guy, Icould go either way on that,
especially when you're draftedlate in the first round, not too
much difference between thoselate first round guys and second
round second round picks, get anextra third round pick, getting

(18:57):
an extra You know, chance ofgetting a, you know, a starter
or a player, and it's not likewe have a lot of holes on this
team that we need to just fillright now, know, we'll see after
free agency, if we get Zylerback, you know, our offensive
lines.
Barely set, you know, there, ouroffense will be, there won't be
really anybody to other, youknow, maybe sign in Tim Patrick

(19:18):
back, which that could be donebefore for agency.
So we'll

Jacob (19:22):
Right.
There's not too many spots tofill.
There's not too many openingshere.
It's about getting depth andwe're not going to have another
season with the injuries that wehad this year either.

Yeah,

Jacob (19:33):
I mean, that was a fluke.

that was, and it, I mean, the fluky thing was, it
was all on the defensive side.
I mean, it was a lot for thewhole team in general.
Know, we could have next yearwhere the offense gets hit a
little bit more.
And we, you know, we were fairlylucky other than Khalif and Demo
going down.
And we had some, you know, spotstuff on the offensive line, but
nothing, you know, that was lessthan more than a game or two.

(19:56):
You know, we, we were fairlygood on the offensive side of
the ball.
It's just that defense just gotdecimated, you know, linebacker,
especially.
And then our line really justtook it.
Our secondary was all rightuntil.
Carlton got hurt.
So,

Jacob (20:11):
Yeah.

Yeah, the other thing that I wanted to talk to
you about was the, and this gamewas the refs that could lead up
to this was like, the chiefs arefully favored and by the refs
and the leagues got it, youknow, they have their script and
they're, they want the chiefs toget there.
Didn't appear that way.
Although the first foul, wetalked a little bit at work

(20:32):
today.
You want to talk about thatoffensive pass interference
first, before we

Jacob (20:35):
Right, right.
I mean the timing of it,especially you had a couple of
the media members, even askinglike my homes and Travis Travis
Kelsey about.
Benefiting from referee callsand everything like that.
And you could tell it kind ofgot under their skin, you know,
having to answer questions likethat and having to deal with
this, you know, what they say isa ridiculous notion that the

(20:56):
refs are on their side.
And then the very first, youknow, like big critical play of
the games fourth down, theythrow a deep and they get
offensive pass interferencecalled on the Eagles.
It did not help that case rightaway.
You got people screaming, youknow, you can't call that.
And of course, it's for thechiefs and blah, blah, blah.
I've said this before.

(21:17):
I know I said it to you.
They do not call offensive passinterference enough.
If you're going to call it asmuch as you do on the defense,
you've got to call it on theoffense.
They you know, yes, there's handfighting going on way too many
times.
They let the offensive receiverget that last shove to create
separation to make the catch.
That happens way too much andthis time they probably would

(21:38):
have let it slide If not for itbeing right in his helmet, it
was right in his face And that'sthe only reason I think they
called that because they do havea little bit of the fighting
It's it was aj brown, right?
It just shoves him right in theface mask and then you know goes
and makes the catch was it passinterference?
Yes, that was offensive passinterference.
Is it tough to call that onfourth down the first drive of

(21:59):
the super bowl?
Yes, but I mean, a penalty issupposed to be a penalty no
matter when it happens in thegame.
What were your thoughts though?
Like, live did you think it wasa foul?
Like, before we saw the replaywhen you were just watching.

replay, I was, I thought, I thought it'd be on
the Chiefs just because you seea flag like that go out.
I thought, Oh, that's on the, onthe Chiefs.
Then they did the replay, sawit, you know, AJ Brown fully
extended his arm right into theface mask and the Chiefs
probably flopped a little bit,like throwing his head back as
violently as he did.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

(22:31):
But I'm okay with, honestly, ifthey called that game, I'd be
fine with that, with that typeof penalty because you're right,
the offense will create extraseparation and they, know, you
got to be pretty egregious forit to be called offensive pass
interference.
The Lions got a fair amount ofoffensive pass interference

(22:51):
calls like the opposition.
We were the benefit of those,but most of them, they were
almost all pick plays.

Jacob (22:58):
Right, right.

it's hardly ever called in a situation where it's
a one on one, especially in adeep shot It's out of 100 times
if not more Called on thedefense but

Jacob (23:10):
That terrible one on Thanksgiving against, er, with
Vildor.

Yes.

Jacob (23:16):
Stuff like that.
Like, are you kidding me?
Why?

Yeah.

Jacob (23:20):
can't touch them if you're on defense, but if you're
on offense, you get a fullextension.

Yeah Well, if AJ Brown would have hit him, I
think you're right if he hitshim in the shoulder and does
that same thing?
They probably don't call that

Jacob (23:31):
Right, right.
Even though by rule, that'sstill, you know, full extension
of the arm, it should be PI, butthey don't call that on the
offense.

Mm hmm.
Yeah,

Jacob (23:40):
But that was that was about the only, the only call
the Chiefs had go their waypretty much the whole night.
Outside of those really weirdlike Is that false start that
they kept calling on the fieldgoal?

yeah, and those didn't matter because they kept
they, you know.

Jacob (23:55):
Well, he didn't end up missing and

it.
Yeah.

Jacob (23:57):
drop the next 5 years.

one of my favorite things about the
Superbowl is that, so JakeElliot was the kicker for the
Eagles was Preston's, uh, fancyteam.
And he didn't have a greatregular season.
So every time they got to fieldgoal range, you'd be like, Oh, I
can get three points orwhatever, and Preston would look
at me, he goes, Jake, Elliotsucks.
He's not going to make it.
And it's just so funny.
Just to listen to him talk aboutthat.

(24:21):
And then, yeah, he kept gettingbacked up five yards.
You know, I think going back to,to the rep dude, the chiefs get
benefits calls.
And I, I've seen enough chiefsgames that I do think that they
probably get the benefit of thedoubt.
Sometimes whether that's goingto matter in the game or not, I
don't know.
I think it comes down to, andwe'll talk about this later in

(24:42):
the off season, Jake about, youknow automatic.
First downs, like for adefensive holding or something
like that, you, that couldreally change a drive.
Cause you he hit him prettyhigh.

(25:28):
His hands were up high and theycould have called that.
But they,

Jacob (25:31):
It seemed like that was the main difference, is like,
usually, that's most of thegripe that I feel like people
have, is that Mahomes, you know,the late slides, or you know,
the questionable roughing thepasser when it's like he barely
got hit.
This game, it really seemed likethey were letting them attack
Mahomes, like, they, he, I don'tbelieve they got one call on
him, right?
I didn't see any.

I don't think so.
And

Jacob (25:55):
him,

well, they were able to get to him with four,
which was crazy.
And then yeah, the, yeah, Ididn't really see anything else
that I called questionable now,you know, chiefs fans may beg to
differ with me.
I don't, I don't really don'tknow what's out there, but that
was the most blatant one withhim getting hit in the face.
But I think the previous calls,like they had that one, the
Texans were really the.

(26:18):
They got, the Texans got calledfor roughing the passer and
they, they hit, like thedefenders hit each other and
just went over the top ofMahomes, but yet they called
that.
And you know, that's the type ofcrap that I think the Chiefs get
is they get

Jacob (26:32):
right?

enough of the benefit of the doubt to throw
that flag out there.
And I think the refs, you know,I don't think the NFL is like,
Hey, you need to flag this, but.
It's pretty clear that Mahomesis pretty important for the for
the importance of this game likethe NFL game And so they're the
refs are gonna be quick toprotect him.
We're like Bo Nix or someoneelse Jerr Goff, they're not

(26:57):
gonna get that benefit of thedoubt that Mahomes is

Jacob (27:00):
Huh, we saw.

Yeah,

Jacob (27:02):
Let my homes get cracked in the head on a pick six and
see what happens.

Yeah, no, I probably would have got guy
would have got kicked out of thegame.

Jacob (27:10):
Right.

Be pretty surprised if he didn't

Jacob (27:12):
They'd have made the other team just forfeit.
You can't do that.
You're all out.

They made it clear that I saw a funny meme
that when you know, when thecommanders kept jumping off
sides on Jalen hurts and

Jacob (27:27):
Yeah.

we can, you know, award you, you know, we can
award you a touchdown.
I saw the meme where the guyjust like is moving his hands
together.
You know, like, Oh, I'm going toget this.
It's like chiefs fans fairchiefs players figuring out that
the rest could just award them atouchdown for nothing.

Jacob (27:44):
Right.

It was it was really hilarious.
So yeah, I don't, I, alwaysgoing to be this, I mean, we've
had our fair share of roughgripes as Lions fans of not
getting the benefit of thedoubt.
I think it's really hard to beperfect for these refs, but I
also think that, and I don'tthink there's a script, but I do

(28:06):
think, you know, the NFL makesit clear what's important and
what's, you know, they're notgoing to enforce and they.
They can definitely change thegame really quickly holding call
here and important play.
yeah.
All right.
Do you want to move on to someof the season line season review

(28:28):
stuff?
The season's over now.

Jacob (28:29):
Enough of these other teams.
Let's get back to the Lions.

so we haven't talked, you know, we kind of
held off to the season was overbefore we go through some of our
lines overview stuff.
So first we're going to startwith offensive MVP.
I have it down to three players.
I'm gonna let you go.
Who did you pick for the lionsoffensive MVP this year?

Jacob (28:52):
Offensive MVP, I gave that to Jameer Gibbs.
I only had two on my list.
It was Gibbs and Panay Sewell.
But Gibbs, you know, top five inrushing yards this year, despite
splitting carries.
You know, everyone else on thatlist is like a bell cow running
back.
He had almost a hundred lesscarries than Saquon.
But top five in rushing yards,top three in scrimmage yards.

(29:15):
He led the league in totaltouchdowns.
I mean.
Just a phenomenal season fromGibbs,

Yep.
Yeah.
We really seen him take over.
I mean, Demo started out thegate like really hot and then,
Gibbs was keep a track with himwith the yards just with less
touches.
And then when Demo got hurt, youcould see what Gibbs is full of
potential could

Jacob (29:40):
right?

And, you know, in his second season, getting
almost 2000 all purpose yards,like you said, leading the
league Russian.
Yeah.
He's my offensive MVP too.
My third, you met up in a soul.

Jacob (29:53):
Yep.

offensive lineman's on there.
You know, we can't really talktoo much statistics with him,
although he got sacked more thanhe allowed a sack this year.
So that's pretty, pretty amazingstatistic.
My other one is Jared Goff.
I really, know that he had acouple of spotty games.
He didn't end the season on thegame that we want from him, but

(30:19):
he is, he was better this yearthan he was last year, which I
know we had talked about, like,could he get better signing that
big contract?
Yeah.
And then it's going to beinteresting.
Ben Johnson's gone next year.
that going to mean for golf?
Is he going to be as comfortablewith Morton?
They've already worked together,so I feel good there.
We still have Dan Campbell and.

(30:40):
Based on Dan Campbell'scomments, like he called the
offense, his baby.
So I'm, I, just so curious howmuch his influence on Ben
Johnson, like that chemistrytogether and how much of that
was Ben Johnson, how much ofthat is Dan Campbell and Dan
Campbell, isn't going to besomeone that takes credit, not
that Ben Johnson was stealingcredit, but Dan Campbell's not

(31:02):
going to be like, well, I'm theone that, you know,

Jacob (31:04):
right.
Absolutely.

So I, I like, I'm not as worried about losing bad
Johnson because we have DanCampbell and, you know, on the
defensive side, keeping CalvinShepard, I feel good about that.
So,

Jacob (31:19):
Well, we already said like about the Continuity, you
know if Zytler comes back, butwe are rolling out the same
exact offense We have the samesquad the same guys, you know
And as long as we're notchanging to too much of the play
calls and everything with youknow It's still golf back there.
I'm sure the offensivecoordinator that I brought in
Has been brought in with theintention on we're not gonna be

(31:41):
switching up too much.
You know, we're not gonna bemaking things harder You know,
and like you said, if DanCampbell, if it's his baby, it's
going to be interesting to seehow similar the bears offense
looks to what we were this pastyear.

Yeah, That's going to be a really interesting
dynamic, how all that shakesout, but, you know, losing Ben,
Ben Johnson is, I mean, I wouldrather have him back than to
lose him,

Jacob (32:10):
Right,

having dad Campbell, Morton worked, John
Morton worked with golf a coupleof years ago, he's been working
with Sean Payton.
I mean, that philosophy is goingto be the same.
So I don't think he's going tocome in here and try to change.
Change things for the sake ofchanging things, you know, I,
whether we're going to have asmany trick plays or whatever,
you know, I don't think that wasall Ben Johnson, all the trick

(32:34):
plays.
I think that they all worktogether on that.
Although I don't think wenecessarily need all that.
We're, we're so good on the lineall our skill positions that we
don't need trick plays.
We could just, you know, go outthere and just.
Play our best and beat beatother teams, although I do want
to see the hook and ladder playbecause I think

Jacob (32:53):
right.

so hard to defend.
So I'm hoping that just stayspart of our offense.

Jacob (32:58):
Yeah, no, I mean, they're, they're awesome when
they work, but it's just one ofthose things.
Just like going for on fourthdown like when it works.
It's like that was a great playcall You know, that was awesome.
We love to see it.
And then when it doesn't work,it's like what are you doing?
You know, why'd you let J Mothrow the ball throw an
interception, you know, like itjust inevitable.
That's what it's gonna looklike,

Yep.
Yeah.
Hindsight's always 20, 20 withthose, right?

Jacob (33:21):
right?

do it in this spot?
If it works, they get atouchdown.
You're like, Oh, what a geniuscall.
I would have never thought ofthat.
All right.
Let's move on to defensive MVP.
I think that this one's fairlyobvious.
I'm going to, I'll start out.
It's Kirby Joseph, right?
I mean, Aiden plays a wholeseason.
It's going to be a good argumentbetween the two.
Although I think Aiden probably,if he kept playing the way he

(33:43):
was playing, it'd be hands downAiden.
But Kirby turned into, I mean,he's always been a ball hawk,
but he turned into way moreeffective ball hawk.
And I'm super excited to see hisgrowth into the next year.

Jacob (33:56):
Absolutely.
I mean just can't say enoughpositive things about Kirby.
He went from being really goodYou know, we were hoping he was
gonna take the next step and nowhe went to being great and you
know one of the top safeties inthe league the other guy that I
have on here just to mention,cause I thought you were going
to say Kirby, is Brian Branch.
You know, these are two, BrianBranch was a second round draft

(34:17):
pick.
Kirby Joseph was a third rounddraft pick and they were both
back there.
They made, you know, CJ, GJexpendable, you know, we weren't
worried about getting him backbecause of the play of them last
year and they took it to a wholenother level this year.
Both of them.

I know.
Well, Branch's interceptionlevel fell off about the time
that we stopped being able toget a lot of pressure with just
four,

Jacob (34:39):
Yeah.

around that time, because it'd be interesting to,
see, because I think BrianBranch is.
Such just a good football playerwith good football instincts
that if he could play a truesafety back there and I always
think flashback to the SamDarnold interception where that
first game where he justundercut the route and just made

(35:03):
a great diving interception.
I feel like if we could haveAiden back and get some
pressure, you're going to seemore of that and branch would
have more interceptions branch.

Jacob (35:13):
also had to boost him more after that too.
So he wasn't dropping back asmuch.
He was the one kind of getting,trying to get pressure.
So you're right.

Well, when Carlton went down, then they
start pulling branch you know,the, if he came back.
So if he's playing back there,branch is playing closer to the
line and yes, he's getting morepressure.
I love having Brian branch on myteam, no matter where they have,
cause he's going to be, he'sgoing to make football plays.
Is there, I think, trying tofind Calvin Shepherd is going to

(35:41):
find put him in the right spot.
And I, I just curious what thatright spot is going to be next
year.
Are they going to put it back atthe safety?
Are we going to find someone atsafety to replace him?
You know, are we going to, youknow, if a meek has to go to the
outside, cause we don't haveCarlton, Brian branch could be
back in line to play nickel,depending on what we think of

(36:01):
rake straw.
I mean, there's a lot, a lot ofstuff to look for in the off
season.
And I really look forward tofiguring out where all that's
going to line up.

Jacob (36:09):
Seems like it was only like a month ago we were talking
about this before we went totraining camp.
It's the same thing we weretrying to look at, see how all
the defensive backs looktogether, see where everybody
lined up.

Well, we'll be, you know,

Jacob (36:21):
I already can't wait for another one.

it's like 200 days away for the season to
start.
But, you know, we, these are thetype of thoughts that go through
our mind, right?
We're already looking, right?
We're already like, Ooh, whereare these chess pieces going to
go?
And that's why I like talkingfootball with you, Jacob.
Cause it's, you know, you and Ithink alike and we're like, Oh,
we're already thinking aboutnext year and where we're, we're
going to put these in.

(36:42):
We haven't even free agency yet.
We

Jacob (36:44):
I know,

our chess pieces

Jacob (36:46):
right, right.

All right.
Do you have a favorite game thisseason, this whole season?
Do you, were you able topinpoint one game that you, that
you thought was your favorite?

Jacob (36:58):
I was able to pinpoint one game.
And, you know, it's funnybecause in the grand scheme, it
didn't really even matter asmuch.
It was a, it was an AFCopponent, but my favorite game
was week 11, which was the homegame against the Jaguars.

Okay.

Jacob (37:11):
And you know, that was the game where it was just
everything went right.
Everything that we tried to do,we executed.
The defense stopped him.
The offense was killing it.
We outgained them.
645 to 170.
We were perfect.
Three for three on fourth downsix for 10 on third down, golf
went 24 for 29, 412 yards, fourtouchdowns, Gibbs and demo.

(37:35):
Both had a touchdown and almosta hundred scrimmage yards a
piece.
I'm in raw 11 catches, 161yards, two touchdowns.
Brian branch and Jack Campbellwere lighting people up.
That was on branch.
Got that huge hit on Ingram.
And you know, it was the debutof Zadarius Smith.
You know, we had that wholething with Zadarius.
Then he got a sack in this game.
It was just like everybody ateand it was just the most solid

(37:57):
all around game that we had.

Mm

Jacob (38:00):
So I think that was my favorite one, even though in the
end it didn't, this one didn'treally matter as much, but a 52
to six win at home was huge.
What about you?

man.

Jacob (38:10):
Did you have one, or how many?

so I do have one that I think when I thought back
about it, cause I had to, I loveall our wins.
Right.
I just

Jacob (38:19):
Right.

different reasons.
So I, you know, I'm thinkingback of like the last game of
the year, you know, getting Alexback and just demolishing, you
know, Sam Darnold.
That was great.
You know, your Jaguars game wasgreat.
Blow out the Titans win wasgreat because we scored so many
points, but you know, specialteams was awesome in that game.
There was a lot of just excitingplays in that game.

(38:42):
You know, beating green Bay andgo for it on fourth down when
we're tied to kick the game,winning field, awesome game.
But I.

Jacob (38:49):
These things.
Pick your favorite game, andhe's gonna tell us every single
game that we played this year.

no, I'm a let's do it.
That these are all these leadup, but the one

Jacob (38:57):
Yeah.

liked the most, it was the Seattle Seahawk game.

Jacob (39:01):
Okay.

his Monday night game.
There was big plays in thatgame.
Just so many fun plays, youknow, that was the golf
reception game.
You know, Kirby had that awesomeinterception.
Demo had that great run.
There was.
You know, we had bad luckagainst Seattle the last few
years, so winning on Mondaynight, going into that bye week,
just felt so good, you know, andI, I think the Seattle game was,

(39:25):
was one of my favorite games andit was, you know, it was one of
those games where like, itwasn't a blowout, like the
Jaguars game was fun and theTitans game are fun, but they're
over by halftime.
Seattle Seahawks, we were incontrol for most of that game,
but it was still kind of up inthere where, you know, there was
still competitive and it keptyou interested all the way to

(39:46):
the end.
So I think Seattle, was probablymy favorite game of the year.

Jacob (39:52):
That was the debut of the black jerseys, too, right?
The Motor City, yeah.

Yep,

Jacob (39:57):
was a good one.

yeah,

Jacob (39:58):
only I had that one, and I I knew that you were going to
have 17 games on here, so I hadthe one, the other one was the
second or first one youmentioned, which was the, the
home game against the Vikings.

Yep.

Jacob (40:11):
And just cause you know, the stakes were higher.
We had been hearing for weeksthat the Vikings were the
favorites and that our defensewas not going to show up, that
we weren't going to be able tostop them.
It was essentially round one ofthe playoffs because you know,
the winner got to host theplayoff game, the loser had to
go on the road, the first 14 winteam to go on the road and we
didn't want that.
So, I mean, the stat sheetwasn't as impressive as most of

(40:33):
the other games, but You know,that was a solid dominant game.
We, you know, we won the time ofpossession.
We out gained them.
But yeah, that was huge.
And you know, obviously you wonthe North.

Yeah, exactly.
I mean, that's a that.
was a fun game.
Yeah, I could see that beingnumber one for a lot of, a lot
of people's game of the year.
I think it was just, we followedit up two weeks later with a
stinker.
So it kind of like made thatgame not as important.
Cause yeah, we got the buy, butwe didn't really take advantage
of it.

Jacob (41:04):
I don't think that I get what you're saying.
I don't think that us losingmade that game as much of a
stinker.
I think the Vikings looking likecrap against the Rams made that
like, okay, maybe they weren't.
Maybe, you know, they are who wethought they were,

Yeah.

Jacob (41:18):
you know, just maybe they weren't as good as everyone was
saying.
And maybe that's why, you know,now we're always going to have
that narrative.
It's like, well, you know what,they got crushed anyway against
the Rams.
They didn't look good thereeither.
So I guess it takes some of theexcitement or whatever, you
know, some of thataccomplishment away,

I, I, yeah, I could push back a little bit on,
on that just because he lookedbad in the next game.
I think some of it was thepressure of the situation too.
And, but Sam Darnold had a verygood season.
So it's not like he was crap,you know, I mean, We just put
them in his place and for allintents and purposes, the Rams

(41:58):
might've saw the you know, thatwas the play playbook to knock
Sam Darnold down and they'vealready in the Rams already had
already beat the Vikings earlierin the year or two.

Jacob (42:08):
right?

like, know, Hey, that, that was the advantage we,
we had seen, you know, we hadalready seen Sam Darnold once
Aaron Glenda and the Rams hadalready seen him.
So that's consistency there.
So I can push back a little biton that.
It just, for me, the Vikingsgame.
We, you know, we won, it was agreat game, but then two weeks
later, we didn't take advantageof getting that by and getting

(42:31):
that home playoff game.
So, yeah, exactly.
I mean, I, that's why we don'teven have to say, you know, our
most disappointing game of theyear, because obviously it's
that stupid commander's game.
Yeah, well, it's, it's an easyanswer.

(42:51):
So, Surprise player of the year.
Was there a player that kind ofexceeded expectations for you
this year, Jacob?

Jacob (43:00):
Yeah, I had a couple.
I actually have the first one iskind of like an honorable
mention just because we alreadytalked about him and it was you
know, it was Kirby Joseph, but,you know, that's more so just
because we knew Kirby was goingto be good, but I, you know, I
didn't expect him to bring outthe level that he did.
You know, he said before theseason started, he wanted to
lead the league ininterceptions.
He was able to do that.

(43:21):
You know, if you ever told mebefore that he's going to go
first team, all pro, he's goingto leave the defensive snaps.
Like he's going to be the toprank safety.
I wouldn't have thought thatthat was possible.
I definitely thought he was oneof the best safeties in our
division, but not in the league.
And that's why it's, you know,he was a surprise to me.
Not because I didn't think thathe had that in him necessarily.
I just didn't think we weregoing to see that kind of return

(43:43):
on it right away.
You know, He was consistentlygreat week in and week out, and,
you know, we already talkedabout it, he just had an amazing
year, but I do think that, youknow, it's worth, like, an
honorable mention as a surprise,it's just because we didn't, I
didn't think he was going to bequite up to that level that
quick.

And also we haven't even mentioned like his,
his ability to get his nose intothe running game that, that has
exceeded expectations throughoutthe whole year and something
that they probably, you know,told him, Hey, we're going to
need you to do this.
And he's been shown to do thatbecause Brian Branch will get
his nose up in there and stopthe running game.
Kirby wasn't that type ofplayer, but there are plenty of

(44:24):
times that he was up close tothe line of scrimmage, reading a
running play and either makingthe tackle or, you know.
forcing the play back inside ordoing his job, doing what, what
he should be doing.

Jacob (44:37):
Yes.

So for mine, I mean, I, you know, you mentioned
Kirby being a surprise.
Yeah.
When he said he wanted to leadthe league in interception, I
didn't think that was going tobe possible.
I just didn't think I was like,I'm glad he has that goal, but I
didn't think it was going to bepossible.
So he exceeded my expectation,but for mine is still in the
secondary, but Carlton Davisexceeded my expectation for the
year.

(44:59):
He was.
Darn forced Kyler Murray out ofbounds and on a fourth down play

(45:21):
and then caused them to get aturnover and downs that play
sticks in my mind because that'sa Carlton Davis play.
He was involved in a lot just,and also just.
he was great in coverage and Ithink he was a great to have
Terry on there because that'sthe type of player we want Terry
on to be right their tightcoverage, but, you know, he's
got to learn those tricks and tohave that tape and be able to

(45:43):
work with Carlton for the year.
I was super happy with Carlton.
I know he only had twointerceptions on the year, but
those were very importantinterceptions because without
those, we don't win that game inthe Texans,

Jacob (45:54):
Right, same game, yeah.

you know,

Jacob (45:57):
No, definitely.

Yeah.
Is there any other players?
You said you had some other

Jacob (46:01):
Yeah, no, yeah, because My top one was a meek Robertson,

Mm

Jacob (46:06):
you know, stay in the secondary, but we didn't really
know what to expect out of ameek before the season started.
I liked his attitude in theinterviews.
I liked, you know, what he wasputting out there on social
media.
This is before you even hadTwitter.

hmm.

Jacob (46:19):
you know, he was he had the right mindset, right
attitude.
It was like, OK, I can getbehind this guy.
But, you know, he seemed like hewas ready to fight for a spot,
fight for playing time.
I also wasn't sure beforehandwith the graphics and
everything.
Like, is this guy going to makethe team?
Like, what do we have?
You know, how is this going tolook?
Is he going to be able to getplaying time and.
He looked really good intraining camp and he played well

(46:42):
pretty much all year long Hewould you know rake straw guy
injured and he stepped in, youknow He just played well right
away and that culminated withthe last game in the Vikings
Carlton Davis is out and then hehas to cover Justin Jefferson
and Holds him to three catches,

Yep.

Jacob (46:59):
know, it just got better and better as a season went on
He really stepped up there andthen you know, obviously like
the devastating injury thathappened Like the second play or
whatever against the commanders.
But, you know, I think it was ait was a surprise that Amik
played as well as he did.

I was pleasantly surprised with Amik and I'm glad
that he's on our team next yearand that we could see him, you
know, like we said earlier, wedon't know where he's going to
play is so much.
He could play inside or outside.
So we'll see how that lines up.
Deal.
I didn't really have, that wasmy other player that I would
mention.

Jacob (47:32):
Oh, OK.

but I will say it, you know, on the offensive
side, I was like, who, who couldI pick here?
And the only one I come up with,and this is.
Not on the level of the playerswe just mentioned, but mahogany,
he exceeded my expectationsbecause, you know, late round
pick.
Okay.
We're hoping he just makes ateam, right.
Or, you know, is he going to getput on the pack practice squad?

(47:56):
You know, he's injured, he's NFIfor the first, like what, six
weeks of the season.
And then all of a sudden laterin the season, he, you know, the
bears, he's getting.
getting a spot start because ofan injury and he looks good, you
know, and then Sightler's outand he looked good in the
playoff game, totally exceededmy expectations.

(48:16):
And so, and I look forward towhere, where he's going to, it
gives us some to move aroundnext year.
So I look for him, he's eithergoing to be our top backup or
he's going to be starting nextyear and

Jacob (48:28):
Definitely.

be great.

Jacob (48:30):
I agree with that.
I only have one other personhere for my surprise player.
And, you know, that's JackCampbell.
We were hoping for the secondyear leap, you know, word out of
training camps that he was, youknow, he was putting it all
together.
And, you know, we finally we sawthat on the field for sure.
And as long as he went out, youknow, he had to step up.
Derek Barnes get hurt, Rodrigo,you know, there are so many

(48:52):
injuries to the linebackers andthe defense, you know, as a
whole.
So for him to be, you know, he'splaying top 10, like that, you
know, was a great surprise.
His number of tackles, he'sright there with Fred Warner and
Bobby Wagner.
I mean, he, he definitely showedhe belongs, he showed he can
handle it.

that I like I don't like about the injuries,
but the, you know, he's tryingto look at the bright side of
things, right?
It put Jack in a spot where hehad to be in Alex's spot.
So he learned that right.
And now, now he could go backand play behind Alex and let
Alex run that defense.
And he could look at it througha different lens.
Like.

(49:31):
Jack Campbell's like, I've beenin that spot and he can, it's
going to be a better position oflearning for him.
At least that that's the way Ifeel.
And whether he overtakes himwith Calvin Shepard, I mean, we
don't know, you know, AaronGlenn and Alex were really
close.
Calvin might be runningsomething a little different.
we don't, we don't know.
And Jack Campbell may becalling, you know, maybe he's
the green dot next year.

(49:52):
We, I don't know, but he playedCampbell played really well, but
I thought the opportunity tolearn and take Alex's spot for a
little bit is really going tobenefit this defense and him in
general.
And it gave us a spot to seewhat, what this future could be
look like.
Cause you know, we're hopingJack Campbell's supersedes Alex
at some point and you know, wefirst round pick, right?

Jacob (50:17):
Right, right.
Oh yeah, we're, we're getting.
We're getting back on thatreturn already.

Yep.

Jacob (50:23):
but that's a good point.
I mean, you know, being forcedto take that green dot force to
see forced to run the defense,to look at the offense
differently, you got to worryabout more than just your own
responsibility.
And then even if he doesn't getthe green dot, if it's still
Alex's next year, he's still nowit's almost like having two
green dots right now.
You know exactly what you'relooking at.
You can help direct.
I mean, that's best casescenario,

Yeah.
Well, when you saw Jack wastaken out there, there's all
those injuries, you know, he'sgot players that they're pulling
off the street and he's got toget them in the right spot.
I

Jacob (50:52):
right?

is, I mean, that's tough for anybody that
would've been tough for Alextoo, right?
I mean, you've got guys thatweren't on the team at the
beginning of the week of that,all of a sudden they're in there
playing meaningful snaps and yougot to get them in the right
spot.
So that, that was tough.
So.

Jacob (51:09):
Right.

Kudos to Jack.
So, you know, plenty more of thesoft season to talk about.
That's kind of it that I wantedto talk about on those topics,
but let's the awards show waslast year.
Let's quickly run through this.
The golf MVP vote.
He, he did get some MVP votes,you know?
I wasn't expecting him to win byany accounts because there were

(51:31):
some quarterbacks that had a lotof good votes.
But any thoughts on, you know,how many votes he got and were
you surprised by anything withthat?
And in regards to that?

Jacob (51:40):
I was worried that he wasn't going to be as high as he
was or that, you know, peopleare going to kind of overlook
him after that Houston game andeverything like that.
So it was cool to see him, youknow, get those votes.
I'm interested, though, if youif we gave you the vote, if you,
you know, you get to pick five,how would your five look?

Oh

Jacob (51:57):
for the MVP.

And

Jacob (51:58):
Would you play golf in your top five?

well, we're going to talk a little bit later about
my ideas to change the category,but I'm just going to kind of go
with what I would definitely,I've probably have Lamar number
one.
I probably put Josh Allen toborough three, Saquon four, and
I didn't have a list prepared.

(52:23):
So I'm going off top of my head.
don't know if I'd have golfnumber five.
I don't know who'd be numberfive right now.
almost put Gibbs ahead of golf,to be honest with you,

Jacob (52:33):
Okay,

I

Jacob (52:35):
right, right.

but I, when we get down to the category, maybe
I'll give, when we get down toideas that change, I have things
that I want to change in the NFBpeople.
So maybe that's why I go, didyou come up with the top five?

Jacob (52:49):
I thought about that too, but I, I think I probably would
have picked Josh Allen, JoshAllen, Lamar Jackson, then
probably Saquon.
I think I would put Goff in mytop 5, but he would probably be,
it'd be Josh, Josh Allen, Lamar,Saquon, Burrow, Goff.

Okay.
Yeah.

Jacob (53:09):
Just sticking with the theme of the quarterbacks for
MVP basically, I mean.

I know.
Yeah, I Let's just do that rightnow.
Let's just talk about how Iwould change a category.
Cause it has to do with thequarterbacks.
I don't like that the MVP hasturned into just the best
quarterback.
I don't, I don't like that.
It's like the rookie of the yearis also turned into the best
rookie quarterback.
the

Jacob (53:31):
Right.

hard.
You got to have like anoutstanding, like a team, a
player in another position hasto have a really outstanding
season to overtake that.
So if I were going to change it,I would do like a QB of the
year.
And then an offensive player ofthe year that couldn't be a
quarterback.
And then I would just eliminateMVP.
I wouldn't have an MV overallMVP.
I just have those twocategories.

Jacob (53:52):
They should do it like Madden.
So when you play Madden you dothat, they have like quarterback
of the year, running back of theyear, wide receiver of the year.

okay.

Jacob (54:00):
you know, how college has them named after players, you
know, the top running back, thetop wide receiver.
And then, you know, it doesn'thave to be like one for AFC, one
for NFC, but it'd be just aseparate, like, okay, you know,
here's your vote running back ofthe year and you get to pick
five and they're all runningbacks.
Like you said, then you don'teven have.
A true MVP award because I don'tknow the only way you'd be able

(54:21):
to change that is if you addedthe extra like quarterback
Running back thing, but alsohave you kind of changed the
criteria?
I just think it's always goingto be perceived that the
quarterback is the most valueposition most valuable position
Therefore quarterback needs tobe mvp.

Do you think if Saquon would have like beat the
all time rushing record, hehave, been offensive MVP?

Jacob (54:48):
I still don't think so.
I think lamar and josh allenjust played too Well,

Yeah.

Jacob (54:52):
you know when adrian peterson did that I don't think
that there were you know as manyimpressive It was also back
before it was Such a quarterbackyou know, award, but when Adrian
Peterson won, I don't think thequarterbacks that were up that
year had his, you know, manyimpressive stats.
I'm going to March stat line tonot win MVP with those stats is
crazy.

I know.
I

Jacob (55:13):
that's really only because he's won so much
recently.
I think the people are like,well, you know, we're going to
give it to Josh Allen now,

Yeah, that's what I thought, too.

Jacob (55:21):
But if you take Josh Allen off of the bills team,
they tank hard.

Yeah.
Yeah.
That Ravens may not as muchcause they have a Derek Henry
back there, although runningback the bills is really good
too.
Do you, so you mentioned theAdrian Peterson, do you know
what year that was that he wonMVP?

Jacob (55:41):
Oh man.
I don't like 2007, 2008.

12, 2012,

Jacob (55:46):
wow.

that was the last year that.
has not won the MVP award was2012.
So it's been, you know, 12seasons of just who's the best
quarterback this year

Jacob (55:59):
Do you have the voting results in front of you?

of for.
Like the MVP like what I'm justtalking about.
Yeah, I do.
I have the whole list.
Why what's your

Jacob (56:09):
I just want to know who the quarterbacks were.

oh, I didn't

Jacob (56:12):
Megatron was number four that year.

oh, I'm sorry.
I just have the list of thewinner.
So I don't have

Jacob (56:17):
Oh,

who else that year the previous.
Yeah,

Jacob (56:22):
sorry, go ahead.

I was gonna say the previous non quarterback
besides before Adrian Petersonwas Tomlinson and 06.
And,

Jacob (56:32):
the record for touchdowns, right?

yeah, but then Sean Alexander was right before
that, you know, and, you know,you start getting into like the
Barry Sanders and like, youknow, when running backs were
more important back then than,than they are right now.
Yeah.

Jacob (56:48):
that 2012 year, just cause I was trying to see, cause
I remember it was like, no, noquarterback had like, you know,
such an outstanding.
So, Adrian Peterson won, he had2, 097 rushing yards and 12
touchdowns.
So obviously a lot of yards, 348attempts.

(57:09):
So that's on par with whatSaquon was.
I don't have Saquon's numbers infront of me, but that's on par.
Number two was Peyton Manning.
Peyton Manning had 4, 659 yards,37 touchdowns, 11 interceptions.
Jared Goff this year, 4, 629yards, 37 touchdowns, 12

(57:30):
interceptions.

Yeah.

Jacob (57:31):
So that's almost identical year that Goff had,

And they probably

Jacob (57:34):
and that was second place.

right?
Peyton Manning and

Jacob (57:37):
Hey, man, he had six rushing yards.
Jared Goff actually outrushedhim.

Yeah.
Yeah, that's hilarious.
Good pull on the stats there.
I

Jacob (57:47):
Yeah,

I mean, the game is a little different now.
I mean, it's definitely gottenmore passer oriented and you
know, we got 17 games as opposedto 16 that were in that, that
season.
So,

Jacob (58:00):
right.

yeah.
All right.
Let's get into the.
This is the one that'scontroversial, at least to us
Lions fans coach of the year,Dan Campbell did not win.
It went to Kevin O'Connell whois a good coach.
So we talked about it, man.
I'm sure you disagree with thisas much as I do.

Jacob (58:20):
I called it though.
I told you, I said, they just,if you win a division and you do
that well, when you're expectedto do well, they do not vote you
as coach of the year.

Yeah.

Jacob (58:29):
for somebody who, whose team was not expected or maybe
doesn't belong or, you know,just somebody.
Whatever team exceedsexpectations by that well, wins
coach of the year.
And that's why I knew, I thoughtO'Connell had it in the bag
before we even played the lastgame.

I know.

Jacob (58:46):
Does he deserve it more than Dan Campbell?
Absolutely not.

Campbell beat him twice,

Jacob (58:50):
Right.

Reed's never won coach of the year, Dan Campbell
is going to have a tough timewinning now because the
expectations are that they'regoing to be good.
This year we were expected to begood, but with all the injuries,
you get aid now that that shouldhave pushed.
Dan Campbell over the top

Jacob (59:06):
Right.

I looked through the voting to voters that not
put Dan Campbell, even in theirtop five Vicarucci and Adam
Sheen or shine.
I'm not sure how to pronounceit.
Did not put them in their topfive.
Ridiculous.
I did find this Teddy Brewski,who somehow has a vote put them
forth, you know, for a guy thatsaid, I wouldn't want Dan
Campbell on my sideline,

Jacob (59:28):
Right.

for the coach of the year, talking up out both
sides of your mouth,

Jacob (59:33):
Yeah.
Yeah, I just don't, I mean, VicCarucci I think is a Bills guy.
I don't know about the otherguy.
I believe Vic Carucci is like aBills.
Oh, okay.

Adam

Jacob (59:47):
don't know how you don't have Dan Campbell in the top
five.
I'm pretty sure both of them hadO'Connell first to, you know, it
is, what it is just as much asthe MVP just become like a
quarterback award.
The coach of the year is justthe most improbable.
And that's why you also look atthese awards five or 10 years
after, and you're like, Oh wow,that coach, he only coached for
that team two years before hegot fired, but he was coach of

(01:00:08):
the year.
Like, or, you know, they likedidn't even win a playoff game,
but he's coach of the year.

Jason Harwood (01:00:13):
I

Jacob (01:00:13):
And I think this is one of those situations where, you
know, a couple of years fromnow, we might be like, wow,
Kevin O'Connor was coach of theyear over Dan Campbell.
That's funny.
It sucks.
I mean, it does.
It sucks.
It's, you know,

I agree.
I wouldn't need to beat it adead horse But yeah, it should
have been named Campbell.
So Offensive player of the yearwent to Saquon.
The interesting thing that wedon't need to go into too much
of this, but Tom Brady and TeddyBrewski both voted for Penesool
for in their, their top five,which that's awesome.

Jacob (01:00:49):
that's awesome.

Yeah.

Jacob (01:00:52):
Respect from the former players.

exactly.
You know, I think Gibbs also gotvotes and, goff, I think, got
some votes too, and Amin Ra gotvotes.
So, I mean, we had a lot of

Jacob (01:01:02):
That's cool.

votes which was really cool.

Jacob (01:01:05):
We got a lot of good offensive players

yeah, we did.
I mean, really historic offense.
I mean, not like the best alltime, but right up there.

Jacob (01:01:14):
up there.

Yep defensive play of the year went to Patrick
Sertain, but Kirby Joseph didreceive one first place vote.
Dave Burkett, who is the Lionswriter that has a vote voted
Kirby fifth, actually, which Iwas kind of surprised about
that.

Jacob (01:01:30):
Who'd he put, don't tell me he put Xavier McKinney in
front of him.

I don't think so.
Here, I will, I will look,

Jacob (01:01:38):
It, you know, it was cool to see that Kirby, obviously it
was cool that he made the AllPro.
We knew he probably was notgoing to win Defensive Player of
the Year, but it was nice thathe was actually getting votes
and getting recognition there.
Instead of getting snubbed youknow, about the whole, like, the
Pro Bowl thing.

Yes.
Yes.

Jacob (01:01:57):
also voted for McKinney, and most of them had McKinney in
front of them.
And I just don't, like, I, youknow, What metric, what, could
you possibly, you know, What areyou looking at that he's above
Kirby?

Exactly.
He had more interceptions.
His you know, the quarterbackrating against was like twice as
twice as good as McKinney.
So I don't know.

Jacob (01:02:19):
Right.

you asked about Burkett.
So T.
J.
Watt was his number one milesGarrett to certain was three
Hendricks and four and thenKirby Joseph was fifth.

Jacob (01:02:29):
I, I would say that's a valid list, I guess.
I mean,

yeah.

Jacob (01:02:34):
This was one of those years where it was just wide
open.
There was not anybody that tookover or had such an amazing
year.
You know, that they were justcutting dry.

Yeah.
Well,

Jacob (01:02:44):
So I did like that.
They didn't just give it right.
I liked that.
They did not just say, well, youknow what, TJ Y had a pretty
good year.
Let's all just vote him again,

Mm

Jacob (01:02:53):
though it was not spectacular and was not even the
top, you know, edge rusher statsI'd have been cool with
Hendrickson winning too,

So, yeah, that's kind of all I wanted to talk
about the, with the, award show.
Was there anything else that youwanted to talk about?
Maybe Bill Belichick'sgirlfriend or something like
that.

Jacob (01:03:16):
I'm okay.
I did see that she wore aAtlanta Falcon Super Bowl shirt,
so that was funny.

I think Snoop Dogg said his joke.
He was going through so manythings.
He's like, I, you know, he'stalking about all football
things.
He goes, I remember so much thatit's before Bill Chuck's
girlfriend was even born.

Jacob (01:03:35):
Yes.
Nice.

Oh my God.
Hilarious.
All right.
Before we wrap up here, let'stalk about these CJGJ comments.
I'm going to read them righthere from the Dave Burkett
article.
Before we comment on it, I'mgoing to say asked about playing
in Detroit, he, this is GardnerJohnson.
He said, it was hell.
I got lied to.
So it was whatever I got toldrespectfully, I was going to get

(01:03:59):
brought back and did get broughtback.
And off season went real for mesigning back here because I
wasn't really tripping it allworked out.
And then he's, and he went on tosay truthfully, like in Detroit,
it was hell.
I went there just to go, okay, Igot hurt.
And I was like, eff ittruthfully.
That's why I didn't, why Ididn't rehab in Detroit.
This guy likes to talk, but what

Jacob (01:04:23):
Oh, we knew that.
You know, when he's on your,when he's on your side, you're a
little more tolerant, you know,more tolerable of it, but, you
know, I don't blame him, youknow, really.
When Jamal Williams left, hekind of had the same sort of not
as loud and Jamal Williamsdoesn't say stuff like that, but
it was along the same lines oflike, you know, they didn't
really, you know, what you gotout of it is that they probably

(01:04:45):
had some sort of contract tooffer.
There were probably some termsand he didn't like the terms.
So Jamal Williams went elsewhereand it's probably the same year,
especially with, you know, causeGarner Johnson only played three
games for us.
He was hurt.
You know, he came back, he did,you know, he played okay, but he
didn't play great.
So it was like, we have a verysmall sample size, and now here

(01:05:05):
you are, you're wanting a, youknow, multi year contract,
you're wanting more money, andnow we've got this rookie, Brian
Branch, who played, you know,lights out, so we really didn't,
you know, yeah, would it havebeen nice to have him?
Yeah, for the right price, butat the same time, that would
have been playing time takenaway from Brian Branch, or Kirby
Joseph, maybe, you know, just,which turned out better for us?

(01:05:26):
Turned out better for us, orturned out better for him?
Obviously he feels some type ofway.
You know, he was talking trashabout Philadelphia and their
fans the whole time that he washere.
That's kind of just who he is.
He's one of the best trashtalkers in the league.
So my feelings aren't hurt aboutit.
And I, you know, I do feel likethere's probably some sort of.

(01:05:47):
It's hard to say truth, but Imean, there's probably some,
there's some smoke there.
Like maybe they told him like,yeah, we definitely, you know,
we want you to come back.
We're going to set up some,we'll give you this one year
deal this year and see how itgoes.
We'll give you a multi year dealand it didn't go very well.
So then that multi year deal wasoff the table and that might be
what he means.
He was lied to.
Like things change, you know,it's a business.

(01:06:08):
So,

But he doesn't, that may be true but also it
doesn't go with his rehabcomment.
Like I didn't rehab there.
Like he rehabbed in Florida.
Like, so in training camp andthe first two games, it was so
bad, know, that has nothing todo with the contract.
He wasn't going to get acontract extension.
signed the one year deal.

(01:06:31):
He knew he was going to go tothe next year.
If we're going to sign up for amulti year deal, we would have
done that right out the gate.

Jacob (01:06:36):
right.

It does, you know, he's talking to talk.

Jacob (01:06:40):
Yes.

I just don't like sour grapes and saying it was
hell.
Cause what other player has saidthat it's been hell?
No,

Jacob (01:06:50):
Right.
Nobody.

nobody, people want to come here.
So it's just CJ being CJ.
And like you said, he's on yourteam.
You you're tolerant of it.
You might even get kick out ofit.
You like it when he's not onyour team.
No, you don't like it at all.

Jacob (01:07:07):
And this bother you though, when you saw this where
you're like, Oh man, screw thisguy that bother you.
Or cause I really, I saw thisand I just brush it off.
It was whatever.

I, I don't like hearing that the time in Detroit
was how I like to kind of takethat personally, I guess a
little bit, just not, I'm notfrom Detroit, but you know, I
identify with

Jacob (01:07:27):
Where, yeah,

you know, root for all their

Jacob (01:07:29):
you're there pretty frequently and where you're
right.
We're close.

and so like, I, it's, you know, I, I just, I
respect Dan Campbell andeverything that he's done so
much that if you're going to sayit's hell, then it's part of,
it's like that Dan, that DanCampbell made it hell.
Right?
I mean, he's the one that'srunning the show.
He's the one that's setting theenvironment.
And I just.

(01:07:54):
You know, Dan Campbell won't sayanything bad about CJGJ.
He won't comment on, on thistype of stuff.
But I'm sure that hurt him alittle bit, right?
Why, why would, why would he saysomething like that?
But, or maybe he knows CJ enoughthat it's like, whatever, you
know it doesn't.
You know,

Jacob (01:08:10):
He seemed to enjoy himself when he was here.
You know, this is way after thefact,

So of weird takes, the last thing that we'll
talk about here is the GregRosenthal did an interview with
Gibbs and, and Dave Montgomery.
And he went back on one of histweets and I'm going to read the
tweets.
So the difference between thiscame out right around, right
after the draft or somewhere youknow, it was before.
Jameer Gibbs, you know, I hadmade his debut in the NFL said

(01:08:38):
the difference between DavidMontgomery and Jameer Gibbs and
Jamal Williams and DeAndre Swiftis not large all time.
Bad take all time.

Jacob (01:08:48):
I love saying these there's like a Twitter.
It's like Ferdy's and coldtakes, and it's just full of
stuff like this.
You'll see like The videos oflike the draft videos, like the
Bills fans, that's one thatsticks out to me, is the Bills
fans, when they pick Josh Allen,they're all so upset, and
they're like throwing stuff, andthey just can't believe it.
And you know, just, obviouslywhen you're gonna try to put
stuff out here like this, you'regonna have these thoughts, and,

(01:09:10):
you know, this is just very, Ithink we all knew this was
probably wrong, right?
Before, like, as soon as it wassaid, I didn't see this right
away, but it's like, ah, no,that's, that's not true.

I knew it.

Jacob (01:09:22):
after the season.

Yeah, I knew David Montgomery was a big
upgrade over Jamal Williams justfrom us being in the same
division.
I knew that Jamir Gibbs is alittle more wild card because
he's a rookie, but getting draftthat high.
I just knew if he could stay onthe field, he's going to DeAndre
Swift and he's turned into, youknow, Jamir Gibson and one of

(01:09:44):
the best running backs in theleague and, you know, and
probably the best dual threatrunning back in the league right
now, I think.

Jacob (01:09:53):
Yes, right.
Yeah, I mean, it's only going upnext year, man,

I know if, can you imagine having, you know,
still having Jamal Williams onthis team and Jandre Swift, oh
my God, there's offense wouldn'teven be close to what,

Jacob (01:10:08):
right?
No, no.

But.
You know, I, I sympathize alittle bit with Greg Rosenthal
cause like for the first time,you know, last year we were
doing, we'll do our NFL reviewcause we did our, our preview
and some of my takes were bad.
I know Zach's, Zach's takeespecially on we'll love us
pretty bad

Jacob (01:10:29):
Yeah,

then,

Jacob (01:10:30):
I

you

Jacob (01:10:31):
wait to revisit that.

Exactly.
So I mean, I, I get it andputting yourself out there,
anybody else that's done doesstuff like this or put stuff on
Twitter.
I mean, that stuff is out there.
And yeah, you know, you put youropinion.
I like to try to back upwhatever my opinion is.
So I got like some basis ofreason I but if I'm wrong, I'm
wrong is it

Jacob (01:10:52):
Right.
And I mean, it really seems likethis you know, that tweet was
his honest thought.
It wasn't like you know, anykind of like to cause any kind
of shockwave or whatever.
Like, he really, he really justwas wrong

Well, I mean, I think, I don't know the timing
on this, but I'm betting it wasright after draft time, right
after the draft, when

Jacob (01:11:13):
right after we, yeah.

Lions draft, which is hilarious because it's
turned into one of the all timebest drafts, you know, good Sam
Laporta, Branch, Jack Campbelland Jameer Gibbs.
I mean, that's, you know, thecore of our team and part of the
core of our team.
And yeah, it's, it's, it'shilarious to look back on that.

(01:11:38):
All right, man.
Anything before we head out ofhere, or we next week, right.
It's going to be fun.
We got Miko and Morgan comingon.
We're going to do the fancy playdraft.
So we're going to pick our fan,our best drafts.
So encourage you to listen tothis.
I think it's going to be fun.
It'd be fun to revisit some ofthe really highlight moments of
the season.

(01:11:58):
And I'm curious to what you'regoing to be.
Some of your favorite plays are,and, yeah, I'm curious what
Morgan and Miko and then justlike the fantasy draft, Jacob,
I'm looking forward to snipingsome of your plays right

Jacob (01:12:12):
Okay,

them.

Jacob (01:12:15):
I'm looking forward to your team sucking and being the
worst.

Okay.
Nice.

Jacob (01:12:19):
we pick these plays, it's going right to Twitter, it's
going right to Reddit.
This

Yeah.

Jacob (01:12:23):
is a good conversation piece.
I want to hear what plays we'remissing from other people, and I
want to hear who's

Yeah.

Jacob (01:12:29):
who's playbook is best.

So just to give a quick preview, we're going to
pick.
So it's going to be Miko, Scott,Morgan Cannon from Pride of
Detroit, it's going to be Jacoband I.
Okay.
Okay.
We're going to randomly Mondaynight when we record we're going
to randomly pick order and thenyou pick, you try to build your
best five plays from the season.
So, and you're the criteria thatyou come up with.

(01:12:53):
These places, your own, is itthe most exciting play?
Was it, you know, veryinfluential on the game?
Was it just a really fun playthat you liked?
Was it, you know, your favoritetrick play?
You know, just whatever.
And then at the end of this.
We, you know, we're going todebate on who's got the best
five place and we'll see how itgoes.
I think it'll be fun.
And we'll see what the onlystipulation is.

(01:13:15):
You have to pick one defensiveplay of your five doesn't, you
know, whatever one you want topick, but you got to have at
least one of them has to be adefensive play.
So that'll be next week.
And like.
Jacob said, we'll probably getthat up on YouTube.
We'll get that up on Twitter andit'll be a good time.
And then that, that'll be ourpod next week.
And we'll see.

Jacob (01:13:36):
Gonna be great.

Yeah, it'd be fun.
Looking forward to talking withMorgan and Miko.
We haven't talked to Miko in awhile.
Morgan, you know, we talk alittle more often, but it's
always good to catch up withthose guys.

Jacob (01:13:45):
Absolutely.

All right.
For Jacob, I'm Jason.
Let's go lions.

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