March 3, 2025 • 33 mins
In this episode of the School Can't Experience Podcast, host Leisa Reichelt is joined by Pavlina McMaster, Coordinator at the Home Education Network to shed light on some common myths about Home Education, including:
- Myth #1:Home Education is a last resort
- Myth #2: I have to work so don’t have time to Home Educate
- Myth #3: I’m not smart/educated enough to teach my kids
- Myth #4: Home Education restricts our kids future opportunities
- Myth #5: Home Education kids miss out on social opportunities.
Useful resources:
- Home Education Network (Australia) - https://home-ed.vic.edu.au/
- Victoria Home Schoolers and Unschoolers Facebook Group - https://www.facebook.com/groups/victorianhomeschoolersandunschoolers
- Home Education NSW - https://www.facebook.com/groups/homeeducationnsw
- Home Education QLD Inc. - https://www.facebook.com/groups/homeeducationqldinc
- Home Education Tasmania - https://www.facebook.com/groups/876634649129826
- Home Education WA (HEWA) - https://www.facebook.com/hewapage
- South Australian Home Educators - https://www.facebook.com/groups/southaustralianhomeeducators
- Home Educators Northern Terrritory Facebook Group - https://www.facebook.com/groups/1226268530873997
- Home Education Canberra Facebook Group (ACT) - https://www.facebook.com/groups/165766030185476
Also search for Home Education Facebook groups in your city or local area. There are many!
- School Can’t Australia Facebook Community - https://www.facebook.com/groups/schoolphobiaschoolrefusalaustralia
- Make a donation to School Can’t Australia - https://www.schoolcantaustralia.com.au/get-involved
If you are a parent of carer in Australia and experiencing distress, please call Lifeline on 13 11 14 or contact the Parent Help Line. - https://kidshelpline.com.au/parents/issues/how-parentline-can-help-you
You can contact us to volunteer to share your School Can't story or some feedback via email on schoolcantpodcast@gmail.com
Disclaimer
The content of this podcast is based on personal lived experiences and is shared for informational and storytelling purposes only. It should not be treated as medical, psychological, or professional advice under any circumstances. If you have concerns about your health or well-being, please seek guidance from a doctor, therapist, or other qualified professional.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Leisa Reichelt (00:05):
Hello and welcome to the School Can't
Experience Podcast.
I'm Leisa Reichelt, and thispodcast is brought to you by the
School Can't AustraliaCommunity.
Caring for a young person who isstruggling to attend school can
be a stressful and isolatingexperience, but you are not
alone.
Thousands of parents acrossAustralia and many more around
the world face similarchallenges and experiences every
(00:27):
day.
One topic that comes up for manyof us in the School Can't
community is Home Education.
And today I'm delighted to bespeaking with Pavlina McMaster
who joins us from the HomeEducation Network or HEN.
If you're fortunate enough to bepart of the School Can't
Australia Facebook group, you'reprobably already familiar with
Pavlina because she is in theresharing many resources and lots
(00:50):
of her knowledge, experience,and wisdom on Home Education on
a very regular basis.
And she has a big job on herhands because Home Education is
often very misunderstood byalmost everybody from parents
and our children, teachers, andmany of the other professionals
that we intersect with along ourSchool Can't journey.
So today, Pavlina is joining usto help shed light on some of
(01:13):
the most common myths about HomeEducation.
Let's get started, shall we?
Pavlina, can you tell me alittle bit about yourself and
your journey into what you'redoing today?
Pavlina (01:26):
Sure, so I'm a volunteer for the Home Education
Network.
We came into Home Educationtwelve years ago when my first
child started prep and it didn'twork for him at all.
So, he was a School Can't kidand we pulled him out.
We came to Home Ed 12 years ago,quite traumatized from the
(01:48):
school system and carrying a lotof baggage.
We've shed that baggage and myeldest is now almost 18.
And my younger one was a KinderCan't kid.
And we pulled her out because wewere Home Educating her brother
by then anyway.
So yeah, we just started HomeEducating her from the start.
(02:10):
She never went to school.
Leisa Reichelt (02:12):
Tell me about the Home Education Network.
Who is it?
What does it do?
Pavlina (02:16):
So we're a not-for-profit organisation.
We're Australia-wide.
We're run entirely byvolunteers, so we don't have any
paid staff.
And all of us have livedexperience of Home Educating
from babies all the way throughto teens and beyond.
And most of us have livedexperience of disability,
(02:36):
neurodivergence.
So our main functions aresupporting home educating
families, advocating for parentsand children, educating new Home
Educators and prospective HomeEducators, professionals,
general public, educationdepartments.
We build community and we buildconnections in the Home Ed
community.
We run camps and excursions andassist pretty much anyone
(02:59):
interested in Home Education.
Leisa Reichelt (03:00):
Amazing.
Excellent.
Well, looking forward to talkinga lot about it today.
I am noticing that you are usingthe term Home Education rather
than homeschooling.
Pavlina (03:08):
Yes.
Leisa Reichelt (03:08):
Do you wanna talk about why that terminology
matters?
Pavlina (03:12):
Sure.
So the idea of schooling is moreabout, you know, that, uh,
opening up someone's head andputting information in.
And it's also, it also hasconnotations about it happening
in four walls.
And it's not about schooling,it's about education, it's about
learning and you know, joy andlifelong learning and those
(03:35):
sorts of things.
And so it's about becomingeducated, not becoming schooled.
So there's a bit of adifference.
Leisa Reichelt (03:41):
Not about taking the recipe, the formula of what
happens at school andtransporting it into the home
environment.
Pavlina (03:47):
Exactly.
Leisa Reichelt (03:49):
We talked earlier about the level of
misunderstanding that peoplehave about Home Education, what
they think it is, what theythink needs to happen in order
to do it, And we thought thatmaybe coming in and busting some
Home Education myths would be agood place to start today.
So let's start with our veryfirst myth that we picked out,
(04:12):
which is, this idea that HomeEducation is the last resort
when everything else fails,
Pavlina (04:18):
Yeah.
You've tried everything else.
If nothing else works, then youHome Educate.
Leisa Reichelt (04:23):
Why is that untrue?
Pavlina (04:25):
Oh, look, I wish I'd never sent my kids to school.
While the school system serves apurpose and it's an educational
option that people can take HomeEducation, I feel from the start
would've given my kid thatcontinuation of the joy of
learning that was very muchinterrupted by the introduction
(04:48):
of the school system.
We don't consider Home Educationas an option early enough for a
lot of kids who are struggling.
And there is nothing wrong withsending a kid off to school and
at the first sign of troubleturning around and saying, you
know what?
This isn't working.
Because what we see so much ofthe time is it's not working and
(05:08):
it's not working for a longperiod of time.
And the longer it's not working,the more, um, decompression time
those kids need.
The more trauma they'recarrying, the more, their
self-concept has been harmed alot of the time.
And you've gotta unravel that.
(05:28):
You then gotta undo all of thosethings and give that kid time to
heal.
Before they can reengage inlearning.
And a lot of the time we alsosee kids coming out and saying,
I hate reading, or I hatelearning, or, you know, there's
nothing there for me.
Because, they've been in asystem that hasn't been set up
(05:51):
for them.
And doesn't match the way thatthey learn best.
And they haven't had theopportunity to spread their
wings and try out the thingsthat they're really good at.
A lot of the time they areSchool Can't because the school
system has been asking things ofthem that they're not able to
give and that are very focusedon their challenges and on
(06:14):
things that they find reallyhard.
If they equate school withlearning and education, then
there's a lot of rejection ofthat and a lot of rejection of
the idea of learning andanything that you know might be
"educational".
And so if we leave it and leaveit and leave it and leave it and
leave it and try, you know, andwe tried this school and we
(06:35):
tried that school and we triedthis teacher and that teacher
you can have the mostsupportive, well-meaning adults
in that child's life, in thatsystem.
And you can have all thesupports in place, but it might
still not work.
Home Education is an amazingoption for so many kids and it
can offer them so much.
(06:56):
And so taking that optionearlier in the long run is
easier on parents.
It's easier on kids.
We did a big survey back in 2022with the Senate inquiry and we
found that the longer peopleleft it, the more trauma
everybody had in the wholefamily.
There was so much stress inthose families.
98% of people said that therewas major stress and strife in
(07:20):
their household, and that's noway for anybody to live.
You know, that child, theirsiblings, the parents, it's not
conducive to a, chilled out lifewhere you're enjoying what you
are doing and you're lovinglearning.
Pavlina,
Leisa Reichelt (07:34):
My observation is that very few professionals
will recommend to a parent thatthey should consider home
education would you agree withthat observation and why you
think that is?
Pavlina (07:47):
Absolutely a hundred percent.
Through our survey, we foundthat a very large proportion of
people, it was something like 60or 70% did not have supportive
professionals in their life.
And everyone was saying to them,you know, professionals, but
then also family and friendswere saying, no, don't do it.
Don't do it.
You know, it's going to ruintheir life.
(08:08):
They're not gonna haveopportunities.
And I think a lot of thatnegativity is, is grounded in
myths and it's grounded inmisunderstanding.
And it's grounded in believingthat the only way to get an
education is inside those fourwalls and that you can't do it
outside.
And I always say to people,dude, have you learned anything
(08:28):
since you've left school?
Leisa Reichelt (08:30):
Mm Amazing.
If you have got a, a child who'snot currently flourishing in
their education environment whatare the kinds of things that
might be indicators that theywould be well suited to Home
Education?
Pavlina (08:47):
I want to say that any child is suited to Home
Education because Home Educationat its core is child centered
and you are focused on the needsof that child.
So you are parenting andeducating the child in front of
you.
You are thinking about what theyneed in terms of emotionally,
(09:10):
physically, those sorts ofthings, but you're also thinking
about how does that child learnbest?
Do they learn best by hands-ondoing things?
Do they learn best by reading orlistening to things?
What are they naturally drawnto?
Do they like watching YouTubevideos or do they like to go to
the library and borrow a book?
And that's your answer about howthat kid likes to consume
information.
And then you think about whatdoes that child enjoy?
(09:33):
What do they love?
What lights their fire?
What gets their motor revving,what are they really excited
about?
If they were to get up in themorning and do anything they
could and they were able tofollow that, what would they do?
And so because it's so childcentered, it's suited to any
child.
And having said that, someparents find it difficult to get
(09:55):
their head around how it couldbe suited to them.
Leisa Reichelt (09:59):
That was exactly my next two myths are both kind
of parent-related myths.
Pavlina (10:03):
Yeah.
Leisa Reichelt (10:04):
So our first one was...
I have to work.
I'm busy.
I don't have time to do HomeEducation.
That's something that, I mean, alot of parents who have got
School Can't kids are already ina really sticky situation a lot
of the time in terms of of work.
What do we do in that situation?
Pavlina (10:23):
The first thing I would say is if you have a School
Can't kid, your work situationis already tricky, right?
And it's unpredictable.
I would suggest to you that HomeEducation brings in some
predictability because you canactually plan.
You can make a plan about howthis is gonna work and what it's
(10:46):
gonna look like for every familyis very different.
You know, does Johnny go toGrandma's on Monday, Wednesdays,
and Fridays and do gardening andcooking with her and, you know,
building in the shed with her,you know, building bird houses,
possum boxes, nesting boxes orsomething.
Does it look like, Mum works outof home Monday through to
(11:12):
Wednesday, and Dad works out ofhome Thursday to Saturday.
Does it look like, you share itwith a, with a family that you
know who's also Home Educating.
You know, you take their kidsone day a week, they take your
kids one day a week, Does itlook like working nights?
People have moved from a moreaffluent suburb to a less
(11:34):
affluent suburb and downsized.
We grow a lot of our own food.
You learn how to reduce yourspending.
You drive a hatchback instead ofa fancy car.
There's lots of ways of makingit work.
It's about figuring out how itcan work for you, but again, it
becomes more predictable.
If you can work from home,great.
(11:55):
You know, if you can think ofsomething to do from home,
that's fantastic too.
So there's ways around,
Leisa Reichelt (12:02):
So it might be fair to say that if you have got
a big demanding full-time jobthat requires you to be in the
office and traveling all thetime, not work unless you've got
Pavlina (12:13):
Oh,
Leisa Reichelt (12:13):
village around you to
Pavlina (12:14):
you need a village?
Yeah, you do.
Unless you can take your kidwith you when you are traveling.
Leisa Reichelt (12:21):
I kind of say from personal experience, I had
one of those
Pavlina (12:23):
Yes.
Leisa Reichelt (12:24):
School Can't it like impossible to manage
really.
Pavlina (12:28):
But if you did and you were traveling, then that would
be a predictable thing, right?
You could keep that job and makeit work.
I know a dad, for example, hetakes his kid to work who's six
and the six year old has a job.
He has a little name tag and hedoes jobs.
He stuffs envelopes, Carriesmail around, he his own little
(12:49):
computer and types away at hisown things while he is at work
with Dad.
And he's part of thatenvironment.
They make it work because he'sthere, he's learning at the same
time.
You know, he's learning his ownthings on his own computer, or
he's writing his own stories, orhe's doing whatever.
And then he's also part of thatenvironment and he's happy in
that environment because hefeels safe and he knows the
(13:11):
people and his Dad's rightthere.
So it doesn't have to look likewhat we already know.
work and life to look like.
Leisa Reichelt (13:21):
Okay.
So we just need a lot moreflexibility in terms of how we
think fitting Home Educationinto our work and also how we
fit
Pavlina (13:28):
that's right.
Leisa Reichelt (13:30):
around our understanding of education,
Pavlina (13:31):
Yes, exactly.
Because Home Education is notsitting down doing book work
Leisa Reichelt (13:35):
Okay, Okay, well that kind of is a good
transition to our next myth,
Pavlina (13:39):
Yes.
Oh, excellent.
Leisa Reichelt (13:41):
you know, a lot of parents are like, I would be
one of them.
I look at the maths that my sonis doing and I'm like, there's
no way I could teach him how todo that maths.
Pavlina (13:49):
Yeah.
Leisa Reichelt (13:50):
so therefore, how could I possibly Home
Educate him when I can't helphim with the work that he is
doing now, let alone what he isgoing to be doing in a year or
two years or more.
Pavlina (13:59):
Yeah, so a parent's role is not a teacher.
You're not the sage on the stagewho knows all the things and can
teach all the things.
Sometimes we are learningalongside our kids and we help
each other with things, youknow?
I'm like, oh yeah.
I reckon you do that.
And then they can look at it andgo, Hmm, I don't think you're
right about that.
And then you reassess.
Right?
So you are also you're modeling.
How do you learn something thatyou don't know?
(14:20):
You know, you find resourcetogether.
You are a facilitator.
You can find a class, you canhelp them find a mentor.
You can help them find a websiteor a YouTuber or books however
it is that they want to learn.
But the other point too, is thatthey don't have to do all the
things.
They don't have to do calculus.
If they want to be a graphicartist, there is no point in
(14:47):
worrying about the things thatthey can't do right now or that
they are really resistant to.
You know, if that kid wants tobecome a pilot down the track,
they can do the P to 12curriculum.
They can cover that in six weeksor six months when they're
engaged, when they'repassionate.
And there's plenty of exampleswhere Home Ed kids have done
that.
(15:08):
It's about learning,investigation skills and
learning critical thinkingskills and learning how to
research and, you know, how doyou gather new skills, teaching
our kids to do that andempowering our children to do
that because those are theskills that they're gonna need
moving forward through the 21stcentury.
Leisa Reichelt (15:28):
What about the administrative side of this.
Pavlina (15:31):
Mm-hmm
Leisa Reichelt (15:32):
think that's the other thing that can be pretty
overwhelming as a parent lookingat this going, okay, well if
it's a school thing, all I knowis I just have to get my kid to
go to school for X amount oftime.
If I was going to take onhomeschooling, I understand
there's a whole lot of stuffthat has to be done to make that
change and to sort ofdemonstrate that the learning is
happening.
Pavlina (15:52):
Okay.
Leisa Reichelt (15:52):
What's, how do we get our heads
Pavlina (15:54):
around that?
Most states you don't actuallyhave to prove that the kids are
learning.
Most states, you have todemonstrate that you are
providing learningopportunities.
There are a few states where,you do have to show progress.
We're actually putting moredetailed guides on our website
as we speak.
It really depends on your state.
(16:15):
There's a lot of assistance outthere.
So we've got some good summarieson our website, but also I would
strongly encourage people tojoin their state-based Facebook
group.
So for example, in Victoriawe've got, Victorian
Homeschoolers and UnschoolersGroup.
In Queensland we recommend HEQ,so Home Education Queensland.
(16:37):
In New South Wales, HomeEducation New South Wales, in WA
there's HEWA, the, you know,Home Education, Western
Australia, every single statehas their own group where
parents have set it up, they runit, and they are the single best
source of information forregistering and for help with
those sorts of things.
Ask your questions in thosebecause they, they're a gold
(16:59):
mine.
Fantastic.
Leisa Reichelt (17:00):
We will put links in our notes to go with
this episode to the variousplaces that you can go to get in
touch with all of thosecommunities.
That's, that's fantastic.
You've talked about like how,this difference between, you
don't have to learn calculus,you just have to like learn
about learning and you know, goand stuff envelopes at Dad's
office and watch YouTube videosand all of those kinds of
(17:21):
things.
That kind of leads me a littlebit, sort of to the next myth,
right?
Which is, I think people have anidea that kids who are Home
Educated are very restricted interms of what their future could
look like, right?
They're gonna be lesssuccessful, they're less likely
to get into uni or get into likefancy jobs and all of that kind
of thing.
How would you respond to thatmyth?
Pavlina (17:43):
Okay, so Home Ed kids can do whatever they want at the
end of the day, like they areable to get into any uni course
that they want to.
Not that uni is, the be all andend all.
But, Home Ed actually gives kidsa great opportunity to explore
what they love and to explorewhat they're good at.
If something doesn't comenaturally to me and I'm not
particularly interested in it,there's no point in me doing a
(18:04):
uni course on it, because that'snot gonna give my career
longevity anyway.
I'm not gonna be passionateabout it.
So, Home Ed kids have a lot ofspace and time to figure out
what they excel at and what theylove.
A lot of Home Ed kids willactually develop businesses
while they're being HomeEducated.
It could be like a flower farm,it could be You know, whatever.
It could be lawn mowingbusiness.
It could be any number of thingsthat they set up that also give
(18:28):
them budgeting skills.
It gives them business planningand management skills, gives
them a whole lot of skills thatthey might not get the
opportunity to developotherwise.
They can do early entry to uni.
They can do TAFE coursesdepending on what state from
quite early, um.
They can get into uni on earlyentries.
(18:49):
So the way you get into uni as aHome Educated kid, there's lots
of different ways and it's gonnadepend on your course.
So you'd go to the uni, you'dsay, I'm interested in doing
this course.
Explain to me how, how matureage student would get into this
course.
Because the majority of peoplewho go to university every year
actually do not have an ATAR.
They actually go as mature agestudents or alternate pathways.
(19:13):
So that might be, go and do acert course, you know, diploma
at TAFE.
It might be doing some openuniversity subjects, and then
submitting your scores forthose.
It might be an entrance exam ora bridging course, it might be a
portfolio, especially if you'retalking about fine arts.
So it really depends on whatthey wanna do.
Leisa Reichelt (19:34):
Presumably in the course of doing Home
Education, you're not having todo like structured academic
essays, right?
And then you'll land inuniversity and have to do all of
that kind of thing there.
I imagine that there's a,there's an argument that says if
you are Home Educated and youwill ultimately land in
university that and has a veryparticular way that they want
things done.
Does that cause issues?
Pavlina (19:55):
No, because those are skills that you can learn while
you are there for a start.
There are a lot of kids who comeoutta school without those
skills.
Effectively, there are learningcenters at universities and
TAFES which support kids todevelop those skills, but also
there's this myth that you needto be, writing all these essays
(20:17):
in order to be able to write agood essay.
No, you just need to have readplenty of essays or reports or
whatever it is, and those skillsare so transferable.
Our brains are pretty amazing.
You know, they notice patternsin how things work, and we
internalize a lot of thosestructures, and then it's a lot
(20:38):
easier for us to perform thoseskills.
And apart from anything else, alot of Home Ed kids do those
things anyway.
A lot of Home Ed kids love towrite their own stories or their
own essays.
One of my kids, for example,wanted to write a scientific
report, and so he just did it.
He just wanted to do it for funbecause it was play for him.
(20:59):
They're doing all these thingsalready, and if they haven't,
then that's fine because thoseskills, when their brains are
more mature and more developedand more ready and more able to
do it, and they're alsointerested in it and it becomes
relevant to them, they can learnthose skills very fast when they
have this foundation.
And the foundation is language,which they get a lot of because
(21:21):
there's a lot of talking withparents, especially in Home
Education.
Leisa Reichelt (21:27):
Yeah, your point about the fact that there's no
guarantee coming out of schoolthat you're gonna do well at
university is, is one welltaken.
I did really well, in highschool and then went to do my
undergraduate degree and justdid terribly so badly when I
first landed there and kind ofbasically had to relearn how to
write all over again.
Pavlina (21:45):
And also, let's not forget that what the
expectations are, are veryindividual to a specific
lecturer.
Forget a course.
I mean, I've done a lot of uniand every single person wants
something done differently, soit's about being flexible and
adaptable and being able tounderstand the requirements
(22:05):
rather than being able to do itin a specific set way.
Leisa Reichelt (22:11):
Let's talk about the other thing that people
consider when they think aboutthe future for Home Educated
children.
I think there's a whole subjectarea around socialization, this
kind of notion that homeschooledkids sit at home by themselves.
Pavlina (22:26):
Mm.
Leisa Reichelt (22:27):
Weaving,
Pavlina (22:28):
In.
Leisa Reichelt (22:30):
hopefully not locked into cupboard, but you
know, not necessarily developingthose kind of social skills that
you would get in the schoolenvironment, and that this might
mean that they don't end uphaving friendships as they
progress through life, that theymight not be well prepared for
the challenging social dynamicof the workplace.
What can you tell us about that?
Pavlina (22:51):
A lot of school kids come out of school without good
friendships but I'm also goingto put it to you that Home Ed
kids actually end up with betterrelationships, especially for
neurodivergent kids.
They don't have to put up withbullying.
They are around people who arefar more accepting of
(23:13):
difference.
Home Education is actually verysocial.
It happens in each other'shouses, on excursions, on camps,
in classes, depending on howyour kid wants to engage.
The extent to which your kidwants to engage.
In co-ops, run by parents wherethey get together once a week
and everybody runs a differentactivity.
(23:35):
It happens in homeschool groupsand Home Ed groups, it happens
in the community and those kidsare far more confident generally
talking to adults.
In advocating for themselves andin being able to make friends
with a very broad range ofpeople.
Because you know, you'll go tothis camp and you'll meet these
(23:56):
people and you'll make friendswith them and you spend a lot of
hours with them.
So you get to start cementingthose relationships and then you
go to another camp or anotherclass and you meet other people
and you know, they're from alldifferent walks of life.
And with all differentcommunication styles, and you
are practicing all those skills,you know, you're not stuck in
the one school environment withthe same group of people all the
(24:20):
time.
You are communicating withpeople who are older than you
and younger than you.
I'm 49.
I have some friends who are 49,but most of them are very
different ages.
So it's a far more real lifesituation to be Home Educated
and be in the community than itis to be in a school environment
(24:41):
where you've got limited contactwith other people.
A lot of School Can't kids comeout of school unable to interact
and unable to leave the houseand hiding under their doona
because the world is just sooverwhelming and so traumatic
and so scary.
And for those kids.
social interaction might looklike after a few months, when
(25:04):
they're able to communicate.
For a start, it'll be their safepeople.
It'll be Mum or and or Dad.
It'll be siblings potentially.
It might be a couple of cousinsor friends or whatever.
But a lot of it will be onlineto start with.
And don't discount onlinefriends'cause they're super
important as well, and just asvaluable as in-person friends.
(25:28):
Social doesn't have to look thesame for everybody.
And some kids are seriouslysocial.
One of my kids is super socialand the other one is like, I
have these friends and deepexcellent relationships with
them and I'm happy with that.
I don't need to go and talk to,10,000 people like my sibling
does.
(25:48):
I'm quite happy with my group.
One loves parties.
The other one No thanks, andthat's fine.
That's part of normal humanvariation.
You know, the socialisation mythis a myth.
Leisa Reichelt (26:03):
Yeah.
It sounds as though there's awhole lot of activity and
connection that's
Pavlina (26:08):
Yes.
Leisa Reichelt (26:08):
in Home Education that the majority of
folk who haven't dipped theirtoe in there might not even know
is going on.
Pavlina (26:14):
Yeah.
And it's a very big, vibrantcommunity and lots of variety in
there.
And you know, if you don't findyour tribe, that's fine.
Just keep looking.
They're out there.
Leisa Reichelt (26:25):
Amazing.
We've talked about some of themyths that predominantly sort of
parents maybe other otherprofessionals might have about
Home Education.
I suspect a lot of kids alsohave bought into some myths as
well.
I know that, certainly for myson when I go, Hey, what about
we do Home Education?
(26:45):
He's like, no, no.
As though it's a terrible thing.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, I think he's like, I'm notgonna be stuck with my Mum
trying to teach me maths.
Pavlina (26:53):
Yeah,
Leisa Reichelt (26:54):
How do we help to debunk some of these myths
for these kids who couldprobably benefit from this, but
are initially really resistant?
Pavlina (27:00):
Well resistant because you know, I mean, for a start
it's an unknown.
Leisa Reichelt (27:04):
Mm.
Pavlina (27:04):
There aren't movies and TV series with all these Home
Educated kids running around.
You know, there's so many mythsaround Home Education that are
also perpetuated in the media.
On TV, you know, you'll have theweirdo who's Home Educated in a
TV series, and there's a lot ofperpetuation of those myths.
(27:27):
Part of what doesn't help too,is the messages that kids get
intentionally andunintentionally from media and
the, and the school systemespecially about, if you don't
finish school, you'll be afailure.
You know, the words and theterminology we use are really
powerful.
You know, high school dropout,that's a big one, and it's so
(27:51):
commonly used.
And there's stigma associatedwith leaving school because
everybody wants us to finishschool because, you know, a
society status quo is thatthat's the only way to get an
education.
And there's so many other waysto get an education and I think
(28:11):
perhaps normalizing that andtalking about, you know, what
are our deep seated fears?
What are our deep seatedconcerns?
And, you know, if a parent can'tanswer those, that's fine.
Just find someone who can, youknow, if your kid says to you,
I'm really worried, I wanna doarchitecture how can I possibly
(28:34):
get into uni and do architectureif I'm Home Educated.
I can't do that.
If you don't know the answer tothat question, then you, you go
onto the, there's a, there's agreat, Home Ed group on
Facebook, um, careers andfurther education or something.
You ask in there.
(28:55):
'Anybody's kid donearchitecture?' And people say to
you, yeah, great.
Go get them onto doing some CADor learning blender or whatever
and do this and this all of asudden that kid who's reluctant
to leave school perhaps might beless reluctant because they can
also now see that, hey, you knowwhat, I can do work experience
and I could do one day of workexperience every week for the
(29:17):
whole year with an architect.
Which is an opportunity theydon't get at school, you know?
So it's also about, you know,dude, there's opportunities,
there are actually bigopportunities when you are Home
Educated that you don't get whenyou're at school.
It's not about less opportunity,it's about different
opportunity.
And a lot of the time it's aboutmore opportunity.
Leisa Reichelt (29:38):
Amazing.
Fantastic.
That's very inspiring.
Um.
Pavlina, if Uh, somebody who islistening thinking about whether
Home Education might be theright pathway for them and their
family.
where to get started?
Pavlina (29:55):
Where to get started.
It really depends on theindividual and how they like to
learn.
You know, if they like to learnfrom other people, I would
encourage them to find theirlocal Home Ed group and go along
and ask questions.
Maybe find a few different ones.
Join some Facebook groups, askquestions in there.
(30:16):
We have people all the timejoining our Facebook group who
are thinking about Home Ed andjust wanna look around, see what
the community's like, find outabout local groups and
opportunities.
Our website has a whole lot ofinformation on it.
So we've got videos on there.
We've got a list of our upcomingwebinars.
That's a great way to learnabout it, especially if you have
(30:39):
kids who are experiencing SchoolCan't.
They can also email us, have achat by email.
We can point them to resources.
Leisa Reichelt (30:47):
Okay, so first up the HEN website and we will
make sure there's a link forthat in the notes with this
episode as well.
Alright Pavlina, anything thatyou think people desperately
need to know about HomeEducation that we haven't
covered?
Pavlina (31:00):
Look, it's great.
You know, it's a way of life andso many people, within a year of
that kid, you know, once thatkid's decompressed and is no
longer so stressed, they, theysay, I have my child back.
I don't remember them being sohappy.
I don't remember them, you know,laughing like this for the last
(31:20):
two, three years.
They realized that was missingfrom their child's life.
It's life changing and lifesaving too for some kids.
So give it a try.
And you know what, if it doesn'tsuit you, you can always go
back, you know?
Leisa Reichelt (31:36):
Absolutely.
Yeah.
It's not a one way door is it?
Amazing.
All right, well thank you so, somuch for sharing your time and
all of your knowledge with ustoday.
We really appreciate it and I'msure we'll talk with you again
soon.
Pavlina (31:49):
Lovely.
Thank you.
Thanks so much for having us..
Leisa Reichelt (31:52):
Okay, well I hope you found that a bit
insightful and inspiring and youdiscovered something new about
Home Education today.
I want to recognise that many ofus in the School Can't community
have tried Home Education andit's not worked out, for many
reasons.
This does not mean that you oryour young people are failures.
We are going to be sharing allkinds of experiences with Home
Education in the future on thispodcast, and we would welcome
(32:14):
you to share your experience aswell.
You'll find the links to HEN,the Home Education Network, as
well as many of the Facebookgroups that Pavlina mentioned in
the notes that go along withthis episode.
We've also added a link to theSchool Can't Australia
community, and there's a placefor you to share your feedback
on this podcast or maybe evenvolunteer to share your own
School Can't experience on afuture podcast episode.
(32:35):
We would love to hear from you.
If you are a parent or carer inAustralia and you're feeling
distressed, remember you canalways call the Parent Helpline
in your state.
A link with the number to callis in the show notes.
And finally, please considerdonating to School Can't
Australia.
Your tax deductible donationsassist us to raise community
(32:56):
awareness, to partner withresearchers, and to produce
resources like webinars and thisvery podcast to assist people
who are supporting children andyoung people experiencing School
Can't.
Thanks again for listening andwe'll talk again soon.
Take care.
Hello and welcome to the School Can't
Experience Podcast.
I'm Leisa Reichelt, and thispodcast is brought to you by the
School Can't AustraliaCommunity.
Caring for a young person who isstruggling to attend school can
be a stressful and isolatingexperience, but you are not
alone.
Thousands of parents acrossAustralia and many more around
the world face similarchallenges and experiences every
(00:27):
day.
One topic that comes up for manyof us in the School Can't
community is Home Education.
And today I'm delighted to bespeaking with Pavlina McMaster
who joins us from the HomeEducation Network or HEN.
If you're fortunate enough to bepart of the School Can't
Australia Facebook group, you'reprobably already familiar with
Pavlina because she is in theresharing many resources and lots
(00:50):
of her knowledge, experience,and wisdom on Home Education on
a very regular basis.
And she has a big job on herhands because Home Education is
often very misunderstood byalmost everybody from parents
and our children, teachers, andmany of the other professionals
that we intersect with along ourSchool Can't journey.
So today, Pavlina is joining usto help shed light on some of
(01:13):
the most common myths about HomeEducation.
Let's get started, shall we?
Pavlina, can you tell me alittle bit about yourself and
your journey into what you'redoing today?
Pavlina (01:26):
Sure, so I'm a volunteer for the Home Education
Network.
We came into Home Educationtwelve years ago when my first
child started prep and it didn'twork for him at all.
So, he was a School Can't kidand we pulled him out.
We came to Home Ed 12 years ago,quite traumatized from the
(01:48):
school system and carrying a lotof baggage.
We've shed that baggage and myeldest is now almost 18.
And my younger one was a KinderCan't kid.
And we pulled her out because wewere Home Educating her brother
by then anyway.
So yeah, we just started HomeEducating her from the start.
(02:10):
She never went to school.
Leisa Reichelt (02:12):
Tell me about the Home Education Network.
Who is it?
What does it do?
Pavlina (02:16):
So we're a not-for-profit organisation.
We're Australia-wide.
We're run entirely byvolunteers, so we don't have any
paid staff.
And all of us have livedexperience of Home Educating
from babies all the way throughto teens and beyond.
And most of us have livedexperience of disability,
(02:36):
neurodivergence.
So our main functions aresupporting home educating
families, advocating for parentsand children, educating new Home
Educators and prospective HomeEducators, professionals,
general public, educationdepartments.
We build community and we buildconnections in the Home Ed
community.
We run camps and excursions andassist pretty much anyone
(02:59):
interested in Home Education.
Leisa Reichelt (03:00):
Amazing.
Excellent.
Well, looking forward to talkinga lot about it today.
I am noticing that you are usingthe term Home Education rather
than homeschooling.
Pavlina (03:08):
Yes.
Leisa Reichelt (03:08):
Do you wanna talk about why that terminology
matters?
Pavlina (03:12):
Sure.
So the idea of schooling is moreabout, you know, that, uh,
opening up someone's head andputting information in.
And it's also, it also hasconnotations about it happening
in four walls.
And it's not about schooling,it's about education, it's about
learning and you know, joy andlifelong learning and those
(03:35):
sorts of things.
And so it's about becomingeducated, not becoming schooled.
So there's a bit of adifference.
Leisa Reichelt (03:41):
Not about taking the recipe, the formula of what
happens at school andtransporting it into the home
environment.
Pavlina (03:47):
Exactly.
Leisa Reichelt (03:49):
We talked earlier about the level of
misunderstanding that peoplehave about Home Education, what
they think it is, what theythink needs to happen in order
to do it, And we thought thatmaybe coming in and busting some
Home Education myths would be agood place to start today.
So let's start with our veryfirst myth that we picked out,
(04:12):
which is, this idea that HomeEducation is the last resort
when everything else fails,
Pavlina (04:18):
Yeah.
You've tried everything else.
If nothing else works, then youHome Educate.
Leisa Reichelt (04:23):
Why is that untrue?
Pavlina (04:25):
Oh, look, I wish I'd never sent my kids to school.
While the school system serves apurpose and it's an educational
option that people can take HomeEducation, I feel from the start
would've given my kid thatcontinuation of the joy of
learning that was very muchinterrupted by the introduction
(04:48):
of the school system.
We don't consider Home Educationas an option early enough for a
lot of kids who are struggling.
And there is nothing wrong withsending a kid off to school and
at the first sign of troubleturning around and saying, you
know what?
This isn't working.
Because what we see so much ofthe time is it's not working and
(05:08):
it's not working for a longperiod of time.
And the longer it's not working,the more, um, decompression time
those kids need.
The more trauma they'recarrying, the more, their
self-concept has been harmed alot of the time.
And you've gotta unravel that.
(05:28):
You then gotta undo all of thosethings and give that kid time to
heal.
Before they can reengage inlearning.
And a lot of the time we alsosee kids coming out and saying,
I hate reading, or I hatelearning, or, you know, there's
nothing there for me.
Because, they've been in asystem that hasn't been set up
(05:51):
for them.
And doesn't match the way thatthey learn best.
And they haven't had theopportunity to spread their
wings and try out the thingsthat they're really good at.
A lot of the time they areSchool Can't because the school
system has been asking things ofthem that they're not able to
give and that are very focusedon their challenges and on
(06:14):
things that they find reallyhard.
If they equate school withlearning and education, then
there's a lot of rejection ofthat and a lot of rejection of
the idea of learning andanything that you know might be
"educational".
And so if we leave it and leaveit and leave it and leave it and
leave it and try, you know, andwe tried this school and we
(06:35):
tried that school and we triedthis teacher and that teacher
you can have the mostsupportive, well-meaning adults
in that child's life, in thatsystem.
And you can have all thesupports in place, but it might
still not work.
Home Education is an amazingoption for so many kids and it
can offer them so much.
(06:56):
And so taking that optionearlier in the long run is
easier on parents.
It's easier on kids.
We did a big survey back in 2022with the Senate inquiry and we
found that the longer peopleleft it, the more trauma
everybody had in the wholefamily.
There was so much stress inthose families.
98% of people said that therewas major stress and strife in
(07:20):
their household, and that's noway for anybody to live.
You know, that child, theirsiblings, the parents, it's not
conducive to a, chilled out lifewhere you're enjoying what you
are doing and you're lovinglearning.
Pavlina,
Leisa Reichelt (07:34):
My observation is that very few professionals
will recommend to a parent thatthey should consider home
education would you agree withthat observation and why you
think that is?
Pavlina (07:47):
Absolutely a hundred percent.
Through our survey, we foundthat a very large proportion of
people, it was something like 60or 70% did not have supportive
professionals in their life.
And everyone was saying to them,you know, professionals, but
then also family and friendswere saying, no, don't do it.
Don't do it.
You know, it's going to ruintheir life.
(08:08):
They're not gonna haveopportunities.
And I think a lot of thatnegativity is, is grounded in
myths and it's grounded inmisunderstanding.
And it's grounded in believingthat the only way to get an
education is inside those fourwalls and that you can't do it
outside.
And I always say to people,dude, have you learned anything
(08:28):
since you've left school?
Leisa Reichelt (08:30):
Mm Amazing.
If you have got a, a child who'snot currently flourishing in
their education environment whatare the kinds of things that
might be indicators that theywould be well suited to Home
Education?
Pavlina (08:47):
I want to say that any child is suited to Home
Education because Home Educationat its core is child centered
and you are focused on the needsof that child.
So you are parenting andeducating the child in front of
you.
You are thinking about what theyneed in terms of emotionally,
(09:10):
physically, those sorts ofthings, but you're also thinking
about how does that child learnbest?
Do they learn best by hands-ondoing things?
Do they learn best by reading orlistening to things?
What are they naturally drawnto?
Do they like watching YouTubevideos or do they like to go to
the library and borrow a book?
And that's your answer about howthat kid likes to consume
information.
And then you think about whatdoes that child enjoy?
(09:33):
What do they love?
What lights their fire?
What gets their motor revving,what are they really excited
about?
If they were to get up in themorning and do anything they
could and they were able tofollow that, what would they do?
And so because it's so childcentered, it's suited to any
child.
And having said that, someparents find it difficult to get
(09:55):
their head around how it couldbe suited to them.
Leisa Reichelt (09:59):
That was exactly my next two myths are both kind
of parent-related myths.
Pavlina (10:03):
Yeah.
Leisa Reichelt (10:04):
So our first one was...
I have to work.
I'm busy.
I don't have time to do HomeEducation.
That's something that, I mean, alot of parents who have got
School Can't kids are already ina really sticky situation a lot
of the time in terms of of work.
What do we do in that situation?
Pavlina (10:23):
The first thing I would say is if you have a School
Can't kid, your work situationis already tricky, right?
And it's unpredictable.
I would suggest to you that HomeEducation brings in some
predictability because you canactually plan.
You can make a plan about howthis is gonna work and what it's
(10:46):
gonna look like for every familyis very different.
You know, does Johnny go toGrandma's on Monday, Wednesdays,
and Fridays and do gardening andcooking with her and, you know,
building in the shed with her,you know, building bird houses,
possum boxes, nesting boxes orsomething.
Does it look like, Mum works outof home Monday through to
(11:12):
Wednesday, and Dad works out ofhome Thursday to Saturday.
Does it look like, you share itwith a, with a family that you
know who's also Home Educating.
You know, you take their kidsone day a week, they take your
kids one day a week, Does itlook like working nights?
People have moved from a moreaffluent suburb to a less
(11:34):
affluent suburb and downsized.
We grow a lot of our own food.
You learn how to reduce yourspending.
You drive a hatchback instead ofa fancy car.
There's lots of ways of makingit work.
It's about figuring out how itcan work for you, but again, it
becomes more predictable.
If you can work from home,great.
(11:55):
You know, if you can think ofsomething to do from home,
that's fantastic too.
So there's ways around,
Leisa Reichelt (12:02):
So it might be fair to say that if you have got
a big demanding full-time jobthat requires you to be in the
office and traveling all thetime, not work unless you've got
Pavlina (12:13):
Oh,
Leisa Reichelt (12:13):
village around you to
Pavlina (12:14):
you need a village?
Yeah, you do.
Unless you can take your kidwith you when you are traveling.
Leisa Reichelt (12:21):
I kind of say from personal experience, I had
one of those
Pavlina (12:23):
Yes.
Leisa Reichelt (12:24):
School Can't it like impossible to manage
really.
Pavlina (12:28):
But if you did and you were traveling, then that would
be a predictable thing, right?
You could keep that job and makeit work.
I know a dad, for example, hetakes his kid to work who's six
and the six year old has a job.
He has a little name tag and hedoes jobs.
He stuffs envelopes, Carriesmail around, he his own little
(12:49):
computer and types away at hisown things while he is at work
with Dad.
And he's part of thatenvironment.
They make it work because he'sthere, he's learning at the same
time.
You know, he's learning his ownthings on his own computer, or
he's writing his own stories, orhe's doing whatever.
And then he's also part of thatenvironment and he's happy in
that environment because hefeels safe and he knows the
(13:11):
people and his Dad's rightthere.
So it doesn't have to look likewhat we already know.
work and life to look like.
Leisa Reichelt (13:21):
Okay.
So we just need a lot moreflexibility in terms of how we
think fitting Home Educationinto our work and also how we
fit
Pavlina (13:28):
that's right.
Leisa Reichelt (13:30):
around our understanding of education,
Pavlina (13:31):
Yes, exactly.
Because Home Education is notsitting down doing book work
Leisa Reichelt (13:35):
Okay, Okay, well that kind of is a good
transition to our next myth,
Pavlina (13:39):
Yes.
Oh, excellent.
Leisa Reichelt (13:41):
you know, a lot of parents are like, I would be
one of them.
I look at the maths that my sonis doing and I'm like, there's
no way I could teach him how todo that maths.
Pavlina (13:49):
Yeah.
Leisa Reichelt (13:50):
so therefore, how could I possibly Home
Educate him when I can't helphim with the work that he is
doing now, let alone what he isgoing to be doing in a year or
two years or more.
Pavlina (13:59):
Yeah, so a parent's role is not a teacher.
You're not the sage on the stagewho knows all the things and can
teach all the things.
Sometimes we are learningalongside our kids and we help
each other with things, youknow?
I'm like, oh yeah.
I reckon you do that.
And then they can look at it andgo, Hmm, I don't think you're
right about that.
And then you reassess.
Right?
So you are also you're modeling.
How do you learn something thatyou don't know?
(14:20):
You know, you find resourcetogether.
You are a facilitator.
You can find a class, you canhelp them find a mentor.
You can help them find a websiteor a YouTuber or books however
it is that they want to learn.
But the other point too, is thatthey don't have to do all the
things.
They don't have to do calculus.
If they want to be a graphicartist, there is no point in
(14:47):
worrying about the things thatthey can't do right now or that
they are really resistant to.
You know, if that kid wants tobecome a pilot down the track,
they can do the P to 12curriculum.
They can cover that in six weeksor six months when they're
engaged, when they'repassionate.
And there's plenty of exampleswhere Home Ed kids have done
that.
(15:08):
It's about learning,investigation skills and
learning critical thinkingskills and learning how to
research and, you know, how doyou gather new skills, teaching
our kids to do that andempowering our children to do
that because those are theskills that they're gonna need
moving forward through the 21stcentury.
Leisa Reichelt (15:28):
What about the administrative side of this.
Pavlina (15:31):
Mm-hmm
Leisa Reichelt (15:32):
think that's the other thing that can be pretty
overwhelming as a parent lookingat this going, okay, well if
it's a school thing, all I knowis I just have to get my kid to
go to school for X amount oftime.
If I was going to take onhomeschooling, I understand
there's a whole lot of stuffthat has to be done to make that
change and to sort ofdemonstrate that the learning is
happening.
Pavlina (15:52):
Okay.
Leisa Reichelt (15:52):
What's, how do we get our heads
Pavlina (15:54):
around that?
Most states you don't actuallyhave to prove that the kids are
learning.
Most states, you have todemonstrate that you are
providing learningopportunities.
There are a few states where,you do have to show progress.
We're actually putting moredetailed guides on our website
as we speak.
It really depends on your state.
(16:15):
There's a lot of assistance outthere.
So we've got some good summarieson our website, but also I would
strongly encourage people tojoin their state-based Facebook
group.
So for example, in Victoriawe've got, Victorian
Homeschoolers and UnschoolersGroup.
In Queensland we recommend HEQ,so Home Education Queensland.
(16:37):
In New South Wales, HomeEducation New South Wales, in WA
there's HEWA, the, you know,Home Education, Western
Australia, every single statehas their own group where
parents have set it up, they runit, and they are the single best
source of information forregistering and for help with
those sorts of things.
Ask your questions in thosebecause they, they're a gold
(16:59):
mine.
Fantastic.
Leisa Reichelt (17:00):
We will put links in our notes to go with
this episode to the variousplaces that you can go to get in
touch with all of thosecommunities.
That's, that's fantastic.
You've talked about like how,this difference between, you
don't have to learn calculus,you just have to like learn
about learning and you know, goand stuff envelopes at Dad's
office and watch YouTube videosand all of those kinds of
(17:21):
things.
That kind of leads me a littlebit, sort of to the next myth,
right?
Which is, I think people have anidea that kids who are Home
Educated are very restricted interms of what their future could
look like, right?
They're gonna be lesssuccessful, they're less likely
to get into uni or get into likefancy jobs and all of that kind
of thing.
How would you respond to thatmyth?
Pavlina (17:43):
Okay, so Home Ed kids can do whatever they want at the
end of the day, like they areable to get into any uni course
that they want to.
Not that uni is, the be all andend all.
But, Home Ed actually gives kidsa great opportunity to explore
what they love and to explorewhat they're good at.
If something doesn't comenaturally to me and I'm not
particularly interested in it,there's no point in me doing a
(18:04):
uni course on it, because that'snot gonna give my career
longevity anyway.
I'm not gonna be passionateabout it.
So, Home Ed kids have a lot ofspace and time to figure out
what they excel at and what theylove.
A lot of Home Ed kids willactually develop businesses
while they're being HomeEducated.
It could be like a flower farm,it could be You know, whatever.
It could be lawn mowingbusiness.
It could be any number of thingsthat they set up that also give
(18:28):
them budgeting skills.
It gives them business planningand management skills, gives
them a whole lot of skills thatthey might not get the
opportunity to developotherwise.
They can do early entry to uni.
They can do TAFE coursesdepending on what state from
quite early, um.
They can get into uni on earlyentries.
(18:49):
So the way you get into uni as aHome Educated kid, there's lots
of different ways and it's gonnadepend on your course.
So you'd go to the uni, you'dsay, I'm interested in doing
this course.
Explain to me how, how matureage student would get into this
course.
Because the majority of peoplewho go to university every year
actually do not have an ATAR.
They actually go as mature agestudents or alternate pathways.
(19:13):
So that might be, go and do acert course, you know, diploma
at TAFE.
It might be doing some openuniversity subjects, and then
submitting your scores forthose.
It might be an entrance exam ora bridging course, it might be a
portfolio, especially if you'retalking about fine arts.
So it really depends on whatthey wanna do.
Leisa Reichelt (19:34):
Presumably in the course of doing Home
Education, you're not having todo like structured academic
essays, right?
And then you'll land inuniversity and have to do all of
that kind of thing there.
I imagine that there's a,there's an argument that says if
you are Home Educated and youwill ultimately land in
university that and has a veryparticular way that they want
things done.
Does that cause issues?
Pavlina (19:55):
No, because those are skills that you can learn while
you are there for a start.
There are a lot of kids who comeoutta school without those
skills.
Effectively, there are learningcenters at universities and
TAFES which support kids todevelop those skills, but also
there's this myth that you needto be, writing all these essays
(20:17):
in order to be able to write agood essay.
No, you just need to have readplenty of essays or reports or
whatever it is, and those skillsare so transferable.
Our brains are pretty amazing.
You know, they notice patternsin how things work, and we
internalize a lot of thosestructures, and then it's a lot
(20:38):
easier for us to perform thoseskills.
And apart from anything else, alot of Home Ed kids do those
things anyway.
A lot of Home Ed kids love towrite their own stories or their
own essays.
One of my kids, for example,wanted to write a scientific
report, and so he just did it.
He just wanted to do it for funbecause it was play for him.
(20:59):
They're doing all these thingsalready, and if they haven't,
then that's fine because thoseskills, when their brains are
more mature and more developedand more ready and more able to
do it, and they're alsointerested in it and it becomes
relevant to them, they can learnthose skills very fast when they
have this foundation.
And the foundation is language,which they get a lot of because
(21:21):
there's a lot of talking withparents, especially in Home
Education.
Leisa Reichelt (21:27):
Yeah, your point about the fact that there's no
guarantee coming out of schoolthat you're gonna do well at
university is, is one welltaken.
I did really well, in highschool and then went to do my
undergraduate degree and justdid terribly so badly when I
first landed there and kind ofbasically had to relearn how to
write all over again.
Pavlina (21:45):
And also, let's not forget that what the
expectations are, are veryindividual to a specific
lecturer.
Forget a course.
I mean, I've done a lot of uniand every single person wants
something done differently, soit's about being flexible and
adaptable and being able tounderstand the requirements
(22:05):
rather than being able to do itin a specific set way.
Leisa Reichelt (22:11):
Let's talk about the other thing that people
consider when they think aboutthe future for Home Educated
children.
I think there's a whole subjectarea around socialization, this
kind of notion that homeschooledkids sit at home by themselves.
Pavlina (22:26):
Mm.
Leisa Reichelt (22:27):
Weaving,
Pavlina (22:28):
In.
Leisa Reichelt (22:30):
hopefully not locked into cupboard, but you
know, not necessarily developingthose kind of social skills that
you would get in the schoolenvironment, and that this might
mean that they don't end uphaving friendships as they
progress through life, that theymight not be well prepared for
the challenging social dynamicof the workplace.
What can you tell us about that?
Pavlina (22:51):
A lot of school kids come out of school without good
friendships but I'm also goingto put it to you that Home Ed
kids actually end up with betterrelationships, especially for
neurodivergent kids.
They don't have to put up withbullying.
They are around people who arefar more accepting of
(23:13):
difference.
Home Education is actually verysocial.
It happens in each other'shouses, on excursions, on camps,
in classes, depending on howyour kid wants to engage.
The extent to which your kidwants to engage.
In co-ops, run by parents wherethey get together once a week
and everybody runs a differentactivity.
(23:35):
It happens in homeschool groupsand Home Ed groups, it happens
in the community and those kidsare far more confident generally
talking to adults.
In advocating for themselves andin being able to make friends
with a very broad range ofpeople.
Because you know, you'll go tothis camp and you'll meet these
(23:56):
people and you'll make friendswith them and you spend a lot of
hours with them.
So you get to start cementingthose relationships and then you
go to another camp or anotherclass and you meet other people
and you know, they're from alldifferent walks of life.
And with all differentcommunication styles, and you
are practicing all those skills,you know, you're not stuck in
the one school environment withthe same group of people all the
(24:20):
time.
You are communicating withpeople who are older than you
and younger than you.
I'm 49.
I have some friends who are 49,but most of them are very
different ages.
So it's a far more real lifesituation to be Home Educated
and be in the community than itis to be in a school environment
(24:41):
where you've got limited contactwith other people.
A lot of School Can't kids comeout of school unable to interact
and unable to leave the houseand hiding under their doona
because the world is just sooverwhelming and so traumatic
and so scary.
And for those kids.
social interaction might looklike after a few months, when
(25:04):
they're able to communicate.
For a start, it'll be their safepeople.
It'll be Mum or and or Dad.
It'll be siblings potentially.
It might be a couple of cousinsor friends or whatever.
But a lot of it will be onlineto start with.
And don't discount onlinefriends'cause they're super
important as well, and just asvaluable as in-person friends.
(25:28):
Social doesn't have to look thesame for everybody.
And some kids are seriouslysocial.
One of my kids is super socialand the other one is like, I
have these friends and deepexcellent relationships with
them and I'm happy with that.
I don't need to go and talk to,10,000 people like my sibling
does.
(25:48):
I'm quite happy with my group.
One loves parties.
The other one No thanks, andthat's fine.
That's part of normal humanvariation.
You know, the socialisation mythis a myth.
Leisa Reichelt (26:03):
Yeah.
It sounds as though there's awhole lot of activity and
connection that's
Pavlina (26:08):
Yes.
Leisa Reichelt (26:08):
in Home Education that the majority of
folk who haven't dipped theirtoe in there might not even know
is going on.
Pavlina (26:14):
Yeah.
And it's a very big, vibrantcommunity and lots of variety in
there.
And you know, if you don't findyour tribe, that's fine.
Just keep looking.
They're out there.
Leisa Reichelt (26:25):
Amazing.
We've talked about some of themyths that predominantly sort of
parents maybe other otherprofessionals might have about
Home Education.
I suspect a lot of kids alsohave bought into some myths as
well.
I know that, certainly for myson when I go, Hey, what about
we do Home Education?
(26:45):
He's like, no, no.
As though it's a terrible thing.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, I think he's like, I'm notgonna be stuck with my Mum
trying to teach me maths.
Pavlina (26:53):
Yeah,
Leisa Reichelt (26:54):
How do we help to debunk some of these myths
for these kids who couldprobably benefit from this, but
are initially really resistant?
Pavlina (27:00):
Well resistant because you know, I mean, for a start
it's an unknown.
Leisa Reichelt (27:04):
Mm.
Pavlina (27:04):
There aren't movies and TV series with all these Home
Educated kids running around.
You know, there's so many mythsaround Home Education that are
also perpetuated in the media.
On TV, you know, you'll have theweirdo who's Home Educated in a
TV series, and there's a lot ofperpetuation of those myths.
(27:27):
Part of what doesn't help too,is the messages that kids get
intentionally andunintentionally from media and
the, and the school systemespecially about, if you don't
finish school, you'll be afailure.
You know, the words and theterminology we use are really
powerful.
You know, high school dropout,that's a big one, and it's so
(27:51):
commonly used.
And there's stigma associatedwith leaving school because
everybody wants us to finishschool because, you know, a
society status quo is thatthat's the only way to get an
education.
And there's so many other waysto get an education and I think
(28:11):
perhaps normalizing that andtalking about, you know, what
are our deep seated fears?
What are our deep seatedconcerns?
And, you know, if a parent can'tanswer those, that's fine.
Just find someone who can, youknow, if your kid says to you,
I'm really worried, I wanna doarchitecture how can I possibly
(28:34):
get into uni and do architectureif I'm Home Educated.
I can't do that.
If you don't know the answer tothat question, then you, you go
onto the, there's a, there's agreat, Home Ed group on
Facebook, um, careers andfurther education or something.
You ask in there.
(28:55):
'Anybody's kid donearchitecture?' And people say to
you, yeah, great.
Go get them onto doing some CADor learning blender or whatever
and do this and this all of asudden that kid who's reluctant
to leave school perhaps might beless reluctant because they can
also now see that, hey, you knowwhat, I can do work experience
and I could do one day of workexperience every week for the
(29:17):
whole year with an architect.
Which is an opportunity theydon't get at school, you know?
So it's also about, you know,dude, there's opportunities,
there are actually bigopportunities when you are Home
Educated that you don't get whenyou're at school.
It's not about less opportunity,it's about different
opportunity.
And a lot of the time it's aboutmore opportunity.
Leisa Reichelt (29:38):
Amazing.
Fantastic.
That's very inspiring.
Um.
Pavlina, if Uh, somebody who islistening thinking about whether
Home Education might be theright pathway for them and their
family.
where to get started?
Pavlina (29:55):
Where to get started.
It really depends on theindividual and how they like to
learn.
You know, if they like to learnfrom other people, I would
encourage them to find theirlocal Home Ed group and go along
and ask questions.
Maybe find a few different ones.
Join some Facebook groups, askquestions in there.
(30:16):
We have people all the timejoining our Facebook group who
are thinking about Home Ed andjust wanna look around, see what
the community's like, find outabout local groups and
opportunities.
Our website has a whole lot ofinformation on it.
So we've got videos on there.
We've got a list of our upcomingwebinars.
That's a great way to learnabout it, especially if you have
(30:39):
kids who are experiencing SchoolCan't.
They can also email us, have achat by email.
We can point them to resources.
Leisa Reichelt (30:47):
Okay, so first up the HEN website and we will
make sure there's a link forthat in the notes with this
episode as well.
Alright Pavlina, anything thatyou think people desperately
need to know about HomeEducation that we haven't
covered?
Pavlina (31:00):
Look, it's great.
You know, it's a way of life andso many people, within a year of
that kid, you know, once thatkid's decompressed and is no
longer so stressed, they, theysay, I have my child back.
I don't remember them being sohappy.
I don't remember them, you know,laughing like this for the last
(31:20):
two, three years.
They realized that was missingfrom their child's life.
It's life changing and lifesaving too for some kids.
So give it a try.
And you know what, if it doesn'tsuit you, you can always go
back, you know?
Leisa Reichelt (31:36):
Absolutely.
Yeah.
It's not a one way door is it?
Amazing.
All right, well thank you so, somuch for sharing your time and
all of your knowledge with ustoday.
We really appreciate it and I'msure we'll talk with you again
soon.
Pavlina (31:49):
Lovely.
Thank you.
Thanks so much for having us..
Leisa Reichelt (31:52):
Okay, well I hope you found that a bit
insightful and inspiring and youdiscovered something new about
Home Education today.
I want to recognise that many ofus in the School Can't community
have tried Home Education andit's not worked out, for many
reasons.
This does not mean that you oryour young people are failures.
We are going to be sharing allkinds of experiences with Home
Education in the future on thispodcast, and we would welcome
(32:14):
you to share your experience aswell.
You'll find the links to HEN,the Home Education Network, as
well as many of the Facebookgroups that Pavlina mentioned in
the notes that go along withthis episode.
We've also added a link to theSchool Can't Australia
community, and there's a placefor you to share your feedback
on this podcast or maybe evenvolunteer to share your own
School Can't experience on afuture podcast episode.
(32:35):
We would love to hear from you.
If you are a parent or carer inAustralia and you're feeling
distressed, remember you canalways call the Parent Helpline
in your state.
A link with the number to callis in the show notes.
And finally, please considerdonating to School Can't
Australia.
Your tax deductible donationsassist us to raise community
(32:56):
awareness, to partner withresearchers, and to produce
resources like webinars and thisvery podcast to assist people
who are supporting children andyoung people experiencing School
Can't.
Thanks again for listening andwe'll talk again soon.
Take care.
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