December 15, 2024 • 25 mins
Join Dr. Rick Arrowood for an engaging conversation with Matthew Coccoluto, a talented former student from Northeastern University D'Amore-McKim School of Business, as he shares his extraordinary transition from the stunning landscapes of Pepperdine University to the bustling tech scene in Boston. Matthew's journey is fascinating, as he recounts how the ocean views of Malibu seduced him during his film studies, yet ultimately his roots and the fast-paced rhythm of Boston beckoned him back. Listen as Matthew details how his foundation in project management during his graduate studies laid the groundwork for an unexpected opportunity at Uber, propelling him into the dynamic world of tech and operations management at ezCater.
We then shift gears to tackle the evolving role of AI in the workplace, with a focus on the digital food marketplace. Matthew and I explore how AI is reshaping decision-making and efficiency, enhancing tasks like SQL queries, while also maintaining the delicate balance of personal client relationships. Our discussion highlights the growing acceptance of AI in business schools, transitioning from strict bans to more structured frameworks. As technology advances, we ponder whether businesses are actively crafting AI policies or merely observing its impact. This episode is an insightful look into the intersection of tech, education, and the transformative power of AI.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Hello and welcome to another edition of the Leader
Brew podcast.
I am Dr Rick Gowerwood and I'myour host for today, and once
again, I have such listen.
I have such an amazing jobbecause I get to meet students
and then continue relationshipswith students well beyond the
classroom, which has beenabsolutely one of the most
(00:37):
exciting parts of teaching in myview.
And today I'm joined by MatthewCoccoluto, and I promised I was
going to really work on thatlast name.
I think I came pretty close, soI want to welcome Matt to the
show today and hope you're doinggreat, so welcome, Thank you so
much.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
I'm so happy to be here.
This is good, you know.
Tell us a little bit a littlebit about yourself.
Yeah, I mean so I was one ofyour students at Northeastern
Business School.
That was the first session, sokind of the introduction to
business school was through yourclass.
But I mean, I grew up in theBoston area.
I've lived here pretty much mywhole life, but I did go to
(01:19):
school, undergrad in California,went to Pepperdine, got a
degree in film studies, workedin television for three years in
LA after got homesick forBoston, moved back in 2014,
spent most of my life most of myprofessional life now since
then in some combination of tech, so either in operations
(01:40):
management or customer success.
I live in Medford with my wife.
We got married earlier thisyear, so actually going on our
honeymoon in a little bit at theend of the year.
But yeah, so that's a littlebit about me.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
Oh yeah, Then there was this thing called graduate
school as well.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Yes, which I started in 2022.
Yeah, wow.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
Time flies when you're having fun.
Yeah, I guess so, I guess so.
So I want to know what was itlike going to Pepperdine and, as
I recall, looking at the ocean.
That's the one thing that Iremember about Pepperdine being
sort of on the side of a cliffin Malibu, overlooking the ocean
.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
So I grew up in Stoneham, massachusetts, and I
always had the idea that, likeI'm going to go to campus school
in an urban environment.
I wanted either BU,northeastern I looked at like
George Washington, nyu.
I was really like I want urbancenter.
And then it was my uncle whohad spent some time in
California.
He's like you should look atPepperdine.
And when I applied I got in.
(02:41):
We're like okay, let's go checkit out and just that.
First drive up to campus andyou're looking at the cliffs and
the ocean and everything andyou're like this is not real,
this is not where people shouldbe going to college.
It sold me immediately.
I was like, yeah, I mean, thisis, this is where I'm supposed
to be.
It's a big distraction havingthe beach so close and, but I
(03:01):
love my time there and Iwouldn't.
I wouldn't change it foranything.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
Yeah, you know, I've always had this enormous desire
to live as close to the edge aspossible relative to geography
Probably applies in my real lifeas well, and I would think that
had I gone to a school likePepperdine, in terms of its
(03:25):
location, I think I would havebeen doing probably too much
reflection.
I think reflection is reallygreat.
St Ignatius teaches us that andthe Jesuit following it is an
important role.
I think I probably would havegone a bit overboard.
I'm not sure I would havegotten anything done, but I
would have done quite a bit ofreflecting.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
Yeah, I mean I won't say I was the most studious
person in my undergraduate.
I got by just fine, but Iwasn't pushing the limits of my
GPA, so I spent a lot of timejust kind of enjoying the area
and being next to the beach.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
That is, that is wonderful.
So then, the transition back toBoston did you feel as though
that was sort of bringing youback to your roots?
That could, that tradition wasbeing involved, sort of
convention is there and is thatreally sort of what?
What brought you back?
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Yeah, I mean that and it was mostly just family too.
My brother was having his firstkid or just had his first kid,
so I wanted to be around.
But definitely I think therewas always this feeling of being
an outsider.
In LA I would purposely try toshow up to things 20 minutes
late and I'd still be the firstperson there.
Or just like waiting for thingsin the coffee shop line and
(04:44):
just how slow things moved would.
It was like an itch inside ofme that like I couldn't.
I couldn't adjust to, like thepacing and yeah.
So I think coming back toboston and getting readjusted to
the city felt more of like thisis my natural habitat and in in
terms of your experience in interms of the classroom.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
So after you left undergraduate, then you came
back and started to work andthen you went into graduate
school.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
So it's actually kind of funny.
When I moved back, I said I wasgoing to do some graduate work
and I actually started takingclasses at Northeastern in the
College of Professional Studies,focused on project management,
and I had done some project workand a lot of television
production is project work, soit's each individual episode is
essentially its own project andthen it's a deliverable you have
(05:34):
to provide each week to getonto air.
And I really wanted to make apivot into a tech.
So I was like, let me focus onthe project side, because I've
done it already in productionand I think if I take some
classes, I might be able to thenadjust into like a tech
environment.
And so, yeah, I started doinggraduate classes.
I got two sessions through and Ihad started a temp job at Uber
(05:59):
and they asked if I wanted toapply for a full-time role and
this was the end of 2014.
So I applied, I got it andbasically part of that was like
I could not do Uber and do gradschool at the same time.
Uber was still so hyper growthat that time.
So, yeah, at the beginning of2015, I decided to put grad
school on hold so that I couldfocus full-time on career work,
(06:21):
and that was a great decisionbecause Uber taught me so much.
Fast forward to 2021, startingto get that itch again of, okay,
where's my career going, whatdo I need to do to kind of make
the next step?
And that's when business schoolstarted poking its head.
I also had worked for so manypeople who got MBAs that I just
started as like the logical nextstep and I suspect a lot of
(06:44):
students experience what youexperienced that needing to put
grad school on hold.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
Right, because on the one hand you're there, you're
in the field, you're reallylearning so much and Uber is a
great example in terms of how ittook off so quickly and it's
hard to sort of give that up.
But eventually you kind ofwrestled with that decision.
Was it something that sort ofgnawed at you from the moment
(07:13):
you made the decision okay, I'mgoing to put grad school on hold
?
Did the gnawing sort of beginthere, like make sure you get to
grad school.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
Yeah, I think being so.
Like I said, when I wasespecially at Uber, a lot of the
people I worked for or were insome form of management role
above me whether it was mymanager or a general manager all
the way up had business schoolexperience and they talked so
fondly about it and we wouldhire people coming from business
school into roles high above meand I would see sort of them as
(07:48):
like that's a benchmark of Ineed to measure myself up to
like how do I get to that level?
Well, clearly this, this gradschool aspect plays into it and
I think that was always a littlething in the back of my mind,
like there's something there toget if you're getting a, getting
a business degree definitelyhelps and maybe I should explore
that, but not right now.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
Yeah, and that's, and it's, it's that timing also
right, it's it's.
We do have life that goes onaround us, that you know we need
to interact and engage with anddeal with oftentimes, and then
just sort of sort of making thatdecision.
So now then, you've maintainedworking full-time and you did
(08:31):
grad school over the past.
Well, so has it been like threeyears now.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
Yeah, I'll be done basically at this time next week
.
So yeah, three years.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
How exciting, how exciting is that.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
It's crazy.
It's the most surreal thing.
I can't believe it's actuallyhere.
It just feels like it's beensuch a part of my life.
Like I started this program Iwas at a different job, I was
not even engaged yet.
Here I am now going to be done.
It's just a massive part of mylife that has happened.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
That's fantastic.
How did you find sort of theclassroom experience, right?
So this show has predominantlybeen from the classroom to the
real world, right?
So clearly in this case we'vegone from the classroom to the
real world, back to theclassroom, but still within the
real world.
How do you see that Like?
(09:23):
What's that experience like?
Speaker 2 (09:25):
within the real world .
How do you see that?
What's that experience like?
Yeah, I mean, it really dependson the subject matter and the
professor, but overall, I thinkthat most of the time,
especially being a part-timestudent and still working
full-time, there's a lot ofreally great, just natural
transitions you can take fromalmost immediately, where you're
learning something in theclassroom and you're you're like
(09:47):
that.
That actually resonates to me.
I mean, I remember one class Iwas I was taking uh was
negotiations, and that was justa phenomenal class overall.
But there'll be times where we'dbe discussing something in
class and talking aboutstrategies, about convincing
somebody to see your point ofview or how to uh adjust to
people who may be coming at youwith a hostile attitude versus
(10:10):
not, and I just rememberthinking like, oh, this is good
stuff.
I need to write down this.
I need to start drafting anemail right now, because I have
this issue that I'm dealing with, where I am dealing with
someone who's hostile and theydon't want to listen to me, and
this is a great tactic that Icould use to de-arm them and
make this so that we have aproductive conversation.
So there were definitely timeswhere I was like I'm going to
use this right now, likeimmediately.
(10:31):
And then there are other thingswhere I just look back on some
of them and I'm like that was itwasn't the immediate, oh yeah,
I can use this right now.
But upon practice and upon likereview and reflection, like, oh
wait, I did pick up somethingthat I'm now applying in my job.
So, like overall, I actuallyreally really found a lot.
I found a lot of value to it.
But I also really encouragedwas really encouraged by the way
(10:54):
that the part-time programitself directly interacted with
my day-to-day, because I had theability to then apply the
learnings without having to waittwo years, get a new job and
then apply them.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
You know that's.
I do think that's exactly oneof the beauties of grad school.
I don't necessarily think youget it in undergraduate, just
perhaps a little bit.
But it's really grad schoolthat brings that learning alive
and puts it into that real worldexperiential aspects In your
day-to-day work, how much of itis task oriented and how much is
(11:31):
it people oriented.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
That's a great question.
I think it's close to so.
I work in partner success,which is just another way of
saying customer success.
So the people side of it playsa massive part, because it
really is all aboutrelationships.
So at least half my job isreally just how do I make sure
(11:59):
the people I'm interacting withand the people that I've built a
relationship with are happy andfeeling heard, whether I work
for a digital food marketplaceand I work with large restaurant
brands, so regardless of whatthe issue is whether it's good
or bad I want to make sure thatthey are feeling like they have
a true partner with me.
So people overall just makes upsuch a massive part of my job,
(12:21):
and then the other half isreally just tasks getting things
done?
Speaker 1 (12:27):
And where do you see artificial intelligence, large
learning machines, robots comingin in terms of your industry
and perhaps in your workplace?
Speaker 2 (12:40):
Yeah, so my company, which is Easy Cater, has done a
lot of work around integratingAI early on, especially around
just like food.
In general, people tend to be alittle indecisive and the types
of orders we see are all largeorders.
You're ordering for 10, 15, 20people even more.
Sometimes these are people inoffice spaces.
(13:02):
That adds a lot of pressure oflike, am I considering all the
things of like dietaryrestrictions?
Is this food going to bepopular?
If you're ordering for, saylike, c-suite level management,
is this going to make me lookgood?
Is it going to make me look bad?
And there's an aspect of, well,what should I be ordering?
That we've actually reallyleaned into and using AI to kind
(13:26):
of generate those ideas Likewell, tell us what you're
ordering for, like, who'sinvolved, tell us a little bit
more, and then we'll actuallyspit out ideas of like okay,
well, this food plays reallywell, here's how much of this
you should be ordering.
Beyond that, in my day-to-day, Ireally like using it as sort of
just a tool to enhance myabilities.
I have to provide a lot of myrestaurant groups with data
(13:48):
around how they're performingand analysis around where they
could do better, and it reallyhelps to just have a tool that I
can say like okay, what aresome of the key takeaways that
you would see in this?
I'm struggling to understandopportunity areas in this Metro
and it just really helps toenhance.
And beyond that, just like thesimple things that I would have
(14:09):
to Google search before, so likeExcel, formulas, sql, and I'm
like before I'd be like, oh, howdo I do a case, when Now I'm
like I want to do this, what doI need to add?
What do I need to put in myselect clause, my from clause,
my where clause, to get it tospit out and it'll populate a
whole formula for me to justcopy and paste, which is really,
really fast.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
Which is really really incredible, right?
How do you find co-workers interms of their hesitation or
resistance, or our generalacceptance of AI?
Speaker 2 (14:43):
Yeah, I think there's still a lot of trepidation
amongst some of us who arereally in that relationship
first position, because so muchof what we do is supposed to be
around being like that warm,friendly face and if you're
leaving things to AI or any sortof automated system, there's a
(15:05):
concern that you're kind ofremoving that friendliness to it
from it.
I think I consider myself amore like moderately adjusting
person who has seized value init, but I'm not diving all the
way in yet.
I'm not necessarily trying toautomate every aspect of my
day-to-day or trying to lean onAI on every aspect.
I'm not having AI write all myemails and things like that.
(15:28):
I'm definitely still puttingtogether a lot of my own
personal touches into things,but as it gets better too, I
probably will see myself leaningmore heavily on it to draft my
emails and, when it gets better,making it sound like me.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
Overall, I think there's still a little bit of
hesitation, especially aroundthat people-to-people
interaction and making it asfriendly and warm as possible Do
you think that business schoolsought to incorporate more AI
tools within the classroom andtherefore give students an
(16:05):
opportunity to sort ofexperiment in the academic
laboratory sort of setting?
Speaker 2 (16:11):
Yeah, Absolutely I don't.
I don't think we all know thatthis isn't going away.
It's becoming more and more apart of our day to day.
So what better way than havingit in the classroom where you
can, like you said, experiment?
I think it's funny.
I've already seen a little bitof the shift from maybe a year
ago where you know you look atthe syllabus of the class and it
(16:31):
just says like, please know,like using chat, gpt or any any
AI, to now my last class beinglike there are frameworks in
which you can use chat, gpt, andhere's how I encourage that and
it's like it's obviously.
It's not don't write your wholepaper, that don't have it.
Write your whole paper, but youcan lean on it as a source and
as long as you say like I usedAI or chat, gpt, uh, to work on
(16:55):
this, it's okay.
And so that was already.
We're seeing, I was already.
I was interested to see thatbecause I'm like that's the
first, because I had not seenthat previously and so it was
kind of cool.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
So that's interesting .
You know, as you were sayingthat, I was thinking to myself,
certainly from the highereducation standpoint.
You know we kind of went intothat no, you cannot use it to
sort of the other extreme.
Some of us were like, yeah,give it a try, see what happens.
And then we've kind of comeback to sort of the middle, as
you say, the frameworks.
(17:26):
If you use it.
This is how you use it withinthis particular area In terms of
the workplace.
Did your organization go aboutsort of putting those policies
out, or is it just been kind ofa wait and see?
Speaker 2 (17:43):
So early on, there was a little bit of a hey, this
is all very exciting, but weneed to implement policies that
make sure we're utilizing it inthe right manner, mostly being
we need to make sure we'reprotecting our data and not
using tools that may lead to ourproprietary data getting out
(18:04):
there.
So there was some concernsearly on, very briefly, as they
worked with the various partnersthat are out there to figure
out a system that would work forus.
So we do use Glean as our sortof like AI tool and we basically
now have free reign to use itas we need.
And we use, obviously, aicompanion with our Zoom calls
(18:24):
and Slack, and they're prettymuch everywhere.
All of our tools have some AIcomponent where we can lean on
it, for, like I said, eitherit's analysis, it's drafting
emails, it's creating workflows.
So, yeah, we definitely embraceit.
And then, furthermore, we'vedone the customer side, where
there's actually AI tools beingused to help draft orders or
(18:46):
improve the support experience.
We've been doing that a lotwith that too.
Speaker 1 (18:52):
Yeah, with this whole notion of really doing good
overall for the organization, Iwant to go back to this notion
of grad school and sort ofputting grad school on hold.
If someone's out there andthey're thinking about grad
school, what advice would yougive them?
Speaker 2 (19:10):
So the best, I think, piece of advice that I got when
I was thinking about it firstwas what is actually going to
happen if I get this degree.
Like am I going to learn?
Am I at a place right now whereI need this learning to further
myself?
Or, flip side, is my jobfulfilling enough and creating
(19:32):
enough of an opportunity for meto learn and grow that all I'd
be doing was just wasting, youknow, expanding my time,
stretching myself too thin sothat I'm now doing a worse,
doing a poorer job on the day today, and then also now
stretching myself in grad school.
And now I'm in my mid 30s and Iwill say I wish I had gone to
grad school a little bit earlier, because I do feel like I'm on
(19:52):
the older side for some of thegrad classes.
But, that being said, therewere very few times where I
would have wanted to walk awayfrom my job or take time away
from it because I was learningso much.
So I think once you're notlearning on the job or you're
stalling or feeling like you'restuck, then that's probably a
good idea, that maybe somethingneeds to change and that
probably could be, or mostlikely could be, going to grad
(20:15):
school.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
But possibly have some clarity as well.
Like why yes, just to go back,just to get the degree, to say
I'll have the degree, is onlygoing to get you so far, right.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
Exactly, and it also helps with what environment
you're in.
So Uber was not one for sharingresponsibility with the grad
program, so you weren'tencouraged to go to grad school.
If you're going to go to gradschool, that meant you're going
to quit your job and go forth.
But then I worked at Wayfairand that was a completely
different environment wherebeing in grad school was seen as
(20:46):
a positive thing.
It was seen as something thatmeant you were taking ownership
of your career.
It was seen as an opportunityto grow within the organization
that it would help you learnthings you needed to do to
become, you know, a seniormanager or director, ad.
So that was that was actuallywhat I was at Wayfair when I
started having theseconversations again, started
picking it back up and it was mymanager.
He said he was going through itand he said why have you
(21:09):
thought about it?
Because you clearly want togrow and learn and become a
bigger, better leader, so whynot go to grad school?
Speaker 1 (21:16):
Fantastic, I think that's it.
Why not right?
Why not just know the why?
I think that's key.
Well, one of the things that welike to ask on the Leaderproof
podcast is what would you tellthat eight-year-old self about
(21:36):
what's ahead?
Speaker 2 (21:39):
Oh man, I mean, at first I would probably say that
you have some really, reallyawesome times ahead of you, that
things are going to get really,really good, that there are
going to be a lot of stresses inyour life and you'll have to
deal with them, but overallthere's a lot of things to look
(22:00):
forward to, and so just enjoythem and just be ready and live
those moments, because oncethose moments are gone, you
don't get them back.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
Take the author up on the school that has the ocean
view, if for a little while.
Exactly yes, the decisionsdon't have to be permanent right
nope, and that's the other.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
I think that's another aspect, like don't be
afraid to fail.
Um, you know, it's just, therewill be bumps in the road and
there'll be, you know.
I think especially like lookingat career and career trajectory
and where I thought I was whenI was 21, 22, 22, entering the
workforce, thinking, you know, Ican do whatever I'm going to be
, I'm going to be a big time TVproducer, and three years later
(22:45):
I wasn't even working intelevision anymore and then it
was I'm going to, you know, makeit make be a massive force in
tech in Boston.
And you know that's still TBD,because here I am 10 years after
that and still chugging alongand trying to make my own path.
So yeah, like there are ups anddowns and you just kind of have
to roll with them.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
But the idea of like where you're going to be at one
point will probably shift andchange drastically, and that's
okay, I think that's the key,and I think one of the things
that strikes me about you isthat you want to be the best at
whatever you're doing.
It's that constant critique andthat constant questioning Do I
(23:27):
need this?
If so, why do I need it?
There's got to be a logic thereto some extent, but I think
that's one of the core valuesthat really has guided you up
until this point, and I can onlyimagine what's ahead.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
Like I said, I'm so excited to be done with the
program, not because it's theend of the road and I'm now
going to have all this free time, but also it's like what can I
do now that I've had thiseducation?
And now that it's behind me, Iget to actually fully implement
it?
And not that I've had thiseducation and now that it's
behind me, like I get toactually fully implement it.
And not that I'm encouragingpeople to always like work
really late, but there have beendays where I'm like, oh, I
(24:04):
really wish I could stay alittle later because I have,
like, on a roll, I'm gettingthings done and I'm like, oh, I
got to go to class, right, andthose will be those.
There'll be those days whereI'm like I'm going to be able to
get some really awesome stuffdone now because I don't have to
worry about going to class.
Also, it's going to mean thatI'm going to have more free time
, like I said, so I get to dothings that I've been putting
off and maybe go out on aTuesday night with my wife
(24:27):
because we haven't been able todo that.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
Yeah, maybe there's an answer right the competing
priorities will certainly changeover the course of time.
Competing priorities willcertainly change over the course
of time, but I suspect you'regoing to get right back at doing
something that's going to betime-consuming once again.
Yes, I'm very much planning.
That that's fantastic.
All right, Matt, thank you somuch for being on the show today
(24:51):
.
We really appreciate it andwish you all the best ahead.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
Thank you, dr Erwin.
It was a pleasure, and it'salways great talking with you,
so I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
Thank you all very much for joining us on yet
another exciting episode of theLeader Group podcast.
We want to thank NortheasternUniversity, swinburne University
, the Solotron Group and, ofcourse, jared Zamarowski, who
does all of our audio and makesus look and sound great.
Thank you all, have a great day.
Thank you.
Hello and welcome to another edition of the Leader
Brew podcast.
I am Dr Rick Gowerwood and I'myour host for today, and once
again, I have such listen.
I have such an amazing jobbecause I get to meet students
and then continue relationshipswith students well beyond the
classroom, which has beenabsolutely one of the most
(00:37):
exciting parts of teaching in myview.
And today I'm joined by MatthewCoccoluto, and I promised I was
going to really work on thatlast name.
I think I came pretty close, soI want to welcome Matt to the
show today and hope you're doinggreat, so welcome, Thank you so
much.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
I'm so happy to be here.
This is good, you know.
Tell us a little bit a littlebit about yourself.
Yeah, I mean so I was one ofyour students at Northeastern
Business School.
That was the first session, sokind of the introduction to
business school was through yourclass.
But I mean, I grew up in theBoston area.
I've lived here pretty much mywhole life, but I did go to
(01:19):
school, undergrad in California,went to Pepperdine, got a
degree in film studies, workedin television for three years in
LA after got homesick forBoston, moved back in 2014,
spent most of my life most of myprofessional life now since
then in some combination of tech, so either in operations
(01:40):
management or customer success.
I live in Medford with my wife.
We got married earlier thisyear, so actually going on our
honeymoon in a little bit at theend of the year.
But yeah, so that's a littlebit about me.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
Oh yeah, Then there was this thing called graduate
school as well.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Yes, which I started in 2022.
Yeah, wow.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
Time flies when you're having fun.
Yeah, I guess so, I guess so.
So I want to know what was itlike going to Pepperdine and, as
I recall, looking at the ocean.
That's the one thing that Iremember about Pepperdine being
sort of on the side of a cliffin Malibu, overlooking the ocean
.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
So I grew up in Stoneham, massachusetts, and I
always had the idea that, likeI'm going to go to campus school
in an urban environment.
I wanted either BU,northeastern I looked at like
George Washington, nyu.
I was really like I want urbancenter.
And then it was my uncle whohad spent some time in
California.
He's like you should look atPepperdine.
And when I applied I got in.
(02:41):
We're like okay, let's go checkit out and just that.
First drive up to campus andyou're looking at the cliffs and
the ocean and everything andyou're like this is not real,
this is not where people shouldbe going to college.
It sold me immediately.
I was like, yeah, I mean, thisis, this is where I'm supposed
to be.
It's a big distraction havingthe beach so close and, but I
(03:01):
love my time there and Iwouldn't.
I wouldn't change it foranything.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
Yeah, you know, I've always had this enormous desire
to live as close to the edge aspossible relative to geography
Probably applies in my real lifeas well, and I would think that
had I gone to a school likePepperdine, in terms of its
(03:25):
location, I think I would havebeen doing probably too much
reflection.
I think reflection is reallygreat.
St Ignatius teaches us that andthe Jesuit following it is an
important role.
I think I probably would havegone a bit overboard.
I'm not sure I would havegotten anything done, but I
would have done quite a bit ofreflecting.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
Yeah, I mean I won't say I was the most studious
person in my undergraduate.
I got by just fine, but Iwasn't pushing the limits of my
GPA, so I spent a lot of timejust kind of enjoying the area
and being next to the beach.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
That is, that is wonderful.
So then, the transition back toBoston did you feel as though
that was sort of bringing youback to your roots?
That could, that tradition wasbeing involved, sort of
convention is there and is thatreally sort of what?
What brought you back?
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Yeah, I mean that and it was mostly just family too.
My brother was having his firstkid or just had his first kid,
so I wanted to be around.
But definitely I think therewas always this feeling of being
an outsider.
In LA I would purposely try toshow up to things 20 minutes
late and I'd still be the firstperson there.
Or just like waiting for thingsin the coffee shop line and
(04:44):
just how slow things moved would.
It was like an itch inside ofme that like I couldn't.
I couldn't adjust to, like thepacing and yeah.
So I think coming back toboston and getting readjusted to
the city felt more of like thisis my natural habitat and in in
terms of your experience in interms of the classroom.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
So after you left undergraduate, then you came
back and started to work andthen you went into graduate
school.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
So it's actually kind of funny.
When I moved back, I said I wasgoing to do some graduate work
and I actually started takingclasses at Northeastern in the
College of Professional Studies,focused on project management,
and I had done some project workand a lot of television
production is project work, soit's each individual episode is
essentially its own project andthen it's a deliverable you have
(05:34):
to provide each week to getonto air.
And I really wanted to make apivot into a tech.
So I was like, let me focus onthe project side, because I've
done it already in productionand I think if I take some
classes, I might be able to thenadjust into like a tech
environment.
And so, yeah, I started doinggraduate classes.
I got two sessions through and Ihad started a temp job at Uber
(05:59):
and they asked if I wanted toapply for a full-time role and
this was the end of 2014.
So I applied, I got it andbasically part of that was like
I could not do Uber and do gradschool at the same time.
Uber was still so hyper growthat that time.
So, yeah, at the beginning of2015, I decided to put grad
school on hold so that I couldfocus full-time on career work,
(06:21):
and that was a great decisionbecause Uber taught me so much.
Fast forward to 2021, startingto get that itch again of, okay,
where's my career going, whatdo I need to do to kind of make
the next step?
And that's when business schoolstarted poking its head.
I also had worked for so manypeople who got MBAs that I just
started as like the logical nextstep and I suspect a lot of
(06:44):
students experience what youexperienced that needing to put
grad school on hold.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
Right, because on the one hand you're there, you're
in the field, you're reallylearning so much and Uber is a
great example in terms of how ittook off so quickly and it's
hard to sort of give that up.
But eventually you kind ofwrestled with that decision.
Was it something that sort ofgnawed at you from the moment
(07:13):
you made the decision okay, I'mgoing to put grad school on hold
?
Did the gnawing sort of beginthere, like make sure you get to
grad school.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
Yeah, I think being so.
Like I said, when I wasespecially at Uber, a lot of the
people I worked for or were insome form of management role
above me whether it was mymanager or a general manager all
the way up had business schoolexperience and they talked so
fondly about it and we wouldhire people coming from business
school into roles high above meand I would see sort of them as
(07:48):
like that's a benchmark of Ineed to measure myself up to
like how do I get to that level?
Well, clearly this, this gradschool aspect plays into it and
I think that was always a littlething in the back of my mind,
like there's something there toget if you're getting a, getting
a business degree definitelyhelps and maybe I should explore
that, but not right now.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
Yeah, and that's, and it's, it's that timing also
right, it's it's.
We do have life that goes onaround us, that you know we need
to interact and engage with anddeal with oftentimes, and then
just sort of sort of making thatdecision.
So now then, you've maintainedworking full-time and you did
(08:31):
grad school over the past.
Well, so has it been like threeyears now.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
Yeah, I'll be done basically at this time next week
.
So yeah, three years.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
How exciting, how exciting is that.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
It's crazy.
It's the most surreal thing.
I can't believe it's actuallyhere.
It just feels like it's beensuch a part of my life.
Like I started this program Iwas at a different job, I was
not even engaged yet.
Here I am now going to be done.
It's just a massive part of mylife that has happened.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
That's fantastic.
How did you find sort of theclassroom experience, right?
So this show has predominantlybeen from the classroom to the
real world, right?
So clearly in this case we'vegone from the classroom to the
real world, back to theclassroom, but still within the
real world.
How do you see that Like?
(09:23):
What's that experience like?
Speaker 2 (09:25):
within the real world .
How do you see that?
What's that experience like?
Yeah, I mean, it really dependson the subject matter and the
professor, but overall, I thinkthat most of the time,
especially being a part-timestudent and still working
full-time, there's a lot ofreally great, just natural
transitions you can take fromalmost immediately, where you're
learning something in theclassroom and you're you're like
(09:47):
that.
That actually resonates to me.
I mean, I remember one class Iwas I was taking uh was
negotiations, and that was justa phenomenal class overall.
But there'll be times where we'dbe discussing something in
class and talking aboutstrategies, about convincing
somebody to see your point ofview or how to uh adjust to
people who may be coming at youwith a hostile attitude versus
(10:10):
not, and I just rememberthinking like, oh, this is good
stuff.
I need to write down this.
I need to start drafting anemail right now, because I have
this issue that I'm dealing with, where I am dealing with
someone who's hostile and theydon't want to listen to me, and
this is a great tactic that Icould use to de-arm them and
make this so that we have aproductive conversation.
So there were definitely timeswhere I was like I'm going to
use this right now, likeimmediately.
(10:31):
And then there are other thingswhere I just look back on some
of them and I'm like that was itwasn't the immediate, oh yeah,
I can use this right now.
But upon practice and upon likereview and reflection, like, oh
wait, I did pick up somethingthat I'm now applying in my job.
So, like overall, I actuallyreally really found a lot.
I found a lot of value to it.
But I also really encouragedwas really encouraged by the way
(10:54):
that the part-time programitself directly interacted with
my day-to-day, because I had theability to then apply the
learnings without having to waittwo years, get a new job and
then apply them.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
You know that's.
I do think that's exactly oneof the beauties of grad school.
I don't necessarily think youget it in undergraduate, just
perhaps a little bit.
But it's really grad schoolthat brings that learning alive
and puts it into that real worldexperiential aspects In your
day-to-day work, how much of itis task oriented and how much is
(11:31):
it people oriented.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
That's a great question.
I think it's close to so.
I work in partner success,which is just another way of
saying customer success.
So the people side of it playsa massive part, because it
really is all aboutrelationships.
So at least half my job isreally just how do I make sure
(11:59):
the people I'm interacting withand the people that I've built a
relationship with are happy andfeeling heard, whether I work
for a digital food marketplaceand I work with large restaurant
brands, so regardless of whatthe issue is whether it's good
or bad I want to make sure thatthey are feeling like they have
a true partner with me.
So people overall just makes upsuch a massive part of my job,
(12:21):
and then the other half isreally just tasks getting things
done?
Speaker 1 (12:27):
And where do you see artificial intelligence, large
learning machines, robots comingin in terms of your industry
and perhaps in your workplace?
Speaker 2 (12:40):
Yeah, so my company, which is Easy Cater, has done a
lot of work around integratingAI early on, especially around
just like food.
In general, people tend to be alittle indecisive and the types
of orders we see are all largeorders.
You're ordering for 10, 15, 20people even more.
Sometimes these are people inoffice spaces.
(13:02):
That adds a lot of pressure oflike, am I considering all the
things of like dietaryrestrictions?
Is this food going to bepopular?
If you're ordering for, saylike, c-suite level management,
is this going to make me lookgood?
Is it going to make me look bad?
And there's an aspect of, well,what should I be ordering?
That we've actually reallyleaned into and using AI to kind
(13:26):
of generate those ideas Likewell, tell us what you're
ordering for, like, who'sinvolved, tell us a little bit
more, and then we'll actuallyspit out ideas of like okay,
well, this food plays reallywell, here's how much of this
you should be ordering.
Beyond that, in my day-to-day, Ireally like using it as sort of
just a tool to enhance myabilities.
I have to provide a lot of myrestaurant groups with data
(13:48):
around how they're performingand analysis around where they
could do better, and it reallyhelps to just have a tool that I
can say like okay, what aresome of the key takeaways that
you would see in this?
I'm struggling to understandopportunity areas in this Metro
and it just really helps toenhance.
And beyond that, just like thesimple things that I would have
(14:09):
to Google search before, so likeExcel, formulas, sql, and I'm
like before I'd be like, oh, howdo I do a case, when Now I'm
like I want to do this, what doI need to add?
What do I need to put in myselect clause, my from clause,
my where clause, to get it tospit out and it'll populate a
whole formula for me to justcopy and paste, which is really,
really fast.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
Which is really really incredible, right?
How do you find co-workers interms of their hesitation or
resistance, or our generalacceptance of AI?
Speaker 2 (14:43):
Yeah, I think there's still a lot of trepidation
amongst some of us who arereally in that relationship
first position, because so muchof what we do is supposed to be
around being like that warm,friendly face and if you're
leaving things to AI or any sortof automated system, there's a
(15:05):
concern that you're kind ofremoving that friendliness to it
from it.
I think I consider myself amore like moderately adjusting
person who has seized value init, but I'm not diving all the
way in yet.
I'm not necessarily trying toautomate every aspect of my
day-to-day or trying to lean onAI on every aspect.
I'm not having AI write all myemails and things like that.
(15:28):
I'm definitely still puttingtogether a lot of my own
personal touches into things,but as it gets better too, I
probably will see myself leaningmore heavily on it to draft my
emails and, when it gets better,making it sound like me.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
Overall, I think there's still a little bit of
hesitation, especially aroundthat people-to-people
interaction and making it asfriendly and warm as possible Do
you think that business schoolsought to incorporate more AI
tools within the classroom andtherefore give students an
(16:05):
opportunity to sort ofexperiment in the academic
laboratory sort of setting?
Speaker 2 (16:11):
Yeah, Absolutely I don't.
I don't think we all know thatthis isn't going away.
It's becoming more and more apart of our day to day.
So what better way than havingit in the classroom where you
can, like you said, experiment?
I think it's funny.
I've already seen a little bitof the shift from maybe a year
ago where you know you look atthe syllabus of the class and it
(16:31):
just says like, please know,like using chat, gpt or any any
AI, to now my last class beinglike there are frameworks in
which you can use chat, gpt, andhere's how I encourage that and
it's like it's obviously.
It's not don't write your wholepaper, that don't have it.
Write your whole paper, but youcan lean on it as a source and
as long as you say like I usedAI or chat, gpt, uh, to work on
(16:55):
this, it's okay.
And so that was already.
We're seeing, I was already.
I was interested to see thatbecause I'm like that's the
first, because I had not seenthat previously and so it was
kind of cool.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
So that's interesting .
You know, as you were sayingthat, I was thinking to myself,
certainly from the highereducation standpoint.
You know we kind of went intothat no, you cannot use it to
sort of the other extreme.
Some of us were like, yeah,give it a try, see what happens.
And then we've kind of comeback to sort of the middle, as
you say, the frameworks.
(17:26):
If you use it.
This is how you use it withinthis particular area In terms of
the workplace.
Did your organization go aboutsort of putting those policies
out, or is it just been kind ofa wait and see?
Speaker 2 (17:43):
So early on, there was a little bit of a hey, this
is all very exciting, but weneed to implement policies that
make sure we're utilizing it inthe right manner, mostly being
we need to make sure we'reprotecting our data and not
using tools that may lead to ourproprietary data getting out
(18:04):
there.
So there was some concernsearly on, very briefly, as they
worked with the various partnersthat are out there to figure
out a system that would work forus.
So we do use Glean as our sortof like AI tool and we basically
now have free reign to use itas we need.
And we use, obviously, aicompanion with our Zoom calls
(18:24):
and Slack, and they're prettymuch everywhere.
All of our tools have some AIcomponent where we can lean on
it, for, like I said, eitherit's analysis, it's drafting
emails, it's creating workflows.
So, yeah, we definitely embraceit.
And then, furthermore, we'vedone the customer side, where
there's actually AI tools beingused to help draft orders or
(18:46):
improve the support experience.
We've been doing that a lotwith that too.
Speaker 1 (18:52):
Yeah, with this whole notion of really doing good
overall for the organization, Iwant to go back to this notion
of grad school and sort ofputting grad school on hold.
If someone's out there andthey're thinking about grad
school, what advice would yougive them?
Speaker 2 (19:10):
So the best, I think, piece of advice that I got when
I was thinking about it firstwas what is actually going to
happen if I get this degree.
Like am I going to learn?
Am I at a place right now whereI need this learning to further
myself?
Or, flip side, is my jobfulfilling enough and creating
(19:32):
enough of an opportunity for meto learn and grow that all I'd
be doing was just wasting, youknow, expanding my time,
stretching myself too thin sothat I'm now doing a worse,
doing a poorer job on the day today, and then also now
stretching myself in grad school.
And now I'm in my mid 30s and Iwill say I wish I had gone to
grad school a little bit earlier, because I do feel like I'm on
(19:52):
the older side for some of thegrad classes.
But, that being said, therewere very few times where I
would have wanted to walk awayfrom my job or take time away
from it because I was learningso much.
So I think once you're notlearning on the job or you're
stalling or feeling like you'restuck, then that's probably a
good idea, that maybe somethingneeds to change and that
probably could be, or mostlikely could be, going to grad
(20:15):
school.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
But possibly have some clarity as well.
Like why yes, just to go back,just to get the degree, to say
I'll have the degree, is onlygoing to get you so far, right.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
Exactly, and it also helps with what environment
you're in.
So Uber was not one for sharingresponsibility with the grad
program, so you weren'tencouraged to go to grad school.
If you're going to go to gradschool, that meant you're going
to quit your job and go forth.
But then I worked at Wayfairand that was a completely
different environment wherebeing in grad school was seen as
(20:46):
a positive thing.
It was seen as something thatmeant you were taking ownership
of your career.
It was seen as an opportunityto grow within the organization
that it would help you learnthings you needed to do to
become, you know, a seniormanager or director, ad.
So that was that was actuallywhat I was at Wayfair when I
started having theseconversations again, started
picking it back up and it was mymanager.
He said he was going through itand he said why have you
(21:09):
thought about it?
Because you clearly want togrow and learn and become a
bigger, better leader, so whynot go to grad school?
Speaker 1 (21:16):
Fantastic, I think that's it.
Why not right?
Why not just know the why?
I think that's key.
Well, one of the things that welike to ask on the Leaderproof
podcast is what would you tellthat eight-year-old self about
(21:36):
what's ahead?
Speaker 2 (21:39):
Oh man, I mean, at first I would probably say that
you have some really, reallyawesome times ahead of you, that
things are going to get really,really good, that there are
going to be a lot of stresses inyour life and you'll have to
deal with them, but overallthere's a lot of things to look
(22:00):
forward to, and so just enjoythem and just be ready and live
those moments, because oncethose moments are gone, you
don't get them back.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
Take the author up on the school that has the ocean
view, if for a little while.
Exactly yes, the decisionsdon't have to be permanent right
nope, and that's the other.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
I think that's another aspect, like don't be
afraid to fail.
Um, you know, it's just, therewill be bumps in the road and
there'll be, you know.
I think especially like lookingat career and career trajectory
and where I thought I was whenI was 21, 22, 22, entering the
workforce, thinking, you know, Ican do whatever I'm going to be
, I'm going to be a big time TVproducer, and three years later
(22:45):
I wasn't even working intelevision anymore and then it
was I'm going to, you know, makeit make be a massive force in
tech in Boston.
And you know that's still TBD,because here I am 10 years after
that and still chugging alongand trying to make my own path.
So yeah, like there are ups anddowns and you just kind of have
to roll with them.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
But the idea of like where you're going to be at one
point will probably shift andchange drastically, and that's
okay, I think that's the key,and I think one of the things
that strikes me about you isthat you want to be the best at
whatever you're doing.
It's that constant critique andthat constant questioning Do I
(23:27):
need this?
If so, why do I need it?
There's got to be a logic thereto some extent, but I think
that's one of the core valuesthat really has guided you up
until this point, and I can onlyimagine what's ahead.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
Like I said, I'm so excited to be done with the
program, not because it's theend of the road and I'm now
going to have all this free time, but also it's like what can I
do now that I've had thiseducation?
And now that it's behind me, Iget to actually fully implement
it?
And not that I've had thiseducation and now that it's
behind me, like I get toactually fully implement it.
And not that I'm encouragingpeople to always like work
really late, but there have beendays where I'm like, oh, I
(24:04):
really wish I could stay alittle later because I have,
like, on a roll, I'm gettingthings done and I'm like, oh, I
got to go to class, right, andthose will be those.
There'll be those days whereI'm like I'm going to be able to
get some really awesome stuffdone now because I don't have to
worry about going to class.
Also, it's going to mean thatI'm going to have more free time
, like I said, so I get to dothings that I've been putting
off and maybe go out on aTuesday night with my wife
(24:27):
because we haven't been able todo that.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
Yeah, maybe there's an answer right the competing
priorities will certainly changeover the course of time.
Competing priorities willcertainly change over the course
of time, but I suspect you'regoing to get right back at doing
something that's going to betime-consuming once again.
Yes, I'm very much planning.
That that's fantastic.
All right, Matt, thank you somuch for being on the show today
(24:51):
.
We really appreciate it andwish you all the best ahead.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
Thank you, dr Erwin.
It was a pleasure, and it'salways great talking with you,
so I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
Thank you all very much for joining us on yet
another exciting episode of theLeader Group podcast.
We want to thank NortheasternUniversity, swinburne University
, the Solotron Group and, ofcourse, jared Zamarowski, who
does all of our audio and makesus look and sound great.
Thank you all, have a great day.
Thank you.
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