I Got Five On It ~ Part Two

Welcome Back to Part Two of "I Got Five On It!"   This episode discusses the art of fair partnership, reciprocity, and negotiation between siblings and the impact that understanding reciprocity has on future relationships. Reciprocity and fair partnership are valuable and foundational for healthy adult relationships and building a healthy future. Join in on the laughter and inspiration with the Savage Siblings as they discuss the pros and cons of reciprocity and how that is connected to the spirit of negotiation. The episode asks, what do we both bring to the table of our relationships, business partnerships and human interactions? Learn the difference between healthy reciprocity and transactional relationships and get better to reach agreement and harmony through the value of reciprocity.  

Memorable quotes:

• Reciprocity in family isn’t a space to get paid, but a space where you say thank you for what the family provides. ~ Anitra
• Healthy reciprocity is trust to give and receive so you can keep pushing forward. ~ Anitra
• Healthy reciprocity gives you knowledge of how to add value and is rooted in openness and honesty. ~ Anitra
• People don’t have glass foreheads, and can't show scars if reciprocity isn’t healthy. ~ Anitra
• Reciprocity is harmony over balance, knowing what is required for the well being of the relationship. ~ Anitra
• You want the victory, you must make the investment, accept the struggle and reveal your vulnerability. ~ Andre
• Reciprocity is awareness and investment that requires work.  Anitra
• Effective reciprocity may require more for one member during one season, but not enabling.  Anitra
• Transactional relationships are negative or selfish reciprocity. ~ Anitra
• Stop giving when the other person isn’t inclined to contribute to promote growth. ~ Anitra
• Reciprocity is sometimes sacrificial.  Andre
• Forgiveness doesn't require both parties to participate; but anybody involved is given space for reciprocity. ~ Anitra

Keywords: 

#MentalHealth, #therapy,  #psychotherapy, #relationships, #psychology, #healing, #counseling, #ministry, #theology, #transformation, #change, #counselor, #therapist, #wholeness, #healthy, #health, #lifestyle, #mental, #emotions, #emotional, #spiritual, #minister, #christianliving, #christian, #wellness, #lifecoach, #forgiveness, #SavageSibling, #Savage, #Sibling,  #Brother, #Sister, #Family, #Parent, #S2Mediaworks, #SavageSiblingsPodcast, #Negotiation, #Fairpartnership, #Reciprocity, #Comingtothetable, # Knowthetable, #Reliability, #Harmonyoverbalance, #Transactional/antireciprocity, #ParasitenotReciprocity,  #Sacrifice, #Takermentality

Call to Action: 

• Post comments! Leave us a review!
• Share your thoughts on how you define reciprocity.  Have you developed excellent negotiation skills from your siblings?
• Any topics you want us to discuss?

Sound Editors: Kyle Davis and Dwayne McClendon
Music: Maxwell Music
Photography: K.Cross Photography

00:00:00 ~ Introduction
00:02:00 ~ Savage Segment: How I learned reciprocity?
00:20:50 ~ Savage Segment: How do we use reciprocity?
00:24:43 ~ Savage Segment: You Owe Me!
00:31:22 ~ Savage Segment: When to stop giving.
00:48:38 ~ Transformational Perspective: Know who to bring to the table.
00:52:52 ~ The Quick Shot: Encourage People to Reciprocate
00:58:52 ~The Final Blow: Everybody gets more!
01:00:55 ~ Closing: Thanks for joining us!

Brutally Honest. Relentlessly Transparent. Unapologetically Authentic.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):


Anitra (00:11):
Hey, hey, beautiful people. How are we doing? I am
Anitra and Lawson storyteller,producer, educator, content
creator, creator . He is Dr .
Andre Evans. He's the chiefnegotiator for the Evans
family. He even negotiates insilence. Yep , that's right.
Silent pressure. He's very goodat that. We are the Savage

(00:33):
siblings, and this is theSavage Siblings Podcast, where
we are brutally honest,relentlessly transparent, and
unapologetically authentic. Soglad you guys are rocking with
us for another episode. Hey,welcome back. Welcome back to
part two of I got five on it.
Yep . Is that you, are you theperson who's always willing to

(00:55):
contribute to support thevision, to add to the goal of
the greater good? You got fiveon it. So that's what we've
been delving into in importanceof reciprocity. We've been
analyzing what we bring to thetable and understanding that
everyone has to bringsomething. Right? So welcome
back to the discussion. This ispart two. So if you didn't
listen to part one, put a pauseright here. Go back and listen

(01:19):
to part one. You gotta catchup. Catch up on the Art of fair
partnership, reciprocity,negotiation, all from the
sibling perspective. So wetalked about positive and
negative reciprocity. 'causethere's a difference, y'all,
how we learned reciprocity.
'cause sometimes you have badexamples. Identifying givers
and takers. Yeah. That's you.
If you the one that's alwayssaying, can I get, can I get,

(01:41):
can I get you a taker? Right.
We laid a lot of foundation inpart one . I want you to go
check it out. Okay. But we gota lot more to discuss right
here, right now in part two of,I got five on it. So without
further ado, let's get into it.
Y'all ready to get savage?
Good. Let's get savage. I thinkI taught , thought about it

(02:07):
from the standpoint andperspective of relationships.
Like how I've learnedreciprocity is through these
relationships. And so for me, Ibroke it down into a couple of,
like, core relationships. Soobviously we talked about
parents , uh, prior to . Butwhat I think is, is so
important in terms of how ourparents teach us reciprocity,
is I remember one of our goodfr family friends, like growing

(02:30):
up, our childhood family,friends , um, they had a large
blended family. And every timeI would go over to their house,
Dre, I would watch when it wasdinner time . And they didn't
have a lot of money, but , um,the , all the siblings would
come together. 'cause the momwas a , at the , at that time
she was a single mom. And soshe was taking care of all five
of her kids by herself. And Iwatched them all, like

(02:53):
basically turn dinnertime intothis like, visual symphony
where everybody was right .
Doing what was their strength.
And so some of , um, some ofthe siblings were better cooks,
and so they did the cookscooking. Some others were
better at setting the table andgetting things arranged. Some
were better at washing thedishes. Uh , absolutely . And I
remember I was there as a guestand I just wanted to jump in

(03:15):
the symphony. Right ? Itreminded me of absolutely
something on like , like polarexpress or something. Like I
wanted to jump in and singalong and, and move along with
it. Uh , but I rememberthinking this is something that
they obviously with thecircumstance had to learn. How,
how do we all step in and makesure everybody eats, everybody
has a space. Everything istaken care of. No one should
have to carry all of theweight. And I watched that and

(03:38):
it, it just kept reminding mehow, you know , you want to be
able, I think, as a parent,'cause now I'm speaking from
the standpoint of parents , ummm-hmm. , you
know, to teach your children ,um, how they can, you know,
give how they can contribute.
And so right in watching thatsymphony, even though we didn't
have that symphony in ourhouse, you know, decades later
when I had , um, you know, our, my son , uh, I remember

(04:01):
thinking about, well,growing up we'd never had an
allowance. Right? Uh right .
That wasn't even just somethingthat we did in , in the
household. But as I wasthinking about Malachi and
wanting to introduce, you know,financial independence to him
and how you can make money, Iremember deciding, I'm not
going to, you know, pay him forsomething that should be part
of reciprocity. Right. . So when I talked to Guy ,

(04:22):
when I talked to Malachi andwas like, Hey, I'm gonna pay
you for using your mind, right?
So I'm not gonna pay pay youfor playing sports. I'm not
gonna pay you for things I'mgonna pay you for , for
something that I want you toknow is has value. So I'm gonna
pay you every time I read andevery time you can tell me
something. So we have thissystem where he gets paid so
much per, you know, per page.
And then he has to, you know,break down . I love it , what
he understood and write it out.

(04:42):
And so before he understood thepiece about the reciprocity, he
was like, well, why can't I getpaid for washing the dishes? Or
why can't I get paid for takingthe trash out? Right? And I
said, because your , your mindis valuable and everything
about you is valuable, but Iwant to sow into your mind
right's and let you know that'sit . Not only here's, but in
life you can get, you know, youshould be valued for the

(05:03):
creativity, for what comesoutta your mind. But I said,
when you take out the trash andwash dishes, that's the way you
say thank you to mom and dadfor what we're doing to bring
in the house, what we're doingto make sure that you eat what
we're doing to make sure youhave a roof over your head. And
obviously we do all thatthrough the power of God. But I
wanted him to know that's not aspace where you should get
paid. That's a space where yousay thank you. Mm-hmm .

(05:24):
. And that's whatreciprocity is . That's good .
So I said, every time that youtake the trash out, what you're
saying is, thank you dad. Thankyou mom, for what you've done
here . I love it . Every timeyou wash the dishes, what
you're saying is, thank you.
And so parents have a wonderfulspace where we, I think we
learn from them , um, in lotsof different ways. Whether it's
the symphony of that, you know, that are my family friends
back in Kansas, or if it'ssomething as simple as the

(05:45):
dynamics of should you have anallowance and should you not?
And what that looks like. But Idefinitely think from there ,
friends , um, becausefriendship has to be open and
honest, like friendships, right. Quality friendships only
exist in the space of opennessand honesty. And because it
depends on that. That's alsothe foundation for reciprocity.

(06:05):
Even as you, like youmentioned, you , you broke it
down so beautifully before Ieven know if I can give Right?
If I'm going to receive mm-hmm. Or who's gonna come to the
table mm-hmm . And who I'mgonna invite to this table.
Mm-hmm . If I'm not open andtruthful about what's at the
table, and if I'm not honestabout who I want there or if I
should be there, then I don'teven have the foundation for
healthy reciprocity. And Ithink when you have right ,
good quality friends, then that, that harmony is in place so

(06:28):
you can trust to give andreceive in a healthy way. And
you can absolutely modify and ,and adjust as that friendship
modifies and grows over time.
And one of my best friends fromDaytona Beach, before she moved
out here to Cali, she called tocheck in . And she, it was a
moment where I was feeling alittle homesick. I think I had
only been to, to Cali in Califor like a year. Okay. And I

(06:50):
was just overwhelmed with justhow different it was.
and just all the stuff I wasseeing. I lived in h weird as
we call it. So I was seeing awhole lot mm-hmm .
. And so she waschecking on me and she could
hear through , through my voicelike, this is, yeah , it's
gonna be okay. And she's tryingto encourage me. And I said ,
Broo , like a week later, I hada care package that showed up
on my doorstep. Her That'sawesome . That's awesome. And

(07:12):
in inside it, were all theselittle trinkets from Florida
and things that werereminiscent of Kansas. And at
the center of it, she wastelling me, just keep pressing
forwards. You , you're , you're, yeah , that's good . You are
your authentic self here. Butin case you get homesick,
remember you're a product ofKansas. You came out of
Florida, you got everything youneed. You're equipped to, you
know, take California by stormand just keep pushing forward.

(07:33):
And it just touched me. Butit's because of our friendship
that I had the space Absolutely. To be vulner to her and tell
her what I was really feeling.
Someone else would've beenlike, how's Cali ? I'd be like,
dope. It's great. And eventhough I'm crying at night,
right ? Right . It's amazing.
Nothing's wrong. But thefriendship gave me the safety
to really be honest about whereI was, what I was feeling. And
that is so critical forreciprocity. Because if I don't

(07:56):
truly know where you are, whatyou're feeling, I don't even
know how to add the value.
Don't even , don't

Andre (08:00):
Even know how to give, don't know how to give, don't
know what to , to bring to the

Anitra (08:03):
Table. Don't even know what to give. And then that
person doesn't receive itbecause that's not what I
really need. But you weren'topen and honest, honest about
what, what you really needed.
So now there's no balance andwe're left incomplete, we're
left, you know, wanting. And soquality reciprocity is rooted
in openness and honesty. Andthat's for both sides of it .
Absolutely. If you're notwilling to be , be open and
honest, don't expect accuratereciprocity. People don't have

(08:27):
glass foreheads. Right . Right,right , right . They can't
just, you come on , look atyour mind and know exactly what
you're feeling and vice versa.
You know, it don't necessarilyshow your vulnerability to
people who you don't count astrue friends. That's a tenant .
That part foundation forfriendship. That too . Because
you're gonna set yourself up,up to show your scars. Sh show
your your dirty draws .

(08:48):
Right, right . And you're gonnaget yourself hurt. They're ,
they're not gonna give what youreally need. They might give
you something else. And sofriends teach you , uh,
reciprocity when it's groundedin openness and honest honesty.
And these are the last twothings I'm gonna say that I'll
kick it back to you, bro, bro ,to talk about, you know, how we
use it. But listen, I firmlybelieve that I am not saying

(09:08):
everyone needs to go to collegeor to university, but I do
believe that every ,every person as much as
possible, should have onesemester of living in a room
with a complete stranger.
Stranger . The context ofcollege roommate. I just feel
like some life lessons, maybesome fighting , Lord

(09:29):
Jesus, Mr . Cuffs , you know,maybe all that will, will come
out of it. But I tell you, asmuch as I learned and I grew
and I matured, you know, beinga sibling to Andre and being
from the Midwest and all theparents, my parents taught us,
I learned a whole lot more inaddition to once I had to have
a college roommate who I didnot know. Right. That part , I

(09:51):
think it's for the good. And Ithink so just being in spaces
where you have to learn how tohave a harmony, that it's not
just your world. That yourroommate does care if you smoke
inside . Right . Your ,your room together, they do
care that you don't clean thetoilet. That you don't need to
stay up all night with thelight on. And my brother

(10:11):
actually taught me that. Myfirst, you know, my literally
the first week that I moved toTallahassee and was just
getting moved into , uh, mydorm, I think you and I, we had
gone somewhere to get somestuff and by the time we were
headed home, it was like almostmidnight. Mm-hmm .
. And so I thinkyou were like, okay, I'll get
home. I said, yeah, I'm gonnaunpack all this stuff and do
all this. And you were like,when? And I was like, tonight.

(10:31):
And, and you were like, okay,but what about your roommate?
Right. . And I waslike, oh . I was like, oh ,
. Right ? And this islike the first week. And so I
was like, I hadn't thoughtabout her Right at all. Right
at all. And trust me, the nextcouple of weeks I learned how
to think about her. She learnedhow to think about me.
Jesus. Yes . And we figured itout. But I definitely think,

(10:54):
and I told that to my stepson'cause he wasn't always very
good , uh, shout out to Keith .
He wasn't always , always verygood at cleaning the room. And
I said, you know, your mamaknee can't wait till you get
off to college. You going toget a roommate just as nasty.
And I tell you, he called meabout a semester and it was
like, Mamanee , I can't stand.
I was like , yep . So nowyou're learning that process.

(11:16):
So definitely people, parents,friends, college roommates. And
lastly, absolutely 100% yourspouse marriage will absolutely
teach you. Uh , you do learnreciprocity. Jesus . So again,
regardless of where you thinkyou are , Jesus , on the
spectrum of reciprocity andrelationships, these types of
relationships are gonna alwayskick it a step forward. And I ,
you know, I , the thing that Ialways say that I've, I had to

(11:37):
learn and I've learned, and I'mstill learning , uh, when it
comes to marriage andreciprocity, is it's always
focusing on the wellbeing of myspouse. Like always , that is
the priority that I have to putbefore me. And how can I
improve their wellbeing andwhat makes them feel seen,
heard and recognized. And it isharmony over balance because it

(11:57):
is not mm-hmm . 50 50, it's not 100, 100. It's
whatever the moment, thecircumstance to keep, keep
their wellbeing ahead of yoursrequires. And here's the idea.
If both individuals are doingthat, you are gonna get there a
lot faster. You're gonna get tosuccess faster. You are , you
are . I'm thinking yourwellbeing and your thinking, my

(12:17):
wellbeing, we're gonna get towhere we're going a lot faster.
Doesn't mean it'll be easy. It,it just means that I'm putting
you at the forefront. And so ifwe're doing that, I got your
back. You got my back, I gotfive on it, I got 20 on it, you
got 37 on it, we got somethingon it so that we can get where
we're trying to go. And it's,it's the husband taking his
pregnant wife to the beach atone in the morning when she's

(12:41):
like eight, nine monthspregnant, digging a hole in the
sand, putting a blanket downbecause she misses laying on
her stomach. It's that Right,

Andre (12:49):
Right, right,

Anitra (12:50):
Right. Mm-hmm . So that she can just lay on that
blanket, get her belly down inthere and just say, this feels
so good. 'cause I haven't beenable to do it for months. And
yes, it's one o'clock in themorning, but he cares enough
about my wellbeing. It's thewife pulling out the icy hot
and the, the , the wraps andall the , all the
things you need to make your 50plus husband who wants to play

(13:10):
rugby, you know, feel goodbecause it makes him happy. So
he's 55 out there getting beatup, but it brings him joy. So
you're out there, broughtcheerleading and rooting, and
then he comes home and you'reicing him down and you're,
you're greasing him up and belike, it's good baby. Yeah .
That tackle was amazing. Yeah,I know. Y'all lost and
you're supporting because it'syour wellbeing. Now you might

(13:30):
feel like you're too old forthis, but that's not what it is
. So ,

Andre (13:33):
So No, it so that's so funny. Um, go for it .
. I re I remember , um, there ,this is when , uh, Katina and I
were still married and, and yes, my boy Tory Woods , shout out
to Woods. We were , uh, playingbasketball against his nephew.
And his nephew is nephew andhis best friend. So his nephew
and his best friend, they'relike, they're both well over

(13:53):
six feet tall and they're spryand they can dunk. And there's
Tory who's maybe six one andthere's me, he's five eight
with Nike's on. And we're old.
And I remember, but listen,lemme tell you something. We
beat them boys in basketball.
We beat , beat them boys inbasketball. But you, we won,
but we lost. 'cause we laid inthe back of Tori's truck hurt .

(14:17):
And I just remember continuecoming out and she was like,
she was thinking we were readyto go home, but the way my body
worked when I was laying inthat bed, in that truck, she
was like, I'm gonna tell youwhat she did. She went inside
and brought a pillow and ablanket and laid it on on me
and under my head. And I'mtelling you, I would've slept
in the truck bed all nightlong. . But at some

(14:41):
point my body felt better. Butto me that's, that's, that's,
that's that I , in , that'sthat investment. 'cause here's
what you said earlier,investment. Um, you, the, the
reciprocity is not, I thinkwhen people think of
reciprocity, they think, whatam I gonna get? What am I'm
gonna give? But it's deeperthan that. It's, I'm absolutely
investing in you. Yes. BecauseI see victory and it's not, and

(15:03):
, and so, so when we say thingslike, I brought five, I , I got
five on it. Pe when you know,you , you know, you don't
understand reciprocity. When Isay I got five on it, you
focused on the five. Yes .
That's good . I didn't hearwhat I just said. That's good .
Didn't hear what I just said.
That's good . When I say I gotfive on it, don't focus on the
five. Focus on the I. Mm-hmm .
I said Andre's got five on it .

(15:24):
Well what does that mean?
That's the reliability of I .
'cause I know some folk that'lltell me I got five on it and
I'll be like, you ain't finnabring that $5. I can't trust
you to bring that. I can't justrely on you. You just talking.
'cause you want the victory,but you don't want to take the
struggle that comes withgetting the victory, the

(15:45):
sacrifice that comes with it.
You ain't saying , come on man.
Like , so that's what I'msaying. Mm-hmm . It's the
investment. But what am Iinvesting? I'm investing me. I
got five on it. Yeah . Yeah. Igot it on. And so with that ,
so when we're looking at, wellthen how do we use reciprocity?
Mm-hmm. , thenthere's this , this kind of
core quality. So we're lookingat the good side and the bad

(16:06):
side. Yep . The good or theselfless side says, at the core
of who I am when I say I gotfive on it is I'm investing in
this table, but what am Iinvesting? Mm-hmm .
myself. I'msharing myself. And so you're
right. I gotta know that I cantrust that when I put myself on

(16:27):
the chopping block, when I putmyself on the line, when I put
myself on the table and I'mrevealing to you my thoughts,
my feelings, my preferences, mycharacter. That's that honesty
you were talking about. Yeah.
This is where I'm saying whatI'm bringing to the table is
vulnerability and it'sassociated with the
relationship that we both needto bring on the table. So when,

(16:49):
when , how do I use it? How doI use the good way? How's the ,
what is the good way, theselfless way that I'm bringing,
I'm sharing myself. I've gotto, I've got to trust not only
that you will receive what I'msharing, but you'll know that
what I'm sharing will bringsuccess because I'm shaped from
the successful trust I canplace in myself and in others

(17:13):
when I decide to share. And mypart of the reciprocity. And
here's the thing. You , yousaid this as well and I , and I
wanna make sure that peopleunderstood. 'cause I didn't
want to gloss right over it.
You also talked about sharingand making sure that that's a
need, that needs to beshared because some of us will
share of ourselves in a waythat's only useful to

(17:36):
ourselves. Yeah . . Butwhen , but reciprocity is, you
gotta share of yourself in away that's useful to the other
person. 'cause there have beensome folk that brought stuff to
the table and I looked at it ,I said, but I ain't asked for
that. Like , I ain't asked forall that.

Anitra (17:50):
I don't need it. I

Andre (17:51):
Don't need that. Didn't ask for it . I don't , I don't
need that. That's , that's thatdude that's like, I got five on
it. And that dude's like, well,I got the plug. Well we , I
already got the plug. What doyou , you bring something else?
, bring something elseto the table. Bring all you ,
all you bringing , all youbringing is, is not
reciprocity, but repetition. Wealready got that. It's

Anitra (18:11):
Redundancy.

Andre (18:12):
Redundancy. We already got that. Like, bring something
we don't have or you just can'tbe at this table. We'll catch
you on you , we'll catch you onthe next time. We'll catch you
at a different table. And thenjust make sure you bring what
you got early on . Sothat , you know, don't be just
No , because that , that's howwe have to use it. Because I'm

(18:34):
telling you, parasites willcome and be like, well I'm
bringing this, but we alreadygot that. Well, I just want to
tag along then. Nah , thatain't how this works. Yeah . We
can't grow. Matter of fact,you're taking and that's all
you're doing. Yes . Sweet . So,so the good use of reciprocity
is saying, who are you willingto invest yourself in? Mm-hmm .

(18:56):
. Mm-hmm .
. You've gotta beable to trust that success is
going to come because you'retrusting and relying on what
others are bringing. And you'retrusting and relying on what
you bring. So that's the, thegood way of using reciprocity.
I'm a , I'm a I'm gonna kick itover to you in terms of what
your thoughts are on the goodway of, of using or being

(19:16):
shaped by reciprocity.

Anitra (19:19):
Absolutely. The selfless ways. And I'm, I'm
really co-signing everything.
You already set it up and soI'll just hit a few points
'cause you, you nailed it sobeautifully. But yeah,
awareness, like this notion ofgiving without being asked to,
like, if you can deter, if youknow that when I give this and
when I share this and when Igive of myself, it's, it's not
because they ask me to. 'causea lot of times when we're
thinking about, okay, you askedme to do it, so now I'm going

(19:42):
to do it, then we try to kindof catalog that. Right. Kind of
keep track of it. Well, youasked me to do it, so now I'm
doing it. But you asked , butyou asked . And I think just
being aware , um, that you cangive without being asked to,
but awareness can't standalone. It's really what b
already said. It's theawareness of I can give without
being asked to do it. But thenI also am invested in the

(20:04):
relationship, which means I,I'm working to understand the
needs, the likes, the desiresof that person. That way what
I'm giving without being askedis not giving something that
they don't want, like you justmentioned. And so that
awareness and that investmentin the relationship, and I did
put that point that it is work,investment is work. It's not
just, oh, we're friends and Ilike you, or Oh, we're family

(20:24):
and I love you. It's no, I, Iam working to understand you,
working to understand what youneed, what you don't need, what
you like, what you don't like,what you need that you don't
even know that you need. Right.
So then I can give that withoutyou asking. 'cause you didn't
even know that you needed it.
So it's not, it's just theawareness and the investment in
the relationship, which that'soften what happens with

(20:46):
reciprocity is we don't wannado the work. Right . We want it
to be as simple as Barbaraalready said, which is just let
me calculate this and I'm gonnado this not as an investment in
the personal relationshipmm-hmm . . And
I'm, I'm gonna do this becauseI'm gonna hold it at some
point. You know, I'm gonna keepthat and catalog it. And that's
why we don't do it. I think ina fair, a fair space, and
that's the last thing I wouldsay Yeah. With reciprocity, is

(21:09):
that it should be fair, butfair doesn't always mean equal.
Right. And so you have tounderstand that when you're
stepping into it, that it'sreally about the greater good
of the, the relationship or thepartnership or whatever you're
building. And so it's, it's thenotion of when one spouse takes
on all the work so that theother spouse can go back to
school or can finish school.
Right? Yeah. Yeah . So it maynot seem fair in terms of the

(21:31):
grind that I'm working afull-time job and a part-time
job, but it's equal because thegreater good Right. I should
say whether it's fair, whetheror not than equal, the greater
good is that I know once youget through school, then we're
gonna come back and we're gonnapush our family to another
level. Right? Absolutely. Andso I, I understand that. Don't,
if you come into that mindsetwhen it comes to the good

(21:52):
reciprocity or selfless ways,there are times where you may
have to grind out more. Likethat example mm-hmm.
, I remember ,um, my stepson's senior year,
we knew because he wasfinishing high school, a senior
in high school, he wasfinishing high school and he
was, he was being looked at andscouted by a bunch of different
colleges , uh, to be recruitedas a football, a star, an
athlete. And we set ouryoungest down, Malachi down,

(22:15):
and basically said to him, wesaid, son, this year it may
seem like we're putting moreeffort. Yeah . That's it . And
energy. That's it . IntoMarquis. It may seem like , uh,
that he's getting more money,he's getting more time, more
resources. Right. But what weneed you to understand is he is
in a very critical, you know,season in his life mm-hmm.
that it requiresmore mm-hmm . ,

(22:37):
but that doesn't take away fromyou. But we as a family have to
lock arms. He's gonna needdifferent things in terms of
time, transportation. Right .
Money to go on things. And sowe wanted, you know, Malachi to
know, just know that everyyoung person has this season,
you're gonna get there at somepoint. Right. But right now ,
we need you to be the biglittle brother. Mm-hmm . And
say, okay, if my brother needsmore, if there's something that

(22:59):
maybe I can't do, or if onlymom can come to this 'cause dad
has to go here, or vice versa.
Right . I understand. It's partof the greater good. And so No,
it's, yeah . It may not beequal, but it's just for a
season. And I think reallyeffective reciprocity
recognizes the season andrecognizes what's needed to
make sure that's nothing turnsinto enabling and nothing turns

(23:21):
into Right . Right . A spacewhere it can get unhealthy. Uh
, because in , in a healthy ,uh, healthy environment,
reciprocity can be a supportsystem and it should be . Right
. It can absolutely . But ithas to be healthy. It it's not
enabling. Yes , it does. Yes itdoes . It's not taking it
somewhere else, but it's asupport system that says, I got
five on it when you need it.
And if sometimes it's 15, youneed it , then I got that. And

(23:42):
then other times where you getto get five on it, but it's
gonna be based on awareness.
Right. That you can givewithout being asked to
investment in thoserelationships, you do the work.
Mm-hmm. do thework to understand the needs,
the likes, the desires Yeah .
Of the partnership andunderstand that reciprocity
should be fair, but fair is notalways equal. It's for the
greater good. And I thinkthat's for the , and I'll just

(24:04):
say it's work y'all. That'snot, that's not , it's not
light stepping. That's work,.

Andre (24:10):
No, it is. It is. And, and so in , in that, and I love
it in that, again, we're, we'retalking about , um, not the $5,
but the I and the I is theinvestment. We're talking about
who are you in these situationsand Yeah. Can you do the work?
Can you adapt some days, likeyou said, it's 15 other days

(24:30):
it's five. The key there is theI and, and, and it is ends up
being the selfless. But nowlet's look at the flip side and
I'm gonna kick it right back toyou. I want to ask you a
question right back to you is,well, how , what are some of
the bad or the selfish waysthat we use reciprocity?

Anitra (24:48):
I kept thinking about that song with , uh, NAS and
Genuine , um, owe Me Back.
Like, you Owe Your Taxes.

Andre (24:54):
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Anitra (24:55):
I forget the name of that song. Owe Me Back like 48
. Say what ? You 40 acres toblacks. Right. . Yeah .
Right. It's , it's when we'rekeeping score, the negative
side of reciprocity is , oh mygoodness. Yeah . That quotes
you owe me. That's just yourmindset. And so while there may
be a smile on your face thatsays, yes, I'm happy to give
and to do this, the smileactually comes from this notion

(25:17):
of, you're gonna owe me or I'mgonna look for something coming
back. And so I think in asimpler, a simpler , uh, label
would be transactional. Right.
Transactional.

Andre (25:27):
It's that's good.

Anitra (25:28):
It's notion of, yeah.
Like I, I, I want, I'm making arequirement to this giving.
Okay . I am gonna , I'm gonnatrack it that says, yes, I'm
giving this, but I'll expect itback. And this is what's so
cold-blooded about that kind oftransactional and , and more
selfish reciprocity issometimes you won't even know
that the person is doing that.
Right. 'cause they'll , they'llsmile in your face. Right ,

(25:49):
. Yeah .

Andre (25:50):
Yeah . They'll make you think

Anitra (25:51):
That , oh yeah, I'm happy to help you and Oh yeah.
Mm-hmm . And then it's soonthey take ,

Andre (25:54):
They keep

Anitra (25:54):
It account soon as they want something

Andre (25:56):
Soon . You remember when I did this?

Anitra (25:58):
Yeah . As soon as you have something they'll say, oh,
I always do for you. Or youremember when they always come
back

Andre (26:05):
And then you realize,

Anitra (26:07):
Whoa. Then

Andre (26:08):
They post it on social media, everybody around when
you give it. But as soon as youneed something, nobody know.
You bitter

Anitra (26:14):
Really

Andre (26:15):
Bitter ,

Anitra (26:15):
Bitter Betty , though .
I think the core is keepingscore, keeping tabs, right?
Yeah . The frequent , howfrequently they remind you. And
that's the , the negativespace. And the only thing I
wanna add to that, in terms ofreciprocity , uh, that's,
that's selfish or the bad sideof it. The, the selfish and bad
side of it also typically has asecrecy to it. Ooh . Um , and

(26:36):
what I mean by that is they'll,they'll hold it, especially
when it's supposed to be a safeplace, because reciprocity has
layers to it. Sometimes it does. The five that you're giving
me is because I am vulnerable.
Right. It's because I am in asituation. Right. And I trust
you to help me get out of thissituation. Yes . And when
someone is going to use thatagainst you in a harmful way,

(26:57):
they'll play into the secrecy.
They'll play into the , you cantell me, I got you. I'm
covering you. Don't trip. Andyou'll see them as soon as they
get a chance, expose it, orthey just dangle those secrets
over your head mm-hmm . Untilthey drain you dry. Mm-hmm .
Mm-hmm . And it still comesback to that transactional
space. And so it's like mybrother said, there even still

(27:18):
is a emphasis on the eye. Thedifference for, for the selfish
minded person is that they ,the eye is about filling up
their coffers. The eye isabout, it's not that I'm
bringing anything, it's that Iwant you to remember that I was
the one that did it, and that'snot We do.

Andre (27:35):
Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.
Yeah. So for me, and I'm justgonna say one thing to it, it,
it's, it's, for me, it's the,the focus isn't on the, I
unless it's the way you saidit, but the focus really is on
the five. Just don't you everforget what I brought about the

(27:55):
fact that I brought myself, butwhat I brought, I brought this,
we couldn't have this if itwasn't for your , wasn't for my
$5. And I'd be wanting to sayyour little old $5 . I
could've got that from anybody,you know, you know. But, but,
but No, but see, it , it's , itabsolutely is. It's, it's
transactional. That word is so, uh, tantamount to

(28:16):
understanding that. Yeah. And ,and , but, but look at what it
does when you're dealing withselfish people. So, so I you
mm-hmm . , youknow , you definitely grand
eloquently, beautifully put howwe can use reciprocity in the,
on the bad way, the selfish waymm-hmm. . But
look at what it does to the onewho's trying to do good. Then
you end up putting an edge ofselfishness on them. Come on

(28:37):
Now , because I've been with ,I've been with people who saw
me as a transaction, and theyput an edge of selfishness on
me because then I startedsaying, I'm not gonna let you
take advantage of , of myvalue. That's good . I'm not
gonna let you take advantage ofhow's good of my giftedness.
You just, you're not gonna takefor granted my how I'm gifted.
And so it put a littleselfishness on me because
people will absolutely use youfor success. So I moved from, I

(29:00):
got five on it, and I moved twoReverend, Snoop, doggy , do
everybody got they cup, butain't nobody chipped in
.

Anitra (29:07):
Right.

Andre (29:09):
But that , and that's a right. So , so that becomes a,
like, that's not the way Iwanna live. I don't want to
live where I'm saying, youknow, I'm blessed with this,
but because you didn't chip in,I'm not giving you mm-hmm .
, I wanna livewith everybody saying, Hey, I,
I got something in on this. And, and so really then, does that
not get us to this point where,when it comes to the

(29:32):
relationship reciprocity, wherenow we're having to find a
balance between selflessnessand selfishness? Yes . So now
we're, we're , we're, now we'velearned relationships of
reciprocity that we need alittle bit of both. And I'm not
saying that's the way it'ssupposed to be, but that's how
we end up living. Yeah. BecauseEd , because my personal
balance should be, you know,ends up being based on how I

(29:55):
feel about the relationship andthe other aspects of what makes
this relationship social. Uh,because at the, and I , oh man,
I read this quote, and so I'mmm-hmm . , and
I'm gonna quote it here. Um, itsaid, work is about a search
for daily meaning as well asdaily bread. Now think about
that for a second. That's good.
That's where we're, that'swhere we are in our reciprocity

(30:18):
relationships. It's about, do Imean enough, I have enough
value, but at the same time,are you going to help me eat at
the same time? And so, so where, where , you know, what we
want ideally is just simply tobe able to say, I'm going to
bring what, mean , what'svaluable. You're gonna bring,
what's valuable we going toeat. But now I've gotten to the

(30:40):
point where I'm saying, if I'mgoing to invest, I gotta worry
about my value, but I alsogotta worry about my ability to
eat. I shouldn't have to worryabout both in my work. Yeah .
Um, and, and that's when youknow, you're in a, you may be
in a difficult , uh,relationship that's not as
reciprocal as as you need it tobe. Um , and , and so we're

(31:01):
looking at, now we're lookingat what are we dealing with
when we're talking about giversand takers? And , and what I'm
realizing is givers seek outways to be helpful and give to
others. Whereas takers focus ongetting as much as possible
from others. So now it begs thequestion, is there ever a

(31:21):
point, and I'll kick this toyou, Nikki , is there ever a
point mm-hmm . where you need to stop giving?

Anitra (31:27):
Yeah. That's so good.
And yes, when it's, when you'regiving is becoming enabling
when the , the , there's nogrowth in the giving. And it
should be, you know, growth foryou , uh, as well as growth for
the other person. Because wealready established reciprocity
builds trust. Right. Whichmeans

Andre (31:45):
It does. It

Anitra (31:45):
Does. There's giving here and then there's giving
there, there's receiving here,there's receiving there. And
when it's healthy, it shouldjust, you know, continue. But
if you have to stop and askyourself, do you believe that
this other person is inclinedto contribute? And if, you know
in your heart of hearts theyare not inclined to contribute,
and I didn't say what, butcontributes something that
promotes the growth, somethingthat promotes the growth of the

(32:09):
relationship. If, you know, andthis is how , how do you know
their track record? It's year12, right ?

Andre (32:14):
Right. That's it, that's

Anitra (32:15):
It. It's year 12. Right . So are they anything, is they
, are they contributing in anyway ? Right . ,

Andre (32:21):
Like , like a list I've been giving, I've been giving
the entire

Anitra (32:24):
Time bullet point .
Right . And if, you know, andthat's a hard lesson and truth
sometimes to face, but if, youknow, it is they're not giving,
they have not proven to begiving, and you know, after so
much time they're not inclinedto contribute, then absolutely.
You, you know, it's a goodindication , dication , that
you should stop giving or atleast make some sort of

(32:46):
modification. And then, this isthe other thing I'll say too,
because I think this isimportant for those of us on
the giving side of this. Um, inparticular, you know,
reciprocity, as Broer alreadymentioned, it cannot be an
obligation. Right. It cannot bean obligation. It can't . But
you can sometimes have theability, and this is a blessing
that God can give you to giveinfinitely, some of us are

(33:06):
blessed mm-hmm . mm-hmm. , and so
mm-hmm . , itdoesn't , the the giving never
like it , it won't stop. Youcan have family members,
friends that can ask you forthings, and you're able to just
give it, and it will neverimpact you negatively in terms
of your resources. Mm-hmm .

Andre (33:19):
mm-hmm.

Anitra (33:19):
. But Right . Has it become an
obligation, and let me helpsome of y'all, has it become an
obligation that you'll stillsmile at them, and then you
don't even blink at giving themthe money or giving them this,
but then you call all yourother friends and be like, they
did it again. Well, now youmaking an obligation for your
friends, for your complaining.
Right.

Andre (33:37):
Right,

Anitra (33:37):
Right . So it's , it's now taxing you emotionally.
It's now taxing you mentally.
Do you have that emotionalspace to give up? Do you have
that mental space to give upeven though maybe your pockets
are fat, even though maybe you, you have an extra car that
they can borrow, even thoughmaybe , maybe whatever the
resource is, it's limitless oryou have space to give it, if
it's turned into an obligation,it still impacts you. And

(34:01):
that's not reciprocity. It'snever obligatory.

Andre (34:03):
It's not. It's not. It's not.

Anitra (34:04):
And so if you've gotten so casual with that, that
you've forgotten that piece ofit, then you're, you're
probably spending some juice ina different area. Yeah. You can
keep giving them the money.
Absolutely. But you'recomplaining to your spouse.
You're complaining to your bestfriend. I can complain to my
brother about stuff, and prettysoon he'll be like, you ain't
tired yet.

Andre (34:20):
Right. .

Anitra (34:22):
Right . Right. And that's all he says. And that
makes me go back and says, Ineed to get , so then I don't
talk about it anymore. 'causewhat he's saying is, you've
turned whatever you're doinginto an obligation, and now
you're, you're bending my earwhen you clearly know they're
not inclined to contribute. Solet it go. You ain't tired yet,
okay. Until you get tired,. Right .

Andre (34:40):
See, and you're , you're , you're speaking to where our
giving , uh, turns wrong,right? Mm-hmm. .
And, and , and , and there aretwo things you're saying , uh,
is my resources. And there's,and you know, God's giving you
resources, man, God bless you.
But when you're giving of yourresources, turns resentful,
something has happened. Come on. And , and , and here's where

(35:01):
giving is wrong. Giving is avirtue. Right. That's why I
said, God's bless you to give.
It's a virtue. That's good .
The reason why we turnresentful, because giving our
virtue is our virtue is nolonger being protected. That's
good . Right ? My ,

Anitra (35:18):
My , my , my , my .

Andre (35:19):
Yeah . When you're in the right relationship with
someone, they'll protect yourresourcefulness. So it doesn't
turn resentful. That's good .
They'll protect. That's becausethey see it as a virtue. So
they'll protect yourvirtuosity, your generosity,
your energy. When they're nolonger protected in their
efforts, you become resentful.
And if you're in a relationshipwhere you are resentful,

(35:40):
chances are you're not beingprotected in what you are
giving. Your virtue isn't beingprotected. So that moves into
the next question. That's good. Yeah . When do you need to
ask for more? When do you needto turn to the one you're in a
relationship with and say, Hey,you , you gotta give
more. Uh, for you, Nikki , whendoes that happen?

Anitra (36:00):
It goes back to that awareness. And you just said
it, when, when I realize I'mnot being protected, my virtue
isn't being protected. I'm, I'mcarrying the weight on my own,
and I'm wise enough to knowthat I need help. Because for
some of us, you're not evenself-aware enough to know, yes,

Andre (36:15):
Yes.

Anitra (36:16):
That I need help here.
So then you are leaving theperson, you're giving them a
pass because you haven'tstopped to say, wait a minute,
I am caring more than I shouldbe caring . I'm aware that I'm
caring more than I should becarrying . And I need to speak
up about the fact that I needsome, some contribution. I need
some reciprocity here. And soit really, you have to start to
question is, you know, is inthe relationship, is there

(36:36):
empathy? Is there supportmm-hmm . or is
that waiver ?

Andre (36:39):
Is there compassion?

Anitra (36:40):
And is there compassion? And if those things
are wavering, 'cause sometimesit can start that way and then
waver . So if you see itstarting to waver , that's
where you say, Hey, I need alittle more here. Yes. We
started there because sometimeswhen you ask a person to, you
know , to reciprocate or togive more, and they have been
giving in different, you know,in , in earlier uh , instances,
they may say, well, what , whatare you talking about? You

(37:02):
acting like I don't give?
Right. And it's not a , it'snot a , an attack on what's
happening in the past. Whatyou're saying is, in this
moment, in this circumstanceswhere we are right now, I need
a little more. And that's whyrelat the relationship has to
be healthy at the base of it.
Because again, it's notabsolutely equal. And so if
that, you know, thatcompassion, if the
understanding awareness is notthere, if you don't trust that

(37:24):
even in maybe this moment it'sgotten weaker, but it's gonna
get better, you have to speakup because you, you, you know,
you can't just give up all yourvirtue unprotected because it's
gonna take you out. It's gonnacost you in other areas of your
life. So you gotta speak to it.
But what about you, bro ? Bro ?
Yeah,

Andre (37:39):
Yeah. No, you, you actually said it perfectly. Um,
I, you absolutely said itperfectly. I, I, I think there
are times where I've been ingreat relationships where I've
been able to say , um, youknow, I can't give as much as I
need to here. I need you tostep up for me here because
true . Here's where I can givemore. So, so, so reciprocity is

(38:02):
also sacrificial. And we haveto learn. So, so you have to
know when you need to step upmore and do more, and where you
need to ask. But it'ssacrificial. There, there are
so many lessons that we learn ,learn in being able to invest
in a relationship sacrificiallythat that helps with the
relationship of reciprocity. Ithelps both parties grow in the

(38:23):
relationship and grow towardswhatever it is. Whatever your
goal is, whatever your hashtagcouple goal is, we gotta give
sacrificially in order to doit. And , and when we do that,
there's really this kind ofestimation of who we are.
Mm-hmm . in , ina social relationship and who
we, what we bring to the table.
So it's gonna go back to, youknow, investment. And, and

(38:45):
that's also contextual. Soevery single table isn't the
same. So it might not be moneythis time, it may be emotional
support this time, but give it,yeah , yeah . And give it
sacrificially. 'cause both ofy'all are gonna win in the end.
I can't tell you how many timesin a relationship where I'm
listening and I'm not listeningto give knowledge or wisdom,

(39:07):
I'm listening because that'swhat I give. And, and , and
yeah . And , and then that, andthat moment, this person needs
to pour out or they're going toimplode. So I give, yeah. I
give by listening. So, sodon't, don't, again, don't
focus on the five, focus on theI What do you got that you're
investing? What do they havethat they're investing?

(39:28):
Sacrificing is a let's getthrough what we need now
because there's a future focusin this investment that's gonna
be a , a blessing , uh, to bothof us. And so, yeah . So , uh,
you know, just before we gointo the transformational
perspective, you know mm-hmm .
, are there timeswhere you have to honor the
reciprocity even when it'shard? Are there times where you

(39:49):
have to make sure you're givingeven when you don't necessarily
want to give, you know, whatdoes that social behavior look
like? Or, or, or just, and ,and , and let me say this
before I kick it to you .
Mm-hmm . This might be thatpart in the episode
where there's, you know, we'regonna get some comments, some ,
some emails saying, yeah, Iended this relationship. 'cause
I realized that, you know, I ,they weren't giving, I realized

(40:13):
that I needed to end this.
Like, I'm not , look , I'm,listen, I'm all listen, I
realize marriages might endbecause of this. Friendships
might end because of this.
Partnerships may end because ofthis. And you know what I'm
gonna say God knew. And so Iain't gonna put the blame on
myself. God knew, but, but arethere times where you wanna
give up, but you need to honorthe reciprocity and the

(40:35):
relationship even when it'shard? I , I'll kick that to you

Anitra (40:39):
And Dan , this was, was a tricky one when I was trying
to unpack this. Um, and so Icame up with three things that
I think that are importantbecause like you already
mentioned, it's sacrificial.
And a lot of times when we haveto honor even as hard, it's
gonna be sacrificial. Uh, butthe one that I think benefits
everybody no matter what, andthis is really more of an
example of , uh, an of when youshould honor or when, when make

(41:02):
taking this step is a space for, uh, reciprocity, but it's
honored even though it's hard,it's really forgiveness. Um, I
was really thinking about, youknow, when it comes to
forgiveness, it , forgivenessdoesn't require both parties to
participate , but itopens the door for so much more
to that can impact all theparties involved. Yeah . And so

(41:24):
when I was thinking about this,you know, whether the person
I'm choosing to forgiveparticipates or not, it still
opens the door one for me tohave healing and wholeness, but
as a result of that, that'sgood. Then anybody that was,
you know, is directly relatedor indirectly related to it,
they get to see that healingand that wholeness in place,
and it gives space for thatperson then to fess up for

(41:46):
their faults or to see thatthere's a way to get past it
after they do apologize orwhatever the case may be. But
forgiveness is such a greatexample of how you have to
individually choose , uh, tolet something mm-hmm .
mm-hmm .
go , thatprobably hurt you and came from
a really awful space, but indoing so, you actually are
opening up the space forreciprocity. And that does not

(42:07):
mean by any stretch of theimagination that you need to
forgive someone Yeah . Andinvite them back into your
life. That does not mean thatwhat they're, what they've done
is okay. It's, you know, it'snot per se. Right. Right. What
it does mean is that inhonoring this space of
forgiveness, I'm demonstratingmaybe to my family, to my
children, to my friends. I'mopening the space for God to

(42:28):
come and heal and wholeness.
And I am 100% opening up spacefor the future. Because when we
harbor unforgiveness, thenfuture relationships, future
business partnerships, futurefriendships, all of those can
be thwarted and blocked if youdon't let the , you know, if
you don't forgive and let itgo. Because just like bro road
, right ? That's where you getthat taker mindset, right? I've

(42:49):
been burnt in business before,right ? So now I'm gonna be
aggressive in business. I'vebeen burnt , um, in
relationships before, so nowI'm gonna just burn people.
Right? And so forgiveness is aspace of reciprocity that when
you open it up, you literallyopen up not only your own
healing and wholeness, but somany other things for your
future. That's so good. And forthe person that's also , that's

(43:10):
so good . Also connected to it.
And I'm only speaking what I'vehad to work through ,
right? Yeah, yeah. But thepeople, you've heard this
analogy that forgiunforgiveness is like
swallowing poison, right? Andthen you are just killing
yourself. You're keeping it in,and you are the only one that
suffers from it. So that wasone example. I'll give two
others and I'll , I'll kick itback to you. But , um, you
know, honor reciprocity , uh,when it stops unhealthy cycles

(43:32):
or patterns in your life,right? Mm-hmm. ,
if honoring this means I'mgonna stop some unhealthy
cycles or patterns, then I haveto go through how tough it is.
So if giving is creatingunhealthy lifestyle or draining
your life, then you need tostop giving, right? You need to
break that down, right? If, ifhelping my family , um, in a
way that's tough, but I know,you know, it's going to change

(43:55):
the way they behave, it's goingto change , uh, the way that
they walk through life, then Ineed to give in that way. Uh ,
the example that I have is, Iremember when my brother and I
, um, well actually when Andrewas telling mom that you needed
a new start in Florida, and soshe was, yeah . She was sharing
this story with me that at thatpoint in your life, you, I
think you had gotten throughhigh school and now you were

(44:16):
maybe in your first or secondyear or maybe first year in a
community college, but just alot of mm-hmm .
life circumstances had hit you.
And I , it's not my story toshare that. So, you know, I'll
let you share that anothertime. But what happened is now
you had gotten to the spacewhere Wichita had just too many
bad memories for you. Yeah,absolutely . And that's where
you were in life. It just hadtoo many , that's where I was ,
many bad memories. Mm-hmm .

(44:37):
everywhere thatyou looked , uh, you felt like
you needed to , you needed achange. Well, for our mom, you
were her firstborn and nowyou're asking her, Hey, I need
a fresh start in Florida. Ineed to not only move, but I
need to move across the countryto a whole different state.
Right? Right . You're her firstborn , you're her first child.

(44:57):
She doesn't have the resourcesat that moment to just make it
all. Okay. And, you know, makesure that she could buy you a
place and take care of it. Andshe was stressed and worried .
So she calls our grandmotherand our grandmother, who we've
talked about the fact, Iremember this episodes that our
grandmother has , um, you know,she had two children that died.

(45:17):
So my mom was the only one ofher children that survived for,
I think I've talked aboutanother episodes, but, you
know, very difficult, differentand difficult , uh, mindset
about how you protect yourchildren. So she is saying to
our mom, absolutely not. You donot let him move across country
. I remember the country, Iremember that. You do not let
him do that. You don't, youcan't be there to help him. You

(45:37):
can't be there to protect him.
That is a bad decision. Andthat comes from her truth,
right. Of, you know, when wewatch your kids die in her
arms. But what mom knew abouthonoring reciprocity, even when
it's hard, is that my son isnow number one venturing into
manhood. Yes. So while I'm, youknow, a parent, we talked about
this, now I'm moving intocoaching and advisement. Right?

(46:00):
Two, she understood what youneeded was a fresh start.
That's it. And you had selectedthat particular state. So as
much as it broke her heart, asmuch as it terrified her, as
much as it was overwhelming forher, as much as she didn't even
have enough money to put inyour pocket to send you off,
what she said was doing this isgoing to stop an unhealthy

(46:22):
cycle or pattern in his life.
Yeah . And the greater good formy son and our family is to let
him go. Right. Right. And Idon't wanna honor it, but I
know that if I give this, if Isow this into him, it will reap
a harvest. Yeah . And now,years later, his younger sister
went to Florida and had one ofthe best times of her life. He

(46:43):
gets his degrees there, bothhis degrees there. No, two of
two of the three. Right. Two ofthe , two of the two of four.
So much was birthed out of twoof the four. There we go. So
much was birthed out of herhonoring a space that she
understood this is the way thatI can give. Yeah . This is the
way and it hurts. Yeah . And Idon't wanna do it and I don't
wanna send it out. And sothat's the thing is sometimes
it is tough. Sometimes you'redoing something to break a

(47:05):
cycle that's unhealthy, tobreak a pattern, to create a
new pattern that's healthy.
Mm-hmm . . Mm-hmm. . And you gotta
stand flatfooted and do it. Andthe last one I'll say is, you
know, give and honorreciprocity when it helps you
to maintain a clear sense ofself . Yeah . Period. That's
it. Period. I love it.
Absolutely love it . You knowwho you are and if you need to
honor this space , then you doit. I am naturally you do it .

(47:28):
And my brother may not agree,but 99% of the world agrees
that I'm naturally a kindperson.

Andre (47:33):
Yeah . That's

Anitra (47:34):
Not true. And I'm kind . It's so true. Don't
listen to him. . And it, I'm kind often when it hurts.
Right. But I remember talkingto my brother and saying, Ooh ,
bro, bro, I feel like puttinghands dah , dah , dah . Like ,
I had situations that made mefrustrated. And he always would
say, don't you ever let anybodypull you out of your

Andre (47:51):
Character. That's it. I don't care what it is . I don't
care what it is. That's it.

Anitra (47:54):
I don't care what it is. Now, does that mean I get
bullied or pushed over? No,he's not saying that. What he's
saying is there's a way tohonor your authentic, clear
sense of self, but keeping whoyou are while you need to do
what you need to do. Yeah. Andso if whatever you're dealing
with doesn't maintain who youare, then that's not a

(48:16):
situation to honor it. But ifhonoring this, make sure that
you know who you are and youcan maintain that. And it's
tough to do it. You do it. Andthere are times where I
continue to be kind even whenit hurts. But I understand. I
need to let them know thatthey're not going to, I'll say
it this way, then I'll hush.
You are not going to pull meinto your chaos. I'm gonna pull
you into my place .

Andre (48:37):
There you go. There you go. So I'm a , I'm gonna run
through the , uh,transformation perspective,
counterpoint from bottom lineand we'll get to these quick
shots. But um, there , there's,there's honoring and , uh, and
it's for the , the reason youjust so beautifully put and
really honoring even when it'shard, it's really more about,
you said you were going tobring this to the table, you

(48:59):
said, you know, and, and evenwhen it's hard and it will be
hard at times, you still gottahonor that. So I agree with
everything you said, but thenthere are times, and so we're
gonna get in thistransformational perspective
and here's this counterpoint,then there are times where not
giving is actually honoring andtherefore gaining uh mm-hmm
for you when you,when you don't give. And, and ,

(49:22):
and I, I remember , um, goingback to something you said,
reason why I had to, one of thereasons why I needed a fresh
start out of Kansas. I rememberone time I was in high school
and I was , uh, hanging withsome guys from the
neighborhood, a rock boroughneighborhood. And they were in
, and they were gang, they werein a particular gang. And I,

(49:42):
because I played sports withthem, I knew them. There was
this level of affiliation withthem. And I remember one time
they were gonna go to, theywere literally going to fight
another gang. And I happened tobe with them. And so the
question was, one of 'em askedDre , you coming ? And I
remember getting on and ridingwith them and we were, this is

(50:06):
so funny 'cause this is back inthe day, you know, we were, bro
, we ain't had no cars. We wereliterally on the city bus on
our way going to a gang fight.
And I'm dead serious. And, and,but here's the thing. I knew
what I was gonna bring to thetable was what I knew about
fighting. I knew I was headinginto a situation where I wasn't

(50:26):
a part of the gang, but theywere friends. So there was an
affiliation. So in other words,hear me . Well, I wasn't a part
of the table, but I stillwanted to take a seat at the
table because I knew what Icould bring to the table. And I
just remember all of them gotoff. And just before I was
getting ready to get off, oneof them pushed me back on the

(50:49):
door closed and the bus droveoff. And, and when I asked
about that later, I rememberthat person saying to me, this
wasn't for you. You've gotbigger and better things going
on. This wasn't for you. Youdidn't belong here. You're
going to college. And I'msaying this, trying to hold

(51:10):
back a tear . The people I rodethe bus with, none of them are
alive today. None of them. I'mthe only one that's alive that
rode that bus there. And sothere are definitely times
where not giving to a table,'cause you don't belong in that

(51:31):
table, actually gains more foryou. And so you gotta know not
just who to invite to thetable, but what tables don't
belong to you. 'cause you'regoing there to die. You're not
going there to grow. And yougotta be able to say that, no ,
I know I can bring some stuffto the table, but this ain't my
table. This ain't my table. Andso that, that's that

(51:54):
counterpoint to everythingwe're saying as well. Not only
do you need to know who tobring to the table, what to
bring to the table, what toinvest in, how to invest, but
you also need to know when youdon't need to be at that
particular table. Because thebottom line here is that while
we should always have a heartto give, then give your best.
Even when it's hard. We alsoneed to know when and where to

(52:18):
give because we need to knowthat we'll grow in our giving.
But some tables aren't meantfor you to give and some people
aren't meant for you to give.
'cause you don't grow in whenthere's just taking, you don't
grow. Yeah . Just because yousat down at the table, you grow
because there's therelationship of reciprocity.

(52:38):
You grow in it because you satdown at the right table with
the right people, the rightmotive and the right
relationship. So that's, that'skind of like our bottom line
here , uh, as well. Excellent.
Uh , in this particularepisode. Excellent.

Anitra (52:52):
All right , well let's jump right into the quick shot.

Andre (52:57):
Yeah, the quick shot .
So, so, so for this one , uh, Iactually did not, Nikki , you
actually saw this one. But Ben, it tickled me when you sent
it to me, . And we're,we're talking about the right
table, the right time, givingto the right relationship. And
it was this Instagram reel thatyou sent to me, , where
this, this, this father comesto his kid and is like, let me

(53:20):
hold $2 un until tomorrow and II'll get you back tomorrow. And
I love the kid. It is like, nah, this ain't my table. I'm not
fitting to give on it . 'causethe kid responds saying, well
then let's just wait tilltomorrow. , like,
whatever it needs you want,let's just wait till tomorrow.
Like if you , listen ,listen . If you, if you can get
it back to me tomorrow, thenwhatever it is that this table

(53:43):
is, it can wait .

Anitra (53:43):
Just wait , wait tomorrow ,

Andre (53:44):
, it can wait till tomorrow. Then I ain't got
to give you $2 and you'll bealright . Right ? And so I , I
love that. Know the table. Knowyour table. Know when to sit at
the table, know when to bringwhat you got to the table. Some
tables can actually wait tilltomorrow. Uh , and , and it
won't cost you so much anything. So that's, that's my quick

(54:06):
shot for this one. I love thatone. I died laughing when I saw
that one.

Anitra (54:12):
He was so cute. That little boy. So, okay, so for
me, and I was thinking aboutthe quick shot . So I just
wanna throw out a couple ofquick examples that I'll call
gentle ways to remind people orget people to reciprocate
. Right? Okay.

Andre (54:25):
Okay .

Anitra (54:25):
And I'm using air quotes on the gentle .
So, okay . I'm gonna give youan example of a way that you
can remind or encourage someoneto reciprocate. And you let me
know if you think it's a , it'sa viable strategy.

Andre (54:38):
Okay?

Anitra (54:39):
All here's the first one. You can text them cute
animal pictures with a remindertext. It's your turn to wash
the dishes.

Andre (54:49):
That's not no.

Anitra (54:51):
So like a kit that's not dog , like a kitten or like
a , uh, like a , a little teddybear or something.

Andre (54:59):
No, I'm taking you the picture soften of the dishes.
And you here , you hear now youhear now

Anitra (55:05):
You're not gonna use the soft like , you know,
kitten or nah , cud mesomething.

Andre (55:09):
Say forget . No , that, that doesn't need a gentle
reminder. No . That's a youhere right now, straight away
here . Too forth with ,

Anitra (55:19):
All right , here's another one. Convenient people
have actually done this one.
Conveniently leave your walletat home at the next hangout
because you paid the last time.

Andre (55:27):
Oh, you listen, I do that , I do that. I do
, I do that. But because I havemy phone with me and I have
Apple pay, I , I , there we go. I , I do that. You gotta ,
but I , but listen, listen, Ijust, just because I ain't been
, I I'm too old to be diningand dashing, but I absolutely
will leave my wallet home, belike, you know, I , I forgot my
wallet. You got it though, thistime, right? . And just

(55:48):
in case though, I , I'll doApple pay just in case. But no,
I'm with that one. I'mabsolutely with that one .

Anitra (55:54):
. All right , here's another one. Throw them
subtle hints every time you'rearound them. You know, I just
love the relationship of thefather and the daughter on
Yellowstone. You see how muchhe just does things for her .

Andre (56:08):
? Yeah , that's it . My , yeah . Yes, but my
hints are coming from Scarfacegodfather. My . Listen.
Nah , because some people don'tunderstand subtleties. Like
it's

Anitra (56:21):
Be direct .

Andre (56:21):
Some people don't under , yeah . So Paul , you just ,
you just got by . Didn't you,didn't you love the way Hitler
handled that situation? ? Didn't you love the way
Joseph Stalin No. Handled thatsituation. . I gotta
let you know , I I know yougonna have

Anitra (56:37):
Them on the history channel watching all the wars
atrocities, right ?

Andre (56:42):
Listen, I need their neck to start twitching when I
throw a hint. So they'd belike, you know what? I , I I
owe you something. I better getup

Anitra (56:48):
And do that. .
All right ? Um, you overindulgein the items or the things that
they like as a hint. So theysay, oh, I really wanted to eat
some of those potato chips. Andyou go mm-hmm. ,
, right ? So did I ?

Andre (57:04):
Yes, yes. I'm absolutely using that one .

Anitra (57:06):
You gonna drink all their alcohol, eat all their

Andre (57:08):
I , no, I ain't gonna drink at all. I'm gonna leave a
swallow left, right ? I'm gonnaleave a swallow .
That's a , I'm gonna leave acorn . See how that feels?

Anitra (57:15):
That's what I'm see that feels when you don't think
about anybody else, you see howthat feels, right ? ?

Andre (57:20):
That's what I'm leaving . I love it .

Anitra (57:22):
Um , let's do maybe one more here. 'cause we gotta
round this out. Um , okay, howabout this , uh, , ask
a person who owes you money ifyou can borrow some money from
them.

Andre (57:32):
Yes. And then ask them for the exact amount that they
owe you. I'm like, can I borrow$28 and 13 cents? Why is that?
Think about it. Right ?

Anitra (57:42):
Think about it , , after you cash at me.

Andre (57:46):
Think about it. .

Anitra (57:48):
Oh God,

Andre (57:49):
Absolutely.

Anitra (57:49):
I like to the penny. I like it. Okay. And we , okay,
one more. Get a friend or afamily member to ask them to
reciprocate on your behalf.
Andre would really like it if

Andre (58:01):
. Nope .
Nope . Because I don't need yousending a message back through
my friend to family becausethen I'm be mad at them.
. I like I told you notto leave without my money. See
, I'll turn a friend and afamily member to a hitman
. I'll turn into ahitman in a second. And listen,
when you ask them , they'llgive it to you. Take out the
left knee cap , takeout the left knee cap .

Anitra (58:24):
. I love it .

Andre (58:26):
I'm telling you, ,

Anitra (58:28):
I think my strategy is a sticky note. I just put
sticky notes all over thehouse.

Andre (58:33):
No , tied because I , because I will lie. I didn't
see that sticky note, right ?
,

Anitra (58:38):
There'd be 27 of them .
You see none of those. I ain'tsee

Andre (58:41):
That . Like I ain't see that sticky note. Nope . I'm
telling you now me pay me mymoney. $2 to pay me my money.

Anitra (58:51):
I love it. All right, bro . Bro , what do you have
for the final blow?

Andre (58:56):
So, you know, the biggest thing I want, you know,
everyone to gather from this,you know, this conversation is
the, the value that when youbring to the table, when
someone else brings to thetable , we all going , we all
going to go higher in ourvalue. And , and , and how do
you safeguard the relationship?

(59:19):
'cause that's the biggestthing. You , you gotta invest
in somebody. You gotta investin something. And that's how
you see kind of return oninvestment. And, and , and
that's the biggest thing rightthere. What do you give so that
everybody gets more and, andmaking sure that that who you
come to the table with , theygive , uh, as well. Um,
there's, there's, and there'sactually a theological premise

(59:41):
to this. There's a , there's averse I love that hopefully
kind of shares that message. It, it's second Corinthians eight
and 14. It says, at thispresent time, your abundance
being a supply for their need,so that their abundance also
may become a supply for yourneed. That there may be growth
and equality for everybody'sneed . You give to those who

(01:00:04):
willing to give back. Andeverybody gets blessed in the
end, but you can't hold backyour abundance and they can't
hold back their abundance. And, and when my abundance comes
to your abundance, we all get adouble portion of abundance in
the end. So always rock withpeople that understand the
relationship of reciprocity.

(01:00:24):
Always connect with people thatunderstand the, the, you know,
the growth that comes wheneverybody gives what they're
gifted in doing. Stop rockingwith people that don't bring
anything to the table. Stopgoing to tables you weren't
supposed to be at and stopgoing to a table not knowing
what it is that youspecifically give. Always make

(01:00:45):
sure you understand the table,understand your gifts, and
understand the relationship ofthose coming to the table with
you. That, and that is my finalblow .

Anitra (01:00:56):
Fantastic. Fantastic.
All right , well we're gonnaround out this episode. As
always, thank you so much forjoining us. Please help us
build the Savage siblingscommunity, like share, comment,
leave a review, subscribe, sendthis to your favorite Savage
siblings so we can build thisup. And perhaps you have an
example of a healthy orunhealthy example of

(01:01:18):
reciprocity, or you wanna talkabout who should and shouldn't
come to the table. We want tohear about that as well. So
please share that with us. Hugeshout out to our amazing team
of people who make this allpossible. Dwayne McClendon,
Kyle Davis, our sound editors,Ronnie Maxwell of Maxwell
Music, our music producer, max

Andre (01:01:35):
Maxwell Music.

Anitra (01:01:37):
Keith Cross of Kross Photography, the Amazing
Photos. And we're speaking intolegendary cross the
merchandising. And of courseour parents absolutely for
their D n A . All the funnylife lessons and stories that
we're able to share. The

Andre (01:01:49):
Parentals.

Anitra (01:01:50):
And last, and certainly not least, least you, the
listeners. We are so glad thatyou're here and we will see you
next time. Please remember,don't go through life alone.
Take care.

Andre (01:02:00):
Peace, love y'all.