February 21, 2025 • 54 mins
Join Jason Harwood and Jacob Litton as they discuss the new coaching staff, Aiden Hutchinson, and Jamo. What will they be looking for at the combine.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jason Harwood (00:41):
Welcome back to Talking Grit.
I'm Jason Harwood and with me isJacob Litton.
I want to apologize for ourscheduled podcasts on Monday.
Sicknesses and schedulesdefinitely got in the way.
We have to postpone our plannedpodcast, was the Fancy Play
Draft.
And we're going to be recordingthat, Monday night.
So it'll be out Tuesday morning.
Jacob (01:03):
Let's say next week,
Jason Harwood (01:04):
huh?
Jacob (01:05):
you're putting pressure on us.
You're putting pressure on us bytelling them the day
Jason Harwood (01:08):
Yeah, I know.
Hopefully everything works outwith all four of us.
Getting four people together atonce is Sometimes difficult
during this time of year.
Miko and Morgan will both bejoining us.
It's enough about next week'sshow.
Let's talk about this week'sshow.
first I'll start off with Jacob,how you been?
Jacob (01:25):
I'm all right, man.
It's the downtime of the seasonthough.
It's far enough away, thescouting combines coming up.
We got that to look forward to,but it's far enough away from
the draft and free agency,starting everything.
It's just the downtime.
Jason Harwood (01:36):
I don't know.
It hasn't helped that, the bothbasketball and hockey have been
on their break, at least,hockey's had this four nations
tournament, which has beenpretty fun to watch, but I'm
ready to get back to Detroitsports, Pistons game tomorrow
night.
So that'll be fun.
I
Jacob (01:51):
Absolutely good.
Detroit sports too.
I mean, they
Jason Harwood (01:55):
know
Jacob (01:56):
are playing well.
Jason Harwood (01:57):
it wasn't too long ago, Jacob, that none of
our teams were worth a darn.
And now there's a possibilitythat all four of them could make
the playoffs.
Jacob (02:06):
Yeah.
I don't know what year it was,but it was, it could have been
when we were oh, and 16, butthere was one year where they
like combined all the records orall the winning percentages from
all the cities that have thefour major teams and we were the
worst by a long shot,
Jason Harwood (02:21):
Yeah,
Jacob (02:22):
just rubbing it in.
Jason Harwood (02:24):
It just seemed like for a while, then even
Michigan football was not doinggood.
And it was just a downtime andsports.
And for me as a huge sports fan,It was tough to stomach and now
we've gone on a streak ofbeating Ohio state over and over
again and right away starting toplay well, especially since the
coaching change and Pistons havebeen surprisingly well.
(02:44):
And then it's not to mention theTigers, like 0.
1 percent playoff chance runthat they had at the end of the
year.
That was crazy exciting.
And of course the Lions that wefollow so much that, been
playing really well for thebetter part of two and a half
years.
Jacob (03:00):
I wonder like how many of the listeners are just, Detroit
sports fans or how many because,we had a couple of people on
there they liked the lions, butthey may not like the tigers or
they don't roll with the pistonsor, Dusty from Green Bay, he's a
Packers fan, but he actuallyfollowed the Tigers.
So
Jason Harwood (03:15):
Yeah.
I just can't, I have a hard timerelating to that.
I just, I, you and I are bothjust Michigan Detroit fans fans
that cherry pick or, I don'twant to say cherry pick, but
just have fans
Jacob (03:29):
cherry pickles are fighting words.
Jason Harwood (03:31):
they are, I guess the cherry picking like, Oh Oh,
I'm, like a lot of my son's age.
Yeah.
Friends are all like 49ers andchiefs fans.
I think that maybe like some ofthose people, that's when they
started loving the sport, thatwas a good team.
So they followed them.
I guess that's probably how thathappened.
Or maybe it's a parent likes oneor the other, but for me, I just
(03:51):
grew up.
My parents just love Detroitteams.
And that wasn't great to me and,bad you can't get your kids to
follow suit, man.
Jacob (03:59):
I know my parents were not into sports.
They didn't watch sports.
I had to do this on my own.
I had to develop this heartbreakon my own.
Nobody led me to this.
Jason Harwood (04:10):
so how did you get into sports?
If your parents weren't into it,was it friends or other family
members or?
Jacob (04:16):
Honestly, like this, the first, probably they started me
in T box.
It was something to do.
And I was just always, I lovesports.
I was always really good atsports and it was just like, so
those things, this is what Irelate to the most.
So now life revolves aroundsports and I'm okay with that.
Jason Harwood (04:32):
No, it's like the first reality TV, really, when
you think about it, like you gotthis, you got all these
storylines and you're playing,it's real stuff and real people.
People in real players and justit's fun.
I can't imagine my life withoutsports.
And for a while, I didn't thinkthat my boys were going to be
into sports, but they totallyare.
(04:52):
And I'm living my dream as asports dad.
Jacob (04:56):
It's a good feeling to have them.
Be into sports, and JJ likes tosee news stories and sports
things and he'll share updatesand stuff.
Just unfortunately for me, Ihave to deal with JJ liking the
Dolphins and the Heat and teamsthat are not mine.
At least everybody likes all thesame teams in your house,
Jason Harwood (05:13):
That's right.
I come home with, dad, did youknow this dad, did you know
that?
And then after I get through thenews of the day or whatever
they've learned since, they'vegotten home from school, then I
learned about new Madden ratingsand stuff that is not majorly
important in my life, but it'sfun nonetheless to just talk any
sort of sports with my kids.
So I I don't take that forgranted at all.
Jacob (05:36):
for sure.
Jason Harwood (05:37):
All right, let's get on talking about the Lions
this week.
The Lions announced their fullcoaching staff.
You and I are not going to goover this extensive list.
We're going to just kind of hitthe highlights, but before we
get all started in that DanMiller interviewed the new OC
and the new DC.
You and I both watch thoseinterviews.
I'm going to start with you.
We'll start with John Morton.
(05:59):
you have any impressions fromthe interview or what caught
your eye or your ear from thatinterview with Dan Miller?
Jacob (06:05):
I mean, obviously with any coach, you expect them to,
talk about the team and talkabout what they hope to bring to
the team and everything.
But in this case, what I caughtfrom that was just, he's from
Michigan, right?
His family's from Michigan.
He grew up rooting for thelions.
His family's all still here.
He was here just a few shortyears ago, It really means more
to him.
It's really in there.
He knows what it's about.
(06:27):
You don't have to, some of theseguys, you have to learn about
what Detroit's about.
You have to learn about whatthings are like here, what the
people are like here.
And, it was cool hearing himtalk about that.
He's from here and he's all in.
And I like that.
Jason Harwood (06:39):
it.
I looked it up, he went toWestern Michigan University.
I actually went to WesternMichigan University for a while.
And yeah, just that stuck out tome too.
Like the Michigan connection heknows what it would mean to the
city, just like Aiden Hutchinsonknows that.
Like just being from this area,having to live through all that.
He's gonna, And hopefully he'sgoing to provide a, the things
(07:01):
that I took from it, other thanthe Michigan connection was,
that he's, it starts with JG.
It starts with Jared Goff.
He said, and he's already got aprior relationship with Jared
Goff.
The cool thing about this isMorton's already developed.
Relationship with these players.
I mean, he has a new OC comingin.
He's been a part of this, the,he was right from the get going,
(07:21):
Ben Johnson to God OC.
He saw it being built from theground up.
He made, not in here.
He said, it's not broken.
I'm not in here to fix anything.
I'm in here to enhance things,to make it better.
And he can make it better.
I.
I don't, I'm not saying that BenJohnson was a bad coach or
(07:42):
anything like that.
Loved him here, but I think hecould take it a step further or
they could do different things.
We, if anyone had a beat on whatBen Johnson was going to do,
that's going to change a littlebit.
Cause now play calling is goingto change a little bit with
Morton back there.
And he did confirm John Mortonis calling the plays.
Cause there was talk about,whether Dan Campbell was going
(08:02):
to call the plays, Mortonconfirmed that he is calling the
place.
Jacob (08:06):
Yeah, he seemed excited about that, putting that out
there too.
He is going to be the onecalling the plays.
I think he actually reflected onthe last time that he did that
for the Jets and how differentthe situation is here.
With us being established likethat already, all the pieces are
already in place, I mean.
Really, when you think aboutthat's just the best situation
for a coach to come into.
You don't really have to,changes are not 100 percent
(08:29):
necessary.
You don't have drastic thingsthat you need to fix right now
before you can get on the field.
Jason Harwood (08:34):
Yeah the thing is, it's just the pressure,
right?
He's got to live up to thisjuggernaut of an offense and,
there probably will be a littlebit of growing pains, I feel,
but hopefully, they can work alot of that kink out in the off
season, as opposed to in theseason.
You mentioned, I want to go backto something you just mentioned
about his, he was an OC.
(08:56):
So if you look back as a recordas an OC, maybe it's not
impressive, but when I mentionedwho his quarterback was, it was
Josh McCown.
His running backs were a guythat you've probably never heard
of, Billy O'Power.
His two main
Jacob (09:10):
Powell,
Jason Harwood (09:11):
were Powell.
Is it Powell?
Okay.
Jacob (09:13):
Belal Powell.
Jason Harwood (09:14):
Yeah.
And Jermaine curse.
Jacob (09:16):
I've never heard of Belal Powell because he doesn't exist.
Jason Harwood (09:19):
He doesn't exist here.
Jacob (09:20):
Jason's just making up names.
Jason Harwood (09:22):
I know.
I just wanted the last name tobe power.
That would be awesome.
I Last.
Jacob (09:26):
but you know, that is cool.
Jason Harwood (09:27):
The, just to go to a huge tangent here, there
was a Simpson's episode whereHomer changes things to max
power and that'd be a great nameto have.
But anyways the two widereceivers were Jermaine curse
and Robbie chosen.
So not a murderer's row ofoffensive talent there.
He's going to have much bettertalent coming here to Detroit.
Jacob (09:50):
Definitely.
I mean, night and day when youlook at those situations.
Jason Harwood (09:55):
yes, exactly.
Now, of my opinion, this is themore interesting interview of
the two.
I think Kelvin Shepard is anamazing talker.
I want to run through a wall forhim already.
He's just that kind of person.
So what hit you about the KelvinShepard interview, our new
defensive coordinator interviewwith Dan Miller?
Jacob (10:16):
The first was just like the loyalty that he's already
showing to the lions and DanCampbell and just, him talking
about, he was open about havingother opportunities elsewhere
and him wanting to stay here,him wanting to ride this one out
and, he's earned it, right?
He's earned this shot.
It's awesome that he was able tostay here and get the chance to
be here.
I think he made a joke likewe'll just be co head coaches
(10:37):
with Dan Campbell once that timecomes.
No, yeah, but that's just what Igot out of it is the loyalty and
everything.
We already know what Shep'sabout, but what were your first
thoughts?
Jason Harwood (10:47):
Yeah I'm just like mesmerized when he talks, I
just listen to it.
Is so inspiring a player, he hasthe Detroit roots, just Morton
did, he did, chefs been here asa player.
He knows what this town's about.
He's been here for the last fewyears coaching.
He definitely knows he's notgoing to come in here and.
Just change everything.
(11:08):
He's just going to, again, makeit grow and make it his own.
I, he mentioned Terry andArnold's name twice in that
interview that you caught.
He mentioned it early on.
And then when they, Dan Millerasked him about players, that
they could make a big jump.
Terry and Arnold was the firstname out of his mouth.
So I'm excited by that.
I think he sees a potentialthere.
(11:30):
He also mentioned Brian branchas having a potential to grow.
What did you think about that?
That, that stuck out to me.
Jacob (11:39):
I mean, if the ceiling gets any higher, that already is
one of the best graphics we'vegotten for him.
Jason Harwood (11:44):
Yes, what's funny is that he mentioned, I don't
know if you caught it, but hementioned BB's growth from the
neck up, meaning, his footballknowledge.
He has tons of instinct.
He's obviously a great athlete,but if, Calvin Shepard think
that there's more room to growand how we can, change the game.
I, love to see it.
(12:04):
If he makes another big jump,that'd be great.
Jacob (12:07):
No, absolutely.
Jason Harwood (12:08):
Yeah.
And then you mentioned theloyalty.
He mentioned AG.
And how AG like basicallyprepared him for this job that
AG pushed him out and he woulddo more talks with the team and
stuff that he said otherdefensive coordinators, they
want all their time with theplayers and the position coaches
are kind of sidelined.
didn't do that.
He pushed those guys out there.
(12:29):
And I think that's going to makeCalvin Shepard more prepared for
this job.
Jacob (12:34):
Yes.
I mean, shouts out to AG forthat too.
He seemed like he just dideverything the right way.
Jason Harwood (12:40):
What I'm going to quiz you.
What would he, what did CalvinShepard say was non negotiable
in his defense?
Do you remember what the termwas that he used?
Jacob (12:49):
I do not remember that.
Jason Harwood (12:51):
Relentless effort, which I loved.
I loved hearing that.
And he said, that's nonnegotiable.
And.
Jacob (13:00):
for it.
Jason Harwood (13:01):
I'm all for that.
And I also, the other thing thatI love, he talked about the
toughness in the trenches and hesaid, he likes, he tells the
team, you have to earn theright.
To rush the passer.
what he means by that is thatyou have to stop him on first
and second down so that youcould get them in that passing
situation so that you could justpin your ears back and go to, go
(13:23):
after the quarterback.
liked that.
I mean, it's not much differentwith AGA or what Dan Cabell has
preached before, stop the run.
then, put them in an obviouspassing situation, and then, you
have, you better your chance ifyou eliminate 50 percent of the
plays that they can call.
Jacob (13:40):
That's the name of the game, right?
Jason Harwood (13:43):
So I'm excited.
I'm really glad that they hiredShep for this position.
We'll see how it all turns out.
I'm sure there'll be somegrowing pains with both of them,
but I'm happy to have Shep on,for our defensive coordinator.
Jacob (13:56):
Yeah, that's to be expected, obviously.
The growing pains.
Not everything's gonna clickright away.
Not everything's gonna workright away.
We still have a really goodroster to build around and to do
these things with, but peoplehave to be patient, too.
Give up, a bunch of yards orsome big plays or something like
that.
Let's not call for Shep's Heador, it's just inevitable that
people are gonna do that.
Jason Harwood (14:15):
And then also sometimes it's just a pl a
player missing a play.
It's not necessarily thedefensive coordinator.
So it for us is, you, we have towatch, you have to watch a lot
of tape and you have to, s see alot to make the right call on
that.
And then just listen to the,what the coaches say afterwards.
'cause a lot of times it is on aplayer being outta position I'm,
(14:37):
I don't know about you, Jacob,but I'm watching the four
nations thing right now and
Jacob (14:41):
Yeah, I got it.
Jason Harwood (14:42):
goal.
We're up
Jacob (14:42):
I
Jason Harwood (14:43):
good update.
Anyways there's been along withthose two big changes, it was
seeing the DC, there was someother changes throughout the
lineup.
We're not going to go througheverything.
Scotty Montgomery now is goingto be the wide receivers coach.
Which I kind of curious howthat's going to be with JMO
because Scotty Montgomery seemsto be, a down to business guy.
(15:05):
that would be, just another,mentor voice for JMO.
So I'm happy about that.
But the guy that I think bothyou and I want to talk about is
Tashard Choice, the running, thenew running backs coach.
What did you want to talk aboutwith him?
Jacob (15:19):
mean, just, he has NFL experience, obviously.
So this is another former playerthat we're bringing in here, but
he also, has a alreadyestablished relationship with
Jameer Gibbs.
He was coaching at Georgia techwhen Jameer Gibbs was in there,
he also coached at Texas.
So he saw Bijan Robinson so he'shad some good running backs
underneath him already.
And I just, I think we both feelthe same way about having the
(15:40):
former players in here.
That are able to coach as well.
I think that's just huge.
So I really like that movethere.
Jason Harwood (15:47):
Yeah, I like that move, too.
He's also, to Shard Choice, islike best friends with Calvin
Shepard.
And Calvin Shepard said in hisinterview that, he told to Shard
Choice, Just wait till you getin here.
This is unlike you'd have everseen just that collaborative
effort.
I think he's talking about withthe lions organization.
So it sounds like we got somegood talent there.
(16:10):
And I like, like you mentionedthe experience with Jamir Gibbs.
I'm sure they picked Jamir Gibbsbrain about it.
I think.
Did on the Amun Ra podcast orwas it a, I don't know if it was
Amun Ra or it was anotherpodcast Gibbs talked about that
Tushar Choice was like a reasonwhy he went to Georgia Tech just
to work under him.
Jacob (16:32):
That could have been on there, the St.
Brown podcast.
I did not hear that though.
Jason Harwood (16:36):
Yeah I don't know exactly what podcast, but I know
that he had talked about, um.
Working together.
So
Jacob (16:43):
I mean, if he's able to get the best out of Gibbs and
take him to another level too, Imean, my God,
Jason Harwood (16:48):
I know.
Yeah.
And if he gets, if Gibbs goes toanother level, then you're,
Jacob (16:55):
that's almost unfair.
Jason Harwood (16:56):
it is, yeah, for other teams, but totally
Jacob (16:59):
Yeah.
Jason Harwood (17:00):
Fraley, they added run Gabe coordinator to
his title.
That was probably mostly to keephim here.
He was interviewing out outside.
Just quickly, Bruce Gretkowski,former Toledo quarterback is now
offensive assistant.
lives pretty close to us.
So I hope I can run into him atsome point.
That would be super cool.
Jacob (17:20):
Jason's just going to wait outside his house.
Jason Harwood (17:22):
Exactly.
Jacob (17:23):
Boos!
Jason Harwood (17:24):
did Bruce.
Yeah.
The other guy though, the otherguy that we've talked about
previously is Casey Rogers.
And the more I read about thisguy, I am really excited to have
him as our defensive line coach.
Just.
We've had a lot of defensiveline coaches in here.
Aline McNeil's had a differentone pretty much every year.
But last year's was really good.
(17:45):
And Casey Rogers seems to beanother, another guy that we've
got this step in there.
And is funny.
Casey Rogers was defensivecoordinator when John Morton was
offensive coordinator with theJets.
So
Jacob (17:58):
That's interesting.
So there's some familiaritythere too.
Jason Harwood (18:03):
Yeah,
Jacob (18:04):
Now, is Casey also a run game coordinator?
Is that like a co thing or?
Okay.
Jason Harwood (18:08):
So both Hank Fraley and Casey Rogers have run
game coordinators.
Now, I don't know, if one is, Imean, I assume Casey's is more
on the defensive side, whereasHank's on the offensive side.
But so I don't know how they're,going to be worked out.
Then maybe someone will ask thatquestion.
I think at the combine comingup, the coordinators may Maybe
(18:32):
there.
So they might be able to get, bewriters might be able to get
some, information from them onthat.
Jacob (18:36):
Yeah.
Jason Harwood (18:37):
Not much that's changed on here.
I will say that, to ShayTownsend, our passing passing
coordinator, defensive backscoach, he interviewed outside
for some other coordinatorpositions, but end up staying
back so that, that's good thatwe kept him.
We had, our defensive back playwas much better last year.
I think that was a lot to dowith better talent back there.
(18:58):
Obviously we kept kept him.
We keep changing our defensivebacks coach.
It seems like we change in thatevery year too.
So
Jacob (19:05):
A
Jason Harwood (19:05):
get some
Jacob (19:05):
little bit of continuity.
Real quick.
Just about back to BruceKowalski because he also has NFL
experience.
He's also a former player.
They got, Toias Asopo, was anoffensive assistant too, and he
is another former quarterback.
So we're definitely stickingwith the whole hiring former
players thing a lot too.
Jason Harwood (19:24):
Yep.
Yeah,
Jacob (19:26):
we've had a lot of success with.
Jason Harwood (19:28):
we have, and I don't think the lions just hire
Oh, you're a former player.
You can come coach with us.
Jacob (19:33):
No.
Jason Harwood (19:34):
former players that.
Our good coaches, and I thinkthe former players have just I
think the players just have aneasier time following them or
they're the coaches can relatewith the players because they've
been in that spot before
Jacob (19:51):
Absolutely.
You can't have any player, justcause you're a good player, just
cause you play doesn't make youa good coach.
But you know there are plenty ofgood coaches who have that
experience, and I think thathelps.
Jason Harwood (20:04):
for sure.
Yeah.
Let's not let's not recreate thewheel here.
We've got a good thing going.
Just keep going with it.
All right.
Anything on the outside of thecoaches that you wanted to talk
about?
Jacob (20:15):
No I really David Shaw, also, passing in coordinator.
He's the one that was fromStanford for a while.
Just more knowledge, more coach.
I mean, we got a pretty solidcoaching staff.
Obviously, we have a lot of bignames that we had to replace,
but I'm okay with it.
I feel really good about itgoing into it.
Jason Harwood (20:31):
Yeah, I mean, I don't like losing what we had.
I really liked A.
G., obviously liked Ben Johnson,but also I think that, I feel
like these guys are prepared totake over these roles that
they've inherited.
And like you said before,they're getting talented
rosters.
They're not, it's not likethey're new coaches coming in
(20:51):
and they got to, fix everythingand they just need to keep the
machine rolling.
Jacob (20:56):
Yeah, there's nothing to, you don't have to figure out how
it works.
We know how it works.
Play with it, do what you wantwith it.
Jason Harwood (21:03):
And we still have Dan Campbell that, the ring
leader and he will get everybodyin line and he'll have a good
plan and we'll keep it going.
All right.
Next thing I want to talk aboutreal quickly, FL increased the
seller cap.
They announced that this week,it's going up by.
At least 22 million.
There's still some budgetnumbers to figure out.
So it could go up like another 4million beyond that, but 22
(21:25):
million is, would already be arecord.
So it's going to go up like aone year record last year.
It's going to break last year'srecord.
as of right now, different sitesare projecting different amount
of calf space for the lions.
I usually look at spot track andthey.
Calculate the lines of 48 and ahalf million and calf space next
(21:46):
year, which is a pretty goodspot.
It's in the upper half of theleague, like around 11, a lot of
things could change between nowand then we could cut some
players, whatever contracts,reduce some contracts.
to free up money.
But it's nice to be, instead ofin the saints or the Browns
where they're like 30
Jacob (22:03):
Exactly.
Jason Harwood (22:04):
and they got to shed everything or redo
contracts to get under thatwe're going to be a pretty good
job for flexibility
Jacob (22:12):
This is where you want to be.
Jason Harwood (22:13):
You have to be like under the cap when the
league or search, which is March12th, I believe.
You got to have all that stuffdone and, in the next few weeks
here, whereas the lions havethat, we're already under the
cap.
So we don't, you don't have thattimeline.
Jacob (22:29):
It really makes you wonder, though, how teams get so
far behind like that, and what,how many bad moves you have to
make and set yourself up forthat disaster.
Jason Harwood (22:38):
Yeah I mean, we lived it.
I mean, that whole Nick, I mean,the Dominican Sioux thing where
we just kept redoing theircontracts and we do redoing him
and Stafford at the same time.
And it basically, price
Jacob (22:48):
And who was the GM then?
Jason Harwood (22:50):
Was that Mayhew at that time
Jacob (22:52):
I think so, right?
Jason Harwood (22:53):
yeah, yes.
And, then the Amagans signed fora ridiculous contract.
Never lived up to it with theDolphins.
But that would have been a hardcontract for anyone to live up
to, especially,
Jacob (23:04):
Oh,
Jason Harwood (23:05):
Lyman, like what,
Jacob (23:06):
Sue signed that contract, tax free in Florida, and then
his level of play, his level ofeffort just fell off.
Jason Harwood (23:14):
Yeah.
He wasn't stomping anyone'sheads or anything down there.
Jacob (23:17):
Yeah, he didn't have to.
Jason Harwood (23:19):
No.
Jacob (23:20):
out on the beach.
Jason Harwood (23:21):
Yeah, he was.
right.
So the reason why I bring upthat FL caps off, it kind of
relates to the next two topicsthat we're going to talk about
here.
We can, with the increased capspace, that was kind of
predicted, but maybe not by thismuch.
So it might give the lines alittle more room to resign some
people or sign extensions.
So player that we might sign anextension with right now that
(23:42):
just become eligible this yearis Hutch.
He released a new workout video.
Let's start there.
What did you think about how helooked when he was running?
Jacob (23:50):
I was excited when I saw the video.
I saw him post it.
I was like, okay, yes, and itwasn't a very long video.
It was kind of just like himrunning sprints, but when, when
I saw it, I was like, oh man,there's just, there's no way he
would have been able to play inthe Super Bowl.
That was the way, he was notmoving fluid enough.
I mean, shout out to him forrehabbing the way that he did
and being as far as he is rightnow.
(24:12):
But yeah, that whole Super Bowlquestion where, there was a
chance I don't, based on thatone video, I don't think so.
If they would've let him play,they probably would've been
taking a spot from somebody elseand he would've been very
limited, he wouldn't have beenable to play very many snaps or
anything.
I just don't see it beingpossible.
Jason Harwood (24:30):
Yeah, I don't see it either.
He looked very clunky running.
I mean, he didn't look like.
looked like an athlete that wasinjured, come back and just, and
that was straight line sprintsthat we saw, there was no
cutting,
Jacob (24:43):
Great.
Jason Harwood (24:43):
For him to do what he needs to do.
Would have had the effort.
I know he would have been at,had the effort if he'd been
there, but just.
He would have been limited.
And why would the lines of riskshim getting hurt for, what he
could have played, like what 10snaps at most.
And that would have been, likeyou said, you're taking a spot
from someone else that could bea lot more productive than 35
(25:05):
percent Hutch or whatever
Jacob (25:07):
possibly causing a setback affecting next season,
too, if I'm trying to rush himout there.
Jason Harwood (25:11):
Yeah.
And just for Hutch, why would hewant to risk that?
He's we're just about to talk toin line to sign a contract
extension.
He gets injured again.
That, that could really affect,we would just it could affect
whether we even signed into anextension this year, cause you'd
want to see how he comes backfrom the injury.
Yeah.
So let's talk about it.
(25:33):
When do you think that he'sgoing to sign this fifth year?
I assume this is going to happena fifth year contract extension.
Do you think it's going to,first of all, I'll start there.
Do you think it's going tohappen?
Jacob (25:47):
It's absolutely 100 percent gonna happen.
It has to happen.
No, he's earned it already atthis point.
I don't think that you canreally count this injury against
him.
Jason Harwood (25:56):
yeah.
Do you think it happens beforethe season?
Do you think it's going tohappen early in the season or do
you think it's going to happenbefore the season starts?
Jacob (26:05):
When they did the deal with Sewell, that was, I think
it was right around the drafttime.
Or maybe right after the draft.
I forget.
It was definitely like around
Jason Harwood (26:14):
was cause I'm in Roswell's before the draft was
Sewell's
Jacob (26:19):
so Sewell's was right after
Jason Harwood (26:21):
I am
Jacob (26:21):
I would have to look that up, but there was around that
time.
So I think it's probably goingto be handled the same way,
right?
You find out how much cap spaceyou actually have left.
We find out what we can do, howwe tie in this fifth year with
the contract, how we're going toplay around with that.
I mean, do you think there's anydoubt that it's?
Jason Harwood (26:39):
no, I think what, I think you're right about the
timing of it.
It might even be a little bitlater, just we might.
See how he run, is running.
They may want to see justexactly where he's at, but I
think it'll be before theseason.
We're definitely going toobviously pick up the fifth year
option regardless, becausethat's due May 1st.
So we have to, you have toannounce whether you're going to
(27:00):
pick up a fifth year option,which basically guarantees that
fifth year at a certain salarylevel.
And.
You know that, and it's going tobe an acceptable salary for
Hutch, regardless of whateverAccenture we sign.
However, I see this going down.
The Panay Sewell thing is rightbecause we picked up his
contract with Accenture, butthey kind of rolled everything
(27:21):
into his next contract, whichreally helped his The stabilizer
the cap hit that Penesool isgoing to have for next season
and, for a few other seasons,because they were able, the way
they were able to run thatcontract, which I think that's
what they're going to do withHutch here.
Jacob (27:36):
I mean, I would be shocked if they just let it
like, let's just pick up hisfifth year option.
We'll let this roll out.
I don't know.
I mean, with the injury andeverything, it just wasn't a
knee injury.
He wasn't, ligament damage orwhatever.
It was a broken bone.
I just don't see them.
Holding that against him ordoing anything, just get the
deal done now, especiallybecause let's say we wait,
(27:56):
there's other people going to besigning contracts and stuff.
I'm sure.
When you do sign Hutch, it's gotto be the top dollar, top
contractor near it.
You're only, hurting us bywaiting an extended period of
time, and then you get a couplemore guys signed, and now all of
a sudden you're on the hook fora couple more million every
year.
Jason Harwood (28:13):
Yeah, you're, you've hit the nail on the head
right there.
That's what I was thinking.
Follow the playbook of thesepast signings of Amin Ra.
Penes will be the first so that,you're not paying that
additional premium and don't be.
Don't be the Cowboys.
Don't be the Bengals that justcost you guys millions of
dollars because you're notsigning that player,
Jacob (28:33):
Right.
Jason Harwood (28:34):
you're ruining, you're doing every don't expect
lines to do business that way.
The way the only wild card inall of this is the injury and
the lines will have all theinformation they need.
He's working out at the facilitybecause that's where the running
was right at the practice Sothey'll have all that
information.
It's not like he's working outoff.
Site somewhere else.
(28:54):
And they have to guess wherehe's
Jacob (28:56):
They're not just watching these same videos that we are.
Jason Harwood (28:59):
Yeah.
They, I'm sure that blindscoaches or training staff is
there how he's progressing.
And we all know that Hutch isgoing to work as hard as he can
to get.
And back for next season andprime shape.
So I'm not, that's not what I'mworried about with him.
Jacob (29:15):
Right now his fifth year option, which I don't know if
this is solid set yet, but thefifth year option for him would
be 23.
2 million basically.
And the top edge rusher in termsof average a year is Nick Bosa
at 34 million.
Jason Harwood (29:31):
I mean, you're getting a deal when you look at
what, Hutch healthy last yearwas on pace to break the sack
record.
Jacob (29:37):
Yeah,
Jason Harwood (29:38):
pace to break the pressure created record, he was
gonna, he was on pace for an alltime season, before he got hurt
last year whether he could keepup that pace, I don't know,
because in that game, it wasonly five games and one of those
games was that Tampa Bay gamewhere he had what four and a
half sacks.
I mean, it's hard to, it wouldhave been hard to keep up that
pace, but regardless, he wouldhave been on pace to at least
(30:00):
lead the league in sacks.
that's probably what it garneredhim, defensive player of the
year.
So the injury I'm sure costs hima little, definitely cost him
some money, but it may have justdelayed it a little bit.
Jacob (30:14):
right.
Jason Harwood (30:16):
All right.
So let's talk about the moreinteresting player, whether we
take up the fifth year option,JMO taken in the same draft as
Hutch.
As same question, do you think,first of all, do you think
they're going to pick up theirextension?
Do you think they're going topick up his fifth year
extension?
Jacob (30:32):
I'll go back and forth on this one.
Jamo's fifth year extensionwould be 15 million right now.
And I kind of feel like theymight pick that up and let him
play this one out.
I don't, I would rather themwork something out with him and
do a contract.
But really, when you look at theother, that 15 million, when you
look at the comparable players,that's Courtland Sutton, that's
(30:52):
Tyler Lockett, Jerry Judy, thoseare the people making around
that, that's how much you'd besaving off of that.
So you gotta figure, if you'regonna be signing to a contract,
he's probably gonna be asking atleast 20, 25, right?
And I don't know, I mean, it'sjust a tough call whether we pay
him that.
Jason Harwood (31:10):
Yeah, I
Jacob (31:10):
How are you feeling about it,
Jason Harwood (31:12):
yeah, I definitely got to pick up the
fifth year option because yousaid, you just mentioned the
players that he'd be combinedand salary level definitely
worth that 15 million.
Jacob (31:21):
Ray?
Jason Harwood (31:24):
don't know.
I mean.
I want to say bad luck followshim.
It might be a maturity issue.
There's a lot of things thathave happened that, that would
give me pause, whether to commita ton of money.
I want to see him do it foranother year under a new OC,
under a new wide receiverscoach, I want to see him do it
one more year.
I know that's going to flies inthe face of what we just said
(31:47):
about Hutch's sign them early toget ahead of it, save yourself
some money me.
Hutch is more of a for surething, whereas Jamo is not, and
I'd rather just, rather payextra later on to be sure that
he's going to turn out to be theplayer that we think he has a
possibility of turning out tobe.
Jacob (32:06):
That's the problem with Hutch is that regardless, I
think that Hutch is going to betop paid or near the top paid,
so if that number goes up, thenhis salary goes up.
With Jane Law, I think hissalary probably hovers around
the same thing.
This year, next year, I mean, hewas top 20 in touchdowns.
I think he was almost top 20 inreceiving yards last year, but
you're right.
I think we just need to see moreout of him before we, because we
(32:30):
don't know how much he's askingeither.
If he's asking for 25 or 30million, like that's towards the
top.
That's then you're talking top10 money, then you're getting
closer to Amin Ra who's beenmore productive for longer, it's
going to, it's going to be atough decision that they have to
make with him.
Jason Harwood (32:46):
Yeah, I just don't, as of right now, I would
not trust JMO to go on any otherteam And be a number one wide
receiver.
I just don't, I just don't thinkit works like that for him.
He has questionable things aboutgoing up for 50, 50 balls, and
as he gets older and the speed,maybe decrease.
(33:06):
And his worth will go down alittle bit in my opinion.
Whereas Amin Ra.
It doesn't have that issue, heis going to, he'll play any sort
of, he can play all three ofthose positions, slot X, Z, he
can play any of that and do wellat it.
So I don't really, I don't knowif I want to commit all that
(33:26):
money to JMO and we'll see whatthese plans have, what are we
going to do in the next coupleof years?
Because if we.
Do you know, don't, if we dosign up to the fifth year
option, but don't pick up as anextension, at what point do we
get another wide receiver inhere that can do similar things
to JMO, take the top off thedefense.
Cause you're going to need aplayer like that on the offense.
(33:48):
You need someone that could takethe top off the defense,
Jacob (33:53):
Absolutely.
Do we look at drafting hispotential replacement or just
extra help?
Do we do that this year?
I mean.
Jason Harwood (34:00):
right.
Or is it like, a Brad Holmesspecial where late in the draft,
you just draft someone is goingto be a two year project just to
get him ready.
I don't know, I.
And also it just depends on JMO.
And I think this year withScotty Montgomery, we'll tell a
lot like his maturity level.
It's already, Dan Campbellspeaks about it happening, but
he needs to also maintain thatand keep growing for me to have
(34:24):
confidence in him.
He's a great player.
I want him on his team.
He had, his best year last yearmade some really tough catches.
The hands thing kind of goneaway with me.
What I want to see him developis.
The contestant catches.
That's where I want to see somedevelopment next year.
Even if he's not going to catchit, there are times where he's
(34:46):
just giving up on routes, itseems like, and not and the
other teams are getting easypicks.
You think about the commander'sgame, we're fine.
Kind of gave up on the route.
And then that Vikings game wheregolf Kendra's threw up that
ball, whether Jamo gave up onthe route or anything, but if he
keeps running and least gets inthe defender's face, makes it a
tougher interception.
Jacob (35:08):
Rather than just stop or kind of give up, I mean.
Yeah, you're right.
That wasn't a play where it waslike there was another receiver
behind him.
He knew what that was.
He just knew he was overshot andjust kind of gave up.
Jason Harwood (35:18):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I don't, that's the kind ofstuff that I think I want to see
some more growth for him nextyear.
And I'm sure the coaches are onthere talking about that.
Uh, This deals with J Mo, butthe NFL announced this week that
he won't face the discipline forthe gun incident, so we won't
have that hanging over where hemight miss a few games at the
beginning of the year.
(35:38):
I didn't think that they, he wasgonna, I didn't even, I hadn't
even really thought about thisin a long time, that
Jacob (35:44):
Yeah, I forgot that it happened until I saw the story
that they, he wasn't going toface discipline.
It's oh yeah, that's right.
Jason Harwood (35:50):
Yeah, so that's nice.
So hopefully there's no othersurprises that come up along the
Jacob (35:55):
Exactly.
He just really, we really needhim to have a clean offseason
and clean training camp andInjury free, knock on wood, no
legal trouble, no suspensions,no,
Jason Harwood (36:07):
none of that.
Yeah Let's just have let's getto work and just eat your
McFlurries or whatever the heckhe eats
Jacob (36:16):
why don't you spend more time on the jugs machine with
Amun Ra and just
Jason Harwood (36:19):
Oh
Jacob (36:19):
lay low.
Jason Harwood (36:20):
yeah, our work with Calvin about going up and,
high pointing the ball and,just, that's just what I want to
see him work and, what's betterthan having the best player ever
to do it, high point a ball likethat, obviously Calvin's a freak
of nature, but I'm sure he couldteach a JMO a thing or two.
Jacob (36:39):
Yeah, I just don't think Jamo has enough weight on him to
really like box out or do thatkind of,
Jason Harwood (36:43):
no, but he just needs to just get in there and
do the contested catches.
He can't come.
Yeah.
He won't be able to box out or,push people around.
That's just not gonna, that'snot his
Jacob (36:53):
That comes with the contestant catches too though,
as being, big body and beingable to create separation right
there at the end and, hisseparation is by how fast he is.
Jason Harwood (37:01):
Yeah, no, that's his best weapon.
And that's not going away.
He just needs to, further hisgame.
All right.
NFL combine starts next Monday.
First of all, do you watch it?
Jacob, are you watching all the
Jacob (37:16):
do I definitely don't Die Hard Watch from beginning to
end, but I'm following updatesas it's happening.
I look out for the Michiganplayers absolutely, but then,
just try to look at the topstories, try to see some of the
lower level players that I havemy eye on trying to see.
Trying to see what they'reabout.
I like hearing about theinterviews and stuff like that.
It's funny because, they alwayshave rumors about how poorly
(37:37):
people interview or this orthat.
There's just, there's so muchsmokescreen.
There's so much going on therein Combine that you can't even
tell how much is true.
But, I do the I like it becauseit doesn't usually affect the
Lions, but I like how there'salways one or two players that
do really well at the 40 yarddash, the bench, like one of
those drills, there's somebodythat does really good, and then
(37:59):
all of a sudden they go fromlike late first, second round
pick, to like top ten, and thenpeople are so shocked when these
guys are bust, like what do youeven,
Jason Harwood (38:08):
I know spent, three years, three or four years
watching a player, what theycould do on the field and then
all of a sudden, they bust yourexpectations on the bench press
and suddenly that's going to bethe best player.
Yeah, I mean, that's what Walkerfrom Jacksonville just kept
moving up the board and movepast Hutch, just ignoring what
(38:29):
you just saw from Hutch and, therelentless effort as Calvin
Shepard had said, and you justforget all that and said, Oh,
this guy, demon or whatever.
I'd rather trust a tape.
So you wrote a question, I thinkin here, does the 40 yard dash
or bench press matter to you?
And I think that's what you kindof meant by that.
I mean, that's what you'rewondering whether, you, I
(38:51):
really,
Jacob (38:53):
First, do you see, do you look at those numbers?
Are you intrigued by thosenumbers?
And then do they matter to you?
Jason Harwood (38:59):
Yeah.
So of all, yeah, I mean, it's acompetition.
So yeah, I like to see who'ssuper fast and watching some,
especially when I wish JMo couldhave ran that 40.
The year, because
Jacob (39:10):
Yeah.
Jason Harwood (39:10):
was going to break it, broke the record.
like seeing that.
I love seeing extreme speed, butalso I am not the Oakland
Raiders and be like, Oh, fastestreceiver.
That's who we got to draftbecause there's so many other
things on there.
And think Brad Holmes has talkedabout it.
They use, the GPS data.
The in game speed as more of abarometer than 40 yard dash.
(39:33):
I think that is the 40 yard dashbasically is just a confirmation
for them of a player's speed.
Jacob (39:39):
But you know, it is straight away speed.
So
Jason Harwood (39:44):
It's straight line speed with no pads or
anything on, and yeah, no, noone in your face.
So not as relevant to me, benchpress.
I mean, yes, it's going to showoverall strength, but that
doesn't necessarily mean thatyou have good football instincts
or know how to use your strengthproperly to get proper leverage,
(40:04):
proper technique.
more important than overallbench press, but say you had two
players graded similarly theyhad, you know, more impressive
bench press.
You might be able to, break atie that way.
Jacob (40:18):
You think to do that though?
I mean, I know that like it's apossibility, but do you think
there are teams that really sitdown?
You know what?
We're toss up between player Aand player B, but player A did
30 reps on the bench pressplayer B did 18 reps Do you
think that those conversationsactually happen like that?
Jason Harwood (40:37):
I think conversations like that actually
happened, but I don't thinkthat's a reliable way you should
be drafting, but.
I think everything that they seeat the combine is a confirmation
of what they saw on the tape.
And also it just matters, isthis player prepared?
Did they take this seriously?
I'm sure all that goes into it,but I think for the Lions, the
biggest thing that happens inthis combine is the interviews.
(40:59):
I really
Jacob (41:00):
Yes,
Jason Harwood (41:00):
that's, the interviews, which we don't have.
Access to, until, and we didn'teven see any from last year, but
the previous year when theywould do the inside the den
series, we could see some ofthose interviews.
And those were very interesting.
And I think that's where thelions find out what a player is
made of and whether they'regoing to gel, really.
(41:22):
I think that's the mostimportant thing.
And again, that's not on thefield.
We don't see that.
Jacob (41:27):
and I really like seeing those as well I don't think you
didn't end up watching the hardknocks the the offseason all the
Giants Did you
Jason Harwood (41:33):
No, I did not
Jacob (41:34):
so it showed them when their interview process and it
showed some of the questionsthey ask and show them interview
the different quarterbacks andeverything You would like that,
so you should watch that.
But yeah, I like that insighttoo.
Jason Harwood (41:46):
I have max this year and I did not have that
last year, so I will, I don'tknow who's going to be the off
season one this year, but Iwill.
Jacob (41:53):
After how bad the Giants looked, I would be surprised if
anybody's jumping at the chanceto do that.
Jason Harwood (41:59):
Yeah.
I mean, that's the giant.
So,
Jacob (42:01):
Yeah, we're clear.
Jason Harwood (42:02):
themselves.
Any position groups that you'relooking at checking out.
Jacob (42:08):
Obviously, we'd like to see the edge defenders, just to
see what they have, because Ithink that's the top position of
need for us.
Offensive linemen are in thecombine, but that's one of those
things we just talked aboutyeah, I mean, somebody's gonna
bench 35, 40 reps or somethinglike that, but that doesn't, it
holds no weight for mewhatsoever.
So it's not really interestingto see the offensive linemen,
(42:29):
it's more about seeing theskilled players, and I like
seeing the edge rushers.
Wide receiver is an interestingone for me this year, but I
think most of the ones that aregoing to be high profile wide
receiver names are people goingin the first, round or two, and
that's not, if we're going to bedrafting receiver, it would be
later in the draft.
Jason Harwood (42:45):
Yeah, I don't expect us to be drafting any,
anyone towards the top half ofthe draft for a wide receiver,
although lions do crazy things,
Jacob (42:53):
The right guys there, they fall in love with, maybe,
but,
Jason Harwood (42:56):
they will, but yeah, I don't see that
happening.
Want to say it's going to beoffensive line and, defensive
who knows we could ask, we doneed some secondary help corner,
depending on who we bring backand free agency.
we have a lot while to thinkabout that.
Cause free agency might dictatewho we're going to target in the
draft, but
Jacob (43:16):
right?
Jason Harwood (43:18):
Yeah, I, it'd be interesting to get what the beat
writers have to say.
And I'm more interested ingetting some of the coaching
interview.
And I know Brad Holmes and DanCampbell do some interviews.
we haven't heard from them in awhile, so I do like that.
and Rod would always saysomething about the state of the
lions.
(43:38):
Maybe we'll get some interestingthings that'll happen at Ford
field this year.
We might find out someinformation, so we'll see, that.
Football is football.
Talk is good talk.
So that'll, At
Jacob (43:49):
At the very least, yeah, it's that means the season's
getting closer.
Jason Harwood (43:53):
Yeah.
All right.
Anything else you want to talkabout?
Scott and combine or anythingcoming up.
Jacob (43:58):
Nah.
Jason Harwood (43:59):
All right.
You saw something on tic tacs.
You want to introduce that andwe'll play this little game.
Jacob (44:05):
Yeah, so I saw a TikTok video, gave me an idea to do
this for you, but, The TikTokvideo, I Whatever TikTok profile
was, I guess they do this forNFL teams, They will just show
15 random players from a team,It's, just a picture, there's no
description, It's just a picturefor maybe 3 4 seconds, And you
have to try to guess thatplayer.
And, They were 15 Detroit lions.
(44:27):
They went through, I got 13 outof 15 and I was mad that I
missed the two because theywere, people I should have known
her names.
I should have got I clicked thecomment section and then I saw
people were mad at the original,at the post for the guy, they
said he was listing obscurelions or people he's no one's
heard of before or old playersthat like nobody to follow the
(44:49):
lines now would know.
And I was shocked by thatbecause I knew almost all of
them.
We're not going to be showingpictures here, but I do have,
I'm it's those exact sameplayers that I have on here.
I just have something about thedraft, what number they wore.
And then an interesting factabout them.
And I want you to guess whatplayer it is.
Jason Harwood (45:08):
All
Jacob (45:09):
And I've only got I've only got five or six on here
just to something fun to do.
And I'll tell you the otherplayers that were on the list.
I'll tell you which one I gotwrong.
But
Jason Harwood (45:17):
Okay.
Jacob (45:18):
so this first one is just an example.
He wasn't on the list, but.
You only get one guess.
I'll tell you the three things,you get one guess.
All right.
Holds the Lions record for mostpassing yards by a rookie.
Ruling number three.
Traded from the team in 2006.
Jason Harwood (45:35):
Okay.
Drew Stanton.
I don't know.
Jacob (45:39):
Mmm.
Joey Harrington.
Jason Harwood (45:41):
Oh, Joey Haran.
He holds the record for Oh
Jacob (45:44):
think Stafford came within a hundred yards or two
hundred yards or something likethat, but Stafford played in six
less games.
Jason Harwood (45:50):
Yeah.
Jacob (45:52):
So that's how it's gonna go.
Now you see, that was just myexample one.
Jason Harwood (45:56):
Okay.
Jacob (45:56):
So these next ones are players that were actually on
that list.
Alright, first one, first roundpick in 2009, won numbers 84 and
87, scored the game winningtouchdown against the Browns in
a Stafford shoulder injury game.
Jason Harwood (46:13):
Okay.
Brandon Predick
Jacob (46:15):
Yep, yep.
Next one, third round pick in2008, ran number 92, and set the
Super Bowl record for fastestscorer, I believe the year that
he left.
Jason Harwood (46:33):
Hold on.
Repeat that?
You said,
Jacob (46:36):
So he won number 92, So I'll tell you that, defense,
third round pick in 2008, and heset the Super Bowl record.
The fastest scoring play in theSuper Bowl history.
Jason Harwood (46:46):
Oh, okay.
Oh, man.
Former Lions set the record?
I'm not used to hearing Lions atthe Super Bowl in the
Jacob (46:56):
Yeah, I know.
I was surprised that this was onthere, too.
Jason Harwood (46:59):
Yeah, I don't know.
Who is it?
Jacob (47:01):
So this was Cliff Averill.
Jason Harwood (47:03):
Oh.
Jacob (47:04):
So Cliff Averill went to the Seahawks, and on the first
play of the game, it was likethat bad snap, and they had to
chase it down, and Cliff Averillgot the the, tackled him in the
end zone for a safety.
Yes.
Jason Harwood (47:14):
Manning?
Was that?
Yep, that bad sap right at thebeginning.
Okay, that
Jacob (47:18):
Yeah, it was like the first play of the game.
I think I said it was like 12seconds a clock.
Jason Harwood (47:23):
that Cliff Averill Got that
Jacob (47:24):
Was the one, yeah.
It wasn't a touchdown, it was asafety, so
Jason Harwood (47:28):
safety.
Oh,
Jacob (47:29):
were thinking touchdown, and that's what confused you.
That's okay.
Jason Harwood (47:32):
that.
Jacob (47:33):
This would be much easier for you if you saw the pictures.
I know that, but this is justthe only way we have to do this,
Jason Harwood (47:38):
no, we're good.
Jacob (47:39):
Next one.
Sign So, wasn't drafted with us,but signed with the Lions in
2013.
Row number 27, and he led theleague in interceptions in 2014,
with the Lions.
Jason Harwood (47:53):
What the lines Glover Quinn,
Jacob (47:57):
You got it.
Jason Harwood (47:58):
all Yeah.
Jacob (48:07):
longest rushing touchdown in Lions history.
Of 88 yards.
Jason Harwood (48:13):
Java is Java best.
Jacob (48:16):
Yep, that's it.
Jason Harwood (48:17):
Yep.
couldn't
Jacob (48:18):
I can see you were right there, it took a minute.
Jason Harwood (48:20):
Could not think of the last, I was almost said
bell and I was like, no, that'snot right.
It's best, yeah.
Java best.
That was what, when he scoredthat touchdown, was that the
bears game?
Was that was, When he got
Jacob (48:32):
I don't have that in front of me, I don't remember
when it was.
Jason Harwood (48:36):
just remember him scoring in that game.
That was that Monday night gamewith the Bears.
We started out like crazy andYeah.
Okay.
Alright.
That was a little tangent.
Go on.
Sorry.
Jacob (48:45):
Yeah, no.
We're bringing up memories.
Jason Harwood (48:48):
Yeah.
Jacob (48:49):
Alright, last one.
Undrafted free agent that signedwith the Lions in 2011.
He primarily wore number 35.
And he worked as a securityguard for the Lions training
camp while he was a student atWayne State.
Jason Harwood (49:02):
Oh.
Shoot.
Drake Bell.
Jacob (49:06):
Yeah.
Jason Harwood (49:07):
Yeah.
Jacob (49:07):
You said Bell the last time.
I was like, oh man, it's freshout of his mind, he's gonna get
it now.
Jason Harwood (49:11):
it is, yeah, that's hilarious.
All right.
Jacob (49:13):
Yeah, so those were just the ones that I did that for,
but the other players on thatlist that the pictures were of,
Kevin Smith, Louis Delmas, NateBronson, Nick Fairley, Sean
Hill, Sean Rogers, StephenTellick, Tahir Whitehead, John
Kitna.
Jason Harwood (49:33):
None of those are obscure lions.
Jacob (49:35):
So I was shocked I was shocked that there were people
commenting on there about likehow obscure and they were like
almost mad.
Someone was like, I'm a Lionsfan, I only got three of these.
Like, how?
A Lions fan this year?
I don't understand.
Jason Harwood (49:48):
Yeah.
Maybe when the new lions fans,since we've been winning the
last couple of years and yeah,maybe that was a,
Jacob (49:54):
The ones I got wrong Sorry, what were you saying?
Jason Harwood (49:57):
No, go ahead.
Jacob (49:58):
Oh, the ones I got wrong, Kevin Smith, when I saw the
picture, I said Kevin Jones.
I was like, okay, that's KevinJones.
And it was Kevin Smith, I gotthe name wrong.
And then the other one, TahirWhitehead, they showed the
picture of him and I didn't, didnot recognize him, nothing came
to me at all.
Jason Harwood (50:12):
Yeah, you probably blocked him out because
of his poor linebacker play.
You
Jacob (50:16):
Right.
Jason Harwood (50:16):
him out.
Yeah So knew you're gonna dothis because we talked about it
when I was looking at the sellercap stuff, I found two seller
cap facts that I wanted to quizyou on.
Jacob (50:27):
Oh, okay.
Jason Harwood (50:28):
will be a little different, but
Jacob (50:31):
Salary cap things.
Jason Harwood (50:33):
just see it.
They're just funny thing.
I don't know if you're going toget these or not, but they're
more interesting than anything.
So we'll see lion.
We'll have a 23.
3 million cap hit for the lionsnext year.
It's actually number two behindJared Goff.
23.
Jacob (50:47):
At 23 million.
Jason Harwood (50:49):
3 million cap hit.
Jacob (50:53):
Oh God.
Was
Jason Harwood (50:56):
It's going to shock you.
I don't
Jacob (50:57):
that Panay?
Jason Harwood (50:58):
No, it is Taylor Decker.
when they redid his deal, theyfront loaded this.
Panay is way down the list.
This cap is only like 9.
8 million because of how
Jacob (51:09):
Yeah.
I like that.
Jason Harwood (51:10):
Yep.
So Taylor Decker, 23.
3 million.
So it's just how they'vestructured these deals.
This
Jacob (51:18):
is 9 million right now, how high is Panay's school is
towards the end of thiscontract?
Jason Harwood (51:22):
yeah, I looked at it.
It's yeah, there is rememberwhat Panay, what they did with
Panay is that they rolled us inwith this fourth year deal and
so like they spread.
His signing bonus over sixyears.
So it's, they've, really did asmart deal.
And I think that's what they'regoing to do with Hutch.
Jacob (51:40):
Yeah, I hope so.
Jason Harwood (51:41):
My next one, this is my last one I have for you.
This former lion will count 6.
5 million against the cap thisyear.
Former lion.
Jacob (51:51):
for us.
You mean, or just
Jason Harwood (51:52):
lion.
he is.
will count 6.
5 million.
So he's basically dead cap moneyfor the lions this year.
Jacob (52:04):
I don't remember anybody that we traded.
Was it Sutton?
Jason Harwood (52:07):
It is Sutton.
Yeah.
Jacob (52:09):
Oh, okay.
Jason Harwood (52:10):
right now is Carleton Davis.
He is cause they were, theyrestructured his deal last year.
He's got a 9.
5 million cap hit dead money.
Yeah.
Yeah, Cameron Sutton stillcosting six and a half million.
Now there's,
Jacob (52:23):
avoided?
Are we still,
Jason Harwood (52:24):
there is, we're still in conflict about getting
some money back.
So that may be lowered and wemay be able to get some
additional cap money.
And we talked about this podcastlast summer when lines are still
filing for that.
It's still taking, takesforever.
And I don't know
Jacob (52:39):
of course,
Jason Harwood (52:39):
takes So yeah.
So we'll get back I think lateron this summer, we'll get back
and do the Honolulu blitz andhave questions like this, but
that
Jacob (52:47):
It was fun doing that again.
Jason Harwood (52:49):
Yeah, definitely put put you on the hot seat, but
I wasn't planning on doinganything with you.
Cause I thought we'd just dothose questions for me.
But when I saw those capnumbers, I thought that was
pretty interesting.
I thought Taylor Decker onereally surprised me.
Jacob (53:06):
Yeah.
I did not see that
Jason Harwood (53:08):
Yeah.
Right, man, anything right now,I think it's two, two, going to
the third period for this Canadaline or Canada, USA.
Jacob (53:19):
a couple more minutes before they start.
Jason Harwood (53:21):
yeah,
Jacob (53:21):
I didn't see who scored for Canada.
Jason Harwood (53:23):
I didn't, I saw them celebrating and yeah, I
wanted to throw something, butwe're in this podcast I I want
to encourage everybody that'slistening next, on Tuesday when
we release the Fantasy PlayDrop.
It'll be a great way of uslooking back at the season.
I think it's going to be a lotof fun.
I'm curious how it's all goingto work out.
And hopefully it just, hopefullyI didn't jinx it by talking
(53:44):
about it too much today.
Jacob (53:45):
Yeah.
Jason Harwood (53:46):
get everybody healthy and we can do this.
All right, Jacob, I think we gotanother podcast in the books
here.
We always think, how are wegoing to talk?
And then we end up talking foran hour, which is, it's always
fun talking lines, talking
Jacob (53:58):
Dammit, it's not hard to talk football.
Jason Harwood (54:00):
No, it is not sound even like that hard to
even come up with these topics.
So yeah, hopefully we We have alot to talk about, before we
know it, free agency is going tobe here.
That's three weeks away, whichis crazy because then there'll
be a lot to talk about for awhile.
Just not only with lions, butthe NFL who we lost who we've
gained hopefully.
(54:20):
And yeah, there'll be plenty totalk about then.
And then right behind that wouldbe draft talk.
Jacob (54:26):
Can't wait.
Thank you.
Jason Harwood (54:28):
All right.
For Jacob, I'm Jason, let's golions.
Welcome back to Talking Grit.
I'm Jason Harwood and with me isJacob Litton.
I want to apologize for ourscheduled podcasts on Monday.
Sicknesses and schedulesdefinitely got in the way.
We have to postpone our plannedpodcast, was the Fancy Play
Draft.
And we're going to be recordingthat, Monday night.
So it'll be out Tuesday morning.
Jacob (01:03):
Let's say next week,
Jason Harwood (01:04):
huh?
Jacob (01:05):
you're putting pressure on us.
You're putting pressure on us bytelling them the day
Jason Harwood (01:08):
Yeah, I know.
Hopefully everything works outwith all four of us.
Getting four people together atonce is Sometimes difficult
during this time of year.
Miko and Morgan will both bejoining us.
It's enough about next week'sshow.
Let's talk about this week'sshow.
first I'll start off with Jacob,how you been?
Jacob (01:25):
I'm all right, man.
It's the downtime of the seasonthough.
It's far enough away, thescouting combines coming up.
We got that to look forward to,but it's far enough away from
the draft and free agency,starting everything.
It's just the downtime.
Jason Harwood (01:36):
I don't know.
It hasn't helped that, the bothbasketball and hockey have been
on their break, at least,hockey's had this four nations
tournament, which has beenpretty fun to watch, but I'm
ready to get back to Detroitsports, Pistons game tomorrow
night.
So that'll be fun.
I
Jacob (01:51):
Absolutely good.
Detroit sports too.
I mean, they
Jason Harwood (01:55):
know
Jacob (01:56):
are playing well.
Jason Harwood (01:57):
it wasn't too long ago, Jacob, that none of
our teams were worth a darn.
And now there's a possibilitythat all four of them could make
the playoffs.
Jacob (02:06):
Yeah.
I don't know what year it was,but it was, it could have been
when we were oh, and 16, butthere was one year where they
like combined all the records orall the winning percentages from
all the cities that have thefour major teams and we were the
worst by a long shot,
Jason Harwood (02:21):
Yeah,
Jacob (02:22):
just rubbing it in.
Jason Harwood (02:24):
It just seemed like for a while, then even
Michigan football was not doinggood.
And it was just a downtime andsports.
And for me as a huge sports fan,It was tough to stomach and now
we've gone on a streak ofbeating Ohio state over and over
again and right away starting toplay well, especially since the
coaching change and Pistons havebeen surprisingly well.
(02:44):
And then it's not to mention theTigers, like 0.
1 percent playoff chance runthat they had at the end of the
year.
That was crazy exciting.
And of course the Lions that wefollow so much that, been
playing really well for thebetter part of two and a half
years.
Jacob (03:00):
I wonder like how many of the listeners are just, Detroit
sports fans or how many because,we had a couple of people on
there they liked the lions, butthey may not like the tigers or
they don't roll with the pistonsor, Dusty from Green Bay, he's a
Packers fan, but he actuallyfollowed the Tigers.
So
Jason Harwood (03:15):
Yeah.
I just can't, I have a hard timerelating to that.
I just, I, you and I are bothjust Michigan Detroit fans fans
that cherry pick or, I don'twant to say cherry pick, but
just have fans
Jacob (03:29):
cherry pickles are fighting words.
Jason Harwood (03:31):
they are, I guess the cherry picking like, Oh Oh,
I'm, like a lot of my son's age.
Yeah.
Friends are all like 49ers andchiefs fans.
I think that maybe like some ofthose people, that's when they
started loving the sport, thatwas a good team.
So they followed them.
I guess that's probably how thathappened.
Or maybe it's a parent likes oneor the other, but for me, I just
(03:51):
grew up.
My parents just love Detroitteams.
And that wasn't great to me and,bad you can't get your kids to
follow suit, man.
Jacob (03:59):
I know my parents were not into sports.
They didn't watch sports.
I had to do this on my own.
I had to develop this heartbreakon my own.
Nobody led me to this.
Jason Harwood (04:10):
so how did you get into sports?
If your parents weren't into it,was it friends or other family
members or?
Jacob (04:16):
Honestly, like this, the first, probably they started me
in T box.
It was something to do.
And I was just always, I lovesports.
I was always really good atsports and it was just like, so
those things, this is what Irelate to the most.
So now life revolves aroundsports and I'm okay with that.
Jason Harwood (04:32):
No, it's like the first reality TV, really, when
you think about it, like you gotthis, you got all these
storylines and you're playing,it's real stuff and real people.
People in real players and justit's fun.
I can't imagine my life withoutsports.
And for a while, I didn't thinkthat my boys were going to be
into sports, but they totallyare.
(04:52):
And I'm living my dream as asports dad.
Jacob (04:56):
It's a good feeling to have them.
Be into sports, and JJ likes tosee news stories and sports
things and he'll share updatesand stuff.
Just unfortunately for me, Ihave to deal with JJ liking the
Dolphins and the Heat and teamsthat are not mine.
At least everybody likes all thesame teams in your house,
Jason Harwood (05:13):
That's right.
I come home with, dad, did youknow this dad, did you know
that?
And then after I get through thenews of the day or whatever
they've learned since, they'vegotten home from school, then I
learned about new Madden ratingsand stuff that is not majorly
important in my life, but it'sfun nonetheless to just talk any
sort of sports with my kids.
So I I don't take that forgranted at all.
Jacob (05:36):
for sure.
Jason Harwood (05:37):
All right, let's get on talking about the Lions
this week.
The Lions announced their fullcoaching staff.
You and I are not going to goover this extensive list.
We're going to just kind of hitthe highlights, but before we
get all started in that DanMiller interviewed the new OC
and the new DC.
You and I both watch thoseinterviews.
I'm going to start with you.
We'll start with John Morton.
(05:59):
you have any impressions fromthe interview or what caught
your eye or your ear from thatinterview with Dan Miller?
Jacob (06:05):
I mean, obviously with any coach, you expect them to,
talk about the team and talkabout what they hope to bring to
the team and everything.
But in this case, what I caughtfrom that was just, he's from
Michigan, right?
His family's from Michigan.
He grew up rooting for thelions.
His family's all still here.
He was here just a few shortyears ago, It really means more
to him.
It's really in there.
He knows what it's about.
(06:27):
You don't have to, some of theseguys, you have to learn about
what Detroit's about.
You have to learn about whatthings are like here, what the
people are like here.
And, it was cool hearing himtalk about that.
He's from here and he's all in.
And I like that.
Jason Harwood (06:39):
it.
I looked it up, he went toWestern Michigan University.
I actually went to WesternMichigan University for a while.
And yeah, just that stuck out tome too.
Like the Michigan connection heknows what it would mean to the
city, just like Aiden Hutchinsonknows that.
Like just being from this area,having to live through all that.
He's gonna, And hopefully he'sgoing to provide a, the things
(07:01):
that I took from it, other thanthe Michigan connection was,
that he's, it starts with JG.
It starts with Jared Goff.
He said, and he's already got aprior relationship with Jared
Goff.
The cool thing about this isMorton's already developed.
Relationship with these players.
I mean, he has a new OC comingin.
He's been a part of this, the,he was right from the get going,
(07:21):
Ben Johnson to God OC.
He saw it being built from theground up.
He made, not in here.
He said, it's not broken.
I'm not in here to fix anything.
I'm in here to enhance things,to make it better.
And he can make it better.
I.
I don't, I'm not saying that BenJohnson was a bad coach or
(07:42):
anything like that.
Loved him here, but I think hecould take it a step further or
they could do different things.
We, if anyone had a beat on whatBen Johnson was going to do,
that's going to change a littlebit.
Cause now play calling is goingto change a little bit with
Morton back there.
And he did confirm John Mortonis calling the plays.
Cause there was talk about,whether Dan Campbell was going
(08:02):
to call the plays, Mortonconfirmed that he is calling the
place.
Jacob (08:06):
Yeah, he seemed excited about that, putting that out
there too.
He is going to be the onecalling the plays.
I think he actually reflected onthe last time that he did that
for the Jets and how differentthe situation is here.
With us being established likethat already, all the pieces are
already in place, I mean.
Really, when you think aboutthat's just the best situation
for a coach to come into.
You don't really have to,changes are not 100 percent
(08:29):
necessary.
You don't have drastic thingsthat you need to fix right now
before you can get on the field.
Jason Harwood (08:34):
Yeah the thing is, it's just the pressure,
right?
He's got to live up to thisjuggernaut of an offense and,
there probably will be a littlebit of growing pains, I feel,
but hopefully, they can work alot of that kink out in the off
season, as opposed to in theseason.
You mentioned, I want to go backto something you just mentioned
about his, he was an OC.
(08:56):
So if you look back as a recordas an OC, maybe it's not
impressive, but when I mentionedwho his quarterback was, it was
Josh McCown.
His running backs were a guythat you've probably never heard
of, Billy O'Power.
His two main
Jacob (09:10):
Powell,
Jason Harwood (09:11):
were Powell.
Is it Powell?
Okay.
Jacob (09:13):
Belal Powell.
Jason Harwood (09:14):
Yeah.
And Jermaine curse.
Jacob (09:16):
I've never heard of Belal Powell because he doesn't exist.
Jason Harwood (09:19):
He doesn't exist here.
Jacob (09:20):
Jason's just making up names.
Jason Harwood (09:22):
I know.
I just wanted the last name tobe power.
That would be awesome.
I Last.
Jacob (09:26):
but you know, that is cool.
Jason Harwood (09:27):
The, just to go to a huge tangent here, there
was a Simpson's episode whereHomer changes things to max
power and that'd be a great nameto have.
But anyways the two widereceivers were Jermaine curse
and Robbie chosen.
So not a murderer's row ofoffensive talent there.
He's going to have much bettertalent coming here to Detroit.
Jacob (09:50):
Definitely.
I mean, night and day when youlook at those situations.
Jason Harwood (09:55):
yes, exactly.
Now, of my opinion, this is themore interesting interview of
the two.
I think Kelvin Shepard is anamazing talker.
I want to run through a wall forhim already.
He's just that kind of person.
So what hit you about the KelvinShepard interview, our new
defensive coordinator interviewwith Dan Miller?
Jacob (10:16):
The first was just like the loyalty that he's already
showing to the lions and DanCampbell and just, him talking
about, he was open about havingother opportunities elsewhere
and him wanting to stay here,him wanting to ride this one out
and, he's earned it, right?
He's earned this shot.
It's awesome that he was able tostay here and get the chance to
be here.
I think he made a joke likewe'll just be co head coaches
(10:37):
with Dan Campbell once that timecomes.
No, yeah, but that's just what Igot out of it is the loyalty and
everything.
We already know what Shep'sabout, but what were your first
thoughts?
Jason Harwood (10:47):
Yeah I'm just like mesmerized when he talks, I
just listen to it.
Is so inspiring a player, he hasthe Detroit roots, just Morton
did, he did, chefs been here asa player.
He knows what this town's about.
He's been here for the last fewyears coaching.
He definitely knows he's notgoing to come in here and.
Just change everything.
(11:08):
He's just going to, again, makeit grow and make it his own.
I, he mentioned Terry andArnold's name twice in that
interview that you caught.
He mentioned it early on.
And then when they, Dan Millerasked him about players, that
they could make a big jump.
Terry and Arnold was the firstname out of his mouth.
So I'm excited by that.
I think he sees a potentialthere.
(11:30):
He also mentioned Brian branchas having a potential to grow.
What did you think about that?
That, that stuck out to me.
Jacob (11:39):
I mean, if the ceiling gets any higher, that already is
one of the best graphics we'vegotten for him.
Jason Harwood (11:44):
Yes, what's funny is that he mentioned, I don't
know if you caught it, but hementioned BB's growth from the
neck up, meaning, his footballknowledge.
He has tons of instinct.
He's obviously a great athlete,but if, Calvin Shepard think
that there's more room to growand how we can, change the game.
I, love to see it.
(12:04):
If he makes another big jump,that'd be great.
Jacob (12:07):
No, absolutely.
Jason Harwood (12:08):
Yeah.
And then you mentioned theloyalty.
He mentioned AG.
And how AG like basicallyprepared him for this job that
AG pushed him out and he woulddo more talks with the team and
stuff that he said otherdefensive coordinators, they
want all their time with theplayers and the position coaches
are kind of sidelined.
didn't do that.
He pushed those guys out there.
(12:29):
And I think that's going to makeCalvin Shepard more prepared for
this job.
Jacob (12:34):
Yes.
I mean, shouts out to AG forthat too.
He seemed like he just dideverything the right way.
Jason Harwood (12:40):
What I'm going to quiz you.
What would he, what did CalvinShepard say was non negotiable
in his defense?
Do you remember what the termwas that he used?
Jacob (12:49):
I do not remember that.
Jason Harwood (12:51):
Relentless effort, which I loved.
I loved hearing that.
And he said, that's nonnegotiable.
And.
Jacob (13:00):
for it.
Jason Harwood (13:01):
I'm all for that.
And I also, the other thing thatI love, he talked about the
toughness in the trenches and hesaid, he likes, he tells the
team, you have to earn theright.
To rush the passer.
what he means by that is thatyou have to stop him on first
and second down so that youcould get them in that passing
situation so that you could justpin your ears back and go to, go
(13:23):
after the quarterback.
liked that.
I mean, it's not much differentwith AGA or what Dan Cabell has
preached before, stop the run.
then, put them in an obviouspassing situation, and then, you
have, you better your chance ifyou eliminate 50 percent of the
plays that they can call.
Jacob (13:40):
That's the name of the game, right?
Jason Harwood (13:43):
So I'm excited.
I'm really glad that they hiredShep for this position.
We'll see how it all turns out.
I'm sure there'll be somegrowing pains with both of them,
but I'm happy to have Shep on,for our defensive coordinator.
Jacob (13:56):
Yeah, that's to be expected, obviously.
The growing pains.
Not everything's gonna clickright away.
Not everything's gonna workright away.
We still have a really goodroster to build around and to do
these things with, but peoplehave to be patient, too.
Give up, a bunch of yards orsome big plays or something like
that.
Let's not call for Shep's Heador, it's just inevitable that
people are gonna do that.
Jason Harwood (14:15):
And then also sometimes it's just a pl a
player missing a play.
It's not necessarily thedefensive coordinator.
So it for us is, you, we have towatch, you have to watch a lot
of tape and you have to, s see alot to make the right call on
that.
And then just listen to the,what the coaches say afterwards.
'cause a lot of times it is on aplayer being outta position I'm,
(14:37):
I don't know about you, Jacob,but I'm watching the four
nations thing right now and
Jacob (14:41):
Yeah, I got it.
Jason Harwood (14:42):
goal.
We're up
Jacob (14:42):
I
Jason Harwood (14:43):
good update.
Anyways there's been along withthose two big changes, it was
seeing the DC, there was someother changes throughout the
lineup.
We're not going to go througheverything.
Scotty Montgomery now is goingto be the wide receivers coach.
Which I kind of curious howthat's going to be with JMO
because Scotty Montgomery seemsto be, a down to business guy.
(15:05):
that would be, just another,mentor voice for JMO.
So I'm happy about that.
But the guy that I think bothyou and I want to talk about is
Tashard Choice, the running, thenew running backs coach.
What did you want to talk aboutwith him?
Jacob (15:19):
mean, just, he has NFL experience, obviously.
So this is another former playerthat we're bringing in here, but
he also, has a alreadyestablished relationship with
Jameer Gibbs.
He was coaching at Georgia techwhen Jameer Gibbs was in there,
he also coached at Texas.
So he saw Bijan Robinson so he'shad some good running backs
underneath him already.
And I just, I think we both feelthe same way about having the
(15:40):
former players in here.
That are able to coach as well.
I think that's just huge.
So I really like that movethere.
Jason Harwood (15:47):
Yeah, I like that move, too.
He's also, to Shard Choice, islike best friends with Calvin
Shepard.
And Calvin Shepard said in hisinterview that, he told to Shard
Choice, Just wait till you getin here.
This is unlike you'd have everseen just that collaborative
effort.
I think he's talking about withthe lions organization.
So it sounds like we got somegood talent there.
(16:10):
And I like, like you mentionedthe experience with Jamir Gibbs.
I'm sure they picked Jamir Gibbsbrain about it.
I think.
Did on the Amun Ra podcast orwas it a, I don't know if it was
Amun Ra or it was anotherpodcast Gibbs talked about that
Tushar Choice was like a reasonwhy he went to Georgia Tech just
to work under him.
Jacob (16:32):
That could have been on there, the St.
Brown podcast.
I did not hear that though.
Jason Harwood (16:36):
Yeah I don't know exactly what podcast, but I know
that he had talked about, um.
Working together.
So
Jacob (16:43):
I mean, if he's able to get the best out of Gibbs and
take him to another level too, Imean, my God,
Jason Harwood (16:48):
I know.
Yeah.
And if he gets, if Gibbs goes toanother level, then you're,
Jacob (16:55):
that's almost unfair.
Jason Harwood (16:56):
it is, yeah, for other teams, but totally
Jacob (16:59):
Yeah.
Jason Harwood (17:00):
Fraley, they added run Gabe coordinator to
his title.
That was probably mostly to keephim here.
He was interviewing out outside.
Just quickly, Bruce Gretkowski,former Toledo quarterback is now
offensive assistant.
lives pretty close to us.
So I hope I can run into him atsome point.
That would be super cool.
Jacob (17:20):
Jason's just going to wait outside his house.
Jason Harwood (17:22):
Exactly.
Jacob (17:23):
Boos!
Jason Harwood (17:24):
did Bruce.
Yeah.
The other guy though, the otherguy that we've talked about
previously is Casey Rogers.
And the more I read about thisguy, I am really excited to have
him as our defensive line coach.
Just.
We've had a lot of defensiveline coaches in here.
Aline McNeil's had a differentone pretty much every year.
But last year's was really good.
(17:45):
And Casey Rogers seems to beanother, another guy that we've
got this step in there.
And is funny.
Casey Rogers was defensivecoordinator when John Morton was
offensive coordinator with theJets.
So
Jacob (17:58):
That's interesting.
So there's some familiaritythere too.
Jason Harwood (18:03):
Yeah,
Jacob (18:04):
Now, is Casey also a run game coordinator?
Is that like a co thing or?
Okay.
Jason Harwood (18:08):
So both Hank Fraley and Casey Rogers have run
game coordinators.
Now, I don't know, if one is, Imean, I assume Casey's is more
on the defensive side, whereasHank's on the offensive side.
But so I don't know how they're,going to be worked out.
Then maybe someone will ask thatquestion.
I think at the combine comingup, the coordinators may Maybe
(18:32):
there.
So they might be able to get, bewriters might be able to get
some, information from them onthat.
Jacob (18:36):
Yeah.
Jason Harwood (18:37):
Not much that's changed on here.
I will say that, to ShayTownsend, our passing passing
coordinator, defensive backscoach, he interviewed outside
for some other coordinatorpositions, but end up staying
back so that, that's good thatwe kept him.
We had, our defensive back playwas much better last year.
I think that was a lot to dowith better talent back there.
(18:58):
Obviously we kept kept him.
We keep changing our defensivebacks coach.
It seems like we change in thatevery year too.
So
Jacob (19:05):
A
Jason Harwood (19:05):
get some
Jacob (19:05):
little bit of continuity.
Real quick.
Just about back to BruceKowalski because he also has NFL
experience.
He's also a former player.
They got, Toias Asopo, was anoffensive assistant too, and he
is another former quarterback.
So we're definitely stickingwith the whole hiring former
players thing a lot too.
Jason Harwood (19:24):
Yep.
Yeah,
Jacob (19:26):
we've had a lot of success with.
Jason Harwood (19:28):
we have, and I don't think the lions just hire
Oh, you're a former player.
You can come coach with us.
Jacob (19:33):
No.
Jason Harwood (19:34):
former players that.
Our good coaches, and I thinkthe former players have just I
think the players just have aneasier time following them or
they're the coaches can relatewith the players because they've
been in that spot before
Jacob (19:51):
Absolutely.
You can't have any player, justcause you're a good player, just
cause you play doesn't make youa good coach.
But you know there are plenty ofgood coaches who have that
experience, and I think thathelps.
Jason Harwood (20:04):
for sure.
Yeah.
Let's not let's not recreate thewheel here.
We've got a good thing going.
Just keep going with it.
All right.
Anything on the outside of thecoaches that you wanted to talk
about?
Jacob (20:15):
No I really David Shaw, also, passing in coordinator.
He's the one that was fromStanford for a while.
Just more knowledge, more coach.
I mean, we got a pretty solidcoaching staff.
Obviously, we have a lot of bignames that we had to replace,
but I'm okay with it.
I feel really good about itgoing into it.
Jason Harwood (20:31):
Yeah, I mean, I don't like losing what we had.
I really liked A.
G., obviously liked Ben Johnson,but also I think that, I feel
like these guys are prepared totake over these roles that
they've inherited.
And like you said before,they're getting talented
rosters.
They're not, it's not likethey're new coaches coming in
(20:51):
and they got to, fix everythingand they just need to keep the
machine rolling.
Jacob (20:56):
Yeah, there's nothing to, you don't have to figure out how
it works.
We know how it works.
Play with it, do what you wantwith it.
Jason Harwood (21:03):
And we still have Dan Campbell that, the ring
leader and he will get everybodyin line and he'll have a good
plan and we'll keep it going.
All right.
Next thing I want to talk aboutreal quickly, FL increased the
seller cap.
They announced that this week,it's going up by.
At least 22 million.
There's still some budgetnumbers to figure out.
So it could go up like another 4million beyond that, but 22
(21:25):
million is, would already be arecord.
So it's going to go up like aone year record last year.
It's going to break last year'srecord.
as of right now, different sitesare projecting different amount
of calf space for the lions.
I usually look at spot track andthey.
Calculate the lines of 48 and ahalf million and calf space next
(21:46):
year, which is a pretty goodspot.
It's in the upper half of theleague, like around 11, a lot of
things could change between nowand then we could cut some
players, whatever contracts,reduce some contracts.
to free up money.
But it's nice to be, instead ofin the saints or the Browns
where they're like 30
Jacob (22:03):
Exactly.
Jason Harwood (22:04):
and they got to shed everything or redo
contracts to get under thatwe're going to be a pretty good
job for flexibility
Jacob (22:12):
This is where you want to be.
Jason Harwood (22:13):
You have to be like under the cap when the
league or search, which is March12th, I believe.
You got to have all that stuffdone and, in the next few weeks
here, whereas the lions havethat, we're already under the
cap.
So we don't, you don't have thattimeline.
Jacob (22:29):
It really makes you wonder, though, how teams get so
far behind like that, and what,how many bad moves you have to
make and set yourself up forthat disaster.
Jason Harwood (22:38):
Yeah I mean, we lived it.
I mean, that whole Nick, I mean,the Dominican Sioux thing where
we just kept redoing theircontracts and we do redoing him
and Stafford at the same time.
And it basically, price
Jacob (22:48):
And who was the GM then?
Jason Harwood (22:50):
Was that Mayhew at that time
Jacob (22:52):
I think so, right?
Jason Harwood (22:53):
yeah, yes.
And, then the Amagans signed fora ridiculous contract.
Never lived up to it with theDolphins.
But that would have been a hardcontract for anyone to live up
to, especially,
Jacob (23:04):
Oh,
Jason Harwood (23:05):
Lyman, like what,
Jacob (23:06):
Sue signed that contract, tax free in Florida, and then
his level of play, his level ofeffort just fell off.
Jason Harwood (23:14):
Yeah.
He wasn't stomping anyone'sheads or anything down there.
Jacob (23:17):
Yeah, he didn't have to.
Jason Harwood (23:19):
No.
Jacob (23:20):
out on the beach.
Jason Harwood (23:21):
Yeah, he was.
right.
So the reason why I bring upthat FL caps off, it kind of
relates to the next two topicsthat we're going to talk about
here.
We can, with the increased capspace, that was kind of
predicted, but maybe not by thismuch.
So it might give the lines alittle more room to resign some
people or sign extensions.
So player that we might sign anextension with right now that
(23:42):
just become eligible this yearis Hutch.
He released a new workout video.
Let's start there.
What did you think about how helooked when he was running?
Jacob (23:50):
I was excited when I saw the video.
I saw him post it.
I was like, okay, yes, and itwasn't a very long video.
It was kind of just like himrunning sprints, but when, when
I saw it, I was like, oh man,there's just, there's no way he
would have been able to play inthe Super Bowl.
That was the way, he was notmoving fluid enough.
I mean, shout out to him forrehabbing the way that he did
and being as far as he is rightnow.
(24:12):
But yeah, that whole Super Bowlquestion where, there was a
chance I don't, based on thatone video, I don't think so.
If they would've let him play,they probably would've been
taking a spot from somebody elseand he would've been very
limited, he wouldn't have beenable to play very many snaps or
anything.
I just don't see it beingpossible.
Jason Harwood (24:30):
Yeah, I don't see it either.
He looked very clunky running.
I mean, he didn't look like.
looked like an athlete that wasinjured, come back and just, and
that was straight line sprintsthat we saw, there was no
cutting,
Jacob (24:43):
Great.
Jason Harwood (24:43):
For him to do what he needs to do.
Would have had the effort.
I know he would have been at,had the effort if he'd been
there, but just.
He would have been limited.
And why would the lines of riskshim getting hurt for, what he
could have played, like what 10snaps at most.
And that would have been, likeyou said, you're taking a spot
from someone else that could bea lot more productive than 35
(25:05):
percent Hutch or whatever
Jacob (25:07):
possibly causing a setback affecting next season,
too, if I'm trying to rush himout there.
Jason Harwood (25:11):
Yeah.
And just for Hutch, why would hewant to risk that?
He's we're just about to talk toin line to sign a contract
extension.
He gets injured again.
That, that could really affect,we would just it could affect
whether we even signed into anextension this year, cause you'd
want to see how he comes backfrom the injury.
Yeah.
So let's talk about it.
(25:33):
When do you think that he'sgoing to sign this fifth year?
I assume this is going to happena fifth year contract extension.
Do you think it's going to,first of all, I'll start there.
Do you think it's going tohappen?
Jacob (25:47):
It's absolutely 100 percent gonna happen.
It has to happen.
No, he's earned it already atthis point.
I don't think that you canreally count this injury against
him.
Jason Harwood (25:56):
yeah.
Do you think it happens beforethe season?
Do you think it's going tohappen early in the season or do
you think it's going to happenbefore the season starts?
Jacob (26:05):
When they did the deal with Sewell, that was, I think
it was right around the drafttime.
Or maybe right after the draft.
I forget.
It was definitely like around
Jason Harwood (26:14):
was cause I'm in Roswell's before the draft was
Sewell's
Jacob (26:19):
so Sewell's was right after
Jason Harwood (26:21):
I am
Jacob (26:21):
I would have to look that up, but there was around that
time.
So I think it's probably goingto be handled the same way,
right?
You find out how much cap spaceyou actually have left.
We find out what we can do, howwe tie in this fifth year with
the contract, how we're going toplay around with that.
I mean, do you think there's anydoubt that it's?
Jason Harwood (26:39):
no, I think what, I think you're right about the
timing of it.
It might even be a little bitlater, just we might.
See how he run, is running.
They may want to see justexactly where he's at, but I
think it'll be before theseason.
We're definitely going toobviously pick up the fifth year
option regardless, becausethat's due May 1st.
So we have to, you have toannounce whether you're going to
(27:00):
pick up a fifth year option,which basically guarantees that
fifth year at a certain salarylevel.
And.
You know that, and it's going tobe an acceptable salary for
Hutch, regardless of whateverAccenture we sign.
However, I see this going down.
The Panay Sewell thing is rightbecause we picked up his
contract with Accenture, butthey kind of rolled everything
(27:21):
into his next contract, whichreally helped his The stabilizer
the cap hit that Penesool isgoing to have for next season
and, for a few other seasons,because they were able, the way
they were able to run thatcontract, which I think that's
what they're going to do withHutch here.
Jacob (27:36):
I mean, I would be shocked if they just let it
like, let's just pick up hisfifth year option.
We'll let this roll out.
I don't know.
I mean, with the injury andeverything, it just wasn't a
knee injury.
He wasn't, ligament damage orwhatever.
It was a broken bone.
I just don't see them.
Holding that against him ordoing anything, just get the
deal done now, especiallybecause let's say we wait,
(27:56):
there's other people going to besigning contracts and stuff.
I'm sure.
When you do sign Hutch, it's gotto be the top dollar, top
contractor near it.
You're only, hurting us bywaiting an extended period of
time, and then you get a couplemore guys signed, and now all of
a sudden you're on the hook fora couple more million every
year.
Jason Harwood (28:13):
Yeah, you're, you've hit the nail on the head
right there.
That's what I was thinking.
Follow the playbook of thesepast signings of Amin Ra.
Penes will be the first so that,you're not paying that
additional premium and don't be.
Don't be the Cowboys.
Don't be the Bengals that justcost you guys millions of
dollars because you're notsigning that player,
Jacob (28:33):
Right.
Jason Harwood (28:34):
you're ruining, you're doing every don't expect
lines to do business that way.
The way the only wild card inall of this is the injury and
the lines will have all theinformation they need.
He's working out at the facilitybecause that's where the running
was right at the practice Sothey'll have all that
information.
It's not like he's working outoff.
Site somewhere else.
(28:54):
And they have to guess wherehe's
Jacob (28:56):
They're not just watching these same videos that we are.
Jason Harwood (28:59):
Yeah.
They, I'm sure that blindscoaches or training staff is
there how he's progressing.
And we all know that Hutch isgoing to work as hard as he can
to get.
And back for next season andprime shape.
So I'm not, that's not what I'mworried about with him.
Jacob (29:15):
Right now his fifth year option, which I don't know if
this is solid set yet, but thefifth year option for him would
be 23.
2 million basically.
And the top edge rusher in termsof average a year is Nick Bosa
at 34 million.
Jason Harwood (29:31):
I mean, you're getting a deal when you look at
what, Hutch healthy last yearwas on pace to break the sack
record.
Jacob (29:37):
Yeah,
Jason Harwood (29:38):
pace to break the pressure created record, he was
gonna, he was on pace for an alltime season, before he got hurt
last year whether he could keepup that pace, I don't know,
because in that game, it wasonly five games and one of those
games was that Tampa Bay gamewhere he had what four and a
half sacks.
I mean, it's hard to, it wouldhave been hard to keep up that
pace, but regardless, he wouldhave been on pace to at least
(30:00):
lead the league in sacks.
that's probably what it garneredhim, defensive player of the
year.
So the injury I'm sure costs hima little, definitely cost him
some money, but it may have justdelayed it a little bit.
Jacob (30:14):
right.
Jason Harwood (30:16):
All right.
So let's talk about the moreinteresting player, whether we
take up the fifth year option,JMO taken in the same draft as
Hutch.
As same question, do you think,first of all, do you think
they're going to pick up theirextension?
Do you think they're going topick up his fifth year
extension?
Jacob (30:32):
I'll go back and forth on this one.
Jamo's fifth year extensionwould be 15 million right now.
And I kind of feel like theymight pick that up and let him
play this one out.
I don't, I would rather themwork something out with him and
do a contract.
But really, when you look at theother, that 15 million, when you
look at the comparable players,that's Courtland Sutton, that's
(30:52):
Tyler Lockett, Jerry Judy, thoseare the people making around
that, that's how much you'd besaving off of that.
So you gotta figure, if you'regonna be signing to a contract,
he's probably gonna be asking atleast 20, 25, right?
And I don't know, I mean, it'sjust a tough call whether we pay
him that.
Jason Harwood (31:10):
Yeah, I
Jacob (31:10):
How are you feeling about it,
Jason Harwood (31:12):
yeah, I definitely got to pick up the
fifth year option because yousaid, you just mentioned the
players that he'd be combinedand salary level definitely
worth that 15 million.
Jacob (31:21):
Ray?
Jason Harwood (31:24):
don't know.
I mean.
I want to say bad luck followshim.
It might be a maturity issue.
There's a lot of things thathave happened that, that would
give me pause, whether to commita ton of money.
I want to see him do it foranother year under a new OC,
under a new wide receiverscoach, I want to see him do it
one more year.
I know that's going to flies inthe face of what we just said
(31:47):
about Hutch's sign them early toget ahead of it, save yourself
some money me.
Hutch is more of a for surething, whereas Jamo is not, and
I'd rather just, rather payextra later on to be sure that
he's going to turn out to be theplayer that we think he has a
possibility of turning out tobe.
Jacob (32:06):
That's the problem with Hutch is that regardless, I
think that Hutch is going to betop paid or near the top paid,
so if that number goes up, thenhis salary goes up.
With Jane Law, I think hissalary probably hovers around
the same thing.
This year, next year, I mean, hewas top 20 in touchdowns.
I think he was almost top 20 inreceiving yards last year, but
you're right.
I think we just need to see moreout of him before we, because we
(32:30):
don't know how much he's askingeither.
If he's asking for 25 or 30million, like that's towards the
top.
That's then you're talking top10 money, then you're getting
closer to Amin Ra who's beenmore productive for longer, it's
going to, it's going to be atough decision that they have to
make with him.
Jason Harwood (32:46):
Yeah, I just don't, as of right now, I would
not trust JMO to go on any otherteam And be a number one wide
receiver.
I just don't, I just don't thinkit works like that for him.
He has questionable things aboutgoing up for 50, 50 balls, and
as he gets older and the speed,maybe decrease.
(33:06):
And his worth will go down alittle bit in my opinion.
Whereas Amin Ra.
It doesn't have that issue, heis going to, he'll play any sort
of, he can play all three ofthose positions, slot X, Z, he
can play any of that and do wellat it.
So I don't really, I don't knowif I want to commit all that
(33:26):
money to JMO and we'll see whatthese plans have, what are we
going to do in the next coupleof years?
Because if we.
Do you know, don't, if we dosign up to the fifth year
option, but don't pick up as anextension, at what point do we
get another wide receiver inhere that can do similar things
to JMO, take the top off thedefense.
Cause you're going to need aplayer like that on the offense.
(33:48):
You need someone that could takethe top off the defense,
Jacob (33:53):
Absolutely.
Do we look at drafting hispotential replacement or just
extra help?
Do we do that this year?
I mean.
Jason Harwood (34:00):
right.
Or is it like, a Brad Holmesspecial where late in the draft,
you just draft someone is goingto be a two year project just to
get him ready.
I don't know, I.
And also it just depends on JMO.
And I think this year withScotty Montgomery, we'll tell a
lot like his maturity level.
It's already, Dan Campbellspeaks about it happening, but
he needs to also maintain thatand keep growing for me to have
(34:24):
confidence in him.
He's a great player.
I want him on his team.
He had, his best year last yearmade some really tough catches.
The hands thing kind of goneaway with me.
What I want to see him developis.
The contestant catches.
That's where I want to see somedevelopment next year.
Even if he's not going to catchit, there are times where he's
(34:46):
just giving up on routes, itseems like, and not and the
other teams are getting easypicks.
You think about the commander'sgame, we're fine.
Kind of gave up on the route.
And then that Vikings game wheregolf Kendra's threw up that
ball, whether Jamo gave up onthe route or anything, but if he
keeps running and least gets inthe defender's face, makes it a
tougher interception.
Jacob (35:08):
Rather than just stop or kind of give up, I mean.
Yeah, you're right.
That wasn't a play where it waslike there was another receiver
behind him.
He knew what that was.
He just knew he was overshot andjust kind of gave up.
Jason Harwood (35:18):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I don't, that's the kind ofstuff that I think I want to see
some more growth for him nextyear.
And I'm sure the coaches are onthere talking about that.
Uh, This deals with J Mo, butthe NFL announced this week that
he won't face the discipline forthe gun incident, so we won't
have that hanging over where hemight miss a few games at the
beginning of the year.
(35:38):
I didn't think that they, he wasgonna, I didn't even, I hadn't
even really thought about thisin a long time, that
Jacob (35:44):
Yeah, I forgot that it happened until I saw the story
that they, he wasn't going toface discipline.
It's oh yeah, that's right.
Jason Harwood (35:50):
Yeah, so that's nice.
So hopefully there's no othersurprises that come up along the
Jacob (35:55):
Exactly.
He just really, we really needhim to have a clean offseason
and clean training camp andInjury free, knock on wood, no
legal trouble, no suspensions,no,
Jason Harwood (36:07):
none of that.
Yeah Let's just have let's getto work and just eat your
McFlurries or whatever the heckhe eats
Jacob (36:16):
why don't you spend more time on the jugs machine with
Amun Ra and just
Jason Harwood (36:19):
Oh
Jacob (36:19):
lay low.
Jason Harwood (36:20):
yeah, our work with Calvin about going up and,
high pointing the ball and,just, that's just what I want to
see him work and, what's betterthan having the best player ever
to do it, high point a ball likethat, obviously Calvin's a freak
of nature, but I'm sure he couldteach a JMO a thing or two.
Jacob (36:39):
Yeah, I just don't think Jamo has enough weight on him to
really like box out or do thatkind of,
Jason Harwood (36:43):
no, but he just needs to just get in there and
do the contested catches.
He can't come.
Yeah.
He won't be able to box out or,push people around.
That's just not gonna, that'snot his
Jacob (36:53):
That comes with the contestant catches too though,
as being, big body and beingable to create separation right
there at the end and, hisseparation is by how fast he is.
Jason Harwood (37:01):
Yeah, no, that's his best weapon.
And that's not going away.
He just needs to, further hisgame.
All right.
NFL combine starts next Monday.
First of all, do you watch it?
Jacob, are you watching all the
Jacob (37:16):
do I definitely don't Die Hard Watch from beginning to
end, but I'm following updatesas it's happening.
I look out for the Michiganplayers absolutely, but then,
just try to look at the topstories, try to see some of the
lower level players that I havemy eye on trying to see.
Trying to see what they'reabout.
I like hearing about theinterviews and stuff like that.
It's funny because, they alwayshave rumors about how poorly
(37:37):
people interview or this orthat.
There's just, there's so muchsmokescreen.
There's so much going on therein Combine that you can't even
tell how much is true.
But, I do the I like it becauseit doesn't usually affect the
Lions, but I like how there'salways one or two players that
do really well at the 40 yarddash, the bench, like one of
those drills, there's somebodythat does really good, and then
(37:59):
all of a sudden they go fromlike late first, second round
pick, to like top ten, and thenpeople are so shocked when these
guys are bust, like what do youeven,
Jason Harwood (38:08):
I know spent, three years, three or four years
watching a player, what theycould do on the field and then
all of a sudden, they bust yourexpectations on the bench press
and suddenly that's going to bethe best player.
Yeah, I mean, that's what Walkerfrom Jacksonville just kept
moving up the board and movepast Hutch, just ignoring what
(38:29):
you just saw from Hutch and, therelentless effort as Calvin
Shepard had said, and you justforget all that and said, Oh,
this guy, demon or whatever.
I'd rather trust a tape.
So you wrote a question, I thinkin here, does the 40 yard dash
or bench press matter to you?
And I think that's what you kindof meant by that.
I mean, that's what you'rewondering whether, you, I
(38:51):
really,
Jacob (38:53):
First, do you see, do you look at those numbers?
Are you intrigued by thosenumbers?
And then do they matter to you?
Jason Harwood (38:59):
Yeah.
So of all, yeah, I mean, it's acompetition.
So yeah, I like to see who'ssuper fast and watching some,
especially when I wish JMo couldhave ran that 40.
The year, because
Jacob (39:10):
Yeah.
Jason Harwood (39:10):
was going to break it, broke the record.
like seeing that.
I love seeing extreme speed, butalso I am not the Oakland
Raiders and be like, Oh, fastestreceiver.
That's who we got to draftbecause there's so many other
things on there.
And think Brad Holmes has talkedabout it.
They use, the GPS data.
The in game speed as more of abarometer than 40 yard dash.
(39:33):
I think that is the 40 yard dashbasically is just a confirmation
for them of a player's speed.
Jacob (39:39):
But you know, it is straight away speed.
So
Jason Harwood (39:44):
It's straight line speed with no pads or
anything on, and yeah, no, noone in your face.
So not as relevant to me, benchpress.
I mean, yes, it's going to showoverall strength, but that
doesn't necessarily mean thatyou have good football instincts
or know how to use your strengthproperly to get proper leverage,
(40:04):
proper technique.
more important than overallbench press, but say you had two
players graded similarly theyhad, you know, more impressive
bench press.
You might be able to, break atie that way.
Jacob (40:18):
You think to do that though?
I mean, I know that like it's apossibility, but do you think
there are teams that really sitdown?
You know what?
We're toss up between player Aand player B, but player A did
30 reps on the bench pressplayer B did 18 reps Do you
think that those conversationsactually happen like that?
Jason Harwood (40:37):
I think conversations like that actually
happened, but I don't thinkthat's a reliable way you should
be drafting, but.
I think everything that they seeat the combine is a confirmation
of what they saw on the tape.
And also it just matters, isthis player prepared?
Did they take this seriously?
I'm sure all that goes into it,but I think for the Lions, the
biggest thing that happens inthis combine is the interviews.
(40:59):
I really
Jacob (41:00):
Yes,
Jason Harwood (41:00):
that's, the interviews, which we don't have.
Access to, until, and we didn'teven see any from last year, but
the previous year when theywould do the inside the den
series, we could see some ofthose interviews.
And those were very interesting.
And I think that's where thelions find out what a player is
made of and whether they'regoing to gel, really.
(41:22):
I think that's the mostimportant thing.
And again, that's not on thefield.
We don't see that.
Jacob (41:27):
and I really like seeing those as well I don't think you
didn't end up watching the hardknocks the the offseason all the
Giants Did you
Jason Harwood (41:33):
No, I did not
Jacob (41:34):
so it showed them when their interview process and it
showed some of the questionsthey ask and show them interview
the different quarterbacks andeverything You would like that,
so you should watch that.
But yeah, I like that insighttoo.
Jason Harwood (41:46):
I have max this year and I did not have that
last year, so I will, I don'tknow who's going to be the off
season one this year, but Iwill.
Jacob (41:53):
After how bad the Giants looked, I would be surprised if
anybody's jumping at the chanceto do that.
Jason Harwood (41:59):
Yeah.
I mean, that's the giant.
So,
Jacob (42:01):
Yeah, we're clear.
Jason Harwood (42:02):
themselves.
Any position groups that you'relooking at checking out.
Jacob (42:08):
Obviously, we'd like to see the edge defenders, just to
see what they have, because Ithink that's the top position of
need for us.
Offensive linemen are in thecombine, but that's one of those
things we just talked aboutyeah, I mean, somebody's gonna
bench 35, 40 reps or somethinglike that, but that doesn't, it
holds no weight for mewhatsoever.
So it's not really interestingto see the offensive linemen,
(42:29):
it's more about seeing theskilled players, and I like
seeing the edge rushers.
Wide receiver is an interestingone for me this year, but I
think most of the ones that aregoing to be high profile wide
receiver names are people goingin the first, round or two, and
that's not, if we're going to bedrafting receiver, it would be
later in the draft.
Jason Harwood (42:45):
Yeah, I don't expect us to be drafting any,
anyone towards the top half ofthe draft for a wide receiver,
although lions do crazy things,
Jacob (42:53):
The right guys there, they fall in love with, maybe,
but,
Jason Harwood (42:56):
they will, but yeah, I don't see that
happening.
Want to say it's going to beoffensive line and, defensive
who knows we could ask, we doneed some secondary help corner,
depending on who we bring backand free agency.
we have a lot while to thinkabout that.
Cause free agency might dictatewho we're going to target in the
draft, but
Jacob (43:16):
right?
Jason Harwood (43:18):
Yeah, I, it'd be interesting to get what the beat
writers have to say.
And I'm more interested ingetting some of the coaching
interview.
And I know Brad Holmes and DanCampbell do some interviews.
we haven't heard from them in awhile, so I do like that.
and Rod would always saysomething about the state of the
lions.
(43:38):
Maybe we'll get some interestingthings that'll happen at Ford
field this year.
We might find out someinformation, so we'll see, that.
Football is football.
Talk is good talk.
So that'll, At
Jacob (43:49):
At the very least, yeah, it's that means the season's
getting closer.
Jason Harwood (43:53):
Yeah.
All right.
Anything else you want to talkabout?
Scott and combine or anythingcoming up.
Jacob (43:58):
Nah.
Jason Harwood (43:59):
All right.
You saw something on tic tacs.
You want to introduce that andwe'll play this little game.
Jacob (44:05):
Yeah, so I saw a TikTok video, gave me an idea to do
this for you, but, The TikTokvideo, I Whatever TikTok profile
was, I guess they do this forNFL teams, They will just show
15 random players from a team,It's, just a picture, there's no
description, It's just a picturefor maybe 3 4 seconds, And you
have to try to guess thatplayer.
And, They were 15 Detroit lions.
(44:27):
They went through, I got 13 outof 15 and I was mad that I
missed the two because theywere, people I should have known
her names.
I should have got I clicked thecomment section and then I saw
people were mad at the original,at the post for the guy, they
said he was listing obscurelions or people he's no one's
heard of before or old playersthat like nobody to follow the
(44:49):
lines now would know.
And I was shocked by thatbecause I knew almost all of
them.
We're not going to be showingpictures here, but I do have,
I'm it's those exact sameplayers that I have on here.
I just have something about thedraft, what number they wore.
And then an interesting factabout them.
And I want you to guess whatplayer it is.
Jason Harwood (45:08):
All
Jacob (45:09):
And I've only got I've only got five or six on here
just to something fun to do.
And I'll tell you the otherplayers that were on the list.
I'll tell you which one I gotwrong.
But
Jason Harwood (45:17):
Okay.
Jacob (45:18):
so this first one is just an example.
He wasn't on the list, but.
You only get one guess.
I'll tell you the three things,you get one guess.
All right.
Holds the Lions record for mostpassing yards by a rookie.
Ruling number three.
Traded from the team in 2006.
Jason Harwood (45:35):
Okay.
Drew Stanton.
I don't know.
Jacob (45:39):
Mmm.
Joey Harrington.
Jason Harwood (45:41):
Oh, Joey Haran.
He holds the record for Oh
Jacob (45:44):
think Stafford came within a hundred yards or two
hundred yards or something likethat, but Stafford played in six
less games.
Jason Harwood (45:50):
Yeah.
Jacob (45:52):
So that's how it's gonna go.
Now you see, that was just myexample one.
Jason Harwood (45:56):
Okay.
Jacob (45:56):
So these next ones are players that were actually on
that list.
Alright, first one, first roundpick in 2009, won numbers 84 and
87, scored the game winningtouchdown against the Browns in
a Stafford shoulder injury game.
Jason Harwood (46:13):
Okay.
Brandon Predick
Jacob (46:15):
Yep, yep.
Next one, third round pick in2008, ran number 92, and set the
Super Bowl record for fastestscorer, I believe the year that
he left.
Jason Harwood (46:33):
Hold on.
Repeat that?
You said,
Jacob (46:36):
So he won number 92, So I'll tell you that, defense,
third round pick in 2008, and heset the Super Bowl record.
The fastest scoring play in theSuper Bowl history.
Jason Harwood (46:46):
Oh, okay.
Oh, man.
Former Lions set the record?
I'm not used to hearing Lions atthe Super Bowl in the
Jacob (46:56):
Yeah, I know.
I was surprised that this was onthere, too.
Jason Harwood (46:59):
Yeah, I don't know.
Who is it?
Jacob (47:01):
So this was Cliff Averill.
Jason Harwood (47:03):
Oh.
Jacob (47:04):
So Cliff Averill went to the Seahawks, and on the first
play of the game, it was likethat bad snap, and they had to
chase it down, and Cliff Averillgot the the, tackled him in the
end zone for a safety.
Yes.
Jason Harwood (47:14):
Manning?
Was that?
Yep, that bad sap right at thebeginning.
Okay, that
Jacob (47:18):
Yeah, it was like the first play of the game.
I think I said it was like 12seconds a clock.
Jason Harwood (47:23):
that Cliff Averill Got that
Jacob (47:24):
Was the one, yeah.
It wasn't a touchdown, it was asafety, so
Jason Harwood (47:28):
safety.
Oh,
Jacob (47:29):
were thinking touchdown, and that's what confused you.
That's okay.
Jason Harwood (47:32):
that.
Jacob (47:33):
This would be much easier for you if you saw the pictures.
I know that, but this is justthe only way we have to do this,
Jason Harwood (47:38):
no, we're good.
Jacob (47:39):
Next one.
Sign So, wasn't drafted with us,but signed with the Lions in
2013.
Row number 27, and he led theleague in interceptions in 2014,
with the Lions.
Jason Harwood (47:53):
What the lines Glover Quinn,
Jacob (47:57):
You got it.
Jason Harwood (47:58):
all Yeah.
Jacob (48:07):
longest rushing touchdown in Lions history.
Of 88 yards.
Jason Harwood (48:13):
Java is Java best.
Jacob (48:16):
Yep, that's it.
Jason Harwood (48:17):
Yep.
couldn't
Jacob (48:18):
I can see you were right there, it took a minute.
Jason Harwood (48:20):
Could not think of the last, I was almost said
bell and I was like, no, that'snot right.
It's best, yeah.
Java best.
That was what, when he scoredthat touchdown, was that the
bears game?
Was that was, When he got
Jacob (48:32):
I don't have that in front of me, I don't remember
when it was.
Jason Harwood (48:36):
just remember him scoring in that game.
That was that Monday night gamewith the Bears.
We started out like crazy andYeah.
Okay.
Alright.
That was a little tangent.
Go on.
Sorry.
Jacob (48:45):
Yeah, no.
We're bringing up memories.
Jason Harwood (48:48):
Yeah.
Jacob (48:49):
Alright, last one.
Undrafted free agent that signedwith the Lions in 2011.
He primarily wore number 35.
And he worked as a securityguard for the Lions training
camp while he was a student atWayne State.
Jason Harwood (49:02):
Oh.
Shoot.
Drake Bell.
Jacob (49:06):
Yeah.
Jason Harwood (49:07):
Yeah.
Jacob (49:07):
You said Bell the last time.
I was like, oh man, it's freshout of his mind, he's gonna get
it now.
Jason Harwood (49:11):
it is, yeah, that's hilarious.
All right.
Jacob (49:13):
Yeah, so those were just the ones that I did that for,
but the other players on thatlist that the pictures were of,
Kevin Smith, Louis Delmas, NateBronson, Nick Fairley, Sean
Hill, Sean Rogers, StephenTellick, Tahir Whitehead, John
Kitna.
Jason Harwood (49:33):
None of those are obscure lions.
Jacob (49:35):
So I was shocked I was shocked that there were people
commenting on there about likehow obscure and they were like
almost mad.
Someone was like, I'm a Lionsfan, I only got three of these.
Like, how?
A Lions fan this year?
I don't understand.
Jason Harwood (49:48):
Yeah.
Maybe when the new lions fans,since we've been winning the
last couple of years and yeah,maybe that was a,
Jacob (49:54):
The ones I got wrong Sorry, what were you saying?
Jason Harwood (49:57):
No, go ahead.
Jacob (49:58):
Oh, the ones I got wrong, Kevin Smith, when I saw the
picture, I said Kevin Jones.
I was like, okay, that's KevinJones.
And it was Kevin Smith, I gotthe name wrong.
And then the other one, TahirWhitehead, they showed the
picture of him and I didn't, didnot recognize him, nothing came
to me at all.
Jason Harwood (50:12):
Yeah, you probably blocked him out because
of his poor linebacker play.
You
Jacob (50:16):
Right.
Jason Harwood (50:16):
him out.
Yeah So knew you're gonna dothis because we talked about it
when I was looking at the sellercap stuff, I found two seller
cap facts that I wanted to quizyou on.
Jacob (50:27):
Oh, okay.
Jason Harwood (50:28):
will be a little different, but
Jacob (50:31):
Salary cap things.
Jason Harwood (50:33):
just see it.
They're just funny thing.
I don't know if you're going toget these or not, but they're
more interesting than anything.
So we'll see lion.
We'll have a 23.
3 million cap hit for the lionsnext year.
It's actually number two behindJared Goff.
23.
Jacob (50:47):
At 23 million.
Jason Harwood (50:49):
3 million cap hit.
Jacob (50:53):
Oh God.
Was
Jason Harwood (50:56):
It's going to shock you.
I don't
Jacob (50:57):
that Panay?
Jason Harwood (50:58):
No, it is Taylor Decker.
when they redid his deal, theyfront loaded this.
Panay is way down the list.
This cap is only like 9.
8 million because of how
Jacob (51:09):
Yeah.
I like that.
Jason Harwood (51:10):
Yep.
So Taylor Decker, 23.
3 million.
So it's just how they'vestructured these deals.
This
Jacob (51:18):
is 9 million right now, how high is Panay's school is
towards the end of thiscontract?
Jason Harwood (51:22):
yeah, I looked at it.
It's yeah, there is rememberwhat Panay, what they did with
Panay is that they rolled us inwith this fourth year deal and
so like they spread.
His signing bonus over sixyears.
So it's, they've, really did asmart deal.
And I think that's what they'regoing to do with Hutch.
Jacob (51:40):
Yeah, I hope so.
Jason Harwood (51:41):
My next one, this is my last one I have for you.
This former lion will count 6.
5 million against the cap thisyear.
Former lion.
Jacob (51:51):
for us.
You mean, or just
Jason Harwood (51:52):
lion.
he is.
will count 6.
5 million.
So he's basically dead cap moneyfor the lions this year.
Jacob (52:04):
I don't remember anybody that we traded.
Was it Sutton?
Jason Harwood (52:07):
It is Sutton.
Yeah.
Jacob (52:09):
Oh, okay.
Jason Harwood (52:10):
right now is Carleton Davis.
He is cause they were, theyrestructured his deal last year.
He's got a 9.
5 million cap hit dead money.
Yeah.
Yeah, Cameron Sutton stillcosting six and a half million.
Now there's,
Jacob (52:23):
avoided?
Are we still,
Jason Harwood (52:24):
there is, we're still in conflict about getting
some money back.
So that may be lowered and wemay be able to get some
additional cap money.
And we talked about this podcastlast summer when lines are still
filing for that.
It's still taking, takesforever.
And I don't know
Jacob (52:39):
of course,
Jason Harwood (52:39):
takes So yeah.
So we'll get back I think lateron this summer, we'll get back
and do the Honolulu blitz andhave questions like this, but
that
Jacob (52:47):
It was fun doing that again.
Jason Harwood (52:49):
Yeah, definitely put put you on the hot seat, but
I wasn't planning on doinganything with you.
Cause I thought we'd just dothose questions for me.
But when I saw those capnumbers, I thought that was
pretty interesting.
I thought Taylor Decker onereally surprised me.
Jacob (53:06):
Yeah.
I did not see that
Jason Harwood (53:08):
Yeah.
Right, man, anything right now,I think it's two, two, going to
the third period for this Canadaline or Canada, USA.
Jacob (53:19):
a couple more minutes before they start.
Jason Harwood (53:21):
yeah,
Jacob (53:21):
I didn't see who scored for Canada.
Jason Harwood (53:23):
I didn't, I saw them celebrating and yeah, I
wanted to throw something, butwe're in this podcast I I want
to encourage everybody that'slistening next, on Tuesday when
we release the Fantasy PlayDrop.
It'll be a great way of uslooking back at the season.
I think it's going to be a lotof fun.
I'm curious how it's all goingto work out.
And hopefully it just, hopefullyI didn't jinx it by talking
(53:44):
about it too much today.
Jacob (53:45):
Yeah.
Jason Harwood (53:46):
get everybody healthy and we can do this.
All right, Jacob, I think we gotanother podcast in the books
here.
We always think, how are wegoing to talk?
And then we end up talking foran hour, which is, it's always
fun talking lines, talking
Jacob (53:58):
Dammit, it's not hard to talk football.
Jason Harwood (54:00):
No, it is not sound even like that hard to
even come up with these topics.
So yeah, hopefully we We have alot to talk about, before we
know it, free agency is going tobe here.
That's three weeks away, whichis crazy because then there'll
be a lot to talk about for awhile.
Just not only with lions, butthe NFL who we lost who we've
gained hopefully.
(54:20):
And yeah, there'll be plenty totalk about then.
And then right behind that wouldbe draft talk.
Jacob (54:26):
Can't wait.
Thank you.
Jason Harwood (54:28):
All right.
For Jacob, I'm Jason, let's golions.
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