La Forêt Blanche: Building a Kosher Wine Brand Part 1

Episode Transcript
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S. Simon Jacob (00:09):
Welcome to The Kosher Terroir.
I'm Simon Jacob, your host forthis episode from Jerusalem.
Before we get started, I askthat, wherever you are, please
take a moment and pray for thesafety of our soldiers and the
safe return of all of ourhostages.
Welcome back to The KosherTerroir, the podcast where we

(00:33):
uncork the stories behind theworld's finest kosher wines, one
bottle at a time.
Today, we're taking you deepinto the heart of Israel's
historic wine country, whereancient tradition meets modern
craftsmanship.
Nestled in the breathtakinglandscapes of the Yatir Forest
and the Hebron Heights, La ForêtBlanche Winery has been making

(00:57):
waves in the Israeli wine scenewith its bold vision, meticulous
winemaking and deep-rootedconnection to the land.
Joining me for this specialtwo-part conversation is none
other than Yaacov Bris, CEO ofLa Forêt Blanche.
With a background in e-commerceand a passion for wine that
runs deep, yaakov has played apivotal role in rebranding and

(01:22):
expanding the winery, turning itinto a rising star in the world
of fine kosher wines.
In Part 1, we'll exploreYaacov's journey into the wine
industry, the story behind thewinery's evocative name and how
La Forêt Blanche balances itsrich biblical heritage with
cutting-edge winemakingtechniques.

(01:42):
We'll also dive into thesignificance of their terroir
and what makes their wines standout in an increasingly
competitive market.
If you're driving, focus on theroad ahead.
If you're home, pour yourself aglass of wonderful kosher wine,
sit back and get ready todiscover the essence of La Forêt

(02:04):
Blanche, where history, passionand innovation converge in
every bottle.
Yaakov, welcome to The KosherTerroir.
Thank you for welcoming me tothe winery.
It's called La Forêt Blanche.
La Forêt Blanche, la.

Yaacov Bris (02:19):
Forêt Blanche, la Forêt Blanche, it's basically
the white forest.
La Forêt Blanche, la ForêtBlanche, it's basically the
white forest.
We're going to speak about thename maybe later in the tour.
Great, although it's the firstthing you see when you come at
the winery in La Forêt Blanchewith this beautiful logo and you
see the barrels.
Basically, it took us, I think,eight months of brainstorming

(02:43):
and meetings.
Now, if you can imagine MenachemLivni, which is like over 70.
Yep, okay, a true Bet HaMikdash, believer, yeah, not believer.
We all believe in the buildingof the Bet HaMikdash, but he's

(03:04):
actually, he's ready to do it.
He's ready to do it right, 100%.
I knew of Menachem back in theold days Great.
So can you imagine Menachemsitting at a table with Bruno, a
winemaker, french native,french educated culture, the
whole and coming like in Israel,35, 40 years ago, 35 years ago,

(03:27):
sitting around the table?
Now, he of course like Bruno's,like religious and, but his
beliefs are not that way.
Yeah, okay.
And the young guy like me thatunderstands nothing about that.
All he wants to do?
It was to build a.
All he wants to do is to builda brand.
Then he wants to be recognizedworldwide once he tells the

(03:48):
story.
It's like the three completeopposite directions and each one
wants the whole decision-makingprocess going his way.
And I'm like the first thing Idid when I came into uh the
company in 2018 was to say, heyguys, we need to brand uh.

(04:12):
We can't just go around andgrow this uh winery to be very
big if we're not going to brandit.
Give it a story, not just likea family name is very nice, so
you, you can't brand it as aterroir winery or like specific,
if you're not going into abroader story about the area.

(04:33):
And my idea was to give it aFrench name, like not to hide
our identity of the local.
You know geopolitics orwhatever.
It wasn't the purpose.
It was just to be authentic, tobe as authentic as possible,
and we knew we wanted to have todo with Yatir Forest because
we're right next to Yatir Forest.
The winery was going to movehere.

(04:54):
It was all planned, thebuilding was existing already.
Now anything about Yatir Forestis copyrighted, not the forest,
not the Yatir Forest.
Everything is copyrighted.
Not the forest, not the Yatirforest.
Everything is copyrighted, allthe Yishuvim names.
Everything is copyrighted byKarma, mizrahi and Yatir.
You can't call it anything,anything.
You can't use the name Yatir.

(05:14):
Now we knew we wanted to have todo with the forest.
So I said let's go to French.
You know wine and French seemsto be very good.
We're French.
Our audience is not going to benecessarily exclusively French,
but even Americans wouldidentify to the French.
At that time there was all kindsof wineries coming out with

(05:39):
French names without mentioninganyone French name, without
mentioning anyone, you know.
So we said like, it's possible,it's accepted, people are
relating to it Like nobody's,like, rejecting the idea.
So we wanted to have to do withthe forest, which is La Forêt,
the forest.
But we wanted to add anadjective because it was too

(06:00):
like.
La Forêt is just like too likethere's no, you know, there's
nothing authentic that you canexplain, no, there's nothing
that it ties to Right.
Like it could be this forest orit could be that forest, like
you know, there's no specificattachment to it.
And like and we're debating anddebating and voting and inviting
people, and it became like awhole list of names and we're,

(06:23):
every two weeks we have meetingsand phone calls and Zoom calls,
you know, menachem, bruno, me,annie, selby, and then we
brought in people andjournalists and people in
different industries, like werelated and this thing is going
like, and at some point we said,okay, enough is enough.

(06:44):
We need to decide today becausewe need to go live, we need to
start selling the wine.
So we're sitting at a table, um, and I can bruno, me, annie,
whatever, voting.
Each one voted and blanche waspart of the part of the
possibilities.
There was other other, therewere other names.
Blanche, at this point of thediscussion, had absolutely

(07:05):
nothing to do.
No story, no, it's just likenice, you know?
Yeah, nothing more.
Menachem Livni stands up and hesaid guys, I'm fed up with you,
I'm done.
Give it any name you want, Ihave nothing to do with this
thing.
You know, wine is so holy.

(07:26):
It's something you bring to theBeit HaMikdash, it's like it
represents holiness in theJewish tradition Kiddush Chagim,
Brit, milah, like wedding,everything is all about the wine
.
And you're taking this to like,to this, uh, to this, uh, um,
um, crazy level, crazy level,and and.

(07:49):
But he said like, uh, uh.
French for him is like uh, nota dirt, uh, to my eyes, like uh,
um, it's like tumor.
And you're taking impurity inpure language.
It's like impure, it's likeit's not, like it doesn't
represent anything.
He said, guys, okay, I'm goingto the restroom and I'm out of
here.
He's going to the restroom,he's coming back and he says,

(08:13):
like you know, the BeitHaMikdash was called in the
Melachim, yar Levannon.
And even at Beit Yar Levannonyou say like, well, this is like
name and it has a meaning, theBeit HaMikdash.
And you're going to this impurelanguage, like what is.

(08:33):
And I said to him, what did youjust say?
The Beit HaMikdash was calledYahr Levanon, so exactly.
And I said to him oh, we got it.
La Forêt Blanche is Yara,lebanon, lebanon, milachon, la
Vange and Balbin, avonotem Shal,yisrael, yara, la Forêt, la
Forêt Blanche, we got it, that'sit.

(08:53):
And he's like holy Moses, wehave a name, yeah that's the way
great, that's the way we roll.

I was wondering how.
The only confusion I had withit and when people initially
hear the name, they always thinkof it as being white wines
Right, because it's white, yeah,but that said, I love the name,
I think it's great, I love thebranding, I like Annie's work

(09:23):
and I love the style of it andit's just beautiful.

So she was part of all the discussion and that's
how I think the first option ofthe logo was the logo that we
picked.
She basically nailed it becauseour terroir is about David
HaMelech.
David Amalek was king of Hebronseven years before he became
king of Israel.
He planted vineyards.
It's even said that he plannedthe architecture of the Beit

(09:51):
HaMikdash.
He architectured the BeitHaMikdash.
He went and bought Harabite,purchased it and he started
planning.
It's even said that if DavidAmelech would have built the
Beit HaMikdash, it would havebeen never destroyed.
But he actually doesn't get tobuild it.
But you can see throughTehillim.
He speaks about wine, he speaksabout Beit HaMikdash and he

(10:12):
planted a lot of vines.
Now, Shlomo HaMelech, when hebuilt the first Beit HaMikdash,
needed wine and he basically thewines the v that were planted
by David HaMelech in Hebron wereused to produce the wine that
was brought to the BeitHaMikdash.
And you have psukim that say,like you know, shea v'zichro,
keyein, halevanon, the wine ofLevanon that was going to the

(10:33):
Beit HaMikdash.
Everywhere in the Tanakh whereyou say, levanon is about the
Beit HaMikdash.
So that's the relationship ofthe logo to David HaMelech,
david's harp.
Now it's fascinating evenfurther because where the wine
was used in the Bet HaMikdashwas exactly at the same time of

(10:53):
the Levite singing.
Mishnah said that you can'tpour the wine without the Leviim
and you can't have the Leviimsinging without pouring the wine
.
It goes together.

I didn't realize it's David's harp's harp, but
that's beautiful david's harpmusical notes.

yes, okay, that's, that represents the shirama, a
lot like the, the 15, like youknow, the levite singing well,
letters, lfb and the vine thatthe trees in the forest, like
this is the representation, uh,the whole representation of the,
of the logo.
So so after we decided thatthat would be the name, we had
to have wines that tell thestory.

(11:32):
We can't just have winesbecause we have grapes and then
we make any wine and then wemake up stories about terroirs
and different things, and thenit goes on we have that grape,
so we make that wine.
We have to have a flow, make upstories about terroirs and
different things, and then it,you know, it goes on.
We have that grape, so we makethat wine.
We have to have a flow and, uh,and the names of the wine have
to have to tell that story.

(11:53):
And that's how I went on andthat this is like my work.
Um, later in the process ofgiving the names to the, because
everybody was already tired andsaid like, if we had for one
name, we had like six to eightmonth discussions then what it's
going to be to have like six orseven wines to name.
Just figure it out.
Yes, okay, it's crazy, I get it.

(12:15):
And and then we said that wewould have.
We would have names, hebrewnames, yeah that, speak about
the Bet HaMikdash, but fromdifferent perspectives.

What motivated the switch to?

make such a career shift?
Oh, wow.
Well, I started working for aUS-based company, new York-based
company, in 2009.
I was a student in Brooklynback then, so I stayed over on
vacation because I didn't wantto go back home in France doing

(12:54):
nothing and waste my time.
So I wanted to start working.
So I stayed for vacation and Istarted looking for a job and I
found a job in one of theseAmazon eBay companies back then
in 2009.
It was like the Gold Rush.
Like Gold Rush, everybody wasrunning it.
The whole Brooklyn was aboutAmazon and eBay.

(13:17):
And they have, like these threepartners in Brooklyn and they're
running a huge, huge Amazonbusiness, three different
accounts like something huge inlike electronics, audio
accessories and I'm therepreparing orders, printing
labels, cleaning up thewarehouse, like doing summer job

(13:38):
.
And I'm telling them you know,like they figured that I speak
French and he said to me what doyou think about?
I started, like you know,getting around, knowing orders,
process websites, like different.
You know, you start to getaround.
And they said to me what do youthink about Amazon France?
I said, yeah, okay, soundsgreat, okay, so what do you

(13:59):
think about taking our catalogand introducing it to Europe?
So I said, no problem, give mefiles, excels, and I'll sit down
and I'll translate everything.
I'll create a catalog.
And that's how it started, froma summer job to running the
company, actually, because thenthey parted ways like three

(14:20):
partners and I stayed with oneof them.
We opened our own company andwe basically developed our own
brands and it became very big,to a point that we're selling
product to 25 differentcountries, mostly Europe, asia,
even the Far East, like Vietnam,thailand, new Zealand,

(14:43):
australia.
I even opened up an office inSingapore at one point with a
guy there doing some antenna.
I had a guy in Singaporedeveloping the sales for me and,
cutting the story short, then Imoved to Israel.
All this was through the shift.

(15:06):
I knew my wife in one of myFrench vacations and she lived
in Israel.
She was in France to studyJewish studies in a midrashah
near Paris and she said to mewell, if you want to marry, come
to Israel, because I'm notplanning to go anywhere else.

(15:26):
Good girl.
If you want to stay there, justfind someone else.
I'm good with it, but if youwant to continue to develop the
relationship, you should come.
If not, it's not going to work.
So I said, okay, I'm packing mybags, I'm coming to Israel
knowing nothing.
I had a job, that's all I had.
I knew pretty much nobody.

(15:46):
My parents lived in France.
On my brothers, everyone like,uh, I have grandparents and
uncles, uh, uh, living inBrebrock and uh, you know so, uh
, um, I mean, I was, uh, youknow, in very good relationships
, but it's not really um, youcan't just land there and live
there.

(16:08):
So we got married and I said,okay, I'm going to get married
and after a year I'll go back tothe States, we're going to be
married and everything's goingto be fine.
I'm going to have a job, I havemy friends, I have everything.
And then she said to me, aftera year, you know, like, going
back to the States, you know,marriage it's not just like
being uh single, you knowexpenses, whatever.

(16:29):
And I started to talk tofriends.
I said, yeah, she's right, like, be careful.
And then we said, okay, uh, andthen we discovered this, this
area by you know, uh, she has anuncle, uh lives, uh, around
here.
So we went to him and Idiscovered this place.
You know, as a french grownstandard jewish guy, in france
we don't really know what theshtakhim are like.

(16:51):
You know the ityashvut and thetzionut, like wasn't something
very, very uh, of our firstimportance where I grew up, in
the education that I received.
So I thought it was people likeyou know, doing barefoot, like
growing sheep and uh, you know,like uh, not very uh, you know,
well developed.
And I came here and I alwayssay, oh, wow, these are nice

(17:11):
people, they're happy, they'reactually smiling.
Can it be such a thing inisrael, like people are happy to
live and they're just it'ssmiling to you and nice to you,
and they take, they walk slowlyand they don't honk in like
every Every two meters is likeso quiet here, so peaceful.

(17:33):
I said to my wife okay, if youwant to stay in Israel, this is
the place I'm staying here.
The view reminded me of, youknow, the Alps.
Like the quietness, like quiet.
I didn't worry too much aboutthe insecurity because for me,
whatever it doesn't, you knowthere's bombs here.
There's bombs there whatever.
So if you have to die thenyou'll die anyway.

(17:54):
You can't run away from it.
So we moved to the Gush Etzionarea I had, and then I moved my
office to a frat like they had,like a technological hub.
I had workers from Jerusalemcoming in, whatever.
So we had this office.
At the same time my olderbrother wanted to make a liya

(18:14):
and I introduced him to Bruno,which is a good friend of my
wife's uncle, and I tasted hiswines and I said, wow, these are
beautiful wines.
Like I couldn't drink wine whenI came to Israel, like every
wine that I was tasting wassyrupy.
I'm going to tell you the exactterm, because my wine education

(18:37):
I got it from my grandfather.
My grandfather is Rabbi Gardner,an American.
He was born in Tampa, florida.
He grew up in Boston, hestudied in Boston, then he moved
to France.
He married a French girl fromAlsace and he developed.
He was the one to develop thecachereut of wine in France.

(19:02):
I'm talking about 40 years ago.
The eldest vintage that I foundthat my grandfather made was a
1980 Bordeaux, whatever.
You know Pierre Miodovnik fromNetofa.
So my grandfather made Chidurto his second marriage and every
time I meet Pierre he's tellingme that he's making wine thanks

(19:23):
to my grandfather.
And then he has a whole storyabout the Guernic that he had to
find back then and he couldn'tmake the.
He had to get the grape thesame day and my grandfather
helped him with the Guernic toco-shorize the tank and that's
the way he got his first harvestback then.
We're very, very close.
So he makes this wine andactually the Koenig winery,

(19:46):
famous König winery heco-shorized it the first.
He was the first one to makelike co-shorized.
He worked with Rabbi Zeckbach.
He made the wines for RabbiDoroth, what we call the Roof
friends, rabbi Rottenberg, youknow so.
And then when the competitiongrew, they started making grape
juice, like a very, very famousgrape juice.
They said this is the onlygrape juice that you can make.

(20:11):
Actually, I go for it on itwhatever.
And then they sold the brand.
But as a kid, 10, 11 years old,he used to take a group of
grandchildren, we used to be awhole group of cousins and we
used to go to the winery southof France, in Pays d'Oc, near
Perpignan and Montpellier.
That's where Pierre was from.

(20:31):
Yeah, exactly this is where hestarted.
And we used to go to wineries,harvest and pressings and
process barrels, bottling, likeyou know, every time.
So we did the whole process andactually the most fascinating
part was the tasting.
And my grandmother used to comeand she's very, very good.
She has like a very, very…Amazing palate, amazing.

(20:54):
So she used to heart you withthe winemakers and she has like
this thing.
She said a wine that I can'tdrink, it's a wine that I can't
sell, that's the way.
And then they used to argue toa point that this is what she
said.
And then they had to agree withher because they had nothing to
say.
And he said I can't drink it.

(21:15):
So take the whole vat, like 50hectoliters, and just dump it,
because I can't drink that wine,whatever.
That's the level.
So we used drink that wine,whatever.
That's the level.
Wow.
So like we used to drink wine.
Like you know, I'm 11 years oldand drink wine on Shabbat and
this is, you know, this is sincewhere I remember myself

(21:36):
drinking wines All kinds.
Like you know, my favorite onesare like Côte du Rhone, because
we're in the Rhone area, youknow.
So this is what I grew up on.
Côote du Rhone, because we'rein the Rhone area, you know.
So this is what I grew up onCote du Rhone GSM this is my
favorite wines and I came toIsrael and I couldn't drink

(21:57):
anything.
And then I said, like I used tofind these bottles expensive
bottles for me with like 80shekels, even if I went out of
my league 100 shekels for abottle, like crazy, like a
fortune for me to spend on abottle.
And then I used to bring thesebottles for Shabbat to my
grandfather and say, oh, I foundthis great bottle, a hundred
shekel bottle, and without I'mnot going to say any brands or

(22:19):
whatever, it's irrelevant.
It tastes like my grandfatheris like a Merlot guy, like a
Bordeaux Right, bank Right.
This is where he started beforemoving to Pays d'Oc.
He opens up the bottle and saysoh, jakob, your wine is burnt.

(22:43):
I said what do you mean burnt?
You can't burn a wine.
He said no, do you mean burnt?
You can't burn a wine.
He said no, it's burnt.
Taste it, it's burnt.
I tasted it.
And then the fact that Iunderstood what he meant is like
too much wood and it's almostlike a saraf.

Yeah, To say burnt, but it's actually thick.
It's too much.

Yeah, it's too much , and so then I gave up.
It's like I gave up.
I gave up until, like, at onepoint that I heard, you know,
greg Verchurch, like today'svery, very famous.
So he had a podcast with DanielRogoff.
It was a very long time ago andit tasted like Israeli wines.

(23:27):
And he's tasting this bottle ofPinamina Jogev Back then, like
I think it was a Capitiver.
The red label, yeah, yeah, Iknow which one you?
mean, and he said this is agreat, great, great wine.
So I went to the super sale itwas like 30 shekels and I tasted
the wine and it's amazing.

(23:48):
So I'm going to every supersale and it's just emptying out
shelves and drinking bottles athome.
And this is what I was drinking, like how you'll get red, and
then I think they had a changeof varietals or blend and it's
like I don't know.
Then I discovered other wines,of course, and then I met Bruno
the winemaker, in 2012, whendiscovering the area, 2012, when

(24:11):
discovering the area, and therewas like a bar mitzvah or some
kind of event where my uncle wasand he was invited also.
So he brought bottles and Itasted this wine and I was like
what this wine is?
It's crazy, I never tastedsomething in Israel.
And then he said, yeah, I havea winery.
So then I came to the winery,driving from Gush Etzion to the

(24:32):
winery you know, driving fromGouchet-Sillon to the winery and
showing the winery I can pickup cases, whatever and then they
were just bottling.
So I came to pick up bottlesbut I ended up working like the
whole day bottling.
I don't remember which vintageit was.
I think it was 2011, vintage orsomething like that.
They were bottling it was here.
It like that.
They were bottling it was here.
It was here.
It was in Carmel.
Okay, it was in Carmel.

(24:53):
In Carmel, right, it was likein a sort of a shed, like it
wasn't even a shed, it was likea container, and then there was
a shed next to it with aconcrete plate.

So what was it called?
It was called Livni, it was.
This was the Livni OriginalBottles of.

Livni, I still have some bottles, I'll show you
after that.
And then I said okay, when youneed me next time, just call me.
He said yeah, no problem, we'remaking blends.
Like two weeks from now we'retasting barrels, just come.
And then I started to come veryoften at the winery and tell

(25:31):
them from my own experience,after tasting a lot of wines and
starting to know what themarket wants, etc.
I'm talking like over 10 yearsago.
The market has very, very muchchanged, but I knew wine.
I knew like wine from aconsuming perspective, you know
yeah.

That's the most important perspective, yeah.

And then I tell them like, why don't you do this
, why don't you do that and whydon't you do this?
But do it this way, not thisway.
And the label?
And why don't you say this?
But you can't write this on thelabel?
And I started driving them crazyfor six years until Menachem
Livni's wife passed away in 2015.
And in 2016, he wanted to sellout the winery and he sold the

(26:13):
whole production to one.
He didn't, he didn't havepatience.
Uh, yeah, you know, it was very, very, uh, um, um busy, uh, you
know, mentally uh, with, uh,with the loss of his wife.
Uh, he was devastated, like youknow, yeah, so he wanted to get
rid of the winery.

(26:33):
He said he lost purpose and atsome point they told me okay,
take the winery, do what you gotto do, do it your way and wish
you great success.
Bruno's coming in as a partner.
He said I'm only coming in as apartner if you're coming with
me, because I don't knowanything about selling the wine.

(26:54):
I can make wine, but I can'tsell it, and I need someone that
can sell the wine to tell mewhat to do.
So that's the way we gottogether and it was a point in
my job.
To answer your question how didI did that whole switch?
Did that whole switch?

(27:17):
It was to a point that I had todecide, like, if I'm continuing
in the company or if I'mstopping.
We had some issues, like somerunning issues, and at some
point I take up, I stand up andI take the decision just to
leave that company.
And I said I want to focus onsomething with a purpose,
something in Israel, somethingthat, something that's going to
help others and some.
You know, wine was always a verybig, passionate thing.

(27:42):
You know, not just a drink.
It's like when you see yourgrandfather, like at 50 years
old or 60 years old, likerunning up and as a kid I had a
hard time running after him likegoing up like the ladders of
like a 50 or 60 hectoliters ofvats, which is like huge silos,

(28:02):
gigantic, and you just go aroundand then you have to go in and
cauterize it and then you seeyour product at the end and
you're so satisfied with it.
This is what's so passionateabout it and you learn about
different tastes, whatever.
So it's not just about thedrink and the taste.
And this is how I decided justto switch completely and I said,

(28:23):
okay, guys, I'm doing thebusiness development projects.
I didn't even charge anything,it was just to cover my expenses
, like car.
And I said, guys, I'm takingthis project and let's do
something with it.
We're going to find investors,we're going to rebrand.
My dream was to use all mymarketing skills that I've

(28:44):
learned over the years withselling stuff over the internet
branding and I said, okay, wow,this is like the next level,
because wine it's not about whatyou see you can't even describe
it like.
It's something you can't sellif you don't taste it.
So this is like anotherchallenge, like you have to
create a great brand.

You can't get a taste or smell over the internet
, right?

so it would be nice if they could, but right not
yet so so my conclusion was thatyou have to cause the consumer
such emotions that he's going tosay, okay, I must taste this
thing.
And it's without even talkingabout taste.
Because taste it's like untilyou taste it you can tell any

(29:28):
story you want, until you tasteit, your taste is not my taste.
So I could tell you raspberriesand blackberries and anything,
but you're, until you taste it,your taste is not my taste.
So I could tell you raspberriesand blackberries and and
anything but you're going totaste it.
You can say your wine is burnt,you know, or not burnt, or
whatever, but it's your taste.
I get my taste.
So it's not the way you sell.
So I said, okay, this is a oneheck of a challenge that I must

(29:48):
uh, that I must uh have on my.
I must experience this and Imust succeed.
And you know, I want to startfrom scratch and I want to be
successful.
And this is how I took thisproject on.
My wife said like you'recompletely crazy, you're leaving
a job and you're successful,and, and, and you have a partner
.
Like, what are you doing?

(30:10):
It's like no, you don't.
I'm doing this, I'm doing this,I'm doing this and I'm going to
be successful, and it's justfor my passion.
I need it for my Nishama.
It's like this is my destiny.

You had a vision when you came on board.
How has the vision changed overthe years since 2018, when you
first became the CEO?
Has it changed, or have youjust been.

I have the same vision.
It's just becoming a realitythe way I envisioned it.
Nobody believed in it.
Everybody thought I was crazy,nobody believed that I would be
successful, but I was so excitedand so passionate about it that

(30:55):
it actually convinced peopleand I said, okay, try it.
And then we have this projectthat we're going to sell wine
online.
And I said, okay, I have to dosomething with the pricing.
And I was doing theseKickstarter campaigns back then,
selling watches and sellingjewelry, like doing these
Kickstarter campaigns.
You know, like back then, youhad this in 2014.
Pebble, pebble.

(31:16):
But before that, yeah, evenbefore that, I was all over the
Daniel Wellington project, youknow.
The watches, yes, so we madeactually a different project
that way.
But, like in cutting the middleguy, whatever this whole
concept, and I thought it was sogreat.
And I said, like I've startedto this whole concept and I
thought it was so great.
And I said I've started tolearn this whole concept and the
way.

(31:37):
You know, it's not just the wayit looks.
There's a lot of stuff going onbehind these campaigns, you know
it's not just the way it looks,and the guy sold like 2 million
watches.
It doesn't really work that way.
But anyway, I started to learnthe whole business and I said I
have to do this with wine inIsrael.
Cut the prices.
Everybody has a problem withthe wine prices.
And okay, if I'm going to sellit direct, why would I put the

(32:02):
money the 30% of the store price, why would I put it in my
pocket?
So I started off this wholewinery.
I said, okay, guys, I don'tneed 30%, I'm going to sell a
lot of wine, I don't have storesto pay, I don't have stores to
pay, I don't have anybody to pay, and I'm going to sell the wine
direct.
So I could reduce 30% and stillmake a great profit.
And so just grow the businessand actually have a greater and

(32:26):
faster penetration with my brandand be successful.
And then we're going to seelater, later, and be successful.
And then we're going to seelater, later, we're going to
have to go into stores.
Because that's the way it worksOnce you become a brand, people
ask for it.
It actually happened a lotearlier than we anticipated.
Stores started calling me Jakob, we need your wine, we need
your wine, we need your wine, laFreya.
Everybody's asking in my store.
There are stores in Petr Ticvain Tel Aviv.

(32:47):
Then, natalia, everybody'scalling me and you know I can't
even recall the amount of storesthat called me.
Some stores insulted me.
They're like you're crazy,you're going to need us and then
when you're going to need us,we won't take you in, et cetera.

(33:08):
And I said no, I'm not doingstores.
And then distributors startedcontacting me One distributor,
the other distributor, I couldtake you in this store, I could
take you this, I could do thator whatever.
And so I said no.
And then at some point onedistributor really convinced me,
was really excited about thebrand and I was the only Israeli

(33:32):
winery on his portfolio, so I'mnot sharing his work with other
Israeli wineries and he wasvery convinced about the way it
would be and I said, okay, thisis the way I want to work.
And he looked for an Israelikosher winery for all his
customers that were asking himand he couldn't find a winery

(33:54):
that would suit his vision ofhis business and the vision of
the winery.
So it's very it's a very, verydifficult segment right to deal
with distributors and to dealwith stores.
If you deal directly withstores.
It's a different segment.
If you deal with distributors,it's very difficult because
everybody's trying to convinceand everybody's like, uh,

(34:14):
charging you and this and thatpromising you and then not
successful, then it kills yourbrand and I said I'm not
prepared to do this to kill mybrand.
So we went with him and justit's.

The israeli wine business is incredibly highly,
um, competitive.
So like what strategies?
I mean, you discussed some ofthe strategies just now as to
how you focused on direct andthen with one focus distributor,
rather than trying to market itto everybody.

(34:48):
But is there a specificstrategy that you had to make
yours kind of leap above?
There's so many israeli brandsnow there's, there's literally
hundreds of new wineries all thetime, right?
So so my strategy how did youdifferentiate yourself, right?

Right, right, right , right.
So that was my craziest questionand I think it's everybody's
question what's?
I mean?
It's one of the questions thatwe ask ourselves, like why are
we so special and why are we sodifferent?
So we have a cab, they have acab, he has a cab, and this one
is good, this one is okay, buteverybody's going to buy it and

(35:32):
and everybody's going to tasteit, whatever.
So why our bottle over someoneelse?
And the answer to that was thestory Story of the area and
authenticity.
That was my key word all alongand I'm still believing it.

(35:53):
Don't BS anyone.
Don't BS anyone.
Don't BS anyone.
Be authentic, even if it's bad.
Be authentic.
Tell it the way it is, whereyou are.
Don't try to hide and stick toit.
A lot of people try to take meout Like it's not good, the

(36:16):
brand, the French and the labelis too white and this is too.
No, I believe that this isauthentic to the brand, stick to
it and it worked.
It worked Even in the States.
Okay, when we started workingwith Red Garden in 2020.
They had a great relationshipwith Menachem because they were

(36:39):
taking part of his wines and Icontacted them and said, okay,
hi, we have this new brand now.
Menachem Livni is like this newbrand, oh, it's never going to
work.
I said to him okay, you like,livni is like this new brand.
Oh, it's never going to work.
It's like I said to him okay,you like Livni's wines?
These are the same wines withdifferent label, so you can sell

(37:00):
it as a continuation.
You know, try it.
You know it's never going towork.
Like you know, you should havecalled it this.
You should have go like thatand make the shorter, make it
this, make it that.
Okay, this is the brand, try it.
Okay, send me a pallet, puttogether a pallet, sent it to
them Two months later.

(37:20):
Yakov, can you send meeverything you have at the
winery?
We're out of wine andeverybody's getting crazy about
these bottles and that's the wayit works.
And since then we're trying tocatch the demand that we have in
the US.
I'm going every year to theStates, I'm going on a road show
, I'm talking to customers, I'mmaking these tastings and I'm

(37:44):
doing it for three, four yearsCOVID in the middle, whatever.
And our brand, I think, sitsvery, very well Because it's a
little bit of everything.
Our brand, I think, sits very,very well because it's a little
bit of everything.
You could catch any segment,any audience without kicking it.
You're not kicking anybody.

(38:04):
Some people are going to likethe logo, some people are going
to like the name, some peopleare going to like the little
pasuk at the bottom.
You know like it's going to sayjust to have this like twist of
holiness.
You know, and everybody's goingto relate to something.

(38:25):
You know and people, once theytaste the wine, they're going to
remember it.
That I was convinced since thebeginning.
That's what brought me in thewinery in the first place.
But I said how do I get peopleto taste the wine in the first
place if I don't have a story?
Because it's a bottle and thisis a bottle Like what's gonna,
why should I pick you?
Yeah, there was the strategy andI stick to it for three years

(38:51):
selling the wine directly toconsumers without making any
differences.
Because once you go into thestores then your pricing has to
be adapted and then you makemistakes and you can't fix it.
So I said like if I'm makingthat step, I have to be prepared
and I have to do it right fromthe beginning, and that's what

(39:12):
my distributor liked.
And then I went on and didthings slowly, no rush, went
into stores one after the other,and if a store didn't want our
product for one reason oranother, we just didn't push, we
went to the next store.
We didn't need the stores.
I wanted to be in a positionwhere the stores would need us

(39:37):
more than I would need them.
You know they called us tobring the wine in because the
customers are asking.
So if a customer asks, I'm hereto serve, you know what's your
volume now, how many bottles doyou make?
So when I started in the wineryin 2018, the first vintage of

(39:58):
La Forêt Blanche winery, whichwas 2017, was 13,000 bottles,
and last year's vintage, 2024,we produced 75,000 bottles.
But it's still not enough.
The demand if I have to answerthe demand, the orders that I

(40:22):
have, the contracts that I have,I have to be somewhere around
150.

It's good, can you do that here?
We could Okay.

But if we're going to do it too fast, we're going
to lose something all the wayRight.
So what we're doing now, we'replanting vineyards and we're
growing and the demand is alsogrowing.
So by the time we're going toreach the 150, the demand is
going to be beyond, but it's agood thing.

It's a good thing to do.
Where do you source your?

grapes from.
So today we have MenachemLivni's vineyard.
You know, obviously, which is agood chunk of it.
You know it's like almost 40dunams of grapes.
The oldest vines there are 40years old.

(41:17):
You know which is the Cabernetthat makes the Yar Lev Anon.
He planted more Cabernet,whatever.
We have grapes in Mahon If youdrive from Yerushalayim.
We have these new vineyards inMahon which the 2024 was first
yield.
We have in Soucia the whitesare growing in Soucia Viognier,

(41:37):
chenin Blanc.
We have grapes in Assael, whichis south of here, which is more
reds.
It's large, larger vineyards,like you know, 20, 30 dunams,
and then another like anothervineyard, of 50 dunams.

(41:59):
Then we have this project in theNaveh which is like right next
to Karim Shalom.
Yeah, it's something we startedlike eight years ago.
They have their Merlot thatgrows in the sand right next to
Karim Shalom.
So it's like the sand really,like like four or five
kilometers from the sea if yougo over Rafiach, and then we

(42:20):
make the rosé out of this Merlotand then we planted whites like
a roussane to make the Talpiotwhite.
We have vineyards in AradValley which is a Sauvignon
Blanc that completes the Talpiotwhite, and then we also take
there the Grenache to make theRosé, because it's not enough to

(42:40):
have a lot of vineyards.
It's too small now to answerthe demand, so we complete it
with the Grenache from AradValley.

These are vineyards that you source from.
You have long-term contractswith.

Long-term contracts and we developed them.
All these vineyards wedeveloped, we went and analyzed
the grounds and decided exactlyhow it's going to be planted,
what style.

So you're really involved with the whole thing
from the beginning.

Yeah, so they had the land and they came to us and
every week I have people comingto me.
I have this land three dunam,twenty dunam.
Who's the agronomist?
You're using Moshe.

Levi.

Moshe Levi is like the.
He lives in Carmel, he's likeone of my neighbors.
He's now retired and he's likedoing consulting for many
different wineries and he reallyloves he's great at.
I mean, his motto is it's greatwhat they do in Europe, it's

(43:46):
great what they do in SouthAfrica or Australia, but we're
not Australia or New Zealand,we're Israel.
So you or New Zealand, we'reIsrael, so you have to adapt
your growing to Israel.
If in Europe they grow slow,they grow like low vines, it's
for a purpose.
If you're going to grow lowvines here in Israel, it's going

(44:10):
to have a very, very big effect.
That's why we grow it high andthe leaves and the irrigation
and all these things.
Like you have to know how togrow grapes in Israel so you can
learn different things anddifferent impacts.
And we're trying always, likewe have MOPSA, like, for example
, now we planted this year, Imean last year already we

(44:31):
planted Asortico.

You know, I think Jaco, already we planted
Assortico, I think Iacovoriaalso planted, and also, what do
you call it?
Drori, right?

So Bruno knows him very well.
He's a doll.

All of the winemakers you're discussing are
all winemakers who are juststellar people.
They're amazing people.
We have very good relations.
Iacovoria we have very goodrelations.

We all, yakovoria, we have great relations.
Just now, here in Yerucham thisyear we had like a low yield in
a certain vineyard, so we askedthem like yeah, no problem,
take two tons, like just tocomplete, and we gave in grapes,
and when you need likeequipment, emergency, different
things, so we ask and we adviseeach other.

(45:13):
And Eyal Dori also, like Bruno,speaks to him on a daily basis
and it's great to have this.
It's great.
It's like a small family butnobody's doing a shed on any.
There's enough.
There's so much demand.
Nobody's doing any harm.

(45:34):
There's no competition, really,because you can't meet the
demand of Israeli wines right soI think that's why pretty much
everyone is successful like andselling the wine at the end of
the day, like you don't hear ofwineries pouring wines in the
sea because they can't sell it,you know just like they do in
France, unless the wine isreally bad or they have cash

(45:55):
route issues.
That's also a very, very bigissue, but it's for a different
discussion, I guess.
So you have these wineries thatmade like a lot of wine, like
Heter Mechira doing Shemitah,and now it's like they have a
harder time selling it.
But this is like a technicalissue.
It's not just that they're nota recognized brand.
Do you find that your customerbase.

You have to be cashier, you have to be.
You kept Shemitah.

Yeah, we kept Shemitah.
We had to because MenachemLivni and it's part of our
high-end wines.
Most of our wines are relyingon these grapes.

I was going to ask you internationally Do you
have a vision internationally asto where?

So, internationally , my prime focus is the States.
You have a big part of theJewish population that drinks
wine.
I'm not going to say 6 millionJews, because not all of them
drink Israeli wines.

(46:57):
But it's a huge population, butit's a huge population and it's
a population that has also, youknow, meaning so not to neglect
at all at all.
And I try to go after you knowthe East or you know what about
Europe?
Europe were now in France alsoalmost since the beginning, with

(47:22):
a great distributor, maisonMercier, that does.
He does Tsion, 1848, and he didToura for a long time.
I don't know, maybe he stilldoes Netofa and you know many,
many wineries moved to him andhe's doing things the American
way in Europe what others didn'tdo.

(47:44):
And he has, like he'sdeveloping like private
customers.
He has a huge club in France.
He's doing like a north, eastand south of France, like he has
a huge club in France.
He's doing like north, east andsouth of France, like he has
reps.
So at first also, he actuallybelieved maybe more than the

(48:05):
Americans in the brand,obviously because it's French.
But the first order was verysmall and now it picked up to a
way that, almost like the USmarket, I have to share stock
with him.
It's like very, very consistent.
I shipped to him for Pesachalmost what I shipped to the

(48:26):
States.
It's crazy.
And he opened up the UK.

The UK is a great market.
There's some great people there.

So I let him open it.
But Germany, he's doing salesin Germany.
Austria, he's doing a littlebit of Italy.
Switzerland, he's doing great,he's doing there.
So these are the main, mainfocuses.
You know, when I take, when Imake productions, forecasts and
different things, I take thesetwo markets very seriously.

(49:00):
It's like export is like US,france, then I have Israel B2B
and I have Israel B2C and that'sbasically my forecast.
And that's basically myforecast.
And then I have spare winesthat I try to open new markets
such as China and Philippinesand India.

(49:22):
Someone contacted me fromThailand and different places
that in case I'm going to needextra development, whatever.
China is a great market, butit's difficult to penetrate,
therefore, with israeli winesbecause they are mostly
non-kosher.
You know, in france, forexample, talking about
non-kosher uh market, uh, mostof our consumers are jewish.

(49:47):
But uh, now he successfully uhmade it to the menu of the Club
Med.
You know Wow, club Med in theAlps, it's like 18 hotels just
in the Alps, you know Wow.
So they all have the De VereEstate blend on their menu as
the only kosher Israeli wine.

(50:08):
So they have like Greek wine,Italian wine, like one wine,
like the Spanish.

Bruno Darmon (50:12):
They have Israeli.
They're not going to hold awhole portfolio of yours.

They're looking for wine, it's great, and they're
not doing any noise.
And we asked them to publishthis.
I said you're going to do somuch damage by publishing this
because then they're going toboycott us.
So just don't say anything,just leave it alone and it's
going to do the work.
So just don't say anything,just leave it alone and it's

(50:35):
going to do the work, you know.

So this is an example of one of the non-kosher
experiences.

What's your goal in the next five years, in the
next ten years, for the winery?
My goal for the next five yearsis to successfully make.
To successfully make it todouble it, as per our plan to
answer the demand, but not justdouble the production.
I'm not focused on growingproduction, because if you

(51:08):
produce wine that you can't sell, it doesn't really help.
So my focus is to meet thedemand that I have now 150,000
bottles but keep the quality,have enough vineyards and to
plan now already for vineyardsthat are going to take me up to
200,000.

You said that the customers are changing, so
my anima amine.

Know, yeah, my is the cab.
Cabernet, sauvignon okay, it'sthe, it's the leader.
No matter how hard everybody'sgoing to try to dismantle it
from the top, it's still goingto be king.
You know so we can.
Once you, once we understandthat, then we can build.
You know.
So Cabernet has to be our mainfocus.

(51:57):
Now we are developing morewhites, because the demand for
whites is going up exponentially.
No matter how much bottles Iproduce, it's never enough.
You know, this year Talpiotwhite reached 10,000 bottles.
I never believed that I wouldmake it above 5,000 bottles, you
know.
And it's already sold.

(52:18):
It's like I have to fight forwhat I have left, like to stop
sales.
Like the States wanted anotherpallet, I told them no, france.
Like whatever I have here, Ihope it's going to last until
Chavuot.
You know this is how crazy itis for the whites.
So we are developing morewhites.

(52:38):
We have the Ariel white, whichis our high-end white, which
we're going to taste later ifyou want, which is Vionier, and
Chenin Blanc, because Bruno inthe whites, he was not a white
guy, but he told me, if we'regoing to make whites, then I'm
going to do my whites what Ibelieve in whites, not chard,

(52:59):
and not Sauvignon Blanc, and notthe regular stuff.
I want to be more in the Rome,côte du Rhone, which is like a
Viognier, jeannin Blanc,roussanne these are the grapes
that we're working on.
And then the Sauvignon Blancthat we use is not single, it's

(53:21):
like adding up, like acidity.
Like you know, it's very wellbalancing the Roussanne that we
have, for example.
So this is growing in thewhites.
Obviously, the Rosé, we'reswitching it to a more.
I'm not going to say Provencebecause we're not in Provence
and we will never be Right.

(53:41):
Okay, you can say that we'reMediterranean, but it's also a
little bit we're Israeli.
Okay, and I think a good grapeto make our rosé is the grenache
which we planted.
It's delicious, many of it.
But the Merlot that we havethat grows in the sand is
fantastic and that basicallymakes the rosé.
We're going to taste it.

(54:02):
But that makes the rosé notwatery, acidic like the Provence
type and not over fruity likemost Israeli rosés.
It's right in between rosé,it's like just fruity enough
with a great acidity balance.
That's right where it needs tobe.

(54:25):
I think this is the rosé, butwe don't really believe so much
in rosé and this is what I hearfrom the markets.
Rosé is not the big thing.
It's actually going down insales.
I think the whites are going tobe.

Whites is the big, big thing.

It's growing very, very fast and the market needs
whites.

I have a question, bruno.
Bruno, you have a secondRakutakak.
The question I have is is therea varietal or a blend?

Yesh, you're going to have to try you understand,
is there a?

varietal or a blend?
He's not sure.
Is there a varietal or a blendthat you really want to work on
in the future that you haven'thad a chance?

to do.
Yet this is the question.
That's one what's your dreamblend that you want to work on
later, but we're already workingon it.

We're already future blend gigant right right,
this is what he's dreaming ofto make.
Yes, I still love Francebecause I came and started my

(55:55):
work in the Burgundy area Okay,even though we were a little
more southern than that area.
It's the Gigondas, okay.

Gigondas, Gigondas.
Okay, so there is a wine thathe grew up with in France, that
Bruno grew up with in France,with in France that Bruno grew
up with in France, that youworked with initially there,
that you have a desire to, thatyou would love to develop in the
future, and it's what's thevarietal Gigondas, gigondas,

(56:26):
it's Grenache, syrah andMorvedre, okay, morvedre, or
even some Carignan Okayian, okaythat blend.
Okay, so that's it.
That's a rhone blend.
Uh yeah, one of the ron blendsone of the rome blends.

Okay, wow gigondas is like, would you say, uh, more
pretty much like it's like it'sa place gigondas, yes, yeah,
yeah, yeah, yeah, it's like it'sa place Gigondas, yes, yeah,
yeah, yeah, chateauneuf-du-pape,right, so that's what you're
looking for in the future.
So now we actually planted, weactually planted Grenache in a
special valley.
That would actually give ussomething close to that result,

(57:06):
like not too high in altitudebut not too low, like to get
that humidity, but just to havethe good level.
We planted Syrah and Mourvedre.
We have also Mourvedre here inSoussia and we have Carignan.

What's the terroir?
What's special about theterroir here in the Hebron
Heights area?
Is there something that makesit different than the rest of
Israel?
Wow, yeah, yes.

What.
Yes, you can First of all,there is blessing here.

It's important?
First of all, it has blessinghere.
This is a special place.

because of it, judah received blessing from
Jacob.

Yes, we saw that in the Torah.

Jacob gave blessing to Judah and we are
here in the land of Judah.
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

Yaakov Avino there's a blessing here, because
this is the land of Yehudah andYaakov gave Yehudah a blessing
specifically.

Yaakov made wine in that area.
He poured wine to Yitzhak Avinuin the story with Esav, so he
brought him wine, wine from here.
They lived in Hebron area.
This is where Yaakov Avinulived and this is where he gave
the blessing to Yehuda.

(58:41):
It should be called JudeanHeights, not Judean Hills.
The hills is like lower JudeanHeights.
There aren't many wineries thatgrow grapes at that height.
Like you know, hebron Heights,yeah, there aren't many wineries

(59:01):
.
I mean, in fact, I thinkLivni's Vineyard is the only
commercial vineyard in that area.
You know you have Kerem Halel.
It's like a small privatevineyard.
Yes, you have other wineries inthe area, but they source their
grapes outside.

I didn't even know Kerem Halal was there.
That's interesting.
Yeah, no, I know which one,kerem.

Halal, yeah, kerem Halal, but it's a small vineyard
I don't know.
He makes like 2,000, 3,000bottles.
It's not that commercial.
I'm talking about commercial,commercial grapes.

(59:43):
So it's very, very unique.
The altitude winds, cold winters, hot and dry summers.
Proximity to the Judean desertcreates a drop in the
atmospheric pressure on the east.
That drop in atmosphericpressure on the east, that drop
in atmospheric pressure,prevents the clouds to go east.
Like.
You come here in the winter,you see clouds pouring rain.
You look east, blue sky, and itdoesn't rain in the Judean

(01:00:08):
desert, which is like a fewkilometers east, I live at the
border of Carmel, it's likeright at the edge.
It's like, uh, you know, I livelike at the border of carmel,
is like right at the edge.
It's called charlamy bar, theuh desert, uh gate, gate to the
desert.
I see judy, like from my house.
It never rains there.
It's extremely rare, you know.
And uh, that whole area from, Iwould say from jerusalem, but

(01:00:32):
not Jerusalem.
It's already way.
It's too east, too west, sorry,but if you draw the line from,
let's say, tekoa, you know Tekoa, or maybe up to Mishor.

S. Simon Jacob (01:00:44):
Adumim.
My house actually looks at theChumot of Jerusalem Right and it
looks south and you can see theclouds come and then they stop
and into the desert there'snothing and it can be pouring
with rain, but into the desertand this is unique to that place

(01:01:04):
.

Yaacov Bris (01:01:05):
you don't have that in the Michaux, in Haré Yehuda
different altitude, wind,dryness.
How high is it here?
Here we're about 875, thewinery and the vineyard is like
980.

And it faces what direction South, north east
.

The grapes are planted west to east, west to
east, west to east in a sort ofwadi.
So it's like deep, deep, deepdirt.
Terra rossa Right terra rossa,and the Pinot Noir in that
vineyard is planted on the hillin the vineyard, so it's like a

(01:01:50):
more rocky vineyard and that'swhy that's what makes the Pinot
Noir that we have like so so itirrigates it.

Not only irrigates, it drains itself.
So it's not sitting in wateryeah, very cool.

So that's the, that's pretty much the vineyard,
the terroir thank you, todahtodah Bruno, really amazing.

Ta-da ta-da Bruno Al-ud-da-ba, really
amazing.
Okay, baruch Hashem.

You want to make a pause and eat something, drink
something?

Let's taste some .
You got me thirsty.
Please check out our nextweek's episode for part two of
this delightful conversation andtasting with Jacob Briss at his

(01:02:40):
La Forêt Blanche winery.
This is Simon Jacob, again yourhost of today's episode of The
Kosher Terroir.
I have a personal request.
Thank you are released.

(01:03:16):
If you're new to The KosherTerroir, please check out our
many past episodes.

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