February 24, 2025 • 33 mins
This episode explores the complexities of modern leadership through the lens of authenticity, vulnerability, and coaching. Kourtney Moody shares her experiences in overcoming stereotypes as a female leader, the significance of mentorship, and the necessity of aligning core values with organizational practices.
• Importance of authentic relationships in leadership
• Balancing assertiveness and expectations placed on female leaders
• Role of mentorship and diversity in personal development
• Navigating professional vulnerability and genuine connections
• Aligning personal values with organizational culture
• Importance of building and maintaining trust through consistency and intuition
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The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the speakers and guests and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of any organization or entity. The information provided in this podcast is intended for educational and informational purposes only and should not be considered as professional advice. Listeners should consult with their own professional advisors before implementing any suggestions or recommendations made in this podcast. The speakers and guests are not responsible for any actions taken by listeners based on the information presented in this podcast. The podcast is not intended to be a substitute for professional advice or services. The speakers and guests make no representations or warranties of any kind, express or implied, about the completeness, accuracy, reliability, suitability or availability with respect to the information, products, services, or related graphics contained in this ...
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to Turning Point Leadership Podcast with
your host, ron Harvey of GlobalCore Strategies and Consulting.
Ron's delighted you joined usand excited to discuss and help
you navigate your journeytowards becoming an effective
leader.
During this podcast, ron willshare his core belief that
effective leadership is one ofthe key drivers towards change.
So together let's grow asleaders.
(00:25):
Here's Ron Harvey.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Well, good afternoon.
This is Ron Harvey, the VicePresident, chief Operating
Officer for Global CoreStrategies and Consulting
professional leadershipdevelopment firm.
But today is not about ourcompany.
Today is about our guests thatcome on and they talk about the
things that we make look realeasy as leaders.
So I'm always excited to bringguests on to do what we call
Unpack with Ron Harvey.
I don't know what we're goingto talk about, except for one
(00:51):
topic leadership and then we'regoing to go based on our guests.
What is it that's showing upthat I'll ask more questions
about?
We have fun, we talk about allstuff.
We're pretty transparent.
So our guests are pretty bravebecause they don't know any of
the questions as well as I don'teither.
So I always tell them thank youfor coming on without any
notice as far as the pre read orprescripted.
So what we talk about is notscripted.
(01:11):
So I'm a pause.
I'm going to let our guestsintroduce themselves, as I
always do.
They can share as little, asmuch as they want you to know
about them.
There are.
There are no limits as far aswhat they want to share and
there's no requirement of howmuch they share.
So, good friend of mine,courtney, thank you for coming
on the show.
Looking forward to thisconversation.
Thank you for coming, so let melet you introduce yourself.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
Well, good afternoon.
And Ron, I just wanted to saythank you for having me on.
Since we met at LeadershipColumbia where we were at
orientation and you were readingus the RIDAC and putting us on
game, you know we instantlyclicked.
So I just your friendship meansa lot and I just I just want to
say thank you for the workyou're doing in the community.
But, like you said, my name isCourtney Moody.
(01:51):
I have been living in Columbiafor about four years.
I am an original Georgia peach.
Born in Atlanta, georgia wentto high school in Las Vegas.
A proud, proud MichiganWolverine graduate ran track and
cross country in college andthen I've moved around across
the US in my professional career, from St Louis, cleveland, ohio
(02:13):
, louisville, kentucky, andColumbia has been the longest
place I have stayed in my adultlife, so it definitely feels
like it's home.
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Yes, yes, I will tell you.
You know, I got to knowCourtney where she said
leadership, columbia.
She's done a lot in thecommunity.
We met in a room and I love herstyle because as much as I give
people a ride at, she holds herown.
I mean, she'll show up andshe'll have that nice smile.
But she's about business, butshe's also about fun and I'll
tell leaders Courtney, you don'talways have to be especially as
a female leader in this world.
(02:45):
You know you got to be able tohold it, but you also can still
be a woman.
You can also still have thatpart of you.
So let's dive into some of that.
What have you learned?
To navigate and still stay trueto you, but also stay true in
the boardroom too, because thereare people watching and you're
making, you're building somepathways for other women that
look like you.
What did you have to learn?
And navigate and do?
Speaker 3 (03:04):
That's a great question, I think early on in my
career.
So, having the athleticbackground, you, even though
you're a woman, you got that dogin you but you do to your point
.
You got to balance that RightBecause it's very as a black
woman, off the bat you can belabeled as aggressive or, you
know, outspoken, and one of thethings I found that was common
(03:25):
ground, no matter who I wastalking to a white male, white
female, another African-Americancounterpart was sports.
I leveraged that to find thatcommon ground so we get to know
each other and understanding hey, she's not aggressive, she just
wants to win.
Right, and they understand thebackground.
So if I say or do certain things, it didn't come off that way.
(03:47):
But I've managed teams where itwas 10 white males and I was
like you got it, you got to finda way to relate to them, be
relatable.
But I've, I've leveraged mysports background and my passion
for sports and winning as a wayto kind of thread that needle
where I'm still going to beCourtney.
But it's not because needlewhere I'm still going to be
Courtney, but it's not becauseof where I come from, it's the
experiences that I've had whereI've been in competitive
(04:10):
environments.
I've had to scratch and claw toget to where I needed to go, so
that was one of the tacticsthat I've used throughout my
professional career.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
How do you help women balance not being because women
don't always get a great titleif they're too aggressive how do
you help be assertive is thelanguage I'll say versus overly
aggressive, so it doesn't rubpeople the wrong way and
unfortunately we got to havethat conversation, but it's real
.
How do you manage to make surethat you don't stay quiet in the
corner and wait for someoneopens the door and give you the
opportunity that you also got tokind of let them know you want
(04:40):
it and you got to work for it?
Speaker 3 (04:50):
Yeah, I think, going back to the balances, you have
to check yourself and yourintention.
Right, I am a hundred percentwoman's advocate and always will
be right.
But there are, just like on themasculine side, there are
attributes where you have tocheck yourself.
Say, guard your heart.
Are you doing this because youtruly do have an attitude which,
at that point, the feedbackyou're getting is not off base,
or is it a misunderstanding,right?
But before I step into a roomor step into a space where there
(05:11):
may need to be a pushing of theagenda or some assertiveness, I
always check my intentions.
You know, what is it that youwant to convey to the team and
why?
So if I'm going into it alreadywith negative intentions or
this defensiveness about what Ineed to get done, that's going
to show up and unfortunately, toyour point, it translates to
(05:32):
aggressiveness versus hey, look,let's stop, let's unpack this.
I want you all to seek tounderstand and you can do that
and still be assertive, but itstarts with you checking your
heart and your intentions beforeyou go into a space or a
meeting or something like that.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
Wow, okay, courtney, we got to unpack this.
So you're telling these leadersthey got to come in touch with
their heart.
Now people will push back likeI can't have any feelings and I
can't show that side, and blah,blah, blah.
How do you manage that?
Because I'm 100% on board withyou.
Check your heart, and I do leadwith my heart.
I tell people that all the timeI care about people.
Now, I do hold a high standard,but I genuinely care about
people.
How do you do that withoutbeing taken advantage of?
Speaker 3 (06:11):
So I started some work some years ago.
I started reading the Bible andyou would be surprised how it
gives you self-awareness, Right.
So I'll give you an example.
There's a young lady on my teamand she was having some
challenges with somebody and shewas giving her feedback and she
was extremely defensive and shecalled me so I'm going to tell
(06:32):
her this and that I said stop.
Right there I said you cannothave this conversation right now
because you're too round up.
You are reacting to the noteshe sent back, Right.
So there has to be a time and aplace, meaning if you know
you're roundup, stop.
But that requires you to doyour pre-work is understanding
your triggers, understandingwhen you're having a petty
(06:53):
moment and when you're justdoing the job.
But it's that self-work thatreally has nothing to do with
your professional space.
It's your own self-developmentthat is gonna be very valuable
in your personal and yourprofessional life.
I have two younger sisters.
We're stair steps when I tellyou was the petty wars in the
Moody household there?
Nobody's out petty me.
But as you mature and you'relike OK, am I doing this for a
(07:19):
get back or am I really tryingto help this person?
But that was that self-work Ihad to do outside of my
professional career, so I showup better as a leader.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
I love it.
I mean, because you go into aplace is.
Do you have an example whereyou know you dealt with your
sister or professionally, whereyou felt like someone was
actually intentionally doing adig on you or trying to get you
and get you wound up so they canreally make you come out of
character?
If so, how did you overcomethat in the moment?
Because it's easy to do whenthings are calm and no one's
watching, but the light is onand everybody's watching.
(07:49):
How do you do it in that momentwhen someone's actually
embarrassed?
Speaker 3 (07:52):
My sisters every day, whether it's on the group chat.
I fly home to Las Vegas becausethey live in Vegas for a family
to every day.
And it was a work in progress.
It was literally clash of thetitans through the years.
And my mom would say I don'tlike, I don't understand, why
are you fighting?
She was an only child.
I said she's not going to getme, I'm not going to let her
(08:13):
have this.
But as you mature and you startto understand that there are
going to be times I need her todo things and there are going to
be times she needs me and youget to this place of one picking
your battles.
Is this worth it?
Am I going to die on this hill?
But two, there's something inmy sister right now that she's
struggling with that she doesn'tsee in herself.
(08:34):
And when you can take a stepback and see that the need to
want to be petty and get back,you start to say, okay, this is
not the time or the place.
You can have that one because Igot this over here.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
Yeah, let's talk about your professional career.
I mean, as I looked at yourprofile and a team feeds me
information on you, I know youpersonally you know really
appreciate the friendship Forwomen that are in your place
coming out of college and thecareers you have at Pepsi, I
think at least 12 years or more,and you're in a new
organization now and you'vemoved a lot.
What were the things that youhave to be prepared for if
(09:08):
you're going to chase yourcareer or you're going to want
to be solid in this career as afemale, if you're going to chase
your career or you're going towant to be solid in this career
as a female, what are somethings you had to be prepared to
do?
That's not naturally theprogression ladder that people
look at.
You know people come out andwant to have a family, or they
want to have kids or they wantto stay in one location.
What are some things you had tocome to reality with for you to
be successful as a woman?
Speaker 3 (09:31):
So when I left undergrad I needed a job,
couldn't go back home.
My dad was like, turn in yourkey.
And I was like you, just that'sit.
Like that's it.
He's like, yeah, turn in yourkey.
So I was like, well, I got tofigure something out and
fortunately the athleticdepartment had.
I would tell the people comingout of college use your
resources right and use themintentionally.
It's not a handout, but ifyou're a part of certain
organizations, leverage this.
(09:52):
So she knew the HR partner atPepsi and she was like just go
to the interview.
I'm like, all right, so I goand I get the job.
And it was hey, it's a veryearly accelerated management
program.
If you come in, learn thebusiness from the ground up, you
can move fast.
But the caveat was you had to bewilling to move.
And again I'm like I justturned 22,.
(10:14):
But I was in a position beforethere was commitment where I
could and moved to St Louis,missouri, from Ann Arbor,
michigan, and was like I'm justgoing to give it everything I
got.
But through the years Irealized I was getting the phone
calls for the jobs because Iwas willing to do what other
people weren't.
And that's really what it boilsdown to is kind of that cost of
(10:39):
entry Are you willing to dowhat other people are not?
That means the jobs that quitecandidly suck, meaning you're on
call 21st and you're working ina warehouse, you're out on
trucks.
But I was willing to do thatbecause I knew where I wanted to
go.
I did know how all the pieceswould come in line, but I was
like nobody's going to outworkme and I'm going to be willing
to do what people aren't goingto ask.
And so what was happening was Iwas getting the phone calls like
(11:01):
hey, are you ready to go?
And I had this great mentor.
He was like I'm going to behonest with you.
When I call and recruit talentinternally, the person that gets
that role may not have beennumber one on my list because
the first two probably said,well, no, I can't move, it's not
the right time, and they wantto finagle over things they
don't want to do.
So as you work your way downthe list of that top five,
(11:23):
before you know it you'regetting the phone call and your
career is accelerating so muchfaster that way.
I know everybody can't do that,but early on, if you're willing
to take the jobs and go placesthat nobody else will.
You're going to get those phonecalls.
I never asked for these jobs.
I was always called.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
Now again.
Speaker 3 (11:40):
Was I always number one on the list?
Probably not, but I knew whereI wanted to go and I was willing
to give up things to get there,so that's how we got here.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
Yes, yes, thank you for sharing, and let's unpack
something you said in thatconversation though the role of
mentors in your life as aprofessional.
How important have those beenand how do you intentionally or
strategically make sure you havethem?
Speaker 3 (12:01):
They've been invaluable and I've had every
kind of profile of a mentorRight.
I think an area of caution iswe can tend to, especially as
African-Americans.
While we need each other, Ican't just have all
African-American women mentoringme right, because I'm getting
that perspective right.
I've had tons of white malesthat have supported me, tons of
white women that have supportedme, tons of African-American
(12:22):
males and the likes, and I thinkyou need to have diversity with
people you're having mentor youand people that you're
mentoring.
I think the best advice I gotfrom a mentor for having dinner
one night and was talking to himabout my team and I'm like hey,
like this is the struggle, andhe said here's what you have to
(12:43):
understand.
He said there are going to bepeople on the team or in an
organization that it doesn'tmatter what you do.
You give them a million dollarsin a briefcase and guess what?
They're going to be mad becauseyou gave it to them, because
it's all in one dollar bills,yes, and so it's those little
(13:03):
nuggets that they have providedthat have helped.
I think, secondarily, this is abig one the way I've tried to
carry myself throughout mycareer.
Have I always gotten it right?
No, I have made so manymissteps, but there's something
about you, if you're carryingyourself in a certain way, when
you walk in a room, that youmight have people wanting to
mentor you.
I've had people reach out to meand say, hey, I would love to
just stay connected or mentoryou because of the aura or the
(13:25):
way I walked into the room right, and that also goes a long way.
So presentation matters, howyou carry yourself also matters,
and that's it's just paid offfor me, but also paying it
forward and mentoring otherpeople as well.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
Yeah, I love that you hit both.
How you show up in the room.
That makes it where people wantto mentor you.
They'll come because they seepotential within you in the
workplace.
I know you've had your fairshare of crucial conversations
of conflict.
How do you manage to workthrough that while at the same
time leaving both people intact?
Speaker 3 (13:55):
That's a good one.
So I'm going to kind of answerthis in reverse.
So my uncle owns a constructioncompany and one of the things
he tells people because he getsa lot of people reaching out to
him but I think early on when hewas building his company, he
said, when you have to have adifficult conversation or quite
candidly sometimes, let peoplego.
Let them leave with theirdignity intact.
(14:17):
And so I always try to live bythat, that even if it's a
difficult conversation,somebody's not performing,
somebody's made a big mistake,no matter what happens when that
conversation is over, I want toensure they leave with their
dignity and that they arefeeling respected.
Right, these are people who aremoms, they're dads, they're
spouses, they have family, and Iwould never want them to walk
(14:39):
away feeling less than, and so Ialways try to balance that.
And again, you can be stern andnot be a jerk, don't be a jerk.
I'm not a screamer, I don'thave a screaming voice, but my
tone should not be elevated and,quite candidly, if you need to
use the lean in real close,that's going to get their
attention just as much if youwere.
I'm serious, like my ninth gradeEnglish teacher.
(15:02):
He has moved on.
He has got his JD, his PhD, andso he's like hey, I'm in spaces
where I'm having difficultconversations.
He was like a superintendent ofschools and there's tension in
the room and these ladies arelike well, are you here to take
my job?
And he said, of course not, butlean in.
If I wanted it I could take it.
And that's just as impactful assaying you better, not, you
(15:23):
know.
So there are ways around it.
But the guiding principle whenyou're having a difficult
conversation is stick to thefacts, right, fact-based
evidence when you're having thatconversation, and always they
should walk away with theirdignity and respect still intact
when that conversation isconcluded?
Speaker 2 (15:42):
Yes, I agree.
I mean, according to ourfriends and we'd be having those
conversations like look herewe're supposed to be at lunch.
What's wrong with your schedule?
Exactly, yeah, but theimportant part is you do leave
people intact.
But I love that.
You say you know, know youdon't have to be a jerk to hold
people accountable, and mostpeople think they gotta yell,
scream, curse.
You know it's not necessary.
Like you should not lose yourcharacter based on someone
(16:03):
else's behavior, and so I lovethat.
Your uncle, you know, taughtyou that and say you know you
walk away with.
People should still berespected with their dignity.
You know, at the end of thatsomeone's mother, that someone's
no husband or wife, you aunt,they're still loved by someone.
You should treat them in thatspace the right way.
Let's pivot a little bit.
As you think of leadership andpeople are trying to navigate
(16:24):
this.
What's the most important roleyou think leaders play in the
lives of the people that they'reresponsible for?
Speaker 3 (16:29):
I think leadership has evolved.
I remember being a kid.
You know you watch TV.
You watch all types of stuffyou ain't supposed to be
watching and you see this likestereotype of what it wasn't
even a leader, it was a boss,right.
And I love now that you'resaying leadership like I'm not a
boss, I'm a coach, I'm a leader.
That's the mindset that Iactivate when I get up in the
(16:52):
morning and you have to be ableto pivot and flex, because I
think one of the things that theworker has evolved, the
employee, the middle manager,has evolved.
They have certain expectationsof you, just like you have
expectations of them, and sobeing able to have an open mind
and being able to pivot asneeded is critical.
(17:13):
But again, it goes back to thatcoach and leadership.
I'm not a boss On paper and orgchart.
Yeah, I'm the manager and theyhave that hierarchy, but at the
heart of what I do as a leaderis I'm coaching.
That's something that we don'tturn off, and so when you can
start to shape or shiftperspective of this
transactional boss, I sign thecheck and I tell you what to do,
(17:35):
because that's not what it is,and you get into this genuine,
like relationship and coachingmode.
To me, that's how you'veunlocked your journey on
leadership, and you'd besurprised how people respond to
that Because, again, employeeshave expectations of their
leaders and organizations.
It's not just one sided whereyou know however many years ago
(17:56):
it was?
No, you're going to do itbecause you're tied to this
organization.
No, it's a two way street nowand I think when you're in
coaching it unlocks theleadership levers that you need
to be successful.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
Wow, let's tap into used to be before where you
write.
Leadership has evolved and whenI came up it was you know.
We were taught don't let peopleknow you for real.
Keep your personal and yourprofessional life separate.
Don't let them get too close toyou.
Never let them see you sweat.
That's almost impossible tolive up to today and it's not
even effective to do today.
(18:27):
You know, as a father, myparents would probably never
share some of the stories Ishared with my kids on my
challenges and my failures.
They would have never shared it.
I find it helpful to share itwith my kids.
What do you speak to leadersthat want to keep that separate
and want to look like theyalways got it together?
What advice do you show thoseleaders?
Feel like they always got tohave it together and they got to
be perfect and they can't tellpeople where they made mistakes.
Speaker 3 (18:45):
Where I work now, you know there's an expectation of
what we call being likeprofessionally vulnerable
expectation of what we callbeing like professionally
vulnerable, like people have towant to spend time with you and
want to know a little bit aboutyou.
This is a really bad example.
But National Lampoon'sChristmas vacation and you know
the bosses, and then you know hestiffs them on the bonus.
That's not realistic, right?
(19:06):
You're going to lose the team.
You're going to lose theorganization.
I'm in Philly right, the Eaglesjust won Super Bowl, but it's
like you're managing a lockerroom.
Essentially, right, when youthink about these head coaches
and these big franchises,there's an expectation that not
only are you winning, which isyour performance, but they look
at how do you manage the lockerroom?
(19:27):
Do you have the locker room?
Have you lost it?
And it's the same thing we do asleaders in an organization.
So, going back to your question, people have to get to know you
, but the power you have as aleader is you get to control
what you share and what youdon't.
Now again, am I going to shareall the jokes you and I have
made, ron?
No, because we might be likehey, you know, but you get to
pick and choose snapshots andsoundbites of what you want to
(19:50):
share, and when you give themthose nuggets, you get that back
in return and it builds thatcredibility with the team,
because here's the deal on anyteam or any organization at some
point we're all going to be ina pinch or a jam, whether the
business is in a strugglingplace or the culture is poor,
and so doing those things,sharing some personal stories or
experiences, builds acredibility, but it also, I
(20:13):
think, creates for a diversespace to then elevate the
performance and elevate theculture.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
We're in a challenge right now and people are
concerned about the diversity.
You used the word a couple oftimes and I use it often, very
often, because I believe inhaving people around me that
don't always look like me, and Iwant to be in rooms where
people invite me.
How important is it for us notto get stuck in the stuff that's
happening now and get caught upin damage Some relationships
that are important to you?
Speaker 3 (20:38):
I think everybody has a choice.
To me I would say the choice indiversity or even just how I'm
going to treat or approachpeople.
That is a hill I would die on,and so people need to understand
what are their negotiables andnon-negotiables and what is a
hill worth dying on and what isa hill not worth dying on.
(20:58):
We said we're not going to talkabout politics and I won't.
But how people respond tocertain things says a lot about
them and you have to use yourown discernment on how you're
going to handle certainsituations and if you choose to
engage or move forward withcertain people or organizations.
But you have the power ofchoice when you get up in the
(21:19):
morning I left my lastorganization.
I mean, I had a great 12 yearsthere.
The reason why I wascomfortable leaving was it got
to a point where I don't knowthat the culture aligned with my
values and how I was raised.
It had nothing to do with myprofessional expertise, but it's
like my parents didn't raise melike this and some of the
things that were being asked todo did not align with who I was
(21:40):
as a person and it was time tomove on.
And so we have.
You have.
Each person has a power ofchoice in how you choose to move
forward with your life.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
You said something I always talk about, like
understanding your core values,because organizations are going
to shove theirs down your throat.
They're going to have them onthe wall, they're going to have
these expectations, but you hadto come to a place where there
was a misalignment out of yourcore values in the organization
that you've spent so much timein realizing that this is no
longer effective for me.
How important was it for you torealize that you've got to have
(22:11):
your core values and the hillyou'll die on and the things you
stand for and the things thatjust not going to work,
regardless of how much moneythey're paying you, the titles
and the car you're driving, allthe perks that come along with
it, because it's easy to getcaught up there.
How do you separate and makesure that you don't lose you
because of who you work for?
Speaker 3 (22:27):
Yeah, I think that decision was made because the
proxy I used was I had to lookat the lowest level of the
organization, which was thatfront line, and how they were
being treated.
And it was like, hey, you got todo this on Thanksgiving week
and I was like now it's gone toofar, right?
So for me, because I have a biglike logistics, sales
(22:49):
operations background, like,even though I had a bigger title
, you still have to be in touchwith all levels of the
organization.
And when I saw that the thingsthat we were being tasked to do,
that impacted in a negative waywhere again I felt like two
people, the things we were beingasked to do, you're not letting
these people have dignity atthe end of the day, that was
where I drew the line.
So my proxy was but if I'mworking for an organization, how
(23:11):
was the lowest level of theorganization being treated and
how does that back into thethings we're being asked to do
to funnel that down.
And if that no longer alignswith who I am and how I was
raised, it's game over.
It's time for me to move on.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
I really love that, because you really do have to
step and say time out.
What's happening to the peoplethat are actually making us look
good and are we violating whatI believe in and that's so
important for us to understandas leaders?
You got to make sure you knowwhat you stand for and what you
don't stand for.
Is there anything that youshare that I really haven't
asked?
That you think is valuable foranybody that's listening,
whether it's a woman, anAfrican-American, or whether
(23:46):
it's a corporate person or aperson that's trying to figure
out how to navigate the space?
What would you share that wereally haven't talked about?
That's important for you as anugget to drop.
Speaker 3 (23:54):
I think at the end of the day, you know again if you
have goals personally orprofessionally, the goals and
the vision, but the work neededto get there again.
Are you willing to do whatother people aren't to get there
?
But on the other side I wouldsay, the balance comes.
(24:15):
You know, I'm older than when Istarted out and my perspective
and things that are important tome have changed is balance,
that family piece with work andI hate to use the word, but if
COVID taught us anything, peoplereally did a lot of
reevaluating what was importantto them.
I think that's why theworkplace and the workforce it
has shifted so much.
People are again.
They have expectations oforganizations, just like
(24:36):
organizations have expectationsof their people.
And so I would say, you know,spend some time as you evolve
and you grow and mature in yourlife on what's important to you.
You may have 10 or 12 yearswhere you're running as hard as
you can and then you stop andsay this is no longer what I
want or need to do or what Iwant my life to look like, and
(24:56):
so it's not linear.
It's going to be peaks andvalleys or just different things
you're going to have tonavigate throughout your life.
I call it a life-changing event, and it's not just oh, I'm
getting married or I'm having ababy.
It could be a parent is sick ora loss of a spouse, right To
where you re-evaluate.
But before it gets to thatpoint, always check in with
(25:17):
yourself on where am I at inthis journey and what I want my
life to look like in the future.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
I don't know if that answers it, but I did the best I
could.
You unpacked it well.
It was spot on.
It's your reality and I thinkthat's the part as leaders, I
always say meet people wherethey are.
There's not an expectation,just be authentic.
And I think for us, as leaders,people want us to be authentic.
They want us to talk for real.
You opened up with hey, I readthe Bible, I need you to come in
touch with that.
No sense in shying away fromthat and people don't want to
(25:43):
talk about Like, no, I read theBible, I'm a faith guy.
Let's keep it real.
Can you speak to Courtney howimportant relationships are to
everything that you're trying toaccomplish?
You know you're well-educated,People are going to look out for
you, but I've watched you inrooms and you're phenomenal at
building relationships andrespect and then making sure you
have those connections.
Speaker 3 (26:00):
So I'm going to pick on you for a second here.
You are spot on right To me,like you doing your schooling,
getting your resume together,that's like the cost of entry,
like, hey, I'm getting theinterview, I'm getting the time
Right.
And what we don't want to seeis that you should not be
blowing up Ron Harvey just forsay, hey, I want to have coffee
with you, right, that's notintentional.
It can feel very transactional,right.
(26:21):
And I think the key to buildingan authentic relationship is
you cannot have this like it'stransactional.
Authentic relationship is youcannot have this like it's
transactional.
It's got to be built over timewhere the mentee so if somebody
is approaching you wrong, likethey should be doing the work,
they're the ones setting up time, they're the one reaching out
to you.
You don't mean, you're doingwhat you need to do, right, and
again, knowing your heart,you're more than willing and
(26:44):
happy to share, but don't wasteyour time and it shouldn't just
feel like I'm checking a box,right.
So I think it starts with beingintentional, but it's got to be
non-transactional, I think.
Second, follow-up how manytimes have people reached out to
you and said I'm picking on you, like, hey, I'm going to do
this and that and I'm like Ihaven't heard from them.
Right, don't say something tosomebody that you're trying to
(27:05):
get close to that you can't makegood on.
The third thing is take agenuine interest in them, and
I'm not picking on the youngergeneration, but again, that
transaction is what's in it forme versus how are you bringing
value to the person that you'retrying to cultivate a
relationship with?
Because what you don't want tois you think you want to build a
relationship with somebodybecause they have the status, or
(27:26):
you think they have all thesethings and they're not even a
good person.
It's a two way street.
But I think up front you've gotto do that work to truly be
intentional, to understand, beauthentic, be genuine and be a
giver.
But once you get therelationships right, if you're
ever in a pinch and you needsomething because we all do at
times with calling favors that'swhere that relationship comes
(27:48):
in.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
Yeah, I love it.
I mean you're dropping.
I mean, so you gave an actualyou know, which I love.
When we unpack stuff, peoplegive real steps.
Hey, if you're going to do this,you know you got to be really
careful that it's not just aboutwhat you can get out of it.
And do you really want to beassociated with that person?
I love that you said that Are agood person, or you're just
trying to get this thing thatyou want and you don't care
about their character, you don'tcare about their values, you
don't care about anything thatwon't look good for you to be
(28:11):
aligned.
Is it a good alignment for you?
So you think aboutrelationships?
Please spend time as a leader.
Is this a good alignment?
So will I sit anywhere withCourtney and have a conversation
?
Yes, I don't mind being seen inpublic with her, but there are
some people that I'm oh no, I'mnot getting tied up to that.
Nope, not touching it.
You could do it, but I'm notdoing it and you've got to be
really mindful.
Stay true to who you are.
Last question we're at a placewhere trust is at all time low
(28:35):
across our entire society.
How do we build trust andmaintain it with people that we
kind of want to haverelationships with.
Speaker 3 (28:44):
Ron, that's not a good question, because I don't
trust nobody, no, but Jesus.
Let me stop, let me stop.
Speaker 2 (28:57):
I trust my mom, I trust my mama and I trust Jesus.
You know what I'm saying.
Let me say wait a minute timeout.
It might not be the rightquestion for me, but yeah, so it
is a challenge.
Speaker 3 (29:06):
Yeah, I think for me, trust goes back to what I just
said.
I will have trust and faith inyou if you do what you say
you're going to do.
Behavior is a language.
There's two things right.
Following up do what you sayyou're going to do is number one
.
But number two is, as we'rehuman beings, right and God
gives us intuition, and sosometimes you just got to follow
that.
There are going to beindicators, whether it's through
(29:28):
body language or speech orcomments being made or how, to
your point, you see them on theother side of the room that
you're going to pick up on andsay is there something about
them that I can trust or not?
But again, that's where youhave to use your discernment and
use your intuition as a personto really kind of weed through
what's real and what's not, todetermine if that's a
(29:49):
trustworthy person.
That's as simple as I can makeit.
Oh, yeah, no, you're keeping itreal People.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
If you watch them long enough, they'll show you
who they really are.
You just got to wait a littlebit longer to watch and look at
them when they're not in frontof you and you and I are in a
lot of rooms together and wemove when we navigate and we
care about our community but youwill watch people and who
they're talking to, and ifthey're one person in front of
you and another person someoneif they change based on who's in
front of them, there's going tobe an issue.
They should be the sameregardless of who's standing in
(30:15):
front of them.
So, courtney, thank you so much.
We've been talking about thisand we finally got it on and
I'll get to release it duringthis month and you've made time.
I really appreciate that and Ivalue the relationship as you
walk away.
If people want you on anotherpodcast, because I know you're a
leader that I would love topour into to help whatever
you're trying to do, whateveryour goals are, if someone wants
to bring you on a podcast, isthis something you're interested
in and, if so, how do peoplereach you and what's the best
(30:37):
way to get in contact with youor someone that's listening,
that wants to learn more fromyou and just reach out to you.
Speaker 3 (30:53):
Absolutely.
So I live in Columbia, southCarolina.
I do travel a lot for work, butyou know, ron, I have to thank
you.
So contact my agent, ron HarveyTotally kidding, you know we
also we do things with the UrbanLeague and Chamber of Commerce.
You know I have a LinkedIn pageand I'm on social media so
people can reach out to me.
I'm obviously not going to justdivulge my phone number, but I
do have a couple of emails I canleave with you and people can
reach out.
But again, I can't thank youenough, ron, for all that.
(31:14):
When you're doing in thecommunity, what you're doing
within your organization, buthow you're impacting other
organizations, your organization, literally, is to serve other
organizations and a lot ofpeople can't say that right.
So I just thank you for allthat you've done, all that
you're doing and that you'regoing to do, and I would also
like to reciprocate if there'sanybody on your team or within
(31:36):
your organization that I canpour into, be more than happy to
do that.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
So yes, yes, I mean, and I appreciate that.
So for everyone that'slistening, this is real talk.
We talk open and we hold eachother accountable.
Don't get confused, becausewe're having a good time, but we
hold each other accountable.
If I don't do something,courtney will pick up the phone
and call me to heart me.
Now you said you're going to dothis.
When are you going to do it andwhat can I expect?
But that's what realrelationships are about.
Yeah, give people permission tohold you accountable, have fun
with it.
(32:00):
But she's very lighthearted,but she's about getting business
and so I love that about you.
So continue to do what you'redoing.
If there's something that I canhelp you get access to, I'm
willing to open that up and makesure that you get what you're
getting out of this communityand even in your career.
So, for everyone that'slistening, thank you all.
(32:22):
You can always find me onLinkedIn.
It is the primary source ofcommunication.
I'm a business guy, so I doeverything on LinkedIn around my
business.
If you want to drop something onsocial media, you feel free to,
but if you really want to reachme directly, go to LinkedIn or
go to our company's web page,and that's the fastest, quickest
way to reach me and I'll behappy to respond to that.
If you're interested in thepodcast, you know what we're
talking about.
We're talking about leadershipat the end of the day, so
everything won't be a good fitfor us, but if you think it will
(32:50):
or not, in our audience, loveto talk to you Until next time.
Courtney and I are going tosign off and tell you to have a
phenomenal day and enjoywhatever it is that you're doing
and go make a difference inthat value someone else's life.
Thank you all for joining us.
Speaker 1 (32:57):
We hope you enjoyed this edition of Turning Point
Leadership with your host, RonHarvey.
We're so glad you joined us.
Remember to join us every firstand third Mondays and expect to
receive real answers for realleadership challenges.
Until next time, make adifference where you are and
with what you have.
There are those who arecounting on you for effective
(33:18):
leadership.
Welcome to Turning Point Leadership Podcast with
your host, ron Harvey of GlobalCore Strategies and Consulting.
Ron's delighted you joined usand excited to discuss and help
you navigate your journeytowards becoming an effective
leader.
During this podcast, ron willshare his core belief that
effective leadership is one ofthe key drivers towards change.
So together let's grow asleaders.
(00:25):
Here's Ron Harvey.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Well, good afternoon.
This is Ron Harvey, the VicePresident, chief Operating
Officer for Global CoreStrategies and Consulting
professional leadershipdevelopment firm.
But today is not about ourcompany.
Today is about our guests thatcome on and they talk about the
things that we make look realeasy as leaders.
So I'm always excited to bringguests on to do what we call
Unpack with Ron Harvey.
I don't know what we're goingto talk about, except for one
(00:51):
topic leadership and then we'regoing to go based on our guests.
What is it that's showing upthat I'll ask more questions
about?
We have fun, we talk about allstuff.
We're pretty transparent.
So our guests are pretty bravebecause they don't know any of
the questions as well as I don'teither.
So I always tell them thank youfor coming on without any
notice as far as the pre read orprescripted.
So what we talk about is notscripted.
(01:11):
So I'm a pause.
I'm going to let our guestsintroduce themselves, as I
always do.
They can share as little, asmuch as they want you to know
about them.
There are.
There are no limits as far aswhat they want to share and
there's no requirement of howmuch they share.
So, good friend of mine,courtney, thank you for coming
on the show.
Looking forward to thisconversation.
Thank you for coming, so let melet you introduce yourself.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
Well, good afternoon.
And Ron, I just wanted to saythank you for having me on.
Since we met at LeadershipColumbia where we were at
orientation and you were readingus the RIDAC and putting us on
game, you know we instantlyclicked.
So I just your friendship meansa lot and I just I just want to
say thank you for the workyou're doing in the community.
But, like you said, my name isCourtney Moody.
(01:51):
I have been living in Columbiafor about four years.
I am an original Georgia peach.
Born in Atlanta, georgia wentto high school in Las Vegas.
A proud, proud MichiganWolverine graduate ran track and
cross country in college andthen I've moved around across
the US in my professional career, from St Louis, cleveland, ohio
(02:13):
, louisville, kentucky, andColumbia has been the longest
place I have stayed in my adultlife, so it definitely feels
like it's home.
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Yes, yes, I will tell you.
You know, I got to knowCourtney where she said
leadership, columbia.
She's done a lot in thecommunity.
We met in a room and I love herstyle because as much as I give
people a ride at, she holds herown.
I mean, she'll show up andshe'll have that nice smile.
But she's about business, butshe's also about fun and I'll
tell leaders Courtney, you don'talways have to be especially as
a female leader in this world.
(02:45):
You know you got to be able tohold it, but you also can still
be a woman.
You can also still have thatpart of you.
So let's dive into some of that.
What have you learned?
To navigate and still stay trueto you, but also stay true in
the boardroom too, because thereare people watching and you're
making, you're building somepathways for other women that
look like you.
What did you have to learn?
And navigate and do?
Speaker 3 (03:04):
That's a great question, I think early on in my
career.
So, having the athleticbackground, you, even though
you're a woman, you got that dogin you but you do to your point
.
You got to balance that RightBecause it's very as a black
woman, off the bat you can belabeled as aggressive or, you
know, outspoken, and one of thethings I found that was common
(03:25):
ground, no matter who I wastalking to a white male, white
female, another African-Americancounterpart was sports.
I leveraged that to find thatcommon ground so we get to know
each other and understanding hey, she's not aggressive, she just
wants to win.
Right, and they understand thebackground.
So if I say or do certain things, it didn't come off that way.
(03:47):
But I've managed teams where itwas 10 white males and I was
like you got it, you got to finda way to relate to them, be
relatable.
But I've, I've leveraged mysports background and my passion
for sports and winning as a wayto kind of thread that needle
where I'm still going to beCourtney.
But it's not because needlewhere I'm still going to be
Courtney, but it's not becauseof where I come from, it's the
experiences that I've had whereI've been in competitive
(04:10):
environments.
I've had to scratch and claw toget to where I needed to go, so
that was one of the tacticsthat I've used throughout my
professional career.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
How do you help women balance not being because women
don't always get a great titleif they're too aggressive how do
you help be assertive is thelanguage I'll say versus overly
aggressive, so it doesn't rubpeople the wrong way and
unfortunately we got to havethat conversation, but it's real
.
How do you manage to make surethat you don't stay quiet in the
corner and wait for someoneopens the door and give you the
opportunity that you also got tokind of let them know you want
(04:40):
it and you got to work for it?
Speaker 3 (04:50):
Yeah, I think, going back to the balances, you have
to check yourself and yourintention.
Right, I am a hundred percentwoman's advocate and always will
be right.
But there are, just like on themasculine side, there are
attributes where you have tocheck yourself.
Say, guard your heart.
Are you doing this because youtruly do have an attitude which,
at that point, the feedbackyou're getting is not off base,
or is it a misunderstanding,right?
But before I step into a roomor step into a space where there
(05:11):
may need to be a pushing of theagenda or some assertiveness, I
always check my intentions.
You know, what is it that youwant to convey to the team and
why?
So if I'm going into it alreadywith negative intentions or
this defensiveness about what Ineed to get done, that's going
to show up and unfortunately, toyour point, it translates to
(05:32):
aggressiveness versus hey, look,let's stop, let's unpack this.
I want you all to seek tounderstand and you can do that
and still be assertive, but itstarts with you checking your
heart and your intentions beforeyou go into a space or a
meeting or something like that.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
Wow, okay, courtney, we got to unpack this.
So you're telling these leadersthey got to come in touch with
their heart.
Now people will push back likeI can't have any feelings and I
can't show that side, and blah,blah, blah.
How do you manage that?
Because I'm 100% on board withyou.
Check your heart, and I do leadwith my heart.
I tell people that all the timeI care about people.
Now, I do hold a high standard,but I genuinely care about
people.
How do you do that withoutbeing taken advantage of?
Speaker 3 (06:11):
So I started some work some years ago.
I started reading the Bible andyou would be surprised how it
gives you self-awareness, Right.
So I'll give you an example.
There's a young lady on my teamand she was having some
challenges with somebody and shewas giving her feedback and she
was extremely defensive and shecalled me so I'm going to tell
(06:32):
her this and that I said stop.
Right there I said you cannothave this conversation right now
because you're too round up.
You are reacting to the noteshe sent back, Right.
So there has to be a time and aplace, meaning if you know
you're roundup, stop.
But that requires you to doyour pre-work is understanding
your triggers, understandingwhen you're having a petty
(06:53):
moment and when you're justdoing the job.
But it's that self-work thatreally has nothing to do with
your professional space.
It's your own self-developmentthat is gonna be very valuable
in your personal and yourprofessional life.
I have two younger sisters.
We're stair steps when I tellyou was the petty wars in the
Moody household there?
Nobody's out petty me.
But as you mature and you'relike OK, am I doing this for a
(07:19):
get back or am I really tryingto help this person?
But that was that self-work Ihad to do outside of my
professional career, so I showup better as a leader.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
I love it.
I mean, because you go into aplace is.
Do you have an example whereyou know you dealt with your
sister or professionally, whereyou felt like someone was
actually intentionally doing adig on you or trying to get you
and get you wound up so they canreally make you come out of
character?
If so, how did you overcomethat in the moment?
Because it's easy to do whenthings are calm and no one's
watching, but the light is onand everybody's watching.
(07:49):
How do you do it in that momentwhen someone's actually
embarrassed?
Speaker 3 (07:52):
My sisters every day, whether it's on the group chat.
I fly home to Las Vegas becausethey live in Vegas for a family
to every day.
And it was a work in progress.
It was literally clash of thetitans through the years.
And my mom would say I don'tlike, I don't understand, why
are you fighting?
She was an only child.
I said she's not going to getme, I'm not going to let her
(08:13):
have this.
But as you mature and you startto understand that there are
going to be times I need her todo things and there are going to
be times she needs me and youget to this place of one picking
your battles.
Is this worth it?
Am I going to die on this hill?
But two, there's something inmy sister right now that she's
struggling with that she doesn'tsee in herself.
(08:34):
And when you can take a stepback and see that the need to
want to be petty and get back,you start to say, okay, this is
not the time or the place.
You can have that one because Igot this over here.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
Yeah, let's talk about your professional career.
I mean, as I looked at yourprofile and a team feeds me
information on you, I know youpersonally you know really
appreciate the friendship Forwomen that are in your place
coming out of college and thecareers you have at Pepsi, I
think at least 12 years or more,and you're in a new
organization now and you'vemoved a lot.
What were the things that youhave to be prepared for if
(09:08):
you're going to chase yourcareer or you're going to want
to be solid in this career as afemale, if you're going to chase
your career or you're going towant to be solid in this career
as a female, what are somethings you had to be prepared to
do?
That's not naturally theprogression ladder that people
look at.
You know people come out andwant to have a family, or they
want to have kids or they wantto stay in one location.
What are some things you had tocome to reality with for you to
be successful as a woman?
Speaker 3 (09:31):
So when I left undergrad I needed a job,
couldn't go back home.
My dad was like, turn in yourkey.
And I was like you, just that'sit.
Like that's it.
He's like, yeah, turn in yourkey.
So I was like, well, I got tofigure something out and
fortunately the athleticdepartment had.
I would tell the people comingout of college use your
resources right and use themintentionally.
It's not a handout, but ifyou're a part of certain
organizations, leverage this.
(09:52):
So she knew the HR partner atPepsi and she was like just go
to the interview.
I'm like, all right, so I goand I get the job.
And it was hey, it's a veryearly accelerated management
program.
If you come in, learn thebusiness from the ground up, you
can move fast.
But the caveat was you had to bewilling to move.
And again I'm like I justturned 22,.
(10:14):
But I was in a position beforethere was commitment where I
could and moved to St Louis,missouri, from Ann Arbor,
michigan, and was like I'm justgoing to give it everything I
got.
But through the years Irealized I was getting the phone
calls for the jobs because Iwas willing to do what other
people weren't.
And that's really what it boilsdown to is kind of that cost of
(10:39):
entry Are you willing to dowhat other people are not?
That means the jobs that quitecandidly suck, meaning you're on
call 21st and you're working ina warehouse, you're out on
trucks.
But I was willing to do thatbecause I knew where I wanted to
go.
I did know how all the pieceswould come in line, but I was
like nobody's going to outworkme and I'm going to be willing
to do what people aren't goingto ask.
And so what was happening was Iwas getting the phone calls like
(11:01):
hey, are you ready to go?
And I had this great mentor.
He was like I'm going to behonest with you.
When I call and recruit talentinternally, the person that gets
that role may not have beennumber one on my list because
the first two probably said,well, no, I can't move, it's not
the right time, and they wantto finagle over things they
don't want to do.
So as you work your way downthe list of that top five,
(11:23):
before you know it you'regetting the phone call and your
career is accelerating so muchfaster that way.
I know everybody can't do that,but early on, if you're willing
to take the jobs and go placesthat nobody else will.
You're going to get those phonecalls.
I never asked for these jobs.
I was always called.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
Now again.
Speaker 3 (11:40):
Was I always number one on the list?
Probably not, but I knew whereI wanted to go and I was willing
to give up things to get there,so that's how we got here.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
Yes, yes, thank you for sharing, and let's unpack
something you said in thatconversation though the role of
mentors in your life as aprofessional.
How important have those beenand how do you intentionally or
strategically make sure you havethem?
Speaker 3 (12:01):
They've been invaluable and I've had every
kind of profile of a mentorRight.
I think an area of caution iswe can tend to, especially as
African-Americans.
While we need each other, Ican't just have all
African-American women mentoringme right, because I'm getting
that perspective right.
I've had tons of white malesthat have supported me, tons of
white women that have supportedme, tons of African-American
(12:22):
males and the likes, and I thinkyou need to have diversity with
people you're having mentor youand people that you're
mentoring.
I think the best advice I gotfrom a mentor for having dinner
one night and was talking to himabout my team and I'm like hey,
like this is the struggle, andhe said here's what you have to
(12:43):
understand.
He said there are going to bepeople on the team or in an
organization that it doesn'tmatter what you do.
You give them a million dollarsin a briefcase and guess what?
They're going to be mad becauseyou gave it to them, because
it's all in one dollar bills,yes, and so it's those little
(13:03):
nuggets that they have providedthat have helped.
I think, secondarily, this is abig one the way I've tried to
carry myself throughout mycareer.
Have I always gotten it right?
No, I have made so manymissteps, but there's something
about you, if you're carryingyourself in a certain way, when
you walk in a room, that youmight have people wanting to
mentor you.
I've had people reach out to meand say, hey, I would love to
just stay connected or mentoryou because of the aura or the
(13:25):
way I walked into the room right, and that also goes a long way.
So presentation matters, howyou carry yourself also matters,
and that's it's just paid offfor me, but also paying it
forward and mentoring otherpeople as well.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
Yeah, I love that you hit both.
How you show up in the room.
That makes it where people wantto mentor you.
They'll come because they seepotential within you in the
workplace.
I know you've had your fairshare of crucial conversations
of conflict.
How do you manage to workthrough that while at the same
time leaving both people intact?
Speaker 3 (13:55):
That's a good one.
So I'm going to kind of answerthis in reverse.
So my uncle owns a constructioncompany and one of the things
he tells people because he getsa lot of people reaching out to
him but I think early on when hewas building his company, he
said, when you have to have adifficult conversation or quite
candidly sometimes, let peoplego.
Let them leave with theirdignity intact.
(14:17):
And so I always try to live bythat, that even if it's a
difficult conversation,somebody's not performing,
somebody's made a big mistake,no matter what happens when that
conversation is over, I want toensure they leave with their
dignity and that they arefeeling respected.
Right, these are people who aremoms, they're dads, they're
spouses, they have family, and Iwould never want them to walk
(14:39):
away feeling less than, and so Ialways try to balance that.
And again, you can be stern andnot be a jerk, don't be a jerk.
I'm not a screamer, I don'thave a screaming voice, but my
tone should not be elevated and,quite candidly, if you need to
use the lean in real close,that's going to get their
attention just as much if youwere.
I'm serious, like my ninth gradeEnglish teacher.
(15:02):
He has moved on.
He has got his JD, his PhD, andso he's like hey, I'm in spaces
where I'm having difficultconversations.
He was like a superintendent ofschools and there's tension in
the room and these ladies arelike well, are you here to take
my job?
And he said, of course not, butlean in.
If I wanted it I could take it.
And that's just as impactful assaying you better, not, you
(15:23):
know.
So there are ways around it.
But the guiding principle whenyou're having a difficult
conversation is stick to thefacts, right, fact-based
evidence when you're having thatconversation, and always they
should walk away with theirdignity and respect still intact
when that conversation isconcluded?
Speaker 2 (15:42):
Yes, I agree.
I mean, according to ourfriends and we'd be having those
conversations like look herewe're supposed to be at lunch.
What's wrong with your schedule?
Exactly, yeah, but theimportant part is you do leave
people intact.
But I love that.
You say you know, know youdon't have to be a jerk to hold
people accountable, and mostpeople think they gotta yell,
scream, curse.
You know it's not necessary.
Like you should not lose yourcharacter based on someone
(16:03):
else's behavior, and so I lovethat.
Your uncle, you know, taughtyou that and say you know you
walk away with.
People should still berespected with their dignity.
You know, at the end of thatsomeone's mother, that someone's
no husband or wife, you aunt,they're still loved by someone.
You should treat them in thatspace the right way.
Let's pivot a little bit.
As you think of leadership andpeople are trying to navigate
(16:24):
this.
What's the most important roleyou think leaders play in the
lives of the people that they'reresponsible for?
Speaker 3 (16:29):
I think leadership has evolved.
I remember being a kid.
You know you watch TV.
You watch all types of stuffyou ain't supposed to be
watching and you see this likestereotype of what it wasn't
even a leader, it was a boss,right.
And I love now that you'resaying leadership like I'm not a
boss, I'm a coach, I'm a leader.
That's the mindset that Iactivate when I get up in the
(16:52):
morning and you have to be ableto pivot and flex, because I
think one of the things that theworker has evolved, the
employee, the middle manager,has evolved.
They have certain expectationsof you, just like you have
expectations of them, and sobeing able to have an open mind
and being able to pivot asneeded is critical.
(17:13):
But again, it goes back to thatcoach and leadership.
I'm not a boss On paper and orgchart.
Yeah, I'm the manager and theyhave that hierarchy, but at the
heart of what I do as a leaderis I'm coaching.
That's something that we don'tturn off, and so when you can
start to shape or shiftperspective of this
transactional boss, I sign thecheck and I tell you what to do,
(17:35):
because that's not what it is,and you get into this genuine,
like relationship and coachingmode.
To me, that's how you'veunlocked your journey on
leadership, and you'd besurprised how people respond to
that Because, again, employeeshave expectations of their
leaders and organizations.
It's not just one sided whereyou know however many years ago
(17:56):
it was?
No, you're going to do itbecause you're tied to this
organization.
No, it's a two way street nowand I think when you're in
coaching it unlocks theleadership levers that you need
to be successful.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
Wow, let's tap into used to be before where you
write.
Leadership has evolved and whenI came up it was you know.
We were taught don't let peopleknow you for real.
Keep your personal and yourprofessional life separate.
Don't let them get too close toyou.
Never let them see you sweat.
That's almost impossible tolive up to today and it's not
even effective to do today.
(18:27):
You know, as a father, myparents would probably never
share some of the stories Ishared with my kids on my
challenges and my failures.
They would have never shared it.
I find it helpful to share itwith my kids.
What do you speak to leadersthat want to keep that separate
and want to look like theyalways got it together?
What advice do you show thoseleaders?
Feel like they always got tohave it together and they got to
be perfect and they can't tellpeople where they made mistakes.
Speaker 3 (18:45):
Where I work now, you know there's an expectation of
what we call being likeprofessionally vulnerable
expectation of what we callbeing like professionally
vulnerable, like people have towant to spend time with you and
want to know a little bit aboutyou.
This is a really bad example.
But National Lampoon'sChristmas vacation and you know
the bosses, and then you know hestiffs them on the bonus.
That's not realistic, right?
(19:06):
You're going to lose the team.
You're going to lose theorganization.
I'm in Philly right, the Eaglesjust won Super Bowl, but it's
like you're managing a lockerroom.
Essentially, right, when youthink about these head coaches
and these big franchises,there's an expectation that not
only are you winning, which isyour performance, but they look
at how do you manage the lockerroom?
(19:27):
Do you have the locker room?
Have you lost it?
And it's the same thing we do asleaders in an organization.
So, going back to your question, people have to get to know you
, but the power you have as aleader is you get to control
what you share and what youdon't.
Now again, am I going to shareall the jokes you and I have
made, ron?
No, because we might be likehey, you know, but you get to
pick and choose snapshots andsoundbites of what you want to
(19:50):
share, and when you give themthose nuggets, you get that back
in return and it builds thatcredibility with the team,
because here's the deal on anyteam or any organization at some
point we're all going to be ina pinch or a jam, whether the
business is in a strugglingplace or the culture is poor,
and so doing those things,sharing some personal stories or
experiences, builds acredibility, but it also, I
(20:13):
think, creates for a diversespace to then elevate the
performance and elevate theculture.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
We're in a challenge right now and people are
concerned about the diversity.
You used the word a couple oftimes and I use it often, very
often, because I believe inhaving people around me that
don't always look like me, and Iwant to be in rooms where
people invite me.
How important is it for us notto get stuck in the stuff that's
happening now and get caught upin damage Some relationships
that are important to you?
Speaker 3 (20:38):
I think everybody has a choice.
To me I would say the choice indiversity or even just how I'm
going to treat or approachpeople.
That is a hill I would die on,and so people need to understand
what are their negotiables andnon-negotiables and what is a
hill worth dying on and what isa hill not worth dying on.
(20:58):
We said we're not going to talkabout politics and I won't.
But how people respond tocertain things says a lot about
them and you have to use yourown discernment on how you're
going to handle certainsituations and if you choose to
engage or move forward withcertain people or organizations.
But you have the power ofchoice when you get up in the
(21:19):
morning I left my lastorganization.
I mean, I had a great 12 yearsthere.
The reason why I wascomfortable leaving was it got
to a point where I don't knowthat the culture aligned with my
values and how I was raised.
It had nothing to do with myprofessional expertise, but it's
like my parents didn't raise melike this and some of the
things that were being asked todo did not align with who I was
(21:40):
as a person and it was time tomove on.
And so we have.
You have.
Each person has a power ofchoice in how you choose to move
forward with your life.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
You said something I always talk about, like
understanding your core values,because organizations are going
to shove theirs down your throat.
They're going to have them onthe wall, they're going to have
these expectations, but you hadto come to a place where there
was a misalignment out of yourcore values in the organization
that you've spent so much timein realizing that this is no
longer effective for me.
How important was it for you torealize that you've got to have
(22:11):
your core values and the hillyou'll die on and the things you
stand for and the things thatjust not going to work,
regardless of how much moneythey're paying you, the titles
and the car you're driving, allthe perks that come along with
it, because it's easy to getcaught up there.
How do you separate and makesure that you don't lose you
because of who you work for?
Speaker 3 (22:27):
Yeah, I think that decision was made because the
proxy I used was I had to lookat the lowest level of the
organization, which was thatfront line, and how they were
being treated.
And it was like, hey, you got todo this on Thanksgiving week
and I was like now it's gone toofar, right?
So for me, because I have a biglike logistics, sales
(22:49):
operations background, like,even though I had a bigger title
, you still have to be in touchwith all levels of the
organization.
And when I saw that the thingsthat we were being tasked to do,
that impacted in a negative waywhere again I felt like two
people, the things we were beingasked to do, you're not letting
these people have dignity atthe end of the day, that was
where I drew the line.
So my proxy was but if I'mworking for an organization, how
(23:11):
was the lowest level of theorganization being treated and
how does that back into thethings we're being asked to do
to funnel that down.
And if that no longer alignswith who I am and how I was
raised, it's game over.
It's time for me to move on.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
I really love that, because you really do have to
step and say time out.
What's happening to the peoplethat are actually making us look
good and are we violating whatI believe in and that's so
important for us to understandas leaders?
You got to make sure you knowwhat you stand for and what you
don't stand for.
Is there anything that youshare that I really haven't
asked?
That you think is valuable foranybody that's listening,
whether it's a woman, anAfrican-American, or whether
(23:46):
it's a corporate person or aperson that's trying to figure
out how to navigate the space?
What would you share that wereally haven't talked about?
That's important for you as anugget to drop.
Speaker 3 (23:54):
I think at the end of the day, you know again if you
have goals personally orprofessionally, the goals and
the vision, but the work neededto get there again.
Are you willing to do whatother people aren't to get there
?
But on the other side I wouldsay, the balance comes.
(24:15):
You know, I'm older than when Istarted out and my perspective
and things that are important tome have changed is balance,
that family piece with work andI hate to use the word, but if
COVID taught us anything, peoplereally did a lot of
reevaluating what was importantto them.
I think that's why theworkplace and the workforce it
has shifted so much.
People are again.
They have expectations oforganizations, just like
(24:36):
organizations have expectationsof their people.
And so I would say, you know,spend some time as you evolve
and you grow and mature in yourlife on what's important to you.
You may have 10 or 12 yearswhere you're running as hard as
you can and then you stop andsay this is no longer what I
want or need to do or what Iwant my life to look like, and
(24:56):
so it's not linear.
It's going to be peaks andvalleys or just different things
you're going to have tonavigate throughout your life.
I call it a life-changing event, and it's not just oh, I'm
getting married or I'm having ababy.
It could be a parent is sick ora loss of a spouse, right To
where you re-evaluate.
But before it gets to thatpoint, always check in with
(25:17):
yourself on where am I at inthis journey and what I want my
life to look like in the future.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
I don't know if that answers it, but I did the best I
could.
You unpacked it well.
It was spot on.
It's your reality and I thinkthat's the part as leaders, I
always say meet people wherethey are.
There's not an expectation,just be authentic.
And I think for us, as leaders,people want us to be authentic.
They want us to talk for real.
You opened up with hey, I readthe Bible, I need you to come in
touch with that.
No sense in shying away fromthat and people don't want to
(25:43):
talk about Like, no, I read theBible, I'm a faith guy.
Let's keep it real.
Can you speak to Courtney howimportant relationships are to
everything that you're trying toaccomplish?
You know you're well-educated,People are going to look out for
you, but I've watched you inrooms and you're phenomenal at
building relationships andrespect and then making sure you
have those connections.
Speaker 3 (26:00):
So I'm going to pick on you for a second here.
You are spot on right To me,like you doing your schooling,
getting your resume together,that's like the cost of entry,
like, hey, I'm getting theinterview, I'm getting the time
Right.
And what we don't want to seeis that you should not be
blowing up Ron Harvey just forsay, hey, I want to have coffee
with you, right, that's notintentional.
It can feel very transactional,right.
(26:21):
And I think the key to buildingan authentic relationship is
you cannot have this like it'stransactional.
Authentic relationship is youcannot have this like it's
transactional.
It's got to be built over timewhere the mentee so if somebody
is approaching you wrong, likethey should be doing the work,
they're the ones setting up time, they're the one reaching out
to you.
You don't mean, you're doingwhat you need to do, right, and
again, knowing your heart,you're more than willing and
(26:44):
happy to share, but don't wasteyour time and it shouldn't just
feel like I'm checking a box,right.
So I think it starts with beingintentional, but it's got to be
non-transactional, I think.
Second, follow-up how manytimes have people reached out to
you and said I'm picking on you, like, hey, I'm going to do
this and that and I'm like Ihaven't heard from them.
Right, don't say something tosomebody that you're trying to
(27:05):
get close to that you can't makegood on.
The third thing is take agenuine interest in them, and
I'm not picking on the youngergeneration, but again, that
transaction is what's in it forme versus how are you bringing
value to the person that you'retrying to cultivate a
relationship with?
Because what you don't want tois you think you want to build a
relationship with somebodybecause they have the status, or
(27:26):
you think they have all thesethings and they're not even a
good person.
It's a two way street.
But I think up front you've gotto do that work to truly be
intentional, to understand, beauthentic, be genuine and be a
giver.
But once you get therelationships right, if you're
ever in a pinch and you needsomething because we all do at
times with calling favors that'swhere that relationship comes
(27:48):
in.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
Yeah, I love it.
I mean you're dropping.
I mean, so you gave an actualyou know, which I love.
When we unpack stuff, peoplegive real steps.
Hey, if you're going to do this,you know you got to be really
careful that it's not just aboutwhat you can get out of it.
And do you really want to beassociated with that person?
I love that you said that Are agood person, or you're just
trying to get this thing thatyou want and you don't care
about their character, you don'tcare about their values, you
don't care about anything thatwon't look good for you to be
(28:11):
aligned.
Is it a good alignment for you?
So you think aboutrelationships?
Please spend time as a leader.
Is this a good alignment?
So will I sit anywhere withCourtney and have a conversation
?
Yes, I don't mind being seen inpublic with her, but there are
some people that I'm oh no, I'mnot getting tied up to that.
Nope, not touching it.
You could do it, but I'm notdoing it and you've got to be
really mindful.
Stay true to who you are.
Last question we're at a placewhere trust is at all time low
(28:35):
across our entire society.
How do we build trust andmaintain it with people that we
kind of want to haverelationships with.
Speaker 3 (28:44):
Ron, that's not a good question, because I don't
trust nobody, no, but Jesus.
Let me stop, let me stop.
Speaker 2 (28:57):
I trust my mom, I trust my mama and I trust Jesus.
You know what I'm saying.
Let me say wait a minute timeout.
It might not be the rightquestion for me, but yeah, so it
is a challenge.
Speaker 3 (29:06):
Yeah, I think for me, trust goes back to what I just
said.
I will have trust and faith inyou if you do what you say
you're going to do.
Behavior is a language.
There's two things right.
Following up do what you sayyou're going to do is number one
.
But number two is, as we'rehuman beings, right and God
gives us intuition, and sosometimes you just got to follow
that.
There are going to beindicators, whether it's through
(29:28):
body language or speech orcomments being made or how, to
your point, you see them on theother side of the room that
you're going to pick up on andsay is there something about
them that I can trust or not?
But again, that's where youhave to use your discernment and
use your intuition as a personto really kind of weed through
what's real and what's not, todetermine if that's a
(29:49):
trustworthy person.
That's as simple as I can makeit.
Oh, yeah, no, you're keeping itreal People.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
If you watch them long enough, they'll show you
who they really are.
You just got to wait a littlebit longer to watch and look at
them when they're not in frontof you and you and I are in a
lot of rooms together and wemove when we navigate and we
care about our community but youwill watch people and who
they're talking to, and ifthey're one person in front of
you and another person someoneif they change based on who's in
front of them, there's going tobe an issue.
They should be the sameregardless of who's standing in
(30:15):
front of them.
So, courtney, thank you so much.
We've been talking about thisand we finally got it on and
I'll get to release it duringthis month and you've made time.
I really appreciate that and Ivalue the relationship as you
walk away.
If people want you on anotherpodcast, because I know you're a
leader that I would love topour into to help whatever
you're trying to do, whateveryour goals are, if someone wants
to bring you on a podcast, isthis something you're interested
in and, if so, how do peoplereach you and what's the best
(30:37):
way to get in contact with youor someone that's listening,
that wants to learn more fromyou and just reach out to you.
Speaker 3 (30:53):
Absolutely.
So I live in Columbia, southCarolina.
I do travel a lot for work, butyou know, ron, I have to thank
you.
So contact my agent, ron HarveyTotally kidding, you know we
also we do things with the UrbanLeague and Chamber of Commerce.
You know I have a LinkedIn pageand I'm on social media so
people can reach out to me.
I'm obviously not going to justdivulge my phone number, but I
do have a couple of emails I canleave with you and people can
reach out.
But again, I can't thank youenough, ron, for all that.
(31:14):
When you're doing in thecommunity, what you're doing
within your organization, buthow you're impacting other
organizations, your organization, literally, is to serve other
organizations and a lot ofpeople can't say that right.
So I just thank you for allthat you've done, all that
you're doing and that you'regoing to do, and I would also
like to reciprocate if there'sanybody on your team or within
(31:36):
your organization that I canpour into, be more than happy to
do that.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
So yes, yes, I mean, and I appreciate that.
So for everyone that'slistening, this is real talk.
We talk open and we hold eachother accountable.
Don't get confused, becausewe're having a good time, but we
hold each other accountable.
If I don't do something,courtney will pick up the phone
and call me to heart me.
Now you said you're going to dothis.
When are you going to do it andwhat can I expect?
But that's what realrelationships are about.
Yeah, give people permission tohold you accountable, have fun
with it.
(32:00):
But she's very lighthearted,but she's about getting business
and so I love that about you.
So continue to do what you'redoing.
If there's something that I canhelp you get access to, I'm
willing to open that up and makesure that you get what you're
getting out of this communityand even in your career.
So, for everyone that'slistening, thank you all.
(32:22):
You can always find me onLinkedIn.
It is the primary source ofcommunication.
I'm a business guy, so I doeverything on LinkedIn around my
business.
If you want to drop something onsocial media, you feel free to,
but if you really want to reachme directly, go to LinkedIn or
go to our company's web page,and that's the fastest, quickest
way to reach me and I'll behappy to respond to that.
If you're interested in thepodcast, you know what we're
talking about.
We're talking about leadershipat the end of the day, so
everything won't be a good fitfor us, but if you think it will
(32:50):
or not, in our audience, loveto talk to you Until next time.
Courtney and I are going tosign off and tell you to have a
phenomenal day and enjoywhatever it is that you're doing
and go make a difference inthat value someone else's life.
Thank you all for joining us.
Speaker 1 (32:57):
We hope you enjoyed this edition of Turning Point
Leadership with your host, RonHarvey.
We're so glad you joined us.
Remember to join us every firstand third Mondays and expect to
receive real answers for realleadership challenges.
Until next time, make adifference where you are and
with what you have.
There are those who arecounting on you for effective
(33:18):
leadership.
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