June 25, 2024 • 25 mins
Planning a summer vacation should be joyful, right? But what happens when the simple thought of packing your bags brings on a wave of anxiety and sadness? Join us as we unravel our own emotional journeys through vacation planning. Amy and I candidly share the frustration, excitement, and sometimes overwhelming grief that accompany these family trips. From the struggle to sync schedules for our podcast to the bittersweet moments of joy upon arriving at our destinations, we don’t hold back on the complex feelings that vacations can entail, especially when dealing with loss.
In this heartfelt episode, we discuss practical strategies to manage vacation-related stress and embrace family time, even when it's tough. By opening up about our personal experiences, we emphasize the importance of being present and having open conversations with our children about their expectations and feelings.
"Dream Bird" by Jonny Easton
Thank you for listening to Warrior Moms podcast. It is an honor to share about our beloved children gone too soon, and we hope by telling of our loss, it may help someone in their grief journey. Please note that we are not medical professionals and encourage those listening to seek help from mental health professionals.
We'd love to hear from our followers!
Website: https://www.warriormoms.me/
Facebook: Warrior Moms-The Club No One Wants to Be In
Instagram: WarriorMoms.SurvivingChildLoss
With love,
Warrior Moms Amy & Michele
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Well, hello and welcome back to Warrior Moms.
I am Michelle.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
And I'm Amy, and happy summer.
Yes, it's been a busy onealready.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Oh, my goodness, yeah , and it's been a minute since
we've been on the podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Yes, we're so sorry.
We've been living life.
I know it Just living life,vacation after vacation.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
And just the two of our time schedule hasn't matched
up no, it doesn't match up.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
It's you know.
It's like, yeah, trying to getwomen and mothers in the same
room at the same time, in thesame time.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
So we're gonna be a little bit sporadic with our
podcasts for a bit, yes, andthen, once august and september
hit, we'll be a little, we'll beback.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Back to normal, back in full swing, back to right now
.
Just be with us.
Be patient with us is the wordI'm saying, but we'll be in when
we can.
It just won't be regular.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
And we wanted to talk about, since it is summer about
vacations and just how itaffects us.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Yeah, and just how it affects us.
Yeah, I mean, it is joy andgrief coexisting, always At the
peak of existence, right now.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
Yeah, yeah.
And you know vacations, ofcourse, are so, you know, joyful
and you're excited about it allbut not having someone that
should be there.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
There's somebody always missing, there's
something.
Always there's.
A suitcase always missing,there's yeah, everything's
always missing.
And I know that for me, gettingready for the vacations are
awful.
I hate the days leading up toit.
I don't get excited, I get moreangry than anything.
And is it angry because I thinkso?
(01:50):
Yes, I mean, over the yearsit's definitely.
I've realized it and I'vetriggered it and I don't like
vacations.
And we start planning vacationsbecause we have my side of the
family we do something with, wehave Jeff's side of the family
we do something with, and thenyou know we'll have other trips,
you know just little thingshere and there, for whatever
(02:12):
reason, and every time I'm justmad and I don't like, I don't
like planning them, I don't liketalking about it and I don't
like packing for it and I justdon't like going at all.
So how do you push through that?
Speaker 1 (02:26):
I just do it, I just do it.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
I just focus, and my family knows that well, jeff
does and Layla does.
I don't share it with the restof the family because I don't
want them to think that I don'twant to be there, because I do
want to be there, yeah, and onceyou're there, how is it?
Once I'm there, I'm fine.
Yeah, once I'm there, I'm fine.
Um, there are times that Imight not be, but for the most
(02:52):
part I'm, I'm good and I'menjoying the moments and taking
the time and all that becauseyou know you don't want to miss
those moments with those thatare there.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
Yeah, it does.
I mean, like we constantly say,you have to be intentional
about it because you can getlost in that sadness of who's
not there.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
If I was going to give in to my grief, I wouldn't
go anywhere.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
Yeah, oh, gosh, yeah, and it's so much you know,
especially when you're in thatsadness and that conflict of oh,
it's so much fun and then gosh,I'm so sad.
It's so exhausting physically,you know.
So you come back and I don'tknow about you, but I mean I
could sleep for two, three daysafter a vacation, more so, of
(03:42):
course, than-.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
How are you getting ready for how are you when it
comes to?
Oh, we're, we're gonna go tothe bahamas.
Yeah, what would you do?
Like what?
Where would you be right now ifI said we're going, let's plan
a?
Speaker 1 (03:53):
trip to the bahamas.
Yeah, I get super excited.
I love researching and planningdifferent ideas and stuff, um,
but what I've noticed is likethe day of travel, you know it
starts the day and I've just thelast two trips I've noticed is
pretty high anxiety, and I don'tget that very often Short fused
(04:17):
.
I'm panicked because I, youknow, I need my Carter bracelet
on and I want the necklace withhis ashes on in it.
And you know, this last trip Icouldn't find my bracelet, the
Carter bracelet, and I mean itwas just a full panic and I tore
the house up basically and youknow, jeremy's kind of looking
at me like oh my gosh, she'slost it.
(04:38):
And we were driving to theairport and I was driving and I
took a wrong turn and I got, youknow, goofed up with where we
were supposed to park and I hada full panic attack, you know,
and Jeremy's like I have seenyou.
I mean he didn't say anythingright then, but once we were at
our gate, once we were at ourgate, he's like are you okay now
(05:03):
?
And he's like I've seen youamped up that was something yeah
, and that is something thatI've noticed is definitely new
as part of this grief kind ofjourney and and the coexistence
of you know, because it is.
I think I'm personally excited,but my body must know you're,
(05:24):
you're still really sad, and soit was like, once Jeremy said
that, it was kind of like facingit of yeah, I am sad.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
I'm not hiding it anymore.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
Yeah, I didn't hide it well, yeah, yeah, but then
I'm like you once I get there.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
I'm okay.
Yeah, I'm pretty much okay.
But yeah, well, we we are goingout of the country and we had
to get for a vacation thissummer.
It's my husband's 50th birthdayand so he wanted to do
something big.
So we're going out of thecountry and we had to get our
passports renewed, or Layla'spassport renewed and so, but we
(06:00):
both had to be there and it was,and our son, chase, had to get
his renewed, and Jeff was.
He kept telling me to do, likecall in and make an appointment.
And I'm like we don't have tomake an appointment with this.
And I remember being on thephone with him and yelling at
him at the top of my lungs wedon't need an appointment.
(06:22):
I've told you time and timeagain and I mean, yeah, and we
don't yell Out of control.
Yeah, I was out of control,this was not me.
Like we don't yell, we don'tcuss at each other, like it's
pretty much, he laid down thelaw at the beginning of our
marriage.
Like we don't do that, likewe're not yelling.
We're not.
We might have issues, but we'regoing to talk about it.
(06:43):
Like he has walked.
If I would yell at him, he'sgoing to walk out of the room
and because I was, I was raisedin a yelling family, not mean,
but just, yeah, we raise ourvoice and you listen, you know,
but um, but anyways, like yeah,that was a shock.
So that was a shock and I likehung up on him and I mean I was
(07:03):
so mad.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
Yeah, just enraged.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
Enraged.
Yeah, that's the best thing.
And I sat back and I thoughtabout it and why was I so mad?
Kind of like you were like whatis this?
And going back we had the lasttime we got our passports we had
(07:30):
just gotten alex passport, likealex, we all as a whole family
got our passports done andincluded alex and when the time
that he was the amount of timehe was missing, his passport
came in the mail during thattime.
And then, not only so then wehad another big trip out of the
(07:51):
country planned.
This was five years ago when hewas supposed to go with you and
he was supposed to go with us,and it was literally five weeks
after the funeral that we went.
Oh my gosh.
You know we went on ourvacation but we had to cancel
his plane ticket.
We had to cancel all this stuff, oh my gosh.
(08:12):
And of course we're going in toyou know, he was literally
supposed to be there.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
Wow, so that passport .
I mean that was a major trigger.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
It was so major and I didn't realize there Wow, so
that passport, I mean, that wasa major trigger.
It was so major and I didn'trealize it.
Yeah, and then, but I wasn'tdoing it because I didn't want
to get it.
Yeah, I didn't want to do it,and not that I didn't want to go
, I just it just takes you backto terrible places?
Yes, and that was where youknow.
So then I went and apologizedto Jeff and I shared that with
(08:44):
them and I was just like it,just yeah, well, that's forgive
me, I'm so sorry.
Yes, I'm so sorry.
I yelled at you, but this is,and thank God, he's a good man,
and yeah, and then you couldtalk through it yes.
And then I broke down crying,you know, and it was just, it
was yeah, yeah, a lot.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
Thank God that we communicate well enough mm-hmm
yeah that it didn't just leaveat this height of angry.
And then he matches you.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
Oh yeah, you know we could, we could have done yeah,
that would have been really bad,that would have been really bad
, that would have been reallybad.
Yeah, so, but we have ourpassports and we have, you know,
but, and so it's.
But there again, yeah, you werecoming up and I'm, you know, I
don't, I hope none of my familylistens to it.
It's going with us, but it's.
I mean, no, I'm not lookingforward to it and I say I feel
(09:38):
like I'm selfish and spoiled,and spoiled or whatever you want
to call it I don't know theright word but ungrateful or
whatever.
But no, I don't want to go, butI'm going and I'm going to have
a good time.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
And you know when you get there that you will Like
you do when you get somewhereand you're okay.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
Oh, and I remember the night before that trip too.
I mean, granted, it was so rawand so new, but I was ugly
crying.
We all know those cries.
We got to the airport the nextmorning and my sister-in-law
looked at me and she said areyou okay?
And I said no, there's no partof this, no.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
Are you an idiot?
Speaker 2 (10:28):
and of course she knew the answer, she knew it,
but she, just you know it didn'tbless her heart.
She, she didn't know what tosay, but she did want me to say,
yes, but I couldn't.
Yeah, and she knew it, shewasn't.
None of us were okay at thatmoment, no, but nor could you,
nor could we be.
But we went, we made the besttime of it, and and, and that's.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
I mean I'm gonna do that this time too.
Yeah, you know, it's just well,and I, um, you know, on this
last trip that we took, I I'm,consciously and unconsciously
but looking for signs of Carter.
You know these littleserendipitous connections or you
know, maybe they are, you know,god winks, but yeah, we're.
I mean, like we kept passingthis sign on the interstate when
(11:18):
we were driving up to the lakeof this, like manufactured homes
, and it was called Carter, justCarter, that's the name of
their business.
It was on all these billboardsand then we saw a Carter's
trucking company and then, ofcourse, all of our hawks, we saw
tons.
(11:38):
But I mean just, yeah, so thatit's kind of comforting.
You know, you're like, okay, oh, it is.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
He's with me.
We go every year to the beach,to Amelia Island, and they have
a skate park, oh yes, and wealways make a point to go and
sit at the skate park I can'tsay the word skate park and just
watch the skaters, because Alecwould have been there every
night.
Yeah, you know, and that's justwhere.
But it, it, it brings mecomfort To go and watch, to go
(12:08):
and watch.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
Was that something you could have done those first
couple of years?
Speaker 2 (12:13):
I did it the first.
So Alec passed away in 2019 and2020 was the first time that we
went with my family, my mom anddad and all the cousins and my
sister and everybody and we wentthere and, yeah, it was right
there, and everybody drove in,like my parents drove in and my
sister and her family drove in,and then we were there, but they
were like it was right outsideour condo, oh my gosh.
(12:36):
And we were like, oh my gosh,we didn't know how unusual.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
I've been to a lot of beaches and I've never once
seen this cake park and the factthat it was right there.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
I know we were like Alec would have loved this, like
they were all like.
I wonder what Amy's going to do.
I wonder how Amy's going to.
You know to me.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
Yeah, cause it just seemed so out of the ordinary.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
Yes, yeah, and I was like which it is?
It is Alec would have lovedthis and so we would.
I mean, I would go down there alot of nights and Jeff would go
with me and the kids wouldsometimes go with us and stuff,
but I would walk down thereevery night and then we went for
several other years afterwardsand now we're not in that same
condo because all the kids arebigger and we've got a different
place, but anyway.
(13:21):
But yeah, it's comforting to meto go to skate parks and watch.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
Yeah, I mean this is kind of a silly question because
we don't know you and I don'tknow the answer, obviously
talking about this.
But what advice should we giveourselves?
You know, like when we'rethinking about caring for these
vacations and you're angry anddon't want to go and I get such
(13:57):
high anxiety.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
Um, what want to give you?
The advice of just deep breathsand maybe a few days ahead at
home.
Look for the Carter bracelet.
Look you know, make sure youknow where all those things are
just to know.
I mean, I know that you alwaysknow where they are, but you
don't know where they are.
So I'm like, right, so I tookit off to wash my hands or
(14:21):
whatever, but just maybe keepthose closer.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
Yeah, be a little more intentional about setting
that out.
Yeah, and what do you?
Speaker 2 (14:30):
think the anxiety is for Like, why, like I think
pinpoint or not.
Really, we can't alwayspinpoint, but I mean, I'm you
know me, I'm real big on.
I need to internalize this, Ineed to figure out why.
Why did I freak out about apassport?
Yeah, and Jeff telling me Ineed to call and make an
appointment and I was like, no,I've already called, we don't
need to make an appointment.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
You know like, well, and for me what I have kind of
unpacked and you know, you and Ihave talked about this before,
but just there's such a sadnessfor me with vacations, in
particular for greta not havinga sibling.
Yeah, so it's.
You know, here's what.
They're two old parents, andyou know and.
And then there's greta, yeah,and we're not gonna wake board
(15:13):
with her, we'll drive the bus,but yeah and it just there's.
Just I think it's not, I think Iknow there's.
I feel such sadness about itand I, I and I don't have the
answer for myself.
I feel like when we traveledlast summer, it was a big trip.
You know, we brought well onmost trips.
(15:35):
Since we've lost Carter, gretahas brought a friend on all of
our little vacations, but shedidn't on this one, did she?
No, you think that hadsomething to do with it.
I think that was part of theanxiety was like, how's this
going to play out?
And you know, there's a lot ofcousins in Michigan, but they're
all teenagers and they all havejobs, and that is exactly what
happened.
She only got to see one of thesix, you know, um, and it was
(15:58):
only one day, and so that was,you know, um, and she did fine,
but it just wasn't the trip thatI was hoping and she was hoping
, and I think that is exactlywhat the anxiety is, um just the
not knowing cause you hadn'tdone it like that before.
Yeah, and just how would howwould she do, and you know um
(16:21):
and it ended up being fine, forsure, you know.
But there is, there is asadness, for sure that I need to
work through, for sure yeah,and it's, I mean, I think, a lot
of us going into differentsituations.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
We all I'm not gonna say we all, but I know that I'll
get anxiety about stuff too.
Like just the unknown.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
Because it's out of our comfort zone and we've
gotten.
So.
I don't want to say comfortableand confident, but it's hard to
brand, it's hard to dosomething new sometimes.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
Yeah, when you are in that stage where you're like I
don't want to go, Does it helpto look at some of the things
you're doing that on that tripto go?
Oh gosh, this will be reallyfun to experience this with Jeff
and Layla.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
It does help knowing that I I look at it more of like
I kind of said earlier of it Iam getting to spend time with
family and they're not going tobe here forever, right, and we
might not have anotheropportunity to take these great
trips Right Together, or even,you know, financially or
(17:28):
whatever, yeah, and so I reallydo believe, deep down and on the
surface, that we need to takeadvantage of all the moments
that we can, whether we want tobe there or not.
Even if we just exist in themoment and we don't take
advantage of it, I think I, I, Itell myself, even if you just
(17:48):
exist, you're there, yeah, youmight not can do all the things
mentally or physically orwhatever, but you just, you just
need to be present.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
Well, and that makes me think about, like, just even
talking through it with Greta,like probably she doesn't have
all the same anxiety that I do,of course, and so you know, and
giving her the option, you knowof what would you want to invite
a friend, and you know what areyou looking forward to?
And you know, do you hope thatI go on the tube with you, which
(18:20):
of course I'd be glad to.
But just what is she picturing?
If anything, like, what are herexpectations?
Speaker 2 (18:26):
And most likely it's very it has nothing to do with
what you have worried about.
That probably would be helpfultoo, of just talking through and
then also telling Jeremy howanxious I am yes, recognizing
that before you're in the frenzyyou know well, and I think that
, especially like with aunts anduncles, or like siblings or
(18:49):
in-laws or whatever like that inmy situation, they think that
Alec passed away five years ago,you know, and they loved him,
just like you know they would aniece or a nephew or a cousin or
whatever.
But, and I know for some theyremember him being there because
we went on family vacationsevery year.
(19:10):
You know, we've always gone onfamily vacations, we've always
been together on those vacations, but for me it's every day.
Yeah, it hasn't been five yearsago, and I just feel like a lot
of times people expect me maybenot expect me to be happy and
you know, know, doing what Inever frolicked in the waves of
(19:32):
the beach, don't get me wrong onthat, never.
But um, but I think they justwant me to be good always always
.
Yeah, that there isn't thesadness behind your eyes, yeah,
and they're like well, it's beenfive years, she's good, you
know, and so, but no, is sadness, and I don't think that, like I
said, it's just.
I think we all feel that waysometimes, like they don't
(19:53):
realize every moment of everyday he's missing.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
Yeah, it's just.
Yeah, you're kind of shoving itback down, and some days are
harder than others to do that,and some days it rears its ugly
head and you yell at somebodyand I see it even when I bring
up you know something withfamily, about Carter you know,
um, or coworkers or whatever,and there's this little sort of
(20:18):
flutter that they do, you know,like oh gosh, what is she going
to say about that?
You know, and they're, and youknow, and I'm sure some of it's
internalized of me, just my ownworries about talking about it.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
Oh, no, people's eyes , they don't blink.
Yeah, it's like, oh, yeah,we're going there.
Yeah, oh, okay, yeah, and theyhave this smile and they don't
blink.
Yeah, exactly, yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
I guess Exactly, yeah , and I think that's part of
that anxiety too, Cause I I knowI will be talking about Carter,
you know, and there arememories that I will share.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
And then, well, but with my family and Jeff's family
and stuff like that, we do talkfreely.
It's not a like, it'll be likeSean was like oh and.
Alec would never do this orAlec, always did this you know,
like we were just talking aboutgoing to.
He didn't ride roller coasters,like, yeah, we go to Six Flags
and Bailey and Chase were nevertall enough and Alec wouldn't
ride them, so I had to be onthose little kiddie rides.
(21:19):
You know, here I was the supertall, you know.
Yeah, little guy on the kiddieride at Six Flags, so yeah, but
um, yeah, the joy yes the joyand sorrow of basically summer
and vacations and just anothertime that they're not with us.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
I know Jeremy and I were talking the other night and
I mean we're coming up on eightyears, which I just cannot even
believe, and I said I meanmaximum it's been three years,
maximum, I mean most days werejust coming up on two years.
That's what it feels like.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
Oh yeah.
Well, we just hit five, and Maywas five years, and I would say
three, maybe two or three.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
It's just, it's just so wild yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
Yeah, and I still sometimes I'm at the point of oh
, I told you I read Spare, oh,yes, prince Harry, yes, oh yes,
prince Harry, yes, harry's book.
And he kept saying about hismom, about how he just kind of
(22:39):
realized or thought that she wasjust going to show up one day
Like she wasn't really dead, shewas faking her death because he
never saw the evidence, oranything Gosh.
And I'm the same way, yeah, andI kept.
I went oh, oh my gosh, Iidentify with that so much.
Yeah, because I continue tobelieve, because I never saw the
evidence.
Yeah, I never saw it.
(22:59):
He's just he'll be back, yeah,you know.
So I still.
Then I'm getting better aboutbelieving that he's not coming
back, but you know, but Iidentified with that so much.
Isn't that something?
Speaker 1 (23:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
So like I'm like, oh, I'll take the skate park, yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
But he's not.
Yeah, oh my gosh.
Well, in our next like one ofour quick little vacations this
summer is going to one ofCarter's friends' wedding.
Oh gosh, and I mean it'll bethe first one that we've gone to
.
Good luck, yeah.
And I mean I already haveanxiety about and I mean there's
(23:38):
no doubt I want to be there.
Yes, Um cause I think I had toldyou that there was another
friend of Carter's and we didn'tgo and I just felt, you know,
bad, oh terrible, and and um,they even a yellow butterfly had
landed on her bouquet and thiskid, Dylan, had sent it to us,
(23:59):
you know, and it was like Carterwas here and I was like, oh my
gosh, and we're not, you know so, but it's, it's to be really
tough for sure.
Yeah, but then joy, right,Because I'm so happy for Nate.
Well, yeah, and it's not thatyou're not happy for them.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
Yeah, yeah, it's amazing how much we power
through.
Yeah, warrior moms, we'rewarriors.
We just slice right over, justtake our sword.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
Well, this was good to catch up, I know the two of
us haven't physically seen eachother for a little while.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
No, we just, like you said, go in just different ways
, different times, and I loveconnecting with you and talking
to you through this, because youknow what I'm going through.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
Yeah, absolutely, and no matter what type of grief,
all of us carry it and any humancan understand the sadness,
right, because grief is in everyone of our lives.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
Grief is grief.
You might not have lost a child, but there's so many different
levels of grief.
Speaker 1 (25:09):
Yeah, and I think that's you know.
We just need to give ourself alittle more grace on that.
You know, grace, face it, knowit.
Yes, talk about it, which iswhat you and I do really well,
yes, which is what I think helpsFor sure.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
Well, until next time .
Until next time.
I don't know when it'll be, butit will be.
It'll be soon.
Yes, till next time.
Thanks, guys, bye it's still.
Well, hello and welcome back to Warrior Moms.
I am Michelle.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
And I'm Amy, and happy summer.
Yes, it's been a busy onealready.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Oh, my goodness, yeah , and it's been a minute since
we've been on the podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Yes, we're so sorry.
We've been living life.
I know it Just living life,vacation after vacation.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
And just the two of our time schedule hasn't matched
up no, it doesn't match up.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
It's you know.
It's like, yeah, trying to getwomen and mothers in the same
room at the same time, in thesame time.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
So we're gonna be a little bit sporadic with our
podcasts for a bit, yes, andthen, once august and september
hit, we'll be a little, we'll beback.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Back to normal, back in full swing, back to right now
.
Just be with us.
Be patient with us is the wordI'm saying, but we'll be in when
we can.
It just won't be regular.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
And we wanted to talk about, since it is summer about
vacations and just how itaffects us.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Yeah, and just how it affects us.
Yeah, I mean, it is joy andgrief coexisting, always At the
peak of existence, right now.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
Yeah, yeah.
And you know vacations, ofcourse, are so, you know, joyful
and you're excited about it allbut not having someone that
should be there.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
There's somebody always missing, there's
something.
Always there's.
A suitcase always missing,there's yeah, everything's
always missing.
And I know that for me, gettingready for the vacations are
awful.
I hate the days leading up toit.
I don't get excited, I get moreangry than anything.
And is it angry because I thinkso?
(01:50):
Yes, I mean, over the yearsit's definitely.
I've realized it and I'vetriggered it and I don't like
vacations.
And we start planning vacationsbecause we have my side of the
family we do something with, wehave Jeff's side of the family
we do something with, and thenyou know we'll have other trips,
you know just little thingshere and there, for whatever
(02:12):
reason, and every time I'm justmad and I don't like, I don't
like planning them, I don't liketalking about it and I don't
like packing for it and I justdon't like going at all.
So how do you push through that?
Speaker 1 (02:26):
I just do it, I just do it.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
I just focus, and my family knows that well, jeff
does and Layla does.
I don't share it with the restof the family because I don't
want them to think that I don'twant to be there, because I do
want to be there, yeah, and onceyou're there, how is it?
Once I'm there, I'm fine.
Yeah, once I'm there, I'm fine.
Um, there are times that Imight not be, but for the most
(02:52):
part I'm, I'm good and I'menjoying the moments and taking
the time and all that becauseyou know you don't want to miss
those moments with those thatare there.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
Yeah, it does.
I mean, like we constantly say,you have to be intentional
about it because you can getlost in that sadness of who's
not there.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
If I was going to give in to my grief, I wouldn't
go anywhere.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
Yeah, oh, gosh, yeah, and it's so much you know,
especially when you're in thatsadness and that conflict of oh,
it's so much fun and then gosh,I'm so sad.
It's so exhausting physically,you know.
So you come back and I don'tknow about you, but I mean I
could sleep for two, three daysafter a vacation, more so, of
(03:42):
course, than-.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
How are you getting ready for how are you when it
comes to?
Oh, we're, we're gonna go tothe bahamas.
Yeah, what would you do?
Like what?
Where would you be right now ifI said we're going, let's plan
a?
Speaker 1 (03:53):
trip to the bahamas.
Yeah, I get super excited.
I love researching and planningdifferent ideas and stuff, um,
but what I've noticed is likethe day of travel, you know it
starts the day and I've just thelast two trips I've noticed is
pretty high anxiety, and I don'tget that very often Short fused
(04:17):
.
I'm panicked because I, youknow, I need my Carter bracelet
on and I want the necklace withhis ashes on in it.
And you know, this last trip Icouldn't find my bracelet, the
Carter bracelet, and I mean itwas just a full panic and I tore
the house up basically and youknow, jeremy's kind of looking
at me like oh my gosh, she'slost it.
(04:38):
And we were driving to theairport and I was driving and I
took a wrong turn and I got, youknow, goofed up with where we
were supposed to park and I hada full panic attack, you know,
and Jeremy's like I have seenyou.
I mean he didn't say anythingright then, but once we were at
our gate, once we were at ourgate, he's like are you okay now
(05:03):
?
And he's like I've seen youamped up that was something yeah
, and that is something thatI've noticed is definitely new
as part of this grief kind ofjourney and and the coexistence
of you know, because it is.
I think I'm personally excited,but my body must know you're,
(05:24):
you're still really sad, and soit was like, once Jeremy said
that, it was kind of like facingit of yeah, I am sad.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
I'm not hiding it anymore.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
Yeah, I didn't hide it well, yeah, yeah, but then
I'm like you once I get there.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
I'm okay.
Yeah, I'm pretty much okay.
But yeah, well, we we are goingout of the country and we had
to get for a vacation thissummer.
It's my husband's 50th birthdayand so he wanted to do
something big.
So we're going out of thecountry and we had to get our
passports renewed, or Layla'spassport renewed and so, but we
(06:00):
both had to be there and it was,and our son, chase, had to get
his renewed, and Jeff was.
He kept telling me to do, likecall in and make an appointment.
And I'm like we don't have tomake an appointment with this.
And I remember being on thephone with him and yelling at
him at the top of my lungs wedon't need an appointment.
(06:22):
I've told you time and timeagain and I mean, yeah, and we
don't yell Out of control.
Yeah, I was out of control,this was not me.
Like we don't yell, we don'tcuss at each other, like it's
pretty much, he laid down thelaw at the beginning of our
marriage.
Like we don't do that, likewe're not yelling.
We're not.
We might have issues, but we'regoing to talk about it.
(06:43):
Like he has walked.
If I would yell at him, he'sgoing to walk out of the room
and because I was, I was raisedin a yelling family, not mean,
but just, yeah, we raise ourvoice and you listen, you know,
but um, but anyways, like yeah,that was a shock.
So that was a shock and I likehung up on him and I mean I was
(07:03):
so mad.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
Yeah, just enraged.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
Enraged.
Yeah, that's the best thing.
And I sat back and I thoughtabout it and why was I so mad?
Kind of like you were like whatis this?
And going back we had the lasttime we got our passports we had
(07:30):
just gotten alex passport, likealex, we all as a whole family
got our passports done andincluded alex and when the time
that he was the amount of timehe was missing, his passport
came in the mail during thattime.
And then, not only so then wehad another big trip out of the
(07:51):
country planned.
This was five years ago when hewas supposed to go with you and
he was supposed to go with us,and it was literally five weeks
after the funeral that we went.
Oh my gosh.
You know we went on ourvacation but we had to cancel
his plane ticket.
We had to cancel all this stuff, oh my gosh.
(08:12):
And of course we're going in toyou know, he was literally
supposed to be there.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
Wow, so that passport .
I mean that was a major trigger.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
It was so major and I didn't realize there Wow, so
that passport, I mean, that wasa major trigger.
It was so major and I didn'trealize it.
Yeah, and then, but I wasn'tdoing it because I didn't want
to get it.
Yeah, I didn't want to do it,and not that I didn't want to go
, I just it just takes you backto terrible places?
Yes, and that was where youknow.
So then I went and apologizedto Jeff and I shared that with
(08:44):
them and I was just like it,just yeah, well, that's forgive
me, I'm so sorry.
Yes, I'm so sorry.
I yelled at you, but this is,and thank God, he's a good man,
and yeah, and then you couldtalk through it yes.
And then I broke down crying,you know, and it was just, it
was yeah, yeah, a lot.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
Thank God that we communicate well enough mm-hmm
yeah that it didn't just leaveat this height of angry.
And then he matches you.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
Oh yeah, you know we could, we could have done yeah,
that would have been really bad,that would have been really bad
, that would have been reallybad.
Yeah, so, but we have ourpassports and we have, you know,
but, and so it's.
But there again, yeah, you werecoming up and I'm, you know, I
don't, I hope none of my familylistens to it.
It's going with us, but it's.
I mean, no, I'm not lookingforward to it and I say I feel
(09:38):
like I'm selfish and spoiled,and spoiled or whatever you want
to call it I don't know theright word but ungrateful or
whatever.
But no, I don't want to go, butI'm going and I'm going to have
a good time.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
And you know when you get there that you will Like
you do when you get somewhereand you're okay.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
Oh, and I remember the night before that trip too.
I mean, granted, it was so rawand so new, but I was ugly
crying.
We all know those cries.
We got to the airport the nextmorning and my sister-in-law
looked at me and she said areyou okay?
And I said no, there's no partof this, no.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
Are you an idiot?
Speaker 2 (10:28):
and of course she knew the answer, she knew it,
but she, just you know it didn'tbless her heart.
She, she didn't know what tosay, but she did want me to say,
yes, but I couldn't.
Yeah, and she knew it, shewasn't.
None of us were okay at thatmoment, no, but nor could you,
nor could we be.
But we went, we made the besttime of it, and and, and that's.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
I mean I'm gonna do that this time too.
Yeah, you know, it's just well,and I, um, you know, on this
last trip that we took, I I'm,consciously and unconsciously
but looking for signs of Carter.
You know these littleserendipitous connections or you
know, maybe they are, you know,god winks, but yeah, we're.
I mean, like we kept passingthis sign on the interstate when
(11:18):
we were driving up to the lakeof this, like manufactured homes
, and it was called Carter, justCarter, that's the name of
their business.
It was on all these billboardsand then we saw a Carter's
trucking company and then, ofcourse, all of our hawks, we saw
tons.
(11:38):
But I mean just, yeah, so thatit's kind of comforting.
You know, you're like, okay, oh, it is.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
He's with me.
We go every year to the beach,to Amelia Island, and they have
a skate park, oh yes, and wealways make a point to go and
sit at the skate park I can'tsay the word skate park and just
watch the skaters, because Alecwould have been there every
night.
Yeah, you know, and that's justwhere.
But it, it, it brings mecomfort To go and watch, to go
(12:08):
and watch.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
Was that something you could have done those first
couple of years?
Speaker 2 (12:13):
I did it the first.
So Alec passed away in 2019 and2020 was the first time that we
went with my family, my mom anddad and all the cousins and my
sister and everybody and we wentthere and, yeah, it was right
there, and everybody drove in,like my parents drove in and my
sister and her family drove in,and then we were there, but they
were like it was right outsideour condo, oh my gosh.
(12:36):
And we were like, oh my gosh,we didn't know how unusual.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
I've been to a lot of beaches and I've never once
seen this cake park and the factthat it was right there.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
I know we were like Alec would have loved this, like
they were all like.
I wonder what Amy's going to do.
I wonder how Amy's going to.
You know to me.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
Yeah, cause it just seemed so out of the ordinary.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
Yes, yeah, and I was like which it is?
It is Alec would have lovedthis and so we would.
I mean, I would go down there alot of nights and Jeff would go
with me and the kids wouldsometimes go with us and stuff,
but I would walk down thereevery night and then we went for
several other years afterwardsand now we're not in that same
condo because all the kids arebigger and we've got a different
place, but anyway.
(13:21):
But yeah, it's comforting to meto go to skate parks and watch.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
Yeah, I mean this is kind of a silly question because
we don't know you and I don'tknow the answer, obviously
talking about this.
But what advice should we giveourselves?
You know, like when we'rethinking about caring for these
vacations and you're angry anddon't want to go and I get such
(13:57):
high anxiety.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
Um, what want to give you?
The advice of just deep breathsand maybe a few days ahead at
home.
Look for the Carter bracelet.
Look you know, make sure youknow where all those things are
just to know.
I mean, I know that you alwaysknow where they are, but you
don't know where they are.
So I'm like, right, so I tookit off to wash my hands or
(14:21):
whatever, but just maybe keepthose closer.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
Yeah, be a little more intentional about setting
that out.
Yeah, and what do you?
Speaker 2 (14:30):
think the anxiety is for Like, why, like I think
pinpoint or not.
Really, we can't alwayspinpoint, but I mean, I'm you
know me, I'm real big on.
I need to internalize this, Ineed to figure out why.
Why did I freak out about apassport?
Yeah, and Jeff telling me Ineed to call and make an
appointment and I was like, no,I've already called, we don't
need to make an appointment.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
You know like, well, and for me what I have kind of
unpacked and you know, you and Ihave talked about this before,
but just there's such a sadnessfor me with vacations, in
particular for greta not havinga sibling.
Yeah, so it's.
You know, here's what.
They're two old parents, andyou know and.
And then there's greta, yeah,and we're not gonna wake board
(15:13):
with her, we'll drive the bus,but yeah and it just there's.
Just I think it's not, I think Iknow there's.
I feel such sadness about itand I, I and I don't have the
answer for myself.
I feel like when we traveledlast summer, it was a big trip.
You know, we brought well onmost trips.
(15:35):
Since we've lost Carter, gretahas brought a friend on all of
our little vacations, but shedidn't on this one, did she?
No, you think that hadsomething to do with it.
I think that was part of theanxiety was like, how's this
going to play out?
And you know, there's a lot ofcousins in Michigan, but they're
all teenagers and they all havejobs, and that is exactly what
happened.
She only got to see one of thesix, you know, um, and it was
(15:58):
only one day, and so that was,you know, um, and she did fine,
but it just wasn't the trip thatI was hoping and she was hoping
, and I think that is exactlywhat the anxiety is, um just the
not knowing cause you hadn'tdone it like that before.
Yeah, and just how would howwould she do, and you know um
(16:21):
and it ended up being fine, forsure, you know.
But there is, there is asadness, for sure that I need to
work through, for sure yeah,and it's, I mean, I think, a lot
of us going into differentsituations.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
We all I'm not gonna say we all, but I know that I'll
get anxiety about stuff too.
Like just the unknown.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
Because it's out of our comfort zone and we've
gotten.
So.
I don't want to say comfortableand confident, but it's hard to
brand, it's hard to dosomething new sometimes.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
Yeah, when you are in that stage where you're like I
don't want to go, Does it helpto look at some of the things
you're doing that on that tripto go?
Oh gosh, this will be reallyfun to experience this with Jeff
and Layla.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
It does help knowing that I I look at it more of like
I kind of said earlier of it Iam getting to spend time with
family and they're not going tobe here forever, right, and we
might not have anotheropportunity to take these great
trips Right Together, or even,you know, financially or
(17:28):
whatever, yeah, and so I reallydo believe, deep down and on the
surface, that we need to takeadvantage of all the moments
that we can, whether we want tobe there or not.
Even if we just exist in themoment and we don't take
advantage of it, I think I, I, Itell myself, even if you just
(17:48):
exist, you're there, yeah, youmight not can do all the things
mentally or physically orwhatever, but you just, you just
need to be present.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
Well, and that makes me think about, like, just even
talking through it with Greta,like probably she doesn't have
all the same anxiety that I do,of course, and so you know, and
giving her the option, you knowof what would you want to invite
a friend, and you know what areyou looking forward to?
And you know, do you hope thatI go on the tube with you, which
(18:20):
of course I'd be glad to.
But just what is she picturing?
If anything, like, what are herexpectations?
Speaker 2 (18:26):
And most likely it's very it has nothing to do with
what you have worried about.
That probably would be helpfultoo, of just talking through and
then also telling Jeremy howanxious I am yes, recognizing
that before you're in the frenzyyou know well, and I think that
, especially like with aunts anduncles, or like siblings or
(18:49):
in-laws or whatever like that inmy situation, they think that
Alec passed away five years ago,you know, and they loved him,
just like you know they would aniece or a nephew or a cousin or
whatever.
But, and I know for some theyremember him being there because
we went on family vacationsevery year.
(19:10):
You know, we've always gone onfamily vacations, we've always
been together on those vacations, but for me it's every day.
Yeah, it hasn't been five yearsago, and I just feel like a lot
of times people expect me maybenot expect me to be happy and
you know, know, doing what Inever frolicked in the waves of
(19:32):
the beach, don't get me wrong onthat, never.
But um, but I think they justwant me to be good always always
.
Yeah, that there isn't thesadness behind your eyes, yeah,
and they're like well, it's beenfive years, she's good, you
know, and so, but no, is sadness, and I don't think that, like I
said, it's just.
I think we all feel that waysometimes, like they don't
(19:53):
realize every moment of everyday he's missing.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
Yeah, it's just.
Yeah, you're kind of shoving itback down, and some days are
harder than others to do that,and some days it rears its ugly
head and you yell at somebodyand I see it even when I bring
up you know something withfamily, about Carter you know,
um, or coworkers or whatever,and there's this little sort of
(20:18):
flutter that they do, you know,like oh gosh, what is she going
to say about that?
You know, and they're, and youknow, and I'm sure some of it's
internalized of me, just my ownworries about talking about it.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
Oh, no, people's eyes , they don't blink.
Yeah, it's like, oh, yeah,we're going there.
Yeah, oh, okay, yeah, and theyhave this smile and they don't
blink.
Yeah, exactly, yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
I guess Exactly, yeah , and I think that's part of
that anxiety too, Cause I I knowI will be talking about Carter,
you know, and there arememories that I will share.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
And then, well, but with my family and Jeff's family
and stuff like that, we do talkfreely.
It's not a like, it'll be likeSean was like oh and.
Alec would never do this orAlec, always did this you know,
like we were just talking aboutgoing to.
He didn't ride roller coasters,like, yeah, we go to Six Flags
and Bailey and Chase were nevertall enough and Alec wouldn't
ride them, so I had to be onthose little kiddie rides.
(21:19):
You know, here I was the supertall, you know.
Yeah, little guy on the kiddieride at Six Flags, so yeah, but
um, yeah, the joy yes the joyand sorrow of basically summer
and vacations and just anothertime that they're not with us.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
I know Jeremy and I were talking the other night and
I mean we're coming up on eightyears, which I just cannot even
believe, and I said I meanmaximum it's been three years,
maximum, I mean most days werejust coming up on two years.
That's what it feels like.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
Oh yeah.
Well, we just hit five, and Maywas five years, and I would say
three, maybe two or three.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
It's just, it's just so wild yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
Yeah, and I still sometimes I'm at the point of oh
, I told you I read Spare, oh,yes, prince Harry, yes, oh yes,
prince Harry, yes, harry's book.
And he kept saying about hismom, about how he just kind of
(22:39):
realized or thought that she wasjust going to show up one day
Like she wasn't really dead, shewas faking her death because he
never saw the evidence, oranything Gosh.
And I'm the same way, yeah, andI kept.
I went oh, oh my gosh, Iidentify with that so much.
Yeah, because I continue tobelieve, because I never saw the
evidence.
Yeah, I never saw it.
(22:59):
He's just he'll be back, yeah,you know.
So I still.
Then I'm getting better aboutbelieving that he's not coming
back, but you know, but Iidentified with that so much.
Isn't that something?
Speaker 1 (23:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
So like I'm like, oh, I'll take the skate park, yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
But he's not.
Yeah, oh my gosh.
Well, in our next like one ofour quick little vacations this
summer is going to one ofCarter's friends' wedding.
Oh gosh, and I mean it'll bethe first one that we've gone to
.
Good luck, yeah.
And I mean I already haveanxiety about and I mean there's
(23:38):
no doubt I want to be there.
Yes, Um cause I think I had toldyou that there was another
friend of Carter's and we didn'tgo and I just felt, you know,
bad, oh terrible, and and um,they even a yellow butterfly had
landed on her bouquet and thiskid, Dylan, had sent it to us,
(23:59):
you know, and it was like Carterwas here and I was like, oh my
gosh, and we're not, you know so, but it's, it's to be really
tough for sure.
Yeah, but then joy, right,Because I'm so happy for Nate.
Well, yeah, and it's not thatyou're not happy for them.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
Yeah, yeah, it's amazing how much we power
through.
Yeah, warrior moms, we'rewarriors.
We just slice right over, justtake our sword.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
Well, this was good to catch up, I know the two of
us haven't physically seen eachother for a little while.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
No, we just, like you said, go in just different ways
, different times, and I loveconnecting with you and talking
to you through this, because youknow what I'm going through.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
Yeah, absolutely, and no matter what type of grief,
all of us carry it and any humancan understand the sadness,
right, because grief is in everyone of our lives.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
Grief is grief.
You might not have lost a child, but there's so many different
levels of grief.
Speaker 1 (25:09):
Yeah, and I think that's you know.
We just need to give ourself alittle more grace on that.
You know, grace, face it, knowit.
Yes, talk about it, which iswhat you and I do really well,
yes, which is what I think helpsFor sure.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
Well, until next time .
Until next time.
I don't know when it'll be, butit will be.
It'll be soon.
Yes, till next time.
Thanks, guys, bye it's still.
Popular Podcasts
United States of Kennedy
United States of Kennedy is a podcast about our cultural fascination with the Kennedy dynasty. Every week, hosts Lyra Smith and George Civeris go into one aspect of the Kennedy story.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com