Discover the transformative journey of accessibility in the built environment with accessibility expert Samantha Ryan from ABE Factors. We delve into how building codes have evolved, recognizing not only the importance of physical adaptations but also the need for a more comprehensive understanding that includes cognitive and sensory considerations.
During our engaging conversation, Samantha shares her passion for her work and the pivotal changes brought by the Accessible Canada Act, emphasizing how the movement for inclusivity is more than just a regulatory hurdle—it's about creating spaces that welcome everyone. We discuss the historic gaps in accessibility and how awareness of various disabilities is rising, leading to innovative architectural solutions designed for a diverse community.
Moreover, we explore the exciting advancements in technology that are shaping a more accessible future, such as wearable devices and smart systems that empower individuals with disabilities. By embedding accessibility principles from the outset of design projects, developers can sidestep costly retrofits and embrace inclusivity as a fundamental aspect of construction.
Join us as we envision a future where inclusivity is interwoven into the fabric of our living and working spaces, creating environments that enhance not just functionality but also comfort and happiness for all. Don’t forget to subscribe, share, and leave us a review to engage with our community and stay updated on more insightful discussions!
PODCAST INFO:
the Site Visit Website: https://www.sitemaxsystems.com/podcast
the Site Visit on Buzzsprout: https://thesitevisit.buzzsprout.com/269424
the Site Visit on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/the-site-visit/id1456494446
the Site Visit on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5cp4qJE5ExZmO3EwldN1HH
FOLLOW ALONG:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/thesitevisit
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thesitevisit
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Site.
Visit Podcast leadership andperspective from construction
with your host, james Faulkner,recorded live from the show
floor at BuildX Vancouver 2025.
All right, samantha Ryan fromABE.
(00:25):
Factors, factors, the factors,the factors of the accessibility
world.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
Correct.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Wow.
So tell me, what was theimpetus you getting started as
principal of this company Likeyou started from nothing.
What was like the I got to getinto this business?
Speaker 3 (00:42):
I think it happened organically.
So I went to school atConestoga in Kitchener, ontario,
for architecture, construction,engineering.
When I came, when I passed andI graduated, I was looking for a
job.
I got hired as a building codeconsultant at a fire and life
safety firm.
On my very first day, my bosscame up to me and he's like
would you like to be ouraccessibility specialist?
(01:02):
Okay.
And at the time I did have aninterest in it while I was in
school, and so I said, sure, whynot?
A couple moments later, heshowed up in my office with a
stack of codes and standardsrelated to accessibility, and
he's like start reading.
And so here I am, 14 yearslater 14 years Wow, that's a
long time.
Eat, sleep, breathe.
(01:23):
Building codes, legislation,regulations as it pertains to
the accessible built environment.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
So how often do these regulations change?
Is it yearly, or what's thesort of cycle on these?
Speaker 3 (01:33):
I would say the cycle is every three to five years.
Okay.
Yeah.
Depending on the building code,depending on the legislation,
depending on the regulation.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
Okay, interesting.
So how bad was it historical?
Speaker 3 (01:48):
in terms of accessibility.
I mean accessibility has beenin the code since maybe then, I
think, the first adoptedaccessible requirements in early
1972.
Uh, they weren't much like awider door.
Latch side clearances, uh,accessible paths of travel.
Yeah.
Now we're kind of in this.
The landscape of accessibilityis evolving.
(02:09):
It's changing rapidly.
Right now I'm not sure if youwere aware.
Maybe I'll ask you the question.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
Okay, go for it.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
Did you know that Canada has its own Accessible
Canada Act?
No, I did not know that.
Okay, so it was enacted in 1990.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
Okay, sorry, it was not know that we are so behind
in terms of accessibility.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
Building codes are only catching up now.
However, now that we have theAccessible Canada Act in place
and other provinces are startingto adopt their own accessible
legislation, we're also goingthrough a building code
harmonization exercise, soprovinces that adopted their own
building codes, like theBritish Columbia Building Code,
for instance, just finishedharmonizing with the National
Building Code, so we can be allon the same page.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
I see Okay.
Speaker 3 (03:04):
There were benefits of that.
There were disadvantages tothat, but right now we are
progressing.
There is a movement to gobeyond all building codes.
So you can't just do theminimum anymore.
You have to go above and beyond.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
So what are the typical categories?
Is it mostly like mobilityaccess, most of the time, like,
as in wheelchair, access?
What other areas are there,maybe in terms of vision
impaired as well, in terms ofhaving you know on elevator
(03:41):
numbers, the Braille, etc.
You know on elevator numbers,the Braille, et cetera?
What other things?
What are some of the like thedifferent categories that you
could just sort of?
Speaker 3 (03:52):
you know, tell the listeners that.
So there's actually a broadlens of people with disabilities
.
Originally, building codestarted out more physical right.
So you think a person using amanual wheelchair Gotcha?
But, there's different types ofwheelchairs, there's scooters,
there's electric wheelchairsright, all different sizes and
all different capabilities.
Okay.
Then we move into, like you said, the vision community.
(04:14):
Yeah, so whether you're blindor partially sighted, yeah,
we've got hearing.
If you have a hearingimpairment or you have partial
hearing or you're deaf, yeah,there's two deaf communities.
There's little D and big D.
Big D is actually people whoself-identify as deaf.
They might have been born andsuch, but that is their
community of space.
Okay, but then you also havecognitive, you have mental
(04:37):
awareness, you have thatneurodiverse lens.
A lot of us are being diagnosedwith ADHD these days.
Right.
So we're taking a more cognitivelens, uh, to the approach that
accessibility is.
It's ever evolving, but nowwe're not only looking at
physical barriers, we're lookingat cognitive barriers as well.
Crazy.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (04:55):
It is yeah so it everything from your accessible
paths of travel, right?
It's not just about turningcircles and ramps anymore.
Uh, you know those bubblythings.
You see the, the, the yellow,the yellow materials with the
truncated domes on them.
They're little bubbles outsideof like a train platform okay,
yeah if you will do.
You know what they're for.
No, yeah, so they're actuallythere for people who are blind
(05:16):
or partially sighted when theystep to that platform edge yeah
it's telling them that there's ahazard there and they feel the
bubbles under their feet and ittells them to stop
I see that's why we're alsostarting to apply those at the
tops of stairs right.
So again, you're addressing ahazard before it happens crazy.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
Okay, so this is, this is like an iceberg yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:37):
And then if we look at the hearing community, uh,
you'll start to notice,especially more prominent in bc
you'll start to notice thesesymbols the International Symbol
of Hearing.
It's just an ear, okay, likeit's white, typically on a blue
background.
Yeah, attached to like aservice counter or something.
Yeah.
That means someone with, like,a cochlear implant or a hearing
implant can actually have aconversation and hear the person
behind the desk.
(05:58):
You're crazy, but if you and Idon't have a hearing disability
or a cochlear implant, we wouldnever know that it's there.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
Okay, yeah, so what sort of advisory services are
you are you providing?
So you're getting into the atthe architectural level,
obviously.
Yes.
And you're consulting witharchitects and engineers.
Speaker 3 (06:16):
Every everyone architects, engineers, interior
designers, property managers,developers, you name it.
Those are our clients.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
Okay, yeah.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
We do everything from pre-construction services to
post-construction.
So we do design reviews, fromconcept, schematic design,
development, constructiondocumentation to occupancy.
And then we also do existingbuilding assessments.
So we'll go into an existingbuilding and we'll assess that
against either the accessibilityrequirements of a building code
a new building code, uh or this.
(06:49):
There's also the new rickhansen foundation accessibility
certification, so we do those,okay.
Um, if you're familiar withresidential design, apartments
and whatnot, there's the cmhcmli select program okay, tell me
about that so if you want toget up to 95 loan to value, you
can apply through cmhc to getyour loan yeah by applying the
(07:11):
ml I select criteria.
It's split into affordablerequirements, uh, sustainable
requirements and accessibilityrequirements okay so we'll sign.
We'll do the reviews for thoseaccessibility points and sign
the accessibility attestationit's pretty sweet business you
got there.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
You know, it's kind of interesting.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
It's not too shabby.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
Yeah, no, it's pretty cool.
So when a developer, you know,starts with kind of their dream
and then they get into thereality.
I see it a lot that continuumbetween we just want to do the
bare minimum to we want to gofull out all the way down to
ADHD.
Speaker 3 (07:49):
I mean that is a spectrum of we're all on a
spectrum right.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
No, I'm just saying there's a spectrum from
wheelchair ramps to that as I'msaying in terms of your paradigm
your business.
So where do you kind of see theinterest fall off when it gets
too expensive?
Or is it to the point wherepolitically, they're like, yeah,
it's not going to be much of anuptick for us.
Where does the care end?
Speaker 3 (08:13):
That's a hard one, because everyone wants to go
above and beyond code right now.
So everyone is striving to findwhat is the above and beyond
point.
That's why a lot of people aregoing for, say, the CMHC, mli
Select, or they're going forRick Hansen Foundation
Accessibility Certification.
Okay, people love certificationattached to anything it's like
a feather in the cap.
(08:34):
So very much like LEEDsustainability right.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
It's branding.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
You're measuring the level of energy savings and
sustainability within a building.
This RHFAC says we're measuringthe level of meaningful access
your building is providing.
So people are jumping on boardwith that.
However, when it comes to costs, if you bring on an
accessibility consultant or ifyou start the RHFAC process or
the above and beyond at theconcept design phase, you're
(08:59):
going to be fine.
It's when you call me atconstruction documentations 90%.
We've already tendered out someof the stuff.
Yeah.
That's when it's going to hurtyou the most in terms of cost.
And then if you just build thebuilding and realize that you
need to make it more accessible,yeah, it's going to be that
much more expensive.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
You're the queen of change orders at that point.
Absolutely yeah, yeah, queenCEO.
Speaker 3 (09:22):
And it's because, um, it's tough having those
conversations with clients whenthey come to me at the cd or
existing building when they'relike, oh, I just built this
building, can you rate it?
And I'm like, well, it's notgoing to do very well because
you didn't integrate thesethings, um.
One example would be thenational building code requires
uh and I use the nationalbuilding order same as bcbc
(09:43):
essentially 850 wide doors.
Okay, so that's a 915 standarddoor.
However, if you want a futureproof for accessibility, you
should have just gone with the860, the new 965 clear door, um,
which is much cheaper to do inthe drawing phase than it is to
do in an existing building phase.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
Crazy.
Okay, yeah, and we're talking.
These are entrance doors.
Are these like suites?
All doors, all doors.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
Oh, if you take me down the road of like adaptable
dwelling unit requirements andvisitability requirements that
are going to be released andthat are existent there In
certain standards andregulations Visitability
requirements, visitability, whatdoes that?
Speaker 1 (10:23):
mean Like all visitors.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
So what does that mean?
Speaker 1 (10:25):
Residential design criteria Is that visit, as in
who can show up, or visibility,as in site.
Speaker 3 (10:30):
Making it visitable so for example, visitable.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
Yes, yeah, I'll take it Okay, so.
Gotcha.
Speaker 3 (10:35):
I'll break it down.
If we have an apartmentbuilding or a condomin, all
right, you have a series ofunits.
Yeah, oftentimes, depending onwhat province you're in, they'll
have a requirement like youneed 15 accessible suites or you
need 20 accessible suites.
Uh, we actually don't have thatrequirement here in the bc, in
bc.
But, uh, the national buildingcode is working on adaptability
(10:55):
and visibility requirements.
Bcbc already has adaptablerequirements.
Adaptable means that you havereinforcing in the walls in your
bathroom so that someone in thefuture could install a grab bar
.
Okay.
Visitability is gravitatingtowards making sure that your
friend who uses a manualwheelchair can come to your
apartment and actually enjoythemselves.
So they can get into yourapartment, maneuver the main
(11:18):
floor of your space and use yourbathroom.
So bathrooms, particularly if Ibring it back to the BCBC
they're looking for 100%adaptability units right now.
One of those updates to the2024 version was to provide a
transfer space of 900 by 1500next to your toilet.
So your bathroom's gettinglarger.
(11:39):
The.
National Building Code isasking for 1500 turning circle.
Right Wow.
These things are coming down thepipeline and if you want to go
above and beyond that, there's astandard called CSA B651, which
refers you to CSA B652, anaccessible dwelling standard.
They're asking for an 1,800turning circle in a visitable
(12:00):
unit.
Think about how large thatpowder room just got.
Yeah, yeah, no kidding, youhave your sink next to your
toilet and now you have an 1800turning circle.
It's almost like a bedroom.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
Well, it's similar to when you go into a wheelchair
accessible washroom how muchlarger they are than a regular
washroom.
Speaker 3 (12:15):
That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:16):
And they're trying to incorporate that in all spaces.
So again you're serving the95th percentile.
Should you have your friend whouses a manual wheelchair,
electric chair come over, theycan at least use your space
versus having to find a bathroomsomewhere else like a common
universal washroom in a commoncorridor.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
Yeah, wow, yeah, I think when it's a big discussion
right now.
That is a big discussion,because I mean, especially when
you're talking price per squarefoot.
Speaker 3 (12:41):
That's just it.
Could you imagine and these areconversations I'm actively
having right now with both CMHCCSA to kind of align where
industry is now?
Because going from a toiletnext to a sink in a very small
space to an 1800 turning circleis a huge jump, yeah, not to
mention the costs associatedwith that per square foot.
When you're asking for an 1800turning circle in a bathroom,
(13:03):
you're saying, well, that onebedroom is now a studio because
I need a massive bathroom.
Yeah.
Right, and it's not even likethe disability community is
asking for that large of aturning circle.
They're just asking to be ableto go to the bathroom with some
privacy and be able to close thedoor behind them.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
No, I totally get it.
That makes sense.
Speaker 3 (13:20):
There needs to be some some flexibility there.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
Like I'm pretty sure, like I'm just thinking about
where our powder room is.
Yeah, I don't think awheelchair could get in it
Because, like our kitchencounter goes like right.
Speaker 3 (13:33):
Right.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
And I think it's in order to maneuver around.
It might be very difficult.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
Exactly.
So what the National BuildingCode is trying to publish right
now is and it'll fall back onthe authority having
jurisdiction they'll get to pickwhat percentage that is.
However, some jurisdictions,like, say, vancouver, were to
adopt 100 visibility.
Yeah, that's.
Every single suite has to havea powder room or at least one
bathroom that has a 1500 turningcircle in it well, is there
something to be considered about?
Speaker 1 (14:04):
um, I mean, and people like bigger bathrooms.
Nobody's complaining about abigger bathroom that has a 1500
turning circle in it.
Is there something to be?
Speaker 3 (14:05):
considered about, I mean, and people like bigger
bathrooms.
Nobody's complaining about abigger bathroom, but it does
come down to the bottom line.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
They are one of the bedrooms, eight by eight Exactly
.
Yeah, yeah, and it used to notbe, but obviously you know
technology is moving forward ina rapid pace in terms of
accessibility.
We see lots of new technologiescoming out.
To some degree are some ofthese?
You know, some of theseregulations in terms of size,
(14:35):
akin to how big parking spotsused to be big cars in the 1960s
I mean wheelchairs are going toget smaller and smaller.
It's all dependent on whatpeople are using right, I'm just
saying, like homes stay for along time.
So like, in five years from now, is the footprint of the
typical wheelchair going to besmaller or bigger or whatever.
(14:58):
Or exoskeletons are now cominginto where people can walk.
Speaker 3 (15:02):
Let's hope that's the future.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
That's pretty sweet, though.
Have you seen that stuff?
Speaker 3 (15:04):
Oh man, I have a friend.
I have a good friend that hasan exoskeleton and she can stand
up and yeah, that'sunbelievable, I think that
technology is wicked.
It's incredible.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
Yeah, so you're going to see a lot of big bathrooms
with people that To accommodatethat right Again, I like to see
things from like an equitableperspective.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
How does it benefit everybody, not just people with
disabilities, and I think aturning circle could benefit a
lot of the people.
But that said, are we takingaway livable space for something
that's not going to be fullyutilized is the question I'm
asking.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
Yeah Well, I think that you know what's interesting
in your business is that youhave to level set.
You know people need to be ableto get into spaces.
Speaker 3 (15:51):
They do.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
Period.
But when it comes into aprivate space, like commercial
spaces, it's got to be.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
That's just it.
I have no issues with that.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
Yeah, that's for sure , but your own private space.
Speaker 3 (16:02):
Is yours it should be unique and flexible.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
It is and, is, and, but the thing is.
What I find hard about this,though, is is that is the
majority of real estate not setup for somebody with a
disability?
Speaker 3 (16:15):
Absolutely not.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
Right.
Speaker 3 (16:17):
No, particularly here in BC.
I think Ontario is the onlyprovince right now with the most
restrictive accessibilityhousing requirements.
Right yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
But they're still falling short.
Speaker 3 (16:29):
Everyone's falling short.
Yeah, I'm from Calgary.
Alberta is definitely fallingshort.
Yeah, in that regard.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
What is the remedy to this?
I mean, are there buildingsthat are?
Is it maybe X amount of suitesare reserved for that that have
a different footprint in termsof maybe that's the way this
goes, because it's obviouslyhaving just that specific
example you had of that, youknow, turning circle within a
powder room.
I can't see every unit in thebuilding doing that.
Speaker 3 (16:59):
Not yet.
That is what we're striving for, but I think a deeper
conversation has to be had.
So, if we go back to the BCBCand the new changes, they want
100% adaptable units in alllarge apartment buildings and
condos, but they haverequirements that don't require
(17:20):
a turning circle but theyrequire transfer space.
So you just need, like, a clearrectangle next to your toilet.
That'll essentially allowsomeone to do kind of a T-turn
so they can get in.
They can get beside the toilet,close the door.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
With that going backwards.
Speaker 3 (17:33):
Yeah, exactly Like that's going to be the future.
Bc's already seeing it rightnow.
And then, when it comes toprograms like CMHC, mli, select
they're utilizing, they'remaking developers comply with
much more restrictiverequirements and standards.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
So this is where so do companies call you and they
say look, we got this, yeah.
And then you kind of, you'rethe fixer.
Speaker 3 (18:01):
Well, I go in and I review their drawings so the
developer will come to us likewe want.
We want to achieve the ml.
I select program level one,level two yeah uh, so we'll go
back.
We'll review their drawings,provide them with an uproar of
comments because they likelydon't comply with the ml I
select criteria, and then theyhave to decide whether or not
(18:23):
they're willing to redo some oftheir floor layouts to
accommodate for these morerestrictive accessibility
requirements.
Right.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
So it's interesting because the visitability is a
very interesting term.
Yes, because you would havelike in software like you know,
SightMax is a software company.
Yep, yep.
We call anything that's not themajor amount of the traffic of
the software an edge case.
Okay, okay, and it's called anedge case because it doesn't
happen to.
Most people got it right.
(18:51):
So the edge case of a visitorat your home and you're not the
one with the disability, theperson visiting your unit is yes
, that is the edge case.
Correct.
Okay, so we're building for theedge case.
Speaker 3 (19:06):
Yes, okay, essentially.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
So building for the edge case and it's the edge case
utilizing a restroom, whereasif it was an action if the
apartment itself let's just saya condo yeah.
An action if the apartmentitself let's just say a condo
yeah, if the entire condo wasset up for that person to live
in.
That would be an entirelydifferent paradigm in general,
(19:31):
because then you would have tohave turning spaces next to the
bed, so you'd have to have allof this turning stuff everywhere
.
This is now only applying tothe visibility part visitability
part yeah because of a guestcoming by.
Speaker 3 (19:44):
Correct.
That's the intent.
So there's three levels.
I said adaptable is kind ofyour.
I mean people are usingdifferent terms but in layman's
cases, adaptable is just makingsure you have certain things in
place, like a wider entrancedoor, you have controls set at
an accessible height and youhave a bathroom that someone
could use.
If you had your friend overthat uses a wheelchair, for
(20:06):
instance.
Right, okay, or sorry, that'svisitable.
I jumped too fast.
So adaptable again is just yourbasic.
In the future you can install agrab bar or something.
Yeah, very simple.
You can get through your frontdoor if you ever had to change
to a mobility device orsomething.
Visitable is your level two.
Let's say so visible is makingsure that your guest who uses a
(20:26):
wheelchair can access your space.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
In your private space .
Speaker 3 (20:29):
In your private space .
So now that they can come in,so say, you have a two-story
dwelling, okay, yeah, only themain level has to be accessible.
So they have to get throughyour front door, they have to be
able to maneuver your mainfloor and be able to use the
bathroom Right, to use thebathroom right.
Okay, then you have accessible,accessible.
Those need to be fullyaccessible.
So, yes, you're gonna have,you're gonna probably have a
(20:49):
turning circle in your frontfoyer, you're you might even
have larger paths of travel, uh,within your kitchen throughout,
going up to and into yourbedroom spaces.
Accessible path of travel ontothe balcony.
But that one's arguable, right.
Like, if you have your friendover for visitable, why should
they not be able to get out toyour balcony as well?
Speaker 1 (21:07):
So, yeah, I mean, the balconies are a whole different
.
Speaker 3 (21:11):
A whole other subject matter you?
Speaker 1 (21:13):
got to step over them because of the moisture barrier
.
You got to step over something.
Speaker 3 (21:16):
So there are ways around that, but they're very
expensive.
This is the future.
There's going to be threelevels.
You're going to 100% has to beadaptable.
A certain percentage is goingto be visitable and then a
certain percentage is going tobe accessible In one building In
one building.
Yeah, that makes sense, yeah.
And then they'll have to bedistributed accordingly between
grade and the top story anddifferent views, etc.
(21:38):
Yeah yeah, you can't just likelump them all in one corner.
Yeah they're all on the thirdfloor.
Right, yeah, exactly Like therehas to be some level of
equitable access, but the morepeople find out about these
accessible units being a littlelarger, they buy them anyway.
I can see people wanting them.
That's a good point.
Have you ever had like a nicelarge bathroom?
I have a very good bathroom.
(22:00):
Right, and a really nice largebedroom and these closets that
you can actually access.
None of that's being providedto a standard unit right now.
Yeah, that's true.
So I think there's going to besome controversy in the future.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
So what are most developers getting wrong with
this stuff Like, what are youlike?
Oh, not another one of these.
Speaker 3 (22:23):
Oh, using the building code as a checklist and
just like applying everythingversus actually understanding
the intent behind accessibilityrequirements.
One example you can have atoilet and a grab bar.
You require both in anaccessible bathroom.
Okay, but if the grab bar isn'tlocated a certain height from
(22:45):
the top of the toilet seat andit isn't in close proximity to
the front edge of the toiletseat, it renders it useless to
the person with a disability whoneeds to use it yeah right like
they have to transfer theirbody weight onto a toilet to do
a lateral transfer.
Yeah, if.
If it's not, if it's locatedtoo high, they can't reach it to
leverage their body that makessense if it's too low, it's not
(23:06):
useful either.
So it's learning those smallintents and learning about the
people that are actuallyutilizing these things to do it
correctly.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
So can we just chat a little bit about this?
Other types of disabilities,Sure, so when you're talking
ADHD, can you like I'm hazy onthat?
How does that work?
Speaker 3 (23:27):
So we're entering an era where we're actually talking
about neurodiverse design.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
Okay, so neurodiverse , that's quite the term.
Speaker 3 (23:34):
Yes, because it's a broad spectrum and you can be
anywhere on that spectrum.
So if you have Asperger'ssyndrome or if you have ADHD or
OCD or any of these moreprominent cognitive capabilities
, I would call them.
We need to look at how we'remaximizing our performance
(23:56):
within our spaces.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
Okay, so what would be an example of an application
to mitigate someone's ADHD?
Speaker 3 (24:01):
So, for instance, you , just based on what I know
about you, I do have ADHD, Doyou?
Speaker 1 (24:07):
I think I might.
Oh yeah, Honestly right.
Yeah, I can't sit still.
Speaker 3 (24:10):
It's the focus, it's the sit still.
But do you thrive in a busyenvironment like this, Like if
you had to get a task done wouldyou be able to do it with?
With input like this With allof the people around you right
now.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
That'd be.
Speaker 3 (24:23):
So a lot of people started shifting a couple of
years ago from individual officespaces to open concept office
spaces For a person like me.
I get very distracted in openconcept spaces, so it's ensuring
that office spaces actuallycreate breakout spaces, meeting
rooms or wellness spaces so thatI can actually go and
decompress, I can de-stimulate.
(24:44):
That is neurodiverse design.
Looking at the lighting can Ihave my own task lighting?
Can I have my own flex lighting?
Speaker 1 (24:51):
So this is crazy.
So this is when I say crazy, Idon't mean as in insane, I think
it's crazy in terms of howwe're going to see so the whole
return to office.
Speaker 3 (25:04):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
Has really shaken things up.
Speaker 3 (25:07):
Massively.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
Because people are going.
I, I gotta go back to this.
I didn't like it there, but Ihad to go and there was no real,
it was just status quo, thatwas it.
Yeah.
But then when it was like, okay, well, now I was, I get to be
at home and I've got this you'rein your thing, the comfort of
your own space.
Yes, and then now I'm comingback.
(25:31):
We've seen the large techcompanies, you know, having
their offices called campuses.
Speaker 3 (25:39):
We've seen that yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
And you know, having food supplied and these
different types of they'rethinking about everything in
order to maximize productivity100% Okay.
Different types of they'rethinking about everything in
order to maximize productivityone 100 okay.
So I think what we're this iswhere your, your business,
starts to become veryinteresting is now you're in the
productivity business, yes, notjust in the accessibility
business, correct, which ispretty exciting it actually is,
(26:03):
because we're helping so manyorganizations figure out what to
do, because all of theirworkers don't want to go back to
work.
Speaker 3 (26:08):
Think of all those empty office towers, right now
um, and they're panickingbecause they're paying large
leases on these or they're youknow, they're paying for their
spaces and they need to occupythem yeah so when we go in and
we do our accessibility reviews,we layer it with that.
I guess we could call it aneurodiverse component in that.
How do we get people to thrivein these office spaces?
How do we make them come back?
(26:29):
So, if they're comfortableworking from a couch, why not
incorporate a couple of couchesthroughout your office space?
Create that flexibility andthat warm environment that they
want to go to.
If I don't want to be workingat my desk the entire day, again
, do I have that breakout space?
Do I have that respite area Ican go to?
Or, if I'm more a busy bee andI like that social zone, where
can I be to perform with mycolleagues?
Speaker 1 (26:54):
Interesting.
Is this more prevalent or lessprevalent in the United States?
Speaker 3 (27:02):
That's a great question.
I would say it is a commondiscussion, or a growing
discussion in the US, becausethey are the ones who started
and they do have a neurodiversedesign standard or guideline,
whereas we're in Canada, wedon't have one specific to us
(27:24):
yet.
Speaker 1 (27:25):
So have you heard that statistic around that the
Canadians are 60% as productiveas Americans?
Speaker 3 (27:33):
I have not heard that .
Speaker 1 (27:34):
Yeah, it's like really bad and I just and the
reason I ask is because you knowwe have we're 60% as productive
.
Yes.
Speaker 3 (27:45):
Okay yeah, as productive.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
Yes, okay, yeah, and I wonder if so.
I've had a current experienceof having staff in the US.
Okay, and it's a differentthing.
Yeah, the hustle's different.
I don't know what that is and Iwonder if you match the hustle
(28:08):
with the productivityoptimization through what your
consultants are Through yourbuilt environment.
Yeah, exactly Because I thinkwhere we need to get to in
Canada because you're a Canadianbusiness and you're doing
business in Canada here is weneed to get these numbers up so
that our dollar doesn't end upat 50 cents.
Speaker 3 (28:24):
You know, I truly believe that, I truly believe
that our built environment, likehappiness is so important.
Yes, and I think the U S onehas more money to do those
things and spend on those thingsthan Canadians have, and so
that's where we fall short alittle bit.
That's not to say that largerorganizations aren't trying to
maximize those efforts.
Yeah.
Who doesn't want to thrive intheir environment?
(28:45):
Who doesn't want to go to work?
But if all you're going to dois provide a gray box with a
desk in it, nobody wants to goto that every day.
You have to be willing to bringin biophilic design measures,
so incorporating nature intoyour spaces.
Speaker 1 (29:01):
That's the second time I've heard biophilic.
Speaker 3 (29:02):
Yes, thinking about the colors you're using and how
they're in tune with theactivity or task of that space.
There's so much more than justaccessibility.
Yet you're trying to againmaximize what our capabilities
are within those buildings yeahso we need to rethink about the
typical workspace or even ourliving environment, right?
Speaker 1 (29:24):
because I think over time, I think we've all always
been neurodiverse uh, I believethat wholeheartedly.
I I mean it's just always beenthere.
Yes, it's just never beenaddressed.
Speaker 3 (29:32):
But now people are actually talking about it.
Speaker 1 (29:34):
Right.
I mean it's on the recruitmentside.
It's all really rough right,because you're thinking well,
business is hard as it is.
I want killers, don't wantanyone.
I don't want that.
Some people, some people, Ican't do it because the dollar
is too hard to go get.
And what I find is interestingis I would sort of put my finger
(29:57):
in the air and say that a highpercentage of companies they're
not all thinking about thisstuff.
A lot of the revenue and a lotof the GDP that's created is not
big companies.
There's a lot of smallcompanies, that a lot of the gdp
that's created is not bigcompanies.
There's a lot of smallcompanies.
They're not even thinking ofthis.
They're just like go, go, go,go go an interesting statistic
on gdp.
Speaker 3 (30:18):
If we made more workspaces accessible and
layered on that neurodiverseaspect actually yeah, our gdp
would grow by 18 billion dollarsis it uncommon, incumbent on
the government to put programstogether for this thing, because
otherwise it's got to come out.
It's got to come out ofsomeone's wallet so here's the
(30:38):
thing, and the sad reality of itis that accessibility shouldn't
have to be incentivized, butbecause it's never been built
into the norm of design yeah youhave to incentivize in order
for these large organizationssmall organizations to get on
board with it.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
Yeah, the government just hasn't provided those
programs yet, although Istrongly encourage them to do so
so what are you excited aboutin your, in your industry coming
in the next five years here?
Oh man what gives you that?
Oh man awesome technology okaytechnology like what we're
talking about exoskeleton that'sjust it.
Speaker 3 (31:12):
I think the evolving intelligence behind digitizing
accessibility is massive.
The capabilities that someonehas from their smartphone to
like unlock their door, to turnon their lights, turn off their
lights to add assistivelistening systems to spaces so
that people can actually hearconversations.
(31:32):
People who are blind again usingnavigational apps to get them
through a building or anexhibition like this.
Digitizing accessible PDFs sothat people can receive the
information they need inwhichever way it's endless, so
I'm super excited aboutaccessible innovation tech.
That's cool.
Yeah, you know there's.
So I'm super excited aboutaccessible innovation tech,
that's cool.
Speaker 1 (31:48):
Yeah, you know there's, so I'm going to give
you a compliment here.
Okay, so don't blush.
But I always find, like youknow, talking to people, you can
pretty much figure out ifthey're like a cerebral thinker
or not, and you're one of those.
Oh, I appreciate that, that'sreally cool, yeah, so I think
the industry is going to bebetter off and people are going
to thank you for everything thatyou've done.
So that's pretty cool, thankyou.
(32:09):
Yeah, so good luck witheverything.
How do people get ahold of you?
Speaker 3 (32:13):
Contact me at Samantha at abefactorscom.
You can go to wwwabefactorscomas well, but yeah, there's lots
of ways to get ahold of me.
Another cool thing that I wouldlike to bring up is that I'm
the co-author of a pretty neatbook called Building Better
Bathrooms, which is actually anAmazon bestseller.
So go check it out.
Speaker 1 (32:33):
That's cool.
Speaker 3 (32:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:34):
All right.
Well, thank you very much.
This has been very informativefor me and I'm sure everyone
will love this content.
So thank you very much.
Speaker 3 (32:39):
Awesome.
Thank you so much for having meRight on.
Speaker 1 (32:43):
Well, that does it for another episode of the Site
Visit.
Thank you for listening.
Be sure to stay connected withus by following our social
accounts on Instagram andYouTube.
You can also sign up for ourmonthly newsletter at
sitemaxsystemscom slash the sitevisit, where you'll get
industry insights, pro tips andeverything you need to know
about the site visit podcast andSiteMax, the job site and
(33:09):
construction management tool ofchoice for thousands of
contractors in North America andbeyond.
Sitemax is also the engine thatpowers this podcast.
All right, let's get back tobuilding.
Welcome to the Site.
Visit Podcast leadership andperspective from construction
with your host, james Faulkner,recorded live from the show
floor at BuildX Vancouver 2025.
All right, samantha Ryan fromABE.
(00:25):
Factors, factors, the factors,the factors of the accessibility
world.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
Correct.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Wow.
So tell me, what was theimpetus you getting started as
principal of this company Likeyou started from nothing.
What was like the I got to getinto this business?
Speaker 3 (00:42):
I think it happened organically.
So I went to school atConestoga in Kitchener, ontario,
for architecture, construction,engineering.
When I came, when I passed andI graduated, I was looking for a
job.
I got hired as a building codeconsultant at a fire and life
safety firm.
On my very first day, my bosscame up to me and he's like
would you like to be ouraccessibility specialist?
(01:02):
Okay.
And at the time I did have aninterest in it while I was in
school, and so I said, sure, whynot?
A couple moments later, heshowed up in my office with a
stack of codes and standardsrelated to accessibility, and
he's like start reading.
And so here I am, 14 yearslater 14 years Wow, that's a
long time.
Eat, sleep, breathe.
(01:23):
Building codes, legislation,regulations as it pertains to
the accessible built environment.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
So how often do these regulations change?
Is it yearly, or what's thesort of cycle on these?
Speaker 3 (01:33):
I would say the cycle is every three to five years.
Okay.
Yeah.
Depending on the building code,depending on the legislation,
depending on the regulation.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
Okay, interesting.
So how bad was it historical?
Speaker 3 (01:48):
in terms of accessibility.
I mean accessibility has beenin the code since maybe then, I
think, the first adoptedaccessible requirements in early
1972.
Uh, they weren't much like awider door.
Latch side clearances, uh,accessible paths of travel.
Yeah.
Now we're kind of in this.
The landscape of accessibilityis evolving.
(02:09):
It's changing rapidly.
Right now I'm not sure if youwere aware.
Maybe I'll ask you the question.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
Okay, go for it.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
Did you know that Canada has its own Accessible
Canada Act?
No, I did not know that.
Okay, so it was enacted in 1990.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
Okay, sorry, it was not know that we are so behind
in terms of accessibility.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
Building codes are only catching up now.
However, now that we have theAccessible Canada Act in place
and other provinces are startingto adopt their own accessible
legislation, we're also goingthrough a building code
harmonization exercise, soprovinces that adopted their own
building codes, like theBritish Columbia Building Code,
for instance, just finishedharmonizing with the National
Building Code, so we can be allon the same page.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
I see Okay.
Speaker 3 (03:04):
There were benefits of that.
There were disadvantages tothat, but right now we are
progressing.
There is a movement to gobeyond all building codes.
So you can't just do theminimum anymore.
You have to go above and beyond.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
So what are the typical categories?
Is it mostly like mobilityaccess, most of the time, like,
as in wheelchair, access?
What other areas are there,maybe in terms of vision
impaired as well, in terms ofhaving you know on elevator
(03:41):
numbers, the Braille, etc.
You know on elevator numbers,the Braille, et cetera?
What other things?
What are some of the like thedifferent categories that you
could just sort of?
Speaker 3 (03:52):
you know, tell the listeners that.
So there's actually a broadlens of people with disabilities
.
Originally, building codestarted out more physical right.
So you think a person using amanual wheelchair Gotcha?
But, there's different types ofwheelchairs, there's scooters,
there's electric wheelchairsright, all different sizes and
all different capabilities.
Okay.
Then we move into, like you said, the vision community.
(04:14):
Yeah, so whether you're blindor partially sighted, yeah,
we've got hearing.
If you have a hearingimpairment or you have partial
hearing or you're deaf, yeah,there's two deaf communities.
There's little D and big D.
Big D is actually people whoself-identify as deaf.
They might have been born andsuch, but that is their
community of space.
Okay, but then you also havecognitive, you have mental
(04:37):
awareness, you have thatneurodiverse lens.
A lot of us are being diagnosedwith ADHD these days.
Right.
So we're taking a more cognitivelens, uh, to the approach that
accessibility is.
It's ever evolving, but nowwe're not only looking at
physical barriers, we're lookingat cognitive barriers as well.
Crazy.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (04:55):
It is yeah so it everything from your accessible
paths of travel, right?
It's not just about turningcircles and ramps anymore.
Uh, you know those bubblythings.
You see the, the, the yellow,the yellow materials with the
truncated domes on them.
They're little bubbles outsideof like a train platform okay,
yeah if you will do.
You know what they're for.
No, yeah, so they're actuallythere for people who are blind
(05:16):
or partially sighted when theystep to that platform edge yeah
it's telling them that there's ahazard there and they feel the
bubbles under their feet and ittells them to stop
I see that's why we're alsostarting to apply those at the
tops of stairs right.
So again, you're addressing ahazard before it happens crazy.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
Okay, so this is, this is like an iceberg yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:37):
And then if we look at the hearing community, uh,
you'll start to notice,especially more prominent in bc
you'll start to notice thesesymbols the International Symbol
of Hearing.
It's just an ear, okay, likeit's white, typically on a blue
background.
Yeah, attached to like aservice counter or something.
Yeah.
That means someone with, like,a cochlear implant or a hearing
implant can actually have aconversation and hear the person
behind the desk.
(05:58):
You're crazy, but if you and Idon't have a hearing disability
or a cochlear implant, we wouldnever know that it's there.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
Okay, yeah, so what sort of advisory services are
you are you providing?
So you're getting into the atthe architectural level,
obviously.
Yes.
And you're consulting witharchitects and engineers.
Speaker 3 (06:16):
Every everyone architects, engineers, interior
designers, property managers,developers, you name it.
Those are our clients.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
Okay, yeah.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
We do everything from pre-construction services to
post-construction.
So we do design reviews, fromconcept, schematic design,
development, constructiondocumentation to occupancy.
And then we also do existingbuilding assessments.
So we'll go into an existingbuilding and we'll assess that
against either the accessibilityrequirements of a building code
a new building code, uh or this.
(06:49):
There's also the new rickhansen foundation accessibility
certification, so we do those,okay.
Um, if you're familiar withresidential design, apartments
and whatnot, there's the cmhcmli select program okay, tell me
about that so if you want toget up to 95 loan to value, you
can apply through cmhc to getyour loan yeah by applying the
(07:11):
ml I select criteria.
It's split into affordablerequirements, uh, sustainable
requirements and accessibilityrequirements okay so we'll sign.
We'll do the reviews for thoseaccessibility points and sign
the accessibility attestationit's pretty sweet business you
got there.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
You know, it's kind of interesting.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
It's not too shabby.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
Yeah, no, it's pretty cool.
So when a developer, you know,starts with kind of their dream
and then they get into thereality.
I see it a lot that continuumbetween we just want to do the
bare minimum to we want to gofull out all the way down to
ADHD.
Speaker 3 (07:49):
I mean that is a spectrum of we're all on a
spectrum right.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
No, I'm just saying there's a spectrum from
wheelchair ramps to that as I'msaying in terms of your paradigm
your business.
So where do you kind of see theinterest fall off when it gets
too expensive?
Or is it to the point wherepolitically, they're like, yeah,
it's not going to be much of anuptick for us.
Where does the care end?
Speaker 3 (08:13):
That's a hard one, because everyone wants to go
above and beyond code right now.
So everyone is striving to findwhat is the above and beyond
point.
That's why a lot of people aregoing for, say, the CMHC, mli
Select, or they're going forRick Hansen Foundation
Accessibility Certification.
Okay, people love certificationattached to anything it's like
a feather in the cap.
(08:34):
So very much like LEEDsustainability right.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
It's branding.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
You're measuring the level of energy savings and
sustainability within a building.
This RHFAC says we're measuringthe level of meaningful access
your building is providing.
So people are jumping on boardwith that.
However, when it comes to costs, if you bring on an
accessibility consultant or ifyou start the RHFAC process or
the above and beyond at theconcept design phase, you're
(08:59):
going to be fine.
It's when you call me atconstruction documentations 90%.
We've already tendered out someof the stuff.
Yeah.
That's when it's going to hurtyou the most in terms of cost.
And then if you just build thebuilding and realize that you
need to make it more accessible,yeah, it's going to be that
much more expensive.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
You're the queen of change orders at that point.
Absolutely yeah, yeah, queenCEO.
Speaker 3 (09:22):
And it's because, um, it's tough having those
conversations with clients whenthey come to me at the cd or
existing building when they'relike, oh, I just built this
building, can you rate it?
And I'm like, well, it's notgoing to do very well because
you didn't integrate thesethings, um.
One example would be thenational building code requires
uh and I use the nationalbuilding order same as bcbc
(09:43):
essentially 850 wide doors.
Okay, so that's a 915 standarddoor.
However, if you want a futureproof for accessibility, you
should have just gone with the860, the new 965 clear door, um,
which is much cheaper to do inthe drawing phase than it is to
do in an existing building phase.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
Crazy.
Okay, yeah, and we're talking.
These are entrance doors.
Are these like suites?
All doors, all doors.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
Oh, if you take me down the road of like adaptable
dwelling unit requirements andvisitability requirements that
are going to be released andthat are existent there In
certain standards andregulations Visitability
requirements, visitability, whatdoes that?
Speaker 1 (10:23):
mean Like all visitors.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
So what does that mean?
Speaker 1 (10:25):
Residential design criteria Is that visit, as in
who can show up, or visibility,as in site.
Speaker 3 (10:30):
Making it visitable so for example, visitable.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
Yes, yeah, I'll take it Okay, so.
Gotcha.
Speaker 3 (10:35):
I'll break it down.
If we have an apartmentbuilding or a condomin, all
right, you have a series ofunits.
Yeah, oftentimes, depending onwhat province you're in, they'll
have a requirement like youneed 15 accessible suites or you
need 20 accessible suites.
Uh, we actually don't have thatrequirement here in the bc, in
bc.
But, uh, the national buildingcode is working on adaptability
(10:55):
and visibility requirements.
Bcbc already has adaptablerequirements.
Adaptable means that you havereinforcing in the walls in your
bathroom so that someone in thefuture could install a grab bar
.
Okay.
Visitability is gravitatingtowards making sure that your
friend who uses a manualwheelchair can come to your
apartment and actually enjoythemselves.
So they can get into yourapartment, maneuver the main
(11:18):
floor of your space and use yourbathroom.
So bathrooms, particularly if Ibring it back to the BCBC
they're looking for 100%adaptability units right now.
One of those updates to the2024 version was to provide a
transfer space of 900 by 1500next to your toilet.
So your bathroom's gettinglarger.
(11:39):
The.
National Building Code isasking for 1500 turning circle.
Right Wow.
These things are coming down thepipeline and if you want to go
above and beyond that, there's astandard called CSA B651, which
refers you to CSA B652, anaccessible dwelling standard.
They're asking for an 1,800turning circle in a visitable
(12:00):
unit.
Think about how large thatpowder room just got.
Yeah, yeah, no kidding, youhave your sink next to your
toilet and now you have an 1800turning circle.
It's almost like a bedroom.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
Well, it's similar to when you go into a wheelchair
accessible washroom how muchlarger they are than a regular
washroom.
Speaker 3 (12:15):
That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:16):
And they're trying to incorporate that in all spaces.
So again you're serving the95th percentile.
Should you have your friend whouses a manual wheelchair,
electric chair come over, theycan at least use your space
versus having to find a bathroomsomewhere else like a common
universal washroom in a commoncorridor.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
Yeah, wow, yeah, I think when it's a big discussion
right now.
That is a big discussion,because I mean, especially when
you're talking price per squarefoot.
Speaker 3 (12:41):
That's just it.
Could you imagine and these areconversations I'm actively
having right now with both CMHCCSA to kind of align where
industry is now?
Because going from a toiletnext to a sink in a very small
space to an 1800 turning circleis a huge jump, yeah, not to
mention the costs associatedwith that per square foot.
When you're asking for an 1800turning circle in a bathroom,
(13:03):
you're saying, well, that onebedroom is now a studio because
I need a massive bathroom.
Yeah.
Right, and it's not even likethe disability community is
asking for that large of aturning circle.
They're just asking to be ableto go to the bathroom with some
privacy and be able to close thedoor behind them.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
No, I totally get it.
That makes sense.
Speaker 3 (13:20):
There needs to be some some flexibility there.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
Like I'm pretty sure, like I'm just thinking about
where our powder room is.
Yeah, I don't think awheelchair could get in it
Because, like our kitchencounter goes like right.
Speaker 3 (13:33):
Right.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
And I think it's in order to maneuver around.
It might be very difficult.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
Exactly.
So what the National BuildingCode is trying to publish right
now is and it'll fall back onthe authority having
jurisdiction they'll get to pickwhat percentage that is.
However, some jurisdictions,like, say, vancouver, were to
adopt 100 visibility.
Yeah, that's.
Every single suite has to havea powder room or at least one
bathroom that has a 1500 turningcircle in it well, is there
something to be considered about?
Speaker 1 (14:04):
um, I mean, and people like bigger bathrooms.
Nobody's complaining about abigger bathroom that has a 1500
turning circle in it.
Is there something to be?
Speaker 3 (14:05):
considered about, I mean, and people like bigger
bathrooms.
Nobody's complaining about abigger bathroom, but it does
come down to the bottom line.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
They are one of the bedrooms, eight by eight Exactly
.
Yeah, yeah, and it used to notbe, but obviously you know
technology is moving forward ina rapid pace in terms of
accessibility.
We see lots of new technologiescoming out.
To some degree are some ofthese?
You know, some of theseregulations in terms of size,
(14:35):
akin to how big parking spotsused to be big cars in the 1960s
I mean wheelchairs are going toget smaller and smaller.
It's all dependent on whatpeople are using right, I'm just
saying, like homes stay for along time.
So like, in five years from now, is the footprint of the
typical wheelchair going to besmaller or bigger or whatever.
(14:58):
Or exoskeletons are now cominginto where people can walk.
Speaker 3 (15:02):
Let's hope that's the future.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
That's pretty sweet, though.
Have you seen that stuff?
Speaker 3 (15:04):
Oh man, I have a friend.
I have a good friend that hasan exoskeleton and she can stand
up and yeah, that'sunbelievable, I think that
technology is wicked.
It's incredible.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
Yeah, so you're going to see a lot of big bathrooms
with people that To accommodatethat right Again, I like to see
things from like an equitableperspective.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
How does it benefit everybody, not just people with
disabilities, and I think aturning circle could benefit a
lot of the people.
But that said, are we takingaway livable space for something
that's not going to be fullyutilized is the question I'm
asking.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
Yeah Well, I think that you know what's interesting
in your business is that youhave to level set.
You know people need to be ableto get into spaces.
Speaker 3 (15:51):
They do.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
Period.
But when it comes into aprivate space, like commercial
spaces, it's got to be.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
That's just it.
I have no issues with that.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
Yeah, that's for sure , but your own private space.
Speaker 3 (16:02):
Is yours it should be unique and flexible.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
It is and, is, and, but the thing is.
What I find hard about this,though, is is that is the
majority of real estate not setup for somebody with a
disability?
Speaker 3 (16:15):
Absolutely not.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
Right.
Speaker 3 (16:17):
No, particularly here in BC.
I think Ontario is the onlyprovince right now with the most
restrictive accessibilityhousing requirements.
Right yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
But they're still falling short.
Speaker 3 (16:29):
Everyone's falling short.
Yeah, I'm from Calgary.
Alberta is definitely fallingshort.
Yeah, in that regard.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
What is the remedy to this?
I mean, are there buildingsthat are?
Is it maybe X amount of suitesare reserved for that that have
a different footprint in termsof maybe that's the way this
goes, because it's obviouslyhaving just that specific
example you had of that, youknow, turning circle within a
powder room.
I can't see every unit in thebuilding doing that.
Speaker 3 (16:59):
Not yet.
That is what we're striving for, but I think a deeper
conversation has to be had.
So, if we go back to the BCBCand the new changes, they want
100% adaptable units in alllarge apartment buildings and
condos, but they haverequirements that don't require
(17:20):
a turning circle but theyrequire transfer space.
So you just need, like, a clearrectangle next to your toilet.
That'll essentially allowsomeone to do kind of a T-turn
so they can get in.
They can get beside the toilet,close the door.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
With that going backwards.
Speaker 3 (17:33):
Yeah, exactly Like that's going to be the future.
Bc's already seeing it rightnow.
And then, when it comes toprograms like CMHC, mli, select
they're utilizing, they'remaking developers comply with
much more restrictiverequirements and standards.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
So this is where so do companies call you and they
say look, we got this, yeah.
And then you kind of, you'rethe fixer.
Speaker 3 (18:01):
Well, I go in and I review their drawings so the
developer will come to us likewe want.
We want to achieve the ml.
I select program level one,level two yeah uh, so we'll go
back.
We'll review their drawings,provide them with an uproar of
comments because they likelydon't comply with the ml I
select criteria, and then theyhave to decide whether or not
(18:23):
they're willing to redo some oftheir floor layouts to
accommodate for these morerestrictive accessibility
requirements.
Right.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
So it's interesting because the visitability is a
very interesting term.
Yes, because you would havelike in software like you know,
SightMax is a software company.
Yep, yep.
We call anything that's not themajor amount of the traffic of
the software an edge case.
Okay, okay, and it's called anedge case because it doesn't
happen to.
Most people got it right.
(18:51):
So the edge case of a visitorat your home and you're not the
one with the disability, theperson visiting your unit is yes
, that is the edge case.
Correct.
Okay, so we're building for theedge case.
Speaker 3 (19:06):
Yes, okay, essentially.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
So building for the edge case and it's the edge case
utilizing a restroom, whereasif it was an action if the
apartment itself let's just saya condo yeah.
An action if the apartmentitself let's just say a condo
yeah, if the entire condo wasset up for that person to live
in.
That would be an entirelydifferent paradigm in general,
(19:31):
because then you would have tohave turning spaces next to the
bed, so you'd have to have allof this turning stuff everywhere
.
This is now only applying tothe visibility part visitability
part yeah because of a guestcoming by.
Speaker 3 (19:44):
Correct.
That's the intent.
So there's three levels.
I said adaptable is kind ofyour.
I mean people are usingdifferent terms but in layman's
cases, adaptable is just makingsure you have certain things in
place, like a wider entrancedoor, you have controls set at
an accessible height and youhave a bathroom that someone
could use.
If you had your friend overthat uses a wheelchair, for
(20:06):
instance.
Right, okay, or sorry, that'svisitable.
I jumped too fast.
So adaptable again is just yourbasic.
In the future you can install agrab bar or something.
Yeah, very simple.
You can get through your frontdoor if you ever had to change
to a mobility device orsomething.
Visitable is your level two.
Let's say so visible is makingsure that your guest who uses a
(20:26):
wheelchair can access your space.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
In your private space .
Speaker 3 (20:29):
In your private space .
So now that they can come in,so say, you have a two-story
dwelling, okay, yeah, only themain level has to be accessible.
So they have to get throughyour front door, they have to be
able to maneuver your mainfloor and be able to use the
bathroom Right, to use thebathroom right.
Okay, then you have accessible,accessible.
Those need to be fullyaccessible.
So, yes, you're gonna have,you're gonna probably have a
(20:49):
turning circle in your frontfoyer, you're you might even
have larger paths of travel, uh,within your kitchen throughout,
going up to and into yourbedroom spaces.
Accessible path of travel ontothe balcony.
But that one's arguable, right.
Like, if you have your friendover for visitable, why should
they not be able to get out toyour balcony as well?
Speaker 1 (21:07):
So, yeah, I mean, the balconies are a whole different
.
Speaker 3 (21:11):
A whole other subject matter you?
Speaker 1 (21:13):
got to step over them because of the moisture barrier
.
You got to step over something.
Speaker 3 (21:16):
So there are ways around that, but they're very
expensive.
This is the future.
There's going to be threelevels.
You're going to 100% has to beadaptable.
A certain percentage is goingto be visitable and then a
certain percentage is going tobe accessible In one building In
one building.
Yeah, that makes sense, yeah.
And then they'll have to bedistributed accordingly between
grade and the top story anddifferent views, etc.
(21:38):
Yeah yeah, you can't just likelump them all in one corner.
Yeah they're all on the thirdfloor.
Right, yeah, exactly Like therehas to be some level of
equitable access, but the morepeople find out about these
accessible units being a littlelarger, they buy them anyway.
I can see people wanting them.
That's a good point.
Have you ever had like a nicelarge bathroom?
I have a very good bathroom.
(22:00):
Right, and a really nice largebedroom and these closets that
you can actually access.
None of that's being providedto a standard unit right now.
Yeah, that's true.
So I think there's going to besome controversy in the future.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
So what are most developers getting wrong with
this stuff Like, what are youlike?
Oh, not another one of these.
Speaker 3 (22:23):
Oh, using the building code as a checklist and
just like applying everythingversus actually understanding
the intent behind accessibilityrequirements.
One example you can have atoilet and a grab bar.
You require both in anaccessible bathroom.
Okay, but if the grab bar isn'tlocated a certain height from
(22:45):
the top of the toilet seat andit isn't in close proximity to
the front edge of the toiletseat, it renders it useless to
the person with a disability whoneeds to use it yeah right like
they have to transfer theirbody weight onto a toilet to do
a lateral transfer.
Yeah, if.
If it's not, if it's locatedtoo high, they can't reach it to
leverage their body that makessense if it's too low, it's not
(23:06):
useful either.
So it's learning those smallintents and learning about the
people that are actuallyutilizing these things to do it
correctly.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
So can we just chat a little bit about this?
Other types of disabilities,Sure, so when you're talking
ADHD, can you like I'm hazy onthat?
How does that work?
Speaker 3 (23:27):
So we're entering an era where we're actually talking
about neurodiverse design.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
Okay, so neurodiverse , that's quite the term.
Speaker 3 (23:34):
Yes, because it's a broad spectrum and you can be
anywhere on that spectrum.
So if you have Asperger'ssyndrome or if you have ADHD or
OCD or any of these moreprominent cognitive capabilities
, I would call them.
We need to look at how we'remaximizing our performance
(23:56):
within our spaces.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
Okay, so what would be an example of an application
to mitigate someone's ADHD?
Speaker 3 (24:01):
So, for instance, you , just based on what I know
about you, I do have ADHD, Doyou?
Speaker 1 (24:07):
I think I might.
Oh yeah, Honestly right.
Yeah, I can't sit still.
Speaker 3 (24:10):
It's the focus, it's the sit still.
But do you thrive in a busyenvironment like this, Like if
you had to get a task done wouldyou be able to do it with?
With input like this With allof the people around you right
now.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
That'd be.
Speaker 3 (24:23):
So a lot of people started shifting a couple of
years ago from individual officespaces to open concept office
spaces For a person like me.
I get very distracted in openconcept spaces, so it's ensuring
that office spaces actuallycreate breakout spaces, meeting
rooms or wellness spaces so thatI can actually go and
decompress, I can de-stimulate.
(24:44):
That is neurodiverse design.
Looking at the lighting can Ihave my own task lighting?
Can I have my own flex lighting?
Speaker 1 (24:51):
So this is crazy.
So this is when I say crazy, Idon't mean as in insane, I think
it's crazy in terms of howwe're going to see so the whole
return to office.
Speaker 3 (25:04):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
Has really shaken things up.
Speaker 3 (25:07):
Massively.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
Because people are going.
I, I gotta go back to this.
I didn't like it there, but Ihad to go and there was no real,
it was just status quo, thatwas it.
Yeah.
But then when it was like, okay, well, now I was, I get to be
at home and I've got this you'rein your thing, the comfort of
your own space.
Yes, and then now I'm comingback.
(25:31):
We've seen the large techcompanies, you know, having
their offices called campuses.
Speaker 3 (25:39):
We've seen that yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
And you know, having food supplied and these
different types of they'rethinking about everything in
order to maximize productivity100% Okay.
Different types of they'rethinking about everything in
order to maximize productivityone 100 okay.
So I think what we're this iswhere your, your business,
starts to become veryinteresting is now you're in the
productivity business, yes, notjust in the accessibility
business, correct, which ispretty exciting it actually is,
(26:03):
because we're helping so manyorganizations figure out what to
do, because all of theirworkers don't want to go back to
work.
Speaker 3 (26:08):
Think of all those empty office towers, right now
um, and they're panickingbecause they're paying large
leases on these or they're youknow, they're paying for their
spaces and they need to occupythem yeah so when we go in and
we do our accessibility reviews,we layer it with that.
I guess we could call it aneurodiverse component in that.
How do we get people to thrivein these office spaces?
How do we make them come back?
(26:29):
So, if they're comfortableworking from a couch, why not
incorporate a couple of couchesthroughout your office space?
Create that flexibility andthat warm environment that they
want to go to.
If I don't want to be workingat my desk the entire day, again
, do I have that breakout space?
Do I have that respite area Ican go to?
Or, if I'm more a busy bee andI like that social zone, where
can I be to perform with mycolleagues?
Speaker 1 (26:54):
Interesting.
Is this more prevalent or lessprevalent in the United States?
Speaker 3 (27:02):
That's a great question.
I would say it is a commondiscussion, or a growing
discussion in the US, becausethey are the ones who started
and they do have a neurodiversedesign standard or guideline,
whereas we're in Canada, wedon't have one specific to us
(27:24):
yet.
Speaker 1 (27:25):
So have you heard that statistic around that the
Canadians are 60% as productiveas Americans?
Speaker 3 (27:33):
I have not heard that .
Speaker 1 (27:34):
Yeah, it's like really bad and I just and the
reason I ask is because you knowwe have we're 60% as productive
.
Yes.
Speaker 3 (27:45):
Okay yeah, as productive.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
Yes, okay, yeah, and I wonder if so.
I've had a current experienceof having staff in the US.
Okay, and it's a differentthing.
Yeah, the hustle's different.
I don't know what that is and Iwonder if you match the hustle
(28:08):
with the productivityoptimization through what your
consultants are Through yourbuilt environment.
Yeah, exactly Because I thinkwhere we need to get to in
Canada because you're a Canadianbusiness and you're doing
business in Canada here is weneed to get these numbers up so
that our dollar doesn't end upat 50 cents.
Speaker 3 (28:24):
You know, I truly believe that, I truly believe
that our built environment, likehappiness is so important.
Yes, and I think the U S onehas more money to do those
things and spend on those thingsthan Canadians have, and so
that's where we fall short alittle bit.
That's not to say that largerorganizations aren't trying to
maximize those efforts.
Yeah.
Who doesn't want to thrive intheir environment?
(28:45):
Who doesn't want to go to work?
But if all you're going to dois provide a gray box with a
desk in it, nobody wants to goto that every day.
You have to be willing to bringin biophilic design measures,
so incorporating nature intoyour spaces.
Speaker 1 (29:01):
That's the second time I've heard biophilic.
Speaker 3 (29:02):
Yes, thinking about the colors you're using and how
they're in tune with theactivity or task of that space.
There's so much more than justaccessibility.
Yet you're trying to againmaximize what our capabilities
are within those buildings yeahso we need to rethink about the
typical workspace or even ourliving environment, right?
Speaker 1 (29:24):
because I think over time, I think we've all always
been neurodiverse uh, I believethat wholeheartedly.
I I mean it's just always beenthere.
Yes, it's just never beenaddressed.
Speaker 3 (29:32):
But now people are actually talking about it.
Speaker 1 (29:34):
Right.
I mean it's on the recruitmentside.
It's all really rough right,because you're thinking well,
business is hard as it is.
I want killers, don't wantanyone.
I don't want that.
Some people, some people, Ican't do it because the dollar
is too hard to go get.
And what I find is interestingis I would sort of put my finger
(29:57):
in the air and say that a highpercentage of companies they're
not all thinking about thisstuff.
A lot of the revenue and a lotof the GDP that's created is not
big companies.
There's a lot of smallcompanies, that a lot of the gdp
that's created is not bigcompanies.
There's a lot of smallcompanies.
They're not even thinking ofthis.
They're just like go, go, go,go go an interesting statistic
on gdp.
Speaker 3 (30:18):
If we made more workspaces accessible and
layered on that neurodiverseaspect actually yeah, our gdp
would grow by 18 billion dollarsis it uncommon, incumbent on
the government to put programstogether for this thing, because
otherwise it's got to come out.
It's got to come out ofsomeone's wallet so here's the
(30:38):
thing, and the sad reality of itis that accessibility shouldn't
have to be incentivized, butbecause it's never been built
into the norm of design yeah youhave to incentivize in order
for these large organizationssmall organizations to get on
board with it.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
Yeah, the government just hasn't provided those
programs yet, although Istrongly encourage them to do so
so what are you excited aboutin your, in your industry coming
in the next five years here?
Oh man what gives you that?
Oh man awesome technology okaytechnology like what we're
talking about exoskeleton that'sjust it.
Speaker 3 (31:12):
I think the evolving intelligence behind digitizing
accessibility is massive.
The capabilities that someonehas from their smartphone to
like unlock their door, to turnon their lights, turn off their
lights to add assistivelistening systems to spaces so
that people can actually hearconversations.
(31:32):
People who are blind again usingnavigational apps to get them
through a building or anexhibition like this.
Digitizing accessible PDFs sothat people can receive the
information they need inwhichever way it's endless, so
I'm super excited aboutaccessible innovation tech.
That's cool.
Yeah, you know there's.
So I'm super excited aboutaccessible innovation tech,
that's cool.
Speaker 1 (31:48):
Yeah, you know there's, so I'm going to give
you a compliment here.
Okay, so don't blush.
But I always find, like youknow, talking to people, you can
pretty much figure out ifthey're like a cerebral thinker
or not, and you're one of those.
Oh, I appreciate that, that'sreally cool, yeah, so I think
the industry is going to bebetter off and people are going
to thank you for everything thatyou've done.
So that's pretty cool, thankyou.
(32:09):
Yeah, so good luck witheverything.
How do people get ahold of you?
Speaker 3 (32:13):
Contact me at Samantha at abefactorscom.
You can go to wwwabefactorscomas well, but yeah, there's lots
of ways to get ahold of me.
Another cool thing that I wouldlike to bring up is that I'm
the co-author of a pretty neatbook called Building Better
Bathrooms, which is actually anAmazon bestseller.
So go check it out.
Speaker 1 (32:33):
That's cool.
Speaker 3 (32:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:34):
All right.
Well, thank you very much.
This has been very informativefor me and I'm sure everyone
will love this content.
So thank you very much.
Speaker 3 (32:39):
Awesome.
Thank you so much for having meRight on.
Speaker 1 (32:43):
Well, that does it for another episode of the Site
Visit.
Thank you for listening.
Be sure to stay connected withus by following our social
accounts on Instagram andYouTube.
You can also sign up for ourmonthly newsletter at
sitemaxsystemscom slash the sitevisit, where you'll get
industry insights, pro tips andeverything you need to know
about the site visit podcast andSiteMax, the job site and
(33:09):
construction management tool ofchoice for thousands of
contractors in North America andbeyond.
Sitemax is also the engine thatpowers this podcast.
All right, let's get back tobuilding.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Amy Robach & T.J. Holmes present: Aubrey O’Day, Covering the Diddy Trial
Introducing… Aubrey O’Day Diddy’s former protege, television personality, platinum selling music artist, Danity Kane alum Aubrey O’Day joins veteran journalists Amy Robach and TJ Holmes to provide a unique perspective on the trial that has captivated the attention of the nation. Join them throughout the trial as they discuss, debate, and dissect every detail, every aspect of the proceedings. Aubrey will offer her opinions and expertise, as only she is qualified to do given her first-hand knowledge. From her days on Making the Band, as she emerged as the breakout star, the truth of the situation would be the opposite of the glitz and glamour. Listen throughout every minute of the trial, for this exclusive coverage. Amy Robach and TJ Holmes present Aubrey O’Day, Covering the Diddy Trial, an iHeartRadio podcast.
Good Hang with Amy Poehler
Come hang with Amy Poehler. Each week on her podcast, she'll welcome celebrities and fun people to her studio. They'll share stories about their careers, mutual friends, shared enthusiasms, and most importantly, what's been making them laugh. This podcast is not about trying to make you better or giving advice. Amy just wants to have a good time.