November 3, 2024 • 12 mins
In 2022, Greens Senator Mehreen Faruqi criticised the monarchy in a social media post following Queen Elizabeth II’s death. Fellow Senator Hanson replied with what the Federal Court has now found was an “angry personal attack” that carried racist meaning. On today's podcast, we break down what the initial comments were, how the court case has evolved, and what this verdict means.
Hosts: Zara Seidler and Sam Koslowski
Producer: Orla Maher
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Already and this is this is the daily This is
the Daily OS.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Oh, now it makes sense.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Good morning and welcome to the Daily OS. It's Monday,
the fourth of November.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
I'm Zara, I'm Sam.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Late last week, One Nation Senator Pauline Hanson lost a
hate speech case brought against her by Green Senator Marine
Ferruki that was over a social media post from twenty
twenty two. The post was in response to Senator Ferruki's
criticism of the monarchy in light of Queen Elizabeth the
Second's death.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
Today's ruling tells us they're telling someone to go back
to where they came from. Is a strong form of racism.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
In today's deep dive, we'll explain the case and what
the judgment means more broadly. The first save what's making headlines.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Over the weekend, the federal Labor government announced plans to
take twenty percent of all student debts. It also plans
to increase the minimum salary and individual needs to earn
before they start making repayments to their loan. It's all
part of a suite of proposed reforms to the student
debt system that the government says it will introduce if
it's elected for a second term. Announcing the proposal, Prime
(01:18):
Minister Anthony Abernezi said, we will make it easier for
young Australians to save in the future and we are
going to make the system better and fairer as well.
The next federal election is due to be held by
May next year.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
Tasmanian art and music festival Dark Mofo will return in
full next year after a strip back program this past June.
The winter festival, which features live music, food and art installations,
attracts thousands of visitors to Hobart during the off season.
Last year, organizers said they needed to consider changing conditions
and rising costs in order to reset the festival for
(01:53):
the future. Next year's festival will run from the fifth
of June till the fifteenth, with an extra day on
the winter Solstice twenty first of June for the annual
nude Swim in the River Derwent.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Both Donald Trump and Kamala Harris have held last minute
rallies in North Carolina. As the US presidential election enters
its last forty eight hours. Both candidates will be focused
on the seven battleground states, with rallies planned by both
in North Carolina Pennsylvania and Georgia. More than seventy five
million Americans have already cast their ballots, with most posters
(02:27):
reporting the race is too close to call. At the
North Carolina rally yesterday, Donald Trump said election day would
be quote liberation Day for his supporters and that America
is quote currently occupied by his opponents. Meanwhile, Kamala Harris
advocated for quote a new generation of leadership, defending the
release of week job figures attributed by the Biden Whitehouse
(02:48):
to the recent hurricanes and wildscale strike activity.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
And today's good news. Biomedical engineers from the University of
Melbourne have invented a biopres that can replicate parts of
the human body like soft tissue, cartilage and bone. This
three D printing development has the potential to reduce the
amount of animal testing in drug development. Could also support
cancer research and treatment by allowing researchers to test new
(03:15):
therapies on printed organs, not on people. Associate Professor David
Collins said the technology can accurately represent human tissue, which
has been a downfall on previous buyer printers. PhD student
Calm Vidler said this invention creates a crucial bridge between
lab research and clinical applications. We'll be back with the
deep dive after this short break late last week. Senator
(03:40):
Pauline Hanson, I'm sure most of our audience is aware
of who she is. She's the leader of One Nation
and as sitting senator in Federal Parliament, she lost a
hate speech case that was brought against her by Green
Senator Marine Ferruci over a social media post from twenty
twenty two. The Quarters now ordered Pauline Hanson to pay
for Ruki legal costs and take down that post.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
Let's go all the way back, Zara to that initial
social media post. What was it about and why did
it create this two and a half year legal dispute.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
Yes. So. In a social media post following the death
of Queen Elizabeth, which was the course in September of
twenty twenty two, Marine Feruki wrote, and I'll just read
it out here, condolences to those who mourn the queen.
I cannot mourn the leader of a racist empire built
on stolen lives, land and wealth of colonized peoples. She
called for a treaty with First Nations people, justice and
(04:33):
reparations for British colonies. In response, then Pauline Hansen told Faruiki,
among other things, to piss off back to Pakistan. And
it's that comment that Marine Ferruki said was hate speech
and is the reason that this case existed in the
first place.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
So Pauline Hanson replies to this comment on social media
with what Marine Ferruki has felt is hate speech. What
does Marine Ferruki do with that comment?
Speaker 1 (04:58):
So shortly after the tweets were posted, Fariki moved what's
called the censure motion in the Senate, and that is
just a formal statement of disapproval of a federal politicians'
actions and policies. Now, you've got to remember, both of
these key figures in the story both sit together in
the Senate and on the crossbench because they both come
(05:18):
from minor parties, so they are colleagues. But this obviously
happened in the online world, not in physical form.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
And when you get censured in the Senate, you don't
have to lose your position, you know. There it's just
the kind of slap on the risk.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
Exactly, and there are no legal consequences. It essentially doesn't
hold a lot of weight. But Fariki urged her fellow
senators to condemn Hanson's what she called divisive, anti migrant
and racist statement, which she said unleashed an avalanche of hate. Instead,
Labor and Coalition senators passed the general Motion condemning racism
and discrimination in all its forms. It was from there
(05:54):
that Fariki moved to logic complaint with the Australian Human
Rights Commission. But then paul Hanson refused to participate in
an investigation there, and so Marine Ferruchi at that point
turned to legal action and turned to legal avenues where
other ones had failed. The grounds for the legal action
that Fruki brought was that she said that Pauline Hanson
(06:15):
engaged in unlawful, offensive behavior that was in breach of
the racial discrimination laws that we have in this country.
She also provided an expert analysis of social media user's
response to Hanson's post, and that really interesting. Yeah, I mean,
like that was at the heart of it. It wasn't
just the statement itself, but the fallout and what it
incited that was really interrogated and investigated as part of
(06:36):
the case.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
And so that was the case that was heard earlier
this year. Marine Ferruchi and her legal representatives got up
and said this was in breach of the Racial Discrimination
YEP legal framework. What did Hanson kind of lean into
in the case.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
So, Pauline Hansen argued she was making fair comment on
a matter of public interest. So there she's talking about
the monarchy of First Nations Treaty and Raelian Republican attitudes,
so that is to leave the monarchy. She also tried
to argue that her post was protected by an implied
but not an expressly stated constitutional right of political communication.
(07:13):
It's a bit jagony, but essentially she was relying there
on this idea of free speech. And lastly, Hanson's lawyers
also argued that she wasn't aware that Marine Ferruki was
Muslim when she made the comments that she made.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
And so part of that last argument is Hanson trying
to tell the court that there was an intense behind that.
And a big part of the Racial Discrimination Act is
you intend to cause harm exactly. So that was what
Hanson argued. And the reason you and I are talking
about it today is because the judge handed a decision
down on Friday. What did they find?
Speaker 1 (07:44):
So Justice Angus Stewart rejected all of Pauline Hanson's arguments
and concluded that her post was racist, anti immigrant, and
anti Muslim, and ultimately ruled that she had racially vilified
Marine Ferruki. He noted Hanson's tendency to make quote racist
and his homophobic comments in the past. He said that
(08:06):
the post was reasonably likely, and that's the thresholds that
we're talking about, to have been profoundly and seriously offensive, insulting,
humiliating and intimidating to the reasonable targeted person in the
position of Senator Faruki, as well as to the people
of color who are migrants to Australia or are Australians
of relatively recent migrant heritage, and Muslims who are people
(08:28):
of color in Australia. So very broad there exactly, and
the judge there is showing the flow on effects of
what he deemed hate speech. He also said that Hanson's
position as a senator was relevant, so the power that
she has as a senator was relevant because it encourage
others online with less power and status to publish the
same sort of messages or worse.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
What an interesting reasoning from the judge there that you know,
this is not just somebody else tweeting, This is somebody
in the position of power.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
Well, it goes to what we were talking about before,
of Marine Fuki bringing up social media specialists who could
look at what one person's tweet had unleashed online and
the power that that one person and the influence that
one person who is a senator in Australian Parliament. What
that leads to.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
It's an interesting one as well with senators because there's
parliamentary privilege, so they can kind of say what they
want inside the chamber.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
But that absolutely doesn't stand online.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
Really interesting. So the judge found in Marine Ferruki's favor.
What was her reaction after the decision was handed down.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
Well, outside court, Marine Ferruki said that the ruling was
historic and groundbreaking. She said, today's judgment is a win
for every person who has been told to go back
to where they came from. Here's a bit more about
what she said.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
And it is also an affirmation for migrants that people
of color do not have to be grateful or to
keep quiet. And I will be speaking out more loudly
and more strongly than ever before.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
Ferruki, also here talking directly about Pauline Hanson, said it's
time the senator faced consequences for the racism. She's been
piling on Muslims, people of color, and First Nations people
for more than thirty years.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
It's really important to mention that this is not now
moving on to a sentencing where Pauline Hanson goes to
jail for any of this. What does happen next?
Speaker 1 (10:18):
So the court's ordered, as I said at the top,
Hanson to pay for Ruki's legal fees and to remove
the original post. So she has seven days I understand,
to delete that original post. Farruki had initially requested Hanson
pay a sum of money to charity, but the judge
didn't include that in his final order. Hanson has confirmed
(10:39):
that she will appeal the decision, and she said that
the decision was deeply disappointing. She claims that section eighteen
C of the Racial Discrimination Act, which is what this
whole case hinges on, is that that impinges on freedom
of political expression. So we can get a sense of
what any appeal lodged by Pauline Hanson will look like
in future.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
And because of how common, complex and politically loaded this
conversation would be, these appeals could take a long time,
keep climbing up the chain all the way to the
High Court, Zara, thank you so much for that brief
on this case, and thank you for joining us on
the Daily ODS this morning. A big, big week of
news ahead for all of us. The US Selection is
taking place on Wednesday, Australia time, and TDA will be
(11:20):
here to take you through what you need to know
on the major decisions being made by the US public.
If you want to keep track of everything, make sure
you're following us on Instagram and signed up to our
newsletter as well. We'll speak to you again tomorrow morning.
Until then, have a good day.
Speaker 3 (11:37):
My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda
Bunjelung Kalkotin woman from Gadigol Country. The Daily os acknowledges
that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the
Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres
Strait Island and nations. We pay our respects to the
first peoples of these countries, both past and present.
Already and this is this is the daily This is
the Daily OS.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Oh, now it makes sense.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Good morning and welcome to the Daily OS. It's Monday,
the fourth of November.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
I'm Zara, I'm Sam.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Late last week, One Nation Senator Pauline Hanson lost a
hate speech case brought against her by Green Senator Marine
Ferruki that was over a social media post from twenty
twenty two. The post was in response to Senator Ferruki's
criticism of the monarchy in light of Queen Elizabeth the
Second's death.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
Today's ruling tells us they're telling someone to go back
to where they came from. Is a strong form of racism.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
In today's deep dive, we'll explain the case and what
the judgment means more broadly. The first save what's making headlines.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Over the weekend, the federal Labor government announced plans to
take twenty percent of all student debts. It also plans
to increase the minimum salary and individual needs to earn
before they start making repayments to their loan. It's all
part of a suite of proposed reforms to the student
debt system that the government says it will introduce if
it's elected for a second term. Announcing the proposal, Prime
(01:18):
Minister Anthony Abernezi said, we will make it easier for
young Australians to save in the future and we are
going to make the system better and fairer as well.
The next federal election is due to be held by
May next year.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
Tasmanian art and music festival Dark Mofo will return in
full next year after a strip back program this past June.
The winter festival, which features live music, food and art installations,
attracts thousands of visitors to Hobart during the off season.
Last year, organizers said they needed to consider changing conditions
and rising costs in order to reset the festival for
(01:53):
the future. Next year's festival will run from the fifth
of June till the fifteenth, with an extra day on
the winter Solstice twenty first of June for the annual
nude Swim in the River Derwent.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Both Donald Trump and Kamala Harris have held last minute
rallies in North Carolina. As the US presidential election enters
its last forty eight hours. Both candidates will be focused
on the seven battleground states, with rallies planned by both
in North Carolina Pennsylvania and Georgia. More than seventy five
million Americans have already cast their ballots, with most posters
(02:27):
reporting the race is too close to call. At the
North Carolina rally yesterday, Donald Trump said election day would
be quote liberation Day for his supporters and that America
is quote currently occupied by his opponents. Meanwhile, Kamala Harris
advocated for quote a new generation of leadership, defending the
release of week job figures attributed by the Biden Whitehouse
(02:48):
to the recent hurricanes and wildscale strike activity.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
And today's good news. Biomedical engineers from the University of
Melbourne have invented a biopres that can replicate parts of
the human body like soft tissue, cartilage and bone. This
three D printing development has the potential to reduce the
amount of animal testing in drug development. Could also support
cancer research and treatment by allowing researchers to test new
(03:15):
therapies on printed organs, not on people. Associate Professor David
Collins said the technology can accurately represent human tissue, which
has been a downfall on previous buyer printers. PhD student
Calm Vidler said this invention creates a crucial bridge between
lab research and clinical applications. We'll be back with the
deep dive after this short break late last week. Senator
(03:40):
Pauline Hanson, I'm sure most of our audience is aware
of who she is. She's the leader of One Nation
and as sitting senator in Federal Parliament, she lost a
hate speech case that was brought against her by Green
Senator Marine Ferruci over a social media post from twenty
twenty two. The Quarters now ordered Pauline Hanson to pay
for Ruki legal costs and take down that post.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
Let's go all the way back, Zara to that initial
social media post. What was it about and why did
it create this two and a half year legal dispute.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
Yes. So. In a social media post following the death
of Queen Elizabeth, which was the course in September of
twenty twenty two, Marine Feruki wrote, and I'll just read
it out here, condolences to those who mourn the queen.
I cannot mourn the leader of a racist empire built
on stolen lives, land and wealth of colonized peoples. She
called for a treaty with First Nations people, justice and
(04:33):
reparations for British colonies. In response, then Pauline Hansen told Faruiki,
among other things, to piss off back to Pakistan. And
it's that comment that Marine Ferruki said was hate speech
and is the reason that this case existed in the
first place.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
So Pauline Hanson replies to this comment on social media
with what Marine Ferruki has felt is hate speech. What
does Marine Ferruki do with that comment?
Speaker 1 (04:58):
So shortly after the tweets were posted, Fariki moved what's
called the censure motion in the Senate, and that is
just a formal statement of disapproval of a federal politicians'
actions and policies. Now, you've got to remember, both of
these key figures in the story both sit together in
the Senate and on the crossbench because they both come
(05:18):
from minor parties, so they are colleagues. But this obviously
happened in the online world, not in physical form.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
And when you get censured in the Senate, you don't
have to lose your position, you know. There it's just
the kind of slap on the risk.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
Exactly, and there are no legal consequences. It essentially doesn't
hold a lot of weight. But Fariki urged her fellow
senators to condemn Hanson's what she called divisive, anti migrant
and racist statement, which she said unleashed an avalanche of hate. Instead,
Labor and Coalition senators passed the general Motion condemning racism
and discrimination in all its forms. It was from there
(05:54):
that Fariki moved to logic complaint with the Australian Human
Rights Commission. But then paul Hanson refused to participate in
an investigation there, and so Marine Ferruchi at that point
turned to legal action and turned to legal avenues where
other ones had failed. The grounds for the legal action
that Fruki brought was that she said that Pauline Hanson
(06:15):
engaged in unlawful, offensive behavior that was in breach of
the racial discrimination laws that we have in this country.
She also provided an expert analysis of social media user's
response to Hanson's post, and that really interesting. Yeah, I mean,
like that was at the heart of it. It wasn't
just the statement itself, but the fallout and what it
incited that was really interrogated and investigated as part of
(06:36):
the case.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
And so that was the case that was heard earlier
this year. Marine Ferruchi and her legal representatives got up
and said this was in breach of the Racial Discrimination
YEP legal framework. What did Hanson kind of lean into
in the case.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
So, Pauline Hansen argued she was making fair comment on
a matter of public interest. So there she's talking about
the monarchy of First Nations Treaty and Raelian Republican attitudes,
so that is to leave the monarchy. She also tried
to argue that her post was protected by an implied
but not an expressly stated constitutional right of political communication.
(07:13):
It's a bit jagony, but essentially she was relying there
on this idea of free speech. And lastly, Hanson's lawyers
also argued that she wasn't aware that Marine Ferruki was
Muslim when she made the comments that she made.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
And so part of that last argument is Hanson trying
to tell the court that there was an intense behind that.
And a big part of the Racial Discrimination Act is
you intend to cause harm exactly. So that was what
Hanson argued. And the reason you and I are talking
about it today is because the judge handed a decision
down on Friday. What did they find?
Speaker 1 (07:44):
So Justice Angus Stewart rejected all of Pauline Hanson's arguments
and concluded that her post was racist, anti immigrant, and
anti Muslim, and ultimately ruled that she had racially vilified
Marine Ferruki. He noted Hanson's tendency to make quote racist
and his homophobic comments in the past. He said that
(08:06):
the post was reasonably likely, and that's the thresholds that
we're talking about, to have been profoundly and seriously offensive, insulting,
humiliating and intimidating to the reasonable targeted person in the
position of Senator Faruki, as well as to the people
of color who are migrants to Australia or are Australians
of relatively recent migrant heritage, and Muslims who are people
(08:28):
of color in Australia. So very broad there exactly, and
the judge there is showing the flow on effects of
what he deemed hate speech. He also said that Hanson's
position as a senator was relevant, so the power that
she has as a senator was relevant because it encourage
others online with less power and status to publish the
same sort of messages or worse.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
What an interesting reasoning from the judge there that you know,
this is not just somebody else tweeting, This is somebody
in the position of power.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
Well, it goes to what we were talking about before,
of Marine Fuki bringing up social media specialists who could
look at what one person's tweet had unleashed online and
the power that that one person and the influence that
one person who is a senator in Australian Parliament. What
that leads to.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
It's an interesting one as well with senators because there's
parliamentary privilege, so they can kind of say what they
want inside the chamber.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
But that absolutely doesn't stand online.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
Really interesting. So the judge found in Marine Ferruki's favor.
What was her reaction after the decision was handed down.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
Well, outside court, Marine Ferruki said that the ruling was
historic and groundbreaking. She said, today's judgment is a win
for every person who has been told to go back
to where they came from. Here's a bit more about
what she said.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
And it is also an affirmation for migrants that people
of color do not have to be grateful or to
keep quiet. And I will be speaking out more loudly
and more strongly than ever before.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
Ferruki, also here talking directly about Pauline Hanson, said it's
time the senator faced consequences for the racism. She's been
piling on Muslims, people of color, and First Nations people
for more than thirty years.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
It's really important to mention that this is not now
moving on to a sentencing where Pauline Hanson goes to
jail for any of this. What does happen next?
Speaker 1 (10:18):
So the court's ordered, as I said at the top,
Hanson to pay for Ruki's legal fees and to remove
the original post. So she has seven days I understand,
to delete that original post. Farruki had initially requested Hanson
pay a sum of money to charity, but the judge
didn't include that in his final order. Hanson has confirmed
(10:39):
that she will appeal the decision, and she said that
the decision was deeply disappointing. She claims that section eighteen
C of the Racial Discrimination Act, which is what this
whole case hinges on, is that that impinges on freedom
of political expression. So we can get a sense of
what any appeal lodged by Pauline Hanson will look like
in future.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
And because of how common, complex and politically loaded this
conversation would be, these appeals could take a long time,
keep climbing up the chain all the way to the
High Court, Zara, thank you so much for that brief
on this case, and thank you for joining us on
the Daily ODS this morning. A big, big week of
news ahead for all of us. The US Selection is
taking place on Wednesday, Australia time, and TDA will be
(11:20):
here to take you through what you need to know
on the major decisions being made by the US public.
If you want to keep track of everything, make sure
you're following us on Instagram and signed up to our
newsletter as well. We'll speak to you again tomorrow morning.
Until then, have a good day.
Speaker 3 (11:37):
My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda
Bunjelung Kalkotin woman from Gadigol Country. The Daily os acknowledges
that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the
Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres
Strait Island and nations. We pay our respects to the
first peoples of these countries, both past and present.
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