March 26, 2025 • 36 mins
Cousin Mark joins us to unravel the disturbing case of Peter Sutcliffe, known as the Yorkshire Ripper, a British serial killer who terrorized northern England in the 1970s.
• Born in 1946 with a difficult start as a premature baby with a stutter
• Father's abuse toward his mother created a foundation for his hatred of women
• Motorcycle accident resulted in traumatic brain injury before his crimes began
• Claimed to hear voices from gravestones while working as a gravedigger
• First killed in 1975, developing a pattern of hammer attacks and stabbings
• Targeted primarily prostitutes but eventually attacked other women
• Evaded capture despite being interviewed nine times during the investigation
• Left evidence including size 7 footprints at multiple crime scenes
• Escalated to extreme post-mortem mutilation in some cases
• Investigation became so massive the police station needed structural reinforcement to hold all the paperwork
Join us for part two where we'll continue exploring this chilling case and how Sutcliffe was finally caught.
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Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Courtney (00:00):
I can only imagine, rob, do your worst, because that
was 26 minutes, I believe, ofHannah and Courtney trying
desperately to keep Mark on theline and figure out the
switchboard.
Another reminder why, if youare trying to start a podcast,
you desperately need a producerlike good old Rob.
You really do, you really do.
Hannah (00:19):
And I'm so sorry because of Mark.
Oh, my God, that's okay, mostpeople would be like fuck this,
shit, shit, I'm gonna go do whatI was doing exactly but we are
happy to have you here and weare excited to hear about.
Courtney (00:32):
Whatever it is that you wanted to tell us about,
okay.
Hannah (00:47):
Hi, I'm Hannah and I'm Courtney.
Join us as we delve into truecrime, paranormal encounters and
all things spooky.
Courtney (00:53):
Grab your flashlight and get ready to wander into the
darkness with us.
Hannah (01:00):
This is Wicked Wanderings, Hi Courtney, Hi
Hannah, and we have a specialguest Drumroll.
(01:23):
Please, Cousin Mark In theflesh sort of In the virtual
flesh.
Cousin Marc (01:31):
I am always happy to be here hanging out with you,
beautiful ladies.
Hannah (01:35):
Oh shucks.
Courtney (01:36):
Don't give us airs.
He's really laying it on us now, today, guys.
Cousin Marc (01:40):
Sitting here with my cool Wicked Wanderings douche
canoe t-shirt that I have.
Hannah (01:45):
Wicked cozy tees.
I mean, honestly, I just wantto like tear up because, like
Court, I know that you've been awanderer forever and you came
to this podcast willing and ableto do it with me.
But, like from the beginning,like that shirt, I'm just like,
oh my God, that's like thebeginnings of Wicked Wanderings.
And just like, oh God, it'slike the beginnings of Wicked
Wanderings.
(02:05):
And just like, oh, just givesme the tears.
So, cousin, mark, I justappreciate your support to us.
Really, I do, really do.
Cousin Marc (02:12):
Absolutely.
I love it All right.
So I have today a very niceyoung man called Peter.
Hannah (02:22):
Sutcliffe Wait, wait, a very nice young man.
That's usually not how we startany podcast.
Cousin Marc (02:29):
Better known as the Yorkshire Ripper.
Courtney (02:32):
Oh, okay, so nice?
Maybe not so much, but I guess,like Bundy was described as
nice, right?
Oh, don't get Bundy involved.
Mark the record, don't do it.
One minute and 54 seconds inand Courtney brought up Bundy
involved.
Cousin Marc (02:46):
Mark the record, don't do it One minute and 54
seconds in and Courtney broughtup Bundy, not Hannah, oh boy.
So Peter Sutcliffe, he was apiece of work, that one.
He was born in 46.
You know, had two normalparents, you know, as they went
along and he was born premature.
Oh, so he was a small baby whenhe was born, had some, you know
(03:07):
, some of those disabilities ofbeing premature, small.
He had a stutter and thingslike that, which you know made
him a target for bullies inschool.
Going through school most ofthe time he just isolated
himself and he'd stand on theside while all the kids were
playing and whatnot and justkind of be alone or on his own,
(03:30):
but two normal parents, you said.
Well as normal as you can get.
Courtney (03:34):
I mean it was the 40s and 50s, so true, I suppose a
little amount of trauma,naturally, is sprinkled in there
.
Cousin Marc (03:44):
Well, his father didn't beat his mother.
Courtney (03:46):
Okay, yep, there's the trauma.
There's the trauma we'retalking about.
Cousin Marc (03:50):
He didn't beat the kids, it was just mom.
Courtney (03:54):
Okay, I mean not great , but still yeah, Okay.
Cousin Marc (03:57):
Yeah, a little better.
But you know, as a smallerchild and having some
difficulties, you know hismother doted on him.
She was like he's the greatestthing in the world.
You know my baby boy andwhatnot.
As she goes along through lifeshe doesn't have the common
stereotypes that a serial killerwould have Interesting.
We didn't have trouble withwetting the bed or fires or
(04:20):
cruelty to animals.
Courtney (04:22):
Right Kind of all those classic things that we've
heard about so many times whenyou're reading about serial
killers.
Cousin Marc (04:27):
Yeah, he went to college.
Courtney (04:30):
Okay, so he's educated .
Cousin Marc (04:31):
Yeah, and he had a girlfriend from high school and
she also went off to collegeDuring the week.
He didn't get to see her.
He only got to see her on theweekend.
Then there were times whereduring the weekend she wouldn't
come home so he wouldn't be ableto see her.
Well, come to find out she wascheating on him.
He was beside himself.
(04:53):
So he went up there andconfronted her while she was
with the other guy that she waswith.
Nothing ever happened from it,but they kind of worked things
out and stayed together.
Courtney (05:04):
Okay, so they did ultimately end up staying
together.
I felt like I was like here'sthe dark turn.
He's going to say that he, thathe already killed this woman,
or that he killed the other guy.
Okay, you got me on my toes.
Cousin Marc (05:16):
Yeah, so he's getting older.
He takes a job at a graveyard.
Courtney (05:21):
Oh, now it's getting dark, okay.
Cousin Marc (05:26):
So, while he's working at the grave, he just
jumped down into one of thegraves and decided to take a nap
after digging the hole.
Courtney (05:31):
Not something I would do.
I'm sorry, take a nap.
Cousin Marc (05:34):
Take a nap after digging.
He was tired In the grave.
Courtney (05:39):
Without the body, though.
Cousin Marc (05:42):
Yes, without the body.
Courtney (05:43):
I guess it's only a hole, then you know what I'm
saying it's only a hole.
Then you know what I'm sayingit's it's.
It's a hole that will be agrave soon, but it's only a hole
.
Cousin Marc (05:50):
Exactly, I mean.
Hannah (05:51):
I guess I would be tired too.
Cousin Marc (05:55):
Yeah, it's kind of so.
As he's sitting in this hole,he starts hearing voices.
Hannah (06:02):
Okay.
Cousin Marc (06:03):
Imagine that.
Hannah (06:04):
Yep, yep, yep.
Cousin Marc (06:06):
Imagine that you hear voices.
He comes out of it and thegravestone is talking to him.
Oh, that's where the voice iscoming from from one of the
gravestones.
Courtney (06:15):
So the stone itself, not the person.
Cousin Marc (06:17):
It was talking yeah , all right.
Courtney (06:19):
Okay.
Cousin Marc (06:21):
Kind of like the son of Sam David Berkowitz, His
neighbor's dog, he said, wastalking to him.
Courtney (06:26):
I mean, at least a dog is like an actual living being,
though right, I mean like agravestone, is a little bit
different.
Cousin Marc (06:32):
Well see, here's the thing with that.
He was devotely Catholic, yeah,so he says that's got to be God
talking to me.
Courtney (06:41):
Yes, Of course god in the form of gravestone yeah,
that checks out.
Cousin Marc (06:46):
I don't know why you wouldn't think that exactly.
Hannah (06:47):
I have to say I'm sorry, like growing up very religious,
there were so many men, neverwomen, really.
Uh, they were like oh god, talkto me, I'm like.
Well, why you like?
Like?
Courtney (07:01):
why of all the human beings right you you.
Cousin Marc (07:07):
I mean you say that , anna, because he said that God
was talking to him personally,if it wasn't just him personally
then everybody else would hearGod talking to them.
Hannah (07:24):
God was focusing on him.
I just feel like the lastcouple years, the relationship
okay, this might be gettingpersonal, but the relationship I
have with god, right is just it, just it boggles my mind with
the amount of people that are inthe world, right, why them?
Courtney (07:44):
I don't think people are in that position like,
especially if you're laying ingraves to sleep.
I don't think you're in theposition to be like.
You know what this magical manhas chosen me and why I think
we're just really stuck on the.
Hannah (07:56):
He chose me I just I I don't know, like this supposed
really big being right, and ifyou're not gonna believe in the
big bang or whatever, like kudosto you, like whatever you
believe in, why would theychoose you?
Yeah, but also struggle withthat.
Cousin Marc (08:17):
Yeah, I don't know but also why would god let all
these bad things happen?
Hannah (08:23):
yeah, I guess that's where people's different gods
come into play, because we hearthat a lot with different serial
killers or people who areaggressive towards other people,
and I think that's a very goodpoint Because, mark, being a
person that grew up in thechurch, and you might appreciate
this as well why, if you have aGod that is all-knowing,
(08:44):
all-being, why would they allowthis all stuff to happen Like I
get that Encourage?
Courtney (08:48):
it, not even just allow it to happen.
Why would they encourage it?
I get that.
Hannah (08:51):
I get that.
Why would you allow thesepeople to be anyways?
Cousin Marc (08:56):
Well, everyone says that God created man in his own
image.
Okay, man in his own image.
So a psychopath you know aserial killer says well, if he
made us in his own image, hemust be just like me psychotic,
unfeeling.
But you talk to other peopleand they're like oh no, god's
good, god made us perfect Thingslike that.
(09:19):
But it all depends on how thebrain processes all the
information.
Hannah (09:23):
Which raises a lot of questions, right Like it's just.
Cousin Marc (09:26):
Exactly.
Hannah (09:27):
It's interesting?
It certainly is interesting.
Courtney (09:30):
Yeah, sorry we derailed you.
Yes, please keep going.
Cousin Marc (09:32):
No, that's OK.
That's OK because you just mademe remember that before his and
I'm upset that I missed this,but before he got the job as a
gravedigger, he was also in amotorcycle accident and had a
traumatic brain injury.
Courtney (09:48):
And that will really throw a lot of things for a loop
.
A traumatic brain injury reallyputs you through some stuff.
Yes, it does, yes, it does so,then, it's like are you
hallucinating or are you havinga psychotic break?
Or is it the traumatic braininjury?
There's a lot more to playthere.
Hannah (10:04):
And what are the years for this?
Cousin Marc (10:06):
again, I'm sorry he was born in 46, so we're not
know a lot they did not know alot, I really consider true
brain injuries to be thatserious yeah nope, rub some dirt
on it and get back out rightright yeah, so sad.
So he has the motorcycleaccident.
He has his father beating hismother.
(10:28):
He has his girlfriend cheatingon him.
He also has his father figureout that his mother was cheating
on his father.
Courtney (10:36):
Ah, ok, and I'm sure that's a really negative image
towards women for him.
They're all cheaters.
Cousin Marc (10:41):
Well, his father found out where the mother was
meeting her man.
Oh boy, Peter and his fatherwent to the hotel room and
caught them.
Courtney (10:51):
So he brought his son with him to do that.
Cousin Marc (10:53):
They brought him with them and humiliated her in
front of everybody, and he endsup grabbing the purse from her
and pulls out the lingerie thatshe was going to wear while she
was there.
Courtney (11:08):
Oh, yikes, yikes, yikes.
Cousin Marc (11:09):
So this whole thing is that he's now seeing women
as liars.
Courtney (11:14):
Right, exactly.
Cousin Marc (11:16):
After he found that his girlfriend had cheated on
him, he was going to go cheat onher with a prostitute.
Courtney (11:22):
Oh, and here we go, bringing the prostitute.
I feel like serial killers at acertain point are very similar
the lying, and cheatingprostitutes.
Cousin Marc (11:30):
He goes to have sex with her and she just walks in,
strips down and says, all right, let's go, and he's like wait a
minute.
That's not how this is supposedto go.
Hannah (11:38):
It is when you're paying by the hour.
Oh my God.
Cousin Marc (11:46):
The first time with a prostitute and he's going
wait a minute.
I thought there was going to besome.
You know something romantic,you know some foreplay or
something?
Hannah (11:50):
definitely not.
You pay extra for that.
Cousin Marc (11:51):
Yeah, exactly so he's like all right, I can't do
this, you know, let's call itquits.
And he had given her a 10 poundnote which back then at that
time, was like 50 bucks now.
Courtney (12:05):
So he just sent her on her way.
He was like thanks, but nothanks.
Cousin Marc (12:08):
Oh no, he said you were supposed to give me change
when we got here.
You haven't done that becauseit was supposed to be five
dollars.
And she says, well, bring meback to where I was and I'll
give it back to you.
So he drives her back to thegarage where he picked her up
and she walks in and he's outthere in the car for like 10
minutes and she doesn't comeback out.
Naturally, what the hell'sgoing on?
(12:30):
So next thing, you know, thisguy comes out and tells him to
you know, fuck off, she's notdoing anything Right.
So now he's got a bad taste inhis mouth.
Right Again with a prostituteand liars.
Courtney (12:43):
Yeah, that reinforces again women are liars she said
exactly I'm going to get thechange and come back.
And obviously her pimp was likeno, we're not doing that.
Cousin Marc (12:56):
So between then his first murder he had attacked a
few women, but they survivedbecause he didn't actually know
what he was doing yet.
So there were a few attacks,but no one died.
No one could identify him oranything.
Courtney (13:06):
When you say attack, do you mean like physical attack
, or is it like a sexual attackand a physical attack?
Cousin Marc (13:11):
No, just physical.
The police didn't know aboutthe attacks until later because
you know, nobody had comeforward, because it was really
nothing to come forward about,because they didn't know who it
was.
Courtney (13:22):
And I didn't imagine it was going to be sexual in
nature, just because it doesn'tseem like if he's the kind of
guy who couldn't have sex with aprostitute who was standing
right there in front of him,he's probably wouldn't be the
kind of guy who could do it Verygood point For aggression and
things like that.
Yeah.
Hannah (13:36):
But I also think back then, like it was different when
you're reporting these types ofattacks?
Courtney (13:41):
Yes, yeah, especially women who are not believed.
Cousin Marc (13:44):
Right?
Well, especially at that time,and especially being a
prostitute, you know they don'twant to bring attention to
themselves if they don't have toRight.
Hannah (13:54):
If you're going to report a sexual attack, it's
like, well, that's your job,well, but they weren't sexual,
they were just physical attacks.
Courtney (14:01):
But I also feel like at that time women, they were
just physical attacks.
But I also feel like at thattime women were supposed to be
seen, not heard, Objectified.
They were objectified.
Hannah (14:07):
Yeah, absolutely.
Cousin Marc (14:08):
Yeah, but at this time there were a lot of mills
in the area for the industrialage that were shutting down
because the war's over and theydidn't need all those things
anymore.
So people were having troublemaking money because the jobs
were disappearing.
Courtney (14:32):
So that's why a lot of women started to turn to
prostitution, because it was aquick way to make money.
Yeah, work what your mama gaveyou Exactly so.
Cousin Marc (14:39):
I mean we talked about this in the Gary Ridgway
episode where you know motherswould look at their kids and say
, why are you being a prostitute?
You can come work at the diner.
It's like I'm going to makelike half the money at the diner
in three hours as a prostitute.
Hannah (14:55):
Absolutely, 100%.
Agree with that, absolutely Allright.
Cousin Marc (14:58):
So we've established that Peter Sutcliffe
does not like women.
Established that PeterSutcliffe does not like women.
You know, his parents didn'treally do much to dissuade him
from disliking women.
So we now come to October of 75, where he takes his first life.
There's a mother of four namedWilma McCann, and she was only
(15:19):
killed 150 yards from her house.
Yikes, you know, he came upfrom behind her, hit her in the
head with a ball-peen hammerrepeatedly.
Courtney (15:30):
As if more than once was necessary.
Yeah, stabbed her.
Cousin Marc (15:35):
Well, see, this is where the previous attack where
people survived that he startedto realize that he needed to be
more aggressive when he did this.
Courtney (15:47):
So was that a pattern of his Showing up behind
somebody and beating Okay?
Okay, that makes sense.
Cousin Marc (15:51):
And hitting them with a hammer.
Courtney (15:53):
Specifically, he had a lucky hitting hammer.
Cousin Marc (15:57):
So he ended up stabbing her with a screwdriver
After he hit her with the hammer.
Poor woman.
When the police started toinvestigate this, they
associated it with her being aprostitute, because of the area
that they were in, which is ahigh area of prostitution Was
(16:18):
she a prostitute?
Courtney (16:19):
or did they just mistake her for a prostitute?
Cousin Marc (16:22):
No, she was a prostitute.
Okay, all right.
And when the news got a hold ofit, the news started calling
them good time girls.
Oh I hate that Instead ofprostitutes.
Courtney (16:32):
I hate that, that's not a cute way to say prostitute
.
Stop that shit yeah.
Cousin Marc (16:37):
So that was in October of 75.
, january of 76, he ended uptaking out Emily Jackson, who
was a mother of two okay, sowe're seeing mothers.
Courtney (16:50):
We're seeing mothers as a trend so far it is.
Cousin Marc (16:53):
Yeah, he was also staged now mothers and
prostitutes.
It just so happened to be theywere both so with Emily she was
staged, so when whoever foundher, her legs were spread open
and made for a shock value.
For when someone found her, shewas stabbed 56 times with a
(17:15):
screwdriver and also had thecircular wounds on the back of
the head of a ball-peen hammer.
Courtney (17:23):
So the same exact spikes.
Cousin Marc (17:26):
This one was also stepped on, so they were able to
retrieve a footprint from herthigh, which they ended up
determining was a size 7.
Hannah (17:38):
Oh, so he's a small man.
Cousin Marc (17:40):
He's a small man.
Yes, yes, has the small mansyndrome.
Courtney (17:46):
Right, and that kind of narrows it down.
Cousin Marc (17:51):
I'm assuming, as a search too, because you're like
OK, we're looking for somebodywith a somewhat specific size,
Very tiny Seven is actually kindof small for a woman's foot too
.
Courtney (17:57):
Yes, Absolutely.
Cousin Marc (17:59):
Yeah.
So we now move to April of 77,over a year later, and she ends
up killing 28-year-old IreneRichardson.
She was also struck in the headand stabbed repeatedly, so she
has the same MO of killing, andwhat the police determined was
that all three were not sexuallyassaulted.
So that's starting to remindpeople of another famous killer
(18:23):
in England.
You may know him.
Wait, who?
Any guesses?
Hannah (18:28):
I don't know who could it be?
Cousin Marc (18:33):
That would be our good old friend Jack.
Courtney (18:37):
Jack the Ripper.
Cousin Marc (18:39):
And since he was from the Yorkshire County, they
dubbed him the Yorkshire Ripper.
Hannah (18:45):
So, knowing what we know about Jack Ripper now, with who
he is, right They've decidedwho he is, which is kind of sad
about.
Courtney (18:56):
We've talked about that a few times where it's like
lost its luster because of that.
Cousin Marc (18:59):
Which is so sad.
Courtney (19:00):
I have to preface by saying like we are so sorry for
the victim's families becauseobviously, like they all, should
get their justice.
But I do think the lore pieceof it, like it almost seemed
like this person was too big tobe real, like you weren't human
you were something else and Iwas really, I was really hoping
that HH Holmes had something todo with it and whatever.
Cousin Marc (19:23):
It would have been an interesting twist.
Hannah (19:25):
Yes, it really would have.
It really would have.
Knowing who Jack the Ripper issupposedly now.
Does that lose anything for thecase you have for us right now?
Cousin Marc (19:39):
I'm sorry, does it what?
Hannah (19:40):
Lose anything like any luster for what you have for the
case now.
Cousin Marc (19:44):
No, of course not Okay.
Hannah (19:45):
Does it prove anything?
Cousin Marc (19:46):
Because everybody everybody's their own, their own
individual.
Hannah (19:50):
Yeah.
Cousin Marc (19:50):
He's escalated a little bit quicker now and he's
on to June of 77, where heattacks 33 year old Patricia
Atkins.
She was the first one that heactually killed at home In her
home correct.
Yeah, because she was aprostitute and he made it to her
(20:13):
place for their transactionwhen he killed her.
Courtney (20:18):
That's a great way to put that, mark.
I love how you were like forher transaction.
Cousin Marc (20:24):
Well, it's a business.
It is a business.
Courtney (20:27):
Respect the hustle.
Cousin Marc (20:30):
As he's in there and he kills her, he ends up
tracking footprints through thehouse Again.
So now they have footprints totest against other footprints.
So at this time the police arenarrowing it down to the dislike
of prostitutes and the media isputting out there that if
you're not a prostitute thenyou're safe.
Big mistake, because in thesame month he ends up murdering
(20:53):
16-year-old Jane McDonald.
Courtney (20:56):
Who was clearly not a prostitute.
Cousin Marc (20:59):
Clearly not a prostitute.
So was it a mistake?
Or is he just angry at womenand not prostitutes?
Courtney (21:07):
Or maybe it was an opportunity thing.
I know we've definitely talkedabout that for other cases too,
like absolutely Even with theOCCK, like you know, jill
Robinson's case.
I think about that where it waslike was she, why was she shot,
and everybody else wasstrangled.
Was it one of those thingswhere it was like oh shit, she's
not dead?
Is it?
Somebody saw something and theyshouldn't have seen something,
(21:28):
or that urge just got too highand there wasn't another
opportunity.
Cousin Marc (21:31):
So at this point the public's outraged because
the investigation is not goingthe way it should and they
haven't found any suspects yet.
So the head of the policedecide to bring in new
investigators to re-jump theinvestigation.
But at this time, you know,there's no DNA because he hasn't
done anything to leave any DNA.
(21:52):
All there was for them at thistime is to do blood grouping,
which doesn't really narrow downyour search that much.
Courtney (21:59):
Right.
Probably the size seven shoenarrows it down more.
Cousin Marc (22:02):
Yeah, we got that.
So now we're in the July of 77where he attacked Maureen Long,
but she survived.
Courtney (22:11):
Oh, no, not again.
Cousin Marc (22:13):
He's a couple.
There's a couple in his murderspree that end up surviving.
She was hit in the head likethe rest, but apparently she was
able to survive it Shit.
Courtney (22:26):
And that makes me wonder.
The head injuries?
Well, also well, but like ifhe's normally, like the other
women.
He hit in the head and then hestabbed them, so he didn't stab
her.
But for what reason did hereally think that the blow to
the head had done the job?
Did somebody startle him?
Did he not have enough?
Time what it was, he didn'treally want to kill her.
You know I got a lot ofquestions about this.
Cousin Marc (22:47):
That's a good question to have.
I don't remember if they saidanything about him being spooked
at the time, to not finish, butthey did have a witness now
Right and they had an officerthere pose as her boyfriend
chaperone, whatever you want tocall it.
They went back to the club thathe picked her up at to see if
(23:11):
he showed back up, and he neverdid.
Courtney (23:13):
So he's smart.
At least he knew that.
He must have known she survived.
Cousin Marc (23:17):
Yeah, well, she also had some brain damage too
and couldn't remember much.
Courtney (23:22):
From the poor woman hits the head.
I'm sure, yeah, damn it.
Cousin Marc (23:38):
So at this point, after they've regrouped the
investigation, they had anincident room that they had over
270 people working on this case, and then we come to October 77
, where he kills 20-year-oldJean Jordan.
She was found nine days aftershe disappeared.
This one was a little differentfrom the rest of them, though,
because he must have thoughtdifferently after the last one
survived, because this one, herhair was burnt off, her face was
(23:58):
smashed oh God, her breastswere cut off.
Hannah (24:02):
I'm sorry her tits were what Cut off.
Cousin Marc (24:06):
He cut them off.
Courtney (24:07):
So he was really taking his hate out on women,
right?
Hannah (24:12):
do we know if this was post-mortem or not?
Cousin Marc (24:16):
not that I know well, after hitting her in the
head and smashing her face.
Courtney (24:21):
I'm sure the rest of it was just anger, yeah, and
that shows his character too,where it makes me think that he
didn't intend to leave the otherperson alive, and it was like
look at all this anger and rage.
I have pent up about how angryI am that the other one got away
.
Hannah (24:38):
Oh, my God.
Courtney (24:39):
Oh God, Because it's far more violent than the other
ones.
Hannah (24:42):
I mean, the other ones were violent.
The other ones were violent,but that one was fine.
Oh, that's insane.
Cousin Marc (24:47):
Well, that's the thing.
She was found in Manchester,which was a long way from
Yorkshire, but she hid her in ahedge and when she wasn't
discovered, he went back andmoved her.
Courtney (24:58):
He liked the attention .
Cousin Marc (24:59):
Yes.
Courtney (25:00):
Okay, so he's an attention guy.
Cousin Marc (25:02):
That's important to know.
It also looked like he waslooking for something and he
couldn't find it, and Alsolooked like he was looking for
something and he couldn't findit, and then he flashed the body
out of anger.
Courtney (25:12):
So a lot of that was postmortem OK.
So it was unclear if he waslike really upset about the
other person getting away orjust people not catching on and
giving him that like attentionand that credit maybe.
Cousin Marc (25:23):
Well, no, what happened with this was he had
given her a five-pound note.
Okay, okay, and apparently atthis time in England the
companies hand out pay packets,so all the money that's in the
packet has been analyzed and canbe traced, if need be.
Okay, so when he gave her thefive-pound note, he was going to
(25:49):
kill her and take it back.
We couldn't find it, which iswhat got him angry.
Courtney (25:55):
OK yeah, because that could have been tracked.
Cousin Marc (25:58):
Yeah.
Courtney (25:59):
OK, and that leads yeah.
Cousin Marc (26:02):
And that leads them to interviews of the males in
factories where the packet wouldhave been handed out.
And that's one of the things.
As this investigation went on,he was interviewed nine times.
God, that's insane.
And they never figured it out.
So it's very possible thatduring that he was one of the
(26:22):
people that were interviewedthroughout the factories.
Now we come to December of 77.
Here's another one thatsurvived.
That was Marilyn Moore.
She survived the factories.
Now we come to December of 77.
Here's another one thatsurvived.
That was Marilyn Moore.
She survived the attack.
But they did find tire tracksand those tire tracks matched
Irene Richardson's crime scene.
Oh, shit.
(26:43):
And Marilyn Moore was able togive a description.
So now they actually had aphoto to go by from her sitting
down with the artist.
So in February of 78, he endedup killing 18-year-old Helen
Richter.
She was found in a lumberyardby police dogs on a search
because they had gotten rumorsthat there was something out
(27:04):
there.
Gotten rumors that there wassomething out there, and she
again was murdered the same waywith the hammer blows and the
stabbings, ice pick andscrewdrivers and things like
that.
So the police managed to roundup a 30,000 pound reward for any
information leading to thecapture.
They also had so much paperworkin this incident room that they
(27:28):
had to reinforce the structureof the building with concrete to
make sure the floor didn'tcollapse.
Courtney (27:33):
Wow, that's a lot of paperwork.
Cousin Marc (27:35):
That's how they were talking millions of pieces
of paper, and they were gettingphone calls and tips nonstop.
We now move to March of 78,where he has taken 21-year-old
Yvonne Pearson.
So she was hidden a little morethan some of the other ones
were, because a passerby saw ahand sticking out of the garbage
(27:59):
pile that she was underneath.
So he was hiding them, buttrying to hide them so they
could still be found.
Courtney (28:07):
Right, like hiding in plain sight.
Cousin Marc (28:10):
Yeah.
Courtney (28:11):
Yeah.
Cousin Marc (28:12):
Well, that was like .
That was BTK Dennis Rader.
When nobody was reporting onthe murder that he had committed
, he was calling up newsstations and telling them that
they were going to find someonesomewhere.
Courtney (28:26):
Right Wanting that attention, when that attention
is the biggest component Because, if you think about it other
than I mean, some people getsatisfaction out of killing in
general.
I can't imagine it, but it istrue.
Other than the satisfaction ofkilling, what else is this
person getting out of killingthese women other than attention
?
Nothing, yeah, nothing, yeah,yeah, yeah.
Cousin Marc (28:44):
Nothing.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So Hannah will know BTK wasgetting upset because Bundy was
getting all this publicityJealousy.
No one knew anything about him.
So he had written a letter tothe news channel and it said how
many people do I have to killbefore you guys start taking me
seriously?
Courtney (29:03):
Apparently more yeah.
Cousin Marc (29:05):
No kidding.
Hannah (29:08):
Which is just terrible.
Courtney (29:09):
It's terrible.
Cousin Marc (29:10):
Yes, no kidding, which is just terrible.
It's terrible, yes, it is.
So we get to May of 78, wherehe kills 41-year-old Vera
Millward.
She was dragged out into thefield that she was found in
because what happened was hepretended to have car trouble
once he got her in the car, sothey went up to the front and
(29:31):
opened up the hood and, as heasked her to help him look as
she was looking, he hit her inthe head with a hammer.
Hannah (29:38):
That seemed to be like the mo yeah, a lot of these guys
like, yeah, I think I was inthe car and somebody said I'm
having some car trouble.
Courtney (29:46):
Figure it out yourself , buddy, I'm staying in the car.
And somebody said I'm havingsome car trouble.
I'd be like, figure it outyourself, buddy, I'm staying in
the car.
Hannah (29:48):
Or even if I had car trouble, I will figure it out
myself.
I'll just stay locked in thiscar.
I'm good, thank you.
Courtney (29:56):
Well, on that sad note , we're going to have to do a
two-parter for you guys, becauseHannah and I were reckless.
Cousin Mark was on topic.
Rob's gonna kill us, buteverybody should look forward to
a part two.
Cousin Marc (30:12):
Absolutely.
Courtney (30:13):
Sorry, cousin Mark, we can do a pick a card any card.
Pick a card any card.
Hannah (30:39):
Here we go.
I have the queen of hearts andit's theresa corley.
Uh, it's familiar really.
Yeah, on december 8th 1978 a 19year old girl was found
strangled in a ditch off routei-495 in bellingham.
She went missing from franklin.
If you have any information,please call 1-855-MA-SOLVE that
one sounds really familiar thepicture is very familiar.
Courtney (31:00):
Let me see yeah oh yeah, no, the picture is very,
very familiar, right, I'mwondering.
I definitely have read anarticle on her, but there's also
a couple of really big podcastepisodes about her, so that
could have been it too also canwe discuss what happened in?
Hannah (31:20):
what was it waterbury connect it?
Cousin Marc (31:23):
what happened there ?
Hannah (31:24):
there was a person that was held hostage for like 20
years.
Courtney (31:29):
Yikes, when did that come up?
Oh, was that the kid, thestepson?
Hannah (31:34):
Yes, yes and yes.
And he, he had like basicallyno water, no food, he was
malnourished and he set fire tothe house just so he could get
out.
I mean smart.
Cousin Marc (31:45):
Yeah, I remember hearing that.
Hannah (31:47):
Yeah so that yeah, so the stepmom is on trial, but she
got out on bail.
That's like what gets me onbail?
Well, they don't think she's aflight risk.
So Well, I guess the fatherdied a year ago.
So she's like, oh, it was allthe father's fault, but yeah but
like a year ago.
Courtney (32:05):
Why didn't he get let out?
Hannah (32:15):
Mm.
Hmm, oh, it was all thefather's fault, but yeah, but
like a year ago.
Courtney (32:17):
Why?
Hannah (32:17):
didn't he get let out?
Courtney (32:17):
yeah, but yeah he set fire with a piece of paper hand
sanitizer and a lighter.
I just looked it up.
Right, yeah, was it.
Was it waterbury?
Yeah, yep, yep.
She was arrested on wednesdayand charged with first degree
assault, second degreekidnapping, first degree
unlawful restraint, cruelty topersons and first degree
reckless endangerment.
What was?
Hannah (32:30):
disgusting about it is that they he was pulled out of
school when he was 11 and filedon the family and nothing was
done.
Courtney (32:39):
That's what's disgusting, like I do think is
is so like I'm just scrollingthe first article that I found,
obviously, and there's a quotefrom uh, the chief of waterbury
police, saying 30 years in lawenforcement and this is the
worst treatment of humanity thatI have ever witnessed yeah, so,
and they see some things too.
Hannah (32:58):
Yeah, they see things right but, like this family was
filed on and nothing was done,there was locks on the outside
of this door, like if you didany type of investigation.
Courtney (33:12):
Yeah, it's sick.
Cousin Marc (33:13):
Yeah, that's crazy, just as much as anybody.
Courtney (33:16):
the DCF system is broken oh yeah.
It's completely broken and Iknow that a lot of people feel
hindered by the fact that theyget involved, but it's like
their job is to get involved todetermine if there's a threat or
not.
Yeah, they really.
I've heard just so many caseswhere they don't get involved
and there's this bigger thinggoing on.
Cousin Marc (33:35):
It's really troubling yeah.
Courtney (33:38):
Thanks for joining us, cousin Mark.
We always love to have you,especially when we give you no
notice and we just blow up yourphones with a what you do.
I 100% just slid right intoMark's DMs and was like hi,
what's happening?
What you want to?
Cousin Marc (33:51):
do what's up, Marky Mark?
Courtney (33:54):
I called him Marky Mark, all right.
All right, we will see you guysnext time.
Goodbye, hannah, bye.
Hannah (34:04):
Thanks for listening today.
Wicked Wanderings is hosted byme Hannah and co-hosted by me
Courtney, and it's produced byRob Fitzpatrick music by Sasha M
.
If you enjoyed today's episode,don't forget to leave a rating
and review and be sure to followon all socials.
You can find the links down inthe show notes.
If you're looking for somereally cozy t-shirts or hoodies,
head over to the merch store.
(34:25):
Thank you for being a part ofthe Wicked Wanderings community.
We appreciate every one of you.
Stay curious, keep exploringand always remember to keep on
wandering.
Thank you.
I can only imagine, rob, do your worst, because that
was 26 minutes, I believe, ofHannah and Courtney trying
desperately to keep Mark on theline and figure out the
switchboard.
Another reminder why, if youare trying to start a podcast,
you desperately need a producerlike good old Rob.
You really do, you really do.
Hannah (00:19):
And I'm so sorry because of Mark.
Oh, my God, that's okay, mostpeople would be like fuck this,
shit, shit, I'm gonna go do whatI was doing exactly but we are
happy to have you here and weare excited to hear about.
Courtney (00:32):
Whatever it is that you wanted to tell us about,
okay.
Hannah (00:47):
Hi, I'm Hannah and I'm Courtney.
Join us as we delve into truecrime, paranormal encounters and
all things spooky.
Courtney (00:53):
Grab your flashlight and get ready to wander into the
darkness with us.
Hannah (01:00):
This is Wicked Wanderings, Hi Courtney, Hi
Hannah, and we have a specialguest Drumroll.
(01:23):
Please, Cousin Mark In theflesh sort of In the virtual
flesh.
Cousin Marc (01:31):
I am always happy to be here hanging out with you,
beautiful ladies.
Hannah (01:35):
Oh shucks.
Courtney (01:36):
Don't give us airs.
He's really laying it on us now, today, guys.
Cousin Marc (01:40):
Sitting here with my cool Wicked Wanderings douche
canoe t-shirt that I have.
Hannah (01:45):
Wicked cozy tees.
I mean, honestly, I just wantto like tear up because, like
Court, I know that you've been awanderer forever and you came
to this podcast willing and ableto do it with me.
But, like from the beginning,like that shirt, I'm just like,
oh my God, that's like thebeginnings of Wicked Wanderings.
And just like, oh God, it'slike the beginnings of Wicked
Wanderings.
(02:05):
And just like, oh, just givesme the tears.
So, cousin, mark, I justappreciate your support to us.
Really, I do, really do.
Cousin Marc (02:12):
Absolutely.
I love it All right.
So I have today a very niceyoung man called Peter.
Hannah (02:22):
Sutcliffe Wait, wait, a very nice young man.
That's usually not how we startany podcast.
Cousin Marc (02:29):
Better known as the Yorkshire Ripper.
Courtney (02:32):
Oh, okay, so nice?
Maybe not so much, but I guess,like Bundy was described as
nice, right?
Oh, don't get Bundy involved.
Mark the record, don't do it.
One minute and 54 seconds inand Courtney brought up Bundy
involved.
Cousin Marc (02:46):
Mark the record, don't do it One minute and 54
seconds in and Courtney broughtup Bundy, not Hannah, oh boy.
So Peter Sutcliffe, he was apiece of work, that one.
He was born in 46.
You know, had two normalparents, you know, as they went
along and he was born premature.
Oh, so he was a small baby whenhe was born, had some, you know
(03:07):
, some of those disabilities ofbeing premature, small.
He had a stutter and thingslike that, which you know made
him a target for bullies inschool.
Going through school most ofthe time he just isolated
himself and he'd stand on theside while all the kids were
playing and whatnot and justkind of be alone or on his own,
(03:30):
but two normal parents, you said.
Well as normal as you can get.
Courtney (03:34):
I mean it was the 40s and 50s, so true, I suppose a
little amount of trauma,naturally, is sprinkled in there
.
Cousin Marc (03:44):
Well, his father didn't beat his mother.
Courtney (03:46):
Okay, yep, there's the trauma.
There's the trauma we'retalking about.
Cousin Marc (03:50):
He didn't beat the kids, it was just mom.
Courtney (03:54):
Okay, I mean not great , but still yeah, Okay.
Cousin Marc (03:57):
Yeah, a little better.
But you know, as a smallerchild and having some
difficulties, you know hismother doted on him.
She was like he's the greatestthing in the world.
You know my baby boy andwhatnot.
As she goes along through lifeshe doesn't have the common
stereotypes that a serial killerwould have Interesting.
We didn't have trouble withwetting the bed or fires or
(04:20):
cruelty to animals.
Courtney (04:22):
Right Kind of all those classic things that we've
heard about so many times whenyou're reading about serial
killers.
Cousin Marc (04:27):
Yeah, he went to college.
Courtney (04:30):
Okay, so he's educated .
Cousin Marc (04:31):
Yeah, and he had a girlfriend from high school and
she also went off to collegeDuring the week.
He didn't get to see her.
He only got to see her on theweekend.
Then there were times whereduring the weekend she wouldn't
come home so he wouldn't be ableto see her.
Well, come to find out she wascheating on him.
He was beside himself.
(04:53):
So he went up there andconfronted her while she was
with the other guy that she waswith.
Nothing ever happened from it,but they kind of worked things
out and stayed together.
Courtney (05:04):
Okay, so they did ultimately end up staying
together.
I felt like I was like here'sthe dark turn.
He's going to say that he, thathe already killed this woman,
or that he killed the other guy.
Okay, you got me on my toes.
Cousin Marc (05:16):
Yeah, so he's getting older.
He takes a job at a graveyard.
Courtney (05:21):
Oh, now it's getting dark, okay.
Cousin Marc (05:26):
So, while he's working at the grave, he just
jumped down into one of thegraves and decided to take a nap
after digging the hole.
Courtney (05:31):
Not something I would do.
I'm sorry, take a nap.
Cousin Marc (05:34):
Take a nap after digging.
He was tired In the grave.
Courtney (05:39):
Without the body, though.
Cousin Marc (05:42):
Yes, without the body.
Courtney (05:43):
I guess it's only a hole, then you know what I'm
saying it's only a hole.
Then you know what I'm sayingit's it's.
It's a hole that will be agrave soon, but it's only a hole
.
Cousin Marc (05:50):
Exactly, I mean.
Hannah (05:51):
I guess I would be tired too.
Cousin Marc (05:55):
Yeah, it's kind of so.
As he's sitting in this hole,he starts hearing voices.
Hannah (06:02):
Okay.
Cousin Marc (06:03):
Imagine that.
Hannah (06:04):
Yep, yep, yep.
Cousin Marc (06:06):
Imagine that you hear voices.
He comes out of it and thegravestone is talking to him.
Oh, that's where the voice iscoming from from one of the
gravestones.
Courtney (06:15):
So the stone itself, not the person.
Cousin Marc (06:17):
It was talking yeah , all right.
Courtney (06:19):
Okay.
Cousin Marc (06:21):
Kind of like the son of Sam David Berkowitz, His
neighbor's dog, he said, wastalking to him.
Courtney (06:26):
I mean, at least a dog is like an actual living being,
though right, I mean like agravestone, is a little bit
different.
Cousin Marc (06:32):
Well see, here's the thing with that.
He was devotely Catholic, yeah,so he says that's got to be God
talking to me.
Courtney (06:41):
Yes, Of course god in the form of gravestone yeah,
that checks out.
Cousin Marc (06:46):
I don't know why you wouldn't think that exactly.
Hannah (06:47):
I have to say I'm sorry, like growing up very religious,
there were so many men, neverwomen, really.
Uh, they were like oh god, talkto me, I'm like.
Well, why you like?
Like?
Courtney (07:01):
why of all the human beings right you you.
Cousin Marc (07:07):
I mean you say that , anna, because he said that God
was talking to him personally,if it wasn't just him personally
then everybody else would hearGod talking to them.
Hannah (07:24):
God was focusing on him.
I just feel like the lastcouple years, the relationship
okay, this might be gettingpersonal, but the relationship I
have with god, right is just it, just it boggles my mind with
the amount of people that are inthe world, right, why them?
Courtney (07:44):
I don't think people are in that position like,
especially if you're laying ingraves to sleep.
I don't think you're in theposition to be like.
You know what this magical manhas chosen me and why I think
we're just really stuck on the.
Hannah (07:56):
He chose me I just I I don't know, like this supposed
really big being right, and ifyou're not gonna believe in the
big bang or whatever, like kudosto you, like whatever you
believe in, why would theychoose you?
Yeah, but also struggle withthat.
Cousin Marc (08:17):
Yeah, I don't know but also why would god let all
these bad things happen?
Hannah (08:23):
yeah, I guess that's where people's different gods
come into play, because we hearthat a lot with different serial
killers or people who areaggressive towards other people,
and I think that's a very goodpoint Because, mark, being a
person that grew up in thechurch, and you might appreciate
this as well why, if you have aGod that is all-knowing,
(08:44):
all-being, why would they allowthis all stuff to happen Like I
get that Encourage?
Courtney (08:48):
it, not even just allow it to happen.
Why would they encourage it?
I get that.
Hannah (08:51):
I get that.
Why would you allow thesepeople to be anyways?
Cousin Marc (08:56):
Well, everyone says that God created man in his own
image.
Okay, man in his own image.
So a psychopath you know aserial killer says well, if he
made us in his own image, hemust be just like me psychotic,
unfeeling.
But you talk to other peopleand they're like oh no, god's
good, god made us perfect Thingslike that.
(09:19):
But it all depends on how thebrain processes all the
information.
Hannah (09:23):
Which raises a lot of questions, right Like it's just.
Cousin Marc (09:26):
Exactly.
Hannah (09:27):
It's interesting?
It certainly is interesting.
Courtney (09:30):
Yeah, sorry we derailed you.
Yes, please keep going.
Cousin Marc (09:32):
No, that's OK.
That's OK because you just mademe remember that before his and
I'm upset that I missed this,but before he got the job as a
gravedigger, he was also in amotorcycle accident and had a
traumatic brain injury.
Courtney (09:48):
And that will really throw a lot of things for a loop
.
A traumatic brain injury reallyputs you through some stuff.
Yes, it does, yes, it does so,then, it's like are you
hallucinating or are you havinga psychotic break?
Or is it the traumatic braininjury?
There's a lot more to playthere.
Hannah (10:04):
And what are the years for this?
Cousin Marc (10:06):
again, I'm sorry he was born in 46, so we're not
know a lot they did not know alot, I really consider true
brain injuries to be thatserious yeah nope, rub some dirt
on it and get back out rightright yeah, so sad.
So he has the motorcycleaccident.
He has his father beating hismother.
(10:28):
He has his girlfriend cheatingon him.
He also has his father figureout that his mother was cheating
on his father.
Courtney (10:36):
Ah, ok, and I'm sure that's a really negative image
towards women for him.
They're all cheaters.
Cousin Marc (10:41):
Well, his father found out where the mother was
meeting her man.
Oh boy, Peter and his fatherwent to the hotel room and
caught them.
Courtney (10:51):
So he brought his son with him to do that.
Cousin Marc (10:53):
They brought him with them and humiliated her in
front of everybody, and he endsup grabbing the purse from her
and pulls out the lingerie thatshe was going to wear while she
was there.
Courtney (11:08):
Oh, yikes, yikes, yikes.
Cousin Marc (11:09):
So this whole thing is that he's now seeing women
as liars.
Courtney (11:14):
Right, exactly.
Cousin Marc (11:16):
After he found that his girlfriend had cheated on
him, he was going to go cheat onher with a prostitute.
Courtney (11:22):
Oh, and here we go, bringing the prostitute.
I feel like serial killers at acertain point are very similar
the lying, and cheatingprostitutes.
Cousin Marc (11:30):
He goes to have sex with her and she just walks in,
strips down and says, all right, let's go, and he's like wait a
minute.
That's not how this is supposedto go.
Hannah (11:38):
It is when you're paying by the hour.
Oh my God.
Cousin Marc (11:46):
The first time with a prostitute and he's going
wait a minute.
I thought there was going to besome.
You know something romantic,you know some foreplay or
something?
Hannah (11:50):
definitely not.
You pay extra for that.
Cousin Marc (11:51):
Yeah, exactly so he's like all right, I can't do
this, you know, let's call itquits.
And he had given her a 10 poundnote which back then at that
time, was like 50 bucks now.
Courtney (12:05):
So he just sent her on her way.
He was like thanks, but nothanks.
Cousin Marc (12:08):
Oh no, he said you were supposed to give me change
when we got here.
You haven't done that becauseit was supposed to be five
dollars.
And she says, well, bring meback to where I was and I'll
give it back to you.
So he drives her back to thegarage where he picked her up
and she walks in and he's outthere in the car for like 10
minutes and she doesn't comeback out.
Naturally, what the hell'sgoing on?
(12:30):
So next thing, you know, thisguy comes out and tells him to
you know, fuck off, she's notdoing anything Right.
So now he's got a bad taste inhis mouth.
Right Again with a prostituteand liars.
Courtney (12:43):
Yeah, that reinforces again women are liars she said
exactly I'm going to get thechange and come back.
And obviously her pimp was likeno, we're not doing that.
Cousin Marc (12:56):
So between then his first murder he had attacked a
few women, but they survivedbecause he didn't actually know
what he was doing yet.
So there were a few attacks,but no one died.
No one could identify him oranything.
Courtney (13:06):
When you say attack, do you mean like physical attack
, or is it like a sexual attackand a physical attack?
Cousin Marc (13:11):
No, just physical.
The police didn't know aboutthe attacks until later because
you know, nobody had comeforward, because it was really
nothing to come forward about,because they didn't know who it
was.
Courtney (13:22):
And I didn't imagine it was going to be sexual in
nature, just because it doesn'tseem like if he's the kind of
guy who couldn't have sex with aprostitute who was standing
right there in front of him,he's probably wouldn't be the
kind of guy who could do it Verygood point For aggression and
things like that.
Yeah.
Hannah (13:36):
But I also think back then, like it was different when
you're reporting these types ofattacks?
Courtney (13:41):
Yes, yeah, especially women who are not believed.
Cousin Marc (13:44):
Right?
Well, especially at that time,and especially being a
prostitute, you know they don'twant to bring attention to
themselves if they don't have toRight.
Hannah (13:54):
If you're going to report a sexual attack, it's
like, well, that's your job,well, but they weren't sexual,
they were just physical attacks.
Courtney (14:01):
But I also feel like at that time women, they were
just physical attacks.
But I also feel like at thattime women were supposed to be
seen, not heard, Objectified.
They were objectified.
Hannah (14:07):
Yeah, absolutely.
Cousin Marc (14:08):
Yeah, but at this time there were a lot of mills
in the area for the industrialage that were shutting down
because the war's over and theydidn't need all those things
anymore.
So people were having troublemaking money because the jobs
were disappearing.
Courtney (14:32):
So that's why a lot of women started to turn to
prostitution, because it was aquick way to make money.
Yeah, work what your mama gaveyou Exactly so.
Cousin Marc (14:39):
I mean we talked about this in the Gary Ridgway
episode where you know motherswould look at their kids and say
, why are you being a prostitute?
You can come work at the diner.
It's like I'm going to makelike half the money at the diner
in three hours as a prostitute.
Hannah (14:55):
Absolutely, 100%.
Agree with that, absolutely Allright.
Cousin Marc (14:58):
So we've established that Peter Sutcliffe
does not like women.
Established that PeterSutcliffe does not like women.
You know, his parents didn'treally do much to dissuade him
from disliking women.
So we now come to October of 75, where he takes his first life.
There's a mother of four namedWilma McCann, and she was only
(15:19):
killed 150 yards from her house.
Yikes, you know, he came upfrom behind her, hit her in the
head with a ball-peen hammerrepeatedly.
Courtney (15:30):
As if more than once was necessary.
Yeah, stabbed her.
Cousin Marc (15:35):
Well, see, this is where the previous attack where
people survived that he startedto realize that he needed to be
more aggressive when he did this.
Courtney (15:47):
So was that a pattern of his Showing up behind
somebody and beating Okay?
Okay, that makes sense.
Cousin Marc (15:51):
And hitting them with a hammer.
Courtney (15:53):
Specifically, he had a lucky hitting hammer.
Cousin Marc (15:57):
So he ended up stabbing her with a screwdriver
After he hit her with the hammer.
Poor woman.
When the police started toinvestigate this, they
associated it with her being aprostitute, because of the area
that they were in, which is ahigh area of prostitution Was
(16:18):
she a prostitute?
Courtney (16:19):
or did they just mistake her for a prostitute?
Cousin Marc (16:22):
No, she was a prostitute.
Okay, all right.
And when the news got a hold ofit, the news started calling
them good time girls.
Oh I hate that Instead ofprostitutes.
Courtney (16:32):
I hate that, that's not a cute way to say prostitute
.
Stop that shit yeah.
Cousin Marc (16:37):
So that was in October of 75.
, january of 76, he ended uptaking out Emily Jackson, who
was a mother of two okay, sowe're seeing mothers.
Courtney (16:50):
We're seeing mothers as a trend so far it is.
Cousin Marc (16:53):
Yeah, he was also staged now mothers and
prostitutes.
It just so happened to be theywere both so with Emily she was
staged, so when whoever foundher, her legs were spread open
and made for a shock value.
For when someone found her, shewas stabbed 56 times with a
(17:15):
screwdriver and also had thecircular wounds on the back of
the head of a ball-peen hammer.
Courtney (17:23):
So the same exact spikes.
Cousin Marc (17:26):
This one was also stepped on, so they were able to
retrieve a footprint from herthigh, which they ended up
determining was a size 7.
Hannah (17:38):
Oh, so he's a small man.
Cousin Marc (17:40):
He's a small man.
Yes, yes, has the small mansyndrome.
Courtney (17:46):
Right, and that kind of narrows it down.
Cousin Marc (17:51):
I'm assuming, as a search too, because you're like
OK, we're looking for somebodywith a somewhat specific size,
Very tiny Seven is actually kindof small for a woman's foot too
.
Courtney (17:57):
Yes, Absolutely.
Cousin Marc (17:59):
Yeah.
So we now move to April of 77,over a year later, and she ends
up killing 28-year-old IreneRichardson.
She was also struck in the headand stabbed repeatedly, so she
has the same MO of killing, andwhat the police determined was
that all three were not sexuallyassaulted.
So that's starting to remindpeople of another famous killer
(18:23):
in England.
You may know him.
Wait, who?
Any guesses?
Hannah (18:28):
I don't know who could it be?
Cousin Marc (18:33):
That would be our good old friend Jack.
Courtney (18:37):
Jack the Ripper.
Cousin Marc (18:39):
And since he was from the Yorkshire County, they
dubbed him the Yorkshire Ripper.
Hannah (18:45):
So, knowing what we know about Jack Ripper now, with who
he is, right They've decidedwho he is, which is kind of sad
about.
Courtney (18:56):
We've talked about that a few times where it's like
lost its luster because of that.
Cousin Marc (18:59):
Which is so sad.
Courtney (19:00):
I have to preface by saying like we are so sorry for
the victim's families becauseobviously, like they all, should
get their justice.
But I do think the lore pieceof it, like it almost seemed
like this person was too big tobe real, like you weren't human
you were something else and Iwas really, I was really hoping
that HH Holmes had something todo with it and whatever.
Cousin Marc (19:23):
It would have been an interesting twist.
Hannah (19:25):
Yes, it really would have.
It really would have.
Knowing who Jack the Ripper issupposedly now.
Does that lose anything for thecase you have for us right now?
Cousin Marc (19:39):
I'm sorry, does it what?
Hannah (19:40):
Lose anything like any luster for what you have for the
case now.
Cousin Marc (19:44):
No, of course not Okay.
Hannah (19:45):
Does it prove anything?
Cousin Marc (19:46):
Because everybody everybody's their own, their own
individual.
Hannah (19:50):
Yeah.
Cousin Marc (19:50):
He's escalated a little bit quicker now and he's
on to June of 77, where heattacks 33 year old Patricia
Atkins.
She was the first one that heactually killed at home In her
home correct.
Yeah, because she was aprostitute and he made it to her
(20:13):
place for their transactionwhen he killed her.
Courtney (20:18):
That's a great way to put that, mark.
I love how you were like forher transaction.
Cousin Marc (20:24):
Well, it's a business.
It is a business.
Courtney (20:27):
Respect the hustle.
Cousin Marc (20:30):
As he's in there and he kills her, he ends up
tracking footprints through thehouse Again.
So now they have footprints totest against other footprints.
So at this time the police arenarrowing it down to the dislike
of prostitutes and the media isputting out there that if
you're not a prostitute thenyou're safe.
Big mistake, because in thesame month he ends up murdering
(20:53):
16-year-old Jane McDonald.
Courtney (20:56):
Who was clearly not a prostitute.
Cousin Marc (20:59):
Clearly not a prostitute.
So was it a mistake?
Or is he just angry at womenand not prostitutes?
Courtney (21:07):
Or maybe it was an opportunity thing.
I know we've definitely talkedabout that for other cases too,
like absolutely Even with theOCCK, like you know, jill
Robinson's case.
I think about that where it waslike was she, why was she shot,
and everybody else wasstrangled.
Was it one of those thingswhere it was like oh shit, she's
not dead?
Is it?
Somebody saw something and theyshouldn't have seen something,
(21:28):
or that urge just got too highand there wasn't another
opportunity.
Cousin Marc (21:31):
So at this point the public's outraged because
the investigation is not goingthe way it should and they
haven't found any suspects yet.
So the head of the policedecide to bring in new
investigators to re-jump theinvestigation.
But at this time, you know,there's no DNA because he hasn't
done anything to leave any DNA.
(21:52):
All there was for them at thistime is to do blood grouping,
which doesn't really narrow downyour search that much.
Courtney (21:59):
Right.
Probably the size seven shoenarrows it down more.
Cousin Marc (22:02):
Yeah, we got that.
So now we're in the July of 77where he attacked Maureen Long,
but she survived.
Courtney (22:11):
Oh, no, not again.
Cousin Marc (22:13):
He's a couple.
There's a couple in his murderspree that end up surviving.
She was hit in the head likethe rest, but apparently she was
able to survive it Shit.
Courtney (22:26):
And that makes me wonder.
The head injuries?
Well, also well, but like ifhe's normally, like the other
women.
He hit in the head and then hestabbed them, so he didn't stab
her.
But for what reason did hereally think that the blow to
the head had done the job?
Did somebody startle him?
Did he not have enough?
Time what it was, he didn'treally want to kill her.
You know I got a lot ofquestions about this.
Cousin Marc (22:47):
That's a good question to have.
I don't remember if they saidanything about him being spooked
at the time, to not finish, butthey did have a witness now
Right and they had an officerthere pose as her boyfriend
chaperone, whatever you want tocall it.
They went back to the club thathe picked her up at to see if
(23:11):
he showed back up, and he neverdid.
Courtney (23:13):
So he's smart.
At least he knew that.
He must have known she survived.
Cousin Marc (23:17):
Yeah, well, she also had some brain damage too
and couldn't remember much.
Courtney (23:22):
From the poor woman hits the head.
I'm sure, yeah, damn it.
Cousin Marc (23:38):
So at this point, after they've regrouped the
investigation, they had anincident room that they had over
270 people working on this case, and then we come to October 77
, where he kills 20-year-oldJean Jordan.
She was found nine days aftershe disappeared.
This one was a little differentfrom the rest of them, though,
because he must have thoughtdifferently after the last one
survived, because this one, herhair was burnt off, her face was
(23:58):
smashed oh God, her breastswere cut off.
Hannah (24:02):
I'm sorry her tits were what Cut off.
Cousin Marc (24:06):
He cut them off.
Courtney (24:07):
So he was really taking his hate out on women,
right?
Hannah (24:12):
do we know if this was post-mortem or not?
Cousin Marc (24:16):
not that I know well, after hitting her in the
head and smashing her face.
Courtney (24:21):
I'm sure the rest of it was just anger, yeah, and
that shows his character too,where it makes me think that he
didn't intend to leave the otherperson alive, and it was like
look at all this anger and rage.
I have pent up about how angryI am that the other one got away
.
Hannah (24:38):
Oh, my God.
Courtney (24:39):
Oh God, Because it's far more violent than the other
ones.
Hannah (24:42):
I mean, the other ones were violent.
The other ones were violent,but that one was fine.
Oh, that's insane.
Cousin Marc (24:47):
Well, that's the thing.
She was found in Manchester,which was a long way from
Yorkshire, but she hid her in ahedge and when she wasn't
discovered, he went back andmoved her.
Courtney (24:58):
He liked the attention .
Cousin Marc (24:59):
Yes.
Courtney (25:00):
Okay, so he's an attention guy.
Cousin Marc (25:02):
That's important to know.
It also looked like he waslooking for something and he
couldn't find it, and Alsolooked like he was looking for
something and he couldn't findit, and then he flashed the body
out of anger.
Courtney (25:12):
So a lot of that was postmortem OK.
So it was unclear if he waslike really upset about the
other person getting away orjust people not catching on and
giving him that like attentionand that credit maybe.
Cousin Marc (25:23):
Well, no, what happened with this was he had
given her a five-pound note.
Okay, okay, and apparently atthis time in England the
companies hand out pay packets,so all the money that's in the
packet has been analyzed and canbe traced, if need be.
Okay, so when he gave her thefive-pound note, he was going to
(25:49):
kill her and take it back.
We couldn't find it, which iswhat got him angry.
Courtney (25:55):
OK yeah, because that could have been tracked.
Cousin Marc (25:58):
Yeah.
Courtney (25:59):
OK, and that leads yeah.
Cousin Marc (26:02):
And that leads them to interviews of the males in
factories where the packet wouldhave been handed out.
And that's one of the things.
As this investigation went on,he was interviewed nine times.
God, that's insane.
And they never figured it out.
So it's very possible thatduring that he was one of the
(26:22):
people that were interviewedthroughout the factories.
Now we come to December of 77.
Here's another one thatsurvived.
That was Marilyn Moore.
She survived the factories.
Now we come to December of 77.
Here's another one thatsurvived.
That was Marilyn Moore.
She survived the attack.
But they did find tire tracksand those tire tracks matched
Irene Richardson's crime scene.
Oh, shit.
(26:43):
And Marilyn Moore was able togive a description.
So now they actually had aphoto to go by from her sitting
down with the artist.
So in February of 78, he endedup killing 18-year-old Helen
Richter.
She was found in a lumberyardby police dogs on a search
because they had gotten rumorsthat there was something out
(27:04):
there.
Gotten rumors that there wassomething out there, and she
again was murdered the same waywith the hammer blows and the
stabbings, ice pick andscrewdrivers and things like
that.
So the police managed to roundup a 30,000 pound reward for any
information leading to thecapture.
They also had so much paperworkin this incident room that they
(27:28):
had to reinforce the structureof the building with concrete to
make sure the floor didn'tcollapse.
Courtney (27:33):
Wow, that's a lot of paperwork.
Cousin Marc (27:35):
That's how they were talking millions of pieces
of paper, and they were gettingphone calls and tips nonstop.
We now move to March of 78,where he has taken 21-year-old
Yvonne Pearson.
So she was hidden a little morethan some of the other ones
were, because a passerby saw ahand sticking out of the garbage
(27:59):
pile that she was underneath.
So he was hiding them, buttrying to hide them so they
could still be found.
Courtney (28:07):
Right, like hiding in plain sight.
Cousin Marc (28:10):
Yeah.
Courtney (28:11):
Yeah.
Cousin Marc (28:12):
Well, that was like .
That was BTK Dennis Rader.
When nobody was reporting onthe murder that he had committed
, he was calling up newsstations and telling them that
they were going to find someonesomewhere.
Courtney (28:26):
Right Wanting that attention, when that attention
is the biggest component Because, if you think about it other
than I mean, some people getsatisfaction out of killing in
general.
I can't imagine it, but it istrue.
Other than the satisfaction ofkilling, what else is this
person getting out of killingthese women other than attention
?
Nothing, yeah, nothing, yeah,yeah, yeah.
Cousin Marc (28:44):
Nothing.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So Hannah will know BTK wasgetting upset because Bundy was
getting all this publicityJealousy.
No one knew anything about him.
So he had written a letter tothe news channel and it said how
many people do I have to killbefore you guys start taking me
seriously?
Courtney (29:03):
Apparently more yeah.
Cousin Marc (29:05):
No kidding.
Hannah (29:08):
Which is just terrible.
Courtney (29:09):
It's terrible.
Cousin Marc (29:10):
Yes, no kidding, which is just terrible.
It's terrible, yes, it is.
So we get to May of 78, wherehe kills 41-year-old Vera
Millward.
She was dragged out into thefield that she was found in
because what happened was hepretended to have car trouble
once he got her in the car, sothey went up to the front and
(29:31):
opened up the hood and, as heasked her to help him look as
she was looking, he hit her inthe head with a hammer.
Hannah (29:38):
That seemed to be like the mo yeah, a lot of these guys
like, yeah, I think I was inthe car and somebody said I'm
having some car trouble.
Courtney (29:46):
Figure it out yourself , buddy, I'm staying in the car.
And somebody said I'm havingsome car trouble.
I'd be like, figure it outyourself, buddy, I'm staying in
the car.
Hannah (29:48):
Or even if I had car trouble, I will figure it out
myself.
I'll just stay locked in thiscar.
I'm good, thank you.
Courtney (29:56):
Well, on that sad note , we're going to have to do a
two-parter for you guys, becauseHannah and I were reckless.
Cousin Mark was on topic.
Rob's gonna kill us, buteverybody should look forward to
a part two.
Cousin Marc (30:12):
Absolutely.
Courtney (30:13):
Sorry, cousin Mark, we can do a pick a card any card.
Pick a card any card.
Hannah (30:39):
Here we go.
I have the queen of hearts andit's theresa corley.
Uh, it's familiar really.
Yeah, on december 8th 1978 a 19year old girl was found
strangled in a ditch off routei-495 in bellingham.
She went missing from franklin.
If you have any information,please call 1-855-MA-SOLVE that
one sounds really familiar thepicture is very familiar.
Courtney (31:00):
Let me see yeah oh yeah, no, the picture is very,
very familiar, right, I'mwondering.
I definitely have read anarticle on her, but there's also
a couple of really big podcastepisodes about her, so that
could have been it too also canwe discuss what happened in?
Hannah (31:20):
what was it waterbury connect it?
Cousin Marc (31:23):
what happened there ?
Hannah (31:24):
there was a person that was held hostage for like 20
years.
Courtney (31:29):
Yikes, when did that come up?
Oh, was that the kid, thestepson?
Hannah (31:34):
Yes, yes and yes.
And he, he had like basicallyno water, no food, he was
malnourished and he set fire tothe house just so he could get
out.
I mean smart.
Cousin Marc (31:45):
Yeah, I remember hearing that.
Hannah (31:47):
Yeah so that yeah, so the stepmom is on trial, but she
got out on bail.
That's like what gets me onbail?
Well, they don't think she's aflight risk.
So Well, I guess the fatherdied a year ago.
So she's like, oh, it was allthe father's fault, but yeah but
like a year ago.
Courtney (32:05):
Why didn't he get let out?
Hannah (32:15):
Mm.
Hmm, oh, it was all thefather's fault, but yeah, but
like a year ago.
Courtney (32:17):
Why?
Hannah (32:17):
didn't he get let out?
Courtney (32:17):
yeah, but yeah he set fire with a piece of paper hand
sanitizer and a lighter.
I just looked it up.
Right, yeah, was it.
Was it waterbury?
Yeah, yep, yep.
She was arrested on wednesdayand charged with first degree
assault, second degreekidnapping, first degree
unlawful restraint, cruelty topersons and first degree
reckless endangerment.
What was?
Hannah (32:30):
disgusting about it is that they he was pulled out of
school when he was 11 and filedon the family and nothing was
done.
Courtney (32:39):
That's what's disgusting, like I do think is
is so like I'm just scrollingthe first article that I found,
obviously, and there's a quotefrom uh, the chief of waterbury
police, saying 30 years in lawenforcement and this is the
worst treatment of humanity thatI have ever witnessed yeah, so,
and they see some things too.
Hannah (32:58):
Yeah, they see things right but, like this family was
filed on and nothing was done,there was locks on the outside
of this door, like if you didany type of investigation.
Courtney (33:12):
Yeah, it's sick.
Cousin Marc (33:13):
Yeah, that's crazy, just as much as anybody.
Courtney (33:16):
the DCF system is broken oh yeah.
It's completely broken and Iknow that a lot of people feel
hindered by the fact that theyget involved, but it's like
their job is to get involved todetermine if there's a threat or
not.
Yeah, they really.
I've heard just so many caseswhere they don't get involved
and there's this bigger thinggoing on.
Cousin Marc (33:35):
It's really troubling yeah.
Courtney (33:38):
Thanks for joining us, cousin Mark.
We always love to have you,especially when we give you no
notice and we just blow up yourphones with a what you do.
I 100% just slid right intoMark's DMs and was like hi,
what's happening?
What you want to?
Cousin Marc (33:51):
do what's up, Marky Mark?
Courtney (33:54):
I called him Marky Mark, all right.
All right, we will see you guysnext time.
Goodbye, hannah, bye.
Hannah (34:04):
Thanks for listening today.
Wicked Wanderings is hosted byme Hannah and co-hosted by me
Courtney, and it's produced byRob Fitzpatrick music by Sasha M
.
If you enjoyed today's episode,don't forget to leave a rating
and review and be sure to followon all socials.
You can find the links down inthe show notes.
If you're looking for somereally cozy t-shirts or hoodies,
head over to the merch store.
(34:25):
Thank you for being a part ofthe Wicked Wanderings community.
We appreciate every one of you.
Stay curious, keep exploringand always remember to keep on
wandering.
Thank you.
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