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March 6, 2024 42 mins

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Maggie Reyes is a wonderful marriage coach who I had the honor of having as a coach myself. Maggie helped me get to another version of my marriage that has been just so delightful. She has a podcast called “The Marriage Life Coach Podcast.” Maggie’s double-certified as both a Life Coach and a Sex, Love and Relationship coach by two of the most innovative thinkers and teachers in the self development industry: Brooke Castillo and Layla Martin. She also graduated from The Life Coach School (LCS) in 2012 as Certified Professional Life Coach. 

Back in the day, marriage used to be a business transaction. Now, we're flipping the script and finding liberation through our relationships. We can be the leaders of the relationships that we want to have. Ask yourself: "If we were equal partners, what would that look like?" Say to yourself: "I matter." Feeling freedom of expression in our relationships is essential.

Can't wait for you to listen.

Find Maggie here:
https://maggiereyes.com/
https://www.instagram.com/themaggiereyes/
https://www.facebook.com/TheMaggieReyes
Download Maggie’s Free 5 Power Questions Every Woman Should Know :
https://learn.maggiereyes.com/powerquestions

Find Sara here:
https://sarafisk.coach
https://www.instagram.com/sarafiskcoach/
https://www.facebook.com/SaraFiskCoaching/
https://www.youtube.com/@sarafiskcoaching1333
https://www.tiktok.com/@sarafiskcoach
What happens inside the free Stop People Pleasing Facebook Community? Our goal is to provide help and guidance on your journey to eliminate people pleasing and perfectionism from your life. We heal best in a safe community where we can grow and learn together and celebrate and encourage each other. This group is for posting questions about or experiences with material learned in The Ex-Good Girl podcast, Sara Fisk Coaching social media posts or the free webinars and trainings provided by Sara Fisk Coaching. See you inside!
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Episode Transcript

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(00:00):
You are listening to the ex goodgirl podcast, episode 57.
Okay, here we go with aconversation that I have been
excited to have for a long time,not only because I love and
adore you, Maggie, but becauseyou have been my coach.
You helped me get to anotherversion of my marriage that has

(00:20):
been just so delightful.
And And I find the way that youthink about marriage and the
things that you teach to just beso helpful and so, um, life
changing for me.
And I've just have been soexcited to offer you to the
people who listen to thispodcast.
Thank you for having me.
I'm so excited.

(00:40):
I love you so much.
Let's do it.
Let's do it.
Um, how, tell me how you thinkabout marriage in terms of you
and I are both graduates of theAdvanced Certification in
Feminist Coaching that CaraLowenthal, um, does, how, tell

(01:02):
me how you think about marriagein general.
So that's so interesting becauseI love that you mentioned that
the feminist training becausethe way that I coach marriage
has fundamentally shifted once Ihad a better understanding of
the cultural narratives that weswim in.
And I think how I think aboutmarriage has shifted because of
that as well.

(01:22):
So, um, how I think aboutmarriage now is.
For me, I think it's one ofthose labs of life where you can
grow so much as a human.
You can have so many amazingexperiences.
You can heal so many things.
Um, And so that's one of thethings I love about being
married.
I also think if you're going tobe married, have a good one.

(01:43):
Like, not everybody needs to bemarried, and if you don't want
to be married, that's no problemat all.
Like, I'm all about choosingwhat works for each individual.
Um, but if you want to staymarried, it's like, how can we
make that, like you said, moredelightful?
How can we make that, um,something that works for you?
So after doing the feministcoaching training, my thought
about it is What if we usedmarriage as a tool for

(02:07):
liberation for women, wherethey're no longer a business
transaction, right?
So back in the day, marriage wasa business transaction.
I'll give you two cows and thisplot of land, you know, okay,
I'll take your daughter.
You know, that's like how itwas.
And so now it's like, what if wetake marriage and we own it?

(02:27):
And we create marriages thatwork for us, with our values,
with our needs, with With usbeing, you know, um, leaders of
the relationships that we wantto have.
So I have lots of thoughts aboutmarriage.
That's just a few of them.
Well, that's the, exactly theconversation I want to have
today.
When you said, how do we usemarriage as a tool for

(02:47):
liberation?
I got the chills because I feellike that is what my marriage
has become and.
Um, some of that is so directlyrelated to you coaching me and
some of it is related to medoing really uncomfortable work.
Yes.

(03:07):
So how, if you were going towalk someone through who just
also got the chills listening tous talk about, you know,
marriage is a tool forliberation.
Yeah.
Where would they start?
I would say, um, I teach acommunication framework called
soul centered communication andinside.
Yes, you do.
Yes, they do.
So it's our favorite.

(03:28):
We both love it.
Um, and inside that framework,there's, uh, being loving.
And when we're in a conversationwith someone, how could we be
loving to ourselves and theother person?
And so many of the peoplelistening to this podcast right
now are really used toprioritizing everybody else in
their lives.
Other people, other projects,other things, pets, even above

(03:52):
themselves.
Right?
And how do we use a relation,any relationship, whether you're
in a marriage structure or not,how do we use it as a tool for
liberation?
We start with making ourselvesequal to the other people in the
relationship.
That's where we start.
I'm not more important than you.
That's the feminist part.
I'm not more important.

(04:12):
I'm not less important.
I'm just equally as important.
And if that was true, that I wasequally as important, then how
would I approach Thisinvitation, this request,
whatever's in front of me rightnow, that is the simplest, in my
opinion, the simplest place tostart.
Now, when we say that tosomeone, they're like, well,

(04:33):
what do you mean?
Like, how do I do that?
Right.
And this is why the wholepodcast exists and why your
program exists, why my programexists.
It's like, okay, the first thingis you have the thought.
I matter.
I matter.
If I matter.
Do my fears matter, do myhesitations matter, do my
desires matter?

(04:54):
The answer is yes, yes, and yes.
I love that so much because itmirrors exactly what I teach
about, and again, you know,people pleasing plays out in our
relationships.
If we're not in a relationship,there is, there's no one else to
please.
Right.
And so most women.
Like you said, they livesubordinate to all of the other

(05:18):
relationships in their life.
I love that you said pets, evenpets, and they think that when I
say stop people pleasing, I meanthat they are going to be
superior to everyone else andthat type of, um, Relationship
organization is, is repellent tothem because they think that's

(05:39):
selfish.
That's, that's not what I want.
And that's not what we'retalking about, but what does
equality look like where myneeds and wants matter just as
much as yours.
And sometimes I choose me andsometimes I choose you and I
need to do is like reallyunderstand my reasons.
And so I just love if we wereequal.

(05:59):
Yeah.
This is a fantastic question toask yourself.
Yeah.
If you're listening to thispodcast, if we were equal
partners, What would that looklike with this situation, this
need, this want, this fear, thishesitation?
So good.
After that, what should they belooking for or, um, in terms of
liberation?

(06:20):
Once you're equal, then what?
I would say I'm veryindividualistic in my approach.
So when I use a word likeliberation, like you could have
20 people in a room with us andeverybody's definition of that
would be.
So I really love likedefinitions.
Like what would it feel like toyou?
What does it feel like to youwhen you're oppressed or not

(06:42):
self expressed when you feelthat there's a part of you that
isn't welcome, or there's a partof you that isn't, um, being,
you know.
Expressed really on a day to daybasis in your life, that would
be like personal oppression,right?
We're not talking about societaloppression in this moment.
We're talking about in what waysam I cutting myself off from

(07:03):
different parts of me because Ifeel like it would be dangerous
to share those parts of me.
So we want to just define that,like what part of me am I not
sharing?
Right?
So, to understand then, if I wasliberated, if I was free, if I
had freedom of expression, ifthat was available to me, then
what would that look like?
What would be different?

(07:24):
What, what would I do?
How would I prioritize my day?
What would I, um, do on theweekends?
What would I ask for?
What would I say no to?
What would I say yes to?
Right?
And people can be listening tome and thinking really lofty
thoughts.
This is like on the day to day,like I'm going to give you an
example of something thatliterally happened this weekend,
because I want people to reallyunderstand this is your day to

(07:45):
day.
This isn't like, like, yes, welove going on the marches and
doing the things and all that,but this isn't about that.
This is about, like, your mostintimate moments and how you
manage them.
So, my husband loves theRenaissance Fair.
It comes every year.
He loves it, right?

(08:05):
I do not.
And he asked me to go.
And I said yes.
And then I really didn't want togo.
And I started crying.
And I didn't even know why I wascrying.
I'm in this season where I cryvery easily about a lot of
things.
So I started crying.
And then I'm like, what is goingon here?

(08:28):
And we had the most beautifulconversation where I told him, I
said, there's a part of me thatreally doesn't want to
disappoint you.
Right?
There's a part of me that knowsit means a lot to you to share
this experience with me.
But what I'm noticing is I don'tthink I'm looking forward to the
experience and I don't thinkit's gonna be what we both think
it'll be.
If I'm not having fun, it willdiminish your fun.

(08:50):
And he was like, oh that makesso much sense.
He's like, you know, I couldjust go by myself.
Like you don't even have to gowith me.
So sometimes, for everyonelistening, we people please,
even when the other personDoesn't care.
That is so good.
Right?
So this just happened.
This is not like a theoreticalexercise.
Like this just happened.
So we had this beautifulconversation and he was so

(09:12):
gracious and so loving.
And he just said, What if youjust don't go?
Right?
And I was like, yeah, maybe ILet me check in with myself.
Is there any part of me thatwants to go?
The only part of me that wantedto go was the part of me that
didn't want to disappoint him.
And I honor that part.
That's relevant, right?
But I really was like, I think Ineed to just rest.

(09:32):
And he went.
Right?
Because one of my things aboutwhat If I'm liberated in my
marriage, then so should he be.
Sometimes we forget that part.
We get so excited.
We're like, no, we just wantthem to do everything the way we
want.
That's the superior part wherewe're like, Oh, let's, let's
just do my liberation.
Let's just do mine.
Right.
And so it's like, I, I'm like, Ithink you'd love it so much.

(09:53):
And he loves doing things likehe was fine going by himself and
he had a great time.
And then I stayed home and themost amazing magical thing
happened is a friend of mine Ihadn't talked to in months was
going through a thing.
And, and called me and weliterally talked for like three
hours.
We had a whole visit.
Right?
Wow.
And that never would havehappened if I wouldn't have

(10:15):
been, you know, if I, if Iwouldn't have just trusted my
body, trusted my know.
So what do I think is part ofliberation is having a yes and a
no.
And having access to both andthat I hope that example gives
gives you something like areally real life.
Like that's what it's like on aday to day basis.

(10:37):
It does.
And I really just want to slowdown and let people like replay
in their minds what you did.
Like, there's a part of me thatreally does not want to
disappoint you.
There's a part of me that feelsreally nervous that you might be
upset.
That I agreed to this thing.
And I said, yes, and maybe evenwe bought a ticket and we made,

(11:00):
yeah, make all made all theseplans to go.
And yet when I actually tuneinto my body and the experience
that I'm having now, somethingdoesn't fit.
I just, I love that you saidthat over or over something as.
As possibly inconsequential asthe renaissance fair, right?
It, because I can imagine thatin the minds of a lot of the

(11:22):
people listening, that is one ofthe hardest situations that they
have is I'm not a solid ahundred percent.
No, never.
I never wanted, but like there'sparts of me, part of me doesn't
want to disappoint you.
Part of me does part of me wantsto spend time with you.
Part of me wants to be in mybed, in my pajamas or whatever,

(11:42):
you know, and just recognizing.
All of that is such acomplicated, nuanced thing that
requires that we slow down andreally pay attention to
ourselves.
And I do want to say this isthat in my relationship, you
know, we talk about these thingsall the time.
It's very commonplace for us tohave conversations like this.

(12:03):
And I know some of you listeningare going to have thoughts.
Like, but my partner wouldn'treact that way.
My partner would make me go, ormy partner would whatever.
And I just want to say, when westop people pleasing, I'm sure
Sarah has said this a milliontimes.
There will be people who will bedisappointed and will say, no, I
want you to be like how you usedto be last year when you said
yes to everything all the time.

(12:24):
So I really want to acknowledgethat it feels really hard, even
for me, even when it waswelcome.
Like, even when it was welcome,it still felt really hard to
say.
And I, I just don't want to skipover that part that when it's
not welcome, it can feel twiceas hard.
And that's why you listen to thepodcast, you practice in little

(12:48):
steps, you practice it withpeople where it does feel safer.
Like you go on a, on a step bystep journey to build the
resilience to be able to handle.
Especially someone who deeplyloves disappointment.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I often say and feel myself thatdisappointing people we love,

(13:12):
that's tough.
Whether it's, you know, parents,whether it's family of origin,
partners, children, those areoften the most difficult
situations in which to reallymake friends with the fact that
we're going to be disappointing.
Or we're just going toconstantly be self abandoning.
And I think, let's talk aboutthis, Sarah.
I would love to hear yourthoughts about this.

(13:34):
I think self abandoning is agreat way to describe it because
it's, we're, we're, we're nottaking care, like exquisitely
powerful care of ourselves.
And I want to remove like all ornothing thinking from it.
Cause I think some people hearthat.
And I think it's such a, I'vebeen thinking about this a lot

(13:54):
recently, actually, um, is.
It's also self protecting.
I love it.
So, we're, we're, when we'redoing something to avoid
somebody being disappointed,there's a part of us that thinks
that we'll keep everybody safe.
Us, me, them, the whole shebang.
Right?
And so, sometimes when you hearself abandoning, then you have

(14:17):
another thing to beat yourselfup over.
So true.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So I just, if anybody ever hadthat thought, I just want to
offer you your, your, your,there's an element of self
abandonment that the reasonyou're doing it is self
protecting and to have so muchlove and compassion.
That is a hundred percent of thereason why I now talk about.

(14:41):
The opposite of people pleasingis self connection.
So good.
I feel like that encompasseslike I self abandonment.
You're right.
I love that.
You said that we do not need togive women human socializes
women.
Another reason to like, Oh, I'mdoing it wrong because it's not

(15:02):
about.
Right and wrong.
It's about how do I, even inmoments where I'm doing
something, I might not choose todo or don't want to do.
How do I maintain connection tomaybe some good reasons to do it
anyway that I like or to my ownself where I can calm and
comfort and be with.

(15:24):
Myself, even in an experiencethat's not going the way I want
that I didn't choose that.
I would not repeat it.
I love that you brought that,brought that up.
What are your thoughts aboutthat too?
I think that something, when wetalk about like stopping people
pleasing or having a differentrelationship with it and self
connecting, I also love toinclude the fact that we're

(15:45):
going to be messy humans thewhole way through.
Yes.
And that there will be times.
That we will just say yes to ourmother in law, right?
Or to the cousin, or whoever.
We will, or our boss, right?
That we will just be like, youknow, I understand the price
that I would have to pay to sayno, and I'm just going to choose

(16:06):
yes.
Yes.
And even then, it's a differentrelationship with the, yes.
You're actively choosing it,understanding the price that
you're paying for it in aconscious, intentional way.
You have still changed yourrelationship to people pleasing,
even when you say some yesessometimes.

(16:28):
And I think that sometimes we,we also judge ourselves like,
Oh, I'm backtracking or, or Ihaven't done it or like, like we
find all kinds of ways to beatourselves up.
Right?
Like, that's just a thing we doas humans.
Yeah.
Oh, I just want to honor thatactually when it's intentional
and you're doing it on purposeand you're recognizing it and
making conscious choice, that'sactually an elevated
relationship with your choices.

(16:50):
That is very different than whenyou're unconscious about those
choices.
And I go so far as to say isthat I don't think that's people
pleasing.
I think that's doing somethingfor reasons that you choose.
And, and I think you're exactlyright.
That's a different relationshipwith that.
Even if we don't like it and,you know, we, we can't wait till

(17:11):
it's over.
It's just such an interestingtouch point for me to always
come back to everything we do ashumans is for safety and
connection.
Right.
And oftentimes we will sacrificeconnection to ourself to get
connection with someone elseand.

(17:31):
The goal is to just know whyyou're doing it and to be able
to acknowledge it and be kindand good to yourself about it,
even if you would make adifferent choice in the future.
I love it.
That there just isn't a scenariowhere you beat yourself up for
doing something for safety andconnection.
We want, like, if we coulderadicate that from the world,

(17:52):
it would be so amazing.
Gosh, so amazing.
The other thing that I wanted toget your take on is that I.
Often find in this kind of allor nothing thinking that people
pleasing.
I actually think people pleasinghas a place in healthy
relationships.
We don't call it people pleasingnecessarily, but you and I are

(18:15):
friends.
It means I want to know whatmatters to you.
I want to be able to do thingsthat are special for you that
are that are kind for you thatsupport and nurture you.
So tell me how you talk about.
Like if we're going to, let'sjust say the role of people
pleasing in a healthy way.

(18:36):
That's so interesting because Ido think just as a shorthand for
society, when we say peoplepleasing, we kind of, I think at
least when I hear it, it's whenyou're saying yes, the stuff you
want to say no to is like, I'mnot self pleasing, I'm people
pleasing.
So that's my personaldefinition.
I'm curious.
It's like what everyone'slistening, what their definition

(18:57):
would be.
So, and this is such a goodpoint.
Do I want to do things thatdelight my partner?
Do I want to do things becausethey matter to that person just
because they matter to thatperson or to my friend, just
because it matters to my friend.
I just feel like those arethings I want to be a yes for.
Like, I am a yes to doing thosethings, I am not self

(19:20):
abandoning, self protecting,self anything, in that moment.
I am, in that moment, being insafety and connection with this
other person, contributing tomore safety and connection with
this other person.
That's how I that's how like thelens I would look at it through
and what I think that I inmarriage I call it being sexy

(19:41):
besties.
I love it.
Um, and it's just cultivatingrapport and collaboration.
That's how I would think aboutit is, how do we collaborate for
you to have a great time and meto have a great time right and
all the different ways we can dothat.
So good.
It reminds me of when When Icame to coaching and I think,

(20:02):
um, I had this idea that it waspossible to get to a place where
I could somehow like insulatemyself against like the, like, I
just, well, one of the teachersI listened to a lot, she talked
about how, you know, I take careof my own needs.

(20:23):
My husband takes care of his ownneeds and then we just get
together and we just enjoy eachother's And I just felt like
that.
Would be the ideal to wherelike, he doesn't hurt my
feelings anymore.
We don't, you know, disagree.
We just get together and, andshare this great time together.
But my own needs, I take care ofall of them myself.

(20:45):
I'm a note of that.
I'm a hard note for that.
So, um, I don't think that'sreal.
I understand like everybody canhave their point of view.
Everybody can, can, if that likelights somebody up, like, go for
it.
Like I am, you know, I will notyuck anybody's young.
Okay.
However, as a person who hascoached thousands of hours on

(21:06):
relationships and a person who'slike, Okay.
Studied more things than theaverage pair in this matter.
Um, I love to quote the researchof the Gottman Institute.
They've spent like 40 years withthousands and thousands of
couples to see what works andwhat doesn't work.
And the basic essence of theconclusions they have come to is
that a friendship is the core ofany relationship that thrives.

(21:29):
And in a friendship, there'scollaboration and rapport.
There's what do you need andwhat do I need.
And are we both, like, gettingthe things we need?
Now, I do think, uh, anerroneous relationship myth is
that we should get every needmet by our romantic
relationship.
They should be sexy, but theyshould be funny, but they should

(21:50):
be able to fix the pipes, butthey should also be able to
sweep us off our feet, and theyshould be able to do this, and
they should, like, That, Ithink, is a myth.
I do think It takes a village,it takes friends, it takes
family, it, we get a bunch ofdifferent needs met by a bunch
of different people in differentscenarios, the over reliance on

(22:11):
one partner to meet every need,I do think is something that we
can look at, but it's almostlike that all or nothing
thinking again, we go from theover reliance on our partners to
meet every need to meet no needat all, right?
That's where I would be That'swhere I would land on something
like that.
I love that.
It's where I, I just, I feellike the, if we're talking, you

(22:34):
know, with like the liberationlens, knowing that I am free to
pendulate between likeindependence where I know
myself, I meet my needs, mywants, my desires, and
interdependent relationshipswith multiple types of
friendships, relationships.

(22:55):
That, that has provided, Ithink, a huge degree of the
freedom that I feel in myrelationships now.
Yeah.
And if we think of humans asmammals, we could not survive,
which we are, right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
We could not survive.
If I was born in a tundra withno access to food or language or

(23:20):
everything else that makescivilization, I would just die.
Like, humans! need each other tosurvive in every possible way.
And we need this like literallyphysically for warmth, for food,
for instruction, for all thosethings.
There's a, there's interestingresearch about men in general.

(23:44):
Being under touched and how, um,they're just not hugged.
It's not a thing in our sort ofWestern industrial society.
It's not an accepted thing thatthey do all the time.
And now there's actuallyresearch about like, we need to
be touched babies.
And when they're in the ICU,they need to be held.
Who's holding them, a dolphin?
Like, like humans need otherhumans.

(24:06):
So the idea that we would likesomehow be hyper independent and
just meet every single need onour own, that's just something
that I, I, I violently oppose.
I'm violently opposed, which ifyou know Maggie, she does not
have a violent bone in her body.
So that this brings out theviolence.

(24:28):
I love it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It just, I think it creates somuch unhappiness and women, you
know, this, I, I don't need totell you, but just to kind of
give context for where thisthought's coming from.
We have so much programming inour feminine, you know, human
socialized as women world aboutnot being needy, not being too

(24:51):
much, not taking up too muchspace.
I think we.
We have this myth that I couldsomehow figure out how to be the
perfect amount of needy so thatI'm not repelling people or the
perfect amount of taking upspace so that it's not too much,
but it's also not too little.
And it just, yeah, I thinkthat's like patriarchal

(25:12):
programming.
The idea that we shouldn't be, Imean, we've all heard things
about that, or when people aredating, you shouldn't text too
much or you should like, Layback or like all those kinds of
things we see, and I just thinkthat's not real.
I think that there's apatriarchal, patriarchal
construct that has violentlysuppressed teaching and

(25:33):
socializing men to feel theirfeelings and their emotions.
In many, many ways has made, hasthen made that the norm and said
everyone has to adapt to thissuppression of emotion that
doesn't work and isn't useful,really.
And so it's like, when we saydon't be needy, it's like, but
you can be human.
You can miss a person.

(25:54):
You can want to be in theirpresence.
You can reach out to the person.
Like, if we replaced every timeit says don't be needy with
don't be human.
That is really the messageunderneath that.
It's like be an automaton, be awidget.
Be in a factory.
Be a robot.
It's like, that is not to me.
I just go to this place whereit's like, that's not real.

(26:15):
And all the advice to say thatto me is just lack of nuance of
what it means to be human.
I love that.
I love that.
So if we're talking about like,what becomes possible when
marriage is a tool forliberation and some of the
things that you would Need.

(26:36):
I just wanna make sure.
Yeah.
That like what we would need.
Yeah.
We would need to have equality.
Making ourselves equal.
Yeah.
We would need to have a yes anda no.
Yeah.
We would lead need to know howto feel that.
Yeah.
Is there anything else that youcan think of that somebody would
need?
And of course this isn't gonnabe the definitive list.
Yeah.
But anything else that comes toyou before we kind of move to

(26:58):
the what becomes possible foryour marriage when it is a tool
for liberation?
I would say, I would just putself expression.
If we think of Maslow'shierarchy of needs, where we
need like food and water, likethere's certain things that
humans require in order to A,live just at all, and then to
thrive beyond just living orexisting.
And it's like at the top is selfexpression.

(27:21):
So what you need in yourmarriage, in order for your
marriage to be To feel like alab of liberation, to feel like
a safe space, like a, to feellike a sanctuary, is can I be
fully self expressed with thishuman?
Can I be nerdy about lovingrelationship psychology and

(27:42):
romance novels and Like, reallybeing upset about half of the
rom coms, but also loving them,right?
Or like, I love Formula One,which is a sport that is sexist
and patriarchal and has allkinds of isms.
Faked in it.
And the duality and paradox islike, and I also love it, right?

(28:02):
Can I be that version of me withall my contradictions with this
other human?
And can they be their human selfwith all their contributions?
With me and the places wherethat's not okay, it shows us
where we can coach, where we canexplore, where we can get
curious, what gets in the waythat shows us like where our

(28:25):
work would be if we wanted tochange that.
I love that.
Yeah.
I, I really feel.
That that is a, is a level oflike intimacy with the
contradictions of just what itis to be human.
Because some of those, I think,in our kind of self help

(28:48):
saturated, uh, you know, world,especially for human socialized
as women, we have this idea thatwe should always be working on
something and that there is aplace to get to where we are
some idealized version.
Where we just don't have thosecontradictions anymore, but how
much more beautiful it is tojust be.

(29:08):
Loved in and for thosecontradictions.
100%.
My very first coach, her name isChristine Kane.
She used to say, there is noarrival.
And that was so powerful for mewhen I heard her say that.
I was like, what, wait?
Because we're taught, especiallyin like Western industrialized
culture, we're taught like, yougraduate from school, and then

(29:30):
you get a job, and then you geta house, and you get a car.
There's this, there's thesepoints of arrival, but the, the
point of arrival always movesuntil, and then you retire.
And then, and it's like, wait,we've never.
We, we look for these fictitiouspoints of arrival and then it's
like so liberating to me to belike, wait, if there is no
arrival, it's just, well, whatdo I want to do?

(29:52):
Yeah.
Yeah.
No arrival and that liberationis this ongoing just practice or
lens or, um, just something thatyou sit down and you look at how
liberated do I feel, what, whatI need and what would my partner
need in my friendships, in my,um.

(30:13):
You know, and in myrelationships with boss or who,
whatever relationship, whatwould we need for the next
level?
And then, and then just workingon that, that shows you that
points you where to go and, youknow, listening to you, I just
had a thought that is kind of alittle wild, but.
I'm going to say it and then wecan talk about it.

(30:34):
What is liberation?
How do I know?
And I'm talking about selfexpression and all that.
And I thought about, my familycame to this country from Cuba,
which is a communist, uh,country.
And the first thing thathappened when communism came to
Cuba is freedom of speech waslike, abolished.
Like, the newspaper is run bythe government.
And the, anything that is, um,said in a public forum is some

(30:54):
form of like, propaganda.
It's controlled.
The communication is controlled.
And then what is a hallmarkessential for democracy?
It's freedom of speech.
It's to be able to express.
So we've been sort of talkingabout it on the personal level.
It's like, what is my selfexpression?
But genuinely, Right.

(31:15):
When, when there's no freedom ofexpression, there can be no
freedom.
It's so powerful.
And even backing that up, just astep to where a lot of the women
that I work with, if you don'tknow what you want, like, if you
don't know yourself, your wants,your desires, who you are, the
dreams you have for your life,there isn't anything to express.

(31:36):
And so for a lot of us, that'swhen we just get into fulfilling
other people's dreams and otherpeople's desires and other
people's wants, because there isa.
There's a lack of know of selfknowledge and self connection
there.
This is such a common thing.
I've coached on it so many timeswhere people are like, I don't
even know what I want.
You're telling me this thing andI'm like, okay.

(31:57):
So today for homework, you'regoing to practice wanting you're
going to decide what you wantfor dinner.
You're going to if you drive.
You're going to put on the radioand you're going to decide what
station you want to listen toand you're going to switch the
song if you don't like that oneand you're going to on purpose
stand in your closet and decidewhat you're going to wear and
like I want to wear red todaylike you're going to practice

(32:20):
being just being in presencewith your desires at the
smallest most doable mostaccessible levels and then we
just build You That muscle fromlike what I want for dinner from
what I want to wear to like,where do I want to go on
vacation?
Or what book do I want to read?
And being, it's a differentrelationship with your desires.

(32:41):
And then as you build thatmuscle, you start trusting
yourself more to say, well, I'vealways wanted to take a cooking
class.
And you know what, if I could doanything, I think I want to go
ice skate.
Or I had so many clients overthe years where we did the
coaching and then they moved tolike, actually.

(33:02):
I want to live in this otherstate and like, yeah, let's do
it from little all the waythere.
And that is such just aliberatory process in and of
itself.
It's, it's something, I mean, I,I teach a whole module how to
want inside of stop pupilpleasing because it is a skill.
And if you never got it, if itwasn't safe to want, if wanting

(33:24):
caused you disconnection inplaces, yes, you do have to work
on that.
As an adult, and then what haveyou seen become possible or
available when marriage is aliberatory experience?
I mean, in the biggest, broadestsense, it's a sense of peace.

(33:48):
It's a sense of freedom.
It's a deeper sense ofenjoyment, right?
It's all these feelings thatweren't accessible before.
If I was gonna sort of zoom allthe way out Sometimes it's also,
um, people who decide toseparate and and would have I'll
never forget one of my favoriteEmails I've ever gotten from a

(34:08):
client We worked together for ayear and she wrote to me like a
year later and she said, youknow, I really took to heart
everything we did and I cleanedup my side of the table and I
just showed up in a way that Ifeel so proud of myself.
And we decided to get divorced.
And I would have stayed 10 moreyears trying to make this
marriage work.
Had I not done all of this, youknow, work to just show up the

(34:30):
way that I wanted to show up.
And that's like the mostultimate freedom.
She got 10 years of her lifefreaking back.
Yeah.
Right.
So sometimes it's more like whathappened with you, or you're
just like, Oh my God, we werealready amazing.
And now it's deeper and richerand more delicious.
And it's just like, um, I callit going from like, Um, a four,
a three star to a four star,like, you know those hotels

(34:53):
where they have like the hotbreakfast and they, they're
nice, they're fine, they'regood.
But then you go to like afreaking five star luxury resort
and you're like, this isamazing, right?
And everything you look aroundand it's just like, this feels
so good.
Like that level of, this isfine, but this is amazing.
Yeah.

(35:13):
That's how I, yeah, I, I think,and, and that amazing looks
different and can be differentfor everyone.
But I, I think that the thingthat like, first of all, do you
remember the day that I showedup for coaching?
And I'm like, guess what?
I learned.
It doesn't have to be a thing.
Yes.
I do remember that actually.

(35:35):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Just like everything that Ithought had to be a thing.
What if it just doesn't have tobe a thing?
And I was talking about thingsthat in my marriage, I had just
kind of harped on for a lot ofyears.
I just didn't like the way hedid that thing or whatever.
And just, what if I just let it,Oh, and so sometimes liberation
is letting things go that youreally want to for reasons that

(36:00):
you like.
It's not pretending that they'reokay.
Just, you know, to be clear,but.
I feel like where the liberationfor me has been the most just
poignant and beautiful is inexactly the example you just
shared.
I feel like my marriage now is afive star luxury experience, and

(36:22):
we still need to figure outwho's going to take the trash
and cook dinner.
Right.
So it's It's still that.
It's still practical.
Yeah.
It's still all those things.
Yeah.
But, but I, I choose it ahundred percent and it has been,
um, so much of what I've learnedfrom you and just what I have
learned as I plug into myself,my wants, my needs.

(36:44):
You're self connected, right?
I'm self connected.
The more self connected you havebecome, the more clear all of
these other things become too.
Absolutely.
Maggie, is there anything thatwe haven't talked about yet that
you just want to make sure thatyou say?
Oh, my gosh.
Um, I just want to say toeveryone.
Thank you for listening.

(37:06):
Thank you for being in this typeof conversation.
Thank you for.
It's Brave.
You know, it's called the X GoodGirl Podcast.
It's Brave, every time youdownload it, right?
And this is how we change theworld.
Which is like, it sounds likeyou're listening to a podcast,
but you're like rearranging thecells in your body.
And you're becoming a differentperson.
And I just think that's brave.

(37:26):
So I just want to celebrate.
Everyone who's listening, like,thank you.
And if you have any question asto what it's like to work with
Maggie as a coach, that's whatit is being celebrated being,
um, I mean, I always felt likejust a rock star when I was your
client and, you know, now asyour friend, because you do find

(37:49):
the most amazing things tocelebrate about people and that.
It's a practice that I've kindof taken into my life and my
clients celebrating justeverything about them.
I highly, highly recommend, um,hiring Maggie as a marriage
coach.
If that is an area of your lifethat you want to work on.

(38:09):
And I will say this, even if youhave a fantastic marriage, a
fantastic four star marriage,and you want to get to five
star.
You should listen to Maggie.
So Maggie, where can people findyou?
What are you currently offering?
I love it.
So you can find me at MaggieReyes.
com.
It's R E Y E S.
So Maggie, M A G G I E Reyes.

(38:30):
com And you can sign up therefor my emails and you'll get all
the updates for everything thatI'm doing all the time.
I currently teach a six monthprogram called the Marriage MBA.
where we just walk through howto communicate better, how to
not make things a thing, how todecide which things should be a
thing and which things aren't athing, all that kind of fun
stuff.
Um, and then you can also followme on Instagram at

(38:53):
TheMaggieReyes.
Feel free to say hello there.
If you have a takeaway fromtoday's show, I'd love to hear
it.
You can DM me, um, but go toMaggieReyes.
com and that's the best way tokeep in touch.
And I just want to say that youdon't just coach on traditional
marriage.
You have space and, uh, coachingtools for non traditional

(39:15):
marriage options as well.
And then I, I, um, I have foundthat to just be so loving and
open part of part of part of theloving and open way that you
just approach.
Relationships.
Thank you.
It's, it's something interestingto navigate, right?
It's like, what, like, long termrelationships, how we're set up,
what we do.
If you are inspired to just workon your relationship in some

(39:37):
way, come over.
We'll talk about it.
We always want to make sure it'sa good fit for what the person
needs.
And Sarah and I are very similarin that it's like, if we're not
it, we'll be like, here are it.
Three resources and twosuggestions and all of that kind
of stuff of what you should do.
100%.
Thank you, Maggie.
I love you.
Thanks for having thisconversation with me.
Thank you.
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