July 26, 2024 • 26 mins
Have you ever kayaked Pictured Rocks? Meet one of the owners who can make this experience happen for you! Bill Duckwall, the owner of Paddling Michigan, recounts his journey from being a commercial pilot to establishing a thriving adventure company offering kayaking tours, lodging, and more in Munising, Michigan. He discusses the challenges of staffing in a small town, the expansion of his business to include various adventurous packages, and how listening to customers' needs has driven his business growth.
Links:
Paddling Michigan Website: https://www.paddlingmichigan.com/
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Show Notes:
00:00 Introduction and Initial Challenges
00:26 Welcome to Total Michigan
01:02 Meet Bill Duckwall of Paddling Michigan
01:15 What is Paddling Michigan?
02:02 The Beauty of Pictured Rocks
02:46 Bill's Background and Journey to Michigan
04:42 The Birth of Paddling Michigan
08:13 Expanding the Business
09:15 Challenges in Staffing
12:55 Uncle Ducky and Business Diversification
14:51 Vacation Packages and Offerings
22:09 Seasonal Operations and Charter Fishing
23:31 Listening to Customers and Final Thoughts
24:46 How to Find Paddling Michigan
25:42 Conclusion and Farewell
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Bill Duckwall (00:00):
Well, we've always had challenges finding people.
(00:03):
Because we, we employ almost ahundred people in the summer.
And, Munising is a town of 2, 000 people.
it's hard to find You know, ahundred, a hundred kayak guides.
I mean, these are like lifeguard people.
They're not, they're not justyour average Joe off the street.
But it's, that's the hardest partover here is just finding the people.
you just have to do whatyou have to do to get 'em
Cliff Duvernois (2) (00:26):
Hello everyone, and welcome back to Total Michigan,
where we interview ordinary Michigandersdoing some pretty extraordinary things.
I'm your host Cliff DuVernois.
Speaking of extraordinary Iam still on my trip around the
upper peninsula of Michigan.
I swear to God.
This is God's country.
One of the things that I loveto do in my free time is kayak.
(00:47):
And I knew that no tour of the UPwould be complete without talking to
one of the owners of probably one ofthe best kayaking experiences that
any of us could ever hope to have.
And with that being said, today I'mtalking with Bill Duckwall, owner of
(01:07):
Paddling Michigan, based out of Munising.
Bill, how are you?
Bill Duckwall (01:12):
Just fine.
Good morning Cliff.
Cliff Duvernois (2) (01:14):
Cliff.
Good morning.
So tell us, what is Paddling Michigan?
Bill Duckwall (01:19):
Paddling Michigan is, is an adventure company
based In Munising Michigan.
We offer kayaking tours, alongwith lodging, boat cruises,
canoe trips, and a restaurant.
we offer a package for every,everybody comes up here wants
to do some kind of adventure.
(01:40):
They've got to sleep at night.
And, and they got to eat something.
we try to provide packageswhere they can do all of that.
Or they can do it individually.
They don't have to do, doit all together with us.
So, we're, uh, owned as Paddling Michigan.
And that's our website, paddelingmichigan.
com.
That's who we are.
Cliff Duvernois (2) (02:01):
Nice.
And when we're talking about the kayaktours, just to make sure that we're
making this clear for the audience.
We're actually talking about going out to.
Bill Duckwall (02:09):
Pictured Rocks
Pictured Rocks.
Cliff Duvernois (2) (02:11):
Yes.
Oh my goodness.
Everybody and their brotherseems to be talking about this.
So you've really tappedinto something here.
Bill Duckwall (02:18):
Yeah, we have.
I mean, we've been, pretty lucky.
When we started doing this.
There wasn't a lot of people doingPictured Rocks then on any great scale.
it's something that westarted and it, and it grew.
And, it's, it's abeautiful place to kayak.
It's like going to paddling throughUtah or something out there with
the red rocks and, caves andwaterfalls and some wildlife.
(02:42):
And it's just a really great adventure.
Cliff Duvernois (2) (02:46):
Why don't you tell us where are you from?
Where did you grow up?
Bill Duckwall (02:50):
I grew up in Northern Indiana.
But I came up here in 1983.
Okay.
And I came up, I was a commercial pilot.
And I came up with a small airline thatstarted up here in Marquette and then
was purchased by a bit larger commercialairline that I ended up flying for.
(03:11):
that, that's how I got up here.
But I've always owned businesses.
even with almost 30 years inthe, as a commercial pilot, I
owned businesses on the side.
My grandfather was one of the firstautomobile dealers in the United States.
Knew Henry Ford, was in Indianapolis,Indiana, selling Model T Fords.
(03:33):
And, and my dad was afarm equipment dealer.
And, uh, I just continued that on.
I always liked it.
And even while I was flyingas a commercial pilot, I had a
lot of time off that I could dosmall businesses on the side.
So, when I retired from that,and I had to retire at the
age of 60, because I'm 81 now.
(03:55):
But that's when I really gotgoing with paddling Michigan.
Basically, it's all beendone in my retirement years.
Of course, I couldn't do, all of it.
I've had great staff.
I've had a great general managernamed Greg Scott that's been
with me, for about 15 years now.
(04:16):
We've been able to hire the right peopleand come up with the right products.
And, uh, was just kind of theguy behind the scenes, really.
Dealing with the capital typeexpenditures and things like that.
Greg ran the business more, but I stilllike it, and I like to, keep active in it.
I think it's good for my brain.
You know, it keeps mechallenges every day,
(04:39):
every day.
And, uh, I continue to keep going.
Cliff Duvernois (2) (04:42):
you mentioned before that it was really when
you had retired from being in theairlines that you really started
focusing more on Paddling Michigan.
So my first question to youwould be, where did the idea
come from for paddling Michigan?
Bill Duckwall (05:00):
Well, this is quite a story here.
But, but it's, it's kind of a neat one.
Okay.
While I was still flying, I owned afishing charter company in Marquette.
And we took people out fishing.
to, to a place called StandardRock, 50 miles out in Lake Superior.
But we would get oftenimpacted by weather, okay?
(05:23):
So we had clients would come upfrom downstate and from a distance.
They couldn't always go on theday they planned and everything.
So I maintained a fleet of smallboats and canoes that they could
use and take out, there, and then wealso rented those on the side, too.
Okay.
I believe it was like in 2003,I can't remember exactly, it
(05:46):
was just right after I retired.
Um, We had a big flood northwest ofMarquette, at a place called Silver Lake.
And that flood took out severaldams on the Dead River that ran
like 25 miles down into Marquette.
those, created a lot of damage.
(06:07):
I mean, they lost pontoons.
There, there were logs, treesactually floating out in the
Lake Superior and so forth.
about two weeks after that flood,I had a company call me from,
they had seen our website, okay?
Yeah, they'd seen our website.
And they saw that we rented canoes.
and needed, they needed to come outand do a survey of, the waters and the
(06:32):
damage that it caused and everything.
And so the gentleman, said,well, I'm gonna be there in
two weeks and I need 20 canoes.
Well, I only had two canoes.
Okay, so Yeah, and he said whatdo you you take American Express?
I said, yeah, and he said well, here'smy numbers We'll be there in two.
Here's my number.
We'll be there in two weeks
(06:53):
So yeah, I know so So we wentout and we bought 20 canoes.
We cleaned out every place inthe UP that was selling canoes.
And we bought them.
And they came.
rented them, and everything went fine.
And then it was all over.
They cleaned up and didtheir surveys and everything.
(07:13):
And we had 20 canoes sitting there thatwe had try to figure out what we're going
to sell these or we're going to rentor what we're going to do with them.
Cliff Duvernois (2) (07:19):
Right.
Bill Duckwall (07:20):
And, uh, we had a gentleman work, working for us that was a kayaker.
And he said, we really should,you should try Pictured Rocks.
A few people are doing that over there.
Well, we knew we couldn't dopictured rocks in, in canoes.
They're just not made for it.
So.
(07:40):
we traded those canoes,okay, for some kayaks.
And that's when we startedkayaking Pictured Rocks.
And we drove people over.
We had a little place in Marquette.
We drove people over andstarted kayaking there.
You know, that was about the sametime that, kayaking was coming
on, especially as a women's sport,with health and things like that.
(08:04):
it was, uh, perfect storm cametogether with this whole thing.
And it all came together,so we, started that.
And it just grew and grew, and then, werealized, people needed places to stay.
And that's when we got, and we thoughtthat most people that are kayakers
(08:24):
would probably, Not like to stayat, they'd probably rather stay in a
campground or like a tent or a yurt.
So they can camp and have acampfire and enjoy the outdoors.
As opposed to just staying ina motel or a hotel somewhere.
So that's why we got into that,slowly built that business up.
and Ended up doing that in a restaurant.
(08:46):
and then along the line we addeda cruise around, a dinner boat
cruise around Grand Island.
you know, which we runtwo trips a day on that.
I've been lucky.
I've been very lucky.
I've been, had the rightpeople at the right time.
And that's what it is.
It's luck having the rightpeople at the right time.
And I've made lots of bad decisions.
(09:07):
But I've made lots of good decisions.
so that's capitalism.
That's the United States.
Cliff Duvernois (2) (09:13):
That's the United
Bill Duckwall (09:14):
it is.
Cliff Duvernois (2) (09:15):
What I would like to do is I'd like to talk
about maybe like one or two of thekey challenges that you had when
you were building this business up.
Bill Duckwall (09:24):
Well, we've always had challenges finding people.
Because we, we employ almost ahundred people in the summer.
A hundred people with ourkayak guys and everything.
And, Munising is a town of 2, 000 people.
it's hard to find You know, ahundred, a hundred kayak guides.
I mean, these are like lifeguard people.
They're not, they're not justyour average Joe off the street.
(09:47):
I mean, they, they have tohave some swimming ability
and, and everything like that.
So we, what's helped us there is NorthernMichigan University in Marquette.
And that's where we get mostof our kayak guides from.
Okay.
And then, for other, other jobs, weuse a lot of work campers that come in.
(10:08):
They have RVs.
They come work for us in the summerat our campgrounds and everything.
And we, and then we hire, alwayshire, uh, a cadre of, girls from
Jamaica to work in our restaurant.
You know, a lot.
And along with locals, too.
But it's, that's the hardest partover here is just finding the people.
You know, so you just have to dowhat you have to do to get 'em
Cliff Duvernois (2) (10:31):
to get them.
You talked about going to NorthernMichigan to find kayak guides.
Where did you get that idea from?
Or was it just somebody justshowed up here and said, Hey, I
got a bunch of buddies over there
Bill Duckwall (10:46):
Well, Northern
Cliff Duvernois (2) (10:46):
too.
Bill Duckwall (10:47):
has an outdoor rec degree, outdoor rec, where they train.
people.
A lot of them will take, get adegree in that and go work for the
park service, you know, NationalPark Service and things like that.
These are, they're,these are outdoor people.
You know, and they live up here.
we bus them.
We, or we transport them from Marquette.
They don't have to drive over here.
(11:09):
It's about 45 miles.
And so we were lucky.
I mean, we couldn't do it.
I don't think we could beanywhere near the size we are.
If we didn't have that.
Cliff Duvernois (2) (11:20):
that.
But that's just to think about that fora second, because when I think about
taking a kayak tour and the people thatare going out, I would not think that
there's 100 people working behind thescenes to be able to make this happen.
Bill Duckwall (11:34):
Yep.
Cliff Duvernois (2) (11:35):
Have you ever had a business where you had this many people
Bill Duckwall (11:37):
no, not at all.
Not at all.
That's why I have to have help, you know.
Greg Scott, throw it back on Greg.
He's the guy that makes it all.
He's the guy that makes it run.
And then we have some submanagers under Greg, too.
Miles Glendening is our kayak manager.
Rob Stibbs is our maintenance manager.
Cause we have like 25vehicles, and two boats.
(11:59):
And, and, uh, so Rob keeps busy onthat and everything and it's, it's,
you gotta have the right people.
Cliff Duvernois (2) (12:08):
For our audience, we're going to take a
quick break and thank our sponsors.
When we come back, we're going to talk toBill a lot more about Paddling Michigan.
Also what you can expectwhen you come here.
We'll see after the break.
Are you enjoying this episode?
Well, I can tell youthere's a lot more to come.
Jump over to TotalMichigan.
com, enter your email address,and get on our mailing list.
(12:29):
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Hello everyone and welcome back toTotal Michigan where we interview
ordinary Michiganders doing somepretty extraordinary things.
I'm your host Cliff DuVernois.
Today we're talking with BillDuckwall, owner of Paddling Michigan.
(12:55):
And Bill one of the things that Iwas looking at on your website that
kind of caught my eye and I gottaask you about this because it's
something I just don't see every day.
But up there near the top of your websiteyou got Uncle Ducky So talk to us.
What is Uncle Ducky?
Where did that come from?
Bill Duckwall (13:14):
Well, you know, our company name is Uncle Ducky Outdoors, LLC.
Okay, that's where that came.
So where did Uncle Ducky come from?
When I first moved up to Marquetteto work for this small airline,
I was about 40 years old then.
But most of the young pilots workingthere and the flight attendants that
(13:36):
I worked with and everything weremore in their early 20s, I guess.
Okay.
So, I was the, I think, the ageof their, maybe their uncles.
they recognized me as somebody beinga little bit older, or so forth.
And, somehow one of themstarted calling me Uncle Ducky.
(13:57):
So, when I would fly with thesecrews and everything, they
would call me Uncle Ducky.
So it actually started, that actuallystarted from my airline days.
And then when I started Uncle Duckycharters, which is the fishing
charter business in Marquette,that was Uncle Ducky Charters.
Okay.
And then, and then as we grew, as we grew,we changed that to Uncle Ducky Outdoors.
(14:21):
And that's when we got into the kayakingand the campgrounds and so forth.
Cliff Duvernois (2) (14:25):
And it's just something that you
brought with you over these
Bill Duckwall (14:27):
Yeah, it's, it's a, I think, I guess it's a catchy name.
And, so we use it.
Cliff Duvernois (2) (14:32):
Because you, you've mentioned A bunch of different things.
You've got kayaking, you've gotcanoeing, you mentioned camping.
Talk to us about, talk about being aserial entrepreneur, but talk to us about
the different businesses, the differentpackages that you have through your
Bill Duckwall (14:51):
Okay, well we have several, several different
vacation packages, we call them.
And as I said before, you don'thave to buy a vacation package.
You can just go kayaking withus or you can just stay at our
campgrounds or motel or whatever.
But basically, they all include,will include a kayaking trip
along the Pictured Rocks.
(15:12):
And we have severaldifferent trips, you know.
We have our big trip is called thePaddling Hike, where you paddle the
entire distance of the Pictured Rocks.
And then, it's twelve, twelvemiles, the rock portion.
And then you end up at Chapel Beach.
And then you hike out aboutthree miles from there.
After you've been sitting all day, youget to exercise a little bit walking out.
(15:34):
And then we pick you up inour bus and take you back.
So that's our paddling hike.
And that's an all day trip.
Okay.
And then, we have another trip calledthe Paddler's Choice that we run
twice or three times a day, actually.
And that goes down to about halfway.
It goes down to Lover's Leap Arch,which is the big arch that you
(15:57):
see that most people want to see.
And then we have a lunch downthere at the Mosquito River.
And then paddle back.
Okay.
That's about a six hour trip.
And then we have a three hour trip.
that is called the Taste of the Rocks.
That goes along, some of the paintedrock area where you see all the
(16:17):
striping and all the different colors.
You get to see all those colorsand a lot of neat coves and
some small caves in there.
Bridal Veil Falls is abig one that you'll see.
And do that.
And that's, it's just shorter.
It's three hours for people whodon't want to spend all day.
and then the shortest one wehave is our two hour trip.
(16:37):
And that's around Miner's Castle.
And Miner's Castle's got alot of caves underneath of it.
So you can paddle intothose caves and everything.
That's just a, that'sjust a two hour trip.
So that's the kayaking end of it.
If you want to stay with us onthe same package, you have an
option to stay in either of ourcampgrounds, Awtrain Beach Campground
(16:59):
or Paddler's Village Campground.
Those campgrounds, AwtrainBeach is our biggest.
At that campground, we've gotyurts, and we've got platform
tents, more like a safari tent, orErnest Hemingway type African tent.
We've got teepees,Native American teepees.
(17:20):
And we've got campsites whereyou can pitch your own tent.
But all, everything there, weprovide all the beds, furniture
in there and everything.
You need to bring your own bedding.
Okay.
And that's Autry Beach.
And then Paddler'sVillage is in Christmas.
and Auturain, by the way, AuturainBeach is, is just across the road
(17:42):
from one of the most beautifulbeaches in Lake Superior.
Right.
South, there at Auturain Bay.
Paddler's Village is in Christmas.
And that is right on the water.
Okay, so you can actually go down.
We have a big dock there, and that'swhere our boat cruises run from.
Also, okay.
And there we have, we have theplatform tents and the yurts.
(18:06):
We have Paddlers Inn Motel.
Okay, so we bought a small motel onthere because we did, we have a lot
of clients, to backtrack a littlebit, the restrooms, the showers
and everything, at our campgrounds,they're all common, like they are.
You know, they're, they're, but wehave a lot of people that want their
own restroom facilities and so forth.
(18:26):
So that's why we bought the motel.
So they have that.
We've put some yurts in the back of that.
Okay.
you know, if you want to have yourown restroom and everything, then
you would stay at the motel orour new location here in Munising,
which is called Pictures Rock Yurts.
they also have their own restroomfacilities and everything.
(18:48):
But all of you can stillhave a campfires outside.
You can grill outside.
We have grills.
We have picnic tables out there.
you get that experience, as opposed,you can't do that in a motel.
You know, you can't build a fire infront of your room in a hotel or a motel.
along from there, we bought.
There was a restaurant for sale,right near our, our Paddler's Village.
(19:12):
Okay.
So we bought, that restaurant.
We remodeled it.
We put a big beer garden out in back.
So it's, you know, it'sopen air and everything.
We call that the Duck Pond.
And we call that the Duck Pondbecause, because that was a common
term used from all of our kayakers.
(19:32):
Our kayak guides have radios on them.
If they want to talk to the main office onthe radio, the call sign was at Duck Pond.
This is called our mainheadquarters here at the Duck Pond.
that's what we named the restaurant.
And at the restaurant, we serve, LakeSuperior Whitefish, all different types
of forms, burgers, salads, shrimp.
(19:55):
And we have about 30 different typesof Michigan craft beers, it's a
really cool restaurant to visit, too.
Cliff Duvernois (2) (20:03):
cause when you first started off you just had the kayaks,
but as you're adding these things like acampground and you talked about a motel
and you talked about a restaurant though.
this is basically the business growingAnd people asking for these things.
Bill Duckwall (20:18):
Right.
Cliff Duvernois (2) (20:18):
And then you're just like, okay.
Well, let's go ahead and add
Bill Duckwall (20:21):
Right.
Cliff Duvernois (2) (20:21):
to
Bill Duckwall (20:23):
didn't just blindly do it either.
You know, we looked at it that's whywe, then we started, the last thing
to mention is our dinner boat cruise.
That we have a, 50 passenger dinner boatcruise that we run around Grand Island,
which is right next to the Pictured Rocks.
It's got rocks tallerthan the Pictured Rocks.
And it's got a lot of history.
(20:43):
Because people live with there.
Ojibwe Indians live there.
There's just a lot of history.
It was a game farm at one time.
You'll all learn about that onthe tour going around there.
There's some waterfalls and, and,uh, It's just a neat ride and you get
a dinner with it in the duck pond.
you eat in the Duck Pond and thenwe go around the island with it too.
Cliff Duvernois (2) (21:08):
And then how many people do you have coming
through here in a season or maybeeven in a day for that matter
Bill Duckwall (21:17):
Depends on the year and everything, but we've
been as high as over 20 thousand.
Okay, and over, and on,on our kayaking trips.
But a lot of people, they'renot all going kayaking.
That's just kayaking.
As far as who stays in our motel andour campgrounds and our boat crews
(21:38):
and eats at the restaurant, They'renot all, they're not all kayakers.
So I would imagine 40, 50, 000people every year go through here.
that's not in a year.
That's in a hundred day period.
Our season basically runs from the middleof June through the middle of September.
That's about 90, a hundreddays, you know, so.
Cliff Duvernois (2) (22:00):
And then I guess the next question is based on
what you just said there if you gota hundred day business cycle what
do you do for the rest of the year?
Bill Duckwall (22:09):
We close it all down.
Cliff Duvernois (2) (22:10):
how did you start the charter fishing
business in the first place?
Bill Duckwall (22:14):
I grew up on a lake in Indiana.
I've had boats all my life, pretty much.
You know, I lived on the water.
I have a, Merchant MarineOfficer's License for near shore
in Great Lakes, so I, I got that.
Right.
It was It ran along with flying a lot.
It was, it was something that Icould study and learn and pass
(22:37):
all the tests and training for.
Because so much of it was the sameas, as navigation and weather and
that you get involved in flying too.
that's how I got into that.
and originally,
I mean the very first dayI bought, I bought a boat.
And I was just doingtours around Marquette.
Okay, a charter tours, but they weren'tnecessarily fishing, just sightseeing.
(23:02):
But everybody wanted to go fishing.
you follow the path, follow the money,you know, that's what they wanted to do.
So we turned it into fishing.
And I hired, I had a couple fishingcaptains that worked for me.
Because I was still flying then, I wasgone a lot, So that's how I got into that.
And that's how I, we got intothe boat cruises over here, too.
Cliff Duvernois (2) (23:24):
Sure
Bill Duckwall (23:24):
It's because I don't do the trips anymore.
But I have a license.
And could do it if I wanted to.
Cliff Duvernois (2) (23:31):
I'm loving this recurring theme throughout this
interview that you are basicallyjust listening to your customers,
Bill Duckwall (23:40):
Sure.
Cliff Duvernois (2) (23:40):
What they want, and then you just provide it to
Bill Duckwall (23:43):
Sure.
just because I like it don't meananybody, everybody else does, you
know.
That's I mean, there's alot of food that I like.
Some people probably don't.
But I would never, same in myrestaurant, I sell what people want.
Cliff Duvernois (2) (23:58):
that is one of the biggest things with sales
is just listening to what peoplewant and then giving it to them.
Is this something that youjust learned along the way?
Did somebody sit you down oneday and say, Hey, the secret
to sales is just listening.
Where did that come from?
Bill Duckwall (24:12):
Well, it is.
You know, I'll go back there.
When I first, I remember whenI talked about the flood.
Okay, and the guy calls mefrom North, from New Hampshire.
And he says, you know, I wantto and, uh, rent 20 canoes.
And here's my credit card.
I didn't say anything.
You know, I didn't tellhim I just had two canoes.
(24:35):
I let him talk and give me hiscredit card number and I listened.
And that's how it happened.
Cliff Duvernois (2) (24:40):
Right.
Bill Duckwall (24:41):
have to listen to people.
you probably need you need tolisten more than you need to talk.
Cliff Duvernois (2) (24:47):
And if somebody is listening to this and they want to come
and check out Paddling Michigan, wherecan they find you online in person?
Bill Duckwall (24:58):
Best way to find us is paddlingmichigan.
com That's our main website.
It's got all of our subsidiaries on it.
You know, it's got a cruises page.
It's got a lodging page.
It's got a kayaking page.
You know, it's all right on there.
It's very easy to use.
And that's the best way to find us online.
(25:21):
If you're in Munising, you know,we're at 1331 Western Munising
Avenue, is our headquarters.
And, you can come in to our, mainoffice in our gallery and everything.
You can see a lot of pictures andvideos of what we do and everything.
And that's right on the west end ofMunising, 1331 West Munising Avenue.
Cliff Duvernois (2) (25:42):
Bill thank you so much for taking
time to talk with us today.
Really do appreciate it.
Bill Duckwall (25:47):
Well, thank you, Cliff.
Cliff Duvernois (2) (25:48):
And for our audience you can always roll on
over to TotalMichigan.com, clickon Bills interview to get the
links that he mentioned above.
We'll see you next time whenanother Michigander doing some
pretty extraordinary things.
We'll see you then.
Well, we've always had challenges finding people.
(00:03):
Because we, we employ almost ahundred people in the summer.
And, Munising is a town of 2, 000 people.
it's hard to find You know, ahundred, a hundred kayak guides.
I mean, these are like lifeguard people.
They're not, they're not justyour average Joe off the street.
But it's, that's the hardest partover here is just finding the people.
you just have to do whatyou have to do to get 'em
Cliff Duvernois (2) (00:26):
Hello everyone, and welcome back to Total Michigan,
where we interview ordinary Michigandersdoing some pretty extraordinary things.
I'm your host Cliff DuVernois.
Speaking of extraordinary Iam still on my trip around the
upper peninsula of Michigan.
I swear to God.
This is God's country.
One of the things that I loveto do in my free time is kayak.
(00:47):
And I knew that no tour of the UPwould be complete without talking to
one of the owners of probably one ofthe best kayaking experiences that
any of us could ever hope to have.
And with that being said, today I'mtalking with Bill Duckwall, owner of
(01:07):
Paddling Michigan, based out of Munising.
Bill, how are you?
Bill Duckwall (01:12):
Just fine.
Good morning Cliff.
Cliff Duvernois (2) (01:14):
Cliff.
Good morning.
So tell us, what is Paddling Michigan?
Bill Duckwall (01:19):
Paddling Michigan is, is an adventure company
based In Munising Michigan.
We offer kayaking tours, alongwith lodging, boat cruises,
canoe trips, and a restaurant.
we offer a package for every,everybody comes up here wants
to do some kind of adventure.
(01:40):
They've got to sleep at night.
And, and they got to eat something.
we try to provide packageswhere they can do all of that.
Or they can do it individually.
They don't have to do, doit all together with us.
So, we're, uh, owned as Paddling Michigan.
And that's our website, paddelingmichigan.
com.
That's who we are.
Cliff Duvernois (2) (02:01):
Nice.
And when we're talking about the kayaktours, just to make sure that we're
making this clear for the audience.
We're actually talking about going out to.
Bill Duckwall (02:09):
Pictured Rocks
Pictured Rocks.
Cliff Duvernois (2) (02:11):
Yes.
Oh my goodness.
Everybody and their brotherseems to be talking about this.
So you've really tappedinto something here.
Bill Duckwall (02:18):
Yeah, we have.
I mean, we've been, pretty lucky.
When we started doing this.
There wasn't a lot of people doingPictured Rocks then on any great scale.
it's something that westarted and it, and it grew.
And, it's, it's abeautiful place to kayak.
It's like going to paddling throughUtah or something out there with
the red rocks and, caves andwaterfalls and some wildlife.
(02:42):
And it's just a really great adventure.
Cliff Duvernois (2) (02:46):
Why don't you tell us where are you from?
Where did you grow up?
Bill Duckwall (02:50):
I grew up in Northern Indiana.
But I came up here in 1983.
Okay.
And I came up, I was a commercial pilot.
And I came up with a small airline thatstarted up here in Marquette and then
was purchased by a bit larger commercialairline that I ended up flying for.
(03:11):
that, that's how I got up here.
But I've always owned businesses.
even with almost 30 years inthe, as a commercial pilot, I
owned businesses on the side.
My grandfather was one of the firstautomobile dealers in the United States.
Knew Henry Ford, was in Indianapolis,Indiana, selling Model T Fords.
(03:33):
And, and my dad was afarm equipment dealer.
And, uh, I just continued that on.
I always liked it.
And even while I was flyingas a commercial pilot, I had a
lot of time off that I could dosmall businesses on the side.
So, when I retired from that,and I had to retire at the
age of 60, because I'm 81 now.
(03:55):
But that's when I really gotgoing with paddling Michigan.
Basically, it's all beendone in my retirement years.
Of course, I couldn't do, all of it.
I've had great staff.
I've had a great general managernamed Greg Scott that's been
with me, for about 15 years now.
(04:16):
We've been able to hire the right peopleand come up with the right products.
And, uh, was just kind of theguy behind the scenes, really.
Dealing with the capital typeexpenditures and things like that.
Greg ran the business more, but I stilllike it, and I like to, keep active in it.
I think it's good for my brain.
You know, it keeps mechallenges every day,
(04:39):
every day.
And, uh, I continue to keep going.
Cliff Duvernois (2) (04:42):
you mentioned before that it was really when
you had retired from being in theairlines that you really started
focusing more on Paddling Michigan.
So my first question to youwould be, where did the idea
come from for paddling Michigan?
Bill Duckwall (05:00):
Well, this is quite a story here.
But, but it's, it's kind of a neat one.
Okay.
While I was still flying, I owned afishing charter company in Marquette.
And we took people out fishing.
to, to a place called StandardRock, 50 miles out in Lake Superior.
But we would get oftenimpacted by weather, okay?
(05:23):
So we had clients would come upfrom downstate and from a distance.
They couldn't always go on theday they planned and everything.
So I maintained a fleet of smallboats and canoes that they could
use and take out, there, and then wealso rented those on the side, too.
Okay.
I believe it was like in 2003,I can't remember exactly, it
(05:46):
was just right after I retired.
Um, We had a big flood northwest ofMarquette, at a place called Silver Lake.
And that flood took out severaldams on the Dead River that ran
like 25 miles down into Marquette.
those, created a lot of damage.
(06:07):
I mean, they lost pontoons.
There, there were logs, treesactually floating out in the
Lake Superior and so forth.
about two weeks after that flood,I had a company call me from,
they had seen our website, okay?
Yeah, they'd seen our website.
And they saw that we rented canoes.
and needed, they needed to come outand do a survey of, the waters and the
(06:32):
damage that it caused and everything.
And so the gentleman, said,well, I'm gonna be there in
two weeks and I need 20 canoes.
Well, I only had two canoes.
Okay, so Yeah, and he said whatdo you you take American Express?
I said, yeah, and he said well, here'smy numbers We'll be there in two.
Here's my number.
We'll be there in two weeks
(06:53):
So yeah, I know so So we wentout and we bought 20 canoes.
We cleaned out every place inthe UP that was selling canoes.
And we bought them.
And they came.
rented them, and everything went fine.
And then it was all over.
They cleaned up and didtheir surveys and everything.
(07:13):
And we had 20 canoes sitting there thatwe had try to figure out what we're going
to sell these or we're going to rentor what we're going to do with them.
Cliff Duvernois (2) (07:19):
Right.
Bill Duckwall (07:20):
And, uh, we had a gentleman work, working for us that was a kayaker.
And he said, we really should,you should try Pictured Rocks.
A few people are doing that over there.
Well, we knew we couldn't dopictured rocks in, in canoes.
They're just not made for it.
So.
(07:40):
we traded those canoes,okay, for some kayaks.
And that's when we startedkayaking Pictured Rocks.
And we drove people over.
We had a little place in Marquette.
We drove people over andstarted kayaking there.
You know, that was about the sametime that, kayaking was coming
on, especially as a women's sport,with health and things like that.
(08:04):
it was, uh, perfect storm cametogether with this whole thing.
And it all came together,so we, started that.
And it just grew and grew, and then, werealized, people needed places to stay.
And that's when we got, and we thoughtthat most people that are kayakers
(08:24):
would probably, Not like to stayat, they'd probably rather stay in a
campground or like a tent or a yurt.
So they can camp and have acampfire and enjoy the outdoors.
As opposed to just staying ina motel or a hotel somewhere.
So that's why we got into that,slowly built that business up.
and Ended up doing that in a restaurant.
(08:46):
and then along the line we addeda cruise around, a dinner boat
cruise around Grand Island.
you know, which we runtwo trips a day on that.
I've been lucky.
I've been very lucky.
I've been, had the rightpeople at the right time.
And that's what it is.
It's luck having the rightpeople at the right time.
And I've made lots of bad decisions.
(09:07):
But I've made lots of good decisions.
so that's capitalism.
That's the United States.
Cliff Duvernois (2) (09:13):
That's the United
Bill Duckwall (09:14):
it is.
Cliff Duvernois (2) (09:15):
What I would like to do is I'd like to talk
about maybe like one or two of thekey challenges that you had when
you were building this business up.
Bill Duckwall (09:24):
Well, we've always had challenges finding people.
Because we, we employ almost ahundred people in the summer.
A hundred people with ourkayak guys and everything.
And, Munising is a town of 2, 000 people.
it's hard to find You know, ahundred, a hundred kayak guides.
I mean, these are like lifeguard people.
They're not, they're not justyour average Joe off the street.
(09:47):
I mean, they, they have tohave some swimming ability
and, and everything like that.
So we, what's helped us there is NorthernMichigan University in Marquette.
And that's where we get mostof our kayak guides from.
Okay.
And then, for other, other jobs, weuse a lot of work campers that come in.
(10:08):
They have RVs.
They come work for us in the summerat our campgrounds and everything.
And we, and then we hire, alwayshire, uh, a cadre of, girls from
Jamaica to work in our restaurant.
You know, a lot.
And along with locals, too.
But it's, that's the hardest partover here is just finding the people.
You know, so you just have to dowhat you have to do to get 'em
Cliff Duvernois (2) (10:31):
to get them.
You talked about going to NorthernMichigan to find kayak guides.
Where did you get that idea from?
Or was it just somebody justshowed up here and said, Hey, I
got a bunch of buddies over there
Bill Duckwall (10:46):
Well, Northern
Cliff Duvernois (2) (10:46):
too.
Bill Duckwall (10:47):
has an outdoor rec degree, outdoor rec, where they train.
people.
A lot of them will take, get adegree in that and go work for the
park service, you know, NationalPark Service and things like that.
These are, they're,these are outdoor people.
You know, and they live up here.
we bus them.
We, or we transport them from Marquette.
They don't have to drive over here.
(11:09):
It's about 45 miles.
And so we were lucky.
I mean, we couldn't do it.
I don't think we could beanywhere near the size we are.
If we didn't have that.
Cliff Duvernois (2) (11:20):
that.
But that's just to think about that fora second, because when I think about
taking a kayak tour and the people thatare going out, I would not think that
there's 100 people working behind thescenes to be able to make this happen.
Bill Duckwall (11:34):
Yep.
Cliff Duvernois (2) (11:35):
Have you ever had a business where you had this many people
Bill Duckwall (11:37):
no, not at all.
Not at all.
That's why I have to have help, you know.
Greg Scott, throw it back on Greg.
He's the guy that makes it all.
He's the guy that makes it run.
And then we have some submanagers under Greg, too.
Miles Glendening is our kayak manager.
Rob Stibbs is our maintenance manager.
Cause we have like 25vehicles, and two boats.
(11:59):
And, and, uh, so Rob keeps busy onthat and everything and it's, it's,
you gotta have the right people.
Cliff Duvernois (2) (12:08):
For our audience, we're going to take a
quick break and thank our sponsors.
When we come back, we're going to talk toBill a lot more about Paddling Michigan.
Also what you can expectwhen you come here.
We'll see after the break.
Are you enjoying this episode?
Well, I can tell youthere's a lot more to come.
Jump over to TotalMichigan.
com, enter your email address,and get on our mailing list.
(12:29):
You'll get a list of the topfive episodes for the show.
Along with that, you'll getall kinds of behind the scenes
goodies, as well as upcoming guestnotifications, and so much more.
Just go over to TotalMichigan.
com, enter your email address today.
Hello everyone and welcome back toTotal Michigan where we interview
ordinary Michiganders doing somepretty extraordinary things.
I'm your host Cliff DuVernois.
Today we're talking with BillDuckwall, owner of Paddling Michigan.
(12:55):
And Bill one of the things that Iwas looking at on your website that
kind of caught my eye and I gottaask you about this because it's
something I just don't see every day.
But up there near the top of your websiteyou got Uncle Ducky So talk to us.
What is Uncle Ducky?
Where did that come from?
Bill Duckwall (13:14):
Well, you know, our company name is Uncle Ducky Outdoors, LLC.
Okay, that's where that came.
So where did Uncle Ducky come from?
When I first moved up to Marquetteto work for this small airline,
I was about 40 years old then.
But most of the young pilots workingthere and the flight attendants that
(13:36):
I worked with and everything weremore in their early 20s, I guess.
Okay.
So, I was the, I think, the ageof their, maybe their uncles.
they recognized me as somebody beinga little bit older, or so forth.
And, somehow one of themstarted calling me Uncle Ducky.
(13:57):
So, when I would fly with thesecrews and everything, they
would call me Uncle Ducky.
So it actually started, that actuallystarted from my airline days.
And then when I started Uncle Duckycharters, which is the fishing
charter business in Marquette,that was Uncle Ducky Charters.
Okay.
And then, and then as we grew, as we grew,we changed that to Uncle Ducky Outdoors.
(14:21):
And that's when we got into the kayakingand the campgrounds and so forth.
Cliff Duvernois (2) (14:25):
And it's just something that you
brought with you over these
Bill Duckwall (14:27):
Yeah, it's, it's a, I think, I guess it's a catchy name.
And, so we use it.
Cliff Duvernois (2) (14:32):
Because you, you've mentioned A bunch of different things.
You've got kayaking, you've gotcanoeing, you mentioned camping.
Talk to us about, talk about being aserial entrepreneur, but talk to us about
the different businesses, the differentpackages that you have through your
Bill Duckwall (14:51):
Okay, well we have several, several different
vacation packages, we call them.
And as I said before, you don'thave to buy a vacation package.
You can just go kayaking withus or you can just stay at our
campgrounds or motel or whatever.
But basically, they all include,will include a kayaking trip
along the Pictured Rocks.
(15:12):
And we have severaldifferent trips, you know.
We have our big trip is called thePaddling Hike, where you paddle the
entire distance of the Pictured Rocks.
And then, it's twelve, twelvemiles, the rock portion.
And then you end up at Chapel Beach.
And then you hike out aboutthree miles from there.
After you've been sitting all day, youget to exercise a little bit walking out.
(15:34):
And then we pick you up inour bus and take you back.
So that's our paddling hike.
And that's an all day trip.
Okay.
And then, we have another trip calledthe Paddler's Choice that we run
twice or three times a day, actually.
And that goes down to about halfway.
It goes down to Lover's Leap Arch,which is the big arch that you
(15:57):
see that most people want to see.
And then we have a lunch downthere at the Mosquito River.
And then paddle back.
Okay.
That's about a six hour trip.
And then we have a three hour trip.
that is called the Taste of the Rocks.
That goes along, some of the paintedrock area where you see all the
(16:17):
striping and all the different colors.
You get to see all those colorsand a lot of neat coves and
some small caves in there.
Bridal Veil Falls is abig one that you'll see.
And do that.
And that's, it's just shorter.
It's three hours for people whodon't want to spend all day.
and then the shortest one wehave is our two hour trip.
(16:37):
And that's around Miner's Castle.
And Miner's Castle's got alot of caves underneath of it.
So you can paddle intothose caves and everything.
That's just a, that'sjust a two hour trip.
So that's the kayaking end of it.
If you want to stay with us onthe same package, you have an
option to stay in either of ourcampgrounds, Awtrain Beach Campground
(16:59):
or Paddler's Village Campground.
Those campgrounds, AwtrainBeach is our biggest.
At that campground, we've gotyurts, and we've got platform
tents, more like a safari tent, orErnest Hemingway type African tent.
We've got teepees,Native American teepees.
(17:20):
And we've got campsites whereyou can pitch your own tent.
But all, everything there, weprovide all the beds, furniture
in there and everything.
You need to bring your own bedding.
Okay.
And that's Autry Beach.
And then Paddler'sVillage is in Christmas.
and Auturain, by the way, AuturainBeach is, is just across the road
(17:42):
from one of the most beautifulbeaches in Lake Superior.
Right.
South, there at Auturain Bay.
Paddler's Village is in Christmas.
And that is right on the water.
Okay, so you can actually go down.
We have a big dock there, and that'swhere our boat cruises run from.
Also, okay.
And there we have, we have theplatform tents and the yurts.
(18:06):
We have Paddlers Inn Motel.
Okay, so we bought a small motel onthere because we did, we have a lot
of clients, to backtrack a littlebit, the restrooms, the showers
and everything, at our campgrounds,they're all common, like they are.
You know, they're, they're, but wehave a lot of people that want their
own restroom facilities and so forth.
(18:26):
So that's why we bought the motel.
So they have that.
We've put some yurts in the back of that.
Okay.
you know, if you want to have yourown restroom and everything, then
you would stay at the motel orour new location here in Munising,
which is called Pictures Rock Yurts.
they also have their own restroomfacilities and everything.
(18:48):
But all of you can stillhave a campfires outside.
You can grill outside.
We have grills.
We have picnic tables out there.
you get that experience, as opposed,you can't do that in a motel.
You know, you can't build a fire infront of your room in a hotel or a motel.
along from there, we bought.
There was a restaurant for sale,right near our, our Paddler's Village.
(19:12):
Okay.
So we bought, that restaurant.
We remodeled it.
We put a big beer garden out in back.
So it's, you know, it'sopen air and everything.
We call that the Duck Pond.
And we call that the Duck Pondbecause, because that was a common
term used from all of our kayakers.
(19:32):
Our kayak guides have radios on them.
If they want to talk to the main office onthe radio, the call sign was at Duck Pond.
This is called our mainheadquarters here at the Duck Pond.
that's what we named the restaurant.
And at the restaurant, we serve, LakeSuperior Whitefish, all different types
of forms, burgers, salads, shrimp.
(19:55):
And we have about 30 different typesof Michigan craft beers, it's a
really cool restaurant to visit, too.
Cliff Duvernois (2) (20:03):
cause when you first started off you just had the kayaks,
but as you're adding these things like acampground and you talked about a motel
and you talked about a restaurant though.
this is basically the business growingAnd people asking for these things.
Bill Duckwall (20:18):
Right.
Cliff Duvernois (2) (20:18):
And then you're just like, okay.
Well, let's go ahead and add
Bill Duckwall (20:21):
Right.
Cliff Duvernois (2) (20:21):
to
Bill Duckwall (20:23):
didn't just blindly do it either.
You know, we looked at it that's whywe, then we started, the last thing
to mention is our dinner boat cruise.
That we have a, 50 passenger dinner boatcruise that we run around Grand Island,
which is right next to the Pictured Rocks.
It's got rocks tallerthan the Pictured Rocks.
And it's got a lot of history.
(20:43):
Because people live with there.
Ojibwe Indians live there.
There's just a lot of history.
It was a game farm at one time.
You'll all learn about that onthe tour going around there.
There's some waterfalls and, and,uh, It's just a neat ride and you get
a dinner with it in the duck pond.
you eat in the Duck Pond and thenwe go around the island with it too.
Cliff Duvernois (2) (21:08):
And then how many people do you have coming
through here in a season or maybeeven in a day for that matter
Bill Duckwall (21:17):
Depends on the year and everything, but we've
been as high as over 20 thousand.
Okay, and over, and on,on our kayaking trips.
But a lot of people, they'renot all going kayaking.
That's just kayaking.
As far as who stays in our motel andour campgrounds and our boat crews
(21:38):
and eats at the restaurant, They'renot all, they're not all kayakers.
So I would imagine 40, 50, 000people every year go through here.
that's not in a year.
That's in a hundred day period.
Our season basically runs from the middleof June through the middle of September.
That's about 90, a hundreddays, you know, so.
Cliff Duvernois (2) (22:00):
And then I guess the next question is based on
what you just said there if you gota hundred day business cycle what
do you do for the rest of the year?
Bill Duckwall (22:09):
We close it all down.
Cliff Duvernois (2) (22:10):
how did you start the charter fishing
business in the first place?
Bill Duckwall (22:14):
I grew up on a lake in Indiana.
I've had boats all my life, pretty much.
You know, I lived on the water.
I have a, Merchant MarineOfficer's License for near shore
in Great Lakes, so I, I got that.
Right.
It was It ran along with flying a lot.
It was, it was something that Icould study and learn and pass
(22:37):
all the tests and training for.
Because so much of it was the sameas, as navigation and weather and
that you get involved in flying too.
that's how I got into that.
and originally,
I mean the very first dayI bought, I bought a boat.
And I was just doingtours around Marquette.
Okay, a charter tours, but they weren'tnecessarily fishing, just sightseeing.
(23:02):
But everybody wanted to go fishing.
you follow the path, follow the money,you know, that's what they wanted to do.
So we turned it into fishing.
And I hired, I had a couple fishingcaptains that worked for me.
Because I was still flying then, I wasgone a lot, So that's how I got into that.
And that's how I, we got intothe boat cruises over here, too.
Cliff Duvernois (2) (23:24):
Sure
Bill Duckwall (23:24):
It's because I don't do the trips anymore.
But I have a license.
And could do it if I wanted to.
Cliff Duvernois (2) (23:31):
I'm loving this recurring theme throughout this
interview that you are basicallyjust listening to your customers,
Bill Duckwall (23:40):
Sure.
Cliff Duvernois (2) (23:40):
What they want, and then you just provide it to
Bill Duckwall (23:43):
Sure.
just because I like it don't meananybody, everybody else does, you
know.
That's I mean, there's alot of food that I like.
Some people probably don't.
But I would never, same in myrestaurant, I sell what people want.
Cliff Duvernois (2) (23:58):
that is one of the biggest things with sales
is just listening to what peoplewant and then giving it to them.
Is this something that youjust learned along the way?
Did somebody sit you down oneday and say, Hey, the secret
to sales is just listening.
Where did that come from?
Bill Duckwall (24:12):
Well, it is.
You know, I'll go back there.
When I first, I remember whenI talked about the flood.
Okay, and the guy calls mefrom North, from New Hampshire.
And he says, you know, I wantto and, uh, rent 20 canoes.
And here's my credit card.
I didn't say anything.
You know, I didn't tellhim I just had two canoes.
(24:35):
I let him talk and give me hiscredit card number and I listened.
And that's how it happened.
Cliff Duvernois (2) (24:40):
Right.
Bill Duckwall (24:41):
have to listen to people.
you probably need you need tolisten more than you need to talk.
Cliff Duvernois (2) (24:47):
And if somebody is listening to this and they want to come
and check out Paddling Michigan, wherecan they find you online in person?
Bill Duckwall (24:58):
Best way to find us is paddlingmichigan.
com That's our main website.
It's got all of our subsidiaries on it.
You know, it's got a cruises page.
It's got a lodging page.
It's got a kayaking page.
You know, it's all right on there.
It's very easy to use.
And that's the best way to find us online.
(25:21):
If you're in Munising, you know,we're at 1331 Western Munising
Avenue, is our headquarters.
And, you can come in to our, mainoffice in our gallery and everything.
You can see a lot of pictures andvideos of what we do and everything.
And that's right on the west end ofMunising, 1331 West Munising Avenue.
Cliff Duvernois (2) (25:42):
Bill thank you so much for taking
time to talk with us today.
Really do appreciate it.
Bill Duckwall (25:47):
Well, thank you, Cliff.
Cliff Duvernois (2) (25:48):
And for our audience you can always roll on
over to TotalMichigan.com, clickon Bills interview to get the
links that he mentioned above.
We'll see you next time whenanother Michigander doing some
pretty extraordinary things.
We'll see you then.
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Decisions, Decisions
Welcome to "Decisions, Decisions," the podcast where boundaries are pushed, and conversations get candid! Join your favorite hosts, Mandii B and WeezyWTF, as they dive deep into the world of non-traditional relationships and explore the often-taboo topics surrounding dating, sex, and love. Every Monday, Mandii and Weezy invite you to unlearn the outdated narratives dictated by traditional patriarchal norms. With a blend of humor, vulnerability, and authenticity, they share their personal journeys navigating their 30s, tackling the complexities of modern relationships, and engaging in thought-provoking discussions that challenge societal expectations. From groundbreaking interviews with diverse guests to relatable stories that resonate with your experiences, "Decisions, Decisions" is your go-to source for open dialogue about what it truly means to love and connect in today's world. Get ready to reshape your understanding of relationships and embrace the freedom of authentic connections—tune in and join the conversation!