October 1, 2024 • 44 mins
Navigating relationships with adult children requires allowing space for growth while upholding biblical values. Parents must continue to guide their children with respect, responsibility, and love, even as their roles evolve.
Navigating relationships with adult children is a unique stage in life. Ray, E.Z., Mark., and Oscar share their perspectives on this issue, starting with the fact that you no longer have the same authority but still play a vital role. Mark, having heard a preacher’s advice, tells his adult children they are always welcome home for holidays and special occasions but are not expected to come. The absence of expectations can sometimes draw people closer. Putting pressure on relationships can make things awkward. Oscar, who isn’t quite there with his own children but mentors young adults, often hears their hesitation in stepping into adulthood. He encourages them to recognize the blessing of having Christian parents that care, noting that honoring your parents is commanded by God. He emphasizes that respecting parents isn’t about their perfection but rather honoring the office of parenthood.
Getting children to value honoring their parents begins with early teachings of the fear of the Lord. When children grow in their love for God, they will honor their parents out of obedience to His word. For young children, parents should be diligent in correcting disrespect right away, ensuring their kids understand that rebellion is a serious matter. Disciplining with focus ensures children learn the importance of obedience and respect. As children grow older and make choices you may not like but aren’t sinful, trusting God’s plan becomes crucial. Parents should learn to let go if it’s not sinful and recognize that their children are being sanctified in the image of God. The goal of parenting is to raise young adults who are equipped to be salt and light in the world. This often means stepping back and letting them be adults, allowing them to make mistakes and grow.
If the relationship with adult children has deteriorated, humility is essential. Be willing to admit mistakes and seek reconciliation. At the end of the day, young adults make their own choices, and sometimes they pull away. Oscar shares a story of a friend whose parents want to reconnect, and though it feels awkward, Oscar reminds him that his parents are meeting him where he is in life like they did when he was younger. This continued love mirrors how God pursues us. For those with adult children still living at home, maintaining respect, responsibility, and righteousness is key. Parents should continue to honor the Lord and set boundaries while acknowledging that their
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Learn more about the hosts of this podcast.
Ray Comfort
Emeal (“E.Z.”) Zwayne
Mark Spence
Oscar Navarro
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Mark Spence (00:00):
Yeah, I think you have to trust the Lord's plan
and His process.
You know we are all growing ata slower rate than somebody else
whoever that else person is andwe think that we know what is
best for our kids.
Remember, if it's not a sinfulact, then you need to just let
(00:22):
it be what it is.
And if it is a sinful act, well, we need to be careful on how
we address that.
Maybe not address it likethey're five years old anymore.
Trust the process and trust thepeople that are around them.
So I think that we just need tobe careful and let people be
people.
If we homeschooled our kids, butif my children decide to put
(00:42):
their kids into public school orprivate school or charter
school, it is what it is.
It's just going to be differenton how I'm going to approach
them and their situation.
I'm going to ask more questions, perhaps when my grandchildren
are inside my life, verydirected questions, and if my
kids are able to listen to me,willing to listen to what I have
to say, as to how to lead themand correct them in that or
(01:04):
direct them in that situationand I think they would I think
that.
I think it's going to work out.
You know it's going to be fine.
Especially, listen if it's notsin, it's going to work out.
If it is sin, you know addressit.
Emeal Zwayne (01:24):
Welcome to the Living Waters Podcast, pick one
and one only game where we pickone and only one.
Oscar Navarro (01:33):
How many do we pick this one?
Emeal Zwayne (01:37):
Not this one.
All right guys.
Swimming in a swimming poolfull of milk and cereal.
Swimming in a swimming poolfull of milk and cereal.
Swimming in a swimming poolfull of hot chocolate and giant
marshmallows?
Ray has a dilemma now.
Swimming in a swimming pool.
I thought I was sick Swimmingin a swimming pool full of
(01:58):
French onion soup.
Mark Spence.
Mark Spence (02:03):
I love French onion soup.
Whenever I find a restaurantthat serves French onion soup, I
just gotta try it, no matterhow much.
Ray Comfort (02:09):
I've been there.
Mark Spence (02:11):
You have to understand Mark.
Emeal Zwayne (02:13):
I'm still trying to overcome my trauma of sitting
next to you in that Frenchrestaurant Onions and water.
Mark Spence (02:21):
It's face.
Like three different types ofcheeses.
I can't even.
Emeal Zwayne (02:25):
I don't even know why I brought it up, because it
irks me so badly.
Why?
Oscar Navarro (02:28):
What's your problem with French onion?
Emeal Zwayne (02:30):
soup.
I've seen you eat it at Mimi'sand stuff, but this was in.
France, it was extra gross.
Ray Comfort (02:36):
I don't know what it was.
Emeal Zwayne (02:37):
Why do you hate the French people?
I think it had frog legs in itor something, I don't know.
Lance teaches how to cook it.
Oh, I love French onion soup.
Thank you.
Ray Comfort (02:44):
Ray, have you had French onion soup?
It sounds quite nice.
Oscar Navarro (02:48):
Thank you.
It's like a thick broth withonions and cheese.
It's amazing.
Ray Comfort (02:52):
It's good if you dip Bread, sheep wool and Sheep
wool.
Emeal Zwayne (02:58):
That is bad recovery.
Mark Spence (02:59):
It's so good, all right, so let's get away from
that so okay, which would youpick?
Emeal Zwayne (03:04):
Number one, obviously Cereal.
Yeah, of course, Milk andcereal.
Ray Comfort (03:07):
Yeah, swimming pool .
Emeal Zwayne (03:08):
It's biblical Land flowing with milk and manna
from heaven, would you reallyjump into it and swim around and
eat the cereal while you swim?
It would be an empty pool.
I would go with.
Oscar Navarro (03:21):
That sounds fun, though actually I think I'd go
with the hot chocolate or thechocolate, whatever it was Ray.
Emeal Zwayne (03:26):
think of that hot chocolate with marshmallows.
Ray Comfort (03:28):
giant ones you bite , yeah, but it's a little bit
sickly after a while Like 10gallons and you probably had
enough 10 gallons.
Emeal Zwayne (03:35):
You only get sick from 10 gallons of milk.
Yeah.
Ray Comfort (03:38):
Chocolate milk.
Emeal Zwayne (03:38):
Yeah right.
Mark Spence (03:40):
Mark, I would pick the cereal and milk.
Emeal Zwayne (03:45):
Probably.
Mark Spence (03:45):
Captain Crunch Berries oh yeah, oh, you're
going to pick your own cerealtoo.
Emeal Zwayne (03:47):
Yeah, look at that Oscar.
Oscar Navarro (03:48):
Yeah, I'd go chocolate.
You'd go with the hot chocolate.
I'd go with the hot chocolate,not because I would consume a
ton of it, but it just soundslike it would be a much more
relaxing experience.
Ray Comfort (04:03):
Yeah, ray, it wouldn't be hot chocolate, it'd
be too hot to swim in.
Emeal Zwayne (04:08):
That would be like a hot tub.
Ray Comfort (04:10):
That sounds amazing , wouldn't that be cool?
What a great subject.
Thanks for joining us today.
Emeal Zwayne (04:15):
All right, Speaking of chocolates, friends,
and I know that's why Oscarchose a chocolate, but actually
I think was it the previousepisode you talked about you
guys were in Switzerland.
Oscar Navarro (04:26):
Yeah, I have a good friend who Just one
Miracles, just one.
Emeal Zwayne (04:32):
There are miracles .
Oscar Navarro (04:33):
I have a friend who married into a family.
We jokingly call them the SwissMafia because everywhere we go
it's like they own thatrestaurant, they own that
chocolate factory, they own thatvineyard and so when we go,
whenever we're in Europe, we tryto step over to Switzerland to
hang out with my buddy, andevery time we go we get to tour
a chocolate factory and theytake you from like the pod.
(04:57):
I don't know, have you guysever seen a chocolate pod, or
the pod where the chocolatecomes from.
Ray Comfort (05:00):
I've seen it online , yeah.
Oscar Navarro (05:01):
It looks like an alien thing.
They're huge.
They're huge, they're the sizeof a football, and you crack it
open and it's gooey and white onthe inside.
That's what it starts as.
So you go through the processof seeing it in its original
form all the way through theroasting, the mulching, because
in the gooey stuff there's seeds, right, exactly.
(05:22):
They get rid of the goo, theydry it out, and then they take
the pod and then they crack itopen and there's a seed on the
inside, and then they roast theseed and then they mulch.
There's this whole process, andafterwards you get chocolate.
Who?
Ray Comfort (05:36):
thought of this there's got to be a statue to
like Christopher Chocolate.
Emeal Zwayne (05:41):
Who hatched that plot?
Oscar Navarro (05:42):
So we got to go through the whole process and
make our own chocolate, and thecompany is called Lotterock.
They're incredible, theChristian family and they're
like the Maserati of chocolate,though you have to eat the
chocolate within 45 days ofproduction or they'll destroy it
.
No preservative.
No preservative is no sugar,what it's all naturally
(06:03):
sweetened.
So most of the chocolate we gethere is all like there's sugar
and a bunch of stuff added to itwhat?
do they use?
What kind of natural it's?
The process of making chocolatenaturally creates the sugar,
really, yeah.
Ray Comfort (06:16):
Wow Oscar.
Oscar Navarro (06:17):
Sir, what's that?
Ray Comfort (06:18):
over there.
Yeah, why?
This is the chocolate I made.
I made this chocolate.
Oscar Navarro (06:23):
Oh, you actually made that there.
Yeah, do you see the smileyface I tried to put on?
Emeal Zwayne (06:27):
Oh, you're serious , Look at that.
Ray Comfort (06:29):
So, oscar, you crushed this with your feet.
Emeal Zwayne (06:31):
I did, yeah, I did yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly
, and with the grapes.
Mark Spence (06:34):
So why is it sitting there?
Emeal Zwayne (06:36):
Oh.
Oscar Navarro (06:37):
I just wanted to show you guys I'm driving nuts.
I'm sitting here like.
Emeal Zwayne (06:41):
Okay now, when you showed me the videos and
pictures from that place, it'snot wild it seriously looked
like Willy Wonka's chocolatefactory.
I mean, there was this fountainright Of like rivers.
Oscar Navarro (06:51):
And it's all.
You can eat chocolate whileyou're there.
Emeal Zwayne (06:54):
Look at Ray.
Get on with it, Oscar.
Let me try to break it first.
The swimming pool with milk hasjust gotten Ray all stirred up
today.
Oscar Navarro (07:01):
That's why I chose it.
It's because the pool wasamazing, oh yeah.
Ray Comfort (07:06):
That noise is making podcast listeners
celebrate.
Mark, did you eat chocolate?
Mark Spence (07:09):
when you were in?
Yeah, in fact, I brought back awhole bunch of chocolate and my
dog ate most of it Are I had abunch of chocolate and my dog
ate most of it.
Emeal Zwayne (07:15):
Are you serious?
I was so upset I heard dogs candie from chocolate.
Mark Spence (07:17):
Yeah, I was hoping at that point.
Ray Comfort (07:19):
All right, here goes Fran.
No chocolate for him.
Emeal Zwayne (07:26):
No chocolate for him, ben hurt.
Oh, oscar, isn't that good.
Wait, that's funny, there'scereal in it.
Oscar Navarro (07:35):
Yeah, I chose to put cereal in it.
No way Did you get some of thecereal.
Ray Comfort (07:39):
I have to get another.
Oscar Navarro (07:40):
And then there's nuts too.
The nuts are caramelized Reallygood.
Oh man, this is next level.
Wow, Are they online?
They actually just opened abrick and mortar in San Diego.
Emeal Zwayne (07:52):
I'm going on vacation with my family next
week.
Oscar Navarro (07:54):
Are you?
You should go to the Lotterock.
I'm going to find where it's at.
Ray Comfort (07:59):
I'm sure our listeners are absolutely
enjoying that sound Ray what doyou think you can handle the
podcast?
I'll just talk.
Emeal Zwayne (08:08):
You know what I like about it.
The sweetness is notoverwhelming.
You know what I mean.
Oscar Navarro (08:15):
Yeah, oh, there's a Lotter rockin' Cerritos guys,
no way.
Emeal Zwayne (08:20):
Yeah, Mark.
Why'd you give it to Oscar?
That's for me.
I'm not.
Ray Comfort (08:24):
All right, another little bit.
Emeal Zwayne (08:29):
So, mark, when you were there, did you have some
chocolate?
Hmm, had a lot of chocolate.
Ray, remember our trip toEurope?
Yeah, I remember that and ourchocolate in.
Ray Comfort (08:41):
Switzerland.
Everybody we met would havechocolate for us because they
knew we were chocolate fans.
Emeal Zwayne (08:47):
Yeah, that's what kept us fueled, actually,
because we were starting to hitthe wall.
Ray Comfort (08:51):
Health food- that noise is smart-breaking
chocolate.
Emeal Zwayne (08:54):
I haven't even had lunch yet.
Oscar Navarro (08:56):
man, Isn't it funny my, our, my kids were like
zombies from the travel.
And then we went to thechocolate factory and they were
like they were good to go.
They came alive.
Emeal Zwayne (09:05):
It reset them uh, well, there you have it, franz.
Thanks for enduring theinsanity.
Okay, give me some more oscarlike it's so good.
What do you think, mark?
How do you rate it?
It's a 10.
Oh, my goodness, this is sogood.
And what are those nuts, oscar?
Oscar Navarro (09:22):
they're caramelized something.
Emeal Zwayne (09:28):
This is definitely the worst episode ever
caramelized cat toenails yeah,yeah, hmm, you make a mean
chocolate, oscar.
Thank you.
Ray Comfort (09:36):
All right friends.
Emeal Zwayne (09:38):
Sorry, friends, all right, I can't talk we
should have rethought this.
I feel like I'm in a swimmingpool of chocolate right now.
All right, friends, time for acool, classy comment.
This is from Jacob Brothers.
Greetings from San Antonio.
My name is Jacob and I wantedto thank you for your
(10:01):
faithfulness in ministry andyour love for God's people
around the world.
The Lord used Living Waters anda sermon by Votie Bauckham to
save me.
After being raised in church andeven leading Bible studies at
my workplace, I've shared thepodcast with friends and family
and it is the number one podcastI listen to.
Lastly, I have been tellingthat Lot and his wife and flea
(10:24):
joke nonstop.
Now, when I heard Ray say it, Iabout crashed my car because of
how hard I was laughing.
May the Lord bless you all.
You remember that joke, ray?
Yeah, remind me.
The Lord told Lot to take hiswife and flee to Sodom.
And the kid what was it?
(10:48):
And the dad was reading theBible to his son and then he
said okay, his wife turned intoa pillar of salt.
What happened to the flea?
Well, jacob, thank you, brother.
All right, friends, today weare talking about how to handle
conflict with adult children,and don't you guys love those of
you that are watching how, somagically and quickly Oscar
(11:09):
changed his apparel, or did heNever mind?
All right guys.
Adult children Rumspringerspeaking of adult children.
Oscar Navarro (11:19):
You guys heard of Rumspringer.
I have no idea what that is.
You just made that word up.
Emeal Zwayne (11:22):
The Amish people do.
We were talking about it aminute ago.
The Amish people, they havethis thing where the Amish kids.
I don't know if, when they turn18 or something, they actually
go out and intentionally indulgein carnality.
Ray Comfort (11:37):
It's like a rite of passage.
It's called sowing oats wildoats.
Emeal Zwayne (11:40):
Yeah, they go out and they have sex and they do
drink and they party.
You've seriously never seen itno, never, what's wrong with you
?
Ray Comfort (11:48):
I don't know, I don't know very many other
people, so it shows the depth oftheir so-called Christianity,
doesn't it?
Emeal Zwayne (11:52):
Yeah, there's a reality show on it.
What's the point?
The premise is, I guess go outand see if you really want to
follow God or not, after youindulge.
Mark Spence (12:03):
I just looked it up .
It says during this time,typically starting around the
age of 16, young people aregiven more freedom to experience
the outside world and maketheir own decisions regarding
their faith and lifestyle.
This period can last a fewyears and allows them to explore
life outside the strict Amishor Mennonite way of living.
Emeal Zwayne (12:19):
But it's like sanctioned.
I mean it's like, hey, go do it.
It's not like, oh, they wentout and rebelled.
It's like, oh, it's myrebellion time Now three years,
why not four years?
Mark Spence (12:26):
See you later 40 years.
So here's your heroine kids.
Emeal Zwayne (12:28):
Seriously, you know, when you think about the
folly of tradition, sometimesbecause this is a tradition,
it's just what they do no one'swilling to step out of it and
say, like what are we doing here?
You know, it's just, this iswhat we do.
So there was a televisionprogram.
The world would love that.
Oh yeah, yeah, they go out, andI mean they're partying,
(12:50):
they're smoking weed, they'reyeah.
Sounds like they're, yeah,sounds like mark this weekend.
Wow, yeah, the rumor millformer mark.
Yeah, bc mark um.
So guys adult children.
Oscar Navarro (13:07):
Um oscar's, the only one that doesn't have them.
Yeah, well, I I reached out andthey're like we haven't heard
from you in 20 years.
And now, all of a sudden, youwant to talk.
What's?
Emeal Zwayne (13:15):
up dad?
Yeah, this is a very importanttopic because, you know, we've
talked before about havingchildren, raising children.
We've touched on parenting uh,not just in a focused episode,
but we've we've touched on it atdifferent points and other
episodes.
But this is a unique thing,because what are you guys,
(13:38):
classic ray comfort great 40years and you still haven't
figured out how to do yourpodcast look, do you want to
hear this or not?
Well, I thought you gotsomething I did, but I think
it's up the wrong way.
Ray Comfort (13:50):
Oh, there we are.
That's probably it probablyunreal here we go, we're sweet,
all right.
So it's conflict con withflicked With flicking.
Emeal Zwayne (14:02):
Yes, so, yeah.
So the uniqueness of getting toa point in life where these
children that you've poured yourlife into, that you've been
accustomed to guiding anddirecting and leading and
instructing and discipliningthey're adults now.
And now you know you don't losethat unique role of being their
(14:23):
parent.
But I put it this way once it'slike they're your kids but
they're no longer kids.
And how now do you interactwith them?
How do you allow there to besuch an atmosphere in your
relationship, such a tone andtenor where they welcome you in,
(14:45):
they want your input, they wantyour counsel, they want your
advice?
You could still be an influencewithout appearing to be someone
who's trying to control theirlife.
Ray Comfort (14:53):
Yeah, you push them out of the nest and watch them
either fly or fall.
Emeal Zwayne (14:56):
Yeah.
Ray Comfort (14:57):
Rump stringer or whatever.
Emeal Zwayne (14:59):
Some form of it.
Mark Spence (15:00):
Well, hopefully you've established a
relationship with them that whenyou shot them out, they tend to
kind of come back a little bitright and ask questions.
I had told my son, noah and Ithink I shared this before I
said listen, noah, I'm not hereto rule over you anymore, like
you are two years old, but Iwant to be here to lead you and
(15:21):
to help you.
And he comes by the housealmost daily and I absolutely
love it.
I wasn't expecting it and Isaid Christmas time, you're not
expected to come, or any otherholiday, you're not expected to
come, but you're welcome to come.
And if you do come, we want tomake it worth your while.
There'll be good food.
If you bring kids, the kidsthere'll be presents.
You know, if it's Christmastime, what time do you guys want
(15:42):
me there?
Oscar Navarro (15:44):
Bring.
Emeal Zwayne (15:44):
Oscars, the kid.
Mark Spence (15:47):
I want to have the open communication right.
You're always welcome here andI have plenty of things to say
and to speak into your lifestill, but I'm going to be
somewhat hesitant becausethey're your kids, they're not
my kids, and if you'd like me tospeak into their life or your
life, listen, I have a lot tosay.
Experience has taught me a lotin scripture.
It's taught me even more.
Emeal Zwayne (16:07):
Mark, what prompted you to say that to Noah
?
I mean, was it on a whim or didyou think about it?
Mark Spence (16:13):
No, I heard another preacher say that and I went
wow, I really like it.
And then I just changed it up alittle bit, but I liked that
idea, he Markified it.
Emeal Zwayne (16:24):
Yes, I love that because there's something, I
think, in the human heart thatdraws closer when you give space
and that pulls away when youtry to crowd, and it's just the
whole get away from here from me.
There's something aboutexpectations and putting
(16:49):
expectations on people, and thenit becomes weird, right,
because I mean, imagine and thishappens a lot, especially in
Arab culture like guilt tripsare.
They're like greetings, youknow, it's like it's kind of
like it's not like hey, how youdoing.
It's like why haven't youcalled?
Right, where have you been?
Oh yeah, oh yeah, you sure loveyour mother.
You know, like guilt trips andsarcasm, and then you just don't
(17:13):
know, like are they comingbecause they want to or is it
now?
And it becomes this like weirdcomplicated thing, you know.
So I love that, mark, that'swise and you know, that's why we
didn't go to Ray and Sue'shouse.
We're not going to your house,okay, yeah, so, oscar, you're
(17:34):
headed in that direction and I'dlove to hear your thoughts in
terms of, maybe, what you'vegleaned from some who have had
adult children and what you'vethought on your own Well, so
yeah, my oldest is 15.
Oscar Navarro (17:47):
She's just started her sophomore year of
high school.
I think I'm looking at it maybefrom a different perspective
because I don't have adultchildren yet, but there is a
number of guys in my life thatare in their early to late
twenties and often, you know,when we sit down every now and
then, we'll get into aconversation that they had with
(18:07):
their parents.
And one of the things that Ihear is, for those parents who
are trying to counsel andprovide wisdom, you know, you
hear this hesitation like man,like I feel, like they just need
to let me be an adult, etcetera, et cetera.
And one of the things that Ioften tell them is dude, like I
wish I had Christian parents.
I wish I, you know, I do have.
(18:27):
I mean, my mom claims to be abeliever now, but my
relationship with her is verydifferent because of the way I
grew up.
She's kind of more like anolder sister.
You know, she just never was amom to me.
For those who are new to thepodcast, my mom was struggled
with drug addiction my wholelife and so I just I had a
different kind of relationshipwith them.
But I mean, you know the ideathat you have parents in your
(18:51):
20s that are reaching out, thatare asking how you're doing,
that wanna make sure you have aplace to go to for a meal Like
to me you don't realize theblessing of what you have.
You know, the first time that Imet my biological father, I was
35 years old and probably abouta week after I met him, he
(19:12):
called me and I answered thephone and I'm like, why is he
calling me, you know?
And I get on the phone and he'slike, hey, I'm just calling to
say hi, How's your day.
And I was like, what You'recalling to say hi?
Like it was so foreign to methat a parent would call just to
check in, just to say hi, justbecause they wanted to be a part
(19:34):
of your life.
And so for the young adultwho's trying to figure out his
aspect, his or her aspect, withtheir parents, count your
blessings.
It is a gift that you haveChristian parents that love you,
that are praying for you, thatare advocating for you, that are
checking in on you.
That is a gift from the LordWow.
Emeal Zwayne (19:55):
Yeah, and Ray, how .
I mean, how do we do that, Likehow do we get?
Ray Comfort (20:01):
our kids.
I'm thinking what are you goingto ask me?
Because my children have gotchildren.
Emeal Zwayne (20:07):
Ray forgot what it's like to be a father.
Oscar Navarro (20:09):
I don't handle conflict with your adult
grandchildren, that's right.
Ray Comfort (20:13):
And great-grandchildren.
Emeal Zwayne (20:15):
Yeah, with your senior citizen children.
Ray Comfort (20:18):
So what do you got for me so?
Emeal Zwayne (20:19):
no, my question to you is you know, how do we get
there to a point where our kidsdesire to have our influence in
their lives?
Ray Comfort (20:29):
Don't you think it starts early on like how you
raise them is a big yeah, thisis going to sound very strange
coming from me, but you teachyour children the fear of the
lord and when they fear god.
They put him first and theyhonor their father and mother,
which is the only commandment,with a threat, a threat, promise
, threat.
No, it's a threat.
It's ephesians 6, uh, verse 1honor your father and mother
(20:50):
that all may be well with youand your days may be long upon
the earth.
And saying all will not be wellwith you if you don't honor
your parents and your days willnot be long upon the earth.
So I say that I see that as anot only a suggestion, but a
threat.
This is what's going to happen.
I meet so many young peoplethat that have an absolute mess,
depression and suicidalthoughts.
You love your mom and dad, hatethem.
(21:12):
Well, there you are.
Emeal Zwayne (21:13):
That's what's happening well you know um my
dad, as you guys know, lived to113.
I can't count how many you knowyou better say 113 113 yeah,
let it sink in.
Ray Comfort (21:26):
Yeah, 113 is like.
Oh, whatever, I lived untilit's 13 minutes past one.
Emeal Zwayne (21:30):
Yeah, but and and keeping with what you, keeping
with what you just said, right,I've had so many people say to
me boy, he must have reallyhonored his parents.
You know it's like, but it's sotrue that Scripture singles
that out and says, hey, it's acommandment with promise or a
(21:50):
threat.
The Amplified Bible wouldprobably say that, yeah, it
would, but that God delights inthat.
Yes, god delights in childrenhonoring their parents.
Now, for us, as parents, ouraim in getting them to honor us
is not because we crave honor,but it's because we know that
that's God's best for them.
I crave honor, but you knowwhat I'm saying.
(22:11):
It's, it's, it's, it's all apart of it.
Um Speaking, of that.
Ray Comfort (22:18):
Quite often people say to me what do you mean?
Honor my mom.
My mom was a prostitute.
You're telling me to honor her.
It's a good question, and it isa good question.
But I tell my kids don't honorme, because I deserve honor.
I'm a wretched sinner.
Honor me because God says to.
Oscar Navarro (22:31):
Yeah, honor the office of parenting.
Ray Comfort (22:33):
Yeah.
Oscar Navarro (22:33):
Right, the office of parenting.
So in that situation that's howI look at it right, I have to
honor the office of a parent.
When your parent is fallingshort of the glory of God, when
you have a parent that's not abeliever, that is causing so
much conflict in your life, howdo I honor that person?
Honor the office of parenting,because when you honor the
office of a parent, when youhonor the office of a father,
(22:56):
what you're actually doing ishonoring the fatherliness of
your father in heaven.
Emeal Zwayne (23:02):
Yeah and Mark, this is again becoming like less
and less common, like kidsseeing their parents as a huge
and valuable asset in theirlives, like Oscar was talking
about.
You know, it's when we becomeadults and have our own kids
that we really start realizingit.
Do you have any thoughts on,like, how do we, how do we get
(23:24):
our kids to value honoringparents, like at an early age?
Mark Spence (23:29):
Well, I don't know.
Nothing comes to my head withthat.
I'm still thinking back on thescripture that we just read with
Ephesians 6, you know itdoesn't say to honor your mom
and dad unless your mom is aprostitute and your dad's in
prison.
It's just an emphatic statement.
We just do it Unless they'recalling us to sin.
Yeah Right, we want you to goand steal these sort of things.
(23:51):
I look back on my kids and theraising of my kids and, by God's
grace, all five of my kids arewalking with the Lord.
I think it would do us well tolisten to our kids, to make sure
that they feel like they'rebeing heard and as they speak,
we can now regurgitate.
If you would talk back to them,say, hey, this is what I'm
hearing you say, but here's thetakeaway.
(24:13):
This is what Scripture has tosay.
I think that there's a value inattaching a validity to their
struggles, what they're goingthrough and everything in
between, to nip it right away ifthey begin to disrespect and
dishonor, right.
So I think maybe just startwith that.
(24:34):
Nothing else really comes to myhead Easy.
Ray Comfort (24:36):
Why don't you address that for a minute?
Rebellion and a two-year-oldwhat would you do with that?
Emeal Zwayne (24:41):
Yeah.
Well, I do think that what youdo in terms of investing in your
kids and sewing into them earlyon can have an effect, but that
comes with a big caveat, right.
But that comes with a bigcaveat right Because, as we've
(25:01):
mentioned before, the last thingwe want is for parents who are
listening now, who have adultchildren who have rebelled, to
think that it's necessarily alltheir fault or responsibility.
Of course we can look and say,hey, yeah, you could look back
and say, maybe there are thingsyou did, you could have done
differently.
But there are parents who havepoured their hearts into their
kids.
And again, we've talked aboutthe proverb that's a truism, not
(25:22):
a promise.
Bring up a child in the way heshall go, and when he's old he
won't depart from it.
People think, oh well, I musthave not done that then.
But that's a truism.
That's typical of how thingscan go.
But it's not a promise.
But there's that condemnationof oh man, I must have man.
That's not the case.
There is what I've mentionedbefore.
Ted Tripp talks about shapinginfluences.
And then there's Godwardorientation.
(25:42):
Where, at the end of the day,where's their heart at, and have
they repented and surrenderedto the Lord?
But, having said all that, Ibelieve we can have impact and
influence.
And it begins early on, andsometimes parents do.
It begins early on, andsometimes parents do see kids
who are rebellious and they'reshocked and surprised.
And yet they, at the same time,didn't do what Ephesians 6
(26:04):
mentions.
And you, fathers, do notprovoke your children to wrath,
but bring them up in thetraining and admonition of the
Lord.
And what is the training andadmonition of the Lord for
children?
It's to honor their father andmother, and it's the parents'
responsibility to train them upin that.
And so we have to remember that.
So a two-year-old who'srebelling needs to be corrected
(26:25):
and disciplined, and here's thekey in that.
This is what oftentimes I thinkis a problem in raising children
.
It's that parents are doing itwithout focus.
They're flying by the seat oftheir pants.
So the child does something.
They rebel, no, they saysomething rude to their parent,
even at a very young age, liketwo, and the parent is like, oh,
(26:46):
don't do that, Don't do that.
And they're looking here, there, they're doing things.
When a child rebels, everythingstops.
I mean, it's like pauseeverything.
Ray Comfort (26:58):
Whatever you do, you stop.
Emeal Zwayne (26:59):
He's got a stick of dynamite in his hand.
Yeah, you, you, you crouch totheir level, you give them full
focus and you and you lead andguide them through that with
with tenderness, love and andcourageous boldness.
You know you don't yell andscream, but but that child needs
to.
That doesn't happen, because ifyou're just running around and
(27:20):
your kids are doing stuff,they're getting, they're getting
trained by you, whetherintentionally or unintentionally
, and often unintentionally,that this isn't a big deal.
So of course it'll keep doingit.
And not only will they keepdoing it, it'll become habit,
it'll become rooted and grounded, you know, in their character.
And so, yeah, being, you know,being quick to engage them in
(27:41):
those things and to disciplinethem, but to combine that with
explanation and tenderness andprayer and all that, you know
there's a lot of fruit.
So, but then you know, we getto that place where and I know
that those listening now arethinking through that okay, my
kids are adults, but they'restarting to do things that I
don't really like.
(28:02):
We're not talking about sin,but things that that not
necessarily my preference, suchas, such as you know they are
now maybe.
Oscar Navarro (28:14):
Drinking black coffee.
Emeal Zwayne (28:16):
Ah, that is unacceptable.
That black coffee, that isunacceptable.
Oscar Navarro (28:19):
That's where easy draws the line.
Emeal Zwayne (28:21):
I am fully involved in that.
Mark Spence (28:23):
Like just the way they're raising their kids or
their convictions.
Emeal Zwayne (28:26):
Yeah, the way they're dressing the music
they're listening to, the showsthey're watching or the movies
they're watching.
Oscar Navarro (28:34):
The face tattoos, again.
Emeal Zwayne (28:35):
Yeah, so not sinful actions we're not talking
about.
We're not talking about sinfulthings, but things that are that
are different than than maybewhat we preferred or how we
raise them.
That's the big rub how we raisethem and we.
Why did we raise them that way?
Because we were convinced thiswas best and healthy, right, and
those are our convictions, andobviously they're raising our
home.
So, mark, what do you do withthat?
(28:57):
How do you grapple with?
Obviously we've all seen itwith our adult kids.
Mark Spence (29:01):
Yeah, I think you have to trust the Lord's plan
and his process.
We are all growing at a slowerrate than somebody else whoever
that else person is and we thinkthat we know what is best for
our kids.
Remember, if it's not a sinfulact, then you need to just let
(29:22):
it be what it is.
And if it is a sinful act, well, we need to be careful on how
we address that.
Maybe not address it in likethey're five years old anymore.
Trust the process and trust thepeople that are around them.
So I think that we just need tobe careful and let people be
people.
If we homeschooled our kids, butif my children decide to put
(29:43):
their kids into public school orprivate school or charter
school, it is what it is.
It's just going to be differenton how I'm going to approach
them and their situation.
I'm going to ask more questions, perhaps when my grandchildren
are inside my life, verydirected questions, and if my
kids are able to listen to me,willing to listen to what I have
to say, as to how to lead themand correct them in that or
(30:05):
direct them in that situationand I think they would I think
that.
I think it's going to work out.
Ray Comfort (30:11):
Yeah.
Oscar Navarro (30:11):
You know it's going to be fine.
Mark Spence (30:13):
Especially, listen.
If it's not sin, it's going towork out.
If it is sin, you know addressit.
Oscar Navarro (30:19):
It's also a reminder.
I think I'm starting to get aglimpse of this with two
teenagers.
It's a reminder that ultimately, these kids are not yours.
Right, the Lord has entrustedyou with them, but the Lord is
at work, sanctifying them, and Ithink so often, as parents, we
can turn our kids into trophiesfor our own sanctification.
(30:40):
They need to be the example ofmy righteousness, of my walk
with the Lord, and thereforethey need to look this
particular way.
But ultimately, they're notbeing sanctified in the image of
Oscar.
They're being sanctified in theimage of Christ, and he is
shaping them and creating themand molding them into a person
that doesn't look like me, thatdoesn't maybe dress like me,
(31:03):
listen to the music that Ilisten to or into the same
things, just have a differentimpression of the world.
Yet walking with the Lord, andthat is something rather than to
be afraid of, to be uncertainof, that's something to embrace.
Oh, this is your child, god,and you've saved them and you're
sanctifying them and you'reshaping them into something
(31:24):
totally different, and that isgood and beautiful.
Emeal Zwayne (31:28):
Man, it's so much easier to do that with people
that aren't your kids, like youknow what I mean.
Like, oh, cool, okay, that'sour convention, it's my child,
you know, and.
But what you're saying is sotrue, oscar, like we have to
remember yeah, they are reallyGod's child and we're just all
(31:49):
different.
But, ray, you know, one of thethings that stuck out to me
immediately when I first metRachel, when you were there
present, was her relationshipwith you and her respect towards
(32:10):
you, but also the play had whenI saw you guys talking.
But it, it stood out to me andwhat are some of the things you
did early on with the kids towhere they felt you're
approachable as a dad?
Ray Comfort (32:24):
I let them be adults.
Um, I know, when I was a kid,especially in my early teens, I
hated it being in school beingtold what to do.
I wanted to be an adult wherepeople didn't tell me what to do
, and when I became an adult, Ireally appreciated my own
parents letting me do my ownthing.
At the age of 20, I wanted tobuy a house and they were very
nervous and I said let us dothis, we want our own house.
(32:48):
And they let us do it, and soit was $200.
Mark Spence (32:50):
Yeah.
Emeal Zwayne (32:50):
Well, it was $5,300.
Not far off, martin actually itwas $5,300.
Ray Comfort (32:57):
Wow, we wanted to buy a house for $9,000 on a hill
overlooking the beach and wecouldn't afford it $9,000,.
I look back now, but the wageswere totally different back then
.
It was $5,300.
Sue had money in the bank, sowe used that.
Emeal Zwayne (33:13):
Where was your?
Ray Comfort (33:13):
money.
Yeah, my money was invested inleather jackets.
I'm not kidding.
All the, all the savings I hadI put into making leather
jackets for people and it wastied up.
But we got the house and wedon't regret it.
So I I stand back and lookobjectively at my kids I did and
say they are, they are adults.
They're like what I wanted tobe totally independent, standing
on my own two feet, and we letthem and uh, it's, it's a
(33:35):
blessing to be totallyindependent standing on my own
two feet and we let them, andit's a blessing to be able to do
that.
Oscar Navarro (33:39):
Ray, there must have been nothing more trying
for you when your daughterbrought home a Lebanese man.
What was it like?
Ray Comfort (33:44):
Well, it was like when I said, look, sometimes my
dog will bring things inside,and I just said, well, this is
the way it is.
Emeal Zwayne (33:53):
This is the way it is.
This is the way it is.
Look what the doc dragged in.
Mark Spence (33:57):
Was there ever a moment where you wanted to move
back to Lebanon?
Emeal Zwayne (34:01):
Bring back that memory.
Ray Comfort (34:03):
We've talked about that.
What was the movie that was out?
Emeal Zwayne (34:04):
Not Without my Daughter.
That was the name of the movieyeah, where some woman married a
crazy Arab and they went to theMiddle East and then he
wouldn't let her leave.
I mean, they abused her.
Ray Comfort (34:14):
But that was seriously a wrestle for me.
Am I prepared to just let hergo and let her be an adult
overseas with a loving husband?
Oscar Navarro (34:25):
And I thought no, so I gave him a job.
Emeal Zwayne (34:27):
That was something and I was really serious.
I thought it's what the Lordhad.
And, yeah, I talked to her tooand you know it was hard for
Rachel, but that's what blew mymind is her willingness to
follow me, and then God shot itdown.
Let me share a quote so that wedidn't get literally shot down.
Mark Spence (34:43):
That's right.
Nowadays you would, though.
Oh yes, the turmoil there, paulTripp.
He said the goal of parentingis always to work yourself out
of a job.
The goal of parenting is tosend young adults out into the
world who are prepared to liveas God's children in a salt and
light in a corrupt and brokenworld.
Wow, I like that.
(35:03):
The goal of parenting is towork yourself out of a job.
And now they take over the job.
The goal is to pass off thebaton to them and then to not
necessarily enjoy it from thesides, as they do all the work,
but to uh.
It just plays a different role.
There's a new chapter as aparent when your kids begin to
get older.
Ray Comfort (35:21):
I was going to say that we just had the Olympics,
and I can't stand the passingoff the baton to the guy in
front of always frustratinganxiety.
You know, exactly what'sinvolved.
They drop that thing.
That's years and years of sweatand pain and suffering and
training, and I'd be freakingout Butterfingers.
Emeal Zwayne (35:39):
You would drop it.
You would drop it, well, Iwould throw it to the person.
Ray Comfort (35:43):
Ray would kill someone with it.
Emeal Zwayne (35:44):
Somehow I'm sure, yeah, and you know, I think the
big key too is like when itcomes to convictions as an
example, because that's oftenthe biggest thing, convictions
and is like when it comes toconvictions as an example,
because that's often the biggestthing convictions and decisions
, right, decisions we wouldn'tmake, whether it's financial or
it's locational we're moving orcareer or whatever or
convictions, things they do thatare in that sphere.
(36:06):
But I think it's so importantthat our actions back up what we
should say, because with ourkids, we've told them look,
you're going to make your owndecisions in life and we're
going to honor that.
We're going to step away.
As long as it's not sinful,right, because we still have a
job to speak in each other'slives and, of course, we should
(36:27):
still be able to share concern.
It may not be sin, but we mightsee it heading there or maybe
it doesn't seem wise.
We have to be careful with howwe do that.
It's preferable that we'reinvited to do that.
But I think we have to alsolook and say we're not just
their parents, we're theirbrothers and sisters in Christ
and we should do what we allshould do in that regard.
But go ahead All right.
Mark Spence (36:47):
So I imagine that back.
How do I get back into arelationship with my adult
children, who maybe there'sdifferent scenarios, Maybe
they've completely written offtheir parents or maybe they're
just mom dad, I don't want anyinput from me whatsoever.
We'll see you occasionally.
(37:09):
How do I get my kids back?
Emeal Zwayne (37:11):
Well, it's the four letter Christian filth word
humility.
It's not four letters literally, but humility and I say filth
word because in our flesh it'sjust despised to humble
ourselves if we've donesomething in error with our
children, so to be able to goback and to be willing to admit
(37:34):
mistakes we've made and if wereally honestly don't know what
we might have done, to just seekthem out, like hey, can you
tell me, is there something I'vedone?
I want to make it right.
I love you To go and to reallyseek to do that is huge.
Ray Comfort (37:50):
Yeah, a gift basket would be great.
Oscar Navarro (37:54):
We're handing out gift cards.
Gift baskets yeah, a giftbasket would be great.
We're handing out gift cards.
Emeal Zwayne (37:58):
Yeah, but I was making a point earlier on in
that our actions need to back upwhat we should say to our kids
and that is hey, we're going torespect you and let you be your
own person.
But then we back that up,because sometimes we may say
that, but then our kids do makea different decision and then we
act differently.
Kids do make a differentdecision and then we, we, we act
differently, we give them aguilt trip, we, we get you know,
kind of man, that is wrong.
(38:20):
You know.
We need to just be able to say,hey, yeah, great, that's your
decision and we, we've told youthat's fine and and and just to
to give them that respectbecause at the end of the day,
they have decisions to make.
They can choose to pull away.
Do you want to be a person whoplayed a part in that because of
(38:41):
your lack of graciousness?
Oscar Navarro (38:42):
and humility you know I was talking to.
Kind of your kind of questionreminded me of the other side of
that coin.
And I was talking to a friendrecently, young 20s, and this
person was kind of lamenting howtheir parents like all of a
sudden are wanting to involvethemselves in this new area of
life.
For this this guy you know likeoh he's, he's into this thing
(39:05):
and now all of a sudden theywant to be involved and it just
feels so awkward and weird, andlamenting on how his parents
aren't cool or whatever.
And um, I encouraged him tolook at it differently.
I told him man, honestly, itreminds me of incarnational love
, because when you were a baby,your parents got on their
bellies and played blocks withyou.
(39:27):
They met you where you were.
When you were five years old,your parents played hide and go
seek with you.
When you were 15, they weredriving you to your games and
teaching you how to drive.
And now that you're in yourtwenties, your parents aren't
all of a sudden trying to becool.
They're doing what they'realways have been doing.
(39:48):
They're meeting you wherethey're at.
They're representingincarnational love.
So don't see it as weird.
See it as a beautiful reminderof how God has loved you and
embrace that.
That's the way parents havealways loved their children, and
it's not something to beawkward about.
It's not something to turn yourshoulder on.
(40:08):
It's something to be viewed asyou are being loved by your
parents in the same way God hasloved you, yeah.
Ray Comfort (40:18):
I once heard a preacher say something I'll
never forget.
He was talking about honoringyour mom and dad and he says you
dishonor your mother when shegave up her figure to bear you.
I thought wow you don't realizenine months of suffering so you
could have life, yeah.
Emeal Zwayne (40:32):
I've shared the Arab saying before.
I think that says that theheart of the parent is on the
child, the heart of the child ison the rock, like a worthless
thing, and you start realizingthat as you get older.
My son, Luke, is gettingmarried soon and he just moved
out to secure the place thatthey're gonna have.
He's roommateing with a goodfriend of ours and he was just
(40:53):
so excited and I rememberwalking down the hallway and
looking into his bedroom andRachel was sitting on his bed
bawling her eyes out his lastday at home, you know, and and
that's why you have a dog, yeah,well, I'll tell you.
It hit me because I thought, youknow, luke is so excited and
we're excited, but it's easy tolook and say, well, isn't, isn't
(41:16):
he like sad, isn't he?
And he was actually.
Luke did shed some tears tojust when it hit him like whoa,
this is like permanent.
Now I'm never coming back home.
Um, in a sense, but um, but youknow it's um.
It's where we were when we werekids, right, we weren't
thinking what are my parentsfeeling?
(41:37):
What are my parents goingthrough?
Ray Comfort (41:38):
That's exactly right.
Emeal Zwayne (41:39):
yeah Right, you're just like, yeah, I'm getting
married, getting my own house,whoopee, and so we just have to
remember that and be patient.
But you know, I wanna closereal quick on a note with those
who have adult kids, those stillliving at home.
That's when it's a dilemma,because you know there are other
things outside of convictionsper se and decisions that are
(42:01):
just like behavior.
And how do you not do adisservice to your children who
are living at home by enablingthem to do things that aren't
good for them?
And so I came up with thisthing years ago for our kids,
and I've told our kids look,this is your home for life If
these three things aremaintained.
Number one respect.
(42:21):
We're not going to enable youto dishonor God by living at
home now, even though you're anadult, and to treat us in a
disparaging and disrespectfulway.
So respect.
Secondly, responsibility.
So if you're living at homeright, and especially if we're
not charging you rent, we'redoing that so that we can help
you get set up for the future.
You have to be pursuing acareer, you have to be in school
(42:46):
, you have to be saving money,you've got to be pulling your
weight around the house.
And then, lastly, righteousness.
You live at home.
You claim to be a Christian.
You can't be living in sin, andso my saying is respect,
responsibility, righteousnessand this is your homestead.
Until you're wed, you're deador you're raptured by the
church's head.
(43:06):
Yeah, so I think I've sharedthat before, but it's been a
healthy sort of a guide for ourkids at home and we're grateful
that they've all maintained that.
But it's been a healthy sort ofa guide for our kids at home
and we're grateful that they'veall maintained that and it's
been a joy to see.
But at the end of the day,again, we remember they're God's
kids, we entrust them into Hiscare, we maintain humility and
(43:29):
we maintain respect.
I'll often say that to my kidswhen we're talking or in a text.
I'll say I really respect you.
That's huge to have respectfrom someone, but we as parents
think, oh, I need to berespected.
No, we also need to berespectful toward our kids, to
treat them in a manner thathonors the Lord and walk in true
(43:50):
biblical love.
Take all of the truths ofScripture that apply to one
another as believers and applythem to your children, and I
think the Lord will guide you inwisdom and direct you in that
way.
Very good, very good.
Ray Comfort (44:04):
Very good All right , friends.
Emeal Zwayne (44:06):
That's the end here.
Don't forget why?
Christianity Solving Life'sMost Important Questions.
Living Waters Mug, the EvidenceStudy Bible all at
livingwaterscom Podcasts, atlivingwaterscom podcast.
At livingwaterscom, with allyour thoughts and questions and
all that other good stuff.
Thank you for joining us,friends.
(44:26):
We'll see you here next time onthe Living Waters podcast,
where we have no idea what we'redoing.
Yeah, I think you have to trust the Lord's plan
and His process.
You know we are all growing ata slower rate than somebody else
whoever that else person is andwe think that we know what is
best for our kids.
Remember, if it's not a sinfulact, then you need to just let
(00:22):
it be what it is.
And if it is a sinful act, well, we need to be careful on how
we address that.
Maybe not address it likethey're five years old anymore.
Trust the process and trust thepeople that are around them.
So I think that we just need tobe careful and let people be
people.
If we homeschooled our kids, butif my children decide to put
(00:42):
their kids into public school orprivate school or charter
school, it is what it is.
It's just going to be differenton how I'm going to approach
them and their situation.
I'm going to ask more questions, perhaps when my grandchildren
are inside my life, verydirected questions, and if my
kids are able to listen to me,willing to listen to what I have
to say, as to how to lead themand correct them in that or
(01:04):
direct them in that situationand I think they would I think
that.
I think it's going to work out.
You know it's going to be fine.
Especially, listen if it's notsin, it's going to work out.
If it is sin, you know addressit.
Emeal Zwayne (01:24):
Welcome to the Living Waters Podcast, pick one
and one only game where we pickone and only one.
Oscar Navarro (01:33):
How many do we pick this one?
Emeal Zwayne (01:37):
Not this one.
All right guys.
Swimming in a swimming poolfull of milk and cereal.
Swimming in a swimming poolfull of milk and cereal.
Swimming in a swimming poolfull of hot chocolate and giant
marshmallows?
Ray has a dilemma now.
Swimming in a swimming pool.
I thought I was sick Swimmingin a swimming pool full of
(01:58):
French onion soup.
Mark Spence.
Mark Spence (02:03):
I love French onion soup.
Whenever I find a restaurantthat serves French onion soup, I
just gotta try it, no matterhow much.
Ray Comfort (02:09):
I've been there.
Mark Spence (02:11):
You have to understand Mark.
Emeal Zwayne (02:13):
I'm still trying to overcome my trauma of sitting
next to you in that Frenchrestaurant Onions and water.
Mark Spence (02:21):
It's face.
Like three different types ofcheeses.
I can't even.
Emeal Zwayne (02:25):
I don't even know why I brought it up, because it
irks me so badly.
Why?
Oscar Navarro (02:28):
What's your problem with French onion?
Emeal Zwayne (02:30):
soup.
I've seen you eat it at Mimi'sand stuff, but this was in.
France, it was extra gross.
Ray Comfort (02:36):
I don't know what it was.
Emeal Zwayne (02:37):
Why do you hate the French people?
I think it had frog legs in itor something, I don't know.
Lance teaches how to cook it.
Oh, I love French onion soup.
Thank you.
Ray Comfort (02:44):
Ray, have you had French onion soup?
It sounds quite nice.
Oscar Navarro (02:48):
Thank you.
It's like a thick broth withonions and cheese.
It's amazing.
Ray Comfort (02:52):
It's good if you dip Bread, sheep wool and Sheep
wool.
Emeal Zwayne (02:58):
That is bad recovery.
Mark Spence (02:59):
It's so good, all right, so let's get away from
that so okay, which would youpick?
Emeal Zwayne (03:04):
Number one, obviously Cereal.
Yeah, of course, Milk andcereal.
Ray Comfort (03:07):
Yeah, swimming pool .
Emeal Zwayne (03:08):
It's biblical Land flowing with milk and manna
from heaven, would you reallyjump into it and swim around and
eat the cereal while you swim?
It would be an empty pool.
I would go with.
Oscar Navarro (03:21):
That sounds fun, though actually I think I'd go
with the hot chocolate or thechocolate, whatever it was Ray.
Emeal Zwayne (03:26):
think of that hot chocolate with marshmallows.
Ray Comfort (03:28):
giant ones you bite , yeah, but it's a little bit
sickly after a while Like 10gallons and you probably had
enough 10 gallons.
Emeal Zwayne (03:35):
You only get sick from 10 gallons of milk.
Yeah.
Ray Comfort (03:38):
Chocolate milk.
Emeal Zwayne (03:38):
Yeah right.
Mark Spence (03:40):
Mark, I would pick the cereal and milk.
Emeal Zwayne (03:45):
Probably.
Mark Spence (03:45):
Captain Crunch Berries oh yeah, oh, you're
going to pick your own cerealtoo.
Emeal Zwayne (03:47):
Yeah, look at that Oscar.
Oscar Navarro (03:48):
Yeah, I'd go chocolate.
You'd go with the hot chocolate.
I'd go with the hot chocolate,not because I would consume a
ton of it, but it just soundslike it would be a much more
relaxing experience.
Ray Comfort (04:03):
Yeah, ray, it wouldn't be hot chocolate, it'd
be too hot to swim in.
Emeal Zwayne (04:08):
That would be like a hot tub.
Ray Comfort (04:10):
That sounds amazing , wouldn't that be cool?
What a great subject.
Thanks for joining us today.
Emeal Zwayne (04:15):
All right, Speaking of chocolates, friends,
and I know that's why Oscarchose a chocolate, but actually
I think was it the previousepisode you talked about you
guys were in Switzerland.
Oscar Navarro (04:26):
Yeah, I have a good friend who Just one
Miracles, just one.
Emeal Zwayne (04:32):
There are miracles .
Oscar Navarro (04:33):
I have a friend who married into a family.
We jokingly call them the SwissMafia because everywhere we go
it's like they own thatrestaurant, they own that
chocolate factory, they own thatvineyard and so when we go,
whenever we're in Europe, we tryto step over to Switzerland to
hang out with my buddy, andevery time we go we get to tour
a chocolate factory and theytake you from like the pod.
(04:57):
I don't know, have you guysever seen a chocolate pod, or
the pod where the chocolatecomes from.
Ray Comfort (05:00):
I've seen it online , yeah.
Oscar Navarro (05:01):
It looks like an alien thing.
They're huge.
They're huge, they're the sizeof a football, and you crack it
open and it's gooey and white onthe inside.
That's what it starts as.
So you go through the processof seeing it in its original
form all the way through theroasting, the mulching, because
in the gooey stuff there's seeds, right, exactly.
(05:22):
They get rid of the goo, theydry it out, and then they take
the pod and then they crack itopen and there's a seed on the
inside, and then they roast theseed and then they mulch.
There's this whole process, andafterwards you get chocolate.
Who?
Ray Comfort (05:36):
thought of this there's got to be a statue to
like Christopher Chocolate.
Emeal Zwayne (05:41):
Who hatched that plot?
Oscar Navarro (05:42):
So we got to go through the whole process and
make our own chocolate, and thecompany is called Lotterock.
They're incredible, theChristian family and they're
like the Maserati of chocolate,though you have to eat the
chocolate within 45 days ofproduction or they'll destroy it
.
No preservative.
No preservative is no sugar,what it's all naturally
(06:03):
sweetened.
So most of the chocolate we gethere is all like there's sugar
and a bunch of stuff added to itwhat?
do they use?
What kind of natural it's?
The process of making chocolatenaturally creates the sugar,
really, yeah.
Ray Comfort (06:16):
Wow Oscar.
Oscar Navarro (06:17):
Sir, what's that?
Ray Comfort (06:18):
over there.
Yeah, why?
This is the chocolate I made.
I made this chocolate.
Oscar Navarro (06:23):
Oh, you actually made that there.
Yeah, do you see the smileyface I tried to put on?
Emeal Zwayne (06:27):
Oh, you're serious , Look at that.
Ray Comfort (06:29):
So, oscar, you crushed this with your feet.
Emeal Zwayne (06:31):
I did, yeah, I did yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly
, and with the grapes.
Mark Spence (06:34):
So why is it sitting there?
Emeal Zwayne (06:36):
Oh.
Oscar Navarro (06:37):
I just wanted to show you guys I'm driving nuts.
I'm sitting here like.
Emeal Zwayne (06:41):
Okay now, when you showed me the videos and
pictures from that place, it'snot wild it seriously looked
like Willy Wonka's chocolatefactory.
I mean, there was this fountainright Of like rivers.
Oscar Navarro (06:51):
And it's all.
You can eat chocolate whileyou're there.
Emeal Zwayne (06:54):
Look at Ray.
Get on with it, Oscar.
Let me try to break it first.
The swimming pool with milk hasjust gotten Ray all stirred up
today.
Oscar Navarro (07:01):
That's why I chose it.
It's because the pool wasamazing, oh yeah.
Ray Comfort (07:06):
That noise is making podcast listeners
celebrate.
Mark, did you eat chocolate?
Mark Spence (07:09):
when you were in?
Yeah, in fact, I brought back awhole bunch of chocolate and my
dog ate most of it Are I had abunch of chocolate and my dog
ate most of it.
Emeal Zwayne (07:15):
Are you serious?
I was so upset I heard dogs candie from chocolate.
Mark Spence (07:17):
Yeah, I was hoping at that point.
Ray Comfort (07:19):
All right, here goes Fran.
No chocolate for him.
Emeal Zwayne (07:26):
No chocolate for him, ben hurt.
Oh, oscar, isn't that good.
Wait, that's funny, there'scereal in it.
Oscar Navarro (07:35):
Yeah, I chose to put cereal in it.
No way Did you get some of thecereal.
Ray Comfort (07:39):
I have to get another.
Oscar Navarro (07:40):
And then there's nuts too.
The nuts are caramelized Reallygood.
Oh man, this is next level.
Wow, Are they online?
They actually just opened abrick and mortar in San Diego.
Emeal Zwayne (07:52):
I'm going on vacation with my family next
week.
Oscar Navarro (07:54):
Are you?
You should go to the Lotterock.
I'm going to find where it's at.
Ray Comfort (07:59):
I'm sure our listeners are absolutely
enjoying that sound Ray what doyou think you can handle the
podcast?
I'll just talk.
Emeal Zwayne (08:08):
You know what I like about it.
The sweetness is notoverwhelming.
You know what I mean.
Oscar Navarro (08:15):
Yeah, oh, there's a Lotter rockin' Cerritos guys,
no way.
Emeal Zwayne (08:20):
Yeah, Mark.
Why'd you give it to Oscar?
That's for me.
I'm not.
Ray Comfort (08:24):
All right, another little bit.
Emeal Zwayne (08:29):
So, mark, when you were there, did you have some
chocolate?
Hmm, had a lot of chocolate.
Ray, remember our trip toEurope?
Yeah, I remember that and ourchocolate in.
Ray Comfort (08:41):
Switzerland.
Everybody we met would havechocolate for us because they
knew we were chocolate fans.
Emeal Zwayne (08:47):
Yeah, that's what kept us fueled, actually,
because we were starting to hitthe wall.
Ray Comfort (08:51):
Health food- that noise is smart-breaking
chocolate.
Emeal Zwayne (08:54):
I haven't even had lunch yet.
Oscar Navarro (08:56):
man, Isn't it funny my, our, my kids were like
zombies from the travel.
And then we went to thechocolate factory and they were
like they were good to go.
They came alive.
Emeal Zwayne (09:05):
It reset them uh, well, there you have it, franz.
Thanks for enduring theinsanity.
Okay, give me some more oscarlike it's so good.
What do you think, mark?
How do you rate it?
It's a 10.
Oh, my goodness, this is sogood.
And what are those nuts, oscar?
Oscar Navarro (09:22):
they're caramelized something.
Emeal Zwayne (09:28):
This is definitely the worst episode ever
caramelized cat toenails yeah,yeah, hmm, you make a mean
chocolate, oscar.
Thank you.
Ray Comfort (09:36):
All right friends.
Emeal Zwayne (09:38):
Sorry, friends, all right, I can't talk we
should have rethought this.
I feel like I'm in a swimmingpool of chocolate right now.
All right, friends, time for acool, classy comment.
This is from Jacob Brothers.
Greetings from San Antonio.
My name is Jacob and I wantedto thank you for your
(10:01):
faithfulness in ministry andyour love for God's people
around the world.
The Lord used Living Waters anda sermon by Votie Bauckham to
save me.
After being raised in church andeven leading Bible studies at
my workplace, I've shared thepodcast with friends and family
and it is the number one podcastI listen to.
Lastly, I have been tellingthat Lot and his wife and flea
(10:24):
joke nonstop.
Now, when I heard Ray say it, Iabout crashed my car because of
how hard I was laughing.
May the Lord bless you all.
You remember that joke, ray?
Yeah, remind me.
The Lord told Lot to take hiswife and flee to Sodom.
And the kid what was it?
(10:48):
And the dad was reading theBible to his son and then he
said okay, his wife turned intoa pillar of salt.
What happened to the flea?
Well, jacob, thank you, brother.
All right, friends, today weare talking about how to handle
conflict with adult children,and don't you guys love those of
you that are watching how, somagically and quickly Oscar
(11:09):
changed his apparel, or did heNever mind?
All right guys.
Adult children Rumspringerspeaking of adult children.
Oscar Navarro (11:19):
You guys heard of Rumspringer.
I have no idea what that is.
You just made that word up.
Emeal Zwayne (11:22):
The Amish people do.
We were talking about it aminute ago.
The Amish people, they havethis thing where the Amish kids.
I don't know if, when they turn18 or something, they actually
go out and intentionally indulgein carnality.
Ray Comfort (11:37):
It's like a rite of passage.
It's called sowing oats wildoats.
Emeal Zwayne (11:40):
Yeah, they go out and they have sex and they do
drink and they party.
You've seriously never seen itno, never, what's wrong with you
?
Ray Comfort (11:48):
I don't know, I don't know very many other
people, so it shows the depth oftheir so-called Christianity,
doesn't it?
Emeal Zwayne (11:52):
Yeah, there's a reality show on it.
What's the point?
The premise is, I guess go outand see if you really want to
follow God or not, after youindulge.
Mark Spence (12:03):
I just looked it up .
It says during this time,typically starting around the
age of 16, young people aregiven more freedom to experience
the outside world and maketheir own decisions regarding
their faith and lifestyle.
This period can last a fewyears and allows them to explore
life outside the strict Amishor Mennonite way of living.
Emeal Zwayne (12:19):
But it's like sanctioned.
I mean it's like, hey, go do it.
It's not like, oh, they wentout and rebelled.
It's like, oh, it's myrebellion time Now three years,
why not four years?
Mark Spence (12:26):
See you later 40 years.
So here's your heroine kids.
Emeal Zwayne (12:28):
Seriously, you know, when you think about the
folly of tradition, sometimesbecause this is a tradition,
it's just what they do no one'swilling to step out of it and
say, like what are we doing here?
You know, it's just, this iswhat we do.
So there was a televisionprogram.
The world would love that.
Oh yeah, yeah, they go out, andI mean they're partying,
(12:50):
they're smoking weed, they'reyeah.
Sounds like they're, yeah,sounds like mark this weekend.
Wow, yeah, the rumor millformer mark.
Yeah, bc mark um.
So guys adult children.
Oscar Navarro (13:07):
Um oscar's, the only one that doesn't have them.
Yeah, well, I I reached out andthey're like we haven't heard
from you in 20 years.
And now, all of a sudden, youwant to talk.
What's?
Emeal Zwayne (13:15):
up dad?
Yeah, this is a very importanttopic because, you know, we've
talked before about havingchildren, raising children.
We've touched on parenting uh,not just in a focused episode,
but we've we've touched on it atdifferent points and other
episodes.
But this is a unique thing,because what are you guys,
(13:38):
classic ray comfort great 40years and you still haven't
figured out how to do yourpodcast look, do you want to
hear this or not?
Well, I thought you gotsomething I did, but I think
it's up the wrong way.
Ray Comfort (13:50):
Oh, there we are.
That's probably it probablyunreal here we go, we're sweet,
all right.
So it's conflict con withflicked With flicking.
Emeal Zwayne (14:02):
Yes, so, yeah.
So the uniqueness of getting toa point in life where these
children that you've poured yourlife into, that you've been
accustomed to guiding anddirecting and leading and
instructing and discipliningthey're adults now.
And now you know you don't losethat unique role of being their
(14:23):
parent.
But I put it this way once it'slike they're your kids but
they're no longer kids.
And how now do you interactwith them?
How do you allow there to besuch an atmosphere in your
relationship, such a tone andtenor where they welcome you in,
(14:45):
they want your input, they wantyour counsel, they want your
advice?
You could still be an influencewithout appearing to be someone
who's trying to control theirlife.
Ray Comfort (14:53):
Yeah, you push them out of the nest and watch them
either fly or fall.
Emeal Zwayne (14:56):
Yeah.
Ray Comfort (14:57):
Rump stringer or whatever.
Emeal Zwayne (14:59):
Some form of it.
Mark Spence (15:00):
Well, hopefully you've established a
relationship with them that whenyou shot them out, they tend to
kind of come back a little bitright and ask questions.
I had told my son, noah and Ithink I shared this before I
said listen, noah, I'm not hereto rule over you anymore, like
you are two years old, but Iwant to be here to lead you and
(15:21):
to help you.
And he comes by the housealmost daily and I absolutely
love it.
I wasn't expecting it and Isaid Christmas time, you're not
expected to come, or any otherholiday, you're not expected to
come, but you're welcome to come.
And if you do come, we want tomake it worth your while.
There'll be good food.
If you bring kids, the kidsthere'll be presents.
You know, if it's Christmastime, what time do you guys want
(15:42):
me there?
Oscar Navarro (15:44):
Bring.
Emeal Zwayne (15:44):
Oscars, the kid.
Mark Spence (15:47):
I want to have the open communication right.
You're always welcome here andI have plenty of things to say
and to speak into your lifestill, but I'm going to be
somewhat hesitant becausethey're your kids, they're not
my kids, and if you'd like me tospeak into their life or your
life, listen, I have a lot tosay.
Experience has taught me a lotin scripture.
It's taught me even more.
Emeal Zwayne (16:07):
Mark, what prompted you to say that to Noah
?
I mean, was it on a whim or didyou think about it?
Mark Spence (16:13):
No, I heard another preacher say that and I went
wow, I really like it.
And then I just changed it up alittle bit, but I liked that
idea, he Markified it.
Emeal Zwayne (16:24):
Yes, I love that because there's something, I
think, in the human heart thatdraws closer when you give space
and that pulls away when youtry to crowd, and it's just the
whole get away from here from me.
There's something aboutexpectations and putting
(16:49):
expectations on people, and thenit becomes weird, right,
because I mean, imagine and thishappens a lot, especially in
Arab culture like guilt tripsare.
They're like greetings, youknow, it's like it's kind of
like it's not like hey, how youdoing.
It's like why haven't youcalled?
Right, where have you been?
Oh yeah, oh yeah, you sure loveyour mother.
You know, like guilt trips andsarcasm, and then you just don't
(17:13):
know, like are they comingbecause they want to or is it
now?
And it becomes this like weirdcomplicated thing, you know.
So I love that, mark, that'swise and you know, that's why we
didn't go to Ray and Sue'shouse.
We're not going to your house,okay, yeah, so, oscar, you're
(17:34):
headed in that direction and I'dlove to hear your thoughts in
terms of, maybe, what you'vegleaned from some who have had
adult children and what you'vethought on your own Well, so
yeah, my oldest is 15.
Oscar Navarro (17:47):
She's just started her sophomore year of
high school.
I think I'm looking at it maybefrom a different perspective
because I don't have adultchildren yet, but there is a
number of guys in my life thatare in their early to late
twenties and often, you know,when we sit down every now and
then, we'll get into aconversation that they had with
(18:07):
their parents.
And one of the things that Ihear is, for those parents who
are trying to counsel andprovide wisdom, you know, you
hear this hesitation like man,like I feel, like they just need
to let me be an adult, etcetera, et cetera.
And one of the things that Ioften tell them is dude, like I
wish I had Christian parents.
I wish I, you know, I do have.
(18:27):
I mean, my mom claims to be abeliever now, but my
relationship with her is verydifferent because of the way I
grew up.
She's kind of more like anolder sister.
You know, she just never was amom to me.
For those who are new to thepodcast, my mom was struggled
with drug addiction my wholelife and so I just I had a
different kind of relationshipwith them.
But I mean, you know the ideathat you have parents in your
(18:51):
20s that are reaching out, thatare asking how you're doing,
that wanna make sure you have aplace to go to for a meal Like
to me you don't realize theblessing of what you have.
You know, the first time that Imet my biological father, I was
35 years old and probably abouta week after I met him, he
(19:12):
called me and I answered thephone and I'm like, why is he
calling me, you know?
And I get on the phone and he'slike, hey, I'm just calling to
say hi, How's your day.
And I was like, what You'recalling to say hi?
Like it was so foreign to methat a parent would call just to
check in, just to say hi, justbecause they wanted to be a part
(19:34):
of your life.
And so for the young adultwho's trying to figure out his
aspect, his or her aspect, withtheir parents, count your
blessings.
It is a gift that you haveChristian parents that love you,
that are praying for you, thatare advocating for you, that are
checking in on you.
That is a gift from the LordWow.
Emeal Zwayne (19:55):
Yeah, and Ray, how .
I mean, how do we do that, Likehow do we get?
Ray Comfort (20:01):
our kids.
I'm thinking what are you goingto ask me?
Because my children have gotchildren.
Emeal Zwayne (20:07):
Ray forgot what it's like to be a father.
Oscar Navarro (20:09):
I don't handle conflict with your adult
grandchildren, that's right.
Ray Comfort (20:13):
And great-grandchildren.
Emeal Zwayne (20:15):
Yeah, with your senior citizen children.
Ray Comfort (20:18):
So what do you got for me so?
Emeal Zwayne (20:19):
no, my question to you is you know, how do we get
there to a point where our kidsdesire to have our influence in
their lives?
Ray Comfort (20:29):
Don't you think it starts early on like how you
raise them is a big yeah, thisis going to sound very strange
coming from me, but you teachyour children the fear of the
lord and when they fear god.
They put him first and theyhonor their father and mother,
which is the only commandment,with a threat, a threat, promise
, threat.
No, it's a threat.
It's ephesians 6, uh, verse 1honor your father and mother
(20:50):
that all may be well with youand your days may be long upon
the earth.
And saying all will not be wellwith you if you don't honor
your parents and your days willnot be long upon the earth.
So I say that I see that as anot only a suggestion, but a
threat.
This is what's going to happen.
I meet so many young peoplethat that have an absolute mess,
depression and suicidalthoughts.
You love your mom and dad, hatethem.
(21:12):
Well, there you are.
Emeal Zwayne (21:13):
That's what's happening well you know um my
dad, as you guys know, lived to113.
I can't count how many you knowyou better say 113 113 yeah,
let it sink in.
Ray Comfort (21:26):
Yeah, 113 is like.
Oh, whatever, I lived untilit's 13 minutes past one.
Emeal Zwayne (21:30):
Yeah, but and and keeping with what you, keeping
with what you just said, right,I've had so many people say to
me boy, he must have reallyhonored his parents.
You know it's like, but it's sotrue that Scripture singles
that out and says, hey, it's acommandment with promise or a
(21:50):
threat.
The Amplified Bible wouldprobably say that, yeah, it
would, but that God delights inthat.
Yes, god delights in childrenhonoring their parents.
Now, for us, as parents, ouraim in getting them to honor us
is not because we crave honor,but it's because we know that
that's God's best for them.
I crave honor, but you knowwhat I'm saying.
(22:11):
It's, it's, it's, it's all apart of it.
Um Speaking, of that.
Ray Comfort (22:18):
Quite often people say to me what do you mean?
Honor my mom.
My mom was a prostitute.
You're telling me to honor her.
It's a good question, and it isa good question.
But I tell my kids don't honorme, because I deserve honor.
I'm a wretched sinner.
Honor me because God says to.
Oscar Navarro (22:31):
Yeah, honor the office of parenting.
Ray Comfort (22:33):
Yeah.
Oscar Navarro (22:33):
Right, the office of parenting.
So in that situation that's howI look at it right, I have to
honor the office of a parent.
When your parent is fallingshort of the glory of God, when
you have a parent that's not abeliever, that is causing so
much conflict in your life, howdo I honor that person?
Honor the office of parenting,because when you honor the
office of a parent, when youhonor the office of a father,
(22:56):
what you're actually doing ishonoring the fatherliness of
your father in heaven.
Emeal Zwayne (23:02):
Yeah and Mark, this is again becoming like less
and less common, like kidsseeing their parents as a huge
and valuable asset in theirlives, like Oscar was talking
about.
You know, it's when we becomeadults and have our own kids
that we really start realizingit.
Do you have any thoughts on,like, how do we, how do we get
(23:24):
our kids to value honoringparents, like at an early age?
Mark Spence (23:29):
Well, I don't know.
Nothing comes to my head withthat.
I'm still thinking back on thescripture that we just read with
Ephesians 6, you know itdoesn't say to honor your mom
and dad unless your mom is aprostitute and your dad's in
prison.
It's just an emphatic statement.
We just do it Unless they'recalling us to sin.
Yeah Right, we want you to goand steal these sort of things.
(23:51):
I look back on my kids and theraising of my kids and, by God's
grace, all five of my kids arewalking with the Lord.
I think it would do us well tolisten to our kids, to make sure
that they feel like they'rebeing heard and as they speak,
we can now regurgitate.
If you would talk back to them,say, hey, this is what I'm
hearing you say, but here's thetakeaway.
(24:13):
This is what Scripture has tosay.
I think that there's a value inattaching a validity to their
struggles, what they're goingthrough and everything in
between, to nip it right away ifthey begin to disrespect and
dishonor, right.
So I think maybe just startwith that.
(24:34):
Nothing else really comes to myhead Easy.
Ray Comfort (24:36):
Why don't you address that for a minute?
Rebellion and a two-year-oldwhat would you do with that?
Emeal Zwayne (24:41):
Yeah.
Well, I do think that what youdo in terms of investing in your
kids and sewing into them earlyon can have an effect, but that
comes with a big caveat, right.
But that comes with a bigcaveat right Because, as we've
(25:01):
mentioned before, the last thingwe want is for parents who are
listening now, who have adultchildren who have rebelled, to
think that it's necessarily alltheir fault or responsibility.
Of course we can look and say,hey, yeah, you could look back
and say, maybe there are thingsyou did, you could have done
differently.
But there are parents who havepoured their hearts into their
kids.
And again, we've talked aboutthe proverb that's a truism, not
(25:22):
a promise.
Bring up a child in the way heshall go, and when he's old he
won't depart from it.
People think, oh well, I musthave not done that then.
But that's a truism.
That's typical of how thingscan go.
But it's not a promise.
But there's that condemnationof oh man, I must have man.
That's not the case.
There is what I've mentionedbefore.
Ted Tripp talks about shapinginfluences.
And then there's Godwardorientation.
(25:42):
Where, at the end of the day,where's their heart at, and have
they repented and surrenderedto the Lord?
But, having said all that, Ibelieve we can have impact and
influence.
And it begins early on, andsometimes parents do.
It begins early on, andsometimes parents do see kids
who are rebellious and they'reshocked and surprised.
And yet they, at the same time,didn't do what Ephesians 6
(26:04):
mentions.
And you, fathers, do notprovoke your children to wrath,
but bring them up in thetraining and admonition of the
Lord.
And what is the training andadmonition of the Lord for
children?
It's to honor their father andmother, and it's the parents'
responsibility to train them upin that.
And so we have to remember that.
So a two-year-old who'srebelling needs to be corrected
(26:25):
and disciplined, and here's thekey in that.
This is what oftentimes I thinkis a problem in raising children
.
It's that parents are doing itwithout focus.
They're flying by the seat oftheir pants.
So the child does something.
They rebel, no, they saysomething rude to their parent,
even at a very young age, liketwo, and the parent is like, oh,
(26:46):
don't do that, Don't do that.
And they're looking here, there, they're doing things.
When a child rebels, everythingstops.
I mean, it's like pauseeverything.
Ray Comfort (26:58):
Whatever you do, you stop.
Emeal Zwayne (26:59):
He's got a stick of dynamite in his hand.
Yeah, you, you, you crouch totheir level, you give them full
focus and you and you lead andguide them through that with
with tenderness, love and andcourageous boldness.
You know you don't yell andscream, but but that child needs
to.
That doesn't happen, because ifyou're just running around and
(27:20):
your kids are doing stuff,they're getting, they're getting
trained by you, whetherintentionally or unintentionally
, and often unintentionally,that this isn't a big deal.
So of course it'll keep doingit.
And not only will they keepdoing it, it'll become habit,
it'll become rooted and grounded, you know, in their character.
And so, yeah, being, you know,being quick to engage them in
(27:41):
those things and to disciplinethem, but to combine that with
explanation and tenderness andprayer and all that, you know
there's a lot of fruit.
So, but then you know, we getto that place where and I know
that those listening now arethinking through that okay, my
kids are adults, but they'restarting to do things that I
don't really like.
(28:02):
We're not talking about sin,but things that that not
necessarily my preference, suchas, such as you know they are
now maybe.
Oscar Navarro (28:14):
Drinking black coffee.
Emeal Zwayne (28:16):
Ah, that is unacceptable.
That black coffee, that isunacceptable.
Oscar Navarro (28:19):
That's where easy draws the line.
Emeal Zwayne (28:21):
I am fully involved in that.
Mark Spence (28:23):
Like just the way they're raising their kids or
their convictions.
Emeal Zwayne (28:26):
Yeah, the way they're dressing the music
they're listening to, the showsthey're watching or the movies
they're watching.
Oscar Navarro (28:34):
The face tattoos, again.
Emeal Zwayne (28:35):
Yeah, so not sinful actions we're not talking
about.
We're not talking about sinfulthings, but things that are that
are different than than maybewhat we preferred or how we
raise them.
That's the big rub how we raisethem and we.
Why did we raise them that way?
Because we were convinced thiswas best and healthy, right, and
those are our convictions, andobviously they're raising our
home.
So, mark, what do you do withthat?
(28:57):
How do you grapple with?
Obviously we've all seen itwith our adult kids.
Mark Spence (29:01):
Yeah, I think you have to trust the Lord's plan
and his process.
We are all growing at a slowerrate than somebody else whoever
that else person is and we thinkthat we know what is best for
our kids.
Remember, if it's not a sinfulact, then you need to just let
(29:22):
it be what it is.
And if it is a sinful act, well, we need to be careful on how
we address that.
Maybe not address it in likethey're five years old anymore.
Trust the process and trust thepeople that are around them.
So I think that we just need tobe careful and let people be
people.
If we homeschooled our kids, butif my children decide to put
(29:43):
their kids into public school orprivate school or charter
school, it is what it is.
It's just going to be differenton how I'm going to approach
them and their situation.
I'm going to ask more questions, perhaps when my grandchildren
are inside my life, verydirected questions, and if my
kids are able to listen to me,willing to listen to what I have
to say, as to how to lead themand correct them in that or
(30:05):
direct them in that situationand I think they would I think
that.
I think it's going to work out.
Ray Comfort (30:11):
Yeah.
Oscar Navarro (30:11):
You know it's going to be fine.
Mark Spence (30:13):
Especially, listen.
If it's not sin, it's going towork out.
If it is sin, you know addressit.
Oscar Navarro (30:19):
It's also a reminder.
I think I'm starting to get aglimpse of this with two
teenagers.
It's a reminder that ultimately, these kids are not yours.
Right, the Lord has entrustedyou with them, but the Lord is
at work, sanctifying them, and Ithink so often, as parents, we
can turn our kids into trophiesfor our own sanctification.
(30:40):
They need to be the example ofmy righteousness, of my walk
with the Lord, and thereforethey need to look this
particular way.
But ultimately, they're notbeing sanctified in the image of
Oscar.
They're being sanctified in theimage of Christ, and he is
shaping them and creating themand molding them into a person
that doesn't look like me, thatdoesn't maybe dress like me,
(31:03):
listen to the music that Ilisten to or into the same
things, just have a differentimpression of the world.
Yet walking with the Lord, andthat is something rather than to
be afraid of, to be uncertainof, that's something to embrace.
Oh, this is your child, god,and you've saved them and you're
sanctifying them and you'reshaping them into something
(31:24):
totally different, and that isgood and beautiful.
Emeal Zwayne (31:28):
Man, it's so much easier to do that with people
that aren't your kids, like youknow what I mean.
Like, oh, cool, okay, that'sour convention, it's my child,
you know, and.
But what you're saying is sotrue, oscar, like we have to
remember yeah, they are reallyGod's child and we're just all
(31:49):
different.
But, ray, you know, one of thethings that stuck out to me
immediately when I first metRachel, when you were there
present, was her relationshipwith you and her respect towards
(32:10):
you, but also the play had whenI saw you guys talking.
But it, it stood out to me andwhat are some of the things you
did early on with the kids towhere they felt you're
approachable as a dad?
Ray Comfort (32:24):
I let them be adults.
Um, I know, when I was a kid,especially in my early teens, I
hated it being in school beingtold what to do.
I wanted to be an adult wherepeople didn't tell me what to do
, and when I became an adult, Ireally appreciated my own
parents letting me do my ownthing.
At the age of 20, I wanted tobuy a house and they were very
nervous and I said let us dothis, we want our own house.
(32:48):
And they let us do it, and soit was $200.
Mark Spence (32:50):
Yeah.
Emeal Zwayne (32:50):
Well, it was $5,300.
Not far off, martin actually itwas $5,300.
Ray Comfort (32:57):
Wow, we wanted to buy a house for $9,000 on a hill
overlooking the beach and wecouldn't afford it $9,000,.
I look back now, but the wageswere totally different back then
.
It was $5,300.
Sue had money in the bank, sowe used that.
Emeal Zwayne (33:13):
Where was your?
Ray Comfort (33:13):
money.
Yeah, my money was invested inleather jackets.
I'm not kidding.
All the, all the savings I hadI put into making leather
jackets for people and it wastied up.
But we got the house and wedon't regret it.
So I I stand back and lookobjectively at my kids I did and
say they are, they are adults.
They're like what I wanted tobe totally independent, standing
on my own two feet, and we letthem and uh, it's, it's a
(33:35):
blessing to be totallyindependent standing on my own
two feet and we let them, andit's a blessing to be able to do
that.
Oscar Navarro (33:39):
Ray, there must have been nothing more trying
for you when your daughterbrought home a Lebanese man.
What was it like?
Ray Comfort (33:44):
Well, it was like when I said, look, sometimes my
dog will bring things inside,and I just said, well, this is
the way it is.
Emeal Zwayne (33:53):
This is the way it is.
This is the way it is.
Look what the doc dragged in.
Mark Spence (33:57):
Was there ever a moment where you wanted to move
back to Lebanon?
Emeal Zwayne (34:01):
Bring back that memory.
Ray Comfort (34:03):
We've talked about that.
What was the movie that was out?
Emeal Zwayne (34:04):
Not Without my Daughter.
That was the name of the movieyeah, where some woman married a
crazy Arab and they went to theMiddle East and then he
wouldn't let her leave.
I mean, they abused her.
Ray Comfort (34:14):
But that was seriously a wrestle for me.
Am I prepared to just let hergo and let her be an adult
overseas with a loving husband?
Oscar Navarro (34:25):
And I thought no, so I gave him a job.
Emeal Zwayne (34:27):
That was something and I was really serious.
I thought it's what the Lordhad.
And, yeah, I talked to her tooand you know it was hard for
Rachel, but that's what blew mymind is her willingness to
follow me, and then God shot itdown.
Let me share a quote so that wedidn't get literally shot down.
Mark Spence (34:43):
That's right.
Nowadays you would, though.
Oh yes, the turmoil there, paulTripp.
He said the goal of parentingis always to work yourself out
of a job.
The goal of parenting is tosend young adults out into the
world who are prepared to liveas God's children in a salt and
light in a corrupt and brokenworld.
Wow, I like that.
(35:03):
The goal of parenting is towork yourself out of a job.
And now they take over the job.
The goal is to pass off thebaton to them and then to not
necessarily enjoy it from thesides, as they do all the work,
but to uh.
It just plays a different role.
There's a new chapter as aparent when your kids begin to
get older.
Ray Comfort (35:21):
I was going to say that we just had the Olympics,
and I can't stand the passingoff the baton to the guy in
front of always frustratinganxiety.
You know, exactly what'sinvolved.
They drop that thing.
That's years and years of sweatand pain and suffering and
training, and I'd be freakingout Butterfingers.
Emeal Zwayne (35:39):
You would drop it.
You would drop it, well, Iwould throw it to the person.
Ray Comfort (35:43):
Ray would kill someone with it.
Emeal Zwayne (35:44):
Somehow I'm sure, yeah, and you know, I think the
big key too is like when itcomes to convictions as an
example, because that's oftenthe biggest thing, convictions
and is like when it comes toconvictions as an example,
because that's often the biggestthing convictions and decisions
, right, decisions we wouldn'tmake, whether it's financial or
it's locational we're moving orcareer or whatever or
convictions, things they do thatare in that sphere.
(36:06):
But I think it's so importantthat our actions back up what we
should say, because with ourkids, we've told them look,
you're going to make your owndecisions in life and we're
going to honor that.
We're going to step away.
As long as it's not sinful,right, because we still have a
job to speak in each other'slives and, of course, we should
(36:27):
still be able to share concern.
It may not be sin, but we mightsee it heading there or maybe
it doesn't seem wise.
We have to be careful with howwe do that.
It's preferable that we'reinvited to do that.
But I think we have to alsolook and say we're not just
their parents, we're theirbrothers and sisters in Christ
and we should do what we allshould do in that regard.
But go ahead All right.
Mark Spence (36:47):
So I imagine that back.
How do I get back into arelationship with my adult
children, who maybe there'sdifferent scenarios, Maybe
they've completely written offtheir parents or maybe they're
just mom dad, I don't want anyinput from me whatsoever.
We'll see you occasionally.
(37:09):
How do I get my kids back?
Emeal Zwayne (37:11):
Well, it's the four letter Christian filth word
humility.
It's not four letters literally, but humility and I say filth
word because in our flesh it'sjust despised to humble
ourselves if we've donesomething in error with our
children, so to be able to goback and to be willing to admit
(37:34):
mistakes we've made and if wereally honestly don't know what
we might have done, to just seekthem out, like hey, can you
tell me, is there something I'vedone?
I want to make it right.
I love you To go and to reallyseek to do that is huge.
Ray Comfort (37:50):
Yeah, a gift basket would be great.
Oscar Navarro (37:54):
We're handing out gift cards.
Gift baskets yeah, a giftbasket would be great.
We're handing out gift cards.
Emeal Zwayne (37:58):
Yeah, but I was making a point earlier on in
that our actions need to back upwhat we should say to our kids
and that is hey, we're going torespect you and let you be your
own person.
But then we back that up,because sometimes we may say
that, but then our kids do makea different decision and then we
act differently.
Kids do make a differentdecision and then we, we, we act
differently, we give them aguilt trip, we, we get you know,
kind of man, that is wrong.
(38:20):
You know.
We need to just be able to say,hey, yeah, great, that's your
decision and we, we've told youthat's fine and and and just to
to give them that respectbecause at the end of the day,
they have decisions to make.
They can choose to pull away.
Do you want to be a person whoplayed a part in that because of
(38:41):
your lack of graciousness?
Oscar Navarro (38:42):
and humility you know I was talking to.
Kind of your kind of questionreminded me of the other side of
that coin.
And I was talking to a friendrecently, young 20s, and this
person was kind of lamenting howtheir parents like all of a
sudden are wanting to involvethemselves in this new area of
life.
For this this guy you know likeoh he's, he's into this thing
(39:05):
and now all of a sudden theywant to be involved and it just
feels so awkward and weird, andlamenting on how his parents
aren't cool or whatever.
And um, I encouraged him tolook at it differently.
I told him man, honestly, itreminds me of incarnational love
, because when you were a baby,your parents got on their
bellies and played blocks withyou.
(39:27):
They met you where you were.
When you were five years old,your parents played hide and go
seek with you.
When you were 15, they weredriving you to your games and
teaching you how to drive.
And now that you're in yourtwenties, your parents aren't
all of a sudden trying to becool.
They're doing what they'realways have been doing.
(39:48):
They're meeting you wherethey're at.
They're representingincarnational love.
So don't see it as weird.
See it as a beautiful reminderof how God has loved you and
embrace that.
That's the way parents havealways loved their children, and
it's not something to beawkward about.
It's not something to turn yourshoulder on.
(40:08):
It's something to be viewed asyou are being loved by your
parents in the same way God hasloved you, yeah.
Ray Comfort (40:18):
I once heard a preacher say something I'll
never forget.
He was talking about honoringyour mom and dad and he says you
dishonor your mother when shegave up her figure to bear you.
I thought wow you don't realizenine months of suffering so you
could have life, yeah.
Emeal Zwayne (40:32):
I've shared the Arab saying before.
I think that says that theheart of the parent is on the
child, the heart of the child ison the rock, like a worthless
thing, and you start realizingthat as you get older.
My son, Luke, is gettingmarried soon and he just moved
out to secure the place thatthey're gonna have.
He's roommateing with a goodfriend of ours and he was just
(40:53):
so excited and I rememberwalking down the hallway and
looking into his bedroom andRachel was sitting on his bed
bawling her eyes out his lastday at home, you know, and and
that's why you have a dog, yeah,well, I'll tell you.
It hit me because I thought, youknow, luke is so excited and
we're excited, but it's easy tolook and say, well, isn't, isn't
(41:16):
he like sad, isn't he?
And he was actually.
Luke did shed some tears tojust when it hit him like whoa,
this is like permanent.
Now I'm never coming back home.
Um, in a sense, but um, but youknow it's um.
It's where we were when we werekids, right, we weren't
thinking what are my parentsfeeling?
(41:37):
What are my parents goingthrough?
Ray Comfort (41:38):
That's exactly right.
Emeal Zwayne (41:39):
yeah Right, you're just like, yeah, I'm getting
married, getting my own house,whoopee, and so we just have to
remember that and be patient.
But you know, I wanna closereal quick on a note with those
who have adult kids, those stillliving at home.
That's when it's a dilemma,because you know there are other
things outside of convictionsper se and decisions that are
(42:01):
just like behavior.
And how do you not do adisservice to your children who
are living at home by enablingthem to do things that aren't
good for them?
And so I came up with thisthing years ago for our kids,
and I've told our kids look,this is your home for life If
these three things aremaintained.
Number one respect.
(42:21):
We're not going to enable youto dishonor God by living at
home now, even though you're anadult, and to treat us in a
disparaging and disrespectfulway.
So respect.
Secondly, responsibility.
So if you're living at homeright, and especially if we're
not charging you rent, we'redoing that so that we can help
you get set up for the future.
You have to be pursuing acareer, you have to be in school
(42:46):
, you have to be saving money,you've got to be pulling your
weight around the house.
And then, lastly, righteousness.
You live at home.
You claim to be a Christian.
You can't be living in sin, andso my saying is respect,
responsibility, righteousnessand this is your homestead.
Until you're wed, you're deador you're raptured by the
church's head.
(43:06):
Yeah, so I think I've sharedthat before, but it's been a
healthy sort of a guide for ourkids at home and we're grateful
that they've all maintained that.
But it's been a healthy sort ofa guide for our kids at home
and we're grateful that they'veall maintained that and it's
been a joy to see.
But at the end of the day,again, we remember they're God's
kids, we entrust them into Hiscare, we maintain humility and
(43:29):
we maintain respect.
I'll often say that to my kidswhen we're talking or in a text.
I'll say I really respect you.
That's huge to have respectfrom someone, but we as parents
think, oh, I need to berespected.
No, we also need to berespectful toward our kids, to
treat them in a manner thathonors the Lord and walk in true
(43:50):
biblical love.
Take all of the truths ofScripture that apply to one
another as believers and applythem to your children, and I
think the Lord will guide you inwisdom and direct you in that
way.
Very good, very good.
Ray Comfort (44:04):
Very good All right , friends.
Emeal Zwayne (44:06):
That's the end here.
Don't forget why?
Christianity Solving Life'sMost Important Questions.
Living Waters Mug, the EvidenceStudy Bible all at
livingwaterscom Podcasts, atlivingwaterscom podcast.
At livingwaterscom, with allyour thoughts and questions and
all that other good stuff.
Thank you for joining us,friends.
(44:26):
We'll see you here next time onthe Living Waters podcast,
where we have no idea what we'redoing.
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