December 15, 2024 • 33 mins
Explore the inspiring journey of Dr. Julia Ivy, an extraordinary educator, and international business strategist who transformed her life from a top management consultant in Eastern Europe to an internationally recognized leader in global strategies for businesses and individuals. Julia's story of choosing to shift her comfortable life back home to unknown opportunities and navigating a new life in America brings forth valuable lessons in open-mindedness, resilience, and strategy for businesses and anyone facing significant life changes.
Our conversation with Julia takes a deep dive into the evolution of personal and professional strategies in new markets. She shares her transition from a GROWTH-focused strategy, crucial for establishing her place in a new country, to an EDGE-focused one that leverages her unique skills and background. By questioning "what's next," Julia emphasizes the importance of adapting strategies to meet current needs and guiding students and professionals to align their goals with strategic actions. Her insights on creating and using the BE-EDGE method provide a roadmap for celebrating achievements while remaining agile in the face of new challenges.
Reflecting on legacy and personal positioning strategy themes, Julia discusses the sometimes anticlimactic nature of reaching significant milestones, such as earning two PhDs. We explore the metaphor of "unfreeze, act, refreeze" in leadership to acknowledge achievements and promote progress. This episode offers a vision of creating supportive environments where educated individuals from diverse backgrounds can capitalize on their unique skills and thrive as global talents. Listen in to be inspired by Julia's journey and her commitment to empowering the next generation of global leaders.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:16):
Hello and welcome to another edition of the Leader
Brew podcast.
I am Rick Arrowood and I'm yourhost today, once again.
You know I always say you'regetting ready for an exciting
interview, but today I just feeleven more excited because I get
to interview someone I'veworked alongside for a number of
(00:37):
years and I think you know somuch about.
The Leader Brew, of course, isfrom the classroom to the real
world and we want to learn aboutthose experiences.
And I was thinking earliertoday how so many times, once
you get out into the real world,the working world, we have a
tendency to just sort of seepeople, we say hello to them,
(01:01):
maybe we have meetings with them, but do we really ever get to
know their story?
So today is about learningabout Julia Ivey's story, who I
have come to know and have agreat friendship over the years
and I think you're going to findher story quite fascinating,
particularly our internationalstudent population.
(01:22):
So, julia, welcome to theLeader Brew, our international
student population.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
So, Julia, welcome to the Leader Brew.
Thank you so much for having me.
And very similar to yourintroduction of me, I do know
Rick for many years and webecome very close friends, so
I'm very honored to be invited.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Well, it's earlier in the, before we started taping
the broadcast.
Julia says I'll follow yourlead, and I quickly said to her
nope, I've always followed yourlead.
So you know, we've got thatmutual respect.
I mean, I've seen your work,obviously, both here in the US
as well as in Australia, andit's just one of those, you know
(01:59):
, really exciting things.
I have always wondered aboutyou when did you start?
Let's take you back to aclassroom.
Pick whichever classroom youwant to talk about and share
with the audience what that waslike.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
So we're talking about classroom.
Okay, so let's say the class.
What I am teaching right now,say is a class.
What I am teaching right now,and right now I am teaching
international business.
So which, for both undergradand graduate levels, and every
single class, and I teach inthis class, like for number of
(02:36):
years, every single class.
We help a real company to entera new market, to enter a new
market, and every single class.
I ask myself why we are helpingalways companies to enter a new
market.
But what about us?
Like when we like me, when Iwas ready to enter a new market
(03:01):
yes, as an international, leavemy own country and come to
another country there is no, Ididn't have any guidance.
I would say how to enter a newmarket For the companies.
We develop a lot Strategies,it's market entry mode and et
(03:23):
cetera, et cetera, et cetera,how we choose the right market
for us.
And I constantly tell mystudents that it's not about
which market is better, it'sabout which market is better for
you.
It's all about the fit, aboutthe feed.
So, starting from my classes,I'm here asking again and again
(03:51):
the same question what about us?
What is the most importantproject I want to do in my life?
Is it helping a particularcompany?
Of course, but honestly no,it's me, me, me, me.
I want to help myself to enterevery time a new market, and it
might be a foreign market, butalso, you know, when we are
(04:14):
changing careers, when we leaveone job and we ask ourselves
what is the new market for me,this is the same stuff.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
This is where I am right now.
So so, looking back, do youfeel like you sort of had this
amazing desire and excitementand quest for learning in a, as
you call it, a new market?
Was that it, and was it scary?
Speaker 2 (04:50):
So there are two questions here.
Did I have this passion andquest to learn about a new
market?
I would say yes and no.
Yes, I wanted to be global Like, I think, most of my life.
What I remember myself, uh,when it became possible again
(05:11):
being from soviet union, it justwas iron curtain, so it was no
other world available.
But when it's open, yes, I wascurious.
But no, I didn't know aboutwhich market.
America wasn't even in my zoneof interest.
I was, in general, wasinterested in being there.
(05:33):
The other question you asked wasscary.
Yeah, but it became scary whenI moved.
You know, when I was going tomove, I didn't even know how
unprepared I was to move.
For me, it was more like beingbrave, more like trying and
(05:55):
knowing how it works.
And I did exactly like what Ijust told you.
I got my green card by lottery.
At the same time.
I also told you, I got my greencard by lottery At the same
time.
I also consider it Canada.
I also consider it UK.
I also consider it what else?
No, I think UK, canada andAmerica.
(06:17):
But you know, america was thefirst, it was the winner.
It just gave me green card andI just like, okay, now we will
try.
And then I became scared when Ilearned how complicated it is
and how much time I was wastingbecause I didn't know all these
(06:41):
you know techniques that we aredoing for companies.
And this is what was a bummerfor me.
Kind of like looking back everytime in my classroom, back to
your first question.
Every time I feel like likedamn it, why I didn't do it for
(07:02):
myself 20 years ago, why I seeagain and again so many
internationals moving with noidea what they're doing and
we're all becoming fine, butwhat's the price?
And how much time we lose.
And are we fine or we are trueto ourselves?
(07:24):
This is the point.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
You know, as you're talking, I'm hearing echoes of
leadership, right?
So so much of what you and I dois teach leadership, and what
I'm hearing in your story isthat of a leader.
So, yes, you went through someuncertainties, challenges,
(07:52):
things along that line, butthere was something instilled
within you that now has takenthat power of uncertainty and
turned it into something thatpeople in your position can then
ripple, replicate to others,share with others, and I think,
(08:16):
for me, I think that is the coreof why are we on this earth,
right?
I think it's.
Ultimately, it's to help people, and the work that you do as a
result of what you went throughis genuinely helping others.
I mean, I see it in your socialmedia, right?
So I know I see it in.
Oftentimes we'll have studentsthat each of us know, and so I
(08:42):
just see, I see that leader thatdeveloped in you over the
course of time.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
Yeah, I mean, maybe I didn't absolutely First yes,
absolutely, I wanted to helpothers Did I become a leader?
I think I am kind of aleadership material from the
very beginning.
But you know, for me it's aboutbeing in control of what I'm
(09:08):
doing, of what I'm doing, andfeel this empowerment of that.
I'm in control of my life, thatI'm not following anybody's
directions.
I would say I consider them asvery highly respected
(09:29):
stakeholders but at the end ofthe day I can say thank you,
thank you, thank you, thank you.
This is what I'm doing being incontrol.
This is what I learned and thisis what I want.
People who are brave, as I wasbrave, and maybe even like too
(09:50):
brave sometimes, but it's good,I'm grateful to myself that I
did it, but I want them to makeit more, to feel more empowered,
I would say, to feel that theydon't have to become too much
American to become accepted inAmerica, american to become
accepted in America.
Because some period of time Iasked myself like, oh, I should
(10:14):
stop talking about where I'mfrom, I should stop telling
again and again kind of like, oh, but you look at how high, you
know how transportation systemcould be much, much better than
America, or health system couldbe much, much better in America,
or da da da.
So I have like a bunch ofexamples which I brought as my
(10:36):
background and some period oftime.
I kind of told myself, julia,shut up, you choose to be in
America, you are in America.
And I was told, by the way that, like hey, julia, are you
American or you are what?
Away, that like hey, julia, areyou american or you are what?
(10:58):
And now I arrived to thisempowerment of we call this
reverse innovation that if youare in control and you
appreciate your background,which might, which is background
to being from different country, background to be raised by a
military father, background tobe travel whatever countries,
(11:20):
but we know how to do inventoryof our background and, yes,
including that you know I'm fromBelarus.
Who cares about Belarus, totell the truth, you know, like I
do and people from Belarus do,or from Ukraine, right, but it's
not about Belarus-Ukraine, it'sabout the competences I gained
(11:44):
from this and how to make aninventory of these competences
and how to appreciate them, buthow to reshape them to become
relevant to new market.
So how not to be, you know,like chinese people who always
chinatown, or russian people whoare always in the brighton
(12:04):
beach.
No, it's not what I mean, but,the same time, not how to lose
yourself.
This is what I feel.
This is what I want to helppeople and the idea of reverse
innovation.
This is what I really like andI feel like, yeah, I do.
I can bring so much in Americabecause of my background.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
I love that you know now that you've been reflective
and you can sort of look backand see what characteristics
brought you to the point whereyou are today.
I'm curious from yourperspective, how do you handle
pacing yourself on the one hand,and genuinely wanting to just
(12:54):
take the newly arrived studentfrom wherever and just give them
everything you've got?
So you know, I guess thequestion is really more along
the lines of balance.
How do you balance that passionor do you balance the passion?
Speaker 2 (13:10):
I know the answer would be yes.
Strategic leadership right,this is what I'm passionate
about, about strategy.
You know, we startedconversations with this and I I
learned that in a particulartime of my life I have this
strategy of that strategy right.
So right now it's and you knowI always talk about what types
(13:33):
of personal strategies and, yes,when I just freshly arrived to
America, my strategy was I callthis positioning strategy.
I needed a job, I needed a job,I needed safety, 401k, health
benefits for my children and,yes, some income like
(13:56):
sustainable income.
I call this positioningstrategy.
But then, when I alreadyestablished myself and I kind of
got this basis covered, I askedmyself what's next?
And I kind of naturally movedto another strategy, which was
growth strategy.
(14:17):
I wanted to be back to, youknow, big deal as I was in my
country.
In my country, I was big deal,and I wasn't big deal in America
when I moved.
It's a new market, so I workedvery hard for these top
publications, all this game.
But then I asked myself, okay,what's next?
And now I am on thisedge-focused strategy where I
(14:41):
want to be me and each of us.
We can stop every moment when wefeel, asking what's next.
You know, when we feel that welike, okay, it's a new territory
, what's next?
Or I reach some level, what'snext?
Or I feel suffocating in thisjob, what's next?
(15:02):
Or I feel great anxiety becauseI don't know what.
Maybe I'm losing something inmy life.
What's next?
And every time, what's next?
I found this is my aha moment.
You have to stop.
And yet and you have to dostrategy work, exactly what we
do for the companies we have tostart with the challenge, like
(15:24):
what's the problem?
What, what, what?
Why are you unhappy?
What's the challenge then?
To define your uh, your guidingprinciple, like what's the game
I'm playing right now for thenext period of time?
It might be like a year, itmight be three years, it might
be two months.
What's the game I'm playingright now?
(15:44):
And then to reshape yourstrategy.
And this is really helps me toface myself.
I know what I'm doing right now.
I'm not trying to do growth,because it's not where I am
right now, and I'm not trying todo position.
You know my job is quite secureand you know, most important,
(16:05):
I'm secure.
You know like even my jobdecides that they don't need me.
You know it means that I canfind easily another job.
But what I want to do, I want tobe edge-focused.
Edge-focused which meanscombining all my unique skills
yes, my psychology backgroundyes, my strategy background yes,
(16:26):
my Eastern European backgroundyes, my mother of two background
yes, my et cetera, et ceterabackground to my establishing my
own space in this market andthis is my pace.
So, answering your question,how I help students, I did this
mistake and pass.
(16:47):
I did, and I learned from this.
I honestly believe that all thestudents, all internationals,
especially masters, masterstudents they all so want to be
also in an edge focus strategy.
Like me, right, it was wrong,wrong of me, wrong.
And now.
Then I developed this system offour types of strategies and
(17:10):
now I just I look at some ofthem and I understand they need
a job.
This person, he needs a job.
Stop Julia to talk about agegrowth.
This is what is his goal fornow.
But she might want to begrowing like crazy.
(17:31):
That's why she's in America.
But that person one of myfavorites, she would be, or he
would be, self-focused, whichmeans there are four again
growth, position, edge and self,self.
The guy recently I talked withhim.
He came from China.
Parents paid for his undergrad.
(17:53):
He was very good.
He never made any choices inhis life.
He finished there.
Parents told him why wouldn'tyou go to America and get a
fancy degree?
He said, okay, why not?
And he's in America finishinghis degree.
And I asked what is thechallenge?
And he's just like thechallenge is to shut them up.
(18:14):
You know, I don't want to do anycareer, I don't want to make
any money, I want to keep havingmy amazing life, which is a
self-focused strategy.
And you know my job to helpeach of them in their strategies
.
Somebody who wants to get a jobposition focused I'm here for
them.
Somebody who wants to get a jobposition focused I'm here for
them.
Somebody who wants to grow it'stotally different strategy.
(18:37):
I'm there for them.
And somebody who wants to beself-focused.
I'm not judgmental, I'm justlike okay, baby, this is what
you do.
You do stakeholder engagement.
This is a self-focus.
This is how I pace myself.
So your question has to.
You know, like I answered firsthow I pace myself, I just focus
on one strategy at a time how Ihelp students.
(18:58):
I try to figure out what istheir strategy, each of them and
helping them in whatever theyneed at this time, this period
of time.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
Yeah, I think that's fantastic, but I want to add a
third question to you personallyhow do you celebrate the wins?
So where I'm positioning thatwhen I look back at your life
and your story?
Right, you've accomplishedquite a bit when you really look
at it.
You look at your two doctoraldegrees, dr Dr Julia Ivey.
(19:33):
You look at your teachingrecord.
You look at your B-Edge launch.
It's a terrific organizationand so many, of course, personal
things in your life.
But how do you celebrate thosewins and what advice would you
give to someone who is, you know, going through that process?
(19:53):
Just a thing called life?
Speaker 2 (19:58):
You know like I should be better.
So you got me and it's mypersonality is the moment I
reach some area.
You know, like I remember that,like 40 years ago somebody
asked me and I said, like youknow like I run, run, run, run,
(20:18):
run, run, run run.
Then I look back and nobodyelse here.
I'm so far ahead of anybody whostarted to run.
You know this race with me andI am so much already far, far,
farther than all of them.
And then it becomes boring forme and I start a new run.
(20:40):
But it's now how I celebrate, Ithink, based on people who I see
the change I made in them.
It's, for me, so rewarding.
But how I celebrate my ownachievements, maybe I should be
better at this.
Sometimes I ask myself forGod's sake, yeah, julia, two
(21:04):
PhDs.
Yeah, you came to America withage of 36 with two children and
a husband who was a nuclearphysicist researcher which means
unemployable if you are not anAmerican citizen.
And look at you right nowexecutive professor, top school,
you know, list of publication,book published, etc.
(21:28):
Like I should invent some kindof better way to celebrate.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
Well, you know, I think we all do, and I think
that's where, when it comes tofaculty, in particular, those
who are not transactional we'remore transformational, and so we
spend our whole day trying toget into this transformational
mode of anyone that will listento us.
We go through our semesters, wedo our work and we do it to the
(21:59):
very best of our ability, andthen we go home, we submit the
grades and then what I learnedmany, many years ago, no matter
what it was, whatever Iaccomplished, I would celebrate
it, and in the early days, themost that meant was a Snickers
bar.
That's about all I could afford.
But I would eat that Snickersbar slowly and say you know what
(22:24):
?
You did it.
You're not there yet.
That was always a gnawing partof me.
I'm not there yet.
Therefore, I think that'sreally what motivates me to keep
going and keep doing and keepdreaming.
But do think, you know,stopping um and celebrating I
think is is.
It's a hard thing to do,because I do think we get so
(22:46):
busy and we get so caught up onthe main objective that I do
think it is um, it is keyabsolutely, and you know, you
said it so well and actually wedo teach in leadership, right,
we change leadership.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
Defreezing, refreezing changes and
defreezing we have to refreezeagain must be frozen just to
stop, to celebrate, to kind oflike, say like, okay, if I
accomplished the first stage,now I need to break, have a
break and what is my next stage?
And yes, it's my uh, it's, it'sit's my shortage that I must be
(23:23):
back.
You know, like uh, to stop andto celebrate.
I travel a lot.
This is my uh rewards.
You know, like I, I go and I Idon't work when I travel
honestly and I travel lot.
So maybe this is my celebration, but I must be better.
I agree with you.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
Lewins was right Absolutely Unfreeze, refreeze,
freeze.
Let's talk about sort of abroader issue and that of legacy
.
So you know, I think whathappens sometimes is we get to a
certain part in our career andwe can look back and sure, I can
tell you, I've had thousands ofstudents and graded thousands
(24:05):
of papers and givenrecommendation letters and all
that, but what do you see as thejulia ivy legacy?
Speaker 2 (24:16):
oh, it's amazing question.
That's why, maybe, I startedthis bh.
You know, like, yeah, I'm onthe stage of my life and my
career that I achievedeverything what I uh told you
know I wanted.
I remember that in 2009, when Ium got my american citizenship
(24:37):
and at the same month I got mytenure a tenure professor and I
just was like, oh, so what?
Now?
Just to die or to what?
And I was in my 40s.
But then I started.
Then I moved to this edge focus,which is the idea, is okay,
(25:00):
look at what you cherish doing,and for me it's a psychology and
strategy and beinginternational.
So it's my three things andother people would have their
three things.
You know, there are manyinternationals and psychology,
there are many internationals.
And strategy, there are manyinternationals and strategists.
(25:20):
But my weird combination, beingfrom a state-controlled economy
, from emerging economy, being,you know, degree psychology,
degree strategist it's me,unique me, and you have totally
unique you, you know.
So then I was like, okay, whatis my legacy?
My legacy, I guess, toestablish a place.
(25:42):
I even envisioned this.
It's almost like a spacestation or like island where all
people like me, educatedforeigners, can come at the
beginning, at the one entranceand then they follow from one
station to another and they do.
(26:03):
Okay, what is my strategy, whatis my?
You know, how do I connect withothers, how do I prove my value
, how do I send the message.
And then again, thank you to mypartners which were like, oh,
what I should know, what I wouldrather do and develop this as a
whole holistic universe.
(26:24):
It's like it's like the, youknow, lord of the Rings it was
just new universe or HarryPotter new universe.
This is what I want to be,universe which I develop, which
(26:45):
I developed, where every studentof us or every, not student of
us, but somebody who is brave tomove to a new territory would
not feel lonely, as I used tosometimes feel.
Not to feel that theyconstantly have to prove that
their previous degree from theircountry is also good, not, they
feel that their accent, myaccent, makes you kind of like
(27:10):
second class citizen, becauseevery single time they ask where
are you from?
It's just like oh.
It's the same as ask people whoare not white like, oh, what
percentage of you are white,what percentage of you are not
white?
Just because of your curiosity.
And it's like constantlyproving yourself.
So I want people come to thisisland, to this space station,
(27:36):
to this platform, to this placefrom the beginning, be with us a
year while doing their masterdegrees, bachelor degrees or
just been raising their children, whatever they do, and in a
year, becoming a powerhouse andsaying this is who I am, this is
why I am powerful, this is howI am powerful, this is how I am
(28:01):
in control of my life, this iswhat I bring with me to this
country, this is how I can provethat what I bring generates
actually value, and this is howI can be professionally happy.
So this would be my legacy.
If I establish this universeyou know like do this
(28:23):
established universe with thisNorth of the Ring or Harry
Potter or so many then I wouldbe ready to die.
Not yet.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
Yeah, that's all right.
So I think that's fantastic.
It's certainly.
You articulated a beautifulblueprint for this universe.
I want to go to it.
Of course, Let me in.
I want to come and visit, but Isee where you're going with
that and I think that's veryadmirable.
It's your life work, and Ithink that's what's important.
(28:57):
One of the things that wealways ask on the Leader Brew is
this question, which is whatwould you tell the
eight-year-old about what'sahead?
Sometimes people will say that,in your case, maybe the
eight-year-old from Belarus,maybe the eight-year-old from
America, wherever that may be,what would you say is ahead?
Speaker 2 (29:20):
America, wherever that may be, what would you say
is ahead?
Don't be defined by the countryyou were born.
You know, like, look at Belarusright now.
It's a dictatorship.
Kids who are born right now,like, who are eight years old
right now in Belarus, I don'twant them to be defined by this
(29:42):
because you know, presidentscome and leave, even like
president like Lukashenko, whohas 30 years, they still will
leave.
They will die sooner or later.
You know, and it will changeit's.
You are in control, the dooralways somehow open.
You know, even in Soviet Union,it's still the door is open and
(30:07):
try to.
You know, be always, know thatyou are in.
You know, like, you have yourwheel in your car.
It might be your car of eightyears old, your bicycle, then it
would be your first car.
It might be whatever it is thatyou are driving.
(30:28):
Do not allow the country ofyours to define who you are.
This is your benefit, this isyour asset.
You must play for your benefits, but it's not who you are.
You are so much better, so muchbigger than the country you are
born.
I want to say the same peoplein America Don't let this
(30:51):
country define who you are.
You decide America.
Good for you, good choice.
If you decide that maybe NewZealand is your choice, you know
this is your choice.
So no parents, no countrydefine who you are.
You define who you are.
Speaker 1 (31:07):
That's absolutely wonderful and I absolutely agree
with you 100%.
Just be you, you know, workwith what you have been given
and make it even better.
Speaker 2 (31:19):
And one challenge per time.
I'm so sorry for interruptingthis is no, not fine you just
touch very something importantin in me.
I mistakes I made in past and Isee many people makes mistakes.
They make like this grande,grande strategy with capitalized
(31:39):
S, just like I see here, and Isee myself like 30 years.
It's such a BS.
Strategy is moving,understanding your challenge
right now and developing yourpath to the solution which you
can see, because when you cometo that point it will be next
(32:01):
challenge and this is a goodstrategy.
Strategies doesn't mean tohaving your plan for 30 years.
It's a bad strategy.
It's a Soviet Union strategy.
The good strategy is to havingyour core, your basic principles
, your guiding principle, andjust be you and don't try to
(32:24):
solve all the problems at thesame time.
You know right now, you thinkabout what is your next job.
This is your strategy.
Next time it would be.
You know which city you shouldlive.
This would be the next one.
Don't try to solve all theproblems at the same time and
(32:46):
this is exactly what makes youstrategic and what makes you in
control.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
Quite, frankly.
That's why, as kids, we startoff walking, not running.
Our baby steps are walking,they're not running, and it's a
good I think it's a very goodreminder.
Julia, thank you so much foryour time today.
I look forward to, of course,our continued friendship and
it's just really it's been apleasure having you on the show.
(33:13):
I'd like to thank NortheasternUniversity and Swinburne
University as our participatinguniversities for the Leader Brew
and also our sponsor, solitonTechnologies.
So thank you and have a greatday.
Thank you.
Hello and welcome to another edition of the Leader
Brew podcast.
I am Rick Arrowood and I'm yourhost today, once again.
You know I always say you'regetting ready for an exciting
interview, but today I just feeleven more excited because I get
to interview someone I'veworked alongside for a number of
(00:37):
years and I think you know somuch about.
The Leader Brew, of course, isfrom the classroom to the real
world and we want to learn aboutthose experiences.
And I was thinking earliertoday how so many times, once
you get out into the real world,the working world, we have a
tendency to just sort of seepeople, we say hello to them,
(01:01):
maybe we have meetings with them, but do we really ever get to
know their story?
So today is about learningabout Julia Ivey's story, who I
have come to know and have agreat friendship over the years
and I think you're going to findher story quite fascinating,
particularly our internationalstudent population.
(01:22):
So, julia, welcome to theLeader Brew, our international
student population.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
So, Julia, welcome to the Leader Brew.
Thank you so much for having me.
And very similar to yourintroduction of me, I do know
Rick for many years and webecome very close friends, so
I'm very honored to be invited.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Well, it's earlier in the, before we started taping
the broadcast.
Julia says I'll follow yourlead, and I quickly said to her
nope, I've always followed yourlead.
So you know, we've got thatmutual respect.
I mean, I've seen your work,obviously, both here in the US
as well as in Australia, andit's just one of those, you know
(01:59):
, really exciting things.
I have always wondered aboutyou when did you start?
Let's take you back to aclassroom.
Pick whichever classroom youwant to talk about and share
with the audience what that waslike.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
So we're talking about classroom.
Okay, so let's say the class.
What I am teaching right now,say is a class.
What I am teaching right now,and right now I am teaching
international business.
So which, for both undergradand graduate levels, and every
single class, and I teach inthis class, like for number of
(02:36):
years, every single class.
We help a real company to entera new market, to enter a new
market, and every single class.
I ask myself why we are helpingalways companies to enter a new
market.
But what about us?
Like when we like me, when Iwas ready to enter a new market
(03:01):
yes, as an international, leavemy own country and come to
another country there is no, Ididn't have any guidance.
I would say how to enter a newmarket For the companies.
We develop a lot Strategies,it's market entry mode and et
(03:23):
cetera, et cetera, et cetera,how we choose the right market
for us.
And I constantly tell mystudents that it's not about
which market is better, it'sabout which market is better for
you.
It's all about the fit, aboutthe feed.
So, starting from my classes,I'm here asking again and again
(03:51):
the same question what about us?
What is the most importantproject I want to do in my life?
Is it helping a particularcompany?
Of course, but honestly no,it's me, me, me, me.
I want to help myself to enterevery time a new market, and it
might be a foreign market, butalso, you know, when we are
(04:14):
changing careers, when we leaveone job and we ask ourselves
what is the new market for me,this is the same stuff.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
This is where I am right now.
So so, looking back, do youfeel like you sort of had this
amazing desire and excitementand quest for learning in a, as
you call it, a new market?
Was that it, and was it scary?
Speaker 2 (04:50):
So there are two questions here.
Did I have this passion andquest to learn about a new
market?
I would say yes and no.
Yes, I wanted to be global Like, I think, most of my life.
What I remember myself, uh,when it became possible again
(05:11):
being from soviet union, it justwas iron curtain, so it was no
other world available.
But when it's open, yes, I wascurious.
But no, I didn't know aboutwhich market.
America wasn't even in my zoneof interest.
I was, in general, wasinterested in being there.
(05:33):
The other question you asked wasscary.
Yeah, but it became scary whenI moved.
You know, when I was going tomove, I didn't even know how
unprepared I was to move.
For me, it was more like beingbrave, more like trying and
(05:55):
knowing how it works.
And I did exactly like what Ijust told you.
I got my green card by lottery.
At the same time.
I also told you, I got my greencard by lottery At the same
time.
I also consider it Canada.
I also consider it UK.
I also consider it what else?
No, I think UK, canada andAmerica.
(06:17):
But you know, america was thefirst, it was the winner.
It just gave me green card andI just like, okay, now we will
try.
And then I became scared when Ilearned how complicated it is
and how much time I was wastingbecause I didn't know all these
(06:41):
you know techniques that we aredoing for companies.
And this is what was a bummerfor me.
Kind of like looking back everytime in my classroom, back to
your first question.
Every time I feel like likedamn it, why I didn't do it for
(07:02):
myself 20 years ago, why I seeagain and again so many
internationals moving with noidea what they're doing and
we're all becoming fine, butwhat's the price?
And how much time we lose.
And are we fine or we are trueto ourselves?
(07:24):
This is the point.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
You know, as you're talking, I'm hearing echoes of
leadership, right?
So so much of what you and I dois teach leadership, and what
I'm hearing in your story isthat of a leader.
So, yes, you went through someuncertainties, challenges,
(07:52):
things along that line, butthere was something instilled
within you that now has takenthat power of uncertainty and
turned it into something thatpeople in your position can then
ripple, replicate to others,share with others, and I think,
(08:16):
for me, I think that is the coreof why are we on this earth,
right?
I think it's.
Ultimately, it's to help people, and the work that you do as a
result of what you went throughis genuinely helping others.
I mean, I see it in your socialmedia, right?
So I know I see it in.
Oftentimes we'll have studentsthat each of us know, and so I
(08:42):
just see, I see that leader thatdeveloped in you over the
course of time.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
Yeah, I mean, maybe I didn't absolutely First yes,
absolutely, I wanted to helpothers Did I become a leader?
I think I am kind of aleadership material from the
very beginning.
But you know, for me it's aboutbeing in control of what I'm
(09:08):
doing, of what I'm doing, andfeel this empowerment of that.
I'm in control of my life, thatI'm not following anybody's
directions.
I would say I consider them asvery highly respected
(09:29):
stakeholders but at the end ofthe day I can say thank you,
thank you, thank you, thank you.
This is what I'm doing being incontrol.
This is what I learned and thisis what I want.
People who are brave, as I wasbrave, and maybe even like too
(09:50):
brave sometimes, but it's good,I'm grateful to myself that I
did it, but I want them to makeit more, to feel more empowered,
I would say, to feel that theydon't have to become too much
American to become accepted inAmerica, american to become
accepted in America.
Because some period of time Iasked myself like, oh, I should
(10:14):
stop talking about where I'mfrom, I should stop telling
again and again kind of like, oh, but you look at how high, you
know how transportation systemcould be much, much better than
America, or health system couldbe much, much better in America,
or da da da.
So I have like a bunch ofexamples which I brought as my
(10:36):
background and some period oftime.
I kind of told myself, julia,shut up, you choose to be in
America, you are in America.
And I was told, by the way that, like hey, julia, are you
American or you are what?
Away, that like hey, julia, areyou american or you are what?
(10:58):
And now I arrived to thisempowerment of we call this
reverse innovation that if youare in control and you
appreciate your background,which might, which is background
to being from different country, background to be raised by a
military father, background tobe travel whatever countries,
(11:20):
but we know how to do inventoryof our background and, yes,
including that you know I'm fromBelarus.
Who cares about Belarus, totell the truth, you know, like I
do and people from Belarus do,or from Ukraine, right, but it's
not about Belarus-Ukraine, it'sabout the competences I gained
(11:44):
from this and how to make aninventory of these competences
and how to appreciate them, buthow to reshape them to become
relevant to new market.
So how not to be, you know,like chinese people who always
chinatown, or russian people whoare always in the brighton
(12:04):
beach.
No, it's not what I mean, but,the same time, not how to lose
yourself.
This is what I feel.
This is what I want to helppeople and the idea of reverse
innovation.
This is what I really like andI feel like, yeah, I do.
I can bring so much in Americabecause of my background.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
I love that you know now that you've been reflective
and you can sort of look backand see what characteristics
brought you to the point whereyou are today.
I'm curious from yourperspective, how do you handle
pacing yourself on the one hand,and genuinely wanting to just
(12:54):
take the newly arrived studentfrom wherever and just give them
everything you've got?
So you know, I guess thequestion is really more along
the lines of balance.
How do you balance that passionor do you balance the passion?
Speaker 2 (13:10):
I know the answer would be yes.
Strategic leadership right,this is what I'm passionate
about, about strategy.
You know, we startedconversations with this and I I
learned that in a particulartime of my life I have this
strategy of that strategy right.
So right now it's and you knowI always talk about what types
(13:33):
of personal strategies and, yes,when I just freshly arrived to
America, my strategy was I callthis positioning strategy.
I needed a job, I needed a job,I needed safety, 401k, health
benefits for my children and,yes, some income like
(13:56):
sustainable income.
I call this positioningstrategy.
But then, when I alreadyestablished myself and I kind of
got this basis covered, I askedmyself what's next?
And I kind of naturally movedto another strategy, which was
growth strategy.
(14:17):
I wanted to be back to, youknow, big deal as I was in my
country.
In my country, I was big deal,and I wasn't big deal in America
when I moved.
It's a new market, so I workedvery hard for these top
publications, all this game.
But then I asked myself, okay,what's next?
And now I am on thisedge-focused strategy where I
(14:41):
want to be me and each of us.
We can stop every moment when wefeel, asking what's next.
You know, when we feel that welike, okay, it's a new territory
, what's next?
Or I reach some level, what'snext?
Or I feel suffocating in thisjob, what's next?
(15:02):
Or I feel great anxiety becauseI don't know what.
Maybe I'm losing something inmy life.
What's next?
And every time, what's next?
I found this is my aha moment.
You have to stop.
And yet and you have to dostrategy work, exactly what we
do for the companies we have tostart with the challenge, like
(15:24):
what's the problem?
What, what, what?
Why are you unhappy?
What's the challenge then?
To define your uh, your guidingprinciple, like what's the game
I'm playing right now for thenext period of time?
It might be like a year, itmight be three years, it might
be two months.
What's the game I'm playingright now?
(15:44):
And then to reshape yourstrategy.
And this is really helps me toface myself.
I know what I'm doing right now.
I'm not trying to do growth,because it's not where I am
right now, and I'm not trying todo position.
You know my job is quite secureand you know, most important,
(16:05):
I'm secure.
You know like even my jobdecides that they don't need me.
You know it means that I canfind easily another job.
But what I want to do, I want tobe edge-focused.
Edge-focused which meanscombining all my unique skills
yes, my psychology backgroundyes, my strategy background yes,
(16:26):
my Eastern European backgroundyes, my mother of two background
yes, my et cetera, et ceterabackground to my establishing my
own space in this market andthis is my pace.
So, answering your question,how I help students, I did this
mistake and pass.
(16:47):
I did, and I learned from this.
I honestly believe that all thestudents, all internationals,
especially masters, masterstudents they all so want to be
also in an edge focus strategy.
Like me, right, it was wrong,wrong of me, wrong.
And now.
Then I developed this system offour types of strategies and
(17:10):
now I just I look at some ofthem and I understand they need
a job.
This person, he needs a job.
Stop Julia to talk about agegrowth.
This is what is his goal fornow.
But she might want to begrowing like crazy.
(17:31):
That's why she's in America.
But that person one of myfavorites, she would be, or he
would be, self-focused, whichmeans there are four again
growth, position, edge and self,self.
The guy recently I talked withhim.
He came from China.
Parents paid for his undergrad.
(17:53):
He was very good.
He never made any choices inhis life.
He finished there.
Parents told him why wouldn'tyou go to America and get a
fancy degree?
He said, okay, why not?
And he's in America finishinghis degree.
And I asked what is thechallenge?
And he's just like thechallenge is to shut them up.
(18:14):
You know, I don't want to do anycareer, I don't want to make
any money, I want to keep havingmy amazing life, which is a
self-focused strategy.
And you know my job to helpeach of them in their strategies
.
Somebody who wants to get a jobposition focused I'm here for
them.
Somebody who wants to get a jobposition focused I'm here for
them.
Somebody who wants to grow it'stotally different strategy.
(18:37):
I'm there for them.
And somebody who wants to beself-focused.
I'm not judgmental, I'm justlike okay, baby, this is what
you do.
You do stakeholder engagement.
This is a self-focus.
This is how I pace myself.
So your question has to.
You know, like I answered firsthow I pace myself, I just focus
on one strategy at a time how Ihelp students.
(18:58):
I try to figure out what istheir strategy, each of them and
helping them in whatever theyneed at this time, this period
of time.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
Yeah, I think that's fantastic, but I want to add a
third question to you personallyhow do you celebrate the wins?
So where I'm positioning thatwhen I look back at your life
and your story?
Right, you've accomplishedquite a bit when you really look
at it.
You look at your two doctoraldegrees, dr Dr Julia Ivey.
(19:33):
You look at your teachingrecord.
You look at your B-Edge launch.
It's a terrific organizationand so many, of course, personal
things in your life.
But how do you celebrate thosewins and what advice would you
give to someone who is, you know, going through that process?
(19:53):
Just a thing called life?
Speaker 2 (19:58):
You know like I should be better.
So you got me and it's mypersonality is the moment I
reach some area.
You know, like I remember that,like 40 years ago somebody
asked me and I said, like youknow like I run, run, run, run,
(20:18):
run, run, run run.
Then I look back and nobodyelse here.
I'm so far ahead of anybody whostarted to run.
You know this race with me andI am so much already far, far,
farther than all of them.
And then it becomes boring forme and I start a new run.
(20:40):
But it's now how I celebrate, Ithink, based on people who I see
the change I made in them.
It's, for me, so rewarding.
But how I celebrate my ownachievements, maybe I should be
better at this.
Sometimes I ask myself forGod's sake, yeah, julia, two
(21:04):
PhDs.
Yeah, you came to America withage of 36 with two children and
a husband who was a nuclearphysicist researcher which means
unemployable if you are not anAmerican citizen.
And look at you right nowexecutive professor, top school,
you know, list of publication,book published, etc.
(21:28):
Like I should invent some kindof better way to celebrate.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
Well, you know, I think we all do, and I think
that's where, when it comes tofaculty, in particular, those
who are not transactional we'remore transformational, and so we
spend our whole day trying toget into this transformational
mode of anyone that will listento us.
We go through our semesters, wedo our work and we do it to the
(21:59):
very best of our ability, andthen we go home, we submit the
grades and then what I learnedmany, many years ago, no matter
what it was, whatever Iaccomplished, I would celebrate
it, and in the early days, themost that meant was a Snickers
bar.
That's about all I could afford.
But I would eat that Snickersbar slowly and say you know what
(22:24):
?
You did it.
You're not there yet.
That was always a gnawing partof me.
I'm not there yet.
Therefore, I think that'sreally what motivates me to keep
going and keep doing and keepdreaming.
But do think, you know,stopping um and celebrating I
think is is.
It's a hard thing to do,because I do think we get so
(22:46):
busy and we get so caught up onthe main objective that I do
think it is um, it is keyabsolutely, and you know, you
said it so well and actually wedo teach in leadership, right,
we change leadership.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
Defreezing, refreezing changes and
defreezing we have to refreezeagain must be frozen just to
stop, to celebrate, to kind oflike, say like, okay, if I
accomplished the first stage,now I need to break, have a
break and what is my next stage?
And yes, it's my uh, it's, it'sit's my shortage that I must be
(23:23):
back.
You know, like uh, to stop andto celebrate.
I travel a lot.
This is my uh rewards.
You know, like I, I go and I Idon't work when I travel
honestly and I travel lot.
So maybe this is my celebration, but I must be better.
I agree with you.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
Lewins was right Absolutely Unfreeze, refreeze,
freeze.
Let's talk about sort of abroader issue and that of legacy
.
So you know, I think whathappens sometimes is we get to a
certain part in our career andwe can look back and sure, I can
tell you, I've had thousands ofstudents and graded thousands
(24:05):
of papers and givenrecommendation letters and all
that, but what do you see as thejulia ivy legacy?
Speaker 2 (24:16):
oh, it's amazing question.
That's why, maybe, I startedthis bh.
You know, like, yeah, I'm onthe stage of my life and my
career that I achievedeverything what I uh told you
know I wanted.
I remember that in 2009, when Ium got my american citizenship
(24:37):
and at the same month I got mytenure a tenure professor and I
just was like, oh, so what?
Now?
Just to die or to what?
And I was in my 40s.
But then I started.
Then I moved to this edge focus,which is the idea, is okay,
(25:00):
look at what you cherish doing,and for me it's a psychology and
strategy and beinginternational.
So it's my three things andother people would have their
three things.
You know, there are manyinternationals and psychology,
there are many internationals.
And strategy, there are manyinternationals and strategists.
(25:20):
But my weird combination, beingfrom a state-controlled economy
, from emerging economy, being,you know, degree psychology,
degree strategist it's me,unique me, and you have totally
unique you, you know.
So then I was like, okay, whatis my legacy?
My legacy, I guess, toestablish a place.
(25:42):
I even envisioned this.
It's almost like a spacestation or like island where all
people like me, educatedforeigners, can come at the
beginning, at the one entranceand then they follow from one
station to another and they do.
(26:03):
Okay, what is my strategy, whatis my?
You know, how do I connect withothers, how do I prove my value
, how do I send the message.
And then again, thank you to mypartners which were like, oh,
what I should know, what I wouldrather do and develop this as a
whole holistic universe.
(26:24):
It's like it's like the, youknow, lord of the Rings it was
just new universe or HarryPotter new universe.
This is what I want to be,universe which I develop, which
(26:45):
I developed, where every studentof us or every, not student of
us, but somebody who is brave tomove to a new territory would
not feel lonely, as I used tosometimes feel.
Not to feel that theyconstantly have to prove that
their previous degree from theircountry is also good, not, they
feel that their accent, myaccent, makes you kind of like
(27:10):
second class citizen, becauseevery single time they ask where
are you from?
It's just like oh.
It's the same as ask people whoare not white like, oh, what
percentage of you are white,what percentage of you are not
white?
Just because of your curiosity.
And it's like constantlyproving yourself.
So I want people come to thisisland, to this space station,
(27:36):
to this platform, to this placefrom the beginning, be with us a
year while doing their masterdegrees, bachelor degrees or
just been raising their children, whatever they do, and in a
year, becoming a powerhouse andsaying this is who I am, this is
why I am powerful, this is howI am powerful, this is how I am
(28:01):
in control of my life, this iswhat I bring with me to this
country, this is how I can provethat what I bring generates
actually value, and this is howI can be professionally happy.
So this would be my legacy.
If I establish this universeyou know like do this
(28:23):
established universe with thisNorth of the Ring or Harry
Potter or so many then I wouldbe ready to die.
Not yet.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
Yeah, that's all right.
So I think that's fantastic.
It's certainly.
You articulated a beautifulblueprint for this universe.
I want to go to it.
Of course, Let me in.
I want to come and visit, but Isee where you're going with
that and I think that's veryadmirable.
It's your life work, and Ithink that's what's important.
(28:57):
One of the things that wealways ask on the Leader Brew is
this question, which is whatwould you tell the
eight-year-old about what'sahead?
Sometimes people will say that,in your case, maybe the
eight-year-old from Belarus,maybe the eight-year-old from
America, wherever that may be,what would you say is ahead?
Speaker 2 (29:20):
America, wherever that may be, what would you say
is ahead?
Don't be defined by the countryyou were born.
You know, like, look at Belarusright now.
It's a dictatorship.
Kids who are born right now,like, who are eight years old
right now in Belarus, I don'twant them to be defined by this
(29:42):
because you know, presidentscome and leave, even like
president like Lukashenko, whohas 30 years, they still will
leave.
They will die sooner or later.
You know, and it will changeit's.
You are in control, the dooralways somehow open.
You know, even in Soviet Union,it's still the door is open and
(30:07):
try to.
You know, be always, know thatyou are in.
You know, like, you have yourwheel in your car.
It might be your car of eightyears old, your bicycle, then it
would be your first car.
It might be whatever it is thatyou are driving.
(30:28):
Do not allow the country ofyours to define who you are.
This is your benefit, this isyour asset.
You must play for your benefits, but it's not who you are.
You are so much better, so muchbigger than the country you are
born.
I want to say the same peoplein America Don't let this
(30:51):
country define who you are.
You decide America.
Good for you, good choice.
If you decide that maybe NewZealand is your choice, you know
this is your choice.
So no parents, no countrydefine who you are.
You define who you are.
Speaker 1 (31:07):
That's absolutely wonderful and I absolutely agree
with you 100%.
Just be you, you know, workwith what you have been given
and make it even better.
Speaker 2 (31:19):
And one challenge per time.
I'm so sorry for interruptingthis is no, not fine you just
touch very something importantin in me.
I mistakes I made in past and Isee many people makes mistakes.
They make like this grande,grande strategy with capitalized
(31:39):
S, just like I see here, and Isee myself like 30 years.
It's such a BS.
Strategy is moving,understanding your challenge
right now and developing yourpath to the solution which you
can see, because when you cometo that point it will be next
(32:01):
challenge and this is a goodstrategy.
Strategies doesn't mean tohaving your plan for 30 years.
It's a bad strategy.
It's a Soviet Union strategy.
The good strategy is to havingyour core, your basic principles
, your guiding principle, andjust be you and don't try to
(32:24):
solve all the problems at thesame time.
You know right now, you thinkabout what is your next job.
This is your strategy.
Next time it would be.
You know which city you shouldlive.
This would be the next one.
Don't try to solve all theproblems at the same time and
(32:46):
this is exactly what makes youstrategic and what makes you in
control.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
Quite, frankly.
That's why, as kids, we startoff walking, not running.
Our baby steps are walking,they're not running, and it's a
good I think it's a very goodreminder.
Julia, thank you so much foryour time today.
I look forward to, of course,our continued friendship and
it's just really it's been apleasure having you on the show.
(33:13):
I'd like to thank NortheasternUniversity and Swinburne
University as our participatinguniversities for the Leader Brew
and also our sponsor, solitonTechnologies.
So thank you and have a greatday.
Thank you.
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