February 16, 2024 • 35 mins
Embark on a voyage of digital discovery with me, Steve Woodard, as we navigate the bustling crossroads of the Metaverse and Web3, guided by the pioneering insights of Dr. Jane Thomason. Imagine a world where virtual tourism and healthcare are intertwined with our daily lives, and immersive technologies are no longer confined to the realms of gaming. In this episode, we bring these visions into focus, discussing the gadgets that transport us there, from the high-end Oculus to the AR capabilities of your smartphone. Dr. Thomason illuminates how innovations like affordable AR glasses could open doors to inclusive tech landscapes, ensuring everyone has a ticket to the future.
Turn your attention Eastward, where Asia's tech scene thrives unshackled by legacy systems, leading an innovation charge in gaming and beyond. We explore how this dynamic region is harnessing blockchain technology, transcending its roots in cryptocurrency to revolutionize banking and supply chains. The voyage doesn't end there; we tackle the thorny bramble of consumer trust and regulatory frameworks, sharing insights on the Commonwealth's quest for a unified legal approach to digital assets. This episode is a mosaic of stories that intertwine to illustrate the complexities and triumphs of blockchain adoption around the globe.
Finally, we cast a spotlight on the World Metaverse Council and their pivotal role in forging the future of education through standards, ethics, and policy within the open metaverse. Our discussion travels through a landscape where data-driven training meets the demands of an ever-evolving economy and how we, along with Dr. Thomason and other visionaries, are planting the seeds for a global network that supports women in deep tech. As the journey concludes, I invite you to engage and amplify the conversation, ensuring that the ripples of today's discussions inspire the waves of tomorrow's innovations. Stay tuned for more episodes where we'll continue to chart the unexplored territories of technology.
About Dr Jane Thomson
Dr. Jane Thomason is a globally recognized author, thought leader-influencer and investor in the areas of Web3, Metaverse, HealthTech, and Tech for Sustainability. She is at the forefront of understanding and navigating the evolving landscape of emerging technologies.
She holds distinguished roles on the editorial boards of "The Journal of Metaverse" and "Frontiers in Blockchain," showcasing her commitment to advancing knowledge in these domains. As an Industry Associate at University College London's Centre for Blockchain, she actively contributes to the academic and research community.
She has authored “Blockchain for Global Social Change," "Applied Ethics in a Digital World," and "Advancements in the New World of Web 3: A Look Toward the Decentralized Future." Her insightful writings provide valuable insights into the transformative potential of blockchain, Web3, and related technologies.
She frequently consults with industry and government stakeholders, sharing her deep understanding of how emerging technologies will shape the future. Her ability to explain complex concepts in a clear and accessible manner makes her a sought-after advisor in various sectors.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Welcome to Tech Travels hosted by the seasoned
tech enthusiast and industryexpert, steve Woodard.
With over 25 years ofexperience and a track record of
collaborating with thebrightest minds in technology,
steve is your seasoned guidethrough the ever-evolving world
of innovation.
Join us as we embark on aninsightful journey, exploring
(00:27):
the past, present and future oftech under Steve's expert
guidance.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Hey there, tech enthusiast, and welcome back to
another episode of Tech Travels.
Get ready to embark on anelectrifying journey as we dive
deep into the world of emergingtechnologies with none other
than the remarkable Dr JaneThomason.
Dr Thomason isn't just apioneer.
She's a force to be reckonedwith, leading with unparalleled
(00:53):
expertise and vision, she's atthe forefront of revolutionizing
industries globally through thepower of blockchain and
emerging technologies.
As chair of the board for KasaiHoldings, founder of the Web3
Institute and an active memberof the World Metaverse Council,
dr Thomason's influence knows nobounds.
Her accolades speak volumes,from being recognized as one of
(01:16):
the top 10 most influentialthought leaders in blockchain to
earning the prestigious titleof Web3 leader of the year.
But Dr Thomason's impact extendsfar beyond mere recognition.
With a PhD in philosophy fromthe University of Queensland and
a track record of authoringgroundbreaking books on
blockchain, web3 and Metaverse,she's not just shaping the
(01:38):
future, she's redefining it.
So fasten your seatbelts andbrace yourself for an
exhilarating conversation thatwill challenge your perceptions
and ignite your passion for thelimitless possibilities of
tomorrow.
So let's welcome Dr JaneThomason to the forefront of
innovation on tech travels.
Dr Thomason, welcome to TechTravels.
(02:00):
Could you introduce yourself toour audience.
If you don't mind, just givethem a little bit of background
on yourself.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
Yeah, hi everyone.
It's great to be here with you.
My name is Jane Thomason andI've been involved in the tech
industry relatively recently,only since 2016.
I was in healthcare before that, but in that time I've really
become incredibly interested inhow new technologies are going
to impact our world in thefuture.
(02:28):
So I spend my time researching,speaking, writing about the
different technologies that arecoming up and how we're going to
use them and what are some ofthe risks about them.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
So, dr Thomason, I would love for us to understand
a little bit more about Web3 andthe Metaverse and artificial
intelligence, so can you help uskind of start this journey?
Where should we begin?
Speaker 3 (02:53):
Okay, so let me start on Metaverse, because I think
that's easier for people to gettheir heads around.
So Metaverse is an immersive,always on environment that you
can go into maybe using headsets, but not necessarily using
headsets and happy to talk aboutthat if you want to, and you
can do a whole lot of things inthis immersive environment so
(03:16):
you can meet friends, socialize,you can go to concerts.
But some of the things thatpeople don't realize is that you
could also have otherexperiences, like tourism and
travel experiences I'll speakabout that in a moment but also
get healthcare services,pharmacy services, receive
education.
So Metaverse is much biggerthan simply the games that your
(03:41):
kids play.
So let me just start on thetravel and tourism, because
already people are starting torealize that creating virtual
replicas of hard to reachtourist environments or
monuments that really don't needto have 100,000 people a week
(04:02):
marching across them is a waythat people are going to be able
to immerse themselves in thatexperience, have that experience
.
So that's great for people whocan't go.
It's also great for perhaps, theelderly or people with
disabilities who can't travel.
They can have the travelexperience.
But for people like possiblyyou and me, steve, we might be
(04:26):
thinking oh look, I'd reallylove to go to the Galapagos
Islands, but I'm not sure.
This way you can actually havea look, go inside, interact with
avatars or virtual humans inthat environment, talk about
what the place is like, what thehotels are like, what the food
is like, and then decide thatyou do or don't want to have
(04:49):
that experience.
So that's going to be a hugeone and in terms of the tourism
brands, they're going to be ableto give people that experience,
to be able to see it, to picktheir rooms and to get a whole
lot of information before theycome.
That's not possible at thistime.
But let me just stop there,because once I head on Web 3, it
(05:12):
adds on a whole lot of otherbenefits.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
I'm really eager to dive deeper into the concept of
the Metaverse and its veryunique experience.
Currently, we're seeing anarray of consumer products
hitting the market things likeOculus and Apple Vision Pro and
they are offering an immersiveexperience through wearable
devices.
But I think that this is theonly gateway to the Metaverse.
Or are there alternative waysfor people to engage with it in
(05:36):
their daily lives, perhapswithout the need for specialized
hardware?
Speaker 3 (05:41):
Well, I think my own opinion and not everyone agrees
with me is that those deviceslike the Oculus and the Apple
Glasses and so forth and MagicLeap they're going to be for the
wealthy.
I always like to think abouttechnology as how it becomes
accessible to everyone.
So I actually believe that andpeople are creating these
(06:06):
augmented reality immersiveexperiences using tablets or
internet, and that's going to bean mobile phone and so that's
going to be much more realisticfor many people, because 60% of
the world's population havemobile phones and the majority
of people get their internetinformation from mobile phones
anyway.
So people are creating thosekinds of experiences.
(06:29):
But also I was excited a coupleof weeks ago when I was in
Finland met a young innovatorwho's developing augmented
reality glasses that are muchmore like the glasses that we
wear that can be assembledyourself for around $20.
That means any student oranyone who doesn't want to spend
(06:52):
a lot of money but wants toaccess the metaverse can get
these glasses at some point inthe future, assemble them and
have them available for thatexperience.
So I think we'll see lots ofexciting developments to make it
easier and more accessible forpeople.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
That's truly remarkable.
I mean, making technologyaccessible at an affordable
price could really greatlyexpand its reach and adoption,
and having it readily availablefor people to experiment with
and explore its possibilitiesreally could lead to some
astounding advancements.
And this seamlessly transitionsme to our next topic, the
(07:30):
relationship between Web3 andthe metaverse.
Are they intertwined?
Can one exist without the other?
Or is being part of Web3 aprerequisite for accessing the
metaverse, or are therealternative pathways?
Speaker 3 (07:50):
Either you can be in both and not the other.
So you can be in metaversewithout being in Web3, and
indeed, the big techs that aredeveloping metaverse products,
like Apple, google Meta and soforth they're not developing
Web3 metaverses, but they'redeveloping great immersive
experiences that people might bekeen on having.
(08:14):
And similarly, in Web3, you canuse Web3 not in an immersive way
, simply as a technology thathelps you create communities and
incentivize and exchange and soforth, but it doesn't have to
be immersive.
So what I like to believe isthat the future of the internet,
(08:39):
or some people are calling itthe spatial web, is the Web3
metaverse, where you're bringingtogether the affordances of
Web3, which is reallyunderpinned by blockchain, and
the key feature of that thatpeople need to get their heads
around is that it's adecentralized database that
allows people to exchange peerto peer, and a lot of people I
(09:04):
speak to say well, I can alreadysend money to my auntie.
Why do I want to use Web3?
And the answer to that is youwill be sending money through an
intermediary who will be takingsome of your money and it won't
get directly to your auntie inmost cases, whereas with Web3,
you can immediately transfer itto your auntie without an
(09:26):
intermediary and at virtually nocost.
And so it's that peer to peertransfer, not only of money but
of all forms of value that makeWeb3 so interesting.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
Yeah, it is really truly remarkable, and I'm really
eager to dive deeper into theprofound impact around
blockchain and on Web3.
It has been a personal passionof mine for a long time, but
before we delve in too deeply, Iwant to circle back briefly to
the metaverse.
One area that I think goesoften unnoticed is its
intersection with the automotiveindustry.
(10:00):
I recall that you gave akeynote speech last year at the
GITEC annual conference and onthis topic, I think it would be
very fascinating to explore thepotential and the future
landscape of automotiveintegration within the metaverse
.
Speaker 3 (10:17):
Yeah, well, that's a very exciting topic, to be
honest with you.
I was asked to put together apresentation on Web3 and the
automotive industry and I foundit one of the most fun things
that I'd ever put together,because there's so much going on
.
So, if you start, manycompanies are already having
(10:39):
virtual showrooms, for example,so you're able to go into a
virtual showroom and have a lookat the cars and so forth.
But they're also using it sothat you can actually, in a
gamified way, test drive a carin the metaverse.
So you can go into thisgame-like experience if you like
(11:00):
and it's often hyper realisticand take a car for a drive in a
very realistic way.
So it's a way of gettingconsumers involved and giving
them the experience of drivingthe car.
But some companies are alsousing it.
For example, in Asia inparticular, some of the car
companies are using avatarsalespeople because avatars are
(11:24):
probably more usual andacceptable in Asia and
particularly for the young.
So instead of using a humansalesperson, they're using kind
of attractive, in a cool sense,avatars to be able to draw young
Asians into having a look inthe virtual showroom at the cars
(11:44):
that are on sale.
They're also using it as a wayto get consumers involved in the
design of new vehicles, sothey're able to come into a
virtual collaboration space,give comments on the shape of
the car, the texture, thecolours and all sorts of things
like that.
So instead of doing endlessfocus groups, which is what they
would have done in the past,they're able to get people in to
(12:09):
actually have direct input.
You know, looking at a digitaltwin of the new model of the car
and digital twins are reallyimportant in many industries.
So a digital twin is a virtualrepresentation of a real object.
So in this case, they cancreate a digital twin of a
(12:29):
future prototype of a car andthey can test it, they can tweak
it, they can change the roof,the doors, make the engine
hotter or colder or whatever itis you do with engines before it
actually goes into production.
So it's not only in theautomotive industry.
It will be so in manyindustries, including the
aviation industry and includingin the healthcare industry,
(12:53):
doctors are using digital twinsto prepare for highly complex
organisations.
I was watching a video a weekago where incredibly complex
surgery to separate Siamesetwins had been practiced and
practiced, and practiced using adigital twin based on the
(13:13):
images of the way these twochildren were connected.
So sorry, I veered away fromthe automotive industry, but
it's super exciting.
But also, if you think aboutthings that people are
experimenting with now, if youre in a self-driving car, what
are you going to do?
Well, you don't need to drivethe car anymore, so therefore,
(13:34):
the car can become an immersivespace where you can do almost
anything while you re on the wayto wherever it is that you re
going.
So, in summary, there s lots ofopportunities and lots of
experimentation going on in theautomotive industry.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
Yeah, indeed it s fascinating.
In your discussions withautomotive leaders, what
challenges do you typically hearthat they have regarding the
adoption of such technology?
I m really curious to hearabout the experiences and the
hurdles they face in integratingthese type of innovative
solutions.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
Look, I think it s very variable, because the ones
that are actually trying to doit they tend to have whole
innovation teams that areworking on this they ve already
made the decision that this isthe way that they need to go.
There are others that aren'tready to get there yet, so they
re much harder to talk to, but Ithink the ones who ve realised
(14:32):
that something in this immersivefuture is going to be important
for their industry are reallyopen to ideas and moving along.
I mean, if you ask me what aresome of the challenges and there
are still challenges in termsof we talked about the access
with the goggles latency andinteroperability can be
(14:55):
challenges and, in addition,user acceptability can be
challenges.
So I think that s going to varyindustry by industry and age
group by age group, because, ifyou think about the Gen Z and
the Gen Alpha s coming up, theyre totally comfortable with
being digital, so they ll betotally happy to have these
(15:17):
immersive experiences in manysectors that they re interested
in participating in.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
Yeah, and it appears that automakers are gradually
starting to embrace more of anagile approach, aiming for user
experience tailored to thespecific desires of their
customers.
However, I think that thechallenge really lies in scaling
this type of personalisedapproach.
How do you really ensure thatreally widespread implementation
(15:46):
meets the diverse needs of theconsumer base?
Speaker 3 (15:50):
Well, I was impressed , I have to say, when I was
doing the research for thisspeech, about how many of the
automotive are already embracingthis and moving in terms of not
only experimentation butactually using it, so I think it
s actually one of theindustries that s more advanced.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
Do we observe this trend more predominantly amongst
automakers in regions like Asia, where there's more of a focus
on rapidly innovating anddelivering vehicles according to
customer demand, or is it moreprevalent among US based car
companies?
Where do we witness theforefront of innovation in this
regard?
Speaker 3 (16:32):
Well, look, I'm not an expert on the automotive
industry, so I don't want tosound like I am, but what I saw.
But I want to comment on Asia,because I think Asia is a very
big and important topic in termsof who's going to embrace these
kinds of technologies.
First, in automotive, what I sawwas the luxury brands in
(16:56):
particular, right across thespectrum, are all working at one
level with it.
So in terms of whether it's theWest or the East, I'm not
prepared to comment on that, butcertainly a lot of activity
there.
But in terms of embracingtechnology, I mean we saw anyway
during the pandemic in Asia,across a whole variety of
(17:19):
industries, absolutelyembracement of virtual
technologies and real comfortwith it.
We see in gaming, which is oneof the biggest industries in the
world, is also one of the sortof leading industries that's
taking men averse forward thatAsia has the largest numbers of
(17:39):
gamers and the fastest growth ingaming and the fastest growth
in mobile based gaming.
And so I think we're going tosee continuing and incredible
innovation in Asian countries,and we've already seen it in the
more advanced ones, like China,japan, korea and so forth.
(18:00):
But we've got to look at Indiaand Indonesia and Vietnam,
because they're all advancing apace and they don't seem to be
as stifled by legacy systemsthat some of our countries do.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
It seems like there's a gradual curve of adoption,
with some being trailblazers andothers who are very slow to
adopt.
So, just transitioning on thetopic of blockchain, which you
mentioned earlier, I want to getto get to your experiences with
it and how it's evolvedsignificantly in the last few
years, particularly the growingacceptance into mainstream
(18:36):
environments.
Now, initially it wasassociated with gaming.
Blockchain has really witnessedthe widespread adoption across
many enterprises over the lastfew years and, from your
perspective, how has thistransformation influenced the
way that we develop applicationsto really conduct business?
How has it emerged as asignificant disruptor in various
(18:56):
industries that we see today?
Speaker 3 (18:59):
I want to separate and this is important for the
audience because when you speakabout blockchain, most people
think you're talking aboutBitcoin and cryptocurrencies or
digital assets, and I want toset them to one side, because
that's a different conversation,because what you're talking
about is blockchain for industryand for social utility, and so
(19:20):
people need to understand thatthere are multiple different
kinds of tokens or digitalassets and they're not all
speculative cryptocurrencies.
So, in terms of industries,well, obviously, you know,
gaming is one with the Web3gaming that I personally believe
is going to move fast.
But in terms of otherindustries, where we're seeing
(19:44):
it in banking and finance,they're realizing, particularly
in the back office functions,with things like settlements and
remittances and all sorts offunctions like that, that banks
and financial services arerealizing that the technology
has got some value In terms ofsupply chains.
This is a significantindustrial use case because it
(20:06):
takes friction out of supplychains, it creates transparency
in supply chains and it's beingused across a whole range of
industries, you know, in termsof supply chains, and it's also
being used in healthcare forsecure data exchange, for
example.
But coming back to your pointabout widespread adoption, I
(20:28):
think there's two things to besaid about that.
The first one is from aconsumer point of view.
Widespread adoption will takeplace when it does something
useful for the consumer.
So if there's something that Iwant to achieve and I can do it
better, faster, cheaper, easierwith something that's built on a
blockchain, I'm probably goingto use that, and until that time
(20:51):
comes, the consumer adoption isgoing to be slow.
But the other thing that Ibelieve is that in the future,
blockchain will be theunderpinning infrastructure for
a lot of the technology that weuse.
We won't even know it's there,we won't talk about it, we won't
be saying has it got ablockchain, we'll just be using
it because it enables certainfunctions that are incredibly
(21:14):
helpful to many industries.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
How do we get to a point where we start to have
more transparency and trust withblockchain?
Speaker 3 (21:22):
Okay, that's a difficult question, because
whether that's a question about,does blockchain provide
transparency and trust?
And the answer to that is yes,but is it?
Do people believe that?
And the answer to that isprobably not everyone, and
they're suspicious of it.
And they're suspicious of itbecause of the amount of frauds
(21:47):
and scams and similar thingsthat have been perpetrated in
the whole crypto digital assetsarena.
And so immediately I have thisexperience a lot I say something
about blockchain and people go,oh, bitcoin, the dark web.
I mean they don't know.
But what they do know is it'sbad and it's not to be trusted
(22:07):
and it's used for nefariousactivities, which is partially
true.
But so is the US dollar.
It's not entirely true as atechnology.
It's been documented andthere's as much evidence as you
would like to see about itsability to bring trust and
transparency into processes andexchanges of information and
(22:33):
exchanges of value.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
Right, exactly, but there is a certain significant
amount of scrutiny, particularlyin the US, regarding blockchain
technology.
There's definitely someskepticism from the governmental
bodies around its implications.
It's becoming increasinglyevident how really blockchain it
is revolutionizing things likefinancial services, no doubt
(22:59):
about it.
But the essence lies in itsability to facilitate the
transactions among parties thatmay not inherently trust each
other, and they leverage that byusing this distributed ledger
technology.
But despite the misconceptionsabout blockchains being
perceived negatively, it doeshave practical applications and
(23:19):
we are seeing widespreadadoption across various
enterprises.
Speaker 3 (23:24):
Look, there's more than 400 banks are either using
or experimenting with it.
There is absolutely no doubtabout it.
Work's just being done by acolleague of mine and it's going
to be considered by theCommonwealth the British
Commonwealth of 54 countries, todevelop a common legal
(23:46):
framework for digital assets forCommonwealth countries.
I mean, this is real and it'sserious, and I think the
challenge and certainly in theUS the regulators are a little
bit schizophrenic about how theywant to deal with it.
But the other issue is it's notone thing, there's not one
regulator.
Whether it's a commodity orwhether it's a security, it's
(24:08):
going to be regulated in adifferent way, and this, of
course, will apply in otherhighly regulated sectors like
healthcare.
They're going to have to have alook at it in the context of
the regulations that exist inthat industry.
And so part of theschizophrenia, if you like, is
some of the bad things that havehappened on the financial side
(24:29):
of blockchain, and I think partof it is that the regulators are
just trying to catch up withwhat it is, what they should be
regulating, how to regulate itand how not to stifle it,
because it is an excitinginnovation.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
I mean, it appears that addressing regulations from
a regulatory body for emergingtechnologies follows a three
wave pattern.
So initially there's a lag aslegislative bodies like Congress
grapple with understanding andadapting to the new paradigms,
and this was really evidentduring the internet's inception,
(25:04):
where regulators really wererooted in an outdated telecom
type of mentality.
And then you see, the secondwave of that was around social
media and that ushered in a newset of challenges.
And so now we're now in themidst of the third wave, which
is really characterized by theemergence of technologies like
(25:25):
Metaverse, blockchain and AI.
There needs to be a pressingneed for transparency and trust
around this regulatory framework.
So the question really is myquestion is should govern
governance be left to thegovernment, or should the
private industry take the reins?
What are your thoughts onestablishing a governing body to
(25:47):
ensure ethical use of thesetechnologies in people's
everyday lives?
Speaker 3 (25:53):
Look, I think that's a that's a massive question, and
you know some of the elementsthat we have to think about
because you know, presumablyyou're sitting in the US and
thinking about the US government, but many of these technologies
travel beyond the sovereignstate, and so thinking about how
to regulate cross-borderecosystems that operate across
(26:17):
different borders is going to bean issue how to get people in
different parts of the world tobe able to agree.
I think there is no doubt thatthe system that's been in place
for global governance sinceWorld War II is not fit to be
able to regulate the internet,and we don't have any kind of
(26:38):
alternative.
And yet we have a world where wehave these big tech companies
who have economies larger thanmost countries, and yet they're
not in the formal governance ofanything or been elected by
anyone or anything else.
I think we're in a bit of aconundrum at the moment between
the old world and the new, andI'm not quite sure how some kind
(27:00):
of body-entity collaboration isgoing to emerge that's going to
enable the development ofwidely accepted policies and
standards and deal with some ofthe ethical issues that we have
with technology.
There are smaller groups allaround the world that are
working on it and someindividual governments and some
(27:22):
grouping of governments like theEU is very active, for example
are working on these matters,but there's not going to be one
answer.
I suspect that there's going tobe kind of geographical
groupings that all agree to kindof collaborate and have similar
rules.
But that still doesn't answerthe questions about how we call
(27:43):
the big techs to account.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, you raise a crucialpoint about the complexities of
global collaboration andregulation, and I think it's
clear that navigating theintersection of technology,
ethics and governance reallywill require an innovative
approach and perhaps some sortof regional agreement to address
the unique challenges that eacharea faces.
(28:07):
Now, as for holding big techcompanies accountable, look, I
mean, it's a multifaceted issueand that really demands careful
consideration and collectiveaction.
But if we look at how wenavigate the global landscape,
it really presents a set ofunique challenges, especially
when we consider theunprecedented level of
(28:27):
connectivity that we experience.
Every day we have individualsconnecting across the globe, and
that, basically, is basicallypredicting which governments
will embrace or resist certaintype of technologies as it
becomes uncertain.
So, as an active member of theWorld Metaverse Council, I'm
really curious to learn moreabout the initiatives and the
(28:51):
advocacy efforts undertaken bythe council that promote the
adoption and acceptance of themetaverse.
So could you provide someinsights into the council's role
and how it contributes topositive change in this very
dynamic space?
Speaker 3 (29:07):
Well look, the World Metaverse Council basically
started, as did a few othergroups, in a giant vacuum where
we realised that all of thesetechnologies were developing
incredibly fast and there wasn'tanywhere to go to be able to
talk about standards andpolicies and ethics and keeping
(29:29):
an open metaverse and makingsure that people don't come to
harm, and so forth.
So effectively, we formedaround the idea of providing I
like to call it a distributedthink tank as much as anything,
because in this world there's noone place.
You can't go to Stanford andget all the information you need
about the metaverse.
It's not like that anymore.
There's hundreds of scientistsand companies all around the
(29:53):
world at different levels,building all sorts of
innovations around metaverse andAI and so forth.
So you need to find a placewhere you can gather this kind
of intellectual horsepower fromall around the world to help
understand what's going on andto share about what are the
impacts of that.
(30:13):
So we have working groups onregulation, for example,
healthcare standards, openmetaverse, different groups like
that that are really interested, people from all around the
world who wanted to find a forumto be able to come and speak,
to be able to develop ideas, toactually further develop what
(30:36):
they were working on by findingcollaborators from elsewhere in
the world, and also to producesome thought pieces.
For example, ethics is a biginterest of mine around just
what are the ethical concernsrelated to the metaverse, and we
make contributions, for example, to the International
Telecommunications Unit, who aretrying to create global
(30:58):
standards for the metaverse.
So it's really a place wherepeople can come.
It's not led by government.
It's an informal body ofinterested people from about 150
countries around the world whoare all working on different
aspects of this.
So it's actually a wonderfulcommunity, but that's what it is
(31:20):
.
It's a distributed network ofpeople who are working on this.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
That's incredibly.
That's very powerful.
I mean, the insights into thecollaborative efforts within the
Metaverse Council really helpshed light on this diverse
perspective that's reallydriving innovation and
technology.
And again, I agree that theemphasis on open dialogue and
ethical consideration reallyunderscores that importance of
global collaboration and shapingthe future of the metaverse and
(31:47):
I think that that approachreally sets a promising type of
precedent for addressing complexchallenges and it really
fosters responsible developmentin this digital landscape.
It's very, very fascinating.
Speaker 3 (32:00):
Well, the focus that I have for this year is around
education using immersivetechnologies, because and I'm
working with collaborators inTurkey and Bulgaria and the US
on this because, effectively, Ibelieve that we're moving into
this rapidly changingskills-based economy, where
(32:21):
people are going to have to bere-skilled quite regularly in
order to be able to get jobs andkeep up to date with what's
going on.
I don't believe that thetraditional education system is
going to be able to respondquickly enough and that we are
going to be able to benefit fromthe immersive technologies and
(32:44):
the ability to be able to usedata to actually analyse whether
people are developing theseskills appropriately and so
forth, to produce highly, highlyfocused, data-driven, curated,
skills-based training coursesusing immersive reality.
So that's the project that I'mreally focusing on during this
(33:07):
year.
Speaker 2 (33:08):
Exactly, education and learning and the development
are really critical componentsof our rapidly evolving
technical landscape.
The pace of innovation reallyfar exceeds what traditional
textbooks and educationalinstitutions can keep up with,
and many schools lack resourcesto really teach these type of
(33:28):
emerging technologies likeartificial intelligence and like
blockchain, and oftenindividuals are going to find
themselves on a journey ofself-discovery and they're going
to have to learn, they're goingto have to experiment and
they're going to have to immersethemselves in these
technologies independently tostay relevant in today's digital
age.
It's really going to befascinating to see.
Speaker 3 (33:50):
Well, that's what I believe.
The other one I didn't want tofail to mention was, again
working with other collaboratorsaround the world.
We're developing a women indeep tech network, which in time
, will become an accelerator anda fund, and we're really
excited about finding the womenall around the world who are
(34:10):
working on scientific discoveryaround deep tech and bringing
them together and helping gettheir discoveries out and funded
and scaled.
So that's the other thing thatI'm working on.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
Incredible.
Dr Jane, I want to express mysincere gratitude for joining us
today and sharing yourinvaluable insights on
blockchain technology and themetaverse, and your experience
has truly enriched ourconversation.
I hope we can continue thedialogue in the future and have
you back on the podcast to talkmore about the learning aspect
and more about the women intechnology, and thank you again
(34:44):
for your time and expertise.
And again I want to express mydeepest gratitude for joining us
today on Tech Travels.
Speaker 3 (34:50):
Thank you, it's been such a pleasure, and thank you
everyone for listening.
Speaker 2 (34:54):
Thank you everyone for joining us on today's show.
If you liked this episode,please take a moment to rate the
show and be sure to subscribeto the channel.
If you would like to benotified when new shows are
posted and if you want to sharethis show with your friends,
please share on your preferredsocial media platform.
I would love your help to bringawareness to this channel Until
next time as we venture intothe future and into the realms
(35:16):
of technology.
Until then, stay curious, stayinformed and happy travels.
Speaker 1 (35:22):
Thanks so much for listening to the Tech Travels
podcast with Steve Woodard.
Please tune in next time and besure to follow us and subscribe
on the Apple podcast andSpotify platforms.
We'll see you next time.
Welcome to Tech Travels hosted by the seasoned
tech enthusiast and industryexpert, steve Woodard.
With over 25 years ofexperience and a track record of
collaborating with thebrightest minds in technology,
steve is your seasoned guidethrough the ever-evolving world
of innovation.
Join us as we embark on aninsightful journey, exploring
(00:27):
the past, present and future oftech under Steve's expert
guidance.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Hey there, tech enthusiast, and welcome back to
another episode of Tech Travels.
Get ready to embark on anelectrifying journey as we dive
deep into the world of emergingtechnologies with none other
than the remarkable Dr JaneThomason.
Dr Thomason isn't just apioneer.
She's a force to be reckonedwith, leading with unparalleled
(00:53):
expertise and vision, she's atthe forefront of revolutionizing
industries globally through thepower of blockchain and
emerging technologies.
As chair of the board for KasaiHoldings, founder of the Web3
Institute and an active memberof the World Metaverse Council,
dr Thomason's influence knows nobounds.
Her accolades speak volumes,from being recognized as one of
(01:16):
the top 10 most influentialthought leaders in blockchain to
earning the prestigious titleof Web3 leader of the year.
But Dr Thomason's impact extendsfar beyond mere recognition.
With a PhD in philosophy fromthe University of Queensland and
a track record of authoringgroundbreaking books on
blockchain, web3 and Metaverse,she's not just shaping the
(01:38):
future, she's redefining it.
So fasten your seatbelts andbrace yourself for an
exhilarating conversation thatwill challenge your perceptions
and ignite your passion for thelimitless possibilities of
tomorrow.
So let's welcome Dr JaneThomason to the forefront of
innovation on tech travels.
Dr Thomason, welcome to TechTravels.
(02:00):
Could you introduce yourself toour audience.
If you don't mind, just givethem a little bit of background
on yourself.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
Yeah, hi everyone.
It's great to be here with you.
My name is Jane Thomason andI've been involved in the tech
industry relatively recently,only since 2016.
I was in healthcare before that, but in that time I've really
become incredibly interested inhow new technologies are going
to impact our world in thefuture.
(02:28):
So I spend my time researching,speaking, writing about the
different technologies that arecoming up and how we're going to
use them and what are some ofthe risks about them.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
So, dr Thomason, I would love for us to understand
a little bit more about Web3 andthe Metaverse and artificial
intelligence, so can you help uskind of start this journey?
Where should we begin?
Speaker 3 (02:53):
Okay, so let me start on Metaverse, because I think
that's easier for people to gettheir heads around.
So Metaverse is an immersive,always on environment that you
can go into maybe using headsets, but not necessarily using
headsets and happy to talk aboutthat if you want to, and you
can do a whole lot of things inthis immersive environment so
(03:16):
you can meet friends, socialize,you can go to concerts.
But some of the things thatpeople don't realize is that you
could also have otherexperiences, like tourism and
travel experiences I'll speakabout that in a moment but also
get healthcare services,pharmacy services, receive
education.
So Metaverse is much biggerthan simply the games that your
(03:41):
kids play.
So let me just start on thetravel and tourism, because
already people are starting torealize that creating virtual
replicas of hard to reachtourist environments or
monuments that really don't needto have 100,000 people a week
(04:02):
marching across them is a waythat people are going to be able
to immerse themselves in thatexperience, have that experience
.
So that's great for people whocan't go.
It's also great for perhaps, theelderly or people with
disabilities who can't travel.
They can have the travelexperience.
But for people like possiblyyou and me, steve, we might be
(04:26):
thinking oh look, I'd reallylove to go to the Galapagos
Islands, but I'm not sure.
This way you can actually havea look, go inside, interact with
avatars or virtual humans inthat environment, talk about
what the place is like, what thehotels are like, what the food
is like, and then decide thatyou do or don't want to have
(04:49):
that experience.
So that's going to be a hugeone and in terms of the tourism
brands, they're going to be ableto give people that experience,
to be able to see it, to picktheir rooms and to get a whole
lot of information before theycome.
That's not possible at thistime.
But let me just stop there,because once I head on Web 3, it
(05:12):
adds on a whole lot of otherbenefits.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
I'm really eager to dive deeper into the concept of
the Metaverse and its veryunique experience.
Currently, we're seeing anarray of consumer products
hitting the market things likeOculus and Apple Vision Pro and
they are offering an immersiveexperience through wearable
devices.
But I think that this is theonly gateway to the Metaverse.
Or are there alternative waysfor people to engage with it in
(05:36):
their daily lives, perhapswithout the need for specialized
hardware?
Speaker 3 (05:41):
Well, I think my own opinion and not everyone agrees
with me is that those deviceslike the Oculus and the Apple
Glasses and so forth and MagicLeap they're going to be for the
wealthy.
I always like to think abouttechnology as how it becomes
accessible to everyone.
So I actually believe that andpeople are creating these
(06:06):
augmented reality immersiveexperiences using tablets or
internet, and that's going to bean mobile phone and so that's
going to be much more realisticfor many people, because 60% of
the world's population havemobile phones and the majority
of people get their internetinformation from mobile phones
anyway.
So people are creating thosekinds of experiences.
(06:29):
But also I was excited a coupleof weeks ago when I was in
Finland met a young innovatorwho's developing augmented
reality glasses that are muchmore like the glasses that we
wear that can be assembledyourself for around $20.
That means any student oranyone who doesn't want to spend
(06:52):
a lot of money but wants toaccess the metaverse can get
these glasses at some point inthe future, assemble them and
have them available for thatexperience.
So I think we'll see lots ofexciting developments to make it
easier and more accessible forpeople.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
That's truly remarkable.
I mean, making technologyaccessible at an affordable
price could really greatlyexpand its reach and adoption,
and having it readily availablefor people to experiment with
and explore its possibilitiesreally could lead to some
astounding advancements.
And this seamlessly transitionsme to our next topic, the
(07:30):
relationship between Web3 andthe metaverse.
Are they intertwined?
Can one exist without the other?
Or is being part of Web3 aprerequisite for accessing the
metaverse, or are therealternative pathways?
Speaker 3 (07:50):
Either you can be in both and not the other.
So you can be in metaversewithout being in Web3, and
indeed, the big techs that aredeveloping metaverse products,
like Apple, google Meta and soforth they're not developing
Web3 metaverses, but they'redeveloping great immersive
experiences that people might bekeen on having.
(08:14):
And similarly, in Web3, you canuse Web3 not in an immersive way
, simply as a technology thathelps you create communities and
incentivize and exchange and soforth, but it doesn't have to
be immersive.
So what I like to believe isthat the future of the internet,
(08:39):
or some people are calling itthe spatial web, is the Web3
metaverse, where you're bringingtogether the affordances of
Web3, which is reallyunderpinned by blockchain, and
the key feature of that thatpeople need to get their heads
around is that it's adecentralized database that
allows people to exchange peerto peer, and a lot of people I
(09:04):
speak to say well, I can alreadysend money to my auntie.
Why do I want to use Web3?
And the answer to that is youwill be sending money through an
intermediary who will be takingsome of your money and it won't
get directly to your auntie inmost cases, whereas with Web3,
you can immediately transfer itto your auntie without an
(09:26):
intermediary and at virtually nocost.
And so it's that peer to peertransfer, not only of money but
of all forms of value that makeWeb3 so interesting.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
Yeah, it is really truly remarkable, and I'm really
eager to dive deeper into theprofound impact around
blockchain and on Web3.
It has been a personal passionof mine for a long time, but
before we delve in too deeply, Iwant to circle back briefly to
the metaverse.
One area that I think goesoften unnoticed is its
intersection with the automotiveindustry.
(10:00):
I recall that you gave akeynote speech last year at the
GITEC annual conference and onthis topic, I think it would be
very fascinating to explore thepotential and the future
landscape of automotiveintegration within the metaverse
.
Speaker 3 (10:17):
Yeah, well, that's a very exciting topic, to be
honest with you.
I was asked to put together apresentation on Web3 and the
automotive industry and I foundit one of the most fun things
that I'd ever put together,because there's so much going on
.
So, if you start, manycompanies are already having
(10:39):
virtual showrooms, for example,so you're able to go into a
virtual showroom and have a lookat the cars and so forth.
But they're also using it sothat you can actually, in a
gamified way, test drive a carin the metaverse.
So you can go into thisgame-like experience if you like
(11:00):
and it's often hyper realisticand take a car for a drive in a
very realistic way.
So it's a way of gettingconsumers involved and giving
them the experience of drivingthe car.
But some companies are alsousing it.
For example, in Asia inparticular, some of the car
companies are using avatarsalespeople because avatars are
(11:24):
probably more usual andacceptable in Asia and
particularly for the young.
So instead of using a humansalesperson, they're using kind
of attractive, in a cool sense,avatars to be able to draw young
Asians into having a look inthe virtual showroom at the cars
(11:44):
that are on sale.
They're also using it as a wayto get consumers involved in the
design of new vehicles, sothey're able to come into a
virtual collaboration space,give comments on the shape of
the car, the texture, thecolours and all sorts of things
like that.
So instead of doing endlessfocus groups, which is what they
would have done in the past,they're able to get people in to
(12:09):
actually have direct input.
You know, looking at a digitaltwin of the new model of the car
and digital twins are reallyimportant in many industries.
So a digital twin is a virtualrepresentation of a real object.
So in this case, they cancreate a digital twin of a
(12:29):
future prototype of a car andthey can test it, they can tweak
it, they can change the roof,the doors, make the engine
hotter or colder or whatever itis you do with engines before it
actually goes into production.
So it's not only in theautomotive industry.
It will be so in manyindustries, including the
aviation industry and includingin the healthcare industry,
(12:53):
doctors are using digital twinsto prepare for highly complex
organisations.
I was watching a video a weekago where incredibly complex
surgery to separate Siamesetwins had been practiced and
practiced, and practiced using adigital twin based on the
(13:13):
images of the way these twochildren were connected.
So sorry, I veered away fromthe automotive industry, but
it's super exciting.
But also, if you think aboutthings that people are
experimenting with now, if youre in a self-driving car, what
are you going to do?
Well, you don't need to drivethe car anymore, so therefore,
(13:34):
the car can become an immersivespace where you can do almost
anything while you re on the wayto wherever it is that you re
going.
So, in summary, there s lots ofopportunities and lots of
experimentation going on in theautomotive industry.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
Yeah, indeed it s fascinating.
In your discussions withautomotive leaders, what
challenges do you typically hearthat they have regarding the
adoption of such technology?
I m really curious to hearabout the experiences and the
hurdles they face in integratingthese type of innovative
solutions.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
Look, I think it s very variable, because the ones
that are actually trying to doit they tend to have whole
innovation teams that areworking on this they ve already
made the decision that this isthe way that they need to go.
There are others that aren'tready to get there yet, so they
re much harder to talk to, but Ithink the ones who ve realised
(14:32):
that something in this immersivefuture is going to be important
for their industry are reallyopen to ideas and moving along.
I mean, if you ask me what aresome of the challenges and there
are still challenges in termsof we talked about the access
with the goggles latency andinteroperability can be
(14:55):
challenges and, in addition,user acceptability can be
challenges.
So I think that s going to varyindustry by industry and age
group by age group, because, ifyou think about the Gen Z and
the Gen Alpha s coming up, theyre totally comfortable with
being digital, so they ll betotally happy to have these
(15:17):
immersive experiences in manysectors that they re interested
in participating in.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
Yeah, and it appears that automakers are gradually
starting to embrace more of anagile approach, aiming for user
experience tailored to thespecific desires of their
customers.
However, I think that thechallenge really lies in scaling
this type of personalisedapproach.
How do you really ensure thatreally widespread implementation
(15:46):
meets the diverse needs of theconsumer base?
Speaker 3 (15:50):
Well, I was impressed , I have to say, when I was
doing the research for thisspeech, about how many of the
automotive are already embracingthis and moving in terms of not
only experimentation butactually using it, so I think it
s actually one of theindustries that s more advanced.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
Do we observe this trend more predominantly amongst
automakers in regions like Asia, where there's more of a focus
on rapidly innovating anddelivering vehicles according to
customer demand, or is it moreprevalent among US based car
companies?
Where do we witness theforefront of innovation in this
regard?
Speaker 3 (16:32):
Well, look, I'm not an expert on the automotive
industry, so I don't want tosound like I am, but what I saw.
But I want to comment on Asia,because I think Asia is a very
big and important topic in termsof who's going to embrace these
kinds of technologies.
First, in automotive, what I sawwas the luxury brands in
(16:56):
particular, right across thespectrum, are all working at one
level with it.
So in terms of whether it's theWest or the East, I'm not
prepared to comment on that, butcertainly a lot of activity
there.
But in terms of embracingtechnology, I mean we saw anyway
during the pandemic in Asia,across a whole variety of
(17:19):
industries, absolutelyembracement of virtual
technologies and real comfortwith it.
We see in gaming, which is oneof the biggest industries in the
world, is also one of the sortof leading industries that's
taking men averse forward thatAsia has the largest numbers of
(17:39):
gamers and the fastest growth ingaming and the fastest growth
in mobile based gaming.
And so I think we're going tosee continuing and incredible
innovation in Asian countries,and we've already seen it in the
more advanced ones, like China,japan, korea and so forth.
(18:00):
But we've got to look at Indiaand Indonesia and Vietnam,
because they're all advancing apace and they don't seem to be
as stifled by legacy systemsthat some of our countries do.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
It seems like there's a gradual curve of adoption,
with some being trailblazers andothers who are very slow to
adopt.
So, just transitioning on thetopic of blockchain, which you
mentioned earlier, I want to getto get to your experiences with
it and how it's evolvedsignificantly in the last few
years, particularly the growingacceptance into mainstream
(18:36):
environments.
Now, initially it wasassociated with gaming.
Blockchain has really witnessedthe widespread adoption across
many enterprises over the lastfew years and, from your
perspective, how has thistransformation influenced the
way that we develop applicationsto really conduct business?
How has it emerged as asignificant disruptor in various
(18:56):
industries that we see today?
Speaker 3 (18:59):
I want to separate and this is important for the
audience because when you speakabout blockchain, most people
think you're talking aboutBitcoin and cryptocurrencies or
digital assets, and I want toset them to one side, because
that's a different conversation,because what you're talking
about is blockchain for industryand for social utility, and so
(19:20):
people need to understand thatthere are multiple different
kinds of tokens or digitalassets and they're not all
speculative cryptocurrencies.
So, in terms of industries,well, obviously, you know,
gaming is one with the Web3gaming that I personally believe
is going to move fast.
But in terms of otherindustries, where we're seeing
(19:44):
it in banking and finance,they're realizing, particularly
in the back office functions,with things like settlements and
remittances and all sorts offunctions like that, that banks
and financial services arerealizing that the technology
has got some value In terms ofsupply chains.
This is a significantindustrial use case because it
(20:06):
takes friction out of supplychains, it creates transparency
in supply chains and it's beingused across a whole range of
industries, you know, in termsof supply chains, and it's also
being used in healthcare forsecure data exchange, for
example.
But coming back to your pointabout widespread adoption, I
(20:28):
think there's two things to besaid about that.
The first one is from aconsumer point of view.
Widespread adoption will takeplace when it does something
useful for the consumer.
So if there's something that Iwant to achieve and I can do it
better, faster, cheaper, easierwith something that's built on a
blockchain, I'm probably goingto use that, and until that time
(20:51):
comes, the consumer adoption isgoing to be slow.
But the other thing that Ibelieve is that in the future,
blockchain will be theunderpinning infrastructure for
a lot of the technology that weuse.
We won't even know it's there,we won't talk about it, we won't
be saying has it got ablockchain, we'll just be using
it because it enables certainfunctions that are incredibly
(21:14):
helpful to many industries.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
How do we get to a point where we start to have
more transparency and trust withblockchain?
Speaker 3 (21:22):
Okay, that's a difficult question, because
whether that's a question about,does blockchain provide
transparency and trust?
And the answer to that is yes,but is it?
Do people believe that?
And the answer to that isprobably not everyone, and
they're suspicious of it.
And they're suspicious of itbecause of the amount of frauds
(21:47):
and scams and similar thingsthat have been perpetrated in
the whole crypto digital assetsarena.
And so immediately I have thisexperience a lot I say something
about blockchain and people go,oh, bitcoin, the dark web.
I mean they don't know.
But what they do know is it'sbad and it's not to be trusted
(22:07):
and it's used for nefariousactivities, which is partially
true.
But so is the US dollar.
It's not entirely true as atechnology.
It's been documented andthere's as much evidence as you
would like to see about itsability to bring trust and
transparency into processes andexchanges of information and
(22:33):
exchanges of value.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
Right, exactly, but there is a certain significant
amount of scrutiny, particularlyin the US, regarding blockchain
technology.
There's definitely someskepticism from the governmental
bodies around its implications.
It's becoming increasinglyevident how really blockchain it
is revolutionizing things likefinancial services, no doubt
(22:59):
about it.
But the essence lies in itsability to facilitate the
transactions among parties thatmay not inherently trust each
other, and they leverage that byusing this distributed ledger
technology.
But despite the misconceptionsabout blockchains being
perceived negatively, it doeshave practical applications and
(23:19):
we are seeing widespreadadoption across various
enterprises.
Speaker 3 (23:24):
Look, there's more than 400 banks are either using
or experimenting with it.
There is absolutely no doubtabout it.
Work's just being done by acolleague of mine and it's going
to be considered by theCommonwealth the British
Commonwealth of 54 countries, todevelop a common legal
(23:46):
framework for digital assets forCommonwealth countries.
I mean, this is real and it'sserious, and I think the
challenge and certainly in theUS the regulators are a little
bit schizophrenic about how theywant to deal with it.
But the other issue is it's notone thing, there's not one
regulator.
Whether it's a commodity orwhether it's a security, it's
(24:08):
going to be regulated in adifferent way, and this, of
course, will apply in otherhighly regulated sectors like
healthcare.
They're going to have to have alook at it in the context of
the regulations that exist inthat industry.
And so part of theschizophrenia, if you like, is
some of the bad things that havehappened on the financial side
(24:29):
of blockchain, and I think partof it is that the regulators are
just trying to catch up withwhat it is, what they should be
regulating, how to regulate itand how not to stifle it,
because it is an excitinginnovation.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
I mean, it appears that addressing regulations from
a regulatory body for emergingtechnologies follows a three
wave pattern.
So initially there's a lag aslegislative bodies like Congress
grapple with understanding andadapting to the new paradigms,
and this was really evidentduring the internet's inception,
(25:04):
where regulators really wererooted in an outdated telecom
type of mentality.
And then you see, the secondwave of that was around social
media and that ushered in a newset of challenges.
And so now we're now in themidst of the third wave, which
is really characterized by theemergence of technologies like
(25:25):
Metaverse, blockchain and AI.
There needs to be a pressingneed for transparency and trust
around this regulatory framework.
So the question really is myquestion is should govern
governance be left to thegovernment, or should the
private industry take the reins?
What are your thoughts onestablishing a governing body to
(25:47):
ensure ethical use of thesetechnologies in people's
everyday lives?
Speaker 3 (25:53):
Look, I think that's a that's a massive question, and
you know some of the elementsthat we have to think about
because you know, presumablyyou're sitting in the US and
thinking about the US government, but many of these technologies
travel beyond the sovereignstate, and so thinking about how
to regulate cross-borderecosystems that operate across
(26:17):
different borders is going to bean issue how to get people in
different parts of the world tobe able to agree.
I think there is no doubt thatthe system that's been in place
for global governance sinceWorld War II is not fit to be
able to regulate the internet,and we don't have any kind of
(26:38):
alternative.
And yet we have a world where wehave these big tech companies
who have economies larger thanmost countries, and yet they're
not in the formal governance ofanything or been elected by
anyone or anything else.
I think we're in a bit of aconundrum at the moment between
the old world and the new, andI'm not quite sure how some kind
(27:00):
of body-entity collaboration isgoing to emerge that's going to
enable the development ofwidely accepted policies and
standards and deal with some ofthe ethical issues that we have
with technology.
There are smaller groups allaround the world that are
working on it and someindividual governments and some
(27:22):
grouping of governments like theEU is very active, for example
are working on these matters,but there's not going to be one
answer.
I suspect that there's going tobe kind of geographical
groupings that all agree to kindof collaborate and have similar
rules.
But that still doesn't answerthe questions about how we call
(27:43):
the big techs to account.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, you raise a crucialpoint about the complexities of
global collaboration andregulation, and I think it's
clear that navigating theintersection of technology,
ethics and governance reallywill require an innovative
approach and perhaps some sortof regional agreement to address
the unique challenges that eacharea faces.
(28:07):
Now, as for holding big techcompanies accountable, look, I
mean, it's a multifaceted issueand that really demands careful
consideration and collectiveaction.
But if we look at how wenavigate the global landscape,
it really presents a set ofunique challenges, especially
when we consider theunprecedented level of
(28:27):
connectivity that we experience.
Every day we have individualsconnecting across the globe, and
that, basically, is basicallypredicting which governments
will embrace or resist certaintype of technologies as it
becomes uncertain.
So, as an active member of theWorld Metaverse Council, I'm
really curious to learn moreabout the initiatives and the
(28:51):
advocacy efforts undertaken bythe council that promote the
adoption and acceptance of themetaverse.
So could you provide someinsights into the council's role
and how it contributes topositive change in this very
dynamic space?
Speaker 3 (29:07):
Well look, the World Metaverse Council basically
started, as did a few othergroups, in a giant vacuum where
we realised that all of thesetechnologies were developing
incredibly fast and there wasn'tanywhere to go to be able to
talk about standards andpolicies and ethics and keeping
(29:29):
an open metaverse and makingsure that people don't come to
harm, and so forth.
So effectively, we formedaround the idea of providing I
like to call it a distributedthink tank as much as anything,
because in this world there's noone place.
You can't go to Stanford andget all the information you need
about the metaverse.
It's not like that anymore.
There's hundreds of scientistsand companies all around the
(29:53):
world at different levels,building all sorts of
innovations around metaverse andAI and so forth.
So you need to find a placewhere you can gather this kind
of intellectual horsepower fromall around the world to help
understand what's going on andto share about what are the
impacts of that.
(30:13):
So we have working groups onregulation, for example,
healthcare standards, openmetaverse, different groups like
that that are really interested, people from all around the
world who wanted to find a forumto be able to come and speak,
to be able to develop ideas, toactually further develop what
(30:36):
they were working on by findingcollaborators from elsewhere in
the world, and also to producesome thought pieces.
For example, ethics is a biginterest of mine around just
what are the ethical concernsrelated to the metaverse, and we
make contributions, for example, to the International
Telecommunications Unit, who aretrying to create global
(30:58):
standards for the metaverse.
So it's really a place wherepeople can come.
It's not led by government.
It's an informal body ofinterested people from about 150
countries around the world whoare all working on different
aspects of this.
So it's actually a wonderfulcommunity, but that's what it is
(31:20):
.
It's a distributed network ofpeople who are working on this.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
That's incredibly.
That's very powerful.
I mean, the insights into thecollaborative efforts within the
Metaverse Council really helpshed light on this diverse
perspective that's reallydriving innovation and
technology.
And again, I agree that theemphasis on open dialogue and
ethical consideration reallyunderscores that importance of
global collaboration and shapingthe future of the metaverse and
(31:47):
I think that that approachreally sets a promising type of
precedent for addressing complexchallenges and it really
fosters responsible developmentin this digital landscape.
It's very, very fascinating.
Speaker 3 (32:00):
Well, the focus that I have for this year is around
education using immersivetechnologies, because and I'm
working with collaborators inTurkey and Bulgaria and the US
on this because, effectively, Ibelieve that we're moving into
this rapidly changingskills-based economy, where
(32:21):
people are going to have to bere-skilled quite regularly in
order to be able to get jobs andkeep up to date with what's
going on.
I don't believe that thetraditional education system is
going to be able to respondquickly enough and that we are
going to be able to benefit fromthe immersive technologies and
(32:44):
the ability to be able to usedata to actually analyse whether
people are developing theseskills appropriately and so
forth, to produce highly, highlyfocused, data-driven, curated,
skills-based training coursesusing immersive reality.
So that's the project that I'mreally focusing on during this
(33:07):
year.
Speaker 2 (33:08):
Exactly, education and learning and the development
are really critical componentsof our rapidly evolving
technical landscape.
The pace of innovation reallyfar exceeds what traditional
textbooks and educationalinstitutions can keep up with,
and many schools lack resourcesto really teach these type of
(33:28):
emerging technologies likeartificial intelligence and like
blockchain, and oftenindividuals are going to find
themselves on a journey ofself-discovery and they're going
to have to learn, they're goingto have to experiment and
they're going to have to immersethemselves in these
technologies independently tostay relevant in today's digital
age.
It's really going to befascinating to see.
Speaker 3 (33:50):
Well, that's what I believe.
The other one I didn't want tofail to mention was, again
working with other collaboratorsaround the world.
We're developing a women indeep tech network, which in time
, will become an accelerator anda fund, and we're really
excited about finding the womenall around the world who are
(34:10):
working on scientific discoveryaround deep tech and bringing
them together and helping gettheir discoveries out and funded
and scaled.
So that's the other thing thatI'm working on.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
Incredible.
Dr Jane, I want to express mysincere gratitude for joining us
today and sharing yourinvaluable insights on
blockchain technology and themetaverse, and your experience
has truly enriched ourconversation.
I hope we can continue thedialogue in the future and have
you back on the podcast to talkmore about the learning aspect
and more about the women intechnology, and thank you again
(34:44):
for your time and expertise.
And again I want to express mydeepest gratitude for joining us
today on Tech Travels.
Speaker 3 (34:50):
Thank you, it's been such a pleasure, and thank you
everyone for listening.
Speaker 2 (34:54):
Thank you everyone for joining us on today's show.
If you liked this episode,please take a moment to rate the
show and be sure to subscribeto the channel.
If you would like to benotified when new shows are
posted and if you want to sharethis show with your friends,
please share on your preferredsocial media platform.
I would love your help to bringawareness to this channel Until
next time as we venture intothe future and into the realms
(35:16):
of technology.
Until then, stay curious, stayinformed and happy travels.
Speaker 1 (35:22):
Thanks so much for listening to the Tech Travels
podcast with Steve Woodard.
Please tune in next time and besure to follow us and subscribe
on the Apple podcast andSpotify platforms.
We'll see you next time.
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