February 22, 2025 • 30 mins
Join Debbie from New World Normal and Melissa from Fully Mindful for a lively, in-depth discussion on the big issues facing us today—right from the heart of local activism to the challenges of doing business as usual. In this monthly live crossover episode, recorded on the third Monday at 5:30 PM Pacific, our hosts dive into topics that range from political reform to personal mindfulness.
Episode Highlights:
- The Orange Elephant in the Room:
- Explore the metaphor of the “orange elephant” as a symbol for the unspoken challenges in today’s political climate and societal norms.
- Delve into the frustrations with “business as usual” in a time of governmental turmoil and social unrest.
- Civic Engagement & Local Activism:
- Discuss practical ways to make your voice heard—from calling your local representatives to attending town hall meetings.
- Consider how localized efforts can drive broader policy changes on universal health care, livable wages, and accessible education.
- Community Building & Social Innovation:
- Reflect on the importance of fostering genuine community connections in an age of individualism and digital isolation.
- Share ideas on redesigning suburbs and cities to nurture inclusivity and community spirit.
- Environmental & Social Justice:
- Debate pressing issues like climate change, clean energy, and the role of corporate and government policies in protecting our environment.
- Discuss how diversity, equity, and inclusion can pave the way for a more resilient society.
- Mindfulness, Wellness & Resilience:
- Learn about upcoming breathwork classes, resilience boot camps, and other mindfulness practices designed to help you navigate these challenging times.
- Enjoy humorous yet insightful asides—from the “orange sticky pad” to quirky anecdotes that remind us to keep perspective.
- Call to Action:
- We invite you to join the conversation! Share your thoughts on what you’re fighting for and how you’re contributing to the change you want to see.
- Connect with us on Instagram and through our podcast platforms to stay updated on future live sessions and events.
This episode is perfect for anyone interested in political activism, community building, and practical mindfulness. Whether you’re looking to engage locally or simply curious about new ideas for a better future, tune in and get inspired!
Find Debbie at The New World Normal: https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/new-world-normal/id1558776039
Join the Fully Mindful Community: ✨ Subscribe & Review: If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify—it helps others find the show!
✨ Stay Connected: Follow @the_fully_mindful on Instagram for mindfulness tips, breathwork insights, and more!
✨ Free Breathwork Sessions: Email me at info@thefully.mindful.com to get signed up for your first session for free of my monthly Unwind Your Mind session.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Debbie (00:01):
You are now live.
Here we are waiting for Melissafrom the Fully Mindful.
We are starting up tangents andsidebars again.
We are shooting for the thirdMonday of every month at 530
Pacific.
Here we are.
The third Monday of the month.
(00:21):
Is it already the third Mondayof February?
The third Monday of the month?
Is it already the third Mondayof February?
Now I want to go back and count, but I believe it is and we are
going to talk about.
There she is.
We decided that we are going totalk about the elephant in the
room and it will probably bethat topic, but different
(00:49):
aspects of that topic for theforeseeable future Hi.
Melissa.
Hey, I know how I feel thatit's just weird to try and do
business as normal, or businessas usual when there seems to be
a dumpster fire happening in ourgovernment right now.
So why not give us this outlet,all of us?
(01:11):
We're going to actually talkabout it, instead of saying it
feels weird to talk aboutbusiness.
But I'm just going to talkabout business and my offers
Like why don't we just talkabout it and then we can?
I'm not saying, not to talkabout your business and your
offers, especially if you're inthe wellness space.
I feel like we're going to talkabout something orange, I
already said the orange elephantin the room it's like trying to
(01:34):
do this, it's like I'm just notgoing to acknowledge something
orange in the room.
Melissa (01:37):
For those of you who aren't watching, I have an
orange sticky pad right in frontof my face.
Yeah, definitely colorseverything.
Debbie (01:44):
Orange sticky pad right in front of my face yeah,
definitely colors everything.
And so, yeah, and I know thatyou and I've been sharing
resources on how to stay engagedand also saying which I'm sure
we'll touch on continuously forthe foreseeable future, yeah,
but I know we talked abouttaking a different tact tonight
(02:08):
and I was actually just talkingto my daughter about the topic
and it was getting kind ofexcited, exciting thinking about
we're talking about.
What are we fighting for?
So we know a lot of what wedon't want, what.
What is it we want?
Melissa (02:25):
Well and I think that's where so many of us have gone
wrong in the past We've beenfocused a lot.
When I say we, I mean just kindof collectively.
We have been focused on so muchof what we don't want.
We don't want Donald Trump, wedon't want Elon Musk, we don't
want these policies, we don'twant these things, but we don't
(02:46):
say what we do want.
I'm not saying that we haven'tsaid that, but we haven't
focused on that enough and weneed to focus more on what we do
want and a path forward togetting there.
Debbie (02:57):
And I think that is also going to help.
It'd be another item on thelist of what to do to stay sane
during these crazy times,because it's a little bit of a
almost like an adjacent to agratitude practice.
Yes, you know, focusing on thethings that we actually want and
then, when you really startthinking about it we were
talking about these big policytype things, but then when you
(03:19):
get down to it, there are otherthings like that we have more of
a say right now.
So if we start thinking moreabout the world we want to live
in and we can see where, whereare the steps I can start taking
right now in my personal lifeand in my community, that will
start creating that world,regardless of what's happening
in washington right or statecapitals.
(03:41):
I'm if maybe 530 isn't the besttime for me, I always feel a
little because I just had dinner.
Melissa (03:49):
Post-dinner sleepiness.
Debbie (03:51):
My brain and my mouth not cooperating.
Melissa (03:54):
Yeah, I get that.
So I mean, what came to yourmind when you were thinking
about you were thinking aboutthis topic, when you were
thinking, okay, I want to talkabout Project 2029.
Like, what are we talking about?
And Project Now, like, what canwe make a difference about now?
Debbie (04:14):
Yeah, initially it's about all my favorite policies,
you know, like universal healthcare, livable wage, accessible
education.
I personally think it needs tobe free, but if they could just
do something to make it slightlymore accessible for everybody,
that would be great.
But then, when I really startedthinking about the personal
ways, I have a podcast episodecoming out about romance and the
(04:35):
fact that I was talking to mydaughter.
It was an easy thing for me tobroach with her.
But the way as women were kindof conditioned that this fairy
tale, romantic love is like theultimate goal to find a husband,
to get married and have thewhite picket fence.
What if that wasn't the mainfocus?
And what if we focused more oncommunity than the individualism
(05:03):
that we are conditioned with inthis capitalist upbringing?
And yeah, so those are thingswe.
Then we started to dissectcommunity, because the other
thing that I was thinking aboutwhen I was thinking about this
list was innovation.
Like we don't really innovate.
Like how I don't understandnumber one, how we haven't come
(05:26):
up with a cure for canceralready.
Like I feel like there'ssomething at play there.
Energy like the idea of thisenergy source I was just reading
about, china is getting wayahead of us in the plasma, and
this is also something I don'treally understand.
But, like, there are a lot ofreally smart people in the world
(05:46):
that could do a lot of reallysmart things, but my
understanding a lot of theindustries that are in charge
right now I'm thinking oil carindustry don't want those
innovations because they want usrelying on driving our car from
point A to point B.
So like, no, we're not going tolet you innovate new public
(06:08):
transportation or high speedrail, or I know most of our
utilities are privatized.
So like, what is the incentivefor you to come up with a
cheaper way for us to power ourhomes?
There's not going to be anymoney in it, so they're not
going to lobby for those sortsof things.
(06:30):
There's nobody lobbying for us.
And that leads to then anotherpolicy type thing Like can we
get rid of the lobbyists?
Can we get rid of the money ingovernment?
Like, how do we get it so we,the people, have more of a voice
that we can compete with thelobbyists?
How do we?
I have a couple ideas.
(06:51):
It could almost be like a TEDxsituation where you submit your
two minutes of comment on aspecific bill to your
representative and they have toreview all the public comment
right like why can't we do thatwith our thing?
And then they have to present acertain number of presentations
(07:14):
from their constituents, maybea differing idea.
There's got to be somethingright besides these high paid
lot, I mean, who are completelyout of touch with what we
actually want or need.
Melissa (07:27):
Yeah, I mean, and I think that's where we can make a
really big difference islocally.
Because there are those forums.
Right, we have a right to gointo our city council.
Right, they have a town halland they have to listen to us.
And they do listen to us andwe're the ones who are going to
be voting directly for them.
Right, there aren't anyelectors who are going to do
that and they don't get awaywith the same kinds of things
(07:51):
that our Congress people mightget away with.
Right, we have more of a voice,so we really can make a
difference locally, which Ithink eventually makes its way
up Maybe there is such a thingas trickle up, I don't know, but
at least we can make adifference locally, right, yeah,
which is helpful from time totime.
Debbie (08:12):
But I just think there's got to be a way, like we have a
forum locally, why shouldn't wehave a say with the
representative that we send toWashington?
I know it's not practical thateverybody would have a say, but
to be considered to be given aspace like this is what we're
going to talk about.
We need your input by this day.
Melissa (08:33):
Well, and they do listen.
People have been calling therepresentatives in droves,
compared to what they normallydo, to the point where the
phones are jammed and the emailsare overloaded.
And they are actually listeningand phone calls are more
persuasive, because it actuallytakes effort to pick up a phone
and to wait and to call and thepeople who answer the phone
(08:55):
actually have to take it downand listen.
And so they do, and so it doesmake a difference.
So it does make a difference tobe thoughtful, to think of what
it is that you want to callyour representative and to say,
even if your representativeisn't representative of you, so
let's say you're, you're a bluedot in a red sea, you know it
doesn't matter In fact itmatters more.
Debbie (09:18):
I would argue it matters more at that point, Like I've
called my representative acouple of times, but I feel like
they are representing me rightnow.
You know, I wish they would bedoing more.
Melissa (09:29):
I don't know what else they can do, but I wish they
were doing more of it.
Yeah, I kind of want them to bemore activist, like I want them
to do more than just what theycan do in the Congress.
For instance, I want them to bedoing sit-ins, I want them to
be blocking door doorways, Iwant them to be breaking down
(09:49):
doors when they aren't let intoplaces they should be allowed
into right that one time whenthere was a group of them and
there was the one guy blockingthe door.
Debbie (09:58):
Oh my god, how are you people not getting past this
person, just like just reach?
Melissa (10:03):
around him and go in right um get in there, right?
Debbie (10:09):
yeah, I want.
Feisty representative is theone that brought the dick pic to
the floor did you hear aboutthat?
Melissa (10:16):
yes, okay, yes for those of you who are listening,
the dick pic is was it marjorietayene who inadvertently showed
an actual dick pic?
Yeah, and so Debbie'srepresentative also brought a
dick pic, but it was of ElonMusk Elon.
Debbie (10:34):
Musk?
Yes, he's my representative,Robert Garcia.
I think that's his name.
Yeah.
Melissa (10:40):
So I mean there are ways to get things done, and I
know lawyers are doing a lot ofwork right now and yes we want
to get in with.
With your local lawyers group.
There's a lawyers for goodgovernment group that people can
support.
I mean, those people are doingthe work because it's the courts
(11:02):
are really sort of the one areathat we have left and that can
really make a really bigdifference, or at least we hope.
We hope.
Debbie (11:11):
We're like oh, we hope They've kind of already alluded
that they're not going to listento the judges.
But fingers crossed and I'mgoing to try and get back on
topic, because we're bashingtangents and sidebars what are
some of the things that you want?
What are you fighting for?
Melissa (11:33):
Yeah, I mean, I'm really nervous about climate
change, and so I would reallylike to see a lot more done in
terms of preserving the climatethat we do have, you know clean
air, clean water that mightfollow innovation, clean energy
yeah clean air Like actual cleanenergy.
Debbie (11:47):
now this is going to get us off on a tangent, but do you
consider nuclear energy cleanenergy?
That's your personal opinion asa non-scientist the total
non-scientist.
Melissa (11:59):
I mean that seems like tricky right, because in many
ways it is clean, right, it'sclean's clean water, potentially
so long as none of it leaks out, as long as it does what it's
supposed to do, yes, and thebyproducts of it do not go away
for Forever.
Debbie (12:17):
Yeah, so, I'm like, how did that somehow get labeled as
clean energy?
I'm like, yeah, I don't thinkso.
Melissa (12:22):
Like in theory yes, but in practice no.
Debbie (12:26):
That was when we did have a president that was at
least attempting to care aboutthe environment.
It was Obama.
He was trying to get morenuclear.
I'm like wait, I'm not surethat that's the right path.
Yes, I agree, the environmentvery important.
Melissa (12:44):
That's where we probably need to start.
I mean, I don't know To me andaccess to all of those things.
And then it comes down to likesocial justice, right, because a
lot of different communitiesdon't have access to some of
those fundamental things that wedo have access to.
Debbie (13:00):
We have cleaner water, we have cleaner air, we have
access to food safe food atleast I know, as we're saying
this, I'm like, oh yeah, howlong is that going to last
speaking of clean or water?
Like was flint michigan ever,really, ever, able to get back
to having clean water?
Melissa (13:20):
I don't think in the way that we would expect or want
.
Debbie (13:23):
Yeah, and that's with the agencies in place that are
supposed to be looking out forthat kind of stuff, right?
So that's what I was hopingthis would be a hopeful
conversation, but I'm like thiscould actually be really
depressing.
Melissa (13:38):
It's hopeful because you know we're looking towards
something.
It seems a little bit far offon the horizon, but I think
maybe as we continue to havethese conversations and we
continue to look for actualsolutions I mean, right now it
seems overwhelming because I saythat stuff and I have no idea
how to get there.
Right?
Yeah, starting here.
Debbie (13:56):
And that's true, focusing on what we can control
and because, as we're saying,that, of course my brain is
throwing up all the obstacles,because, you know, my brain's
really good at worst casescenario.
My brain is throwing up all theobstacles because, you know, my
brain's really good at worstcase scenario, even with the
environment.
What are the things we can donow, like support the companies
that are concerned about that,doing our best, we can continue
(14:18):
to make good choices and nottake a straw if we don't
absolutely need one we continueto pressure the companies that
make these products not to makethese products or not to use
these products.
Melissa (14:31):
I mean, it really does have to be done at a more global
level and we can praise lookingat it from an incentive side of
things and a positive side ofthings.
We can continue to praise andsupport those companies that are
doing good things instead ofthose that are not doing the
good things.
We don't even give them ourmoney.
Our money is a very strong vote.
(14:51):
Similarly, one of the otherthings that I really want to
support is diversity, equity andinclusion and belongingness.
Debbie (15:01):
Definitely something we can do every day.
Melissa (15:05):
Yes, and there are companies that are fighting the
good fight and continuing tokeep their diversity, equity
inclusion and belongingnesspolicies, despite the pressures
to get rid of their diversity,equity, inclusion.
Are we going?
Debbie (15:20):
to see how many times we can say diversity, equity and
inclusion.
Yes, it's funny that you saythat because I was actually
thinking about that being one ofmy solo episodes coming up when
I was talking to my daughter.
We also started talking aboutcommunity and how we know it's
important, but everything's setup for it to be more challenging
(15:40):
.
I know we live in a reallysmall, tight-knit community, but
when she moved to the mainlandshe was doing the typical
American and work situation andI know you experience it as
you're back in the office, atleast part-time, where you have
to get in your car, drive adistance work, then you interact
(16:04):
with those people that you workwith and then you get in your
car and you drive back to acompletely different area.
It's really hard for her todevelop any sense of community
because she's not really ineither of the places and and as
I'm describing.
Melissa (16:16):
I was like it's almost like severance.
For those of you who haven'tseen severance, it's a must see.
We could probably do a fullepisode on one of them.
We probably could.
Well, yeah, and I mean it'sinteresting.
I had a kind of a debate with acolleague of mine who's very
interested in going back to theoffice full time because she's
under the I think, misinformedidea that people will be less
(16:37):
lonely if they go back to theoffice, and I tried to disabuse
her of that nonsense, becauseI've never been more lonely than
when I worked in an officemyself.
So I can speak from experienceand I also know from studies
that I have read that being witha lot of people has nothing to
do with loneliness.
Whether it causes it or doesn'tcause it, it doesn't do
(17:00):
anything.
It has nothing to do withloneliness.
Debbie (17:02):
I would say more the inclusion might help?
Melissa (17:07):
No, but she is an extreme extrovert, like someone
I have never met as extrovertedas that, and so for her, she
really enjoys her work communityRight, and so I was describing
how I have developed a workcommunity despite the fact that
I mostly work from home, and howI've been able to cultivate
that.
And so there are other ways tocultivate a sense of belonging
(17:30):
without having to be anywhere.
In particular, it may take moreeffort, but you can still
create a sense of belonging byreaching out to people that you
work with on a regular basis andhaving meaningful conversations
with them, both about work andnot about work, and that does
take effort.
Debbie (17:49):
Well and I think that was the point, because it takes
work the community and you canbuild community wherever you are
.
Like I know, you and I are alsopart of a big or a pretty
robust online community.
We never meet in person, butwe're still connected and
supporting one another, and it'sa community.
Melissa (18:07):
Yes, and it takes effort, and it takes work and it
is absolutely one of it.
Debbie (18:23):
But what I've come to is designing suburbs and cities to
make it easier to havecommunity and to connect with
other people.
We were also talking about howEurope is a Western capitalist,
but they have a completelydifferent way of living because
they are walking.
Because they are walking, theyare going to their little local
markets and sitting outside atcafes and talking to people in
their car, going to theircubicle, back in their car,
(18:43):
getting their lunch through adrive-thru window.
You know like it's a completelydifferent.
Melissa (18:50):
Or even the culture of phones.
I mean I'm not saying thatEuropeans aren't on the phones,
they are, but it's different.
I mean I'm not saying thatEuropeans aren't on the phones,
they are, but it's different.
They're not to the same degreethat we are on our phones.
You know, you go to somewherein France or Spain and people
(19:12):
are talking with one another.
I mean, it's exceptional,although I will say, my husband
and I went to lunch today.
We went to there's a there's ahotel in downtown Portland that
has created a food court with awhole number of it's like I
don't know, probably 10 or 12different, almost like food
carts with it, but they'reinside and the tables you just
(19:33):
have to sit communally, which Ithink, facilitates conversations
Having this conversation withthis couple next to us about
they were eating Thai food andthey talked about how they ate
this particular dish every daybreakfast, lunch and dinner in
Thailand, what their experiencewas in Thailand, and it was very
cool and we'll never see thosepeople again.
But it broadens your experience, right, it diversifies your
(19:57):
experience.
Debbie (19:59):
Nice, nice, nice.
I like that you brought that inand I think so.
Melissa (20:03):
Creating those third spaces that are more like that
are going to be fundamental increating that opportunity for
more inclusion and belongingnessin our communities.
Even if you never see thosepeople again, it just makes you
feel better as a human being.
Debbie (20:21):
Encouraging cities and planners to be sure to
incorporate spaces like that.
Melissa (20:29):
And to do citywide things.
Like you know, during thesummer they do a lot of events
that that are city sponsored.
They're music events andparades and all sorts of things.
And what does that do?
It gets people out in thecommunity together and you start
seeing some of the same peopleand you interact with different
(20:50):
people and it's not only fun butit gets you feeling connected
to your community and yeah, sopay attention to what your parks
and Rec department is doing andget involved.
Debbie (21:04):
So what did we come up with?
Melissa (21:05):
Community- Environment, Diversity, equity and inclusion
.
Debbie (21:11):
Yes, big ones like you know, the health care for all
and all that stuff, but like thelittle ways, oh, the romantic
love.
Not making that the be all end.
All white picket fence is thegoal for our young girls and
young boys.
Like and yeah, but we I thinkwe want this to be a living list
(21:35):
, right?
Melissa (21:35):
We want to be.
And oh, and I think thefundamental part too is that it
takes effort but it is worth it,Like I think it's a one plus
one equals five thing.
You know, it is not like, oh,trudge, trudge, trudge, it's so
much effort, it's like you takeone step and you get so much in
return.
So it is absolutely worth it.
When you go to your town hall,you go to your city council and
(21:57):
you speak your voice, you feelheard.
When you do something in yourcommunity, you feel a part of
and it is really important.
Debbie (22:07):
And I think that's a good point in the bigger picture
.
I know we wanted this to havelike a positive slant of like
what are we fighting for?
What is the world we're tryingto build?
But also we have to rememberwhat are we fighting for, what
is the world we're trying tobuild?
But also we have to remember werecognize that there's all this
stuff going over here that wedon't want and that's going to
take a little effort.
But don't be afraid to actuallypick up the phone and call.
(22:28):
Right, I was listening to DonLemon on TikTok now.
Did you know that he does hisown news on TikTok and YouTube?
So I was watching him and hehas some of his top tier
supporters come on and theyactually do like Q&A.
And he was talking like didanybody go to any protests today
(22:49):
?
And this one woman piped upwith like it's not where I feel
I can be most effective.
I feel like that serves apurpose and then so does picking
up the phone and calling.
She talked about connecting inher community, all the ways we
can affect change, but it'sgoing to take effort.
(23:09):
There's a big call for you knowsome boycott type things to
happen and they're trying tostructure them, so it's not as
much of an impact, right?
The first one coming up is onthe 28th, and it's just don't
buy anything that day.
It's one day.
Melissa (23:24):
Don't buy anything from your larger big box supporting
Elon Musk and Amazon.
And yeah, but if you can'tdecipher, like you could, just
don't buy any, it's only one day, like it's only one day, but it
could also, you could have areally negative impact towards
small businesses.
So I would say support yoursmall businesses if you're gonna
(23:46):
spend money support yourcommunity if you support your
small business, right spend,spend cash, spend cash.
Debbie (23:54):
Yeah, so it's just one day and small business or
nothing at all.
And I was going to saysomething.
Do I want to say this?
A lot of my small businesses intown are Trump supporters, so
I'm like, oh well, I should saythat you feel really good about
and you feel comfortablesupporting.
Melissa (24:13):
I live in Portland, Oregon.
It's pretty easy I would say95% of our small businesses are
aligned with my politics.
Debbie (24:25):
I mean, the only place I would probably spend would be
bonds, and that's a corporation,so they don't.
They don't need my money.
So let us know in the comments.
If you're seeing us this onInstagram, that's really easy.
If you're hearing it on thepodcast and you have an
Instagram, jump over in theconversation there.
If not, I'm sure we both haveways on our podcast to comment.
(24:47):
And if you're new here, I'mDebbie and I have a podcast
called New World Normal.
Melissa (24:53):
And I'm Melissa and I have a podcast called the Fully
Mindful and what's going on withyou for business as usual.
My husband tells me I should befocusing on one thing.
That, evidently, is not what Ido.
I have serious ADHD and thatbleeds into my business world.
So I have a podcast and I hopeto have some new interviews out
(25:19):
in the coming weeks.
But this Thursday, which is thethird Thursday of the month,
which I do every month, so thatis a normal thing you can rely
on I have free online breathworkand so you can catch that at
Calm.
You can sign up for it there,and then I also have in person
breathwork in both Portland andHood River, if you are local to
(25:41):
Oregon.
And then I am also launching aneight week coaching course that
starts February 25.
If you're interested, it's allbased on the positive
intelligence program and it'spretty transformational and it's
pretty awesome.
So that's a lot coming up.
What about you?
Debbie (25:58):
And I would say her breathwork courses are not to be
missed.
Never done one in person, butonline is pretty spectacular For
me.
I, too, should be focused onone thing, but try to do 10
things at once.
Podcast is moving along and Iam working on getting my 12-week
(26:21):
coaching program up and going,but before that I'm going to do
a live boot camp workshop,completely free resilience in a
batshit crazy world, becausethat sounds just perfectly timed
right now I feel like we canalways use a little resilience,
(26:43):
especially now.
Yes, definitely, and we do thisevery month, or we back to the
third monday of every month.
So the third week of the of theeach month is going to be busy
for you, because you'll havetangents and sidebars and then
your breathwork class, but thatalso works nicely because we can
remind everybody about it here.
Melissa (27:05):
Yes, and I think I've got some people signed up, so
I'm hoping more people will signup.
It is free, so you know, Iwelcome donations.
Um, if you feel like supportingthe breath work, which I think
once people have it, they'relike holy crap, I need to
support this.
Debbie (27:24):
So there's your opportunity and if you're
resistant to the idea of breathwork and mindfulness.
I heard this other creator.
He was getting ready to teach amindfulness class to like I
don't know if it was like truckdrivers or like someone that was
not super receptive to thewhole idea of um mindfulness and
(27:46):
as he was walking in, he heardsomeone say something, something
, something, ah, fuck this.
And so when he brought them inand taught the first breath,
he's like breathe in F-U-C-K,hold and then breathe out
D-H-I-S.
So he taught them the fuck thisbreath work.
Melissa (28:08):
I love it.
I love it.
Well, I just saw the newCaptain America last night and
it was really good, and theclosing credit song is by
Kendrick Lamar and it's called ILove Myself and it's fantastic
and I think I'm going to putthat in the breathwork.
So you know, there's that tolook forward to too.
Debbie (28:29):
Oh, I was to say, like I always love your playlists, yay
, all right, we stayed prettymuch on topic.
We'll be back in a month totalk about the orange elephant
in the room.
We'll share any new what are wefighting for, that we come up
with or hear from listeners, andwe'll think of another way to
(28:52):
talk about this elephant in theroom.
Yep, awesome, thank you.
Melissa (28:54):
Good to see about this elephant in the room.
Yep, awesome, thank you, goodto see you.
Good to see you, bye, bye.
You are now live.
Here we are waiting for Melissafrom the Fully Mindful.
We are starting up tangents andsidebars again.
We are shooting for the thirdMonday of every month at 530
Pacific.
Here we are.
The third Monday of the month.
(00:21):
Is it already the third Mondayof February?
The third Monday of the month?
Is it already the third Mondayof February?
Now I want to go back and count, but I believe it is and we are
going to talk about.
There she is.
We decided that we are going totalk about the elephant in the
room and it will probably bethat topic, but different
(00:49):
aspects of that topic for theforeseeable future Hi.
Melissa.
Hey, I know how I feel thatit's just weird to try and do
business as normal, or businessas usual when there seems to be
a dumpster fire happening in ourgovernment right now.
So why not give us this outlet,all of us?
(01:11):
We're going to actually talkabout it, instead of saying it
feels weird to talk aboutbusiness.
But I'm just going to talkabout business and my offers
Like why don't we just talkabout it and then we can?
I'm not saying, not to talkabout your business and your
offers, especially if you're inthe wellness space.
I feel like we're going to talkabout something orange, I
already said the orange elephantin the room it's like trying to
(01:34):
do this, it's like I'm just notgoing to acknowledge something
orange in the room.
Melissa (01:37):
For those of you who aren't watching, I have an
orange sticky pad right in frontof my face.
Yeah, definitely colorseverything.
Debbie (01:44):
Orange sticky pad right in front of my face yeah,
definitely colors everything.
And so, yeah, and I know thatyou and I've been sharing
resources on how to stay engagedand also saying which I'm sure
we'll touch on continuously forthe foreseeable future, yeah,
but I know we talked abouttaking a different tact tonight
(02:08):
and I was actually just talkingto my daughter about the topic
and it was getting kind ofexcited, exciting thinking about
we're talking about.
What are we fighting for?
So we know a lot of what wedon't want, what.
What is it we want?
Melissa (02:25):
Well and I think that's where so many of us have gone
wrong in the past We've beenfocused a lot.
When I say we, I mean just kindof collectively.
We have been focused on so muchof what we don't want.
We don't want Donald Trump, wedon't want Elon Musk, we don't
want these policies, we don'twant these things, but we don't
(02:46):
say what we do want.
I'm not saying that we haven'tsaid that, but we haven't
focused on that enough and weneed to focus more on what we do
want and a path forward togetting there.
Debbie (02:57):
And I think that is also going to help.
It'd be another item on thelist of what to do to stay sane
during these crazy times,because it's a little bit of a
almost like an adjacent to agratitude practice.
Yes, you know, focusing on thethings that we actually want and
then, when you really startthinking about it we were
talking about these big policytype things, but then when you
(03:19):
get down to it, there are otherthings like that we have more of
a say right now.
So if we start thinking moreabout the world we want to live
in and we can see where, whereare the steps I can start taking
right now in my personal lifeand in my community, that will
start creating that world,regardless of what's happening
in washington right or statecapitals.
(03:41):
I'm if maybe 530 isn't the besttime for me, I always feel a
little because I just had dinner.
Melissa (03:49):
Post-dinner sleepiness.
Debbie (03:51):
My brain and my mouth not cooperating.
Melissa (03:54):
Yeah, I get that.
So I mean, what came to yourmind when you were thinking
about you were thinking aboutthis topic, when you were
thinking, okay, I want to talkabout Project 2029.
Like, what are we talking about?
And Project Now, like, what canwe make a difference about now?
Debbie (04:14):
Yeah, initially it's about all my favorite policies,
you know, like universal healthcare, livable wage, accessible
education.
I personally think it needs tobe free, but if they could just
do something to make it slightlymore accessible for everybody,
that would be great.
But then, when I really startedthinking about the personal
ways, I have a podcast episodecoming out about romance and the
(04:35):
fact that I was talking to mydaughter.
It was an easy thing for me tobroach with her.
But the way as women were kindof conditioned that this fairy
tale, romantic love is like theultimate goal to find a husband,
to get married and have thewhite picket fence.
What if that wasn't the mainfocus?
And what if we focused more oncommunity than the individualism
(05:03):
that we are conditioned with inthis capitalist upbringing?
And yeah, so those are thingswe.
Then we started to dissectcommunity, because the other
thing that I was thinking aboutwhen I was thinking about this
list was innovation.
Like we don't really innovate.
Like how I don't understandnumber one, how we haven't come
(05:26):
up with a cure for canceralready.
Like I feel like there'ssomething at play there.
Energy like the idea of thisenergy source I was just reading
about, china is getting wayahead of us in the plasma, and
this is also something I don'treally understand.
But, like, there are a lot ofreally smart people in the world
(05:46):
that could do a lot of reallysmart things, but my
understanding a lot of theindustries that are in charge
right now I'm thinking oil carindustry don't want those
innovations because they want usrelying on driving our car from
point A to point B.
So like, no, we're not going tolet you innovate new public
(06:08):
transportation or high speedrail, or I know most of our
utilities are privatized.
So like, what is the incentivefor you to come up with a
cheaper way for us to power ourhomes?
There's not going to be anymoney in it, so they're not
going to lobby for those sortsof things.
(06:30):
There's nobody lobbying for us.
And that leads to then anotherpolicy type thing Like can we
get rid of the lobbyists?
Can we get rid of the money ingovernment?
Like, how do we get it so we,the people, have more of a voice
that we can compete with thelobbyists?
How do we?
I have a couple ideas.
(06:51):
It could almost be like a TEDxsituation where you submit your
two minutes of comment on aspecific bill to your
representative and they have toreview all the public comment
right like why can't we do thatwith our thing?
And then they have to present acertain number of presentations
(07:14):
from their constituents, maybea differing idea.
There's got to be somethingright besides these high paid
lot, I mean, who are completelyout of touch with what we
actually want or need.
Melissa (07:27):
Yeah, I mean, and I think that's where we can make a
really big difference islocally.
Because there are those forums.
Right, we have a right to gointo our city council.
Right, they have a town halland they have to listen to us.
And they do listen to us andwe're the ones who are going to
be voting directly for them.
Right, there aren't anyelectors who are going to do
that and they don't get awaywith the same kinds of things
(07:51):
that our Congress people mightget away with.
Right, we have more of a voice,so we really can make a
difference locally, which Ithink eventually makes its way
up Maybe there is such a thingas trickle up, I don't know, but
at least we can make adifference locally, right, yeah,
which is helpful from time totime.
Debbie (08:12):
But I just think there's got to be a way, like we have a
forum locally, why shouldn't wehave a say with the
representative that we send toWashington?
I know it's not practical thateverybody would have a say, but
to be considered to be given aspace like this is what we're
going to talk about.
We need your input by this day.
Melissa (08:33):
Well, and they do listen.
People have been calling therepresentatives in droves,
compared to what they normallydo, to the point where the
phones are jammed and the emailsare overloaded.
And they are actually listeningand phone calls are more
persuasive, because it actuallytakes effort to pick up a phone
and to wait and to call and thepeople who answer the phone
(08:55):
actually have to take it downand listen.
And so they do, and so it doesmake a difference.
So it does make a difference tobe thoughtful, to think of what
it is that you want to callyour representative and to say,
even if your representativeisn't representative of you, so
let's say you're, you're a bluedot in a red sea, you know it
doesn't matter In fact itmatters more.
Debbie (09:18):
I would argue it matters more at that point, Like I've
called my representative acouple of times, but I feel like
they are representing me rightnow.
You know, I wish they would bedoing more.
Melissa (09:29):
I don't know what else they can do, but I wish they
were doing more of it.
Yeah, I kind of want them to bemore activist, like I want them
to do more than just what theycan do in the Congress.
For instance, I want them to bedoing sit-ins, I want them to
be blocking door doorways, Iwant them to be breaking down
(09:49):
doors when they aren't let intoplaces they should be allowed
into right that one time whenthere was a group of them and
there was the one guy blockingthe door.
Debbie (09:58):
Oh my god, how are you people not getting past this
person, just like just reach?
Melissa (10:03):
around him and go in right um get in there, right?
Debbie (10:09):
yeah, I want.
Feisty representative is theone that brought the dick pic to
the floor did you hear aboutthat?
Melissa (10:16):
yes, okay, yes for those of you who are listening,
the dick pic is was it marjorietayene who inadvertently showed
an actual dick pic?
Yeah, and so Debbie'srepresentative also brought a
dick pic, but it was of ElonMusk Elon.
Debbie (10:34):
Musk?
Yes, he's my representative,Robert Garcia.
I think that's his name.
Yeah.
Melissa (10:40):
So I mean there are ways to get things done, and I
know lawyers are doing a lot ofwork right now and yes we want
to get in with.
With your local lawyers group.
There's a lawyers for goodgovernment group that people can
support.
I mean, those people are doingthe work because it's the courts
(11:02):
are really sort of the one areathat we have left and that can
really make a really bigdifference, or at least we hope.
We hope.
Debbie (11:11):
We're like oh, we hope They've kind of already alluded
that they're not going to listento the judges.
But fingers crossed and I'mgoing to try and get back on
topic, because we're bashingtangents and sidebars what are
some of the things that you want?
What are you fighting for?
Melissa (11:33):
Yeah, I mean, I'm really nervous about climate
change, and so I would reallylike to see a lot more done in
terms of preserving the climatethat we do have, you know clean
air, clean water that mightfollow innovation, clean energy
yeah clean air Like actual cleanenergy.
Debbie (11:47):
now this is going to get us off on a tangent, but do you
consider nuclear energy cleanenergy?
That's your personal opinion asa non-scientist the total
non-scientist.
Melissa (11:59):
I mean that seems like tricky right, because in many
ways it is clean, right, it'sclean's clean water, potentially
so long as none of it leaks out, as long as it does what it's
supposed to do, yes, and thebyproducts of it do not go away
for Forever.
Debbie (12:17):
Yeah, so, I'm like, how did that somehow get labeled as
clean energy?
I'm like, yeah, I don't thinkso.
Melissa (12:22):
Like in theory yes, but in practice no.
Debbie (12:26):
That was when we did have a president that was at
least attempting to care aboutthe environment.
It was Obama.
He was trying to get morenuclear.
I'm like wait, I'm not surethat that's the right path.
Yes, I agree, the environmentvery important.
Melissa (12:44):
That's where we probably need to start.
I mean, I don't know To me andaccess to all of those things.
And then it comes down to likesocial justice, right, because a
lot of different communitiesdon't have access to some of
those fundamental things that wedo have access to.
Debbie (13:00):
We have cleaner water, we have cleaner air, we have
access to food safe food atleast I know, as we're saying
this, I'm like, oh yeah, howlong is that going to last
speaking of clean or water?
Like was flint michigan ever,really, ever, able to get back
to having clean water?
Melissa (13:20):
I don't think in the way that we would expect or want
.
Debbie (13:23):
Yeah, and that's with the agencies in place that are
supposed to be looking out forthat kind of stuff, right?
So that's what I was hopingthis would be a hopeful
conversation, but I'm like thiscould actually be really
depressing.
Melissa (13:38):
It's hopeful because you know we're looking towards
something.
It seems a little bit far offon the horizon, but I think
maybe as we continue to havethese conversations and we
continue to look for actualsolutions I mean, right now it
seems overwhelming because I saythat stuff and I have no idea
how to get there.
Right?
Yeah, starting here.
Debbie (13:56):
And that's true, focusing on what we can control
and because, as we're saying,that, of course my brain is
throwing up all the obstacles,because, you know, my brain's
really good at worst casescenario.
My brain is throwing up all theobstacles because, you know, my
brain's really good at worstcase scenario, even with the
environment.
What are the things we can donow, like support the companies
that are concerned about that,doing our best, we can continue
(14:18):
to make good choices and nottake a straw if we don't
absolutely need one we continueto pressure the companies that
make these products not to makethese products or not to use
these products.
Melissa (14:31):
I mean, it really does have to be done at a more global
level and we can praise lookingat it from an incentive side of
things and a positive side ofthings.
We can continue to praise andsupport those companies that are
doing good things instead ofthose that are not doing the
good things.
We don't even give them ourmoney.
Our money is a very strong vote.
(14:51):
Similarly, one of the otherthings that I really want to
support is diversity, equity andinclusion and belongingness.
Debbie (15:01):
Definitely something we can do every day.
Melissa (15:05):
Yes, and there are companies that are fighting the
good fight and continuing tokeep their diversity, equity
inclusion and belongingnesspolicies, despite the pressures
to get rid of their diversity,equity, inclusion.
Are we going?
Debbie (15:20):
to see how many times we can say diversity, equity and
inclusion.
Yes, it's funny that you saythat because I was actually
thinking about that being one ofmy solo episodes coming up when
I was talking to my daughter.
We also started talking aboutcommunity and how we know it's
important, but everything's setup for it to be more challenging
(15:40):
.
I know we live in a reallysmall, tight-knit community, but
when she moved to the mainlandshe was doing the typical
American and work situation andI know you experience it as
you're back in the office, atleast part-time, where you have
to get in your car, drive adistance work, then you interact
(16:04):
with those people that you workwith and then you get in your
car and you drive back to acompletely different area.
It's really hard for her todevelop any sense of community
because she's not really ineither of the places and and as
I'm describing.
Melissa (16:16):
I was like it's almost like severance.
For those of you who haven'tseen severance, it's a must see.
We could probably do a fullepisode on one of them.
We probably could.
Well, yeah, and I mean it'sinteresting.
I had a kind of a debate with acolleague of mine who's very
interested in going back to theoffice full time because she's
under the I think, misinformedidea that people will be less
(16:37):
lonely if they go back to theoffice, and I tried to disabuse
her of that nonsense, becauseI've never been more lonely than
when I worked in an officemyself.
So I can speak from experienceand I also know from studies
that I have read that being witha lot of people has nothing to
do with loneliness.
Whether it causes it or doesn'tcause it, it doesn't do
(17:00):
anything.
It has nothing to do withloneliness.
Debbie (17:02):
I would say more the inclusion might help?
Melissa (17:07):
No, but she is an extreme extrovert, like someone
I have never met as extrovertedas that, and so for her, she
really enjoys her work communityRight, and so I was describing
how I have developed a workcommunity despite the fact that
I mostly work from home, and howI've been able to cultivate
that.
And so there are other ways tocultivate a sense of belonging
(17:30):
without having to be anywhere.
In particular, it may take moreeffort, but you can still
create a sense of belonging byreaching out to people that you
work with on a regular basis andhaving meaningful conversations
with them, both about work andnot about work, and that does
take effort.
Debbie (17:49):
Well and I think that was the point, because it takes
work the community and you canbuild community wherever you are
.
Like I know, you and I are alsopart of a big or a pretty
robust online community.
We never meet in person, butwe're still connected and
supporting one another, and it'sa community.
Melissa (18:07):
Yes, and it takes effort, and it takes work and it
is absolutely one of it.
Debbie (18:23):
But what I've come to is designing suburbs and cities to
make it easier to havecommunity and to connect with
other people.
We were also talking about howEurope is a Western capitalist,
but they have a completelydifferent way of living because
they are walking.
Because they are walking, theyare going to their little local
markets and sitting outside atcafes and talking to people in
their car, going to theircubicle, back in their car,
(18:43):
getting their lunch through adrive-thru window.
You know like it's a completelydifferent.
Melissa (18:50):
Or even the culture of phones.
I mean I'm not saying thatEuropeans aren't on the phones,
they are, but it's different.
I mean I'm not saying thatEuropeans aren't on the phones,
they are, but it's different.
They're not to the same degreethat we are on our phones.
You know, you go to somewherein France or Spain and people
(19:12):
are talking with one another.
I mean, it's exceptional,although I will say, my husband
and I went to lunch today.
We went to there's a there's ahotel in downtown Portland that
has created a food court with awhole number of it's like I
don't know, probably 10 or 12different, almost like food
carts with it, but they'reinside and the tables you just
(19:33):
have to sit communally, which Ithink, facilitates conversations
Having this conversation withthis couple next to us about
they were eating Thai food andthey talked about how they ate
this particular dish every daybreakfast, lunch and dinner in
Thailand, what their experiencewas in Thailand, and it was very
cool and we'll never see thosepeople again.
But it broadens your experience, right, it diversifies your
(19:57):
experience.
Debbie (19:59):
Nice, nice, nice.
I like that you brought that inand I think so.
Melissa (20:03):
Creating those third spaces that are more like that
are going to be fundamental increating that opportunity for
more inclusion and belongingnessin our communities.
Even if you never see thosepeople again, it just makes you
feel better as a human being.
Debbie (20:21):
Encouraging cities and planners to be sure to
incorporate spaces like that.
Melissa (20:29):
And to do citywide things.
Like you know, during thesummer they do a lot of events
that that are city sponsored.
They're music events andparades and all sorts of things.
And what does that do?
It gets people out in thecommunity together and you start
seeing some of the same peopleand you interact with different
(20:50):
people and it's not only fun butit gets you feeling connected
to your community and yeah, sopay attention to what your parks
and Rec department is doing andget involved.
Debbie (21:04):
So what did we come up with?
Melissa (21:05):
Community- Environment, Diversity, equity and inclusion
.
Debbie (21:11):
Yes, big ones like you know, the health care for all
and all that stuff, but like thelittle ways, oh, the romantic
love.
Not making that the be all end.
All white picket fence is thegoal for our young girls and
young boys.
Like and yeah, but we I thinkwe want this to be a living list
(21:35):
, right?
Melissa (21:35):
We want to be.
And oh, and I think thefundamental part too is that it
takes effort but it is worth it,Like I think it's a one plus
one equals five thing.
You know, it is not like, oh,trudge, trudge, trudge, it's so
much effort, it's like you takeone step and you get so much in
return.
So it is absolutely worth it.
When you go to your town hall,you go to your city council and
(21:57):
you speak your voice, you feelheard.
When you do something in yourcommunity, you feel a part of
and it is really important.
Debbie (22:07):
And I think that's a good point in the bigger picture
.
I know we wanted this to havelike a positive slant of like
what are we fighting for?
What is the world we're tryingto build?
But also we have to rememberwhat are we fighting for, what
is the world we're trying tobuild?
But also we have to remember werecognize that there's all this
stuff going over here that wedon't want and that's going to
take a little effort.
But don't be afraid to actuallypick up the phone and call.
(22:28):
Right, I was listening to DonLemon on TikTok now.
Did you know that he does hisown news on TikTok and YouTube?
So I was watching him and hehas some of his top tier
supporters come on and theyactually do like Q&A.
And he was talking like didanybody go to any protests today
(22:49):
?
And this one woman piped upwith like it's not where I feel
I can be most effective.
I feel like that serves apurpose and then so does picking
up the phone and calling.
She talked about connecting inher community, all the ways we
can affect change, but it'sgoing to take effort.
(23:09):
There's a big call for you knowsome boycott type things to
happen and they're trying tostructure them, so it's not as
much of an impact, right?
The first one coming up is onthe 28th, and it's just don't
buy anything that day.
It's one day.
Melissa (23:24):
Don't buy anything from your larger big box supporting
Elon Musk and Amazon.
And yeah, but if you can'tdecipher, like you could, just
don't buy any, it's only one day, like it's only one day, but it
could also, you could have areally negative impact towards
small businesses.
So I would say support yoursmall businesses if you're gonna
(23:46):
spend money support yourcommunity if you support your
small business, right spend,spend cash, spend cash.
Debbie (23:54):
Yeah, so it's just one day and small business or
nothing at all.
And I was going to saysomething.
Do I want to say this?
A lot of my small businesses intown are Trump supporters, so
I'm like, oh well, I should saythat you feel really good about
and you feel comfortablesupporting.
Melissa (24:13):
I live in Portland, Oregon.
It's pretty easy I would say95% of our small businesses are
aligned with my politics.
Debbie (24:25):
I mean, the only place I would probably spend would be
bonds, and that's a corporation,so they don't.
They don't need my money.
So let us know in the comments.
If you're seeing us this onInstagram, that's really easy.
If you're hearing it on thepodcast and you have an
Instagram, jump over in theconversation there.
If not, I'm sure we both haveways on our podcast to comment.
(24:47):
And if you're new here, I'mDebbie and I have a podcast
called New World Normal.
Melissa (24:53):
And I'm Melissa and I have a podcast called the Fully
Mindful and what's going on withyou for business as usual.
My husband tells me I should befocusing on one thing.
That, evidently, is not what Ido.
I have serious ADHD and thatbleeds into my business world.
So I have a podcast and I hopeto have some new interviews out
(25:19):
in the coming weeks.
But this Thursday, which is thethird Thursday of the month,
which I do every month, so thatis a normal thing you can rely
on I have free online breathworkand so you can catch that at
Calm.
You can sign up for it there,and then I also have in person
breathwork in both Portland andHood River, if you are local to
(25:41):
Oregon.
And then I am also launching aneight week coaching course that
starts February 25.
If you're interested, it's allbased on the positive
intelligence program and it'spretty transformational and it's
pretty awesome.
So that's a lot coming up.
What about you?
Debbie (25:58):
And I would say her breathwork courses are not to be
missed.
Never done one in person, butonline is pretty spectacular For
me.
I, too, should be focused onone thing, but try to do 10
things at once.
Podcast is moving along and Iam working on getting my 12-week
(26:21):
coaching program up and going,but before that I'm going to do
a live boot camp workshop,completely free resilience in a
batshit crazy world, becausethat sounds just perfectly timed
right now I feel like we canalways use a little resilience,
(26:43):
especially now.
Yes, definitely, and we do thisevery month, or we back to the
third monday of every month.
So the third week of the of theeach month is going to be busy
for you, because you'll havetangents and sidebars and then
your breathwork class, but thatalso works nicely because we can
remind everybody about it here.
Melissa (27:05):
Yes, and I think I've got some people signed up, so
I'm hoping more people will signup.
It is free, so you know, Iwelcome donations.
Um, if you feel like supportingthe breath work, which I think
once people have it, they'relike holy crap, I need to
support this.
Debbie (27:24):
So there's your opportunity and if you're
resistant to the idea of breathwork and mindfulness.
I heard this other creator.
He was getting ready to teach amindfulness class to like I
don't know if it was like truckdrivers or like someone that was
not super receptive to thewhole idea of um mindfulness and
(27:46):
as he was walking in, he heardsomeone say something, something
, something, ah, fuck this.
And so when he brought them inand taught the first breath,
he's like breathe in F-U-C-K,hold and then breathe out
D-H-I-S.
So he taught them the fuck thisbreath work.
Melissa (28:08):
I love it.
I love it.
Well, I just saw the newCaptain America last night and
it was really good, and theclosing credit song is by
Kendrick Lamar and it's called ILove Myself and it's fantastic
and I think I'm going to putthat in the breathwork.
So you know, there's that tolook forward to too.
Debbie (28:29):
Oh, I was to say, like I always love your playlists, yay
, all right, we stayed prettymuch on topic.
We'll be back in a month totalk about the orange elephant
in the room.
We'll share any new what are wefighting for, that we come up
with or hear from listeners, andwe'll think of another way to
(28:52):
talk about this elephant in theroom.
Yep, awesome, thank you.
Melissa (28:54):
Good to see about this elephant in the room.
Yep, awesome, thank you, goodto see you.
Good to see you, bye, bye.
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