Mission Transition: SkillBridge's Role in Civilian Careers | The Pair Program Ep51 - The Pair Program

Episode Transcript
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Tim Winkler (00:04):
Welcome to The Pair Program from hatchpad, the podcast that gives you
a front row seat to candid conversationswith tech leaders from the startup world.
I'm your host, Tim Winkler, thecreator of hatchpad, and I'm
your other host, Mike Gruen.
Join us each episode as we bringtogether two guests to dissect topics
at the intersection of technology,startups, and career growth.

(00:32):
Welcome back to The Pair Program.
I'm your host, Tim Winkler,alongside my co host, Mike Gruen.
Uh, Mike, all the, all the talkaround here is, is back to school.
Um, so are your, your kids,are they the type that are
like super excited about that?
Are they dreading it?
Oh yeah.
Two

Mike Gruen (00:49):
teenage boys.
Oh, they're raring to go back.
They are now.
They, I was going to say, the only,the only, um, I think the only exciting
thing is that for my older one,he's a senior, so that'll be nice.
Uh, sort of the end is insight, at least for high school.
And then my, um, my younger one isgoing to be a freshman this year.
So he's going to do school.

(01:09):
So there's a mix of excitementand, you know, I'm sure anxiety and
dread, um, going to do all that.
So,

um,

Mike Gruen (01:18):
but yeah, I always love to see

like all the parents with just a look of glee on their face.
Like get these kids out of here.
I've had enough.
The summer's over a little bit.
I don't know.

Mike Gruen (01:27):
I like having them around, um, during the summer.
Um, I don't know.
You're just saying that because this

isn't going to go live and they'll No, no, no, not at all.
Your wife will stream it.

Mike Gruen (01:37):
No, not at all because I do also, when they go to school, the
nice thing about them coming home fromschool is that it's like a nice, like a
little reminder, like, Hey, like, thisis how many hours I've been working.
Um, so it's sort of a nice little reminderof like, start wrapping things up.
Um, because I think I put them,put everybody home all the time.
It's, it's easy to go till nine o'clockat night and not even realize it.

Are you just saying that because your boss is going
to stream this and hear this?
Yeah, that's a, that'sactually, that's absolutely it.
Nailed it.
Uh, my, uh, my parent, my parent will,will, will play off of back to school.
So, um.
There you go.
All right, good stuff.
Well, uh, let's go ahead and, uh, uh,give the listeners a little bit of a
preview of what we're, we're talkingabout, uh, on this, today's episode.

(02:23):
So we've got a pretty action packedepisode for, for our listeners.
It's, it's centered entirelyaround, um, uh, the Department
of Defense Skill Bridge Program.
Uh, so for those not familiar, the SkillBridge Program is an opportunity for,
uh, military service members to To gaina valuable civilian work experience

(02:43):
through specific industry trainingor apprenticeships or internships
during their last 180 days of service.
Uh, so skill bridge connectsthese, uh, transitioning service
members with industry partnersand real world job experiences.
So this will be a useful episode for,for startups and employers that are
looking to, to maybe engage or hireservice members and likewise for

(03:06):
Um, you know, uh, military memberstransitioning into civilian life.
Uh, this will be a nice little,uh, maybe how to, if you've
never dabbled with it before.
Uh, so with us today is, uh, JohnSokol, uh, former naval flight officer
with 20 years of, uh, distinguishedmilitary service, uh, who successfully
transitioned into civilian lifethrough the skill bridge program.

(03:30):
Uh, and then alongside John, we haveCameron Watts, the innovation director
at a dual use startup, Zero Eyes.
Uh, that hires extensivelythrough the skill bridge program.
Uh, and I'll point out that Cam has amilitary background as well as a former
member of the 75th Ranger Regiment.
Uh, paired with a career in theworld of venture capital prior

(03:50):
to joining zero eyes as well.
So John and Cam, thank you bothfor your service and thank you for
joining us on The Pair Program today.

Cameron Watts (03:58):
Thanks for having us.
Absolutely.
Pleasure to be here.

All right.
Uh, so before we dive in, we do kickthings off with our pair me up segment.
Uh, here's where we all kind ofgo around the room and spitball a
complimentary pairing of our choice.
Mike, uh, you lead us off.
What do you, what do you got?

Mike Gruen (04:14):
So today's, um, is not particularly exciting,
but I'm excited about it.
Cause I'm a nerd, um,knickknacks and museum wax.
So as you can see behind me,those who can't, I have a bunch
of stuff on the shelves back here.
Um, we also have cats andthere's also not a lot of space.
So just this morning, uh,I got some museum wax.
It arrived.

(04:35):
I'm looking forward to sticking all ofmy things down so they stop falling over.
So, um, and it's what they use in museums.
It's like, you, it's semi permanent.
Like you can move them,but like, it's, it's.
They're down and it's not meantfor like moving them around again.
So, uh, but it's, it comes off cleanand all that, but I'm, I'm excited to

(04:55):
get all my stuff locked down back there.
Cause I'm tired of cleaning it up.
Uh, bring it back.

And that is you're nerding out on this one.
That was, that was, uh,I've never heard of that.
I didn't even know that was a thing.
Oh,

Mike Gruen (05:08):
I stumbled on it and I, I had no idea that it existed.
And then I read it, somebody postedsomething about it and I was like,
oh, I need to look into that.
That's, I need that in my life.
, I,

I remember my uncle used to have these, um, little shadow boxes that
would hang on the wall, you know, andjust put like these little trinkets in it
and, you know, someone was roughhousingaround, , it'd bump into the wall.
Like they all, they alljust kind of like fall out.
So I could see museum wax being a.
A useful, uh, addition tosomething like that, but yeah.

(05:40):
All right.
Um, cool.
All right.
I'll, I'll, uh, I'll jump in.
Uh, so again, kind of given that it'sback to school week, uh, I'll turn
back the hands of time to when I wasin elementary school and thinking about
some classic pairings from like a snackand lunch perspective, I was going
to go with Lunchables and Capri Suns.

(06:01):
Uh, it's like a good one, twopunch for like food and drink.
in elementary school back in the day.
I don't know if they even still makethese, uh, processed foods, uh, like
they, like they used to, but forthose that don't remember Lunchables,
uh, I feel sorry for you cause theywere amazing, but they're these
little individual pre packaged meals.
With lunch meats and littlecheeses and crackers.

(06:24):
So it's like a little kid version of acharcuterie board and then Capri suns.
If you don't know what Capri sunsare, then I just, I might've lost
her words, but it's a staple kiddrink, uh, packed with sugar and.
They come in that little impossible toopen metallic pouch that you stab with
a straw and it just spills everywhere.
Um, those, that's my, that's my,yeah, throwback, uh, pairing.

(06:47):
So I'm going Lunchablesand, uh, and Capri Suns.
You guys know what I'm talkingabout with Lunchables, right?
I'm too old.
You don't remember,

Mike Gruen (06:56):
Mike?
It's not that I don't remember.
I was, I was in college.
Like, yeah.

You really showed your age there by, by defining the two.
You know, you can sort of throw inthe dunkaroos with those as well.
Some gushers.
Exactly.
There still exists, but they're onthat like side of the aisles that,
you know, you don't go anymore.
You're at the forbidden,the forbidden aisle.

Uh, all right, cool.
Let's, let's pass it over to our guest.
Uh, John, we'll start, start withyou a quick intro and your pairing.

John Sokol (07:29):
Yeah.
So, hey, how are you doing?
Uh, John, so cool.
Uh, again, Serve Navy navalflight officer flew, which is
playing probably barely ever seen.
If you look close on aircraft carrier,you'll kind of see it in a corner because
no 1 likes it because it has propellersand it's not a jet that does cool stuff.
So, uh, but again, look quick.
You'll see it.

(07:49):
Uh, did that for 20 years, retired lastyear, then joined the company I work for
now, which is called Two Circle, whichwe do, uh, consulting work for the Navy.
So it's been great.
Uh, go back to the pairing.
So I'm originally from Pittsburgh,Pennsylvania, a big Steelers fan.
I was thinking through, you know, kindof, Time of season right now getting

(08:10):
excited for the start of the season,and I think for me, a good pairing
opening day of football, especially inthe Steelers this year, play one o'clock
game against the Falcons, you know,a couple Sundays from now, opening a
day of football and a good cold beer.

That's

John Sokol (08:25):
my

preach.
I'm getting super excited.
It's that, uh, there's that crispcrispness in the air that always
like makes me feel like thefootball season is about to begin.
So I as well, I'm getting pretty excited.
We're Commander's fans here, youknow, it's complete 180 on our, on
our, uh, entire team coaching staff.
So there's a lot to look forward toconsidering we won what four games

(08:50):
last year, but, um, yeah, you guysare, uh, you guys are always, you
know, in contention, I think, right.

John Sokol (08:58):
I mean, I feel like this year, this is one of those, you can
tell me they're going to be, youknow, five and 12 or 12 and five, both
of which are completely reasonable.
So I, it'll be an interesting season.

It'll entirely dictate your, your credit card bill on the alcohol
consumption, uh, throughout the season.
I like that one beer or 50.
We'll see how the game goes.
Um, cool.
Well, thanks again for joining us.
Cam, how about yourself?
Quick intro and you're pairing.

Yeah, absolutely.
So camera Watts, uh, as, as you said,uh, spent some time with, uh, first
range of battalion, uh, down in Savannahat hunter army airfield, uh, which is
where I still live over here in Savannah.
So enjoying the humidity and the heat.
Um, but, uh, yeah, so we're coveringventure capitalists who has now
worked, uh, at a, uh, a portfoliocompany that we invested in years

(09:49):
ago and, um, on the product team asthe investment director at zero eyes.
Um, working on weapons detection.
Um, so I'm going to let that kind oflead into, uh, my perfect pairing,
which is birdies and bullets.
So I got the golf clubs andthen the weapons detection.
So, uh, that's the perfect pairing for me.
Birdies and bullets.
I do shoot as well.
So I, uh, I'll keep neither one isas straight as I'd like it to be.

(10:11):
So yeah.

I was going to say, how many birdies are you
averaging out there on a round?

Yeah, so it, uh, right now I'd say none, um, but,
uh, you know, I think I'm abouta 14 handicap, 13 these days.
So sounds like they

trickle in women, but it holds her short.
Sounds like you and I wouldbe great car partners.
I'm right.
I'm right there with you.

I'm a blast to play with.
That's all that matters.

Hey, we actually talked earlier.
I'll be down there in a month or so.
So looking forward to, uh, youknow, teeing it up with you.
Awesome.
Well, thanks.
Thanks again for joining us, Cam.
Um, and, uh, that'll kind of wrap usup on, on the, uh, pair me up segment.
So let's go ahead and transitioninto the heart of the discussion.
So like I mentioned, we're, we'retalking about the skill bridge

(10:56):
program on today's episode and.
Uh, so I was doing some additionalresearch both on, on skill bridge and
a little bit more on, on zero eyes cam.
And I stumbled across an interestingquote from one of your co founders,
uh, and the COO of zero eyes, RobHuberty, uh, who's a former Navy SEAL.
And for a little further context,you know, zero eyes is a veteran

(11:17):
owned and operated companyfounded by former Navy SEALs.
We'll get, we'll get more into that.
But this quote, I wanted to share itwith our listeners because I think it's
a great jump off to the conversationaround the importance of skill bridge,
um, beyond just, you know, the opportunityspecifically as, as well, but Rob
said, uh, and I quote, my transitionfrom the military to civilian life

(11:37):
was more difficult than I imagined.
I struggled to find meaningin the corporate world.
Uh, so did the rest of the Zero Eyes team.
After the military, we all hadjobs that were generally considered
good, maybe even great, and went touniversities considered excellent.
But we lacked a mission driven purpose.
Um, there's a little bit moreto the quote, but I just I'm
gonna end it right there.

(11:58):
So I wanted to start the discussionwith UCAM and maybe expanding a
little bit more on a little biton the origin story of Zero Eyes
and how Skill Bridge has become a.
Maybe a fundamental part ofthe growth, uh, at the startup.
And then from there, we can dive alittle bit deeper into the, how the,
how the program works, uh, from theemployer perspective, and then we'll

(12:20):
bounce over to you, John, and hear from,you know, the candidate perspective,
somebody going through the program.
So, so Cam, why don't you lead us off?

Yeah, absolutely.
So, um, Rob's quote could not bemore heartfelt on my end as well.
So, um, when I got out, I was,you know, treading water, trying
to figure out what to do next,but, but I can get to that later.
So, uh, Zero Eyes was, was, uh, broughtto inception, um, from, like I said,
a group of Navy SEALs, uh, Mike Leahy,the CEO, um, you know, there was some,

(12:49):
some active shooter scenarios going on.
And his daughter looked at him oneday and asked if that was going to
happen at his school, at her school.
And, uh, you know, he started at P.
K.
Meetings and things kind of probing him.
Hey, what sort of protocols do youhave in place and things like that?
And he kind of just the moreand more he dove into it.
Um, you know, the more and morescared he got of the situation.

(13:09):
So, uh, instead of, uh, you know,sitting back and worrying about
it, decided to do something.
And, uh, created what we have today,uh, you know, started with, uh, a bunch
of guys in the basement walking around,uh, and putting guns up in front of
different cameras and getting themto register it from different angles.
So, um, since then, you know, 6, 7 yearsnow, and, uh, series B just did a, uh.

(13:33):
A pretty nice funding round.
So, um, yeah, and then besides startingwith veterans, um, being founded by
veterans, that, that mission drivengroup and, and, and finding that
purpose has really been so deep intothe culture that it's incredible.
Um, it, it brought me in and,and, uh, you know, brings a lot
of us into the, to the unit.

(13:53):
Uh, and again, we kind oflook at it as a unit, right?
Everybody's got your back and everybodygets what they need to get done.
And there's a lot less of that.
You know, red tape andbureaucracy that you see at
some of the large organizations.
Um, but, but, yeah, so skill bridge hasbeen incredible, uh, benefit to zero eyes.
I think just a quick number for youover the past 2 years, we've hired out

(14:15):
22 of the, uh, skill bridge in there.
So, uh, huge opportunity for us topull great talent in and then bring
them on, um, you know, immediatelyfollowing their internship.

Mike Gruen (14:26):
That's awesome.

So how, how does it, how does it work?
So how, how does, uh, anorganization kind of get involved?
Um, and then what are the, what arethe benefits from, you know, everything
from like, skills, you know, workethic or, um, cost, you know, where,
where might there, where are, aresome of these ad advant advantages
to an employer getting involved?

Yeah, so so realistically, you know, you're getting let's
kind of start with best practices.
I think is that so so as the organization,you, you sign up through skill bridge
and you put yourself out there saying,hey, we're open up to opportunities.
And here's kind of the list there.
And again, this is me learningin hindsight, because it did
not exist on on my exodus.

(15:12):
But, you know, so so it's out there and.
You, the candidate will go on, look, lookat the organization, either done by maybe
region or, you know, organization type,what, what industry it's in, things like
that kind of filter it down for them,and then they'll, uh, submit a resume
that'll come in and, uh, you know, we,we actually have a dedicated skill bridge

(15:34):
kind of owner at, at zero eyes that, that.
Manages all of that, and it goes outand really started to push further
initiatives into skill bridge becauseit's been so successful for us.
But, um, you know, go in there andthen start to pair them not only
with what their resume says, orwhat their military, um, you know,
kind of background was because thatdoesn't always immediately translate.
So then kind of startto do a little bit of a.

(15:56):
Personality and character traitsthat that'll match with certain
parts of the organization.
Um, you know, hey, this, this1 will fit over here at ops.
This 1 may want to be on the install team.
This 1 makes that on theproduct team, et cetera.
Um, and we've also looked at kindof rotational programs to kind of
say, okay, hey, this is this issomebody who's got a decent skill

(16:16):
set in a couple of different areas.
But could really hone and gain someexposure in other areas of business.
And then they can hop aroundthe organization through
different departments, which,which really allows them to, uh,
build some experience quickly.
And that's extremely advantageous becauseit's kind of that catch 22, right?
Like, Hey, how do I get experiencewithout having experience?
Right.

(16:36):
And, uh, you know, so it kind ofpushes that, um, a little bit inwards.
And, and then from there, I think, youknow, if it's not a fit for zero eyes, one
of the benefits, the kind of the startupecosystem and the venture ecosystem
is the networking that that's done.
So we also, if it doesn't fit for usor maybe we don't fit for them, we very
quickly open up our Rolodex and startto place them at other places as well.

(16:59):
So, um, you're getting talent thatyou wouldn't necessarily get to see.
And, uh, as well as justthe talent that's there.
Yeah.
They're not typically putting themselvesout there because they kind of have
a little bit of an imposter syndrome.
Maybe they're getting out and they don'tthink that they're qualified enough yet.
So they're, they're not pushinginto those, uh, arenas yet,
but, but everybody's got theopportunity and the chance.

(17:22):
So getting that visibility is,is really been successful for us.

Yeah, I think that's really interesting.
Like the, like the carousel approachwhere it's like, you know, spend some
time in finance and spend some time inproduct, spend some time here and there.
So.
Um, I think that's, uh, I've seenthat in, in internships before.
And I think that's a really niceapproach to folks that don't really
always know what they're going to do.

That's right.
I was raised with the mindset of,uh, to the man with, with only a
hammer, every problem's a nail.
So, uh, now I just try tokeep building my toolbox, uh,
instead of just having a hammer.

I love it.
I was curious on cost.
Is there a cost to the, the employer,um, or is there actually a savings
considering It sounds like these, theseindividuals are still, are they, are
they most, most, for the most part actstill active duty for the last 180 days?

Yeah, that's right.
So, you know, kind of best practicesof it would be to start figuring
that out about 180 days out and in aperfect scenario, you, you, you get
a hybrid situation or it can be kindof full time, um, on premises, right?
It just, it's really up to the, uh,the candidate themselves, um, or
to the company and how they set it.
We, we are a relativelyhybrid, uh, organization.

(18:35):
So, so we're open to that.
And, uh, you know, we also havefull time remote positions, but
we also have ones in the office.
And we have a.
Location in Hawaii.
So, uh, I feel there's probably a lotof appeal to go there for 180 days.
So I think that's somethingthat will really ramp up here
shortly, uh, at our ZOC, the ZeroEyes Operation Center out there.

(18:55):
So, um, yeah, there's nocost to the company, uh, no
cost to the individual there.
It's technically like they just tooka, you know, a little break for 180
days before they get out officiallyand then go hop on, um, hop on the
bus and see where it takes them.

Cool.
We'll, um, we'll, we'll, we'llget a little bit deeper into it.
Um, as we, as we get through a littlebit more of John's, uh, feedback on the
program as well, because we actually hada former guest on the program, uh, on
The Pair Program that, um, you know, kindof talked a little bit more about, uh,
uh, a startup that he was building that.

(19:32):
I saw some holes in the program wherethere was room for some improvement.
Um, but, uh, I, I do want to hearJohn from your perspective, you
know, walk me through, you know, uh,from a service members, you know,
mindset, you know, getting introducedto skill bridge, you know, is there.
Is there a lot of awareness around it?

(19:52):
Um, how did you hear about it?
And then how was your experience kindof transitioning using the program?

John Sokol (20:00):
Yeah, so, um, I guess everything Cam said is pretty accurate
as far as like, uh, my experience aswell once I got to my skill bridge.
Uh, so, leading up to, uh, Uh,my actual retirement, which
was last March 1st or whatever.
Um, I started looking around.
I mean, I think skill bridge at this pointis one of those things that I think most

(20:22):
service members have probably heard of.
The problem is it's like, you can'tget from God that I've heard of it.
Now, how do I actually do it?
And that's where I think, you know,there's like kind of a disconnect with
all these guys and, you know, ladiesand everything coming out, it's like.
There's no, there's no formalized process.
There's no, I'm going to call the schoolbridge office today and talk to them and
they can help me out in this process.

(20:44):
So, you know, from that, you know, youkind of have to be a little more forward
leaning and, um, which is easy enoughfor me, you know, a little more senior.
Kind of been around things, kind ofunderstand how organizations work.
So for me to do it, it reallywasn't hard, you know, as far as
the Navy was concerned, it wasliterally a single sheet of paper.

(21:04):
I filled it out, handed it to my boss.
He signed it and I was done.
And then I was kind of free tostart looking around for scope,
rich, you know, opportunity.
Um, and I did that same thing wentto that lousy website that, you
know, you can filter out, go byregion, all that kind of stuff.
I live in Virginia, so I wanted tostay close by and I did, uh, found 1

(21:26):
with steel, the chainsaw manufacturer.
And, uh, which was awesome.
Kind of the same thing.
Like Cam said, for them, we had,there was a, uh, you know, it was like
that point of contact that was on thewebsite, contacted them again, kind of
had to be forward leaning, go in there.
I eventually talked to somebody whogot me in touch eventually with a guy.
Basically what he did, he waslike, Hey, he's like going to the

(21:47):
website, look at job openings.
Pick a department you mightthink is interesting and then
we'll kind of go from there.
And so I picked e commerce just because itwas something kind of outside of obviously
what I've done and seemed interesting.
So he got me in contact with the directorof e commerce there, which by the way,
steel, you know, you see them all overcommercials, everything like that.

(22:09):
At that point.
In the United States, the e commercedepartment at seal was one human being,
that guy, which still kind of blowsmy mind away, but I would just think
they would have a few more folks.
So, you know, like you're talkingto him, he's like, yeah, it's me.
You know, we, uh, talked to himfor a while and he's like, yeah,

(22:29):
I think it'd be a good fit.
And, uh, you know, wewere off to the races.
He brought me on, uh, kind of didthe same thing, just like, uh, Cam
was saying He was awesome dude to,uh, work for and with and everything.
He was like, Hey, you know, ife commerce isn't your thing.
And really at that point, I kindof realized it wasn't my thing.
Cause it was a, uh, likeanalytics type, uh, role.
And I just couldn't be like heads downa computer, just analyzing data all the

(22:53):
time, which is kind of not how I work.
So, uh, but that was fine.
It was, you know, in and of itself,that was the education I learned.
Do you, you know, sometimesit's not just learning that day.
I love this thing.
It's learning.
I don't love this thing too.
So that's what, that was my case.
Yeah.
Uh, but he allowed me to go around to thedifferent departments in steel and just
kind of talk to folks, get a feel forwhat they do, see if anything interests

(23:14):
me around those different offices as well.
So, all in all, I mean, itwas a fantastic opportunity.
I'd recommend, obviously, everyone do it.
Um.
I guess, you know, and I don'tknow if we're going to go down the
road if you want to wait, but, uh.
You know, the big the big barriers.
You know, for the for the militaryside of it is that wherever you're

(23:35):
working at that place has to basicallyaccept that they're not going to
have somebody to fill your job.
So, if you're the easiest 1, I thinkalways, if you're like an emergency room
doctor, you can't be like, well, I want todo a coverage because, like, when I don't
have an emergency room doctor anymore,you know, for me, it was a little easier.
Like, I'm just I'mgetting ready to retire.
Kind of hanging on just barely.

(23:56):
So super easy for meto go off and do that.
But for some folks and little morehigh demanding jobs, they actually
can't do it because of that.
So that kind of stinks.
But I mean, that's

the command has to kind of like approve you doing the program.
It's not like you just,everybody qualifies to correct.

John Sokol (24:16):
Yeah.
Yes.
The command has to do it.
And there's actually a few more rules.
I wish I knew them better.
Should have taken a look forthis because now there's.
There's different rules now about like,if you are, I retired as a, uh, as a 05,
as a commander, it doesn't matter whatit, what it means is the higher, like
the ranks you are, the less time theyactually give you to do skill bridge.

(24:38):
So, instead of doing the 180days, I think now they'll let you
do 3 months of it or whatever.
I'm sorry.
Uh, maybe it is 3 months, whateverit is, it kind of condenses.
So then.
You know, you start running into all theseproblems too with your timing, right?
Because it's like, okay, well, myMarch, March 1st, I'm going to retire.
So you back that up 3 months.
Now that's, you know, uh, December 1st.

(25:00):
And then you start looking at peopleand how they do quarterly, kind of a
lot of the big companies do cohorts.
So they're doing like every quarter, every6 months or however they're doing it.
And it's like, well, I literally,you know, if you, if you don't have
somebody who has flexibility, thenit's like, well, you just can't do it.
There's just no way around it.
You know, there's no way,there's no way to get into it.
So, um, that kind of stinks,but, uh, you know, I mean, I

(25:22):
get it from company standpointsand the Navy standpoint too, so.
That, uh, I wish that was a little betterfor the whole process, but yeah, um,
yeah, I mean, that's
kind of it, I guess.
I

personally went out and scouted the, the, the site,
the database myself, uh, justto kind of get a feel for it.
If I was a user, um, there's,there's definitely a lot of room for
improvement from user experience, right?
It seems like it's, uh, it's basicenough to where, you know, you can sort
and filter, you know, based on someof the criteria you mentioned, Cam.

(25:59):
But if you wanted to really go deep intoit and maybe it get a little bit more
granular based on, you know, ideally,you know, looking into, um, uh, I
don't know, a little micro verticalsor something, get a little bit more
specific into some of the types of roles.
Um, I, I didn't find thatmuch of the, of the filters.
Um, You know, it's, it's one of thosethings where, I don't know, I, you

(26:24):
know, I, I see a lot of government sitesthat probably could use quite a bit
of polish, uh, to, to, to build up theUX, but at the same token, like it's
obviously the program is, is, you know,the foundational piece now it's time
to, you know, how do we build on it?
Like some of the things youmentioned, like, how do we build more
awareness for, you know, to how tonavigate, you know, the program or.

(26:48):
Uh, you know, maybe here's a shortlist of, you know, you know, knowing
what you've done for us, maybe here'sa short list of some of the top areas
that that could translate well for you.
Um, I kind of alluded to itpreviously, but the, the, the former
founder, Steve Chang was his name.
Headlamp was the name of the company.
It was kind of like skillbridge as a service.

(27:08):
Um, and then they baked in like an AIkind of matchmaking technology based
on, you know, you shortlist, you know,kind of the skills that you're familiar
with or that you're well versed in, andit's almost like brings top of funnel.
The opportunities that could be bestsuited for you to kind of cut out
maybe some of the noise because there'sgoing to be a lot of a lot of companies

(27:30):
and roles that really just aren'trelevant at all, or, you know, would
never be in your short list, but theystill are going to be there and you're
going to have to just sift through it.
Um, so yeah,

Mike Gruen (27:40):
I, yeah, I was just thinking like the opposite is also like, so as
someone I worked at a company, we hada lot, it was, um, founded by veterans.
I loved working there.
I know the benefit ofgetting veterans out.
And 1 of the challenges I'vehad is I'm not a veteran.
It's hard for me to, to do thatmapping of like, this is what
you were doing in the military.

(28:00):
And this is how it translates to like.
What you can do here.
And I'm curious, like, what, whatthe experience is like, like, for as
the, as someone who wants to tap intothis, like, what are the options?
And, you know, how do I get more involved?
Or is it maybe doing that 2nd order thing?
Like, I like the idea of like, Hey, thesepeople, you know, You know, we have a

(28:22):
whole program and we had people internat our company and, you know, we've,
and now we can help them find a job, notnecessarily with us, but beyond our doors.
And I'm just curious, sort oflike, how would I, if I wanted to
get involved in this, like, whatwould be your recommendations?
And I'm curious from both perspectives.
Cam, if you want to start,

yeah, yeah, I'll jump in.
So, uh, first and foremost, I would sayit's like understanding, like, what,
so even like John just said, right?
Like, oh, no 5, but itdoesn't matter, right?
It's like understandingwhat it takes to get there.
What the, what the, you know,credentialing the criteria is, and because
it just has a different nomenclature.
It's all done in the civilian world.

(29:05):
It's just got a different title, right?
It's a different, You know,wording, different verbiage,
however you want to describe it.
Um, but like, so, so I was a teamleader in, in ranger regiment, right?
So like when I look at my resume onpaper for the military, it's like,
Oh, that's cool, I was a triggerpuller and door kicker, right?
But then like, whatdoes that mean out here?
Right.
It's like, well, you know, uh, leadership.

(29:29):
I don't know, but it'shard to equate, right?
And so, so really, really likestarting to understand what those
soft skills and hard skills.
I don't like that terminology,but, but what those are and, and,
you know, for example, it's likesituational awareness, right?
I think that a lot of us have heightenedsituational awareness, gives us more
intuition, gives us the ability to bemore creative and understand different

(29:50):
dynamics and cross functional team.
But those are things that youdon't think about when you're
like kind of pigeonhole yourself.
Um, so actually having people like youmight like jump on and start to like.
Think through what we did to getthere is going to be more beneficial
than us trying to tell you or the D.
O.
D.
trying to tell you becausewe're kind of stuck in this

(30:10):
like mantra of what we've done.
Right?
And so getting the civilians to helpus understand what those skills are
because we share the same skills.
It's just we did it in themilitary for a little while.
Uh, you know, so, so honestly, like, Mhm.
You doing the research and diggingdeep down in there and trying to figure
out how they relate to what you dois, is probably one of the biggest,

(30:32):
most valuable, uh, ways to help.

Yeah, I, I was looking at some of the data points too.
Uh, cam on, you guys have a, a, you know,not to, not to, uh, continue to tout zero
eyes here, but I'd say it's from likea, a poster boy of like how it's done.
Well, you guys have a dedicatedskill bridge landing page, right?
And within that.

(30:58):
Yeah, I kind of pulled the quotefrom one of the co founders, right?
So immediately I go there.
I'm a transitioning service member.
I feel a level of connection there.
Uh, and I kind of understandwhy the program was stood up.
Um, and then beyond that, there's,there's data points immediately that kind
of show, um, that you rattled one off2022, uh, you know, veterans converted,

(31:22):
you know, into, into the program.
Um, And then one of the stat that jumpedoff the page to me was that 87 percent of
the interns converted to full time hires.
Right.
Because I think that'sthe other big piece here.
It's like, it's a great to getthe experience and it's great
to get the, the sampling of thisrole here or this role there.
But the reality is the reality isyou want to kind of get it right

(31:47):
the first time if you can, right.
And you want to find a good fit.
And so, um, There's a good case studyhere where, uh, you know, some of the
things that worked well with this 87percent conversion stat, you know, I'd
love to see how it, how it comparesto, you know, some other organizations
that are on, uh, on the program.

(32:08):
And, and, you know, why did this, why wasit so high for you all compared to maybe.
Something that's lower for, uh, steel,maybe, you know, maybe still didn't have
that conversion stat that you all had.
Um, was it because, you know, you guys areveteran owned and you have this ability to
relay a little bit better or what was it?
You know, I think those are thingsthat would be interesting to dissect

(32:30):
and try to figure out how to get thatconversion rate as high as it can be.

So I'm so glad you brought that up because one of the other, you
know, pieces of data that, that I thinkis very valuable to understand that, that
how we do it with skill bridges, we'relooking for future employees, not interns.
So, so we're, we're immediatelytrying to say who qualifies
to somebody that fits us.
Who, who comes in here and isgoing to add value to our team

(32:55):
and who can we add value to?
Um, and again, you know, we're lookingat this is that, hey, the internship
is you to get your feet wet and thenyou're going to come full time, right?
That's that's kind of the ideathat we have when we look at this.
I don't know that that's done acrossthe board and I don't want to talk about
any other organizations, but, you know,I think that is, is being the forefront

(33:16):
of how we do candidates is thinking.
Are they going to be?
Future employees is, is amazing.
And I think that's how

Mike Gruen (33:23):
internships should be.
And an internship should bean extended job interview.
It is a, Hey, we want totake this opportunity.
Like I've done internships with, invarious places for various reasons,
whether it's with schools or withmaybe, um, in areas that need help
or, you know, whatever it is, um,but it's an extended job interview.

(33:44):
It's a, we're going to take a chance.
We're going to put, we're, we're willingto take a little bit of risk here.
And we're offsetting, we're mitigatingthat risk by it's an internship.
Um, but the goal here is at the endof it, there's some defined things.
And like, if things gowell, it's a full time job.
And if things, maybe if it's not aperfect fit, like you got some skills
at it, we've got some, we got somethingout of it and we're more than happy

(34:07):
to help like you and your futureendeavors, and that's the way I look at
internships and, um, I hope that's theway most companies look at internships.
I'm sure that's not the case,but it would be my, my ideal.

Yeah.
And one more thing too, that, uh,just to kind of piggyback on something
John said earlier was like, it's justas valuable, if not more valuable
to learn what you don't want to do.
As much as it is what you do want to do.
And for me, it was very quicklylike, figure out what I don't want
to do fast, so I can get to what Ido want to do, and do it for longer.

(34:40):
Right?
And, uh, But the second retention ratepiece that I'll say about ZeroEyes that
I think is, is, You know, I'll tell usa little bit, but it's a vibe, right?
Like, like our mantra, our mottois, you know, save time, save lives.
You all feel it.
We feel it when we work there.
Um, you know, it's a heavything that we as a country feel.

(35:01):
Um, so, so we feel the purposethere and then kind of the vibe and
the culture of like, just get itdone and help the teammates, right?
Like that you feel itand you're used to it.
So I think that really helps us getkind of over that first bar of, uh,
You know, people who may want to leave.

Mike Gruen (35:18):
Yeah.
And John, I'm curious from yourperspective, like when you were looking,
were you able to see, I don't know what,what companies are in, you know, are on
scale bridge, but are you able to getsome sense of like, is there a lot of
companies that sort of have more of thatvibe that have that more mission driven,
like there's a definite, like, I lovedwhen I worked, um, at Red Owl where
there was a, it was military founded andwe had mission and we had that, like,

(35:41):
it was just like, and you can tell likefrom day one when I interviewed and.
Like, I don't know if you can.
As you're going through and trying to dothe transition, are you, uh, as you're
looking, are you able to see any of that?
Or is it like just big companyafter big company after big company?
You don't really know what the, whatthe cultural vibe is going to be like.

John Sokol (36:01):
Yeah, so when I, uh, when I first started looking,
just went to that website, starteddoing a bunch of just kind of.
You know, cold email on orwhatever you want to call it.
And, uh, tell you, you know, it's a lotof toes to make a print, so to speak.
So there's a lot of that on thereand it's not really well defined
on the site that says, you know,this is what we're looking for.

(36:22):
Is that or this?
It was more like, uh, it's a listingof the companies, then you contact
the company, then you kind of learnwhatever the positions are that
are available within the company.
And so, but as far as like avibe goes, I was the same thing.
So not the vibe, uh,steel is bad in any way.
I mean, it's a company and kind ofthe cams point earlier, you know, like

(36:44):
a lot of things are very similar andit's just, you know, military members
just don't understand it, right.
Cause it was like so many differenttimes people would come up to me
like, Oh my gosh, this must be so likeshocking for you that you're in here.
I'm like, well, I mean, it'san office building with pupils.
I've been to one before and.
You know, people are using acronyms,but it's all, it's the same.
You just have to learn the newacronyms, learn the new little, you

(37:07):
know, fancy things that people saywhen they're, you know, trying to end
conversations or whatever it is, you know?
So it's, I don't think the transitionfrom that standpoint is too bad,
but I was in the same boat too.
So the company I work at.
What I learned at Steele, I think,was that I did want a little more
of that, like, um, I wouldn't saymilitary kind of vibe, but what our

(37:29):
company does, they, they like to kindof tell it as like a ready room and a
ready room for if you're not familiar.
So, think of an aircraft carrier, thinkof when there's like a bunch of people
in flight suits and they're all kindof together and they're joking around.
You'll see it like in Top Gun, like, whenthey're all in a room and they're all
just kind of goofing around and stuff.
So, something like that.
Where it's a little, you know, it's formaland obviously there's a lot of risk and

(37:50):
everything else involved, but it's alsothat kind of camaraderie and stuff.
So once I did the steel thing,I was like, man, I actually
kind of do like that stuff.
No, it's funny because.
In my head, as I was about totransition out, I was like, man,
I don't want to do that anymore.
I just want a clean break fromeverything of like that nature.
I never want to, like, by theway, my call sign is face.
I was like, if no one ever callsme face again in my life, I was

(38:13):
like, that's totally fine with me.
And then all of a sudden I did thesteel thing and now I'm right back.
Everyone calls me face.
I like I'm back becauseI do this Navy stuff now.
So still use the call sign, but,uh, You know, and again, you, you
learn, I guess I do like that and Ido appreciate it and that's something
that I care about for my job.
So, you know, it all worked out.

(38:33):
I mean, sometimes you have to do

Mike Gruen (38:34):
something else to realize that like, and I mean, I had that
same, very similar experience.
I did a very short stintat a very large company.
Was there less than 90 days and waslike, yeah, this isn't what I said.
This isn't what I thought it would be.
I don't know why Ithought I'd be happy here.
All my friends are like, yeah, Ididn't think you'd be happy there.
And, uh, very quickly transitionedback into the world of startups.

I mean, just to kind of paint the picture of, of what the.
The site looks like, andI'll, and I'll rattle it off.
I'll put it in the show notes.
So folks are aware of skillbridge.
osd.
mil, M I L, but you know, as a,as a seeker, a job seeker, there's
industries that you can siftthrough the, the location, right?
So it's got, you know, all sortsof locations in here, delivery

(39:21):
methods, basically in person onlineor hybrid, the duration of training.
So zero to one 80 days, oneto six months, one to 30.
Services.
So, you know, you can, I guess, dialdown by air force, army, Coast Guard,
Marine Corps, Navy, um, and then a listof every company, which there's 5, 000,

(39:42):
just about 5, 000 of them in here, right?
So this isn't like going to LinkedInand give me the, you know, the
platter of filters where I can go andfind my company size and headcount
and revenue and stuff like that.
Right.
So it's, it's quite vanilla from a.
A user experience perspective,which is why I'd say go into
this with a grain of salt.

(40:03):
If you really want to kind of like takeit to the next level, what I would do
is pair it with a tool like LinkedIn.
And then between those two, youcan start to get a little bit more
granular of who the company is, right?
Cause really what you're doing isprospecting companies and trying to
figure out more about them, knowing thatthey're a part of the, of the program.
But, um, I think that's, that's probably,you know, something I would highlight

(40:25):
that could definitely use a revamp.
The other piece of this, which I think.
You touched on it, John, andyou did probably too as Cam is.
You know, the, the level of counselingthat's involved with the transition
for service members beyond just,you know, Hey, here's skill bridge.
It's available to you.
Here's the site here,fill this one pager out.

(40:47):
Um, you know, is there room forimprovement in that part where
it's more of like, almost like oneon one counseling, the same way I
would expect a student graduatingfrom a university, which I've also
heard quite poor things about, youknow, in terms of really, truly.
Being involved as a, as a transition,as a bridge to a career, um, is, are

(41:09):
those areas that you would see as,as areas for improvement or, uh, I,
I don't know what the current layof the land is, but just curious.

John Sokol (41:17):
Yeah.
I mean, from my perspective,yeah, they definitely, you know,
could do a better job of that.
The funny thing I alwaysthink though, is that.
You know, the military, they havea ton of great programs and there's
a ton of these things out thereand there's counseling services and
there's all these different thingsand they're all available to everyone.
It's just funny that younever hear about them.
And so, you know, to me, especially, youknow, kind of looking back and thinking

(41:42):
like, boy, wouldn't it be nice if youkind of use that to get people to join
the military is like, we can also help youwhen you transition out of the military.
It could be one of those sellingpoints to actually get more, you know,
during especially times, I guess, whenrecruiting is getting a little soft.
That, you know, that we canhelp you on the back end too.
And they never do that.
They never mentioned it.
It's like this, you know, then you learnthat there's all these organizations.

(42:03):
And plus, I guess, uh, you know,there is organizations like there's
one called hiring our heroes, orI believe it's hiring our heroes.
I believe is the name of it.
And it's a, um, it basically kind of.
Is 1, it helps you to filter out, figureout what you want to do, get your resume
together, all that kind of stuff, thentake it down to, uh, you know, maybe
get you some job opportunities with.

(42:24):
Uh, scale bridge, or just I think they cando just regular, you know, get you a job.
So, those places exist again, it'sjust it's hard to find them and it's.
It's really kind of word ofmouth kind of stuff, which thinks
that, you know, there's not aformalized process or something.

Mike Gruen (42:40):
I chuckled a little bit because, uh, when I, before the episode,
I was doing a search and, uh, Hire OurHeroes has better SEO than, uh, the
DoD, because, uh, they come up first.
Uh, when, if you, if you searchfor, uh, SkillBridge, somebody's
doing something right over there.

Yeah, we did.
We did an episode.
Go ahead, Cam.

So I was just gonna say, like, John hit
the nail on the head, right?
There's a ton of stuff that themilitary does do that's out there,
but you don't hear about it.
And then when you go look for it, like,at least when I got out, it was kind
of hard to figure out what to do next.
You can be like, oh,cool, this is available.
But what do I do?
And, uh, and, and that got really hard.
So they're giving that like, and thenpairing with like a LinkedIn and skill

(43:24):
bridge is a hundred percent the way to go.
So what skill bridge didn'texist when I got out.
And so I'm like, my wife mademe a LinkedIn with my DD two 14.
I was like, all right, good luck, Tim.
And like, I was going back to school.
So the first thing I did was like, startreaching out to people that I, that had
careers that were similar to mine inindustries that I thought were appealing.
And I would just like hit them up onLinkedIn and be like, Hey, can we get

(43:47):
coffee or do you have 20 minutes to chat?
And that helped me start to like, kindof maneuver a little bit through all
the stuff that was coming and, uh,and start to kind of hone in on some
certain areas with, with, with that.
But I would probably.
Interview this, uh, the job placerrather than, you know, be waiting to

(44:10):
be interviewed as a seeker looking.
What I know now is I would get on skill,brave, say, Oh, this company looks cool.
And then I'd hit them up and be like, Hey,tell me about it before applying to them.
Right.
We are military is, is such a a,a big group of, of, uh, that's
currently coming out right now too.

(44:30):
And the talent that I have in this digitaltransformation era is, is tremendous.
Um, you know, it's just different.
And so being able to, to understandthat it's just navigating different
waters, but it's the same thing.
It's there.
You, you hold, hold yourdestiny in your hand, man.
You reach out to those companiesand you're going to get picked up.

Yeah, it's, it's a, uh, I think what's exciting
to me is that there's a ton ofopportunity to expand on the program.
Um, you know, on, on, on our communityplatform here on the, on the podcast
as well, you know, we do a lot ofepisodes around, you know, this,
this transformation of commercialtechnology, you know, married to,

(45:17):
you know, government tech, right.
And, and, uh, a bigger push for that, howit's, how it's being done, how it's trying
to be expedited, um, where, you know, inyears past, maybe it was always looked
at as, you know, any sort of opportunity.
That's government related is archaic.
And I don't want a part of that.

(45:37):
I think that's changed that thatnarrative is changing as well
as the ability to, to break in.
So that kind of bleeds into thisconversation of, uh, you know, skill
bridge with, you know, there's so manyskill sets that, um, have this ability to
translate over, you know, Uh, I would saymaybe even more so in the last 10 years

(45:58):
than they have, uh, ever before, justgiven the fact that industry is changing
and technology is, is transforming,uh, all these other areas, right?
So, so some of these skill sets,when we say, uh, work for a mission
driven company, right, that's.
That's something that, you know, meanssomething very specific to a, uh, a
military service member versus maybe justworking for a company that's got this

(46:21):
vision, um, and I think that's what kindof stuck with me on that quote from the,
from the co founder at Zero Eyes is that,you know, that's one of the things that
these, you know, uh, service members bringto the table is like this mission focus
and, you know, How well that translatesto, you know, organizations that are,
that are building technologies thatare, you know, mission focused as well.

(46:43):
Um, just a random note too.
I was podcast this morning that was.
Almost dialing in on a little bit ofthis theme of what we're talking about.
Uh, but it was more focused onuniversities and universities
are similarly, uh, kind ofhaving to revisit their model.
Uh, because the reality is, um, Ithink the, the percentage of students

(47:08):
that actually pursue a career.
And the degree that theypursue is, is, is quite low.
Um, and so you spend all thistime in an educational program,
you spend all this money towardssomething that you don't even really
pursue, you do something different.
So, uh, I think they, they called outNortheastern university as one of these
Uh, universities that provide more of thisco op slash experiential learning program

(47:32):
throughout the course of universitywhere you're, yeah, you're, you're
attending, um, you know, your courses,but they're also baking in actual,
you know, real life world experienceswhere you're in a corporate setting.
I think there's a lot of room for that,not just in, you know, universities,
but you know, how that could alsobe translated to folks that are, you
know, in the military or active duty.

(47:54):
But maybe wanting to also stepfoot, you know, one day every month
or so into a, a corporate settingto kind of get a feel for that.
So it's maybe not as much of a cultureshock as it might be, you know,
at the end of your, your service,um, you know, just jumping in.
But, um, all that said, I guess that's,we kind of put a bow on it at that point,

(48:16):
unless there's anything else that youwant, you guys wanted to add before
we close out with our final segment.
I'm

good.

Yeah.
Cool.
All right.
Well, let's transition.
Then, um, we're going to, we're goingto jump into this, uh, last segment
called the five second scramble.
Uh, Mike and I are going to askeach of you a series of questions.
Give us a, try to give us your responsewithin five seconds, a little bit of
rapid fire Q and a some business, somefun, uh, Mike, why don't you lead us
off with John and then I'll get to cam.

Mike Gruen (48:49):
Sounds good.
And cam don't bother taking toomany notes because they're going
to be a different set of questions.
There'll be some overlap,but not too much.
Anyway, um, so yeah, soJohn, uh, here we go.
Uh, explain to circle to melike I was a five year old,

John Sokol (49:05):
uh, two circle.
It's the bylines, basically tactical,technical, what we do think of somebody
who operates a piece of equipment inour case, an airplane, we are, our goal.
And our job is basically to make thatperson the best person they can be.
And that could be through training.
That could be through software.

(49:25):
That could be through.
Uh, you know, updated equipment, anythinglike that, and we will talk with, you
know, the folks that can acquire that,you know, either training equipment.
Software, whatever it is, and get itinto the hands of the actual operators.
So that's what we do.
And, uh, think of it just, uh, it's.
I almost think it's easierto use this kind of analogy.

(49:47):
There's two ways you can basically kindof train to use an airplane, right?
I can either train to fix an airplaneor train to operate an airplane.
We don't do much on thetraining to fix airplanes.
We do more of the operating the airplanes.
So that's our focus is on that sideand making them the most kind of
lethal they can be in an airplane.

Mike Gruen (50:06):
Uh, what's your favorite company value?

John Sokol (50:11):
Ours

Mike Gruen (50:12):
for two circles.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.

John Sokol (50:15):
Uh, integrity.

Mike Gruen (50:18):
It's a good one.
Uh, it came up actually recently ona different context, uh, where that
it's like the number one qualityyou look for in a new hire, like
during interviews is integrity.
And yet nobody reallyasked that specifically.
So it's a, it's a great one.
Um, it's hard to sort of getat during an interview process.
Um, but it's something thatmost hiring managers are looking
for in the back of their head.

(50:39):
Um, so what type of, um, nowthat you nailed it, um, just
give me some breathing room too.
Um, what's the, what's the best pieceof advice you've ever been given?
That's going to takemore than five seconds.

John Sokol (50:54):
Uh,
best piece of

Mike Gruen (50:58):
advice,

John Sokol (50:59):
honestly, uh, enjoy what you do, as long as
you're enjoying what you do.
And I think for me, enjoying whatI do doesn't necessarily have to
correspond to the exact like projectwhere I'm working on, but if you're
around good people, you're You know,enjoying spending time with them.
You're doing something together.
Everyone's kind of positive to me.

(51:20):
That's, you know, that'senjoying what I do.

Mike Gruen (51:24):
Awesome.
Uh, what type of personthrives at two circle?

John Sokol (51:29):
Well, mostly I retired naval aviators.
That's probably your big one.
So that's going to be tricky.
That's a barrier to entry.
That's a, uh, honestly what it is,uh, it's their big thing is being a,
they call it a Spartan, but it's, uh,we're all kind of self sufficient with
most, almost everyone works remote.
So their big thing is.
You know, they hire a lot of more seniorpeople and with more senior people becomes

(51:53):
kind of the idea, especially when you'rein the military, that people are going
to kind of do a lot of stuff for you.
Like, hey, I need to gofly to California for work.
And there's a person who does thatfor me, and it's like, now, no, there
isn't a person who does that for you.
So, I know they're, they're always realconcern when they get, uh, you know,
when there's interviews and stuff likethat of like, hey, are you going to be
able to, you know, kind of thrive onyour own without like a support staff.

(52:14):
So, that, uh, kind of just.
Mindset of getting stuff doneyourself is pretty important to,

Mike Gruen (52:23):
um, in one word or two, what's the biggest challenge
your company's facing right now?

John Sokol (52:30):
Expansion, uh, purposeful expansion, I guess would probably be
even more to the point in that, uh,and this kind of goes back to the
ready room, uh, kind of mentalitythat what they have where, and again,
maybe to put another piece of thatready room thing is in a ready room.
It's pretty loose.
Everyone kind of jokes around.
It's a beauty.

(52:50):
Of kind of thick skin, like a lot ofmilitary kind of organizations, right?
There's a lot of just, you know, there'sjust a lot of stuff going on as far
as, you know, people calling you out,you know, hey, you did good here.
You didn't do good there.
You just have to you developa thick skin for that.
So, um, kind of havingthat culture, right?
But then once you start expandingmore and more and you keep that

(53:13):
culture the same, and that's beenit's truly is a struggle and it's.
Yeah.
You know, and they go back andforth and people go back and
forth because you talk about it.
It's like, okay, well, if you expand atsome point, our biggest problem, right?
In a company, when I jokingly say,you know, you hire people to basically
serve 20 years as naval aviators.
We, that pool of humanbeings is just small.

(53:34):
There's just not a lotof talent out there.
Once you kind of go past thosewalls of that's our talent pool.
Now you're bringing in other people.
They don't maybe know that culture andthen how do you kind of maintain it?
So that's, uh, yeah,that's what I would say.
The biggest obstacle.

Mike Gruen (53:48):
Uh, I appreciate, um, what was your dream job as a kid?

John Sokol (53:58):
Uh, first dream job would be garbageman.
So that, uh, you know, it'spretty, uh, pretty easy.
I, uh, you know, just watch themand actually, uh, no biggie here.
Don't like to toot my own horn, butaround, uh, it's probably like four
or five actually got to pull the leverdown that smashes the back of the.
You know, that's pretty cool.
Into the actual thing.

(54:19):
Yeah, it was pretty cool.
And so that's cool.
I took my kids to a truck

Mike Gruen (54:23):
touch where they got to do that.
It was awesome.
I really loved it.
Um, uh, what's the largest land animal youthink you could take in a street fight?
No weapons, just youand their land animal.
Being a land animal,

okay.

Mike Gruen (54:38):
Yeah, because people would say whale and that doesn't count.
Like, I'm talking like somethingthat you could, you know,
that would fight on, on land.
I

John Sokol (54:45):
mean, I guess, uh, like I'd have to, uh, call that
for, are they saying they couldtake a whale, like, in a fight?
Well, if it's on land,it'll just die, right?
I mean No, you're saying, no, Ijust have to wait on the whale.
I got it, I have to wait the whale out.
Got it.
I guess that goes vice versa,if you take a, you know, lion
in the water or something.
Uh, I don't think I've takena I mean, I'm, I don't think I

(55:08):
can go any bigger than a dog.
Right.
And probably a domesticated dog at that.
Like, not like a lot.

Mike Gruen (55:15):
Sounds good.
Um, what's something you hateto do, but are really good at,

John Sokol (55:24):
uh, I'm trying to think of stuff around my house
that my wife's always making me do.
Um, sure.
There's a lot of those.
I'll tell you what painting.
I hate painting, but

Mike Gruen (55:36):
I'm good at, uh, what's a charity or corporate philanthropy
that's near and dear to you.

John Sokol (55:43):
Uh, there's a thing called Fisher house.
So with just think of, you know, aroundMcDonald houses for hospitals where
families can stay there, you know, theirchild or whatever's in the hospital.
So, Fisher house basically does thesame thing, but for VA hospitals.
So, um, it's just anincredible organization.
So.
They haven't, they haven't near a lot of,like, the bigger VA hospitals and it's.

(56:06):
Uh, my wife, her father,he was a Vietnam vet.
A bunch of stuff, but, uh, he wasin the hospital for quite a while.
And my wife and my mother in lawand my daughter, actually, when she
was born, stayed there off and on.
It was in like I said, I'm in Norfolk.
That was Richmond, which is about anhour and a half or so drive from here.

(56:26):
And they would stay there and it's.
Just phenomenal.
I mean, the place itself,actually, it's a really nice house.
They, uh, you know, they provideeverything almost for you.
There's other folks there kindof support staff kind of thing.
It's, it's incredible.
Uh, and as a charity, it's like one ofthose ones with super low admin fees
and all that kind of stuff, you know,they don't take anything off tops,
tons of donations, stuff like that.

(56:47):
So just a really, reallygreat organization.

Mike Gruen (56:51):
Right.
Um, and last one, uh, what's amovie you can rewatch again and
again, and never get sick of?

John Sokol (56:59):
I mean, there's a bunch, I'm trying to think of the last one.
I try to convince my daughter's,uh, 13, she'll be 14 next month.
So I've been trying to get her to watcha lot of good movies and by good movies,
you know, movies that I like, obviously.
Uh, I can watch, I can watchyou land her over and over.
And, uh, I can also tell youthat she's quasi hates it.

(57:22):
I wouldn't say she totally hated it,but, uh, she pretty much hates it.
And.
You know, that's one of those ways.
And then that's the mostdisappointing thing, right?
Like you sit there with your daughterand like, I look over and I have a
huge smile on my face and she's justlike flipping through her cell phone.
I'm like, Oh, well, this is like, you'vedashed all my hopes for, you know, for
you to have an awesome sense of humor.
So, yeah,

Mike Gruen (57:45):
awesome.
Well,

well done.
Thank you.
Awesome.
Yeah.
Love Zoolander.
Uh, Cam, you ready?
All right.
Uh, describe zero eyes to meas if I were a five year old.

A weapons detection company that plans to save lives by
saving time for first responders.

How would you describe the culture at Zero Eyes?
D.
V.
I.
What kind of technologistthrives at Zero Eyes?

Curious, um, constantly curious, uh, go getter.
You got to be able to go after, uh,things and, and take initiative,
do it and, and stay curious.
If you think you've got to figureit out, you're, you're way behind.

What kind of tech roles are you all hiring for?

Uh, engineering, product, project management,
install team across the board.

I put it in your investor hat on, uh, what's one of the most
valuable pieces of advice that youwould give to a founder that's looking
to start a business in 2024, 2025.

Always go into the room thinking about what you don't know,
instead of thinking about what you do.
What's your favorite app on your phone?
Oh, uh, currently it's the Tridot app.
It's a workout program.
Cause I'm doing an Ironman in October,but other than that, I would say

(59:19):
either the Libby app, uh, which isthe library, uh, app that you can
put audio books on or podcasts.

What's a charity or corporate philanthropy that's near and dear to you?
Uh,

Bean

Can,

uh, for bladder cancer.
Um, my wife is a, is a multipletime bladder cancer survivor.
So, uh, Bean Can.

Cool.
And we'll put both of thosein, uh, in the show notes to
raise some additional awareness.
Um, If you could have dinnerwith any celebrity, past or
present, who would it be with?

Ooh, Larry David.

Big Seinfeld guy?

Cameron Watts (01:00:02):
Yes, I am an anchor.

Tim Winkler (01:00:04):
Yeah.
And curve.
What is the worst fashion trendthat you've ever followed?
Socks with slides,
. That's, that's social suicide, man.

Yeah.

Um, I,

I, I work remote, so I get away with it a lot more
than I, I I still do it frequently.
Right.
It, it's, are you, are you

a crock guy or are you just through slides like, uh, Adidas sliders.

Um, I, I have tried to go away with the slides,
but it's just so convenient.
And, uh, you know,

um,
last, last one.
What is one thing that's on your bucketlist that you haven't checked off yet?

Uh, so I want to do the U S open the Ryder cup and, uh, the open,
but I have done the masters and the PGA.
Um, so I want, I want toround out in the player.
So I want to round out the four majorsplus the writer and, uh, I want to do them
all at, at, at, uh, historic courses too.
So that's awesome.

(01:01:10):
Well, a little

humble brag there with the masters.
I know that's likeeverybody's bucket list.
That's a golf band.
So

Yeah, it is something that everybody needs to do too.
It is so different than MTV.

Awesome.
All right.
Well, that's a wrap.
I wanted to thank you guys for a greatdiscussion, uh, and your insights.
Uh, I think that's just all supervaluable to the next wave of
service members that are going to betransitioning into, into civilian world.
Um, to our listeners.
Thanks for tuning in.
Uh, I hope today's episode inspires you tothink more about how you might be able to

(01:01:46):
hire a service member for your business.
Uh, and, uh, thank you bothfor joining us on the pod.

Absolutely.
Pleasure to be here.

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Mission Transition: SkillBridge's Role in Civilian Careers | The Pair Program Ep51

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Mission Transition: SkillBridge's Role in Civilian Careers | The Pair Program Ep51