December 27, 2023 • 34 mins
Andee Martineau and I continue our conversation this week about people pleasing and parenting. Tolerating failures and disappointments with your children can be challenging but it is possible to deal with. The need to fix, save, and/or rescue can be consuming. As a parent, you have to be true to yourself and respect yourself first while also respecting and loving others. Stopping the patterns and the cycles of people pleasing is possible with awareness.
Find Andee here:
https://connectmethodparenting.com/
https://www.instagram.com/andeemartineau/
https://www.facebook.com/connectmethod
Find Sara here:
https://sarafisk.coach
https://www.instagram.com/sarafiskcoach/
https://www.facebook.com/SaraFiskCoaching/
https://www.youtube.com/@sarafiskcoaching1333
https://www.tiktok.com/@sarafiskcoach
What happens inside the free Stop People Pleasing Facebook Community? Our goal is to provide help and guidance on your journey to eliminate people pleasing and perfectionism from your life. We heal best in a safe community where we can grow and learn together and celebrate and encourage each other. This group is for posting questions about or experiences with material learned in The Ex-Good Girl podcast, Sara Fisk Coaching social media posts or the free webinars and trainings provided by Sara Fisk Coaching. See you inside!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
You are listening to the x GoodGirl podcast episode forty
seven.
Right before we startedrecording, Sarah was talking
about how she has some things toadd to the list that we started
with last time.
So I'm so excited to hear yourlist.
And should we start there?
Yeah.
And I just see what I love aboutyour list is it's like, how do
(00:20):
people pleasers get created?
Mhmm.
And then my list is more like,Once the people pleasing dynamic
has already existed and you feelstuck in it, how does it show
up?
How would you know, right, thatyou are stuck in people pleasing
One of your children.
And then we can talk aboutstrategies for getting out
because I think you and I bothagree that What we like is
(00:43):
useful information.
Yes.
And I wanna make sure thatpeople leave today with some
some strategies to to begin tounravel it because I think
people pleasing, it is at theheart of our most complex Human
needs.
Mhmm.
Being wanted, belonging, havingcommunity, love, friendship,
(01:06):
Knowing that we have a place inthe world, and so no wonder that
it can be tricky to unravel in away that still feels Like, we
get to keep the love that wewant intact because so many of
us, people please, to be loved.
And I think that's really at theheart of what is happening in
some of these parent childrelationships.
(01:29):
Yeah.
I would agree.
Yeah.
I'm excited to hear your list.
And I will say even though itmight not seem like what we've
talked about so far has beenhelpful, awareness is powerful.
Having somebody call out when Iheard the word resentful
accommodation.
All of the sudden, bing bingbing bing bing, I had this
awareness of what I was doing,and then I could shift.
So even though it might feellike we've talked a lot about
(01:50):
the problems or how it manifestsin your life, those are really
important because without theawareness, you're not gonna
start on being able to unravelit.
Yeah.
Right.
And we'll say it again.
Like, if you're seeing some ofthese behaviors with you and
your children, Beating yourselfup about it is a a normal human
reaction, but the least helpful.
(02:11):
Actually, the the not helpfulReaction.
And so to acknowledge, like,okay.
This is happening.
What can we do about it?
We're gonna get there, so staywith us.
So As I was thinking about, youknow, the list of the things
that I see my clients doing withtheir children, It's all about
not being able to tolerate theirchildren's negative emotions or
(02:36):
negative experiences likefailure or disappointment.
There's probably, you know, ahundred different variations on
that same inability to tolerate,but, like, I can't Let my child
get a bad grade.
So when they call me and tell methat they left their homework, I
drop what I'm doing or Irearrange my day so that I can
(02:56):
take their assignment to schoolso that they don't experience
any negative consequences.
Mhmm.
Or My child is used to gettingtheir nails done.
And so when they go off tocollege and they're now working
a A job at Baskin Robbins andnot making enough money to get
their nails done.
(03:17):
I feel obligated to send themmoney because I don't want them
to be disappointed.
That's so good.
Yeah.
I think everything's a mirror.
So it's like, I don't want themto be disappointed.
I don't wanna be disappointed.
I don't want them to failbecause that means I fail.
Like, There's this mirror, Ithink, happening always.
Because if we're comfortablewith ourselves being
(03:37):
disappointed, then we're gonnabe fine if our kids are
disappointed.
Yeah.
There's this need to fix, tojump in, to fix, to save, to
rescue, to make sure thatnegative or unwanted
consequences don't happen.
And for me personally, I have areally interesting reaction To
(03:59):
when my kids have, like,something going wrong, sometimes
I get angry.
I get angry.
Yeah.
It's so interesting Because it'slike, oh my gosh, you guys.
We just got everything workedout.
Like, you called last week, andwe Fixed all those things, and
now you're calling again.
And if my kids are listening,right, this is not about you at
(04:21):
all.
And, of course, I want you tocall me and tell me.
But it is I think for some ofus, we cover up our fear with
anger or our fear makes usAngry.
Right?
There's this relationship that Ihaven't quite totally unraveled,
but I think anger or irritationor annoyance that something is
(04:41):
going wrong again.
Like, gosh.
Why can't you just keep ittogether?
Why can't you just and it's notat all about The workings of
their human experience becausethat's what being human is.
Things fall apart then come backtogether and fall apart then
come back together.
But I think what it is for me ismy I just want it to be fine for
(05:03):
them.
I just want smooth sailing.
And when it's not, My fear ishard for me to feel, and so I
get angry instead.
Anger for me just feels moreproductive, but at the heart of
it is taught Still, this need tofix so that if they're fine,
then I can be fine.
If it's smooth sailing for them,Then it's smooth sailing for me.
(05:27):
And so their disruption becomesmy disruption.
And that's the codependent pieceof people pleasing where I'm not
fine unless they're fine.
I'm not able to experiencesmooth sailing unless they're
experiencing smooth sailing.
And so if that is Somethingthat, you know, tugs at you.
(05:50):
If you're listening, that istotally it's how we are taught
to be in relationship,especially as parents.
Right.
We're taught that our childrenare a reflection of us, that if
we love them, we will do certainthings for them, but it just
leads to all kinds of fixing andrescuing and taking
responsibility for their lives,and it shows up in things like
(06:13):
Continuing to pay for things forthem when they are out of the
house, and I don't think there'sa certain magical age at which
they should be paying forcertain things or not.
But I do know that if you, asthe listener, stop and think
about, you know, if you haveadult children, Maybe you are
paying for some things that youwish you weren't, but you don't
(06:34):
want to tell your child thatbecause you think that it will
Create some dynamic for themthat you will not like, or you
are tolerating behaviors in whenthey come back to your home.
I see this a lot with parentsand adult children that they
don't feel like they can setboundaries around behavior,
around time, around differentactivities that like, one of,
(06:59):
you know, my clients had a sonwho really enjoyed smoking pot.
And she didn't have a lot of tosay over that in his adult life,
but he would do it in her home.
And she didn't feel like shecould say to him, like, hey.
I don't want that in my homeBecause it would somehow
threaten the relationship, andhe wouldn't wanna come home
anymore.
And so putting up with behaviorsor things that You don't want to
(07:23):
be a part of your life becomesreally hard when it's connected
to will they still love me?
Will they still want to comehome?
That is so good because we thinkwhen you said that oh, this is
so good.
We we think that this is gonnathreaten the relationship if I
tell my son, hey.
You can't smoke pot at home.
But if you're back to one of myfavorite work terms, if you're
(07:45):
resentfully accommodating thebehavior, The relationship is
being threatened.
Like, every time you'reresentfully accommodating, he
feels your resentment.
He feels your anger, annoyance,however it comes out for you.
Yeah.
That is damaging yourrelationship.
Worse Yeah.
Than if you would have theability to handle the discomfort
because it's gonna be veryuncomfortable and the fear to
(08:06):
have the conversation, but it'sit's uncomfortable either way.
We think it's gonna be betterfor the relationship.
Fine.
I'll just let him smoke pot, butwe're not okay with it or
whatever the behavior is thatwe're not okay with.
Yeah.
It's worse.
And I wanna bring that up justbecause it's a thought error
that is going to help therelationship.
It's not true.
(08:26):
It's not accurate.
And maybe if you can start tofind how it's actually damaging
the thing you're trying toprotect, It'll give you the
confidence or courage to havethe conversation, which probably
will create a betterrelationship.
It might be Rocky for a bit.
He might have his feelings hurtor might be angry or whatever.
But at least you can respect theperson you're being, and he can
(08:47):
respect that you are beinghonest.
They know that the ability ahuman has to map another human
is insane.
We don't fully probably evenunderstand how it works, but we
know when someone's not happywith us.
So unless you either your twochoices are have the
conversation honestly or stopcaring.
Like, don't make it somethingthat you want.
Like Yeah.
(09:07):
I'm just gonna be okay with thepot.
Can you get there?
Okay.
Great.
Fabulous.
You can't get there?
Well, then be honest about it.
I don't know if you have anythoughts about it.
But Well, you know, this reallyGets for me, ties back to the
way we, as humans who aresocialized as females in a
patriarchal world, are taught tobe the ones to adjust.
We are taught to be the ones whocompromise.
(09:30):
We are taught to be the ones whopretend that everything is fine.
And so, Of course, this is ahard thing.
Right?
We have decades and decades ofprogramming about we should be
the ones to be kind, to be nice,to accommodate, and that's the
breeding ground for thisresentful accommodation that
turns out to be just, like yousaid, damaging the relationship
(09:54):
anyway.
We think that if I allow, thenthey'll love me.
They'll wanna come home.
They'll wanna spend time withme, but I think you hit it on
the head when you said that theway as humans that we map one
another.
It's just we're never gonna getaway with it long term.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I hear so many parents say, no.
I was so calm on the outside.
You don't understand.
(10:14):
I didn't raise my voice.
And I'm thinking, well, that isa good stop.
That's a totally good stop fromyelling.
However, if inside you wereraging, they knew that.
Yeah.
You know?
That's why this still was amismatch because they'll they'll
not be sure.
Like, why weren't the kidsresponding differently?
Well, because they see throughit.
They map it.
Yeah.
And I don't know what you thinkabout this term, but I like the
(10:36):
term enlightened selfishness.
Oh, define it.
Yeah.
Let me hear it.
Well, it's like self firstness.
Like, I have to be true tomyself.
It's not something we've beentaught.
Selfishness is always aretypically you know, there's a
negative connotation to it.
But if we spin it and it's selffirstness.
(10:58):
Like, I need to make sure I'mhonoring and respecting myself.
I wanna get clean on that.
Right?
I need to have clarity to what'simportant to me.
I need to discover what myvalues are.
I need to speak my truth andpassionately live this life
while also respecting and lovingothers.
Like, that's the ingredients tocreate, to show up effectively
with our kids so we don't keeppassing down this pattern, this
(11:22):
way of being of a peoplepleasing and to teach them,
like, it's okay to speak up foryourself if you're not okay with
something.
And you might discover you'reactually okay with it.
It was something completelyelse, you know, different, or
you might hold on to that.
It doesn't matter, but toexplore why you're bothered and
get clean on it.
So enlightened selfishness iswhat I call it.
Like, just it's okay.
(11:43):
I think the difference is a lotof times when we think of
putting ourselves first, itfeels selfish.
It feels negative.
And what I'm saying is can youdo it from a place of service to
yourself and everyone in yourlife?
That it actually that's gonnauplevel every relationship, up
level your ability to love,impact your kids, impact people
around you that you wannaimpact.
(12:03):
So I don't know what you thinkabout that, but That's what came
to mind when you were talkingabout it.
I love it especially because weare taught, again, good girl
programming that my needs comesecond.
My wants Come second.
My desires come second.
The way I wanna use my timecomes second to way the way
other people want me to use mytime.
Mhmm.
And That self I wrote down selffirstness.
I like that.
(12:24):
Yeah.
But from an enlightened placeYeah.
But this is in service, not forvengeance or frustration.
Yeah.
Since we're talking about it ina parenting context today,
interestingly, my guess is thatyou'd agree.
When a parent is caught inpeople pleasing behavior with
their child, and they're theyhave no boundaries.
(12:44):
They're adjusting andcompromising and pretending.
They're putting up with allkinds of things that they really
don't want to.
And I asked them, would you wantyour child to behave this way in
their relationships?
They always say no.
Like, no.
I would want my child to speakup.
I would want my child to knowhow to set and keep boundaries.
I would want my child to knowwho they are and what they want
(13:07):
and to honor that.
And it's just such a funny thingbecause where will they Where
will they learn that from, orwhere will they see that
reflected if not from you?
Yeah.
And just to take one stepfurther.
And if you're doing that, you'reteaching them to become the
version that you don't wantbecause you don't want them to
you know?
(13:27):
But you're modeling.
You're saying, hey.
Look at me.
This is what we should be, like,with other people.
Put them first.
Don't speak loudly about what'snot.
Or accommodate everybody, butfeel so resentful inside that
you really hate the fact thatyou're serving.
And now you've just lost all themagic of of serving and helping
other people because, yeah, it'sclouded.
(13:49):
You named the heart of it, whichis, You know, how we transition
now to talking about, like, thestrategies because you said it's
uncomfortable either way.
Yes.
Don't you think?
I oh, for sure.
I like to fool myself.
No.
I Back in the day, I would foolmyself.
I'd be like, it's fine, but it'sso terrible.
(14:12):
It is so terrible.
So let's go back to using, youknow, this example of my client
whose son was smoking pot in herhome.
It is uncomfortable to smell potin your home.
It's uncomfortable to you know,the physical aspects of it, and
then the resentment that you'refeeling are talk Uncomfortable.
It is also uncomfortable to sayto your son, hey.
(14:32):
This is not something that Iwant to have happen in my home,
And I don't want you to do itanymore and to receive
participate in whatever hisreaction is.
And I think that's what stops usIs the unknown discomfort of
setting and holding a boundary,of having a hard conversation,
of honoring what we want?
(14:54):
Talk yeah.
Well, we're more of a familiarwith one type of discomfort.
So even though it's stillcompletely useless, We will sit
there and have that discomfort.
But I think once you realize,oh, it is uncomfortable either
way, and the result is nevergonna change if I stay and, you
know, if I don't say anything,and I'm just gonna sit over here
and stew and judge and it'sgonna but if I take the risk of
(15:18):
saying something and beinghonest.
At least there's the possibilityof deeper connection.
Yeah.
You have to risk therelationship.
And Chip.
Yeah.
I really do.
What just popped into my mindwas a time when I was having a
difficult conversation with oneof my adult children when I said
to them.
Like, I am a person too.
And it felt like the first timethat I was putting my needs and
(15:39):
wants on the same level astheirs.
Because, Obviously, it's verynormal for a child to grow up
dependent on parents and seeingthem as the person who solves my
problems, the person who helpsme, the person I go to.
And I always wanna be that forthem, and I want them to know
I'm a person too.
Things hurt my feelings.
(16:00):
I have, you know, desires theway I wanna spend my time and
use my resources too.
And and so it's Navigating andlearning to befriend the
discomfort of, I think, a couplethings, like, more than one
thing can be true at once.
Taught.
I am your mom, and I want tohelp you.
(16:20):
And I will do anything I can tohelp you, and I am a person too
with my own limitations andwants and needs.
And, also, sometimes, setting alimit or a boundary or
expressing a preference orchanging course is gonna involve
feeling uncomfortable emotionsthat I'm just not used to.
(16:42):
A hundred percent.
We can be compassionate andfirm, which I think is what
happens when you heal the peoplepleasing or you're onto yourself
is I can be compassionatetowards myself, towards my
child, towards the situation,but I also can be firm in a
boundary I need to set formyself or for my child or what
matters to me.
Yeah.
Telling the truth To yourchildren, I think is one really
(17:05):
fantastic strategy for changingthings.
Even if you just say, hey.
This is really hard, And I Idon't know exactly what to do
here, but I wanna work out a newway of doing this together.
So strategy number one, justtell the truth.
And sometimes I mean, the truthwhether or not we wanna admit it
all the time is as parents, wedon't know what we are doing all
(17:28):
the time.
Sometimes I think we have apretty good sense, But there's
always that just seems to be howthis human life goes.
There's always surprises.
I'm surprised, and I can't bethe only person like this.
It's like, woah.
I didn't I think we would bedealing with this, and I don't
know.
This is hard for me.
This isn't something I've donebefore.
I wanna get it right.
(17:49):
I wanna have a lovingrelationship with you.
I don't like pot smell in myhouse.
I don't like paying for yourrent or It's hurting my personal
finances to pay for your rent orwhatever, you know, fill in the
blank of of the behavior thatyou'd like to renegotiate.
Honesty about it Mhmm.
I agree.
I think is a great first step.
(18:10):
Without honesty, what do youhave?
But having the awareness to justbe honest and then Yeah.
Not make it personal.
No judgment around it.
Sometimes we tend to do thatwhere, you know, you've done
this to me.
You've made my life hard bysmoking pot.
That's not helpful.
Just be honest with what's realfor you.
You know?
It's hard for me to have yousmoke pot out front.
(18:32):
I don't like that.
That's not what I wanna create,but don't make it about him.
Just be honest about what youwant.
So honest, simple, concise.
Leave it leave it at that andsee what happens.
I think that's really powerful.
Yeah.
And I like what you said, youknow, as watching your judgment
of it, Even admitting I havesome judgment about people who
smoke pot sometimes, and I don'twant people to judge you.
(18:55):
Sometimes I worry they'rejudging me.
We can be so honest.
And and, again, I'm thisprobably applies more to, you
know, teenagers and and adultchildren.
I don't know.
Do you think it applies Toyounger children I'm just I'm
just trying to think back to youknow, all my kids are, like,
fourteen and older now.
Actually, no.
Think it works all along.
Because I think if we're ifwe're able to get to the place,
(19:17):
whether we're being more passiveor more authoritative, and we
can see our patterns.
We can understand it and just behonest with our kids about it,
even if I have no control overYeah.
I mean, like, I know I'moverreacting right now.
I'm still really fired up aboutit or I'm still whatever.
You know?
That's the truth, but it's aboutme.
I'm gonna own it.
(19:38):
Yeah.
I need a break.
So I think honesty doesn't evergo out of style.
It's never too late.
It's never too late, and it'snever too early.
You know?
So yeah.
I like that.
Yeah.
It's never too late.
It's never too early.
And then we have to figure outhow to feel our uncomfortable
feelings.
Yeah.
I was gonna say that emotionalintelligence or getting out of
(20:01):
people pleasing requires fullyfeeling.
And I think if we wanna justbring honesty back into it,
being honest about the taughtthat it is uncomfortable either
way.
Mhmm.
Because this whole song, it thatthe it's fine.
It's fine.
It's fine.
No.
I'm fine.
I'm fine.
No.
I'm not mad.
It's okay.
No.
It's oh, no.
Totally.
No.
That whole song and dance thatwe do, it's not fine.
(20:25):
Right.
And so being honest about thefact that it actually I guess,
since we're just going with thispot example, it's not fine for
me to have the pot smell in myhouse.
And what I wanna do, I want tofigure out how to feel the
discomfort of having thisDifficult conversation, this
sticky conversation in a waythat honors me and honors you
(20:48):
and sets a boundary Because Idon't like it.
Yeah.
Well and if you're gonna use anexample of a younger child who
hopefully isn't smoking potYeah.
Ten or five.
Yeah.
But just to be clear, I mean,it's same thing with a, like, a
messy house.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
Like, I can really have adesire.
I mean, I know this is one of mydesires.
I don't love having a messyhouse, but it's a personal
(21:12):
decision I've made.
Right?
And I get to hold on to that.
But, also, if my kids are not onboard, not making them wrong,
not guilt tripping them, butalso holding that boundary and
being on like, this is a reallyimportant thing to me that we
learn how to pick our house up,that we learn how to pick up
after ourselves.
And feeling my emotions ofdisappointment or frustration or
(21:32):
anger or whatever it is as theymaybe always aren't on the same
page as me is a big deal becauseI could go passive.
Just it doesn't matter.
It's totally fine.
We'll just have them like, it'sI'll preserve the relationships,
which if I'm resentful the wholetime, the house is messy.
It's not really doing anybodyany good.
Or I can go authoritative.
If you guys don't clean up thehouse, you know, you're gonna
(21:55):
and I start putting all of thesearbitrary boundaries from a
place of frustration.
And I'm not saying thereshouldn't be boundaries or you
you can't have rules like that.
But, usually, when we go topeople I would say people
pleasing, we're we're not comingfrom a clean place.
I'm not coming.
I'm like, this is a problem, andyou guys are the problem.
So, yeah, learning how to holdthat and coming with compassion
(22:16):
yet firmness, which I say is themiddle way is the key.
So and sometimes I think thoselittle things too that maybe
aren't morally in our mind, atleast, maybe not a moral
problem.
You know?
It's not it's not like, oh, thisis right and this is wrong.
It's just a preference to giveourselves permission to be okay
with the preference.
Like, you want a a clean house?
That's beautiful.
(22:37):
Just don't be angry about it andtry to fuel it with anger
because as a big mess.
So Yeah.
Holding on to the discomfort andthen staying I always say calm,
confident, and connected Yeah.
As you're asking.
That's, I think the what do youcall it?
The the anti people pleasingcombo.
Like, if I can be calm,confident, and connected Yeah.
(22:59):
Then I'm clean, and I can speakmy truth, and I can say it
without any residual negativity.
So works every step of the way.
Yeah.
So I just want to offer one toolthat I use to help myself get to
that calm, connected, confidentplace.
(23:23):
And it's So simple, reallypowerful.
And if you're listening andwanna try this, you can.
If you want to imagine, like,some kind of sticky child, you
know, scenario and whateveremotion kinda comes into your
body, I just like to take myhands, put them somewhere on my
body.
I always just kinda default talkto my chest, and the pressure of
(23:44):
my hands on my chest kinda drawsmy awareness there.
And then I just name As much asI can about it, like, this I
hate this.
I don't like this.
It's anger.
I'm feeling so angry.
And I just start to take somedeep breaths, Make my exhale a
little bit longer, and I startto say things like, this makes
sense.
(24:05):
Yeah.
I'm angry.
This is anger.
I'm here.
I'm listening.
I'm paying attention.
Makes sense that I'm angry.
And as I breathe, it passes, itlessons, and then that calm,
confident connected place is alot more accessible.
I love that.
What are your thoughts aboutthat?
Oh, I have a similar practice.
(24:25):
Sometimes I'll talk to myselflike, oh, darling.
It's okay.
This makes total sense, youknow, almost this higher version
of myself, grandmother figurecoming in and reassuring me that
there's nothing wrong with me.
It's really just a safety thing.
I just don't feel safe rightnow, and my body's reacting this
(24:46):
way, so I love that.
If I have one recommendation foranybody listening is, yeah, just
get more comfortable with thoseemotions in our body.
They're not a problem.
And English is kind of animmature language, the way we
say I I am frustrated.
I am angry.
We claim it so boldly, and wordsmatter.
(25:07):
They really do matter.
So now I am this emotion insteadof, you know, Spanish.
I actually don't speak Spanishfluently at all, but they, you
know, they say more correct meif I'm wrong, but something's
more to the effect of I havethis emotion.
It was a much better Yeah.
Accurate way to convey what'shappening, and it's an important
(25:28):
distinction.
Okay.
This is hilarious.
I I do speak Spanish, and Inever noticed.
It's the difference of the verbof there's a permanent way to
say, Like, I am Sarah.
Like, I am Sarah.
I will always be Sarah.
But It's a different verb thatmeans a temporary condition of
just being like, uh,avergonzada.
(25:51):
I'm I'm embarrassed.
Right?
But it's like, that's not who Iam.
It's That's not who I am.
It's not who I it will beforever.
So that's thank you for teachingme something you must know about
Sarah.
A non Spanish speaker in parkingknowledge about Spanish.
I mean, it it's the same inFrench too.
And I think a lot of theromantic languages, Yeah.
They more accurately portrayemotion.
(26:13):
My hypothesis is it allows themto be to scale that emotional
ladder of maturity probably alittle faster because they're
not from a young age thinking Iam permanently frustrated.
You know?
That's interesting, though.
I love that you explained kindof the difference.
So I love that because it givesme just yet another level of
evidence that emotions are notme.
(26:35):
I'm the blue sky.
The emotions are the cloudsfloating through.
We would never say the sky orthe clouds.
The clouds are not permanent.
They're moving all the time.
Yeah.
And that's how I like to thinkof emotions, but it's taken a
lot of time because that's notfor sure.
You know, decades of thinkingand claiming it in the way I
speak verbally.
So, yeah, people who speakSpanish, you have a heads up.
(26:58):
Yeah.
Is that right?
The no.
Uh, yeah.
An advantage I don't know whatword I'm trying to think of
here.
An advantage over English onlyspeakers.
So, yeah, sit with thatdiscomfort and let the clouds
pass.
I think being aware is somethingelse we've talked about.
Like, that awareness, it'slinked right into this.
Just being aware of how am Ishowing up with my kids?
What is that creating for me.
Am I trying to get validationfrom them to prove my
(27:20):
worthiness?
Anytime we're trying to getexternal validation, It's a good
sign that we need to Yeah.
Take a break and just come backhome, not try to put that
pressure on these four kids atthat late I mean, thirty is for
a male is what I've seen is adeveloped brain, twenty five for
female.
Go females.
No.
Just kidding.
(27:41):
But We're advanced in all areas.
No.
But, I mean, we're putting a lotof pressure on brains that don't
have completely developedprefrontal cortexes to manage
our emotional state where,theoretically, we should be more
developed and capable.
So don't put that pressure onthem.
Be aware if we are.
It's okay if we are.
Yeah.
We've been trained too.
But and then I think the lastthing I was gonna say too that I
(28:03):
think is super helpful is justto identify your values.
I think you do that with thewomen you work with in your
group.
Right?
You talk about what matters.
I just think it's reallyimportant.
Because if I'm vacillating, isit okay that I want the house
clean?
Is it not okay I want the houseclean?
I'm not really sure.
That's gonna be a lot harder forme to navigate versus, yeah, it
is important, and this is why.
And, you know, and I can getreally clear on that and then
(28:27):
move forward in my life with,like, consistency and not second
guessing myself.
I don't know if you havethoughts about that, but I think
that's That's something we don'talways do.
Yeah.
I love that.
You have to clearly know what isimportant to you and why and
like your reasons for why thatthing matters to you so that it
can get the attention from youthat it deserves.
(28:48):
And, I mean, I think about it.
It's just another extension oftelling the truth.
I want my house clean for thesereasons.
I've examined them, and I likethose reasons.
And so What can we work outtogether, right, that honors me
and honors you around thisdesire that I have?
Right.
I I think it also will help younot put the the blame or the
(29:10):
responsibility of accomplishingor or staying true to that value
on anybody.
Like, if you can just keepowning that, don't put it on
them.
Like, that's what I want.
My child doesn't value a cleanhouse.
That's okay.
I probably didn't his ageeither.
So he's not trying to make mylife hard.
You just were Mhmm.
Like, so we're clean.
Like, we just need to be reallyclean about it.
It'll help.
Yeah.
Well, I didn't know I was gonnaget a Spanish lesson in addition
(29:34):
to to all of the other amazingthings that I mean, I'm I'm
thinking about it now.
That's that's really, reallyfantastic.
I have appreciated thisConversation with you so so
much.
It's just you're one of myfavorite people to Thank you.
Talk to and all of our, youknow, bouncing ideas off each
other's over the years, I think,has just created a lot of safety
(29:55):
for me in our friendship, andI'm so appreciative of that.
And if people are interested infinding out about you and
working with you.
Where can they do that?
Yeah.
So my website's connect methodparenting dot com.
It's based in developmentalpsychology.
Lots of emotional stuff in theretoo, emotional intelligence
neuroscience, so you can gocheck it out there.
(30:16):
On Instagram, it's just MandyMartineau.
So you can find me there over onFacebook at Connect Method
parenting, and I'd love to,yeah, share this with you.
It's my passion.
How about you, Sarah?
Tell everybody, since we're cocollaborating this, we're
putting on both of our podcast,the same episodes.
Yeah.
Tell them about where they canfind more for you.
(30:36):
Sarah fisk dot coach is mywebsite.
Yes.
Dot coach is a website URL thesedays.
And Instagram, it's sarahphyscoach, and I would love to help
you unwind any people pleasingor perfectionism or codependency
that you see popping up.
Got a number of ways to do that.
Awesome.
Thanks so much.
(30:56):
Again, I enjoyed this so much.
Just could just say ditto toeverything you said.
So grateful for our friendshipand the conversations we're able
to have and the journey we'veboth been on together.
So thank you, Sarah.
This has been so fun.
Love you.
Me too.
You are listening to the x GoodGirl podcast episode forty
seven.
Right before we startedrecording, Sarah was talking
about how she has some things toadd to the list that we started
with last time.
So I'm so excited to hear yourlist.
And should we start there?
Yeah.
And I just see what I love aboutyour list is it's like, how do
(00:20):
people pleasers get created?
Mhmm.
And then my list is more like,Once the people pleasing dynamic
has already existed and you feelstuck in it, how does it show
up?
How would you know, right, thatyou are stuck in people pleasing
One of your children.
And then we can talk aboutstrategies for getting out
because I think you and I bothagree that What we like is
(00:43):
useful information.
Yes.
And I wanna make sure thatpeople leave today with some
some strategies to to begin tounravel it because I think
people pleasing, it is at theheart of our most complex Human
needs.
Mhmm.
Being wanted, belonging, havingcommunity, love, friendship,
(01:06):
Knowing that we have a place inthe world, and so no wonder that
it can be tricky to unravel in away that still feels Like, we
get to keep the love that wewant intact because so many of
us, people please, to be loved.
And I think that's really at theheart of what is happening in
some of these parent childrelationships.
(01:29):
Yeah.
I would agree.
Yeah.
I'm excited to hear your list.
And I will say even though itmight not seem like what we've
talked about so far has beenhelpful, awareness is powerful.
Having somebody call out when Iheard the word resentful
accommodation.
All of the sudden, bing bingbing bing bing, I had this
awareness of what I was doing,and then I could shift.
So even though it might feellike we've talked a lot about
(01:50):
the problems or how it manifestsin your life, those are really
important because without theawareness, you're not gonna
start on being able to unravelit.
Yeah.
Right.
And we'll say it again.
Like, if you're seeing some ofthese behaviors with you and
your children, Beating yourselfup about it is a a normal human
reaction, but the least helpful.
(02:11):
Actually, the the not helpfulReaction.
And so to acknowledge, like,okay.
This is happening.
What can we do about it?
We're gonna get there, so staywith us.
So As I was thinking about, youknow, the list of the things
that I see my clients doing withtheir children, It's all about
not being able to tolerate theirchildren's negative emotions or
(02:36):
negative experiences likefailure or disappointment.
There's probably, you know, ahundred different variations on
that same inability to tolerate,but, like, I can't Let my child
get a bad grade.
So when they call me and tell methat they left their homework, I
drop what I'm doing or Irearrange my day so that I can
(02:56):
take their assignment to schoolso that they don't experience
any negative consequences.
Mhmm.
Or My child is used to gettingtheir nails done.
And so when they go off tocollege and they're now working
a A job at Baskin Robbins andnot making enough money to get
their nails done.
(03:17):
I feel obligated to send themmoney because I don't want them
to be disappointed.
That's so good.
Yeah.
I think everything's a mirror.
So it's like, I don't want themto be disappointed.
I don't wanna be disappointed.
I don't want them to failbecause that means I fail.
Like, There's this mirror, Ithink, happening always.
Because if we're comfortablewith ourselves being
(03:37):
disappointed, then we're gonnabe fine if our kids are
disappointed.
Yeah.
There's this need to fix, tojump in, to fix, to save, to
rescue, to make sure thatnegative or unwanted
consequences don't happen.
And for me personally, I have areally interesting reaction To
(03:59):
when my kids have, like,something going wrong, sometimes
I get angry.
I get angry.
Yeah.
It's so interesting Because it'slike, oh my gosh, you guys.
We just got everything workedout.
Like, you called last week, andwe Fixed all those things, and
now you're calling again.
And if my kids are listening,right, this is not about you at
(04:21):
all.
And, of course, I want you tocall me and tell me.
But it is I think for some ofus, we cover up our fear with
anger or our fear makes usAngry.
Right?
There's this relationship that Ihaven't quite totally unraveled,
but I think anger or irritationor annoyance that something is
(04:41):
going wrong again.
Like, gosh.
Why can't you just keep ittogether?
Why can't you just and it's notat all about The workings of
their human experience becausethat's what being human is.
Things fall apart then come backtogether and fall apart then
come back together.
But I think what it is for me ismy I just want it to be fine for
(05:03):
them.
I just want smooth sailing.
And when it's not, My fear ishard for me to feel, and so I
get angry instead.
Anger for me just feels moreproductive, but at the heart of
it is taught Still, this need tofix so that if they're fine,
then I can be fine.
If it's smooth sailing for them,Then it's smooth sailing for me.
(05:27):
And so their disruption becomesmy disruption.
And that's the codependent pieceof people pleasing where I'm not
fine unless they're fine.
I'm not able to experiencesmooth sailing unless they're
experiencing smooth sailing.
And so if that is Somethingthat, you know, tugs at you.
(05:50):
If you're listening, that istotally it's how we are taught
to be in relationship,especially as parents.
Right.
We're taught that our childrenare a reflection of us, that if
we love them, we will do certainthings for them, but it just
leads to all kinds of fixing andrescuing and taking
responsibility for their lives,and it shows up in things like
(06:13):
Continuing to pay for things forthem when they are out of the
house, and I don't think there'sa certain magical age at which
they should be paying forcertain things or not.
But I do know that if you, asthe listener, stop and think
about, you know, if you haveadult children, Maybe you are
paying for some things that youwish you weren't, but you don't
(06:34):
want to tell your child thatbecause you think that it will
Create some dynamic for themthat you will not like, or you
are tolerating behaviors in whenthey come back to your home.
I see this a lot with parentsand adult children that they
don't feel like they can setboundaries around behavior,
around time, around differentactivities that like, one of,
(06:59):
you know, my clients had a sonwho really enjoyed smoking pot.
And she didn't have a lot of tosay over that in his adult life,
but he would do it in her home.
And she didn't feel like shecould say to him, like, hey.
I don't want that in my homeBecause it would somehow
threaten the relationship, andhe wouldn't wanna come home
anymore.
And so putting up with behaviorsor things that You don't want to
(07:23):
be a part of your life becomesreally hard when it's connected
to will they still love me?
Will they still want to comehome?
That is so good because we thinkwhen you said that oh, this is
so good.
We we think that this is gonnathreaten the relationship if I
tell my son, hey.
You can't smoke pot at home.
But if you're back to one of myfavorite work terms, if you're
(07:45):
resentfully accommodating thebehavior, The relationship is
being threatened.
Like, every time you'reresentfully accommodating, he
feels your resentment.
He feels your anger, annoyance,however it comes out for you.
Yeah.
That is damaging yourrelationship.
Worse Yeah.
Than if you would have theability to handle the discomfort
because it's gonna be veryuncomfortable and the fear to
(08:06):
have the conversation, but it'sit's uncomfortable either way.
We think it's gonna be betterfor the relationship.
Fine.
I'll just let him smoke pot, butwe're not okay with it or
whatever the behavior is thatwe're not okay with.
Yeah.
It's worse.
And I wanna bring that up justbecause it's a thought error
that is going to help therelationship.
It's not true.
(08:26):
It's not accurate.
And maybe if you can start tofind how it's actually damaging
the thing you're trying toprotect, It'll give you the
confidence or courage to havethe conversation, which probably
will create a betterrelationship.
It might be Rocky for a bit.
He might have his feelings hurtor might be angry or whatever.
But at least you can respect theperson you're being, and he can
(08:47):
respect that you are beinghonest.
They know that the ability ahuman has to map another human
is insane.
We don't fully probably evenunderstand how it works, but we
know when someone's not happywith us.
So unless you either your twochoices are have the
conversation honestly or stopcaring.
Like, don't make it somethingthat you want.
Like Yeah.
(09:07):
I'm just gonna be okay with thepot.
Can you get there?
Okay.
Great.
Fabulous.
You can't get there?
Well, then be honest about it.
I don't know if you have anythoughts about it.
But Well, you know, this reallyGets for me, ties back to the
way we, as humans who aresocialized as females in a
patriarchal world, are taught tobe the ones to adjust.
We are taught to be the ones whocompromise.
(09:30):
We are taught to be the ones whopretend that everything is fine.
And so, Of course, this is ahard thing.
Right?
We have decades and decades ofprogramming about we should be
the ones to be kind, to be nice,to accommodate, and that's the
breeding ground for thisresentful accommodation that
turns out to be just, like yousaid, damaging the relationship
(09:54):
anyway.
We think that if I allow, thenthey'll love me.
They'll wanna come home.
They'll wanna spend time withme, but I think you hit it on
the head when you said that theway as humans that we map one
another.
It's just we're never gonna getaway with it long term.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I hear so many parents say, no.
I was so calm on the outside.
You don't understand.
(10:14):
I didn't raise my voice.
And I'm thinking, well, that isa good stop.
That's a totally good stop fromyelling.
However, if inside you wereraging, they knew that.
Yeah.
You know?
That's why this still was amismatch because they'll they'll
not be sure.
Like, why weren't the kidsresponding differently?
Well, because they see throughit.
They map it.
Yeah.
And I don't know what you thinkabout this term, but I like the
(10:36):
term enlightened selfishness.
Oh, define it.
Yeah.
Let me hear it.
Well, it's like self firstness.
Like, I have to be true tomyself.
It's not something we've beentaught.
Selfishness is always aretypically you know, there's a
negative connotation to it.
But if we spin it and it's selffirstness.
(10:58):
Like, I need to make sure I'mhonoring and respecting myself.
I wanna get clean on that.
Right?
I need to have clarity to what'simportant to me.
I need to discover what myvalues are.
I need to speak my truth andpassionately live this life
while also respecting and lovingothers.
Like, that's the ingredients tocreate, to show up effectively
with our kids so we don't keeppassing down this pattern, this
(11:22):
way of being of a peoplepleasing and to teach them,
like, it's okay to speak up foryourself if you're not okay with
something.
And you might discover you'reactually okay with it.
It was something completelyelse, you know, different, or
you might hold on to that.
It doesn't matter, but toexplore why you're bothered and
get clean on it.
So enlightened selfishness iswhat I call it.
Like, just it's okay.
(11:43):
I think the difference is a lotof times when we think of
putting ourselves first, itfeels selfish.
It feels negative.
And what I'm saying is can youdo it from a place of service to
yourself and everyone in yourlife?
That it actually that's gonnauplevel every relationship, up
level your ability to love,impact your kids, impact people
around you that you wannaimpact.
(12:03):
So I don't know what you thinkabout that, but That's what came
to mind when you were talkingabout it.
I love it especially because weare taught, again, good girl
programming that my needs comesecond.
My wants Come second.
My desires come second.
The way I wanna use my timecomes second to way the way
other people want me to use mytime.
Mhmm.
And That self I wrote down selffirstness.
I like that.
(12:24):
Yeah.
But from an enlightened placeYeah.
But this is in service, not forvengeance or frustration.
Yeah.
Since we're talking about it ina parenting context today,
interestingly, my guess is thatyou'd agree.
When a parent is caught inpeople pleasing behavior with
their child, and they're theyhave no boundaries.
(12:44):
They're adjusting andcompromising and pretending.
They're putting up with allkinds of things that they really
don't want to.
And I asked them, would you wantyour child to behave this way in
their relationships?
They always say no.
Like, no.
I would want my child to speakup.
I would want my child to knowhow to set and keep boundaries.
I would want my child to knowwho they are and what they want
(13:07):
and to honor that.
And it's just such a funny thingbecause where will they Where
will they learn that from, orwhere will they see that
reflected if not from you?
Yeah.
And just to take one stepfurther.
And if you're doing that, you'reteaching them to become the
version that you don't wantbecause you don't want them to
you know?
(13:27):
But you're modeling.
You're saying, hey.
Look at me.
This is what we should be, like,with other people.
Put them first.
Don't speak loudly about what'snot.
Or accommodate everybody, butfeel so resentful inside that
you really hate the fact thatyou're serving.
And now you've just lost all themagic of of serving and helping
other people because, yeah, it'sclouded.
(13:49):
You named the heart of it, whichis, You know, how we transition
now to talking about, like, thestrategies because you said it's
uncomfortable either way.
Yes.
Don't you think?
I oh, for sure.
I like to fool myself.
No.
I Back in the day, I would foolmyself.
I'd be like, it's fine, but it'sso terrible.
(14:12):
It is so terrible.
So let's go back to using, youknow, this example of my client
whose son was smoking pot in herhome.
It is uncomfortable to smell potin your home.
It's uncomfortable to you know,the physical aspects of it, and
then the resentment that you'refeeling are talk Uncomfortable.
It is also uncomfortable to sayto your son, hey.
(14:32):
This is not something that Iwant to have happen in my home,
And I don't want you to do itanymore and to receive
participate in whatever hisreaction is.
And I think that's what stops usIs the unknown discomfort of
setting and holding a boundary,of having a hard conversation,
of honoring what we want?
(14:54):
Talk yeah.
Well, we're more of a familiarwith one type of discomfort.
So even though it's stillcompletely useless, We will sit
there and have that discomfort.
But I think once you realize,oh, it is uncomfortable either
way, and the result is nevergonna change if I stay and, you
know, if I don't say anything,and I'm just gonna sit over here
and stew and judge and it'sgonna but if I take the risk of
(15:18):
saying something and beinghonest.
At least there's the possibilityof deeper connection.
Yeah.
You have to risk therelationship.
And Chip.
Yeah.
I really do.
What just popped into my mindwas a time when I was having a
difficult conversation with oneof my adult children when I said
to them.
Like, I am a person too.
And it felt like the first timethat I was putting my needs and
(15:39):
wants on the same level astheirs.
Because, Obviously, it's verynormal for a child to grow up
dependent on parents and seeingthem as the person who solves my
problems, the person who helpsme, the person I go to.
And I always wanna be that forthem, and I want them to know
I'm a person too.
Things hurt my feelings.
(16:00):
I have, you know, desires theway I wanna spend my time and
use my resources too.
And and so it's Navigating andlearning to befriend the
discomfort of, I think, a couplethings, like, more than one
thing can be true at once.
Taught.
I am your mom, and I want tohelp you.
(16:20):
And I will do anything I can tohelp you, and I am a person too
with my own limitations andwants and needs.
And, also, sometimes, setting alimit or a boundary or
expressing a preference orchanging course is gonna involve
feeling uncomfortable emotionsthat I'm just not used to.
(16:42):
A hundred percent.
We can be compassionate andfirm, which I think is what
happens when you heal the peoplepleasing or you're onto yourself
is I can be compassionatetowards myself, towards my
child, towards the situation,but I also can be firm in a
boundary I need to set formyself or for my child or what
matters to me.
Yeah.
Telling the truth To yourchildren, I think is one really
(17:05):
fantastic strategy for changingthings.
Even if you just say, hey.
This is really hard, And I Idon't know exactly what to do
here, but I wanna work out a newway of doing this together.
So strategy number one, justtell the truth.
And sometimes I mean, the truthwhether or not we wanna admit it
all the time is as parents, wedon't know what we are doing all
(17:28):
the time.
Sometimes I think we have apretty good sense, But there's
always that just seems to be howthis human life goes.
There's always surprises.
I'm surprised, and I can't bethe only person like this.
It's like, woah.
I didn't I think we would bedealing with this, and I don't
know.
This is hard for me.
This isn't something I've donebefore.
I wanna get it right.
(17:49):
I wanna have a lovingrelationship with you.
I don't like pot smell in myhouse.
I don't like paying for yourrent or It's hurting my personal
finances to pay for your rent orwhatever, you know, fill in the
blank of of the behavior thatyou'd like to renegotiate.
Honesty about it Mhmm.
I agree.
I think is a great first step.
(18:10):
Without honesty, what do youhave?
But having the awareness to justbe honest and then Yeah.
Not make it personal.
No judgment around it.
Sometimes we tend to do thatwhere, you know, you've done
this to me.
You've made my life hard bysmoking pot.
That's not helpful.
Just be honest with what's realfor you.
You know?
It's hard for me to have yousmoke pot out front.
(18:32):
I don't like that.
That's not what I wanna create,but don't make it about him.
Just be honest about what youwant.
So honest, simple, concise.
Leave it leave it at that andsee what happens.
I think that's really powerful.
Yeah.
And I like what you said, youknow, as watching your judgment
of it, Even admitting I havesome judgment about people who
smoke pot sometimes, and I don'twant people to judge you.
(18:55):
Sometimes I worry they'rejudging me.
We can be so honest.
And and, again, I'm thisprobably applies more to, you
know, teenagers and and adultchildren.
I don't know.
Do you think it applies Toyounger children I'm just I'm
just trying to think back to youknow, all my kids are, like,
fourteen and older now.
Actually, no.
Think it works all along.
Because I think if we're ifwe're able to get to the place,
(19:17):
whether we're being more passiveor more authoritative, and we
can see our patterns.
We can understand it and just behonest with our kids about it,
even if I have no control overYeah.
I mean, like, I know I'moverreacting right now.
I'm still really fired up aboutit or I'm still whatever.
You know?
That's the truth, but it's aboutme.
I'm gonna own it.
(19:38):
Yeah.
I need a break.
So I think honesty doesn't evergo out of style.
It's never too late.
It's never too late, and it'snever too early.
You know?
So yeah.
I like that.
Yeah.
It's never too late.
It's never too early.
And then we have to figure outhow to feel our uncomfortable
feelings.
Yeah.
I was gonna say that emotionalintelligence or getting out of
(20:01):
people pleasing requires fullyfeeling.
And I think if we wanna justbring honesty back into it,
being honest about the taughtthat it is uncomfortable either
way.
Mhmm.
Because this whole song, it thatthe it's fine.
It's fine.
It's fine.
No.
I'm fine.
I'm fine.
No.
I'm not mad.
It's okay.
No.
It's oh, no.
Totally.
No.
That whole song and dance thatwe do, it's not fine.
(20:25):
Right.
And so being honest about thefact that it actually I guess,
since we're just going with thispot example, it's not fine for
me to have the pot smell in myhouse.
And what I wanna do, I want tofigure out how to feel the
discomfort of having thisDifficult conversation, this
sticky conversation in a waythat honors me and honors you
(20:48):
and sets a boundary Because Idon't like it.
Yeah.
Well and if you're gonna use anexample of a younger child who
hopefully isn't smoking potYeah.
Ten or five.
Yeah.
But just to be clear, I mean,it's same thing with a, like, a
messy house.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
Like, I can really have adesire.
I mean, I know this is one of mydesires.
I don't love having a messyhouse, but it's a personal
(21:12):
decision I've made.
Right?
And I get to hold on to that.
But, also, if my kids are not onboard, not making them wrong,
not guilt tripping them, butalso holding that boundary and
being on like, this is a reallyimportant thing to me that we
learn how to pick our house up,that we learn how to pick up
after ourselves.
And feeling my emotions ofdisappointment or frustration or
(21:32):
anger or whatever it is as theymaybe always aren't on the same
page as me is a big deal becauseI could go passive.
Just it doesn't matter.
It's totally fine.
We'll just have them like, it'sI'll preserve the relationships,
which if I'm resentful the wholetime, the house is messy.
It's not really doing anybodyany good.
Or I can go authoritative.
If you guys don't clean up thehouse, you know, you're gonna
(21:55):
and I start putting all of thesearbitrary boundaries from a
place of frustration.
And I'm not saying thereshouldn't be boundaries or you
you can't have rules like that.
But, usually, when we go topeople I would say people
pleasing, we're we're not comingfrom a clean place.
I'm not coming.
I'm like, this is a problem, andyou guys are the problem.
So, yeah, learning how to holdthat and coming with compassion
(22:16):
yet firmness, which I say is themiddle way is the key.
So and sometimes I think thoselittle things too that maybe
aren't morally in our mind, atleast, maybe not a moral
problem.
You know?
It's not it's not like, oh, thisis right and this is wrong.
It's just a preference to giveourselves permission to be okay
with the preference.
Like, you want a a clean house?
That's beautiful.
(22:37):
Just don't be angry about it andtry to fuel it with anger
because as a big mess.
So Yeah.
Holding on to the discomfort andthen staying I always say calm,
confident, and connected Yeah.
As you're asking.
That's, I think the what do youcall it?
The the anti people pleasingcombo.
Like, if I can be calm,confident, and connected Yeah.
(22:59):
Then I'm clean, and I can speakmy truth, and I can say it
without any residual negativity.
So works every step of the way.
Yeah.
So I just want to offer one toolthat I use to help myself get to
that calm, connected, confidentplace.
(23:23):
And it's So simple, reallypowerful.
And if you're listening andwanna try this, you can.
If you want to imagine, like,some kind of sticky child, you
know, scenario and whateveremotion kinda comes into your
body, I just like to take myhands, put them somewhere on my
body.
I always just kinda default talkto my chest, and the pressure of
(23:44):
my hands on my chest kinda drawsmy awareness there.
And then I just name As much asI can about it, like, this I
hate this.
I don't like this.
It's anger.
I'm feeling so angry.
And I just start to take somedeep breaths, Make my exhale a
little bit longer, and I startto say things like, this makes
sense.
(24:05):
Yeah.
I'm angry.
This is anger.
I'm here.
I'm listening.
I'm paying attention.
Makes sense that I'm angry.
And as I breathe, it passes, itlessons, and then that calm,
confident connected place is alot more accessible.
I love that.
What are your thoughts aboutthat?
Oh, I have a similar practice.
(24:25):
Sometimes I'll talk to myselflike, oh, darling.
It's okay.
This makes total sense, youknow, almost this higher version
of myself, grandmother figurecoming in and reassuring me that
there's nothing wrong with me.
It's really just a safety thing.
I just don't feel safe rightnow, and my body's reacting this
(24:46):
way, so I love that.
If I have one recommendation foranybody listening is, yeah, just
get more comfortable with thoseemotions in our body.
They're not a problem.
And English is kind of animmature language, the way we
say I I am frustrated.
I am angry.
We claim it so boldly, and wordsmatter.
(25:07):
They really do matter.
So now I am this emotion insteadof, you know, Spanish.
I actually don't speak Spanishfluently at all, but they, you
know, they say more correct meif I'm wrong, but something's
more to the effect of I havethis emotion.
It was a much better Yeah.
Accurate way to convey what'shappening, and it's an important
(25:28):
distinction.
Okay.
This is hilarious.
I I do speak Spanish, and Inever noticed.
It's the difference of the verbof there's a permanent way to
say, Like, I am Sarah.
Like, I am Sarah.
I will always be Sarah.
But It's a different verb thatmeans a temporary condition of
just being like, uh,avergonzada.
(25:51):
I'm I'm embarrassed.
Right?
But it's like, that's not who Iam.
It's That's not who I am.
It's not who I it will beforever.
So that's thank you for teachingme something you must know about
Sarah.
A non Spanish speaker in parkingknowledge about Spanish.
I mean, it it's the same inFrench too.
And I think a lot of theromantic languages, Yeah.
They more accurately portrayemotion.
(26:13):
My hypothesis is it allows themto be to scale that emotional
ladder of maturity probably alittle faster because they're
not from a young age thinking Iam permanently frustrated.
You know?
That's interesting, though.
I love that you explained kindof the difference.
So I love that because it givesme just yet another level of
evidence that emotions are notme.
(26:35):
I'm the blue sky.
The emotions are the cloudsfloating through.
We would never say the sky orthe clouds.
The clouds are not permanent.
They're moving all the time.
Yeah.
And that's how I like to thinkof emotions, but it's taken a
lot of time because that's notfor sure.
You know, decades of thinkingand claiming it in the way I
speak verbally.
So, yeah, people who speakSpanish, you have a heads up.
(26:58):
Yeah.
Is that right?
The no.
Uh, yeah.
An advantage I don't know whatword I'm trying to think of
here.
An advantage over English onlyspeakers.
So, yeah, sit with thatdiscomfort and let the clouds
pass.
I think being aware is somethingelse we've talked about.
Like, that awareness, it'slinked right into this.
Just being aware of how am Ishowing up with my kids?
What is that creating for me.
Am I trying to get validationfrom them to prove my
(27:20):
worthiness?
Anytime we're trying to getexternal validation, It's a good
sign that we need to Yeah.
Take a break and just come backhome, not try to put that
pressure on these four kids atthat late I mean, thirty is for
a male is what I've seen is adeveloped brain, twenty five for
female.
Go females.
No.
Just kidding.
(27:41):
But We're advanced in all areas.
No.
But, I mean, we're putting a lotof pressure on brains that don't
have completely developedprefrontal cortexes to manage
our emotional state where,theoretically, we should be more
developed and capable.
So don't put that pressure onthem.
Be aware if we are.
It's okay if we are.
Yeah.
We've been trained too.
But and then I think the lastthing I was gonna say too that I
(28:03):
think is super helpful is justto identify your values.
I think you do that with thewomen you work with in your
group.
Right?
You talk about what matters.
I just think it's reallyimportant.
Because if I'm vacillating, isit okay that I want the house
clean?
Is it not okay I want the houseclean?
I'm not really sure.
That's gonna be a lot harder forme to navigate versus, yeah, it
is important, and this is why.
And, you know, and I can getreally clear on that and then
(28:27):
move forward in my life with,like, consistency and not second
guessing myself.
I don't know if you havethoughts about that, but I think
that's That's something we don'talways do.
Yeah.
I love that.
You have to clearly know what isimportant to you and why and
like your reasons for why thatthing matters to you so that it
can get the attention from youthat it deserves.
(28:48):
And, I mean, I think about it.
It's just another extension oftelling the truth.
I want my house clean for thesereasons.
I've examined them, and I likethose reasons.
And so What can we work outtogether, right, that honors me
and honors you around thisdesire that I have?
Right.
I I think it also will help younot put the the blame or the
(29:10):
responsibility of accomplishingor or staying true to that value
on anybody.
Like, if you can just keepowning that, don't put it on
them.
Like, that's what I want.
My child doesn't value a cleanhouse.
That's okay.
I probably didn't his ageeither.
So he's not trying to make mylife hard.
You just were Mhmm.
Like, so we're clean.
Like, we just need to be reallyclean about it.
It'll help.
Yeah.
Well, I didn't know I was gonnaget a Spanish lesson in addition
(29:34):
to to all of the other amazingthings that I mean, I'm I'm
thinking about it now.
That's that's really, reallyfantastic.
I have appreciated thisConversation with you so so
much.
It's just you're one of myfavorite people to Thank you.
Talk to and all of our, youknow, bouncing ideas off each
other's over the years, I think,has just created a lot of safety
(29:55):
for me in our friendship, andI'm so appreciative of that.
And if people are interested infinding out about you and
working with you.
Where can they do that?
Yeah.
So my website's connect methodparenting dot com.
It's based in developmentalpsychology.
Lots of emotional stuff in theretoo, emotional intelligence
neuroscience, so you can gocheck it out there.
(30:16):
On Instagram, it's just MandyMartineau.
So you can find me there over onFacebook at Connect Method
parenting, and I'd love to,yeah, share this with you.
It's my passion.
How about you, Sarah?
Tell everybody, since we're cocollaborating this, we're
putting on both of our podcast,the same episodes.
Yeah.
Tell them about where they canfind more for you.
(30:36):
Sarah fisk dot coach is mywebsite.
Yes.
Dot coach is a website URL thesedays.
And Instagram, it's sarahphyscoach, and I would love to help
you unwind any people pleasingor perfectionism or codependency
that you see popping up.
Got a number of ways to do that.
Awesome.
Thanks so much.
(30:56):
Again, I enjoyed this so much.
Just could just say ditto toeverything you said.
So grateful for our friendshipand the conversations we're able
to have and the journey we'veboth been on together.
So thank you, Sarah.
This has been so fun.
Love you.
Me too.
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