September 17, 2024 • 59 mins
Unlock the secrets to discerning fact from fiction in the chaotic realm of online information! Join us as we sit down with Very Special Guest Leslie McClane, LPC, alongside our host Lindsay McClane and co-host Christopher Patchet, LCSW, for a compelling discussion on navigating the ethics of social media content. Leslie, with her vast experience as both a therapist and a college professor, shares invaluable insights on evaluating the credibility of therapeutic advice online. From the subtle dangers of clickbait to identifying ethical versus unethical social media posts, this episode tackles the rising tide of misleading information head-on.
Ever wondered how to spot dubious online figures like the notorious "Dr. Judith"? This episode is your essential guide to assessing the credibility of online sources, particularly in the sensitive area of mental health. We shed light on the ethical responsibilities that mental health professionals carry and the pitfalls of making quick judgments based on superficial social media content. Through real-world examples and the exploration of complex issues like gaslighting, we emphasize the importance of skepticism and careful consideration when navigating the digital landscape.
Dive deep into the manipulative tactics employed by some online content creators and learn how to protect yourself from deceptive information. We uncover the insidious nature of content that captures personal data and the generational differences in technology perception and susceptibility to scams. Reflecting on historical events and their impact on conspiracy theories, we aim to equip our listeners with the critical thinking skills necessary to recognize and combat misinformation. Tune in to become a more informed and discerning digital citizen.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Hi and welcome to the Toxic Cooking Show, where we
break down toxic people intotheir simplest ingredients.
I'm your host for this week,lindsay McLean, and with me is
my co-host number one.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Christopher Patchett, LCSW.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
And with me is my co-host number two.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
Oh my God.
Hello, I'm your co-host numbertwo.
I'm Leslie McLean, LPC, andjust happened to be Lindsay's
mom.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Oh my God, I told you I had a surprise.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
Uh-huh, hello, surprise, hello, hello.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Do you know how hard I work to not say anything about
the fact that my mom was comingand the fact that months ago I
told her that we hosted thispodcast together and that I
wanted her to join us for anepisode?
Speaker 2 (01:20):
oh my god, because, okay.
So, so we do these.
Usually we'll record two at atime, and then, when I came on
today, I was going to do theepisode that I do first, and
then Lindsay was like no, no, no, no, I got a surprise, let's do
(01:41):
mine first.
I'm like okay, okay, pushy, butfine, this is definitely a
surprise.
You know like, let's do minefirst.
I'm like okay, okay, Okay,pushy but fine, this is
definitely a surprise.
Speaker 3 (01:50):
So, and I actually have somewhere I have to be at a
certain point.
So that's why she was like, sowe have to do this one first.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Let's go now.
Okay, now I'm like twice asmuch like curious of what we're
going to be talking about here.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
So we are going to be talking about.
Let me pull up my beautifulnotes here.
I hope you know I had to makethem really big.
As a fellow person with glasses, you understand that I usually
have the regular size on thereand I was showing my mom ahead
of time.
She was like make them bigger.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
I can't see it.
No, make it, no, make it.
Can't read the notes, so butbefore, yeah, I tried doing the
uh, I tried doing like theregular notes, uh, like the
first uh one that we did, and Iwas sitting there the entire
time being like yeah, and thenblah, blah, blah.
Yeah, that was one of the firstthings I learned about when we
started doing podcasts.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
So, before we get into the topic, I don't know if
you wanted to talk about yourbackground at all or you wish to
remain a mystery.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
So I can say a little bit about my background without
going into too much detail.
Going into too much detail, soI have years of experience as a
therapist, doing a lot ofindividual and group therapy and
a lot of crisis response work,and also working as a college
professor.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
So I figured that that was especially useful for
today's topic, where we'retalking about when you see
information online, how do Iknow if it's legit or not?
Because that's a commonquestion that I think we've run
across with a lot of the mediathat certainly you and I are
talking about on these episodesand just in general, because
(03:36):
it's everywhere.
It's not just Instagram andTikTok, it's Facebook, it's even
legitimate news sources likeCNN, the New York Times.
Sometimes you're reading theheadline and you're like it's a
little misleading, it's a littlebiased.
No, don't you guys think so?
Yeah, I mean clickbait.
It's been around for a while,misleading headlines have been
(03:59):
around for a while, but I thinksocial media has really just
absolutely made it get reallybad, because you can create so
much stuff and put it out thereand other people can.
Then you know stitch that youlose all of the background
information that maybe theoriginal post had.
Maybe the original post didn'thave any background information.
(04:21):
That certainly happens quite abit.
So you actually had a projectthat you had your students do
for just this past semester.
Yes, okay.
Speaker 3 (04:31):
Yeah, so it's a class on ethics and so we were
talking about.
You know, how can you applyethics in real life rather than
just looking at the theory andcase studies?
And I said well, you know,there's all this information out
there on social media that hasto do with helping people, and
some of it's ethical and some ofit's really unethical.
(04:53):
So now's your chance.
In a small group, you have tofind on social media an example
of something that you think iseither incredibly unethical or
incredibly ethical and you haveto present it to the class.
They had 20 minutes per groupto do this and you have to,
(05:16):
using the framework of aprofessional code of ethics, you
have to justify is it ethicalor is it unethical?
And you have to look at who'sthe source and what do they know
about what they're talkingabout.
And you have to generate adiscussion in the class to get
people to really critically lookat this, using that framework
(05:40):
of professional ethics, to sayis this okay to be putting this
out there or do we really needto question this?
Students said, hands down, bestassignment ever, that it really
helped them look at.
Oh oh, this is a real problemand to not just say it makes me
(06:02):
feel creepy.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
But it's a real problem because and have a way
to justify it- yeah, I mean,already going through my head is
so many things I have seen thatare unethical.
And it's funny that youactually just bring this up,
because I just saw somethingyesterday.
Because I just saw somethingyesterday there was a Instagram
(06:27):
of a girl she's a life coach.
So the difference between alife coach and a therapist is a
therapist is going to have likea degree, whether it is a LPC,
family or marriage and familytherapist, or a lcsw or a
(06:48):
psychologist.
So therapist is actually goingto have a degree.
Somebody straight out of highschool is able to say that
they're a life coach.
I I started following heroriginally because she had like
one good point and it's one ofthose things that it's like a
broken clock broken clock can'tbe right twice a twice a day and
(07:09):
I saw one of her things pop upthe other day.
It was she was talking aboutbeing at a bar and you know she
has her hand over a drink, whichis wonderful idea and some guy
was talking to her and said likesomething about how, hey,
that's kind of weird that you'rehaving your hand over your eye
over your glass like that, likeas if I'm gonna do something did
(07:31):
you send this one to me, or didI also see this?
you feel like you said I mighthave sent this one to you, and
she goes, and she goes intoabout how, uh, she's like, hey,
you know, look over there, blah,blah, blah, blah, blah.
And then, a few minutes later,like you know, like after he
finished his drink, you know,he's like uh, uh, she's like, oh
, and, by the way, I pouredsomething in your uh, your glass
(07:52):
why you were not looking whichshe didn't do, but she was
trying to teach this person toyou know, like, hey, it's Eddie,
and it's like, no, you don't.
You know, as a therapist, Iwould never, ever, ever say
something like you know, likethat's the way to teach somebody
.
Like, yes, you know, havingyour hand over your glass, like
(08:13):
that, wonderful idea.
Teaching a guy is wonderfulidea.
Putting a person in fear is nota good idea and that would be
completely unethical.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
Yeah, and that's the type of stuff that I just see so
much of, and, as you were doingthis project with the students,
I ruined my Instagram bylooking stuff up.
Every time I saw something bad,like five signs you're dating a
narcissist.
You know, of course, you clickon it and Instagram's like I
hear you like narcissists, butit's everywhere and I really
(08:53):
think again, social media hasjust created this monster of it
because you have so so manydifferent ways and some are more
obvious than others.
But, for instance, I mean, oneof the things you can really
easily look at is like, doesthis sound too good to be true?
And I certainly fell for this.
So my parents have a dog wholives life exuberantly Everyone
(09:17):
is her friend Fiona's.
Just, she has a lot of energy,I would say, to put it nicely, A
little too much energysometimes.
And I saw a video aboutsomebody who showed their puppy,
you know, bouncing around.
They're like, oh, and then Igave them these like calming
treats and it shows the puppyjust like completely zonked out,
(09:38):
With, of course, Shaggy's likeif I got high.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
Because I got high.
I got high.
Oh, what's the?
Speaker 1 (09:50):
okay, uh, because I got high, because I got shaggy
it's um afro man, yeah, you knowand that's playing in the
background and I was like youknow what?
I found these treats at walmart.
It's like 10 bucks, let's try.
It didn't do anything and sheate them.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
They were delicious, I guess, but she said they were
tasty and give me more.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
I mean, even that's one of those things like it's so
easy to misrepresent to andmaybe truly for that dog.
That's what happened, but allyou're seeing are these
convenient little clips stitchedtogether and one shows bouncy,
one shows here's dog eatingtreat and one shows puppy, just
high out of its mind, passed out.
(10:31):
Those could have been taken oncompletely different days, and I
know I'm definitely guilty offalling for that and being like,
look, but they're all togetherin one video.
It must be true.
And then, of course, I meanthere's the obvious one too,
that you have to ask yourselfwho posted it.
And, if I may, the boomers arereally bad.
You have done this to me atleast once.
(10:53):
It's been a while Back.
You know, if I send you a memeor something, be like oh, do you
know this person?
Who is you know?
And they list off the username.
Who is you know?
And they list off the username.
I think you only did that onceor twice and then you picked up
(11:15):
that these were not people thatI actually knew.
But I mean, who is this personwho is posting it?
Who is this group that isposting it?
Do you know them?
Are they trustworthy?
Do they have accreditation?
Do they have the rightaccreditation?
Are they using thataccreditation properly?
So I think one of the examplesI first sent you was go Dr
(11:36):
Judith.
Yes, have you seen her stuff?
Speaker 3 (11:41):
No I haven't, you don't want to see, to see her
stuff oh god she is somebody whohas some type of degree?
Speaker 1 (11:51):
um, she can legitimately call herself doctor
.
Um, she does some type oftherapy work?
Um, I'm not entirely sure, andyou know she makes these little
skits talking about stuff, and Ithink the one that I sent you
because it was really not good,was her showing like oh, you can
(12:11):
tell what problems the personhas the office late and with a
coffee, they must have adhd.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
they walk in with like a hoodie pulled down over
their face and you know, lookingkind of glum, they must be
depressed yeah, there, I meanthere, there's a whole code of
ethics for like all across theboard, and one of them is like,
when talking like politics andthings like that, and and
they'll say like you know, like,hey, what do you think that
(12:46):
this person has?
And anybody who is a therapistwill usually say something along
the lines of well, they're notmy client, I can't diagnose them
.
So I mean, you know.
So if somebody is watching afive second video and saying
like oh, they had their hoodiedown and therefore they're there
, it a five second video andsaying like oh, they had their
(13:10):
hoodie down and therefore theirtheir.
Speaker 3 (13:11):
I mean that right there, right off the bat, would
be like red flags.
However, a lot of people don'tget that, particularly people
who are thinking about cominginto the field and they go oh
yeah, that's a great way tofigure out what's going on with
somebody.
Pay attention to their bodylanguage.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
And I'm sure it is something that you guys do pay
attention to how the clientcomes in, how they're acting,
but I would imagine that patchesyou don't every time you have a
new client that you're notanalyzing for the first five
seconds.
Okay, you know what I'm goingto charge you for the first five
seconds.
Okay, you know what I'm goingto charge you for the whole hour
.
However, I've already made mydiagnosis based off of the first
(13:51):
two minutes that you walked inhere.
I mean, that would be a greatway to add more clients.
If you only need two minutesper client, then right.
Well, maybe you could likeshove into an hour and still
charge them the whole rate.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
Next you have ADHD, next OCD.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
Next See, we always talk about how therapists don't
make enough money.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
This is the key to solving that issue.
So, like one of the things likeokay, I tell people that, you
know, that's as one of the firstof that's.
One of the problems with likethe mind is that we try to put
things in the nice, neat littleboxes.
But we are not boxes and I tellpeople all the time that like
okay, so you know, let's sayyou're, let's say you're 19 and
(14:45):
you're texting somebody.
You're, you know, calling themand all of a sudden they become
more and more distant.
A couple of weeks later youfind out that you know they're
not calling back, they're nottexting back, they're becoming
more distant.
You know you're not hanging outand three weeks later you find
out that they were cheating.
And then fast forward like 10years later you're dating
(15:06):
somebody for six months.
All of a sudden they're notcalling back, they're not
texting back, they're becomingmore distant.
And then your mind goesstraight to they're cheating on
me.
Well, that's also.
You know the symptoms ofdepression and you know that
person could be feelingdepressed.
But I mean, if you see theselike little, like key notes, and
(15:29):
going straight to, they'recheating on me.
That's why you can't buy notesin the first five seconds.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
Yeah, and I think, again, social media, because
it's these really short clips.
It's essentially forcing thatto happen.
You know, if you've only got 30seconds to try and explain what
gaslighting is, I mean, we'vedone a whole episode on
gaslighting because people getit wrong all of the time I can't
(15:58):
tell you how many examples ofstuff I've seen.
I think I've sent to you onInstagram that are you know
these old like infographics?
Or you know a short video aboutyou know what is gaslighting?
And if you've been gaslit, howcan you tell?
How can you get past it?
And it's really just meant todraw you in and so it highlights
(16:18):
a single little point.
But then people are like it me,it's me, I've been, I've been
gaslit.
No, you just got lied to.
Lying is part of gaslighting,but it is not the same thing as
gaslighting and that that's oneof the things we it weakens
those words yes, it does.
(16:40):
Yep, so, yeah, you know, youalways have to be watching out
for, like, who is this personand how are they?
Are they using the language?
Are they even supposed to beusing?
Do they know how to use it?
Maybe, maybe not.
Just because they have thatdoctor in front of their name
does not mean that you canactually, unfortunately, trust
them.
And then, of course, there'sthe stuff that's just straight
(17:02):
up lies.
As somebody, of course, whostudies Russian, who is
interested in Russian historyand culture, and all of that, I
do subscribe on Telegram tomultiple propaganda channels.
Now, officially they're newschannels.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
So there's propaganda channels in Russia.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
No, no, no, no no.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
I mean, I've always thought like completely, 100%,
legit.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
Oh, yeah, absolutely.
Okay okay, sorry, yeah, that wasmy mistake there, but those
they're really insidious.
And my favorite thing about themand we do this in the West too,
to be clear, but my favoritething is I'll get a notification
Like somebody in the U?
S was shot and you're like, oh,oh, no, and it's, it's the most
(17:57):
benign story.
They haven't even picked like areal, you know school shooting
or something like that, butthey're just handpicking
anything bad that comes out ofthe us and that's like the, the
urgent news that I literally geta push notification for that
they feel like I need to knowand like, yes, that is true, but
(18:18):
you are manipulating theinformation and you are using it
to create this idea that the USthey're just shootings every
day and fires every day andeverything is just burning and
being shot to pieces at anygiven second.
It's like, no, no, I don'tthink so.
And then I mean, the otherthing you should also be
(18:42):
checking for, of course, issources and all of this.
So you and I found a video,maybe a year ago, that we were
looking at and it was apediatrician.
I think I should have tried torefine it, but I didn't want to
watch his video again and he wastalking about diagnosing
someone.
He was talking about.
Speaker 3 (19:03):
ADHD I think that's the one I'm thinking of of and
talking about how to diagnosethem.
And of course, as we know,that's one of those that it's a
little more complicated becauseyou've got to have different
sources of information.
You can't just rely on oneperson.
So you've got to haveinformation from the school
How's the child doing there?
(19:24):
You've got to have informationfrom the home How's the child
doing there?
You've got to have informationfrom the home How's the child
doing there?
Information from what thepediatrician has observed what
are they doing there and thenagain pulling all of that
together to get the completepicture so that if somebody is
under reporting, somebody elseis over reporting, you can get
that balance reporting somebodyelse is over reporting.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
You can get that balance and you know so like
that.
That's why the, the, the dsm,is like this big, thick,
monstrous book is because it isvery exact, like you know.
Um, you know, just like yousaid, like a kid could show all
the symptoms, like every singlesymptom of ADHD at school.
But it specifically says in theDSM that the kid has to show
(20:13):
them in more than one place, soeither at school and at home, at
school with the personal lifeand things like that with
friends.
So yeah, you can't just saylike, well, I as a teacher see
this and therefore you knowJohnny has ADHD.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
Yeah, but no, no.
I saw a video on Instagram thatsaid if you like to make little
noises to yourself at home, youhave ADHD.
And I like to make littlenoises to yourself at home, you
have ADHD, and I like to makelittle noises to myself at home.
Therefore, right.
So, actually, one person inparticular who I finally blocked
on Instagram because theirvideos kept coming up, it's the
(20:58):
Australian guy Colby Colby Musicsomething you have seen him, I
promise, and he does thesevideos about.
You know, like having ADHD, butit's everything.
It's every symptom.
It's like the T-Rex arms isADHD.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
It's also depression and autism yeah, it's amazing,
like you know, like I even like,even when, like I I've seen
like somebody like saying, likeyou know, um, these are the
signs of, you know, narcissism,and, and they might quote the
(21:39):
dsm, um, but the same thing is,is that I mean there are
multiple sections in the DSM.
For each symptom, you know thatthey have to observe, uh like,
a certain amount from thiscluster.
A certain amount from thiscluster.
Yeah, it's more complex than afive second video.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
Yep, and that's the last question that I've always
try and ask myself.
I'll admit I'm not always goodabout doing this, but what is
the point of of the personposting this?
Because we all know nothing isfree, like everything in life
has to cost something.
Whether you're paying with yourattention, whether you're
(22:21):
paying with your data, whetheryou're paying with money,
somebody is always gettingsomething from you and I think
people forget about that a loton social media because you see
they've listed as oh, this is anad.
You know I'm hawking thisproduct here as an influencer.
Okay, I can easily identifythat and you've been forced to
(22:42):
by law, say that this is whatI'm doing.
But there's so many others wementioned this on our Trad Wives
episode that they reel you inwith.
You know the cute videos, thecute little infographics that I
want to live this life.
You know, yes, this feels likeme.
And then you know you'rereading through the stuff and
you're like, if you want to findout more, comment help and I'll
(23:05):
send you my free ebook.
Or you know, I'll send you thelink to this, or you can, you
know, click the link in my bioto download the information
sheet to fill out to track youremotions.
You were being bought.
That's what's going on there.
These people are posting stuffto reel you in and make you feel
(23:28):
like, yes, this is me, yes, Iwas dating a narcissist.
Oh my God, what do I do now?
Now I've realized, quoteunquote, that that's who my ex
was and that's who my mother wasand my father, oh my God,
everyone in my family is anarcissist.
What do I do?
Help, I'm terrified.
But look, here's this for $199or it's free, but you now have
(23:53):
my email address.
You now have my information.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
You got to love it, I love it.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
They're also the more .
I don't know if they'reactually more benign, I'd say
they're worse.
I think I told you about thisat one point.
You were horrified because wehave a relative who is
completely clueless about these.
You know those posts onFacebook where they're like you
know, make your stripper name,comment below the name of your
childhood pet and the you knowname of the first street you
(24:28):
lived on.
It's like those are securityquestions.
Yes, and now you, joe schmo,with your facebook, with your
photo, have just put thisinformation out publicly.
She has answered a couple ofthose.
(24:50):
You've got to stop.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
Yeah, mom, I love you , but my mom is that relative.
I had to sit down.
I had to give her a huge courseof like you know, like anything
that you see.
Like you know, like any textthat you see, or anything like
that.
If it's not from somebody youknow, you don't click on the
(25:16):
link, you don't call them back.
They say they're Bank ofAmerica.
You look online and you get thenumber from there.
So you know, yeah, I used tohave a full head of hair until
(25:37):
my mom got a cell phone.
But, does your mom use theupside down?
Speaker 1 (25:43):
smiley face in place of a regular smiley face.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
It's okay.
No, no, no, my mom does thegroup chat talking to one person
.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
I guess you know we all have our faults.
Technology is hard, I get it.
So my last favorite example forwhy you have to be really
careful about looking at who isposting it and what they want to
(26:20):
get from you.
You do, you know.
Five minute craft no, I don'tyou do, I promise you do.
You know, blossom, you have seenthese horrific no, no, no.
You know the videos oninstagram or youtube or facebook
where it's like the, the cutoff hands, just kind of doing
something.
It's like, oh no, my glassesdon't fit, oh yes.
And they do this bizarre likecut up the pool noodle.
(26:42):
Use a whole bunch of hot glueto do this.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
The ones that like captivate you, that you know
that you're never, becauseyou've never done any type of
craft, but yet, for some oddreason, you're watching the
entire thing, because what if,one of these days?
Speaker 1 (26:59):
Exactly, and you know sure, If my sunglasses break,
what do I do?
I don't actually carry around ahot glue gun and glue sticks
and pool noodles and God knowswhat else with me at all times.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
How do you not carry this around?
Speaker 1 (27:13):
Good point, good point, I guess I should start.
But you know so, magically youcan have all that, but you don't
have any pair of sunglasses.
They and I think you've seensome of these videos too, I'm
sure just kind of it's going.
They're very brightly colored.
They really are the epitome ofjust trash and you're never
going to use it, but you getdrawn in.
That's Russian propaganda.
(27:36):
Did you know that?
Speaker 2 (27:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
Yeah, they got busted a couple years ago because, in
the background of some of thevideos they were showing,
there'd be like a map of theworld, as you might have, except
, you know, it would show stufflike Crimea being part of Russia
.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
Oh wow, going for the subliminals, as you might have,
except it would show stuff likeCrimea being part of.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
Russia, oh Wow.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
Going for the subliminals.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
Yeah, it can even be some of this stuff when you're
just like this is a harmlessvideo.
This is not convincing someone.
Their entire family isnarcissistic and out to get them
.
That's bad, don't get me wrong,but this is just a little
harmless video.
No, it's not.
This is also bad because youare now subconsciously seeing
(28:21):
this and seeing crimea being thesame being russia.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
It's been included wow yep wow, that that's
actually.
You know what I hate to say.
I give them props like theybuilt up that empire.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
They built it up very slowly and carefully for years,
creating this like people.
Ah, you know, I love fiveminute crafts, I love blossom,
and then it was just like oh,whoopsies, how'd that get in
there?
So I know you do have Instagram, mom, but you don't.
(29:04):
You use it mainly when I sendyou cute animal memes or trash
memes as your child.
That's what I do.
Speaker 3 (29:10):
And to look at other things occasionally but, not not
my primary source ofentertainment.
Speaker 1 (29:17):
But of course you also have Facebook.
How often would you say thatyou see information that you
would question, like any of thisstuff, that if you really
looked and said who's posting it, why are they posting it, what
are they trying to get, at thatyou would get undesirable
answers undesirable answers?
Speaker 3 (29:40):
Probably, unless I go into Facebook for something
very specific and that's whatI'm looking for, maybe what
somebody's posted, or I'm goingin to message somebody through
Facebook, then I'm not.
I'm in and out.
But if I'm not doing that, ifit's oh, let me just scroll
through my feed.
Every single time.
I will see videos of things,and you're right.
(30:01):
There are the what appear to beinnocuous, easy crafts that you
can do.
Speaker 1 (30:08):
Yep, little things like that.
I know obviously Patches, yousee that a lot because we sit
with each other sometimes.
I know, obviously patches, yousee that a lot because we sit
with each other sometimes.
But I mean, would you consideryou and I I think have disagreed
a little bit on this thosevideos like the call out videos
(30:29):
and stuff like that?
Would you put this in that as,like this is potentially
misrepresenting stuff?
So to explain to you, mom,sometimes there will be videos
where somebody says I hate dogs,dogs are the worst, get rid of
all the dogs.
And so somebody will come inand stitch that video and be
like, oh, look at this person.
You know they said blah, blah,blah.
(30:49):
That's true, that's not true.
Sometimes people will, ifsomebody has left a comment,
they will call them out about it, like go to their profile,
looking for this information,because to me I think that is
adjacent to this stuff, becauseyou don't know the whole story.
You've just got this littlevideo and they're showing you
the snippets of it and thenthey're commenting on what they
(31:12):
think the person was saying.
I know you like them sometimes,which is why I ask.
Speaker 2 (31:18):
So, okay, it depends, I mean it's, and and this is
kind of one of the things thatthat I tend to disagree with on
a lot of your call out videos asa whole is the fact that, like
all or nothing, thinking, youknow, like a lot of people will
say all men do this or all youknow, like women do this, or you
(31:40):
know if, if you're calling outon a certain group, you know, I,
I think I really hate that ifthey're calling out on a certain
comment, it depends on howobvious the comment is.
I mean, there are some thingsthat you just don't say because
you just don't say but yeah, Imean it's, it's really hard to
(32:02):
really gauge on things becauseof the fact that, just as you
said, you don't know the wholestory.
I mean, I love this example ofyou know, like communication
wise, uh, I love the example ofI didn't say she took my money.
And it's seven words, same.
Or, and you can say I didn'tsay she took my money.
I didn't say she took my money,I didn't say she.
(32:25):
You know, and each, if youemphasize a different word, you
have seven completely differentmeaning sentences based off of
seven words that are in the sameorder.
It's just what are youemphasizing.
Speaker 1 (32:39):
No, it's true, and you completely miss, I think, a
lot of that nuance and I thinkpeople don't want to see it.
Certainly, my take for stuffthat I see online and even stuff
, for instance, in like aneighborhood Facebook page, that
people, people see what theywant to see in somebody's
comment and they go from thereand then the next person sees
what they want to see and isthat the original posters fault
(33:02):
Sometimes, sometimes not.
Speaker 2 (33:06):
Yeah, if, if you're, if you're commenting on a
comment of a comment, of acomment, you know it becomes a
game of telephone.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
So a question for you and then for you.
So we're going to get the, Iguess the boomer and the gin
Alpha.
Speaker 3 (33:26):
No, you still got Gen Z as students, I think, so I
may have some alpha.
Speaker 1 (33:33):
When was?
Our alpha is 2013.
I think you don't have alphayet.
When?
Speaker 2 (33:37):
was alpha.
Speaker 1 (33:37):
Alpha is 2013.
Yeah, alpha is.
I think you don't have alphayet.
They're coming.
Speaker 3 (33:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:45):
It would still be the Gen Z that sounds horrible.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
That sounds horrible.
The alphas are, they're coming,they are.
Speaker 3 (34:23):
They are, but do you think that you see more
misinformation, disinformation,amongst people?
Your a really broad range ofages, because it encompassed a
large period of time, but Ithink that people in my
generation are probably a littlemore gullible.
We're still a little moretrusting than your generation,
for instance, and again, beingcareful not to overgeneralize
and go everybody is this, but Ithink we are far more likely to
(34:48):
fall victim to a scam than youare, whether it's a telephone
scam or an email scam, whetherit's a telephone scam or an
email scam.
And so it's maybe not so muchthat we are putting
disinformation out there, but weare probably more susceptible
to it.
And I think, in terms of thestudents that I work with, I
(35:14):
would say that they are probablymore savvy about a lot of
things.
They're more technologicallysavvy because they've grown up
with it.
They've grown up withsmartphones, they have been
exposed more to, oh, the evilsof the internet and you have to
be able to figure out is thisokay or is this not okay?
(35:34):
So I think they hold a realadvantage because of those
experiences.
Speaker 1 (35:42):
So what about good old Gen X?
We used to play outside untilthe sun went down.
Speaker 2 (35:49):
So okay.
So I look at this way, like Ithink the boomers are actually
okay.
So I think it's kind of one ofthese type of scales where as
one goes down, the other goes up.
So I think that boomergeneration is more trusting and
(36:09):
everything like that, but isalso more informed in the in the
idea of like factualinformation, so, like one of the
things seeing the thing abouthow it wasn't until 9-11.
9-11 became your first like hugeconspiracy theories.
You had loose change where, ifyou don't know about that, it
(36:34):
was like a, a video that wasgoing around um, shortly after
9-11.
It was showing about how thisis where, like a lot of these
theories, of steel doesn't meltat this uh temperature and you
know the world trade timercouldn't have fallen down from
you know the jet fuel and therewere booms that were heard
throughout the the you knowworld trade timer before it came
(36:56):
down.
That that was based off of thisvideo and the thing was is like
internet, like my, my parents,uh, so my, my mom was born in 40
, 43, my dad was born in 45, uh,so when it came to new
technology, my house wasprobably one of the last ones to
(37:18):
get like that new technology.
So it was like one of thesethings like uh, internet first
started really kind of comingaround, maybe like 96, 97, but
like our house, we had it in2000, and so 9-11 was the first
big thing, like after like theinternet.
Like really, you know, like uhtook off, uh, and that was like
(37:43):
the first instance of you knowum large-scale conspiracies.
So that's where I kind of say,like you know, like the, the
kind of trade-off of you know,like the boomers are more
factually informed but sincethey are more trusting, they are
less scam informed versus wherethe later end of Gen X and
(38:08):
forward is more or is lessfactually informed and more scam
wise.
Speaker 1 (38:16):
I can see it because I think millennials are kind of
the same too, where we're in aweird spot and and gen z I hate
to lump us in the same categoryas tide pods, but you know, you
know people know to look for.
You know who is the source like.
(38:36):
If it's a newspaper, you'relike this is good newspaper,
this is bad newspaper, like Ithink we're good at that.
But somehow then we get on theinternet and it's like but the
narcissists?
I just I can't tell you howmuch I see about narcissism
online these days when I don'twant to, but there's so much of
it out there and clearly it'sbecause people are clicking on
(39:00):
it, they're looking at it andit's this idea of well, but I
saw it here and I saw thisinfographic about it and I think
you know people are worried,they don't understand.
They're like why did?
Why did I get ghosted?
Why did this happen?
And so you're looking for areason and somehow, if it comes
from Instagram, it must be true.
I don't know why we do that, butI just I see a lot of people my
(39:22):
age reposting stuff or likingstuff.
It's like if you spent fiveseconds looking at this, I think
you would probably understandthat.
You know five signs he's microflirting with you, really,
really.
I can see that you've likedthis post.
Come on, I'm gonna stage anintervention here.
(39:46):
But somehow that feels real tous and, as a result, it just it
allows this misinformation tojust keep spreading and it opens
the door, too, for people totake advantage of you if you're
already in this vulnerable spotand you're like but is he
flirting with me?
Is he interested?
It does seem like the five signsof micro-flirting are true.
What is micro-flirting?
(40:06):
I don't know.
That's never been explained tome, despite all the posts I
looked at about micro-flirtingto see if I could understand
micro flirting, to see if Icould understand why.
These are the five signs Notclear that that we're we're
totally okay with, and I thinkthat then, if you have somebody
who uses that, they can a lafive minute crafts, suck you in
(40:29):
and then be like whoops justgoing to put this little
disinformation up in the cornerhere.
Oh, no, crimea.
Speaker 2 (40:38):
Russia, of course.
Now, when was the last time youknow, lindsay?
When was the last time that youpicked up a newspaper?
When was the last time that youactually watched actual news?
Speaker 1 (40:51):
Uh, so I do on my phone.
I do read the New York Times,but a physical newspaper has
probably been years Plural.
Speaker 2 (41:04):
Mom same question.
Speaker 3 (41:06):
Yeah, so we stopped getting physical newspapers
several years ago.
So I read our local newspaper,local daily, online.
Most days I read bits of theNew York Times online.
We'll occasionally read someother newspapers online, but not
(41:27):
the physical picking up thepaper.
Sometimes I don't know.
Are these online articles legit?
It says it's coming from theMarietta Daily Journal, but
maybe it's not.
Speaker 2 (41:44):
I mean I know like I'll read like an article here
and there on the Times, but Iwon't actually go through it.
Speaker 1 (41:53):
Yeah, I pick what's interesting, I'll be honest,
unless I'm desperate and I'msitting on the Metro and like
absolutely bored and you're likewhat's this article here?
Speaker 2 (42:01):
But Okay, so when was the last time that you read a
informational book, not likebook for pleasure, but like
something like you know, like,actually reading like, like
something like you know, like,uh, actually reading like, I
mean, um, you know somethinginformational um, definitely
(42:24):
very recently, of course.
Speaker 1 (42:26):
Um, um, can I pass?
I've, I've read books, butpurely for pleasure.
Okay, take one for the team youknow, help us out here.
Speaker 3 (42:47):
You've read something useful, yeah so so I've
actually read several books thisyear, not Not recently, but
these were not even on my phone.
These were actual copies of thebooks Read several this year.
Speaker 2 (43:04):
You know, when it comes to like.
You know, like, like searchwork and things like that,
purely based off books, becauselike, yeah, I mean, if you're,
if I'm going to get myinformation off of you know,
like Cutie Pie or something likethat.
Speaker 1 (43:19):
You pronounced it correctly.
Speaker 2 (43:20):
I'm so proud of you, hey you know what, after finding
out where he is nowadays, I'mglad I don't know who that was
this is true, you know a lot ofpeople are getting their
information, you know, like, offof.
You know what is narcissismlike?
Yeah, you know, like I said, Iyou know sometimes they're
(43:44):
listing like things on the dsm,so on the surface level it looks
legit but, um, you know, unlessyou're actually looking in
information, you know like, yeah, well, unless you're even using
it correctly.
Speaker 1 (43:57):
Because you and I also at some point found a video
of some doctor again, they hadqualifications and he was
talking about some studies thathad been done and just making
some kind of wild claims.
And I think between the two ofus we spent over an hour
(44:18):
tracking down these studies fromwhat he had listed and then had
to Google stuff and found partof it and then that was an
article and from the articlefound a link to another article
and from that article found alink to the study.
And then you still had to gointo the study and actually
scroll down and use yournon-existent math skills to
understand what was writtenthere.
(44:39):
And you're like, looking at thetables and some of what he had
said was true.
I don't remember what exactlythis was about.
Unfortunately, some of it wasnot, some of it was an
exaggeration, like oh you,you're, you know, seven times
more likely to be depressed, orsomething like that.
And when you looked at theactual numbers it was like but
(45:02):
it's not, that was a veryspecific subset that had, you
know, dealt with childhood abuseand this, and that it was like
when you ticked boxes A, B, C, D, E, F, G, then you were seven
times more likely.
But you're representing it asif you tick any of the boxes,
(45:23):
even just one.
You are seven times more likely, or whatever it was, to be
depressed.
And it's not true.
And you should know that as adoctor.
And it's not true.
And you should know that as adoctor, you should be able if me
, who failed math twice in highschool, can figure that out, you
know it's bad.
(45:44):
So where do you see this goingQuestion for both of you.
Do you see it getting better?
Do you see it getting worse?
Is there anything that could bedone to other than deleting
Instagram off of everyone'sphones?
Speaker 3 (46:03):
So I mean, one of the phrases that's kicked around a
lot in education these days iscritical thinking and the idea
of teaching people how to takein information and examine it
and decide how much of this isworthwhile, how much of this is
(46:27):
applicable to me, how much ofthis is realistic, does it fit
with my knowledge about theworld in general?
Does it fit with my knowledgeabout this topic specifically?
And so I think, with that inmind, helping people learn how
to utilize critical thinking tobe able to look at something and
(46:49):
not just accept it wholesale oh, yeah, well, it's, you know, dr
.
So-and-so Well, what does thedoctor in front of their name
mean?
You know, is this a self-imposedtitle?
Did you get a doctorate inEnglish literature?
Yeah, or, you know, is it likeDr J, the basketball player?
You know his name?
(47:11):
So yeah, and so what's thebasis of that?
What's the basis of you know?
What credentials do you have tobe able to say this?
And then, even just looking atit from the standpoint of what
does this feel like to me?
Does something feel off aboutit and if so, why?
(47:34):
What feels off and how can Iinvestigate further?
Speaker 1 (47:39):
Fake dad since we've had mom.
Fake dad since we've had mom I.
Speaker 2 (47:45):
So I think that you know, I, I agree with you.
I think that, um, I think thatthis is definitely something
that should go into either,should be taught like all
throughout, like grade school,elementary, uh, high school, I
mean, um, we can replace typingclass at this point.
(48:06):
You know, I don't know too manypeople who don't know how to
type by the age of like two.
You know, and I remember, youknow, we had to take a class in
college and we went to thelibrary and it was, you know,
(48:27):
learning to look at thecitations and things, and one of
the examples that the librariangave us was martinlutherkingorg
, and you know it was like, okay, you know, org organization.
You know it was like, okay, youknow, dot org organization now
looks legitimate, uh, until youlook at the very bottom where it
(48:48):
is like, you know, like, uh,something thunder or
stormtroopers or something likethat, which is a white
supremacist group that is whatthe page is ran by.
Oh, that's fun.
So, obviously, like you know,white supremacist group, having
a page of martinluthergameorg isnot going to be exactly like
(49:13):
non-biased or factual, really.
So, like I think, like you know, like being able to, you know,
critical thinking, uh, and Ithink it's.
I'm kind of worried because Ithink it's going to be worse
before it gets better.
You know, I think that you know, unfortunately, like right now,
(49:37):
even if we started right now,we're waiting 20 years for that
group to enter into themainstream and it's yeah, so
there are solutions.
But, unfortunately, the peoplewho are currently in the depth
(50:01):
of it as of right now, um, thoseare the, those are the people
that are the problem, like youknow, like, oh, I already know
this information, because lifecoach, uh, you know, tiffany,
you know, said that this is uhwhat it is, and if she's a life
coach, then you know, she knows,uh, you know her stuff and
(50:21):
stuff, and it's like no, there'sa reason why she's saying the
life coach, not a therapist,like yeah, it's like all the
people on the internet whothey're super fit and they're
like do these three easyexercises to snatch your waist
and build your glutes?
Speaker 1 (50:37):
like, yeah, I'm sure you do do those exercises, in
addition to about 20 otherdifferent ones that you actually
do at the gym with real weights, which is why you look like
this and that's why you, insteadof being an actual personal
trainer at the gym, you're onInstagram making videos, because
(51:00):
you don't actually know how tocoach clients.
You know how to do this toyourself, or you were
genetically blessed and so youjust look really good and you
were going to use that, and ifpeople saw you in real life,
they might be like, I don't know, man, I feel like something's
off here, like now that thefilter isn't there to snatch in
the waist a little moreuntrustworthy.
(51:24):
So, on our scale of toxicity,where would both of you rank
this?
Is this a green potato?
Um, and this meaning falseinformation online and people's
ability to differentiate between.
Is this legit, is this notlegit, legit and how trustworthy
(51:45):
is it?
Because of course, it's notjust black and white.
It's not a hard quote.
It is true or it is false.
Obviously, there's manydifferent variations in between.
Is this whole problem a greenpotato?
It will make you sick if youeat it, but not going to die.
Is this a death cap mushroom 5050 chance of dying even if it
is cooked?
Or is this antifreeze, adelicious but deadly last snack
(52:09):
when mixed with lime jellopatches?
What do you think?
Put you on the spot first?
Speaker 2 (52:15):
I would have to say this is death cap, concerning
the fact that, uh, concerningthe fact that we are, you know,
like the, the one that I wassaying about earlier, where you
know, like freaking out a totalguy or a guy just to teach him a
lesson, you know you're, you'replaying with somebody's
(52:37):
emotions, you're playing withtheir, their head.
Actually, you know what I I'mgoing to have to put this up
there because, on what it's usedfor, I would have to say, hi,
deathcap, deathcap Plus, becauseyou know, like, in that example
, you're playing, you know, andalso, this guy who could be on
(52:57):
the verge of, you know like,hating women, and you know like,
could be the the tipping pointfor that person.
I think that you know, uh,especially like you know people
who are, you know, because weall want to have answers, uh, we
all want to be able to like,you know like, and if I, you
(53:19):
know, if you're kind of sittingthere and, uh, you don't have
good focus and all of a suddenyou're hearing all these things.
So these are the signs of ADHDand they're like, very generic,
like you know, like symptoms.
Now, this person's, you know,taking away the focus, of trying
to question and putting it tolike, okay, I have the answer,
(53:40):
let me find this, you know,solution to this answer, and you
know that's kind of taken awayfrom like okay, you know,
another thing that is going tocause somebody to lose focus is
also depression, you know.
So if you're now like goingfurther and further into like
depression or something likethat and putting all of your
time and energy into ADHD, wellthat's taken away from going to
(54:05):
a therapist and actually seeingsomebody.
About getting the answers tosomething that's more feasible.
Speaker 1 (54:13):
I can see that.
Speaker 3 (54:16):
Mom, how would you rate this?
It as a death cap, becausethere are a lot of examples out
there that are pretty benign,where people are giving bad
information but nobody's goingto be hurt by it.
People may be offended by it,but that's going to be the
extent of it, but there are theinstances where they're talking
about things that are reallyserious matters, and so, if they
(54:41):
convince you, you only havethis with you if you meet these
criteria.
Well, those may not be theright criteria, and so, again,
the person may not get thetreatment that they need,
whether it's for mental healthor physical health, and if
they're giving bad information,and doing it with such an
(55:03):
authoritative manner, it can behard for people to ignore, and I
think there's the potential forpeople to be seriously hurt,
particularly people who aredesperately seeking something
and are unwilling, unable to goto a reliable source a therapist
(55:26):
, a medical doctor, whoever itwould be and they're trying to
get to whatever is going on.
Well, this is it, I've found it, and it's not it.
Then, the lack of treatment, orthe whatever treatment that
they opt to get, based on this,could be really dangerous, could
(55:46):
be harmful for them.
Speaker 1 (55:49):
I debated if I could try and spin this as an
antifreeze just to createproblems, but I don't think I
can, which is probably a goodthing.
I think it is.
I think it is a death cap, likeboth of you said, a high death
cap.
It's maybe a couple of deathcap mushrooms mixed in to your
pizza, because, yeah, there'splenty of stuff, like with the
(56:10):
calming chews that we got forFiona the dog, where it's like
you know what she thought theywere tasty.
It didn't do anything to calmher down.
But no harm, no foul, okay, butthere's so much of it that can
lead to really, really nastystuff, where we talk about this,
probably about every otherepisode, that all it takes is
for somebody to be in a not goodplace feeling good, or I'm kind
(56:33):
of, you know, feeling like I'mangry at men or women and you
see one of these videos thatputs all of this blame on
somebody and that kind of pushesyou over there.
You see this video, like yousaid, of the woman.
You said, oh, I put somethingin your drink and you were
(56:55):
already mad at women.
You're like see all women,they're manipulative, they're
going to do this to you, they'regoing to lie, they think it's
funny and it's all it takes.
Is that one thing that kind ofpushes you over?
And there is stuff that can bedangerous to your health.
The whole fitness side, thewhole wellness side of the
(57:15):
internet.
That's like message me or DM meand I'll send you 10 healthy
smoothies that will cure youradrenal fatigue.
What is this?
You've just made up this idea.
Toxins, toxins, everywhere.
I'll get my great toxin burnerdrink recipe.
(57:37):
You don't have toxins in you.
If you had toxins in your body,we have bigger issues.
You don't have toxins in your.
If you had toxins in your body,we have bigger issues and that
can lead to very serious healthproblems, eating disorders.
It can lead to death in somecases.
So yeah, I think, until peoplelearn how to properly analyze
and not just learn how butactually then use it on the
(58:00):
regular, which is hard, I get-it.
It's tough times.
Speaker 3 (58:09):
Yeah, it wouldn't be.
Speaker 2 (58:11):
It's like 90%, but nine is just a.
Is a 10% that really?
Speaker 3 (58:16):
brings it up to yeah.
Speaker 1 (58:20):
Yeah, so if you have ever seen something on Instagram
that you thought was sketchy,you can send it to us.
We have Instagram.
We have X.
X has so much sketchy stuff onthere.
Please don't send it to usthere.
We see enough on our ownFacebook email threads.
We've got most of the socialmedias.
(58:40):
We would love to hear from youall there if you have any
experiences with this.
Of course, our email address istoxic at awesome life skillscom
and until next week, we'll seeyou then.
Bye.
Speaker 2 (58:56):
Bye.
Hi and welcome to the Toxic Cooking Show, where we
break down toxic people intotheir simplest ingredients.
I'm your host for this week,lindsay McLean, and with me is
my co-host number one.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Christopher Patchett, LCSW.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
And with me is my co-host number two.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
Oh my God.
Hello, I'm your co-host numbertwo.
I'm Leslie McLean, LPC, andjust happened to be Lindsay's
mom.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Oh my God, I told you I had a surprise.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
Uh-huh, hello, surprise, hello, hello.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Do you know how hard I work to not say anything about
the fact that my mom was comingand the fact that months ago I
told her that we hosted thispodcast together and that I
wanted her to join us for anepisode?
Speaker 2 (01:20):
oh my god, because, okay.
So, so we do these.
Usually we'll record two at atime, and then, when I came on
today, I was going to do theepisode that I do first, and
then Lindsay was like no, no, no, no, I got a surprise, let's do
(01:41):
mine first.
I'm like okay, okay, pushy, butfine, this is definitely a
surprise.
You know like, let's do minefirst.
I'm like okay, okay, Okay,pushy but fine, this is
definitely a surprise.
Speaker 3 (01:50):
So, and I actually have somewhere I have to be at a
certain point.
So that's why she was like, sowe have to do this one first.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Let's go now.
Okay, now I'm like twice asmuch like curious of what we're
going to be talking about here.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
So we are going to be talking about.
Let me pull up my beautifulnotes here.
I hope you know I had to makethem really big.
As a fellow person with glasses, you understand that I usually
have the regular size on thereand I was showing my mom ahead
of time.
She was like make them bigger.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
I can't see it.
No, make it, no, make it.
Can't read the notes, so butbefore, yeah, I tried doing the
uh, I tried doing like theregular notes, uh, like the
first uh one that we did, and Iwas sitting there the entire
time being like yeah, and thenblah, blah, blah.
Yeah, that was one of the firstthings I learned about when we
started doing podcasts.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
So, before we get into the topic, I don't know if
you wanted to talk about yourbackground at all or you wish to
remain a mystery.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
So I can say a little bit about my background without
going into too much detail.
Going into too much detail, soI have years of experience as a
therapist, doing a lot ofindividual and group therapy and
a lot of crisis response work,and also working as a college
professor.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
So I figured that that was especially useful for
today's topic, where we'retalking about when you see
information online, how do Iknow if it's legit or not?
Because that's a commonquestion that I think we've run
across with a lot of the mediathat certainly you and I are
talking about on these episodesand just in general, because
(03:36):
it's everywhere.
It's not just Instagram andTikTok, it's Facebook, it's even
legitimate news sources likeCNN, the New York Times.
Sometimes you're reading theheadline and you're like it's a
little misleading, it's a littlebiased.
No, don't you guys think so?
Yeah, I mean clickbait.
It's been around for a while,misleading headlines have been
(03:59):
around for a while, but I thinksocial media has really just
absolutely made it get reallybad, because you can create so
much stuff and put it out thereand other people can.
Then you know stitch that youlose all of the background
information that maybe theoriginal post had.
Maybe the original post didn'thave any background information.
(04:21):
That certainly happens quite abit.
So you actually had a projectthat you had your students do
for just this past semester.
Yes, okay.
Speaker 3 (04:31):
Yeah, so it's a class on ethics and so we were
talking about.
You know, how can you applyethics in real life rather than
just looking at the theory andcase studies?
And I said well, you know,there's all this information out
there on social media that hasto do with helping people, and
some of it's ethical and some ofit's really unethical.
(04:53):
So now's your chance.
In a small group, you have tofind on social media an example
of something that you think iseither incredibly unethical or
incredibly ethical and you haveto present it to the class.
They had 20 minutes per groupto do this and you have to,
(05:16):
using the framework of aprofessional code of ethics, you
have to justify is it ethicalor is it unethical?
And you have to look at who'sthe source and what do they know
about what they're talkingabout.
And you have to generate adiscussion in the class to get
people to really critically lookat this, using that framework
(05:40):
of professional ethics, to sayis this okay to be putting this
out there or do we really needto question this?
Students said, hands down, bestassignment ever, that it really
helped them look at.
Oh oh, this is a real problemand to not just say it makes me
(06:02):
feel creepy.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
But it's a real problem because and have a way
to justify it- yeah, I mean,already going through my head is
so many things I have seen thatare unethical.
And it's funny that youactually just bring this up,
because I just saw somethingyesterday.
Because I just saw somethingyesterday there was a Instagram
(06:27):
of a girl she's a life coach.
So the difference between alife coach and a therapist is a
therapist is going to have likea degree, whether it is a LPC,
family or marriage and familytherapist, or a lcsw or a
(06:48):
psychologist.
So therapist is actually goingto have a degree.
Somebody straight out of highschool is able to say that
they're a life coach.
I I started following heroriginally because she had like
one good point and it's one ofthose things that it's like a
broken clock broken clock can'tbe right twice a twice a day and
(07:09):
I saw one of her things pop upthe other day.
It was she was talking aboutbeing at a bar and you know she
has her hand over a drink, whichis wonderful idea and some guy
was talking to her and said likesomething about how, hey,
that's kind of weird that you'rehaving your hand over your eye
over your glass like that, likeas if I'm gonna do something did
(07:31):
you send this one to me, or didI also see this?
you feel like you said I mighthave sent this one to you, and
she goes, and she goes intoabout how, uh, she's like, hey,
you know, look over there, blah,blah, blah, blah, blah.
And then, a few minutes later,like you know, like after he
finished his drink, you know,he's like uh, uh, she's like, oh
, and, by the way, I pouredsomething in your uh, your glass
(07:52):
why you were not looking whichshe didn't do, but she was
trying to teach this person toyou know, like, hey, it's Eddie,
and it's like, no, you don't.
You know, as a therapist, Iwould never, ever, ever say
something like you know, likethat's the way to teach somebody
.
Like, yes, you know, havingyour hand over your glass, like
(08:13):
that, wonderful idea.
Teaching a guy is wonderfulidea.
Putting a person in fear is nota good idea and that would be
completely unethical.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
Yeah, and that's the type of stuff that I just see so
much of, and, as you were doingthis project with the students,
I ruined my Instagram bylooking stuff up.
Every time I saw something bad,like five signs you're dating a
narcissist.
You know, of course, you clickon it and Instagram's like I
hear you like narcissists, butit's everywhere and I really
(08:53):
think again, social media hasjust created this monster of it
because you have so so manydifferent ways and some are more
obvious than others.
But, for instance, I mean, oneof the things you can really
easily look at is like, doesthis sound too good to be true?
And I certainly fell for this.
So my parents have a dog wholives life exuberantly Everyone
(09:17):
is her friend Fiona's.
Just, she has a lot of energy,I would say, to put it nicely, A
little too much energysometimes.
And I saw a video aboutsomebody who showed their puppy,
you know, bouncing around.
They're like, oh, and then Igave them these like calming
treats and it shows the puppyjust like completely zonked out,
(09:38):
With, of course, Shaggy's likeif I got high.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
Because I got high.
I got high.
Oh, what's the?
Speaker 1 (09:50):
okay, uh, because I got high, because I got shaggy
it's um afro man, yeah, you knowand that's playing in the
background and I was like youknow what?
I found these treats at walmart.
It's like 10 bucks, let's try.
It didn't do anything and sheate them.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
They were delicious, I guess, but she said they were
tasty and give me more.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
I mean, even that's one of those things like it's so
easy to misrepresent to andmaybe truly for that dog.
That's what happened, but allyou're seeing are these
convenient little clips stitchedtogether and one shows bouncy,
one shows here's dog eatingtreat and one shows puppy, just
high out of its mind, passed out.
(10:31):
Those could have been taken oncompletely different days, and I
know I'm definitely guilty offalling for that and being like,
look, but they're all togetherin one video.
It must be true.
And then, of course, I meanthere's the obvious one too,
that you have to ask yourselfwho posted it.
And, if I may, the boomers arereally bad.
You have done this to me atleast once.
(10:53):
It's been a while Back.
You know, if I send you a memeor something, be like oh, do you
know this person?
Who is you know?
And they list off the username.
Who is you know?
And they list off the username.
I think you only did that onceor twice and then you picked up
(11:15):
that these were not people thatI actually knew.
But I mean, who is this personwho is posting it?
Who is this group that isposting it?
Do you know them?
Are they trustworthy?
Do they have accreditation?
Do they have the rightaccreditation?
Are they using thataccreditation properly?
So I think one of the examplesI first sent you was go Dr
(11:36):
Judith.
Yes, have you seen her stuff?
Speaker 3 (11:41):
No I haven't, you don't want to see, to see her
stuff oh god she is somebody whohas some type of degree?
Speaker 1 (11:51):
um, she can legitimately call herself doctor
.
Um, she does some type oftherapy work?
Um, I'm not entirely sure, andyou know she makes these little
skits talking about stuff, and Ithink the one that I sent you
because it was really not good,was her showing like oh, you can
(12:11):
tell what problems the personhas the office late and with a
coffee, they must have adhd.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
they walk in with like a hoodie pulled down over
their face and you know, lookingkind of glum, they must be
depressed yeah, there, I meanthere, there's a whole code of
ethics for like all across theboard, and one of them is like,
when talking like politics andthings like that, and and
they'll say like you know, like,hey, what do you think that
(12:46):
this person has?
And anybody who is a therapistwill usually say something along
the lines of well, they're notmy client, I can't diagnose them
.
So I mean, you know.
So if somebody is watching afive second video and saying
like oh, they had their hoodiedown and therefore they're there
, it a five second video andsaying like oh, they had their
(13:10):
hoodie down and therefore theirtheir.
Speaker 3 (13:11):
I mean that right there, right off the bat, would
be like red flags.
However, a lot of people don'tget that, particularly people
who are thinking about cominginto the field and they go oh
yeah, that's a great way tofigure out what's going on with
somebody.
Pay attention to their bodylanguage.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
And I'm sure it is something that you guys do pay
attention to how the clientcomes in, how they're acting,
but I would imagine that patchesyou don't every time you have a
new client that you're notanalyzing for the first five
seconds.
Okay, you know what I'm goingto charge you for the first five
seconds.
Okay, you know what I'm goingto charge you for the whole hour
.
However, I've already made mydiagnosis based off of the first
(13:51):
two minutes that you walked inhere.
I mean, that would be a greatway to add more clients.
If you only need two minutesper client, then right.
Well, maybe you could likeshove into an hour and still
charge them the whole rate.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
Next you have ADHD, next OCD.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
Next See, we always talk about how therapists don't
make enough money.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
This is the key to solving that issue.
So, like one of the things likeokay, I tell people that, you
know, that's as one of the firstof that's.
One of the problems with likethe mind is that we try to put
things in the nice, neat littleboxes.
But we are not boxes and I tellpeople all the time that like
okay, so you know, let's sayyou're, let's say you're 19 and
(14:45):
you're texting somebody.
You're, you know, calling themand all of a sudden they become
more and more distant.
A couple of weeks later youfind out that you know they're
not calling back, they're nottexting back, they're becoming
more distant.
You know you're not hanging outand three weeks later you find
out that they were cheating.
And then fast forward like 10years later you're dating
(15:06):
somebody for six months.
All of a sudden they're notcalling back, they're not
texting back, they're becomingmore distant.
And then your mind goesstraight to they're cheating on
me.
Well, that's also.
You know the symptoms ofdepression and you know that
person could be feelingdepressed.
But I mean, if you see theselike little, like key notes, and
(15:29):
going straight to, they'recheating on me.
That's why you can't buy notesin the first five seconds.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
Yeah, and I think, again, social media, because
it's these really short clips.
It's essentially forcing thatto happen.
You know, if you've only got 30seconds to try and explain what
gaslighting is, I mean, we'vedone a whole episode on
gaslighting because people getit wrong all of the time I can't
(15:58):
tell you how many examples ofstuff I've seen.
I think I've sent to you onInstagram that are you know
these old like infographics?
Or you know a short video aboutyou know what is gaslighting?
And if you've been gaslit, howcan you tell?
How can you get past it?
And it's really just meant todraw you in and so it highlights
(16:18):
a single little point.
But then people are like it me,it's me, I've been, I've been
gaslit.
No, you just got lied to.
Lying is part of gaslighting,but it is not the same thing as
gaslighting and that that's oneof the things we it weakens
those words yes, it does.
(16:40):
Yep, so, yeah, you know, youalways have to be watching out
for, like, who is this personand how are they?
Are they using the language?
Are they even supposed to beusing?
Do they know how to use it?
Maybe, maybe not.
Just because they have thatdoctor in front of their name
does not mean that you canactually, unfortunately, trust
them.
And then, of course, there'sthe stuff that's just straight
(17:02):
up lies.
As somebody, of course, whostudies Russian, who is
interested in Russian historyand culture, and all of that, I
do subscribe on Telegram tomultiple propaganda channels.
Now, officially they're newschannels.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
So there's propaganda channels in Russia.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
No, no, no, no no.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
I mean, I've always thought like completely, 100%,
legit.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
Oh, yeah, absolutely.
Okay okay, sorry, yeah, that wasmy mistake there, but those
they're really insidious.
And my favorite thing about themand we do this in the West too,
to be clear, but my favoritething is I'll get a notification
Like somebody in the U?
S was shot and you're like, oh,oh, no, and it's, it's the most
(17:57):
benign story.
They haven't even picked like areal, you know school shooting
or something like that, butthey're just handpicking
anything bad that comes out ofthe us and that's like the, the
urgent news that I literally geta push notification for that
they feel like I need to knowand like, yes, that is true, but
(18:18):
you are manipulating theinformation and you are using it
to create this idea that the USthey're just shootings every
day and fires every day andeverything is just burning and
being shot to pieces at anygiven second.
It's like, no, no, I don'tthink so.
And then I mean, the otherthing you should also be
(18:42):
checking for, of course, issources and all of this.
So you and I found a video,maybe a year ago, that we were
looking at and it was apediatrician.
I think I should have tried torefine it, but I didn't want to
watch his video again and he wastalking about diagnosing
someone.
He was talking about.
Speaker 3 (19:03):
ADHD I think that's the one I'm thinking of of and
talking about how to diagnosethem.
And of course, as we know,that's one of those that it's a
little more complicated becauseyou've got to have different
sources of information.
You can't just rely on oneperson.
So you've got to haveinformation from the school
How's the child doing there?
(19:24):
You've got to have informationfrom the home How's the child
doing there?
You've got to have informationfrom the home How's the child
doing there?
Information from what thepediatrician has observed what
are they doing there and thenagain pulling all of that
together to get the completepicture so that if somebody is
under reporting, somebody elseis over reporting, you can get
that balance reporting somebodyelse is over reporting.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
You can get that balance and you know so like
that.
That's why the, the, the dsm,is like this big, thick,
monstrous book is because it isvery exact, like you know.
Um, you know, just like yousaid, like a kid could show all
the symptoms, like every singlesymptom of ADHD at school.
But it specifically says in theDSM that the kid has to show
(20:13):
them in more than one place, soeither at school and at home, at
school with the personal lifeand things like that with
friends.
So yeah, you can't just saylike, well, I as a teacher see
this and therefore you knowJohnny has ADHD.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
Yeah, but no, no.
I saw a video on Instagram thatsaid if you like to make little
noises to yourself at home, youhave ADHD.
And I like to make littlenoises to yourself at home, you
have ADHD, and I like to makelittle noises to myself at home.
Therefore, right.
So, actually, one person inparticular who I finally blocked
on Instagram because theirvideos kept coming up, it's the
(20:58):
Australian guy Colby Colby Musicsomething you have seen him, I
promise, and he does thesevideos about.
You know, like having ADHD, butit's everything.
It's every symptom.
It's like the T-Rex arms isADHD.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
It's also depression and autism yeah, it's amazing,
like you know, like I even like,even when, like I I've seen
like somebody like saying, likeyou know, um, these are the
signs of, you know, narcissism,and, and they might quote the
(21:39):
dsm, um, but the same thing is,is that I mean there are
multiple sections in the DSM.
For each symptom, you know thatthey have to observe, uh like,
a certain amount from thiscluster.
A certain amount from thiscluster.
Yeah, it's more complex than afive second video.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
Yep, and that's the last question that I've always
try and ask myself.
I'll admit I'm not always goodabout doing this, but what is
the point of of the personposting this?
Because we all know nothing isfree, like everything in life
has to cost something.
Whether you're paying with yourattention, whether you're
(22:21):
paying with your data, whetheryou're paying with money,
somebody is always gettingsomething from you and I think
people forget about that a loton social media because you see
they've listed as oh, this is anad.
You know I'm hawking thisproduct here as an influencer.
Okay, I can easily identifythat and you've been forced to
(22:42):
by law, say that this is whatI'm doing.
But there's so many others wementioned this on our Trad Wives
episode that they reel you inwith.
You know the cute videos, thecute little infographics that I
want to live this life.
You know, yes, this feels likeme.
And then you know you'rereading through the stuff and
you're like, if you want to findout more, comment help and I'll
(23:05):
send you my free ebook.
Or you know, I'll send you thelink to this, or you can, you
know, click the link in my bioto download the information
sheet to fill out to track youremotions.
You were being bought.
That's what's going on there.
These people are posting stuffto reel you in and make you feel
(23:28):
like, yes, this is me, yes, Iwas dating a narcissist.
Oh my God, what do I do now?
Now I've realized, quoteunquote, that that's who my ex
was and that's who my mother wasand my father, oh my God,
everyone in my family is anarcissist.
What do I do?
Help, I'm terrified.
But look, here's this for $199or it's free, but you now have
(23:53):
my email address.
You now have my information.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
You got to love it, I love it.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
They're also the more .
I don't know if they'reactually more benign, I'd say
they're worse.
I think I told you about thisat one point.
You were horrified because wehave a relative who is
completely clueless about these.
You know those posts onFacebook where they're like you
know, make your stripper name,comment below the name of your
childhood pet and the you knowname of the first street you
(24:28):
lived on.
It's like those are securityquestions.
Yes, and now you, joe schmo,with your facebook, with your
photo, have just put thisinformation out publicly.
She has answered a couple ofthose.
(24:50):
You've got to stop.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
Yeah, mom, I love you , but my mom is that relative.
I had to sit down.
I had to give her a huge courseof like you know, like anything
that you see.
Like you know, like any textthat you see, or anything like
that.
If it's not from somebody youknow, you don't click on the
(25:16):
link, you don't call them back.
They say they're Bank ofAmerica.
You look online and you get thenumber from there.
So you know, yeah, I used tohave a full head of hair until
(25:37):
my mom got a cell phone.
But, does your mom use theupside down?
Speaker 1 (25:43):
smiley face in place of a regular smiley face.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
It's okay.
No, no, no, my mom does thegroup chat talking to one person
.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
I guess you know we all have our faults.
Technology is hard, I get it.
So my last favorite example forwhy you have to be really
careful about looking at who isposting it and what they want to
(26:20):
get from you.
You do, you know.
Five minute craft no, I don'tyou do, I promise you do.
You know, blossom, you have seenthese horrific no, no, no.
You know the videos oninstagram or youtube or facebook
where it's like the, the cutoff hands, just kind of doing
something.
It's like, oh no, my glassesdon't fit, oh yes.
And they do this bizarre likecut up the pool noodle.
(26:42):
Use a whole bunch of hot glueto do this.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
The ones that like captivate you, that you know
that you're never, becauseyou've never done any type of
craft, but yet, for some oddreason, you're watching the
entire thing, because what if,one of these days?
Speaker 1 (26:59):
Exactly, and you know sure, If my sunglasses break,
what do I do?
I don't actually carry around ahot glue gun and glue sticks
and pool noodles and God knowswhat else with me at all times.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
How do you not carry this around?
Speaker 1 (27:13):
Good point, good point, I guess I should start.
But you know so, magically youcan have all that, but you don't
have any pair of sunglasses.
They and I think you've seensome of these videos too, I'm
sure just kind of it's going.
They're very brightly colored.
They really are the epitome ofjust trash and you're never
going to use it, but you getdrawn in.
That's Russian propaganda.
(27:36):
Did you know that?
Speaker 2 (27:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
Yeah, they got busted a couple years ago because, in
the background of some of thevideos they were showing,
there'd be like a map of theworld, as you might have, except
, you know, it would show stufflike Crimea being part of Russia
.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
Oh wow, going for the subliminals, as you might have,
except it would show stuff likeCrimea being part of.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
Russia, oh Wow.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
Going for the subliminals.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
Yeah, it can even be some of this stuff when you're
just like this is a harmlessvideo.
This is not convincing someone.
Their entire family isnarcissistic and out to get them
.
That's bad, don't get me wrong,but this is just a little
harmless video.
No, it's not.
This is also bad because youare now subconsciously seeing
(28:21):
this and seeing crimea being thesame being russia.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
It's been included wow yep wow, that that's
actually.
You know what I hate to say.
I give them props like theybuilt up that empire.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
They built it up very slowly and carefully for years,
creating this like people.
Ah, you know, I love fiveminute crafts, I love blossom,
and then it was just like oh,whoopsies, how'd that get in
there?
So I know you do have Instagram, mom, but you don't.
(29:04):
You use it mainly when I sendyou cute animal memes or trash
memes as your child.
That's what I do.
Speaker 3 (29:10):
And to look at other things occasionally but, not not
my primary source ofentertainment.
Speaker 1 (29:17):
But of course you also have Facebook.
How often would you say thatyou see information that you
would question, like any of thisstuff, that if you really
looked and said who's posting it, why are they posting it, what
are they trying to get, at thatyou would get undesirable
answers undesirable answers?
Speaker 3 (29:40):
Probably, unless I go into Facebook for something
very specific and that's whatI'm looking for, maybe what
somebody's posted, or I'm goingin to message somebody through
Facebook, then I'm not.
I'm in and out.
But if I'm not doing that, ifit's oh, let me just scroll
through my feed.
Every single time.
I will see videos of things,and you're right.
(30:01):
There are the what appear to beinnocuous, easy crafts that you
can do.
Speaker 1 (30:08):
Yep, little things like that.
I know obviously Patches, yousee that a lot because we sit
with each other sometimes.
I know, obviously patches, yousee that a lot because we sit
with each other sometimes.
But I mean, would you consideryou and I I think have disagreed
a little bit on this thosevideos like the call out videos
(30:29):
and stuff like that?
Would you put this in that as,like this is potentially
misrepresenting stuff?
So to explain to you, mom,sometimes there will be videos
where somebody says I hate dogs,dogs are the worst, get rid of
all the dogs.
And so somebody will come inand stitch that video and be
like, oh, look at this person.
You know they said blah, blah,blah.
(30:49):
That's true, that's not true.
Sometimes people will, ifsomebody has left a comment,
they will call them out about it, like go to their profile,
looking for this information,because to me I think that is
adjacent to this stuff, becauseyou don't know the whole story.
You've just got this littlevideo and they're showing you
the snippets of it and thenthey're commenting on what they
(31:12):
think the person was saying.
I know you like them sometimes,which is why I ask.
Speaker 2 (31:18):
So, okay, it depends, I mean it's, and and this is
kind of one of the things thatthat I tend to disagree with on
a lot of your call out videos asa whole is the fact that, like
all or nothing, thinking, youknow, like a lot of people will
say all men do this or all youknow, like women do this, or you
(31:40):
know if, if you're calling outon a certain group, you know, I,
I think I really hate that ifthey're calling out on a certain
comment, it depends on howobvious the comment is.
I mean, there are some thingsthat you just don't say because
you just don't say but yeah, Imean it's, it's really hard to
(32:02):
really gauge on things becauseof the fact that, just as you
said, you don't know the wholestory.
I mean, I love this example ofyou know, like communication
wise, uh, I love the example ofI didn't say she took my money.
And it's seven words, same.
Or, and you can say I didn'tsay she took my money.
I didn't say she took my money,I didn't say she.
(32:25):
You know, and each, if youemphasize a different word, you
have seven completely differentmeaning sentences based off of
seven words that are in the sameorder.
It's just what are youemphasizing.
Speaker 1 (32:39):
No, it's true, and you completely miss, I think, a
lot of that nuance and I thinkpeople don't want to see it.
Certainly, my take for stuffthat I see online and even stuff
, for instance, in like aneighborhood Facebook page, that
people, people see what theywant to see in somebody's
comment and they go from thereand then the next person sees
what they want to see and isthat the original posters fault
(33:02):
Sometimes, sometimes not.
Speaker 2 (33:06):
Yeah, if, if you're, if you're commenting on a
comment of a comment, of acomment, you know it becomes a
game of telephone.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
So a question for you and then for you.
So we're going to get the, Iguess the boomer and the gin
Alpha.
Speaker 3 (33:26):
No, you still got Gen Z as students, I think, so I
may have some alpha.
Speaker 1 (33:33):
When was?
Our alpha is 2013.
I think you don't have alphayet.
When?
Speaker 2 (33:37):
was alpha.
Speaker 1 (33:37):
Alpha is 2013.
Yeah, alpha is.
I think you don't have alphayet.
They're coming.
Speaker 3 (33:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:45):
It would still be the Gen Z that sounds horrible.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
That sounds horrible.
The alphas are, they're coming,they are.
Speaker 3 (34:23):
They are, but do you think that you see more
misinformation, disinformation,amongst people?
Your a really broad range ofages, because it encompassed a
large period of time, but Ithink that people in my
generation are probably a littlemore gullible.
We're still a little moretrusting than your generation,
for instance, and again, beingcareful not to overgeneralize
and go everybody is this, but Ithink we are far more likely to
(34:48):
fall victim to a scam than youare, whether it's a telephone
scam or an email scam, whetherit's a telephone scam or an
email scam.
And so it's maybe not so muchthat we are putting
disinformation out there, but weare probably more susceptible
to it.
And I think, in terms of thestudents that I work with, I
(35:14):
would say that they are probablymore savvy about a lot of
things.
They're more technologicallysavvy because they've grown up
with it.
They've grown up withsmartphones, they have been
exposed more to, oh, the evilsof the internet and you have to
be able to figure out is thisokay or is this not okay?
(35:34):
So I think they hold a realadvantage because of those
experiences.
Speaker 1 (35:42):
So what about good old Gen X?
We used to play outside untilthe sun went down.
Speaker 2 (35:49):
So okay.
So I look at this way, like Ithink the boomers are actually
okay.
So I think it's kind of one ofthese type of scales where as
one goes down, the other goes up.
So I think that boomergeneration is more trusting and
(36:09):
everything like that, but isalso more informed in the in the
idea of like factualinformation, so, like one of the
things seeing the thing abouthow it wasn't until 9-11.
9-11 became your first like hugeconspiracy theories.
You had loose change where, ifyou don't know about that, it
(36:34):
was like a, a video that wasgoing around um, shortly after
9-11.
It was showing about how thisis where, like a lot of these
theories, of steel doesn't meltat this uh temperature and you
know the world trade timercouldn't have fallen down from
you know the jet fuel and therewere booms that were heard
throughout the the you knowworld trade timer before it came
(36:56):
down.
That that was based off of thisvideo and the thing was is like
internet, like my, my parents,uh, so my, my mom was born in 40
, 43, my dad was born in 45, uh,so when it came to new
technology, my house wasprobably one of the last ones to
(37:18):
get like that new technology.
So it was like one of thesethings like uh, internet first
started really kind of comingaround, maybe like 96, 97, but
like our house, we had it in2000, and so 9-11 was the first
big thing, like after like theinternet.
Like really, you know, like uhtook off, uh, and that was like
(37:43):
the first instance of you knowum large-scale conspiracies.
So that's where I kind of say,like you know, like the, the
kind of trade-off of you know,like the boomers are more
factually informed but sincethey are more trusting, they are
less scam informed versus wherethe later end of Gen X and
(38:08):
forward is more or is lessfactually informed and more scam
wise.
Speaker 1 (38:16):
I can see it because I think millennials are kind of
the same too, where we're in aweird spot and and gen z I hate
to lump us in the same categoryas tide pods, but you know, you
know people know to look for.
You know who is the source like.
(38:36):
If it's a newspaper, you'relike this is good newspaper,
this is bad newspaper, like Ithink we're good at that.
But somehow then we get on theinternet and it's like but the
narcissists?
I just I can't tell you howmuch I see about narcissism
online these days when I don'twant to, but there's so much of
it out there and clearly it'sbecause people are clicking on
(39:00):
it, they're looking at it andit's this idea of well, but I
saw it here and I saw thisinfographic about it and I think
you know people are worried,they don't understand.
They're like why did?
Why did I get ghosted?
Why did this happen?
And so you're looking for areason and somehow, if it comes
from Instagram, it must be true.
I don't know why we do that, butI just I see a lot of people my
(39:22):
age reposting stuff or likingstuff.
It's like if you spent fiveseconds looking at this, I think
you would probably understandthat.
You know five signs he's microflirting with you, really,
really.
I can see that you've likedthis post.
Come on, I'm gonna stage anintervention here.
(39:46):
But somehow that feels real tous and, as a result, it just it
allows this misinformation tojust keep spreading and it opens
the door, too, for people totake advantage of you if you're
already in this vulnerable spotand you're like but is he
flirting with me?
Is he interested?
It does seem like the five signsof micro-flirting are true.
What is micro-flirting?
(40:06):
I don't know.
That's never been explained tome, despite all the posts I
looked at about micro-flirtingto see if I could understand
micro flirting, to see if Icould understand why.
These are the five signs Notclear that that we're we're
totally okay with, and I thinkthat then, if you have somebody
who uses that, they can a lafive minute crafts, suck you in
(40:29):
and then be like whoops justgoing to put this little
disinformation up in the cornerhere.
Oh, no, crimea.
Speaker 2 (40:38):
Russia, of course.
Now, when was the last time youknow, lindsay?
When was the last time that youpicked up a newspaper?
When was the last time that youactually watched actual news?
Speaker 1 (40:51):
Uh, so I do on my phone.
I do read the New York Times,but a physical newspaper has
probably been years Plural.
Speaker 2 (41:04):
Mom same question.
Speaker 3 (41:06):
Yeah, so we stopped getting physical newspapers
several years ago.
So I read our local newspaper,local daily, online.
Most days I read bits of theNew York Times online.
We'll occasionally read someother newspapers online, but not
(41:27):
the physical picking up thepaper.
Sometimes I don't know.
Are these online articles legit?
It says it's coming from theMarietta Daily Journal, but
maybe it's not.
Speaker 2 (41:44):
I mean I know like I'll read like an article here
and there on the Times, but Iwon't actually go through it.
Speaker 1 (41:53):
Yeah, I pick what's interesting, I'll be honest,
unless I'm desperate and I'msitting on the Metro and like
absolutely bored and you're likewhat's this article here?
Speaker 2 (42:01):
But Okay, so when was the last time that you read a
informational book, not likebook for pleasure, but like
something like you know, like,actually reading like, like
something like you know, like,uh, actually reading like, I
mean, um, you know somethinginformational um, definitely
(42:24):
very recently, of course.
Speaker 1 (42:26):
Um, um, can I pass?
I've, I've read books, butpurely for pleasure.
Okay, take one for the team youknow, help us out here.
Speaker 3 (42:47):
You've read something useful, yeah so so I've
actually read several books thisyear, not Not recently, but
these were not even on my phone.
These were actual copies of thebooks Read several this year.
Speaker 2 (43:04):
You know, when it comes to like.
You know, like, like searchwork and things like that,
purely based off books, becauselike, yeah, I mean, if you're,
if I'm going to get myinformation off of you know,
like Cutie Pie or something likethat.
Speaker 1 (43:19):
You pronounced it correctly.
Speaker 2 (43:20):
I'm so proud of you, hey you know what, after finding
out where he is nowadays, I'mglad I don't know who that was
this is true, you know a lot ofpeople are getting their
information, you know, like, offof.
You know what is narcissismlike?
Yeah, you know, like I said, Iyou know sometimes they're
(43:44):
listing like things on the dsm,so on the surface level it looks
legit but, um, you know, unlessyou're actually looking in
information, you know like, yeah, well, unless you're even using
it correctly.
Speaker 1 (43:57):
Because you and I also at some point found a video
of some doctor again, they hadqualifications and he was
talking about some studies thathad been done and just making
some kind of wild claims.
And I think between the two ofus we spent over an hour
(44:18):
tracking down these studies fromwhat he had listed and then had
to Google stuff and found partof it and then that was an
article and from the articlefound a link to another article
and from that article found alink to the study.
And then you still had to gointo the study and actually
scroll down and use yournon-existent math skills to
understand what was writtenthere.
(44:39):
And you're like, looking at thetables and some of what he had
said was true.
I don't remember what exactlythis was about.
Unfortunately, some of it wasnot, some of it was an
exaggeration, like oh you,you're, you know, seven times
more likely to be depressed, orsomething like that.
And when you looked at theactual numbers it was like but
(45:02):
it's not, that was a veryspecific subset that had, you
know, dealt with childhood abuseand this, and that it was like
when you ticked boxes A, B, C, D, E, F, G, then you were seven
times more likely.
But you're representing it asif you tick any of the boxes,
(45:23):
even just one.
You are seven times more likely, or whatever it was, to be
depressed.
And it's not true.
And you should know that as adoctor.
And it's not true.
And you should know that as adoctor, you should be able if me
, who failed math twice in highschool, can figure that out, you
know it's bad.
(45:44):
So where do you see this goingQuestion for both of you.
Do you see it getting better?
Do you see it getting worse?
Is there anything that could bedone to other than deleting
Instagram off of everyone'sphones?
Speaker 3 (46:03):
So I mean, one of the phrases that's kicked around a
lot in education these days iscritical thinking and the idea
of teaching people how to takein information and examine it
and decide how much of this isworthwhile, how much of this is
(46:27):
applicable to me, how much ofthis is realistic, does it fit
with my knowledge about theworld in general?
Does it fit with my knowledgeabout this topic specifically?
And so I think, with that inmind, helping people learn how
to utilize critical thinking tobe able to look at something and
(46:49):
not just accept it wholesale oh, yeah, well, it's, you know, dr
.
So-and-so Well, what does thedoctor in front of their name
mean?
You know, is this a self-imposedtitle?
Did you get a doctorate inEnglish literature?
Yeah, or, you know, is it likeDr J, the basketball player?
You know his name?
(47:11):
So yeah, and so what's thebasis of that?
What's the basis of you know?
What credentials do you have tobe able to say this?
And then, even just looking atit from the standpoint of what
does this feel like to me?
Does something feel off aboutit and if so, why?
(47:34):
What feels off and how can Iinvestigate further?
Speaker 1 (47:39):
Fake dad since we've had mom.
Fake dad since we've had mom I.
Speaker 2 (47:45):
So I think that you know, I, I agree with you.
I think that, um, I think thatthis is definitely something
that should go into either,should be taught like all
throughout, like grade school,elementary, uh, high school, I
mean, um, we can replace typingclass at this point.
(48:06):
You know, I don't know too manypeople who don't know how to
type by the age of like two.
You know, and I remember, youknow, we had to take a class in
college and we went to thelibrary and it was, you know,
(48:27):
learning to look at thecitations and things, and one of
the examples that the librariangave us was martinlutherkingorg
, and you know it was like, okay, you know, org organization.
You know it was like, okay, youknow, dot org organization now
looks legitimate, uh, until youlook at the very bottom where it
(48:48):
is like, you know, like, uh,something thunder or
stormtroopers or something likethat, which is a white
supremacist group that is whatthe page is ran by.
Oh, that's fun.
So, obviously, like you know,white supremacist group, having
a page of martinluthergameorg isnot going to be exactly like
(49:13):
non-biased or factual, really.
So, like I think, like you know, like being able to, you know,
critical thinking, uh, and Ithink it's.
I'm kind of worried because Ithink it's going to be worse
before it gets better.
You know, I think that you know, unfortunately, like right now,
(49:37):
even if we started right now,we're waiting 20 years for that
group to enter into themainstream and it's yeah, so
there are solutions.
But, unfortunately, the peoplewho are currently in the depth
(50:01):
of it as of right now, um, thoseare the, those are the people
that are the problem, like youknow, like, oh, I already know
this information, because lifecoach, uh, you know, tiffany,
you know, said that this is uhwhat it is, and if she's a life
coach, then you know, she knows,uh, you know her stuff and
(50:21):
stuff, and it's like no, there'sa reason why she's saying the
life coach, not a therapist,like yeah, it's like all the
people on the internet whothey're super fit and they're
like do these three easyexercises to snatch your waist
and build your glutes?
Speaker 1 (50:37):
like, yeah, I'm sure you do do those exercises, in
addition to about 20 otherdifferent ones that you actually
do at the gym with real weights, which is why you look like
this and that's why you, insteadof being an actual personal
trainer at the gym, you're onInstagram making videos, because
(51:00):
you don't actually know how tocoach clients.
You know how to do this toyourself, or you were
genetically blessed and so youjust look really good and you
were going to use that, and ifpeople saw you in real life,
they might be like, I don't know, man, I feel like something's
off here, like now that thefilter isn't there to snatch in
the waist a little moreuntrustworthy.
(51:24):
So, on our scale of toxicity,where would both of you rank
this?
Is this a green potato?
Um, and this meaning falseinformation online and people's
ability to differentiate between.
Is this legit, is this notlegit, legit and how trustworthy
(51:45):
is it?
Because of course, it's notjust black and white.
It's not a hard quote.
It is true or it is false.
Obviously, there's manydifferent variations in between.
Is this whole problem a greenpotato?
It will make you sick if youeat it, but not going to die.
Is this a death cap mushroom 5050 chance of dying even if it
is cooked?
Or is this antifreeze, adelicious but deadly last snack
(52:09):
when mixed with lime jellopatches?
What do you think?
Put you on the spot first?
Speaker 2 (52:15):
I would have to say this is death cap, concerning
the fact that, uh, concerningthe fact that we are, you know,
like the, the one that I wassaying about earlier, where you
know, like freaking out a totalguy or a guy just to teach him a
lesson, you know you're, you'replaying with somebody's
(52:37):
emotions, you're playing withtheir, their head.
Actually, you know what I I'mgoing to have to put this up
there because, on what it's usedfor, I would have to say, hi,
deathcap, deathcap Plus, becauseyou know, like, in that example
, you're playing, you know, andalso, this guy who could be on
(52:57):
the verge of, you know like,hating women, and you know like,
could be the the tipping pointfor that person.
I think that you know, uh,especially like you know people
who are, you know, because weall want to have answers, uh, we
all want to be able to like,you know like, and if I, you
(53:19):
know, if you're kind of sittingthere and, uh, you don't have
good focus and all of a suddenyou're hearing all these things.
So these are the signs of ADHDand they're like, very generic,
like you know, like symptoms.
Now, this person's, you know,taking away the focus, of trying
to question and putting it tolike, okay, I have the answer,
(53:40):
let me find this, you know,solution to this answer, and you
know that's kind of taken awayfrom like okay, you know,
another thing that is going tocause somebody to lose focus is
also depression, you know.
So if you're now like goingfurther and further into like
depression or something likethat and putting all of your
time and energy into ADHD, wellthat's taken away from going to
(54:05):
a therapist and actually seeingsomebody.
About getting the answers tosomething that's more feasible.
Speaker 1 (54:13):
I can see that.
Speaker 3 (54:16):
Mom, how would you rate this?
It as a death cap, becausethere are a lot of examples out
there that are pretty benign,where people are giving bad
information but nobody's goingto be hurt by it.
People may be offended by it,but that's going to be the
extent of it, but there are theinstances where they're talking
about things that are reallyserious matters, and so, if they
(54:41):
convince you, you only havethis with you if you meet these
criteria.
Well, those may not be theright criteria, and so, again,
the person may not get thetreatment that they need,
whether it's for mental healthor physical health, and if
they're giving bad information,and doing it with such an
(55:03):
authoritative manner, it can behard for people to ignore, and I
think there's the potential forpeople to be seriously hurt,
particularly people who aredesperately seeking something
and are unwilling, unable to goto a reliable source a therapist
(55:26):
, a medical doctor, whoever itwould be and they're trying to
get to whatever is going on.
Well, this is it, I've found it, and it's not it.
Then, the lack of treatment, orthe whatever treatment that
they opt to get, based on this,could be really dangerous, could
(55:46):
be harmful for them.
Speaker 1 (55:49):
I debated if I could try and spin this as an
antifreeze just to createproblems, but I don't think I
can, which is probably a goodthing.
I think it is.
I think it is a death cap, likeboth of you said, a high death
cap.
It's maybe a couple of deathcap mushrooms mixed in to your
pizza, because, yeah, there'splenty of stuff, like with the
(56:10):
calming chews that we got forFiona the dog, where it's like
you know what she thought theywere tasty.
It didn't do anything to calmher down.
But no harm, no foul, okay, butthere's so much of it that can
lead to really, really nastystuff, where we talk about this,
probably about every otherepisode, that all it takes is
for somebody to be in a not goodplace feeling good, or I'm kind
(56:33):
of, you know, feeling like I'mangry at men or women and you
see one of these videos thatputs all of this blame on
somebody and that kind of pushesyou over there.
You see this video, like yousaid, of the woman.
You said, oh, I put somethingin your drink and you were
(56:55):
already mad at women.
You're like see all women,they're manipulative, they're
going to do this to you, they'regoing to lie, they think it's
funny and it's all it takes.
Is that one thing that kind ofpushes you over?
And there is stuff that can bedangerous to your health.
The whole fitness side, thewhole wellness side of the
(57:15):
internet.
That's like message me or DM meand I'll send you 10 healthy
smoothies that will cure youradrenal fatigue.
What is this?
You've just made up this idea.
Toxins, toxins, everywhere.
I'll get my great toxin burnerdrink recipe.
(57:37):
You don't have toxins in you.
If you had toxins in your body,we have bigger issues.
You don't have toxins in your.
If you had toxins in your body,we have bigger issues and that
can lead to very serious healthproblems, eating disorders.
It can lead to death in somecases.
So yeah, I think, until peoplelearn how to properly analyze
and not just learn how butactually then use it on the
(58:00):
regular, which is hard, I get-it.
It's tough times.
Speaker 3 (58:09):
Yeah, it wouldn't be.
Speaker 2 (58:11):
It's like 90%, but nine is just a.
Is a 10% that really?
Speaker 3 (58:16):
brings it up to yeah.
Speaker 1 (58:20):
Yeah, so if you have ever seen something on Instagram
that you thought was sketchy,you can send it to us.
We have Instagram.
We have X.
X has so much sketchy stuff onthere.
Please don't send it to usthere.
We see enough on our ownFacebook email threads.
We've got most of the socialmedias.
(58:40):
We would love to hear from youall there if you have any
experiences with this.
Of course, our email address istoxic at awesome life skillscom
and until next week, we'll seeyou then.
Bye.
Speaker 2 (58:56):
Bye.
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