From Leanne and Susie on The Nutrition Couch this episode:
- We take a look at 'reverse dieting' and why it may be the diet intervention that you need;
- We also reveal easy ways you can take to improve your blood glucose control;
- Our listener question is about sweetener, which ones you should stay well clear of and why.
So sit back, relax and enjoy this week’s episode!
Tune in on Wednesday for your mid-week motivation.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Are you a fairly routine person when it comes to
your eating and exercise habits. Do you find that you
eat a healthy, calorie controlled diet most of the time
but still can't budge any weight? Have you got a
long history of dieting and restrictive eating? And have you
ever wondered if you may need to reverse diet? On
today's episode of The Nutrition Couch, we take a closer
(00:22):
look at reverse dieting and science that it might be
the diet intervention that you need.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Hi.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
I'm Susie Burrow and Emily and Wood and.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Each week we bring you The Nutrition Couch, a biweekly
podcast that gets you up to date on everything you
need to know in the world of nutrition as well
as reverse dieting. Today we're taking a closer look at
the easy, practical ways you can improve your own blood
gluecose control, and our listener question is all about sweetness
and which are the ones to stay well clear of
(00:51):
and why so kick us off today, Leanne. A couple
of weeks ago, we had a little chat about the
importance of tipping aware of your blood glucose and and
HbA one C level, which is a marker of glucose
levels as you get older, because small changes or shifts
upwards can be suggestive that it's time to take some
action in terms of looking after your blood glucose and
(01:14):
making sure your insulin levels are not elevated in the background.
Very important for cell health, and I guess what we
probably didn't say in that chat was why it's important
because basically, even though glucose is the primary fuel for
the muscles and the brain, abnormally high levels of glucose
are extremely damaging to our cells. And one of the
(01:35):
things it does is basically age the cell more quickly,
certainly the look of cells and they become more damaged,
so it can contribute to aging. It leaves us more
prone to disease states and inflammation in the body. So
blood glucose control is a concept that's actually relevant to
all of us regardless of our risk of diabetes, although
(01:56):
it is more important for that. And if you sort
of were reading a lot about diets and nutrition even
going about twenty years, you would have been very familiar
with the concept of glycemic index that had been sort
of really thoroughly investigated and shared research from the University
of Sydney and Jenny brand Miller who pioneed a lot
of the early research in glycimic index, which basically showed
(02:17):
that different carbohydrate containing foods released glucose levels into the
blood at different rates. So we'd previously always spoke about
carbohydrates in terms of simple sugars and complex carbohydrates, but
what we now know is that the glycemic index, or
specifically glycemic load of different carbohydrate foods is predictive of
how quickly or how slowly those glucose levels peak and
(02:39):
reduce again, and it's those glucose peaks that we really
all of us want to steer well clear of because
that's when that damage at a cellular level is occurring.
And hence the general recommendation for whole grain and low
GI foods, so things like carbohydrates like legumes and whole
grains like oats, and foods that are minim processed compared
(03:01):
to say, refined cereals and grains like white rice or
refined cereals white brands.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
So it's kind of.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
An indirect marker of the quality of the food, but
quite important when it comes to looking after blood glucose levels.
So we thought it pertinent today to share some more
practical tips on easy ways we can all manage our
glucose levels better, because certainly there are benefits in terms
of appetite control how we feel each day. And I
always like to talk about it Leean in terms of
(03:30):
anti aging, because a lot of my clients are in
their forties and fifties, and certainly myself. You know, once
you start to lose your estrogen, you'll notice your skin
changes quite dramatically, and indeed, optimal blood glucose control is
a very powerful anti aging strategy. So if you need
to be convinced a little bit more, so, I'll run
through some of them and then I'll get Leanta to
add a few of her own. We could talk about
it in terms of exercise, but a tip you know,
(03:53):
exercise will certainly help remove glucose from the blood stream,
so it's all good.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
The more muscle mass we have, the better.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
But a little trickly, and I like to share with
my own clients, is to move after meals because that
is the time when the glucose levels will generally be
highest in the bloodstream. You know, if you've got up
in the morning and had a couple of slices of
toast or at lunchtime had some sushi, you know, relative
high amounts of carbohydrate, but often we go and sit
back at our desk or after dinner, we go and
sit down for several hours, and that's one of the
(04:20):
worst things you can do for blood glucose control. So certainly,
for anyone listening who's at high risk of diabetes or
has insulin resistance, you absolutely must commit to moving after
a meal. Twenty thirty minutes of a brisk walk would
be amazing, or at least cleaning up after dinner, having
your lunch at your desk at work and then going
for a walk, Because most of us could certainly do
a bit more on our feed after we eat to
aid that natural blood glucose removal. We want to keep
(04:43):
a close eye on carbohydrate intake. Now we're certainly not
encouraging people to follow low carb diets, but what we're
saying is there's a big difference between having a meal
that's got a piece of chicken, two cups of veggies,
and half a cup of brown rice, and having a
piece of chicken, half that amount of veggies and two
cups of white rice. So certainly, aiming for the lower
GI carbs like the veggies with their skin on like
(05:05):
a jacket, potato, brown or black rice in a control
portion lower GI carbs, but you've got to measure the
portions and that's where the glycemic load comes into it.
It's not enough just to have low GI foods. You've
also got to keep the portions controlled. And that's roughly
a third to half a cup is a small serve,
up to say three quarters to one for a larger
(05:25):
frame person or someone doing a lot of activity, but
certainly people might be having two or three times that,
particularly if you're eating meals away from the home, where
pasta and rice are often used as fillers or heavy
bread bases. So that's another easy trick. A few little
other tricks and sort of some growing evidence around is too.
A few supplements, so vinegar, apple, sided vinegar or vinegar
(05:48):
in general. Adding that to a meal will help to
lower the glycemic load of that food, as well as cinnamon.
So for example, if you have oats for breakfast, adding
some cinnamon it's a really great thing to add in
there to help regulate glucose. And also the supplement berberine,
which we spoke about recently. There is some evidence to
show that that too can aid blood glucose control. So
that's if you have some interest in supplementation and wanted
(06:11):
to try something, that's certainly one that is worth looking at,
as long as you stick to recommended doses and then
just a couple of other specific nutrient groups before I
pass to lean. Certainly, in Australia, our soil is extremely
low in the nutrient chromium, which is a trace mineral
found in a very small handful of foods and it's
closely linked to blood glucose control. Now, if you buy
(06:33):
any of those blood glucose control supplements, they often got
chromium added. Now I wouldn't encourage people to do that,
but I would encourage people to eat more foods with chromium,
which includes nuts, but also cocoa, So a bit of
dark chocolate or cocoa powder can really increase your intake
of chromium. Milo is another one, or ovaltine and also
magnesium rich food so again another nutrient that we tend
(06:54):
to not get enough of, very powerfully involved in glucose regulation.
And again some more evidence to include. To serve a
nuts each day, make sure you're having whole grains, whether
it's oats or whole grain bread or crackers with grains
in them, and at least a couple of serves of
leafy grains, So good reason to add a green type
juice or smoothie into your diet. So I feel like
I've spoken for two hours on that land.
Speaker 3 (07:15):
Would you like to add any of your.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
Own blood glucose control suggestions because.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
You are just sitting there, I feel like you've covered it.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
I will just go back to the point on apple
side of vinegar that is showing some new and exciting research.
But what I will say, if you're going to use it,
a lot of people are just shotting it by itself
before a meal. And certainly there has been some good
evidence to show that that does actively help to reduce
blood sugar levels, which has been very good for you know,
diabetics and those that are insulin resistant. But what I
will say from a dentist' perspective, or what my dentist
(07:43):
has told me, is that it really doesn't do much
with the enamel and your teeth whatsoever. So you really
want to be diluting your vinegar, and if you're drinking
it just in water, even drinking it through a straw
because otherwise it will actually wear down the enamel in
your teeth long term. So the better way to use
vinegar and when it comes to trying to regulate it
your blood glucose levels is actually, like Susie said, adding
it as part of in like a salad dressing or
(08:04):
adding it to the meal. Obviously, you know, gotta put
apple side vinegar into a smoothie, that would be disgusting,
But you know, if you can put it into more
of a main meal, try to really utilize it as
part of like a salad dressing or something, and you
only need a little bit as well. And then probably
my other tip Susie, is just to balance your meals.
Like I say it to clients all the time, and
particularly at the moment it's cold, it's winter, there's a
(08:25):
lot of bugs and flus going around. I'd say fifty
percent of my clients are sick or have been sick
within the last month. There's just like every bug known
to man floating around at the moment. And all we
want when it's cold, we're sick, we want that comfort food.
So clients are like, oh, I didn't feel like anything,
but I just had two slices of bread with veggiamot
and butter. I didn't feel like anything, so I just had,
you know, some two minute noodles, or I just had
(08:46):
some white rice or just something random, and it just
tends to be a car balone. So I say to them,
that's fine, but you've got to try to pair your
carbohydrate foods with something else, predominantly a bit of protein
or a bit of fat or a bit of fire
for some vegetables, and that helps to slow down the
digestion of the blood glucose in the bloodstream. So really,
just try to avoid eating carbohydrates by themselves. I even
(09:09):
say to clients, if you want a soul food, if
you want a handful of lollies, if you want a
bit of cake, like, try not to have it by itself.
Try to have your main meal first and then have
a little bit of a treat afterwards, versus just skipping
dinner all together and having a couple of handballs of
lollies or something like that. So the best thing you
can do from a blood sugar regulation perspective is actually
eat things like vegetables and whole grains and protein first
(09:31):
and then have a little bit of your treat or
your soul food afterwards, or just avoid eating just carbohydrates
by themselves. If you feel like fruit, great, but pair
it with a bit of nut butter. Some fat will
slow down the digestion of the car but you feel
like some fruit, pair it with some full fat Greek
yogurt because the protein in the fat will slow down
the digestion of the carbohydrates. So it's really about learning
to balance your meal and not just having carbohydrates by
(09:54):
themselves or too high a load of carbohydrates, like Susi said.
So the type matters, the mountain matters, and the timing
matters as well for blood glucose control. All right, and
then we're going to kick on to our next section
at Susie, which is on reversed arting. Now we talked
about this. I know it was in January. It was
one of out early was it this year or was
it the year before. I feel like it was even
the year before.
Speaker 3 (10:14):
Yeah, it was one of the first episodes.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
But when we look back at our numbers, it was
one of our highest rated episode.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
It is our high like it's had well over twenty
thousand listeners, I think close to you know, thirty thousand
listeners today it's huge and we're like, what is it
about reverse darting? And I think it's this newer concept
where there's not a lot of like there's no official rules,
like what is reverse starting. There's no official term, there's
no official rules. It's essentially when I think of reverse darting, Susie,
it's a period of increasing calories, whether that's within a
(10:43):
deficit or whether that's at the end of a deficit.
How I tend to use it for my clients is
at the end of a deficit. So so they had
a goal of say ten killers a weight loss, we
achieve the goal, we don't want to leave them on
low calories forever. We slowly want to reintroduce those calories
and build them back up to their maintenance calories long term.
So that's where I use reversed arting for my clients.
But I know there's been a lot of talk lately
(11:05):
in terms of using reverse art almost on a weekly basis,
almost like calorie cycling. So you have periods of low
days and you have periods of high days as well.
So there's been a lot of talk of reversed arting,
and I think it kind of falls under a couple
of different terms, but to me, it's almost like that
carboor calorie cycling a lot of people tend to use
it for. But I also have seen it being very
(11:25):
helpful for my clients when they hit a bit of
a plateau. Now, the thing is, when you hit a
bit of a plateau metabolically, you've kind of downregulated, the
body has kind of got used to what you're doing.
You have to give it a bit of a shakeup,
and you've often got three options. You can do a
bit more activity, you can pull back on nutrition, or
you can actually add a little bit more nutrition in.
But I think the kicker is susy and where people
(11:45):
go wrong is they go right, I'm going to add
a bit more calories in to support myself metabolically. That's great,
but they overdo it so they don't just take themselves
back to maintenance calories. They overshoot maintenance calories and they
go way into a surplus. So with reversed art, the
goal would be to either maintain the fat loss to
date or to kick it up a notch and actually
(12:05):
get a little bit more off as well. And I
have very much seen this happen with my client suity.
We start a period of reverse darting, we slowly introduce
calories and they drop weight and they're like, how is
this possible that I'm eating more? Like I hit a plateau,
I'm now eating more and I'm still losing a little
bit of weight. It's that that reverse darting metabolically, the
body just does well with a little bit more fuel
(12:26):
and a little bit more calories. But it's nothing crazy.
You know, if you're going to hit a plateau and
then you think, oh, well, screw it, it's a plateau.
You know, I'm come off the diet. Then you go
and have a big weekend, bend a w you're having
do three four thousand calories, you are going to gain weight.
So the thing with reverse darting and is that you
want to add in some extra calories, but you want
to do it in a strategic way where it's not
(12:46):
too much. And that's very dependent on the person, very
dependent on your body size. You know how you are metabolically,
how much you've lost, how long you've been in a
deficit for So I would say most people would benefit
from a couple of hundred calories definitely, not a couple
of thousand calories if you're having a big weekend vendor,
I really do think that you're going to be gaining
(13:06):
weight versus losing, because the idea is with reverse darting
is you either want to come out of the deficit
completely back to maintenance, or you want to use it
as a bit of a buffer to keep yourself going
metabolically and just kind of get yourself past that plateau.
If you're using it to pass the plateau but you're
going to continue on in a fat loss phase, I
wouldn't be adding more than i'd say three four hundred
calories max in because I really think that's going to
(13:29):
backfire if you do too much more than that, and
you will actively gain a little bit of weight, which
is fine if you can keep that in check for
a week or two then put yourself back into the deficit.
But I think a lot of people struggle once they
start readding calories back in to then go back the
other way. So I tend to use it really at
the end of a period of darting for my clients,
or when we know metabolically they're kind of tapped out,
like we can't really do any more exercise. We can't
(13:51):
really pull back on nutrition anymore. The only real way
to go from there is to add calories back in.
So I tend to use it at the end of
a deficit, but I do know that people use it
more of like a you know, calorie cycling kind of
thing along the way. So what are your thoughts in
reverse darting. Do you use it a lot with your clients?
Speaker 1 (14:06):
I think it's fascinating concept because certainly I often have
clients who fit that criteria of you know, long term
thy twelve hundred calorie eaters, or they've done the eight
hundred calorie diet and they're just stuck.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
So they're not.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
Necessarily needing to lose twenty kilos, but they're still holding
five six and it's just they can't. They're exercising, you know,
they're basically in too much of a deficit, and then
to grade them up slowly. But what I would say,
it takes time. You can't go from eating eight hundred
one thousand calories for months and then expect it to change.
(14:42):
You've really got to do it very slowly, and you've
got to commit fully. So I also see the situation
where clients will increase the calories for two or three
days and then go back to restriction or exercise more
and it just doesn't work. It's really about consistency and
working through it.
Speaker 3 (14:58):
So it's a true one.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
You're sort of one of the probably i would say,
the experts in the area, but you're right. It has
been coming up more and more in sort of media
people talking about it because I think Leanne there's a
lot of people who have done these really restricted diets
for long periods and you know, without using profanities on
the podcast, they've really stuffed their metabolism. So it's consistency
over time and really allowing that two three month period
(15:23):
of consistent eating to start to shift it. But you've
got to trust in the process because yeah, just doing
it for a couple of days won't see results.
Speaker 3 (15:31):
You've got to be patient, all right.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
Well, for our final segment of today, this actually came
from one of our listener questions and we do go
through those lists to get content, so if there's something
and a few people have put some really good topics
down recently and I've been like, that's really helpful, we'll
take it. So this one has come from that on
our Instagram and it's a question about sweetness and are
they as toxic as they've spoken about, because certainly in
(15:57):
sensationalized METEA articles artificial sweetness, which we're.
Speaker 3 (16:00):
We're traditionally you know, the sucrolos and the.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
Splendor and the espartan based options that came through in
the eighties and seventies, and we're in the original kind
of diet cloke and pepsi and indeed are still in
a number of those.
Speaker 3 (16:13):
Kind of traditional soft drinks.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
You know, there's always been questioned about whether they're bad
for us. Now, you could pull thousands of research papers.
Some show no issue, some show that they disrupt the
cell and have neurological impacts, particularly when they interact with preservatives.
Speaker 3 (16:30):
I think the issue for Melian is not.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
They're certainly not toxic, but you'd have to question how
good they are for us. And the issue is that
artificial sweetener is up to two hundred times sweeter than
sugar itself, so there is evidence to show it does
prime the brain to look for more sweet food. Now,
anecdotally I find that it drives appetite, So you know,
there's some sort of discussion that when the body realizes
(16:53):
it hasn't had the calories, it sort of has a
rebound effect. So my position on them is, like most
things in moderation, it's not the end of the world.
But if you're sucking on two three diet cokes a day,
it's probably not great for you. It won't be great
for your sleep, and it is an artificial process absolutely
processed food soft drink in general, but of course you know,
artificial sweetener is highly processed, and as dieticians, we're always
(17:14):
trying to minimize the amount of processed food. So we're
certainly not saying that full strength soft trink's better. We're
saying if people were going to have one, a diet's better,
and then what would be better again is to have
a naturally sweetened alternative. So I think it sits in
that middle ground. It's not black and white. I certainly
wouldn't call them toxic, but I certainly wouldn't say they're
good for us. I would try and minimize them in
the diet, and if you have one of those suggestions
(17:35):
that you're quite addicted to it and needed, i'd start
to wean off. So if you're someone who's having two
three diet cokes a day or similar kind of products.
I'd start just to wean down over time, because basically
for media and the less sweet food in the.
Speaker 3 (17:47):
Diet we have, the better.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
An artificial sweetener is going to give you a lot
of sweetness in the diet.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
And I've certainly seen that with a lot of my
clients where it goes from being this, oh, I'm just
going to have one occasionally too. I now have one
a day with my lunch. Now I'm having one with
lunch and with dinner every day. Now I'm up to
three cans a day. So it's very much something that
I think the more you have, the more the body wants,
and the more the body seems to crave. So I'm
like you, I don't really have a problem with my
clients having it occasionally. You know, if they're going to
(18:13):
go to a backyard barbecue and everyone else is chowering
down on alcohol or full strink soft drinks, yeah, I'd
much rather they had a diet coke or a diet
lemonade or something. I mean, sure water is the preferable choice,
but you know, sometimes you just you know, especially after
you know, been pregnant, feeling in nine months, sometimes just
water doesn't cut it, do you know what I mean? Like,
sometimes you just want something a little more. So my
choice would be a kombucha or sparkling water with a
(18:34):
bit of line. But sure I'm partial to a little
bit of a diet soft drink or something like that.
If it's hot, it's summer, everybody else around me is
drinking delicious things. I can't partake in any alcoholic beverages.
I'm certainly going to have something more so than just
water day in and day out. Put it that way,
So obviously water herbal teas are our best choices, but
I certainly don't think they're toxic either. But I think
where this question really originated from was there's a lot
(18:57):
of media talk this week online because the World Health
Organization or WHO recently released these new guidelines that were
actually commenting against the use of non sugar sweetness.
Speaker 3 (19:09):
So they're actually.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
Recommending that, you know, they're the recommended health body worldwide,
they were actually saying that you shouldn't use them, particularly
if you're somebody that needs to control their body weight
or has diabetes. So essentially their recommendations were based on
their findings of a systematic review that suggested that the
use of non sugar sweetness didn't actually offer any long
(19:30):
term benefits in reducing body fat in adults or children.
And then this review went on to say that there
may also have been potential undesirable effects in the long
term use of these non sugar sweetness such as an
increased risk of type two diabetes, an increased risk of
cardiovascular disease, and even mortality in adults. So people kind
of took that and went like nuts with it, and
(19:51):
people were very polarized. They are either all for it
or they're all against it. And I mean, like you said, Susie,
if you look up, there have been so many studies
in good quality, bigger systematic you know, not just systematic
reviews like big you know, big RCT type studies that
show that you know, sometimes they're safe, sometimes they are not.
If you put two populations together, you've got you know,
two sets of obese people. The ones using you know,
(20:13):
diet soft drinks will lose more weight than the ones
that aren't using diet soft drinks. So they can be
shown in a lot of research articles to be quite helpful.
But I think it's really around the amount that you're
having and the frequency that you're having it. So I
don't necessarily agree with the position statement that you should
avoid them all together, because I think that when you're
looking at the large percentage of the group that does
(20:34):
have these drinks, they are people who are living in
bodies that are, you know, much larger than they should be.
They are the overweight and obese population. So it's kind
of like what came first, the chicken or the egg,
Like it's like, did they already have an increased risk
of type two diabetes anyway? Or are they drinking these
diet soft drinks and now they have an increased risk
of type two diabetes. So I think that was where
a lot of people online that was a bit of
(20:56):
uproar about because they were like, it's just not a
great quality study to be base seeing a worldwide recommendation on.
So I think we're the same positions Zuzie here on
the nutrition coush. If you enjoy them, have them occasionally,
make sure that if you are finding them creeping more
and more and more into your diet, you just kind
of cut it off and go a bit cold turkey
for a while. But Lazizi said they do tend to
(21:17):
prime the brain into wanting more and more sweet things.
If you're someone that has a diet coke with your
lunch every day or every other day, then you're finding
that your sugar cravings after dinner are really getting up there.
Or you have lunch and the diet cook doesn't quite
cut it and you feel like something sweet around two
pm every day, maybe that's an indication that you really
do need to cut back. So I certainly don't think
they're toxic, but we are certainly not out here promoting
(21:38):
the use of diet soft drinks or anything like that.
So just an interesting conversation I think to have between
health professionals.
Speaker 3 (21:45):
True, and you can't half tell.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
The end's a bit bitter that when we went to
lunch today she didn't get to have a glass of
brosee e.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Susie ordered an extra large one just despite.
Speaker 3 (21:54):
Me Deformationallyanne on the podcast.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
I will say though, that if I have a diet
coke in the night, I get itchy skin and always
have a terrible sleep. So that's actually what turns me
off because I love it too, but whenever I drink it,
it just keeps me up half the night. So there's
something in there. It's not even the caffeine, because it
doesn't matter what time I have it. There's something in
there that really irritates my skin and makes me so
that's my case study of one.
Speaker 3 (22:18):
So if I want to have a good sleep, I
can't have it anyway. That's enough.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
That's enough of that. That brings us to the end
of the nutrition couch for another week. Please keep telling
your friends about us, and we're excited to say that
we have got a new guide coming. We are very
busy putting together all of our favorite snacks, which is
proving to be bigger than ben Hurst. It's taking us
a bit longer than we thought, but that will be
out very very soon, maybe by the time the Anne
has her baby. So we will see you on Wednesday
(22:42):
for our midweek motivational drop.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
Thanks for listening, have a good week.
Are you a fairly routine person when it comes to
your eating and exercise habits. Do you find that you
eat a healthy, calorie controlled diet most of the time
but still can't budge any weight? Have you got a
long history of dieting and restrictive eating? And have you
ever wondered if you may need to reverse diet? On
today's episode of The Nutrition Couch, we take a closer
(00:22):
look at reverse dieting and science that it might be
the diet intervention that you need.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Hi.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
I'm Susie Burrow and Emily and Wood and.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Each week we bring you The Nutrition Couch, a biweekly
podcast that gets you up to date on everything you
need to know in the world of nutrition as well
as reverse dieting. Today we're taking a closer look at
the easy, practical ways you can improve your own blood
gluecose control, and our listener question is all about sweetness
and which are the ones to stay well clear of
(00:51):
and why so kick us off today, Leanne. A couple
of weeks ago, we had a little chat about the
importance of tipping aware of your blood glucose and and
HbA one C level, which is a marker of glucose
levels as you get older, because small changes or shifts
upwards can be suggestive that it's time to take some
action in terms of looking after your blood glucose and
(01:14):
making sure your insulin levels are not elevated in the background.
Very important for cell health, and I guess what we
probably didn't say in that chat was why it's important
because basically, even though glucose is the primary fuel for
the muscles and the brain, abnormally high levels of glucose
are extremely damaging to our cells. And one of the
(01:35):
things it does is basically age the cell more quickly,
certainly the look of cells and they become more damaged,
so it can contribute to aging. It leaves us more
prone to disease states and inflammation in the body. So
blood glucose control is a concept that's actually relevant to
all of us regardless of our risk of diabetes, although
(01:56):
it is more important for that. And if you sort
of were reading a lot about diets and nutrition even
going about twenty years, you would have been very familiar
with the concept of glycemic index that had been sort
of really thoroughly investigated and shared research from the University
of Sydney and Jenny brand Miller who pioneed a lot
of the early research in glycimic index, which basically showed
(02:17):
that different carbohydrate containing foods released glucose levels into the
blood at different rates. So we'd previously always spoke about
carbohydrates in terms of simple sugars and complex carbohydrates, but
what we now know is that the glycemic index, or
specifically glycemic load of different carbohydrate foods is predictive of
how quickly or how slowly those glucose levels peak and
(02:39):
reduce again, and it's those glucose peaks that we really
all of us want to steer well clear of because
that's when that damage at a cellular level is occurring.
And hence the general recommendation for whole grain and low
GI foods, so things like carbohydrates like legumes and whole
grains like oats, and foods that are minim processed compared
(03:01):
to say, refined cereals and grains like white rice or
refined cereals white brands.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
So it's kind of.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
An indirect marker of the quality of the food, but
quite important when it comes to looking after blood glucose levels.
So we thought it pertinent today to share some more
practical tips on easy ways we can all manage our
glucose levels better, because certainly there are benefits in terms
of appetite control how we feel each day. And I
always like to talk about it Leean in terms of
(03:30):
anti aging, because a lot of my clients are in
their forties and fifties, and certainly myself. You know, once
you start to lose your estrogen, you'll notice your skin
changes quite dramatically, and indeed, optimal blood glucose control is
a very powerful anti aging strategy. So if you need
to be convinced a little bit more, so, I'll run
through some of them and then I'll get Leanta to
add a few of her own. We could talk about
it in terms of exercise, but a tip you know,
(03:53):
exercise will certainly help remove glucose from the blood stream,
so it's all good.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
The more muscle mass we have, the better.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
But a little trickly, and I like to share with
my own clients, is to move after meals because that
is the time when the glucose levels will generally be
highest in the bloodstream. You know, if you've got up
in the morning and had a couple of slices of
toast or at lunchtime had some sushi, you know, relative
high amounts of carbohydrate, but often we go and sit
back at our desk or after dinner, we go and
sit down for several hours, and that's one of the
(04:20):
worst things you can do for blood glucose control. So certainly,
for anyone listening who's at high risk of diabetes or
has insulin resistance, you absolutely must commit to moving after
a meal. Twenty thirty minutes of a brisk walk would
be amazing, or at least cleaning up after dinner, having
your lunch at your desk at work and then going
for a walk, Because most of us could certainly do
a bit more on our feed after we eat to
aid that natural blood glucose removal. We want to keep
(04:43):
a close eye on carbohydrate intake. Now we're certainly not
encouraging people to follow low carb diets, but what we're
saying is there's a big difference between having a meal
that's got a piece of chicken, two cups of veggies,
and half a cup of brown rice, and having a
piece of chicken, half that amount of veggies and two
cups of white rice. So certainly, aiming for the lower
GI carbs like the veggies with their skin on like
(05:05):
a jacket, potato, brown or black rice in a control
portion lower GI carbs, but you've got to measure the
portions and that's where the glycemic load comes into it.
It's not enough just to have low GI foods. You've
also got to keep the portions controlled. And that's roughly
a third to half a cup is a small serve,
up to say three quarters to one for a larger
(05:25):
frame person or someone doing a lot of activity, but
certainly people might be having two or three times that,
particularly if you're eating meals away from the home, where
pasta and rice are often used as fillers or heavy
bread bases. So that's another easy trick. A few little
other tricks and sort of some growing evidence around is too.
A few supplements, so vinegar, apple, sided vinegar or vinegar
(05:48):
in general. Adding that to a meal will help to
lower the glycemic load of that food, as well as cinnamon.
So for example, if you have oats for breakfast, adding
some cinnamon it's a really great thing to add in
there to help regulate glucose. And also the supplement berberine,
which we spoke about recently. There is some evidence to
show that that too can aid blood glucose control. So
that's if you have some interest in supplementation and wanted
(06:11):
to try something, that's certainly one that is worth looking at,
as long as you stick to recommended doses and then
just a couple of other specific nutrient groups before I
pass to lean. Certainly, in Australia, our soil is extremely
low in the nutrient chromium, which is a trace mineral
found in a very small handful of foods and it's
closely linked to blood glucose control. Now, if you buy
(06:33):
any of those blood glucose control supplements, they often got
chromium added. Now I wouldn't encourage people to do that,
but I would encourage people to eat more foods with chromium,
which includes nuts, but also cocoa, So a bit of
dark chocolate or cocoa powder can really increase your intake
of chromium. Milo is another one, or ovaltine and also
magnesium rich food so again another nutrient that we tend
(06:54):
to not get enough of, very powerfully involved in glucose regulation.
And again some more evidence to include. To serve a
nuts each day, make sure you're having whole grains, whether
it's oats or whole grain bread or crackers with grains
in them, and at least a couple of serves of
leafy grains, So good reason to add a green type
juice or smoothie into your diet. So I feel like
I've spoken for two hours on that land.
Speaker 3 (07:15):
Would you like to add any of your.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
Own blood glucose control suggestions because.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
You are just sitting there, I feel like you've covered it.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
I will just go back to the point on apple
side of vinegar that is showing some new and exciting research.
But what I will say, if you're going to use it,
a lot of people are just shotting it by itself
before a meal. And certainly there has been some good
evidence to show that that does actively help to reduce
blood sugar levels, which has been very good for you know,
diabetics and those that are insulin resistant. But what I
will say from a dentist' perspective, or what my dentist
(07:43):
has told me, is that it really doesn't do much
with the enamel and your teeth whatsoever. So you really
want to be diluting your vinegar, and if you're drinking
it just in water, even drinking it through a straw
because otherwise it will actually wear down the enamel in
your teeth long term. So the better way to use
vinegar and when it comes to trying to regulate it
your blood glucose levels is actually, like Susie said, adding
it as part of in like a salad dressing or
(08:04):
adding it to the meal. Obviously, you know, gotta put
apple side vinegar into a smoothie, that would be disgusting,
But you know, if you can put it into more
of a main meal, try to really utilize it as
part of like a salad dressing or something, and you
only need a little bit as well. And then probably
my other tip Susie, is just to balance your meals.
Like I say it to clients all the time, and
particularly at the moment it's cold, it's winter, there's a
(08:25):
lot of bugs and flus going around. I'd say fifty
percent of my clients are sick or have been sick
within the last month. There's just like every bug known
to man floating around at the moment. And all we
want when it's cold, we're sick, we want that comfort food.
So clients are like, oh, I didn't feel like anything,
but I just had two slices of bread with veggiamot
and butter. I didn't feel like anything, so I just had,
you know, some two minute noodles, or I just had
(08:46):
some white rice or just something random, and it just
tends to be a car balone. So I say to them,
that's fine, but you've got to try to pair your
carbohydrate foods with something else, predominantly a bit of protein
or a bit of fat or a bit of fire
for some vegetables, and that helps to slow down the
digestion of the blood glucose in the bloodstream. So really,
just try to avoid eating carbohydrates by themselves. I even
(09:09):
say to clients, if you want a soul food, if
you want a handful of lollies, if you want a
bit of cake, like, try not to have it by itself.
Try to have your main meal first and then have
a little bit of a treat afterwards, versus just skipping
dinner all together and having a couple of handballs of
lollies or something like that. So the best thing you
can do from a blood sugar regulation perspective is actually
eat things like vegetables and whole grains and protein first
(09:31):
and then have a little bit of your treat or
your soul food afterwards, or just avoid eating just carbohydrates
by themselves. If you feel like fruit, great, but pair
it with a bit of nut butter. Some fat will
slow down the digestion of the car but you feel
like some fruit, pair it with some full fat Greek
yogurt because the protein in the fat will slow down
the digestion of the carbohydrates. So it's really about learning
to balance your meal and not just having carbohydrates by
(09:54):
themselves or too high a load of carbohydrates, like Susi said.
So the type matters, the mountain matters, and the timing
matters as well for blood glucose control. All right, and
then we're going to kick on to our next section
at Susie, which is on reversed arting. Now we talked
about this. I know it was in January. It was
one of out early was it this year or was
it the year before. I feel like it was even
the year before.
Speaker 3 (10:14):
Yeah, it was one of the first episodes.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
But when we look back at our numbers, it was
one of our highest rated episode.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
It is our high like it's had well over twenty
thousand listeners, I think close to you know, thirty thousand
listeners today it's huge and we're like, what is it
about reverse darting? And I think it's this newer concept
where there's not a lot of like there's no official rules,
like what is reverse starting. There's no official term, there's
no official rules. It's essentially when I think of reverse darting, Susie,
it's a period of increasing calories, whether that's within a
(10:43):
deficit or whether that's at the end of a deficit.
How I tend to use it for my clients is
at the end of a deficit. So so they had
a goal of say ten killers a weight loss, we
achieve the goal, we don't want to leave them on
low calories forever. We slowly want to reintroduce those calories
and build them back up to their maintenance calories long term.
So that's where I use reversed arting for my clients.
But I know there's been a lot of talk lately
(11:05):
in terms of using reverse art almost on a weekly basis,
almost like calorie cycling. So you have periods of low
days and you have periods of high days as well.
So there's been a lot of talk of reversed arting,
and I think it kind of falls under a couple
of different terms, but to me, it's almost like that
carboor calorie cycling a lot of people tend to use
it for. But I also have seen it being very
(11:25):
helpful for my clients when they hit a bit of
a plateau. Now, the thing is, when you hit a
bit of a plateau metabolically, you've kind of downregulated, the
body has kind of got used to what you're doing.
You have to give it a bit of a shakeup,
and you've often got three options. You can do a
bit more activity, you can pull back on nutrition, or
you can actually add a little bit more nutrition in.
But I think the kicker is susy and where people
(11:45):
go wrong is they go right, I'm going to add
a bit more calories in to support myself metabolically. That's great,
but they overdo it so they don't just take themselves
back to maintenance calories. They overshoot maintenance calories and they
go way into a surplus. So with reversed art, the
goal would be to either maintain the fat loss to
date or to kick it up a notch and actually
(12:05):
get a little bit more off as well. And I
have very much seen this happen with my client suity.
We start a period of reverse darting, we slowly introduce
calories and they drop weight and they're like, how is
this possible that I'm eating more? Like I hit a plateau,
I'm now eating more and I'm still losing a little
bit of weight. It's that that reverse darting metabolically, the
body just does well with a little bit more fuel
(12:26):
and a little bit more calories. But it's nothing crazy.
You know, if you're going to hit a plateau and
then you think, oh, well, screw it, it's a plateau.
You know, I'm come off the diet. Then you go
and have a big weekend, bend a w you're having
do three four thousand calories, you are going to gain weight.
So the thing with reverse darting and is that you
want to add in some extra calories, but you want
to do it in a strategic way where it's not
(12:46):
too much. And that's very dependent on the person, very
dependent on your body size. You know how you are metabolically,
how much you've lost, how long you've been in a
deficit for So I would say most people would benefit
from a couple of hundred calories definitely, not a couple
of thousand calories if you're having a big weekend vendor,
I really do think that you're going to be gaining
(13:06):
weight versus losing, because the idea is with reverse darting
is you either want to come out of the deficit
completely back to maintenance, or you want to use it
as a bit of a buffer to keep yourself going
metabolically and just kind of get yourself past that plateau.
If you're using it to pass the plateau but you're
going to continue on in a fat loss phase, I
wouldn't be adding more than i'd say three four hundred
calories max in because I really think that's going to
(13:29):
backfire if you do too much more than that, and
you will actively gain a little bit of weight, which
is fine if you can keep that in check for
a week or two then put yourself back into the deficit.
But I think a lot of people struggle once they
start readding calories back in to then go back the
other way. So I tend to use it really at
the end of a period of darting for my clients,
or when we know metabolically they're kind of tapped out,
like we can't really do any more exercise. We can't
(13:51):
really pull back on nutrition anymore. The only real way
to go from there is to add calories back in.
So I tend to use it at the end of
a deficit, but I do know that people use it
more of like a you know, calorie cycling kind of
thing along the way. So what are your thoughts in
reverse darting. Do you use it a lot with your clients?
Speaker 1 (14:06):
I think it's fascinating concept because certainly I often have
clients who fit that criteria of you know, long term
thy twelve hundred calorie eaters, or they've done the eight
hundred calorie diet and they're just stuck.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
So they're not.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
Necessarily needing to lose twenty kilos, but they're still holding
five six and it's just they can't. They're exercising, you know,
they're basically in too much of a deficit, and then
to grade them up slowly. But what I would say,
it takes time. You can't go from eating eight hundred
one thousand calories for months and then expect it to change.
(14:42):
You've really got to do it very slowly, and you've
got to commit fully. So I also see the situation
where clients will increase the calories for two or three
days and then go back to restriction or exercise more
and it just doesn't work. It's really about consistency and
working through it.
Speaker 3 (14:58):
So it's a true one.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
You're sort of one of the probably i would say,
the experts in the area, but you're right. It has
been coming up more and more in sort of media
people talking about it because I think Leanne there's a
lot of people who have done these really restricted diets
for long periods and you know, without using profanities on
the podcast, they've really stuffed their metabolism. So it's consistency
over time and really allowing that two three month period
(15:23):
of consistent eating to start to shift it. But you've
got to trust in the process because yeah, just doing
it for a couple of days won't see results.
Speaker 3 (15:31):
You've got to be patient, all right.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
Well, for our final segment of today, this actually came
from one of our listener questions and we do go
through those lists to get content, so if there's something
and a few people have put some really good topics
down recently and I've been like, that's really helpful, we'll
take it. So this one has come from that on
our Instagram and it's a question about sweetness and are
they as toxic as they've spoken about, because certainly in
(15:57):
sensationalized METEA articles artificial sweetness, which we're.
Speaker 3 (16:00):
We're traditionally you know, the sucrolos and the.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
Splendor and the espartan based options that came through in
the eighties and seventies, and we're in the original kind
of diet cloke and pepsi and indeed are still in
a number of those.
Speaker 3 (16:13):
Kind of traditional soft drinks.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
You know, there's always been questioned about whether they're bad
for us. Now, you could pull thousands of research papers.
Some show no issue, some show that they disrupt the
cell and have neurological impacts, particularly when they interact with preservatives.
Speaker 3 (16:30):
I think the issue for Melian is not.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
They're certainly not toxic, but you'd have to question how
good they are for us. And the issue is that
artificial sweetener is up to two hundred times sweeter than
sugar itself, so there is evidence to show it does
prime the brain to look for more sweet food. Now,
anecdotally I find that it drives appetite, So you know,
there's some sort of discussion that when the body realizes
(16:53):
it hasn't had the calories, it sort of has a
rebound effect. So my position on them is, like most
things in moderation, it's not the end of the world.
But if you're sucking on two three diet cokes a day,
it's probably not great for you. It won't be great
for your sleep, and it is an artificial process absolutely
processed food soft drink in general, but of course you know,
artificial sweetener is highly processed, and as dieticians, we're always
(17:14):
trying to minimize the amount of processed food. So we're
certainly not saying that full strength soft trink's better. We're
saying if people were going to have one, a diet's better,
and then what would be better again is to have
a naturally sweetened alternative. So I think it sits in
that middle ground. It's not black and white. I certainly
wouldn't call them toxic, but I certainly wouldn't say they're
good for us. I would try and minimize them in
the diet, and if you have one of those suggestions
(17:35):
that you're quite addicted to it and needed, i'd start
to wean off. So if you're someone who's having two
three diet cokes a day or similar kind of products.
I'd start just to wean down over time, because basically
for media and the less sweet food in the.
Speaker 3 (17:47):
Diet we have, the better.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
An artificial sweetener is going to give you a lot
of sweetness in the diet.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
And I've certainly seen that with a lot of my
clients where it goes from being this, oh, I'm just
going to have one occasionally too. I now have one
a day with my lunch. Now I'm having one with
lunch and with dinner every day. Now I'm up to
three cans a day. So it's very much something that
I think the more you have, the more the body wants,
and the more the body seems to crave. So I'm
like you, I don't really have a problem with my
clients having it occasionally. You know, if they're going to
(18:13):
go to a backyard barbecue and everyone else is chowering
down on alcohol or full strink soft drinks, yeah, I'd
much rather they had a diet coke or a diet
lemonade or something. I mean, sure water is the preferable choice,
but you know, sometimes you just you know, especially after
you know, been pregnant, feeling in nine months, sometimes just
water doesn't cut it, do you know what I mean? Like,
sometimes you just want something a little more. So my
choice would be a kombucha or sparkling water with a
(18:34):
bit of line. But sure I'm partial to a little
bit of a diet soft drink or something like that.
If it's hot, it's summer, everybody else around me is
drinking delicious things. I can't partake in any alcoholic beverages.
I'm certainly going to have something more so than just
water day in and day out. Put it that way,
So obviously water herbal teas are our best choices, but
I certainly don't think they're toxic either. But I think
where this question really originated from was there's a lot
(18:57):
of media talk this week online because the World Health
Organization or WHO recently released these new guidelines that were
actually commenting against the use of non sugar sweetness.
Speaker 3 (19:09):
So they're actually.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
Recommending that, you know, they're the recommended health body worldwide,
they were actually saying that you shouldn't use them, particularly
if you're somebody that needs to control their body weight
or has diabetes. So essentially their recommendations were based on
their findings of a systematic review that suggested that the
use of non sugar sweetness didn't actually offer any long
(19:30):
term benefits in reducing body fat in adults or children.
And then this review went on to say that there
may also have been potential undesirable effects in the long
term use of these non sugar sweetness such as an
increased risk of type two diabetes, an increased risk of
cardiovascular disease, and even mortality in adults. So people kind
of took that and went like nuts with it, and
(19:51):
people were very polarized. They are either all for it
or they're all against it. And I mean, like you said, Susie,
if you look up, there have been so many studies
in good quality, bigger systematic you know, not just systematic
reviews like big you know, big RCT type studies that
show that you know, sometimes they're safe, sometimes they are not.
If you put two populations together, you've got you know,
two sets of obese people. The ones using you know,
(20:13):
diet soft drinks will lose more weight than the ones
that aren't using diet soft drinks. So they can be
shown in a lot of research articles to be quite helpful.
But I think it's really around the amount that you're
having and the frequency that you're having it. So I
don't necessarily agree with the position statement that you should
avoid them all together, because I think that when you're
looking at the large percentage of the group that does
(20:34):
have these drinks, they are people who are living in
bodies that are, you know, much larger than they should be.
They are the overweight and obese population. So it's kind
of like what came first, the chicken or the egg,
Like it's like, did they already have an increased risk
of type two diabetes anyway? Or are they drinking these
diet soft drinks and now they have an increased risk
of type two diabetes. So I think that was where
a lot of people online that was a bit of
(20:56):
uproar about because they were like, it's just not a
great quality study to be base seeing a worldwide recommendation on.
So I think we're the same positions Zuzie here on
the nutrition coush. If you enjoy them, have them occasionally,
make sure that if you are finding them creeping more
and more and more into your diet, you just kind
of cut it off and go a bit cold turkey
for a while. But Lazizi said they do tend to
(21:17):
prime the brain into wanting more and more sweet things.
If you're someone that has a diet coke with your
lunch every day or every other day, then you're finding
that your sugar cravings after dinner are really getting up there.
Or you have lunch and the diet cook doesn't quite
cut it and you feel like something sweet around two
pm every day, maybe that's an indication that you really
do need to cut back. So I certainly don't think
they're toxic, but we are certainly not out here promoting
(21:38):
the use of diet soft drinks or anything like that.
So just an interesting conversation I think to have between
health professionals.
Speaker 3 (21:45):
True, and you can't half tell.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
The end's a bit bitter that when we went to
lunch today she didn't get to have a glass of
brosee e.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Susie ordered an extra large one just despite.
Speaker 3 (21:54):
Me Deformationallyanne on the podcast.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
I will say though, that if I have a diet
coke in the night, I get itchy skin and always
have a terrible sleep. So that's actually what turns me
off because I love it too, but whenever I drink it,
it just keeps me up half the night. So there's
something in there. It's not even the caffeine, because it
doesn't matter what time I have it. There's something in
there that really irritates my skin and makes me so
that's my case study of one.
Speaker 3 (22:18):
So if I want to have a good sleep, I
can't have it anyway. That's enough.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
That's enough of that. That brings us to the end
of the nutrition couch for another week. Please keep telling
your friends about us, and we're excited to say that
we have got a new guide coming. We are very
busy putting together all of our favorite snacks, which is
proving to be bigger than ben Hurst. It's taking us
a bit longer than we thought, but that will be
out very very soon, maybe by the time the Anne
has her baby. So we will see you on Wednesday
(22:42):
for our midweek motivational drop.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
Thanks for listening, have a good week.
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