Ep. #53: Grace Maher, COO of OTR Solutions

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey FreightPod listeners.
Before we get started today,let's do a quick shout out to
our sponsor, rapido SolutionsGroup.
Rapido connects logistics andsupply chain organizations in
North America with the bestnearshore talent to scale
efficiently and deliver superiorcustomer service.
Rapido works with businessesfrom all sides of the logistics
industry.
This includes brokers, carriersand logistics software

(00:23):
companies.
Rapido builds out teams withroles across customer and
carrier sales and support, backoffice, administration and
technology services.
The team at Rapido knowslogistics and people.
It's what sets them apart.
Rapido is driven by an insideknowledge of how to recruit,
hire and train within theindustry and a passion to build
better solutions for success.

(00:44):
The team is led by CEO DannyFrisco and COO Roberto Lacazza,
two guys I've worked with frommy earliest days in the industry
at Coyote.
I have a long history with themand I trust them.
I've even been a customer oftheirs at Molo and let me tell
you they made our businessbetter.
In the current market whereeveryone's trying to do more
with less and save money, in thecurrent market where everyone's

(01:04):
trying to do more with less andsave money, solutions like
Rapido are a great place tostart To learn more.
Check them out at gorapidocom.
That's gorapidocom.
Thanks for being a sponsor.
And before we get this show onthe road, we have one more
promotion for our old friendPaul Estrada, who's now

(01:26):
launching his own podcast, let'sride.
Let's give him a second to showyou what he's all about what's
up?

Speaker 2 (01:36):
freight pod listeners , long time no talk.
It's your good old friend, paulestrada, here to tell you about
my new podcast, let's ride withwith Paul Estrada, the podcast
where Dad tackles the bigquestions of life, career and
everything in between by talkingto interesting people that have
the answers.
Our guests include a5-million-mile long-haul truck
driver, 1993 Rookie of the Yearand World Series champion, a

(01:57):
school custodian, a 30-yearveteran with the LA County
Sheriff's Department, and manymore.
Join me each week as my 6 ahalf year old son, adrian,
throws out a thought provokingquestion or idea, and I invite a
guest to help me sufficientlyrespond to them.
From learning about money andinvesting to finding a passion
in life and exploring careersthat can be meaningful for you,
we cover it all with a dose ofhumor and some sound bites of

(02:18):
wisdom.
The let's Ride Podcast withPaul Estrada, available wherever
you get your podcasts.

Speaker 1 (02:41):
All right, welcome back to another episode of the
Freight Pod.
I'm your host, andrew Silver,and I've got a wonderful guest
today for our audience.
We're getting into a wholedifferent side of the business
that we have not touched on, andwe've got an expert here to
educate us, inform us, on howthe world of factoring works,
and her name is Ms Grace Mayer.

(03:02):
Did I get the last name right,mayer?

Speaker 3 (03:04):
It's Mar, but I go, everyone says Mayer, so it's
fine, it's fine.

Speaker 1 (03:10):
Shame on ChatGPT.
I knew DeepSeek was better.
I said how do I pronounce GraceMarr?
That's right.
And it gave me M-A-Ycapitalized dash, E-R, which to
me is saying Mayer.

Speaker 3 (03:24):
I get it a lot.
But you know there's bill maherand so I'm thinking like maybe
he's not as well known as, butin my mom growing up would
always say it's like the planetmars without an s.
I was like that works.

Speaker 1 (03:39):
Yeah, if she's got to get that into the chat gpt
training.
So they know that now and nexttime there won't be an accent
for me, but next time someoneelse wants to get your name
right.
Hopefully chat GPT is betterprepared.

Speaker 3 (03:51):
Well, look, it's Irish.
I think it's really my her, solike it's.
Are any of us saying it right?

Speaker 1 (04:00):
It's it's the world you make it like.
It's it's the world you make itLike it's your name, you get to
be what you want.
So Grace Marr, the wonderfulGrace Marr, coo of OTR Solutions
, one of the top factoringcompanies in the industry.
We're coming full circle.
For those of you who've beenlistening since episode one, our
boy, kevin Nolan, talked aboutOTR a little bit.

(04:22):
It's one of the businesses thathe helped get started and is
involved with, and so let'sstart with your own journey,
grace, into the space.
Like, take me back.
Even before you got intofreight, what were you doing?
Coming out, you were smart,went to Georgia Tech, is that
right?

Speaker 3 (04:39):
I did, I did.
I grew up in Atlanta, so I'venever left.
I grew up in Atlanta, so I'venever left.
I kind of wish I had lookingback, but I grew up in Atlanta
and so my parents are from NewYork, my dad's from the Bronx
and my mom's from Long Island,and he moved down here in the

(05:02):
70s to become a sportscaster andhe recognized Atlanta was a
strong sports city but had nosports news.
So he came down and fell inlove with, I think, Bobby
Cremins at Georgia Tech andtheir basketball program, and

(05:23):
all I can remember from being alittle girl was going to the
basketball games and he wouldalways say you're going to go to
Georgia Tech.
And so when it came time toapply for colleges, I actually
I'll never forget theapplication for NYU came in and
he threw it in the trash andsaid we've already had this
conversation.
Only school I applied to, thankgoodness.
I mean I had good grades, I wasgoing to get in.

(05:46):
I was a female in 2000 tryingto get into Georgia Tech.
I was definitely getting in.
So there's one girl for every12 guys at Tech.
People always ask me that stat.

Speaker 1 (06:00):
Why is that?

Speaker 3 (06:02):
Why is that?
It's a very well.
Traditionally it was a boys'school, but I think I don't know
.
You know engineeringarchitecture.
It was, you know, not a lot ofwomen Historically
male-dominated.
Historically male-dominated.
I should probably know thehistory a little bit better.
I just remember calling my dadthe very first time I went

(06:26):
through the student centerbecause all my friends had gone
to University of Georgia orAlabama or Auburn.
They're having these amazing,you know college experiences and
I call my dad.
I said Dad, it's Friday at thestudent center and they're all
playing chess and he's likethat's good for you, baby, go go

(06:47):
figure it out, you know that'sawesome.

Speaker 1 (06:51):
So did you play chess ?

Speaker 3 (06:52):
No, I did I.
No, I didn't play chess.
I uh, I would go to Auburn alot on the weekends.

Speaker 1 (06:58):
I was going to say you, you went to another school
to to find a good time.

Speaker 3 (07:01):
I actually worked a ton through college.
I worked like 30, 40 hoursthrough college.
So I worked for a smallboutique selling high-end shoes
and purses called Personalityand Soul.
Yes, Okay.
Personality and Soul.
Did you, got it.

(07:22):
That'll draw you in, I guess,and then I went and worked at
Nordstrom, which has amazingservice, and so between working
for a family owned boutique thatyou know you had to give great
service because, like they couldgo to the large department
stores in Atlanta, so why wouldyou go there?
So the owners of that businesswere very like, big on service

(07:46):
and bringing people back, andthen, of course, nordstrom,
which is an incredible companyto work for, I learned a lot
about service and so I went totech and worked in retail.

Speaker 1 (08:02):
Not the expected route, but I actually I hired
two people, I think, who eithercame for I think they did come
from Nordstrom and not I Molo,we hired two people who come
from Nordstrom and like, whenyou're running a business,
you're always kind of paying alittle bit of attention to like
where are these people comingfrom?
it's just an interestinganecdote to to be mindful of.

(08:23):
Like, oh, I get a lot of peoplewho went to this school or this
major or they've been bartenderand in freight you hear a lot
about athletes and bartendersand servers, like waiters and
how they do well, because youknow it's very service oriented
you're.
You're dealing with problems,people complaining to you a lot,
or team-like environments withsports.

(08:46):
In any case, I had neverthought about people from a
Nordstrom-type background, butboth of the individuals we hired
from there were incredible andthey knew how to cater to the
customer in ways that just keptthe customer happy.
Does that resonate?

Speaker 3 (09:04):
Completely customer happy.
Yeah, does that resonate, katieRobbert, mph?
Completely.
I mean Nordstrom every morningwould pull all the employees
together and have a stand upevery morning and they would do
it in like pep rally formatwhere there would be music
blaring and like we'd all.
I mean this is a retailer right.
But if, if you think back or atleast I do to those days, the
shoe salesman which Nordstromstarted in Seattle as a shoe

(09:28):
company they were not originallya very large department store,
so they started as a shoecompany, family-owned business,
and they really carried so muchof the mission and values of
that family through and throughall those years into Nordstrom
becoming, you know, megaretailer of high end.
You know brands, and thebiggest thing that they would

(09:52):
teach us in the morning was justlike you know that, that
everyone has a choice of wherethey're going to shop.
So why are they going to pickNordstrom?
And we walk around the counterwith the bag and and they gave
me business cards.
I mean I'm an 18 year oldselling fashion jewelry, like
but they treated me like you'rean executive of Nordstrom.
You know, here are your cardsand you hand them out.
You get to know people's names.

(10:13):
I mean I loved it.
And there was an aspect ofcommission where you know, of
course, the more that I sell,the better that I do.
And when you looked over at theshoe salesman, those men and
women that sold shoes made$200,000 a year selling.
Yes, they did so well, I don'tthink people realize, like if

(10:35):
you sold shoes at North.
Shore they did phenomenal.
It was, yeah, I mean it's agreat company.
Um, it was, yeah, I mean it's agreat company.
They take care of their people.

(10:56):
Um, you know you had employeestock options and you know, even
if you work there for a littleamount of acknowledged and being
told like, how to, you know,acknowledge others and the the
way that the store manager wouldwalk through I mean I've just I
haven't seen a lot of.
You know, um, companies operatein such a way and uh, yeah,

(11:19):
nordstrom was an incredibleexperience.
I graduated from tech actuallywith a business degree and a
certificate in accounting,because my father said everyone
always needs an accountant, soyou'll go, you know cause?
I was like I don't want to bean engineer.
And he said, well, go donumbers.
And so when I graduated fromtech, nordstrom offered me a

(11:40):
position in their HR departmentto help recruit for all of their
new stores.
So I helped open the store inSan Antonio and the one at
Phipps here in Atlanta.
And then my father says youcannot work retail.
I did not send you to GeorgiaTech to work retail.
And he says go, dad, good Lord,retail.

(12:08):
And he says go, dad, good Lord.
So, uh, so I went and became anauditor for five and a half
years for a company that didspecialize in low income housing
, tax credits, solar credits, um, and I did that for five and a
half years and then I got intofreight.

Speaker 1 (12:22):
So first thought I have your dad kind of mean the
limited you know, eight minutesI've been listening to you talk
and a few few notes to your dad.
He kind of reminds me a littlebit of my own father and like
this sounds like he was simpleand direct and yet always
pointing you generally in theright direction so my father is

(12:45):
okay.

Speaker 3 (12:45):
He there's not enough .
The podcast could be about him.
He's incredible.
He's a charismatic crazy.
I mean totally eclectic, Idon't know how.
He is a man of nine lives.
He is pretty incredible.
He's crazy.

(13:06):
He started the first rugbyleague in Atlanta.
He started the first, you know,sports radio broadcasting
station in Atlanta got fired sohe started another one because
he's from the Bronx and so hewould say things he wasn't
supposed to say, you know, andonly works on Howard Stern back

(13:26):
then.
Exactly exactly.
And you know I mean the stories, you know from his first car
was a fire engine and his.
You know the stories of rugbyparties and you know I mean
Studio 54.
I've got a lot of great storiesabout my dad.

Speaker 1 (13:47):
He's pretty awesome but uh let me, let me ask you
this before we get in a freight,let's stay on your dad for a
minute, and we don't have timefor all the stories, but why
don't you tell me the best partsof him that you feel you've
pulled into yourself, or thatyou've learned from him that
you've applied into your lifetoday and how you are as as a

(14:09):
professional, as a you know,personally, I'm just.
You know what are the bestparts of the first day of school
?

Speaker 3 (14:15):
he would make me sign a contract.
That school was my job and Iwould do a great job.
Um, a little bit of his uh,well, his sarcasm.

(14:41):
He's real sarcastic.
So I can be, I'm not.
I most of the time I'm funnywhen I'm not trying to be, but
uh, he's, he's hilarious, um,and you know, probably, his love
of people.
He's incredibly loyal.
I am very loyal, just like heis almost to a fault, you know,

(15:03):
um, but he, he loves his people.
Oh, my goodness, you know, andhe's just, he's almost to a
fault, you know, um, but he, heloves his people.
Oh, my goodness, you know, andhe's just, he's a giant teddy
bear.
So I I definitely got my loveof people and affection and you
know, and drive to do, you knowto, to work really hard from him
but there's, there's, no,there's an ode to dad yeah,

(15:24):
there's a note.

Speaker 1 (15:24):
You's a lot of a lot of the good from him yeah um,
all right.
So five and a half years ofmind numbing work as an auditor
and then you get pulled intofreight.
Sorry, I added mind numbing.
Maybe you thought it wasthrilling.
I shouldn't have said that.
But well, you Robbert.

Speaker 3 (15:42):
Well, you know, what's funny is it was mind
numbing.
And have you ever done a jobwhere you're like I know I'm not
really good at this and itfeels bad Like it, at least to
me?
I don't ever really want to doanything that I don't feel great
at which.
Yeah that's ego.
Yay for ego.
You know I was the captain ofthe soccer team and I, you know,

(16:07):
I like leading, I like feelinglike I'm doing well.

Speaker 1 (16:13):
Nothing wrong with that.

Speaker 3 (16:14):
I didn't feel like I did well In accounting at a
certain point.
It's like I don't really knowif I care about gap principles,
like I don't.
That's just not really doing itfor me.
So and then I sort of realizedthat they were sending me to a
lot of conferences and I wasgoing to a lot of meetings and
I'm like, well, I'm really greatat sales, like I'm great at the

(16:35):
people part, like you want meto sell our auditing, you know,
and um, and that would have beenfine too and I probably could
have done that.
But instead I called my cousinBobby.
Bobby went to high school withKevin.
They played football together.
They were very close.

Speaker 1 (16:51):
Kevin Nolan, right, that's correct Kevin Nolan.

Speaker 3 (16:55):
Back then everybody started by knowing Kevin Nolan,
right, like we, you know.
But I called Bobby and I said Idon't think I can do this
anymore.
So, but I called Bobby and Isaid I don't think I can do this
anymore and so if you hear ofanything, let me know.
And Bobby was working at NTG.
Bobby had been in the army andyou know we were a really close

(17:16):
family, so oftentimes on Sundayswe would have family dinner and
when Bobby would come home fromdeployments he would say when I
get out of the army, kevin'sgoing to give me a job.
And I was at the auditing firmat this time and I was like what
are you going to do with Kevin?
Because I knew Kevin.
I was like what are you doingwith Kevin?
He's like, well, he loadstrucks that are empty.
I was like that's a job.

(17:37):
And he's like, yeah, it's agreat job, he's doing great.
So anyway, fast forward to whenI called Bobby and said I think
I need something new.
Like I, if you hear anything,let me know.
And he's like, well, kevinmight be hiring.
Like you should come talk toKevin.
I said, okay.
So you know, I got my littleinterview outfit on and I show

(17:58):
up to sit down with Kevin andafter about probably an hour and
a half of sitting with Kevin, Isaid yes to a job.
I went from making $85,000 ayear in 2000.
Well, I was I forget how old Iwas, but I was.

(18:22):
It was around 2011 that I leftthe auditing firm and took gosh.
I can say this right, I tooklike $33,000 to get to take an
opportunity with Kevin Causethat's how good of a salesman he
is and he was so passionate andI was like I believe in the
dream that he has and I want tobe a part of it.

(18:43):
And, um, at the time I think Iwas employee 20, maybe 20.
Um, I was one of the firstfull-time females he hired and I
was going to do HR, recruitingand accounting for 40 hours a
week, because none of those werea 40 hour a week job.

(19:04):
Okay, and and so that's that'swhere I started.
But right around the time that Istarted, we also Kevin had
founded OTR and I started to seeas they were looking at
paperwork and trying to figureout, like, should we buy this?
Shouldn't we buy this?
Mike, pass that over here, whatare you looking at?

(19:25):
And I start matching the PODswith the rate cons and asking
what are we doing here?
And I'm like this is so up myalley, like we need to figure
out if we're going to buy this.
And you want me to be nice to acarrier on the other end of the
phone, Like all day, I will dothis all day and, and that's how

(19:49):
it all started and I would comein in the morning and we would
invoice in the morning, I wouldcollect in the afternoon and I
would sell before I went homeand pass the leads to Chris Ebel
and he would close them.
You know, chris, chris, yep, andthere were five of us on fold
up desks and folding chairs andyou know big pens, because that

(20:11):
was the nicest office supply wecould own.
Um, you know, and we joke, Iwould like if the printer was
out of ink, I'd scream shake thetoner, because there was always
a little more left.
You know, I mean we had nothing.
Like Blake would yell if weused a post-it note.
But why would you use a pieceof paper you could throw away?

(20:32):
You know, but those were someof the best days you know, it
was so fun.

Speaker 1 (20:40):
So I want to.
I want to first go to Kevin fora minute.
Just Just the idea that youspent an hour and a half with
him and he sold you on the jobright then.
And there it strikes me becausethis weekend I recorded an
episode with my father.
I spent four hours talking tohim and we talked about sales at

(21:00):
one point and I asked him whatmakes him a great kind of what?
How is he able to captivatepeople the way that he does?
And he hit passion and, and it'slike so true, I've felt like
the leaders who are best at justlocking people and like
captivating them in a way thatmakes them just so endeared to

(21:21):
whatever the person's saying.
It is more often than notpassion that is a driving factor
behind that.
So, like I just am curious,like, will you take me back to I
mean, I assume kevin was like25, 26, I mean he was young at
the time um, what was thatexperience like?
Sitting there on the other sideof the table with him?
You know someone, someone whobecomes, like you know, a very

(21:44):
important figure in our industrywith, with the businesses he's
helped build and create.
What are the other elementsthat were so kind of unique
about.
About Kevin, in that momentthat you just were like I want
to do this with this person.

Speaker 3 (22:00):
He was honest, you know.
He was honest about what he wasbuilding.
He was honest about what hecould give and he was honest
about what he would expect.
And all of those things werelike it was going to be a
challenge.
It was going to be hard work.

(22:20):
He couldn't pay me a ton now.
Hard work, he couldn't pay me aton now.
But if I contributed to thebusiness and I was, you know,
and he made me feel like he hada vision and the right people
that were willing to like be apart of it and give what he
could give, like I understoodthat this was like he.

(22:41):
He needed me as much as Ineeded him and if we did it
together then we would besucceeding.
But he also said it in such away that I was like he has no
plans not to succeed.
And it wasn't like a cockiness,but it was like I'm doing this
and I'd love for you to be apart of the ride and I need you,

(23:01):
but I can't pay you yet.

Speaker 1 (23:07):
So if you want to take you know, know, almost like
if I was willing to gamble onmyself right and I was at that
point and you know you mentionedhow before, when you talk to
your cousin, he's like he'sloading trucks and you obviously
never understood that could bea business.
Then you're in your first week,or whatever.
You're sitting there doing thejob and you start to learn about

(23:28):
the potential factoring concepthere.
Was that completely foreign toyou too?
As you were looking at that,were you like what is this a
real business?
Like?
How did you wrap your mindaround the opportunity that you
were kind of walking into, giventhat it was so foreign and just
I?

Speaker 3 (23:43):
don't know almost unreal.
It was so foreign.
I mean, nobody taught me aboutfactoring, that was not like.
But as I understood it andasked questions and you know
there were 70% of carriersfactor and like.
I also had the experience ofworking at the freight brokerage

(24:04):
.
You know, in the beginning ofOTR that wasn't a 40 hour a week
job either.
So I honestly got to do bothfor almost a year before Fritz
and Kevin were like you have topick a path.
I also married a freight broker, so I knew a lot about that

(24:24):
side of it too, but I learned aton.
But you know, in the beginningit's like I saw I did see the
checks going out to carriers wasthis big and the checks going
out to factoring companies wasthis big.
So obviously the factoringcompanies were established.
But you have this concept oflike the carriers use a

(24:45):
factoring company to get paidquickly.
I mean it was all a little wild, wild west back then, but I
took it for face value and waslike, oh okay, like I understood
the idea of doing it better andI've always my favorite class
at Tech had been thisentrepreneurship forum class,

(25:08):
this entrepreneurship forumclass.
In fact, sarah Blakely came andspoke to us literally like a
month after she had been onOprah, so right as like the
trajectory of Spanx was takingoff, and so I always had this
idea that like I knew I wantedto be a part of something right.
So I don't know, it was justlike it was new, but it was
exciting.
Like carriers are doing this,let's just do it better.

(25:31):
And I kind of felt like I coulddo the service thing better
than anyone in the building.
Maybe it was because I was awoman, maybe it was because of
my background, maybe it'sbecause I got to talk to
carriers all day and that justseemed super easy.
And the way the freight brokerswere talking to them, I was
like, oh, I can be very nice, ohyeah.

Speaker 1 (25:54):
So talk to me a little bit.
So, again, this is the firsttime we've talked about
factoring on this show, so Ithink it's our job to kind of
educate the audience on as muchof it as we can, and I'm going
to be relying on you for that.
Let's start with just kind ofthe, because I think also we
want to highlight the entiretyof the OTR story and the growth

(26:16):
and how you guys have becomesuch a mainstay in the space.
So, like, give me an idea inyour mind of what the landscape
was in 2011 when you started.
So OTR was just.
You know, you were one of thefirst employees.
The business was just gettinggoing.
What did the competitivelandscape look like back then?
Give me a little bit of thatbackground.

Speaker 3 (26:40):
You know there's some I mean there's more factors
today than there were back then,but there was only a handful.
I mean more than a handful, butprobably no more than I don't
know 15, 20 major factors.
You know probably less, andthey were charging anywhere
between maybe seven and even 12%.

(27:02):
So let me back up factoring forthose who do not know.

Speaker 2 (27:07):
Thank you, yeah.

Speaker 3 (27:08):
Factoring for those who do not know which.
By the way, thanks for invitingme on to explain this.

Speaker 1 (27:13):
So you're the face of factoring.

Speaker 3 (27:14):
I love that, thank you.
So essentially the carriersmost people don't realize like
if well, I guess in youraudience does realize that you
know there are tons of owneroperators out there, independent
trucking companies running thefreight all over America.
It's not just, you know, theLansars and the Covenants and
the you know Schneiders, it's,there's tons of independent

(27:37):
trucking companies and these menand women, they are great at
moving freight.
They're not necessarily greatat billing it.
They're also agnostic most ofthe time to the brokers they're
working with.
They'll take anyone's freight.
They'll take the best payingfreight and anyone that can keep
them moving right, you knowthis.
And again, they don'tnecessarily always know the pay

(27:59):
terms or where they're sendingthose bills, because once they
deliver, that POD is gold.
Once you have assigned POD, youget to get paid and essentially
carriers use a factoringcompany.
They submit the POD and then wepay them at a small discount
that day or the next day and wego bill the broker or the

(28:21):
shipper and wait on the paymentand probably anywhere between,
like I said, 60 and 70 percentof carriers factor and you know
the thing about factoring is youcan't just like they can pick
and choose brokers, they can'tpick and choose factors.
So once they sign up with afactoring company, they're

(28:42):
locked in until either thecontract's up and they say, you
know, hey, I want out, oranother factoring comes in and
buys the aging and gets them outof the factoring contract, gets
them out of the factoringcontract.
So at that time in 2011,.
Contracts were pretty loose.
Factors were charging seven to12% insane for three day pay

(29:12):
maybe.
And we came into the market at5% saying we'll pay you the next
day.
And people thought we werecrazy 5% for next day payment.
And um, we took off.
You know, as as much as fourpeople and a phone can take off,

(29:33):
right.
But um, you know, we, we, fromthe get go.
We're answering people's callswhich, if you called any
factoring company at that time,good luck getting anyone on the
phone carriers.
Once you signed up and you, youhad to send everything, you got
paid.
If you got paid, if they had tocharge something back, they

(29:54):
would just charge it backwilly-nilly, which is really
hard for a carrier.
In other words, for anyone whodoesn't know what factoring is.
Once I pay the carrier the$1,000, if the broker short pays
the load at all I go back tothe carrier and say you have to
pay me back Right.

(30:15):
Back to the carrier and say youhave to pay me back Right.
Well, a lot of times factoringcompanies if they don't do their
due diligence, if they don'tverify correctly and they pay
they just pay blindly thenthey're going to be charging
things back to the carrier a lotthat can put a carrier out of
business.
So that was also what we weretrying to do really well from
the beginning is like when wepay you, we're going to pay you

(30:36):
right every time, so you don'thave to deal with chargebacks,
so you don't have to deal withissues.
And we were also one of thefirst non-recourse factoring
companies truly non-recourse,meaning once we buy the bill, if
the broker goes out of business, it's on us, we took on the
risk out of business, it's on us, we took on the risk.

(31:02):
So there wasn't a ton of creditout there for carriers to know
like should I work with thisbroker?
Shouldn't I work with thisbroker?
Carriers would take freight allthe time and then not get paid.
Or if the factoring company didpay them and now the factoring
company can't get paid back,they're charging that load back
completely.
So there are a few differentangles in which I feel like we

(31:23):
came out of the gate immediatelyand had some momentum behind us
, and part of that was the factthat we were competing on rate.
We absolutely were competing onservice.
Competing on rate, weabsolutely were competing on
service.
And we were also competing on,I would say you know, you know

(31:47):
the fact that they can depend onthe, you know our payment as
being one that that they couldtrust not to be charged back
later and put them at risk ofhaving cash flow issues or going
out of business because $1,000invoice like that, they're out.
You know small carrier, so yeah, what?

Speaker 1 (32:02):
so I'm curious one like how easy was it to just say
we can make money at 5%, let'scharge 5%, and here we go.

Speaker 3 (32:14):
I mean not easy.
We had to.
We were very picky about who wecould work with in the
beginning.
You know, in fact, you knownowadays it's funny it's like I
was just having thisconversation the other day
because you get to a certainsize where you can sort of work

(32:36):
with most anyone right and takea risk, but back then you
couldn't spend time hoping youwere signing on a carrier that
we weren't going to make moneyon.
In fact, one of the firstlessons we learned was car
haulers.
I remember I think it was ChrisTiger, we call him Tiger.
We thought we found a honeyhole with car haulers Because

(33:00):
all of a sudden you startedcalling car haulers and they're
like you'll factor for me?
Oh yeah, of course we will.
And I think it was like after afew weeks I was like we can't
do this, like we're not going tomake, we can't make any money
on this.
This takes way too longVerifying these you know this is
not supporting paperwork thatthey're turning in Like so

(33:20):
really understanding, like whowe could afford to work with and
make money because we couldn'thire either until we could
justify hiring another body.

Speaker 1 (33:29):
So yeah, that's so funny.
It just that reminds me so ofthe, the kind of notion of in
freight brokerage sales, like ifa customer gives you loads on
the first call you make to them,it's probably not going to be a
good customer for you and the.
You know, if they're that easyto give you a chance, they're
giving everybody a chance and soit's probably gonna be the

(33:52):
cheapest freight or, in thiscase, you know, the most complex
company to work with, which iswhy they were ecstatic at you
offering them the chance tofactor.
They're like you'll do this.
Okay, yeah, sure, here you go.
Good luck with this paperwork.

Speaker 3 (34:05):
That's right.
It's too good to be true?
Probably is.

Speaker 1 (34:10):
Yeah, when did the industry?
I mean now the rates are likeway lower than you know, seven
to 12.
I was surprised to hear thatnow what's where's the market at
?
Like two to three.

Speaker 3 (34:23):
Generally A lot of two to three would be probably
fair.
A lot of factors will even sayyou know under 2%.
I'll argue it's not theireffective factoring rate once
you add in the chargebacks.
Or then you look at thecontract and say, see that
there's tiered rate, you know,based on aging.

(34:43):
So once the invoice ages to 40,50 days they'll plug in a fee,
you know, for taking longer.
So you know, I think it waslast year or the year before we
started saying like look, we'lllook at contracts for free, like
you don't even have to workwith OTR, because once you start
to really look into differentfactoring contracts you really

(35:07):
can pick apart what those, youknow what they're really
charging.
But sometimes you'll even seesub 1%.
But those are, you know, arefor larger factoring, I mean
larger trucking companies.

Speaker 1 (35:20):
Yeah, it makes sense with scale.
The bigger the company, thelower the rate they should get.
I understand that piece.
What I'm curious about, I guessand I feel like you kind of
just validated it.
But my thought is, as themarket has gotten more
competitive and more and morefactors are coming into the
competitive landscape, there'sbeen a fight for every dollar

(35:45):
and rates have dropped.
And now you know, like we'veseen in freight, as it gets too
crowded, people start to get alittle shifty and creative in a
maybe not so healthy way to maketheir pricing look more
attractive than it is.
It kind of sounds like whatyou're suggesting some companies
in the field have done.

Speaker 3 (36:04):
Yeah, I mean definitely.
I think the most importantthing anybody can do is really
understand obviously theircontract, which sounds simple.
But when you break things apart, obviously their contract,
which sounds simple, but whenyou break things apart, it's
like is it as simple as itsounds?
When you just see on the screenlike 1%, like if I call, if I
call any trucking company today,I'm like, hey, are you

(36:26):
interested in factoring?
The first thing they ask iswhat, what, what rate do you
charge?
It's so price sensitive, but ifyou, but then that also to me
is an indicator of how longsomeone has been in trucking,
because carriers who've been intrucking for a long time and
have ever worked with a factorknow that it's more than just

(36:49):
the rate.
Otr has never been the cheapestfactoring company in industry.
Quite frankly, we're not tryingto be like that's not.
That's not the space we play in.
We charge, I think, exactlywhat we need to charge to
service an account, to keep thecarrier successful and to cover

(37:11):
our costs of doing business andbeing a partner.
You know we will certainly, nowthat we offer different things,
we will bundle things.
If you're using our fuel card,we can go lower.
If you're using our bankingsolution.
We can go lower.
Obviously, you keep a lot ofthings in house and it makes
sense Like we can go lower.
But you know, years ago we hadsomeone joke like Gucci didn't

(37:35):
go on sale.
And I know, no, no, it doesn't.
And you know we are a Nordstrom, we are a boutique, we are
Chick-fil-A, we are a.
You know, when you come to usyou will get someone on the
phone and we will support youand I promise you you will
succeed if you're working withOTR.

(37:59):
With OTR, we're not just aboutbuying an invoice and charging
it back, and you know it's somuch more than that now.
I mean honestly, like when themarket took off after COVID,
there were people in the markettrying to say, well, factor for
free.
They're no longer factoring atall.
So you know it's like, andthat's fine, you know,
competition's healthy.
But you know, I think we'vestayed tried and true to what

(38:23):
we've been doing since day oneand that's continuing to evolve.
And, and you know, in thebeginning we said we're more
than just factoring company.
Today we truly are, you know, aplatform of smart technology
that helps carriers and wehappen to, yes, buy bills, but
we also do so much more and, atthe end of the day, we truly are

(38:46):
trying to show that if you workwith OTR, you stay in business
longer.
That's the mission critical.
Hey, you work with OTR, youwill succeed.

Speaker 1 (39:00):
Thank you for explaining all that.
I have such a level ofappreciate, a high level of
appreciation for someone who cansay about their business, like
in a business that you know, asyou said, the first question for
every prospect is what's yourrate.
So it's clear there's such acentral focus on the factoring
rate and for you to kind of havethe confidence to be able to

(39:23):
say, hey, we are not thecheapest and we're not trying to
be Like you have to be really,really confident in the business
behind you and how you canservice your customers outside
of price, to say something likethat and for it to hold water.
So it's funny to me too,because when my partner Vogert

(39:46):
and I got canned two years agoand we were just thinking of
what else we could do, he wantedto start a factoring business
and he's like we should get intofactoring.
It's similar to brokerage.
It's super fragmented.
There's like thousands oflittle guys and then there's a
few big good ones, but there'sroom for someone to maybe come
in and disrupt.
And I kept being like dude,it's all just a rate and it's

(40:09):
like it sounds so boring, likewhat am I?
Every call is going to be likewhat's your factoring rate and I
got nothing else to sell andclearly I didn't understand kind
of all the nuance behind it.
But I want to get into a littlebit of that because, as I put
thought into it, I just keptthinking all right, well, we

(40:29):
have to be able to offer otherthings besides a rate.
If we're going to do that andwe're not going to do it, to be
clear.

Speaker 3 (40:33):
So, there's nothing here you can share.

Speaker 1 (40:35):
That would you know, whatever, but I'm curious how,
over the years, from where youwere in 2011 to now where you
sit as the COO and the businessis, you know, one of the top in
the industry what have you allbuilt into the package that is
OTR to make it more attractivethan just a rate?

Speaker 3 (40:57):
Yeah Well, and it was funny.
I was talking to Clayton thismorning and I was like so what?
All you know how much should Isay Cause you know?
But we share an office whichyou know I love so much.
I don't know how many you knowexecutives share offices, but we
do, at OTR.
Know how many you knowexecutives share offices but we

(41:20):
do at OTR and it's, it's, it'spretty awesome because you stay
super connected and tight andlike the conversations he's
having, the conversations I'mhaving and you know Fritz, and
like like it's it's great andanyway, we're joking, and I was
like, don't worry, you know Inever give away the secret sauce
, but no, you know, look we've.
We continue to create solutionsbased on what our carriers are

(41:41):
asking for, and two of them youknow all of our solutions are on
our website, so none of that issecret.
Certainly, you know fuel, theyneed fuel.
We obviously have ourpartnership with M, which helps
with insurance.
Um, you know our bankingsolution with clutch, so we're

(42:02):
already paying them.
Why do we not make sure we'repaying them?
You know where they're at,which is on their phone, and you
know the clutch mobile bankingapp allows us to pay directly to
that, that bank account, andthen they can use it right away.
And our mobile app.
We were one of the firstfactoring companies in 2012 to
have a mobile app.

(42:23):
We were one of the firstfactoring companies to ever pay
off of a copy of a POD.
People thought we were crazy.

Speaker 1 (42:32):
Why is that so?
Why would paying off a copy ofa pod be a problem?

Speaker 3 (42:37):
well, you remember back in the day the trip packs
right members of the kiosks inthe at the truck stops trip pack
.
They would put all theiroriginals in the trip pack and
then they would be overnightedit is.
I don't remember that oh wow,how much am I way older than you
.
That that's so funny.

Speaker 1 (42:56):
I'm 34.
So, you do your own math there?
Yeah, I know not to ask.

Speaker 3 (43:02):
Okay, a little bit.
Yeah.
So the originals, the factoringcompanies will only pay off of
originals.
Because we had to build abroker and so many brokers would
, at that point, only pay off oforiginals.
Why the broker and so manybrokers would, at that point,
only pay off of originals?
Why?
Because the longer it takes toget the original, the more time

(43:23):
you have to pay the carrier.
Right, so it was a whole.
So here we are saying we'll payyou off the copy and then, when
we get the originals, we'll gobuild the broker and the
carriers are ecstatic.
You mean to tell me, I can sendyou a copy, you'll go ahead and
pay it, then you'll get theoriginals, and and so that was
like revolutionary.
Um, so you know, and, and again, just even getting someone on

(43:48):
the phone.
Look, it sounds so silly, butmoney is personal and when you
need to get paid, like, you needto get someone on the phone.
So you know, when we thinkabout, like what we're doing now
, today for the carrier, for thebroker, you know, with ePay and
now our broker payments, likewe've come full circle.
And you know, we want thebrokers to realize that if you

(44:12):
are loading an OTR carrier like,you're essentially working with
OTR.
So now we have brokers that arelike hey, they're phenomenal.
And we have carriers are likehey, they're phenomenal, and we
create a network where everybodygoes like working with OTR is
fantastic, and I use their fueland I use their banking.
You know, and you know, oh, youknow, like there's if they're

(44:45):
using DAT and they take a load,it immediately shows up in their
client portal or on theirmobile app.
So now, when they deliver theload, they can just upload the
paperwork, trying to makeeverything super seamless to
where, eventually, they justdrop paperwork.
Nothing is entered.
We handle it all.
I mean, we continue to thinkabout how we can evolve as a
business.
And so, yes, it's so much morethan factoring and it's like,
what more do you want?
Tms integrations, you know fueladvances, of course, you know

(45:10):
on top of, you know, but youknow 24-7 payments, and you know
, and, just continuing to thinkabout, but you know 24 seven
payments, and, and you know, and, and just continuing to think
about like, how are we doing itand how do we do it better?
You know.

Speaker 1 (45:25):
Yeah, no, a hundred percent.
I mean, it's such a.
There's clearly so muchcustomer centricity in how you
and your team think about thebusiness and it's one of the
things I always I never, Ialways respected how Kevin had
gotten his kind of tentaclestouching every part of the

(45:45):
industry and I guess neverrealized how beneficial it can
be for a business like factoringto have these ancillary
businesses that can be coupledtogether, bundled together to
create better offerings.
Because I just you know, if Iwas I'm just trying to put
myself into the shoes of a truckdriver or owner operator and I

(46:08):
could see how my first questionwhen you call would be about the
factoring rate.
But I could see how a goodsalesperson would help me by the
end of the call, realize thatwith just this one person I can
solve seven of my problemsversus just what percentage I'm
getting discounted or I'm beingdiscounted off my freight rate

(46:31):
and that's cool.
I mean it's a cool evolution ofthe business.
I'm curious if you could maybetry to touch on.
You know I want to get intoyour own personal kind of rise
from, you know, being the fourthor one of the first few hires
to now being the COO.
But before we go there.
I'm just curious in the seatyou're in now, what is the

(46:53):
experience or process like foryou and the leadership team as
you contemplate new solutions,as you contemplate new ways to
cater to the customer?
You've clearly added over theyears a number of different
pieces, I'm sure bit by bit.
I'm just curious what thatthought process looks like from
hey.

(47:13):
Carriers are complaining aboutnot having the right kind of
bank account to.
Let's put clutch out to theuniverse right.

Speaker 3 (47:24):
So you know, what I would say is like we've never
lost touch with the carriersthemselves.
Um, I, to this day, like know,I have so many carriers in my
phone that, because I was one ofthe first account managers, you
know, obviously, like, as as wecame up in the business, like
we all sort of took a differentpiece and you know, mine was

(47:48):
always very client focused.
I love our clients, like I loveour employees and I love our
clients and the people part ismy favorite, like on the upside,
if you understand what ourmission is and that's to

(48:22):
continue to help clients servicethem.
Well, you know, you know we weconstantly are checking, like
our Google reviews and like howpeople are feeling and making
sure that we're checking in withthem.
And so I, you know I say thatto say like we would hold focus
groups back in the day In thefirst few years we would have

(48:42):
something called happy truckingnew year.
It was absolutely free.
Our carriers would come inJanuary.
I would MC this thing, right, Iwas so nervous, but I would.
But we would set up a day ofeducation for the carriers.
We'd bring in like the GeorgiaDoT Officer Burns and he would
do a whole.
Like this is what I'm lookingfor when I do a roadside

(49:03):
inspection.
We would bring in insurance,like people that to talk about.
Like when you're getting yourrenewal, what are they looking
at?
We would talk about load board,you know.
We would talk about, you know,factoring, just like Q&A, like
what are you struggling with?
Like what do you need more of?
And it was in sessions likethat that we would get, you know

(49:24):
, our next idea.
And then we would all sit in aroom and talk about it.
And one of the things I lovemost about, you know, the team
that I work with at OTR is thatwe're very collaborative and
nobody holds back.
In other words, like that's agood thing, because nobody's
just like co-signing on, like Ihave an idea, okay, we'll just

(49:45):
do that.
It's like, well, why would wedo that?
Well, if we're going to do that, we should really be doing that
Right, and you know, and whenwe all get in the room and we do
that, it's just, it's awesome.
Like we don don't.
Nobody builds or does anythingin a vacuum, that we're not all
sort of picking apart and thencalling a carrier and saying,
like what do you think?

Speaker 1 (50:07):
how do you think that kind of culture developed?

Speaker 3 (50:13):
you know, you've heard kevin say this, this, and
we also hired people that lovedto play team sports or were
really driven.
I think this beautiful thingabout OTR is it really is a
bunch of very competitive yetreally solid, good humans.

(50:36):
That that came together andthat team, like a joke, that the
early, you know otr team islike the 90s chicago bulls.
You know fritz is phil jacksonlike and he let all of us be are
you mj?
No, I'm scotty pippen, I'm okay, yeah yeah, and everybody needs

(50:57):
a Scotty.
But like I'm always, like I'mScotty, you know, and we would
joke in the, you know, in theearly years I'd say, you know, I
don't need to be Michael Jordan, like I'll be Scotty, somebody
else can be Michael.
But all you know, it wasn'ttill the last dance came out,
the documentary that people likeunderstood.
I was like, did none of youknow?

(51:18):
Like, because we hire so young,I'm like did none of you know
about michael and scotty andthis whole thing?
And I don't think they didreally.
But I used to post picturesaround the office of michael and
scotty, like be michael or bescotty, just be one of them, you
know.
And we had our dennis rodmanand our Sue Karen.
We everybody played their role,um and uh, and it was really,

(51:44):
really fun.
And we you know Fritz alwayssaid like it's, it's the most
fun when we went together and wecelebrate together.
And um, you know, we werealways, we were really young.
So we came up together too, likewe would, we were just together
a lot.
You know, we've grown uptogether, we got married

(52:04):
together, we've gotten had kids.
You know divorces, like lifewe're lifing together.
So you know, at this point,there's just an immense amount
of trust and the way we show upfor each other and work really,
really hard.
Like I used to joke OTR was myfirst baby because my sister

(52:25):
would say, like you know, you'renot saving lives, right?
Like you're not, you're notdelivering babies.
And I was like, of course I'mnot.
I'm not a doctor, but like whatI do matters to me.
I really care about thecarriers, I really care about I
think what we do is important.
Freight is the backbone ofAmerica, so it's important, I

(52:49):
love that so much.

Speaker 1 (52:51):
I mean, it just puts me right back into my own
mindset, mindset of, yeah, we'renot like saving lives.
However, it feels reallyimportant to do the work we do
when you're as passionate aboutit as you are, clearly, and
you're with a team of people whowill liken themselves to the

(53:11):
Chicago Bulls of the 90s.
It's like that's a group ofpeople who are so committed to
something like they have thisvision for what they want to be
and they're willing to dowhatever it takes to become that
thing and to achieve that thing.
And when you see yourselveshaving that success over multi
years and years a decade plusfor your team it's like the

(53:34):
trust gets to an unprecedentedlevel.
The confidence gets to a prettydang high level and like the,
the importance feels like itgets to such a high level
because there are so many peoplelike intertwined, counting on
one another.
I mean, how big is the otr teamtoday?

Speaker 3 (53:50):
at our highest.
You know we are pushing 400.
We are know less than that now,but yeah it's.
We've certainly grown it's.
It's.
It's been fun, you know, and notwithout its trials and
tribulations.
You know, we've all gonethrough stuff and we don't
co-sign each other's BS andwe've, you know, but that's what

(54:13):
makes it awesome, right, it'slike, and this freight cycle, as
you know, but that's what makesit awesome, right, it's like,
and this freight cycle, as youknow, is so like this like the
highs are high and the lows arelow.
So there's good years, there'stough years, you know.
Um, yet it's been amazing.
Like you know, we've had peoplethat started with us as an
intern, you know, drew now asour general counsel, like went

(54:36):
to college, passed the bar, likepeople that have literally
worked so hard and not just saidlike I'm gonna go work at otr,
but like I'm a career otr person, you know, like I'm gonna drink
the kool-aid and that's not abad thing and I'm like it's not
a bad thing.
You know, I don't get thesepeople that don't love their job

(54:57):
Like go find something you do,like it's there's tons of, you
know, opportunity out there.
Like you know, I don't know whyanybody would spend their time
not doing something that theydon't.

Speaker 1 (55:11):
You know they don't feel good and passionate about,
but I used to say the same thingto my team is you know this job
isn't for everyone and youdon't even have to be in love
with the idea of moving trucks,but you can love the process of
working on a team with reallygood people who are working on

(55:33):
that team with you trying toaccomplish something.
And it isn't for everyone andyou know you got to spend.
I understand there's a littlebit of a touch grass concept to
what I'm about to say, but it'slike you know you're going to
spend eight, nine hours a day,every day, working, and that's
like likely half or a little bitmore than your waking hours in

(55:55):
a day.
Why wouldn't you do whateverpossible to find something you
enjoy, at least a little bit?
right, I mean it's like you onlyget one shot at this life.
And I understand you got to paybills and not everyone has 100
job offers that they can pickfrom.
But if you really don't enjoyyour job, you got to do whatever

(56:15):
you can to find a job that youwill enjoy.
I mean, it's just that thingthat has always been really
apparent to me.

Speaker 3 (56:22):
I completely agree.
I mean, in all of our firstinterviews when we were hiring,
it was like we needed to makesure we hired the right people
because we really, honestly, bythe time we could bring someone
on, we desperately needed them,but we needed it to be the right
person too.
But I used to say to peoplelike you, spend more time here
than you do with your own family.

(56:43):
Like you, you should enjoy it.
If there's anything you shouldever be selfish about, it's your
career.
You know, like, figure out whatyou want to do, but in other
words, like, don't come hereunless you think this is like
what you want to do and what youcould be passionate about,
Cause we, like you know we'reall in this together and luckily
that first I mean I would sayour first, you know, even 50

(57:04):
employees like it was just, itwas magical.
Like it was not that it isn'ttoday.
Like it's just different whenyou get bigger, you know, people
feel like, do they notice me?
And it's like, yes, of course,Like, but every, every
generation, if you will like, ofhiring class that comes in has
to be willing to like bring thenext one along, Right, Like if

(57:28):
you're just wanting me to be theglue, like that's never going
to be enough.
Like I I'm always going to sayI care and I love all of our
employees, but everybody has tobe part of the glue and say,
like I'm in it and you know, andthat's what we're trying to
always do continue to like,bring to the office is, you know

(57:48):
, we've done a really great job,like over the years, Um, I
think of of really making surethat, like we don't lose touch
of, you know, the OTR.
What's special about OTR?

Speaker 1 (58:04):
Talk to me about your own kind of rise, because you
started as, like, an accountmanager doing two jobs for two
companies, or maybe four or fivejobs between the two companies
or functions.
At least you rose to now be theCOO of the business.

(58:30):
So can you just talk to meabout what do you think are the
qualities or aspects that youdisplayed that led to that kind
of rise?
Because I just think these arethe coolest stories.
I think it's really cool tointerview founders who build
business, but I think almostmore cool is seeing someone who
comes in as like the lowestlevel possible and rises to the
top and like how do they do?
it is, I think, fascinating.

Speaker 3 (58:52):
Oh, thanks, don't be modest Let me, let me preface.

Speaker 1 (58:56):
Let me preface, before you give your answer,
that she's not going to bemodest.
She's going to give us the hardtruth and it's not going to
sound arrogant or whatever.

Speaker 3 (59:05):
Hard truth, hard truth, hard truth.
I'm very I want to be, you know, a part of the success.
You know I, I genuinely want tolike be up there in it.
I want, you know, I want apiece of that Like and um.

(59:26):
You know, if somebody's got alead, why can't it be me?
You know I, I love being a partof the success.
You know I don't know if it's myfather and his.
You know, bronx, like you knowyou say, you know, you say what
you mean, but it's like I'venever.
You know, from the time I was13 on, I actually lived with my

(59:48):
dad and my uncle.
My uncle was in the MarineCorps, my father was this crazy
radio host and I'm comfortablewith men, so that part never
bothered me, like being in avery male dominated.
You know, when you hear peopletalk about freight and there's
so much like I'm like none ofthat.
I never felt.
I never felt like I wasn't withthem.

(01:00:10):
You know I played basketballwith the guys at lunch at the
accounting firm and I worked outwith the baseball players and
high school.
Like I, I'm comfortable inthose settings and so for me it
was just making sure that.
You know if, if it was, youknow, creating new process or

(01:00:30):
hiring, or being a cheerleaderfor, like, the carriers and what
they needed, or you knowwhatnot, like why couldn't it be
me?
Um, and I would say, as theyears went on, you know, um,
more and more responsibility wasadded and I welcomed it.
More and more responsibilitywas added and I welcomed it.

(01:00:51):
You know I, if, if somethingneeded to get done, you know
I'll do it.
Um, because I felt, I don'tknow, I, I understood we were
building something and and itwas exciting and, um, I took on
the challenges and sometimes notknowing what to do, but you
know, that's where Fritz comesin, like somebody who guided us
but also allowed for us, if wedid fail to, you know, do it

(01:01:13):
gracefully, no pun intended, andlike, work through those things
or collaborate enough togetherto be like we're not doing it
like that, or we are, or I wouldchallenge you know sometimes
what we were doing, and I thinkthat earned respect.
It was like, why are we doingit that way?
Like I don't, and so it justsort of came naturally.
And then, in 2016, I actuallygot sober and I tell you that

(01:01:41):
piece of it because I don'tthink I'd be where I am today if
I hadn't.
You know it's definitely a partof.
You know, if I'm not going tobe modest, you know it's like
well then, thank God, I, youknow, went and got a 12 step
program and have, you know, youknow, coming up on eight and a

(01:02:03):
half years of sobriety.
Congratulations, thank you.
Half years of sobriety, I thankyou.
I definitely know that if Ihadn't made that choice at that
stage of my career, I would notbe where I am today, 100%, 100%.
Um, and you know, I know whatit looks like to continue down

(01:02:25):
that road.
I did not know what it lookslike to continue down that road.
I did not know what it lookedlike not, and to go get help.
And I quietly did.
And you know, since then, Iwould say the team at OTR does,
has known, you know, about mysobriety and is insanely
supportive and it's been amazingbecause along my journey I've

(01:02:49):
helped people, you know, ontheirs and you know that's been
a gift and so it's just reallycool because you know I work
with people who love to workhard, play hard, and I was one
of them too and I still am.
But you know, it's justdifferent now, like when I go
out, you know mine doesn'tnecessarily have alcohol on it,

(01:03:12):
but that's OK, like I still goout for drinks and still have a
great time.
But but yeah, that was.
You know, I don't know ifthat's not what got me to COO.
It's certainly innovation andand you know, partners and
execution and hiring the rightpeople.
I work with incredible peopleand so you know, knowing who to

(01:03:35):
work with and who to hire andwho to bet on and who to let and
who to delegate to and who tolet run, and you know, and then
they do it.
You, truthfully, it makes myjob easier, right?

Speaker 1 (01:03:49):
100.
So if I heard you well which Ihad I thought I had summarized
your answer until you hit me towith the sobriety and then you
went into another.
So I'm gonna, I'm gonna gothrough what I heard, okay, um,
so advocating for yourself is isa key part, this and you talked
about putting yourself outthere, wanting to be a part of

(01:04:12):
the success, not being shy orafraid or uncomfortable about
the male-dominated situation,which also, I think, is a
non-don't-be-a-victim mentality.
Don't be a victim mentality.
You know, if you want to getsomewhere, you can't look at the
room around you and see it asan obstacle as much as like I
belong here, I'm going to use myvoice.

(01:04:34):
You talked a lot.
A lot of you didn't say thesewords, but you alluded to the
idea that you were never afraidto use your voice, whether that
was volunteering to do whateverit takes to get the job done
which to me, is another piece ofwhat helps you rise is that
kind of do whatever it takesmentality, but also to challenge
the room and to challenge thestatus quo and to say, hey, I

(01:04:55):
think we should double checkthat or think about that twice,
or whatever which does garnerrespect.
I mean, I think groupthink isone of the biggest inhibitors of
innovation in businesses andit's so easy to just want to
fall in line with everybodyaround you when the exec team is

(01:05:16):
contemplating a new idea,because it's just easier to do
that than to possibly stick outas the person who was wrong,
right.
So a lot of that I'm picking upfrom your answer, and then I
commend the kind of willingnessand vulnerability to speak to
the sobriety, and I just believepeople who have gone through
what you've gone through aretremendously resilient.

(01:05:38):
People have had their asseskicked and had to put their ego
in check and deal with whatfeels like embarrassment at
first of sharing that withpeople and feeling like there's
something wrong with me.
And the reality is there'snothing wrong with you, there's
nothing wrong with any of usthat have gone through things
like that where we've had to putsomething down because we just,
you know, enjoy it a little bittoo much.

(01:06:00):
And the amount of resilience ittakes to get up and stand there
with confidence and go throughthe next phase and tackle all of
that.
Stand there with confidence andgo through the next phase and
tackle all of that it'sextremely commendable.
I respect the hell out of itand I think it, I think it
absolutely.
You said that's not why you'rethis.
Well, you said that helped, butit's not why you're the COO,
but I would maybe add that it's.
It's probably a contributingfactor to why you are, because I

(01:06:24):
bet you have a lot of respectfrom people who appreciate that.
They know you, truly know youfor who you authentically are
and I just commend it.

Speaker 3 (01:06:33):
Thank you, that's so nice and I do try to lead with
vulnerability, just because Ithink I mean, I don't know, it's
like once you let thetoothpaste out of the tube, you
can't get it back in.
You cannot put it back in.
Yeah, this is just like.
It's just me and I am.

(01:06:54):
I am vulnerable, I have to be,um.
You know, I think when you do I, you know, regularly go to
meetings I work with others inrecovery.
I'm very passionate about ityou end up really discovering
like a lot more about yourself,because a lot of times, when you
were in the thick of it, likeyou were, in my case, very

(01:07:14):
functional, right, like I'mworking really hard, I'm getting
things done.
I'm zero to 90 in a lot ofphases.
Right Like, if I like something, I want more of it.
So, um, so you're right, Maybeit did have something to do with
where I'm at.
You know, I.
I remember when I first wentand got help, I thought, god,
this is like this is the lowestof the low right, like this is

(01:07:37):
like this is how you know, andum.
And then I started to walk intorooms and look around and I was
like I want to go where thesuccessful people are, because
it didn't.
It didn't occur to me in thebeginning like successful people
actually like really successfulpeople, are actually in
recovery too, until I found thisone meeting and I was like

(01:07:57):
pulled in.
Part of it was that I pulled inand, as silly as it sounds,
like I could tell from the cars,like who are they?
It's a Saturday morning and Iguess if you show up to a
meeting on a Saturday morningyou must really want it.
You know recovery, so, but itwas incredible experience.
I have met over the years someof the most incredible people

(01:08:19):
that are mentors, you know, notjust in recovery but in the
professional world, and how theylead themselves and it is being
authentically yourself, youknow, and it is not being afraid
.
You know I'm definitely not oneof those people that like,
knows what I like because of thebillboard, right, like I've had
to really like what do I liketo do?
Because when you first give upwhat it was that you like to do,

(01:08:42):
I assure you you don't knowyourself at all.
You know.
You don't know I'm like I usedto like patios and pitchers of
beer, like that's.
You know.
So more than that.
But anyway, all that to say, Ithink it's been a really special
several years of watching OTRgrow and I'm grateful I've been

(01:09:06):
a part of it, you know, and it'sjust, it's because of my
sobriety that I've been able toto certainly be a part of it.
So.

Speaker 1 (01:09:16):
Well, vulnerability is the key to connection and if
you lead with vulnerability andyou're willing to share things
like this with your team, withthe world and a podcast like
this, you are inviting people toconnect with you.
You are offering them, you know, something meaningful to you
and not knowing what they'll dowith it, not knowing if they'll

(01:09:37):
try to use it against you orjudge you and all those kind of
negative thought patterns wehave about ourselves when we're
going to that place of beingvulnerable and talking about
things that we've struggled with.
But I've done this before withmy own struggles and you know, I

(01:09:58):
talked to my employee base atone point about some of my
darkest challenges I've enduredand like the compassion I was
met with and all of a sudden, Ihad meetings with all these
people where they set up andthey wanted to tell me about
their own challenges, and it'slike people want to meet you
where you are and when you showthat you're willing to be human
and talk about your own issues.
It's like it's a freeingfeeling for others to be like
wait, I'm not the only one withproblems, like and the problems

(01:10:19):
can be so different.
It could be gambling, you'd bedrinking, you could be smoking,
it could be, you know, videogames or shopping.
It could be anything that justis an unhealthy practice in your
life.
That's like weighing you downand you're feeling guilt or
shame about, but at the end ofthe day you come to realize that
we're all struggling withsomething, and the ones who look

(01:10:41):
like they aren't probably arejust as much.
And the sooner you're willingto talk to people about it, the
sooner you can free yourself ofall the kind of negativity in
your own head that there'ssomething wrong with you,
because there's nothing wrongwith any of us.
We've all just had thecircumstances we've dealt with
in our life that got us to wherewe are.
But those choices are choiceswe've made, but they're not
choices we have to live withforever.

(01:11:02):
We get to make new choicesevery day about who we want to
be and how we want to be.

Speaker 2 (01:11:05):
So I don't know, I just appreciate you sharing all
that.

Speaker 3 (01:11:09):
Thanks yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:11:13):
So, anyways, where do I want to go from here?
Let's talk a little bit aboutthe last two years in the space.
It's been a really hard fewyears for everybody.
I think for factors too.
I'm certainly thinking aboutbrokers and carriers, and what

(01:11:37):
has that been like in the OTRworld or just even in the
factoring world in general?
I'm not looking for specificsaround numbers, but I assume as
interest rates rose, that makesyour business more challenging.
Can you talk a little bit aboutthat, the impact of interest
rates to your business,something like that that you
can't control, what you can dowithin the business to navigate

(01:12:01):
those changes?
And then I want to talk alittle bit about how the
industry at large has dealt withthe last two years and what you
guys are seeing.

Speaker 3 (01:12:09):
Yeah, I'm so glad you brought that up because most
people don't realize that theinterest rates and how they
affect our business from thecost of capital right.
And so the past two years havebeen insane as far as like.
I remember when the market tooka dive like the nose dive what
was that Like?

Speaker 1 (01:12:34):
late 2022 and 2023.
Yeah, at the end of 2022,leading into early 2023.

Speaker 3 (01:12:40):
Yeah and so, and I remember shortly thereafter a
partner of ours in the spacecalled me and he said are you
going to be willing to factorfor carriers for free because of
what they're going through?
And I was like, for free, no,for free.

(01:13:05):
And then also carriers startcalling in, like I need a lower
factoring rate because I'mgetting paid significantly less
by the broker.
And it's like, right, but ourinterest rate on the cost of
capital?
Like we have to borrow themoney that buys the invoice and
we're only doing it at a certainplace.
And then, on top of it, nowbrokers are not paying us in 30,

(01:13:28):
35 days.
Right now they want 40 or 45days.
And so when you talk about acarrier who needs that money
today, probably you know.
You know when things are greatthey can wait a day or two.
If you know it doesn't matteras much.
They might turn it out.
They might turn all of theirinvoices in at the end of the

(01:13:49):
week, but when times are tough,they're living load to load and
when they need to get paid, theyneed to get paid by us that day
, and so we've got to get themoney out.
We're not getting it in.
It's costing us double what itcosted us, you know, previously
to purchase it.
And it's like the last thing wewant to do is raise our rates

(01:14:10):
when they're struggling.
And so you know it's.
It's funny the carriers don'trealize, like when they're doing
well, we're doing well, whenthey're not doing well, we're
not doing well and we're nottrying to make it harder for
them.
Like, if anything, even werealized, you know, as an
example, you know, when acarrier gets charged back an
invoice, let's say, let's say Ipay the carrier $1,000 and then

(01:14:35):
come to find out, you knowthey're, they were late and the
broker's charging them 500legitimately was their fault,
right?
They they're like yes, I was, Iwas late and I'm taking the
deduction.
It's like okay, well, bob, yougot to pay the $500 back.
Our non-recourse doesn't coveryour inability to service the

(01:14:56):
load the way you said it would.
And he says well, grace, I can'tpay it back right now.
Like, I've got my truck, note,on Friday, I've got my insurance
.
I also have to pay the driver.
There's no way I can give youthat $500.
Well, bob, when can you give itto me?
Well, I'll give you a hundreddollars over the next five weeks
.
And imagine if you havethousands of carriers who want

(01:15:17):
to do that and you're managingthousands of carriers who want,
and then, on top of it, theywant to pay back the $500 over
the five weeks at 0%, they'renot going to pay you right?
They're not like this.

Speaker 1 (01:15:35):
It's a free loan essentially, isn't it?

Speaker 3 (01:15:37):
Yeah, I know it is for sure, it's just these are
the things that we're dealingwith on a regular basis as a
factoring company, and so youthink about all those factors
who are just trying to win onrate.
It's like if we're struggling,I know you're definitely
struggling and you know I feellike we have done a great job to
not struggle and I I say thatyou know carefully because I'm

(01:16:00):
not trying to, you know, brag,but I feel like what we did and
have done over the years.
First of all, our system isproprietary, so we built all of
our own software and thealgorithms and the things,
everything that we have at playthat allows us to understand if
we want to purchase an invoiceand that's been one of my

(01:16:21):
favorite parts to work with ouroperations team and the business
intelligence, rob and his teamand really understanding should
we or shouldn't we buy this andhow do we use AI and algorithms,
all these things to verify anddo it right, because if we can
do it right upfront, we don'tplay that game on the back end

(01:16:45):
of chasing money and that'scostly to everyone.
You lose clients that way andit costs your factory and
business a lot of money.
You know the cost of capitaland time value and all of that,
so you know doing it rightAssessing fraud.
Fraud is a nightmare.
I don't think you know no one'sshocked by hearing that it's

(01:17:07):
like what are we all going to doBesides?
Come together.
You know no one's shocked byhearing that it's like what are
we all going to do besides?
Come together, shareinformation, work with the other
companies that are developinggreat tools.
You know we've got data.
How do we share the data?
Like you know, it's reallyeverybody coming together to
combat this at this pointbecause it's craziness, like
it's crazy.

Speaker 1 (01:17:27):
Where does it hit the factoring company?
Like what does fraud look likewhen it's infiltrating your camp
?
Like how do you guys get kindof screwed over on fraud?

Speaker 3 (01:17:37):
Yeah, double brokering, carriers, stealing
MCs and signing up with OTRunder that MC, and then even the
most recent one, a carrier.
It was a really sophisticatedkind of freight or fraud
situation where not only didthey steal a carrier's identity,

(01:18:01):
but then they planted a broker,an actual agent at a brokerage,
and really created and itwasn't just OTR, it actually was
.

Speaker 1 (01:18:12):
They got a real person hired at a real brokerage
.
Oh wow, that's okay, keep going.

Speaker 3 (01:18:20):
And by the time, the brokerage realized, like wait,
we've got to bill our customerfor all these.
And they go to bill thecustomer, the customer's like I
didn't run any of this.
So you know, it's pretty crazy,the fraud that continues to

(01:18:41):
happen.
But I, what I love is that ourteam is, we find these things.
We immediately, you know, we'rebuilding things, even, we're
immediately thinking about if webuild're immediately thinking
about, if we build a bankingsolution, if we build a fuel
card, if we create, you know, onour mobile app, you know, pay
me now fuel advance, whatever,what are all the scenarios in
which someone will try to createfraud.

(01:19:02):
We will invite everyone in.
Let's brainstorm, let's talkabout it.
How are we exposing, you know,risk and and and at that point,
you know we're trying to getahead of all of these things.
But you know, it's like, youknow, no one's can do it
perfectly, and so we learn too,but we try and learn.

(01:19:26):
You know, we try and learn veryquickly and hopefully you know
minimally, you know minimaldamage minimal damage, that's
right.
Minimal damage.
Hey, that's my job.
I gotta, I gotta, I gottaanswer to people if we don't,
and so, um, you know, it'sreally, really important and we

(01:19:46):
have a lot of sops in place anda lot of things, too, that our
team knows.
Like I say, if you wouldn't buyit with your money, you don't
buy it with OTRs, like, I think,always, this is the way we
thought about it in the verybeginning.
You know, and it doesn't matterhow big we get, like if you hit
, if that processes and thatpayment goes out, it's like as

(01:20:08):
if it was your own.

Speaker 1 (01:20:10):
Yeah, what are you all seeing?
I mean, you guys have one ofthe, I think, earliest eyes on
potential market shifts, becauseyou're seeing all the invoices.
What kind of information areyou seeing?
Everyone's calling the recoveryhas started and the recovery,
the recovery, the recovery, andI'm hopeful that it has, but I

(01:20:32):
don't know that I've seen theevidence to support it.
What are you seeing on your,your side of things?

Speaker 3 (01:20:38):
We're not, you know.
I mean we're not not, but we'renot you know.
Look, you know we we areprivate equity backed and you
know we have a budget that wecome up with every year, and so
it's really important that wetry and guess as accurately or
forecast as accurately aspossible.

(01:20:59):
So sorry, You're fine, no, no.

Speaker 1 (01:21:05):
Dogs are welcome on the show, are they, moose?
It's okay, buddy, you're young.

Speaker 3 (01:21:08):
No, sir.
And so you know, honestly,recently, like volume, january
is a tough month anyway, becausemost people take time off and
you know we see it, just it'sslower.
Freight rates have beenslightly better than we expected
, but, um, you know, and we arealso very, very hopeful.

(01:21:30):
I didn't, you know, I wouldlike to think that it will
happen this year.
I don't think where we've beenis, you know, the new normal,
but I and I do expect rates tohopefully go up.
I'm excited about, you know, theeconomy and you know what's to
come, certainly what's happenedin California with the fires and

(01:21:53):
so sad.
You know.
Even you know actual rebuild,like there's a lot of rebuilding
to be done.
You know for the next severalmonths.
Or even you know peoplepotentially moving because
that's so I don't know you knowpeople potentially moving
because that's so, I don't know.
You know we, we do know thatsometimes, like these type of
events do can trigger likeobviously, you know, um, freight

(01:22:19):
sort of movement as we watchthings rebuild or as we watch
relief going into those areas.
Um, yeah, so it will beinteresting to see, but but no,
I can't say like, right now I'mnot going to tell you.
I think we're on the trajectorytoday.
No.

Speaker 1 (01:22:36):
Do I think we?

Speaker 3 (01:22:36):
will be From your mouth to God's ears.
I hope so.
You know I'm not going to no,we'll see.

Speaker 1 (01:22:46):
I appreciate the apprehensiveness.

Speaker 3 (01:22:48):
I'm going to.
I am going to do everything wecan to hit and exceed what we
have forecasted, which we thinkis reasonable growth, and we
will continue to try and exceedexpectations.

Speaker 1 (01:23:12):
But nothing right now points to we're we're on a
takeoff.
Yeah, what's the biggest thingyou're working on right now for
the future with respect tocontinuing to build and turn otr
into like the factoring companyfor the space?

Speaker 3 (01:23:24):
automation of, um, you know invoices and doing
those.
I listen.
I think we will never lose thathuman contact because for
myself, the team at OTR, theveteran management team that's
been there, everyone the peoplepart is what's really special

(01:23:47):
about OTR the connection that wehave with carriers.
But you know our algorithms andautomation can buy better than
a human looking at a piece ofpaper, you know, on a screen.
So certainly, utilizing, youknow, tools to help us purchase
invoices and be able to do so 24, seven, at any point, at any

(01:24:12):
time a carrier says I want toget paid and I want to get them
paid, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:24:17):
Yep.
So, speed to pleasing yourcustomer.

Speaker 3 (01:24:21):
That's right.

Speaker 1 (01:24:21):
Good thing to focus on.

Speaker 3 (01:24:22):
Carriers need money.
We're going to get them paidbrokers too.
So it's you know it's both thebroker, carrier and broker
payments.
Like, how do we make thateasier for for both sides?
Because if you can pay thecarrier, why can't?
Why?
Why does the broker need to reaudit it?
Why, if I've already auditedthe paperwork, would the broker

(01:24:47):
ever need?
If we did our job and you cantrust that we did and most
brokers should trust that OTR is, why are you spending time and
money reauditing it to send itto your customer?

Speaker 1 (01:25:01):
Yeah, and so this is what I think that's you know
we're trying to convince themarket right.

Speaker 3 (01:25:06):
Like you don't, you get it from us, like we will
immediately pay our carrier bill, your customer, and that's what
you know, that's what ePay cando.
So you know we're continuing toextend, sort of you know the
evolution of what we'recurrently doing and how do we do
it more quickly and how do wetake some of the process out

(01:25:29):
that's duplicated after we'redone with it.

Speaker 1 (01:25:34):
Yeah, I think that's going to ultimately come down to
trust and your ability toconvince the market that they
can trust you, and I thinkthat's done over time through
execution and proving it, and Icertainly think your team has
proven quite a bit.
Maybe there's just a little bitmore.
So my last question for you,and then I'll let you go what

(01:25:55):
advice would you give toindividuals in the industry
whether they're a brokerage orfactoring or tech vendors,
wherever it is who want tofollow a similar career track to
your own, you know, coming intoa company when it's early,
beginning and rising to be theCEO of the business over 12, 13

(01:26:18):
years, whatever the timeframehas been?

Speaker 3 (01:26:22):
All right, I don't know if this is advice, but this
is a story of like, of how Ialways thought about it.
You know, kevin and Fritz arefirst cousins or second cousins
sorry, second cousins and Iwould imagine, years after we
started.
I would imagine them if theywere out to dinner, right, and

(01:26:45):
they're having like a drink andthey're sitting around talking
about, like you know, yearsafter all, the success of these
businesses and they're like youknow what, like let's play a
game.
If we had to do it all overagain and you could only pick
five, who would you pick?
Okay, you had to start NTG andyou had to start OTR and you

(01:27:06):
could only pick five.
You know, like let to start NTGand you had to start OTR and
you could only pick five.

Speaker 1 (01:27:11):
Let's say you had to do that with Molo, right To be
clear.
So I'm laughing because that'snot a hypothetical Bogart and I
have literally done that.
Oh, we have.
Okay, these are realconversations.
I don't think I'm unique tothat.
I think these are realconversations that people who
have been in our seats have had,so I can appreciate this.

Speaker 3 (01:27:27):
I have actually thought if that was ever a
conversation like I need to knowthat they're saying my name and
the only way that I can knowthat they're saying my name is
if I show up and I make adifference and I make an impact
and I and I, just I continue tohelp drive the business forward.
And you know, I love to tellyou every day I'm doing that,

(01:27:52):
you know, but I jokingly, I'mlike, every day I'm like, you
know I do.
I do genuinely want to helpothers in the business, like
achieve what they're trying toachieve and collaborate.
And you know, if, if we saywe're doing this, I want to be a
part of helping, make sure it'sgoing to get done, and and that

(01:28:12):
is using your voice, and thatis 100% like being in the rooms
and not being afraid tochallenge, like you know, an
idea, and I don't ever want tobe the woman in the room that's
just talking to talk.
You know I'm not anybody's hypewoman.
You know sometimes I'll saynothing, sometimes I'll say a
lot of things.
It's just picking and choosingyour moments where you know

(01:28:38):
either you have an idea or youdon't, or you're just
challenging it or you're, youknow, mentoring someone else.
Or you know you're having adrink after work and you're, you
know, coming up with an idea ona napkin, which is part of our
story.
You know it's like just be oneof the five.
You know, try to be one of thefive.
If you're trying to be one ofthe five, that's probably even

(01:29:01):
enough.
You know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (01:29:02):
Yeah, a hundred percent.
So I love that, thanks.
I love visualizing and creatinga motivational track for
yourself, like if they'resitting here, my name's got to
be said, and that can be such apowerful driver to just put
yourself back in thatvisualization every day and be
like, hey, if I'm going to be inthat five, I need to do this

(01:29:25):
right now, I need to get thisdone.
So thank you so much, you'vebeen an incredible guest.
I feel like I've learned a lotabout factoring today, but, more
importantly, just learned moreabout you, and you're an awesome
person and I thank you verymuch for coming on the show.

Speaker 3 (01:29:41):
Thank you, andrew.
This is great.
Thank you for having me.
I'll see you soon.

Speaker 1 (01:29:45):
Alright, everyone.
That's all we got.
See you next week.

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

40s and Free Agents: NFL Draft Season

Dateline NBC

The Bobby Bones Show

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Ep. #53: Grace Maher, COO of OTR Solutions

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}40s and Free Agents: NFL Draft Season

Dateline NBC

The Bobby Bones Show

All Episodes

Ep. #53: Grace Maher, COO of OTR Solutions

40s and Free Agents: NFL Draft Season