December 18, 2024 • 30 mins
We hope everyone had a Happy Thanksgiving! As we recover, we're continuing our discussion on podcasting. Our podcast platform AI suggested the topic for this episode be "Overcoming Perfectionism in Podcasting." That's not an inaccurate description! Join us as we share our own podcasting mishaps and triumphs and the lessons we learned that underscore the importance of progress over perfection.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
This podcast is not sponsored by and does not
(00:02):
reflect the views of theinstitutions that employ us.
It is solely our thoughts andideas, based upon our
professional training and studyof the past.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Welcome to Talking Texas History, the podcast that
explores Texas history beforeand beyond the Alamo.
Not only will we talk Texashistory, we'll visit with folks
who teach it, write it, supportit, and with some who've made it
and, of course, all of us wholive it and love it.
I'm Scott Sosbe and I'm GenePreuss, and this is Talking
(00:36):
Texas History.
Well, welcome to anotheredition of Talking Texas History
.
I'm Gene Preuss.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
I am Scott Sospe.
Gene, are we going to continue?
This is going to be our second.
We actually have enough to sayto make two episodes out of.
So you Want to Start a Podcastdiscussion?
We even have, so I guess we doknow a little bit more.
Or we're just making stuff upas we go which may be a secret
to a podcast.
Just make stuff up as you go.
We make're just making stuff upas we go.
Which may be a secret to apodcast.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Just make stuff up as you go we make a lot of stuff
up as we go, so I'll do that inclass.
So yeah, it's uh.
We talked last time kind ofabout you know the getting an
idea and you're pitching it.
An audience, uh getting thatidea, kind of letting it.
(01:26):
You know, come together and doyou want to have guests, how do
you deal with that?
Let's talk this time, uh, aboutkind of the nuts and bolts of
once you kind of have all thatpreliminary information done,
how do you actually get it onthe internet?
(01:47):
How do you get a podcast up andgoing?
Speaker 1 (01:50):
It's a good topic.
You probably know more about itthan I do.
I'll offer what I can.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Well, you know, one of the things, and I'm kind of
one of these people that I startlooking into things and then I
get obsessed with the researchand trying to figure out what is
the best way.
And I spent, you know, a longtime, scott, doing oral history
and working with oral history,and I was editor of a couple of
(02:19):
online oral history discussionboards HNET Oral History for
about 15 years and I saw a lotof the discussion, a lot of
people talking about the idea oforal history, and it's not much
different from podcasting andwhat happens is people
oftentimes we let the perfect bethe enemy of the good, and by
(02:42):
that I mean, you know peopletalk about well, what is the
best microphone, what is thebest technology?
Now, not all podcasts are justdone like we do ours right, we
do ours strictly for thelistening connoisseur, right,
the listening audience, but somepodcasts are visual.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
The listening audience.
Some podcasts are visual.
Yeah, some of them are made for, I guess, to make money too as
far as that goes.
We're not experiencing any ofthat either.
You know, you say that aboutthe microphones and stuff, which
I think is interesting.
When we first started doingthat and when I first started
actually looking okay, what isthis actually looking.
Okay, what is this.
(03:24):
So I went on and I looked onwhat's the best, just like you
said, what's the best microphoneto use for a podcast that you
use a laptop to do, and allthose things.
And boy, I read all thesereviews and they pointed me
towards all this fancy stuffthat was supposed to have.
So I went out and bought aquite elaborate set with filters
(03:45):
and all these things to plug inand various different kinds of
aspects, and the first couple wedid, if you'll remember, my
microphone was having trouble,it wasn't working very well, it
was echoing and it wasn't verywell and everything.
And so I said, well, I'm notgoing to use that anymore and I
used just plain headphones for awhile.
But then I went out and boughtjust a simple Bluetooth you know
(04:08):
pretty cheap microphone andit's worked great ever since
then.
So yeah, you may have to pickand choose and decide what works
best, but my, I guess,experience says, you know, most
expensive doesn't always meanthe best.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
I suppose Right, Most expensive doesn't always mean
the best, I suppose.
Right, I mean, and you know anykind of technology, whether
you're talking about amicrophone or you're talking
about a computer or a car, right, Even the best, you can get a
lemon, you can get somethingthat's not put together right or
something that you know youhave problems with, and so
(04:42):
people you know fret over thesethings and there's debate rages
over oh, this is the best, thisis the best, Just get it done,
Just put it out there and plugin your mic.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
If you're running a Bluetooth microphone, that you
have to, you know.
Charge up the battery.
Make sure it's charged up foryou, Go on.
Today I'm back using headphonesbecause I didn't charge my
battery up and it's dead on mymicrophone.
That's very good advice.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
I mean working with oral history.
This is the thing you got tomake sure your equipment is
ready to go.
There's nothing worse thangoing out and having your
equipment die on you because thebattery went out.
Back in the old days we used tohave cassette players.
We would go out and do oralhistory and you didn't bring a
(05:37):
cassette or you didn't dosomething right.
They had those little tabs.
You had to preserve therecording.
Do something right.
They had those little tabs youhad to to preserve the recording
.
And if you forgot, to punchyour tab out, I'd seen people
who'd recorded an interview andthen they go out, talk to
somebody else and record overover it.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Yeah, that's amazing.
I mean I use, I have thislittle that I use for all things
, this little sony voiceactivated unobtrusive microphone
but I recorder.
But of course you can still doif you don't check technology.
You're talking about oralhistories.
I did one where I wasinterviewing a very key person
to the Bright Coop researchstuff I was doing here.
(06:17):
She was Charles Bright's sisterand boy.
It was a long interview, twohours.
It was great.
But you know what, I forgot tocheck the total quality of it
and I got back and I couldn'thear three fourths of it.
She was a very light talker andeverything else, and I thought,
well, I'm going to have to goback and do that again.
Well, she died two weeks laterand I couldn't go back and do it
(06:39):
and it was a big blow to that.
So, yeah, technology, I guess,can be important.
You know.
You say oral history too.
I know we said this before, butI think it's worth
reemphasizing.
Knowing the mechanics of oralhistory and knowing how to
conduct oral history is avaluable skill and it comes in
very handy in a podcastsituation because essentially
(07:00):
that's what you're doing to alarge extent.
We are conducting some sort oforal history, particularly when
you have guests on and you'vegot to.
You know there's a, there's a,there's a skill, there's a craft
to interviewing somebody andyou get better at it.
But you need to understandfirst off, and number one I may
have said this last time, I'mgoing to reiterate it the number
(07:21):
one thing to learn is you'renot that nobody's tuning in to
hear you talk.
If you've got a guest, they'retuning in, probably to hear your
guests talk.
So let them do what they dobest, and what you brought them
on to do is taught, but you'vegot to know how to draw that out
of them.
So it's important, I think, tohave a set of questions
beforehand, uh, and also to askquestions that elicit someone to
(07:45):
give you the response that youwant.
So, no, these can't be justokay.
I'll think these questions up10 minutes before the podcast,
not saying we haven't done thatbefore, but there should be some
thought put into it before youdo that.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Yeah, I mean, that's a really good advice and keep in
mind that you you know wetalked last time time that one
of the most important thingsabout any interview is shutting
up right, ask your question andlet the person you're talking to
fill in the gap, fill in thetalking, and not cutting them.
(08:19):
You know, not cutting them offis a big.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
A lot of interviewers have that problem, don't they?
Speaker 2 (08:25):
Well, I mean, even you and I do quite a bit, and
especially we're using Zoom, andso sometimes what you say I
don't hear, and vice versa,right, we don't always get
immediate interaction, and so Idon't know if you're talking, if
(08:48):
I'm talking Technology, goingback to the thing about
microphones even the besttechnology has its problems.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
All you have to do is attend a couple academic
conferences to realize that thatdon't you.
It never fails.
If you're depending ontechnology as a big part of your
presentation, that technologyis going to fail exactly lost
without it, and the same thingyou don't get the worst thing.
We had that happen to one ofour podcasts.
We won't say the name.
(09:22):
We did what I thought was afantastic episode and the
technology failed and we didn'tget any of it.
Now we're going to have to goback and do it again.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
Yeah, yeah, I feel bad about that too.
But you learn right.
And going back to the oldcassette tapes is you learned
from mistakes, from mistakes andyou know, unfortunately, like
you were saying, with thatperson you interviewed who
passed away before you couldreschedule, that happens too,
(09:52):
you know it may not be to thatextent but in oral histories
that was always certainly aproblem.
But let's talk about how.
So let's talk a little bitabout technology so you can do
podcasts with a variety ofdifferent types of technology.
You know, you and I do this viaZoom, I edit it, I use a little
(10:15):
editing program and then I getit uploaded.
But a couple of.
Well, last year, maybe a yearbefore last, I forget, we were
in San Angelo and our goodfriend John Caraway was doing a
little bit of podcasting and heinvited us to his studio and we
(10:37):
did an interview with him.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
In Abilene.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
In Abilene, sorry, Abilene San Angelo.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
You know it's all West Texas In Abilene.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
Sorry, abilene San Angelo you know it's all West
Texas People in San Angelo willnot be happy about us saying
that Well that's right, they'llforgive me because I'm living in
Houston, but he had this greatstudio setup.
I mean it was just awesome andthe quality and everything was
just so nice.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
It's nice.
Yeah, we have one here.
I've never looked into using it.
We have a studio that you usefor podcasts.
Our college was doing a podcastfor a while.
I don't know that they're stilldoing.
I know that I went down and satin a podcast with them Gosh
years ago now when we talkedabout the 1619 project, uh, and
(11:24):
things like that, and it was anelaborate setting up.
Uh, just like uh, john carrawayhad at cisco college, uh, there
in abilene.
It was very, you know, they hadall the latest technology.
But you know, I'm gonna sayI've listened to that podcast,
I've listened to some and I, youknow I knew the studio set up
(11:45):
it doesn't sound much differentthan what we do, I mean.
So you know you don't have tohave that elaborate setup.
It does work.
I know a guy I've talked tothat does a podcast and he does
it every time on nothing but hisiPhone.
It's just he does the wholething on his iPhone.
Yeah, you know, sets itcompletely up all the recording
thing and the microphone and hehas a software program that he
(12:06):
has and he just it's all.
He has a software program thathe has and he just it's all he
ever records.
Only said I just do it on theiphone and then just upload it,
uh, straight from my iphone well, you know that's, that's,
that's true.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
right, there's a democratization of uh,
communication, uh, with socialmedia today, and that's so much
more available than it used tobe.
I I mean, when I was in highschool in the 80s, I worked in
radio, so I did that for 10years.
It got me through collegeworking in radio stations and
(12:40):
back then it was, you know, weused that magnetic tape and you
had to splice it with a razorblade and cut it and use the
tape to put it back togetheragain, and you could do all that
.
It was very expensive.
Today, you know somebody withtheir, with your iPhone, your
cell phone, you can do it.
(13:02):
So this is another thing thatwe want to tell people is that
it really doesn't have to beexpensive.
You can do it on a limitedbudget or no budget, it depends.
It's just on how you set thingsup.
And so, moving from thetechnology, so microphones the
only advice I would say onmicrophones is you're going to
(13:26):
be better off with what's calleda dynamic microphone.
There's two kinds there'sdynamic and condensers.
Most of the microphones you seein the wide world are condenser
microphones.
The problem with those is theycondense all the sound that they
come in so they get all sortsof sound.
(13:47):
They bring it in, they bring itup to a level.
Dynamic microphones the closeryou are to the microphone, the
better the quality, the betterthe voice, and it may not even
pick up stuff from far away.
So right now I'm in my officesitting to you, talking to you,
(14:09):
and outside I can hear thehighway traffic.
If I had a condenser microphone, it would elevate and you could
probably hear the traffic.
In fact you may hear it.
Now, if I was using a dynamicmicrophone, that would probably
not even register to you.
So that's one thing, one pieceof advice I would give you.
That's one thing, one piece ofadvice I would give you.
(14:30):
So after you get it, after youget it recorded, after you get
it recorded, you might want toedit out things like recorded it
right.
You might want to edit out someof these things.
And here is another area wheredon't let budget get in your way
, because there are a lot offree, online or downloadable
(14:57):
editing softwares that you canuse.
I mean, you're going to have tomake this digital right.
You can't.
The old days of analog tapearen't around anymore for social
media, or if they are, you'dhave to convert it into digital.
But once you have a digital andwith the editing I said I used
to use a knife and tape to doediting.
Today it's all on computer andI can do that, and the beauty of
(15:22):
that is nothing really getsthrown away, nothing.
The computer is just told starthere, stop here, start here,
stop here, start here, stop here.
And so it doesn't really affectin the great scheme of things.
You can always go back, you canalways correct mistakes, and
(15:44):
that's that is a nice thing thatwe used to not have.
Also, you can increase thesound.
Back in the old days ofmagnetic tape, whenever you
turned up the volume.
We're talking about how theperson you interviewed talked
very lightly.
With analog tape you could onlygo up so high and then you get
(16:07):
hiss and hum and all this otherextraneous noise thrown in there
.
Digital not so it just picks upwhat it hears and so there is
no hum, there is no and, and youcan filter a lot of that stuff
out.
So that's another area.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
some people don't even edit right, like there's
some people do podcasts oh, andyou can listen to some podcasts
and you can tell hey, theydidn't edit this, yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
It's just like editing a book, right, or an
article.
You put in things and you gomaybe I really didn't need to
say that, maybe that doesn't addto the story, and so maybe you
want to edit.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
I don't know what to do.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
Was I drunk when I wrote?
Speaker 1 (16:52):
this?
I don't know.
I've never done a podcast drunk.
I've written drunk, but I'venever done a podcast drunk.
Maybe we should try thatsometime, just see how a podcast
will turn out if us and a guestjust come on loaded.
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
Well, we don't know that.
Not all of our guests have beensober.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
It might be better if you do come on here loaded.
If you're one of our guests, wecould get one.
That's what we could do.
We'd get our good friend LelandTurner.
We could almost guarantee hewould come on drunk.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
So that would be the time to do that.
Yeah, I mean and this is theother thing right, make the
podcast what you want, what yourlisteners want to hear, what
they will well, in our case,what they'll put up with
listening to.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
Oh when they're real bored and stuff.
Well, gene, I think also partof that is you talk about, and a
good thing for us to starttalking about is how you're
going to platform this thing,because, listen, you can do a.
It's like a book that you wrote, it's like anything you've done
creatively.
You can do something that'sfantastic, but if nobody hears
it, if nobody can access it, ifit's too hard, then it doesn't
(18:00):
matter, because nobody's gonnanobody's gonna know what you've
done.
So you gotta have a goodplatform.
So maybe we can tell about theplatforms we use and how we you
know why we decided on what wedecided.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
Well, that's right.
So first you got the of gettingthe recording made, then you've
got to think about how are yougoing to, if you're going to
edit it, and this is important.
You cannot not edit itnecessarily because, um, you
have to have a platform.
And I don't want to talk aboutplatforms and give you specifics
(18:37):
.
I'll tell you what we use.
We use a platform calledBuzzsprouts and what we do is we
put together the program, weget it edited as much or as
little as we want, and then Ihave to feed that into
Buzzsprouts and Buzzsprouts.
In any of these platforms, theyhave specific requirements that
(18:59):
you have to follow, and what Imean by that is what format it's
like.
Well, I'm going to put it in,you know voice.
Well, I mean, there's certainformats.
It's just like on documents,right.
Whenever we're saving adocument, there's DOC, there's
DOCX Back in the old days therewas WordPerfect, wp and then
(19:20):
there's text, right.
So you get all these formats.
You need to figure out whatformat your hosting platform
wants, and that's what we'retalking about hosting platforms
and so Buzzsprout tells me itneeds to be in this format, it
needs to be this many bits persecond, and all this other
(19:42):
technical mumbo jumbo thatdoesn't make any sense.
But the thing is you don't needto know what it means.
You just make sure that thenumbers, that it's in their
format, that they want, andthere are some standards, so
it's not like you have to huntaround, it's pretty easy.
Okay, it has to be in this, ithas to be in this, it has to be
in this, okay, good.
So then you upload it.
(20:10):
And what Buzzsprouts does for us, it does two very important
things.
Now again, I edit, and when Iedit because we're on Zoom and
so sometimes there's some phoneit sounds like you're on a phone
.
So the editing software, I tryto run it through an equalizer
so we balance out to a morenatural-sounding voice and that
(20:35):
doesn't take but a couple ofseconds.
So that doesn't.
It's not hard work on my part.
I cut out extraneous stuff orinterruptions, I cut that out.
But what Buzzsprouts does forme and there's a number of
hosting platforms what it doesis it takes that and it balances
(21:00):
everything out, it equalizes iton top of what I've already
done.
So it makes it sound muchbetter.
I'm always impressed because Ithought, I think, I like to
think, I do kind of a good job,or at least a passable job.
It does a better job of that.
The other thing that it does andboth of these are added
(21:20):
features is it and Scott, thisis witchcraft, this is magic.
It takes our discussion, ourpodcast.
It transcribes it, all right.
So there's a transcription madeand then it uses the wizardry
(21:42):
of AI to interpret that.
Now you know, we sit around asacademics.
I don't know.
We've had several meetingsamong faculty on how to use AI,
what AI is going to mean, howit's going to change the future
and who uses it, the differentthings you can do with it.
But AI takes our transcript andit summarizes what we talked
(22:10):
about, and so it writes shownotes for me.
So if you go to the click onthe podcast, you go to the show
notes, it'll give you a summaryof what's in there, and then it
helps me so when I tag it soother people can find it if
they're looking for it.
It provides all thatinformation and that saves me so
(22:36):
much time.
It gives me suggestions ontitles.
It is fantastic.
It's a time saver, it's an ideagenerator, and so I've got to
take my hat off to it.
That is the benefit of thehosting platform.
So Scott do you guys use AI any.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
I have begun to use it a little bit.
You know, as a, as a tool I'vecan.
First off, it makes, if you,I've got a, I've got an app that
, if you record your lectures asyou give them, gives you an
outstanding summary.
The AI gives you your notes,what you said, and it's great to
go back and look and say, yeah,I did that.
Well, you know you don't havefeedback from your lecture quite
(23:21):
often or you go man, thatdidn't turn out like I thought
it should have.
For, you know, next time, AI issomething that's a whole other
show we ought to do.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
That is something we ought to talk about.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
We ought to talk about, because I think, as
historians, we get a little bitdefensive of something like this
and don't realize how good of atool something like AI could we
think it's going to go intoplagiarism and all these types
of things, I think, and itdoesn't.
It's a tool just like anythingelse.
What we need to learn to do isteach.
(23:50):
We need to learn how to use itand we need to learn how to
teach students how to do it.
And also it gives me an idea.
I think about it now.
I said you know what I need todo in class and what I need to
impart to my students is toteach them how to do more than
what ai can do.
We know what ai can do.
Ask them a subject.
So what I want my students andwhat my lessons should be, y'all
do go beyond what ai can do andthat's what you know, and there
(24:12):
you go.
That's the you know and thereyou go.
That's the whole thing.
But yeah, and I'll have to giveBuzzsprout a lot of a lot of
kudos because it is I mean, Idon't know about any others, but
it's turned out to be a verygreat platform.
I would recommend it foreverybody.
And they also distribute ourpodcast to Spotify and and Apple
podcasts and things like that,which is also another fantastic
(24:34):
tool for people to get it outthere.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
Well, that's another thing.
So you get this platform, likewe're using Buzzsprouts, and
look, technology programs changeall the time.
That's why I don't want to say,use this one, but I'm just
going to tell you my experiencewith AI.
You know so, not AI, but withBuzzsprouts.
But it gives you and you checkthis more than I do it gives you
(25:00):
all these statistics on how theshow is doing, where people are
.
I mean, we know, and I tell you, when I first learned this, it
floored me.
There are people in othercountries who have tuned into
our podcast.
Speaker 1 (25:17):
I figured that they made a mistake, thought it was
something else.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
That may be.
I don't know that they comeback.
But, you know I mean but thefact that we can tell and track
and see how many people arelistening to it, where they're
listening to it, which platformthey're using it.
Now I like to say you can findour podcast wherever fine
podcasts are sold, and you knowthat's just an old thing where
(25:43):
people used to say that aboutbooks.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
Where all fine stores , wherever things are, yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
Yeah, the thing about podcasts right is so you have
to find a distributor.
So after you get the, it's kindof in the publishing world,
like with a book you have apublisher and you've got
distributors right.
So the podcast world works verysimilarly.
You've got Buzzsprouts, whichis the platform, the publisher,
(26:10):
and then it sends it out and ithelps you do this.
If you get another platform,you may have to do some of this
work yourself, but Buzzsproutsyeah, and that's why it's a
great platform.
It makes it so easy because itdistributes to Spotify, to Apple
Podcast, to Google Play and awhole bunch of others that I
can't even think of.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
And does it very well you know there's a question
about podcasts.
This is more attuned to peoplein the same profession as us and
it's an academic type world,but it might apply to others.
But I just put to you, and Iguess we can end the programs
we're getting close with kind ofa discussion about podcasts.
This is that.
Is this doing a pod?
I haven't thought about it, butI've been thinking more and
(26:55):
more is this a creativescholarly?
Is this doing a part?
I haven't thought about it, butI've been thinking more and
more.
Is this a creative scholarlyoutput?
Is it a creative scholarlyexercise?
You know, in our world we have,you know, we have faculty
activity reports.
Would you put this on somethinglike that?
Is that what we're doing here?
Speaker 2 (27:14):
Something that's very creative.
I put it in teaching I considerit teaching, yeah, but I mean, I
guess, right, you could,depending, I mean, I think, in
our I see the way we're doing itand again, this goes back to
the you know what is yourconcept.
I see what we're doing asteaching others, right, we're,
uh, we get this is a podcast, Ifor people who are teaching
(27:37):
history, want some new ideas,want to talk about what they're
doing, and this is for students,but also for people who teach
Texas history and practice itand maybe have some interest,
right, so I see this as ateaching endeavor, interest,
(27:58):
right, so I see this as ateaching endeavor.
But I think, depending on whatyour podcast, I mean, some
people do writing and they'rewriting the podcast.
And if I were doing on my ownresearch and I were talking
about new research that I wasdoing, yeah, I would consider
that scholarly.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
I ask that and it comes to me just as a sense of
you know you said a word earlierabout talking about social
media and this type of activitydemocratization of the message,
if you will and it goes back toI always when I've done some
research and stuff and we talkabout when the airlines are
(28:34):
deregulated and you had anairlines like southwest and and
jet blue and some of these othercome along that started as low
cost or whatever one thing thatthe theme of that is that those
outlets, whatever you think ofthem, democratized flying.
It became something thateverybody did instead of just a
few wealthy people did.
To a large extent, and I thinkin a creative sense, podcasting
(29:00):
is democratizing people gettingtheir message out or what
they're interested in out.
You know, both of us arepublished authors and we know
how difficult it is to conceivethe book but even more than that
, convincing a publisher anddoing it to get that out there
so people can buy it and read it.
But a podcast allows you toalmost self-publish on your own
(29:25):
at a very budgetary means andget that word out and get some
of what you say out.
So podcasting in a whole sensemay be the democratization of
messages in the United States.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
You know, scott, I think you're 100% accurate.
I want to agree with you, and Ithink that's a good note to
close the show out.
We've had two episodes on thisand I'm always happy to talk to
people about it more, but Ithink you kind of summed up that
that is what we know aboutpodcasting.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
That's what, yeah, and what which?
Speaker 2 (29:59):
means.
That's it.
I think that I think you'reright, you know.
So, um, I want to say thanks alot for listening, All right.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
We did all right.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
We still need to do one on food.
Speaker 1 (30:08):
Yeah, I know, I'm going to teach a whole class on
food.
This podcast is not sponsored by and does not
(00:02):
reflect the views of theinstitutions that employ us.
It is solely our thoughts andideas, based upon our
professional training and studyof the past.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Welcome to Talking Texas History, the podcast that
explores Texas history beforeand beyond the Alamo.
Not only will we talk Texashistory, we'll visit with folks
who teach it, write it, supportit, and with some who've made it
and, of course, all of us wholive it and love it.
I'm Scott Sosbe and I'm GenePreuss, and this is Talking
(00:36):
Texas History.
Well, welcome to anotheredition of Talking Texas History
.
I'm Gene Preuss.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
I am Scott Sospe.
Gene, are we going to continue?
This is going to be our second.
We actually have enough to sayto make two episodes out of.
So you Want to Start a Podcastdiscussion?
We even have, so I guess we doknow a little bit more.
Or we're just making stuff upas we go which may be a secret
to a podcast.
Just make stuff up as you go.
We make're just making stuff upas we go.
Which may be a secret to apodcast.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Just make stuff up as you go we make a lot of stuff
up as we go, so I'll do that inclass.
So yeah, it's uh.
We talked last time kind ofabout you know the getting an
idea and you're pitching it.
An audience, uh getting thatidea, kind of letting it.
(01:26):
You know, come together and doyou want to have guests, how do
you deal with that?
Let's talk this time, uh, aboutkind of the nuts and bolts of
once you kind of have all thatpreliminary information done,
how do you actually get it onthe internet?
(01:47):
How do you get a podcast up andgoing?
Speaker 1 (01:50):
It's a good topic.
You probably know more about itthan I do.
I'll offer what I can.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Well, you know, one of the things, and I'm kind of
one of these people that I startlooking into things and then I
get obsessed with the researchand trying to figure out what is
the best way.
And I spent, you know, a longtime, scott, doing oral history
and working with oral history,and I was editor of a couple of
(02:19):
online oral history discussionboards HNET Oral History for
about 15 years and I saw a lotof the discussion, a lot of
people talking about the idea oforal history, and it's not much
different from podcasting andwhat happens is people
oftentimes we let the perfect bethe enemy of the good, and by
(02:42):
that I mean, you know peopletalk about well, what is the
best microphone, what is thebest technology?
Now, not all podcasts are justdone like we do ours right, we
do ours strictly for thelistening connoisseur, right,
the listening audience, but somepodcasts are visual.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
The listening audience.
Some podcasts are visual.
Yeah, some of them are made for, I guess, to make money too as
far as that goes.
We're not experiencing any ofthat either.
You know, you say that aboutthe microphones and stuff, which
I think is interesting.
When we first started doingthat and when I first started
actually looking okay, what isthis actually looking.
Okay, what is this.
(03:24):
So I went on and I looked onwhat's the best, just like you
said, what's the best microphoneto use for a podcast that you
use a laptop to do, and allthose things.
And boy, I read all thesereviews and they pointed me
towards all this fancy stuffthat was supposed to have.
So I went out and bought aquite elaborate set with filters
(03:45):
and all these things to plug inand various different kinds of
aspects, and the first couple wedid, if you'll remember, my
microphone was having trouble,it wasn't working very well, it
was echoing and it wasn't verywell and everything.
And so I said, well, I'm notgoing to use that anymore and I
used just plain headphones for awhile.
But then I went out and boughtjust a simple Bluetooth you know
(04:08):
pretty cheap microphone andit's worked great ever since
then.
So yeah, you may have to pickand choose and decide what works
best, but my, I guess,experience says, you know, most
expensive doesn't always meanthe best.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
I suppose Right, Most expensive doesn't always mean
the best, I suppose.
Right, I mean, and you know anykind of technology, whether
you're talking about amicrophone or you're talking
about a computer or a car, right, Even the best, you can get a
lemon, you can get somethingthat's not put together right or
something that you know youhave problems with, and so
(04:42):
people you know fret over thesethings and there's debate rages
over oh, this is the best, thisis the best, Just get it done,
Just put it out there and plugin your mic.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
If you're running a Bluetooth microphone, that you
have to, you know.
Charge up the battery.
Make sure it's charged up foryou, Go on.
Today I'm back using headphonesbecause I didn't charge my
battery up and it's dead on mymicrophone.
That's very good advice.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
I mean working with oral history.
This is the thing you got tomake sure your equipment is
ready to go.
There's nothing worse thangoing out and having your
equipment die on you because thebattery went out.
Back in the old days we used tohave cassette players.
We would go out and do oralhistory and you didn't bring a
(05:37):
cassette or you didn't dosomething right.
They had those little tabs.
You had to preserve therecording.
Do something right.
They had those little tabs youhad to to preserve the recording
.
And if you forgot, to punchyour tab out, I'd seen people
who'd recorded an interview andthen they go out, talk to
somebody else and record overover it.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Yeah, that's amazing.
I mean I use, I have thislittle that I use for all things
, this little sony voiceactivated unobtrusive microphone
but I recorder.
But of course you can still doif you don't check technology.
You're talking about oralhistories.
I did one where I wasinterviewing a very key person
to the Bright Coop researchstuff I was doing here.
(06:17):
She was Charles Bright's sisterand boy.
It was a long interview, twohours.
It was great.
But you know what, I forgot tocheck the total quality of it
and I got back and I couldn'thear three fourths of it.
She was a very light talker andeverything else, and I thought,
well, I'm going to have to goback and do that again.
Well, she died two weeks laterand I couldn't go back and do it
(06:39):
and it was a big blow to that.
So, yeah, technology, I guess,can be important.
You know.
You say oral history too.
I know we said this before, butI think it's worth
reemphasizing.
Knowing the mechanics of oralhistory and knowing how to
conduct oral history is avaluable skill and it comes in
very handy in a podcastsituation because essentially
(07:00):
that's what you're doing to alarge extent.
We are conducting some sort oforal history, particularly when
you have guests on and you'vegot to.
You know there's a, there's a,there's a skill, there's a craft
to interviewing somebody andyou get better at it.
But you need to understandfirst off, and number one I may
have said this last time, I'mgoing to reiterate it the number
(07:21):
one thing to learn is you'renot that nobody's tuning in to
hear you talk.
If you've got a guest, they'retuning in, probably to hear your
guests talk.
So let them do what they dobest, and what you brought them
on to do is taught, but you'vegot to know how to draw that out
of them.
So it's important, I think, tohave a set of questions
beforehand, uh, and also to askquestions that elicit someone to
(07:45):
give you the response that youwant.
So, no, these can't be justokay.
I'll think these questions up10 minutes before the podcast,
not saying we haven't done thatbefore, but there should be some
thought put into it before youdo that.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Yeah, I mean, that's a really good advice and keep in
mind that you you know wetalked last time time that one
of the most important thingsabout any interview is shutting
up right, ask your question andlet the person you're talking to
fill in the gap, fill in thetalking, and not cutting them.
(08:19):
You know, not cutting them offis a big.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
A lot of interviewers have that problem, don't they?
Speaker 2 (08:25):
Well, I mean, even you and I do quite a bit, and
especially we're using Zoom, andso sometimes what you say I
don't hear, and vice versa,right, we don't always get
immediate interaction, and so Idon't know if you're talking, if
(08:48):
I'm talking Technology, goingback to the thing about
microphones even the besttechnology has its problems.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
All you have to do is attend a couple academic
conferences to realize that thatdon't you.
It never fails.
If you're depending ontechnology as a big part of your
presentation, that technologyis going to fail exactly lost
without it, and the same thingyou don't get the worst thing.
We had that happen to one ofour podcasts.
We won't say the name.
(09:22):
We did what I thought was afantastic episode and the
technology failed and we didn'tget any of it.
Now we're going to have to goback and do it again.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
Yeah, yeah, I feel bad about that too.
But you learn right.
And going back to the oldcassette tapes is you learned
from mistakes, from mistakes andyou know, unfortunately, like
you were saying, with thatperson you interviewed who
passed away before you couldreschedule, that happens too,
(09:52):
you know it may not be to thatextent but in oral histories
that was always certainly aproblem.
But let's talk about how.
So let's talk a little bitabout technology so you can do
podcasts with a variety ofdifferent types of technology.
You know, you and I do this viaZoom, I edit it, I use a little
(10:15):
editing program and then I getit uploaded.
But a couple of.
Well, last year, maybe a yearbefore last, I forget, we were
in San Angelo and our goodfriend John Caraway was doing a
little bit of podcasting and heinvited us to his studio and we
(10:37):
did an interview with him.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
In Abilene.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
In Abilene, sorry, Abilene San Angelo.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
You know it's all West Texas In Abilene.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
Sorry, abilene San Angelo you know it's all West
Texas People in San Angelo willnot be happy about us saying
that Well that's right, they'llforgive me because I'm living in
Houston, but he had this greatstudio setup.
I mean it was just awesome andthe quality and everything was
just so nice.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
It's nice.
Yeah, we have one here.
I've never looked into using it.
We have a studio that you usefor podcasts.
Our college was doing a podcastfor a while.
I don't know that they're stilldoing.
I know that I went down and satin a podcast with them Gosh
years ago now when we talkedabout the 1619 project, uh, and
(11:24):
things like that, and it was anelaborate setting up.
Uh, just like uh, john carrawayhad at cisco college, uh, there
in abilene.
It was very, you know, they hadall the latest technology.
But you know, I'm gonna sayI've listened to that podcast,
I've listened to some and I, youknow I knew the studio set up
(11:45):
it doesn't sound much differentthan what we do, I mean.
So you know you don't have tohave that elaborate setup.
It does work.
I know a guy I've talked tothat does a podcast and he does
it every time on nothing but hisiPhone.
It's just he does the wholething on his iPhone.
Yeah, you know, sets itcompletely up all the recording
thing and the microphone and hehas a software program that he
(12:06):
has and he just it's all.
He has a software program thathe has and he just it's all he
ever records.
Only said I just do it on theiphone and then just upload it,
uh, straight from my iphone well, you know that's, that's,
that's true.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
right, there's a democratization of uh,
communication, uh, with socialmedia today, and that's so much
more available than it used tobe.
I I mean, when I was in highschool in the 80s, I worked in
radio, so I did that for 10years.
It got me through collegeworking in radio stations and
(12:40):
back then it was, you know, weused that magnetic tape and you
had to splice it with a razorblade and cut it and use the
tape to put it back togetheragain, and you could do all that
.
It was very expensive.
Today, you know somebody withtheir, with your iPhone, your
cell phone, you can do it.
(13:02):
So this is another thing thatwe want to tell people is that
it really doesn't have to beexpensive.
You can do it on a limitedbudget or no budget, it depends.
It's just on how you set thingsup.
And so, moving from thetechnology, so microphones the
only advice I would say onmicrophones is you're going to
(13:26):
be better off with what's calleda dynamic microphone.
There's two kinds there'sdynamic and condensers.
Most of the microphones you seein the wide world are condenser
microphones.
The problem with those is theycondense all the sound that they
come in so they get all sortsof sound.
(13:47):
They bring it in, they bring itup to a level.
Dynamic microphones the closeryou are to the microphone, the
better the quality, the betterthe voice, and it may not even
pick up stuff from far away.
So right now I'm in my officesitting to you, talking to you,
(14:09):
and outside I can hear thehighway traffic.
If I had a condenser microphone, it would elevate and you could
probably hear the traffic.
In fact you may hear it.
Now, if I was using a dynamicmicrophone, that would probably
not even register to you.
So that's one thing, one pieceof advice I would give you.
That's one thing, one piece ofadvice I would give you.
(14:30):
So after you get it, after youget it recorded, after you get
it recorded, you might want toedit out things like recorded it
right.
You might want to edit out someof these things.
And here is another area wheredon't let budget get in your way
, because there are a lot offree, online or downloadable
(14:57):
editing softwares that you canuse.
I mean, you're going to have tomake this digital right.
You can't.
The old days of analog tapearen't around anymore for social
media, or if they are, you'dhave to convert it into digital.
But once you have a digital andwith the editing I said I used
to use a knife and tape to doediting.
Today it's all on computer andI can do that, and the beauty of
(15:22):
that is nothing really getsthrown away, nothing.
The computer is just told starthere, stop here, start here,
stop here, start here, stop here.
And so it doesn't really affectin the great scheme of things.
You can always go back, you canalways correct mistakes, and
(15:44):
that's that is a nice thing thatwe used to not have.
Also, you can increase thesound.
Back in the old days ofmagnetic tape, whenever you
turned up the volume.
We're talking about how theperson you interviewed talked
very lightly.
With analog tape you could onlygo up so high and then you get
(16:07):
hiss and hum and all this otherextraneous noise thrown in there
.
Digital not so it just picks upwhat it hears and so there is
no hum, there is no and, and youcan filter a lot of that stuff
out.
So that's another area.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
some people don't even edit right, like there's
some people do podcasts oh, andyou can listen to some podcasts
and you can tell hey, theydidn't edit this, yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
It's just like editing a book, right, or an
article.
You put in things and you gomaybe I really didn't need to
say that, maybe that doesn't addto the story, and so maybe you
want to edit.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
I don't know what to do.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
Was I drunk when I wrote?
Speaker 1 (16:52):
this?
I don't know.
I've never done a podcast drunk.
I've written drunk, but I'venever done a podcast drunk.
Maybe we should try thatsometime, just see how a podcast
will turn out if us and a guestjust come on loaded.
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
Well, we don't know that.
Not all of our guests have beensober.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
It might be better if you do come on here loaded.
If you're one of our guests, wecould get one.
That's what we could do.
We'd get our good friend LelandTurner.
We could almost guarantee hewould come on drunk.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
So that would be the time to do that.
Yeah, I mean and this is theother thing right, make the
podcast what you want, what yourlisteners want to hear, what
they will well, in our case,what they'll put up with
listening to.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
Oh when they're real bored and stuff.
Well, gene, I think also partof that is you talk about, and a
good thing for us to starttalking about is how you're
going to platform this thing,because, listen, you can do a.
It's like a book that you wrote, it's like anything you've done
creatively.
You can do something that'sfantastic, but if nobody hears
it, if nobody can access it, ifit's too hard, then it doesn't
(18:00):
matter, because nobody's gonnanobody's gonna know what you've
done.
So you gotta have a goodplatform.
So maybe we can tell about theplatforms we use and how we you
know why we decided on what wedecided.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
Well, that's right.
So first you got the of gettingthe recording made, then you've
got to think about how are yougoing to, if you're going to
edit it, and this is important.
You cannot not edit itnecessarily because, um, you
have to have a platform.
And I don't want to talk aboutplatforms and give you specifics
(18:37):
.
I'll tell you what we use.
We use a platform calledBuzzsprouts and what we do is we
put together the program, weget it edited as much or as
little as we want, and then Ihave to feed that into
Buzzsprouts and Buzzsprouts.
In any of these platforms, theyhave specific requirements that
(18:59):
you have to follow, and what Imean by that is what format it's
like.
Well, I'm going to put it in,you know voice.
Well, I mean, there's certainformats.
It's just like on documents,right.
Whenever we're saving adocument, there's DOC, there's
DOCX Back in the old days therewas WordPerfect, wp and then
(19:20):
there's text, right.
So you get all these formats.
You need to figure out whatformat your hosting platform
wants, and that's what we'retalking about hosting platforms
and so Buzzsprout tells me itneeds to be in this format, it
needs to be this many bits persecond, and all this other
(19:42):
technical mumbo jumbo thatdoesn't make any sense.
But the thing is you don't needto know what it means.
You just make sure that thenumbers, that it's in their
format, that they want, andthere are some standards, so
it's not like you have to huntaround, it's pretty easy.
Okay, it has to be in this, ithas to be in this, it has to be
in this, okay, good.
So then you upload it.
(20:10):
And what Buzzsprouts does for us, it does two very important
things.
Now again, I edit, and when Iedit because we're on Zoom and
so sometimes there's some phoneit sounds like you're on a phone
.
So the editing software, I tryto run it through an equalizer
so we balance out to a morenatural-sounding voice and that
(20:35):
doesn't take but a couple ofseconds.
So that doesn't.
It's not hard work on my part.
I cut out extraneous stuff orinterruptions, I cut that out.
But what Buzzsprouts does forme and there's a number of
hosting platforms what it doesis it takes that and it balances
(21:00):
everything out, it equalizes iton top of what I've already
done.
So it makes it sound muchbetter.
I'm always impressed because Ithought, I think, I like to
think, I do kind of a good job,or at least a passable job.
It does a better job of that.
The other thing that it does andboth of these are added
(21:20):
features is it and Scott, thisis witchcraft, this is magic.
It takes our discussion, ourpodcast.
It transcribes it, all right.
So there's a transcription madeand then it uses the wizardry
(21:42):
of AI to interpret that.
Now you know, we sit around asacademics.
I don't know.
We've had several meetingsamong faculty on how to use AI,
what AI is going to mean, howit's going to change the future
and who uses it, the differentthings you can do with it.
But AI takes our transcript andit summarizes what we talked
(22:10):
about, and so it writes shownotes for me.
So if you go to the click onthe podcast, you go to the show
notes, it'll give you a summaryof what's in there, and then it
helps me so when I tag it soother people can find it if
they're looking for it.
It provides all thatinformation and that saves me so
(22:36):
much time.
It gives me suggestions ontitles.
It is fantastic.
It's a time saver, it's an ideagenerator, and so I've got to
take my hat off to it.
That is the benefit of thehosting platform.
So Scott do you guys use AI any.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
I have begun to use it a little bit.
You know, as a, as a tool I'vecan.
First off, it makes, if you,I've got a, I've got an app that
, if you record your lectures asyou give them, gives you an
outstanding summary.
The AI gives you your notes,what you said, and it's great to
go back and look and say, yeah,I did that.
Well, you know you don't havefeedback from your lecture quite
(23:21):
often or you go man, thatdidn't turn out like I thought
it should have.
For, you know, next time, AI issomething that's a whole other
show we ought to do.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
That is something we ought to talk about.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
We ought to talk about, because I think, as
historians, we get a little bitdefensive of something like this
and don't realize how good of atool something like AI could we
think it's going to go intoplagiarism and all these types
of things, I think, and itdoesn't.
It's a tool just like anythingelse.
What we need to learn to do isteach.
(23:50):
We need to learn how to use itand we need to learn how to
teach students how to do it.
And also it gives me an idea.
I think about it now.
I said you know what I need todo in class and what I need to
impart to my students is toteach them how to do more than
what ai can do.
We know what ai can do.
Ask them a subject.
So what I want my students andwhat my lessons should be, y'all
do go beyond what ai can do andthat's what you know, and there
(24:12):
you go.
That's the you know and thereyou go.
That's the whole thing.
But yeah, and I'll have to giveBuzzsprout a lot of a lot of
kudos because it is I mean, Idon't know about any others, but
it's turned out to be a verygreat platform.
I would recommend it foreverybody.
And they also distribute ourpodcast to Spotify and and Apple
podcasts and things like that,which is also another fantastic
(24:34):
tool for people to get it outthere.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
Well, that's another thing.
So you get this platform, likewe're using Buzzsprouts, and
look, technology programs changeall the time.
That's why I don't want to say,use this one, but I'm just
going to tell you my experiencewith AI.
You know so, not AI, but withBuzzsprouts.
But it gives you and you checkthis more than I do it gives you
(25:00):
all these statistics on how theshow is doing, where people are
.
I mean, we know, and I tell you, when I first learned this, it
floored me.
There are people in othercountries who have tuned into
our podcast.
Speaker 1 (25:17):
I figured that they made a mistake, thought it was
something else.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
That may be.
I don't know that they comeback.
But, you know I mean but thefact that we can tell and track
and see how many people arelistening to it, where they're
listening to it, which platformthey're using it.
Now I like to say you can findour podcast wherever fine
podcasts are sold, and you knowthat's just an old thing where
(25:43):
people used to say that aboutbooks.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
Where all fine stores , wherever things are, yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
Yeah, the thing about podcasts right is so you have
to find a distributor.
So after you get the, it's kindof in the publishing world,
like with a book you have apublisher and you've got
distributors right.
So the podcast world works verysimilarly.
You've got Buzzsprouts, whichis the platform, the publisher,
(26:10):
and then it sends it out and ithelps you do this.
If you get another platform,you may have to do some of this
work yourself, but Buzzsproutsyeah, and that's why it's a
great platform.
It makes it so easy because itdistributes to Spotify, to Apple
Podcast, to Google Play and awhole bunch of others that I
can't even think of.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
And does it very well you know there's a question
about podcasts.
This is more attuned to peoplein the same profession as us and
it's an academic type world,but it might apply to others.
But I just put to you, and Iguess we can end the programs
we're getting close with kind ofa discussion about podcasts.
This is that.
Is this doing a pod?
I haven't thought about it, butI've been thinking more and
(26:55):
more is this a creativescholarly?
Is this doing a part?
I haven't thought about it, butI've been thinking more and
more.
Is this a creative scholarlyoutput?
Is it a creative scholarlyexercise?
You know, in our world we have,you know, we have faculty
activity reports.
Would you put this on somethinglike that?
Is that what we're doing here?
Speaker 2 (27:14):
Something that's very creative.
I put it in teaching I considerit teaching, yeah, but I mean, I
guess, right, you could,depending, I mean, I think, in
our I see the way we're doing itand again, this goes back to
the you know what is yourconcept.
I see what we're doing asteaching others, right, we're,
uh, we get this is a podcast, Ifor people who are teaching
(27:37):
history, want some new ideas,want to talk about what they're
doing, and this is for students,but also for people who teach
Texas history and practice itand maybe have some interest,
right, so I see this as ateaching endeavor, interest,
(27:58):
right, so I see this as ateaching endeavor.
But I think, depending on whatyour podcast, I mean, some
people do writing and they'rewriting the podcast.
And if I were doing on my ownresearch and I were talking
about new research that I wasdoing, yeah, I would consider
that scholarly.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
I ask that and it comes to me just as a sense of
you know you said a word earlierabout talking about social
media and this type of activitydemocratization of the message,
if you will and it goes back toI always when I've done some
research and stuff and we talkabout when the airlines are
(28:34):
deregulated and you had anairlines like southwest and and
jet blue and some of these othercome along that started as low
cost or whatever one thing thatthe theme of that is that those
outlets, whatever you think ofthem, democratized flying.
It became something thateverybody did instead of just a
few wealthy people did.
To a large extent, and I thinkin a creative sense, podcasting
(29:00):
is democratizing people gettingtheir message out or what
they're interested in out.
You know, both of us arepublished authors and we know
how difficult it is to conceivethe book but even more than that
, convincing a publisher anddoing it to get that out there
so people can buy it and read it.
But a podcast allows you toalmost self-publish on your own
(29:25):
at a very budgetary means andget that word out and get some
of what you say out.
So podcasting in a whole sensemay be the democratization of
messages in the United States.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
You know, scott, I think you're 100% accurate.
I want to agree with you, and Ithink that's a good note to
close the show out.
We've had two episodes on thisand I'm always happy to talk to
people about it more, but Ithink you kind of summed up that
that is what we know aboutpodcasting.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
That's what, yeah, and what which?
Speaker 2 (29:59):
means.
That's it.
I think that I think you'reright, you know.
So, um, I want to say thanks alot for listening, All right.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
We did all right.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
We still need to do one on food.
Speaker 1 (30:08):
Yeah, I know, I'm going to teach a whole class on
food.
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