January 8, 2025 • 35 mins
Anne Glover's tragic story reveals the intersection of fear, prejudice, and injustice that characterized the witch trials of the 17th century in Boston. Through her tale, we explore themes of cultural misunderstanding, the role of language and religion, and the societal consequences for those deemed different or "other."
• Introduction of Anne Glover as a key historical figure
• Background of immigration and indentured servitude
• The accusation stemming from a domestic dispute
• The role of spectral evidence in Glover’s trial
• Cotton Mather's influence and writings regarding Glover
• The implications of language and cultural barrier in her trial
• The execution and legacy of Anne Glover
• Exploration of Puritanism and its impact on society
• The continuing relevance of Glover’s story in contemporary discussions about prejudice
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Mom (00:00):
I don't like that things that look like that so close to
my face.
Johnathan (00:05):
Well then, take it off.
What, Hannah?
Take it off.
Hannah (00:08):
Take the condom off.
Here we go, oh no.
Mom (00:11):
I brought the condom on.
That's what she said.
Courtney (00:15):
That was a properly used one.
Mom (00:16):
Yes.
Courtney (00:17):
I'm glad I have this.
Hannah (00:19):
Was that better?
Was that better?
I have nothing left.
Okay, hi, I'm Hannah and I'mCourtney.
Courtney (00:41):
Join us as we delve into true crime, paranormal
encounters and all things spooky.
Hannah (00:43):
Grab your flashlight and get ready to wander into the
darkness with us.
Courtney (00:47):
This is Wicked.
Hannah (00:48):
Wanderings.
Hello wanderanderers, hiCourtney, hi Hannah, hi Rob, hi,
(01:10):
we are back with another WiggyWanderings episode, with a
special guest episode and anextra special guest, woo-hoo.
So hello, jonathan.
Johnathan (01:23):
Who's who?
Who's the extra special guest?
Hannah (01:26):
Yeah, you're just the regular guest, Well you're the
extra special guest becauseshe's the special guest doing
the episode.
Oh, so hello extra specialguest Jonathan Whoop whoop.
Hi and here is the specialguest who's doing the episode.
Hello, Mom.
Hi Hannah, Hi Courtney, Thankyou for coming on.
Mom (01:40):
Hi extra special guest Jonathan, hi Ma and Rob.
Hannah (01:45):
Hello, I hope everyone's new year is going well.
It is January 8th right now andwe've had a whole week of this
new year 2025.
Courtney (01:56):
A whole week of writing 2024, when we should
have wrote 2025.
Hannah (02:00):
Yeah, exactly, love it.
Mom, you have the floor.
What do you have for us today?
I don't have to get on thefloor.
Mom's got jokes today.
Mom (02:11):
You have the chair.
Lynn, you have the chair.
I have the chair.
Hannah (02:15):
Break a leg Break a leg.
Mom (02:18):
So today I would like to talk about Mrs Goody Goody Ann
Glover.
Ooh so Goody just means MrsGoody Goody Ann Glover.
Ooh so Goody just means Mrs,and her name is Ann Glover and,
as my family knows, I recentlywent to Ireland, spent 10
wonderful days there, didn'twant to come home, asked them to
ship my dog I would have stayed.
(02:39):
So I'm currently obsessed withall things Irish, including our
heritage and a lot of history.
So, as I've been doing a lottrying to understand the reasons
people left Ireland during theGreat Hunger and the Civil War
and why my grandmother left anda lot of her family, I came
(02:59):
across the case of Anne Glover,who was an Irish immigrant, came
to Boston via Barbados.
So she and her husband wereoriginally from Ireland and
during the time of Cromwell,when he was forcing people out
and they became indenturedservants and they were being
(03:22):
pushed out of Ireland,especially the Catholics, they
ended up going down out ofIreland, especially the
Catholics.
They ended up going down toBarbados as indentured servants
and there her husband was killedfor not renouncing his Catholic
faith.
Johnathan (03:35):
And this is 1600?
.
Mom (03:37):
So this is 1688.
So this is prior to the Salemwitch trials.
So Salem is about 1692.
So we're talking four yearsprior to all that After the
Pendle witch trials in England.
We see some similaritiesthrough all of the witch trials.
But, yes, definitely predatesSalem.
(04:00):
And the interesting thing iswhen I started reading about
this is our old friend CottonMather.
Oh, dear Wanderers, if youhaven't listened to the Salem
Witch Trials, the episodes thatwere done, and the Springfield
Witch Trials.
About a year and a half ago.
This is really interesting andCotton shows up in a really more
(04:21):
of a definitive way in thistrial.
As we know, in the Salem WitchTrials Cotton Mather actually
wrote the kind of the postscripton it.
He's the one that wrote thebook of everything that happened
.
He was given access to all thejudicial records and chronicles
and he kind of put it together.
He only was in Salem once buthe did caution them against the
(04:46):
use of spectral evidence.
So he was he and his fatherboth.
But we'll get to Cotton.
We'll get to Cotton.
Hannah (04:53):
And I do apologize, I'm not looking at you, mom.
It's quite a strain.
Mom (04:57):
Sorry, I'm sitting next to you, it's alright.
Hannah (04:59):
Just letting you know.
Mom (05:00):
So if you're not familiar with this part of the country,
danvers, which is where theSalem Witch Trials took place,
is about 20 miles give or takefrom Boston proper, and so this
is not next door, it is withintraveling distance.
So it's not that far and youcertainly would be shared.
(05:25):
So we'll see a lot ofsimilarities.
What happened later on theSalem Witch Trials?
Because our friend Cotton didwrite a book about the Ann
Glover Trials which actuallybecame almost like a primer of
what to do to make sure that youexecute witches, bad witches,
except the Salem witch trialsjust took it to an nth degree,
(05:49):
right.
So poor young Glover.
So they say she was an elderly,old hag.
By looking at some of the datesof, I'm thinking she was
probably in her late 40s.
Courtney (06:03):
Oh God, I'm approaching, hag probably in her
late 40s.
Oh God, I'm approaching, hagI'm approaching quickly.
Hannah (06:09):
So I think we're at spinster right now, and then
comes hag.
Mom (06:14):
That's what I would think.
Courtney (06:15):
Quick descent.
Mom (06:16):
Yep.
So Anne, as I said, anne waskicked out as an indentured
servant, went to Barbados, endedup making her way, escaping.
I don't know how she ended upin Boston with her daughter,
mary, and a cat, which you knowyou can't have an old woman and
a cat Witch.
Witch she's a witch, you're awitch, right.
Hannah (06:40):
Never mind if you have a teat or two.
Mom (06:45):
So again, she was part of that.
50,000 people that weredeported and it was just a
really terrible time for Ireland.
There were 15,000 to 20,000people that were killed on the
battlefield and they said200,000 to 600,000 civilian
casualties from violence, famineand disease.
So Cromwell was a Puritan andhe took lands from people and
(07:10):
actually helped to move alongthat prejudice against the Irish
and against Catholics, and ifyou were both, that was really
bad.
Hannah (07:20):
Which is so ironic because the Puritans, their
whole platform was they didn'thave religious freedom.
Exactly so just very ironic.
No, the Puritans, their wholeplatform was they didn't have
religious freedom, Exactly sojust very ironic.
Johnathan (07:27):
No, the Puritans didn't care about religious
freedom at all.
For themselves, though.
Well, it wasn't religiousfreedom, it was literally
purifying the Church of England.
They didn't want anybody elseto have any other say.
Mom (07:41):
Yeah, because they felt that the Church of England, the
CVE, had a lot of Roman Catholictendencies in a ritual and
stuff.
But, you're right, the Puritans.
So we'll see what caughtMather's family, his
grandparents one of hisgrandfathers was actually either
left or kicked out had been inSuffolk in the UK well, england,
(08:02):
at the time, and because of hisPuritan beliefs.
But Puritans are not pilgrims.
So Puritans are very religiousfanatics who believe a certain
way is the only way and theright way and they're the only
ones that know it.
Very similar to some of ourreally extreme evangelicals
(08:23):
today.
Hannah (08:24):
Not any different at all , like some of our really
extreme evangelicals today, notany different at all Like some
of our relatives.
Yeah, well, not my relatives myrelatives, johnny's relatives.
Courtney (08:33):
Not my relatives.
Mom (08:36):
Anyway.
So here's poor Anne.
She's a widow woman livingthere and she becomes a good
wife.
She becomes a housekeeper.
She's doing laundry andcleaning up and doing all of
that.
She was a domestic laborer.
She actually went to work forthis gentleman who had six
(08:57):
children and he had a wife too.
Okay, so here she is, living inBoston.
She comes here about 1680.
She's working alongside withher daughter now as a domestic
servant for John Goodwin, who'sactually a stonemason.
He's in a firmly establishedBoston family, very strong
Puritans that she's working for,and Martha Goodwin, the
(09:20):
13-year-old daughter who was thesecond in birth order.
She has an older brother.
She accuses either Anne or thedaughter of stealing laundry.
So, poor Anne, she, as anymother would do or anyone
accused of stealing who's verypoverty-stricken, she goes after
(09:43):
this girl and she lets her havea tongue lashing.
Shortly after the girl fallsill.
Hannah (09:50):
See where this is going.
Witch, she's a witch.
Mom (09:54):
So she's got an older brother who's never afflicted,
and she has a very young baby,actually, whose name is Hannah,
who's just a year old.
She never becomes afflicted,but the four children in the
middle all become afflicted withstrange seizures and barking
(10:14):
and making noises and havingpain only during the day, but at
night, when they went to sleep,they weren't afflicted by
anything, right?
So they bring a doctor in,right?
Courtney (10:25):
Psychology could do a lot with that one.
Mom (10:27):
So they bring this Dr Oaks in and he comes in and he says,
well, it has to be witchcraft,it has to be witchcraft.
Courtney (10:33):
A doctor said that I wish I could use that when
someone asked me about theirkid's behavior.
It has to be witchcraft.
Johnathan (10:38):
I can't figure it out .
Mom (10:39):
So it's definitely witchcraft.
So poor Ann has a reputation inthe neighborhood of being a
little crazy.
So, ann, she's Catholic.
Ann, she doesn't speak Englishvery well.
So they all said, oh, it's gotto be Ann.
You know, we had thisaltercation about some missing
(10:59):
laundry, and so now my kids aresick.
And then, of course, all theneighbors come in and one
neighbor says oh, my son dreamtthat she came down the chimney
to torment him and stuff.
So this was this whole thingabout spectral evidence.
You know you're not supposed tobelieve anything like that.
So anyways, our good old friendCotton Mather, he comes in.
(11:25):
This is what he writes and I'mgoing to quote here, like Hannah
Lewis and here I am quoting,here I am quoting Cotton says
she's a scandalous old Irishwoman, very poor, a Roman
Catholic and obstinate in heridolatry.
So during her trial, so theybring her, this poor woman, to
(11:45):
trial.
So Cotton Mather's there forall of this.
They bring her to trial and Itell her recite the Lord's
Prayer, because if you can't saythe Our Father in English, then
you're a witch.
It has to be in English.
Courtney (11:57):
But she doesn't speak fluent English.
No.
Mom (12:00):
So this woman says the Our Father in Gaelic, irish, her
native tongue, and then says itin Latin.
Now we've got to remember.
Up until about the 1970s, allthe masses I remember as a kid
Catholic masses were all inLatin.
My father, who never spokeanything other than English,
could tell you the whole mass inLatin because he was an altar
(12:23):
boy.
So she can say it in Latin, shecan say it in what they think
is Gaelic, but she can't say itin English.
So that meant she was guilty.
Hannah (12:33):
And nowadays we call that intelligent.
Mom (12:36):
Yes, almost three languages , yeah she could speak two
languages and stuff.
Johnathan (12:41):
Ma a quick question Do we know where the John
Goodwin house was in Boston?
I?
Do not, I'd be reallyinterested to hear where that is
, or was rather yeah.
Mom (12:54):
So remember, cotton is actually a co-pastor at the.
It was the CongregationalistChurch, which has been in seven
or eight locations in Boston.
I'm not sure the exact timingof where that was then.
But we'll get to good oldcotton in a minute.
But I wanted to talk about Annefor a second.
(13:14):
So she comes out of Ireland andthere's a history of witchcraft.
The first witchcraft trialswere back in the 1300s.
She's been persecuted for herreligion.
She's gone to Barbados.
Those were called coffin shipsthat they sent the Irish down in
.
She managed to live throughthat.
She has a child.
She's gone to Barbados.
Those were called coffin shipsthat they sent the Irish down in
.
She managed to live throughthat.
She has a child.
She loses her husband.
She ends up in Boston.
She can't speak the language.
(13:34):
She's in with Puritans.
They hate her because, numberone, she's widowed.
Number two, she's Irish.
Number three, she can't speakEnglish and she's an old hag of
what 45.
So the poor woman, she neverhad a chance.
Honestly, she never had achance.
And in Ireland it's very commonfor them to have wise women or
(13:58):
healers, and they also.
There's a whole cult of fairies.
My grandmother used to talkabout the fairies and she was a
very Irish Catholic but therewas a whole culture of believing
in the fairy people andsometimes they were good fairy
people and sometimes they werenot so nice fairy people, the
fae, the fae why there's somegreat book recommendations.
Courtney (14:17):
I was just gonna say Hannah's little bookworm, I can
see it turning Love my fantasyfae books.
Hannah (14:23):
Anyways, oh, we could talk later.
Why are you?
Johnathan (14:28):
It just caught up with me what you really meant.
It's smut, isn't it?
Courtney (14:34):
Not all of them are smut.
Some, you know, depends.
Is that what you want?
Johnathan (14:39):
No, I thought it was more of like the history of the
Fae.
Hannah (14:41):
Oh, no, oh, no, no, no.
It's like fantasy.
Johnathan (14:44):
And then you were like fantasy and I was like, oh,
that sounds great.
And then I realized, oh no.
Courtney (14:48):
Fantasy Faye.
Johnathan (14:49):
She does yeah no.
Courtney (14:50):
If we come across a good just Faye history we'll let
you know.
Johnathan (14:54):
Yes, thank you.
Hannah (14:55):
You're welcome.
Johnathan (14:56):
Sorry mom, please continue.
No, don't be sorry, yourdaughter's awful, I'm a good
girl.
Courtney (15:04):
We wouldn't go that far.
Johnathan (15:05):
You hag.
Courtney (15:07):
She has not approached hag yet.
She has like 10 whole years.
Hannah (15:13):
I got you.
I may have teats, but I haveseveral.
Three, I have three, damn it.
I'll have to count them later.
Mom (15:22):
Okay, so Cotton Mather, who is in Boston and he's got his
own issues and I can't wait totalk about what those are.
He shows up and he startsinterrogating her in her cell at
night, where supposedly she ispraying to her.
What she says to an interpretercomes out as spirits.
(15:46):
I'm thinking that she'sprobably praying to saints.
Courtney (15:51):
Yeah, that would make sense.
Mom (15:53):
You know she's Catholic, so she's probably praying to St
Anthony and St Bridget, and youknow St Catherine.
Whatever saint will listen, youknow whatever saint will listen,
and the Irish have a reallyclose connection with the saints
.
I remember I had a great auntwho was a nun and was Irish and
(16:14):
we went in one time into hercell and she had her statue of
St Anthony, which was herfavorite saint, and his face was
turned to the wall.
And my mother said Sister, mary, stella, why is St Anthony
facing the wall?
And she said well, I prayed tohim and he didn't answer me.
So I got mad and turned himaround.
So there's a real strongconnection between these people
(16:39):
and their faith and their saints.
He's saying, yes, I've beenpraying to these spirits, and so
, mather, through theinterpreter whether they could
speak Gaelic or not was anotherthing she said, oh my gosh,
these are demons she's prayingto.
So they go to her house andthey find these little dolls.
Now, whether they're icons forher to pray to her saints,
(17:01):
whether they were puppets, Iwonder.
In Barbados there's a reallystrong culture of voodoo.
I mean, who knows, you know?
I mean I don't think she hadanything.
I personally, from what I read,she seemed like she was a
really strong Catholic woman,but she also had a really what
we always called an Irish temperand when people would say stuff
(17:22):
to her she would yell at them.
But at one point they thoughtshe was speaking in tongues
because she was speaking Gaelic,her native language, and they
were thinking she was speakingin tongues, which was not a
Puritan thing, or she wascommunicating in the devil's
word.
This poor woman could not catcha break.
She really could not catch abreak.
Courtney (17:41):
The cards were definitely not in her favor.
Mom (17:43):
No.
So he says in his own writingsthat he cannot speak Gaelic, but
he's pretty sure what she wassaying.
So I don't know if that'sbetter than I.
So anyways, we don't know whothe translators were.
We don't know if they wereactually understood.
They were concerned about ourmental health, so they brought
(18:03):
all these physicians in toassess our mental health.
So they brought all thesephysicians in to assess their
mental health.
Again, these are Englishspeaking male doctors talking to
this Irish woman about hermental health and they were
saying oh yeah, she's fine.
Yeah, she's fine.
So I think that's justprejudice and ignorance.
I don't know any other way tocategorize that.
So they said she was mentallycompetent and she was executed.
(18:27):
She told them on the way to behung that her death would not
relieve the children of theirillness.
Now she was.
She was trying to tell them.
Courtney (18:38):
I think was this isn't how to fix it, and she didn't
do it.
She's like I'm not connected tothis.
Mom (18:43):
And even Mather wrote after that he believes that she was
in league with someone else andthat he said right in his
writings he did say that hethought there was someone she
was in league with and he evensaid that when she was executed
that the children would not getany better.
So I'm wondering if he wastrying to kind of cover his
(19:03):
tracks.
Maybe I don't know.
Anyway, so she dies November 1818, 1688.
They hung her in what is nowthe south end neighborhood, uh,
on the current site of the holycross cathedral, which to me is
good for you, and I mean atleast you're on.
They built the cathedral only,uh, I googled it, john, 0.2
(19:27):
miles from your neighborhood.
Johnathan (19:29):
Yep, I live right around the corner from the Roman
Catholic Cathedral.
Mom (19:32):
Yeah, you can see it, almost see it from your front
door.
Yeah, so they said she was hungthere.
A lot of people want to believeshe was hung on the elm.
That was in.
Johnathan (19:44):
The hanging tree on the common.
Mom (19:45):
Yeah, but they said that probably wasn't where it
happened.
She was the last person thatwas executed for witchcraft, but
just in researching this, Ifound there were thousands of
people that were buried on thecommon, which just totally
creeps me out.
They had mass graves, they hadindigenous people.
The Puritans were killing theQuakers.
(20:06):
The Puritans were just a realissue, you know but one thing I
wanted to mention.
Johnathan (20:13):
I mentioned this before.
We were um talking offlineabout your podcast, uh topic, um
and um, and I told you howinteresting I thought history of
washington street, um, which isthe, the main artery that takes
you from basically downtownBoston with the common straight
(20:35):
out to Roxbury is, and along theway that, where the Roman
Catholic cathedral is and that'swhere we're not just the your
person would have been hanged,but also traitors and pirates
and other people accused ofwitchcraft.
(20:56):
Tons of people would have beenhanged out there.
Yeah, because when we look atthe map of Boston, the majority
of it is filled in land from the19th century, including the
South End.
Mom (21:05):
Yeah.
Johnathan (21:06):
But basically Boston was technically a peninsula, but
more like a tiny island, whichis today's Boston Common, a
little bit of Beacon Hill, alittle bit of downtown, a little
bit of the North End and WestEnd, and then this very skinny
land bridge which is modern dayWashington Street, which would
have basically taken you frommodern downtown Boston straight
(21:30):
out to Roxbury, with water andswamp on either side.
So, very close to the RomanCatholic Cathedral is an
intersection, probably just ablock or two up closer to
downtown, called the Boston Neck, and that's where the city gate
would have been for Boston.
So she would have been hanged,just like many other people
(21:52):
would have been hanged outsideof the gate, but basically along
the only main highway and thena few blocks further walking
away from downtown Bostontowards Roxbury.
On Washington Street is a veryold cemetery.
Most graves aren't marked, andit would have been a place for
the undesirable people who hadbeen hanged outside the city
(22:14):
walls to be buried as well.
There's a lot of reallyinteresting history about why
modern-day Washington Street isso important.
Hannah (22:23):
Is there a monument or a plaque or something, for her at
least?
Mom (22:26):
They actually had a goodie glove every day or something,
whatever it was in Boston, tokind of say hmm guess what?
Oops, sorry, you made a mistake.
Hannah (22:37):
Kind of what Salem did for all the witches
quote-unquote that were hung inSalem they gave them.
Johnathan (22:43):
Yes, I wonder if there's anything in the
cathedral.
Mom (22:46):
I don't know, that would be a good spot.
Johnathan (22:48):
Yeah, because I mean she's almost a martyr when you
think about it.
That would be a good spot.
Yeah, because I mean she'salmost a martyr when you think
about it.
Mom (22:52):
Yeah, I mean she was, and I think they realized that 300
years later.
Yeah, we made a mistake, youknow, but we really have to
understand how strong thePuritan connection to Boston was
.
I mean, a lot of them werethere.
They had no religious toleranceat all.
(23:13):
The Quakers.
The king finally reached out tothem and said stop executing
Quakers.
You got to stop because theQuakers were very steadfast.
Hannah (23:21):
They're very peaceful people, the Quakers.
Mom (23:24):
But they're also very steadfast in their beliefs.
So they were told not to comeinto Boston proper.
They were cut off an ear.
The second time they were cutoff another ear and then the
third time they would executethem.
There were indigenous peoplethat they killed.
They really had no tolerancefor anybody that wasn't a
Puritan.
Hannah (23:41):
Was it the Puritan that believed in predestination for
salvation?
Johnathan (23:45):
I think that's right, because who's the guy that's?
Hannah (23:47):
buried.
Okay, yeah, there's a guythat's buried up in Northampton
buried.
Mom (23:52):
Okay, yeah, there's a guy that's buried up in northampton.
Oh, I know you're talking about?
Johnathan (23:55):
I mean now we're getting into the 1700s.
Hannah (23:56):
I know, but in the hands of an angry god yeah yeah, that
was his famous I rememberlearning that with pastor graham
did you go on that field tripum no, we didn't go to
northampton maybe I'm sodomgomorrah yeah, bring a little
christian glass too.
Surprise I'm still gay johnny,we wouldn't want you any other
(24:22):
way.
Mom (24:23):
Good live your truth, baby, live your truth.
So anyways, her poor daughtermary has a.
Hannah (24:31):
Well, they probably made her watch too.
Mom (24:34):
Yeah, yeah she had a total breakdown.
There were a lot of people thatbooed her during the execution,
but there was one person thatsaid this was absolutely
ridiculous.
This woman did nothing but bewho she was and said you killed
somebody.
But here we go.
So this is after.
I think this is where it getsinteresting.
(24:55):
I feel bad for this woman, nodoubt, but this is where it gets
interesting.
So Cotton Mather has these fourof six children right that are
not getting better.
So he takes the oldest daughterinto his house to live with him
so that he can pray and fast.
And this happened at PendleWitch Trials.
This happened in the SalemWitch Trials, where someone
(25:19):
would take one of the kids in.
It was almost like they werecoaching them and this girl was
not getting better.
He was just not getting better.
Hannah (25:26):
This is the bratty 13-year-old.
Mom (25:28):
This is a bratty 13-year-old.
Hannah (25:30):
Martha.
Mom (25:34):
Right, yeah, yeah.
So anyways, the younger threechildren to get martha out of
the house.
Younger children go back tonormal.
Hmm, interesting surprise.
And the eldest son, who wasprobably august 15, 16 at the
time, and the baby neverimpacted at all.
There is a report where shetries to throw herself into the
fire and they were saying it wasdemons.
And I'm going no, that's just aguilty conscience, right?
(25:55):
But Cotten has some problems,and this is the other part of
the story is that he's awell-educated Puritan.
He actually was admitted toHarvard.
Now, harvard's not the Harvardwe know.
Now Harvard was a seminary.
It was, you know, it's where.
The Harvard we know now Harvardwas a seminary.
Hannah (26:12):
It was Only men too right.
Mom (26:15):
Only men, only Puritans.
Very, very different than theuniversity that's just so
well-known right now.
Hannah (26:21):
It's not the Gilmore Girls Harvard.
Mom (26:24):
He goes to Harvard and he's there for a couple months.
He's so badly bullied he goeshome, he runs home and he tries
it again.
But he's so badly bullied hegoes home, he runs home when,
where I know?
And he tries it again.
But he was awfully young, at 11, but it had a lot to do with
his father's position with theschool.
So I have a quote and here I amquoting, by his peers and they
(26:46):
said that he was aggressive,vain and a genius.
He had over 400 publishedwritings.
He also competed with hisfather.
He never could quite live up tohis father's reputation.
His father's name is IncreaseMather.
So you know the Puritans, theyhave these great names, like
(27:07):
when you're born, they kind ofname you like.
You know, like like she could belike God's grace every day, you
know.
But that would be her firstname.
So his father's name wasincreased he's Cotton, which was
his grandfather's name on hison his mother's side.
That's how he became CottonMather.
(27:28):
How he became Cotton MatherBecause he has so many issues
and because he also thatreligious zeal.
It kind of was like a lethalcombination.
You know he came from a veryprestigious Boston family.
He did have a speech defectwhich caused him to stutter and
could be part of the reason hewas bullied when he first went
(27:48):
to school.
He did return to Harvard andgot his BA and MA.
He was very young.
His father was the Harvardpresident then, so they probably
had some insulation from thebullying.
It did say he lived in hisfather's shadow.
They did have a following outduring the Salem witch trials.
His father didn't care for theway that Cotton was, I don't
(28:11):
know writing about it orsomething, but they did have.
They are actually both buriedin the Cobbs Hill Cemetery.
They're both there.
They have a family plot therethat we can see.
But I just think it was like theperfect storm of some really
bad things happening when thispoor woman who escaped Ireland
(28:33):
that came back from Barbados,thought she was coming to the
new world for opportunity, andjust because they didn't
understand how she was or didn'tspeak her language, she was
executed.
And then you've got Kant Mather.
You've got someone who's gotsome real parental issues, very
well-educated, strong Bostonfamily, and then writing,
(28:55):
writing about it, writing aboutit and then getting involved in
the Salem Witch Trials.
So I think they thought he wasreally brilliant for a while.
But they said his reputationhas really taken a hit over the
last decades.
People are blaming him for alot, but he really was not that
involved with the Salem witchtrials.
But he's definitely here.
He is handling interrogations,he's handling misinformation and
(29:20):
, you know, taking a 13-year-oldgirl to live in his house after
to, you know, to pray and fastover her.
Johnathan (29:28):
A little weird.
Mom (29:29):
Yeah, a little strange, a little strange Kind of to prove
his point, but then in hiswriting, kind of vindicating
himself.
It's just a really sad storyall the way around.
But Salem, witch Trials, we'vegot women that are single,
mostly widowed or elderly, whohave nobody to protect them, who
(29:49):
are misunderstood, who may ormay not have some healing.
Again, language barrier, just areal issue of misogyny,
prejudice and religious zealthat just still exists today.
Let's face it, it happens allover the world.
So that's the story of Goody,mrs Ann Glover.
Thank you, that was good.
So we're going to go to Bostonand we're going to walk around
(30:11):
the comic.
So that's the story of Goody,mrs Ann Glover.
Thank you that was good.
Courtney (30:12):
Thanks, Mom.
Mom (30:13):
So we're going to go to Boston and we're going to walk
around the comic, so there aresome memorials to some of the
people that are buried there.
I'd like to go back and look atit in terms of that and not
almost treating it like it is acemetery as opposed to being
just a green space, becauseevery time tea they were always
they were finding bones andbodies and stuff down there when
(30:34):
they were putting the tea in.
Johnathan (30:37):
And there were a lot of memorials, like there's a
memorial to, um, ann Hutchinson,um, on the grounds of the state
Capitol building, um, butthere's a lot of memorials up
there.
We made a lot of mistakes.
Mom (30:50):
Yeah, isn't the Ann Hutchinson one like white in
front of the Capitol?
Yeah, yeah Well that's great.
Hannah (30:56):
Thank you, mom, for researching and sharing Love.
To Thank you for having me backagain.
Anybody else have questions?
Comments concerns I got nothing.
Courtney (31:05):
I was going to say did you read the book, which is
when you did yours?
Yes, is when you did your yes.
I want to say ann glover wasmentioned briefly in that book
because as she was talking, I'mlike, okay, I've definitely read
, not as in detail as what lynnhad just no but her name before
yeah, there was definitely likea quick like oh, we're going to
salem, so we're just gonna likeskirt past this thing that
happened also very quickly.
Hannah (31:25):
I think it was with those um, when they talked about
wells main with the nativeamerican tax and everything.
It was like the backgroundinformation.
Courtney (31:33):
There was one she had said, Martha, that I was like,
wait a second.
No, this definitely rings abell.
Okay, I'm glad that I'm notcrazy.
Hannah (31:38):
No, you're not, that was there.
Yeah, absolutely, I thought thesame thing.
Mom (31:42):
I think she's very well known in the Boston area.
Yeah, but if you're not fromthis part of the country you may
not be as well acquainted within.
Courtney (31:50):
Well, that's the truth for witches in general.
I find I have friends who livelike Colorado or in other states
and they didn't learn aboutwitches the same way that we do
out here Like we kind of I feellike it's just like oh,
everybody knows about the SalemWitch Trials and people do as
far as like Hocus.
Johnathan (32:06):
Pocus and the Sanderson Sisters.
Courtney (32:08):
But they don't have the history and the background
of it, the way that we get inschools in Massachusetts.
Hannah (32:15):
And they have those misconstrued facts about witches
burning.
I know that they were hung.
Courtney (32:19):
Yes, Pizza man showed us that.
What was he nailing them tocrosses?
Is that what he said?
Hannah (32:25):
He was mixing some religions together.
Courtney (32:28):
He had some Jesus stuff and witches stuff all
backwards.
It's Rhode Island for you.
Hannah (32:32):
Well, thank you everybody, and thank you
Wanderers.
Happy New Year again.
Happy.
Courtney (32:36):
New.
Hannah (32:36):
Year, and we'll catch you next time.
Courtney (32:38):
Bye, bye, wanderers.
Hannah (32:40):
Thanks for listening today.
Wicked Wanderings is hosted byme, hannah, and co-hosted by me,
courtney, and it's by RobFitzpatrick.
Music by Sasha M.
If you enjoyed today's episode,don't forget to leave a rating
and review, and be sure tofollow on all socials.
You can find the links down inthe show notes.
If you're looking for somereally cozy t-shirts or hoodies,
head over to the merch store.
(33:02):
Thank you for being a part ofthe Wicked Wanderings community.
We appreciate every one of you.
Stay curious, keep exploringand always remember to keep on
wandering, thank you.
I don't like that things that look like that so close to
my face.
Johnathan (00:05):
Well then, take it off.
What, Hannah?
Take it off.
Hannah (00:08):
Take the condom off.
Here we go, oh no.
Mom (00:11):
I brought the condom on.
That's what she said.
Courtney (00:15):
That was a properly used one.
Mom (00:16):
Yes.
Courtney (00:17):
I'm glad I have this.
Hannah (00:19):
Was that better?
Was that better?
I have nothing left.
Okay, hi, I'm Hannah and I'mCourtney.
Courtney (00:41):
Join us as we delve into true crime, paranormal
encounters and all things spooky.
Hannah (00:43):
Grab your flashlight and get ready to wander into the
darkness with us.
Courtney (00:47):
This is Wicked.
Hannah (00:48):
Wanderings.
Hello wanderanderers, hiCourtney, hi Hannah, hi Rob, hi,
(01:10):
we are back with another WiggyWanderings episode, with a
special guest episode and anextra special guest, woo-hoo.
So hello, jonathan.
Johnathan (01:23):
Who's who?
Who's the extra special guest?
Hannah (01:26):
Yeah, you're just the regular guest, Well you're the
extra special guest becauseshe's the special guest doing
the episode.
Oh, so hello extra specialguest Jonathan Whoop whoop.
Hi and here is the specialguest who's doing the episode.
Hello, Mom.
Hi Hannah, Hi Courtney, Thankyou for coming on.
Mom (01:40):
Hi extra special guest Jonathan, hi Ma and Rob.
Hannah (01:45):
Hello, I hope everyone's new year is going well.
It is January 8th right now andwe've had a whole week of this
new year 2025.
Courtney (01:56):
A whole week of writing 2024, when we should
have wrote 2025.
Hannah (02:00):
Yeah, exactly, love it.
Mom, you have the floor.
What do you have for us today?
I don't have to get on thefloor.
Mom's got jokes today.
Mom (02:11):
You have the chair.
Lynn, you have the chair.
I have the chair.
Hannah (02:15):
Break a leg Break a leg.
Mom (02:18):
So today I would like to talk about Mrs Goody Goody Ann
Glover.
Ooh so Goody just means MrsGoody Goody Ann Glover.
Ooh so Goody just means Mrs,and her name is Ann Glover and,
as my family knows, I recentlywent to Ireland, spent 10
wonderful days there, didn'twant to come home, asked them to
ship my dog I would have stayed.
(02:39):
So I'm currently obsessed withall things Irish, including our
heritage and a lot of history.
So, as I've been doing a lottrying to understand the reasons
people left Ireland during theGreat Hunger and the Civil War
and why my grandmother left anda lot of her family, I came
(02:59):
across the case of Anne Glover,who was an Irish immigrant, came
to Boston via Barbados.
So she and her husband wereoriginally from Ireland and
during the time of Cromwell,when he was forcing people out
and they became indenturedservants and they were being
(03:22):
pushed out of Ireland,especially the Catholics, they
ended up going down out ofIreland, especially the
Catholics.
They ended up going down toBarbados as indentured servants
and there her husband was killedfor not renouncing his Catholic
faith.
Johnathan (03:35):
And this is 1600?
.
Mom (03:37):
So this is 1688.
So this is prior to the Salemwitch trials.
So Salem is about 1692.
So we're talking four yearsprior to all that After the
Pendle witch trials in England.
We see some similaritiesthrough all of the witch trials.
But, yes, definitely predatesSalem.
(04:00):
And the interesting thing iswhen I started reading about
this is our old friend CottonMather.
Oh, dear Wanderers, if youhaven't listened to the Salem
Witch Trials, the episodes thatwere done, and the Springfield
Witch Trials.
About a year and a half ago.
This is really interesting andCotton shows up in a really more
(04:21):
of a definitive way in thistrial.
As we know, in the Salem WitchTrials Cotton Mather actually
wrote the kind of the postscripton it.
He's the one that wrote thebook of everything that happened
.
He was given access to all thejudicial records and chronicles
and he kind of put it together.
He only was in Salem once buthe did caution them against the
(04:46):
use of spectral evidence.
So he was he and his fatherboth.
But we'll get to Cotton.
We'll get to Cotton.
Hannah (04:53):
And I do apologize, I'm not looking at you, mom.
It's quite a strain.
Mom (04:57):
Sorry, I'm sitting next to you, it's alright.
Hannah (04:59):
Just letting you know.
Mom (05:00):
So if you're not familiar with this part of the country,
danvers, which is where theSalem Witch Trials took place,
is about 20 miles give or takefrom Boston proper, and so this
is not next door, it is withintraveling distance.
So it's not that far and youcertainly would be shared.
(05:25):
So we'll see a lot ofsimilarities.
What happened later on theSalem Witch Trials?
Because our friend Cotton didwrite a book about the Ann
Glover Trials which actuallybecame almost like a primer of
what to do to make sure that youexecute witches, bad witches,
except the Salem witch trialsjust took it to an nth degree,
(05:49):
right.
So poor young Glover.
So they say she was an elderly,old hag.
By looking at some of the datesof, I'm thinking she was
probably in her late 40s.
Courtney (06:03):
Oh God, I'm approaching, hag probably in her
late 40s.
Oh God, I'm approaching, hagI'm approaching quickly.
Hannah (06:09):
So I think we're at spinster right now, and then
comes hag.
Mom (06:14):
That's what I would think.
Courtney (06:15):
Quick descent.
Mom (06:16):
Yep.
So Anne, as I said, anne waskicked out as an indentured
servant, went to Barbados, endedup making her way, escaping.
I don't know how she ended upin Boston with her daughter,
mary, and a cat, which you knowyou can't have an old woman and
a cat Witch.
Witch she's a witch, you're awitch, right.
Hannah (06:40):
Never mind if you have a teat or two.
Mom (06:45):
So again, she was part of that.
50,000 people that weredeported and it was just a
really terrible time for Ireland.
There were 15,000 to 20,000people that were killed on the
battlefield and they said200,000 to 600,000 civilian
casualties from violence, famineand disease.
So Cromwell was a Puritan andhe took lands from people and
(07:10):
actually helped to move alongthat prejudice against the Irish
and against Catholics, and ifyou were both, that was really
bad.
Hannah (07:20):
Which is so ironic because the Puritans, their
whole platform was they didn'thave religious freedom.
Exactly so just very ironic.
No, the Puritans, their wholeplatform was they didn't have
religious freedom, Exactly sojust very ironic.
Johnathan (07:27):
No, the Puritans didn't care about religious
freedom at all.
For themselves, though.
Well, it wasn't religiousfreedom, it was literally
purifying the Church of England.
They didn't want anybody elseto have any other say.
Mom (07:41):
Yeah, because they felt that the Church of England, the
CVE, had a lot of Roman Catholictendencies in a ritual and
stuff.
But, you're right, the Puritans.
So we'll see what caughtMather's family, his
grandparents one of hisgrandfathers was actually either
left or kicked out had been inSuffolk in the UK well, england,
(08:02):
at the time, and because of hisPuritan beliefs.
But Puritans are not pilgrims.
So Puritans are very religiousfanatics who believe a certain
way is the only way and theright way and they're the only
ones that know it.
Very similar to some of ourreally extreme evangelicals
(08:23):
today.
Hannah (08:24):
Not any different at all , like some of our really
extreme evangelicals today, notany different at all Like some
of our relatives.
Yeah, well, not my relatives myrelatives, johnny's relatives.
Courtney (08:33):
Not my relatives.
Mom (08:36):
Anyway.
So here's poor Anne.
She's a widow woman livingthere and she becomes a good
wife.
She becomes a housekeeper.
She's doing laundry andcleaning up and doing all of
that.
She was a domestic laborer.
She actually went to work forthis gentleman who had six
(08:57):
children and he had a wife too.
Okay, so here she is, living inBoston.
She comes here about 1680.
She's working alongside withher daughter now as a domestic
servant for John Goodwin, who'sactually a stonemason.
He's in a firmly establishedBoston family, very strong
Puritans that she's working for,and Martha Goodwin, the
(09:20):
13-year-old daughter who was thesecond in birth order.
She has an older brother.
She accuses either Anne or thedaughter of stealing laundry.
So, poor Anne, she, as anymother would do or anyone
accused of stealing who's verypoverty-stricken, she goes after
(09:43):
this girl and she lets her havea tongue lashing.
Shortly after the girl fallsill.
Hannah (09:50):
See where this is going.
Witch, she's a witch.
Mom (09:54):
So she's got an older brother who's never afflicted,
and she has a very young baby,actually, whose name is Hannah,
who's just a year old.
She never becomes afflicted,but the four children in the
middle all become afflicted withstrange seizures and barking
(10:14):
and making noises and havingpain only during the day, but at
night, when they went to sleep,they weren't afflicted by
anything, right?
So they bring a doctor in,right?
Courtney (10:25):
Psychology could do a lot with that one.
Mom (10:27):
So they bring this Dr Oaks in and he comes in and he says,
well, it has to be witchcraft,it has to be witchcraft.
Courtney (10:33):
A doctor said that I wish I could use that when
someone asked me about theirkid's behavior.
It has to be witchcraft.
Johnathan (10:38):
I can't figure it out .
Mom (10:39):
So it's definitely witchcraft.
So poor Ann has a reputation inthe neighborhood of being a
little crazy.
So, ann, she's Catholic.
Ann, she doesn't speak Englishvery well.
So they all said, oh, it's gotto be Ann.
You know, we had thisaltercation about some missing
(10:59):
laundry, and so now my kids aresick.
And then, of course, all theneighbors come in and one
neighbor says oh, my son dreamtthat she came down the chimney
to torment him and stuff.
So this was this whole thingabout spectral evidence.
You know you're not supposed tobelieve anything like that.
So anyways, our good old friendCotton Mather, he comes in.
(11:25):
This is what he writes and I'mgoing to quote here, like Hannah
Lewis and here I am quoting,here I am quoting Cotton says
she's a scandalous old Irishwoman, very poor, a Roman
Catholic and obstinate in heridolatry.
So during her trial, so theybring her, this poor woman, to
(11:45):
trial.
So Cotton Mather's there forall of this.
They bring her to trial and Itell her recite the Lord's
Prayer, because if you can't saythe Our Father in English, then
you're a witch.
It has to be in English.
Courtney (11:57):
But she doesn't speak fluent English.
No.
Mom (12:00):
So this woman says the Our Father in Gaelic, irish, her
native tongue, and then says itin Latin.
Now we've got to remember.
Up until about the 1970s, allthe masses I remember as a kid
Catholic masses were all inLatin.
My father, who never spokeanything other than English,
could tell you the whole mass inLatin because he was an altar
(12:23):
boy.
So she can say it in Latin, shecan say it in what they think
is Gaelic, but she can't say itin English.
So that meant she was guilty.
Hannah (12:33):
And nowadays we call that intelligent.
Mom (12:36):
Yes, almost three languages , yeah she could speak two
languages and stuff.
Johnathan (12:41):
Ma a quick question Do we know where the John
Goodwin house was in Boston?
I?
Do not, I'd be reallyinterested to hear where that is
, or was rather yeah.
Mom (12:54):
So remember, cotton is actually a co-pastor at the.
It was the CongregationalistChurch, which has been in seven
or eight locations in Boston.
I'm not sure the exact timingof where that was then.
But we'll get to good oldcotton in a minute.
But I wanted to talk about Annefor a second.
(13:14):
So she comes out of Ireland andthere's a history of witchcraft.
The first witchcraft trialswere back in the 1300s.
She's been persecuted for herreligion.
She's gone to Barbados.
Those were called coffin shipsthat they sent the Irish down in
.
She managed to live throughthat.
She has a child.
She's gone to Barbados.
Those were called coffin shipsthat they sent the Irish down in
.
She managed to live throughthat.
She has a child.
She loses her husband.
She ends up in Boston.
She can't speak the language.
(13:34):
She's in with Puritans.
They hate her because, numberone, she's widowed.
Number two, she's Irish.
Number three, she can't speakEnglish and she's an old hag of
what 45.
So the poor woman, she neverhad a chance.
Honestly, she never had achance.
And in Ireland it's very commonfor them to have wise women or
(13:58):
healers, and they also.
There's a whole cult of fairies.
My grandmother used to talkabout the fairies and she was a
very Irish Catholic but therewas a whole culture of believing
in the fairy people andsometimes they were good fairy
people and sometimes they werenot so nice fairy people, the
fae, the fae why there's somegreat book recommendations.
Courtney (14:17):
I was just gonna say Hannah's little bookworm, I can
see it turning Love my fantasyfae books.
Hannah (14:23):
Anyways, oh, we could talk later.
Why are you?
Johnathan (14:28):
It just caught up with me what you really meant.
It's smut, isn't it?
Courtney (14:34):
Not all of them are smut.
Some, you know, depends.
Is that what you want?
Johnathan (14:39):
No, I thought it was more of like the history of the
Fae.
Hannah (14:41):
Oh, no, oh, no, no, no.
It's like fantasy.
Johnathan (14:44):
And then you were like fantasy and I was like, oh,
that sounds great.
And then I realized, oh no.
Courtney (14:48):
Fantasy Faye.
Johnathan (14:49):
She does yeah no.
Courtney (14:50):
If we come across a good just Faye history we'll let
you know.
Johnathan (14:54):
Yes, thank you.
Hannah (14:55):
You're welcome.
Johnathan (14:56):
Sorry mom, please continue.
No, don't be sorry, yourdaughter's awful, I'm a good
girl.
Courtney (15:04):
We wouldn't go that far.
Johnathan (15:05):
You hag.
Courtney (15:07):
She has not approached hag yet.
She has like 10 whole years.
Hannah (15:13):
I got you.
I may have teats, but I haveseveral.
Three, I have three, damn it.
I'll have to count them later.
Mom (15:22):
Okay, so Cotton Mather, who is in Boston and he's got his
own issues and I can't wait totalk about what those are.
He shows up and he startsinterrogating her in her cell at
night, where supposedly she ispraying to her.
What she says to an interpretercomes out as spirits.
(15:46):
I'm thinking that she'sprobably praying to saints.
Courtney (15:51):
Yeah, that would make sense.
Mom (15:53):
You know she's Catholic, so she's probably praying to St
Anthony and St Bridget, and youknow St Catherine.
Whatever saint will listen, youknow whatever saint will listen,
and the Irish have a reallyclose connection with the saints
.
I remember I had a great auntwho was a nun and was Irish and
(16:14):
we went in one time into hercell and she had her statue of
St Anthony, which was herfavorite saint, and his face was
turned to the wall.
And my mother said Sister, mary, stella, why is St Anthony
facing the wall?
And she said well, I prayed tohim and he didn't answer me.
So I got mad and turned himaround.
So there's a real strongconnection between these people
(16:39):
and their faith and their saints.
He's saying, yes, I've beenpraying to these spirits, and so
, mather, through theinterpreter whether they could
speak Gaelic or not was anotherthing she said, oh my gosh,
these are demons she's prayingto.
So they go to her house andthey find these little dolls.
Now, whether they're icons forher to pray to her saints,
(17:01):
whether they were puppets, Iwonder.
In Barbados there's a reallystrong culture of voodoo.
I mean, who knows, you know?
I mean I don't think she hadanything.
I personally, from what I read,she seemed like she was a
really strong Catholic woman,but she also had a really what
we always called an Irish temperand when people would say stuff
(17:22):
to her she would yell at them.
But at one point they thoughtshe was speaking in tongues
because she was speaking Gaelic,her native language, and they
were thinking she was speakingin tongues, which was not a
Puritan thing, or she wascommunicating in the devil's
word.
This poor woman could not catcha break.
She really could not catch abreak.
Courtney (17:41):
The cards were definitely not in her favor.
Mom (17:43):
No.
So he says in his own writingsthat he cannot speak Gaelic, but
he's pretty sure what she wassaying.
So I don't know if that'sbetter than I.
So anyways, we don't know whothe translators were.
We don't know if they wereactually understood.
They were concerned about ourmental health, so they brought
(18:03):
all these physicians in toassess our mental health.
So they brought all thesephysicians in to assess their
mental health.
Again, these are Englishspeaking male doctors talking to
this Irish woman about hermental health and they were
saying oh yeah, she's fine.
Yeah, she's fine.
So I think that's justprejudice and ignorance.
I don't know any other way tocategorize that.
So they said she was mentallycompetent and she was executed.
(18:27):
She told them on the way to behung that her death would not
relieve the children of theirillness.
Now she was.
She was trying to tell them.
Courtney (18:38):
I think was this isn't how to fix it, and she didn't
do it.
She's like I'm not connected tothis.
Mom (18:43):
And even Mather wrote after that he believes that she was
in league with someone else andthat he said right in his
writings he did say that hethought there was someone she
was in league with and he evensaid that when she was executed
that the children would not getany better.
So I'm wondering if he wastrying to kind of cover his
(19:03):
tracks.
Maybe I don't know.
Anyway, so she dies November 1818, 1688.
They hung her in what is nowthe south end neighborhood, uh,
on the current site of the holycross cathedral, which to me is
good for you, and I mean atleast you're on.
They built the cathedral only,uh, I googled it, john, 0.2
(19:27):
miles from your neighborhood.
Johnathan (19:29):
Yep, I live right around the corner from the Roman
Catholic Cathedral.
Mom (19:32):
Yeah, you can see it, almost see it from your front
door.
Yeah, so they said she was hungthere.
A lot of people want to believeshe was hung on the elm.
That was in.
Johnathan (19:44):
The hanging tree on the common.
Mom (19:45):
Yeah, but they said that probably wasn't where it
happened.
She was the last person thatwas executed for witchcraft, but
just in researching this, Ifound there were thousands of
people that were buried on thecommon, which just totally
creeps me out.
They had mass graves, they hadindigenous people.
The Puritans were killing theQuakers.
(20:06):
The Puritans were just a realissue, you know but one thing I
wanted to mention.
Johnathan (20:13):
I mentioned this before.
We were um talking offlineabout your podcast, uh topic, um
and um, and I told you howinteresting I thought history of
washington street, um, which isthe, the main artery that takes
you from basically downtownBoston with the common straight
(20:35):
out to Roxbury is, and along theway that, where the Roman
Catholic cathedral is and that'swhere we're not just the your
person would have been hanged,but also traitors and pirates
and other people accused ofwitchcraft.
(20:56):
Tons of people would have beenhanged out there.
Yeah, because when we look atthe map of Boston, the majority
of it is filled in land from the19th century, including the
South End.
Mom (21:05):
Yeah.
Johnathan (21:06):
But basically Boston was technically a peninsula, but
more like a tiny island, whichis today's Boston Common, a
little bit of Beacon Hill, alittle bit of downtown, a little
bit of the North End and WestEnd, and then this very skinny
land bridge which is modern dayWashington Street, which would
have basically taken you frommodern downtown Boston straight
(21:30):
out to Roxbury, with water andswamp on either side.
So, very close to the RomanCatholic Cathedral is an
intersection, probably just ablock or two up closer to
downtown, called the Boston Neck, and that's where the city gate
would have been for Boston.
So she would have been hanged,just like many other people
(21:52):
would have been hanged outsideof the gate, but basically along
the only main highway and thena few blocks further walking
away from downtown Bostontowards Roxbury.
On Washington Street is a veryold cemetery.
Most graves aren't marked, andit would have been a place for
the undesirable people who hadbeen hanged outside the city
(22:14):
walls to be buried as well.
There's a lot of reallyinteresting history about why
modern-day Washington Street isso important.
Hannah (22:23):
Is there a monument or a plaque or something, for her at
least?
Mom (22:26):
They actually had a goodie glove every day or something,
whatever it was in Boston, tokind of say hmm guess what?
Oops, sorry, you made a mistake.
Hannah (22:37):
Kind of what Salem did for all the witches
quote-unquote that were hung inSalem they gave them.
Johnathan (22:43):
Yes, I wonder if there's anything in the
cathedral.
Mom (22:46):
I don't know, that would be a good spot.
Johnathan (22:48):
Yeah, because I mean she's almost a martyr when you
think about it.
That would be a good spot.
Yeah, because I mean she'salmost a martyr when you think
about it.
Mom (22:52):
Yeah, I mean she was, and I think they realized that 300
years later.
Yeah, we made a mistake, youknow, but we really have to
understand how strong thePuritan connection to Boston was
.
I mean, a lot of them werethere.
They had no religious toleranceat all.
(23:13):
The Quakers.
The king finally reached out tothem and said stop executing
Quakers.
You got to stop because theQuakers were very steadfast.
Hannah (23:21):
They're very peaceful people, the Quakers.
Mom (23:24):
But they're also very steadfast in their beliefs.
So they were told not to comeinto Boston proper.
They were cut off an ear.
The second time they were cutoff another ear and then the
third time they would executethem.
There were indigenous peoplethat they killed.
They really had no tolerancefor anybody that wasn't a
Puritan.
Hannah (23:41):
Was it the Puritan that believed in predestination for
salvation?
Johnathan (23:45):
I think that's right, because who's the guy that's?
Hannah (23:47):
buried.
Okay, yeah, there's a guythat's buried up in Northampton
buried.
Mom (23:52):
Okay, yeah, there's a guy that's buried up in northampton.
Oh, I know you're talking about?
Johnathan (23:55):
I mean now we're getting into the 1700s.
Hannah (23:56):
I know, but in the hands of an angry god yeah yeah, that
was his famous I rememberlearning that with pastor graham
did you go on that field tripum no, we didn't go to
northampton maybe I'm sodomgomorrah yeah, bring a little
christian glass too.
Surprise I'm still gay johnny,we wouldn't want you any other
(24:22):
way.
Mom (24:23):
Good live your truth, baby, live your truth.
So anyways, her poor daughtermary has a.
Hannah (24:31):
Well, they probably made her watch too.
Mom (24:34):
Yeah, yeah she had a total breakdown.
There were a lot of people thatbooed her during the execution,
but there was one person thatsaid this was absolutely
ridiculous.
This woman did nothing but bewho she was and said you killed
somebody.
But here we go.
So this is after.
I think this is where it getsinteresting.
(24:55):
I feel bad for this woman, nodoubt, but this is where it gets
interesting.
So Cotton Mather has these fourof six children right that are
not getting better.
So he takes the oldest daughterinto his house to live with him
so that he can pray and fast.
And this happened at PendleWitch Trials.
This happened in the SalemWitch Trials, where someone
(25:19):
would take one of the kids in.
It was almost like they werecoaching them and this girl was
not getting better.
He was just not getting better.
Hannah (25:26):
This is the bratty 13-year-old.
Mom (25:28):
This is a bratty 13-year-old.
Hannah (25:30):
Martha.
Mom (25:34):
Right, yeah, yeah.
So anyways, the younger threechildren to get martha out of
the house.
Younger children go back tonormal.
Hmm, interesting surprise.
And the eldest son, who wasprobably august 15, 16 at the
time, and the baby neverimpacted at all.
There is a report where shetries to throw herself into the
fire and they were saying it wasdemons.
And I'm going no, that's just aguilty conscience, right?
(25:55):
But Cotten has some problems,and this is the other part of
the story is that he's awell-educated Puritan.
He actually was admitted toHarvard.
Now, harvard's not the Harvardwe know.
Now Harvard was a seminary.
It was, you know, it's where.
The Harvard we know now Harvardwas a seminary.
Hannah (26:12):
It was Only men too right.
Mom (26:15):
Only men, only Puritans.
Very, very different than theuniversity that's just so
well-known right now.
Hannah (26:21):
It's not the Gilmore Girls Harvard.
Mom (26:24):
He goes to Harvard and he's there for a couple months.
He's so badly bullied he goeshome, he runs home and he tries
it again.
But he's so badly bullied hegoes home, he runs home when,
where I know?
And he tries it again.
But he was awfully young, at 11, but it had a lot to do with
his father's position with theschool.
So I have a quote and here I amquoting, by his peers and they
(26:46):
said that he was aggressive,vain and a genius.
He had over 400 publishedwritings.
He also competed with hisfather.
He never could quite live up tohis father's reputation.
His father's name is IncreaseMather.
So you know the Puritans, theyhave these great names, like
(27:07):
when you're born, they kind ofname you like.
You know, like like she could belike God's grace every day, you
know.
But that would be her firstname.
So his father's name wasincreased he's Cotton, which was
his grandfather's name on hison his mother's side.
That's how he became CottonMather.
(27:28):
How he became Cotton MatherBecause he has so many issues
and because he also thatreligious zeal.
It kind of was like a lethalcombination.
You know he came from a veryprestigious Boston family.
He did have a speech defectwhich caused him to stutter and
could be part of the reason hewas bullied when he first went
(27:48):
to school.
He did return to Harvard andgot his BA and MA.
He was very young.
His father was the Harvardpresident then, so they probably
had some insulation from thebullying.
It did say he lived in hisfather's shadow.
They did have a following outduring the Salem witch trials.
His father didn't care for theway that Cotton was, I don't
(28:11):
know writing about it orsomething, but they did have.
They are actually both buriedin the Cobbs Hill Cemetery.
They're both there.
They have a family plot therethat we can see.
But I just think it was like theperfect storm of some really
bad things happening when thispoor woman who escaped Ireland
(28:33):
that came back from Barbados,thought she was coming to the
new world for opportunity, andjust because they didn't
understand how she was or didn'tspeak her language, she was
executed.
And then you've got Kant Mather.
You've got someone who's gotsome real parental issues, very
well-educated, strong Bostonfamily, and then writing,
(28:55):
writing about it, writing aboutit and then getting involved in
the Salem Witch Trials.
So I think they thought he wasreally brilliant for a while.
But they said his reputationhas really taken a hit over the
last decades.
People are blaming him for alot, but he really was not that
involved with the Salem witchtrials.
But he's definitely here.
He is handling interrogations,he's handling misinformation and
(29:20):
, you know, taking a 13-year-oldgirl to live in his house after
to, you know, to pray and fastover her.
Johnathan (29:28):
A little weird.
Mom (29:29):
Yeah, a little strange, a little strange Kind of to prove
his point, but then in hiswriting, kind of vindicating
himself.
It's just a really sad storyall the way around.
But Salem, witch Trials, we'vegot women that are single,
mostly widowed or elderly, whohave nobody to protect them, who
(29:49):
are misunderstood, who may ormay not have some healing.
Again, language barrier, just areal issue of misogyny,
prejudice and religious zealthat just still exists today.
Let's face it, it happens allover the world.
So that's the story of Goody,mrs Ann Glover.
Thank you, that was good.
So we're going to go to Bostonand we're going to walk around
(30:11):
the comic.
So that's the story of Goody,mrs Ann Glover.
Thank you that was good.
Courtney (30:12):
Thanks, Mom.
Mom (30:13):
So we're going to go to Boston and we're going to walk
around the comic, so there aresome memorials to some of the
people that are buried there.
I'd like to go back and look atit in terms of that and not
almost treating it like it is acemetery as opposed to being
just a green space, becauseevery time tea they were always
they were finding bones andbodies and stuff down there when
(30:34):
they were putting the tea in.
Johnathan (30:37):
And there were a lot of memorials, like there's a
memorial to, um, ann Hutchinson,um, on the grounds of the state
Capitol building, um, butthere's a lot of memorials up
there.
We made a lot of mistakes.
Mom (30:50):
Yeah, isn't the Ann Hutchinson one like white in
front of the Capitol?
Yeah, yeah Well that's great.
Hannah (30:56):
Thank you, mom, for researching and sharing Love.
To Thank you for having me backagain.
Anybody else have questions?
Comments concerns I got nothing.
Courtney (31:05):
I was going to say did you read the book, which is
when you did yours?
Yes, is when you did your yes.
I want to say ann glover wasmentioned briefly in that book
because as she was talking, I'mlike, okay, I've definitely read
, not as in detail as what lynnhad just no but her name before
yeah, there was definitely likea quick like oh, we're going to
salem, so we're just gonna likeskirt past this thing that
happened also very quickly.
Hannah (31:25):
I think it was with those um, when they talked about
wells main with the nativeamerican tax and everything.
It was like the backgroundinformation.
Courtney (31:33):
There was one she had said, Martha, that I was like,
wait a second.
No, this definitely rings abell.
Okay, I'm glad that I'm notcrazy.
Hannah (31:38):
No, you're not, that was there.
Yeah, absolutely, I thought thesame thing.
Mom (31:42):
I think she's very well known in the Boston area.
Yeah, but if you're not fromthis part of the country you may
not be as well acquainted within.
Courtney (31:50):
Well, that's the truth for witches in general.
I find I have friends who livelike Colorado or in other states
and they didn't learn aboutwitches the same way that we do
out here Like we kind of I feellike it's just like oh,
everybody knows about the SalemWitch Trials and people do as
far as like Hocus.
Johnathan (32:06):
Pocus and the Sanderson Sisters.
Courtney (32:08):
But they don't have the history and the background
of it, the way that we get inschools in Massachusetts.
Hannah (32:15):
And they have those misconstrued facts about witches
burning.
I know that they were hung.
Courtney (32:19):
Yes, Pizza man showed us that.
What was he nailing them tocrosses?
Is that what he said?
Hannah (32:25):
He was mixing some religions together.
Courtney (32:28):
He had some Jesus stuff and witches stuff all
backwards.
It's Rhode Island for you.
Hannah (32:32):
Well, thank you everybody, and thank you
Wanderers.
Happy New Year again.
Happy.
Courtney (32:36):
New.
Hannah (32:36):
Year, and we'll catch you next time.
Courtney (32:38):
Bye, bye, wanderers.
Hannah (32:40):
Thanks for listening today.
Wicked Wanderings is hosted byme, hannah, and co-hosted by me,
courtney, and it's by RobFitzpatrick.
Music by Sasha M.
If you enjoyed today's episode,don't forget to leave a rating
and review, and be sure tofollow on all socials.
You can find the links down inthe show notes.
If you're looking for somereally cozy t-shirts or hoodies,
head over to the merch store.
(33:02):
Thank you for being a part ofthe Wicked Wanderings community.
We appreciate every one of you.
Stay curious, keep exploringand always remember to keep on
wandering, thank you.
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