April 4, 2025 • 48 mins
We’re kicking off our April Infertility Series with Jennifer Bullock—mom, wife, NBC4 news anchor and the true definition of a BADASS.
In 2021, Jenn’s world changed forever when she lost her beautiful baby boy, Miles at 33 weeks. What she’s done in the wake of that heartbreak is nothing short of extraordinary. Through unimaginable grief, she created Miles Mission, an organization built to raise awareness, fight for policy change, and support families navigating the devastating world of pregnancy and infant loss.
Jenn is beautiful inside and out, and her strength is next level. Her vulnerability, her fire, and her willingness to speak truth into the darkness—it's something special.
This conversation will move you, shake you, and remind you that even in the deepest sorrow, there’s space for purpose. It’s an episode for anyone who’s ever lost, ever loved, and ever needed to feel less alone.
Jenn, thank you for trusting me with your story. This is for Miles. 🩵
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Hey there you beautiful badass.
Welcome to the Keri Croft Show.
I'm your host, keri Croft,delivering you stories that get
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(01:14):
You're welcome, jenniferBullock.
Hi, welcome to the Keri CroftShow.
I'm so excited to be here.
You know, this is about a yearlate.
Yeah, it's a year late.
Yeah, and that's on me.
It's all good, but we're herenow.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
We're here now.
We're here together, yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
How are you feeling today?
Speaker 1 (01:30):
I'm good today.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
I'll admit I'm a little anxious, just because I
know what the topic is, but it'sand just to tee everybody up
here, we are going to have somesensitive, sensitive
conversations today around childloss, and so it it hits you
like it hits you like a wave.
It does, and that's anotherthing we do with grief is we
(01:55):
really try to mask it and it'slike this thing you're trying to
like a sneeze.
Absolutely, I mean I will have.
I have physical things I dowhere sometimes, like if I'm in
a conversation or if I'm inpublic and I feel something
coming on, I'll I'll like put mynail in or I'll pinch myself
really hard to try to likephysically change my brain.
Yeah, and we do that because wedon't want to make other people
like not you and I, weunderstand we're in this club
(02:18):
that we don't want to be in,yeah, but if you're out in
public or you're with someonewho doesn't you, you don't want
to upset the apple cart or makethem feel you don't want to make
them uncomfortable.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
You're always worried about the other person, and
that's what I've learned in myown personal grief journey is, I
don't need to be worried aboutsomeone else's comfort, because
this is my life, this is myreality and I shouldn't have to
protect your feelings when thisis what I'm feeling.
You know, and it's taken awhile for me to get there, but I
(02:48):
completely understandeverything you're saying.
I'm a I squeeze my thumb when Ibecause I'm I, naturally in my
career I hold my hands and soI'm a.
I'm a thumb squeezer when I'muncomfortable or I'm trying to
mask my feelings, or it may feellike it's inappropriate in the
setting or at the time to becompletely honest with what is
(03:09):
going on inside my head.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
And you can go off the deep end.
Yeah, you really can, and youdon't know when you're going to
put it back.
So the way that I describe itis I put this on a shelf, yeah,
and it's on a shelf and it'salways there.
It's where I can see it, likeit's on a shelf and it's always
there, it's where I can see it,like it's never gone.
But man, when I get it out, andif it comes out of nowhere, you
just don't and you can't get itback up there, then you're like
(03:33):
what the fuck?
Yeah, trust me, I get it.
So I'm doing an infertilityseries and it also includes
child loss, but it's going to bea lot around family building
and the ways people build theirfamilies and just the things
that happen when you arebuilding a family, and so I
figured you know this would be areally great way to to kind of
kick that off is to have you andI kind of lock eyes and share
(03:56):
our experience, not just as kindof a therapeutic moment between
two moms but, for that personat home.
that's like in it, that's inthat dark tunnel, whether it's a
couple of days out, weeks out,year, I mean it never goes away,
Never goes away.
Never goes away.
So, and your, your boy milesright, Was born still October
(04:17):
20th.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
Yeah, 2021.
Yeah, um, very unexpected.
I have two older children Noah,my son is eight, and then
Harper just turned five inDecember.
My daughter and we weren'tplanning for Miles.
I will say like my husband andI, we met in college.
We've been together like 16years total.
We didn't necessarily plan anyof our children, but we always
(04:41):
wanted a family and so we werealways of the if it happens, it
happens.
But Miles definitely we did notplan for.
Harper at that point was onlylike a year or so old and I was
not ready mentally to have twobabies, essentially because I've
always been working full time.
(05:02):
Thankfully, we've beenfortunate enough that my
husband's been home, stay athome, dad, taking care of the
kids full time, so that for himwas not a concern.
He was like absolutely, he'ssuch a great dad.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
What's his name?
Let's give him some Gerald.
I mean Gerald, shout out to youstay at home, dad.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
The moment we found out we were pregnant with Noah.
That was the first thing hesaid is what do you think about?
me staying home.
And I said if we can make itwork financially, then let's do
it.
And it's always been sobeneficial for me, because my
career, my schedule changesconstantly, but for our kids
it's been so beneficial to havethat constant and to have their
(05:41):
dad with them all the time.
And so when I found out I waspregnant with Miles, I said can
we do this, can we make it work?
And he said, oh yeah, he's likeI have no problem with it.
And so once the initial shockkind of wore off, that this was
going to be a reality, we wereexcited.
We were gearing up for babynumber three.
We were going to have two boysand a girl.
(06:03):
We were so excited.
And of all my pregnancies, mileswas my easiest.
I have some underlying healthissues that I had to figure out
with my other two pregnancies,but this one it felt like we we
figured everything out,everything was clicking at the
right time.
And then it just changed and itwas October 10th.
(06:24):
I woke up and it was a Sunday,and on Sunday I always go back
to Zanesville, where I'm from.
My family has a church thereand we go back and we go to
church on Sundays together.
And I told my parents I waslike he's gone, like I already
knew.
And they said well, are yousure?
And I'm like I, I he hasn'tmoved and I just know, I'm like
(06:47):
he's, I just know he's gone.
And at that point he was 33weeks.
So when we came back toColumbus I got to the hospital
and it felt like an eternity toget back to the room to even see
a doctor.
I knew when the nurse wastrying to put the monitor across
my belly, moving it aroundtrying to find a heartbeat, and
I told her there isn't one.
(07:07):
And she went and got the doctorand they did the ultrasound and
I caught the corner of thescreen and I just saw stillness
and I knew.
And then she said it, and Idon't even think.
Initially I cried because Ijust she confirmed what I
already felt.
But then the days after were alot of tears and a lot of
(07:31):
questioning and shaming myself.
I shamed myself because I, youknow, I thought I should have
done something sooner.
I knew, I knew he wasn't movingenough.
Did I?
Did I count the kicks?
Did I monitor everything enough?
I should have said somethingearlier.
I spent a lot of time as aperson who's very deeply rooted
(07:52):
in her faith.
I questioned a lot and I wasreally angry with God why this
could happen to me To me, likeI've heard, it happens to other
people.
But why?
Why my son?
Why why, after all these monthsof carrying him and there were
no indications that anything waswrong, why is this happening?
(08:15):
How do I explain to my thenfour year old and my barely two
year old that their brother'snot coming home?
And in the midst of all, thatit's 2021.
We're in COVID, so theycouldn't even come to the
hospital, they never met theirbrother and they never saw him.
While I'm trying to figure outhow to answer all of those
questions, I'm just living underthis dark cloud of all the what
(08:41):
ifs and the nevers.
I'll never get to see the colorof his eyes, I'll never get to
hear his laugh, I'll never feelhim grab my finger Like.
I'll never get to know what hecould have been.
And so you know, three, almostfour years later, I still have a
lot of those questions, but Ilike to say that the fog has
(09:04):
started to lift a little bit andnow that we're doing my family
is doing so much outreach in hisname, Some of those questions
have been answered and I like tosay I felt we found purpose in
our pain of losing him, and it'sa such a big purpose that I
don't think we would have beenable to help and reach as many
(09:26):
people had he survived.
And so you know, as a mom, youalways want your kids to be
better than you and you alwayswant them to do more and be more
and to have a legacy.
And my son never took a breathon this earth and my God does he
have a legacy.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
So it's been quite the journey and we will get to
to miles mission.
But and there's so much,there's so many angles to take
from what you just said and theway that something as earth
shatteringly traumatic is whatyou've been through, the, the
ripple effects it has everywhere, and so what struck me, um,
(10:08):
first with what you said, isthat you know how do I tell my
then four-year-old child and Ihave the same situation with my
son, dane, and he doesn't evenknow about the other two girls.
He only knows about Jade,because Jade lived in the in the
NICU for 16 days.
That's she's the last one thatwe had and that's like I'm like
he can learn when he's olderabout the other two, it's so
(10:29):
it's like so confusing, so muchand so to answer questions about
heaven, I find myself with twoleft.
I'm like, am I dumb?
And he will ask me in the mostwild times about Jade.
And like he wants to go toheaven to see her.
And he, where is she?
How do how do I get to heaven?
How do you?
Yeah, do you still get thosequestions?
Speaker 1 (10:49):
absolutely.
Yeah, my son's eight now andthey still, I think at the
moment too, I didn't realize howmuch this loss affected them
and how it still does, even youknow.
You know, last night mydaughter, harper, said I wish I
could just kiss Miles, and itcame out of nowhere.
We were doing nothing relatedto Miles, we were I think we
(11:12):
were watching Frozen orsomething like that, and she
just blurted it out at the mostrandom times.
They will bring him up, and soI didn't realize how much
they're still feeling that, eventhough I wasn't sure they
really understood.
Kids understand things in theirown ways and they, they kind of
piece things together in theirown way and I think a lot of
(11:33):
that has to do with their owninnocence, um, and how they view
the world, and even as somebodywho you know, like I've said,
my faith, faith is my guidinglight.
There were a lot of questions Ididn't know how to answer.
Even my parents, who are likemy go-to, they didn't know how
to answer.
Always, you try to be asdelicate as you can, but you
(11:54):
also want to be honest with themand you know well, if Miles is
in heaven, why can't we go?
Well, it's not time.
It's not time yet, like youhave so much more to do on this
earth.
Well, didn't he have anythingto do?
Yeah, but he's doing it in hisown way.
I think you just kind of, whenthe time comes, you know what,
(12:16):
what is right for your family,for your child, and then you
just hope and pray for the bestthat it makes sense in some way
to them it really does, though,make you you're like in your
head.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
You're like, okay, how the fuck do?
I answer that?
Because, like, dane will thinkwe talk about the continents,
yeah, and he in his mind, hejust thinks like heaven's, just
like next to antarctica.
He's like, well, you said wecould go to africa, why can't we
go to heaven?
Like, why isn't on the?
You know, it's the craziest,yeah, most, and like, depending
on how he says it and when hesays it, it's just the most
(12:46):
heart-wrenching thing, becauseyou can't really help them
understand you can't.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
And you know, like my kids, well heavens, that they
think heavens in the sky orabove the sky.
Well, can't we just get on anairplane and see and it's like,
no, it's not, it's not thatsimple and I try to just tell
them one day, when you're alittle bit older, we'll talk a
little bit more about it andit'll make, hopefully, a little
more sense just stay.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
A child is too complicated out here in this
adulting is too complicated, ohmy gosh, we haven't figured it
out.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
Um, so yeah, I just, you just try to do your best.
And thankfully they're kids, sotheir attention spans like this
and they're on to the nextthing.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
So something else that strikes me, and I know what
this feels like.
You know, when you know yourbaby is no longer has a
heartbeat, you still have todeliver.
Yeah, and you chose.
You opted for a C-section, Idid.
Yeah.
And you know, thank God not alot of people understand that.
But just going back into thatspace where you now have to have
(13:50):
this surgery, yeah, that'sgoing to be a climb physically
to get back from and you know,going in there is not going to
be this joyous is not going tobe this joyous.
Did you just black out?
I mean, do you have a memory,Like I'm sure you remember?
(14:13):
But was it just kind of likeJesus, take the wheel and you
kind of remember a little bit.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
Or how did that?
Yes, so I do.
Actually it's funny you sayJesus, take the wheel.
Because I think that choosingto have a C-section was the best
decision Ultimately.
To have a c-section was thebest decision ultimately.
I my other two pregnancies I hadc-sections because of some
complications, so I at leastknew what to expect.
But I knew just, you know thefact that Miles was no longer
(14:36):
living.
I just, for me personally, Icould not labor through that.
That might be right for somepeople and that's totally okay.
You have to make your ownchoice.
But for me it was like I just Ican't go through this long,
laborious process.
So I did opt for the C-section,having known previously what
(14:58):
the recovery was going to belike and C-sections are no joke.
I still have weird, randomphantom pains because of that.
I wish I could have blacked outa little bit more.
But even to this day I rememberso much of that entire
experience and you know, beingon the table, everything's
happening, and the doctor sayshe's beautiful, but you hear
(15:23):
silence.
That's what really just likebroke my heart in that moment.
And then I, like I said thatJesus, take the wheel, I found
out that the placenta wascompletely attached to my uterus
, grew through my uterus, and sothe doctor said I can't remove
this safely.
(15:44):
So the doctor said I can'tremove this safely, otherwise,
if I try to leave your uterusyou're going to bleed to death.
And part of me said, ok, likejust let me die.
I don't know how to explain tomy kids and my family and
everybody I know I'm in thisvery public position.
(16:07):
Everybody who's followed meknows that I'm pregnant and
expecting and I have to tellthousands of people I've never
met that I'm not bringinganother baby home.
Like yeah, I would rather die,honestly, yeah.
But my husband was in theoperating room and I looked at
him and he said we have abeautiful family and if we're
meant to have more kids, it'llhappen, whether it's surrogacy
(16:31):
or adoption, whatever that maybe, or if this is what we are as
a unit.
He said this is, this is enoughand this is OK.
And he said but I can't lose myson and my wife.
He said I can't, I cannot dothat, and so I opted to have a
total hysterectomy, not to saythat I don't know if we ever
(16:53):
would have tried again, but thatI was also grieving that loss,
that I lost my son and I lostthe chance to ever again grow
our family, naturally at least.
So all of that played into thegrief and the days to come as
well, wow, what a layer.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
I didn't even know that the finality of that.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
Yeah, and it was like it has to happen now because we
already have you cut open andon this table.
And so I remember they startedkind of messing around and I
remember starting to feel thingsand so they said we need to put
you under.
I remember struggling initiallywhen they put the mask, the
(17:33):
anesthesia on, because I didn'twant that, and so we kind of had
this moment of it was a panicattack and fighting and all of
this, and then finally I gave inand then I just remember waking
up and them saying are youready to see your son?
And it it felt almost like adream because I was still in
this groggy, waking up fromsurgery.
(17:55):
But they're saying here's yourson and I'm and I remember
thinking this doesn't feel likemy life, like I was just really
hoping that I would actuallywake up and this wouldn't be my
reality.
But it is and I've come to termswith it.
(18:16):
But I think in a lot of waysI've more so come to terms with
Miles's passing, but I'm stillso very much grieving not being
able to grow our family like Ithought we were.
We had always talked abouthaving four kids and just in
minutes that dream was likeripped away from me.
(18:39):
It's really hard being at thestage I am now where so many
close friends are expecting andI'm happy for them and I'm so
thrilled that they get to havethat experience.
But it hurts as well and Ithink those feelings can live
(19:02):
simultaneously, so that I thinkI'm still very much working on
healing from.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
They absolutely can and they do, and it's the
duality of it and I think that'san important message for all
the people who are out theresmiling and really trying hard
to push down the realities ofhopes dashed, dreams lost.
You know the weight, the way ittakes over your whole entire
(19:30):
life.
It's okay, you're not a badperson because you're having bad
feelings.
You are a good person goingthrough a really really hard
time and so you can be happy forother people and you can still
grieve for yourself and guesswhat else you can do.
You can talk about thatAbsolutely.
I think you know, looking backon it, you know it is this like
(19:51):
all of a sudden, you're shippedoff into this.
You know and I'm talking like,let's talk about just
infertility for a minute You'reshipped off to this island, this
land of misfit toys, whereyou're over here and waiting,
this land of misfit toys whereyou're over here and waiting,
and until you can come back tothe other side and have the baby
shower and have the happilyever after, you have to stay
over there and just, you know,pretend, yeah, you don't,
(20:12):
because guess what?
So many people are goingthrough that type of thing that
if we just are honest with eachother about it, like, hey,
listen, having a really bad daybecause I'm really sad that X, y
and Z, but I'm still so happyfor you.
You're my best friend.
That can be.
That can live together.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
Yeah, and it absolutely should and it should.
I remember, you know, seeingthis post on social media and it
said just because someonecarries it well doesn't mean it
isn't heavy, and I think that isso true.
How many of us are justshouldering these burdens of our
own thoughts and feelings anddashed dreams and lost hopes,
(20:57):
but putting a smile on foreveryone else around us and we
talked about that in thebeginning of making sure that
other people don't feeluncomfortable.
But that's why I thinkconversations like this are so
important, because we don't knowhow many people are really
feeling the same way that we'refeeling.
(21:18):
This is a topic that for so longpeople have not talked about,
that for so long people have nottalked about, and you never
really truly know what someoneis holding.
You really don't, and I'velearned that, as I've shared
publicly how many people who Iworked beside for years I had no
idea the losses that they hadexperienced, because they just
(21:41):
didn't want to talk about it.
We had no reason to talk aboutit and until I brought up Miles,
I had a line of coworkers andpeople I've known for decades
that said I actually had theexact same experience, or I've
had several miscarriages, orI've never been able to have a
child I never would have known.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
No, and I do love, I love a lot of things about
opening up these conversations,but it's that you are carrying
something inside and stuffingsomething down.
Damn, wouldn't it feel goodjust to get it out?
And if that makes someone elseuncomfortable, that's not the
person.
That's not the person.
(22:23):
There are people out there whowant to hear about your
miscarriage or your children, oryour hopes and dreams, and the
losses, people want to hearabout it.
So, this infertility seriesthat I'm doing, I will tell you
something.
So I wrote two posts, two posts, two little posts.
It brought me to tears theresponses.
I mean, they were the womenwriting to me.
(22:44):
It wasn't just like a hey, I'dlove to, it was almost like they
were like shouting from theirkeyboard paragraphs and then, at
the end this is so important,thank you for talking about this
.
So, yeah, talk about it.
You know, talk about the thingsyou have happening, the losses,
the trauma.
This stuff affects your mentalhealth.
(23:04):
You know, you wake up andyou're holding miles and you're
in this surreal moment that youwould do anything.
Although peaceful, I can onlyspeak for myself.
There is morbidity to it,there's something very obviously
very unnatural, but there'ssomething you feel close to God.
Yeah, absolutely Just the.
(23:28):
I remember every sound.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
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Speaker 1 (24:41):
This is like we said it's's.
It's therapy much, but it'salso our realities.
Yeah, and sometimes I think thatwe are overly brave and
courageous and always holding ittogether and having discussions
like this.
(25:01):
There are so many times whereI've either been invited to
speak or I ended up just havinga conversation with somebody
just out and about at Kroger,like because they've seen my
story, they know who I am andthey just want to share their
own experience.
And I'm able to.
I don't know if it's the graceof God, I don't know if it's
just how I'm feeling in thatmoment I'm able to hold it
together really well, and thenthe minute I get home, oh yeah,
(25:25):
it's just like yeah, and I loseit, and so I think moments like
this are really important to beable to release, oh yeah, and
when you meet someone who whoknows, it's like you get it.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
You get it.
You get it Because evenpeople's best intentions, people
who are closest to you, unlessyou've been in that situation,
yeah, you know.
So it really does feel like avery safe space, absolutely.
And so back to the like, themental health aspect of once
you're holding him, it all comesto, you know, comes full circle
(26:03):
, and then you have to go home,yeah, yeah, and pick up the
pieces, like not only physically, but then the mental aspect of
it.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
Absolutely, and it was like you mentioned it was.
It was a peaceful experience, Ithink.
Even just I spent about threeor four days in the hospital,
obviously because I had majorsurgery.
They wanted to make sureeverything was OK, and the
mental aspect of even just thatwas at times really traumatic,
(26:36):
because I had to ask forpermission basically to see or
hold my son to be released fromthe morgue, basically to see or
hold my son to be released fromthe morgue, and I could only be
with him at certain periodsbecause if his body got too warm
they needed to take him back.
It was COVID, so I could onlyhave two named visitors, my
(26:56):
husband being one of them, andthen we collectively had a
conversation and decided to makemy mom the other named visitor.
Thankfully, because my dad ismy pastor, he could come in as
clergy.
So my dad and my mom were ableto come in see him and hold him
and I'm glad at least they gotthat experience.
(27:17):
My family is very close, veryclose.
They were able to hold him.
And even my mom she's like my,all of our kids call her Nana.
My sister has two little boysand she's just the best mother I
mean when I tell you, angel onearth, I that's not even doing
her justice.
She is literal perfection.
(27:38):
And she, I remember, wassitting in the corner and she
was holding him and she was likerocking.
And in the moment I rememberthinking how beautiful that was,
that, even though he couldn'tfeel it for her it was really
healing and she was doing whatfelt natural to her as a
(28:00):
grandmother.
Then, you know, he would have tobe carted back to the morgue
for a little while and then thatfinal goodbye was really hard.
You know, my husband and I justheld him for a little while
longer and we kissed him and umgave him to the nurse, and
(28:23):
leaving the hospitalempty-handed is an experience I
don't wish on anybody.
And at that point I stillcouldn't really walk very well,
and so to be wheeled out and tojust get in the car, and that
was kind of it.
And I remember when I first,when we got back home, my sister
(28:47):
had my two oldest um, just togive us time to get adjusted,
and in the house, and it wasjust so quiet and I hated how
quiet it was.
And so my husband said, well,how about you like get in the
shower?
You take a shower.
And so I did that and I lockedup in the shower.
(29:09):
I had to call for him and hehad to pick me up and carry me
out of the shower because Iphysically could not move Like
my I don't know if it was me andmy brain, my muscles, I don't
know what it was but I just Icouldn't move and I lost it.
(29:30):
And so he picked me up out ofthe shower and he just held me
for a while and that was thefirst time I really cried, that
entire time that I was in thehospital, time that I was in the
hospital and I think, becausethat was reality really hit.
(29:51):
The drugs had worn off, I washome and in this space that we
had prepared for three kids, andto know that that wouldn't be
the case was really hard, and soI spent days in bed.
My family is incredible, like Isaid, my mom she took a full
week off work.
My sister lives here and shewas always helping with my kids.
(30:16):
They were just fantastic and myfamily literally took turns
just coming and laying next tome in bed.
My mom was like you need to eatsomething.
I don't care if it's crackers,like something.
She would run me hot baths andthey would just take turns, just
letting me know that I wasn'talone in this, even though I
(30:37):
felt like I'd never been morealone in my life.
I think it was probably a fullweek before I even saw the
outside again, because I justcouldn't.
I couldn't get out of bed.
I didn't want that reality andthat that was a space where I
didn't have to face it.
I didn't have to face people, Ididn't have to exist,
(30:58):
essentially because I didn'twant to have to exist in this
new reality and so the mentalaspect of it.
There are still a lot of thingsthat I'm trying to figure out.
Mentally I'm much better than Iwas in those early days, but
it's a journey and I think theycall it a journey for a reason,
(31:20):
because you're still trying tonavigate any new feelings or
thoughts that arise yeah, I meanit's.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
I think it's a forever thing that you, that you
sort of manage and sort ofexamine yeah and kind of changes
over time.
But yeah, I can remember toobeing in bed and that would be
the only not the place whereyou'd feel good at all, but like
you could kind of hide and notexist.
(31:48):
And then I can remember after abit was it a couple days or
something and my husband comesup and he's like do you want to
go for a walk?
Kind of like like let's, yougot to keep moving, you got to
get up, yeah.
And do you know something?
Can you remember when youstarted to get that little
whisper, though from yourself,where it's?
Speaker 1 (32:06):
like Jennifer.
Yeah, I, um.
I remember very vividly.
Actually it was Halloween andMiles was born October 11th and
it was trick or treat and we hadjust moved into our new house
and I think that was part of ittoo.
We had just bought a new housein June because we needed more
space.
We were having another kid andso we were in this new
(32:29):
neighborhood and it was thefirst year that we were able
remember taking part in, becauseit reminded me and it prompted
me.
You have these two children.
Yes, you lost Miles, but youstill have to be a mother to
(32:59):
these two children.
They need you children.
They need you, and I remembermy mom and my dad and my family
all telling me that you'realways going to be a mother to
Miles, like if it's something orsomeone that takes up space in
your mind.
Then they existed and they arereal and you are his mother, but
(33:20):
you're also mom to Noah and momto Harper and they need you
just as much, if not more, now.
And so I remember thinking, okay, as much as I'm still
navigating what this looks likeand trying to figure all of this
out, I still have to care formy other two children.
I want to care for my other twochildren and I want to be
(33:42):
present for them.
I don't want to look back andthink that I missed all of these
moments with them because I wastrying to figure out how to
live without Miles.
And you know, I always think offrom the perspective of Miles
too.
If he were looking down,thinking, oh my God, look at my
family, family, like they're soamazing.
(34:04):
And there goes my big brother,my big sister, and my mom's such
a great mom to them, and my dadis an amazing father and
they're creating all thesewonderful memories that someday
we're going to be able to to sitand talk and laugh and share.
And so I always have to thinkof it that way if Miles were
watching, what would he want tosee?
(34:26):
And so I got up out of bed andI didn't look my best, but we
were there, we wenttrick-or-treating and we did.
We had a.
Speaker 2 (34:35):
We had a great moment something tells me your looks
that your worst ain't that bad,honey.
Ain't that bad?
Maybe in my mind so the woman,who's the person who has gone
through that physical journey,yeah, you're going to handle
this different than even yourspouse and it sounds to me from
(34:57):
what you're saying you have avery loving, supportive spouse
who was able to help carry youand be the ebb and flow.
I just also want women to knowout there, if you are feeling
something with not feelingsupported or feeling like
someone is handling thingsdifferently, you know that's,
that's okay.
Speaker 1 (35:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:17):
It's, the grief is very different, for it's
different for a man than it is awoman.
Absolutely it's different forthe person who carried versus
the person who didn't, so alsogive yourself grace there too.
You don't have to be feeling.
Speaker 1 (35:29):
You're not going to feel something exactly the same
as someone else, and from day today, like there were moments
that for us it was clicking andit was great.
And I remember first cominghome and we both said we've got
to be together in this, and thenthere were moments where I was
feeling more than he was feeling, or he was feeling more than I
(35:51):
was feeling, or as a couple wewere just not clicking and it
was because that grief rollercoaster we weren't on the same
ride at that moment.
And that's OK, we've had tofigure it out, we're still
figuring it out.
But for every person, for everycouple, for every family, and
(36:12):
even within every individual,within those units, it's going
to look different day to day,and that's what makes us human
is just trying to figure it outtogether.
Speaker 2 (36:23):
But letting that be, letting it be different, yeah, I
think, is a powerful, it's asuperpower.
So if, if something brings youcomfort, remembering miles, but
it triggers your husband or youknow, somebody may want to put
balloons off.
That's what I love to do forJade and Angel and Hope by the
(36:43):
river.
It's just a thing, you know.
If, if that's a triggeringmoment for someone else, allow
it to be.
Some people can go throughphotos and just want to.
Yeah, some people like, if Isee a photo, it will just put me
over the edge.
So, yeah, I do think with grief, giving grace and allowing for
that, to understand the way yougrieve ain't the way the other
person and it's, it's okay it'sokay, there's nothing wrong with
(37:06):
.
We put too many expectations, Ithink, on the spouse.
Yeah, because they're ourspouse.
Speaker 1 (37:10):
Yeah, but they're just another human being going
through what they're goingthrough yeah, and for a lot of
us, it's it's the first time, orit looks different than it did,
it's it's all different.
Um, and we, our expectationshould be to have no
expectations because we just aretrying to figure this out Amen
(37:30):
to that.
Speaker 2 (37:31):
That's actually.
We need to use that foreverything in life have no
expectations.
You're going to have a lot ofpeace, honey, Exactly so when
did Miles' mission?
When was that the aha moment?
Like we need to do this onbehalf of Miles.
Speaker 1 (37:41):
So we, actually my family I mentioned my parents
and my sister and her husbandand kids.
We're all very close and wewere coming up on Miles' first
birthday.
I knew I wanted to do something, I just didn't know what.
But I knew I didn't want to bein town.
I knew I didn't want to be atwork or around too many people,
(38:05):
because I just needed an escape.
And so we booked a trip and, asan extended family, we went to
Florida and so we're staying inthis big condo.
My dad, this whole time was onhis laptop and I'm like, what is
he doing?
Like he's on vacation.
He shouldn't be working onsermons or you know whatever.
He's a very active and involvedman, so he sits on a lot of
(38:27):
boards and things like that.
But I'm like, dad, like we'reon vacation, what are you doing?
And he said I'm writing a book.
And I said, oh, okay.
And so he actually wrote a bookcalled Even Now I Know, and it
is all about that journey oflosing miles, figuring it out as
(38:49):
a family, some of his and mymom's own personal experiences
with grief that I didn't evenknow about because they were
sheltering me as their daughter.
And so he wrote this book,released this book, and then,
shortly after that, we sat downand had kind of like a family
meeting and he was the one whosaid we need to do something,
(39:14):
because he said, you know,writing this book and talking
with so many people, this is somuch bigger and there are so
many more people experiencingloss like this than we ever
really knew, because nobodytalks about it.
And so he was the one that saidthere's a mission for Miles and
(39:36):
there's a legacy and we need todo something.
And so my dad is the presidentof Miles's mission, I'm the vice
president and matriarch, my momis the treasurer, my sister is
the secretary, and we are anestablished nonprofit that just
works to raise awareness butalso to provide support for
(40:01):
people who are just figuringthis out.
At any stage whether it was amiscarriage, a stillbirth, an
infant loss decades ago itdoesn't matter.
If you're experiencing grief,we want to help you and we want
to make changes legislativelywhen it comes to bereavement
(40:22):
support, because I learned afterthe fact that there were a lot
of things in the hospital that Ididn't get that I could have
gotten, and I don't want anybodyelse who's experiencing this to
feel less than or to feel liketheir loss is overlooked or that
it doesn't matter enough, andso that's what we've been
(40:43):
working since 2023 to do.
Speaker 2 (40:46):
That's amazing.
Thank you, it's really amazing.
Thank you and I love yoursweatshirt.
Speaker 1 (40:50):
Yeah, so this is our logo.
My coworker, actually Rob, isan incredible graphic artist and
created the logo for us, andthis is Miles's hand.
We got some photos taken beforewe left the hospital and there
was this one photo where he washolding this heart shaped pillow
(41:10):
and you just saw his littlefingers, and so how do I get one
of those?
I think I have an in for you.
Speaker 2 (41:17):
OK, do you think you can hook me up with that?
For sure, OK amazing, but isthere anything else about that
experience?
Speaker 1 (41:24):
Miles' mission, anything else you want to make
sure that we yeah, I just wantto highlight the fact that I
mentioned when I was in thehospital that there were a lot
of things I didn't get, and Ididn't know that I didn't get
them until after the fact.
But you know, I'm not going tocall it the hospital system
because I don't think it's theirfault.
(41:44):
I think when you have such ataboo topic and there are a lot
of people advocating or pushingfor, they're only doing what
they know to do.
And so you know, having lost achild but then having to be
wheeled around on a maternityfloor and recovering from a
c-section while I'm listening toother babies cry in their
(42:07):
mother's room and you know I hadjust this symbol placed on my
door, that it was a symbol thatthey used to indicate that
you've lost, it's a, it's amother of loss, and I actually
got it tattooed on my wristbecause it stuck with me.
But so, like the nurse wouldlook at this symbol and know,
like when I enter this room shedoesn't have a baby, like she's
(42:29):
the only mother on this floorthat doesn't have a baby in this
room, and so I just felt liketortured almost for three or
four days, just listening tobabies cry and happy families,
and that wasn't the case for me.
And then you know miles beingwheeled back and forth to the
morgue.
We found out that there areseveral hospitals in the state
(42:51):
of Ohio, even here in centralOhio, that have cuddle cots, and
they are these bassinets,essentially, that are just
cooling mechanisms so that theyplace these cuddle cots in the
hospital room and the baby canstay in the room with you for
the entirety of your stay.
I didn't get that, and I was atone of the largest hospital
(43:11):
systems in the state and nobodybrought this up to me and I
didn't even know it was a thing.
And then I found out.
Had I gone to another hospitalI would have had access to that,
so I could have had Miles withme the entire time.
And so we have been workingwith Miles's Mission and some
partner agencies, with CuddleCot directly, to make sure that
(43:32):
every hospital system has atleast one, if not more, and
we've seen a lot of greatprogress there.
But, like I said, with thestandardization too, I shouldn't
have had to stay on a maternityfloor.
That's insanity to me.
Looking back, I'm like you knowthat, I think, hindered a lot
of my healing mentally, and sowe want to create this rule book
(43:52):
, essentially for hospitals tosay if you have several women or
families experiencing loss,this is what you should be doing
and you can't say yes or no, ormaybe because it's a
legislative standard.
So that's what we're reallypushing for, good for you.
Speaker 2 (44:11):
Thank you, that is just badass.
It really is.
And it just reminds me, ifyou're listening to this and
you're someone, or you knowsomeone, who feels a little
stuck in their grief, where theyare in this spin cycle, they
don't know what to do with it.
Plug into something, yeah, andmaybe reach out.
(44:31):
I mean, I'm all about the.
DM the email.
Reach out to Jennifer.
You know you can take the awfulfeelings and the things that
you're kind of stuck with.
There actually is joy there.
There is.
You have to tap into it andmaybe you're not ready, maybe
it's not time yet, but for thatone person out there who needs
to hear that you know there'ssomething you can plug in to get
(44:55):
that energy flow.
Speaker 1 (44:56):
Absolutely.
And I promise you like justreach out and even if we have
like a five minute chat, yeah,exactly yeah, there's something,
there's a space for everyone,especially if you've experienced
, or you've been close tosomeone who has experienced, a
loss.
Our biggest thing is almostlike creating this army.
(45:17):
Like we, there's strength innumbers for a reason, and the
more people who join this causeand say, yeah, this, it
shouldn't be this way, why hasit been this way for this long?
It's 2025.
Like, why are we just nowsaying, oh, I guess loss is a
problem and you know, we're nottrying to say that we're going
(45:41):
to make it go away.
Death is a part of life and Iknow that not everything is
preventable.
But there are people who areliving and existing right now,
who are experiencing theselosses and I could have been
another loss.
You know, after losing Miles, Ididn't want to live anymore and
without the support of myfamily, I can't say that I would
(46:06):
be sitting here with you rightnow, honestly, because I can't
imagine having to enduresomething like that on my own.
I really can't, and I know thatthere are people who have and
who will, and that just breaksmy heart.
And so I I want to be connected.
We have to be connected, wehave to be support system for
(46:31):
each other.
You need as many people aspossible on your side, because
this is this is a journey nobodyshould have to walk.
Speaker 2 (46:38):
No and raise your hand.
Your mental health iseverything.
And again you are not alone.
Hand your mental health iseverything.
And again, you are not alone.
Yeah, and we are in this cluband we have real big shoulders,
yeah, and big hearts so you knowyeah but, jennifer, thank you
so much for coming up on an hourI could talk to you for I
talked to you for days, truly, Iknow, I could as well I really,
(46:59):
really appreciate it.
I feel like I just had like avery cathartic, good uh therapy
session good, that's what itshould be.
Speaker 1 (47:05):
We should be able to just openly talk about this.
Speaker 2 (47:07):
Absolutely.
And again, please reach out ifyou, if you want to talk, if you
have someone that you know,please send this to them.
Carrie, at the Carrie Croftshow dot com, send me a DM.
You can send Jennifer a DM.
We are here and I know we canadd some value, right, yes,
absolutely, and if you're stillout there following your girl,
follow me on YouTube, spotify,apple or wherever you get your
(47:28):
podcasts.
And until next time, keepmoving, baby.
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(01:14):
You're welcome, jenniferBullock.
Hi, welcome to the Keri CroftShow.
I'm so excited to be here.
You know, this is about a yearlate.
Yeah, it's a year late.
Yeah, and that's on me.
It's all good, but we're herenow.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
We're here now.
We're here together, yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
How are you feeling today?
Speaker 1 (01:30):
I'm good today.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
I'll admit I'm a little anxious, just because I
know what the topic is, but it'sand just to tee everybody up
here, we are going to have somesensitive, sensitive
conversations today around childloss, and so it it hits you
like it hits you like a wave.
It does, and that's anotherthing we do with grief is we
(01:55):
really try to mask it and it'slike this thing you're trying to
like a sneeze.
Absolutely, I mean I will have.
I have physical things I dowhere sometimes, like if I'm in
a conversation or if I'm inpublic and I feel something
coming on, I'll I'll like put mynail in or I'll pinch myself
really hard to try to likephysically change my brain.
Yeah, and we do that because wedon't want to make other people
like not you and I, weunderstand we're in this club
(02:18):
that we don't want to be in,yeah, but if you're out in
public or you're with someonewho doesn't you, you don't want
to upset the apple cart or makethem feel you don't want to make
them uncomfortable.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
You're always worried about the other person, and
that's what I've learned in myown personal grief journey is, I
don't need to be worried aboutsomeone else's comfort, because
this is my life, this is myreality and I shouldn't have to
protect your feelings when thisis what I'm feeling.
You know, and it's taken awhile for me to get there, but I
(02:48):
completely understandeverything you're saying.
I'm a I squeeze my thumb when Ibecause I'm I, naturally in my
career I hold my hands and soI'm a.
I'm a thumb squeezer when I'muncomfortable or I'm trying to
mask my feelings, or it may feellike it's inappropriate in the
setting or at the time to becompletely honest with what is
(03:09):
going on inside my head.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
And you can go off the deep end.
Yeah, you really can, and youdon't know when you're going to
put it back.
So the way that I describe itis I put this on a shelf, yeah,
and it's on a shelf and it'salways there.
It's where I can see it, likeit's on a shelf and it's always
there, it's where I can see it,like it's never gone.
But man, when I get it out, andif it comes out of nowhere, you
just don't and you can't get itback up there, then you're like
(03:33):
what the fuck?
Yeah, trust me, I get it.
So I'm doing an infertilityseries and it also includes
child loss, but it's going to bea lot around family building
and the ways people build theirfamilies and just the things
that happen when you arebuilding a family, and so I
figured you know this would be areally great way to to kind of
kick that off is to have you andI kind of lock eyes and share
(03:56):
our experience, not just as kindof a therapeutic moment between
two moms but, for that personat home.
that's like in it, that's inthat dark tunnel, whether it's a
couple of days out, weeks out,year, I mean it never goes away,
Never goes away.
Never goes away.
So, and your, your boy milesright, Was born still October
(04:17):
20th.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
Yeah, 2021.
Yeah, um, very unexpected.
I have two older children Noah,my son is eight, and then
Harper just turned five inDecember.
My daughter and we weren'tplanning for Miles.
I will say like my husband andI, we met in college.
We've been together like 16years total.
We didn't necessarily plan anyof our children, but we always
(04:41):
wanted a family and so we werealways of the if it happens, it
happens.
But Miles definitely we did notplan for.
Harper at that point was onlylike a year or so old and I was
not ready mentally to have twobabies, essentially because I've
always been working full time.
(05:02):
Thankfully, we've beenfortunate enough that my
husband's been home, stay athome, dad, taking care of the
kids full time, so that for himwas not a concern.
He was like absolutely, he'ssuch a great dad.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
What's his name?
Let's give him some Gerald.
I mean Gerald, shout out to youstay at home, dad.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
The moment we found out we were pregnant with Noah.
That was the first thing hesaid is what do you think about?
me staying home.
And I said if we can make itwork financially, then let's do
it.
And it's always been sobeneficial for me, because my
career, my schedule changesconstantly, but for our kids
it's been so beneficial to havethat constant and to have their
(05:41):
dad with them all the time.
And so when I found out I waspregnant with Miles, I said can
we do this, can we make it work?
And he said, oh yeah, he's likeI have no problem with it.
And so once the initial shockkind of wore off, that this was
going to be a reality, we wereexcited.
We were gearing up for babynumber three.
We were going to have two boysand a girl.
(06:03):
We were so excited.
And of all my pregnancies, mileswas my easiest.
I have some underlying healthissues that I had to figure out
with my other two pregnancies,but this one it felt like we we
figured everything out,everything was clicking at the
right time.
And then it just changed and itwas October 10th.
(06:24):
I woke up and it was a Sunday,and on Sunday I always go back
to Zanesville, where I'm from.
My family has a church thereand we go back and we go to
church on Sundays together.
And I told my parents I waslike he's gone, like I already
knew.
And they said well, are yousure?
And I'm like I, I he hasn'tmoved and I just know, I'm like
(06:47):
he's, I just know he's gone.
And at that point he was 33weeks.
So when we came back toColumbus I got to the hospital
and it felt like an eternity toget back to the room to even see
a doctor.
I knew when the nurse wastrying to put the monitor across
my belly, moving it aroundtrying to find a heartbeat, and
I told her there isn't one.
(07:07):
And she went and got the doctorand they did the ultrasound and
I caught the corner of thescreen and I just saw stillness
and I knew.
And then she said it, and Idon't even think.
Initially I cried because Ijust she confirmed what I
already felt.
But then the days after were alot of tears and a lot of
(07:31):
questioning and shaming myself.
I shamed myself because I, youknow, I thought I should have
done something sooner.
I knew, I knew he wasn't movingenough.
Did I?
Did I count the kicks?
Did I monitor everything enough?
I should have said somethingearlier.
I spent a lot of time as aperson who's very deeply rooted
(07:52):
in her faith.
I questioned a lot and I wasreally angry with God why this
could happen to me To me, likeI've heard, it happens to other
people.
But why?
Why my son?
Why why, after all these monthsof carrying him and there were
no indications that anything waswrong, why is this happening?
(08:15):
How do I explain to my thenfour year old and my barely two
year old that their brother'snot coming home?
And in the midst of all, thatit's 2021.
We're in COVID, so theycouldn't even come to the
hospital, they never met theirbrother and they never saw him.
While I'm trying to figure outhow to answer all of those
questions, I'm just living underthis dark cloud of all the what
(08:41):
ifs and the nevers.
I'll never get to see the colorof his eyes, I'll never get to
hear his laugh, I'll never feelhim grab my finger Like.
I'll never get to know what hecould have been.
And so you know, three, almostfour years later, I still have a
lot of those questions, but Ilike to say that the fog has
(09:04):
started to lift a little bit andnow that we're doing my family
is doing so much outreach in hisname, Some of those questions
have been answered and I like tosay I felt we found purpose in
our pain of losing him, and it'sa such a big purpose that I
don't think we would have beenable to help and reach as many
(09:26):
people had he survived.
And so you know, as a mom, youalways want your kids to be
better than you and you alwayswant them to do more and be more
and to have a legacy.
And my son never took a breathon this earth and my God does he
have a legacy.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
So it's been quite the journey and we will get to
to miles mission.
But and there's so much,there's so many angles to take
from what you just said and theway that something as earth
shatteringly traumatic is whatyou've been through, the, the
ripple effects it has everywhere, and so what struck me, um,
(10:08):
first with what you said, isthat you know how do I tell my
then four-year-old child and Ihave the same situation with my
son, dane, and he doesn't evenknow about the other two girls.
He only knows about Jade,because Jade lived in the in the
NICU for 16 days.
That's she's the last one thatwe had and that's like I'm like
he can learn when he's olderabout the other two, it's so
(10:29):
it's like so confusing, so muchand so to answer questions about
heaven, I find myself with twoleft.
I'm like, am I dumb?
And he will ask me in the mostwild times about Jade.
And like he wants to go toheaven to see her.
And he, where is she?
How do how do I get to heaven?
How do you?
Yeah, do you still get thosequestions?
Speaker 1 (10:49):
absolutely.
Yeah, my son's eight now andthey still, I think at the
moment too, I didn't realize howmuch this loss affected them
and how it still does, even youknow.
You know, last night mydaughter, harper, said I wish I
could just kiss Miles, and itcame out of nowhere.
We were doing nothing relatedto Miles, we were I think we
(11:12):
were watching Frozen orsomething like that, and she
just blurted it out at the mostrandom times.
They will bring him up, and soI didn't realize how much
they're still feeling that, eventhough I wasn't sure they
really understood.
Kids understand things in theirown ways and they, they kind of
piece things together in theirown way and I think a lot of
(11:33):
that has to do with their owninnocence, um, and how they view
the world, and even as somebodywho you know, like I've said,
my faith, faith is my guidinglight.
There were a lot of questions Ididn't know how to answer.
Even my parents, who are likemy go-to, they didn't know how
to answer.
Always, you try to be asdelicate as you can, but you
(11:54):
also want to be honest with themand you know well, if Miles is
in heaven, why can't we go?
Well, it's not time.
It's not time yet, like youhave so much more to do on this
earth.
Well, didn't he have anythingto do?
Yeah, but he's doing it in hisown way.
I think you just kind of, whenthe time comes, you know what,
(12:16):
what is right for your family,for your child, and then you
just hope and pray for the bestthat it makes sense in some way
to them it really does, though,make you you're like in your
head.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
You're like, okay, how the fuck do?
I answer that?
Because, like, dane will thinkwe talk about the continents,
yeah, and he in his mind, hejust thinks like heaven's, just
like next to antarctica.
He's like, well, you said wecould go to africa, why can't we
go to heaven?
Like, why isn't on the?
You know, it's the craziest,yeah, most, and like, depending
on how he says it and when hesays it, it's just the most
(12:46):
heart-wrenching thing, becauseyou can't really help them
understand you can't.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
And you know, like my kids, well heavens, that they
think heavens in the sky orabove the sky.
Well, can't we just get on anairplane and see and it's like,
no, it's not, it's not thatsimple and I try to just tell
them one day, when you're alittle bit older, we'll talk a
little bit more about it andit'll make, hopefully, a little
more sense just stay.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
A child is too complicated out here in this
adulting is too complicated, ohmy gosh, we haven't figured it
out.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
Um, so yeah, I just, you just try to do your best.
And thankfully they're kids, sotheir attention spans like this
and they're on to the nextthing.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
So something else that strikes me, and I know what
this feels like.
You know, when you know yourbaby is no longer has a
heartbeat, you still have todeliver.
Yeah, and you chose.
You opted for a C-section, Idid.
Yeah.
And you know, thank God not alot of people understand that.
But just going back into thatspace where you now have to have
(13:50):
this surgery, yeah, that'sgoing to be a climb physically
to get back from and you know,going in there is not going to
be this joyous is not going tobe this joyous.
Did you just black out?
I mean, do you have a memory,Like I'm sure you remember?
(14:13):
But was it just kind of likeJesus, take the wheel and you
kind of remember a little bit.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
Or how did that?
Yes, so I do.
Actually it's funny you sayJesus, take the wheel.
Because I think that choosingto have a C-section was the best
decision Ultimately.
To have a c-section was thebest decision ultimately.
I my other two pregnancies I hadc-sections because of some
complications, so I at leastknew what to expect.
But I knew just, you know thefact that Miles was no longer
(14:36):
living.
I just, for me personally, Icould not labor through that.
That might be right for somepeople and that's totally okay.
You have to make your ownchoice.
But for me it was like I just Ican't go through this long,
laborious process.
So I did opt for the C-section,having known previously what
(14:58):
the recovery was going to belike and C-sections are no joke.
I still have weird, randomphantom pains because of that.
I wish I could have blacked outa little bit more.
But even to this day I rememberso much of that entire
experience and you know, beingon the table, everything's
happening, and the doctor sayshe's beautiful, but you hear
(15:23):
silence.
That's what really just likebroke my heart in that moment.
And then I, like I said thatJesus, take the wheel, I found
out that the placenta wascompletely attached to my uterus
, grew through my uterus, and sothe doctor said I can't remove
this safely.
(15:44):
So the doctor said I can'tremove this safely, otherwise,
if I try to leave your uterusyou're going to bleed to death.
And part of me said, ok, likejust let me die.
I don't know how to explain tomy kids and my family and
everybody I know I'm in thisvery public position.
(16:07):
Everybody who's followed meknows that I'm pregnant and
expecting and I have to tellthousands of people I've never
met that I'm not bringinganother baby home.
Like yeah, I would rather die,honestly, yeah.
But my husband was in theoperating room and I looked at
him and he said we have abeautiful family and if we're
meant to have more kids, it'llhappen, whether it's surrogacy
(16:31):
or adoption, whatever that maybe, or if this is what we are as
a unit.
He said this is, this is enoughand this is OK.
And he said but I can't lose myson and my wife.
He said I can't, I cannot dothat, and so I opted to have a
total hysterectomy, not to saythat I don't know if we ever
(16:53):
would have tried again, but thatI was also grieving that loss,
that I lost my son and I lostthe chance to ever again grow
our family, naturally at least.
So all of that played into thegrief and the days to come as
well, wow, what a layer.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
I didn't even know that the finality of that.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
Yeah, and it was like it has to happen now because we
already have you cut open andon this table.
And so I remember they startedkind of messing around and I
remember starting to feel thingsand so they said we need to put
you under.
I remember struggling initiallywhen they put the mask, the
(17:33):
anesthesia on, because I didn'twant that, and so we kind of had
this moment of it was a panicattack and fighting and all of
this, and then finally I gave inand then I just remember waking
up and them saying are youready to see your son?
And it it felt almost like adream because I was still in
this groggy, waking up fromsurgery.
(17:55):
But they're saying here's yourson and I'm and I remember
thinking this doesn't feel likemy life, like I was just really
hoping that I would actuallywake up and this wouldn't be my
reality.
But it is and I've come to termswith it.
(18:16):
But I think in a lot of waysI've more so come to terms with
Miles's passing, but I'm stillso very much grieving not being
able to grow our family like Ithought we were.
We had always talked abouthaving four kids and just in
minutes that dream was likeripped away from me.
(18:39):
It's really hard being at thestage I am now where so many
close friends are expecting andI'm happy for them and I'm so
thrilled that they get to havethat experience.
But it hurts as well and Ithink those feelings can live
(19:02):
simultaneously, so that I thinkI'm still very much working on
healing from.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
They absolutely can and they do, and it's the
duality of it and I think that'san important message for all
the people who are out theresmiling and really trying hard
to push down the realities ofhopes dashed, dreams lost.
You know the weight, the way ittakes over your whole entire
(19:30):
life.
It's okay, you're not a badperson because you're having bad
feelings.
You are a good person goingthrough a really really hard
time and so you can be happy forother people and you can still
grieve for yourself and guesswhat else you can do.
You can talk about thatAbsolutely.
I think you know, looking backon it, you know it is this like
(19:51):
all of a sudden, you're shippedoff into this.
You know and I'm talking like,let's talk about just
infertility for a minute You'reshipped off to this island, this
land of misfit toys, whereyou're over here and waiting,
this land of misfit toys whereyou're over here and waiting,
and until you can come back tothe other side and have the baby
shower and have the happilyever after, you have to stay
over there and just, you know,pretend, yeah, you don't,
(20:12):
because guess what?
So many people are goingthrough that type of thing that
if we just are honest with eachother about it, like, hey,
listen, having a really bad daybecause I'm really sad that X, y
and Z, but I'm still so happyfor you.
You're my best friend.
That can be.
That can live together.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
Yeah, and it absolutely should and it should.
I remember, you know, seeingthis post on social media and it
said just because someonecarries it well doesn't mean it
isn't heavy, and I think that isso true.
How many of us are justshouldering these burdens of our
own thoughts and feelings anddashed dreams and lost hopes,
(20:57):
but putting a smile on foreveryone else around us and we
talked about that in thebeginning of making sure that
other people don't feeluncomfortable.
But that's why I thinkconversations like this are so
important, because we don't knowhow many people are really
feeling the same way that we'refeeling.
(21:18):
This is a topic that for so longpeople have not talked about,
that for so long people have nottalked about, and you never
really truly know what someoneis holding.
You really don't, and I'velearned that, as I've shared
publicly how many people who Iworked beside for years I had no
idea the losses that they hadexperienced, because they just
(21:41):
didn't want to talk about it.
We had no reason to talk aboutit and until I brought up Miles,
I had a line of coworkers andpeople I've known for decades
that said I actually had theexact same experience, or I've
had several miscarriages, orI've never been able to have a
child I never would have known.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
No, and I do love, I love a lot of things about
opening up these conversations,but it's that you are carrying
something inside and stuffingsomething down.
Damn, wouldn't it feel goodjust to get it out?
And if that makes someone elseuncomfortable, that's not the
person.
That's not the person.
(22:23):
There are people out there whowant to hear about your
miscarriage or your children, oryour hopes and dreams, and the
losses, people want to hearabout it.
So, this infertility seriesthat I'm doing, I will tell you
something.
So I wrote two posts, two posts, two little posts.
It brought me to tears theresponses.
I mean, they were the womenwriting to me.
(22:44):
It wasn't just like a hey, I'dlove to, it was almost like they
were like shouting from theirkeyboard paragraphs and then, at
the end this is so important,thank you for talking about this
.
So, yeah, talk about it.
You know, talk about the thingsyou have happening, the losses,
the trauma.
This stuff affects your mentalhealth.
(23:04):
You know, you wake up andyou're holding miles and you're
in this surreal moment that youwould do anything.
Although peaceful, I can onlyspeak for myself.
There is morbidity to it,there's something very obviously
very unnatural, but there'ssomething you feel close to God.
Yeah, absolutely Just the.
(23:28):
I remember every sound.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
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Speaker 1 (24:41):
This is like we said it's's.
It's therapy much, but it'salso our realities.
Yeah, and sometimes I think thatwe are overly brave and
courageous and always holding ittogether and having discussions
like this.
(25:01):
There are so many times whereI've either been invited to
speak or I ended up just havinga conversation with somebody
just out and about at Kroger,like because they've seen my
story, they know who I am andthey just want to share their
own experience.
And I'm able to.
I don't know if it's the graceof God, I don't know if it's
just how I'm feeling in thatmoment I'm able to hold it
together really well, and thenthe minute I get home, oh yeah,
(25:25):
it's just like yeah, and I loseit, and so I think moments like
this are really important to beable to release, oh yeah, and
when you meet someone who whoknows, it's like you get it.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
You get it.
You get it Because evenpeople's best intentions, people
who are closest to you, unlessyou've been in that situation,
yeah, you know.
So it really does feel like avery safe space, absolutely.
And so back to the like, themental health aspect of once
you're holding him, it all comesto, you know, comes full circle
(26:03):
, and then you have to go home,yeah, yeah, and pick up the
pieces, like not only physically, but then the mental aspect of
it.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
Absolutely, and it was like you mentioned it was.
It was a peaceful experience, Ithink.
Even just I spent about threeor four days in the hospital,
obviously because I had majorsurgery.
They wanted to make sureeverything was OK, and the
mental aspect of even just thatwas at times really traumatic,
(26:36):
because I had to ask forpermission basically to see or
hold my son to be released fromthe morgue, basically to see or
hold my son to be released fromthe morgue, and I could only be
with him at certain periodsbecause if his body got too warm
they needed to take him back.
It was COVID, so I could onlyhave two named visitors, my
(26:56):
husband being one of them, andthen we collectively had a
conversation and decided to makemy mom the other named visitor.
Thankfully, because my dad ismy pastor, he could come in as
clergy.
So my dad and my mom were ableto come in see him and hold him
and I'm glad at least they gotthat experience.
(27:17):
My family is very close, veryclose.
They were able to hold him.
And even my mom she's like my,all of our kids call her Nana.
My sister has two little boysand she's just the best mother I
mean when I tell you, angel onearth, I that's not even doing
her justice.
She is literal perfection.
(27:38):
And she, I remember, wassitting in the corner and she
was holding him and she was likerocking.
And in the moment I rememberthinking how beautiful that was,
that, even though he couldn'tfeel it for her it was really
healing and she was doing whatfelt natural to her as a
(28:00):
grandmother.
Then, you know, he would have tobe carted back to the morgue
for a little while and then thatfinal goodbye was really hard.
You know, my husband and I justheld him for a little while
longer and we kissed him and umgave him to the nurse, and
(28:23):
leaving the hospitalempty-handed is an experience I
don't wish on anybody.
And at that point I stillcouldn't really walk very well,
and so to be wheeled out and tojust get in the car, and that
was kind of it.
And I remember when I first,when we got back home, my sister
(28:47):
had my two oldest um, just togive us time to get adjusted,
and in the house, and it wasjust so quiet and I hated how
quiet it was.
And so my husband said, well,how about you like get in the
shower?
You take a shower.
And so I did that and I lockedup in the shower.
(29:09):
I had to call for him and hehad to pick me up and carry me
out of the shower because Iphysically could not move Like
my I don't know if it was me andmy brain, my muscles, I don't
know what it was but I just Icouldn't move and I lost it.
(29:30):
And so he picked me up out ofthe shower and he just held me
for a while and that was thefirst time I really cried, that
entire time that I was in thehospital, time that I was in the
hospital and I think, becausethat was reality really hit.
(29:51):
The drugs had worn off, I washome and in this space that we
had prepared for three kids, andto know that that wouldn't be
the case was really hard, and soI spent days in bed.
My family is incredible, like Isaid, my mom she took a full
week off work.
My sister lives here and shewas always helping with my kids.
(30:16):
They were just fantastic and myfamily literally took turns
just coming and laying next tome in bed.
My mom was like you need to eatsomething.
I don't care if it's crackers,like something.
She would run me hot baths andthey would just take turns, just
letting me know that I wasn'talone in this, even though I
(30:37):
felt like I'd never been morealone in my life.
I think it was probably a fullweek before I even saw the
outside again, because I justcouldn't.
I couldn't get out of bed.
I didn't want that reality andthat that was a space where I
didn't have to face it.
I didn't have to face people, Ididn't have to exist,
(30:58):
essentially because I didn'twant to have to exist in this
new reality and so the mentalaspect of it.
There are still a lot of thingsthat I'm trying to figure out.
Mentally I'm much better than Iwas in those early days, but
it's a journey and I think theycall it a journey for a reason,
(31:20):
because you're still trying tonavigate any new feelings or
thoughts that arise yeah, I meanit's.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
I think it's a forever thing that you, that you
sort of manage and sort ofexamine yeah and kind of changes
over time.
But yeah, I can remember toobeing in bed and that would be
the only not the place whereyou'd feel good at all, but like
you could kind of hide and notexist.
(31:48):
And then I can remember after abit was it a couple days or
something and my husband comesup and he's like do you want to
go for a walk?
Kind of like like let's, yougot to keep moving, you got to
get up, yeah.
And do you know something?
Can you remember when youstarted to get that little
whisper, though from yourself,where it's?
Speaker 1 (32:06):
like Jennifer.
Yeah, I, um.
I remember very vividly.
Actually it was Halloween andMiles was born October 11th and
it was trick or treat and we hadjust moved into our new house
and I think that was part of ittoo.
We had just bought a new housein June because we needed more
space.
We were having another kid andso we were in this new
(32:29):
neighborhood and it was thefirst year that we were able
remember taking part in, becauseit reminded me and it prompted
me.
You have these two children.
Yes, you lost Miles, but youstill have to be a mother to
(32:59):
these two children.
They need you children.
They need you, and I remembermy mom and my dad and my family
all telling me that you'realways going to be a mother to
Miles, like if it's something orsomeone that takes up space in
your mind.
Then they existed and they arereal and you are his mother, but
(33:20):
you're also mom to Noah and momto Harper and they need you
just as much, if not more, now.
And so I remember thinking, okay, as much as I'm still
navigating what this looks likeand trying to figure all of this
out, I still have to care formy other two children.
I want to care for my other twochildren and I want to be
(33:42):
present for them.
I don't want to look back andthink that I missed all of these
moments with them because I wastrying to figure out how to
live without Miles.
And you know, I always think offrom the perspective of Miles
too.
If he were looking down,thinking, oh my God, look at my
family, family, like they're soamazing.
(34:04):
And there goes my big brother,my big sister, and my mom's such
a great mom to them, and my dadis an amazing father and
they're creating all thesewonderful memories that someday
we're going to be able to to sitand talk and laugh and share.
And so I always have to thinkof it that way if Miles were
watching, what would he want tosee?
(34:26):
And so I got up out of bed andI didn't look my best, but we
were there, we wenttrick-or-treating and we did.
We had a.
Speaker 2 (34:35):
We had a great moment something tells me your looks
that your worst ain't that bad,honey.
Ain't that bad?
Maybe in my mind so the woman,who's the person who has gone
through that physical journey,yeah, you're going to handle
this different than even yourspouse and it sounds to me from
(34:57):
what you're saying you have avery loving, supportive spouse
who was able to help carry youand be the ebb and flow.
I just also want women to knowout there, if you are feeling
something with not feelingsupported or feeling like
someone is handling thingsdifferently, you know that's,
that's okay.
Speaker 1 (35:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:17):
It's, the grief is very different, for it's
different for a man than it is awoman.
Absolutely it's different forthe person who carried versus
the person who didn't, so alsogive yourself grace there too.
You don't have to be feeling.
Speaker 1 (35:29):
You're not going to feel something exactly the same
as someone else, and from day today, like there were moments
that for us it was clicking andit was great.
And I remember first cominghome and we both said we've got
to be together in this, and thenthere were moments where I was
feeling more than he was feeling, or he was feeling more than I
(35:51):
was feeling, or as a couple wewere just not clicking and it
was because that grief rollercoaster we weren't on the same
ride at that moment.
And that's OK, we've had tofigure it out, we're still
figuring it out.
But for every person, for everycouple, for every family, and
(36:12):
even within every individual,within those units, it's going
to look different day to day,and that's what makes us human
is just trying to figure it outtogether.
Speaker 2 (36:23):
But letting that be, letting it be different, yeah, I
think, is a powerful, it's asuperpower.
So if, if something brings youcomfort, remembering miles, but
it triggers your husband or youknow, somebody may want to put
balloons off.
That's what I love to do forJade and Angel and Hope by the
(36:43):
river.
It's just a thing, you know.
If, if that's a triggeringmoment for someone else, allow
it to be.
Some people can go throughphotos and just want to.
Yeah, some people like, if Isee a photo, it will just put me
over the edge.
So, yeah, I do think with grief, giving grace and allowing for
that, to understand the way yougrieve ain't the way the other
person and it's, it's okay it'sokay, there's nothing wrong with
(37:06):
.
We put too many expectations, Ithink, on the spouse.
Yeah, because they're ourspouse.
Speaker 1 (37:10):
Yeah, but they're just another human being going
through what they're goingthrough yeah, and for a lot of
us, it's it's the first time, orit looks different than it did,
it's it's all different.
Um, and we, our expectationshould be to have no
expectations because we just aretrying to figure this out Amen
(37:30):
to that.
Speaker 2 (37:31):
That's actually.
We need to use that foreverything in life have no
expectations.
You're going to have a lot ofpeace, honey, Exactly so when
did Miles' mission?
When was that the aha moment?
Like we need to do this onbehalf of Miles.
Speaker 1 (37:41):
So we, actually my family I mentioned my parents
and my sister and her husbandand kids.
We're all very close and wewere coming up on Miles' first
birthday.
I knew I wanted to do something, I just didn't know what.
But I knew I didn't want to bein town.
I knew I didn't want to be atwork or around too many people,
(38:05):
because I just needed an escape.
And so we booked a trip and, asan extended family, we went to
Florida and so we're staying inthis big condo.
My dad, this whole time was onhis laptop and I'm like, what is
he doing?
Like he's on vacation.
He shouldn't be working onsermons or you know whatever.
He's a very active and involvedman, so he sits on a lot of
(38:27):
boards and things like that.
But I'm like, dad, like we'reon vacation, what are you doing?
And he said I'm writing a book.
And I said, oh, okay.
And so he actually wrote a bookcalled Even Now I Know, and it
is all about that journey oflosing miles, figuring it out as
(38:49):
a family, some of his and mymom's own personal experiences
with grief that I didn't evenknow about because they were
sheltering me as their daughter.
And so he wrote this book,released this book, and then,
shortly after that, we sat downand had kind of like a family
meeting and he was the one whosaid we need to do something,
(39:14):
because he said, you know,writing this book and talking
with so many people, this is somuch bigger and there are so
many more people experiencingloss like this than we ever
really knew, because nobodytalks about it.
And so he was the one that saidthere's a mission for Miles and
(39:36):
there's a legacy and we need todo something.
And so my dad is the presidentof Miles's mission, I'm the vice
president and matriarch, my momis the treasurer, my sister is
the secretary, and we are anestablished nonprofit that just
works to raise awareness butalso to provide support for
(40:01):
people who are just figuringthis out.
At any stage whether it was amiscarriage, a stillbirth, an
infant loss decades ago itdoesn't matter.
If you're experiencing grief,we want to help you and we want
to make changes legislativelywhen it comes to bereavement
(40:22):
support, because I learned afterthe fact that there were a lot
of things in the hospital that Ididn't get that I could have
gotten, and I don't want anybodyelse who's experiencing this to
feel less than or to feel liketheir loss is overlooked or that
it doesn't matter enough, andso that's what we've been
(40:43):
working since 2023 to do.
Speaker 2 (40:46):
That's amazing.
Thank you, it's really amazing.
Thank you and I love yoursweatshirt.
Speaker 1 (40:50):
Yeah, so this is our logo.
My coworker, actually Rob, isan incredible graphic artist and
created the logo for us, andthis is Miles's hand.
We got some photos taken beforewe left the hospital and there
was this one photo where he washolding this heart shaped pillow
(41:10):
and you just saw his littlefingers, and so how do I get one
of those?
I think I have an in for you.
Speaker 2 (41:17):
OK, do you think you can hook me up with that?
For sure, OK amazing, but isthere anything else about that
experience?
Speaker 1 (41:24):
Miles' mission, anything else you want to make
sure that we yeah, I just wantto highlight the fact that I
mentioned when I was in thehospital that there were a lot
of things I didn't get, and Ididn't know that I didn't get
them until after the fact.
But you know, I'm not going tocall it the hospital system
because I don't think it's theirfault.
(41:44):
I think when you have such ataboo topic and there are a lot
of people advocating or pushingfor, they're only doing what
they know to do.
And so you know, having lost achild but then having to be
wheeled around on a maternityfloor and recovering from a
c-section while I'm listening toother babies cry in their
(42:07):
mother's room and you know I hadjust this symbol placed on my
door, that it was a symbol thatthey used to indicate that
you've lost, it's a, it's amother of loss, and I actually
got it tattooed on my wristbecause it stuck with me.
But so, like the nurse wouldlook at this symbol and know,
like when I enter this room shedoesn't have a baby, like she's
(42:29):
the only mother on this floorthat doesn't have a baby in this
room, and so I just felt liketortured almost for three or
four days, just listening tobabies cry and happy families,
and that wasn't the case for me.
And then you know miles beingwheeled back and forth to the
morgue.
We found out that there areseveral hospitals in the state
(42:51):
of Ohio, even here in centralOhio, that have cuddle cots, and
they are these bassinets,essentially, that are just
cooling mechanisms so that theyplace these cuddle cots in the
hospital room and the baby canstay in the room with you for
the entirety of your stay.
I didn't get that, and I was atone of the largest hospital
(43:11):
systems in the state and nobodybrought this up to me and I
didn't even know it was a thing.
And then I found out.
Had I gone to another hospitalI would have had access to that,
so I could have had Miles withme the entire time.
And so we have been workingwith Miles's Mission and some
partner agencies, with CuddleCot directly, to make sure that
(43:32):
every hospital system has atleast one, if not more, and
we've seen a lot of greatprogress there.
But, like I said, with thestandardization too, I shouldn't
have had to stay on a maternityfloor.
That's insanity to me.
Looking back, I'm like you knowthat, I think, hindered a lot
of my healing mentally, and sowe want to create this rule book
(43:52):
, essentially for hospitals tosay if you have several women or
families experiencing loss,this is what you should be doing
and you can't say yes or no, ormaybe because it's a
legislative standard.
So that's what we're reallypushing for, good for you.
Speaker 2 (44:11):
Thank you, that is just badass.
It really is.
And it just reminds me, ifyou're listening to this and
you're someone, or you knowsomeone, who feels a little
stuck in their grief, where theyare in this spin cycle, they
don't know what to do with it.
Plug into something, yeah, andmaybe reach out.
(44:31):
I mean, I'm all about the.
DM the email.
Reach out to Jennifer.
You know you can take the awfulfeelings and the things that
you're kind of stuck with.
There actually is joy there.
There is.
You have to tap into it andmaybe you're not ready, maybe
it's not time yet, but for thatone person out there who needs
to hear that you know there'ssomething you can plug in to get
(44:55):
that energy flow.
Speaker 1 (44:56):
Absolutely.
And I promise you like justreach out and even if we have
like a five minute chat, yeah,exactly yeah, there's something,
there's a space for everyone,especially if you've experienced
, or you've been close tosomeone who has experienced, a
loss.
Our biggest thing is almostlike creating this army.
(45:17):
Like we, there's strength innumbers for a reason, and the
more people who join this causeand say, yeah, this, it
shouldn't be this way, why hasit been this way for this long?
It's 2025.
Like, why are we just nowsaying, oh, I guess loss is a
problem and you know, we're nottrying to say that we're going
(45:41):
to make it go away.
Death is a part of life and Iknow that not everything is
preventable.
But there are people who areliving and existing right now,
who are experiencing theselosses and I could have been
another loss.
You know, after losing Miles, Ididn't want to live anymore and
without the support of myfamily, I can't say that I would
(46:06):
be sitting here with you rightnow, honestly, because I can't
imagine having to enduresomething like that on my own.
I really can't, and I know thatthere are people who have and
who will, and that just breaksmy heart.
And so I I want to be connected.
We have to be connected, wehave to be support system for
(46:31):
each other.
You need as many people aspossible on your side, because
this is this is a journey nobodyshould have to walk.
Speaker 2 (46:38):
No and raise your hand.
Your mental health iseverything.
And again you are not alone.
Hand your mental health iseverything.
And again, you are not alone.
Yeah, and we are in this cluband we have real big shoulders,
yeah, and big hearts so you knowyeah but, jennifer, thank you
so much for coming up on an hourI could talk to you for I
talked to you for days, truly, Iknow, I could as well I really,
(46:59):
really appreciate it.
I feel like I just had like avery cathartic, good uh therapy
session good, that's what itshould be.
Speaker 1 (47:05):
We should be able to just openly talk about this.
Speaker 2 (47:07):
Absolutely.
And again, please reach out ifyou, if you want to talk, if you
have someone that you know,please send this to them.
Carrie, at the Carrie Croftshow dot com, send me a DM.
You can send Jennifer a DM.
We are here and I know we canadd some value, right, yes,
absolutely, and if you're stillout there following your girl,
follow me on YouTube, spotify,apple or wherever you get your
(47:28):
podcasts.
And until next time, keepmoving, baby.
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