January 3, 2024 • 55 mins
Elizabeth Sherman joins me this week to discuss midlife and the changes women experience on different levels. Humans socialized as women experience emotional, physical, and mental changes as they get older. Health should be the overall goal but our society's ways of thinking mess that up. Diet culture and the patriarchy are such negative influences. Food and emotions co-relate - we have to learn to listen to ourselves. Have the snack you want, then unpack why you wanted it and are leaning into certain comfort behaviors. Are you paying attention to you, or are you too busy worrying about others' thoughts, feelings, or reactions rather than being present with yourself? Increasing awareness and loving yourself can improve all aspects of your life.
Find Elizabeth here:
https://www.elizabethsherman.com/
https://www.instagram.com/elizabeth.sherman.coach
https://www.facebook.com/totalhealthbyeliz
https://www.facebook.com/groups/8basichabits
Find Sara here:
https://sarafisk.coach
https://www.instagram.com/sarafiskcoach/
https://www.facebook.com/SaraFiskCoaching/
https://www.youtube.com/@sarafiskcoaching1333
https://www.tiktok.com/@sarafiskcoach
What happens inside the free Stop People Pleasing Facebook Community? Our goal is to provide help and guidance on your journey to eliminate people pleasing and perfectionism from your life. We heal best in a safe community where we can grow and learn together and celebrate and encourage each other. This group is for posting questions about or experiences with material learned in The Ex-Good Girl podcast, Sara Fisk Coaching social media posts or the free webinars and trainings provided by Sara Fisk Coaching. See you inside!
Book a Free Consult
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
You are listening to the ex goodgirl podcast episode 48.
Okay.
This is going to be, uh, a fun,great conversation.
Elizabeth Sherman is you're oneof my favorite people.
Well, you're one of my favoritepeople.
Well, there you go.
I love seeing you.
I love talking to you.
Uh, we're setting thisconversation up so that we can
(00:21):
both release it on our podcast.
Will you please introduceyourself for, uh, my people who
need to know who you are?
Yes.
And then I want you to introduceyourself for my people who need
to know who you are for sure.
Um, I am Elizabeth Sherman.
I am a life and health coach forwomen in midlife.
And I say health coach because Irecently moved from focusing on
(00:44):
weight loss to general health.
Um, and.
We can have a conversation aboutthat, but specifically the woman
that I work with, women inmidlife have so much shiz coming
at them, hormones changing, uh,relationships with their
partner, their family structuresare changing, their kids are
(01:07):
moving out, their relationshipswith friends are changing.
And their partner or theirparents, rather, and their
careers, all of that is comingat them.
And they're also asking, what ismy purpose?
Right?
And that's a lot of what youdeal with, Sarah.
And so I work with women so thattheir health doesn't get in the
(01:31):
way of.
Whatever it is that they want todo in that next phase of life.
Well, you and I have had a lotof conversations because that's
exactly where I am navigating,um, changing hormones, um, and
ADHD diagnosis.
Um, I have all the things you'vesaid changing.
You know, I became a coach five,six years ago.
(01:53):
My older three children haveleft the nest and it does seem
like.
A period of constant change, youknow, things, especially with
health.
So I'm excited to have thisconversation, not just for me,
but you are right.
The women that I work with, Iteach women how to stop people,
(02:13):
pleasing, perfection, aiding,and getting stuck in
codependency.
So that in, at any stage theyare in their life, that is not
getting in their way.
They are not saying yes whenthey mean, no, they are not
abandoning themselves andrelationships, but they're
finding their voice and reallybeing able to show up as, as who
(02:34):
they are.
They know what they want.
They know how to get it.
They know how to show up and bethemselves in the world and
really enjoy that experience.
So I think, I think we're a goodpair for this discussion today.
Well, yeah.
And as you were talking, I wasreally thinking about how I'm
actually kind of on the otherside of menopause.
(02:56):
Like I've made it through.
And I was thinking about, I'vebeen thinking about this a lot
lately about how as youngerwomen, we kind of put on the
brakes, right.
And we put our hands out andwe're like, I don't want to go
through better perimenopause.
I don't want to go throughmidlife.
Like we resist it.
And now that I'm on the otherside, yeah.
And I think because there are somany changes.
(03:19):
However, all of those changesreally create a freedom on the
other side.
So I'm talking to all of thelisteners out there who are
like, Oh, my God, this is likethe worst.
Everything is coming at me rightnow.
Like, look at it.
As a place of growth, because onthe other side, you get to
(03:40):
rediscover what you want.
And if we could band together aswomen in midlife, we could
totally overthrow thepatriarchy.
Like we are the underdogs here.
And so we can completely changewhat midlife means, what it
means to be a midlife woman.
(04:02):
I'm excited.
That it's so interesting becauseI think what stops us.
Is this, this real lack ofknowledge about our bodies, this
lack of, of, you know, this lackof medical knowledge in
professionals.
I mean, I am trying to figureout hormones.
(04:25):
I went to see my primary caredoctor last week and he and I
have enjoyed my relationshipwith him.
I feel like he's a competentdoctor.
He said, well, we'll just putyou on some estrogen and just
kind of see how it goes.
And I said, what do you mean tosee how it goes?
She's like, well, you know,we're just going to have to try
a bunch of things and it just.
(04:48):
This reaction of like, oh, mygosh, there are multiple
medicines out there for men tohave erections.
And there's, it's like, not hitor miss.
It's this.
They know exactly what to do.
It has been the product of allthis research and time spent
into men's pleasure.
And yet.
It just seems like the women'shormone part of things is like
(05:11):
this scattershot approach to,well, let's just throw a bunch
of things at the wall and seewhat sticks.
And meanwhile, the symptoms I'mhaving.
And so the, the lack ofknowledge, first of all, I think
me about my own body, but alsoin the medical world, women's
health and hormones just don't.
(05:32):
Seem to have been given a lot ofairtime so that we have like
real accurate information now.
I think that is changing.
Um, but here I am in thismoment.
So where do you see what areyour thoughts about that?
I just talked a lot.
Yeah, no, no, no.
I have a lot of thoughts aboutthat.
First is that it's important tounderstand that.
(05:56):
Women's bodies were excludedfrom intentionally excluded from
medical research until the 1950sbecause our bodies were
considered to be quote unquote,too complicated with hormones.
So that being said, theirwomen's health is so new still.
(06:16):
And many doctors still functionand I don't want to get too much
into the menopause thing becausewe have other things that we
want to talk about.
But, um, doctors are stillworking off of.
Tests and results that reallyare not current.
So for many women, and I'm sureyourself included, you go to
(06:39):
your doctor and you say, I'mhaving these symptoms and your
doctor kind of blows you off andsays, Oh, it's your normal.
It's just part of midlife oreven more frustrating.
The tests show that you're notin perimenopause or menopause
yet.
So there's nothing I can doabout it.
And so it can feel verydisempowering.
And, um, so we really have along way to go with that.
(07:04):
Uh, and it makes perfect sensebecause men are the ones who are
holding the purse strings whenit comes to medical research and
they're not interested in womenfrom.
At least a biologicalstandpoint, right?
And so they're like women'shormones, who wants to pay for
that?
(07:24):
Right?
And so it's now starting tochange.
However, you know, I used towhen I work with clients on
their hormones.
I used to ask them to talk totheir mothers or their
grandmothers or their answer,you know, whoever in their
family.
But then I started realizing,well, they had even less
information than we do today.
(07:45):
Like your mom probably knewabout hot flashes.
Maybe she knew about insomnia,but like, what did she really
know about her other, there arelike 85 different symptoms of
menopause.
And so that can last over 20years.
(08:06):
So yeah.
And you know, to, to segueprobably into the conversation
that we're going to have, one ofthose symptoms is weight gain.
And so many women will try tofight that symptom of weight
(08:27):
gain through dieting.
Because that's what we knew.
However, women's bodies inmenopause and perimenopause are
very different than they used tobe when they were in, you know,
their thirties or even theirtwenties.
Not to mention that all of thediet, not all it's changing most
(08:48):
of the diet information that wegrew up with, the weight loss
information that we grew up withwas based on studies of college
aged men, women in midlife don'thave the same hormonal balance
as college aged men.
And so what's happening is.
We're trying to do this eatless, move more thing.
(09:09):
And what it's doing is it'screating more stress and
imbalance in our bodies andtherefore throwing our entire
bodies out of whack.
So some women will experiencemore brain fog.
They'll have more, um, uh, therebound effect when it comes to
eating.
Cause you can only eat so muchless.
(09:32):
Um, and cravings will get betteror bigger.
Uh, they're, they'll have moreinsomnia because their body is
stressed out.
And so it really, yeah, I have alot to say.
Yeah, and that's, that's kind ofwhere, right, you know, lands
squarely where I am just in myown personal experience.
(09:54):
So what is the lens throughwhich you look through to kind
of talk about all of this?
Health in particular, weightloss.
Yeah.
So first of all, we kind of haveto back up and really talk about
diet culture because we havegrown up in a country or in a
(10:15):
culture where losing weight isbetter that somehow we have.
Expected that as a 55 year oldwoman, that I should look like I
did when I was 30 years old.
Who decided that?
(10:37):
And so we really need to look atour relationship with food.
We need to look at ourrelationship with our body.
We need to look at patriarchy,that women are taught that
looking good isn't moreimportant than our brains, that
looking good is more importantthan health, that If we're lucky
(11:01):
as young women, we will attracta successful man and men are
taught that if they'resuccessful, they'll attract a,
an attractive woman, right?
And so it's all steeped in thisweird thing of, we need to look
a certain way.
We need to look the way thatsociety expects us to look.
(11:26):
It's so insidious.
I was talking with my husbandabout this very thing, just
that.
A woman, no matter what she saysor does with her life, there's
always the added judgment of herbody.
What she's wearing, whether ornot her physical features line
up with the, you know, kind ofthis socially agreed upon idea
(11:49):
of what beautiful is or isn't.
And I was looking up online forhim, just example after example
of brilliant women criticizedfor wearing the wrong thing.
Smart, articulate women, uh, whohave, you know, their size
mocked.
And.
(12:11):
Because we have just grown up init.
I don't think we realize justhow pervasive the belief is that
our body is bad or wrong.
I love all of the kind oftalking about it that I hear
going on now, but I think thisis kind of where.
(12:32):
Our work intersects and that Ilook at the human, the female
experience, you know, humansocialized as females through
the lens of what creates safetyand belonging when we are
younger, kind of is the obstacleto it when we're older and that
when we're younger, it isessential that we please other
(12:54):
people, right?
Because we can't take care ofourselves.
We need them to care for us,help us nurture us, teach us,
you know, all the things.
But then when we get older,this.
We using aspect or thisperfectionism aspect actually
gets in the way of us livingkind of free life that that we
(13:15):
want and I see our food and bodyobsession the same thing.
In that when we're younger, wecan't really, I mean, what 11
year old girl out there 11 yearsold is when I first have my
first memory of, like, looking,I'm standing in line on the
playground.
I look down at my stomach, I waswearing a purple band T shirt.
(13:36):
I still remember it.
And I was just looking at how mystomach, like, pushed against
the fabric of the shirt.
And I remember looking.
To my left and to my right atother stomachs and like, does
everybody's stomach do this?
Is it just my stomach?
And so you're kind of, we'rekind of raised in this culture
of trying to make our bodieslook like a certain thing, but
(13:58):
then that very.
Pursuit is what gets in the waylater in life of having a
healthy, loving relationshipwith something that we need,
which, which is food.
Just like we need other people.
We also need food.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And not to mention that thereare so many cultures who we give
(14:19):
to the people that we lovethrough food, right?
Mothers will give theirchildren.
If you're feeling sick, what canI do for you?
Do you want chicken soup?
Do you want orange juice?
What can I do for you?
Um, and so, yeah, it totallymakes sense that we have this
balled up relationship with foodand with love and with emotions.
(14:44):
And so, and plus no one reallyteaches us.
How to have a good relationshipwith food.
Maybe if you're lucky, you seeit modeled in your parent.
Um, I think that that canprobably be a little bit more
frequent when we're talkingabout alcohol.
That some people have a healthyrelationship with alcohol
(15:08):
modeled by their parent.
Um, but I think that, you know.
Dieting and food is sointerconnected in our culture
that it's more difficult to seethat in the family structure.
It's interesting.
My mom never once, I never sawher diet.
I never saw her hair like count,you know, I, if, if she ever
(15:34):
went on a diet, I knew nothingabout it.
Um, we didn't talk a lot aboutbody.
So I think our kind of, youknow, it, it swung the other way
where we kind of just didn'ttalk about it.
Um, she never commented on mysize, never, like, I don't
remember one single conversationwith her about.
Uh, being thin or is that beingmore beautiful like it was
(15:58):
almost like it just didn'texist, but still I remember
buying my first dexatrim dietpills, you know, from Fox drugs,
uh, uh, probably 14.
It doesn't, for me, it didn'teven really matter that it
wasn't a part of my conversationwith my mom, but she did use
(16:20):
food as like love.
Let me make you something.
Are you hungry?
Let me feed you.
Um, it's just, it's unavoidable.
It's just the air we breathe.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
Um, and yeah, so for anylisteners out there who have
young children who are like, Iwant to shelter my child from
this.
You can't unfortunately, um,there's actually a really
(16:42):
interesting stat that, uh, Fiji,I think it was, um, did not have
television or at least Americantelevision.
And in 1980 they brought on, Ithink it was Baywatch or
something like that.
And within, I want to say one tothree years.
Many teenage girls starteddieting.
(17:04):
So we see it on TV.
We see it in our culture.
It's almost impossible to avoid.
So yeah.
So the conversation that you andI are trying to have is not
exhaustive or authoritative, butit's what we have found to be
helpful as we're talking abouthealthy relationship with food.
(17:29):
Thank you.
And healthy just means it's onethat you like the results of.
Like that, that is my definitionof healthy when you have a
relationship and you look at theresults and you like the results
of that.
I think that's healthy.
How do you define healthy?
Well, so first of all, I thinkit's important to say that there
are no good foods and bad foods.
(17:50):
We've been taught that there aregood and bad foods that, um,
brownies are somehow bad andthat broccoli is good.
When we think about good foods,we think of broccoli, chicken
breasts.
Spinach, all of those things.
And then when we think of badfoods, we think of French fries
and pizza and everything that'sdesirable, right?
(18:12):
Everything that we've also hasbeen marketed to us as being,
um, fun foods, right?
So like going to a party and youhave pizza or you have burgers
at, you know, cookouts andthings like that.
So, what I think is actuallyreally important and what my
(18:33):
clients really struggle withwhen we first talk about food is
the idea that Brownies areactually the same as broccoli
and they're like, but Elizabeth,that can't possibly be true that
if brownies are the same asbroccoli, then I'm going to eat
brownies all the time.
And no, you're not because youcan have one brownie and then
(18:57):
two brownies.
And then after a certain point,you're not going to feel good
anymore and you're going tostart to crave the broccoli.
And so it's really about.
Understanding how much of eachof these foods does my body need
in order to feel good movingforward.
(19:20):
And so as we move into midlife,we start to notice that
different foods make us feeldifferently.
So if you have broccoli, or I'msorry, brownies, before you go
to bed, you might notice thatyou have trouble sleeping.
Definitely I notice withalcohol.
How about you?
Uh, yeah, I, it ruins me, itruins my sleep for sure.
(19:44):
Yeah.
And so when we can approach foodfrom the standpoint of what
makes me feel good, not in themoment, but In an hour, in two
hours, tomorrow, next week, nextmonth, then we can start to
build the relationship with foodthat we want.
(20:05):
And I love your, your analogy offood relationship.
Can you share that?
Yeah.
Uh, I think it's exactly thesame with people, like how much
of a certain person is good forme.
How much of a certain activityis good for me?
People pleasers get reallycaught up in doing a lot of
(20:27):
things for a lot of people allthe time as a way of being
valuable, earning love, feelingconnected and feeling safe.
And that makes a lot of sensebecause that's what we were
taught to do.
But when we come into adulthoodand we have some more control
over.
The circumstances in our lifewhere we live our work, you
know, being financially, um,independent.
(20:51):
That is a fantastic time tostart looking at the amount of
time that I spend with certainpeople that maybe it doesn't
make me feel good.
It's like eating nothing butbrownies all day.
I go to bed and I feel gross.
I feel heavy.
I feel sad.
I feel, uh, it, you know,disconnected from me because
(21:11):
I've given so much of myself tothem.
And so I like looking at myrelationship with food exactly
like I look at my relationshipwith people in my life.
How much of this person is goodfor me under what circumstances.
Sometimes I might have a lotmore availability if it's
somebody that I want arelationship with, and I can
(21:34):
have more of them.
And sometimes I need less likeboundaries around.
Um, and and limitations can befor me just as much as.
Um, we're kind of taught to, tosee kind of boundaries and
limitations as negativesometimes, like having
boundaries about what I say yesto who I say yes to.
(21:57):
I think there's a lot ofcorrelation there with food.
Absolutely.
Like I'm just thinking of peoplein my life and there are people
who I go to when I want to feelaccepted and listened to and
cradled.
But I can't spend all of my timewith those people because it's a
little too intense.
(22:18):
And then I have people that I goto when I just want to blow off
steam.
They're kind of like the candy.
Right.
And they're not like, I mean,they're good friends, but I know
that I'm not going to call themat three o'clock in the morning
when I need to go to thehospital.
Right.
Or if you're on the side of aroad or something like that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And so, but you need thosepeople in your life and neither
(22:39):
are good and neither are bad.
Right.
And I, uh, absolutely right.
And I think for me, knowing whatthat is has come from first
learning to listen to myself.
I think for a long time I usedfood to not listen to myself.
(22:59):
I used food to turn offuncomfortable emotions.
I used food to distract myselfFrom hard situations, and I
think I even used food to kindof keep myself.
Numbed, um, from, from thi fromthings, you know, that, that
were happening.
(23:20):
There was a period of time in mymarriage where it was really,
really difficult and I rememberI made microwave s'mores.
I would, Mike put a grahamcracker, a marshmallow, and I
was sticking in the microwave.
'cause who wants to build a firefor one s'more and.
Stick some chocolate in it wouldget all nice and melty and I
would eat three or four micros'mores a day just to have like
(23:44):
something good, something sweet,something satisfying, because it
didn't feel like anything elsewas.
And the first thing that I hadto do to just figure out what do
I want in my life is to come tomyself first.
And start listening to me, andthat is a hard thing to do in a,
(24:08):
in a culture and society thatdoesn't teach girls to do that.
It teaches them to listen toeverybody outside of themselves.
Um, so that's kind of where Ifeel like things shifted or
changed for me.
What about you?
Yeah.
So I, I have this saying thatlike, if food is the best part
of your day, we need to fix yourday, right?
(24:32):
Because so many of us have, Iused to run to food all the
time.
And I remember when our coachsaid, I can take the desire for
food away from you.
I was like, I don't know if Iwant that, but it's so
fascinating now being on theother side of that, where a
cookie is like, I am one ofthose people now.
(24:54):
I never thought that I thoughtthat you were born with the
ability to eat just one cookie.
I didn't know that it wassomething that you could learn.
And so to be able to do that,because the rest of my life is
actually so much more joyous.
Like that food isn't the partthat I look the most forward to,
(25:15):
but I had the, a very similarexperience as you did that I, my
mom was an emotional eater.
And so that's what I saw.
I witnessed her like.
Emotionally eating.
And so that's what I grew upwith.
Yeah, and we're never going toget rid of emotional eating.
(25:37):
What I think that most of uswant to do is we want to stop
the unconscious emotional eatingor the feeling like I don't know
what was happening with you,whether you were conscious about
eating those s'mores or not.
But.
Not having the craving where itfeels like that is overtaking
(25:58):
your ability to make a gooddecision.
Yeah, absolutely.
And, and I think, I mean, if,if, if I could kind of go back
and talk to myself, I would say,like, Sarah, you are using food
to try and fix problems thatfood won't fix.
(26:20):
So what is the actual problemhere?
The actual problem is I don'tknow how to tell my husband how
I'm feeling because I don'treally know how I'm feeling.
It's just this angry, sad.
You know, happy mixture that Idon't really know very well.
And so having a s'more, which atthe time I don't, I have zero
(26:42):
judgment about that.
And I have zero judgment nowwhen I turn to food because I
want, you know, to feelsomething good now.
What I do instead is I just knowthat I need to just come back to
me.
What's happening here?
Is it a problem?
Food will fix even if the foodtastes good and I still want to
(27:02):
eat it.
I, I have no problem with thatbecause what I've gotten so much
better at is listening to theemotional side of my experience,
what my emotions are trying totell me the information that
they have for me.
And I know that I'm going to doboth.
I'm going to have the cookie ifI want the cookie, and I'm going
to address this.
(27:23):
Transcribed The pain or thesadness or the loneliness.
Um, I think when, when my 3older kids who have, you know,
since moved away and they'reworking and going to school, I
was.
I have, I had a lot of sadnessthat, um, that I think was
wrapped up in some of the eatingthat I was doing and just
(27:44):
befriending my emotions has beenthe thing that has given me the
compass to know, is thissomething that I'm trying to
solve with food?
Do I want the, do I want acookie if so fine, but I also
need to just listen to what mybody is trying to tell me.
(28:06):
Yeah, like I spent most of myyoung adult life completely
numb.
I prided myself on the fact thatI wasn't a crier.
And since I've been in your StopPeople Pleasing program, I have
found myself crying so much, um,which we could talk about later.
(28:27):
But I realized that I was tryingto cut out the negative emotions
through eating or denying them.
And it, when I started waking upto the fact that I had emotions,
they were such a tight, tight.
Tangled, but bundle can't say itof emotions.
(28:48):
I was like, I don't even knowwhat I'm feeling like.
My brain was completely goingoffline and I felt frustrated
and angry and I would explode.
I would react instead of respondand that was right around the
time that I realized, okay,something is wrong here.
I need to figure this out and itwas actually quite around the
(29:08):
time that I started.
Um, paying attention to why wasI eating?
And really asking myself, okay,so I want to eat, I'm, I'm
standing in the pantry right nowlooking for food.
I'm not hungry.
What am I feeling?
Why am I here?
Is it because of the time ofday?
Is it because I'm feeling anemotion?
(29:30):
What is actually happening rightnow?
And so it's taken me a littlebit to get to where you are
with, um, accepting and loving.
each emotion, but at least theawareness piece was super
important for me.
Awareness is just where it'slike such a, such a self
(29:54):
investigative process.
I love.
Uh, Glennon Doyle says, youknow, you're both the detective
and the mystery.
You know, you're, you're, youare the mystery that you're
trying to also figure out and,and unraveling, I think
ourselves is such a beautifullyIt's such, it's such a beautiful
(30:16):
process where it's like aroundwhat I have found for myself is
that around every corner.
I am, I'm endlessly fascinatingwhy I do what I do.
I think what I think.
And as I have given that someair time, and as I have stopped
at the same time, I think it's akind of a two step process
(30:37):
stopping the judgment.
I used to beat myself upendlessly for what I would eat
or what I would not eat.
I think that's common and tostop that judgment voice at the
same time is increasingawareness and to just.
Fully, um, understand if notlove, like, Oh, I'm sad because
(30:59):
I, um, this happened justyesterday.
I gave my son a haircut.
Uh, he didn't like it.
Uh, he thought I had messed itup.
I felt the surge of anger.
Um, and then I thought, why am Igetting angry at this?
15 year old kid.
It's because I don't want to betold that I did something wrong,
(31:20):
right?
It's, it's sensitivity to beingtold that I'm wrong, even about
a haircut and then not wantinghim to go to school and be
embarrassed that his mom cut hishair wrong.
Like, you know, that the storythat we tell.
And so I love the process ofcoming to ourselves with this
openness about who we are andwhy we feel what we feel,
because one of the things thatwe do get to unravel is.
(31:43):
Why am I eating what I'm eatingif it has nothing to do with
solving this actual problem andfor me health, you know, you can
be healthy at any size.
There's actual, there's anactual mountain of data called
the health at any size movementthat has nothing to do with the
number on the scale.
But what I find health to beabout is knowing my boundaries
(32:06):
and limitations with people.
With activities with service,you know, I've as women, we've
really been socialized to giveand give and give and give and
give and to include food in thatboundaries limitations that are
for me has really just been agame changer in terms of how we
(32:26):
look at food.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And you know, one of the thingsthat, um, one of the arguments
against health with any size isthat we decouple or we couple
rather, um, that your size is adirect reflection of your.
(32:47):
Uh, your health.
And that's actually not true.
And what's actually moreimportant is not so much your
size, but what it is that youare eating.
So one example of that is thatdairy products can cause knee
pain.
And so oftentimes people willsay, well, if I lose weight,
(33:10):
then I will stop.
The knee pain.
Well, maybe all we need to do ischange your diet so that you're
eating foods that aren't causinginflammation in your body.
Now that may relate to a lowerweight, but it might not.
And so something that we weretalking about earlier was that
(33:33):
I'm trying to lose weight for myhealth.
Is a very trendy new way ofsaying, I want to lose weight
and how we know that that's alie is if you don't lose weight,
but you do change your diet andyou start exercising and
sleeping well and doing all ofthe things that are good at that
(33:55):
make you feel good, but youdon't lose any weight and you're
still frustrated.
Then we know that there'ssomething else going on there,
right?
Yeah.
Or if you do, you know, losesome weight and it doesn't feel
like enough, or if you do getyour health numbers, I, I do
think it matters to payattention to a one C and blood
(34:18):
glucose and, and, and to avoiddiabetes.
But if you avoid that and youstill want to keep tweaking and
doing things, or.
You know, if you do lose someweight and you just find other
things about your body that youwant to fix or change, I think
it, it's just kind of this neverending.
If you are going to be lookingoutside of yourself for the, the
(34:42):
markers of what is beautiful,what is sexy, what is, what
looks good.
It is a never ending, um, merrygo round of new, new ideas.
And so.
I think coming home and cominginternal is really the only
unchanging experience that wecan create for ourselves that we
(35:04):
can trust because I now knowwhat feels good in my body.
I now know what food feels goodin my body.
I now know what, um, whensomething is quote unquote off,
right?
And maybe it's something that Iate.
Maybe it's how I'm feeling.
I know how to distinguish.
The 2 and that means I have, uh,I have the, the, the quote
(35:29):
unquote problem, the rightproblem to solve the right.
It's not even a problem.
Like, I just, I know what issueto work on.
I keep having more words thatjust make it sound like it's
bad, but see, I don't consideremotions bad.
So if I'm angry, I just need tolet myself be angry and process
my anger.
I don't think it's a problem.
If I want a brownie, I just needto eat a brownie and.
(35:51):
The judge dropping the judgmenthas helped it become such a
process of all my own that itfeels so distinct from looking
outside of me.
What do you think I should eat?
How do you think my body shouldlook?
Do you think I'm pretty?
Do you think I'm skinny enough?
It just, it's a completelydifferent experience.
(36:14):
And something that you mentionedearlier that I just want to come
back to is.
Something that's been reallyhelpful in your program Stop
People Pleasing has been wakingup to what it is that I want,
because so many women, we don'tknow what we want, and we don't
know why we make the decisionsthat we do make.
(36:35):
We're not really clued intothat.
And so I think that waking up tothat.
And really asking myself, why doI make the decisions that I do
when it comes to food or even mybody and what I'm going to wear
(36:55):
or how I'm going to style myhair or any of it.
Can be so revealing.
And do you like your reasons fordoing that?
Yeah.
It's something we never stoppedto do is investigate our reasons
and make sure we like them.
What, um, what has, what havebeen the big things for you in
(37:18):
the stop people pleasingprogram?
I think that that is the biggestone.
Like, what is it that I reallywant?
And I, you know, it's sointeresting because.
I realized, so I have a coupleof podcasts episodes already,
um, that are about peoplepleasing and eating.
(37:39):
And I realized a while ago,before I started coaching, or
when I was in the middle ofcoaching that In my journey to
improve my relationship withfood that I really had to
advocate for myself when it cameto what it was that I wanted to
eat.
And I think that so many womendon't do that.
(38:01):
Um, that they want to beconsidered low maintenance.
At least I know that I did, thatI felt like I should be able to
eat like a 13 year old boy andat the same time have the body
of a Victoria's secret model.
And then I got resentful with mybody when it wasn't doing what
it was quote unquote supposed todo, which was be lean and
(38:23):
beautiful and everything else.
But I've now been able to takethat.
What do I want and apply it toall the other areas of my life.
Um, and even like my businessand in my relationship with my
partner, like just those littletiny things that we're like, Oh,
(38:45):
it's not that big of a deal, butin the grand scheme of things,
it becomes a big deal.
Right.
So that's been huge.
And, and the big deal is.
Knowing who you are and what youwant and how to get more of that
in your life.
I that I think because of allthe changes that happen in
(39:09):
midlife, especially if.
You are a woman who has hadchildren, uh, if you are a woman
who has had even like a, acareer that has taken a lot of
your time and attention whenthose things start to shift and
change the most common thing Ihear from women who have had
children or going through careerchanges without.
(39:30):
Their career with the children.
I don't even know who I am.
Like, that's just what I do allday.
I don't even know what I want.
I don't even know who, what mypreferences are.
What would I do with a day off?
You know, what are my hobbies?
What do I enjoy?
And so I think you're right thatwho am I and what do I want?
(39:52):
That is a question that seems sofundamental.
A lot of us don't know.
Well, that's because we're toldby society what we are supposed
to be.
We are supposed to be nice.
We're supposed to be the goodmother, the good daughter, the
good employee, the good boss.
Like we're supposed to exist forother people.
Like I hate the oxygen maskanalogy because it tells us that
(40:16):
we have to put our own oxygenmask on.
We have to be healthy.
We can help other people behealthy, but no, you are a
living human being that exists.
And so you deserve self care.
Like think about the way thatyou think about yourself.
(40:37):
If your daughter were to thinkabout that way, herself that
way, it would break your heart.
So you deserve what it is thatyou want because.
You do.
You are worthy.
Yeah.
What is something that feelspossible for you now that didn't
(40:59):
feel possible before being inStop People Pleasing?
Oh, um, um, so, you know, I havebeen on this Stop People
Pleasing journey for actually acouple of years now.
Like, being in the program has,has, Like, I, I started my own
(41:23):
journey, gosh, I think it wasabout two years ago, um, when I
didn't want, I'll just say itmen to hug me when I didn't want
to be hugged.
You know, like when you'releaving a party and you're
saying goodbye and people arelike, Oh, let me hug you and
kiss you.
I'm like, no, like I just, I'mnot a hugger anyway, but then to
(41:47):
have this weird.
Man, do it just like reallygross me out.
And so that was my foray intostopping people pleasing.
And so what it's really given meis the ability to not feel bad,
to not take on other people'semotions, to really, um, we
(42:12):
talked about enmeshment, soreally.
D mesh myself from otherpeople's emotions.
I don't know how to say that.
Yeah.
Like not taking other people'sreactions as my problem.
And so, And I think it should bementioned, you live in a place
where hugging and kissing is acultural expectation, right?
(42:37):
It's not just, it's not, youknow, it's not just a few
weirdos doing it.
It's everyone who, because it'spart of the, the culture where
you live.
And so I love that you said tonot.
To not take on that, thereactions of other people as
something about you.
(42:58):
That's a hard skill as, assomeone socializes a woman and
especially in a place where it'sjust such a part of the culture.
Yeah.
It's, it's really beenempowering because, and you
know, ultimately there are a lotof people who are like, yeah, go
you.
(43:18):
And there are some that don'tget it.
That's okay.
Maybe eventually they will.
I'm, I'm willing to wait.
What I love is just deciding foryourself.
This is what I want, or this iswhat I do not want.
And just because I want it ordon't want it is enough.
(43:41):
Well, and I think that it's alsoreally important, especially if
there's anyone listening who haskids who they're like, well, I
can't have what I want because Ihave to take care of these
little people in my house.
And it's not about saying thisis what I want and then being
selfish.
It's just acknowledging thatthis is what I want.
(44:05):
And this is what I want for thepeople that I love.
So two questions that I reallylike to ask within my practice
is, What would you do if youloved yourself?
And then how do I want to showup in this relationship and why
those two questions areimportant is because how what
(44:26):
would I do if I loved myself atleast answers the question of
what do I want and then how do Iwant to show up in the
relationship answers thequestion of.
How do I want to show love forthe people that I'm in
relationship with?
I love, I love that you put itthat way.
(44:47):
When I talk to women, you know,typically their kids needs are
higher than their needs.
Like, uh, you can't see me, butmy left hand is, is high.
And then my right hand is aboutsix inches below.
And that's the typicalrelationship in which most
women's needs exist relative toother people's needs.
And when I talk about not peoplepleasing anymore.
(45:09):
Many women think that I'msuggesting their needs go over
everyone else's and that theirneeds are more important than
everyone else's.
And it kind of activates thisfear of being called selfish,
which is the worst thing that awoman can be.
And what I'm advocating is.
Equal, right?
That, that, that my needs arenot more important than yours.
(45:32):
Not less important either.
Sometimes I choose me.
Sometimes I choose you.
And I think there's, there'ssome really great analogy to
food there too, is like all foodis just food.
There's not good food.
There's not bad food.
Sometimes I choose a brownie.
Sometimes I choose broccoli whenI like my reasons.
And I know what.
What that what those reasonsare.
(45:53):
I think the same thing appliesto relationships when we're
really learning to eliminate thetype of pleasing that we don't
like the results of it'sinvestigating our reasons and
then being willing to feel theuncomfortable emotion as you
have had to feel when youdecline the hug and kiss when
(46:13):
it's culturally expected.
Yeah, there's some there's somediscomfort there that you have
to sit with.
Because it's consistent withwhat you want, though, so the
price is worth it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And, you know, we were talkingon another conversation about
the different layers that peoplepleasing and food get
intermixed.
(46:34):
And I think that what happens iswhen we abandon ourselves so
frequently and we don't giveourselves what we need, we
actually end up doing that inunhelpful ways.
And one of the ways that we dothat.
Goes back to the, if food is thebest part of your day, you have
to, we need to fix your day ismaybe some asking for what you
(46:58):
want so that you don't have torun to food in order to get it.
Like I think about, you know,having a holiday party and then
you're in the kitchen alonecleaning up and you're like, Oh
my God, I just have the last.
I need five minutes to myself.
And as you're in there, you'rejust like devouring the carrot
(47:20):
cake that you had for dinner.
And then you feel terrible aboutit because you know, it wasn't
what you planned or what youwanted to do.
Right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And so often we don't advocatefor ourselves.
And so we run to food in orderto fix that need.
Yeah.
When, what we need is somebodyelse to get their ass in here
(47:41):
and help with these dishesbecause this is not my job to do
the dishes for, for everyone.
So yeah, I love the, um, all thedifferent ways that just knowing
ourselves better opens up morepossibilities.
And I have so appreciated, uh,your willingness to, to have
this conversation with me today.
(48:02):
Is there anything that we didn'ttouch on that you really want to
make sure gets said?
There's one thing that Iactually want to talk about as
far as people pleasing goes andhormones that we didn't, uh,
touch on.
Um, and I'm going to ask you todo the same thing.
So think about that while I'mtalking.
So I'm sure Sarah, that you haveso many women in midlife coming
(48:25):
to you.
And for anyone who's listening,who is in that perimenopause
menopause time, um, I want youto be aware that your ability to
give an F is physiological.
It's not just something thathappens to women.
(48:48):
So.
As women, when we're younger, wehave higher levels of estrogen.
Estrogen actually makes us nice.
And so as younger women, it'sreally important that we are
nice and people pleasing becausewe need to reproduce.
And so we need to find someonewho wants to reproduce with us.
(49:13):
As we get older, out ofreproductive years, our estrogen
levels drop.
And when our estrogen levelsdrop, we are less tolerant of
other people's BS.
And so, I think it's just reallyimportant for everyone listening
to understand that If you are atthat stage where you're like, I
(49:36):
just cannot deal with all ofthis stuff anymore.
I need some for me.
You are not alone.
Like this is a physiologicalresponse.
And I think that's hilarious andtracks.
Yes.
And I also think that that justknowing, knowing how we're
(50:00):
programmed for our biology is soimportant and also finding the
freedom in that biologicalprogramming to still have the
experience that we want to have,whether it's not people pleasing
anymore, not getting so stuckand whether or not something is
perfect or working out arelationship with food that
(50:20):
feels Loving and like it caresfor us.
We can celebrate with food whenwe, I mean, I love food when,
you know, when we want to havelike a great meal, we can have
it and that we know and like ourreasons.
I think it's just, it's such agift that that coaching offers
us in general.
So I, I really appreciate youbeing willing to have this
(50:43):
conversation and.
I just think you're fantasticand so are you, Sarah, you work
with folks one on one and inyour group.
Is that correct?
Is any other people can workwith you?
No, that's uh, I take due totake clients one on one.
The next stop people pleasinggroup starts the week of
(51:04):
February 8th.
And people can learn more aboutthat by finding me on social
media, uh, Instagram, Sarah fistcoaching and checking out the
link in my bio there.
What about for you?
And don't forget you have yourpodcast, which is called the
track good girl.
Yes.
I'm the host of the X good girlpodcast.
Yes.
Elizabeth, tell people in yourpodcast and where to find you.
(51:26):
Yeah.
So my podcast has recentlyrebranded.
It used to be called done withdieting and now it's called
total health and midlife withElizabeth Sherman.
And And, um, I, you can find meon social at Elizabeth dot
Sherman dot coach and Instagramand total health by Eliz on
Facebook.
And then, um, let's see, mywebsite is Elizabeth Sherman.
(51:48):
com.
I work with folks one on one andwith group and, you know, Since
I have visibility into my group,as well as your group, I think
that actually our groupscomplement one each other
really, really well.
So you could do Sarah's programfirst and then come into mine
and work with through food or doit the other way around.
(52:11):
I think either way works reallywell because, uh, depending on
which way you want to go.
Well, thank you for being hereand For being so thoughtful
about this conversation.
I appreciate it.
Thank you for being here andsharing with my audience.
I love it.
You are listening to the ex goodgirl podcast episode 48.
Okay.
This is going to be, uh, a fun,great conversation.
Elizabeth Sherman is you're oneof my favorite people.
Well, you're one of my favoritepeople.
Well, there you go.
I love seeing you.
I love talking to you.
Uh, we're setting thisconversation up so that we can
(00:21):
both release it on our podcast.
Will you please introduceyourself for, uh, my people who
need to know who you are?
Yes.
And then I want you to introduceyourself for my people who need
to know who you are for sure.
Um, I am Elizabeth Sherman.
I am a life and health coach forwomen in midlife.
And I say health coach because Irecently moved from focusing on
(00:44):
weight loss to general health.
Um, and.
We can have a conversation aboutthat, but specifically the woman
that I work with, women inmidlife have so much shiz coming
at them, hormones changing, uh,relationships with their
partner, their family structuresare changing, their kids are
(01:07):
moving out, their relationshipswith friends are changing.
And their partner or theirparents, rather, and their
careers, all of that is comingat them.
And they're also asking, what ismy purpose?
Right?
And that's a lot of what youdeal with, Sarah.
And so I work with women so thattheir health doesn't get in the
(01:31):
way of.
Whatever it is that they want todo in that next phase of life.
Well, you and I have had a lotof conversations because that's
exactly where I am navigating,um, changing hormones, um, and
ADHD diagnosis.
Um, I have all the things you'vesaid changing.
You know, I became a coach five,six years ago.
(01:53):
My older three children haveleft the nest and it does seem
like.
A period of constant change, youknow, things, especially with
health.
So I'm excited to have thisconversation, not just for me,
but you are right.
The women that I work with, Iteach women how to stop people,
(02:13):
pleasing, perfection, aiding,and getting stuck in
codependency.
So that in, at any stage theyare in their life, that is not
getting in their way.
They are not saying yes whenthey mean, no, they are not
abandoning themselves andrelationships, but they're
finding their voice and reallybeing able to show up as, as who
(02:34):
they are.
They know what they want.
They know how to get it.
They know how to show up and bethemselves in the world and
really enjoy that experience.
So I think, I think we're a goodpair for this discussion today.
Well, yeah.
And as you were talking, I wasreally thinking about how I'm
actually kind of on the otherside of menopause.
(02:56):
Like I've made it through.
And I was thinking about, I'vebeen thinking about this a lot
lately about how as youngerwomen, we kind of put on the
brakes, right.
And we put our hands out andwe're like, I don't want to go
through better perimenopause.
I don't want to go throughmidlife.
Like we resist it.
And now that I'm on the otherside, yeah.
And I think because there are somany changes.
(03:19):
However, all of those changesreally create a freedom on the
other side.
So I'm talking to all of thelisteners out there who are
like, Oh, my God, this is likethe worst.
Everything is coming at me rightnow.
Like, look at it.
As a place of growth, because onthe other side, you get to
(03:40):
rediscover what you want.
And if we could band together aswomen in midlife, we could
totally overthrow thepatriarchy.
Like we are the underdogs here.
And so we can completely changewhat midlife means, what it
means to be a midlife woman.
(04:02):
I'm excited.
That it's so interesting becauseI think what stops us.
Is this, this real lack ofknowledge about our bodies, this
lack of, of, you know, this lackof medical knowledge in
professionals.
I mean, I am trying to figureout hormones.
(04:25):
I went to see my primary caredoctor last week and he and I
have enjoyed my relationshipwith him.
I feel like he's a competentdoctor.
He said, well, we'll just putyou on some estrogen and just
kind of see how it goes.
And I said, what do you mean tosee how it goes?
She's like, well, you know,we're just going to have to try
a bunch of things and it just.
(04:48):
This reaction of like, oh, mygosh, there are multiple
medicines out there for men tohave erections.
And there's, it's like, not hitor miss.
It's this.
They know exactly what to do.
It has been the product of allthis research and time spent
into men's pleasure.
And yet.
It just seems like the women'shormone part of things is like
(05:11):
this scattershot approach to,well, let's just throw a bunch
of things at the wall and seewhat sticks.
And meanwhile, the symptoms I'mhaving.
And so the, the lack ofknowledge, first of all, I think
me about my own body, but alsoin the medical world, women's
health and hormones just don't.
(05:32):
Seem to have been given a lot ofairtime so that we have like
real accurate information now.
I think that is changing.
Um, but here I am in thismoment.
So where do you see what areyour thoughts about that?
I just talked a lot.
Yeah, no, no, no.
I have a lot of thoughts aboutthat.
First is that it's important tounderstand that.
(05:56):
Women's bodies were excludedfrom intentionally excluded from
medical research until the 1950sbecause our bodies were
considered to be quote unquote,too complicated with hormones.
So that being said, theirwomen's health is so new still.
(06:16):
And many doctors still functionand I don't want to get too much
into the menopause thing becausewe have other things that we
want to talk about.
But, um, doctors are stillworking off of.
Tests and results that reallyare not current.
So for many women, and I'm sureyourself included, you go to
(06:39):
your doctor and you say, I'mhaving these symptoms and your
doctor kind of blows you off andsays, Oh, it's your normal.
It's just part of midlife oreven more frustrating.
The tests show that you're notin perimenopause or menopause
yet.
So there's nothing I can doabout it.
And so it can feel verydisempowering.
And, um, so we really have along way to go with that.
(07:04):
Uh, and it makes perfect sensebecause men are the ones who are
holding the purse strings whenit comes to medical research and
they're not interested in womenfrom.
At least a biologicalstandpoint, right?
And so they're like women'shormones, who wants to pay for
that?
(07:24):
Right?
And so it's now starting tochange.
However, you know, I used towhen I work with clients on
their hormones.
I used to ask them to talk totheir mothers or their
grandmothers or their answer,you know, whoever in their
family.
But then I started realizing,well, they had even less
information than we do today.
(07:45):
Like your mom probably knewabout hot flashes.
Maybe she knew about insomnia,but like, what did she really
know about her other, there arelike 85 different symptoms of
menopause.
And so that can last over 20years.
(08:06):
So yeah.
And you know, to, to segueprobably into the conversation
that we're going to have, one ofthose symptoms is weight gain.
And so many women will try tofight that symptom of weight
(08:27):
gain through dieting.
Because that's what we knew.
However, women's bodies inmenopause and perimenopause are
very different than they used tobe when they were in, you know,
their thirties or even theirtwenties.
Not to mention that all of thediet, not all it's changing most
(08:48):
of the diet information that wegrew up with, the weight loss
information that we grew up withwas based on studies of college
aged men, women in midlife don'thave the same hormonal balance
as college aged men.
And so what's happening is.
We're trying to do this eatless, move more thing.
(09:09):
And what it's doing is it'screating more stress and
imbalance in our bodies andtherefore throwing our entire
bodies out of whack.
So some women will experiencemore brain fog.
They'll have more, um, uh, therebound effect when it comes to
eating.
Cause you can only eat so muchless.
(09:32):
Um, and cravings will get betteror bigger.
Uh, they're, they'll have moreinsomnia because their body is
stressed out.
And so it really, yeah, I have alot to say.
Yeah, and that's, that's kind ofwhere, right, you know, lands
squarely where I am just in myown personal experience.
(09:54):
So what is the lens throughwhich you look through to kind
of talk about all of this?
Health in particular, weightloss.
Yeah.
So first of all, we kind of haveto back up and really talk about
diet culture because we havegrown up in a country or in a
(10:15):
culture where losing weight isbetter that somehow we have.
Expected that as a 55 year oldwoman, that I should look like I
did when I was 30 years old.
Who decided that?
(10:37):
And so we really need to look atour relationship with food.
We need to look at ourrelationship with our body.
We need to look at patriarchy,that women are taught that
looking good isn't moreimportant than our brains, that
looking good is more importantthan health, that If we're lucky
(11:01):
as young women, we will attracta successful man and men are
taught that if they'resuccessful, they'll attract a,
an attractive woman, right?
And so it's all steeped in thisweird thing of, we need to look
a certain way.
We need to look the way thatsociety expects us to look.
(11:26):
It's so insidious.
I was talking with my husbandabout this very thing, just
that.
A woman, no matter what she saysor does with her life, there's
always the added judgment of herbody.
What she's wearing, whether ornot her physical features line
up with the, you know, kind ofthis socially agreed upon idea
(11:49):
of what beautiful is or isn't.
And I was looking up online forhim, just example after example
of brilliant women criticizedfor wearing the wrong thing.
Smart, articulate women, uh, whohave, you know, their size
mocked.
And.
(12:11):
Because we have just grown up init.
I don't think we realize justhow pervasive the belief is that
our body is bad or wrong.
I love all of the kind oftalking about it that I hear
going on now, but I think thisis kind of where.
(12:32):
Our work intersects and that Ilook at the human, the female
experience, you know, humansocialized as females through
the lens of what creates safetyand belonging when we are
younger, kind of is the obstacleto it when we're older and that
when we're younger, it isessential that we please other
(12:54):
people, right?
Because we can't take care ofourselves.
We need them to care for us,help us nurture us, teach us,
you know, all the things.
But then when we get older,this.
We using aspect or thisperfectionism aspect actually
gets in the way of us livingkind of free life that that we
(13:15):
want and I see our food and bodyobsession the same thing.
In that when we're younger, wecan't really, I mean, what 11
year old girl out there 11 yearsold is when I first have my
first memory of, like, looking,I'm standing in line on the
playground.
I look down at my stomach, I waswearing a purple band T shirt.
(13:36):
I still remember it.
And I was just looking at how mystomach, like, pushed against
the fabric of the shirt.
And I remember looking.
To my left and to my right atother stomachs and like, does
everybody's stomach do this?
Is it just my stomach?
And so you're kind of, we'rekind of raised in this culture
of trying to make our bodieslook like a certain thing, but
(13:58):
then that very.
Pursuit is what gets in the waylater in life of having a
healthy, loving relationshipwith something that we need,
which, which is food.
Just like we need other people.
We also need food.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And not to mention that thereare so many cultures who we give
(14:19):
to the people that we lovethrough food, right?
Mothers will give theirchildren.
If you're feeling sick, what canI do for you?
Do you want chicken soup?
Do you want orange juice?
What can I do for you?
Um, and so, yeah, it totallymakes sense that we have this
balled up relationship with foodand with love and with emotions.
(14:44):
And so, and plus no one reallyteaches us.
How to have a good relationshipwith food.
Maybe if you're lucky, you seeit modeled in your parent.
Um, I think that that canprobably be a little bit more
frequent when we're talkingabout alcohol.
That some people have a healthyrelationship with alcohol
(15:08):
modeled by their parent.
Um, but I think that, you know.
Dieting and food is sointerconnected in our culture
that it's more difficult to seethat in the family structure.
It's interesting.
My mom never once, I never sawher diet.
I never saw her hair like count,you know, I, if, if she ever
(15:34):
went on a diet, I knew nothingabout it.
Um, we didn't talk a lot aboutbody.
So I think our kind of, youknow, it, it swung the other way
where we kind of just didn'ttalk about it.
Um, she never commented on mysize, never, like, I don't
remember one single conversationwith her about.
Uh, being thin or is that beingmore beautiful like it was
(15:58):
almost like it just didn'texist, but still I remember
buying my first dexatrim dietpills, you know, from Fox drugs,
uh, uh, probably 14.
It doesn't, for me, it didn'teven really matter that it
wasn't a part of my conversationwith my mom, but she did use
(16:20):
food as like love.
Let me make you something.
Are you hungry?
Let me feed you.
Um, it's just, it's unavoidable.
It's just the air we breathe.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
Um, and yeah, so for anylisteners out there who have
young children who are like, Iwant to shelter my child from
this.
You can't unfortunately, um,there's actually a really
(16:42):
interesting stat that, uh, Fiji,I think it was, um, did not have
television or at least Americantelevision.
And in 1980 they brought on, Ithink it was Baywatch or
something like that.
And within, I want to say one tothree years.
Many teenage girls starteddieting.
(17:04):
So we see it on TV.
We see it in our culture.
It's almost impossible to avoid.
So yeah.
So the conversation that you andI are trying to have is not
exhaustive or authoritative, butit's what we have found to be
helpful as we're talking abouthealthy relationship with food.
(17:29):
Thank you.
And healthy just means it's onethat you like the results of.
Like that, that is my definitionof healthy when you have a
relationship and you look at theresults and you like the results
of that.
I think that's healthy.
How do you define healthy?
Well, so first of all, I thinkit's important to say that there
are no good foods and bad foods.
(17:50):
We've been taught that there aregood and bad foods that, um,
brownies are somehow bad andthat broccoli is good.
When we think about good foods,we think of broccoli, chicken
breasts.
Spinach, all of those things.
And then when we think of badfoods, we think of French fries
and pizza and everything that'sdesirable, right?
(18:12):
Everything that we've also hasbeen marketed to us as being,
um, fun foods, right?
So like going to a party and youhave pizza or you have burgers
at, you know, cookouts andthings like that.
So, what I think is actuallyreally important and what my
(18:33):
clients really struggle withwhen we first talk about food is
the idea that Brownies areactually the same as broccoli
and they're like, but Elizabeth,that can't possibly be true that
if brownies are the same asbroccoli, then I'm going to eat
brownies all the time.
And no, you're not because youcan have one brownie and then
(18:57):
two brownies.
And then after a certain point,you're not going to feel good
anymore and you're going tostart to crave the broccoli.
And so it's really about.
Understanding how much of eachof these foods does my body need
in order to feel good movingforward.
(19:20):
And so as we move into midlife,we start to notice that
different foods make us feeldifferently.
So if you have broccoli, or I'msorry, brownies, before you go
to bed, you might notice thatyou have trouble sleeping.
Definitely I notice withalcohol.
How about you?
Uh, yeah, I, it ruins me, itruins my sleep for sure.
(19:44):
Yeah.
And so when we can approach foodfrom the standpoint of what
makes me feel good, not in themoment, but In an hour, in two
hours, tomorrow, next week, nextmonth, then we can start to
build the relationship with foodthat we want.
(20:05):
And I love your, your analogy offood relationship.
Can you share that?
Yeah.
Uh, I think it's exactly thesame with people, like how much
of a certain person is good forme.
How much of a certain activityis good for me?
People pleasers get reallycaught up in doing a lot of
(20:27):
things for a lot of people allthe time as a way of being
valuable, earning love, feelingconnected and feeling safe.
And that makes a lot of sensebecause that's what we were
taught to do.
But when we come into adulthoodand we have some more control
over.
The circumstances in our lifewhere we live our work, you
know, being financially, um,independent.
(20:51):
That is a fantastic time tostart looking at the amount of
time that I spend with certainpeople that maybe it doesn't
make me feel good.
It's like eating nothing butbrownies all day.
I go to bed and I feel gross.
I feel heavy.
I feel sad.
I feel, uh, it, you know,disconnected from me because
(21:11):
I've given so much of myself tothem.
And so I like looking at myrelationship with food exactly
like I look at my relationshipwith people in my life.
How much of this person is goodfor me under what circumstances.
Sometimes I might have a lotmore availability if it's
somebody that I want arelationship with, and I can
(21:34):
have more of them.
And sometimes I need less likeboundaries around.
Um, and and limitations can befor me just as much as.
Um, we're kind of taught to, tosee kind of boundaries and
limitations as negativesometimes, like having
boundaries about what I say yesto who I say yes to.
(21:57):
I think there's a lot ofcorrelation there with food.
Absolutely.
Like I'm just thinking of peoplein my life and there are people
who I go to when I want to feelaccepted and listened to and
cradled.
But I can't spend all of my timewith those people because it's a
little too intense.
(22:18):
And then I have people that I goto when I just want to blow off
steam.
They're kind of like the candy.
Right.
And they're not like, I mean,they're good friends, but I know
that I'm not going to call themat three o'clock in the morning
when I need to go to thehospital.
Right.
Or if you're on the side of aroad or something like that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And so, but you need thosepeople in your life and neither
(22:39):
are good and neither are bad.
Right.
And I, uh, absolutely right.
And I think for me, knowing whatthat is has come from first
learning to listen to myself.
I think for a long time I usedfood to not listen to myself.
(22:59):
I used food to turn offuncomfortable emotions.
I used food to distract myselfFrom hard situations, and I
think I even used food to kindof keep myself.
Numbed, um, from, from thi fromthings, you know, that, that
were happening.
(23:20):
There was a period of time in mymarriage where it was really,
really difficult and I rememberI made microwave s'mores.
I would, Mike put a grahamcracker, a marshmallow, and I
was sticking in the microwave.
'cause who wants to build a firefor one s'more and.
Stick some chocolate in it wouldget all nice and melty and I
would eat three or four micros'mores a day just to have like
(23:44):
something good, something sweet,something satisfying, because it
didn't feel like anything elsewas.
And the first thing that I hadto do to just figure out what do
I want in my life is to come tomyself first.
And start listening to me, andthat is a hard thing to do in a,
(24:08):
in a culture and society thatdoesn't teach girls to do that.
It teaches them to listen toeverybody outside of themselves.
Um, so that's kind of where Ifeel like things shifted or
changed for me.
What about you?
Yeah.
So I, I have this saying thatlike, if food is the best part
of your day, we need to fix yourday, right?
(24:32):
Because so many of us have, Iused to run to food all the
time.
And I remember when our coachsaid, I can take the desire for
food away from you.
I was like, I don't know if Iwant that, but it's so
fascinating now being on theother side of that, where a
cookie is like, I am one ofthose people now.
(24:54):
I never thought that I thoughtthat you were born with the
ability to eat just one cookie.
I didn't know that it wassomething that you could learn.
And so to be able to do that,because the rest of my life is
actually so much more joyous.
Like that food isn't the partthat I look the most forward to,
(25:15):
but I had the, a very similarexperience as you did that I, my
mom was an emotional eater.
And so that's what I saw.
I witnessed her like.
Emotionally eating.
And so that's what I grew upwith.
Yeah, and we're never going toget rid of emotional eating.
(25:37):
What I think that most of uswant to do is we want to stop
the unconscious emotional eatingor the feeling like I don't know
what was happening with you,whether you were conscious about
eating those s'mores or not.
But.
Not having the craving where itfeels like that is overtaking
(25:58):
your ability to make a gooddecision.
Yeah, absolutely.
And, and I think, I mean, if,if, if I could kind of go back
and talk to myself, I would say,like, Sarah, you are using food
to try and fix problems thatfood won't fix.
(26:20):
So what is the actual problemhere?
The actual problem is I don'tknow how to tell my husband how
I'm feeling because I don'treally know how I'm feeling.
It's just this angry, sad.
You know, happy mixture that Idon't really know very well.
And so having a s'more, which atthe time I don't, I have zero
(26:42):
judgment about that.
And I have zero judgment nowwhen I turn to food because I
want, you know, to feelsomething good now.
What I do instead is I just knowthat I need to just come back to
me.
What's happening here?
Is it a problem?
Food will fix even if the foodtastes good and I still want to
(27:02):
eat it.
I, I have no problem with thatbecause what I've gotten so much
better at is listening to theemotional side of my experience,
what my emotions are trying totell me the information that
they have for me.
And I know that I'm going to doboth.
I'm going to have the cookie ifI want the cookie, and I'm going
to address this.
(27:23):
Transcribed The pain or thesadness or the loneliness.
Um, I think when, when my 3older kids who have, you know,
since moved away and they'reworking and going to school, I
was.
I have, I had a lot of sadnessthat, um, that I think was
wrapped up in some of the eatingthat I was doing and just
(27:44):
befriending my emotions has beenthe thing that has given me the
compass to know, is thissomething that I'm trying to
solve with food?
Do I want the, do I want acookie if so fine, but I also
need to just listen to what mybody is trying to tell me.
(28:06):
Yeah, like I spent most of myyoung adult life completely
numb.
I prided myself on the fact thatI wasn't a crier.
And since I've been in your StopPeople Pleasing program, I have
found myself crying so much, um,which we could talk about later.
(28:27):
But I realized that I was tryingto cut out the negative emotions
through eating or denying them.
And it, when I started waking upto the fact that I had emotions,
they were such a tight, tight.
Tangled, but bundle can't say itof emotions.
(28:48):
I was like, I don't even knowwhat I'm feeling like.
My brain was completely goingoffline and I felt frustrated
and angry and I would explode.
I would react instead of respondand that was right around the
time that I realized, okay,something is wrong here.
I need to figure this out and itwas actually quite around the
(29:08):
time that I started.
Um, paying attention to why wasI eating?
And really asking myself, okay,so I want to eat, I'm, I'm
standing in the pantry right nowlooking for food.
I'm not hungry.
What am I feeling?
Why am I here?
Is it because of the time ofday?
Is it because I'm feeling anemotion?
(29:30):
What is actually happening rightnow?
And so it's taken me a littlebit to get to where you are
with, um, accepting and loving.
each emotion, but at least theawareness piece was super
important for me.
Awareness is just where it'slike such a, such a self
(29:54):
investigative process.
I love.
Uh, Glennon Doyle says, youknow, you're both the detective
and the mystery.
You know, you're, you're, youare the mystery that you're
trying to also figure out and,and unraveling, I think
ourselves is such a beautifullyIt's such, it's such a beautiful
(30:16):
process where it's like aroundwhat I have found for myself is
that around every corner.
I am, I'm endlessly fascinatingwhy I do what I do.
I think what I think.
And as I have given that someair time, and as I have stopped
at the same time, I think it's akind of a two step process
(30:37):
stopping the judgment.
I used to beat myself upendlessly for what I would eat
or what I would not eat.
I think that's common and tostop that judgment voice at the
same time is increasingawareness and to just.
Fully, um, understand if notlove, like, Oh, I'm sad because
(30:59):
I, um, this happened justyesterday.
I gave my son a haircut.
Uh, he didn't like it.
Uh, he thought I had messed itup.
I felt the surge of anger.
Um, and then I thought, why am Igetting angry at this?
15 year old kid.
It's because I don't want to betold that I did something wrong,
(31:20):
right?
It's, it's sensitivity to beingtold that I'm wrong, even about
a haircut and then not wantinghim to go to school and be
embarrassed that his mom cut hishair wrong.
Like, you know, that the storythat we tell.
And so I love the process ofcoming to ourselves with this
openness about who we are andwhy we feel what we feel,
because one of the things thatwe do get to unravel is.
(31:43):
Why am I eating what I'm eatingif it has nothing to do with
solving this actual problem andfor me health, you know, you can
be healthy at any size.
There's actual, there's anactual mountain of data called
the health at any size movementthat has nothing to do with the
number on the scale.
But what I find health to beabout is knowing my boundaries
(32:06):
and limitations with people.
With activities with service,you know, I've as women, we've
really been socialized to giveand give and give and give and
give and to include food in thatboundaries limitations that are
for me has really just been agame changer in terms of how we
(32:26):
look at food.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And you know, one of the thingsthat, um, one of the arguments
against health with any size isthat we decouple or we couple
rather, um, that your size is adirect reflection of your.
(32:47):
Uh, your health.
And that's actually not true.
And what's actually moreimportant is not so much your
size, but what it is that youare eating.
So one example of that is thatdairy products can cause knee
pain.
And so oftentimes people willsay, well, if I lose weight,
(33:10):
then I will stop.
The knee pain.
Well, maybe all we need to do ischange your diet so that you're
eating foods that aren't causinginflammation in your body.
Now that may relate to a lowerweight, but it might not.
And so something that we weretalking about earlier was that
(33:33):
I'm trying to lose weight for myhealth.
Is a very trendy new way ofsaying, I want to lose weight
and how we know that that's alie is if you don't lose weight,
but you do change your diet andyou start exercising and
sleeping well and doing all ofthe things that are good at that
(33:55):
make you feel good, but youdon't lose any weight and you're
still frustrated.
Then we know that there'ssomething else going on there,
right?
Yeah.
Or if you do, you know, losesome weight and it doesn't feel
like enough, or if you do getyour health numbers, I, I do
think it matters to payattention to a one C and blood
(34:18):
glucose and, and, and to avoiddiabetes.
But if you avoid that and youstill want to keep tweaking and
doing things, or.
You know, if you do lose someweight and you just find other
things about your body that youwant to fix or change, I think
it, it's just kind of this neverending.
If you are going to be lookingoutside of yourself for the, the
(34:42):
markers of what is beautiful,what is sexy, what is, what
looks good.
It is a never ending, um, merrygo round of new, new ideas.
And so.
I think coming home and cominginternal is really the only
unchanging experience that wecan create for ourselves that we
(35:04):
can trust because I now knowwhat feels good in my body.
I now know what food feels goodin my body.
I now know what, um, whensomething is quote unquote off,
right?
And maybe it's something that Iate.
Maybe it's how I'm feeling.
I know how to distinguish.
The 2 and that means I have, uh,I have the, the, the quote
(35:29):
unquote problem, the rightproblem to solve the right.
It's not even a problem.
Like, I just, I know what issueto work on.
I keep having more words thatjust make it sound like it's
bad, but see, I don't consideremotions bad.
So if I'm angry, I just need tolet myself be angry and process
my anger.
I don't think it's a problem.
If I want a brownie, I just needto eat a brownie and.
(35:51):
The judge dropping the judgmenthas helped it become such a
process of all my own that itfeels so distinct from looking
outside of me.
What do you think I should eat?
How do you think my body shouldlook?
Do you think I'm pretty?
Do you think I'm skinny enough?
It just, it's a completelydifferent experience.
(36:14):
And something that you mentionedearlier that I just want to come
back to is.
Something that's been reallyhelpful in your program Stop
People Pleasing has been wakingup to what it is that I want,
because so many women, we don'tknow what we want, and we don't
know why we make the decisionsthat we do make.
(36:35):
We're not really clued intothat.
And so I think that waking up tothat.
And really asking myself, why doI make the decisions that I do
when it comes to food or even mybody and what I'm going to wear
(36:55):
or how I'm going to style myhair or any of it.
Can be so revealing.
And do you like your reasons fordoing that?
Yeah.
It's something we never stoppedto do is investigate our reasons
and make sure we like them.
What, um, what has, what havebeen the big things for you in
(37:18):
the stop people pleasingprogram?
I think that that is the biggestone.
Like, what is it that I reallywant?
And I, you know, it's sointeresting because.
I realized, so I have a coupleof podcasts episodes already,
um, that are about peoplepleasing and eating.
(37:39):
And I realized a while ago,before I started coaching, or
when I was in the middle ofcoaching that In my journey to
improve my relationship withfood that I really had to
advocate for myself when it cameto what it was that I wanted to
eat.
And I think that so many womendon't do that.
(38:01):
Um, that they want to beconsidered low maintenance.
At least I know that I did, thatI felt like I should be able to
eat like a 13 year old boy andat the same time have the body
of a Victoria's secret model.
And then I got resentful with mybody when it wasn't doing what
it was quote unquote supposed todo, which was be lean and
(38:23):
beautiful and everything else.
But I've now been able to takethat.
What do I want and apply it toall the other areas of my life.
Um, and even like my businessand in my relationship with my
partner, like just those littletiny things that we're like, Oh,
(38:45):
it's not that big of a deal, butin the grand scheme of things,
it becomes a big deal.
Right.
So that's been huge.
And, and the big deal is.
Knowing who you are and what youwant and how to get more of that
in your life.
I that I think because of allthe changes that happen in
(39:09):
midlife, especially if.
You are a woman who has hadchildren, uh, if you are a woman
who has had even like a, acareer that has taken a lot of
your time and attention whenthose things start to shift and
change the most common thing Ihear from women who have had
children or going through careerchanges without.
(39:30):
Their career with the children.
I don't even know who I am.
Like, that's just what I do allday.
I don't even know what I want.
I don't even know who, what mypreferences are.
What would I do with a day off?
You know, what are my hobbies?
What do I enjoy?
And so I think you're right thatwho am I and what do I want?
(39:52):
That is a question that seems sofundamental.
A lot of us don't know.
Well, that's because we're toldby society what we are supposed
to be.
We are supposed to be nice.
We're supposed to be the goodmother, the good daughter, the
good employee, the good boss.
Like we're supposed to exist forother people.
Like I hate the oxygen maskanalogy because it tells us that
(40:16):
we have to put our own oxygenmask on.
We have to be healthy.
We can help other people behealthy, but no, you are a
living human being that exists.
And so you deserve self care.
Like think about the way thatyou think about yourself.
(40:37):
If your daughter were to thinkabout that way, herself that
way, it would break your heart.
So you deserve what it is thatyou want because.
You do.
You are worthy.
Yeah.
What is something that feelspossible for you now that didn't
(40:59):
feel possible before being inStop People Pleasing?
Oh, um, um, so, you know, I havebeen on this Stop People
Pleasing journey for actually acouple of years now.
Like, being in the program has,has, Like, I, I started my own
(41:23):
journey, gosh, I think it wasabout two years ago, um, when I
didn't want, I'll just say itmen to hug me when I didn't want
to be hugged.
You know, like when you'releaving a party and you're
saying goodbye and people arelike, Oh, let me hug you and
kiss you.
I'm like, no, like I just, I'mnot a hugger anyway, but then to
(41:47):
have this weird.
Man, do it just like reallygross me out.
And so that was my foray intostopping people pleasing.
And so what it's really given meis the ability to not feel bad,
to not take on other people'semotions, to really, um, we
(42:12):
talked about enmeshment, soreally.
D mesh myself from otherpeople's emotions.
I don't know how to say that.
Yeah.
Like not taking other people'sreactions as my problem.
And so, And I think it should bementioned, you live in a place
where hugging and kissing is acultural expectation, right?
(42:37):
It's not just, it's not, youknow, it's not just a few
weirdos doing it.
It's everyone who, because it'spart of the, the culture where
you live.
And so I love that you said tonot.
To not take on that, thereactions of other people as
something about you.
(42:58):
That's a hard skill as, assomeone socializes a woman and
especially in a place where it'sjust such a part of the culture.
Yeah.
It's, it's really beenempowering because, and you
know, ultimately there are a lotof people who are like, yeah, go
you.
(43:18):
And there are some that don'tget it.
That's okay.
Maybe eventually they will.
I'm, I'm willing to wait.
What I love is just deciding foryourself.
This is what I want, or this iswhat I do not want.
And just because I want it ordon't want it is enough.
(43:41):
Well, and I think that it's alsoreally important, especially if
there's anyone listening who haskids who they're like, well, I
can't have what I want because Ihave to take care of these
little people in my house.
And it's not about saying thisis what I want and then being
selfish.
It's just acknowledging thatthis is what I want.
(44:05):
And this is what I want for thepeople that I love.
So two questions that I reallylike to ask within my practice
is, What would you do if youloved yourself?
And then how do I want to showup in this relationship and why
those two questions areimportant is because how what
(44:26):
would I do if I loved myself atleast answers the question of
what do I want and then how do Iwant to show up in the
relationship answers thequestion of.
How do I want to show love forthe people that I'm in
relationship with?
I love, I love that you put itthat way.
(44:47):
When I talk to women, you know,typically their kids needs are
higher than their needs.
Like, uh, you can't see me, butmy left hand is, is high.
And then my right hand is aboutsix inches below.
And that's the typicalrelationship in which most
women's needs exist relative toother people's needs.
And when I talk about not peoplepleasing anymore.
(45:09):
Many women think that I'msuggesting their needs go over
everyone else's and that theirneeds are more important than
everyone else's.
And it kind of activates thisfear of being called selfish,
which is the worst thing that awoman can be.
And what I'm advocating is.
Equal, right?
That, that, that my needs arenot more important than yours.
(45:32):
Not less important either.
Sometimes I choose me.
Sometimes I choose you.
And I think there's, there'ssome really great analogy to
food there too, is like all foodis just food.
There's not good food.
There's not bad food.
Sometimes I choose a brownie.
Sometimes I choose broccoli whenI like my reasons.
And I know what.
What that what those reasonsare.
(45:53):
I think the same thing appliesto relationships when we're
really learning to eliminate thetype of pleasing that we don't
like the results of it'sinvestigating our reasons and
then being willing to feel theuncomfortable emotion as you
have had to feel when youdecline the hug and kiss when
(46:13):
it's culturally expected.
Yeah, there's some there's somediscomfort there that you have
to sit with.
Because it's consistent withwhat you want, though, so the
price is worth it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And, you know, we were talkingon another conversation about
the different layers that peoplepleasing and food get
intermixed.
(46:34):
And I think that what happens iswhen we abandon ourselves so
frequently and we don't giveourselves what we need, we
actually end up doing that inunhelpful ways.
And one of the ways that we dothat.
Goes back to the, if food is thebest part of your day, you have
to, we need to fix your day ismaybe some asking for what you
(46:58):
want so that you don't have torun to food in order to get it.
Like I think about, you know,having a holiday party and then
you're in the kitchen alonecleaning up and you're like, Oh
my God, I just have the last.
I need five minutes to myself.
And as you're in there, you'rejust like devouring the carrot
(47:20):
cake that you had for dinner.
And then you feel terrible aboutit because you know, it wasn't
what you planned or what youwanted to do.
Right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And so often we don't advocatefor ourselves.
And so we run to food in orderto fix that need.
Yeah.
When, what we need is somebodyelse to get their ass in here
(47:41):
and help with these dishesbecause this is not my job to do
the dishes for, for everyone.
So yeah, I love the, um, all thedifferent ways that just knowing
ourselves better opens up morepossibilities.
And I have so appreciated, uh,your willingness to, to have
this conversation with me today.
(48:02):
Is there anything that we didn'ttouch on that you really want to
make sure gets said?
There's one thing that Iactually want to talk about as
far as people pleasing goes andhormones that we didn't, uh,
touch on.
Um, and I'm going to ask you todo the same thing.
So think about that while I'mtalking.
So I'm sure Sarah, that you haveso many women in midlife coming
(48:25):
to you.
And for anyone who's listening,who is in that perimenopause
menopause time, um, I want youto be aware that your ability to
give an F is physiological.
It's not just something thathappens to women.
(48:48):
So.
As women, when we're younger, wehave higher levels of estrogen.
Estrogen actually makes us nice.
And so as younger women, it'sreally important that we are
nice and people pleasing becausewe need to reproduce.
And so we need to find someonewho wants to reproduce with us.
(49:13):
As we get older, out ofreproductive years, our estrogen
levels drop.
And when our estrogen levelsdrop, we are less tolerant of
other people's BS.
And so, I think it's just reallyimportant for everyone listening
to understand that If you are atthat stage where you're like, I
(49:36):
just cannot deal with all ofthis stuff anymore.
I need some for me.
You are not alone.
Like this is a physiologicalresponse.
And I think that's hilarious andtracks.
Yes.
And I also think that that justknowing, knowing how we're
(50:00):
programmed for our biology is soimportant and also finding the
freedom in that biologicalprogramming to still have the
experience that we want to have,whether it's not people pleasing
anymore, not getting so stuckand whether or not something is
perfect or working out arelationship with food that
(50:20):
feels Loving and like it caresfor us.
We can celebrate with food whenwe, I mean, I love food when,
you know, when we want to havelike a great meal, we can have
it and that we know and like ourreasons.
I think it's just, it's such agift that that coaching offers
us in general.
So I, I really appreciate youbeing willing to have this
(50:43):
conversation and.
I just think you're fantasticand so are you, Sarah, you work
with folks one on one and inyour group.
Is that correct?
Is any other people can workwith you?
No, that's uh, I take due totake clients one on one.
The next stop people pleasinggroup starts the week of
(51:04):
February 8th.
And people can learn more aboutthat by finding me on social
media, uh, Instagram, Sarah fistcoaching and checking out the
link in my bio there.
What about for you?
And don't forget you have yourpodcast, which is called the
track good girl.
Yes.
I'm the host of the X good girlpodcast.
Yes.
Elizabeth, tell people in yourpodcast and where to find you.
(51:26):
Yeah.
So my podcast has recentlyrebranded.
It used to be called done withdieting and now it's called
total health and midlife withElizabeth Sherman.
And And, um, I, you can find meon social at Elizabeth dot
Sherman dot coach and Instagramand total health by Eliz on
Facebook.
And then, um, let's see, mywebsite is Elizabeth Sherman.
(51:48):
com.
I work with folks one on one andwith group and, you know, Since
I have visibility into my group,as well as your group, I think
that actually our groupscomplement one each other
really, really well.
So you could do Sarah's programfirst and then come into mine
and work with through food or doit the other way around.
(52:11):
I think either way works reallywell because, uh, depending on
which way you want to go.
Well, thank you for being hereand For being so thoughtful
about this conversation.
I appreciate it.
Thank you for being here andsharing with my audience.
I love it.
Popular Podcasts
1. Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.
2. The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.
3. Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations.