January 22, 2025 • 31 mins
What if marketing could be as surprising and impactful as guerrilla warfare?
In this episode of The Reality of Business, Bob – an enthusiast of military history – and Jeremy share insights into the art of ambushes and raids, translating these military principles into creative marketing campaigns that surprise and engage audiences in unexpected ways.
They revisit the revolutionary ideas of J. Conrad Levinson, the visionary of guerrilla marketing in the 1980s, whose concepts revolutionised the advertising industry. Think of iconic campaigns like the Marlborough Man for Marlboro cigarettes and Tony the Tiger for Kellogg’s Frosties – they’re proof of how unconventional tactics can leave a lasting impact.
Fast forward to today, where bold ideas drive the digital landscape. Remember the BBC's Dracula campaign or 3M’s security glass challenge? These viral campaigns didn’t just grab attention; they showcased the immense potential of guerrilla marketing. In this episode, we’ll also explore lessons from The Drum (publisher for the marketing and media industries), the role of soundtracks in branding, and the Fearless Girl/Wall Street Bull stunt in New York that sparked powerful conversations about gender diversity.
Whether you're a seasoned marketer or simply fascinated by unconventional strategies, this episode is packed with insights to inspire your next unforgettable campaign.
For more info, free resources, useful content & our blog posts, please visit realitytraining.com.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
bob, um, thanks for coming in.
I thought it was important that, uh, we met before the parents
evening okay I mean that.
That's, that's why I've askedyou in, because, as you know,
tomorrow is well your lowersixth parents evening, and we
are in the final two years ofyou here at school.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Yeah, now your EPQ tutor has sent me your essay on
guerrilla marketing.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
Oh, yes, I worked really hard on that Right.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
You're doing business studies A-level as well.
I understand.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
But your EPQ, you very specifically chose
guerrilla marketing yes, that'sright.
Yes, it's fascinating well,what do you think?
Speaker 3 (00:52):
it is well, if you look at what happens in the
congo, the silverback guerrillasthey have one, one major
guerrilla who leads the pack,and what they do is they're in
charge of everything and theyfight the other guerrillas from
the other packs as well.
And the silverbacks, if they'rereally big, they can really
(01:15):
hammer the other guerrillas, andthat means they have more
territory.
You see, so what I've done isI've used that illusion of
conquering territory, whichmeans power, and I've used that
illusion to bring it to life inmy marketing essay.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
Now, you didn't get a high mark on your English GCSE.
I need to just get a penG-U-E-R-I-L-L-A Gorilla not
Gorilla.
Is that the Spanish spelling ofgorilla?
Very good, you did Spanish GSEand, as you know, it means war,
(01:52):
little war in a sense Guerra iswar, so but you've completely
misunderstood what gorillamarketing is, so I suggest
tomorrow that when your parentscome, we don't mention this part
of your studies in any wayshape whatsoever.
Okay, right, I'll see you onMonday.
(02:15):
Welcome, ladies and gentlemen.
(02:48):
You are listening to a newepisode of the Reality of
Business, and today we aretalking about guerrilla
marketing.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
Yes, and I think a lot of people will make mistakes
similar to that of the 18-yearyear old there, jeremy, don't
you when it comes to well, Ithink people think the spelling
is guerrilla.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
Now we have we're lucky, ladies and gentlemen, to
have a military historian here.
So, bob, can you explain theconcept of guerrilla warfare?
Speaker 3 (03:19):
I can.
So a very good example ofguerrilla warfare would be
something like the Vietnam War,which is actually something I'm
listening to a series ofpodcasts about at the moment.
So the Vietnam War you hadNorth Vietnam versus South
Vietnam, supported by theAmericans, and that was in the
(03:41):
South, and those conflictsinvolved territory and battles
for land, but underneath it allyou had guerrilla warfare, which
was a very famous offensive.
They actually managed throughguerrilla warfare to attack the
(04:09):
American embassy in Saigoncompletely by surprise.
That's what the Tet Offensivewas.
They couldn't have done thatwith standard, traditional
land-based warfare.
It had to be a guerrilla attack.
So there we are.
That's what it is.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
And I love the fact you know about the Spanish route
route, I mean interesting.
Sun tzu even talked about it,but didn't call it guerrilla,
but he talked about guerrillastyle tactics in the art of war.
And your favorite roman generalbob quintus, fabius maximus
veroccusus, who actually hadveruccas named after him.
He, um, he did so so muchmarching around, he talked about
(04:44):
it too, but it is, is it's sortof ambush?
All those you know, sabotage,raid, yes, it's all of those
tactics.
So now we broaden into today'sepisode and we're talking about
guerrilla marketing.
You know, if we put the twothings, things together, we're
trying to astonish our audience,surprise them, shock them.
(05:07):
It's not a typical planned outstrategy, it's an ambush.
It's it's barely legal, but itis legal.
But I might be using, as we'llget into it, a sort of area or
space, or I might be ambushingan event.
I might be doing something thatseems, should they be here?
Speaker 3 (05:27):
that's kind of yeah, actually, and actually thinking
about it now, I can remember acouple of clear examples where
I've seen it in my lifetime thatI've never forgotten so I think
if people get it right then youcan see how the tactic
absolutely works.
But I'm wondering whether youwill have them in your research.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
Well, we'll come to that.
So, just as you've given us thesort of history warfare analogy
, it's bordering on beingillegal, but in most cases
perfectly legal.
It is a way of getting intopeople's minds, but not through
conventional channels.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
Although there is a blurred line.
Now we're in the digital agewhich we've come to.
Speaker 3 (06:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
It's also not and this is a horrendous joke that
I've come up with or Hernandez,it's not also guerrilla
marketing?
The Cadbury's advert with theguerrilla playing the drums to
In the Air Tonight by PhilCollins?
That is famous gorillamarketing, but not that.
So the term gorilla marketingis coined by J Conrad Levinson,
(06:32):
1933 to 2013.
So, a business writer, heworked with lots of agencies and
he wrote this book in I thinkit was 1984, 1984, 1985.
I can check that he died aged80 in 2013.
So he's an ex-psychologystudent at the University of
(06:57):
Colorado.
He then goes and becomesworking in ad agencies with Leo
Burnett.
He worked in London and he wascreative director.
He also joined JWT J WalterThompson where, if you might
remember, my mother worked as aPA.
In the 1960s he became seniorvice president of JWT.
Some of his big things were theMarlborough man.
So he's very famous.
(07:17):
He was right behind theMarlborough man.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
Huge campaign, pillsbury Doughboy, which is
very famous in the US, the SearsDie Hard Battery, which was
copied by Duracell Tony theTiger for Frosties.
I mean, how did that impactyour childhood?
Well, you're one of the onlypeople I know who put sugar on
top of Frosties.
Oh, you have to If you'rehaving Frosties you have to have
(07:44):
sugar on top I mean that thatwas cornflakes with sugar for
the children, that couldn'tstomach the cornflakes.
But but bob morrell, there heis.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
No, no, no, no putting on his sugar but surely,
when you had standardcornflakes just as an aside and
I think it is essential forlisteners to understand this
when you had cornflakes when youwere younger, you sprinkled
some sugar on top of thecornflakes, didn't you?
You didn't just have them withmilk.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
I did to start, but then I I didn't beyond that.
I did to start.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
Yeah, I was able to have them without, I don't know
how you, I like alpen withoutsugar as well.
I think all cereals don't needany added sugar well, I think
that frosties are at their bestwhen you've got a nice film of
white sugar on top.
That's when it brings all thesweetness out of them.
They're great.
They are great.
And also and I think that ifyou think about crunchy nut
(08:35):
cornflakes now, which is thenatural extension of Frosties
these days, which makes themsound slightly healthier, but
it's essentially brown sugar andnuts you can do the same with
them.
I don't so much put sugar onthem these days, but in those
days that was absolutely thething to do.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
Well, tony the Tiger was working his magic.
That's part of J ConradLevinson's work.
But then he gets into teachingand he goes and teaches at the
University of California and hedevelops this term.
He writes a bestselling book.
It is 1984.
He's done okay.
He sold 20 million copies ofGuerrilla Marketing.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
So that helped pay for his retirement.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
So he did fine.
So he's where it all comes from, but of course, as we've
already said, it's not new.
Now, what's interesting?
Now?
Let's talk about the types now,and you'll love all this
marketing bull ambient is thatjust a term for marketing or
time for no one?
gorilla marketing correct, yeah,yeah well, well, you've got
ambient marketing which is sortof yeah out there, it's not, um,
(09:38):
it's not necessarily traceableto a media channel.
Okay, ambush, ambush marketing.
And the most common type ofguerrilla marketing with
ambushes in the last 10 yearsare flash mobs so you're in a.
You're in a train station, loadof people come and they start
singing something, and they'resinging about milk or something
who knows what, and you're goingall right, stealth marketing
(10:01):
creeping up on you and suddenlysurprised.
But this is the reallyinteresting one astroturfing.
Now, astroturfing is clearlyfake grass.
So you're creating a productand creating a spin and a hype
around it, but it's completelyfabricated.
There is no hype.
You are pretending there's ahype, so you could have a load
(10:22):
of people rushing to a store,creating a fake queue to buy a
product that's launched in thatstore that day.
That's fake crowd hype.
So you could have a load ofpeople queuing outside a cinema.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
What's this like?
Speaker 1 (10:39):
We all want to see this film that's just released.
So that will then get writtenabout astroturfing.
So you're creating completelymanufactured hype.
Speaker 3 (10:47):
You could have, you know, rent a crowd almost so
when I used to work on amagazine years ago called the
industry standard, it was aconsumer magazine and the week
that it launched they paidpeople to sit on tube trains
around London reading themagazine.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
That's astroturfing.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
Yeah, so you'd walk onto the train and there'd be 20
people all reading the samemagazine and you'd go, wow, that
must be good.
That's a great idea, isn't it?
And then you'd go and buy it.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
So as you see manufactured hype.
It's not true.
Now the other bit that getsslightly interesting is street,
what they call street, but thatdoes include outdoor, out of
home, and what's interesting nowis there's more effort put into
outdoor advertising in the hopethat it will be photographed
and shared so it could even bepackaging.
(11:46):
So one of the examples I'll givestraight away which probably
might resonate with you and thiswas pointed out to me by Fraser
, who runs Motus, a creativeagency in Milton Keynes Oatly
are particularly good at this,so that's oat milk.
They use every section of theirpackaging to tell you about
their carbon footprint.
They say you don't need to readthis, it's boring.
Don't need to read this, it'sboring.
(12:06):
They'll do an outdoor ad ofbarista oat milk coffee saying
this isn't online.
We hope a barista sees this ashe walks past it.
That's very good, or she?
Speaker 3 (12:17):
That's nice picking out the person.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
We'd love a barista to see this ad so that they want
to use our milk to make theircoffee.
And of course you might thenphotograph that.
They did one in a series ofposters on walls saying don.
And of course you might thenphotograph that.
They did one in a series ofposters on walls saying don't
worry, walk past.
A poster has no emotions.
It won't be offended if youdon't read it.
So they do things like that.
They're quite good atgenerating hype.
(12:40):
They're also trying to hold thedairy industry to account on
their packaging saying here iswhat we use waters, tons carbon
footprint to produce our oatmilk.
Why don't you share that dairyindustry?
That's interesting.
Yeah, they're going for the cow.
They are going for thenon-green effect of drinking
dairy milk.
Speaker 3 (12:59):
Just to come back on the idea that people will share
the image.
That reminds me years ago.
I think our second most popularyoutube video we ever did was a
thing we talked about timessquare and the power of
advertising and how you knowmillions of people probably per
(13:19):
day roll up in times square,because if you go to new york,
yeah, you're going to go totimes square and there's nothing
else to do but take photos ofthe ads.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
Of the ads.
Speaker 3 (13:28):
yeah, yeah, so there are these huge digital screens
with these movable ads.
You take pictures of them, takethem home and say to your
friends look, I was in TimesSquare and so again, you're
passing on, you're sharing thatad and if it's clever enough and
I've seen some amazing ones inplaces like Tokyo, where you
have images stepping out ofscreens now and being amazing
(13:50):
then you are going to share thatwith people who you meet.
So I think that's good.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
Well, the world's most expensive ad slot is in the
Super Bowl halftime in theUnited States.
The Super Bowl, you know thefinal American football match of
the year.
Speaker 3 (14:10):
So that's either side of the musical act then,
because there's always a12-minute music act that paid
millions to do that.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
They've had Jay-Z, they've had the.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
Weeknd, all sorts yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
But when you go in the halftime slot of the ad,
that's the most expensive slotin the world.
But then people say who was thehalftime slot?
So then you talk about the ad,yeah you could argue that that's
getting a form of viral sharing, but slightly different to
gorilla.
So let's, let's go to whatyou've just said about outdoor
(14:44):
advertising and how that gorillaeffect.
So a few few years ago, you andI we both at the same time
picked up on this and we watchedthe BBC Mark Gatiss, dracula
yes, indeed.
Yeah very good With interestingactor playing Dracula called
Clem or something, was he aDanish actor played.
Speaker 3 (15:03):
Dracula.
He is now amazing in the firstseason of Bad Sisters on apple
tv.
That is a superb, verybrilliant drama set in ireland
and he is amazing as the baddie.
In that he's a brilliant actor.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
I'm sorry to him.
I've forgotten his name forthis, but it's a name like clem
or chem or something, but heplayed count dracula.
Now they unveiled an ad andI've got all the stats here.
I'm going to get you to try andguess them.
So, on the 30th of december2019, they installed two outdoor
posters, one in birmingham, onein london with daggers as the
(15:40):
sun came down and moved across.
It created the shadow ofdracula's face okay so so you've
got the ad and in in the dayyou just go as loaded daggers
sticking.
They can't see anything as thesun.
They angled the poster, theoutdoor ad.
It was cleverly worked out sothat it would then produce the
werewolfy face of dracula.
(16:01):
Okay, now, how many articleswere written about that ad?
Speaker 3 (16:08):
like proper articles oh loads, I would imagine 40
full-length articles okaycontent pieces shared online.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
People then took videos.
There was a video taken of it.
How many people watched thatvideo?
It's only uk.
Speaker 3 (16:23):
It's only dracula yeah, but it's still quite a lot
yeah because you probably watchit more than once.
Well, how many?
People watched it, I don't know.
Half a million, seven millionokay so that's serious serious,
serious, yeah.
So that's the same principle asapple product launches that
(16:45):
steve jobs used to do.
Yeah, you're gonna share itsteve jobs turns the world's
media, arrives, he talks forhalf an hour and gets something
like half a billion pounds worthof free advertising from that.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
I mean that's amazing .
So I'm going to share anotherone, then I want to hear yours,
then we're going to have a breakand when we come back, we're
going to talk about how you,listener, can create your very
own guerrilla marketing campaign.
Courtesy of the drum, which isa media company.
I've taken their fantasticsteps on how to do this.
(17:18):
So I had a look at loads and Ikind of picked my favorite.
So this is 3m.
3m are famous for the yellowsticky note, but they also make
glass and Perspex products.
So they installed in 2005 indowntown Vancouver, at the
(17:40):
intersection of Broughton andWest Pender streets, near a bus
stop, stuck $3 million inbetween two panes of glass.
A security guard stood next tohim and said you're not allowed
to use any implants, just usingyour feet.
If you can smash this glass,take the $3 million, it's yours.
So blokes with work boots andhard hats were saying are you
(18:03):
having a joke?
No sure, have a go.
If you can smash the glass bykicking this glass in, take the
$3 million inside.
So the $ 3 million is wedgedbetween two sheets.
Yeah, yeah.
So these blokes and variouswomen start kicking the glass,
kicking the glass.
There's some shattering goingon but there's no breaking and
so no one keeps the 3 million.
Now people are going.
(18:23):
Are they mad?
They could lose 3 million here.
Someone with the right pair ofwork boots, steel toe caps could
chip it.
No one got it, so people had ago and that was sent all around
the world.
The thickness and the qualityof 3M's glass.
So that is complete guerrillamarketing.
You might have had permissionfrom the Council of Vancouver to
install this temporarystructure, but you're not paying
(18:46):
a media mogul, you're not justcreating an instagram campaign,
you're not buying an ad ontelevision, and yet, because we
have phones and video, this iswhere the leverage comes in.
Yeah, people are sharing it,which is the viral aspect.
So what's happened?
To guerrilla marketing sincethe birth of the internet?
Is, you add, in the viral kick?
Speaker 3 (19:06):
it's not just the viral, it's the fact it becomes
news.
So if you're a local newspaper,website, media in that area,
you're going to report that.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
Yeah, that's free you get that for free.
Well, I love the fact you'vesaid that, because that links me
perfectly on to houdini.
Harry houdini would go into acity and he would suspend
himself out of the window of thecompany nearest to the local
newspaper.
So he'd be in Boston at theBoston Globe.
(19:37):
He would find out which companywas opposite the globe and he
would tie himself out and he'dget lowered and so all the
reporters going.
Who's that?
That's Houdini.
He's doing a week of shows inin boston, brilliant, and they'd
write about it.
You know that's so clever.
So houdini was the genius atjust choosing.
And he not only was he great inpublicity, he was the ad, he
(19:57):
did his own ads yeah, yeah, yeah, you've got to do your own ads.
That's it yeah, well, thereporters would just go.
That can't be him himself.
No, no, he's now going to getout of that thing and climb back
up the you know, extraordinary.
So what about you?
You said that you wondered if Ihad anything covered that you
thought you loved as well in ouradvertising.
Speaker 3 (20:16):
So the one that I remember distinctly, uh, it
would have been 1990 or 91, oneof those years when the batman
film came out the original one,one with Michael Keaton and Jack
Nicholson, and everyone waswearing Batman t-shirts.
That was the big, the big thingthat that summer and I remember
(20:37):
that there was one day atWimbledon they were giving them
out to people online to get intothe Wimbledon championships,
and I think there's one famousshot of an entire load of seats
where every single person hasgot a batman t-shirt on so
that's shown all around theworld absolutely and this film
(21:00):
has just come out it was justbeing launched that week, so
you've got millions of peoplesitting with black batman
t-shirts with the yellow imageyellow
yeah, yellow, yeah, and, and asyou say, that goes viral, that
becomes the story.
Look how clever they were toget everyone wearing these
t-shirts at wimbledon for oneday and even days after.
(21:21):
I think.
If any shot of the crowd wouldhave a number of batman t-shirts
sitting in it, you couldn't getaway from it now you love
prince, but you do have to admitit's a questionable soundtrack,
isn't it questionable?
Speaker 1 (21:31):
I couldn't, I couldn't agree more.
Speaker 3 (21:32):
There's to admit it's a questionable soundtrack,
isn't it?
I couldn't agree more.
There's no doubt it'squestionable.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
There's one or two OK tracks.
What was the song that Princewrote for it?
Did he write three tracks forit?
There were loads.
Speaker 3 (21:40):
There were quite a few.
There was a main track that hewrote.
There was one called I've Seenthe Future.
It was called the Future.
It became a very goodunderground dance track but it
was nothing like his otheralbums.
But you know, I remember himtalking about going on set and
meeting Jack Nicholson andPrince felt he wasn't big enough
star to go and talk to JackNicholson.
(22:00):
Jack Nicholson was such apersonality and such a kind of
big guy that he couldn't go upto him because he was Jack you
know.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
So another one that impressed me in my research is
what's known as the Wall StreetBull guerrilla marketing stunt.
So I can't remember which crashit was, but after one of the
crashes you know the famous bull.
They've actually got one inBirmingham as well, yes, they
have, but you know the bull.
On International Women's Day, abig global investment firm
(22:35):
commissioned a copper statue ofan equally defiant girl and
placed her several yards infront of him, arms on her hips,
staring down this symbol of WallStreet.
Speaker 3 (22:45):
Brilliant.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
And they were called State Street Global Advisors and
the quote here is why they didthis and the quote here is why
they did this.
A key contributor to effective,independent board leadership is
diversity of thought, whichrequires directors with
different skills, backgroundsand expertise.
Today, we're calling on allcompanies to take concrete steps
to increase gender diversity ontheir boards and have issued
clear guidance to help thembegin to take action.
(23:07):
So that costs 360,000.
They're a 2.5 million trillionglobal investment firm, but they
commissioned an artist to makethis girl stuck there illegally
and of course, that goes allaround the world.
Gender diversity, internationalWomen's Day Amazing, you know a
piece of art.
(23:28):
I probably then sold it.
So what we're going to do nowis we're going to take a break
and then, after the break, we'regoing to come back and we're
going to look at how you cancreate your very own guerrilla
marketing campaign.
See you after the break.
Speaker 3 (23:39):
Let's do it.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
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business At Reality Training.
We believe in training that'snot just informative but
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With over 20 years ofexperience, we've honed our
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Speaker 1 (24:11):
Welcome back, bobbie.
So how do you do your very ownguerrilla marketing?
And I mentioned this is fromthe drum, support from them.
So, number one, you've got tofuse the mission with the medium
.
Now a good example of this ahorrible horror film, and as I
read this I went, yeah, Iremember this called smile came
out, really horrible film.
(24:32):
So what they did was they putpeople standing acting like
zombies, smiling in crowds, sothey immersed these, these
people to pay, to be weirdamongst other people, so that
they felt creeped out, and thathelps promote the film, because
and they did it.
(24:53):
I believe they did it in themeparks where people were
discussing it.
So you're choosing.
What's our mission to do this?
Is it to scare people?
Shock people, and what's themedium that we do it in?
The next thing is don't neglectthe big idea, because sometimes
you think it's oh, it's toocrazy, too big, Is he too big?
But if you absolutely go for itand the idea is really strong
(25:15):
and you really believe in it, Ithink that's the only way you're
going to make impact.
People say, oh, could we justdo this a little bit?
I think sometimes it has to beso big because it's a bit
ambient, you know, at theexpense of a big idea.
So if you do have a big idea,you've got to go for it.
The next thing is you've got totry and reach specific groups.
So the wall street example isbrilliant because they're trying
(25:36):
to reach just that group.
So the positioning of the bull,you go for it.
If you were trying to affectthe government on arts, culture
or something, you might go forthe edinburgh festival if you
were to trying to talk aboutwaterways.
You do something on a coasterlocation.
So location is quite importantof where you put yourself.
It isn't just let's walk arounda town handing out flyers, it's
(25:56):
trying to think of it.
And the second thing, which isvery obvious, or the final thing
, the fourth thing, is getsomething that people will talk
about.
Not only do they want to do aphotograph, they want to say how
it's provoked, their thought Isit humorous, is it scary, is it
shocking?
Is it scary?
Is it shocking?
What's the sort ofself-examination that you might
(26:16):
go through so that if you'reinvited to somebody's house for
a bite that weekend, you wouldbring it up?
You'd say I don't know if youheard, this week I'm going to
have you plastered somethingacross an area that's going to
get virally shared, but it'svery hard to do it.
So I was thinking how could wedo a guerrilla marketing
campaign?
I'm just thinking train yeah,have you got any immediate
thoughts?
Speaker 3 (26:36):
but how a training company would.
Yeah, the first question iswhere?
So your location question is avery important one there.
So the the wall street one Iget there is that that bull is
an absolute image of somethingthat everyone walks by, everyone
knows, knows of.
Where is there something thatdefines what we do?
I don't know, I don't knowwhere that is.
(26:57):
Somewhere in the city, possiblySomewhere related to maybe
something around training,business, education, business
colleges, possibly Somethingaround that.
But it would be very hard forus to define that location.
That's the first thing.
The people again it's a verydifficult thing to think who are
(27:18):
those absolute individuals thatwe want to see?
Whatever it is we're doing andI suppose that's what social
media does with videos and stuffis you hope that the viral
shock of those videos gets tothose people that you're trying
to get to.
But the getting to individualsand for us it's only a very few
individuals is much harder.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
My idea is not formed and it's rather weird, so
you're gonna have to help me.
Speaker 3 (27:43):
But they said, if it's a big vision, go for it.
Speaker 1 (27:45):
Well, it needs help.
So I was watching thedocumentary this week with
prince william we can curehomelessness.
That's his campaign.
He's picked five cities to doit.
My take on that, which isn'tworked out at all, is not
homeless yet, and it's by peoplewho've not been trained.
Because they're not trained,they can't do their jobs
(28:07):
properly, which means they'll beunemployed and they'll become
homeless.
So you put the effort and theinvestment back on companies
that they're just not investingin their people that they're
disposing of people.
Now, there isn't a reason whypeople become homeless, but the
reason why people lose their jobwhen they can't do their job is
(28:28):
, if they can't do it, someone'sgot to train them to do it, so
it's kind of like not homelessyet.
Speaker 3 (28:33):
So another option on that would be rather than look
at what the worst possible,catastrophizing, lowest common
actuality could be, you couldflip that to what could this
training actually help youachieve for your life?
Speaker 1 (28:50):
Well, you could, but, as we know, people buy.
People buy cures, notpreventatives, and people don't,
don't really care about whatthey're going to make.
Speaker 3 (28:58):
They're more scared about what they're going to lose
I get that, but I think maybemaking the illusion between
learning something and beinghomeless is quite a leap but
you're saying learn somethingand what you could have, so
would you play?
Would you play on the?
Speaker 1 (29:11):
greed of the owner.
Speaker 3 (29:12):
So train your people, get your island home you know
maybe we always talk about it abit that these are skills for
life.
Yes, if you think about whatskills give you once you've
learned them and what they giveyou over your, your lifetime,
then it is quite a bigaspirational thing.
But how you would create thatand to make someone go, oh god.
(29:32):
That's a really importantmessage.
We've got to invest in that.
It's a tough one.
It's a tough one, but it'sworth having a meeting about it
is.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
Right, Bobby boy, I hope you have enjoyed that and
listeners have so nice littlehalf hour or so episode for you
there on guerrilla marketing.
Speaker 3 (29:46):
And I'd also like to say that if other listeners have
seen some guerrilla marketingwhich has really blown their
minds, we'd love them to talkabout it in the review section
or to send us a note.
You can message us through allthe various platforms that we're
on.
We'd love to hear about somegreat examples.
I think this is a subject we'llreturn to because, as we see
(30:08):
these things occur, it would bea great thing to talk about,
because I wonder not just aboutthe promotional aspect of it,
but how that feeds through tosales.
With Apple, it's easy theylaunch a new iPhone, they're
going to sell iPhones, but whatabout other companies who've
launched something using this,and how has that fed through to
products or sales or servicesthat they're trying to get rid
(30:28):
of?
I'd be interested to see moreabout that.
So I think we'll return to this.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
And there's so much on social media and so much of
it is poor.
Wouldn't it be great to haveinteresting debates?
Topicalities yeah provocations,topical things that actually
lead back to a company or aservice.
It would be.
It'd be more intelligentmarketing.
All right, thanks for tuning in, thanks for listening and
remember you can share this withanyone who might be interested.
Very interesting thanks, jay.
Speaker 3 (30:53):
See you on the next one.
Ciao for now.
Thank you.
bob, um, thanks for coming in.
I thought it was important that, uh, we met before the parents
evening okay I mean that.
That's, that's why I've askedyou in, because, as you know,
tomorrow is well your lowersixth parents evening, and we
are in the final two years ofyou here at school.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Yeah, now your EPQ tutor has sent me your essay on
guerrilla marketing.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
Oh, yes, I worked really hard on that Right.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
You're doing business studies A-level as well.
I understand.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
But your EPQ, you very specifically chose
guerrilla marketing yes, that'sright.
Yes, it's fascinating well,what do you think?
Speaker 3 (00:52):
it is well, if you look at what happens in the
congo, the silverback guerrillasthey have one, one major
guerrilla who leads the pack,and what they do is they're in
charge of everything and theyfight the other guerrillas from
the other packs as well.
And the silverbacks, if they'rereally big, they can really
(01:15):
hammer the other guerrillas, andthat means they have more
territory.
You see, so what I've done isI've used that illusion of
conquering territory, whichmeans power, and I've used that
illusion to bring it to life inmy marketing essay.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
Now, you didn't get a high mark on your English GCSE.
I need to just get a penG-U-E-R-I-L-L-A Gorilla not
Gorilla.
Is that the Spanish spelling ofgorilla?
Very good, you did Spanish GSEand, as you know, it means war,
(01:52):
little war in a sense Guerra iswar, so but you've completely
misunderstood what gorillamarketing is, so I suggest
tomorrow that when your parentscome, we don't mention this part
of your studies in any wayshape whatsoever.
Okay, right, I'll see you onMonday.
(02:15):
Welcome, ladies and gentlemen.
(02:48):
You are listening to a newepisode of the Reality of
Business, and today we aretalking about guerrilla
marketing.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
Yes, and I think a lot of people will make mistakes
similar to that of the 18-yearyear old there, jeremy, don't
you when it comes to well, Ithink people think the spelling
is guerrilla.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
Now we have we're lucky, ladies and gentlemen, to
have a military historian here.
So, bob, can you explain theconcept of guerrilla warfare?
Speaker 3 (03:19):
I can.
So a very good example ofguerrilla warfare would be
something like the Vietnam War,which is actually something I'm
listening to a series ofpodcasts about at the moment.
So the Vietnam War you hadNorth Vietnam versus South
Vietnam, supported by theAmericans, and that was in the
(03:41):
South, and those conflictsinvolved territory and battles
for land, but underneath it allyou had guerrilla warfare, which
was a very famous offensive.
They actually managed throughguerrilla warfare to attack the
(04:09):
American embassy in Saigoncompletely by surprise.
That's what the Tet Offensivewas.
They couldn't have done thatwith standard, traditional
land-based warfare.
It had to be a guerrilla attack.
So there we are.
That's what it is.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
And I love the fact you know about the Spanish route
route, I mean interesting.
Sun tzu even talked about it,but didn't call it guerrilla,
but he talked about guerrillastyle tactics in the art of war.
And your favorite roman generalbob quintus, fabius maximus
veroccusus, who actually hadveruccas named after him.
He, um, he did so so muchmarching around, he talked about
(04:44):
it too, but it is, is it's sortof ambush?
All those you know, sabotage,raid, yes, it's all of those
tactics.
So now we broaden into today'sepisode and we're talking about
guerrilla marketing.
You know, if we put the twothings, things together, we're
trying to astonish our audience,surprise them, shock them.
(05:07):
It's not a typical planned outstrategy, it's an ambush.
It's it's barely legal, but itis legal.
But I might be using, as we'llget into it, a sort of area or
space, or I might be ambushingan event.
I might be doing something thatseems, should they be here?
Speaker 3 (05:27):
that's kind of yeah, actually, and actually thinking
about it now, I can remember acouple of clear examples where
I've seen it in my lifetime thatI've never forgotten so I think
if people get it right then youcan see how the tactic
absolutely works.
But I'm wondering whether youwill have them in your research.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
Well, we'll come to that.
So, just as you've given us thesort of history warfare analogy
, it's bordering on beingillegal, but in most cases
perfectly legal.
It is a way of getting intopeople's minds, but not through
conventional channels.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
Although there is a blurred line.
Now we're in the digital agewhich we've come to.
Speaker 3 (06:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
It's also not and this is a horrendous joke that
I've come up with or Hernandez,it's not also guerrilla
marketing?
The Cadbury's advert with theguerrilla playing the drums to
In the Air Tonight by PhilCollins?
That is famous gorillamarketing, but not that.
So the term gorilla marketingis coined by J Conrad Levinson,
(06:32):
1933 to 2013.
So, a business writer, heworked with lots of agencies and
he wrote this book in I thinkit was 1984, 1984, 1985.
I can check that he died aged80 in 2013.
So he's an ex-psychologystudent at the University of
(06:57):
Colorado.
He then goes and becomesworking in ad agencies with Leo
Burnett.
He worked in London and he wascreative director.
He also joined JWT J WalterThompson where, if you might
remember, my mother worked as aPA.
In the 1960s he became seniorvice president of JWT.
Some of his big things were theMarlborough man.
So he's very famous.
(07:17):
He was right behind theMarlborough man.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
Huge campaign, pillsbury Doughboy, which is
very famous in the US, the SearsDie Hard Battery, which was
copied by Duracell Tony theTiger for Frosties.
I mean, how did that impactyour childhood?
Well, you're one of the onlypeople I know who put sugar on
top of Frosties.
Oh, you have to If you'rehaving Frosties you have to have
(07:44):
sugar on top I mean that thatwas cornflakes with sugar for
the children, that couldn'tstomach the cornflakes.
But but bob morrell, there heis.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
No, no, no, no putting on his sugar but surely,
when you had standardcornflakes just as an aside and
I think it is essential forlisteners to understand this
when you had cornflakes when youwere younger, you sprinkled
some sugar on top of thecornflakes, didn't you?
You didn't just have them withmilk.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
I did to start, but then I I didn't beyond that.
I did to start.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
Yeah, I was able to have them without, I don't know
how you, I like alpen withoutsugar as well.
I think all cereals don't needany added sugar well, I think
that frosties are at their bestwhen you've got a nice film of
white sugar on top.
That's when it brings all thesweetness out of them.
They're great.
They are great.
And also and I think that ifyou think about crunchy nut
(08:35):
cornflakes now, which is thenatural extension of Frosties
these days, which makes themsound slightly healthier, but
it's essentially brown sugar andnuts you can do the same with
them.
I don't so much put sugar onthem these days, but in those
days that was absolutely thething to do.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
Well, tony the Tiger was working his magic.
That's part of J ConradLevinson's work.
But then he gets into teachingand he goes and teaches at the
University of California and hedevelops this term.
He writes a bestselling book.
It is 1984.
He's done okay.
He sold 20 million copies ofGuerrilla Marketing.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
So that helped pay for his retirement.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
So he did fine.
So he's where it all comes from, but of course, as we've
already said, it's not new.
Now, what's interesting?
Now?
Let's talk about the types now,and you'll love all this
marketing bull ambient is thatjust a term for marketing or
time for no one?
gorilla marketing correct, yeah,yeah well, well, you've got
ambient marketing which is sortof yeah out there, it's not, um,
(09:38):
it's not necessarily traceableto a media channel.
Okay, ambush, ambush marketing.
And the most common type ofguerrilla marketing with
ambushes in the last 10 yearsare flash mobs so you're in a.
You're in a train station, loadof people come and they start
singing something, and they'resinging about milk or something
who knows what, and you're goingall right, stealth marketing
(10:01):
creeping up on you and suddenlysurprised.
But this is the reallyinteresting one astroturfing.
Now, astroturfing is clearlyfake grass.
So you're creating a productand creating a spin and a hype
around it, but it's completelyfabricated.
There is no hype.
You are pretending there's ahype, so you could have a load
(10:22):
of people rushing to a store,creating a fake queue to buy a
product that's launched in thatstore that day.
That's fake crowd hype.
So you could have a load ofpeople queuing outside a cinema.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
What's this like?
Speaker 1 (10:39):
We all want to see this film that's just released.
So that will then get writtenabout astroturfing.
So you're creating completelymanufactured hype.
Speaker 3 (10:47):
You could have, you know, rent a crowd almost so
when I used to work on amagazine years ago called the
industry standard, it was aconsumer magazine and the week
that it launched they paidpeople to sit on tube trains
around London reading themagazine.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
That's astroturfing.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
Yeah, so you'd walk onto the train and there'd be 20
people all reading the samemagazine and you'd go, wow, that
must be good.
That's a great idea, isn't it?
And then you'd go and buy it.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
So as you see manufactured hype.
It's not true.
Now the other bit that getsslightly interesting is street,
what they call street, but thatdoes include outdoor, out of
home, and what's interesting nowis there's more effort put into
outdoor advertising in the hopethat it will be photographed
and shared so it could even bepackaging.
(11:46):
So one of the examples I'll givestraight away which probably
might resonate with you and thiswas pointed out to me by Fraser
, who runs Motus, a creativeagency in Milton Keynes Oatly
are particularly good at this,so that's oat milk.
They use every section of theirpackaging to tell you about
their carbon footprint.
They say you don't need to readthis, it's boring.
Don't need to read this, it'sboring.
(12:06):
They'll do an outdoor ad ofbarista oat milk coffee saying
this isn't online.
We hope a barista sees this ashe walks past it.
That's very good, or she?
Speaker 3 (12:17):
That's nice picking out the person.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
We'd love a barista to see this ad so that they want
to use our milk to make theircoffee.
And of course you might thenphotograph that.
They did one in a series ofposters on walls saying don.
And of course you might thenphotograph that.
They did one in a series ofposters on walls saying don't
worry, walk past.
A poster has no emotions.
It won't be offended if youdon't read it.
So they do things like that.
They're quite good atgenerating hype.
(12:40):
They're also trying to hold thedairy industry to account on
their packaging saying here iswhat we use waters, tons carbon
footprint to produce our oatmilk.
Why don't you share that dairyindustry?
That's interesting.
Yeah, they're going for the cow.
They are going for thenon-green effect of drinking
dairy milk.
Speaker 3 (12:59):
Just to come back on the idea that people will share
the image.
That reminds me years ago.
I think our second most popularyoutube video we ever did was a
thing we talked about timessquare and the power of
advertising and how you knowmillions of people probably per
(13:19):
day roll up in times square,because if you go to new york,
yeah, you're going to go totimes square and there's nothing
else to do but take photos ofthe ads.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
Of the ads.
Speaker 3 (13:28):
yeah, yeah, so there are these huge digital screens
with these movable ads.
You take pictures of them, takethem home and say to your
friends look, I was in TimesSquare and so again, you're
passing on, you're sharing thatad and if it's clever enough and
I've seen some amazing ones inplaces like Tokyo, where you
have images stepping out ofscreens now and being amazing
(13:50):
then you are going to share thatwith people who you meet.
So I think that's good.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
Well, the world's most expensive ad slot is in the
Super Bowl halftime in theUnited States.
The Super Bowl, you know thefinal American football match of
the year.
Speaker 3 (14:10):
So that's either side of the musical act then,
because there's always a12-minute music act that paid
millions to do that.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
They've had Jay-Z, they've had the.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
Weeknd, all sorts yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
But when you go in the halftime slot of the ad,
that's the most expensive slotin the world.
But then people say who was thehalftime slot?
So then you talk about the ad,yeah you could argue that that's
getting a form of viral sharing, but slightly different to
gorilla.
So let's, let's go to whatyou've just said about outdoor
(14:44):
advertising and how that gorillaeffect.
So a few few years ago, you andI we both at the same time
picked up on this and we watchedthe BBC Mark Gatiss, dracula
yes, indeed.
Yeah very good With interestingactor playing Dracula called
Clem or something, was he aDanish actor played.
Speaker 3 (15:03):
Dracula.
He is now amazing in the firstseason of Bad Sisters on apple
tv.
That is a superb, verybrilliant drama set in ireland
and he is amazing as the baddie.
In that he's a brilliant actor.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
I'm sorry to him.
I've forgotten his name forthis, but it's a name like clem
or chem or something, but heplayed count dracula.
Now they unveiled an ad andI've got all the stats here.
I'm going to get you to try andguess them.
So, on the 30th of december2019, they installed two outdoor
posters, one in birmingham, onein london with daggers as the
(15:40):
sun came down and moved across.
It created the shadow ofdracula's face okay so so you've
got the ad and in in the dayyou just go as loaded daggers
sticking.
They can't see anything as thesun.
They angled the poster, theoutdoor ad.
It was cleverly worked out sothat it would then produce the
werewolfy face of dracula.
(16:01):
Okay, now, how many articleswere written about that ad?
Speaker 3 (16:08):
like proper articles oh loads, I would imagine 40
full-length articles okaycontent pieces shared online.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
People then took videos.
There was a video taken of it.
How many people watched thatvideo?
It's only uk.
Speaker 3 (16:23):
It's only dracula yeah, but it's still quite a lot
yeah because you probably watchit more than once.
Well, how many?
People watched it, I don't know.
Half a million, seven millionokay so that's serious serious,
serious, yeah.
So that's the same principle asapple product launches that
(16:45):
steve jobs used to do.
Yeah, you're gonna share itsteve jobs turns the world's
media, arrives, he talks forhalf an hour and gets something
like half a billion pounds worthof free advertising from that.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
I mean that's amazing .
So I'm going to share anotherone, then I want to hear yours,
then we're going to have a breakand when we come back, we're
going to talk about how you,listener, can create your very
own guerrilla marketing campaign.
Courtesy of the drum, which isa media company.
I've taken their fantasticsteps on how to do this.
(17:18):
So I had a look at loads and Ikind of picked my favorite.
So this is 3m.
3m are famous for the yellowsticky note, but they also make
glass and Perspex products.
So they installed in 2005 indowntown Vancouver, at the
(17:40):
intersection of Broughton andWest Pender streets, near a bus
stop, stuck $3 million inbetween two panes of glass.
A security guard stood next tohim and said you're not allowed
to use any implants, just usingyour feet.
If you can smash this glass,take the $3 million, it's yours.
So blokes with work boots andhard hats were saying are you
(18:03):
having a joke?
No sure, have a go.
If you can smash the glass bykicking this glass in, take the
$3 million inside.
So the $ 3 million is wedgedbetween two sheets.
Yeah, yeah.
So these blokes and variouswomen start kicking the glass,
kicking the glass.
There's some shattering goingon but there's no breaking and
so no one keeps the 3 million.
Now people are going.
(18:23):
Are they mad?
They could lose 3 million here.
Someone with the right pair ofwork boots, steel toe caps could
chip it.
No one got it, so people had ago and that was sent all around
the world.
The thickness and the qualityof 3M's glass.
So that is complete guerrillamarketing.
You might have had permissionfrom the Council of Vancouver to
install this temporarystructure, but you're not paying
(18:46):
a media mogul, you're not justcreating an instagram campaign,
you're not buying an ad ontelevision, and yet, because we
have phones and video, this iswhere the leverage comes in.
Yeah, people are sharing it,which is the viral aspect.
So what's happened?
To guerrilla marketing sincethe birth of the internet?
Is, you add, in the viral kick?
Speaker 3 (19:06):
it's not just the viral, it's the fact it becomes
news.
So if you're a local newspaper,website, media in that area,
you're going to report that.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
Yeah, that's free you get that for free.
Well, I love the fact you'vesaid that, because that links me
perfectly on to houdini.
Harry houdini would go into acity and he would suspend
himself out of the window of thecompany nearest to the local
newspaper.
So he'd be in Boston at theBoston Globe.
(19:37):
He would find out which companywas opposite the globe and he
would tie himself out and he'dget lowered and so all the
reporters going.
Who's that?
That's Houdini.
He's doing a week of shows inin boston, brilliant, and they'd
write about it.
You know that's so clever.
So houdini was the genius atjust choosing.
And he not only was he great inpublicity, he was the ad, he
(19:57):
did his own ads yeah, yeah, yeah, you've got to do your own ads.
That's it yeah, well, thereporters would just go.
That can't be him himself.
No, no, he's now going to getout of that thing and climb back
up the you know, extraordinary.
So what about you?
You said that you wondered if Ihad anything covered that you
thought you loved as well in ouradvertising.
Speaker 3 (20:16):
So the one that I remember distinctly, uh, it
would have been 1990 or 91, oneof those years when the batman
film came out the original one,one with Michael Keaton and Jack
Nicholson, and everyone waswearing Batman t-shirts.
That was the big, the big thingthat that summer and I remember
(20:37):
that there was one day atWimbledon they were giving them
out to people online to get intothe Wimbledon championships,
and I think there's one famousshot of an entire load of seats
where every single person hasgot a batman t-shirt on so
that's shown all around theworld absolutely and this film
(21:00):
has just come out it was justbeing launched that week, so
you've got millions of peoplesitting with black batman
t-shirts with the yellow imageyellow
yeah, yellow, yeah, and, and asyou say, that goes viral, that
becomes the story.
Look how clever they were toget everyone wearing these
t-shirts at wimbledon for oneday and even days after.
(21:21):
I think.
If any shot of the crowd wouldhave a number of batman t-shirts
sitting in it, you couldn't getaway from it now you love
prince, but you do have to admitit's a questionable soundtrack,
isn't it questionable?
Speaker 1 (21:31):
I couldn't, I couldn't agree more.
Speaker 3 (21:32):
There's to admit it's a questionable soundtrack,
isn't it?
I couldn't agree more.
There's no doubt it'squestionable.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
There's one or two OK tracks.
What was the song that Princewrote for it?
Did he write three tracks forit?
There were loads.
Speaker 3 (21:40):
There were quite a few.
There was a main track that hewrote.
There was one called I've Seenthe Future.
It was called the Future.
It became a very goodunderground dance track but it
was nothing like his otheralbums.
But you know, I remember himtalking about going on set and
meeting Jack Nicholson andPrince felt he wasn't big enough
star to go and talk to JackNicholson.
(22:00):
Jack Nicholson was such apersonality and such a kind of
big guy that he couldn't go upto him because he was Jack you
know.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
So another one that impressed me in my research is
what's known as the Wall StreetBull guerrilla marketing stunt.
So I can't remember which crashit was, but after one of the
crashes you know the famous bull.
They've actually got one inBirmingham as well, yes, they
have, but you know the bull.
On International Women's Day, abig global investment firm
(22:35):
commissioned a copper statue ofan equally defiant girl and
placed her several yards infront of him, arms on her hips,
staring down this symbol of WallStreet.
Speaker 3 (22:45):
Brilliant.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
And they were called State Street Global Advisors and
the quote here is why they didthis and the quote here is why
they did this.
A key contributor to effective,independent board leadership is
diversity of thought, whichrequires directors with
different skills, backgroundsand expertise.
Today, we're calling on allcompanies to take concrete steps
to increase gender diversity ontheir boards and have issued
clear guidance to help thembegin to take action.
(23:07):
So that costs 360,000.
They're a 2.5 million trillionglobal investment firm, but they
commissioned an artist to makethis girl stuck there illegally
and of course, that goes allaround the world.
Gender diversity, internationalWomen's Day Amazing, you know a
piece of art.
(23:28):
I probably then sold it.
So what we're going to do nowis we're going to take a break
and then, after the break, we'regoing to come back and we're
going to look at how you cancreate your very own guerrilla
marketing campaign.
See you after the break.
Speaker 3 (23:39):
Let's do it.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
Thank you for listening to the reality of
business At Reality Training.
We believe in training that'snot just informative but
transformative.
With over 20 years ofexperience, we've honed our
approach to deliver real,measurable change.
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Speaker 1 (24:11):
Welcome back, bobbie.
So how do you do your very ownguerrilla marketing?
And I mentioned this is fromthe drum, support from them.
So, number one, you've got tofuse the mission with the medium
.
Now a good example of this ahorrible horror film, and as I
read this I went, yeah, Iremember this called smile came
out, really horrible film.
(24:32):
So what they did was they putpeople standing acting like
zombies, smiling in crowds, sothey immersed these, these
people to pay, to be weirdamongst other people, so that
they felt creeped out, and thathelps promote the film, because
and they did it.
(24:53):
I believe they did it in themeparks where people were
discussing it.
So you're choosing.
What's our mission to do this?
Is it to scare people?
Shock people, and what's themedium that we do it in?
The next thing is don't neglectthe big idea, because sometimes
you think it's oh, it's toocrazy, too big, Is he too big?
But if you absolutely go for itand the idea is really strong
(25:15):
and you really believe in it, Ithink that's the only way you're
going to make impact.
People say, oh, could we justdo this a little bit?
I think sometimes it has to beso big because it's a bit
ambient, you know, at theexpense of a big idea.
So if you do have a big idea,you've got to go for it.
The next thing is you've got totry and reach specific groups.
So the wall street example isbrilliant because they're trying
(25:36):
to reach just that group.
So the positioning of the bull,you go for it.
If you were trying to affectthe government on arts, culture
or something, you might go forthe edinburgh festival if you
were to trying to talk aboutwaterways.
You do something on a coasterlocation.
So location is quite importantof where you put yourself.
It isn't just let's walk arounda town handing out flyers, it's
(25:56):
trying to think of it.
And the second thing, which isvery obvious, or the final thing
, the fourth thing, is getsomething that people will talk
about.
Not only do they want to do aphotograph, they want to say how
it's provoked, their thought Isit humorous, is it scary, is it
shocking?
Is it scary?
Is it shocking?
What's the sort ofself-examination that you might
(26:16):
go through so that if you'reinvited to somebody's house for
a bite that weekend, you wouldbring it up?
You'd say I don't know if youheard, this week I'm going to
have you plastered somethingacross an area that's going to
get virally shared, but it'svery hard to do it.
So I was thinking how could wedo a guerrilla marketing
campaign?
I'm just thinking train yeah,have you got any immediate
thoughts?
Speaker 3 (26:36):
but how a training company would.
Yeah, the first question iswhere?
So your location question is avery important one there.
So the the wall street one Iget there is that that bull is
an absolute image of somethingthat everyone walks by, everyone
knows, knows of.
Where is there something thatdefines what we do?
I don't know, I don't knowwhere that is.
(26:57):
Somewhere in the city, possiblySomewhere related to maybe
something around training,business, education, business
colleges, possibly Somethingaround that.
But it would be very hard forus to define that location.
That's the first thing.
The people again it's a verydifficult thing to think who are
(27:18):
those absolute individuals thatwe want to see?
Whatever it is we're doing andI suppose that's what social
media does with videos and stuffis you hope that the viral
shock of those videos gets tothose people that you're trying
to get to.
But the getting to individualsand for us it's only a very few
individuals is much harder.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
My idea is not formed and it's rather weird, so
you're gonna have to help me.
Speaker 3 (27:43):
But they said, if it's a big vision, go for it.
Speaker 1 (27:45):
Well, it needs help.
So I was watching thedocumentary this week with
prince william we can curehomelessness.
That's his campaign.
He's picked five cities to doit.
My take on that, which isn'tworked out at all, is not
homeless yet, and it's by peoplewho've not been trained.
Because they're not trained,they can't do their jobs
(28:07):
properly, which means they'll beunemployed and they'll become
homeless.
So you put the effort and theinvestment back on companies
that they're just not investingin their people that they're
disposing of people.
Now, there isn't a reason whypeople become homeless, but the
reason why people lose their jobwhen they can't do their job is
(28:28):
, if they can't do it, someone'sgot to train them to do it, so
it's kind of like not homelessyet.
Speaker 3 (28:33):
So another option on that would be rather than look
at what the worst possible,catastrophizing, lowest common
actuality could be, you couldflip that to what could this
training actually help youachieve for your life?
Speaker 1 (28:50):
Well, you could, but, as we know, people buy.
People buy cures, notpreventatives, and people don't,
don't really care about whatthey're going to make.
Speaker 3 (28:58):
They're more scared about what they're going to lose
I get that, but I think maybemaking the illusion between
learning something and beinghomeless is quite a leap but
you're saying learn somethingand what you could have, so
would you play?
Would you play on the?
Speaker 1 (29:11):
greed of the owner.
Speaker 3 (29:12):
So train your people, get your island home you know
maybe we always talk about it abit that these are skills for
life.
Yes, if you think about whatskills give you once you've
learned them and what they giveyou over your, your lifetime,
then it is quite a bigaspirational thing.
But how you would create thatand to make someone go, oh god.
(29:32):
That's a really importantmessage.
We've got to invest in that.
It's a tough one.
It's a tough one, but it'sworth having a meeting about it
is.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
Right, Bobby boy, I hope you have enjoyed that and
listeners have so nice littlehalf hour or so episode for you
there on guerrilla marketing.
Speaker 3 (29:46):
And I'd also like to say that if other listeners have
seen some guerrilla marketingwhich has really blown their
minds, we'd love them to talkabout it in the review section
or to send us a note.
You can message us through allthe various platforms that we're
on.
We'd love to hear about somegreat examples.
I think this is a subject we'llreturn to because, as we see
(30:08):
these things occur, it would bea great thing to talk about,
because I wonder not just aboutthe promotional aspect of it,
but how that feeds through tosales.
With Apple, it's easy theylaunch a new iPhone, they're
going to sell iPhones, but whatabout other companies who've
launched something using this,and how has that fed through to
products or sales or servicesthat they're trying to get rid
(30:28):
of?
I'd be interested to see moreabout that.
So I think we'll return to this.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
And there's so much on social media and so much of
it is poor.
Wouldn't it be great to haveinteresting debates?
Topicalities yeah provocations,topical things that actually
lead back to a company or aservice.
It would be.
It'd be more intelligentmarketing.
All right, thanks for tuning in, thanks for listening and
remember you can share this withanyone who might be interested.
Very interesting thanks, jay.
Speaker 3 (30:53):
See you on the next one.
Ciao for now.
Thank you.
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