May 31, 2023 • 38 mins
Peter Linn is a father, husband, rancher, 5th generation local, and the owner of Pendergraft Outfitters.
In this episode, Peter shares his passion for his work and the joy he finds in waking up every day, excited to do what he loves. He talks about his long family history in the valley and what brought him back after living up in Alaska.
Stephan and Peter chat about some of the unique and amazing creatures he has seen while working in the backcountry, including wolverines, grizzly bears, wolves and cougars. He then goes on to discuss the challenges and adventures of expanding his operations to a ranch in Kinnear, Wyoming, where he is learning to farm alfalfa and grass. The conversation then delves into the various types of trips Peter offers, including horse-supported hiking trips and progressive travel. Peter then elaborates on Pendergraft Outfitter’s camp, which offers a more comfortable experience with wall tents and a cook tent.
Stephan and Peter also discuss the logistics of pack trips, including the importance of holding onto horses overnight. Peter shares his personal experiences of waking up to missing horses and emphasizes the need for horses to feel safe and secure in their surroundings.
This conversation offers a glimpse into the ranching and outfitting life, showcasing the remarkable adventures and obstacles encountered in the beautiful wilderness of the Tetons and the surrounding areas.
Learn more about Peter, his family history and Pendergraft Outfitters at PendergraftOutfitters.com.
This week's episode is supported in part by Teton County Solid Waste and Recycling, reminding residents and commercial businesses of Teton County’s food waste programs; the next frontier material in the quest to achieve the County’s goal to reduce, aiming for zero waste. More at TetonCountyWY.gov or at @RoadToZeroWaste.JH on Instagram.
Support also comes from The Jackson Hole Marketplace. The Deli at Jackson Hole Marketplace offers ready-made soups, sandwiches, breakfast burritos, and hot lunch specials. More at JHMarketplace.com
Want to be a guest on The Jackson Hole Connection? Email us at connect@thejacksonholeconnection.com. Marketing and editing support by Michael Moeri (michaelmoeri.com)
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
You are tuned into the Jackson hole,connection, sharing, fascinating stories
of people connected to Jackson Hole.
I am truly grateful for each ofyou for tuning in today and support
for this podcast comes from:
Today I begin this episode with a quotefrom Confucius Study history, study.
(00:21):
History in History lies Allthe Secrets of statecraft.
And welcome to episode number 244.
And my guest today is Peter Lynn,a multi-generation rancher and
outfitter here in Western Wyoming.
(00:41):
Peter's roots go back here in thevalley to the early 19 hundreds
and think about how does a familysurvive ranching and outfitting.
For so many years in this area.
Well, Peter is gonna share withus what it does take as he is now
raising the next generation of theLynn family right here in the valley.
(01:04):
We also get to talk about wherePeter goes for his outfitting and the
designation of the forest, which he uses.
For his outfitting, uh, services.
So I, I think if you like a littlebit of Wyoming history and the Great
West, you will certainly be engagedand enjoy Peter's interview today.
(01:27):
Peter, welcome to theJackson Hole Connection.
I am so amped to have you here todayand get to hear about your family
history and what you are doing to keepyour families ranch and generations
still living here in this valley.
well.
Thanks s
Stephan.
I'm happy to be here.
I'm gonna open up the door here,let people know I tried starting a
(01:50):
recording on a first piece of equipment.
It did not work.
You have been very, very patient with me.
We're now on a different piece ofsoftware to get this recording going.
I appreciate your patience.
some days things work,some days things don't
work.
Isn't
that the truth?
I'm, I wouldn't be surprised if you getto experience that in your business.
Oh, every day.
(02:11):
Pretty much.
Yeah.
Well, Peter, you are one of the fewpeople that are multi-generational
that I get to talk to.
give a short brief of where you wereborn and raised, and a little bit of
background of your family history, please.
All right.
yeah.
I was born and raised in Jackson, Wyoming.
(02:31):
I'm 47 years old.
I am the fourth generation.
and we live here on our familyhomestead in Wilson, Wyoming.
There is a fifth generation.
I have a six year old daughterand hopefully she's gonna take
up the reins when I'm done.
Uh, my great-granddadhomesteaded in Jackson in 1905.
He'd showed up, five or sixyears earlier and it took him a
(02:52):
couple years to get homesteaded.
and my great-grand, or my granddad was.
born here.
he inherited a big chunk of the ranch andhis sister inherited, uh, the other chunk.
And, uh, my dad and his brothersand sisters were able to buy it
from their parents and here we sit.
That's beautiful maintaining and keepinga ranch alive has gotta be way more
(03:15):
difficult than just passing down a house.
Oh, absolutely.
There's something to do every day.
And you know, like I said earlier,like ranching in Jackson Hole,
uh, it's not a great place.
There's just such a long winter.
you really can't grow very many cowsand then it's probably a little bit
difficult to grow very much hay.
so it's always been kind of anythingyou can do to hold onto your ground.
(03:38):
And Jackson Hole has been ranching andoutfitting has always been a part of what.
Sustained my family andallowed us to stay here.
And
you are now carrying on that tradition of
outfitting.
I am.
Yep.
Our current outfit is calledPendergraph Outfitters.
couple years ago we bought a new permitfrom a, a great old guy named Paul Gilroy.
(03:59):
And, so we have some of our oldpermits and a few new ones, and we
have a main camp up in the BuffaloRiver in the Teton Wilderness.
What permit did you buy
from Mr.
Gilroy?
Uh, he called it Gilroyoutfitting, so it was mostly up
there in the Teton wilderness.
It's on the South Fork of the BuffaloRiver and we call the camp the Pendergraph
(04:20):
Camp, uh, which is kind of special forus cuz my great-granddad was in business
with a guy named Slim Pendergraft.
And I guess people thought enough of himto name a, a couple different meadows.
There's an upper pendergraph and a lowerPendergraph meadow, there's a peak and our
main camp is right below Pendergraft Peak.
I've
heard about in the wilderness, Tetonwilderness of the thoroughfare.
(04:44):
Is that where you are taking people?
Uh, the thoroughfare is, uh,it's a really neat place.
Uh, we do visit there a little bit.
the thoroughfare is whereseveral rivers come together.
and that's on the northside of the Buffalo Plateau.
the Buffalo River flows off thesouth side of the buffalo plateau.
the thoroughfare, uh, is where thethoroughfare river and the upper
(05:06):
part of the Yellowstone River.
Meat and uh, I think that in the olddays was probably where a lot of trappers
meet, which is probably why they,they got the name, the thoroughfare.
Do you still trap?
No.
Still allowed?
Uh, I think it is still allowed,but no, we don't do any trapping.
Was your
great-grandfather or grandfatherwere, did they do trapping?
(05:26):
Uh, I don't think so.
I mean, it was quite a long time afterthe fur trade and, you know, I think my
dad and his brothers would play aroundwith things like that, but no, they
weren't, they weren't trappers really.
You know, there's, uh, we've been in thehunting business for quite a long time.
in the beginning.
I think hunting was really all the, thetourists were pretty much interested in
doing, but before long, you know, JacksonHole, a lot of guest ranches sprung up.
(05:49):
That was one of the real earlyindustries in Jackson Hole.
Mm-hmm.
And um, so that started people gettinginterested in visiting all these
really cool places up in the mountainsand people started doing pack trips.
So do you guys offer the servicesof guest ranching as well, or are
you just focusing on the outfitting?
That's a, that's a good question.
our family is involved in theguest ranch, it's called the Lynn
(06:11):
Canyon Ranch over in Victor, Idaho.
And myself and my mom and dad andmy aunt and uncle were, kind of put
that together At this point, my auntand uncle just own it, but we do
have a guest ranch in the family.
you know, in the end it'sall sort of the same.
You're just welcoming people toJackson Hole and, and showing them
some of the cool things to see here.
I've been to a few
weddings over there.
(06:31):
It's a
magnificent spot.
Yeah, that was really fun when my, when mygrandparents decided they were gonna sell
the ranch on this side and move over therecause it's a little warmer over there.
Not much, but a little bit.
Maybe you can grow agarden a little easier.
and then my dad and his brothersand sisters got together and they
bought the ranch from, on this sidefrom their parents and, and that's
(06:52):
why we're still able to be here.
That's beautiful.
Now let's talk about outfitting hasmuch changed in the world of outfitting
from when your great-grandfather andslim Pendergraph were, were doing it
to now when you're doing outfitting.
You know, compared to everythingelse in this world, I don't think
very much has, you know, thegears maybe evolved a little bit.
(07:15):
We have coolers and things likethat, but for the most part, you
know, the saddles are really similar.
doing pretty much the same thing.
Um, you know, they didn't have chainsawsor anything, and we don't either.
well, let's, let's clarify that Whenyou're out in the wilderness, You can't
take a chain, you can't use a chainsaw.
Yeah.
We are, we are just blessed in thiscountry to have such a big wilderness
(07:37):
system and to be able to go into a place,uh, that's relatively untrammeled by,
by humans and doesn't have motors anddoesn't have, well, sometimes there is
a cell phone unfortunately, but, butit doesn't have wheels and it's really
a pretty primitive, place to visit.
what's it like for the type of tripsand the length of time that you
(07:57):
would take people out now comparedto when your great-grandfather or and
grandfather were taking people out?
Well, you know, the stories thatwe hear about my great-granddad,
and we have some old brochures andstuff from when he was doing it.
they would do two 30 day hunts a year,and people would come from around the
country on to the end of the rail railroadover in Victor, Idaho, and they'd get
(08:20):
a ride over Teton Pass and a buggy or.
Maybe on a horse and they'd come toour ranch here in Wilson and they'd
get outfitted and load up the wagonwith all the supplies as they need.
And they'd head off up into Grand TetonNational Park or before it was a park
or up into the Teton wilderness, andthey'd spend a do a 30 day hunt, and
they'd probably get several of thedifferent species along the way and share
(08:41):
with some folks what someof those species are.
That would, that they would've
hunted?
You know, I think probablythe most popular one, even
back then was hunting elk.
You know, this is a famousplace to come hunt a big elk.
but there's also, you know, great muledeer, sheep, moose, maybe even bears.
You know, I don't think therewas a lot of grizzly bears.
There might have been, but I thinkthey would hunt a black bear.
(09:04):
And was there a
period of time when the bison.
They would not have seen anybison or do you ever see, do the
bison make it that far back intothe wilderness of where you are?
You know, I don't know about that.
Um, I don't know if there would've beenbison in the valley at that point or not.
Uhhuh.
Um, at this point we don't really see 'em.
We see 'em when we're driving upto the trail head, but we don't
(09:25):
see 'em up in the mountains.
Okay.
Of course, we are on the southside of the buffalo plateau, so
at some point there must havebeen some buffalo up on top of it.
good point.
Yeah.
I'm curious about some of the animalsthat maybe we don't always see very much.
So if we're hiking around here, wecan see some big horn sheep, might
(09:46):
see some goats, but there's some otheranimals that certainly live out here
that we know that, that are out here.
but we might not see 'em as much.
have you ever come across.
Signs of or seen Wolverinebeing back there.
I have, I've seen I thinkone Wolverine for sure.
up in the Tetons Uhhuhat, at pretty close range.
(10:08):
I was sitting on some rocks andI saw him and he kind of saw me
and he walked behind the one treethat was there and disappeared.
Hmm.
Um, they kind of pretend likethey don't see you, but they
have a pretty distinctive gate.
They kind of amble along.
Uh, I've seen several up in Alaska,but I think that one for sure, and, and
several possible sightings down here.
I think you're one of the fewpeople that I've ever spoken to
(10:29):
that's actually seen a Wolverine.
Yeah, yeah.
It's a pretty cool animal.
What are some other
animals that, unless people areout there in the wilderness area
that you might not really see?
Oh geez.
you know, I don't know.
We do see, grizzly bears quitea bit more and more every year.
Um, and nowadays we're lucky enoughto have some wolves out there.
(10:51):
We don't see 'em very often, but youknow, every year we'll see some wolves.
Now with the wolves.
Is there much interaction?
Uh, if you don't see a much I'mtaking it, there's probably not a
whole lot of interaction betweenyou, you as an outfitter and them.
Oh no, there's not really any interaction.
I mean, people worry about 'em whenwe talk about 'em on every trip, but
(11:13):
they really, you know, they don'tbother us or anything like that.
Um, we do see and find where they've,Where they've caught elk a few times.
Uhhuh, uh, in fact, last year when werode into our camp, uh, there was a
dead elk in the river that was probablykilled by ri by the wolves in about 200
yards downstream from where our camp was.
Hmm.
And um, we did see a fewwolves coming into that.
(11:35):
And what do you take with
you for protection against the wolvesif you were to have a interaction
with wolves?
I, I don't worry aboutanything with wolves.
Wolves don't attack people.
It's not a problem.
Okay.
Um, you know, we do have to be prettycareful with the grizzly bears.
so we take a variety of things.
We'll have, uh, certainly some bear spray.
we'll have some dogs with usand those are usually kind of
(11:57):
give us some early warning.
Grizzly bears don't prey on people either.
You just have to be carefulnot to surprise them.
Mm-hmm.
So, you know, you're, you justtravel, like you should be traveling
in groups and making noise so youdon't come around the corner and, you
know, and, and surprise the bears.
And then, you know, we'llusually have a pistol along too.
And does it make a
difference traveling with a dog?
So you don't surprise that
(12:18):
bear?
Oh, the dogs just have such a good nose.
a lot of times our dogs havetold us there's bears way, way
before we've ever seen them.
Mm-hmm.
Sounds like I should hike more with a dog.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I have an Dale Terrier that Itake with me as my bear dog.
And in the wintertime she,she's also an avalanche dog at
the Jackson Mountain Resort.
Oh, really?
Yeah.
Are you involved with somestuff out there at Jackson Hole
(12:41):
Mountain Resort in the winter?
I am.
Yep.
That's my w my winter job is, uh, onthe, on the Jacksonville Ski Patrol.
Are you
okay, so again, Jack of all trades,you gotta do something in the
winter survive.
Yeah.
Every successful outfit has got a,got a job in the winter as well.
Uhhuh.
Okay.
Yeah.
Now,
where else are you taking people Foryour trips that people, so over the
(13:03):
years we've collected several permits.
Uh, my dad's original permitwas, uh, mostly in the Tetons,
um-huh From the I Idaho side.
So the west side of the Tetons,all the way from the Yellowstone
line down to Teton Pass.
And so we do do severaltrips a year over there.
a lot of those trips end upbeing hiking trips and they're
horse supported hiking trips.
Uh, we like to do go down the,Teton Crest Trail every year.
(13:26):
Um, but the Tetons, they both havea fair amount of people in them
and they're also a pretty highelevation sensitive place to go.
So we try to take a few less horsesthan we do on some of our other trips.
so the hiking trips work quite well there.
And then we like to visitthe Grove VAs every year.
Uh, we mostly go off the GrokRiver up into Crystal Creek or
the head of the Grovo, and it'sjust such a different range from
(13:50):
both of the other ones we go to.
It's, it's just a reallyawesome place to go every year.
And then, um, the main place wego this at this point is the Teton
Wilderness, kind of the north end ofJackson Hole, just south of Yellowstone.
Yeah.
When, when you're taking peoplein, in the back country, What
does the experience look like?
(14:11):
If people were to look at itfrom the 10,000 foot view, what
would they see with your outfit?
Taking people out into the wilderness.
you know, I think whatpeople would see if they.
If they could see it from the 10,000foot level is it is just slows down.
Life sort of slows down and youstart, you know, appreciating
(14:32):
some of the things that just youkind of breeze by on a normal day.
we like to do at least a five day trip.
You know, in the past we've done quite afew shorter ones, at this point, you know,
at least five or six days and you're, youknow, the first day or two you might kind
of be wondering what's next, what's next?
And after a while you can justrelax and be in the wilderness.
Or to notice some of the thingsthat you don't notice on a,
(14:53):
on a normal, busy day in town,
I'm sure slowing down a little bitmakes an experience of what you are
offering far more enjoyable thanthinking about what's next, what's next?
I
think so.
you know, certainly a lot of the peoplethat have come with us on trips and
a lot of people come back and do,many, many trips, the, they always
(15:16):
end up doing longer and longer trips.
This day and age people visitingthe West, they need to see six
different national parks in one week.
And, uh, I, you know, I think whatthey really want to do is just get out
there into the wilderness where it'squiet and they can't hear their phone
ringing and, and just relax a little bit.
Well, I think there's a bigdifference between what you said,
(15:37):
seeing six different parks in aweek time versus experiencing.
One park in one, in one area, likewhat you're doing for a week period?
I certainly
think so.
you know, to visit Yellowstone tosee some of the places up there is
so different in the back country thanlooking out of a window of a tour bus.
(15:57):
Oh, for sure.
about what we get to do herein the spring and the fall.
We just wrapped up the opportunity.
Where the Bradley Taggart Lake Roadhead, you know, from there all the
way up to signal that road is closed.
And the difference of the experienceof riding your bike or walking
(16:22):
that road is so different comparedto if you're just driving through
there.
Yeah, yeah.
What a difference a monthmakes, you know, go there and.
In the 1st of June and try toride your bike up that road.
It's, it's amazing.
And you can't blame 'em.
Everybody wants to come and see this.
It's a beautiful place.
I'm to know what age do people begin goingon a pack trip with you all and up to and
(16:47):
up to what age would somebody go with you?
you know, that's a good question.
Um, you know, we have an insurancepolicy and I think, I think that
says six years old is the earliest.
but it depends, you know, some people,like my daughter has been going on in
there since she was one years old, so.
Mm-hmm.
Um, she's, she's six and thiswill be the six years in a
row that she's been going in.
(17:07):
and then it depends, you know, uh,if you take care of yourself and
get lucky, you know, there's, I'vebeen on, uh, Some really cool trips.
Two years ago, for instance, wehad a trip with some great friends.
did about a hundred mile loop andeverybody was over 70 and there were some
bumps and bruises and it wasn't alwayspretty, but, did a pretty awesome trip
and made it to over 11,000 feet and, andsaw several different rivers and including
(17:31):
the very top of the Shoshone River.
I, I
can't imagine to go see the originationpoint of some of these rivers.
That just is, sounds magnificent.
Yeah, we're, we're lucky here.
We live, you know, there's lots of placeswhere you can consider the top of the
continent, but you know, not far away.
You know, the head of the, ColumbiaRiver starts, you know, the Snake River
(17:55):
drainage flows down into the Columbia and.
And you can stand on one mountain and,and, uh, on one side, the, the Snake
River is flowing off towards the westand, and then there's the Green River
flowing down to the Colorado, and thenthere's the Mississippi River starting
off the other side of the mountain.
Man, I gotta get back there.
Yeah.
Yeah.
There's, there's a really neat mountainover in the, oh, it would be the northwest
(18:19):
side of the wind Rivers, and I thinkit's called Three Rivers Mountain, where,
where all three rivers start off of that.
That's, and there's lots of tributariesto all three of those different
rivers, but it's one, one of them, huh.
How does this make
you feel that you've had the opportunityto grow up in these mountains and
now you're sharing 'em with, withother people this experience?
(18:44):
Oh, I feel amazingly lucky to beable to grow up doing what I've done.
I mean, every day.
I mean, I'm excited to go to work.
And I, you know, for me that'skind of the secret to life.
If you wake up and you're just excitedto do what you've been, you're doing,
it's, it's, uh, it's a lot of fun.
Recently we've, uh, expanded to geta ranch over in Kiner, Wyoming, just
(19:05):
on this side of Riverton, and that'shad all kinds of new tra challenges.
to farm a little bit.
What are you learning to farm over there?
Oh, I just planted about 40acres of alfalfa and grass.
so we have about 80 acres that we can growenough hay to get through the winter on.
Okay.
And, and, um, so we'relearning to be farmers.
How's that going so far?
(19:26):
It's been a challenge.
It's been an adventure, but I thinkwe, uh, I think we got there and, you
know, looking at the forecast, I mighteven get a little of rain this week.
Yeah, it does look like it mightrain a little bit for for sure.
so is there a difference between yourriding horse and your pack horse?
And do you use horses or, or mules?
(19:46):
You know, my family has reallytraditionally been on horseback uhhuh.
Uh, there's a lot of outfitters aroundthat, like mules and I have several of
them, and I do like 'em quite a bit.
But for the most part,we're riding horses.
And, sometimes there's horsesthat are way better at riding or
way better in the pack string.
But, the most useful horsedoes anything you want to do.
(20:07):
So, our best horses will do either one.
And when
you're back there, how manypeople are you taking per guest
and
Well, we.
Yeah, Anna, that's another good question.
We do several different kinds of trips.
Mm-hmm.
Um, so we can do, we do ourhorse supported hiking trips.
and that we can have a few morepeople because we don't have to,
worry about having too many horses.
(20:29):
Mm-hmm.
Uh, there is a limit on the numberof people and horses you can
take into the wilderness, so youdon't run into too big a groups.
We do progressive travel, where wego anywhere in the, in the Tetons or
the Gro VAs or the Teton Wilderness.
And you know, that's about eightpeople is a pretty good group for that.
then when we make it up into ourPendergraft camp, which we'll
set up around August 1st, we're,we're set up there for 12 people.
(20:53):
There's a few more, but we don't have topack all the tents or anything like that.
And so, makes it a little easier.
What do you mean you don'thave to pack the tents in?
Uh, we have what's known asan assigned site there, Uhhuh.
So the Forest Service, uh,allows us to go in there.
It's a special use permit.
Through the Forest Service, andthey'll allow us to go in and set up
that camp and stay longer than thetypical allowed stay in the wilderness.
(21:17):
Uh, okay.
People these days, I believe, areallowed to stay for 12 days in, in
the Bridger Teton wilderness in onespot until you're supposed to pick
up your camp and go somewhere else.
And.
What are you setting
up to set up camp?
I mean, is it big tents for cooking
and, and sleeping, or We'll takewall tents in there, Uhhuh, so we'll
have six wall tents for people tosleep in, and then a cook tent.
(21:37):
you know, that's about it.
There's a few other littlethings here and there, but,
it's a pretty comfortable camp.
It's a camp that I think people havebeen using for about a hundred years.
Hmm.
And it's, it's, really sceniccuz we're right up tucked
against the Buffalo plateau.
So there's almost 2,500 feet of.
Rock right in front of us and there'ssome nice lakes to visit and it's
uh, just a, a really scenic spot.
(21:59):
The Teton wilderness is greatfor horses cuz when that volcanic
rock degrades, it turns into dirt.
So it's nice dirt trails andit's kinda easy on their feet
and you can go a lot of places.
Hmm.
Peter, we're gonna take a quick break toget a word from one of our sponsors, and
then we will come back and learn moreabout you and your outfitting group.
(22:20):
Sounds great.
Peter.
Welcome back.
We're learning a lot about what it'sto survive in Jackson as a rancher
and in the outfitting that you do.
when.
People are out on your, let's say,the Teton wilderness trip and, and
(22:40):
it's a multi-day night trip out there.
how much of it is for their recreation?
But when you're taking people out,should they expect that they'll have
to carry some of their own weight
on this type of trip?
Uh, no.
I mean, generally when you start apack trip, you know, you show up at the
(23:00):
trailhead and you get to know your horse.
So everybody has a horse.
you know, occasionally people like tocarry a backpack or something with some
extra stuff, but you have some saddlebagsand you have, you know, the way people
have been doing it for hundreds ofyears, you just tie a few things onto
your, your saddle and in a way you go,for the most part, the pack horses and
stuff would carry everything you need.
You know, we'll, we bring our coolersback to town and, and send the cook to
(23:21):
the store every time before every trip.
And, and in that pendergraph camp, that'sthe nice thing is we do have the, the
tents and stuff packed in, so, you know,we can travel a little lighter that way.
Because you don't haveto break that stuff down.
Each time you're taking,you're leaving with people and
then bringing another group
back in.
I don't if, you know, if, if we'regoing in and out of that camp
(23:43):
that we call the Pendergraph camp,uh, we don't have to do that.
But you know, if you're doingprogressive travel, Sometimes you
do, you know, and, and that can meaneither going into a camp and setting
it up for, you know, four or five days.
or it can mean going froma different camp every day.
You know, some people wanna try to see asmuch of the Teton wilderness as you can,
so you can, you know, plan out a reallybig loop and, you know, travel each day.
(24:08):
And in those traveling days, youknow, it can be longer, but I think
the, the right number is about 10to 15 miles, somewhere in there.
and find another place to camp and setit all up and take all those saddles
off and get your horses fed and, andmake some dinner and, you know, and,
uh, hopefully it doesn't rain onyou, but sometimes that happens too.
What
in nature?
It does
rain.
So yes, it, it does tendto rain a couple times.
(24:31):
You know, it snows, uh,the Buffalo Plateau.
you know, when we're here in Jackson,we think of the big peaks as the
Tetons, and they are the highest and,and the most dramatic looking ones.
But boy, up to the north,those plateaus are 11,000 feet.
Some of the peaks there go up intothe 12,000 feet and it's miles
and miles across the top of 'em.
Hmm.
(24:51):
It sounds like
this is something everybodyshould make an effort to
experience.
It's probably not for everyone.
Mm-hmm.
But, uh, you know, it's a, it'sa pretty cool thing to see.
and, and I wouldn't knock any ofthe other mountain ranges too.
You know, the groks are, arereally special in their own way.
There's a lot of wildlife therethat's a really old mountain range.
And the Tetons are theother end of the spectrum.
(25:12):
Just really dramatic.
And I think it's a veryyoung mountain range.
far as mountain ranges go,
you were, you, you mentioned youmight get, what, 10 to 15 miles a day?
Is, is that a lot of miles on horseback
in one day?
You know, it just depends on, on theterrain that you're in, you know,
if you know where you're going.
There are times when I do packtrips where I've never been there.
(25:33):
so you're kind of justfiguring it out as you go.
it, you know, we can go a lot furtherthan that sometimes when we're going into
the thoroughfare, which you mentioned.
That's maybe 22 miles or maybeeven a few more than that to get
all the way into hawk's rest.
Mm-hmm.
But the trails are good and you knowwhere you're going, pick the horses
that can really travel and but, youknow, 10 or 15 miles can be a huge day.
(25:54):
And there's a lot that goes into it,you know, when you're out there, pack
tripping, we get up, you know, beforedawn and, and get the horses caught.
And you gotta, you know, one of thebiggest tricks about doing pack trips
is holding onto your horses because, uh,most people when they go in, you know,
find a nice big meadow and let yourhorses go, they go right back to town.
You know, horses feel safest whenthey're standing there at the ranch.
(26:14):
So, uh, you know, it's,it's a, it's a little.
Juggling act, trying tohold onto your horses.
And that's one of the reasonspeople really like mules.
you get a bunch of mules, they'll pickone mare and they call that the bell mare.
And then if you hold onto that bellmare, all those mules will stay there.
Um, we typ, we typically usehorses, and not too many mules, but.
you know, our, and our horses have doneit a lot so they can feel comfortable
(26:35):
in a lot of different places,but we hobble most of our horses.
so you, you know, you tie their fronttwo feet together and then they can
move around and, you know, you thinkit's really gonna slow 'em down,
but every once in a while they'llgo 20 miles with those hobbles on.
No way.
Absolutely.
Yeah, they get really good at 'em andwe try really hard not to make that
happen because, uh, you know, some ofthem are really good at it, and then
(26:55):
they'll, they'll take a horse thatisn't quite as good at it and it'll kind
of bugger up his ankles a little bit.
Have you woken up before when you,you're like, where'd my horses go?
Oh, absolutely.
Yeah.
And it's a, it's a desperate moment.
It happens less and less, butcertainly when I was younger
doing this, you know, I started.
Really kind of takenover right after college.
(27:15):
I went to school up in Alaskaand um, that's sort of when I
took over the outfit from my dad.
And yeah, I've had many times whenI wake up and there's no horses
there, uh, a lot of people like toput bells on their horses so they can
kind of wake up in the middle of thenight and hear the bells, and they
know their horses are still around.
don't, I, the bells kind of keepme awake so I don't use bells, but,
you know, know pretty quick when youwake up and your horses are gone.
(27:36):
I, I would imagine so that wouldn'tbe, and it can be a long walk.
we're really lucky with our pendergraphcamp, which we do spend, oh, not
most of our time, but a lot of ourtime, the horses don't leave there.
It's kind of a, a box canyon, and we'recamped at the bottom end of it, and
there's enough grass and they, theyjust feel comfortable enough there
that they'll stay for a long time.
you know, horses need to eat andthey need to drink, but more than
(27:58):
anything, they wanna feel safe.
Uh huh.
it's almost though you want somebodyto stay up all night watching the
horses, make sure they don't go off onyou if you're not in the pengra camp.
Yeah.
Finding that employee is a little tricky.
Yeah.
Well, nobody probablywants to stay up all night.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I'm not doing that.
No.
I, I wouldn't do that.
No.
We know when we're out there, we usually,we'll always have some horses around.
(28:20):
so.
Tied up at night, you know,when we get into a camp, we'll
start feeding them right away.
So we'll have, some of those horseswill go out and eat for a couple
hours and they'll come back inand, and stand around all night.
And then in the morning they go back outand get another, get their breakfast.
And, so we've worked out a pretty goodsystem and we don't have too many runways.
it like finding
people to come and help youoperate these outfitting trips
(28:43):
nowadays are, are you able
to find people.
You know, I've been pretty lucky to havesome great people that have come along.
for some people it's sorta,you know, a bucket list.
They wanna come to a summerand see a lot of places, spend
a bunch of time on horseback.
it's a lot more rare for us to findpeople that wanna make this, their living,
what an amazing bucket list tofill to spend a few months out
(29:09):
in, in, in the wilderness area.
think it's awesome that you're stillable to find people because it seems
though, In today's labor market, itseems harder and harder to find people
that wanna get their hands dirty
a little bit.
Yeah, it certainly is.
And, and you know, that's what it takes,you know, when we're, you know, everyone
(29:29):
calls up and they wanna be a wrangler,you know, they wanna work with horses.
Uh, but really that job in, inIncludes doing dishes and setting up
tents and everything else that goesinto making, making a trip work.
Mm-hmm.
And yeah, we've been pretty luckyto find some awesome people that,
uh, are ready to, you know, roll uptheir shirt sleeves and go to work.
(29:52):
And how old were you when
you started helping yourdad with outfitting trips?
You know, I, I don't think when I was areally ki tiny kid, we went out very much.
But I remember, think myfirst pack trip was with my.
My grandparents when my grandmawas still alive, and I think I
rode on with her on her saddle.
And I, I, I can vaguely rememberit, at least I've heard the story
(30:13):
enough times that I remember it,that I, I lost my boots and I didn't
say anything, so we had to go backdown the trail looking for my boots.
But, and that was when my dad'scamp was up in, bitch Creek over
on the north end of the Tetons.
Mm.
Mm-hmm.
And, um, And then I, I think when I was,you know, 10, 12 in that region, I started
helping my dad every summer, spendingmost of my summer vacation out with him.
(30:34):
and then I went to school up in Alaska.
And, and after that, I almost stayedup there, but then I decided I needed,
needed some more horses in my life.
So I'm back here and, uh, and we'vejust been buying 'em and buying them.
Now we have way too many.
Too many horses.
Well, you know, horses arenot easy to keep around.
They take a lot of work, but,you know, we have all winter
long, we have way too many.
And then when we get to thesummer, we don't have quite enough.
(30:55):
Do you
keep your horses on your ranch in thewinter or, or do you guys ship your
horses off to a, a winter pasture?
know, we've always, pretty much kept 'emaround here, at least quite a few of them.
Uh, we do have a few cows thatwe keep around the ranch as well.
But a couple years ago we got theopportunity to buy a place over
near Riverton in Kiner, Wyoming.
Right.
And, uh, it's a lot warmer placeand a lot less snow over there.
(31:18):
so this last couple years, uh, we'vebeen shipping our horses over there
and our cows, uh, and it's a littledifferent, you know, I think, Almost
for the last 120 years, my family'sbeen hooking up a team of horses to
go out and feed the animals every day.
Mm-hmm.
All winter long.
And now we're not doing that.
It's a little bit sad in some ways.
We still have all this, you know,some wagons and some harnesses
and sleighs around and, uh, kindawondering what to do with them.
(31:41):
And
when you are on these outfittingtrips, is it now with your family
all hands on deck and now that
you have your.
Oh, I wish daughter.
It was every trip like that.
Uh, and we're getting closer to that.
Uh, my daughter's six years oldand she's, not a lot of help yet,
but, uh, she's getting better andbetter and, um, and my wife comes on
(32:01):
quite a few of the trips, but yeah.
I think every year Charliegets to go on a few more.
Um, this will be her 60year going into Camp Uhhuh.
so hopefully she cancarry on the tradition.
Yeah,
that'll be beautiful for that.
to, to keep that going.
Yeah.
She'll, you know, wewon't force it on her.
Everyone's gotta pick their own path, but,um, she'll certainly have that option.
(32:21):
Yeah.
So what
does the summer look like for you?
Is it, look, full?
You know, it's gonna be an interestingseason, you know, with as much snow
as there is up there in the hills.
we've postponed the start of ourseason and, you know, our first trips
are always into the thoroughfare.
Mm-hmm.
And it's, it's, uh, it's a tough tripcuz it's, uh, 20 something miles in
(32:41):
the horses are usually not in shape.
you have to make it over Trail Creek pass,which isn't terribly high, but even middle
of June, you'll run into snow up there.
And it can also be about 25miles of bogs to go through.
And occasionally the mosquitoesare just horrendous up there.
but we get to go in thereand fish for some of those.
Yellowstone Cutthroat that are comingup outta Yellowstone Lake and spawning.
(33:03):
And almost every trip we'vebeen there, the people who have
caught the biggest, cutthroatthey've ever caught in their life.
Hmm.
So that's kind of cool.
Uh, we're gonna start that about middleof June and then, uh, we work with some
kids, usually early season, and do acouple kids trips, and then we'll do
a few progressive trips and then we'llgo set up our pendergraph camp and,
and then on towards fall when the oaksstart, bugling, we'll go elk hunting.
(33:26):
I I'm
interested to hear once, when Junecomes around, what your trips are like
running in with all the snow and howslow it has been to melt this year.
yeah.
that keeps me up at nightoccasionally, but, you know, it is
what it is and, um, will work out.
There's plenty of things youcould stay up and worry about.
There's always something youcan stay up and and worry about.
(33:48):
For sure.
Well, Peter, if somebody wants toreach out and connect with you all
and set up a trip, how can they
do that?
Uh, we have a website, um, pendergraphoutfitters.com and, don't think we're too
hard to find around in Jackson Hole area.
you know, uh, it's, it's actually a great.
Time to be in this industry because,you know, and you know, 50 years ago
(34:11):
a lot of people had their own horsesand they did these trips on their own.
And it was a, it was a huge way thatpeople recreated around Jackson,
either hiking trips or pack trips.
but now a lot of peoplewould like our help.
And so you know, it's a popular thing.
I'm, I'm
thrilled that a industry ofoutfitting has changed so little.
Over the years and is being handeddown from different generations and is
(34:35):
continuing, continuing the course forpeople to experience such remote areas
of our, of our country and, see things.
The land, as you saidearlier, that's really.
Untouched by, by humans.
Uh, I think
it's, it's phenomenal.
It's, it's absolutely a wonderful thingand it's, you know, it's really special.
And one of the things that we reallytry to, convey to everyone that we take
(34:58):
out there, that it's, it's extremelyimportant to protect because mm-hmm.
You know, there, there are peoplethat aren't that interested in having
all these wild places like that.
So, you know, I think for people toget out there and appreciate it, that's
what, in the end will protect it.
Mm-hmm.
For sure.
Well, Peter, I so appreciate yourtime and putting up with all the
technical difficulties today.
(35:19):
it's been wonderful having thisopportunity to talk to you and learn
about your outfitting business and thefact that you, in the wintertime ski
patroller, keeping people alive and Yep,
safe air.
You trade my horse for some fat skis.
Yeah,
from outfitting to skier.
it's just the, what you gotta doout here, it, it's what people have
(35:41):
always done and that's what keeps it
interesting.
You know, when we get to the end ofthe fall and I'm tired of settling
horses in a snowstorm, like, you know,I just can't wait to get out there
and, go make some turns and the powdersnow and you what, by springtime
I'm ready to get back on my horse.
Oh, I'm sure.
Well, you had, one quick question.
So let's put the skiingand the horses together.
(36:02):
Have you ever done the ski drawing?
no, I have not.
Okay.
We do ski drawing with ourkids around the yard, Uhhuh.
but, uh, yeah, it's, uh, a lot ofpeople get hurt ski during, sometimes
the horses even get hurt, so, no,I don't, I don't do a heck of a
lot of ski drawing, but, all right.
It looks like fun.
I, I think you gotta be a braveperson to get out there and get hauled
(36:24):
by one of those horses and do the
ski drawing.
Yeah.
You know, they're going pretty fastand I have some good buddies that are
good at it and you know, and some of'em actually want some money doing it.
Good for them.
you know what I like whenI'm skiing is gravity.
Not only is it the law,it's a real good idea.
That sounds fair.
Well, Peter, thank youso much for your time.
You enjoy your day and keep on carryingon the tradition of your family history.
(36:49):
Thank you.
All right, Stephan.
Thank you very much.
Have a good day.
You're welcome.
All righty, sir.
Thank you.
Okay, good luck.
Take care.
Bye.
To learn more about Peter Lynn andPendergraft Outfitters, visit the jackson
hole connection.com, episode number 244.
Thank you everybody for listeningtoday Get out and share this
(37:09):
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the Jackson Hole Connection.
You are tuned into the Jackson hole,connection, sharing, fascinating stories
of people connected to Jackson Hole.
I am truly grateful for each ofyou for tuning in today and support
for this podcast comes from:
Today I begin this episode with a quotefrom Confucius Study history, study.
(00:21):
History in History lies Allthe Secrets of statecraft.
And welcome to episode number 244.
And my guest today is Peter Lynn,a multi-generation rancher and
outfitter here in Western Wyoming.
(00:41):
Peter's roots go back here in thevalley to the early 19 hundreds
and think about how does a familysurvive ranching and outfitting.
For so many years in this area.
Well, Peter is gonna share withus what it does take as he is now
raising the next generation of theLynn family right here in the valley.
(01:04):
We also get to talk about wherePeter goes for his outfitting and the
designation of the forest, which he uses.
For his outfitting, uh, services.
So I, I think if you like a littlebit of Wyoming history and the Great
West, you will certainly be engagedand enjoy Peter's interview today.
(01:27):
Peter, welcome to theJackson Hole Connection.
I am so amped to have you here todayand get to hear about your family
history and what you are doing to keepyour families ranch and generations
still living here in this valley.
well.
Thanks s
Stephan.
I'm happy to be here.
I'm gonna open up the door here,let people know I tried starting a
(01:50):
recording on a first piece of equipment.
It did not work.
You have been very, very patient with me.
We're now on a different piece ofsoftware to get this recording going.
I appreciate your patience.
some days things work,some days things don't
work.
Isn't
that the truth?
I'm, I wouldn't be surprised if you getto experience that in your business.
Oh, every day.
(02:11):
Pretty much.
Yeah.
Well, Peter, you are one of the fewpeople that are multi-generational
that I get to talk to.
give a short brief of where you wereborn and raised, and a little bit of
background of your family history, please.
All right.
yeah.
I was born and raised in Jackson, Wyoming.
(02:31):
I'm 47 years old.
I am the fourth generation.
and we live here on our familyhomestead in Wilson, Wyoming.
There is a fifth generation.
I have a six year old daughterand hopefully she's gonna take
up the reins when I'm done.
Uh, my great-granddadhomesteaded in Jackson in 1905.
He'd showed up, five or sixyears earlier and it took him a
(02:52):
couple years to get homesteaded.
and my great-grand, or my granddad was.
born here.
he inherited a big chunk of the ranch andhis sister inherited, uh, the other chunk.
And, uh, my dad and his brothersand sisters were able to buy it
from their parents and here we sit.
That's beautiful maintaining and keepinga ranch alive has gotta be way more
(03:15):
difficult than just passing down a house.
Oh, absolutely.
There's something to do every day.
And you know, like I said earlier,like ranching in Jackson Hole,
uh, it's not a great place.
There's just such a long winter.
you really can't grow very many cowsand then it's probably a little bit
difficult to grow very much hay.
so it's always been kind of anythingyou can do to hold onto your ground.
(03:38):
And Jackson Hole has been ranching andoutfitting has always been a part of what.
Sustained my family andallowed us to stay here.
And
you are now carrying on that tradition of
outfitting.
I am.
Yep.
Our current outfit is calledPendergraph Outfitters.
couple years ago we bought a new permitfrom a, a great old guy named Paul Gilroy.
(03:59):
And, so we have some of our oldpermits and a few new ones, and we
have a main camp up in the BuffaloRiver in the Teton Wilderness.
What permit did you buy
from Mr.
Gilroy?
Uh, he called it Gilroyoutfitting, so it was mostly up
there in the Teton wilderness.
It's on the South Fork of the BuffaloRiver and we call the camp the Pendergraph
(04:20):
Camp, uh, which is kind of special forus cuz my great-granddad was in business
with a guy named Slim Pendergraft.
And I guess people thought enough of himto name a, a couple different meadows.
There's an upper pendergraph and a lowerPendergraph meadow, there's a peak and our
main camp is right below Pendergraft Peak.
I've
heard about in the wilderness, Tetonwilderness of the thoroughfare.
(04:44):
Is that where you are taking people?
Uh, the thoroughfare is, uh,it's a really neat place.
Uh, we do visit there a little bit.
the thoroughfare is whereseveral rivers come together.
and that's on the northside of the Buffalo Plateau.
the Buffalo River flows off thesouth side of the buffalo plateau.
the thoroughfare, uh, is where thethoroughfare river and the upper
(05:06):
part of the Yellowstone River.
Meat and uh, I think that in the olddays was probably where a lot of trappers
meet, which is probably why they,they got the name, the thoroughfare.
Do you still trap?
No.
Still allowed?
Uh, I think it is still allowed,but no, we don't do any trapping.
Was your
great-grandfather or grandfatherwere, did they do trapping?
(05:26):
Uh, I don't think so.
I mean, it was quite a long time afterthe fur trade and, you know, I think my
dad and his brothers would play aroundwith things like that, but no, they
weren't, they weren't trappers really.
You know, there's, uh, we've been in thehunting business for quite a long time.
in the beginning.
I think hunting was really all the, thetourists were pretty much interested in
doing, but before long, you know, JacksonHole, a lot of guest ranches sprung up.
(05:49):
That was one of the real earlyindustries in Jackson Hole.
Mm-hmm.
And um, so that started people gettinginterested in visiting all these
really cool places up in the mountainsand people started doing pack trips.
So do you guys offer the servicesof guest ranching as well, or are
you just focusing on the outfitting?
That's a, that's a good question.
our family is involved in theguest ranch, it's called the Lynn
(06:11):
Canyon Ranch over in Victor, Idaho.
And myself and my mom and dad andmy aunt and uncle were, kind of put
that together At this point, my auntand uncle just own it, but we do
have a guest ranch in the family.
you know, in the end it'sall sort of the same.
You're just welcoming people toJackson Hole and, and showing them
some of the cool things to see here.
I've been to a few
weddings over there.
(06:31):
It's a
magnificent spot.
Yeah, that was really fun when my, when mygrandparents decided they were gonna sell
the ranch on this side and move over therecause it's a little warmer over there.
Not much, but a little bit.
Maybe you can grow agarden a little easier.
and then my dad and his brothersand sisters got together and they
bought the ranch from, on this sidefrom their parents and, and that's
(06:52):
why we're still able to be here.
That's beautiful.
Now let's talk about outfitting hasmuch changed in the world of outfitting
from when your great-grandfather andslim Pendergraph were, were doing it
to now when you're doing outfitting.
You know, compared to everythingelse in this world, I don't think
very much has, you know, thegears maybe evolved a little bit.
(07:15):
We have coolers and things likethat, but for the most part, you
know, the saddles are really similar.
doing pretty much the same thing.
Um, you know, they didn't have chainsawsor anything, and we don't either.
well, let's, let's clarify that Whenyou're out in the wilderness, You can't
take a chain, you can't use a chainsaw.
Yeah.
We are, we are just blessed in thiscountry to have such a big wilderness
(07:37):
system and to be able to go into a place,uh, that's relatively untrammeled by,
by humans and doesn't have motors anddoesn't have, well, sometimes there is
a cell phone unfortunately, but, butit doesn't have wheels and it's really
a pretty primitive, place to visit.
what's it like for the type of tripsand the length of time that you
(07:57):
would take people out now comparedto when your great-grandfather or and
grandfather were taking people out?
Well, you know, the stories thatwe hear about my great-granddad,
and we have some old brochures andstuff from when he was doing it.
they would do two 30 day hunts a year,and people would come from around the
country on to the end of the rail railroadover in Victor, Idaho, and they'd get
(08:20):
a ride over Teton Pass and a buggy or.
Maybe on a horse and they'd come toour ranch here in Wilson and they'd
get outfitted and load up the wagonwith all the supplies as they need.
And they'd head off up into Grand TetonNational Park or before it was a park
or up into the Teton wilderness, andthey'd spend a do a 30 day hunt, and
they'd probably get several of thedifferent species along the way and share
(08:41):
with some folks what someof those species are.
That would, that they would've
hunted?
You know, I think probablythe most popular one, even
back then was hunting elk.
You know, this is a famousplace to come hunt a big elk.
but there's also, you know, great muledeer, sheep, moose, maybe even bears.
You know, I don't think therewas a lot of grizzly bears.
There might have been, but I thinkthey would hunt a black bear.
(09:04):
And was there a
period of time when the bison.
They would not have seen anybison or do you ever see, do the
bison make it that far back intothe wilderness of where you are?
You know, I don't know about that.
Um, I don't know if there would've beenbison in the valley at that point or not.
Uhhuh.
Um, at this point we don't really see 'em.
We see 'em when we're driving upto the trail head, but we don't
(09:25):
see 'em up in the mountains.
Okay.
Of course, we are on the southside of the buffalo plateau, so
at some point there must havebeen some buffalo up on top of it.
good point.
Yeah.
I'm curious about some of the animalsthat maybe we don't always see very much.
So if we're hiking around here, wecan see some big horn sheep, might
(09:46):
see some goats, but there's some otheranimals that certainly live out here
that we know that, that are out here.
but we might not see 'em as much.
have you ever come across.
Signs of or seen Wolverinebeing back there.
I have, I've seen I thinkone Wolverine for sure.
up in the Tetons Uhhuhat, at pretty close range.
(10:08):
I was sitting on some rocks andI saw him and he kind of saw me
and he walked behind the one treethat was there and disappeared.
Hmm.
Um, they kind of pretend likethey don't see you, but they
have a pretty distinctive gate.
They kind of amble along.
Uh, I've seen several up in Alaska,but I think that one for sure, and, and
several possible sightings down here.
I think you're one of the fewpeople that I've ever spoken to
(10:29):
that's actually seen a Wolverine.
Yeah, yeah.
It's a pretty cool animal.
What are some other
animals that, unless people areout there in the wilderness area
that you might not really see?
Oh geez.
you know, I don't know.
We do see, grizzly bears quitea bit more and more every year.
Um, and nowadays we're lucky enoughto have some wolves out there.
(10:51):
We don't see 'em very often, but youknow, every year we'll see some wolves.
Now with the wolves.
Is there much interaction?
Uh, if you don't see a much I'mtaking it, there's probably not a
whole lot of interaction betweenyou, you as an outfitter and them.
Oh no, there's not really any interaction.
I mean, people worry about 'em whenwe talk about 'em on every trip, but
(11:13):
they really, you know, they don'tbother us or anything like that.
Um, we do see and find where they've,Where they've caught elk a few times.
Uhhuh, uh, in fact, last year when werode into our camp, uh, there was a
dead elk in the river that was probablykilled by ri by the wolves in about 200
yards downstream from where our camp was.
Hmm.
And um, we did see a fewwolves coming into that.
(11:35):
And what do you take with
you for protection against the wolvesif you were to have a interaction
with wolves?
I, I don't worry aboutanything with wolves.
Wolves don't attack people.
It's not a problem.
Okay.
Um, you know, we do have to be prettycareful with the grizzly bears.
so we take a variety of things.
We'll have, uh, certainly some bear spray.
we'll have some dogs with usand those are usually kind of
(11:57):
give us some early warning.
Grizzly bears don't prey on people either.
You just have to be carefulnot to surprise them.
Mm-hmm.
So, you know, you're, you justtravel, like you should be traveling
in groups and making noise so youdon't come around the corner and, you
know, and, and surprise the bears.
And then, you know, we'llusually have a pistol along too.
And does it make a
difference traveling with a dog?
So you don't surprise that
(12:18):
bear?
Oh, the dogs just have such a good nose.
a lot of times our dogs havetold us there's bears way, way
before we've ever seen them.
Mm-hmm.
Sounds like I should hike more with a dog.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I have an Dale Terrier that Itake with me as my bear dog.
And in the wintertime she,she's also an avalanche dog at
the Jackson Mountain Resort.
Oh, really?
Yeah.
Are you involved with somestuff out there at Jackson Hole
(12:41):
Mountain Resort in the winter?
I am.
Yep.
That's my w my winter job is, uh, onthe, on the Jacksonville Ski Patrol.
Are you
okay, so again, Jack of all trades,you gotta do something in the
winter survive.
Yeah.
Every successful outfit has got a,got a job in the winter as well.
Uhhuh.
Okay.
Yeah.
Now,
where else are you taking people Foryour trips that people, so over the
(13:03):
years we've collected several permits.
Uh, my dad's original permitwas, uh, mostly in the Tetons,
um-huh From the I Idaho side.
So the west side of the Tetons,all the way from the Yellowstone
line down to Teton Pass.
And so we do do severaltrips a year over there.
a lot of those trips end upbeing hiking trips and they're
horse supported hiking trips.
Uh, we like to do go down the,Teton Crest Trail every year.
(13:26):
Um, but the Tetons, they both havea fair amount of people in them
and they're also a pretty highelevation sensitive place to go.
So we try to take a few less horsesthan we do on some of our other trips.
so the hiking trips work quite well there.
And then we like to visitthe Grove VAs every year.
Uh, we mostly go off the GrokRiver up into Crystal Creek or
the head of the Grovo, and it'sjust such a different range from
(13:50):
both of the other ones we go to.
It's, it's just a reallyawesome place to go every year.
And then, um, the main place wego this at this point is the Teton
Wilderness, kind of the north end ofJackson Hole, just south of Yellowstone.
Yeah.
When, when you're taking peoplein, in the back country, What
does the experience look like?
(14:11):
If people were to look at itfrom the 10,000 foot view, what
would they see with your outfit?
Taking people out into the wilderness.
you know, I think whatpeople would see if they.
If they could see it from the 10,000foot level is it is just slows down.
Life sort of slows down and youstart, you know, appreciating
(14:32):
some of the things that just youkind of breeze by on a normal day.
we like to do at least a five day trip.
You know, in the past we've done quite afew shorter ones, at this point, you know,
at least five or six days and you're, youknow, the first day or two you might kind
of be wondering what's next, what's next?
And after a while you can justrelax and be in the wilderness.
Or to notice some of the thingsthat you don't notice on a,
(14:53):
on a normal, busy day in town,
I'm sure slowing down a little bitmakes an experience of what you are
offering far more enjoyable thanthinking about what's next, what's next?
I
think so.
you know, certainly a lot of the peoplethat have come with us on trips and
a lot of people come back and do,many, many trips, the, they always
(15:16):
end up doing longer and longer trips.
This day and age people visitingthe West, they need to see six
different national parks in one week.
And, uh, I, you know, I think whatthey really want to do is just get out
there into the wilderness where it'squiet and they can't hear their phone
ringing and, and just relax a little bit.
Well, I think there's a bigdifference between what you said,
(15:37):
seeing six different parks in aweek time versus experiencing.
One park in one, in one area, likewhat you're doing for a week period?
I certainly
think so.
you know, to visit Yellowstone tosee some of the places up there is
so different in the back country thanlooking out of a window of a tour bus.
(15:57):
Oh, for sure.
about what we get to do herein the spring and the fall.
We just wrapped up the opportunity.
Where the Bradley Taggart Lake Roadhead, you know, from there all the
way up to signal that road is closed.
And the difference of the experienceof riding your bike or walking
(16:22):
that road is so different comparedto if you're just driving through
there.
Yeah, yeah.
What a difference a monthmakes, you know, go there and.
In the 1st of June and try toride your bike up that road.
It's, it's amazing.
And you can't blame 'em.
Everybody wants to come and see this.
It's a beautiful place.
I'm to know what age do people begin goingon a pack trip with you all and up to and
(16:47):
up to what age would somebody go with you?
you know, that's a good question.
Um, you know, we have an insurancepolicy and I think, I think that
says six years old is the earliest.
but it depends, you know, some people,like my daughter has been going on in
there since she was one years old, so.
Mm-hmm.
Um, she's, she's six and thiswill be the six years in a
row that she's been going in.
(17:07):
and then it depends, you know, uh,if you take care of yourself and
get lucky, you know, there's, I'vebeen on, uh, Some really cool trips.
Two years ago, for instance, wehad a trip with some great friends.
did about a hundred mile loop andeverybody was over 70 and there were some
bumps and bruises and it wasn't alwayspretty, but, did a pretty awesome trip
and made it to over 11,000 feet and, andsaw several different rivers and including
(17:31):
the very top of the Shoshone River.
I, I
can't imagine to go see the originationpoint of some of these rivers.
That just is, sounds magnificent.
Yeah, we're, we're lucky here.
We live, you know, there's lots of placeswhere you can consider the top of the
continent, but you know, not far away.
You know, the head of the, ColumbiaRiver starts, you know, the Snake River
(17:55):
drainage flows down into the Columbia and.
And you can stand on one mountain and,and, uh, on one side, the, the Snake
River is flowing off towards the westand, and then there's the Green River
flowing down to the Colorado, and thenthere's the Mississippi River starting
off the other side of the mountain.
Man, I gotta get back there.
Yeah.
Yeah.
There's, there's a really neat mountainover in the, oh, it would be the northwest
(18:19):
side of the wind Rivers, and I thinkit's called Three Rivers Mountain, where,
where all three rivers start off of that.
That's, and there's lots of tributariesto all three of those different
rivers, but it's one, one of them, huh.
How does this make
you feel that you've had the opportunityto grow up in these mountains and
now you're sharing 'em with, withother people this experience?
(18:44):
Oh, I feel amazingly lucky to beable to grow up doing what I've done.
I mean, every day.
I mean, I'm excited to go to work.
And I, you know, for me that'skind of the secret to life.
If you wake up and you're just excitedto do what you've been, you're doing,
it's, it's, uh, it's a lot of fun.
Recently we've, uh, expanded to geta ranch over in Kiner, Wyoming, just
(19:05):
on this side of Riverton, and that'shad all kinds of new tra challenges.
to farm a little bit.
What are you learning to farm over there?
Oh, I just planted about 40acres of alfalfa and grass.
so we have about 80 acres that we can growenough hay to get through the winter on.
Okay.
And, and, um, so we'relearning to be farmers.
How's that going so far?
(19:26):
It's been a challenge.
It's been an adventure, but I thinkwe, uh, I think we got there and, you
know, looking at the forecast, I mighteven get a little of rain this week.
Yeah, it does look like it mightrain a little bit for for sure.
so is there a difference between yourriding horse and your pack horse?
And do you use horses or, or mules?
(19:46):
You know, my family has reallytraditionally been on horseback uhhuh.
Uh, there's a lot of outfitters aroundthat, like mules and I have several of
them, and I do like 'em quite a bit.
But for the most part,we're riding horses.
And, sometimes there's horsesthat are way better at riding or
way better in the pack string.
But, the most useful horsedoes anything you want to do.
(20:07):
So, our best horses will do either one.
And when
you're back there, how manypeople are you taking per guest
and
Well, we.
Yeah, Anna, that's another good question.
We do several different kinds of trips.
Mm-hmm.
Um, so we can do, we do ourhorse supported hiking trips.
and that we can have a few morepeople because we don't have to,
worry about having too many horses.
(20:29):
Mm-hmm.
Uh, there is a limit on the numberof people and horses you can
take into the wilderness, so youdon't run into too big a groups.
We do progressive travel, where wego anywhere in the, in the Tetons or
the Gro VAs or the Teton Wilderness.
And you know, that's about eightpeople is a pretty good group for that.
then when we make it up into ourPendergraft camp, which we'll
set up around August 1st, we're,we're set up there for 12 people.
(20:53):
There's a few more, but we don't have topack all the tents or anything like that.
And so, makes it a little easier.
What do you mean you don'thave to pack the tents in?
Uh, we have what's known asan assigned site there, Uhhuh.
So the Forest Service, uh,allows us to go in there.
It's a special use permit.
Through the Forest Service, andthey'll allow us to go in and set up
that camp and stay longer than thetypical allowed stay in the wilderness.
(21:17):
Uh, okay.
People these days, I believe, areallowed to stay for 12 days in, in
the Bridger Teton wilderness in onespot until you're supposed to pick
up your camp and go somewhere else.
And.
What are you setting
up to set up camp?
I mean, is it big tents for cooking
and, and sleeping, or We'll takewall tents in there, Uhhuh, so we'll
have six wall tents for people tosleep in, and then a cook tent.
(21:37):
you know, that's about it.
There's a few other littlethings here and there, but,
it's a pretty comfortable camp.
It's a camp that I think people havebeen using for about a hundred years.
Hmm.
And it's, it's, really sceniccuz we're right up tucked
against the Buffalo plateau.
So there's almost 2,500 feet of.
Rock right in front of us and there'ssome nice lakes to visit and it's
uh, just a, a really scenic spot.
(21:59):
The Teton wilderness is greatfor horses cuz when that volcanic
rock degrades, it turns into dirt.
So it's nice dirt trails andit's kinda easy on their feet
and you can go a lot of places.
Hmm.
Peter, we're gonna take a quick break toget a word from one of our sponsors, and
then we will come back and learn moreabout you and your outfitting group.
(22:20):
Sounds great.
Peter.
Welcome back.
We're learning a lot about what it'sto survive in Jackson as a rancher
and in the outfitting that you do.
when.
People are out on your, let's say,the Teton wilderness trip and, and
(22:40):
it's a multi-day night trip out there.
how much of it is for their recreation?
But when you're taking people out,should they expect that they'll have
to carry some of their own weight
on this type of trip?
Uh, no.
I mean, generally when you start apack trip, you know, you show up at the
(23:00):
trailhead and you get to know your horse.
So everybody has a horse.
you know, occasionally people like tocarry a backpack or something with some
extra stuff, but you have some saddlebagsand you have, you know, the way people
have been doing it for hundreds ofyears, you just tie a few things onto
your, your saddle and in a way you go,for the most part, the pack horses and
stuff would carry everything you need.
You know, we'll, we bring our coolersback to town and, and send the cook to
(23:21):
the store every time before every trip.
And, and in that pendergraph camp, that'sthe nice thing is we do have the, the
tents and stuff packed in, so, you know,we can travel a little lighter that way.
Because you don't haveto break that stuff down.
Each time you're taking,you're leaving with people and
then bringing another group
back in.
I don't if, you know, if, if we'regoing in and out of that camp
(23:43):
that we call the Pendergraph camp,uh, we don't have to do that.
But you know, if you're doingprogressive travel, Sometimes you
do, you know, and, and that can meaneither going into a camp and setting
it up for, you know, four or five days.
or it can mean going froma different camp every day.
You know, some people wanna try to see asmuch of the Teton wilderness as you can,
so you can, you know, plan out a reallybig loop and, you know, travel each day.
(24:08):
And in those traveling days, youknow, it can be longer, but I think
the, the right number is about 10to 15 miles, somewhere in there.
and find another place to camp and setit all up and take all those saddles
off and get your horses fed and, andmake some dinner and, you know, and,
uh, hopefully it doesn't rain onyou, but sometimes that happens too.
What
in nature?
It does
rain.
So yes, it, it does tendto rain a couple times.
(24:31):
You know, it snows, uh,the Buffalo Plateau.
you know, when we're here in Jackson,we think of the big peaks as the
Tetons, and they are the highest and,and the most dramatic looking ones.
But boy, up to the north,those plateaus are 11,000 feet.
Some of the peaks there go up intothe 12,000 feet and it's miles
and miles across the top of 'em.
Hmm.
(24:51):
It sounds like
this is something everybodyshould make an effort to
experience.
It's probably not for everyone.
Mm-hmm.
But, uh, you know, it's a, it'sa pretty cool thing to see.
and, and I wouldn't knock any ofthe other mountain ranges too.
You know, the groks are, arereally special in their own way.
There's a lot of wildlife therethat's a really old mountain range.
And the Tetons are theother end of the spectrum.
(25:12):
Just really dramatic.
And I think it's a veryyoung mountain range.
far as mountain ranges go,
you were, you, you mentioned youmight get, what, 10 to 15 miles a day?
Is, is that a lot of miles on horseback
in one day?
You know, it just depends on, on theterrain that you're in, you know,
if you know where you're going.
There are times when I do packtrips where I've never been there.
(25:33):
so you're kind of justfiguring it out as you go.
it, you know, we can go a lot furtherthan that sometimes when we're going into
the thoroughfare, which you mentioned.
That's maybe 22 miles or maybeeven a few more than that to get
all the way into hawk's rest.
Mm-hmm.
But the trails are good and you knowwhere you're going, pick the horses
that can really travel and but, youknow, 10 or 15 miles can be a huge day.
(25:54):
And there's a lot that goes into it,you know, when you're out there, pack
tripping, we get up, you know, beforedawn and, and get the horses caught.
And you gotta, you know, one of thebiggest tricks about doing pack trips
is holding onto your horses because, uh,most people when they go in, you know,
find a nice big meadow and let yourhorses go, they go right back to town.
You know, horses feel safest whenthey're standing there at the ranch.
(26:14):
So, uh, you know, it's,it's a, it's a little.
Juggling act, trying tohold onto your horses.
And that's one of the reasonspeople really like mules.
you get a bunch of mules, they'll pickone mare and they call that the bell mare.
And then if you hold onto that bellmare, all those mules will stay there.
Um, we typ, we typically usehorses, and not too many mules, but.
you know, our, and our horses have doneit a lot so they can feel comfortable
(26:35):
in a lot of different places,but we hobble most of our horses.
so you, you know, you tie their fronttwo feet together and then they can
move around and, you know, you thinkit's really gonna slow 'em down,
but every once in a while they'llgo 20 miles with those hobbles on.
No way.
Absolutely.
Yeah, they get really good at 'em andwe try really hard not to make that
happen because, uh, you know, some ofthem are really good at it, and then
(26:55):
they'll, they'll take a horse thatisn't quite as good at it and it'll kind
of bugger up his ankles a little bit.
Have you woken up before when you,you're like, where'd my horses go?
Oh, absolutely.
Yeah.
And it's a, it's a desperate moment.
It happens less and less, butcertainly when I was younger
doing this, you know, I started.
Really kind of takenover right after college.
(27:15):
I went to school up in Alaskaand um, that's sort of when I
took over the outfit from my dad.
And yeah, I've had many times whenI wake up and there's no horses
there, uh, a lot of people like toput bells on their horses so they can
kind of wake up in the middle of thenight and hear the bells, and they
know their horses are still around.
don't, I, the bells kind of keepme awake so I don't use bells, but,
you know, know pretty quick when youwake up and your horses are gone.
(27:36):
I, I would imagine so that wouldn'tbe, and it can be a long walk.
we're really lucky with our pendergraphcamp, which we do spend, oh, not
most of our time, but a lot of ourtime, the horses don't leave there.
It's kind of a, a box canyon, and we'recamped at the bottom end of it, and
there's enough grass and they, theyjust feel comfortable enough there
that they'll stay for a long time.
you know, horses need to eat andthey need to drink, but more than
(27:58):
anything, they wanna feel safe.
Uh huh.
it's almost though you want somebodyto stay up all night watching the
horses, make sure they don't go off onyou if you're not in the pengra camp.
Yeah.
Finding that employee is a little tricky.
Yeah.
Well, nobody probablywants to stay up all night.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I'm not doing that.
No.
I, I wouldn't do that.
No.
We know when we're out there, we usually,we'll always have some horses around.
(28:20):
so.
Tied up at night, you know,when we get into a camp, we'll
start feeding them right away.
So we'll have, some of those horseswill go out and eat for a couple
hours and they'll come back inand, and stand around all night.
And then in the morning they go back outand get another, get their breakfast.
And, so we've worked out a pretty goodsystem and we don't have too many runways.
it like finding
people to come and help youoperate these outfitting trips
(28:43):
nowadays are, are you able
to find people.
You know, I've been pretty lucky to havesome great people that have come along.
for some people it's sorta,you know, a bucket list.
They wanna come to a summerand see a lot of places, spend
a bunch of time on horseback.
it's a lot more rare for us to findpeople that wanna make this, their living,
what an amazing bucket list tofill to spend a few months out
(29:09):
in, in, in the wilderness area.
think it's awesome that you're stillable to find people because it seems
though, In today's labor market, itseems harder and harder to find people
that wanna get their hands dirty
a little bit.
Yeah, it certainly is.
And, and you know, that's what it takes,you know, when we're, you know, everyone
(29:29):
calls up and they wanna be a wrangler,you know, they wanna work with horses.
Uh, but really that job in, inIncludes doing dishes and setting up
tents and everything else that goesinto making, making a trip work.
Mm-hmm.
And yeah, we've been pretty luckyto find some awesome people that,
uh, are ready to, you know, roll uptheir shirt sleeves and go to work.
(29:52):
And how old were you when
you started helping yourdad with outfitting trips?
You know, I, I don't think when I was areally ki tiny kid, we went out very much.
But I remember, think myfirst pack trip was with my.
My grandparents when my grandmawas still alive, and I think I
rode on with her on her saddle.
And I, I, I can vaguely rememberit, at least I've heard the story
(30:13):
enough times that I remember it,that I, I lost my boots and I didn't
say anything, so we had to go backdown the trail looking for my boots.
But, and that was when my dad'scamp was up in, bitch Creek over
on the north end of the Tetons.
Mm.
Mm-hmm.
And, um, And then I, I think when I was,you know, 10, 12 in that region, I started
helping my dad every summer, spendingmost of my summer vacation out with him.
(30:34):
and then I went to school up in Alaska.
And, and after that, I almost stayedup there, but then I decided I needed,
needed some more horses in my life.
So I'm back here and, uh, and we'vejust been buying 'em and buying them.
Now we have way too many.
Too many horses.
Well, you know, horses arenot easy to keep around.
They take a lot of work, but,you know, we have all winter
long, we have way too many.
And then when we get to thesummer, we don't have quite enough.
(30:55):
Do you
keep your horses on your ranch in thewinter or, or do you guys ship your
horses off to a, a winter pasture?
know, we've always, pretty much kept 'emaround here, at least quite a few of them.
Uh, we do have a few cows thatwe keep around the ranch as well.
But a couple years ago we got theopportunity to buy a place over
near Riverton in Kiner, Wyoming.
Right.
And, uh, it's a lot warmer placeand a lot less snow over there.
(31:18):
so this last couple years, uh, we'vebeen shipping our horses over there
and our cows, uh, and it's a littledifferent, you know, I think, Almost
for the last 120 years, my family'sbeen hooking up a team of horses to
go out and feed the animals every day.
Mm-hmm.
All winter long.
And now we're not doing that.
It's a little bit sad in some ways.
We still have all this, you know,some wagons and some harnesses
and sleighs around and, uh, kindawondering what to do with them.
(31:41):
And
when you are on these outfittingtrips, is it now with your family
all hands on deck and now that
you have your.
Oh, I wish daughter.
It was every trip like that.
Uh, and we're getting closer to that.
Uh, my daughter's six years oldand she's, not a lot of help yet,
but, uh, she's getting better andbetter and, um, and my wife comes on
(32:01):
quite a few of the trips, but yeah.
I think every year Charliegets to go on a few more.
Um, this will be her 60year going into Camp Uhhuh.
so hopefully she cancarry on the tradition.
Yeah,
that'll be beautiful for that.
to, to keep that going.
Yeah.
She'll, you know, wewon't force it on her.
Everyone's gotta pick their own path, but,um, she'll certainly have that option.
(32:21):
Yeah.
So what
does the summer look like for you?
Is it, look, full?
You know, it's gonna be an interestingseason, you know, with as much snow
as there is up there in the hills.
we've postponed the start of ourseason and, you know, our first trips
are always into the thoroughfare.
Mm-hmm.
And it's, it's, uh, it's a tough tripcuz it's, uh, 20 something miles in
(32:41):
the horses are usually not in shape.
you have to make it over Trail Creek pass,which isn't terribly high, but even middle
of June, you'll run into snow up there.
And it can also be about 25miles of bogs to go through.
And occasionally the mosquitoesare just horrendous up there.
but we get to go in thereand fish for some of those.
Yellowstone Cutthroat that are comingup outta Yellowstone Lake and spawning.
(33:03):
And almost every trip we'vebeen there, the people who have
caught the biggest, cutthroatthey've ever caught in their life.
Hmm.
So that's kind of cool.
Uh, we're gonna start that about middleof June and then, uh, we work with some
kids, usually early season, and do acouple kids trips, and then we'll do
a few progressive trips and then we'llgo set up our pendergraph camp and,
and then on towards fall when the oaksstart, bugling, we'll go elk hunting.
(33:26):
I I'm
interested to hear once, when Junecomes around, what your trips are like
running in with all the snow and howslow it has been to melt this year.
yeah.
that keeps me up at nightoccasionally, but, you know, it is
what it is and, um, will work out.
There's plenty of things youcould stay up and worry about.
There's always something youcan stay up and and worry about.
(33:48):
For sure.
Well, Peter, if somebody wants toreach out and connect with you all
and set up a trip, how can they
do that?
Uh, we have a website, um, pendergraphoutfitters.com and, don't think we're too
hard to find around in Jackson Hole area.
you know, uh, it's, it's actually a great.
Time to be in this industry because,you know, and you know, 50 years ago
(34:11):
a lot of people had their own horsesand they did these trips on their own.
And it was a, it was a huge way thatpeople recreated around Jackson,
either hiking trips or pack trips.
but now a lot of peoplewould like our help.
And so you know, it's a popular thing.
I'm, I'm
thrilled that a industry ofoutfitting has changed so little.
Over the years and is being handeddown from different generations and is
(34:35):
continuing, continuing the course forpeople to experience such remote areas
of our, of our country and, see things.
The land, as you saidearlier, that's really.
Untouched by, by humans.
Uh, I think
it's, it's phenomenal.
It's, it's absolutely a wonderful thingand it's, you know, it's really special.
And one of the things that we reallytry to, convey to everyone that we take
(34:58):
out there, that it's, it's extremelyimportant to protect because mm-hmm.
You know, there, there are peoplethat aren't that interested in having
all these wild places like that.
So, you know, I think for people toget out there and appreciate it, that's
what, in the end will protect it.
Mm-hmm.
For sure.
Well, Peter, I so appreciate yourtime and putting up with all the
technical difficulties today.
(35:19):
it's been wonderful having thisopportunity to talk to you and learn
about your outfitting business and thefact that you, in the wintertime ski
patroller, keeping people alive and Yep,
safe air.
You trade my horse for some fat skis.
Yeah,
from outfitting to skier.
it's just the, what you gotta doout here, it, it's what people have
(35:41):
always done and that's what keeps it
interesting.
You know, when we get to the end ofthe fall and I'm tired of settling
horses in a snowstorm, like, you know,I just can't wait to get out there
and, go make some turns and the powdersnow and you what, by springtime
I'm ready to get back on my horse.
Oh, I'm sure.
Well, you had, one quick question.
So let's put the skiingand the horses together.
(36:02):
Have you ever done the ski drawing?
no, I have not.
Okay.
We do ski drawing with ourkids around the yard, Uhhuh.
but, uh, yeah, it's, uh, a lot ofpeople get hurt ski during, sometimes
the horses even get hurt, so, no,I don't, I don't do a heck of a
lot of ski drawing, but, all right.
It looks like fun.
I, I think you gotta be a braveperson to get out there and get hauled
(36:24):
by one of those horses and do the
ski drawing.
Yeah.
You know, they're going pretty fastand I have some good buddies that are
good at it and you know, and some of'em actually want some money doing it.
Good for them.
you know what I like whenI'm skiing is gravity.
Not only is it the law,it's a real good idea.
That sounds fair.
Well, Peter, thank youso much for your time.
You enjoy your day and keep on carryingon the tradition of your family history.
(36:49):
Thank you.
All right, Stephan.
Thank you very much.
Have a good day.
You're welcome.
All righty, sir.
Thank you.
Okay, good luck.
Take care.
Bye.
To learn more about Peter Lynn andPendergraft Outfitters, visit the jackson
hole connection.com, episode number 244.
Thank you everybody for listeningtoday Get out and share this
(37:09):
podcast with your friends andfamilies, Instagram and Facebook.
If you know, if somebody would liketo be a guest, send us their name.
We'd love to have.
Take care everybody.
Look forward to seeing you backhere for the next episode of
the Jackson Hole Connection.
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