Bare Bones Banter - Michael's Ovation

Fan Mail Goes Here!!

In this heartfelt episode of 'Bare Bones Banter with the Gaster Girls,' hosts Christine and Sarah interview board members of Michael's Ovation, a nonprofit dedicated to honoring the memory of Michael Schaffer, who died by suicide at the age of 14. The conversation covers Michael's life, his humor, and his love for music, reading, and animals. They dive deep into their emotions, discussing their initial struggles and the eventual creation of the nonprofit. The episode also highlights the importance of talking about mental health, reaching out to others, and the various impactful projects and scholarships funded by Michael's Ovation to promote the causes Michael loved. The guests emphasize the necessity of open dialogue about mental health and the powerful role of community and support during tragic times.

How to find mental health help when you're struggling. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/therapists
https://washingtoncountyhumanservices.com/agencies/behavioral-health-developmental-services
https://www.alleghenycounty.us/Services/Human-Services-DHS/Publications/Resource-Guides
Apps - Just search mental health where you get your apps.
EAP programs are a great place to look for help!!

Additional Resources (Sports Related):
https://globalsportmatters.com/health/2020/12/04/mental-health-resources-2/

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Hello and welcome to Bare BonesBanter with the Gaster Girls.
She stayed quiet through thewhole intro.
That's all the intro I got rightnow.
Well done, Christine.
Applause for you.
That's okay because I'verecorded an intro for all of the
Bare Bones Banter episodes andit'll just play at the
beginning.
Does it talk?
Does it say, hi, welcome to theBare Bones Banter?
Then why did you let me do that?

(00:21):
I felt like you wanted to be apart of it.
All right, you're a jerk.
All right, everybody.
welcome.
This is the fourth interviewthat we've done that we've done.
We've only released two,correct?
This is the third one we've doneand we've only released one.
No.
Fourth?
Fourth.
You're right.
You're right.
It's my day to be wrong.
It's my day to be wrong.
Sorry.
When's the second one comingout?

(00:43):
as soon as we get a thumbs upfrom the person we recorded.
Perfect.
The third one was Michelle andtoday's the fourth one.
We're so good at it.
Anyway, finally oiled machinehere.
Yeah, as you can see.
All right.
So I'll do my actualintroduction to who we're
interviewing today.
Today.
Thank you guys for joining us.

(01:03):
This is, Michael's Ovation,which is a nonprofit
organization in the Pittsburgharea.
Michael's Ovation was created tohonor the memory of Michael
Schaefer, who died by suicide atthe age of 14.
Joining us today are the boardmembers of Michael's Ovation.
we have Heather Schaefer and herhusband, Mike, Tara Lynn.
Is it?
It's Tara, not Tara, correct?

(01:25):
Okay.
Got it.
Okay.
Angela Tyler and Laurie Black.
How do you say your real lastname?
Laurie.
Okay.
So you may have heard us mentionLaurie previously on the podcast
because we grew up across thestreet from Laurie.
I still feel like I was solittle back then.
You were little.
Yeah, you were five yearsyounger than us and that didn't,

(01:47):
six years younger than Laurie, Ithink, that didn't prevent us
from dragging you places.
Like you were just with us.
You were just smaller.
Yeah, I don't really remember aton of it.
I remember quite a bit of it.
I mostly remember you making mecry.
See, Lori remembers this.
Are you talking to Lori rightnow?

(02:08):
no, I'm talking to you in thiscorner, Christine talking to
you.
All right.
This is not about us.
All right.
Whatever.
Get on with it.
And, Heather, Kyle, Heather,Kyle, and I played soccer
together for years.
A lot of years.
And apparently we were reallymean, which I didn't remember.

(02:28):
I remember that.
feedback from opponents was thatwe were brutal.
We were like a tiny gang of ourown.
Like not an Oak Hill gang or aBlaine Hill gang, but a soccer
gang.
I feel like we should mentionthat Heather and Laurie were
like founding members of, inAngela.
We're the founding members ofthe, Blaine Hill gang, I think.

(02:49):
Yeah.
Yeah.
These guys with gangs.
Legit, probably, three of theonly members of the gang.
They were the only members.
There were just a few of us.
There wasn't a whole big teenagepopulation on Blaine Hill, at
the time of us growing up.
But I was trying to think of,what boys would have been
walking around with us duringthose times.

(03:09):
I can't even remember.
Billy Leogas.
No, he's in our gang.
Do you say last names on thepodc don't know if that's a th
want, I can't explain the thing.
Yeah, I was actuall into that.
So for anybody talk about BlaineHill, B grew up.

(03:33):
and for thos religiously, wewere talk and I am So curious as
to the mechanics of the tic tacing.
How do the hard kernels comeoff?
Is that what they are?
Kernels come off?
Like, how do you get them off?
I feel like that's not easy.
Go ahead, Angela.
You can share this one.
Do you remember taking thekernels off of the cob?

(03:54):
So anyway, we would go up intothe field like you were right,
we would go up into thatfarmer's field that's at the top
of Blaine Hill and I don'tliterally remember like how we
got the corn back to a house.
We must have taken bags or Idon't know, did we stick it in
our pockets?
I don't know what we did, but wewould take the whole thing, the

(04:14):
cob and everything back to onefriend's house and sit in her
basement.
And she would have a big fivegallon buckets down there and we
would just it was easy as far asI can remember.
Now I totally cannot rememberlike taking the corn off of the
cob, so it must have been fairlyeasy to do that because that's
not a strong memory in my head.

(04:35):
But we would just put it all inthese five gallon buckets.
And then we would take likeclean tube socks and stuff the
tube socks with corn, rightAnge?
I forgot about the tube socks.
Does that sound familiar?
That's what we did, right?
Oh yeah.
That's how we got corn around, Ibelieve.
And the buckets were alreadyready.

(04:56):
I had nothing to do with that,that I remember, but.
No, they were ready.
I didn't have to be involved inthat.
Yeah, I don't know who did thatunless somebody gave them to us,
but they knew what we were goingto do.
then we would fill them up inthe box and then we would just
walk on throughout theneighborhood, get a can full of
corn, throw it at someone'shouse.

(05:17):
It was always way funner if theywould like Turn on the lights or
come out and then you would run.
But honestly, most of the timewe would just throw it and walk
down the road and put it at thenext house down the road.
Like a parade.
Yes.
Like aluminum or something,because then, you would hear it.
And we were only, if I remember,we were only excited if the

(05:37):
light turned on, because ifthere was no light turn on, then
it was just, but as soon as thelight would turn on, we're like,
yes, go.
Yeah, so we probably did thatlike every weekend night of
October.
Yeah.
we, it would have been funny atthe time to have a Apple watch
to see how far we walked.

(05:58):
that's all we do.
We would just walk all overBlaine Hill, we would, sometimes
we'd go into Oak Hill, butmostly it was just Blaine Hill.
With your tube socks.
So like by the end of it, youjust look like Homie the Clown
walking around with a tube sockwith a little bit of corn left,
like you could go beat kids andshit with it.
Or go to pick up more corn.
That's fantastic.
And who thinks who's, who says,Oh, let's fill the tube socks up

(06:22):
with the corn.
No clue.
I just.
We've always done it this way.
This is tradition.
And I don't even know where itstarted, who started the idea of
doing this.
And there had to have been,Angela, there had to have been
boys walking around with us,because I don't think it would
have just been us.
Me, you, Leanne.
No, it doesn't seem like there,there had to be others.

(06:44):
The only boy I can think ofwould have lived, by the fire
hall, Brad.
I could think of him doing it,but I don't know what other boys
would have done it.
I know we can't say names, soI'll just go with a nickname,
Guy.
Who?
Guy?
The guy that lived across fromDenise, he never did stuff like
that.
No, he didn't do that.
All right.

(07:04):
So that's a little bit about howwe all know each other.
And, I didn't realize likeHeather, I did remember you once
I saw you not like a ton, butyour face was definitely
familiar to me.
So that's what that's from.
it's from the soccer, the gameof soccer.
Yeah, for sure.
all So why don't we get into it?
I just, the next part I have alittle, my outline that I'm

(07:25):
following.
I just want to open it up foryou guys to talk a bit about
Michael.
I know, we didn't really writeanything down when we met, just
had an open discussion abouthim.
And I really loved listening toyou guys tell stories about him
and the things that I reallyremember, or the two things I
wrote down are his kindness andhis humor.
Because it just, the humorousthings that you were telling me,

(07:47):
I am sad that I didn't get tomeet this kid because, it, like
the whole Sis, I did this, I,you weren't here, but I made
this little thing this morningto put in because of the
toothbrush that he put in hisear when he was trying to act
like he had the, I, air pod,whatever.
anyway, I'll just say, Heather,I'll let you go ahead and start,

(08:07):
and, Heather and Mike, if youwanna lead us in some stories
about Michael.
Yeah.
I'll tell you first, like Mikeand I met online.
19 years ago, 20 years ago, andso the internet had just been
invented not too long beforethat.
Yes, we were both widowed at thetime and young widows at the
time.

(08:28):
And, that's how we met andstarted talking and eventually
Mike moved up here and, I hadTyler to my first marriage and
my husband died when Tyler wastwo.
And, Mike left Tennessee, movedup here, had Michael, got
married, had Michael, and, sothen we were, all four of us
here together, and, Michael, I'msorry, I'm saying, all the time

(08:49):
here, We'll cut those out.
Okay, thank you.
Michael was, hilarious, he was14, he died in February of 2020.
He was just ornery as the day islong.
He was funny.
when I say kind, Michael waskind sometimes to some of us

(09:10):
and, some of us he would be, alittle shit too.
Until we got along.
Yeah.
Until when you were around.
With me, I could do no wrongwith Michael.
if I would have said the sky waspurple, Michael would have
argued with him about it, and weboth would have ganged up and
said, the sky is purple, whatare you looking at?

(09:30):
and we were, Then we'd getalong, and it'd be totally
different.
He said, Dad, I have to do thatbecause Mom doesn't forgive me.
he was like my backup, Yeah, hewas my backup.
So he was just funny as can belike, there's so many funny
Michael stories.
I'll tell you guys, I'll tellthem the story of the AirPods.
Like he went to school one dayand, I don't know.

(09:52):
I think it was math class inmiddle school.
And I don't know what thepurpose of this was other than
to make people laugh.
But he, put in, took Mike's.
Toothbrush holder, the top ofthe toothbrush holder and put it
in his ear to act like it was anair pod.
I'm sure so that he would get areaction from the teacher and
the other kids, telling him totake the air pod out.

(10:14):
it wasn't an air pod.
It was the top of a toothbrush.
just things like thatconstantly.
up to the day, even past where,when he died, he was, he took a
Bluetooth to school, put it inhis backpack, was making these
crazy sounds.
Walking around with a Bluetoothspeaker in his backpack, playing
music, in his backpack, andacting, of course, like he had
no idea.
It wasn't music, it was strangesounds, like, where people was

(10:37):
looking like, where's that soundcoming from?
Yeah.
I love that.
And I just, I think the thing Ilove about that the most is just
that you say, just to get areaction out of somebody,
because I feel like that's shitI did growing up and middle
school when this one Englishteacher had a substitute, he
took Vaseline and wiped down allof her stuff with Vaseline.
And he said dry erase markers,but he would have just did a

(11:00):
little bit, but he did all thelockers, her pencils, her desk,
everything.
He said, we're going to be, amonth from now, we'll be filling
Vaseline somewhere.
Finding Vaseline everywhere,yes.
Oh my.
Yeah, and I remember getting, Idon't know if it was that call I
got, or another call I got fromthe principal, and it would,
he's of course his number comesup, and I'm like, hello.

(11:23):
He's Heather.
I'm like, yes, what now?
And literally that was, I'm surethat middle school principal, he
was so nice, but he just wasprobably like, Oh my gosh, this
kid.
Then I got a call from, what wasit?
The math teacher.
And he said, Mike, I guess theywere, he was writing problems on
the board and nobody could getthem.
And, he said, does anybody knowwhy nobody knows this answer?

(11:43):
Mike raised his hand.
He said, because you don't knowhow to teach.
And he was like, what?
He goes, if you knew how toteach, at least one of us would
get it.
So that tells me that you didn'tget it.
So he's, he called me, he goes,you just got to tell him, he was
right, I thought about it.
He was right, because if I didteach it right, at least
somebody would have got it.

(12:04):
He said, but.
You gotta teach him how, whatnot to say.
He had no, filter, I shouldn'tsay it this way, I should say it
this way.
There was no, nothing like this.
know your audience is one of mythings.
No, whatever popped in Michael'shead, that's what would come out
of his mouth, yes.
Yeah, and he was little, wewould, we tried sports when he
was younger, and Michael wasvery ADHD.

(12:26):
And, oh my goodness, we'd spendthe whole entire practice
listening to a coach say hisname over and over.
Michael, Mike, let's, okay, wecan't do this.
eventually we gave up.
we tried everything.
We tried, soccer.
We tried football.
We tried swimming.
He was at football practice onetime and he was little.
He was only maybe like first orsecond grade.

(12:46):
He like listening to the coach,whatever.
And then he's off, then he'slike laying in the ground is
like on the, on his back andhe's fooling around and the
coach yelled at him and supernice guys.
Michael, you're not listening tome.
He's I heard you the first timeyou explained it.
And he repeated his directionsright back to him.
But he had to, of course, keepsaying it over and over again.

(13:07):
Michael's I heard you the firsttime, and repeated the play,
knew what was going on, and he'sand then he's checked out.
Then he's done.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Then there was a girl sitting infront of him at class, and he
would take her phone.
I told him.
Oh, did you?
the story.
Go ahead.
You can talk to him.
Yeah, but tell it.
Yeah.
any story that you told us, feelfree to share again, because
this is all new for ourlisteners.
share it.
Or he took the phone, took aselfie of him, and sent it to

(13:27):
her mother.
Took her phone out of herbackpack, took a picture of
himself, took a picture ofhimself, sent it to the mom,
from the girl, acting, and he'swriting, hello to the mom, and
she didn't know until she gothome from school that Michael
had taken her phone and sent apicture of himself to her.
So goofy.
He was in swimming when he waslittle.

(13:48):
We did swimming one year.
you think that's going to bebetter because, there's all that
talk about swimming is better ifyou have ADHD because you can do
your own thing.
And, Oh no, that's not reallybecause of that, because
essentially they still want youto do so that your team can
score a high, you're stilldependent on the team.
And, Michael did not really haveany care of the team and always

(14:08):
the last one out of the lockerroom because the last one out of
the pool.
So at the end of the practice,they're all doing these laps at
the end of the practice, they'redoing their own laps and, he is
just like flopping around in thewater and I'm like, what in the
hell is he doing and it's takingforever and it's, so he gets,
eventually gets out, I'm waitingthere, legit, 45 minutes after

(14:32):
every single practice to getMichael out of the locker room
where he is now left behind like17 things, water dripping
everywhere.
So we're walking out.
I'm like, Mike, what were youdoing at the end of practice?
what stroke were you doingthere?
And he's the coach said we coulddo whatever stroke we wanted.
okay, what stroke were youdoing?
I was doing the octopus.
Michael, he meant Yeah.

(14:53):
You could do the backstroke.
Freestyle.
We did not mean, make your ownstroke up.
That kid was gifted.
He was gifted, yes.
He was gifted.
when we I could have sworn,like, when he was little, I
could have sworn Michael wasgonna be like, weird.
I used to be like, he's gonnahave such trouble with school
and learning because My olderson Tyler like loved books, like

(15:15):
he would sit down, we would readbooks, he would memorize
everything, like he just lovedthat.
Where Michael could sit for 30seconds and then boom, he's
gone.
And I thought for sure, I'mlike, he's gonna have so much
trouble like learning, it'sjust, it's not gonna be the
same.
Tyler was so easy to teach howto read and Michael, I'm like,
it's not gonna be the same.
I was at preschool one daypicking him up and the teacher's

(15:37):
he is so bright.
And I'm like, who are youtalking about?
We could get through the letterE in the alphabet.
we could not do anything.
there was no me teaching himanything at home.
And, yeah, by the time he gotinto kindergarten and he had the
most patient kindergartenteacher.
And like just so sweet and kindand she figured out yeah, he

(15:58):
really, his kindergarten teacherand his first grade teacher and
his librarian at his elementaryschool, they were just like so
beyond kind and patient withhim.
Even like now we have likewonderful memories of them.
They figured out yeah, he'sreally bright.
Like we're going to, this kid'sgoing to, he can do this, he can
do things.
And she said, when you.
You hear about, say, CEO,president or something, how they

(16:21):
were when they grew up.
She said that's what Mikeyreminded her of.
Yeah, really bright.
Yeah, really bright.
Love to read.
once we figured out, okay,sports were not Michael's thing.
Never.
He didn't like to watch them.
He didn't like to be aroundthem.
He did not like to play them.
But once, yeah, once we figuredout, What his thing was and then

(16:42):
we got into like he got intoreading and he would do reading
competitions and things likeThat was much more like suited
for him.
Michael was just, really, hehad, he had his quirks and he
was definitely a quirky kid.
And, but he loved to learn, heloved to read.
Hug.
Yeah.
He was real loving, like hewould still sit on top of my
lap, even at 14 years old andsit on top of me like, the last

(17:05):
Thanksgiving we had, I havepictures of him sitting on top
of me legit, like we're watchingthe dog show, we watched the,
parade, and then we watched thedog show and legit sitting like
right on top of me, so yeah, hewas real loving like that kind
of, yeah.
and he never wanted you to bemad at him either, like he'd do
anything like he didn't like tofight.

(17:27):
He'd like to fight, but not Heliked to instigate things.
Instigate, I like that too.
Tar, I can tell you like onceTar and him would start like
jabbing each other, there waslike no quitting.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Worst taser.
He just shoves his fingers inyour side as hard as possible.
And no matter what you do, it'slike you would not stop.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's like a dog on a bone.

(17:48):
Yeah.
Yeah.
but Michael, like we, we neverreally, aside from like Warren
Ray getting in school troublekind of things, we never really
had any.
No, never major issues with him.
he was only 14, it wasn't longbefore he died that he was
having a lot of trouble,sleeping at night and like he
would be up until two or threein the morning, and then had a

(18:10):
really hard time getting up forschool in the morning and things
like that.
and eventually we've said, doyou want to go talk to somebody
about we would give himmelatonin, going through all
these like things and it wasn'thelping him.
You want to go talk to somebodyabout it?
He was like, yeah, that would bea good idea.
So we started going to see acounselor to talk a little bit
about what was going on, was itanxiety?
Was it, what was happening withhim?

(18:31):
And, they gave him like a lowdose of an antidepressant.
And, that was only a monthbefore he died.
Not long, like we didn't evenreally get a chance to figure
out like anything really, likehe did not tell us that anything
was really going on with him.
what was he upset about?
What was he thinking about?
Was there anything upsettinghim?

(18:51):
Because you wouldn't reallyknow.
He was just being his normal,like goofy, silly, cracking joke
self.
And they gave him theantidepressants for sleep,
right?
Not depression, right?
It was mostly like to help himsleep at night.
Maybe like some anxiety issuesand like to calm his brain down
before he would go to sleep kindof thing and not get worried and
stressed.

(19:11):
And then, that how that goes,you're up at night and then
you're sitting there looking atthe clock and you're worried
because you haven't slept and,made it worse and worse.
so we really did not like, hedidn't talk to any of his
friends about anything.
this really came out of theblue.
Like, when he was little, hewould say stupid things like,
Oh, I'm going to kill myself.
I hate to use that word, nowthat we know not to talk like
that.
I've always felt like that was aweakness.

(19:33):
You know how everybody has aweakness, whether it's alcohol,
whatever the weakness is.
I've always felt because I'vetold you that.
Yeah, I didn't have any feelingslike that.
But, as a, I just felt somethinglike that was a weakness that
we'd have to watch out for.
I never thought to this extent.
I just thought, Yeah, and hewould say those like offhand

(19:56):
remarks, but he was like, 12,And it wasn't anything like, but
sometimes you hear these offhanded remarks is what people
really think.
Breaking this ripping up mad,like a place, Matt, and he's
where did where did Where didMichael get the ADD from?
Because I think it's genetic,but I'm just, just We were two

(20:16):
peas in a pod.
He was, he was the only person Ithink I felt really connected to
that thought like I did.
like we were, Since he's gone,it's hard to find, I don't know.
Yeah.
I don't know.
If you want, I can start, movingyour stuff around and doing
things to annoy you.
Like that.
I can handle that one.
Michael loved, So adorable.

(20:36):
Michael loved, Double StuffOreos.
He loved, Dinosaur ChickenNuggets.
Those were like, every day hehad to eat dinosaur chicken
nuggets.
And when Michael lovedsomething, he would be on it.
he would eat it until he couldnot eat it anymore.
Cosmic Brownies.
Cosmic Brownies.
Honey Buns.
But then when he was done withit, it was like, boom, I'm done.
I'm never having that everagain.

(20:57):
You know what I mean?
It's I'm like, how can you justnever eat a Cosmic Brownie
again?
Okay, I read one time that it, Ishouldn't eat those things, so
now I'm never gonna eat itagain.
Okay.
a ADD thing, hardcore.
yeah.
Water.
Okay, we had to have, Fijiwater.
Because He did a water study orread a water study, and it

(21:18):
talked about all the differentalkalines in water and the best
tasting water and the worsttasting water.
So we can only have Fiji waterfor him because that was
supposedly the best tastingwater.
So that's what I drink.
That's awesome.
Water to me.
I don't taste the difference inwater.
I feel like I'm going to drinknothing but Fiji water now,
right?

(21:38):
So it sounds right.
I just want to touch onsomething that you guys said.
So when you're, when your kidslike 12, 13, 14, they, it's so
hard to tell what's concerningand what's just teenage
bullshit, right?
what are you're a demon to me?
80 percent of the time.
and I had a girl, so obviouslyreally different.

(21:59):
Yeah.
you're a demon to me 80 percentof the time and I'm not sure
what's like normal teenage stuffand what is like something that
I really need to be concernedabout because, similar to you
guys.
we always had some underlyingsort of mental health issues
with Olivia, but, before sheattempted suicide, we had.

(22:19):
the idea that she would even dosomething like that was so far
beyond the realm of anythingthat I would have expected
because she's 14.
yeah, sure.
She's gonna pop off aboutkilling herself and pop off
about how, what bad parents weare, how hard life is so hard.
And, I think that's somethingimportant for people to be aware

(22:39):
of that.
There's just no good way to,you're their parent, you're with
them all the time and there'sjust no good way to be like, I
don't know how to deal withfiguring out what's going to be
the most concerning until you'reable to look back on it and be
like, oh yeah, now I can see nowlike looking back on it.
I'm like, oh, there's 14 thingsthat weren't just normal teenage

(23:00):
stuff.
But if she wouldn't haveattempted suicide, I never would
have thought about them again.
Like it's just hard.
Yeah.
And he was, yeah.
Not our like moody child, right?
Like he was not, I'm sure Tywon't mind me saying Tyler was
much more moody than Michael.
Michael was just funny and goofyand silly and hard to take

(23:20):
seriously, But he never like.
other than saying those things,but again, it would be like,
okay, here I am playing thisgame with a group of kids at
school and he says somethinglike that, which was alarming to
a teacher or something.
They were like, oh, my goodness,and they would call us.
We're like, what?
He's not, we don't see anythinglike that.
he's not, it wasn't until reallyhe was having trouble sleeping

(23:41):
that it got us worried.
And even then we were notthinking this is what's going to
happen.
We just thought it was like whatyou were just saying,
describing, it was just being ateenager.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You're growing up.
You're liking girls now.
you're trying to fit in a group.
And we thought low anxiety.
Yeah.
I can tell you about, are youokay with me talking about the

(24:02):
day Michael died?
Yep.
Okay.
Are you guys, it's totally up toyou guys, whatever you want to
share with us.
We, and again, if we talk aboutit and you decide after, you
guys will listen to this beforewe release it.
So if you listen to it and youdecide you don't want to share
that information with ourlisteners, we can go back and

(24:23):
take it out.
So you guys share with us whatyou want to, and we'll fine tune
it all before we release it.
Mike was going to Texas for workand I never, rarely went on work
trips with him.
at the time, he was going to alot of different, he was going
to a lot of different places andI never really went with work
trips.
it was always him working andtraveling and I was home with

(24:44):
kids.
And Tyler was in college and,Michael was 14.
And he was going to Texas and Ihave never been to Texas and I'm
like, I want to go to Texas,that would be cool to see, like
he was going to San Antonio.
I'm like, I want to go to theRiverwalk.
I want to do the Alamo, allthose things.
so we decided that he was goingdown for the week and I was
going to come down for theweekend and just have a long

(25:04):
weekend with him.
And Michael was with my mom anddad for the weekend.
And, we were getting ready tocome home.
We were, that, okay.
So COVID was just.
Starting like we were watchingit on television while we were
down there, like the hotel, theywere talking about it was this
was February like 24th 25th iswhen Michael died and so it was

(25:25):
literally like, you're justhearing about it.
we saw one couple at the airportmasks on and everybody was like,
oh, stay away from those people.
nothing like it wasn't reallyhere yet.
And So we were coming home andtexting Michael, like it was
Monday night and we were cominghome that night and, texting
him.
can't wait to see you.
He's texting.
I can't wait to see you guys.

(25:45):
What time are you going to behome?
everything's normal.
My parents had him that wholeweekend.
And then that was Monday night.
I told my mom, don't worry aboutcoming over because or taking
him with you because we're goingto be home.
We're on our way home.
He's fine.
And we, got to the airport inPittsburgh, and, our ring
camera, somebody was at our ringcamera, and Mike was getting a

(26:07):
message that the police were atour ring, he could see the ring
camera, the police were at ourring camera, and, he said, hey,
there's the police at the ring,on the camera, so we stopped, we
were going down the escalator togo get our bags, and we stopped,
and, I called, I'm calling overand over again, he's not
answering, Mike's talking to thepeople through the ring camera,

(26:27):
like they got a welfare calls.
One of his friends had called orone of his friend's parents had
called and, they wanted us, theywanted to come check on him.
And, he had died.
while we were coming home, wehad to drive that whole way.
from Pittsburgh airport.
Nobody really got back on thecamera with us after that.
Like we let them in the house,gave him the code to get into

(26:48):
the house and we could see themcoming and going.
but nobody would stop and talkto us, so we knew right then
when there was nobody ambulancespulled up and stuff.
I think we knew nobody was likerunning.
Nobody was stopping.
Even though we're talking intothe camera, you can hear us on
the microphone.
Nobody's stopping to answer us.

(27:08):
So we knew it was gone.
I called my parents.
They came over pretty quick.
yeah, and he had, he had died inthat meantime.
And no, we don't know reallywhat happened.
it was just we don't know iflike I've heard it since
explained like, like you canhave a, you have a heart attack
that you can have a brain attackand something happened at that

(27:31):
moment and he just decidedthat's what he was going to do.
And, he was gone and, I talkedto him that day and I felt it
was weird.
It was blank.
It was just more blank.
Then, so I asked him, I said,what's going on?
Because he said, can Grammy gohome because you guys are going
to be in, what, about midnight?

(27:52):
There's no sense of her being atthe house and you guys, are
sleeping on the couch orwhatever.
And I said, what are you doing?
Throwing a party without yourdad?
just joking around and he neverjoked back.
And, I thought that was reallybizarre.
Now that you think about it.
Yeah, now that I think about it.
no, at the time I thought it waswrong.
I said, what's wrong?
I said, I'm trying to talk tohim.
He said, I'm just a teenager,Dad.

(28:12):
You know how we are.
it's one of them that, justthings about being a teenager.
Then I just chalked it up.
It's okay.
Yeah, again, that's just it'ssomething you don't think you
would never like you were sayingyou wouldn't really know.
There's no red.
There was no really.
Even when we look back now, wehad history for three years on

(28:34):
his phone.
I went through Every singlething, every social media, I
mean in detail.
There was nothing.
Nothing.
There's nothing.
Because people ask me all thetime, they'll be going through
the same thing, and I'm like, Idon't really know what to say,
or what to look for, or signs.
The only thing I can think of isthese little one off comments.

(28:56):
you were saying the teacherswere saying something, maybe.
That's the only thing, but Idon't know how you How would we
have stopped something we didn'teven know was happening, right?
And that's the thing is thatyou're not looking, nobody's
looking for that.
Like we always say, it's so mucheasier when you have a broken
bone, you know what the hellyou're looking for, you know

(29:16):
what's happened, that's easy totreat.
But as parents, this isn'tsomething that we want to think
about or that we ever think thatwe need to really think about.
So it's really.
It's difficult and we had likediscussions, because he had
started seeing a therapist,we're talking about those kind
of things.
We're really open about, youjust have to, if you start
taking this medicine and youdon't feel normal and you don't

(29:38):
feel like yourself, you have tolet us know because we can try
something different, so we don'treally know what, that's
something I would, if anybodygets out some of this pet
podcast, if they do start, antidepressants, really watch him
because, that's one of the sideeffects.
It says right there.
But we really, he didn't tellus, he's feeling this way.

(30:00):
So how would we know?
And he didn't tell his therapisthe was feeling this way, yeah,
we talk a little bit in the.
Some other episodes that how,just how hard it is.
Like medication is just hard.
You can't, because it's not abroken bone.
Like you can't put it, you can'tsay, Oh, we've splinted it.
It'll grow back.
like it's supposed to now, likeeven something as simple as an

(30:22):
antidepressant that's beenaround forever and ever.
Like we had to go throughseveral cycles.
After an extended period of timeto where Olivia is like, this
doesn't work and I hate it.
And, yeah, what do we do now?
somebody else in our familydeveloped a terrible allergic
reaction to their, to theirmedication two and a half years
into it.

(30:42):
Like medication is great andmedication will help you.
But medication also needs to belike.
have to understand what you'redoing and you have to understand
that you gotta check inrepeatedly.
It's not a splint on a brokenbone.
You're messing around withchemistry in your brain and your
brain's really a mystery.
Yeah.
And we like, it was so new.
Like it had not even, and Idon't think that, it was so new,

(31:04):
like we hadn't filled that yet.
You know what I mean?
Even like months into it, theylike two weeks.
Yeah, Two weeks.
Yeah.
Like it wasn't any, So I, Ithink did a stupid thing.
He made a mistake and then, youcan't take this mistake back.
it was just like for whateverreason, whatever reason he had
that day.
and it was done, and there's nochanging it.

(31:26):
I read, I don't know if you, youdid this to where you read, I
read like a probably over athousand suicide letters, that
people wrote on line and stufflike that.
Just to try to figure it out.
what, how can I help somebody?
There's just, some of them justsaid, I got a toothache.
That's all it was.
simple as a toothache.
it was, So it's so personal,right?
It's so different for everybody.
And, even now, four years later,we still don't have four and a

(31:50):
half years later.
We still don't, we're nodifferent than we were that
first day of knowing why thishappened and why Michael did
this.
And other than yes, Michael hadADHD.
He was very impulsive, yeah.
Yeah.
I'll, yeah.
I don't know if I shared thiswith you guys while we were
eating dinner, but, Olivia waskind enough to, to leave us,

(32:10):
some notes and, I will tell youthat the note was all about how
everything wrong in her life wasa direct result of what shitty
parenting, we had put into, andshe'll tell you that, That
wasn't at all what washappening.
So even when they leave you anote, the note isn't note isn't
the thing.
She's I was just in so much paininside and I didn't know how to

(32:36):
like, adequately express it.
So I just called you a shittymom and then I thought that you
would feel bad for the rest ofyour life because you couldn't
help me.
Yeah.
And you don't even know how, youdon't even know what was going
on to help you or, help or toget you to a person that could
help you, I know this washappening, probably like I would
say okay, did we see him likebeing really silly right

(32:58):
beforehand, but he was alwayshad that attitude.
Like he always had that.
I'm just goofy.
I'm saying jokes.
He's been doing that since hewas very young.
So it's not like even that waslike, that's out of the norm.
For him carrying the speakeraround in his backpack, right?
It's been normal, right?
you're, it's not like it's notlike you spend every single
minute of every single dayfocused on your child's

(33:20):
behavior.
When they're 14, you're like,dude, you're just about cooked.
I got other stuff.
I got to take care of.
if something's big, I'mexpecting you to be able to talk
to me and.
Yeah, you're like, you're goingon work trips.
You're like, you're fine withyour grandparents and you should
be because you're I'm working,you're working, you're going to
school, and maybe if you didn'tdo anything else the entire day,

(33:43):
like cook or clean or take careof another child or maintain a
relationship with Mike, youwould have been like, Oh, yeah,
that's strange.
But who?
Nobody is equipped to do that.
None of us.
it's like when they're growing,you don't notice it.
they don't fit in their pantsanymore, their shoes are too
small, we, yeah.
And that's the thing, like it's,I think that's what we're doing

(34:05):
here and that's what we want todo.
we can't define it.
We don't know exactly what totell everybody to do.
we don't know, but what we doknow is that we can get the word
out there and that we can get anaudience and that we can get
people to understand that we asparents need to talk to our kids
and not again, not saying thatwill fix it, but we just need to
get the awareness out there and,we need to not ignore this shit

(34:29):
and we need to talk about it andwe need to get the kids aware of
it.
I think a lot.
throughout our lives, we'veignored it so much and that it's
just like they're, they don'twant to talk to us about it.
again, not saying that this iswhat causes it, but hopefully
getting this out there andtalking more and getting to
parents who do that, who push itdown, who ignore it, getting to

(34:52):
those parents will help andgetting to the kids who, who
aren't as aware of it will help.
and the interview that's comingout, our next interview that's
going to be coming outhopefully, in the next week is
with, the AFSP, the AmericanFoundation for Suicide
Prevention.
and that's what she does.
she gets out to schools and getsthose audiences.

(35:14):
And I feel like that's what ourjob is when I say our job.
Me and Sissy, like we need toget people to listen that there
are people who will come out anddo this.
unfortunately, in our community,not a couple weekends ago, we
had, two student athletes, diefrom suicide.
not in our school, but inneighboring schools.

(35:36):
and one was 14, one, I believewas 17.
He was a senior.
one had played The girl was agoalie, played soccer at, at a
local school and one of thethings, like I reached out to
Owen's soccer coach and said, Iwanted to reach out to the
school to get AFSP into schoolbecause as far as I'm aware,

(35:57):
there's never, they don't do,they haven't done that at our
school.
In the meantime, do you think wecan have her come talk to our
boys and their parents?
I feel like that's important,too, is that we get parents
involved.
It's not just, we can't just putit on the kids.
We need the parents to be awarethat, this is happening, and you
need to talk to your kids aswell.
Michael, after Michael died, Ithink, all of the kids at his

(36:18):
high school, really did a greatjob of realizing that it's okay
to not be okay.
they write a message out therethat it's okay to not be okay.
and they talked about it andthey didn't, of course, it was
right when Covid happened.
So then they were off.
Michael died in February.
Those kids came back to schoolfor a couple of weeks and then
they were done.
but all throughout the time thatuntil, even now, I was going to

(36:42):
say up until the time that thekids he was in school with would
have graduated.
they just all, I think, werereally open with talking about
it, which, is wonderful.
Yeah.
they'll, try to do things nowto, make sure that Michael's
memory stays out there.
But honestly, Michael willforever be with those kids.
Yeah.
never forget where they werewhen they heard or what that

(37:05):
felt like afterwards.
And his school, was wonderful.
Like his principal, counselors,everybody just wonderful in not
being afraid to talk about it,which I think before, that was
such a thing like, oh, we can'tmention it because if we mention
it, that might make anotherchild want to, I think they've
got They realize that wasn't theway to do it, not just ignore it

(37:25):
and pretend like he wasn'taround.
Like they were just did so manythings, to try to help the kids
there and, to try to help us.
And then when Michael graduatedor would have graduated, like
they remember him at hisgraduation, like they honored
him, like they had a seat forhim and they mentioned him by
name.
And that's not something thathappens everywhere when a

(37:46):
student dies by suicide, thatthey often want to ignore it and
Bill Vernon didn't do that.
Like they don't, we'll neverknow like how much that meant to
us, like the graduating year andthe kids that mentioned their
speech, they'll never know whatthat was like, just knowing that
he wasn't.
The library, just what they doto the library.
Yeah.
We can talk about like that.

(38:08):
Yeah.
And that's great.
And that's bell Vernon, right?
That's what's okay.
And I thought you said that theyput a bench out in the, front of
the school with the one 800number, 800 number on it, the
suicide hotline number.
And, Yeah, you don't see a lotof schools are doing.
what do I know?
But it seems there's more of a,an ignoring, yeah, it's just,
that's not, I'm not sayingthat's a school's fault because

(38:30):
they just don't know.
No, yeah.
Just like we didn't as adults,we wouldn't have known right
until it happens in your rightin your family.
You don't know that it's okay totalk about it and they didn't
know either and they don't wantto risk.
Another student dying.
So they thought for a long timethat it would just be better to
not talk about it and, I don'tknow who they all reached out

(38:51):
to, but they surely figured out,Michael school figured out, it
wasn't the best thing to justignore it and pretend yeah, I'd
love that.
I think losing children,especially children is as young
as Michael is, Tragic.
And I don't know how I don'tknow how you guys have stayed as
positive and is open as youhave.

(39:11):
But I think that's the importantthing that comes out of it.
The work you do after the workthat Heather, you were able to
get together with Tara andLaurie and Angela and let them
help in and let them heal byputting together some of the
stuff that Michael's ovationdoes and then just being as open
and supportive of the efforts ofthe school and being able to

(39:33):
talk about it and not shy awayfrom it.
I think that's the that's thepositive that comes out of it,
giving me the opportunity tocome in and say, Hey, yeah, this
is terrible and this is tragicand we don't want this to happen
to anybody else.
And the way that I think we getthrough that and past it is to
be able to have those open andhonest conversations like it to
not have to.

(39:54):
Not have to whisper the wordsuicide, not have to whisper,
oh, mentally ill, to not have tocontinue to think of these non
broken bone injuries as noninjuries.
so somebody at the funeral saidthat to me, something about
being mentally ill.
And I, I was floored.
I like, I never thought that, Inever, like that.

(40:18):
It just wasn't something Ithought about like I never just
it floored me like it left mespeechless for a minute, it's
like You'll hear a lot of badstuff that wasn't bad, but
you'll hear bad stuff wherepeople We were riding a bike one
day and this guy He just prettymuch said I had a shirt on.
Yeah, so it's not suicideprevention like a he was like a

(40:39):
walk What is the box?
What do they say like I'm gladthey But they do die.
I wish they'd all just killherself, Yeah.
A guy on a bike, said, Stop.
We were, like, getting on ourbikes or getting off our bikes,
and he was getting on or off orsomething like that and said,
They should just let them alldie.
Yeah.
that's what they want to do.
Yeah, that's what it was.
What?
A dick.
Oh, yeah.

(41:00):
I hope he was.
I hope that guy gets giantblistering boils on his
buttocks.
But let's face it, that's how alot of people think of suicide,
right?
And okay, then if that's whatyou want, then that's what we
should let you do.
And, I don't see it as like apersonal mission to go out and
change people's minds like that,but maybe at least if I wear a

(41:20):
shirt like that, then he stoppedand talked to me and I said, you
know what, that was my son and Isurely wish that I could have
stopped him, and maybe he wouldbe taking this bike ride with us
right now.
And, and I'm sure that guy,hopefully that guy walked away
thinking.
Oh, maybe, I'm a dick.
Yeah, maybe that wasn't theright thing to say.
And maybe I, maybe I wasn't, I'mnot thinking about it the right

(41:41):
way.
And he was older, and yeah,whatever, but Michael died in
February 2020, and then COVIDhit, so we really had a weird,
healing process becauseeverything's shut down.
I've said this before, like whensomeone dies that you love, you
think everything should stop,like the world should shut down.
and it did, like a month later,like nobody was doing anything,

(42:04):
and we were all here and, but,and the downside, hadn't really
figured out like zoom calls yetfor therapy and things like
that.
You were, we were just piecingit all together as it went.
So at the beginning, like thatfirst year, was, of course was
horrible.
More shock.
Shock, yeah.
And, holed up in the house.

(42:25):
Thinking he's going to comeback, still thinking he's going
to come through the door.
Thinking that it wasn't him.
at least, I don't know aboutyou, but me, I was thinking,
maybe it wasn't him.
Maybe he changed, the body.
you sit there and you try to.
Even though, you know, it's nottrue.
You go through all these things.
Eventually, once, I feel likeonce everybody started figuring

(42:46):
out that we were going to be inlockdown for a while, then we
had, a lot of progress in,mental health and, being able to
talk to people online and thingslike that.
that's how I did a lot of, Iwould go up in my room, up in
the office upstairs and, Watchvideos and meet with groups and
talk with people about what wasgoing on, he didn't, he was like

(43:08):
the opposite, that didn't helphim.
It helped me, we were nothealing the same, so it took us
that first year.
Like we might even like weseparated for a while, like we
just not feel the same way.
and it was just so painful andso raw and I didn't think I'd
ever I had a plan on just prettymuch doing the same thing.

(43:30):
To be honest with you, I waslike, your whole life is, taken
away.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I'm gonna interrupt realquick.
Mike, what brought you out ofthat?
Do you think?
to be, I think moving somewherenew, it was totally, you had to
get this, and this.
And I think it was a change inpace, rewiring, knowing I'd

(43:51):
bring the sorrow to other peoplealso, to know that, just like I
love why.
There's going to be other peoplethat I'm going to hurt, too.
Yeah.
And just, I think that was themain thing, probably.
Not totally out of it.
it's still yeah.
it's still, it's in your mind.
but you got, you're strongenough to fight it off.

(44:12):
that first story was just sohorrific.
Oh, yeah.
It gets better.
it's not like you don't stillhave days, four and a half years
later of like devastation.
But at that first year, everyday is like a physical pain.
you literally have a physicalpain in your body.
like I can remember my wholestomach.

(44:35):
I felt like somebody had justcarved me out and I was hollow,
like it was just And I'm notsaying like after a year hits,
Oh, wow, now there it is.
And you can laugh and cause you,you get nervous.
You don't even want to laugh infront of people.
You don't want to, you don'tknow how to act in front of
people.
Cause somebody sees your laplaughing.
Oh, then we want to put that tooon her face.

(44:57):
say we're sad.
We're broken.
I guess now we can laugh and,tell funny stories about him and
stuff like that where it's nice.
And it, I will say like havingpeople talk about him is
wonderful.
Like people mentioning his nameand saying Michael, like not
like inorganically saying oh,tell me about Michael, but if
something comes up and Michael'sname comes up, you don't have to

(45:18):
feel like, You're going toremind me that he died if you
bring up his name or something.
I'm not going to be like, Oh,here I was, Oh, I've totally
forgotten.
Now you reminded me of my son isgone.
Yeah.
Like I remember every minute ofevery day, but if he did
something funny or we want totalk about it, like I'm, it's
nice to have people mention hisname and say like something
about him and, Like when thegirl with the girl's mom told me

(45:41):
about the cell phone, like I hadnever heard that story before,
so it's when she's telling me,I'm like, no, he never told me
this.
This was in middle school.
Maybe I don't know if it'smiddle school or high school.
he had never told me he didsomething like that.
the same thing with the ear,the, Toothbrush thing.
Mike, I always thought it wasTyler stealing his toothbrush
heads, and here it's Michaelstealing the toothbrush heads.
just, didn't tell us, just funnythings like that.

(46:02):
If, people wouldn't share thosethings or those stories.
But my sister called me everysingle day.
to the point where, Yeah.
Yeah, she helped you a lot.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's hard for me to evensay it, She helped me a lot.
for Hours, yeah.
Yeah.
Sisters are good sisters.
Definitely.

(46:23):
Mike moved away for a littlewhile for about a year.
He moved away and there wasn't aday.
She did not like she'd call to Ianswer.
Yeah.
It's three o'clock in themorning.
Would she be calling?
He'd probably be okay right now.
I know he would be okay rightnow with like us moving.
Like we're in the same house.
Oh yeah.
Where Michael died.
It still bothers me really badbeing here.

(46:43):
but it's hard for me to leavehere because, and I say this,
I've said this before, likeMichael lived here.
he was born, came home to thishouse two days after he was
born.
He took his first steps here.
Like I have so many memories ofhim here.
That it's hard for me to be okaywith leaving this house, even
though, yes, he did die here.
he was more than just thatminute of what he did that day.

(47:05):
he was, we had over 14 yearswith him here, but it's hard.
You guys, go ahead.
You guys, it's amazing.
it's amazing to hear the storyand not just of Michael, but
also, of you guys.
And your journey through thisand coming back together and
obviously you don't feel thesame way about things and you
don't process things the sameway, but somehow you're still

(47:26):
managing that together.
And, I think that's highlycommendable and I'm going to
guess it's not very easy andit's probably still not easy.
So, no, there are moments, thereare moments where it's still
really hard.
now we grieve more alike than,but even like the Michael's
ovation things like that'sharder for him.
It's not as hard.
It's not hard for me.

(47:47):
Like I love Michael's ovationstuff where it's harder for him.
So I do that, he doesn't.
Yeah.
Now we have, Tyler is our olderson.
He's 20.
He's going to be 24 here.
yeah.
In a couple of weeks.
And, like he had a really, hehad much harder time, I wouldn't
say a harder time dealing withit.
We all have a horrible timedealing with it.
I shouldn't say that.
he dealt with it in a way to tryto numb himself.

(48:07):
and he it was really hard forhim.
like he turned to, he turned tothings that weren't healthy for
him to deal with.
Michael dying.
And he went through that forabout a year after Michael died.
We had this hard time for thisfirst year, it was hard for time
for that first year.
it's still hard for time now.
but he is, he's doing great and,we're super proud of him.

(48:30):
He's, he is a nurse right now.
He works in the emergency roomand he's a nurse.
And, as we speak right now, heand his girlfriend are moving
into a new house, renting a newhouse and moving in right now.
lots of good things happeningfor him, but he, had to take
care of himself too and took himabout a year to figure out, that
what he was doing wasn'thelping, he was just pushing it

(48:52):
down and it wasn't going away bypushing it down using
substances, it wasn't making itbetter and then when it hits you
even harder.
he's in recovery and, Yeah.
Super proud of him.
Good.
That's awesome.
And yay for the new house.
And they don't live around here,correct?
Okanos.
Yeah.
They live in like EastStroudsburg area.

(49:13):
Yeah.
Okay.
That's what I thought.
I remember.
Which is he went to, he went outthere, and, had some treatment
out there and, decided to stayout there, which was really a
good thing for him.
I think not to come home.
one in our house, honestly,because it's hard for him to be
here and the kid now here andalso being like in the same,

(49:33):
neighborhood with, really easyto find and it was like habits,
now he's from those habits andhas a new life and new habits
out there.
So I think that's been, it'sbeen great for him.
I would love for him to livehere and live around this area,
but.
Again, it's the same thing.
We're all like, it's okay.
You guys need to deal with itbecause, yep, I'd much rather
him live out there and behealthy mentally and physically

(49:57):
than be here and not right.
And I think that's reallyimportant.
I think it's really importantfor all three of you to
understand each other thatyou're all processing and that
you will continue to processdifferently.
so again, I commend you guys onthat because I, I think that's a
very difficult thing to do.
so that's just amazing and greatto hear.
And, again, thank you guys somuch for sharing all of this

(50:20):
with us and continuing to shareit with us.
Um, I want to talk aboutMichael's ovation.
Are you guys okay with that now?
Is there more that you guys wantto share?
Okay.
Okay.
Yeah, there you go.
See, I'm good at this shit.
so Lori, I'm going to go to youcause I think it was you and
Angela to start and Angela, Iapologize cause I might slip

(50:42):
here and call you and instead ofAngela, cause I have an Angela
friend and that's what we callher and that just comes out.
So totally fine.
I will like a lot of friendsthat call me and.
Okay.
So Lori, I'm going to throw itover to you.
If you want to just, let us knowhow Michael's ovation started
and give us a little bit ofbackground and, whatever else
you want to share with us aboutthe organization.

(51:03):
Okay.
it was coming up on the year ofMichael's passing and Angela and
I were putting our headstogether saying, what could we
do?
Like we wanted to do something.
and, Michael had a, strong,enjoyment, I guess is the right
word, for music.
And he took music lessons at aschool called Meister Minds.
So Angela and I, after throwingaround a few ideas, decided that

(51:25):
we would reach out to the musicschool and see if we could
sponsor a student in Michael'smemory.
And so we, went ahead and wewent out and we met with, the
owner who knew Michael lovedhim.
And, throughout the course oftalking to her, she had shared
with us that she had also lost adaughter, different
circumstances, but that a friendof hers had actually established

(51:48):
a nonprofit in her daughter'smemory.
And that kind of got the ballrolling with Angela and I of, we
didn't go into it with the, Tentof setting up a nonprofit, we
just, we're going to sponsor astudent, to enjoy some music
like Michael did and by the timewe walked out the door, we had
already, given her a check tosponsor the first student and

(52:13):
we're, starting to, plan, goingoff and establishing the
nonprofit.
So the first thing we did was wecalled Heather and said.
we would like to do this if it'sokay with you and, you can have
as much or as littleinvolvement, as you want.
And as she just told you, sheloves it.

(52:33):
she was like, Oh, I'm totally onboard.
let's do this.
So we went ahead and we, appliedto be the nonprofit.
Heather, if you can see, I thinkshe and I have one, Heather
designed the, a logo, took thedrumsticks, from Michael's, um,
drum lessons that he took atMeister Minds, because that's
how we started, right?
And then we blossomed, so wejust started off, we were going

(52:55):
to sponsor, one student a month.
And, Angela and I were justgoing to do this on our own, we
were going to fund it and thenquickly other people were like,
tell us how we can help.
We want to get involved.
so we have some regular donorsthat quickly covered that one
student a month without Angelaand I having to, contribute a

(53:15):
penny.
So then we started thinkingthrough what other things can we
do?
and in talking to Heather, it'svery important.
To, to talk about the people.
not obviously we're focused onMichael, but anybody who's lost
anybody, it's very important totalk about them, to tell the
stories, it doesn't have to be asad thing.

(53:36):
but anyway, so we startedfocusing on things that Michael
enjoyed, let's talk aboutMichael and the things that he
liked to do.
Let's go help some other personenjoy those things.
we quickly expanded on, theschool library, that Mike
mentioned earlier.
at the elementary school, theyhad created, the, I don't know,

(53:57):
maybe I'll let you tell thestory.
But they created an area inMichael's honor, right?
And so reading was one of hisother areas of enjoyment.
So we started buying books forthe schools.
not only the elementary schoolthat Michael went to, but the
elementary school that Heatherteaches at.
And even most recently, webought, books for the schools

(54:18):
that Tara teaches at.
and sharing that love of readingwith other kids, in Michael's
memory.
so that, you Heather can say toher student, My son Michael
loved to read.
Or, Tara can say, My nephewMichael loved to read.
the librarian at BelvertonElementary can say, our former
student Michael, he loved toread.
And then we, started, lookingfor other areas.

(54:40):
one of the things Michael alsoliked to do, was, bike riding.
he dragged Heather all summerlong to, the wheel mill.
and so we said, let's go downthere and take a day and we'll
sponsor the entry, for 30 kidsso they can come in and enjoy
the place like Michael did, sothat was a fun day.
Um, and I'd never been therebefore.

(55:01):
And yeah, me neither.
Yeah.
Yeah.
and Heather walked us throughand, told us all about it and,
told us some stories.
when Michael was there.
I loved picturing him and Icould see him going up and down
and all of the things.
And then flying into the ball ofthe sponges that, she said he

(55:23):
just loved it so much.
And I loved being able topicture him there.
and, Heather had shared videos,at the time, that it happened.
So I was like, Oh, I rememberhim flipping into the ball
field, like Angela said.
And yeah, and how many hoursthat, she spent there.
and then, probably about thattime, we've built up quite a
nice fund.
and.

(55:44):
Tara and her husband, Ryan,said, Hey, we want to help them.
We want to get involved and wecan, help you guys learn how to
do a fundraiser golf outing,which is funny because none of
us golf don't know anythingabout golf and it's, it would be
really, we'd probably still beon the course if we were trying
to play, but, we have pulledoff, Three now successful golf

(56:07):
outings, and we've raised alittle more money each year and,
we've, added, scholarships at,Belvarne Area High School.
We started the year withMichael's graduating class and
we gave away six 500scholarships, and we've,
continued that this year andwe're going to continue that
going forward.

(56:27):
So part of our golf, Fundraiseris to fund those scholarships.
We've also, branched out intoanimal adoption, sponsorships.
Michael, was also a very, biganimal lover.
to be able to help otherfamilies, you know, bring a pet
into their home so they canenjoy the same thing that
Michael did.
what am I missing guys?

(56:48):
those are the big ones.
Yeah.
Yeah.
We do like pet adoptions.
We've paid, we've sponsoredrescue transports to come up.
I'm not sure whose phone keepsgoing off.
Somebody's phone keeps up, keepsbuzzing.
Yeah.
we've sponsored like rescue vansponsorships.
how do I want to say that?
so they'll go down, like into akill shelter and, bring up, save
some.

(57:09):
Yeah, I just want to add intothe, when Michael died, he had a
really great friend, Viva andher mom helped organize like
how, cause of course people wantto help you when something like
this happens and Viva and hermom, Mary helped organize, a way
for people to donate money andwe split that money up and.

(57:30):
And I think Tara gave me theidea like we could split it
between the library and hiselementary school because that
was a place that Michael loved,felt safe, his librarian like
had a connection with him allthroughout his elementary school
years and just made such adifference in his life.
And then, we split that and,gave some to his school library
and elementary school libraryand the music school Maestro

(57:52):
Minds and Mia.
Mia was wonderful.
He went through like severaldifferent like drum teachers.
and piano teachers.
And then, they would come andgo.
And then once he hooked up withMia, who is the owner, they just
had this great connection.
And that's how that happened.
But his school elementary schoollibrarian, she also, worked
together with another woman andthey made in their elementary

(58:14):
school, in their library, thisarea in the corner of the
library called the readingmachine, because that's what she
called Michael.
And, it's just fabulous.
It's like a little place forkids to go in the library, like
this little nook for kids to goin the library.
But it's set up like a machine.
there's gears in it, and there'scomfy chairs in it.

(58:34):
And it's just, I'll, I have iton our Facebook page.
Somebody can go in and look atit.
And also on our website.
but it's just amazing, to thinknow that kids can go in that
library and sit in that spot andread a book.
Because that, Michael just lovedgoing in there.
And even now, he's still makinga difference with those kids in
elementary school when, a firstgrader can walk in there and see
that and, go in there and read abook in there and just, know

(58:57):
that Michael had a part in that.
It's just amazing.
I got to say, if you guys arejust listening and you're not
going to tune in to the YouTube,you got to see Heather's face
when she's talking about this,because it absolutely lights up.
And I think that is so special.
And as someone who has had alifelong love of books and

(59:20):
reading and, found a littlesolace in the library when
things are crazy.
It's such an important thing tobe able to find those kinds of
spaces.
And the fact that you guys areable to carry on, Michael's
memory in that way, just.
Touches my heart and you can seelike it again if you guys aren't

(59:40):
watching on YouTube I willdescribe it like the way
everyone's faces kind of changewhen they talk about Michael it
on Like I can see it even thoughmy computer's fairly shitty
right now like I can see the wayThat talking about leaving that
positive legacy and being ableto contribute back and have an
impact on people who will comeafter Michael, who might need a

(01:00:03):
sort of safe space in thelibrary.
Just right here.
Thanks.
All the feels.
Thanks to his librarian.
she's just, she was justwonderful and she made such a
difference in his life.
Like I said, he had severalteachers in his life that made
such a difference, but shereally just always.
Yeah, and we just looked out forhim, and like he was like the
last p one of the last groups toleave at the end of the day, and

(01:00:24):
he would be sitting out in thelobby and she like figured out,
he liked to read, come on in andget some books and was like,
wait, I can get more books?
This is amazing.
And she just made such adifference in his life.
And, it's really cool to be ableto work with her now.
Like Tara's a librarian.
She knows so I think that'slike.
It's still something so specialto me.

(01:00:46):
They have that in common, and,knowing that your library, your
elementary school librarian,which I think is something that,
a lot of people overlook, right?
That they're, when you think of,kids think of, oh, they're top
teachers of their memories oftheir school career, their
elementary school librarianmight not have been somebody
that comes to the top of theirmind.
And, she definitely was for bothmy kids.

(01:01:07):
That's awesome.
Yep.
Same.
Same.
That person.
That person in your life thatwill let you come into the
library and will let you checkout a book that's for a fourth
grader when you're a firstgrader.
I love that person.
No need to brag.
No need to brag.
And we're allowed as a fourthgrader to check out the first
grader book too.

(01:01:27):
It's fine.
That's okay.
Yeah, it does work the other waytoo, princess.
You can check out the picturebooks.
Damn you can.
And Heather, the elementaryschool where Heather teaches,
they created a garden areaoutside, but it is also stocked
with books.
Yeah.
and the kids that don't want tolike, play kickball at recess or
play football at recess.
I love that.
They can go over there and graba book and, sit on the rock or

(01:01:51):
sit in the shade or sit at abench and, grab a book and read.
so we'll continue to, add newbooks to those three different
libraries.
And, we've even sponsoredAngela's daughter's softball
team.
So when she's out there playing,she can see Michael's Ovation.
on the big sign out in theoutfield.
I wonder if she's ever swung andtried to get it out there.
I'm sure she probably has.

(01:02:12):
when they would hang it, itwould be on the fence, around
the field.
She loved that.
She would say to me, I love itbecause, Michael's at my games.
she loved that.
She loved Michael very much.
Very much.
She holds the time that they hadtogether.
the last few times she holdsthat so close.

(01:02:35):
She says it a lot.
she says, I'm so glad we hadthat whole time in my room
together.
Just watching the office.
Yeah, they both love the officehere for the office.
Yeah.
And she loves swimming with himthat day.
when we all got together forlunch at a friend's house and it

(01:02:56):
was just, her and Michael, allof us are up there gabbing and
eating and she just loved itcause she's known him since she
was born, they knew each otherthat long.
So whenever we would all try toget together, which we would
always try, although it's nicecause we get to see each other
more often than we ever did, Sothat's awesome.

(01:03:16):
I love that.
Oh yeah.
She loved having that sign atthe game.
He was there all the time.
Yeah.
That is something that Michaelgave us is we definitely get
together more now than we usedto.
I also love that Laura betternow too.
She's just not the, littlesister that we picked on growing
up though.
Yeah.
To Sarah have that in common.
the little sisters that getpicked on and picking on Yeah.

(01:03:38):
She's the one that tagged alongfor everything and wanted to be
a part of it and you guys arelike, no, now she's here, now
she's an equal.
Yeah.
Look at us kicking ass now, huh?
I would say the one thing, allthe things that Michael's
Ovation does do so many thingsin Michael's memory, but also
adding that piece now with thesuicide prevention things.

(01:03:58):
And whenever there's anorganization or anything that we
can give to, a lot of it hasbeen.
Things that Michael loved, butalso anytime we hear about
anything or any groups, anywalks, anything like that, that
we can help contribute to, andget, not really just get our
name out there, but I feel likejust to be as a resource for
someone else or to give to thosethings I think is so important

(01:04:22):
and not something that weoriginally started with.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's morphed into thattoo.
Yeah, we weren't really, we werefirst looking for things that
were important to Michael.
But now, this is also somethingthat's important to all of us.
It's like working with Jackieand Ed, with March 4th has been,
a wonderful thing.
Michael and Tanner have suchdifferent stories.

(01:04:43):
Yeah.
same result.
and here we, the four of us, andnow all of us too, picking up
afterwards and, trying to make adifference in other people's
lives.
that's been a blessing.
Yeah, for sure.
I know, selfishly looking at itfrom my perspective, being able
to be a part of this and,getting to meet and reconnect
with you guys and Jackie and Ed,of course, shitty fucking

(01:05:06):
circumstances and we don't wantto, we don't want to be having
it happen that way.
but it's great that, people fromour past that we can get back in
touch and, have it be formeaning, meaningful reasons and
we can try to make a differencetogether.
if you guys, I would love it.
I got the March 4th logo fromJackie.
If you guys could share, if youwouldn't mind, we're actually

(01:05:28):
going to, We're going to puttogether some merch for the
Mental Funny Bone.
We're going to put together a tshirt.
And so right now we have ourlogo on the front and then the
March 4th logo over here.
If you guys wouldn't mind, we'dlove to share Michael's Ovation
logo If you guys can send us thelogo, I would like to share it
on the sleeve.
We, we, speaking of the shirts,along with Michael's ovation,

(01:05:48):
with Mike's company, we actuallyprovided Michael's entire class
with the t shirt that I actuallyhave on right now.
and they took a picture outsidethe school, all the kids wearing
their shirts with the bench thatthey dedicated.
It's on our Facebook page.
That was actually really sweet.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So shirts out there everywhere.

(01:06:10):
Yeah, I love it.
I love it.
And I think the other thing thatI would like to have our
listeners do is a buy a shirtfrom us so that we can so that
we can help everybody else out.
But also go and check outMichael's ovation.
Check out the web page.
Check out all the stuff thatthese guys are doing.
And as you do that, think aboutthe, The impact that you can

(01:06:34):
have in your community in waysthat you can make it okay to
shout, suicide, without feelingashamed and without worrying
about, being able to talk aboutit.
help us get rid of that kind ofstigma, be able to talk about
wounds that you can'tnecessarily see on the outside
and, I think for us, Heather andMike and the rest of you guys,
is there one thing that youwould like, people to take away

(01:06:58):
from this podcast.
Is there one important thingthat you'd like everybody to
know, whether it's about Michaelor about yourselves or about the
charity and the work that youguys are doing?
You can have two, one forHeather and one for Mike, if you
don't agree.
Yeah, I guess just, talk to eachother, reach out to each other.
I wish Michael would have,Reached out to one of us or to
someone he loved or one of hisfriends, and just told them,

(01:07:21):
where he was and what space hewas in, or even at that moment,
just reached out.
I don't know if it would havechanged anything, but, and I
think afterwards, through thisfour and a half years that we've
been going through this withouthim here, just still reaching
out to people that you lovebecause he's You know, these
people that you see in front ofus that are helping us through

(01:07:41):
this, they've just, our friendsand our family just have, helped
us get through this past fourand a half years.
And without all of them andtheir support, we would not have
been able to get through things.
reach out to each other.
Be kind to each other.
Take it, I know it's, soundsredundant, maybe, but taking it
day by day will help too.
where, At first I couldn't thinkof a year from now, because I,

(01:08:03):
when he first died, I couldn'timagine myself a year from now,
five years.
I didn't want to, where I madeit like for Father's Day, if I
can make it to Father's Day, ifI can make it through another
holiday, just if I can make itthrough that, I think that's
really beneficial.
I don't know how it is with you,because we're opposite how we
deal with that.
And, then, a lot of times Ithink of him as being off in

(01:08:24):
college, like Tyler's being inEastern, D.
A., where I'll think of Mikey asbeing somewhere else, to cope
sometimes.
Especially in the beginning.
Yeah.
And your life isn't over, too.
Even though when you think it'sover, it's not over.
There's still a, you've got astory that's going to continue,
too.
Yeah, for sure.

(01:08:44):
I like that.
Alright, Tara, do you haveanything you want to share?
No, I feel like I completelyagree with the two of them right
there.
But, things like we have to justgo on and live for, I don't even
know, I don't even know how toput it into words.
But just being there for eachother and, knowing that we're,

(01:09:05):
being positive.
And trying to make the best thatwe can out of a really bad
situation, knowing that it'sokay to not be okay.
Angela, what do you got for us?
I always thought of Michael,like I have people in my family.
We all know somebody like this.
And I have somebody in my familythat I feel the same way about.

(01:09:29):
You can't really put your fingeron it.
But there's something so specialabout this person and you can't,
you really can't put your fingeron it.
I've met at least a handful ofpeople like that in my life.
And Michael was one of them.
I knew it from the verybeginning.
I always felt it.
And, he's just a, he was a greatkid.

(01:09:51):
Just a great kid.
He just, the aura around him,everything about him was just
something special.
But she just couldn't place it,but she didn't care that she
couldn't place it.
you're like, he's just one ofthe good ones.
He's, he was one of the goodones.
Yeah.
And it's taught me to just keeptalking about them.

(01:10:13):
I just want to help Heather andMike so bad.
And I've learned a lot to justkeep, just ask, keep talking
about him all the time.
All right, Lori Black, what yougot for us?
just to, amplify what Angelasaid is, Heather said something
to me once about seeingsomebody, I think it was a

(01:10:34):
grocery store or something.
And the person literally walkedthe other way to avoid talking
to her and don't do that, go, gotalk to them, see how they're
doing.
You don't have to go up and say,immediately start talking about
Michael.
You can just talk to her about,life.
And like she said, if a storyabout Michael comes up as a
course of normal conversation,don't avoid saying his name,

(01:10:56):
don't avoid sharing the story.
but she's still the sameHeather.
She was before, um, it's okay totalk to her.
And Christine, probably, I'msure you had the same thing,
right?
Yeah.
People were probably afraid tocome talk to you.
or mention anything, related toOlivia, that's the thing for me
is don't be afraid to talk aboutit or talk to that person.

(01:11:17):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think that's the drive behind,I think everything that you guys
have said.
wrapping us up is that, it'simportant to carry on the memory
of the people.
And it's important to talk aboutwhat we're going to do to carry
forward and how we're going tomake a very tragic thing, a
positive thing.

(01:11:38):
And.
For me being able to articulatewhat happened and how it
happened and why it happenedand, how we moved forward from
that was so important and acommon theme that Sarah and I
see when we're.
When we're talking to Jackie andEd, or other people who have
moved on and accepted some ofthe tragic things that come

(01:11:59):
along with having some mentalillness and being able to create
positive lives post that ishaving somebody reach out and
reach out consistently.
Mike, you were talking aboutyour sister, you can't.
Underestimate, overestimate, youcan't minimize the power of just
reaching out and saying tosomebody, Hey, yeah, And even if
they say, yeah, I'm fine.

(01:12:20):
I'm fine.
they know that they're notalone.
and I think that is the trick.
To a lot of moving past, thingsthat are bothering us is
understanding that you're notalone.
And I think that's a lot of whatSarah and I, and a lot of what
Jackie and Ed and you guys aretrying to do.
Hey, it's a big, scary world andbig, scary things happen.

(01:12:42):
And you're not by yourself asyou go through them.
So that's the one thing I wouldask our listeners and you guys
is just to keep reminding eachother that you're not alone.
Those connections are huge.
Don't be afraid to reach out.
I know.
just a little story just fromyesterday.
we were watching Owen play deckhockey and one of our friends

(01:13:03):
came up and in passing, I said,Hey, how are you?
And she was like, and just keptwalking.
And normally I would have beenlike, all right, you don't want
to talk about it.
Fine, whatever.
And so she went into the little,concession stand thing.
And I was like, I stood therefor a minute and I was like,
something's wrong.
So I followed her and I normallywouldn't do that.
And I followed her and I said,Hey, what's going on?

(01:13:23):
There's obviously something'swrong.
And she had some bad news in themorning and was just having a
rough time.
And yeah.
She told me what was going onand had a little meltdown and I
went in the concession standwith her and gave her a hug,
which most people who know me,that's a big deal because I
don't do that shit.
and just listen to her for a fewminutes and I, and that made a

(01:13:44):
difference.
And just those little things,even though, at least for me, I
was like, I'm not going to be apest.
I'm not going to, but sometimes,just going a little extra second
and pushing a little bit.
Can make a difference.
So obviously I didn't solve herproblem or anything, but It was
nice to be there.
And at the end of everything shewas like, I can't believe I got
a Sarah hug That's crazy touchpeople So there you go Creating

(01:14:08):
a nonprofit although creatingthe nonprofit certainly Made it
easier for us to talk aboutMichael but you don't have to go
that far, yeah, you could, yeah,and it's, and I absolutely love
the fact that you guys were in asmall, neighborhood gang when
you were younger, and you'vetaken that gang experience and

(01:14:31):
turned it into a nonprofit.
Yeah.
Yes, when we say gang, let'sclarify that literally that
included, walking the streets,tic tacking, throwing tic tac
porn, throwing porn at people'shouses like for a month a year.
And then the rest of the time,just walking and doing nothing,
sometimes tattooing each otherand graffiti ing some, no, I'm

(01:14:53):
just kidding.
I'm kidding.
No, we didn't do that.
these are the good kickings.
These are very cool.
Thanks.
That was pretty much it.
Riding our bikes.
these are bike gags.
Wait.
Not.
Just stop.
Just stop.
Kickball maybe?
Whiffleball.
Christine will share all of the,websites and whatnot in the show

(01:15:16):
notes for today.
And, We're gonna go ahead andwrap it up.
I just want to thank all of youguys for joining us and for
being willing to do this.
Heather and Mike, especially thetwo of you.
Thank you so much for openingup.
I can't imagine that it's aneasy thing to share these
stories.
and your story, Michael story,how you guys have come through

(01:15:36):
it and continue to, to heal.
I'm sure it's something that'snever gonna, it might grow a
little scab over it, but it'snever gonna go away.
And, we just really appreciateabout him and talk about
Michael.
so much.
Yeah, for sure.
And we will continue to do We'regonna go ahead and shut her down
here, but don't hang up on usyet.
We'll just stop the recordingand then have a little chat

(01:15:58):
afterwards.
So shut it down, Christine.